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Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Quelle. And I'm Kenna.

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How's it going?

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It's going. It's been a good week actually. I've been changing a couple things about my lifestyle and I actually feel a lot better.

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Oh that's good.

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Yeah.

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I'm glad.

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Cutting out on some of the bad things that I was doing. Bad things. But you know.

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That anxiety is a little better.

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Oh yeah. I actually haven't had any in the last probably four or five days.

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Yeah.

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Which is like incredible.

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Right.

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The little things you change and then everything fixes itself.

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That's great.

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I've been okay. I had two days off of work in a row.

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Nice.

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Which is nice. Thanks to my co-worker because she's lovely. And I'm excited to get back to work.

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I feel like the first day was just kind of, I wouldn't say lazy. I think I was just really taking my time doing things yesterday.

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So I didn't really feel like I accomplished a lot.

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Which is like poison for people like you and me.

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Yeah.

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So today I decided to get up a little earlier and maybe not drive all around the city and just quickly get some lunch and then set up my computer.

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Yeah. We had our sister telepathy thing today where I came home.

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I had gone to Sprouts and then I went to H-E-B which is our local grocery store.

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And then I came home and on the counter there was a Sprouts receipt and then an H-E-B receipt.

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I was like did you go to Sprouts at an H-E-B?

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You were like yes.

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I was like I've never been to Sprouts ever until today.

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Yeah.

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I mean that's so funny I happened to go to both.

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It's alright. They do like, they have this vegan queso by Chow that's really good and I don't eat cheese.

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So I really miss queso sometimes.

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Yeah.

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It's that and soy. It can't do soy either.

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So a lot of vegan stuff is soy.

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Yeah.

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No tofu. Oh my gosh.

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And then, so yeah, it's coconut oil.

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So I can eat a little bit of it.

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Yeah. I went because they are the only place in town that has Irish Soda Bread and that is the only bread that's not made with yeast and I can't eat yeast.

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So I'm gonna try it out but it's only made with raisins and it has like sugar crystals all over it.

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So it's like a sweet bread.

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Maybe I can make like a PB and J out of it.

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Yeah.

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That makes you yummy.

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That's peanut butter and jelly for anyone not in America.

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I forget that's an American thing.

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That is an American thing.

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And then those like UK tries or British tries, you know, food but yeah, apparently peanut butter and jelly isn't a thing.

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Nope, not a thing.

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Well, I'm gonna try it out with that bread and I'll let you know how it is. Stay tuned.

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Everybody has to try peanut butter and honey. Texas honey is so good.

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I don't like honey but I can understand the like of that.

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I usually don't use honey.

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Maybe in some tea every once in a while when I have tea but...

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You know that honey is the only food that does not perish ever?

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No, I didn't know that.

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Yep.

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The more you know.

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It's not vegan because it's made with bees then.

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With bees.

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It's made with bees.

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Just mashed up bees.

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I'm looking forward to hearing your case.

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Sure. Would you like to give everyone our handles?

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Sure, absolutely.

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You can follow us anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer besides Twitter or X which is at Killer Diagnosis.

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We do have an email set up.

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Go ahead and send us an email if you have a case suggestion or you just want to say hi.

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That is Diagnosing a Killer at gmail.com.

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We also have a Venmo, PayPal, and Cash App if you'd like to support us monetarily.

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On top of that, we have a Patreon.

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That is patreon.com.

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There are four tiers in that Patreon.

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Members in tier 1 will get ad-free mental breakdowns every week.

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Members in tiers 2, 3, and 4 will get ad-free every episode that we post.

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Members in tiers 3 and 4 will get an additional bonus episode at the end of each month.

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That is a particularly gruesome case.

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No content warning, no really editing.

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We just kind of bring it to you. No banter or anything like that.

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So if you'd like to join our Patreon members in tiers 3 and 4,

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I think there's about 12 of those bonus episodes out now

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and they're getting another one in the next couple of days after this episode.

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Yes.

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Alright, that's it.

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You ready?

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Yes.

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Today we're going to be talking about Rodney Alcala, a.k.a. the dating game killer.

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Oh, yes.

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Not yes. Every time I say that I feel bad, I'm immediately like,

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Yeah, murder!

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Oh, God.

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Yes, I have heard of this and I'm interested to hear the full story

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because I know that there's some speculations here.

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Okay.

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Just a reminder to our listeners that we are essentially reserving our content warnings

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for the end of our episodes for each other

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so that we are uber-surprised while we're listening to the story.

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So you're going to hear your content warning right now.

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Content warning, this episode contains topics of physical assault, sexual assault,

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and the murder of women and children.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember that you are mental health comes first and we love you.

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Love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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I love that you do that now.

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Yeah.

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We should keep that.

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Because the last time we did a case that happened to you,

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you were like right about now.

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And it was like content warning.

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And so we just plugged.

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We record the content warning after the episode.

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So yeah, because everything's already been revealed.

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But then we take that and then we plug it into that little now.

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It's fun because I'm not expecting anything at this point, you know, like expecting anything.

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Right.

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And if you say something specific in the content warning, it's like,

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okay, when's that going to happen?

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When's that going to happen?

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And then it were if I'm like, oh, someone's going to get, this is going to happen.

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Oh, well, she didn't say it in the content warning.

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So, you know, it's kind of easier to decipher.

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So it's been working out.

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Rodrigo, I guess it's Yakes.

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Alcala Bucar was born August 23, 1943 in San Antonio, Texas.

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Oh, shit.

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To parents Raul Alcala Bacur, I guess it's Bacur, Bacua.

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I don't know if it's French.

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It's probably not.

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And Anna Maria Gutierrez.

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Oh, we know Gutierrez.

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We do.

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Rodney was one of four kids, all of whom were born here in the United States.

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Raul was the eldest, which is RAOU.

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Raul.

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Raul.

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It's like Raul without the L.

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Yeah, I thought you said Raul incorrectly, but I wasn't going to say anything.

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I guess it's an homage to the dad.

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Then there was Christine Rodney and then little Marie, which is an homage to the mom.

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When Rodney was just five years old, he began to attend St. Joseph's Catholic School,

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which was an all boys school here in town.

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But it was actually, it's shut down since 2006.

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I googled it because I was like, I want to go see.

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Rodney had only spent a year here before he would begin to attend Mount Sacred Heart,

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which was originally a military boys boarding school.

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So it is still around today.

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The sound of familiar.

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What was it?

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Mount Sacred Heart.

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Rodney would attend school in the States before his family received news that his grandmother

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in Mexico had become very ill.

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The family quickly dropped everything and what was initially a visit to Mexico actually

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turned into the family moving to Mexico permanently.

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While Rodney was living in Mexico, he would attend his first coed school.

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Eventually Rodney's grandmother would pass away and within three years of the family living in Mexico,

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Rodney's father Raul would actually leave the family in Mexico while he moved back to the United States.

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And Rodney would actually never see his father after this.

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Oh my God, do you know why he left?

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I don't.

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It could be one of, I mean, I'm thinking one of two things.

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Like he left to find a better life and maybe bring his family over one day or he left because he was like,

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fuck this, like I'm out.

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Or in a foreign state.

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Yeah, I mean, found interest in someone else.

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Who knows.

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Anna Maria would be alone with the four children and in a pursuit for a better life would move Rodney

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and his siblings up to California.

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The family was residing in Los Angeles by the time that Rodney was 12

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and he and his siblings were once again put into another school this time at St. Alphonsus Catholic School.

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And how old is he at this point?

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He's 12.

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God, that's gonna be hard changing that school's that many times that young.

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Yeah, he's been to at least three or four that we know of so far.

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Rodney would finish out his middle school years at this school, but by the time that Rodney would then be age of entering high school,

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he would then be forced to attend yet another private Catholic school.

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So a lot of like non permanency happening here.

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Yeah.

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Regardless of all the family bouncing around, Rodney would maintain his grades being called an exceptional student and joining the track and cross country team,

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which is just jogging y'all if y'all don't have cross country.

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I don't even know the origin of that.

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What do you run cross country?

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What do you force, Gump?

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It's just jogging.

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It's just jogging.

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For a long time.

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For a long time.

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Beginning to find himself, Rodney decided that he no longer wanted the label of graduating from a religious school and he began to attend public school

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shortly before his graduation.

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Wow.

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He would graduate from Montabello High School in 1960.

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After graduation, Rodney is at his sights on the military.

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He enlisted in the army and opted to become a desk clerk rather than pursue any type of combat position.

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Rodney accepted a position in North Carolina at Fort Bragg over 3,000 miles away from his mother's home in California.

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It's like literally across the country.

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Like the opposite.

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Directly across the country.

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That might be on purpose.

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However, right away Rodney's superiors noticed that his holier than now attitude was kind of, it was very noticeable.

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He was often described as condescending, manipulative, insubordinate, and even vindictive.

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Ooh.

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Just on a good word to be discussed.

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No.

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You just got here.

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Can you chill out?

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Rodney was also noticed displaying misogynistic behaviors often belittling female soldiers on base for not being on par with their male counterparts.

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He was even accused of assaulting a few women during his time in the army.

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By the time Rodney was 20, his father had passed away.

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Rodney would be granted furlough to attend his father's funeral in California, which was noted as being exceptionally difficult for Rodney at the time.

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That makes me think that dad like maybe was with another person when he left or something.

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Like clearly dad wasn't a good role model, right?

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Yeah.

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And so he comes up with this mindset of like, I don't have to treat women good, like my dad didn't, why should I?

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Yeah.

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And although I didn't see any reports of any physical abuse in the family, maybe, who knows, that's something given what happens later.

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I would say that it's something that he was probably exposed to at a young age.

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And you just never know.

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Like a lot of these cases we do see people talk about it because it's important to the story, but some cases like this, especially him moving out of the country,

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there might have just been not a lot of information that was passed on from his childhood.

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And you just never know.

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Anna Maria, the wife, the mother, might not have said anything if there was physical abuse inside the house.

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Right.

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If he's the breadwinner, the provider, and he's the one that's choosing to move the entire family to Mexico, he's clearly the head of the household.

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Rodney would return to work, but his attitude only worsened after the death of his father.

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In 1964, Anna Marie, Rodney's mother, would receive an unexpected knock at her door.

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Rodney was on the doorstep.

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When Rodney's mother asked why he was in town so unexpectedly, Rodney admitted to his mother that he had had a mental breakdown on base,

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walked off base, and then hitch-typed the 3,000 miles to her home in California.

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There's no fucking way.

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He's like three weeks ago.

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It's like it would not take forever to get there.

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Whoa.

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You're fair.

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And fair to get there.

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I don't care who you are.

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Voice cracks are always funny.

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Always funny.

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Okay.

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I agree with you.

242
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000
I don't know when the mental breakdown happened.

243
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:52,000
I don't know how long or how real his story is, but the fact of the matter is that Rodney at this point was declared officially a wall or absent without leave.

244
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,000
So he did not have permission to leave his duties at all.

245
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
Wow.

246
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:06,000
Rodney would eventually contact his superiors, who then encouraged him to come back without penalty, as long as he would be evaluated by military psychiatrists.

247
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,000
They're doing their job.

248
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,000
Yeah, absolutely.

249
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:15,000
After Rodney was evaluated, he was then diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder Chronic Severe Type.

250
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,000
Wow.

251
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,000
What's your opinion on that?

252
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:25,000
I don't mean this in a bad way at all, but that's an aggressive diagnosis considering we don't really know much about his childhood.

253
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,000
So that makes me think it's a lot of nature there.

254
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,000
Yeah.

255
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000
Something's going on with my voice.

256
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000
Yeah.

257
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,000
But I don't know.

258
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,000
I mean, these people are professionals, right?

259
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:42,000
They obviously know what they see, and it makes a little bit of sense with his arrogant attitude, I guess.

260
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000
But that kind of comes off narcissistic to me, not necessarily antisocial.

261
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,000
Well, I wonder the whole A-ball thing.

262
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000
Oh, I'm just going to leave this now. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm going to go this way.

263
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000
Like I don't care about that?

264
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000
Yeah.

265
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,000
Like super apathetic.

266
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,000
Yeah.

267
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,000
Super apathetic.

268
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,000
Yeah, like super apathetic.

269
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000
I don't care about anybody.

270
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,000
I don't care how my actions affect anybody.

271
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,000
Maybe that's where it kind of sounds like narcissism, but it's not.

272
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000
Yeah.

273
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,000
Psychiatrists also said that Rodney's IQ at the time was 135.

274
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,000
Wow.

275
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,000
Pretty smart.

276
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,000
Pretty smart.

277
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:21,000
Once Rodney was diagnosed, he was then medically discharged from his duties and then returned home to California.

278
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:30,000
He was 21 at this point, and once home, he said that he began to feel more self-assured, and he felt like his mental health was regulating.

279
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:39,000
And he even opted to further his education, excuse me, by enrolling at the University of California of Los Angeles, or UCLA.

280
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000
Going back to the diagnosis, it does make, you said 21.

281
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,000
That's right about the age as well, so that makes sense that he would be diagnosed at that point.

282
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,000
Right.

283
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,000
And so you said that he was required to be seen by psychiatrists, right?

284
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,000
Like military psychiatrists.

285
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000
Yeah.

286
00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:00,000
So I think when he had his mental break, I think it was when he was 20.

287
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,000
1960 foe.

288
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000
1943.

289
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,000
Yeah.

290
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,000
Yeah.

291
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000
He was 2021.

292
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000
Yeah.

293
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
That makes sense.

294
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,000
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296
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298
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299
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:49,000
On September 2, 1964, eight-year-old Tally Shapiro was walking to school when a man on a vehicle came up beside her.

300
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,000
He offered the young girl to give her a ride to school, but Tally refused.

301
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,000
The man then told Tally that he knew her parents and that they needed her to be home.

302
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000
Reluctantly, Tally would climb into the man's vehicle.

303
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:13,000
The two would then drive off, but not after a witness driving behind the suspected abduction vehicle overheard and saw the entire conversation.

304
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000
Wow.

305
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:21,000
Feeling that something was off about the situation, the witness decided to follow the vehicle, where it eventually came to a rest at a residence.

306
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:30,000
When questioned by Tally about where they were going, the man said that he had to quickly stop at his place to show the girls some pictures he took.

307
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000
Okay, what?

308
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
Yeah.

309
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,000
That's not even a good excuse.

310
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:42,000
Yeah, he essentially, well, I think it's more because she's already in the vehicle and he's not going to drive her to school now, so he's going to drive her to his place.

311
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Gross.

312
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000
Yeah, so.

313
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,000
The man would then coax Tally into his residence, shutting the door behind them.

314
00:16:50,000 --> 00:17:02,000
The witness who had followed the vehicle found a phone and called police, giving a description of what they saw, what the child looked like, the description of the suspected abductor, and the address of where they might be found.

315
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,000
Wow.

316
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,000
Like he was like.

317
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Good on you.

318
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,000
Yeah, like I'm not going to, yeah.

319
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,000
In just in case.

320
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,000
Yeah.

321
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,000
Brother saved them, sorry.

322
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,000
I wonder why he didn't go up to the house though.

323
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,000
Maybe he's like, I'm overreacting, but I'm just going to call just in case.

324
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,000
Yeah, like the police will check it out and if it's like not weird, then they'll know.

325
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000
I'd rather call and be wrong than not call.

326
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,000
Yeah.

327
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,000
And be right.

328
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,000
Officer Chris Camacho responded to the scene.

329
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:33,000
When officer Camacho knocked on the door to the residence, Camacho heard rustling behind the door.

330
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:43,000
Within a few seconds, a man opened the door, clearly shirtless, perhaps even nude, sweaty and sheltering himself behind the back of the door.

331
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Ew.

332
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,000
Suspicious at this point, Camacho asked the man to step outside.

333
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,000
The man then stated that he was in fact nude and that he had just gotten out of the shower.

334
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000
I'm a little sweaty.

335
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000
I'm a little sweaty.

336
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,000
I'm just going on the shower is why I'm so sweaty.

337
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,000
I mean, I have water on me.

338
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:07,000
This answer did not appease Camacho, who then commanded the man to open the door within 10 seconds, lest he kick the door in himself.

339
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000
Hit him right in the dick when he kicks it open.

340
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000
I thought that was some magic.

341
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,000
Boom.

342
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:21,000
With this, the man bolted further into the residence, leaving the officer with the front door cracked open.

343
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,000
He was just like, oh fuck this.

344
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,000
Well, that's silly because the officer can just come on in now.

345
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,000
Right.

346
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,000
The officer drew his service weapon and then forced the door open.

347
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,000
What he saw is an image that the officer will never forget.

348
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
I don't know.

349
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,000
There, lying on the kitchen floor, it was a small, bloodied, lifeless body.

350
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:49,000
Eight-year-old Tali lay there with a large metal bar across her neck, placed there in order to keep her from escaping the assault.

351
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:54,000
She had been stripped of her clothing, sexually assaulted, and beaten violently.

352
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,000
What?

353
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:01,000
Camacho later recalled thinking that there's no possible way that all of this blood was just from this little girl,

354
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:08,000
saying, quote, they say a picture is worth a thousand words and that image of those little white Mary Jane shoes on the floor

355
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
with that metal bar that he used to strangle her, that puddle of blood.

356
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,000
It just looks like too much blood to come out of a tiny eight-year-old like that, end quote.

357
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000
Oh, that's horrible.

358
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,000
Ah, heaps.

359
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:28,000
As shocking as this was, Officer Camacho had to pull himself together in order to catch the perpetrator of this horrific crime.

360
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Camacho called for backup and emergency services and began to clear the house.

361
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000
However, room by room, Camacho came up and de-handed.

362
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000
The assailant had evaded Camacho through a window.

363
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:47,000
Returning to the kitchen to investigate the scene further, Camacho found a light in all of the darkness that surrounded him in that room.

364
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,000
The little girl had began to gag and was thankfully breathing.

365
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,000
Oh my God.

366
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Camacho began to treat the girl until emergency services arrived.

367
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:05,000
Tallya was taken to the hospital where she would be in a 32-day coma, needing months of hospitalization, but she would ultimately survive.

368
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,000
Oh my gosh, how incredible.

369
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,000
Eight years old.

370
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,000
Eight years old.

371
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000
What a strong girl.

372
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:18,000
As police and investigators look around the scene for clues to the identity of the rapist and would-be murderer,

373
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:25,000
they were disturbed to find hundreds of photos of young girls ranging from college age to toddlers.

374
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,000
Oh my God.

375
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:31,000
Seemingly, these individuals had no idea that their photos were being taken at most cases.

376
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:37,000
In others, it appeared that the girls were willing participants at parties or beaches.

377
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:45,000
Some photos were of women topless, some consensual, but others appeared to be more covert, like they were taken without the subject's knowledge.

378
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Yeah.

379
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,000
And I mean, let's be real, if you're at a party or at the beach and you tell some girls to get together and smile, they're probably going to.

380
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000
Right.

381
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
It's innocent.

382
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,000
It seems innocent.

383
00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:06,000
Among these photos and a few collections of fingerprints around the home, one thing did lead to the identity of the suspect, without a doubt, Rodney Alcala's UCLA ID.

384
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,000
Oh my gosh.

385
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,000
Silly man.

386
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,000
Silly man.

387
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,000
So did he run away naked?

388
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000
I don't know.

389
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000
That's my question.

390
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000
He escaped out the window, like, nude and just bolted.

391
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,000
Yeah.

392
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000
And nobody- I mean, it's LA, I don't know.

393
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,000
Oh, sure.

394
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Sorry, LA.

395
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:29,000
Meanwhile, a one John Berger applied and was accepted to NYU in New York City.

396
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,000
He was pursuing a degree in arts, majoring in photography.

397
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:41,000
While pursuing his degree, he also obtained a job as an arts counselor at a children's camp in New Hampshire, teaching photography.

398
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,000
What's this man's name?

399
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,000
John Berger.

400
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
Sounds fake.

401
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,000
He lived in Manhattan and seemed to do well for himself.

402
00:21:51,000 --> 00:22:02,000
John also worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield Association around the same time as infamous serial killer Richard Cottingham, also known as the Times Square Ripper.

403
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,000
Oh.

404
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Richard would go on to be suspected of killing over 18 people, possibly more, between the years of 1967 and 1980, although there is no real proof that John knew of Richard's double life.

405
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:25,000
One day on June 24, 1971, John was walking near his home when he came across 23-year-old Cornelia Krilley.

406
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,000
Cornelia had, earlier in the year, been hired for her dream job.

407
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000
She was a TWA flight attendant.

408
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,000
That sounds like so much fun when you're 23.

409
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000
Just be a flight attendant?

410
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,000
Oh my gosh.

411
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
I have a girlfriend that is a flight attendant.

412
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
She just got through training a few months ago and she's in her mid-20s and she just loves it.

413
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
I'm like, jelly, I can't do it though.

414
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,000
There's no way I can even fly on a plane once, let alone like four times in a day.

415
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000
For vacation.

416
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000
But yeah, four times a day.

417
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,000
But I feel like you would just get desensitized to it.

418
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Yeah.

419
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,000
She'll come up and she's like, yeah, I was at Chicago today and then Miami and then, you know, all these different cool places.

420
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,000
I'm like, that's crazy.

421
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,000
All on the same day, right?

422
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
You're just in like four different states.

423
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Wild.

424
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:10,000
She was so excited for this new venture and with this new direction in her life, why not also add a new apartment?

425
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Cornelia was moving into the neighborhood with her roommate and fellow stewardess when she encountered John,

426
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000
who struck up a conversation with his new neighbor.

427
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:25,000
John offered to help Cornelia upstairs with a few boxes to which Cornelia agreed.

428
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:32,000
Later that evening, Leon and Borstein, which is Cornelia's boyfriend, had come to the residence, the new residence,

429
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,000
only to realize that the door was locked.

430
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Leon knocked and knocked, but no response.

431
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Leon thought that this was strange as Cornelia was expecting him home after work at the new apartment,

432
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,000
but no bother.

433
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Leon and Cornelia were actually sharing a place around the corner from her new place.

434
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,000
So originally this is their old apartment and she was moving out of this apartment with her girlfriend.

435
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,000
And there was still like a lapse in the lease or something.

436
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000
Yeah, or I think maybe he wanted to maintain that apartment.

437
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Oh, he stayed.

438
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Yeah.

439
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,000
So Leon thought maybe she just wanted to stay at the old place tonight for some reason.

440
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000
So Leon headed to the old apartment.

441
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,000
The Cornelia was nowhere to be found.

442
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000
He began to call her new residence repeatedly with no answer.

443
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,000
Leon found this to be very unusual, so he did phone the police.

444
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,000
When police arrived, they had the landlord open the door.

445
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Inside the police found the body of 23-year-old Cornelia.

446
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Oh, shit.

447
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,000
She had been raped and strangled with her own nylon stockings.

448
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,000
The violence Cornelia had endured was apparent.

449
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,000
She had been beaten and bitten repeatedly.

450
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:50,000
Besides finding Cornelia, the police found seemingly no other relative evidence as to who might have committed this crime.

451
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Although there was DNA at the scene, there was no other direct forensic evidence that was collected,

452
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000
and there were no eyewitnesses that came forward seeing the two together.

453
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Or whoever might have done this, right?

454
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Yeah, she just moved in there.

455
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000
That's so horrible.

456
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
And nobody in the neighborhood knows you.

457
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Yeah, exactly.

458
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,000
Like what?

459
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Like they probably couldn't even point you out of a picture if they tried to.

460
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,000
At least not in the building, because Leon and her shared another apartment that was close by,

461
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000
but at least people in your building don't know you.

462
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Well, not yet, yeah.

463
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,000
And even the perpetrator, right?

464
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,000
The perpetrator, they were like, oh, okay, well, clearly this couple is moving in, right?

465
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
If it's a man.

466
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,000
I mean, we know who it is.

467
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
It's the title of the episode.

468
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,000
Cornelia's case would eventually go cold and would not be solved for 40 years.

469
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000
Oh my gosh.

470
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
Could you imagine?

471
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,000
No, I could not.

472
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000
That is horrible.

473
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,000
In Los Angeles, police were still on the lookout for Rodney Alcala.

474
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Eventually, he would catch the attention of the FBI, as it was likely that Rodney fled the state.

475
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:04,000
He was added to the FBI's most wanted list, and within a month or two, the FBI would receive a phone call.

476
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Two girls from an art camp in New Hampshire recognized the photo of Rodney Alcala,

477
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,000
and then it had a strong resemblance to their counselor, John Berger.

478
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Hmm, interesting.

479
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Who saw that one coming?

480
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Not me.

481
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:25,000
This information was passed on to the camp director, who then contacted the FBI.

482
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Investigators confronted John at the camp, where he was taken into custody.

483
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:39,000
So they essentially were holding him until they can confirm that the fingerprints that he gave a sample of

484
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000
matched the fingerprints at the Tali's Shapiro assault scene.

485
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000
So essentially, they were confirming that John Berger's identity was that of Rodney Alcala.

486
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000
He was brought back to California to face the music.

487
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,000
However, the Shapiro family, in an effort to put the trauma behind them and Tali,

488
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,000
had actually moved the entire family to Mexico to start a new life.

489
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Isn't that interesting, that like full circle?

490
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Right?

491
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Oh.

492
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,000
I mean, this is like right around the California border.

493
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,000
I'm not entirely sure where they were in Mexico, but...

494
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000
Yeah.

495
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:22,000
I mean, I don't blame them, but it is frustrating to see him not get brought to justice.

496
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,000
But I don't blame them.

497
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,000
I don't know what I would do in that situation.

498
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Right.

499
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
Especially if she survived.

500
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000
I mean, she's probably, I mean, she is traumatized.

501
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000
Right.

502
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
That must be extremely difficult for them.

503
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,000
And now, maybe nine year old to go through all that trial again and have all those wounds reopened.

504
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Exactly.

505
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:46,000
The Shapiro family had no intention of re-traumatizing Tali by picking her life back up in order to relive this assault.

506
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Rodney's charges would be dropped from a rape and attempted murder charge to a child molestation charge.

507
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,000
Ew.

508
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000
He was sentenced to a measly three years in prison.

509
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,000
However...

510
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000
The next day.

511
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000
No.

512
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000
He was released after serving just 17 months.

513
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Wow.

514
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
That's fucking great.

515
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Let him out.

516
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Let him go hurt someone else.

517
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,000
This is partly due to another evaluation that Rodney had in which it was determined that

518
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,000
incarceration allowed Rodney to regulate his routine, becoming a model inmate.

519
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,000
Because he has routine.

520
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Right.

521
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Once he's out, he will no longer have that routine because it's not required of him.

522
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,000
They're like, oh, well because he's institutionalized, it's working for him.

523
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Let's let him out.

524
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Let's not do that anymore.

525
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Yeah.

526
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
What the heck?

527
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Like, why?

528
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,000
When Rodney did get out, he had to register as a sex offender.

529
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
That was part of the deal, which, duh.

530
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:45,000
This did not stop Rodney from becoming a freelance photographer as he would be his own boss.

531
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,000
Essentially, he didn't have to report to anybody.

532
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000
Oh, I'm making my money as a freelance photographer.

533
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000
I am my boss, so my boss knows that I'm a sex offender.

534
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,000
My boss knows.

535
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,000
It's me.

536
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,000
I'm my boss.

537
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,000
I'm my boss.

538
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000
He just puts on a mustache and glasses and turns around.

539
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,000
At least takes the manager and turns around.

540
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,000
I'm the manager.

541
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:14,000
In two months of his release, Rodney was driving when he saw a 13-year-old known only as Julie walking down the street headed to school.

542
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Rodney pulled over and asked the girl if she needed a ride.

543
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Seems like his own at this point.

544
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Julie then got on the vehicle and instead of driving Julie to school, Rodney then asked the girl if she wanted to go to the beach.

545
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Take some pictures.

546
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Hey, instead of going to school, let's go to the beach.

547
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,000
I'm a fun guy.

548
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,000
I know your parents.

549
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:39,000
Knowing it was wrong, but was feeling a little rebellious, Julie agreed.

550
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,000
The two parked in the parking lot and Rodney began to smoke some weed.

551
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:49,000
He then urged the young girl to participate in sharing the weed with him, to which Julie agreed.

552
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Luckily, the smell of the marijuana alerted a police officer who was patrolling the beach parking lot.

553
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Wow.

554
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:06,000
The officer approached the vehicle and after a short investigation realized the two did not know each other and in fact Rodney was a convicted child molester.

555
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,000
Oh, weird.

556
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Praise this man.

557
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
You're with a child.

558
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
You're with a child?

559
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Like, God, what a creep.

560
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Obviously this broke Rodney's parole conditions and he was brought back to prison.

561
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:24,000
This time he would spend two years in prison, still a slap on the wrist for Rodney.

562
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,000
During his time in prison, once again Rodney was a model prisoner.

563
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:35,000
He participated in various groups and programs and was released in 1977.

564
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,000
In New York, front page news.

565
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:48,000
A young woman by the name of Ellen Jane Hover, aged 23, went missing after July 15, 1977.

566
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Ellen was somewhat famous locally as she was the goddaughter of Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr.

567
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Oh, wow.

568
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,000
As well as her father being a local nightclub owner.

569
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,000
This is like, okay, really?

570
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Like you're gonna fuck with this lady?

571
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Yeah.

572
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,000
Ellen's body was not found until a year later.

573
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,000
She was located under rocks by the Hudson River shore.

574
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Only one lead was found in the case and it was the last written entry in Ellen's pocketbook.

575
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
A meeting with a man by the name of John Berger.

576
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,000
He used the same name.

577
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,000
That's silly.

578
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,000
Connections to Alcala would not be made until years later.

579
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:39,000
Rodney, however, during this time when she wasn't found, which was essentially over the course of a year,

580
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:47,000
Rodney had actually taken several pictures of women at the location of Ellen's body prior to her being discovered.

581
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,000
My god.

582
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Like later interviews with some women, because he claimed he was this big photographer while he had taken women out there

583
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:04,000
to take pictures of them standing on the rocks unknowingly, unknowingly that there was one of his murder victims underneath these rocks.

584
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,000
That is sick.

585
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,000
It's really fucking sick.

586
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,000
Also, I've seen his pictures. He's a crap photographer.

587
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,000
Also, you suck at photography.

588
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,000
It was also determined later on that due to Rodney's well-behaved demeanor in prison,

589
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,000
Rodney's parole officer had actually allowed Rodney to take this trip to New York during this time.

590
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,000
Because this is in New York.

591
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:33,000
And you're thinking like, oh, he was just released in 1977 for not only, you know, a child molestation

592
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,000
when he really almost killed someone.

593
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Attempted murder.

594
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
And sexually assaulted this eight-year-old.

595
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Then he's caught in a vehicle with a 13-year-old.

596
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,000
He goes to serve two years.

597
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,000
And you're thinking like, how would he possibly be in New York as John Berger with this girl?

598
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000
Because his parolee was like, just go.

599
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000
His parole officer was just like, go.

600
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Oh, you need to go visit family?

601
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,000
That's okay.

602
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
You're a model prisoner.

603
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
That man should be held liable.

604
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Yeah.

605
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Rodney continues to scheme and manipulate his identity, landing a job with the New York Times.

606
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:16,000
He continued to do photography, claiming to be a critically acclaimed photographer,

607
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,000
having no shortage of models and women to work with.

608
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,000
So he just stayed in New York and his parole officer was just cool with it?

609
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,000
Well, yeah, part of it is like, okay, well, now I'm here working.

610
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,000
I'm hired by the New York Times.

611
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,000
And the thing is, is that the New York Times believed whatever crap he sold them,

612
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,000
and they didn't even do a background check on this guy.

613
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:43,000
He often bragged to others at work and at bars, carrying around photographs of the women, girls,

614
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,000
and even young boys he had photographed.

615
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,000
I'd be like, please don't show me that.

616
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,000
I don't want to see that.

617
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,000
And why do you have that?

618
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,000
I'm calling the authorities.

619
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Only on occasion when he felt like he could get away with it, did he show young girls and young boys nude to others,

620
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:05,000
claiming that they were photographed with the parents' permission and it was all in the name of art.

621
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,000
The parents' permission, what, who know, my ass, like that's still illegal.

622
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,000
And not only is it illegal for you to take those photos, it's extra legal for you to have them in your possession.

623
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:22,000
I kind of think back to the whole era of Roman Polanski and Roman Polanski.

624
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,000
So that's Sharon Tate's husband, the one that was murdered by Charles Manson's family.

625
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,000
So Charles Manson killed Sharon Tate.

626
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Sharon Tate was pregnant with Roman Polanski's baby.

627
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:38,000
And I really feel like that mentally really messed him up in a way that is, like, you can't come back from it.

628
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,000
And this is not an excuse, just thinking about the mental health aspect of this.

629
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:51,000
But he had sexually assaulted young girls in a jacuzzi at his house.

630
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:57,000
The specific instance I'm talking about, because I feel like I'd have it more than once, in my opinion,

631
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,000
the mother dropped her off.

632
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,000
She was like 12, 13 years old and the mother dropped her off because she's thinking,

633
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:12,000
oh, this guy is a famous actor, director, whatever, and this is her casting, and things like that were just kind of...

634
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
She's gonna go far with him.

635
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,000
Yeah, I mean Drew Barrymore was dropped off at Studio 54 when she was...

636
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,000
Six.

637
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
Six, you know? Is it 54?

638
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,000
I don't know.

639
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,000
Yeah, you know, and there's cocaine and shit, you know?

640
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,000
Yeah.

641
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Like, I mean, it's just, it's not...

642
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Adults were adults, you just trusted adults.

643
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Yeah, and there, I mean, unfortunately, there are parents out there that are okay with exploiting their children,

644
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,000
whether it's for fame or money or whatever.

645
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,000
I don't think that's the case in this case.

646
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:46,000
I'm not saying that this case here, but it's not far-fetched when people that are of this New York status,

647
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,000
you know, this guy works for the New York Times, I work for the New York Times, no, I don't know what art is, this is art.

648
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,000
That's true, if they would see it and they wouldn't immediately raise red flags to some people.

649
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,000
Either way, these images were never reported to police, bullshit.

650
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,000
They should have been.

651
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Yeah.

652
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,000
A lot of these child porn victims have never been identified to this day.

653
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:12,000
In fact, there is a collection of images of people who have yet to be identified in Rodney Alcala's collection.

654
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Wow.

655
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
These collections are available to the public online,

656
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,000
each still needing to be located and identified to ensure that these individuals are actually alive

657
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
and survive their encounter with Alcala.

658
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:31,000
In November 1977, the body of Jill Barkham was found off of Mahallan Drive.

659
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,000
She was found beaten, sexually assaulted, and strangled with her own blue jeans.

660
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Ugh.

661
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000
She had also been bitten several times.

662
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,000
She was just 18 years old.

663
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:47,000
During this time, however, two other perpetrators were actually arrested for similar crimes in the area.

664
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
And although neither of these two criminals confessed to the killing,

665
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,000
it was assumed by LAPD that either of them might be responsible for Jill's death,

666
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,000
and therefore there was no other suspects interviewed for this.

667
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,000
Oh, great.

668
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Yeah.

669
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,000
Love when they get like a tunnel vision, right?

670
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Or they get a free pass, like the perpetrator, like,

671
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,000
oh, someone just took the blame for me, cool.

672
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,000
I mean, clearly these people aren't trustworthy enough to be like,

673
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
oh, I'm gonna, actually, you know what, they didn't do that.

674
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,000
That was me.

675
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,000
Yeah, exactly.

676
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,000
In mid-December 1977, it was realized that Rodney Alcala was in fact John Berger.

677
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
However, officially, in the case of Helen Hover,

678
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,000
there was no evidence that Alcala was complicit in Ellen's disappearance.

679
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Just two days after receiving the news that investigators were not officially charging Rodney for the murder,

680
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:41,000
27-year-old Georgiea Wickstead was late picking up a coworker for work.

681
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,000
So he's like, oh, I'm in the clear now.

682
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Yeah, I'll kill again.

683
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,000
After several hours, coworkers called for a welfare check on the women's apartment.

684
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,000
When police arrived, they noticed that the front door had been seemingly kicked in.

685
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,000
Georgiea was laying in her bedroom, deceased.

686
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:04,000
She had been sexually assaulted, beaten, bitten, and strangled with her own stockings.

687
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Oh my God, this guy's heinous.

688
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,000
Her generals had also been mutilated.

689
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Oh my God.

690
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,000
Rodney was not immediately linked to Georgiea's murder.

691
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,000
The fingerprints and DNA were collected at the scene.

692
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,000
In March 1978, police would come knocking on Rodney's door to ask about a particular set of murders.

693
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000
However, these would not be his own.

694
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,000
They were that of the hillside strangler.

695
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Oh no.

696
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Aka the two perpetrators I mentioned earlier.

697
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,000
Aka Kenneth Bianchi and Angelino Buono.

698
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,000
They would be responsible for over 10 people's deaths in the area.

699
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,000
And given Rodney's history, he was initially looked at as a suspect for these crimes.

700
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,000
I've been meaning to cover their case.

701
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,000
It's wild.

702
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,000
But police would ultimately find that Rodney had alibis for the nights in question.

703
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:04,000
By June 1978, an at first unidentified woman was found strangled to death in an apartment complex laundry room.

704
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:11,000
Her identity would not be discovered until months later, as 31-year-old legal secretary Charlotte Lee Layam.

705
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,000
DNA was also collected from her body at this scene for later comparison.

706
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:23,000
It's so frustrating that they have DNA, but they just don't have the technology to trace it.

707
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:29,000
Just days after Charlotte's body was identified, Rodney Alcala appeared on television,

708
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000
but it was not on the news as some might suspect.

709
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,000
What?

710
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,000
Rodney had been casted to participate in a show called The Dating Game.

711
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,000
Now we may have seen this show played out in other variations on shows or movies.

712
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,000
For instance, MTV tried revamping it in the 2000s,

713
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,000
RuPaul's Drag Race had a spoof where the Queens dressed up as various celebrities,

714
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:58,000
and in the movie Mall Rats, The Dating Game is used as a ploy to get two crazy kids back together again.

715
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:07,000
For those who might not know, this show is built in a way that a potential bachelorette asks various questions to three potential suitors,

716
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:12,000
but they are hidden behind a screen so it looks mean nothing to the bachelorette.

717
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,000
Based upon the way that the potential suitors answer their questions,

718
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
the bachelorette determines which bachelors she would like to go on a date with.

719
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,000
Expenses are paid for by the show, including the impending date.

720
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Rodney was described as a successful photographer who loved adventure and would someday go skydiving,

721
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,000
or maybe even purchase a motorcycle.

722
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,000
Oh, and he's also a registered sex offender.

723
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000
And again, they didn't do their research.

724
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,000
I was gonna say, shouldn't they have done a background check?

725
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,000
I don't even, you know what, you can find the episode on YouTube,

726
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,000
and I don't know if he went by Rodney, he might have gone by a different name.

727
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:49,000
A different alien.

728
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Maybe John, who knows.

729
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,000
Rodney would actually win the show's episode,

730
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,000
getting the chance to take Cheryl Bradshaw out for their first date.

731
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:05,000
The screen drops at the end and Rodney and Cheryl see each other face to face for the first time.

732
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,000
The two would then go backstage and begin to chat.

733
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:13,000
According to an article by Marco Margaritoff, Cheryl said about this time,

734
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,000
quote, I started to feel ill.

735
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,000
He was acting really creepy, end quote.

736
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:25,000
The article goes on, quote, while Cheryl Bradshaw initially agreed to meet her bachelor for a date,

737
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:31,000
the following day her instincts took over, and she called one of the show's producers, Ellen Metzger, end quote.

738
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:37,000
She went on to say, quote, Ellen, I can't go out with this guy, end quote, recalled Metzger,

739
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000
quote, there's weird vibes that are coming off of him.

740
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,000
He's very strange.

741
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,000
I'm not comfortable.

742
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,000
Is that going to be a problem?

743
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,000
And of course, Ellen said no.

744
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Cheryl would not go on her date with Rodney,

745
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,000
and in the following year, in February 1979,

746
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,000
Rodney picked up 15-year-old hitchhiker, Monique Hoyt.

747
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,000
Monique was traveling alone, and Rodney found the opportunity to pick her up.

748
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,000
Monique got in the car willingly, and the two traveled up to the mountains.

749
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:16,000
Rodney coaxed the girl out of the car once they arrived to their destination and began to ask her to undress.

750
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,000
She did, and Rodney began to take pictures of her.

751
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,000
He then began to touch her, and although Monique did not like what was going on,

752
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,000
she realized that she was at Alcala's mercy, that she felt like she had no choice.

753
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,000
She's out in the middle of nowhere with this dude.

754
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:38,000
Rodney continued to sexually assault Monique, and then began to rape her.

755
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,000
Rodney continued to take pictures of his assault on Monique.

756
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,000
He then, seemingly out of nowhere, became enraged and began hitting Monique,

757
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,000
bludgeoning her over the head repeatedly with a rock.

758
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,000
What the fuck?

759
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,000
Alcala choked the girl violently and then sodomized her.

760
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:01,000
Miraculously, Monique never lost consciousness during this,

761
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:08,000
and due to her being submissive to Rodney's attack, he chose to clothe the girl and place her back in the car.

762
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Rodney pulled into a gas station, and when he walked inside to pay for gas and use a restroom,

763
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,000
Monique realized her opportunity.

764
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,000
She would escape, and Monique was then helped by others, who then called police.

765
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,000
Oh wow.

766
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Rodney Alcala was arrested and charged with assault and rape.

767
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,000
However, his mother bailed him out of jail.

768
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Oh great.

769
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,000
That's what it means to not be incarcerated. We've seen it.

770
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,000
That's crazy. Like, I don't know. I don't even know what to say.

771
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,000
After his arrest and while Rodney was awaiting his trial,

772
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,000
essentially there was no hiding his record from the New York Times at this point.

773
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,000
Like, he's like, they're gonna find out about it, so essentially he resigned.

774
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,000
He's like, I missed a week of work because I was in jail.

775
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,000
But don't fire me.

776
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,000
Don't look into my background.

777
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:07,000
You're probably already aware that craft beers have exploded in popularity over the past decade,

778
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:14,000
but what you might not know is that there are thousands of awesome craft beers being produced by these new micro breweries every day.

779
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,000
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780
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,000
and includes four beer styles with a brand new box with each shipment.

781
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,000
You will also receive publications that detail the history about the featured breweries,

782
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000
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783
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Click on our link in the show notes and receive an exclusive offer today with Craft Beer Club.

784
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:50,000
In June 1979, 22-year-old Jill Perinto left her job as a computer operator early in order to attend a baseball game.

785
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,000
This was her last known whereabouts.

786
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:59,000
The next morning when Jill did not return to work, police were called to her residence for a welfare check.

787
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:05,000
The door had signs of force entry and there in the apartment Jill was found dead.

788
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,000
Which is interesting to me because he has two types of MOs here.

789
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:16,000
It's picking up the young girls on their way to school or it's breaking into people's apartments.

790
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:22,000
I wonder if he's stalking them before he's doing this and then when he tries to follow them into the apartment,

791
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,000
maybe they struggle and that's the force?

792
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Maybe and he obviously knows that these young girls live at home with their parents so it's easier to abduct them while they're by themselves on the side of the road.

793
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000
That's true.

794
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,000
And these older women, not older, but you know what I mean?

795
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,000
The adults are probably alone by themselves and he knows that.

796
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,000
Jill had been raped, strangled, beaten, and bitten.

797
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000
DNA was collected from the scene.

798
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Take a freaking mold of the bite mark please.

799
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Like, god dang it.

800
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,000
The food ontology was really all this big then.

801
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,000
Well, should have been.

802
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Should have been.

803
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,000
Go back in time.

804
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000
If I could go back in time.

805
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,000
That was originally what I wanted to do.

806
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:05,000
There's a reason that there's a bunch of old people in that field is because you have to take forensics and dentistry.

807
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,000
Yeah, for sure.

808
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,000
There's a lot.

809
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,000
You have to have a doctor.

810
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,000
It's crazy.

811
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:21,000
Robin Christine Samsoe was 12 years old when she was riding her bike home after attending her ballet class on June 20th, 1979.

812
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,000
She was stopped by the beach to visit with some friends.

813
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:36,000
A witness known as Dana, who was 20 years old at the time and a firefighter, noticed a creepy looking, dark, curly haired man on the side of the road on her way to work.

814
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:42,000
It appeared as if he was struggling with a young blonde girl on the edge of some woods.

815
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:52,000
Although this seemed unusual at the time, Dana likely thought that this must be two family members having a fight or maybe it's a dad having an exhausting time controlling his daughter.

816
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,000
Don't assume that.

817
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,000
Dana essentially talked herself out of communicating with police about what she saw.

818
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,000
Again, we'd rather you overreact than underreact in something that happens.

819
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,000
Robin would not be found for another 12 days.

820
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,000
Her body dumped in the foothills of a lay and she was missing an earring.

821
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:16,000
I'm also not blaming this witness. I'm just saying out loud just for the future.

822
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Well, I also read in a few other instances that she went and investigated the woods herself and then may or may not have seen something and then still chose not to report it.

823
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,000
And then went back a third time with someone else because she thought what she found was animal bones.

824
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,000
And it turned out to be the remains of this little girl.

825
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:42,000
It's so hard because fear is so powerful. It could just be like, maybe if I tell someone else, then they'll call. I'm so scared. I don't want to get hurt by this person.

826
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000
Maybe they saw me or whatever.

827
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:52,000
And I think some people are afraid of the reaction of a parent. If it's really this child's parent and the parent's like, mind your own business.

828
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,000
What are you looking at?

829
00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:07,000
I mean, I don't know. Is it better to have that potentially five minute interaction with a very angry stranger or, again, if this person is capable of hurting someone, you don't know.

830
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,000
They're going to hurt you too.

831
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,000
But she should have reported it.

832
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,000
It's hard, yeah.

833
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,000
In my opinion.

834
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:22,000
When asked about the day that Robin went missing, some of her girlfriends said that a creepy man with curly hair approached the young girls and asked them to take photographs with him.

835
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Imagine being described as creepy by multiple different people.

836
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,000
Imagine being described as having halitosis.

837
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,000
Yeah.

838
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Richard Ramirez.

839
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:37,000
Robin was the only one who seemed to agree to take photos with the stranger, but once out of sight, her friends could not find her.

840
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Oh no.

841
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:44,000
Like they're like, okay, sure. But like, stay with an eyesight and then she's gone.

842
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,000
That's so scary.

843
00:48:45,000 --> 00:49:00,000
A composite drawing was created by the descriptions of the girls and once the sketch began to circulate around the police station, Rodney Alcala's own parole officer recognized him from the sketch as potentially being Rodney.

844
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,000
He's like, yeah, that's my A-wall.

845
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,000
That's my parolee.

846
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,000
Parolee that I don't keep track of.

847
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:15,000
The sketch was featured on the nightly news and once Rodney saw this, he decided to chemically straighten his hair.

848
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,000
But when the chemicals were off, Rodney decided to cut his own hair off.

849
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000
There's a creepy curly-headed guy.

850
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,000
He's like, God dang it, they keep getting in front of my hair.

851
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,000
I can get rid of my hair, but you can't get rid of that creepy.

852
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Rodney would also remove the carpet from his vehicle, but this did not stop police from eventually revealing that Rodney Alcala was in fact their prime suspect and at least Robin's murder.

853
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,000
And now he has wavy hair.

854
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,000
Now he's got bald head.

855
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,000
Oh he shaved his head.

856
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:53,000
Rodney told others around him at this time, specifically his girlfriend, who we have not mentioned,

857
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,000
that he planned on moving to Dallas for no specific reason.

858
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,000
He's like, career opportunities, y'all.

859
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,000
I'm either gonna, yeah.

860
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:08,000
It has nothing to do with the shaved head or my dyed blonde mustache or any me trying to put on weight so I don't look dangly and creepy.

861
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,000
I'm either gonna move to Dallas or I'm gonna flee the country.

862
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,000
It's still up near.

863
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,000
It's one or the other.

864
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,000
I have family in Mexico.

865
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:23,000
Before leaving permanently, Rodney would rent a storage unit in Seattle, moving some items into the unit before traveling down to Texas.

866
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,000
Although he told no one of this unit at the time.

867
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,000
Rent a storage unit? Tell no one.

868
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Tell no one.

869
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,000
Hot on his trail, detectives show up to Alcala's residence, which he shared with his girlfriend.

870
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,000
They had found a receipt for the storage unit in Seattle.

871
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:49,000
They traveled to Seattle and open Rodney's storage unit, and there among his belongings was an earring that matched the one left behind at Robin's scene.

872
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,000
Wow.

873
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,000
He was like taking tokens.

874
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,000
And I don't know how many tokens he took.

875
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Yeah.

876
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,000
I really don't.

877
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,000
I don't know if that was put in the trial.

878
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,000
Didn't really see anything about tokens.

879
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,000
He probably did.

880
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,000
He probably did.

881
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:08,000
Also included in the unit was over 1,700 photographs of mostly explicit situations.

882
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,000
Oh my god.

883
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:15,000
I think only 100 have actually been released to the public for identification because the others are just too graphic.

884
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Right.

885
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,000
And even if it's just their face, it's probably still graphic.

886
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,000
Yeah.

887
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,000
But that's in Seattle.

888
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Why so far away?

889
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Why wouldn't you rent?

890
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:30,000
I mean, when people take photographs like that, in my personal opinion, and they have trophies, they go back to them frequently.

891
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,000
They like to have those mementos to go refer back to.

892
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,000
So interesting to me that he would have them so far away from him.

893
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,000
I think what he was thinking is, okay, I live in LA.

894
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,000
I get a storage unit up in Seattle.

895
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:48,000
No one will find it because I'm telling everyone, anybody that's close to me, that I'm going to Texas.

896
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,000
Yeah.

897
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,000
It's a complete opposite way.

898
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,000
But at least it's safe.

899
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
I mean, he's still paying for the storage unit.

900
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,000
That's true.

901
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,000
So I think he took it with him.

902
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,000
And if he was going to get caught between LA and Texas, he wasn't going to drive with them.

903
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,000
Right.

904
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,000
Yeah, that's true.

905
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:10,000
Rodney would eventually be found and arrested on multiple charges, including ludox with a child, kidnapping and murder.

906
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:16,000
Rodney was held without bail, and Rodney would ultimately plead not guilty.

907
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:22,000
He first went on trial for Robin's murder, in which he would be found guilty and sentenced to death.

908
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:32,000
Although this verdict would be appealed and overturned, given that the jury was told about Rodney's prior crimes, and therefore painted an unflattering picture of the defendant.

909
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,000
No one did that to him.

910
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,000
He did that to himself.

911
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,000
Yeah.

912
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,000
This is your past, bro.

913
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,000
You painted an unflattering Bob Ross painting of your life.

914
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,000
Okay, no one else.

915
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,000
They're happy little accidents.

916
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,000
Oh, geez.

917
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,000
That's awful.

918
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:59,000
A second trial was granted in 1986, and even without the juries hearing any priors, they still convicted him of first-degree murder, and he was sentenced to death again.

919
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:07,000
In 2001, Alcala again filed for habeas corpus, and challenged that he had not had a fair trial due to witness tampering.

920
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:13,000
He said something about somebody being hypnotized, and that's why that checks up.

921
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Either way, it was granted, and again, was overturned.

922
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,000
What?

923
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,000
This decision was upheld again in 2003.

924
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,000
So they're just like, yeah, clearly someone said was hypnotized.

925
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,000
Yeah, you get a new trial.

926
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:42,000
In preparation for another trial, DNA was then processed with new technology, and linked Alcala to the murders of Jill Barcombe, Giorgio Wexted, Charlotte Lam, and Jill Parento.

927
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,000
So it's like, okay, continue to appeal over and over again.

928
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,000
Yeah, we got you.

929
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,000
Now technology is developed.

930
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,000
Now you really can't get out of this shit.

931
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,000
Yeah, exactly.

932
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,000
Dummy.

933
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,000
Evidence was misplaced.

934
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Ronny decided to represent himself.

935
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,000
That's one word.

936
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,000
He's like, that wasn't me, that was John.

937
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,000
That was probably his biggest argument.

938
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:11,000
His defense this time was simply that he didn't remember committing any of these crimes.

939
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:22,000
As a part of Ronny's closing argument, he insisted that the nearly 20 minute song Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie be played.

940
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:30,000
And it is somehow related, and I really don't care to read or research his explanation of how, because I have no idea.

941
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,000
Something about the protagonist talking about killing someone.

942
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:40,000
I don't, I didn't care to Google it because I don't, if you want to Google it, just Google it.

943
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:46,000
No, I won't, but since when do murder defendants who decide to defend themselves get requests?

944
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,000
I don't know.

945
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:55,000
Yeah, he's like, all right, up next on the DJ stage, it's Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant for the next 20 minutes.

946
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,000
Yeah, like what the hell?

947
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,000
Oh my gosh.

948
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,000
What a random request.

949
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,000
Yeah, absolutely.

950
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,000
What an odd thing to say.

951
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,000
I think it's just, he simply just wanted to piss people off.

952
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,000
And that's the antisocial in him, the antisocial personality disorder.

953
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,000
I also think that that comes with, he must have narcissistic tendencies.

954
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:16,000
Because to think, I mean, anybody that testifies for themselves has narcissistic tendencies.

955
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,000
I'm just saying, he's like, I'm the greatest and I'm going to tell you why.

956
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,000
Can you play this 20 minutes song and I'll talk over it for 20 minutes.

957
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,000
But he thinks he's smarter than everybody.

958
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,000
It's the antisocial in the narcissism.

959
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,000
He thinks he's going to outsmart everybody.

960
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,000
No one can do this better than me.

961
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:35,000
Like Ted Bundy, like I need to testify for myself because no one else is going to get me free.

962
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,000
Nope, yeah, exactly.

963
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,000
And when it doesn't happen, he's like, well, system's rigged.

964
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,000
It's like, it's never his fault.

965
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,000
Yeah.

966
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Yeah, I agree with that.

967
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,000
It's very much, no one can explain my case the way that I can explain my case.

968
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,000
It's like, well, a lawyer has many years of training to do that.

969
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,000
They're definitely going to believe me.

970
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,000
They think they can outsmart and outwit everybody.

971
00:55:53,000 --> 00:56:00,000
I think that it's Ted Bundy's narcissistic tendency to want to become a lawyer because he makes himself feel,

972
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,000
it makes himself feel smarter than everyone else to be a lawyer.

973
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,000
So at least he has some history in that.

974
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:05,000
Yeah.

975
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,000
This man has never taken a law class.

976
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,000
That's true.

977
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,000
Ever.

978
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,000
But again, the anti-social, he has to outsmart, outwit, outplay the same survivor row.

979
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,000
Come on, you're getting convicted.

980
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:21,000
Ronnie Alcala would be found guilty of all five murder charges and again, was sentenced to death.

981
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:26,000
To avoid Alcala from filing yet again, the courts actually changed Alcala's status to quote,

982
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,000
convict of waiting execution and quote.

983
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,000
I was going to say, there's going to be some kind of record.

984
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,000
He's gotten sentenced to death like five different times.

985
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,000
Yeah, they were like, let's just switch his status to someone awaiting.

986
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,000
So it's pending.

987
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,000
Yeah, exactly.

988
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,000
Execution and he can't file appeals.

989
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000
Loophole.

990
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,000
Right?

991
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:50,000
Alcala would eventually be extradited to New York to face charges on the murders of Cornelia Criley and Ellen Hover.

992
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:57,000
Although he initially pled not guilty, he would change his plea to guilty and accept the charges of murder for an additional 25 years

993
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,000
because at this point, who cares?

994
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:03,000
I'm surprised he did that though, I feel like he would be stubborn and be like, nope.

995
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,000
Yeah.

996
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:10,000
Well, I mean, at this point his fate is sealed because he will be executed.

997
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,000
But that's what I'm saying, that stubbornness that I don't care about anybody kind of mentality,

998
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,000
that's kind of interesting that he would say, like, agreed to it.

999
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,000
I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if he had said, nope, not doing that.

1000
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,000
Maybe he just didn't want to be in New York.

1001
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,000
He's like, I don't want to be in this prison.

1002
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,000
That's true.

1003
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,000
I don't know.

1004
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:34,000
Ronnie James Alcala would die in prison in 2021 at the age of 77 to an unspecified illness.

1005
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:35,000
COVID.

1006
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,000
COVID.

1007
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,000
He got the bid.

1008
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:42,000
This would actually be the same date as his arrest date to the year.

1009
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,000
Wow.

1010
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,000
There are several other cases of rape and murder that Alcala has been suspected of committing.

1011
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:57,000
68-year-old Morgan Rowan came forward after Alcala's death to say that she was raped by Alcala in 1968 when she was just 16 years old.

1012
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,000
Oh my God.

1013
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,000
Could you imagine that moment?

1014
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,000
No.

1015
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,000
Yeah.

1016
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,000
To wait to tell your story.

1017
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,000
And only feeling comfortable doing so when your perpetrator is dead.

1018
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,000
When he's dead.

1019
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,000
And we know he can't hurt you anymore.

1020
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,000
Well, shit.

1021
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,000
I mean, seeing him get appeal after appeal for the death penalty, I would be scared too.

1022
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,000
He's going to get out.

1023
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,000
And if I publicly say this, he's going to come for me and finish the job or whatever.

1024
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,000
That's so scary.

1025
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:30,000
Pamela Lampson was 19 years old when she disappeared after being approached by a photographer to take pictures.

1026
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Her badly beaten body was discovered near a hiking trail in 1977.

1027
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:44,000
Brought me Alcala was actually charged with the murder of a 22-year-old named Christine Thornton from San Antonio, Texas.

1028
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:51,000
The murder took place in 1977 when Christine was hitchhiking to a ride in order to meet her boyfriend,

1029
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:55,000
as the two of them were planning on living together or moving in together.

1030
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,000
Pictures of Christine were found among Rodney Alcala's property.

1031
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:06,000
However, Rodney was ill later in his life and was unable to travel to Texas to stay on trial for her murder.

1032
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,000
Oh my gosh.

1033
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,000
He's been charged with her murder, but never tried for her murder.

1034
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,000
Like all of these situations and those poor families.

1035
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,000
You're never going to get that legal justice.

1036
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:29,000
I feel like I would need that. You and I have talked about this. I feel like I would need that for somebody to tell me or it be proven or be filed in some way.

1037
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:35,000
There are still over 100 photos of individuals that have not been identified by the great republic.

1038
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:41,000
We'll provide a link in the show notes if you or anyone else you know recognizes these individuals in these photos.

1039
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:47,000
And you are encouraged to report to the LAPD even if these individuals are alive and well.

1040
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,000
They still need to eliminate that these are not victims of Rodney Alcala.

1041
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,000
Definitely.

1042
00:59:51,000 --> 01:00:01,000
Although Rodney Alcala has been convicted of only five murders, he is suspected of having over 130 rape or suspected murder victims.

1043
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,000
Oh my gosh.

1044
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,000
130. Given the amount of photos.

1045
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:05,000
Right.

1046
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:13,000
And potentially, and again these very graphic photos haven't been released, but we have no idea what these photos contain.

1047
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,000
Yeah.

1048
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:19,000
If these people are in a position to where you know they likely didn't survive.

1049
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,000
Right. And it's like the photos that they know people that have been deceased.

1050
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,000
Like in those photos, you can prove that those people died.

1051
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:33,000
You can't prove that all the other people are deceased, but you can't prove that they're alive until people come forward and dispute it.

1052
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,000
Exactly.

1053
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,000
Yeah.

1054
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:36,000
Wow.

1055
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,000
That's Rodney Alcala.

1056
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:45,000
Dang. What a case. I thought it was a completely different case. I told you, I think when we paused for a second, I told you I thought it was the guy that was on family feud and it was like, who's the first person you're killing?

1057
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,000
He's like, my wife and then his wife like dies.

1058
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Like if he wants later, I don't know.

1059
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,000
That wasn't the prompt, but something like that.

1060
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,000
But wow.

1061
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:58,000
That was a lot of dropping the ball on a lot of people's parts.

1062
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:06,000
Like the parole officer, the law enforcement for releasing him, the failure to do background checks for the New York Times and the dating game.

1063
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:12,000
Like there was a lot of times where he was like pretty close to being found out and still got away with it.

1064
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,000
And then of course, four times or something, he got appealed.

1065
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,000
The death penalty, like that's insane.

1066
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,000
Yeah.

1067
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaking to that anti-social personality disorder, like you said with the whole narcissistic tendency is him even applying to be on a dating show when he's wanted by the FBI.

1068
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,000
Like are you, come on.

1069
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,000
He's arrogant.

1070
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,000
That's so arrogant.

1071
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:55,000
And then, yeah, there was also a little bit of speculation that with his narcissistic tendency, the reason he victimized the last few of his victims was after he was rejected by Cheryl Bradshaw, that she refused to go on that date and how good a publicity that must have looked if they had worked out or they dated after that.

1072
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:00,000
And that he was so mad at her, he continued to victimize other women.

1073
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,000
She definitely dodged a bullet and she trusted her instinct.

1074
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,000
I mean, she definitely, she saved her own life with that instinct.

1075
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,000
I fully believe that.

1076
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:08,000
For sure.

1077
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:15,000
That's horrible though, like all the other victims that he had, again, like we'll put the photos, a link to the photos down there.

1078
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:21,000
And if anybody knows anything or even thinks, you know, something, a speculation, just call.

1079
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000
Like I said, you'd rather call and be wrong than not call.

1080
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:33,000
And yeah, I mean, that's definitely something that would be really helpful in this case to try to bring some of these cases to justice or just rule them out as being harmed.

1081
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,000
Absolutely.

1082
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:38,000
And we have to remember that these photographs, police don't know where they were taken.

1083
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:48,000
We have to remember that he lived in New York, California, Texas, he at least went to Washington for the storage unit, anywhere in between where he may have dried.

1084
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,000
He lived in North Carolina when he was in the military.

1085
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,000
I feel like everyone that's listening to this episode should challenge themselves.

1086
01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,000
Take a look at the photos and see, I mean, worst case scenario, it's not the person you think it is.

1087
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,000
Yeah.

1088
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,000
Best case scenario, you can report that someone is alive and well.

1089
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,000
Right.

1090
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,000
And they weren't a victim of Rodney Alcala's.

1091
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,000
You never know.

1092
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,000
Or like you said, be able to bring him to justice and have some closure for a family that really needs it.

1093
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,000
Yeah, absolutely.

1094
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,000
Well, thanks for bringing that case.

1095
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,000
It was a really good one.

1096
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,000
Mm-hmm.

1097
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,000
You want to tell the people what we're doing again for Patreon?

1098
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,000
Yeah, we're actually going to be covering James Holmes.

1099
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:36,000
He was the perpetrator of the Aurora Theater shooting, the Dark Knight Theater shooting, and that happened in Denver, or Aurora, Colorado, which we were recently fortunate to visit.

1100
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:41,000
And I was able to actually go to the memorial and pretty powerful stuff.

1101
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,000
And we will include photos of that memorial for that person.

1102
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,000
Yeah, absolutely.

1103
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:50,000
So if you'd like to get access to that episode and all of our other bonus content, go to patreon.com.

1104
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:58,000
It takes just a few minutes to sign up and that's going to be our tiers 3 and 4 members that will have access to that exclusive content.

1105
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,000
Yeah, thanks for your support, y'all.

1106
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Yes, absolutely.

1107
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Thank you to our existing Patreon members and we will see you guys next time.

1108
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,000
Yep.

1109
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:06,000
Love you.

1110
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,000
Bye.

1111
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:17,000
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