Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Kena.
And I'm Koel.
This is kind of the mental breakdown, kind of a DAK live.
We decided to just mush them together today because we are going to recap the true crime and paranormal podcast festival 2024.
Yes, from Denver, Colorado.
We're so fortunate to attend EAD again this year and to be featured there.
And yeah, it was a good trip.
Yeah, definitely. It was a lot.
A lot of ups, lots of downs.
You know, how it happens when your adults and your brain doesn't function the way that it once did when you were young last.
So yeah, like, Kena, sorry.
What Kena said, usually on our DAK lives, we also have a third guest.
It is very minimal editing, if any at all.
And it's just really candid. It's more of like, I don't know, like a banter conversation, things like that throughout the whole episode.
So it's just raw, unedited, and fun.
Yeah, it's as the kids call soups-cash.
Soups-cash.
Or as kids, I mean us a year or two ago in the podcast, but we used to say that all the time.
Soups-cash.
Did I, yeah, soups-cash.
Did I tell you how to spell cash recently?
I think we've discussed it at the festival, actually.
C-A-S-J-E.
Cash.
Hmm.
I would say C-A-Z-H.
Cash.
Yeah, but that looks like ca-ca-s...
I don't know.
Looks like cash.
It looks like cash. It smells like cash. It might be cash.
It might be cash.
We are going to get into the breakdown of the festival, but do you want to give everyone our social media handles if it's their first time here?
Social media.
Sure, you can check us out anywhere on social media at Diagnosing a Killer, other than ex, formerly known as Twitter.
That is at Killer Diagnosis.
We also have a PayPal Venmo Cash App if you want to support us monetarily.
We also have that Patreon that gets an exclusive bonus episode once a month towards the end of the month.
Tier 1, you get ad-free mental breakdown episodes.
Tears 2, 3, and 4 get ad-free every episode.
And then tiers 3 and 4 get access to that bonus episode.
Yeah, the bonus episode's coming up pretty soon.
I'm so excited.
I don't know how you're doing, but maybe we can announce at the end of this episode?
Yeah, I think that's appropriate.
Yes, I think we typically do, maybe like a week out.
So, let's talk about it.
Which part?
Well, I actually got to Denver a few hours early.
I went with mom and dad, and the reason mom and dad were with us is because it was my birthday that weekend and I didn't want to be alone.
So, they went with us.
I went a little bit earlier in the day with them.
We got there around 1.30.
And then, Coelle and her boyfriend Cliff joined us around 10.30 that night.
Yeah, it was a little late.
Yeah, so when I showed up, we of course went to get some food and then we got logged in, not logged in, checked into the Airbnb.
Excuse me.
And we actually went over to the hotel to check everything out.
I was really eager to get into the gallery, although it didn't open until 7.00.
But there was a content creator only mixer.
And so, I was able to go to that and say hello to some people that I recognized last year.
And I wanted to wait until you got there to meet new podcasters that we didn't know because I didn't want to...
Well, one, not me with my co-host, but I didn't want to...
Oh, these people I met yesterday, all these people, here you go.
You know, you don't know them, so it's just easier to wait.
But finally, I think you were texting me and you were like, I have to know where we're at.
Because we had like a drawing of the gallery and like everything was numbered, but we didn't know what number we were.
Yeah.
And so, I walked in finally and I got our number.
And we actually happened to be like almost smackdown in the middle, which was really cool.
Yeah.
I think that, yeah, I think just to give everyone kind of a general idea,
the Denver airport is about 30, 35 minutes away from where we were actually staying and participating in the con.
The con was actually at Westminster, what, Marriott?
Yeah, I think so.
And so, our Airbnb was about 7, 8 minutes away from there, which wasn't too bad at all.
We actually had one of my dear friends and a very loyal listener, Louis,
and his mother, who was also a loyal listener and hugest merch supporter.
Oh, yeah.
And Andrea as well, which is Louis' sister.
And then Archie, which is Louis' cousin.
Yes.
And his mom is Lisa, by the way.
Yes, his mom is Lisa.
So, Lisa lives here in San Antonio with us and then Louis in San Francisco Bay Area.
I think Andrea is like San Diego Riverside.
Yeah.
And they were like 7 hours away from each other, even though they both live in California.
Louis is like, it's weird because we're all flying in and out into and from different places.
Yeah.
It was really cool to have that support.
And yeah, so we get there and then, of course, yeah, I'm stuck at the airport with Cliff.
And so, I had seen a photo of the gallery and Lisa and Lainey, who are the co-founders of the festival,
they don't tell you where you are until you get there, just out of fairness for everyone.
You know, you don't want to be like, oh, I don't want to be in the corner.
Can I switch with so-and-so?
And so, they give you a little map that's on the website and, like, kind of set it.
All the tables are numbered.
And so, I was like, when you get there, please tell me what number we want to know.
And yeah, so you and mom and dad went to the mixer.
We all went to the hotel.
Dad stayed at the bar, the hotel bar, because I think there was baseball on and we're big
baseball fans of this family.
And mom did pop into the mixer with me, but we were only there for just a little bit.
And then, we decided to head back.
You guys said that your flight was delayed, like, maybe 15, 20 minutes.
And so, I'm sorry, I think it was getting in early on the way in, the one the way out,
it was delayed.
And so, that being the case, I only had a certain amount of time.
I had packed all of, like, most all of our merch in my check bag.
So I dropped mom and dad back off at the Airbnb, grabbed the suitcase full of merch.
I only had, like, four items in there that were actually mine.
Everything else was in merch.
And then, I brought it back to the hotel.
And I had about 45 minutes to set up.
So I just kind of did the table as best I could.
Well, then I quickly realized that the merch to table ratio was not good.
And the table just so happened to be a little bit smaller than the table we had last year.
So I think I was anticipating the size that we had last year.
Well, the good news is, the reason why it was smaller and thinner was because we had
about twice as many podcasts there this year.
I will take it.
You know, it was like, we can have a little bit less space if more people can be here.
It was probably twice as many creators.
I think there was, like, 86 tables overall.
And last year, we had the tables kind of to the side of the table, like, I'm sorry, the
chairs to each side of the table.
And this year, we were able to sit behind our booth, which was really nice.
So we're chatting to the people behind us and to the left of us and to the right of
us and really sweet people.
Like, you know, we say this every year, there's a reason that we're all there.
There's some type of commonality between experiences.
And I think that's what draws us so much to true crime and advocacy and things like that
is we've all had experiences.
So to really listen to those stories again and regit to know people and meet new people
all over again was so fun.
Yeah, I think it was also really cool.
We were able to get our booth set up for the most part on Friday night.
So that Saturday morning, bright-eyed, bushy tailed, we got up, we went straight to the
festival and we were already set up.
Totally unlike last year.
Yeah.
Last year, we were a few hours late and set up late.
And we got called out.
We had, well, what, crime with my coffee was like, oh, there's those DAK girls.
They're rolling in.
They're rolling in 10 p.m. or 10 a.m. guys.
So yeah, we were able to show up and that gave us a good opportunity to start to meet
people because we didn't have to spend any time setting up on Saturday morning.
So speaking of new podcasts, we had two sets of ladies on either side of us that were really
great to our right.
I think we had a podcast called Deranged De Jure.
And they are two lawyers and they talk about anything deranged.
The De Jure, obviously, like it's a French, what is it, like jury or something?
Is that what that means?
Instead of like De Jure, like of the day.
So it's kind of like a play on words.
They were really, really cool.
And I love the expertise.
They had like their laptops out and everything during the con at that was really fun.
It was so fun.
They were working.
And then the ladies to our left, their podcast is called Dark City.
And they are doing a season podcast where every season they talk about something, they
talk about a specific city and they talk about dark stories from those cities.
And that is, I think they're doing LA for their first season.
They did LA, yeah.
As their first season.
And I don't know how many episodes they said they had.
They're just going to keep going until they feel like they're not going to.
Yeah.
They said that they had just started a few months ago, but they had been working on the
podcast for a while before they released episodes.
So those are two really off the bat, two really cool podcasts that we met.
Yeah.
And I don't think they do just true crime either.
They also do, they do missing persons report or missing persons cases, but they also do
paranormal things like they've done Cecil Hotel.
And so yeah, it's pretty cool because it's not just one angle.
It's everything interesting about the history of a city, which is cool.
Yeah.
I actually did listen to a little bit of one of their episodes the other day and it is
very history forwards.
I thought that was really interesting.
So if you like history and dark stories, that's a good podcast to listen to.
Total sidebar too.
And Kenna said that she only packed herself four or five items.
We have a uniform and I think that's a little easily explainable is that it's just black
yoga pants and one of our shirts and either vans or converse.
So very black and white, minimal color, just red, which is in our logo.
But other than that, that's all we needed to really bring for ourselves.
So I just kind of want to pepper that in.
Yeah.
I didn't like sacrifice because of the merch.
Like I only needed a few things and I had a carry on too that had my stuff as well.
It's lovely if we need to just jet set to a convention.
We just need to bring a backpack really.
We're not bringing merch.
So my manifesting crime con for next year, even though it's going to be in Denver again,
we're going to just have to go.
It's round to the north.
So yeah, that was Saturday morning.
That was pretty much Saturday morning.
And then we had, but you found out a little bit of information Friday night at the mixer,
didn't you?
Maybe about 2025.
Oh, yes.
I was like, what did I find out?
I actually found out shortly before the mixer because I got an email and it has been confirmed
that we are going to Blustin next year for the True Crime Podcast Festival 2025.
And that is actually going to just be the True Crime Podcast Festival.
The paranormal folks, as much as we love them are getting their own festival.
I'm really happy for them, but I'm sad for us because we're going to miss them.
But they are going to have their own festival called Beyond the Veil and that is going to
be held in New Orleans next September.
I'm not sure of the date, but I know that the True Crime Podcast Festival is in Boston
and I think it's the 18th through the 20th of July.
Yeah.
Yes.
So that's going to be really exciting.
And we're going to make this a destination trip because you and I have both been to Colorado
many times.
So we didn't really feel the need to like put in extra like time while we were there to
explore.
Yeah.
Although we kind of did, but next year we're definitely going to make it like a week long
trip so that we have plenty of time to explore somewhere we've never been.
Yeah.
Well, I'll talk about it in a little bit, but one of our meeting, what would you call
that?
Introductions, meeting someone was just from Generation Y.
Oh, yes.
And that was on Saturday as well.
I've been listening to Generation Y and I can say that I am obsessed.
And you don't listen to podcasts, so that's saying something.
I don't.
I love their banter and the amount of information they give.
I really set a tone for the setting, whatever year it might be or whatever town it might
be.
And they really go in depth.
I am obsessed, but I will make pull it up for her.
Sorry.
This is a moment in which we would usually pause.
Yes.
Well, while you're doing that, I know she's looking something up.
Yeah.
I was a little starstruck meeting Justin.
Unfortunately, Aaron, the other person of Generation Y couldn't be there, but we did
get to meet Justin.
And I actually caught a little bit of his panel right before we met him and they did
conspiracies of the Denver Airport and things like that.
But I wanted to just say hello and I like his podcast and it's admirable that they've
been podcasting for 12 years.
And then we ended up having a 30-minute long conversation with him, just the nicest guy.
Soup's cash.
Yeah, soup's cash.
30-minute long conversation with Justin from not only Generation Y, but the peripheral.
Just like a really, really down-to-earth guy, he knows how many followers he has on Instagram
and that never once showed.
It wasn't like, oh, how I like, you know who I am.
You know, like he was another dude.
Unfortunately, we have seen that before with podcasts.
We have.
But yeah, I didn't know who he was, so I didn't really care.
So I was just like, oh, hey, what's up?
And you're like, this guy.
Like it's Justin.
Like, don't know who that is.
You're like, I know too many Justin's.
That's so true.
So they covered on Generation Y the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum.
And it's in Boston.
And they covered this and released it June 16th.
So this is before they would know that it's in Boston next year.
So interesting.
I want to see how close it is to where we're going to be at.
It's going to be at the Double Tree, really close to Salem.
So mom and I have already decided we're going to make a spooky trip.
Oh yeah, definitely.
I'd like to go as well.
No, you're not invited.
Oh, OK.
Well, another thing that I'll just go with the paranormal people then.
Another thing that I thought was funny was like, we crossed paths with Justin last year
at the festival 2023 because he was there with the peripheral.
I didn't even realize.
I didn't even put the two and two together until this year that he was the same guy.
So I don't know if we met him or not, but I definitely got some of his merch last year.
That's cool.
But yeah, that was really cool.
And then we of course saw Jason from Santa May be a criminal and he has a new podcast
out called Missing in a Moment where he covers missing persons cases and he releases the episodes
on the anniversary of the missing persons date, which I think is really cool.
And he does that with his partner, Carly.
And she is a really, very, very nice person.
And of course we got to see some survivors, John and Sean, they did great on the panel.
They are a who.
And they were just, I mean, networking.
You talk about someone that wants to network.
I love it.
They're awesome.
And I was telling them how excited I was for them.
Their whole look, like their logo, like I love that purple.
It's so, it pops.
And the whole like really leaning into the Sin City type vibe.
The poker chips that they have as their business card essentially is such a unique idea.
And they had individual bags of like actual chips, potato chips.
Oh, chips and chips.
Yeah, that was fun.
And like every once in a while we just look over at their booth and we just, everybody
would just lock eyes at this guy.
They were right across from us.
Wave.
Honestly, you'd think they had like a whole damn marketing team.
Like they're really that good at it.
Like they're all over social media and everything.
Lots of fun.
We got some really cool little 360 photos with them too.
Got to see my friend CJ from Beyond the Rainbow podcast.
CJ covers cases from the LGBTQ plus community to raise awareness about that.
Yeah, and we ended up, sorry, we ended up doing a merch swap with CJ as well.
And so we got some really cool shirts.
I got a shirt that says, life's too beautiful to be hidden in a closet.
Yes.
And then the one that I have has a bunch of different skeletons in like rainbow order
and it says no bones about it.
Love is love.
I love that.
She had a lot of really cute designs, but I wanted one that I could wear to work and
I work with kiddos.
So obviously I couldn't have any euphemisms or like in new windows on this shirt.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, because there was some that said like, I don't know, something about cock.
No, it was foul language.
It wasn't anything about cock.
I think some of them might have said something about cock.
Oh God.
Hey, you know what, whatever.
There's going to be a warning on this one, explicit language.
Yeah, there's going to have to be foul language.
Foul language.
There we go.
Who else do we meet?
Oh my gosh.
I have to talk about the sluice.
Oh yeah.
So there's this new podcast.
I say new podcasts because they just started releasing episodes like last year, I want
to say, but they worked on this for like two whole years.
I started binging them like a couple weeks before the con and it's a retired FBI agent
and a former investigative journalist.
And oh my God, like the way they set this up, it's like soups professional, obviously.
It's like you hear like Katie, who's like the investigative journalist, she's like,
she does the voice and everything.
And then M, who is the FBI agent, goes in like more detail in the story.
And I was like really a starstruck.
I was looking for them like all night on Friday and I couldn't find them.
And then I saw them on Saturday morning because their booth was like behind us into the right
a little bit.
But they were so networky as well.
They were never like, well not never, but they were hardly together at their booth.
And so I was waiting for an opportunity to go up when both of them were there.
And at one point I was like, fuck it.
Like I can't, I can't keep thinking about this.
Like I'm nervous.
So I just locked up and started talking to M and then eventually Katie made her way over.
They never really sat down.
They were kind of, oops, sorry.
They never really sat down there.
They're kind of always in front of their booth, catching people as they walk by, which was
really cool.
Really smart, honestly.
We were fucking sitting down for the most part.
Come to us, please.
Yeah.
No, but they were really cool.
Y'all should check them out.
Tooth Sleuths.
Tooth Sleuths is the name of the podcast.
And they have koozies that say Sleuth Juice.
Love it.
Yeah, that's a really cool concept.
And definitely like if you're looking for that more professional like 2020 sounding podcast,
that's definitely them.
For sure.
Cool.
Susto.
Love Aiden.
If y'all don't listen to Susto's podcast, please do.
Please do.
It is very like cultura heavy with like the spookiness and the lore, the folklore.
And it is, he did a reading and then he opened it up for Q&A to ask questions or, you know,
he went through his whole research process and it was really fun.
He also did Girl Who Dance with the Devil, which was really interesting.
And he said it's one of his favorite tales.
If you haven't listened to it, go listen to it right now.
Okay.
Okay, she's just cutting back.
And he said that it's one of his favorites because every, you know, this has been translated
through different cultures and different, you know, parts of the world.
But in every version, there is one constant and it is a girl who did, who dabbled with
bad things or a girl who was tempted by temptation and took that and ended up dancing with a
devil, you know?
Yeah.
And how she was, it's a girl who's breaking the rules.
Yeah.
And it's a warning, it's a heed, you know, a heed to not break the rules or bend the rules
as a girl.
You need to be a good person, yeah.
You're a good girl.
And I think that's the first part of his panel because I was stuck in the bathroom without
toilet paper, but you've rescued me.
And then we came to the end of it.
I was like, I can't leave right now.
I know.
Because like the lights had just come up and then people were asking questions.
Yeah.
And I was like, I wanted to ask my question, but I didn't want to like get up and leave.
I was just on TikTok, it's fine.
But when we got back in there and then he said, I have time for, excuse me, another story.
And then that's what he told that story.
He like, on beyond, because I didn't see it the first time.
So like the lights went off and you had this like fake fire candle that like look at it
was in the back.
It was literally like courage the cow.
It was like, it was a dog and stole me.
No, it's so good.
Like, and the thing is, like, it was so impressive.
He didn't stutter like one time.
No, but he, there was no, I'm saying like, like none of that.
It was just perfect.
Obviously he was reading a script and I'm not right now, but it was the delivery delivery.
It was awesome.
I bet Aiden does minimal editing.
I bet he does no editing.
He does no editing.
He gets it right the first time every time.
He's just perfect.
He is.
So go check out Aiden and Sisto podcast.
We actually tagged him in our post about TCPF because we have a photo with him.
So go look at his cute face and we're going to meet up with him soon because he's only
in Austin and we're super close.
So we're really talking about going to one of his live shows or even just going up there
for, I don't know, the day.
And if you're in the New Orleans area next September, you can also catch him at, what's
the podcast?
Beyond the Vale.
I don't want to say broken Vale.
We could definitely go to that.
I feel like it's not that far.
It's nine hours.
It's not that bad.
We could fly.
It's like 80 bucks.
I don't know how to fly.
Don't let your arms get tired.
Don't talk to me without my morning coffee.
Oh my gosh.
So yeah, we definitely wanted to go to some panels this year, which I think we did a good
job at.
I definitely got a good grasp on like what a panel is.
It's actually not as like daunting as I thought it was, especially when there's multiple people
up there.
So we may have to do one next year.
Maybe.
We'll see.
In Boston.
And then Saturday night was the VIP only mixer.
And that was a very good time, but we were so tired.
I mean, it was like at 7 p.m.
We had been there all day and just our voices were tired.
It was hot outside and we walked for lunch.
Yeah, we did.
It was fine.
No, it was great.
But yeah, just a long, long day and we knew we still had to get up the next morning and
kind of do not do it all over again.
But you know, we were going to be back the next morning.
And so we decided to just call it at like 7.38.
We did get to talk to some VIPs.
I passed out our bracelets.
We made special bracelets just for them.
And then Saturday night, I mean, we pretty much just went straight to bed when we got
back.
Normally we would hang out and, you know, do something like watch a movie or something
at the place.
That was my toe.
Toe?
Yeah.
Cliff and I are just, we're at season 11 now of Van Rappump Rules.
Oh gosh.
And, you know, when I was watching season 11, when it first came out earlier this year,
it was a lot of me talking about it, you know, because of Scandival and all this stuff.
And it was a lot of me having to explain, pausing every two seconds, being like, well, the
reason she said this is because of this and this person has a history of this.
And he's like, babe, I can just watch it.
Really?
Okay.
And so now we're caught up.
But I think we've watched maybe two episodes, one or two episodes that night.
Yeah.
Early bedtime.
Yeah.
1030 maybe.
Sunday morning, we got up and we went, we did actually have a couple of hours, but we
got there and it kind of seemed like a lot of people were packing up.
I know people were flying out that day.
And so we hung out for maybe an hour or two.
And then we decided to call it maybe 30 minutes earlier than the festival ending because there
wasn't a lot of people.
There wasn't a lot of people and it was also my birthday.
And I was like, yo, love you guys.
But we got stuffed and do we said our goodbyes.
We got all of our merch and stuff.
We got like another little goodie bag full of merch.
And we went and picked up Louie because Lisa, Andrea and Archie all had earlier flights
than Louie on Sunday.
He wanted to hang out a little bit.
So we went and scooped him up and then we went to originally we were going to go to
this little kind of brunchy place and that didn't work out.
It was like a 30 or something minute wait.
And then y'all were so funny.
I'm an ass.
Okay.
So like I have very particular, she gave me eyes just now.
Oh, I keep kicking this thing.
I have a very particular, I don't know what you call it, like sensitivity, food sensitivities,
I suppose.
I avoid certain foods like chicken and dairy.
It gets weird though.
It's like green beans asparagus.
It sounds like I can't eat anything, but it works for my body.
It's the reason I've lost a lot of weight over the last two years.
And I feel better just in general.
I don't have tummy issues, you know, things like that.
So I was looking forward to eating this place because they had a vegan quinoa bowl and it
looked really yummy.
And so I was really excited.
It's kind of like, well, there's a place over there.
What was it called?
Oh, not knockouts, but it was called...
It was like a play on some boxing term.
Oh, it was called a bout time, like B-O-U-T.
That's right.
I don't know how that's a bout.
Like a bout is a fight.
Yeah, so I had like boxing gloves and I was like, God, I don't want to eat greasy bar
food.
I was like, it's about time we eat.
I'm fucking hungry.
I was not having it.
She was so annoyed by me.
But I was also like, it's my birthday, so we're going.
Yeah.
I was like, I don't have my mind though.
I didn't say it out loud because I'm not rude.
You should have.
It's my birthday.
Maybe.
So we went over and I was like, whatever.
You know, I've been good-ish, although I have one of those Jimmy Dean breakfast sandwiches
the day before.
My stomach was just not having it.
And see, that's what happens when I cheat.
Anyways, we go in and the place is clean.
Very clean.
It's like, it smelled clean and it didn't look like anything really on the outside.
I'm thinking this is going to be like, it's going to smell like stale smoke and like there's
going to be a pool table in the corner, which there was.
But it just, it was very clean, very clean.
The waitress immediately was like, sit wherever you want.
Yeah.
Or bartender rather.
And so she was, she had patrons at the bar and then she also had us.
And I remember at one time at one point it was like her partner and then her son came
in.
Yeah.
And her daughter too.
And her daughter, oh my God, and that little, excuse me, I got bit clipped.
That little boy was so cute.
So we look at the menu and we're like, okay, this is, this looks like good shit.
It was an impressive array of items.
It was.
And so what did you have?
You had the...
I got a patty melt and I shouldn't have.
Oh, that's right.
I did.
Because when we were talking about food sensitivities, I don't eat bread.
Yeah.
And I did that whole weekend and I fucking...
She died.
I did.
I had the, what did I have?
You had a po-boy.
Oh, that's right.
I had a shrimp po-boy and then shrimp was so, like there was so much that I couldn't close
the sandwich.
It was really good.
And then Cliff and Louie had Monte Cristo sandwiches that were fricking massive.
They were huge.
They both couldn't finish their plate.
And then, oh my God, and even the tater tots were like crunchy and yummy.
So if y'all are in the Denver area, check out Bout Time.
Yeah.
I think it's technically in Arvada.
Arvada.
Yes.
But it was really, really, really good.
And it was, it kind of had like a sports bar feel, but it felt very family friendly.
It did not feel like a bar bar.
Yeah, for sure.
It was nice.
Yeah, we had a good day and then we, I mean, we were so tired.
We got back to the Airbnb, but then mom, dad and I had to go run some errands.
So we went and bought, we were going to do steaks at the Airbnb that's what I requested
for din.
So we went to the meat market to get steaks.
It was fricking beautiful steaks.
They were so big.
I was like, how are we going to eat all this meat, which we didn't end up eating it.
You said that you had to go to a meat market.
Was that specifically intended because you were looking for a certain kind of meat?
Yes, but also we ordered groceries beforehand from a place called King's Super.
I know you know what it is, but for the listeners.
And mom had said that the meat, they didn't have the, yeah, I don't think they had the
cut.
I think they only had like ground meat and stuff.
Right by.
Yeah.
So when we wanted like big old boy rib eyes.
That's interesting.
So we got those and then mom and dad wanted to buy to eat.
So we stopped and got wings and flashing back right now in my mind.
I remember like the entire day on my birthday, I had anxiety and it was like underlying.
Like it wasn't like I was having a panic attack or anything, but it was like super underlying
every couple of minutes.
I would feel like a physical sensation, whether it was like a heart palpitation or a feeling
in my chest that I didn't like.
And involuntarily I would get a huge wave of adrenaline and then it would make my anxiety
start all over and I couldn't get past it and it was really frustrating.
But I was like, I don't know.
Like I always kind of get like birthday nerves.
I don't know why.
So I just kind of tried to ignore it and I was able to kind of move past it and then
we all know this is a non healthy coping mechanism.
But when I started drinking some wine for my birthday, it ended up going away.
But we're leading into the story where that was not the right choice.
Okay.
So Zach and Erin came down from Fort Collins and for our listeners out there, Zach and
Kenna have known each other since elementary school.
Like second grade.
Wild.
And so it was lovely spending time with, I have never met Erin.
Oh you haven't?
No I haven't.
She's lovely.
She's great.
And I love their story.
It's like, it was like, I don't know, I just felt like a distant aunt or something.
It was like, so tell me how did you meet?
Yeah.
I just, oh gosh, they've been together for four or five years and it's just wild.
Married for four or five years, which is crazy.
Yeah.
That's my best, my best guy friend.
I've known him for 25 years.
Which is crazy.
Yeah.
But yeah.
And that.
Click and Zach got along, which was cool.
Yeah.
They chatted about work and all that stuff.
So I'm starting to do the calculation in my head.
I have not known him for 25 years.
I've known him for like, I don't know, I met one at 20 years.
I met one when we were eight, 21 years.
Well, there you go.
But yeah, that was a really good night and I got my favorite wine in the world and I
drank quite a bit of it and what?
We didn't talk about the bunnies.
Oh yeah.
There's so many bunnies everywhere.
They're like, they're like, like here in Texas, squirrels are everywhere during the
day and like neighborhoods and stuff.
Yeah.
Even at night, they're like night squirrels.
Like they're just running around, rolling in dirt.
Like they're so cute.
They're so small.
Yeah.
They had like little, cotton tail bunnies and there was one in our backyard and we, like
they're like, they look like they're all babies.
They do.
Yeah.
And they're all so cute.
And yeah, we really enjoyed that and Zach was like, oh, they're pests because he lived
there for a few years and I was like, oh, I hate them.
I'm like, you're a Texas boy born and raised.
You should know that we love bunnies.
We don't see them ever.
Yeah.
I just don't even remember like, you know, in the previous times I've been in Denver,
I don't remember there being bunnies.
But maybe you were too close into the city.
Well, I did go in March and it was cold.
I don't know if that makes a difference.
I'm not sure.
Tell us.
Listeners.
Yeah, but we had a good night.
Erin had never seen Happy Gilmore.
And so I made her watch it and I fell asleep about a quarter of the way through.
Classic birthday passing out early.
Well, then the next morning I kind of set myself up for failure because we had to get
up early.
We kind of rushed out.
I didn't pack the night before.
It's kind of a rushy morning and we left the Airbnb.
We went to get some lunch.
Originally, me, Coel, and Cliff's flight was not set until like 9 p.m. and we were
going to come home late.
But mom and dad had gotten a flight at like four.
And we decided that we were going to try to do something between, you know, having to
drop mom and dad at the airport.
And after we ate brunch, I guess, I...
Where do we eat?
Oh, we ate at that little place.
Oh my gosh.
And they had the gravy with the...
It was a really...
It was like Mexican fusion food.
Yeah.
Because remember they had like breakfast burritos and stuff?
It was yummy.
This was like downtown Denver now.
Yeah.
We've moved.
We've traveled.
So we drove into town to get lunch.
I had a coconut matcha.
It was so good.
It was pretty good.
I had chilequiles.
It was really hot in there though.
And then mom wanted to do this wildlife kind of like drive.
There's like these giant open trails where you can drive and maybe see some bison or any
kind of wildlife.
We saw a lot of prairie dogs on the way.
Oh my gosh.
There's just everywhere, just like the squirrels or just like the bunnies.
But yeah, I just wanted to share with the listeners because we've been talking about
this amazing weekend that we had and all these great things that you see us do on social
media.
But reminder that we are all human and we're not perfect all the time or ever.
And that anxiety that had been building up in me for some reason just unleashed on Monday
and it got so bad.
I tell you if I was by myself, I would have gone to the ER because I really felt like
there was something wrong.
You were driving too.
I was driving when it first happened and I had to pull over and Cliff had to drive and
I completely lost it.
And a McDonald's parking lot or a Wendy's.
Crying in a handicap spot because I couldn't find another spot.
I'm sorry.
It's not funny but like yeah.
And then yeah, I just couldn't get past it and it got so bad that I ended up having to
change my flight and I came home early because it was that bad.
So I just want to share that not for anybody's pity or anybody to feel bad but I want to
just make everyone aware that yes, we do these things and we see all these great posts on
social media but people are real people at the end of the day and everybody struggles
with certain things that you just don't see.
Yeah, I think that you know-
Oh my god, it's about to rain.
Did you hear that thunder?
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's been raining every evening but I like it because it gets really cool at night.
Yeah I think it is important to remind ourselves that like even when we put ourselves in situations
like going to Denver and being featured in a festival and then having the pressure of
your birthday and then having to make sure that we're eating.
You know, I mean just eating and taking care of ourselves and unfortunately it doesn't
matter how many little breaks you take.
Sometimes you need a really big break.
Otherwise you will break and that's you know, it's just one of those reminders again.
We tend to want to as humans just have it all right.
We want to have everything we want to have you know, for me personally I want to be a
good mom, I want to be a good partner, I want to be a good daughter, I also want to be a
good employee, I also want to be you know good at this podcast, I also want to be a
good student and those things alone even saying those things-
I'm like I got overwhelmed for you just listening to it right?
But that's just part of my life.
There are a million other influences that happen every day that I don't have control over.
And we forget, we forget that just because what we're doing, we're doing this right
now in the moment but I'm also thinking about everything else I need to do tonight before
I go to bed.
Me too.
And it's, we're not alone in those thoughts.
Everybody has those thoughts but it's the time that we don't, the time that we're not
taking to ourselves, it can greatly affect our thinking that we're participating in
our day.
Absolutely and you know this was kind of reminiscent of something that happened a few weeks ago.
I had, Koella and I had a big weekend and it was kind of the same thing.
The next morning we woke up, rush, rush, rush, get ready, get on the road and about halfway
through the drive it was a three hour drive but about halfway through I had to pull over
and let you drive because my brain just went into overdrive and was like whoa, like you
need to like slow down you know and the fact that my brain couldn't relax because I was
driving.
Yeah.
I think next time I just won't drive.
The next morning I think I could really help.
But I was making a joke earlier about you know using alcohol to numb the anxiety and
like I have a habit of doing that and so since then I know it's only been a week but I've
been really cognizant of how I'm managing my anxiety and how I'm approaching it and
I've actually been really good the last week.
I haven't really felt anything like that anywhere near that you know because I've been really
cognizant of what I'm doing and how much I'm drinking and you know just other things
that can affect anxiety.
Yeah.
I you know going back to Vaner Pump rules, La La Kent has said you know she's been I
don't know how many years sober now, six and she's said you know her life is being
filmed every damn day you know well on the on season and there's so many instances where
you see her in these really like anxiety you know these really anxious moments that she's
having and she says my anxiety attacks are a hundred percent alcohol driven and she
recognized that and so she stopped she stopped drinking completely but yeah it can be that
it's it's brought on by the alcohol.
You might choose to numb it with the alcohol but eventually it comes back around being
the alcohol.
Well you're gonna have to stop drinking at some point yeah and that's what it that's
what it fucks you up and that's honestly Monday like it got like my anxiety got so bad the
thought didn't even cross my mind.
If I this will go away if I have a drink it was like no like I'm just gonna postpone
this feeling.
I need to get through it and not try to get away from it just to let it happen again later.
Yeah but yeah it happens to everybody y'all and just know that you're not alone and your
feelings and you can always you know Google I know there's plenty of resources I mean
I literally did like I was searching online like how the hell to get out of this because
and unfortunately the way out is through it you know sometimes so everyone's gonna handle
things differently but you're not alone.
My solution is always to cry.
I have to make myself cry because for whatever reason it regulates my breathing so it's like
I'm inhaling more you know oxygen and stuff like that and that ends up calming me down
you know so everyone does things different right.
I just cry involuntarily.
I cry out of frustration.
But yeah the overall the weekend was absolutely incredible we met a lot of great people and
we cannot wait for next year we have plenty of time to plan for it but we were very excited.
We have inquired about crime con again fingers crossed that we get accepted to go to crime
con that would be really cool.
So Kenna said that she got her flight early so it allowed a little bit of free time if
you will for me and Cliff to go to the Columbine Memorial and it was really powerful it was
really heavy the design is insane because there is this wall that has quotes from people
shortly after the tragedy of you know students, faculty, parents of students that said these
really powerful things like I didn't know kids could kill kids.
And you know talking about how you know when parents said that their child had a 4.0 GPA
before and after the tragedy but the difference was is that after the tragedy this child was
paralyzed had to learn how to write and speak again and still graduated with a 4.0.
It's just really powerful words but what's interesting is on one side of it on the opposite
side of this because it's round there is this and if you go to our Instagram you'll see
the picture the waterfall things like the fountains it's built in such a way that when
you're reading those things on the opposite side it creates a sound bath so you hear the
water from the other side of the memorial as you're reading these things and I don't
know I'm sure people out there do know this but for those of you who don't when you have
dreams of water or you know there's something very cleansing about water it's like when
the rain washes something away and so to have that kind of subconscious thought that you're
being cleansed at the same time you're reading these things yes it's very heavy stuff but
you're almost it's it's almost washing these things away but not forgetting but it's just
not as you don't take it with you yeah I think is the best way to say it so they also had
the plaques for the victims and family statements that came along with those as well yeah I
really really wanted to go with you guys I was pretty bummed but I'm glad that you guys
were able to go and experience that I mean it's gotta been that's got to have been really
moving and it's not that you were able to share those photos with everyone yeah it's
set on a hill so where when you look to the right of you you're technically on top of
the memorial and to the left of you is the back of the school so you see both in real
time and it's it's really interesting yeah that's definitely really strong image so on
top of that we also went to go find the Aurora Memorial and that is actually in the town
of Aurora's police department parking lot I want to call it like a parking lot but there's
a walking trail back there and so there's all these like donations or memorials to other
people prominent figures in Aurora in the town of Aurora and it's kind of like a mini
botanical garden as well and those images are also on the D.I.K. I sent you those too
right?
I sent yeah whatever 7 you sent me as I posted the birds yeah so there's a rock there next
to a bench that has you know that's dedicated to the victims and survivors and the victims
families.
Well you just briefly touch on what happened in Aurora because in case some people don't
know.
You're right so James Holmes was a or is rather someone who deeply in my opinion struggles
with mental health issues he perpetrated a mass murder a shooting in the Aurora AMC
theaters in 2012 and many people were shot and killed it was at a midnight showing I
don't think it was at midnight but it was the release of the Dark Knight movie.
Like the first one of the first showings.
Yeah and there's all these like interesting perspectives of he thought he was the Joker
you know he's some anti vigilante type thing and but yeah very interesting case that happened
on July 20th of 2012.
We're gonna cover that which would have been two days ago anniversary since this comes
out yeah.
Yeah well I'm really glad like I said that you were able to go visit those places not
that we're like saying like ooh we're gonna go like it's a weird you know but it's like
it's important to visit places like that and understand what what happened the history
of what happened there you know similarly to going to visit where the World Trade Center
was you know.
Yeah it's it was so.
Or the tower excuse me.
I mean breathtaking is the only way I can say it it was the Columbine Memorial is nestled
in this beautiful park where there's like kids and families playing I'm gonna get the
Clint just talking about it you know and maybe they know what happened there maybe they don't
maybe do these people come to enjoy the park and reflect on what happened no they're there
just to enjoy the day and it was a beautiful day we were there and it's just I mean it
was almost it felt like like a battleground because like the best way to describe it it
felt like like people died here but like time has just healed yeah so much well it reminds
me like a little bit of like the Alamo you know the Alamo is a site of a huge battle
you know the biggest in our history yeah and it's gorgeous like out there that lawn and
everything like everyone around it like it's beautiful and it's just I think that for Cliff
and I just you know remembering that time and like how school changed yeah it's just
it's just wild like and I told him I was like I don't know if I want to go you know and
we're it's gonna be a drive and he goes you're regret not going yeah I think so you know
when the next time you're gonna be in Denver is you know so yeah I don't take it back and
I'm glad that we went yeah me too sorry I think that's about gonna do it for this episode
yeah is there anything else that you want to talk about I would like to say who I'm
covering for my patreon yes I would love to hear that thank you guys just before you say
that for listening to this recap episode because the true crime period of a podcast festival
has significantly impacted us yeah not only with listeners and you know our content in
our podcast but just with our friends in the community that we've we've built ourselves
into because of it so just a huge shout out to Lainey and Lisa for including us for a
second year and we cannot wait to see next year hopefully it's gonna be three times as
big as it was last year so yeah I agree I think that it it reminds us you know as many
deep breaths as we didn't take that weekend it does kind of hit that refresh button where
we're like damn like we do love what we do and we love these people for doing what they
do and it just it it kicks you in the ass all over again it reignites that flame just
a little bit passion it's cool yes it does stay tuned oh god yeah okay I want to hear
what you're doing so for my patreon episode I'm going to be covering James Holmes oh
are you oh that's funny not funny haha but we were literally just talking about it okay
cool so that'll be a really good well you just kind of heard a little snapshot of that
so if you want to get the full detailed story again our patreon members tiers 3 and 4 will
have access to that in you know at the end of this month and it'll be no content warning
you know we we usually don't really edit very much on those either kind of like this episode
but obviously obviously a case yes so if you want to join those patreon members go to patreon.com
slash diagnosing a killer just takes a few minutes to sign up again that's going to be
tiers 3 and 4 that will have access to that I was content sorry I was also working
at a theater when this happened so there is a little bit of my own personal story in there
as well and fuck the dark night it was the worst the worst I hate that movie I'll never
watch it oh gosh again I like that movie no it's fine it's just Trish can tell you it
was awful well I think that just about does it for this podcast episode what do you think
yeah I'm hungry okay well we will see you guys on Thursday with another case and we'll
talk to you later love you bye