1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,900 Welcome to Dates of Our Lives, a true crime and awareness podcast. 2 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,600 I'm your host, Kenna. 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,120 In this podcast, I meet with a new guest each episode to discuss the date that changed their 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:12,480 life. 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:18,040 These stories include, but are not limited to, missing persons cases, survivor tales, 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,540 personal tragedies, and more. 7 00:00:20,540 --> 00:00:25,320 This podcast was created nearly a decade after my own personal experience. 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:30,680 In 2015, I lost one of my sisters, Cameron, in a truly horrific way, and I have been searching 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,880 for meaning ever since. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:38,080 I truly believe each person's story is unique and extremely important to share, and I wanted 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,520 to create a safe space to make that possible. 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,160 Please join me in bringing awareness to these events and allowing space for healing, one 13 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,400 episode at a time. 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:53,120 You can listen to Dates of Our Lives anywhere you get your podcasts. 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:01:00,120 Dates of Our Lives is coming soon, and I can't wait to share it with you guys. 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,120 Hello. 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,120 Hello. 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,120 Hi. 19 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,120 Hi. 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,120 Hi. 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,120 Hi. 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,120 Hi. 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,120 Hi. 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,120 Hi. 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,120 Hello. 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,120 Hello. 27 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,120 Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. 28 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,120 I'm Kenna. 29 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,120 And I'm Koelle. 30 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,120 How's it going? 31 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,120 Pretty good. 32 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,120 Pretty good. 33 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,120 Pretty good. 34 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,120 I feel like my throat's already a problem. 35 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:34,120 Yeah. 36 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,120 That vocal arrest for vocal fry. 37 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,120 For vocal fry. 38 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,120 Soup's excited. 39 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:43,120 I am off of work for the next few days, so I get to focus on cleaning, and it's kind 40 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,120 of therapeutic. 41 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Yeah. 42 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,120 That is nice to have that extra time. 43 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,760 I got up for work this morning, and then I was told that there was a change of plans 44 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,120 in my schedule, so I actually only ended up working for like three hours today. 45 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,120 And it was pretty nice too. 46 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,120 Do you see I cleaned the corner of the bathroom? 47 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,120 I did. 48 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,480 Oh my gosh, that's so funny that you say that, because I walked in and I was like, ooh, the 49 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:04,480 floors look nice. 50 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,120 And I remembered that I saw it earlier today that the floor was kind of gross, and I was 51 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,400 like, oh, it's like pleasant surprise that it was clean. 52 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,120 I cleaned the baseboards in the bathroom too. 53 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,120 Just getting like full on Cinderella over here. 54 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,120 Cinderella. 55 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,120 Do the dishes, Cinderella. 56 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Well, I have a mental breakdown today that is actually not even in the DSM. 57 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,120 Really? 58 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,720 But it is a disorder, so we're going to talk about that. 59 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,120 But before we get into that, would you like to give everyone our social media? 60 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,120 Sure. 61 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,120 You can check us out on social media anywhere at Diagnosia Killer, other than ex formerly 62 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,120 known as Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis. 63 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,120 We also have a cache app, PayPal Venmo. 64 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,000 We also got that Patreon going. 65 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,920 We got four tiers. 66 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:57,280 Tier number one is, never remember, tier number one, you get ad free mental breakdown episodes, 67 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:03,400 tiers two, three and four, get ad free every episode, and tiers three and four get that 68 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,120 added bonus episode at the end of every month. 69 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,120 Yeah, definitely. 70 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,400 I think I was mistaken the last time we talked about it. 71 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:11,760 I thought we had like 12 out. 72 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:12,760 We have 15. 73 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,760 Nice. 74 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,600 So, if you're interested in those bonus episodes, if you'd like to join those peeps that have 75 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,640 access to them, go over to patreon.com, slash Diagnosis at Killer, and sign up. 76 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:24,640 It actually really helps us out and it helps us create more content for you guys. 77 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:29,960 Like, share, subscribe, and don't forget to add automatic downloads so that you don't 78 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,280 miss a single one of our episodes. 79 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:33,520 Right, right, right. 80 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,760 And thank you so much to our existing Patreons as well. 81 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,840 We always want to make sure we're thinking them because y'all are the best and I love 82 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,480 all your comments and everything. 83 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,480 Best comments. 84 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:48,040 So, today, we are going to be talking about body integrity dysphoria. 85 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,040 Interesting. 86 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,680 And, as you may know, we wait till the end to record the content warning for each other, 87 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,120 but you guys won't hear anything different, so you are going to hear your content warning 88 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,280 right about now. 89 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:00,280 Content warning. 90 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,160 This episode includes conversation about self-mutilation and self-harm. 91 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,000 If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes. 92 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Remember your mental health is very important and we love you. 93 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,000 We love you. 94 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,000 Bye. 95 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,240 I'm just going to love that for the rest of room. 96 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,200 I know, it's like movie magic. 97 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,240 Okay, let's get into this. 98 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:25,360 Body integrity dysphoria is also referred to as body integrity identity disorder, amputee 99 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,560 identity disorder, or Xenomelia. 100 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,720 Body integrity dysphoria, or BID, is a rare mental disorder that is characterized by a 101 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:42,240 desire to have a sensory or physical disability or feeling discomfort with being able-bodied. 102 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Okay. 103 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,520 It's very different than anything we've really talked about. 104 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:52,800 People essentially think that they are over-compensated with what they have and maybe a piece of 105 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,240 them does not belong to themselves and they don't want it anymore. 106 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,080 It's like the opposite of phantom limb? 107 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,160 I wouldn't say it's the opposite. 108 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,120 I would say it's almost phantom limb when the limb is still attached. 109 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,120 Right. 110 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,120 Yeah. 111 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,120 Well, yeah. 112 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:16,640 You feel that you have, like you said, an overabundance of something that you don't feel is, but 113 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,040 it's the way that they identify. 114 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:27,080 They identify as amputee or they identify as someone who shouldn't have an arm or a leg. 115 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,680 So another thing that we're going to notice about this is that there is little to no research 116 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,680 about this disorder and that being the case, there's a lot of what-ifs and maybes when 117 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,080 it comes to how people think and feel and how people should be treated and things like 118 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,360 that, but we'll get into it. 119 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,920 That's very interesting and I bet there's very few cases as well. 120 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,320 Yeah, of course. 121 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,080 In individuals with BID, there is often a mismatch between the mental body image and 122 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,400 the physical body and this often results in an intense desire for amputation or complete 123 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,760 paralysis of a limb. 124 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,960 This desire for amputation typically focuses on the leg or the desire to become blind or 125 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,880 deaf can also be part of this disorder. 126 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,520 So the reason I say it typically focuses on the leg is because while there are minimal 127 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,680 cases, most of them are about the leg. 128 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,720 But yeah, so it can even go into- 129 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:21,720 Senses. 130 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:26,600 So you're wanting to become blind or feeling like you need to become blind or deaf. 131 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:27,600 Wow. 132 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,200 In even rarer cases, a person will express a sexual arousal connected with the desire 133 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,800 for loss of a limb, movement, or sense. 134 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Okay, Beine. 135 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,280 Yeah, I mean, yeah, a dexter. 136 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:40,800 Oh yeah. 137 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,320 Brian was really into that. 138 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,320 True. 139 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,120 But he was into it from a paraffillic standpoint, like a fetish almost. 140 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,120 This is like a personal, like internal thing for yourself. 141 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,720 I guess it's like your own foot fetish. 142 00:06:53,720 --> 00:07:00,400 While the diagnosis of body integrity dysphoria did not make it into the DSM-5 or the DSM-5 143 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,440 TR, it is mentioned within the newest version relating to body dysmorphic disorder. 144 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,200 So it's like a side note of body dysmorphic disorder. 145 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,200 What do they call that? 146 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:11,200 They call that a- 147 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,040 I don't know, like a subset? 148 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,040 Yeah. 149 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Also, by the way, I ordered the DSM-5 TR today. 150 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,560 The newest one that came out in 2023. 151 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,920 Well, that's a read from it for sure. 152 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:24,920 Yeah. 153 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:31,280 BID was mentioned in the International Classification of Diseases 11 or the ICD, and it is included 154 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,120 under the category of, quote, disorders of bodily distress, of bodily experience, end 155 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,120 quote. 156 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,440 I was going to ask if it was part of the ICD-10, but I guess they have 11. 157 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,400 They do have the 11 though, yeah. 158 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,680 The ICD explains BID as being, quote, characterized by an intense and persistent desire to be 159 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,120 become physically disabled in a significant way, with onset by early adolescents, accompanied 160 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,880 by persistent discomfort or intense feelings of inappropriateness concerning current, non-disabled 161 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,880 body configuration. 162 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:01,880 Good job. 163 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,040 Thank you. 164 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,400 The desire to become physically disabled results in harmful consequences, as manifested 165 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,120 by either the preoccupation with the desire significantly interfering with productivity, 166 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:17,440 with leisure activities, or with social functioning, or by attempts to actually become disabled, 167 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,760 have resulted in the person putting his or her health or life in significant jeopardy. 168 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,000 The disturbance is not better accounted for by another mental, behavioral, or neurodevelopment 169 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:32,520 disorder, by a disease of the nervous system, or by another medical condition, or by malingering, 170 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,040 end quote. 171 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,360 So pretty much what the DSM-5 would say or 5TR would say, but essentially, yeah, just 172 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,200 kind of like dotting all their eyes and crossing their T's like it's not caused by anything 173 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,160 else, like this is its own thing. 174 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Right. 175 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:52,160 So, like stated, this type of disorder typically begins showing signs in early adolescents, 176 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,560 and actually said anywhere from the ages of 5 to 8, just really early. 177 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:01,640 You start identifying being, having essentially a disability. 178 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:02,640 Right. 179 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,960 And unfortunately, sometimes this can result in harmful consequences, because you are so 180 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,640 young when you experience it, you might try to take matters into your own hands, so to 181 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:11,640 speak. 182 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,880 Like harm yourself or yeah. 183 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:21,160 So a term known as apatamnophilia was first described in a 1977 article by psychologists 184 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,920 Greg Firth and John Money as being primarily sexually oriented. 185 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,960 This word apatamnophilia was the previously known term for BID. 186 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,960 Okay. 187 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:32,960 It's just no longer used. 188 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,640 So, anophilia being apocalyptic. 189 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:42,160 In 1986, John Money would further describe a similar condition he called octo-mophilia, 190 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,880 which is the sexual arousal in response to a partner's amputation. 191 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,160 Could you imagine growing up and your name was John Money? 192 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:51,160 Yeah. 193 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,160 What a John Money. 194 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,160 It's because of John Money in the house. 195 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:55,560 Oh, I'd call him Jay Money for sure. 196 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:56,560 Jay Money. 197 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:57,560 Yeah. 198 00:09:57,560 --> 00:09:58,560 Jay Money. 199 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,680 The condition would receive public attention in the late 1990s after a Scottish surgeon 200 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:07,520 called Robert Smith amputated limbs of two otherwise healthy people who were desperate 201 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,520 to have them done. 202 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:09,560 This was where? 203 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:10,560 This was in Scotland. 204 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,360 Well, I don't know if it was in Scotland, but it was a Scottish surgeon. 205 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,520 I mean, in the late 90s. 206 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:15,520 The checks. 207 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,160 That, yeah, they said, I don't want these limbs, but they essentially do like a doctor-assisted 208 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,160 amputation. 209 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,160 Yeah. 210 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,160 But they were otherwise perfectly healthy. 211 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,800 I feel like I've heard, either I've heard a case that's similar to that where somebody's 212 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:34,280 like, yeah, just cut off my finger or my ear or essentially they were an otherwise healthy, 213 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,920 perfectly healthy individual like you have said. 214 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,600 That's my third time saying that. 215 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,120 But yeah, it was either that or it was American Horror Story, I can't remember. 216 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,400 It was Grey's Anatomy as well. 217 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,400 They have like three cases where like one of the times this hockey player gets like his 218 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,720 finger broken or it's like rugby or something and he has to play. 219 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,000 And so he's like, can you just cut it off? 220 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,640 Like I don't want to wait for it to heal. 221 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:58,640 Just cut it off. 222 00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Like I just amputated it. 223 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:00,640 And they're like, no, you can't do that. 224 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,200 And then he cuts it off himself or he tries to. 225 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,960 And then there's this other one that is truly like this where this guy comes in and he's 226 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,920 like, hey, yeah, my foot, like my left foot, it's just, it's not mine. 227 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:12,920 And they're like, what? 228 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:13,920 He's like, it's just not mine. 229 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Like it needs to go. 230 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,560 Like he's like shaking it, like hitting it on the floor and stuff. 231 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,920 He's like, yeah, it's just not mine. 232 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:19,920 Could you just remove it? 233 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,880 And they're like, sir, we can't remove like a perfectly healthy limb. 234 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,400 Like there's nothing wrong with you physically. 235 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,400 He's like, just donate it. 236 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,400 Yeah, but it's not mine. 237 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,400 Yeah, seriously. 238 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,720 And he ends up grabbing a saw from somewhere and starting to cut his own leg off. 239 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:32,720 Like it's pretty impressive. 240 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,720 I can't remember that. 241 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:34,720 Is that like in the first intro? 242 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,720 And then it's like, maybe. 243 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:37,720 Yeah, yeah. 244 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,760 It's the beginning of the like the first couple of seasons for sure. 245 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:49,120 So back to history of BID in 2004, a man named Michael first would publish the first clinical 246 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,760 research in which he surveyed 52 people with BID. 247 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,760 These names are just great. 248 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,760 I know they are. 249 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,760 They're great. 250 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,800 Out of these 52, a quarter of these people had undergone amputation for this disorder. 251 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,440 Based on this survey, Michael would coin the term body integrity identity disorder to express 252 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:12,000 what he saw as more of an identity disorder than a paraffilia, just like you were saying. 253 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,120 Yeah. 254 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Whether it's your favorite browser or by app, listening to audiobooks with audiobooks 255 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,600 now makes it easier and more affordable to enjoy your favorite books. 256 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:30,040 Audiobooks Now subscribers receive their club price plan and includes other amazing deals. 257 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,920 Check the link in the show notes for an exclusive offer today. 258 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:41,240 Get audiobooks you love for less with audiobooks now. 259 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,160 After this discovery, minimal research was done to fully understand where the disorder 260 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,280 comes from and there are still questions surrounding it today. 261 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,840 Due to the fact that it's so rare, BID is a very misunderstood disorder and because 262 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,480 of this, it can be extremely difficult to diagnose and to treat. 263 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:03,240 Furthermore, there are still differing opinions and thoughts about what causes it. 264 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,280 Some people who have seldom studied the disorder suggest that BID can be linked to early childhood 265 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,760 trauma, obsessive compulsive tendencies, or over-identification with amputees, which 266 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,080 I think is interesting. 267 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,960 It's like essentially what they're trying to say is, if you have a lot of amputees in 268 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,800 your life from a young age, you may be inclined to try to become part of that group. 269 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,680 But I don't think that makes sense. 270 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:29,480 Like if your mom's blind, you wish you were blind or something. 271 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Yeah, or something. 272 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,400 But childhood trauma, we can always explain that. 273 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,040 That's always an explanation. 274 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,040 And then obsessive compulsive tendencies also make sense to me because they become obsessed 275 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,000 with the fact that that's not something they want on their body. 276 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,240 Do you think it's a reincarnation thing where somebody is a war-torn soldier and they're 277 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,920 reincarnated and they believe that they don't deserve all these limbs? 278 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:50,920 I don't know. 279 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,880 It's like reincarnation, limb guilt? 280 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:54,880 Maybe. 281 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,560 However, while some people may not fully agree with these theories, psychologists and neurologists 282 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:04,400 tend to agree that BID may be caused by the brain not mapping the body correctly. 283 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,360 Which makes a little more sense to me. 284 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,160 If this is the case, rather than being a mental disturbance, BID could very likely be a neurological 285 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,240 disorder that occurs in childhood. 286 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,200 So the brain will begin mapping the body when the person is first born, but it will continue 287 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,120 to do so while into the person's childhood, when people with BID typically begin reporting 288 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:25,920 their discomfort with their bodies. 289 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:26,920 That makes sense. 290 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,000 Because babies go through stages where they recognize that their hands are theirs, their 291 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,000 feet are theirs. 292 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Holy shit, I got two of these. 293 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:40,200 And so when kids start to begin to walk and then eventually run, that is part of that 294 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,360 development as well. 295 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,880 Like you said, brain mapping those motor skills and recognizing those motor skills, how fast 296 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,440 you can run, when to stop, when to keep going, when to pivot, all that. 297 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:57,000 And then also when the external trauma enters the environment that you're in, that brain 298 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,640 mapping can be disrupted. 299 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,840 And that would make sense to me. 300 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:06,480 And then also in the same vein, what if there's a physical thing that happens with the development 301 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,040 of the frontal lobe or did this child accidentally get hit on the head? 302 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,360 Things like that where it's kind of disrupted, like you said. 303 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,880 But it's more of a neurological or medical thing than it is a psychological thing. 304 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,680 And that's where the disagreement is. 305 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,960 Again, there is so little to go off of when it comes to BID, and much more extensive research 306 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,160 needs to be done to fully understand the disorder. 307 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,040 When someone is experiencing symptoms of BID, they may have strong emotional disturbances 308 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,160 due to a healthy limb or other part of their body they simply do not connect with. 309 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,960 When it comes to this desire to get rid of a particular part of the body, it is not 310 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,760 simply just the desire of wanting the limb gone, but the all over consuming urge to actually 311 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,240 take the steps to get rid of the body part. 312 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,240 This becomes an obsessive need in some cases, and people will and often do go to great lengths 313 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,760 to make this happen. 314 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,720 If a person who is struggling with BID does not seek professional help, they will often 315 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,920 attempt to do this amputation or removal themselves, and this can cause major trauma, infection, 316 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,400 and more. 317 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,560 Furthermore, these obsessive thoughts about removing a part of their body can really affect 318 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,760 someone's personal, professional, and social lives as well. 319 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,920 Obviously, if you're experiencing this obsessive thought, you might not want to tell someone 320 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,560 else about it, because in their mind it's like, how do I say that to someone else? 321 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:32,080 I'm kind of thinking as well as you're explaining it, just people that suffer from body dysmorphia 322 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,240 as well, and how this must be linked in some way. 323 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,760 Yeah, and I think that's why it falls under the whole body integrity disorders category 324 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,240 in the DSM. 325 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,600 The fact that BID is extremely hard to diagnose is another potential dangerous side effect 326 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,120 of the disorder. 327 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,480 Typically, when or if a person decides to seek out help for these feelings, they will 328 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,960 be referred to a neurologist in order to undergo a brain scan. 329 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,640 Doctors will first look for any type of brain tumor that may be causing the interference 330 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,240 with the body. 331 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,720 This can be extremely expensive, and some people will not want to go through the trouble 332 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,760 for a disorder that may make them feel like they can't talk about it in the first place. 333 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,080 When a person has BID, they may have several different symptoms that pile on the desire 334 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,720 to lose a limb or body part. 335 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,880 They may feel a sense of overcompletion, exhaustion from trying to hide their feelings 336 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,400 from others, obsessive thoughts about their bodies, extreme stress or anxiety about how 337 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,000 they present themselves to the world, and depression due to the fact that they can't 338 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,920 be their true self. 339 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,280 Many people who seek treatment for the symptoms of BID will not receive an accurate diagnosis, 340 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,040 and this can even further encourage them to attempt self-mutilation. 341 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:47,960 However, most of the time, the person experiencing BID will not think of this as self-harm, and 342 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,680 rather what they have to do. 343 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,000 Either way, attempting self-mutilation can lead to things like uncontrollable bleeding, 344 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:01,000 infection, nerve damage, severe pain, and or phantom limb pain. 345 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,560 On top of this, it is extremely dangerous to attempt self-mutilation, and it can be 346 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,960 life-threatening. 347 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Although it is likely to get misdiagnosed when seeking help from BID, that should not 348 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,080 discourage people from speaking with a professional. 349 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,120 The best thing to do is to educate oneself about their symptoms and speak with a psychology 350 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,120 professional to get assistance. 351 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:26,080 Once somebody becomes diagnosed with BID, treatment will need to begin immediately. 352 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,400 Although it is also a difficult disorder to treat, BID does have a few treatment options 353 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,880 that have been utilized in the past. 354 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,560 These include cognitive behavioral therapy and medications to treat anxiety and nor depression. 355 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,120 On top of these, other types of treatment have been utilized to treat BID, such as having 356 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:48,480 the client wear a prosthetic or even using a wheelchair or crutches, and also using virtual 357 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,840 reality to simulate living without parts of your body. 358 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,600 That makes me think of VR for agoraphobia. 359 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,120 If you're afraid to go outside, you do like Sheila and Shameless when she goes to the grocery 360 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,240 store VR because it's getting over her fear. 361 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,240 I've never seen Shameless. 362 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,240 Oh, well, she does. 363 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,480 But when we got back from Manhattan and we didn't see the Twin Tower Memorial, what 364 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:11,480 do you call that? 365 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,480 What's it called? 366 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Ground Zero. 367 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,480 Yeah, Ground Zero. 368 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,280 When we got back home, I did the VR of Ground Zero. 369 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:18,280 Oh, did you? 370 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,800 Because I was like, and there's just people walking around and like, yeah, but it really 371 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,960 felt like you were there. 372 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:29,000 Right, and VR can definitely make you so enveloped in that and it can feel so real that it might 373 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:36,160 be a good treatment, almost like your exposure therapy almost, but the reverse. 374 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,520 I wonder if that does more, I don't know. 375 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:44,760 I mean, I'm sure it does good for overall serotonin and stuff like that, but when you 376 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,320 come back to reality, is it just going to exasperate? 377 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,560 Yeah, it's a bleak. 378 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:49,560 I know. 379 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:50,560 I'm not sure. 380 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,400 That's why I said these had been utilized, but these are just things that have been tried. 381 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:55,960 Fair, yeah. 382 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,240 While treatment is not known to get rid of the desire to relieve oneself of a body part, 383 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,600 it can reduce the amount of stress one feels surrounding the feelings. 384 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,360 There are some people who believe that the successful removal of the body part that is 385 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:13,640 causing the pain may be a way to treat BID, but this has not been proven. 386 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,640 In fact, there is research to suggest that the removal may increase the amount of stress 387 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:23,240 and anxiety due to the challenges that come with it and may lead to regretful feelings. 388 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:31,480 This is kind of a weird, I don't think it's a far-fetched thought, but I just feel like 389 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,760 do you think in certain cases if people were allowed to, let's say, amputate a foot or 390 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,560 an arm or a hand that it would actually be life-saving? 391 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:46,000 I can see where that would be something that could be seen as a benefit, especially in 392 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,960 this mindset of I need to do this to feel better. 393 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,920 But as far as research goes with this specific disorder, I'm just not sure, just because 394 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,960 again it's so, there's so little that has been studied about it. 395 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,880 I couldn't tell you either way if it would really truly help or if it would make things 396 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:04,880 worse. 397 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,120 Because I was also going to say that there's also the risk of, let's say someone does go 398 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:15,760 and they do a successful treatment or amputation with a professional that could also potentially 399 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,440 increase the desire to now want to do that further. 400 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,520 And then it could lead into another negative. 401 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Yeah, I see what you're saying. 402 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,560 I think that, and of course not to compare apples and oranges here, but if you don't 403 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,440 like your nose, you get a nose job. 404 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:40,200 With trans individuals, there's this body dysmorphia and nothing will make that go away 405 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:46,840 until they transition and feel that that's a successful transition. 406 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:56,480 So I'm wondering in this case, this is part of what they're saying is an identity thing, 407 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,200 then it's like, do you amputate your foot? 408 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,000 But I think that you would go into a doctor and a doctor would look at you funny. 409 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,000 Yeah, right, exactly. 410 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,800 I mean, it's, I don't know. 411 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,040 And again, that's why it's so important to have this education and to understand what 412 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,240 this disorder is so that people can now start to seek treatment so that those people can 413 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,400 be the ones that are studied and we can find things out like this. 414 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,560 Because we've seen, like I was just about to say next, not many people will come forward 415 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,560 to seek help with this disorder. 416 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,280 It's not really clear how prevalent it is. 417 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,520 Like they don't tell us that there's none of number because there could be many people 418 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,800 out there that are experiencing this and it's just considered rare because it doesn't get 419 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:36,800 talked about. 420 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,600 I mean, there's definitely things all over the world in different cultures, body modifications 421 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,400 and such. 422 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:52,560 And again, not to compare an amputee situation like that, but I mean, it's part of autonomy. 423 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,560 Right. 424 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,080 Yeah, it's very wild. 425 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,440 And honestly, it's one of those things too where I was like, I wanted to bring this and 426 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,360 it's been on my list for a while, but there's just not a lot of information about it. 427 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:08,040 So I'm relaying everything that I can about it and I know, but it's important that people 428 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,280 are aware of things like this so that maybe, hey, maybe someone listens to this and they 429 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,840 go, oh my gosh, that's actually exactly how I feel and I didn't even think about it. 430 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,440 I'm going to go talk to someone so that I can get that professional help. 431 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,440 For sure. 432 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,160 We definitely don't want to be like, oh, that's weird, bro. 433 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,520 It's just that it's fascinating. 434 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,520 It is. 435 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,120 And it's again, it's very rare. 436 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:30,600 But yeah, that's pretty much all I have. 437 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,800 I just wanted to add if you or somebody, you know, are having signs or symptoms of BID, 438 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,720 it is important to understand that you're not alone. 439 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,760 Your thoughts and feelings are real and matter and there is always someone out there that 440 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,400 is willing to listen. 441 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,880 There are ways to find relief that do not include self-mutilation or amputation. 442 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,360 And please speak to your healthcare provider or psychology professional. 443 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:55,000 If you're contemplating self-mutilation, always dial 911 or you can reach the national 444 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,320 suicide hotline at 988-247. 445 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,320 Absolutely. 446 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,360 No matter what, your safety is important. 447 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:04,880 This might be something that you're experiencing and you don't know how to handle it and you 448 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,000 might feel like you are the quote unquote crazy person. 449 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,040 But there's a way to go about these things. 450 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,440 There's a way to handle these things and what we don't want is for people to hurt themselves. 451 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,440 Absolutely not. 452 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,240 So yeah, definitely always talk to a professional in instances like this and remember that you're 453 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,240 not alone. 454 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,440 There's plenty of resources as well online that are available. 455 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,160 But yeah, that's my mental breakdown. 456 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,040 Very interesting, very interesting stuff. 457 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,040 Thank you. 458 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,440 I hope you guys enjoyed this one and I think that's all we have. 459 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,440 Yeah. 460 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,440 I'll see you on Thursday for another case. 461 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,440 And we all love you. 462 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,440 Bye. 463 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:49,680 Loving a pet is easy. 464 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,640 Losing a pet is hard. 465 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:57,080 Perfect Memorials has been chosen by families since 2001 for their unique memorial products. 466 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,240 Choosing a cremation urn or other product from Perfect Memorials allows many special ways 467 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,840 to memorialize your loved one. 468 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,160 Keep your furry friend in your memory forever with unique, handcrafted, and personalized 469 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,320 products for everyone. 470 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:36,360 Click the link in our show notes for an exclusive offer with Perfect Memorials today.