Hello! Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm tired of being sweaty and hot.
My name is Ka'el.
And I'm Kanna. And I also have a raging cold sword.
It hurts when I smile. Ow!
Good thing it's not my case.
I won't be smiling.
We don't have air conditioning at my store right now.
And it is hot. Hot, hot, hot.
I haven't told you this yet.
But today I was at work and our air conditioning went out
and they sent everyone home within 30 minutes.
And you've been working with that AC flex.
Months.
I went home early today because they see you.
You bitch.
They've changed our hours which is fine.
I felt guilty though. I was like, it wasn't even that hot.
I was like, I'm fine.
I was telling Kanna that with how hot it is, it's so hard to think.
And so I was trying to write a little bit on my break.
And nothing was coming to me.
I was just staring blankly into my phone because it's just oppressive.
It's pretty wicked hot down here.
I think it's funny just based on location because in Michigan
they don't have air conditioner in a lot of places.
They just have heaters.
Same thing in Europe.
Their heaters are so nice too because they don't get...
It's really annoying turning on the heater for the first time
in the winter months because it smells like sulfur.
It smells like dust.
It smells like burnt dust but it's just dry heat here.
But for some reason in Michigan it just feels toasty.
It feels nice.
It's cozy.
I think they just have a different heating thing maybe.
Maybe so.
I don't know.
Any news?
I don't think so.
We did get three Patreon members recently.
So just a big thank you to Brittany, Jennifer, and Tara.
You guys are awesome and I'm super excited for you all to listen to the new bonus episodes.
If anybody is unfamiliar, we do have a Patreon.
We have four tiers there.
Our tier one peeps will get ad-free mental breakdowns every week.
Tears two, three, and four will get ad-free every episode that we release.
Tears three and four only will get additional bonus episodes.
That's once a month at the end of the month.
There's super gory, no content warning.
Just right to the point, no banter, nothing.
You guys know what you signed up for.
There's about 12 of those out right now.
We have another one coming up soon.
If you would like access to those bonus episodes, go ahead and go over to patreon.com.
It's slash diagnosing a killer.
It takes just a few seconds to sign up and it really makes a big difference in our show.
Yeah, that's some gruesome, unedited content right there, folks.
Absolutely.
Yeah, for sure.
You know what we're about and you want to hear, well, really we don't edit them at all.
We don't.
Yeah, it's also a lot of us giggling and stuff like that too.
And a huge thank you to our current Patreon supporters.
You guys are awesome.
Yeah, for sure.
And you're getting those free goodies coming your way very soon.
So keep an eye out in your post.
Absolutely.
Speaking of free goodies, we are less than a month out from the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival.
That is in Denver, Colorado from the 12th through the 14th.
It's my birthday weekend.
Come out and hang out with us and come see us at a...
What's the beer?
Butte Scratcha.
What's the...
It's a family guy bit, but instead of cold beer, he's in the stands like, butte Scratchas.
Butte Scratchas.
Selling butte Scratchas.
Yeah.
I like cold beer.
Anyway, come see us at the festival.
You guys have a few weeks to get your tickets and we are so excited to see everyone.
Yeah.
Not a stressful topic at all.
Anything else?
I don't think so.
I think we're good.
Yeah, check us out anywhere on social media at Diagnosing a Killer, other than ex formerly known as Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis.
Email us, Venmo us, PayPal us, Cash App us.
Yeah, if you want, at Diagnosing a Killer really makes a difference in the show and it helps us get out some additional content as well quicker.
Yeah, for sure.
All right, I'm excited to see what you have.
Are you ready?
Yes.
I hope it's not the person that I've been researching for the last hour.
Is it a lady?
No.
Okay.
Well then we're good.
Do you have a lady?
Have you been watching the Jinx season 2?
No, I haven't.
I watched all of it.
I binged it and it's so good.
I haven't even gotten through the first one.
Rest in distress.
Yeah, I'll have to finish it at some point.
Today we're going to be talking about Andrea Yates.
Oh, shit, yeah.
Not yeah, but like, sorry.
Oh, fuck yeah.
I honestly don't know the story.
I just know like the name.
I've probably heard the story, but it's been a while, so I'm excited to get your take on it.
It's pretty interesting, so we're going to get into it.
Oh, and just a reminder, we do not do content warnings at the beginning of the episode any
longer for each other.
By the time you hear this or this portion or whatever, there's going to be a content
warning just recorded later and then input in here so that Canada doesn't know anything
about the story, it makes for a way better genuine reaction for sure.
Content warning, this episode contains topics of religion, postpartum depression, major
depressive disorder, self harm, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, and ultimately child murder.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember that your mental health comes first and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Andrea Pia Kennedy was born at July 2, 1964 to parents Judah Kohler, who immigrated from
Germany, and Andrew Kennedy, who was a first generation American, Irish American.
Andrea was born in Houston, Texas, and by the time Andrea came along, she had already had
four older siblings, Patrick, Michelle, Brian, and Andrew, Junior.
Andrea's home life was pretty unremarkable.
The family was raised Roman Catholic in a traditional home setting.
However, Andrea began showing signs of mental struggles at an early age.
She started struggling with her body image, which developed into an eating disorder by
her adolescence, and she was often depressed.
It is not clear whether Andrea intentionally self harmed.
However, by age 17, she was telling high school friends that she had often dealt with suicidal
thoughts.
Andrea attended Millby High School in East Houston, and by all accounts, she appeared to
be very successful in most anything she tackled academically.
She was the captain of the swim team and was an officer in the National Honor Society.
Andrea would even finish school as valedictorian of her graduating class.
After high school, Andrea set her sights on college.
She enrolled in a two-year nursing program at the University of Houston and would eventually
transfer to the University of Texas Health Science Center in Houston.
She graduated with a BSN in 1986.
Immediately, she began working as an RN or a registered nurse at the University of Texas
MD Anderson Cancer Center.
With all of her focus solely on schooling and working, Andrea never left much time for dating
or romantic interests.
For Andrea, she almost seemed to flourish solo.
However, with her life mostly stable, she opted to explore the dating world.
She had a man at age 23, and the two seemed to mesh well, however, this romance was short-lived.
And unfortunately, Andrea would take the breakup extremely hard.
She spiraled into a deep depression, and once again, Andrea told others that she was struggling
with suicidal thoughts.
Andrea would not seek professional help, but she did try to pick herself up on her own.
Do we know how successful that is?
Yeah.
Andrea was living in an apartment complex on the southeast side of Houston in 1989, where
she would often swim in the community pool.
One day, while Andrea was lounging and swimming at the pool, she would meet a man who would
change the course of her life forever.
Oh no.
Dun dun dun.
Boop boop boop.
A young man by the name of Rusty approached Andrea and struck up a conversation when he
realized that she was a good swimmer.
You're a real good swimmer.
Yeah, you.
What the marms do.
Rusty would later say that Andrea loved water, and that she looked more graceful in it than
out of it.
Okay.
Russell Rusty Yates was one of five children who grew up in the suburbs of Nashville, Tennessee,
and the family was raised in a traditionally religious household.
Not sure if it was evangelistic or evangelism, Catholicism, or Methodist.
I saw very differing things, but the point is that he was raised very religiously.
I was going to try to help you on that first one, but I don't know how to pronounce it
first, so just let me do it.
Evangelistic?
Evangelism, I mean, maybe.
It's just evangelism, right?
Yeah.
Evangelism.
Vandalism.
He got really into vandalism.
Yeah, that was his religion.
Just a total 180.
He became a high school football star, and when Rusty was granted an athletic scholarship,
he opted to move to Alabama, attending Auburn University.
Some time during his schooling, Rusty became disenchanted with athletics and decided to
focus on a Bachelor's of Applied Science.
While walking through the campus one day, Rusty met a man by the name of Michael Warnecke.
Michael Warnecke, nicknamed Mike War, is a very outspoken religious missionary who would
often go to college campuses screaming through a megaphone that students were damned and
going to hell unless they repent and all that good stuff, right?
We've all seen him.
We've seen him.
I like that lady with the margaritas.
She's like, one margarita, she's gonna want to kiss you, and all the frat boys are like,
yeah!
Oh my god.
Two margaritas, she might even take her top off, and they're like, yeah!
It's so funny.
Three margaritas, and she's like, yeah!
Like it just keeps going.
That's so good.
Oh, it's so funny.
That's a good one.
I don't remember if that was Vine, TikTok, or like, I don't know.
Either way.
So within the week, Rusty had gotten some pamphlets from this guy, Michael, and Rusty
was emailing Michael, and the two kind of began a back and forth about religion, and
Michael would eventually take Rusty kind of under his wing, almost like he was his
mentor.
Great.
Great, great stuff.
Michael said about meeting Rusty for the first time, quote, I was preaching on the campus,
he was a typical college kid, had good grades.
It was kind of cool because there was like this understanding between us that there
was hypocrisy and religion.
That was the foundation for our relationship, end quote.
Rusty would graduate in 1987, and before too long he sets his sights on Houston, Texas,
home of NASA.
Rusty would apply to be and be hired as a senior systems engineer, making about $80,000
a year, which is the equivalent of because this was the 80s, and it's been long enough
that there is actually a conversion.
It's about $200,000 a year.
Damn, that's really good.
Starting, not starting, but I guess like first year of college.
Yeah.
It's really good.
How many pounds sterling is that, you ask?
It is 156,414 pounds.
Wow.
That's a lot.
All this time he was consistently contacting Michael Warnecke.
Being a Christian man and by the suggestion of Michael, Rusty quickly found a local church
and even began volunteering regularly, really entrenching himself into this congregation.
Rusty was pretty much an established young man.
He had almost everything he could want besides a partner to share it with.
The lonely man.
He's just so nice.
He meets the moidera.
All this to give some wonderful woman.
He's just a nice guy.
Why do you think he's nice?
I don't understand.
He's just what the assholes.
They just want the assholes.
The only one.
Whoa.
Just turning the, turning the Elliot Roger real quick.
By the time Rusty met Andrea, he believed that this was destiny.
He has everything any woman could ever want.
And she can swim.
Like a mermaid.
It's awesome.
The two had hit it off and when Rusty told Michael of his new relationship, Michael told
Rusty to be cautious and not to jump into marriage right away.
Little girls, the devil.
They did.
Did you hear that Claire?
She's so really loud.
Well, I can't cut that out because I said that really funny joke.
What?
That really funny, that joke, that line from that movie.
Oh, you won't get sued.
Everybody quotes that.
Little girls, such a devil.
So Michael had very strong beliefs about the partnership between Rusty and Andrea.
He pretty much preached that essentially all women inherit the sins of Eve when all men
inherit Adam's good nature.
So all women are sinful because that's what they got from Eve.
But Adam is inherently good.
He's just a good guy.
He's a nice guy.
That's why he married the mom of all the demons.
And what?
Adam, his first wife was Lilith.
Oh.
Well, I'm watching Lucifer right now, so that's what they say.
Clearly Adam is good natured.
Maybe he's not the smartest chip on the block.
Oh no.
I don't know him from Adam, so I can't really say it.
I don't know him from Adam.
Rusty to be...
I like that laugh.
Rusty to began to believe in this and as his mentor, Michael's word was taken as gold to
not marry too quickly.
So he can like fuck around with her, but he just can't marry her?
What's the difference?
I know.
Obviously the difference is the piece of paper, but like if she's sin, like sin and concentrate.
You know what I mean?
Like why is he interacting with her at all?
Incarnate is what you meant?
Yes.
Well concentrate still makes sense.
I think what Michael is saying that all women are born with a sin, right?
It's the sin of being a woman.
Yeah.
But I'm just saying why wouldn't he be like don't interact with women at all?
Instead of just like, oh you can do whatever you want, just don't marry her.
Well you can't.
I mean you can't be gay either, so I don't really know what to do.
So a bit.
You're not allowed to be gay and you're not...
You have to be with a woman that is absolutely sinful and so it's like essentially your duty
as Adam of the relationship is to like help her not be sinful.
Oh okay, I got it.
It's kind of what, yeah.
So it's like somehow that makes sense as a perfect match.
You know?
It's just, I don't freaking know.
Jargon.
Rusty maintained the relationship with Andrea for four years before they did eventually
get married.
It was very clear from the beginning of their marriage that Rusty did not want his wife
to use any type of contraceptives.
And said that it is his intention to have quote, except as many children as God sent
their way, end quote.
The relationship seemed to do well, but the only real struggle that the couple seemed
to deal with was communication.
Rusty and Andrea would get frustrated with each other just like all young couples, but
Rusty would almost always be met with a very reserved and quiet Andrea when it came to
confrontation.
She essentially just avoided it at all costs.
Just a few short months after getting hitched, the couple welcomed their first child, Noah.
Aptly named.
Oh yeah, they're all religious.
With the welcoming of their first child, it seemed it was the end of Andrea's working
career.
It was Rusty's view that the perfect family that God intended involved the wife and mother
to be raising the children at home while the man worked.
So Andrea, of course, quit her job.
Andrea was excited to become a new mother.
She loved little Noah and was always seen smiling with him in her arms.
However, Andrea shortly after Noah's birth would have very intense dreams and often had
images flash across her mind of a stabbing situation, often with her holding a knife.
I was going to ask how old are they?
They're like mid-20s at this point?
Yeah, I think when they met, well, her first-year relationship was 23.
I think she met Rusty the following year, so 24.
And then, well, I guess she would have been 28 then at this point because they'd been
married for four years and quickly had Noah.
Andrea would say that these dreams scared her, but that she never really felt out of
control in the dreams.
She felt like she had total control of who she was and what she was doing, like lucid
dreams, right?
She felt that maybe she was dealing with some postpartum weepies, more commonly referred
to as baby blues, which is a normal reaction to hormone levels fluctuating after birth.
And after a while, Andrea did begin to feel better with time.
Within a year of Noah's birth, Andrea found out that they would be having another child,
John, two kids in two years, and Andrea began to feel somewhat overwhelmed.
She had the help of her mother and her mother-in-law, thankfully, but a short time after John was
born, Rusty was offered a position in Miami.
Taking this opportunity, Rusty packed up the family and moved the four into a travel home,
which was essentially an old Greyhound bus that they had refurbished or something.
Okay.
Fine, fine, right, but you also have two little children.
Two under two.
Yeah, two under two.
This job only lasted for six months.
Oh my God.
And then the family would return to outside of Houston area into a mobile home.
So, still kind of a small living situation.
Well, with all these kids he wants to have, what is he going to do?
Yeah, for sure.
They'll just rent a bus like the Partridge family.
Yeah.
I mean, right?
That worked for them.
The magic school bus.
The magic school bus full of children.
Soon, Andrea would become pregnant again with their third child, Paul.
During this time, Rusty began to see somewhat of a change in Andrea, his wife, needing to
confide in his friend and mentor Michael.
Rusty then reached out saying that his wife seemed not to be enjoying their life together
anymore and that she seemed off.
Well, she's having babies left and right.
She's probably not having any time to have her hormones back in balance.
She gave up her job.
Yeah.
To be your baby factory.
Yeah, seriously.
God.
Michael would offer to reach out to Andrea to speak with her directly, which Rusty agreed.
He's like, sure, here's my wife's number.
Go for it.
I think it was email, but either way.
Although he was just as harsh on her as he would be on anyone on a college campus, saying
things like, quote, God knows how wicked you are.
You must accept the reality that your life is under the curse of sin and death.
You are the daughter of Eve, end quote.
Oh, great.
Yeah, that's really an enticing way that she's going to want to respond.
Quote, you must become a daughter of the most high, end quote.
The fuck does that even mean?
I guess a daughter of God instead of a daughter of Eve.
Yeah.
Which is like, God made Eve.
So I don't understand.
Stupid.
I won't get into it.
Mumbo jumbo.
Michael had even said on many occasions that Rusty and Andrea's children were already
destined for hell as their parents, being Rusty and Andrea, are full of sin.
In order to save their children, they must do more, dedicate more of themselves to God,
and essentially do everything asked of him being God.
Michael also preached and Rusty repeated several times to Andrea that after the age of 14 or
15, the hopes that your child will go to heaven are over.
This is why it's so important to keep your life as parents sin free and for the women
to stay home to watch the children so that there are no other influences on the child.
Just by 14 or 15, they are exposed to the world more, and if they don't have a strong
sense of self or what to watch out for, they will go to hell regardless.
So you only have until they're 14 or 15 years old to prep them or train them or what do
we want to say for them to be protected by the outside world.
I feel like this could very easily turn into like a, yeah, don't let your kids get full
of sin, just go ahead and kill them when they're 14.
Right.
Like, that's all the life they're allowed to live.
So stay the fuck out of my life, Michael.
Like, who the fuck are you?
Well, Rusty's like clearly doesn't have a brain for himself.
So he's like, oh, Michael, tell me what to do, Michael.
Oh, wasn't the archangel Michael?
Yeah.
When Lucifer like rebelled against God, Michael was like, he like essentially stood with his
arms crossed and was like, I'm back in God.
Well, there we go.
Yeah.
See, they don't like each other.
They don't like each other.
So yeah, one could imagine that this is a great environment for someone who's dealing with
mental health issues, right?
To top all of this pressure off, Andrea's father was actually diagnosed with Alzheimer's
and she would often take the kiddos over to her parents' place to help her on the house
as well.
So not only is she taking care of three of her kids, she's taking the kids over to her
parents' place so that she can help her mother and stuff like that as well.
So.
So she's probably tasked with taking care of Rusty as well.
Yeah, exactly.
I was going to say homeboy, but I forgot to say it when I came to meet Rusty.
Sometimes Andrea was just thankful to just have another adult around to help with her
babies.
Rusty often worked long hours and late hours or would go out of town for work.
So Andrea was always coaching and growing the children on her own.
She would help them reach milestones, educate the babies from home.
She never hired a nanny, a babysitter, or enrolled them in any type of childcare.
It was paramount in Andrea and Rusty's minds that she, the mother, is the only one educating
and where the caring came from.
Which is funny because they're saying that she's full of sin, so why wouldn't she teach
if that's true?
Why wouldn't they think that, oh, she's going to teach her children a sin?
You're full of sin, but we're going to trust you to teach these children to not be full
of sin.
I don't know if that's necessarily what they mean.
I think they're saying you're born into sin and therefore essentially you pay for it your
whole life by repenting.
I think that maybe Andrea took it like that, like I'm full of sin, but I don't think that
that was the intention behind what they were telling her.
Well, gotta be more clear sometimes, guys, because people don't know what you mean.
Because shit like this happens.
Furthermore, the couples stopped attending their local church and instead opted to host
Bible study at their own home three days a week, which is more pressure.
Gotta keep the house clean because everybody's coming over.
That's just ugh.
Then you have to host all these people.
He's like, Andrea, while you're at it honey, can you whip up dinner for 50?
Yeah.
Thank you.
Oh yes, the Johnson's are coming over and their entire family.
Yeah, exactly.
You also need to be baking four cakes.
In February 1999, the couple would have their fourth child, Luke.
All seemed normal the first few months after Luke's birth.
However, by June, Rusty would come home from work and find his wife Andrea cowering in the
corner of the living room.
She was in a catatonic-like state.
She had chewed her fingernails down to the bone and she was uncontrollably shaking.
Andrea looked up at Rusty and only said, quote, I need help.
Oh, that's horrible.
He's.
Wait, do they have four boys?
They have four boys.
Oh gosh.
That's not that, not that have four boys, but that's horrible what she's going through.
Rusty however did not take Andrea to the hospital that evening since he was home.
He thought everything would be okay for a night.
Just pray it away.
Let's shake it off.
Instead, the next morning he drove the family over to Andrea's parents' house where he
left her and the kids in order to go to work.
She'll help talk some sense into her daughter.
Yeah.
She'll be fine and maybe she just needs to get out of the house.
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Later in the day while the kids and her parents were sleeping, Andrea ingested 40 Trazodon
pills in an effort to overdose.
40?
40 pills.
Andrea was found by her mother who then rushed her to the hospital in an effort to save her
life.
Andrea would survive this first suicide attempt.
Once Andrea was stabilized, she was transferred to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation.
Her doctor diagnosed her with a major depressive disorder, which is something that runs in Andrea's
family.
Weird.
Wild, right?
I'll fucking say.
Andrea believed that this was impossible because in her words, she quote, never cried.
And quote.
Whoa.
And therefore was not depressed.
What a thought.
Oh my gosh.
She's like, well, I don't cry.
Ooh, that gives me chills.
Right?
That's, ah, this is why we educate people because that's not a thing.
Like, does it matter?
You're depressed.
Yeah.
Like, oh my gosh, that's interesting that she thought that though.
Well, yeah.
I couldn't be depressed because I don't cry.
Well, if you're not, everybody handles emotion differently.
I just feel like if you feel like you're someone who never cries, what have you been
taught somewhere in your life that you can't feel that emotion?
Yeah.
But also like, if you think about the word depressed, depressed does not mean sad.
Depressed means lacking there.
Like, you know, it's small.
Like it's squeezed in a little tiny ball.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean.
Like, if you feel like that would be a little bit different.
I would never, I'm not crying.
That's sad or whatever.
Right.
Depressed means defeated or like, you know, deflated.
Yeah.
Pushed down.
Yeah.
It's just really interesting.
Yeah.
It was also.
Yeah.
So interesting.
Wow.
She never cries.
This is what we do.
Because big girls don't cry.
It was also determined by Andrea's doctor that given Andrea's state, there would likely
have been plenty of warning signs pre-catatonia.
Weird.
So he was like, this isn't something that just happens.
Yeah.
This is someone who has been dealing with stuff for a long time.
And this is the result of it.
Yes.
Well, how would Russ, you know, he's always at work and she's at home by herself with
children that probably can't recognize those things.
Yeah, of course.
She's, yeah.
And he doesn't care.
Her sole role is to be a good mother.
And when she finally got enough and asked for help, he's like, let me find her.
Yeah.
Go spend some time with your mom.
The doctor had determined that her condition was one that was continued, that had continued
to worsen due to lack of care.
Yeah.
It's like an infection, right?
Absolutely.
And again, no chance for her hormones to get rebalanced.
She's having child after child.
That's got to be so tough on your brain.
During her evaluation, Andrea was very remorseful for trying to take her own life.
She had told the nurse several times that she loved her family very much.
And she also expressed her concern multiple times of whether or not she could still breast
feed with the medication that she took.
Oh, wow.
She was like, well, I took all this medication, but I still need to feed my child.
That is what's in her head.
You know?
Yeah, that sounds like it was almost like a dissociative state, so defeated.
I'm just going to take all these pills, not even thinking about anything else.
And then when she comes to, she's like, oh, fuck, what did I do?
I have a family to feed.
Like, who's going to take care of my children?
Because obviously they're daddisoned.
Right.
Well, I don't know if she thought that far, but she definitely was concerned, like, how
soon can I breastfeed with all this in my system?
Always thinking of everyone else.
Yes.
So she very clearly cared for her children.
Andrea would stay in the hospital for a few days, but Andrea never seemed to want to participate
in group therapy.
She would often retreat to her room or make excuses as to why she wouldn't want to go.
She often told doctors and nurses about what was going on through her mind during her suicide
attempt.
She would say things like, quote, I don't know, or I can't remember, end quote.
Again, it's dissociative.
I mean, she's already catatonic.
Who knows how long she was catatonic before that happened?
And you know, that's completely dissociating from your environment.
Right.
And also said, quote, I guess I'm just overwhelmed and depressed, end quote.
Like, I guess I'm overwhelmed and depressed, which sounds to me like she's saying that
because someone told her that.
Yeah.
A doctor said, are you overwhelmed?
You must be overwhelmed.
How overwhelmed you must be.
Depressed, depressed.
You may be just depressive.
So I guess I'm overwhelmed and depressed.
Right.
It's like she doesn't know how, like she's not explaining why she's feeling that way
or how she came to that conclusion.
It's just like, I guess.
I mean, it makes, if I'm trying to take my own life, I must be depressed, you know, or
whatever.
I must be overwhelmed.
Yeah.
She's, but it's not her having those feelings.
Yeah.
Her saying like I feel worthless or whatever.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, due to her insurance, she was only allowed to stay for about four to five
days, which was under the amount of days recommended by her doctor for treatment.
Ultimately, the psychiatrist would prescribe Andrea with an antidepressant and Rusty himself
discharged his wife from the hospital claiming that he would look after Andrea.
And when he wasn't there, he would ensure either his parents or her parents would be
there.
Because they were like literally don't leave her alone.
Yeah.
You can't.
Like very serious.
Yes.
The doctor warned Rusty that Andrea's mental illness isn't something that goes away.
The antidepressants are there to help stabilize her, but the doctor recommended not having
any more children as this is seemingly why Andrea's triggers pop up and essentially send
her into a spiral.
Every time she has a child.
Yes, essentially.
It's, I mean, it's like you said, it's fluctuation all the time.
There's no stabilizing.
And not for nothing.
But when you're trying to get those type of medications stabilized, it's not really safe
to try to have a child at the same time.
Because again, all the emotions and hormones and everything, it's going to imbalance everything
and it's going to take at the very minimum six months for that medication to stabilize.
I agree.
Andrea was released from the hospital and into the care of her husband.
Once home, Andrea would continue medication for some time, but after a while, she began
complaining about having to take it.
She believed that the drugs that she was taking were some type of truth serum, which is interesting
to me because I don't think that she would claim that unless she wasn't taking her medication.
Because I feel like the medication was there to help regulate those thoughts and feelings.
In combination with her skipping medication on occasion, she believed it more and more,
which also contributes to it.
Of course.
Sounds like she kind of started skipping it than the spot and turned her head.
So she started taking it less.
And she's like, shit, I gotta stop taking that.
Yeah.
And I think Andrea had stopped taking her medication altogether and perhaps worse than
that, Rusty and Andrea found out that Andrea was pregnant again just seven weeks after
her release.
Oh my God.
Rusty, keep it in your fucking pants, dude.
You can't.
It's what the load wants.
Oh my God.
That's horrible.
It's just, it's a doctor specifically told you not to have any children, at least for
a little bit.
Yeah.
It's fucking your- A month later.
A month and a half later.
That's crazy.
This time they were expecting a girl, a baby girl named Mary.
Mary was born in November of 2000.
And in early 2001, Andrea's father was placed in a hospice facility.
One would assume that maybe this would lend some type of relief to Andrea now that she
wouldn't have to check on him as regularly.
But Andrea instead opted to drive out to see her father with all five of her children regularly.
And I think it was a bit of a drive.
I didn't specifically Google map it, but it seemed like it would be maybe like a 40-minute
drive.
Even if it's the next neighborhood over getting five children in the car.
In the car.
In the destination is probably difficult.
Especially to get all of their shoes, because like, if I had one kid and he would drop his
shoes all the time getting them into the car seat.
So this arrangement was short-lived as Andrea's father would pass away in about February or
March of 2001.
When Andrea's father passed away, Andrea herself drove to be there with her father.
But upon her arrival, seeing the sight of her father's lifeless body was too much for
her.
Yeah.
I was like, that's not a good idea.
Not when, yeah, not when she's dealing with so much.
When she returned home, she was never the same.
She laid in bed for hours, would huddle corners of the home, and basically was in shambles.
God, that's so horrible.
And her husband was just like, hey, what's for dinner?
Where's my sandwich?
Well, I'm serious.
Like, that sounds like what he's like.
The kids in bed?
Are they bathed?
You'll get over this.
You're so lazy.
She was so depressed that she actually stopped feeding her children.
She would pacify them or ignore the whines and cries.
She began picking at her skin.
She created bald spots in her hair from tugging and pulling at herself.
Andrea would scratch her legs and arms up with her nails constantly.
She herself could not eat or drink.
Andrea had also begun hearing voices, telling her to grab kitchen knives.
Oh my gosh, she's having a full psychotic break.
She came home one day after work to find Andrea in the bathroom holding a knife to her own
throat.
He was able to calm Andrea down and Rusty called Andrea's doctor to ask what to do.
Oh, is she taking her medication?
Oh, she's not taking her medication.
Oh, really?
Oh, she said that she didn't need her medication anymore?
That's weird.
And you also had another child in between this time.
Oh, okay.
Very interesting.
And now you need my help.
I'm not going to say I told you so, but that's fucked up.
It is.
The doctor said to get her to treatment immediately.
Andrea actually refused to leave the home and Rusty had to employ the help of her brother.
The two would then drag Andrea into the facility where she would refuse to sign admitted papers.
At that point, it shouldn't be, I feel like it shouldn't be an option.
Like she should be admitted involuntarily because she's clearly a danger to herself
and or other people.
Yes.
And actually, she would sign the paperwork after being threatened to be held under Texas
law.
Okay.
So essentially, like if they were, if she didn't sign the papers, I'm assuming, you
know, they would hold her for a certain amount of time.
But if she voluntarily checked herself in, she could probably voluntarily check herself
out.
Correct.
Yeah.
So that makes sense.
Yeah.
It's probably what she did.
Andrea was in treatment for 10 days before being released.
She was released once again into the care of her husband and both sets of parents were
aware that Andrea was not to be left alone with the children, both their parents.
To the care or lack thereof of Rusty.
On May 3rd, Andrea and her mother-in-law took the kids for a walk.
And when they arrived back to the house, Andrea began to fill up a bathtub.
It wasn't inherently odd.
However, when her mother-in-law asked what she was doing, Andrea said, quote, I might
need it.
Oh, I think I remember this.
With that, the mother-in-law let the tub drain.
She's like, okay, Andrea.
A few days later, Andrea was set to see her doctors for a follow-up visit.
Once the story of the bathtub was revealed, Andrea was then placed into treatment again
after doctors agreed that this was likely a sign that Andrea intended to harm herself
or someone else.
While in treatment, Rusty and the kids never visited Andrea, which was the first time that
she had gone to treatment completely alone.
Oh, that's horrible.
I mean, I know that's hard for the kids, but at least Rusty, like, come on.
Yeah.
You know?
He's gonna work.
It's a real world.
He's gonna work.
He crossed your eyes when he said work and it said like, to put it.
He's gonna go to work.
I have a job.
Hmm.
Yeah, let me pave all this money for this insurance that doesn't fucking do anything.
Andrea had begun eating and sleeping on her own about 12 days into treatment and Andrea
was released once again into the care of her husband, or lack thereof.
I repeat.
Yeah, I'm gonna keep saying that.
Over the course of one month, Andrea was to attend six outpatient meetings and continue
taking her medication.
She didn't show up for any of it.
By June, Andrea had not bathed, barely eaten, not slept, and refused to take her medication.
I'm sorry, but if I was the husband, well, if I'm a good person, he's not, but if I
was the partner and for some reason this person was released back into my care for
the third time instead of staying there, the second I noticed something was not okay,
I would bring her right the fuck back.
Like I'm sorry, but that is love, like bringing someone back when they need it, not letting
them not bathe for a fucking couple months or not eat.
You know, it's like, he's just like, oh, you're not eating tonight?
Okay, what's for dinner for me?
Like, it's like stupid.
No, I definitely read in a few articles, if not some of the court documents that Rusty
had said, well, yeah, like every time I would just tell them like, yeah, like now I know
better.
So like when she comes home with me, like, I'll be better, I'll be better at like recognizing
these signs.
Not seeing any effort.
No, he wanted this of that.
He wanted a zombie and he was fine with it.
That's gross.
When Rusty approached her doctor about all of these things that were happening, it was
suggested that Andrea participate in shock therapy and her medication switched to lithium.
And if that doesn't work, we'll just lobotomize her.
Yeah.
Well, horrible.
The thing that is frustrating about, I'm not trying to make jokes, I'm like actually really
irritated.
The thing that's frustrating is that if she had gotten the proper treatment from the beginning,
this wouldn't even be fucking happening.
No, it wouldn't.
You know what I mean?
Like if she was on a serious regimen and she had someone that really cared about her and
kept her from weaning herself off from medication maybe or even before that, who knows, none
of this might have happened.
And the fact that like, he's just like, oh yeah, like we have these children together
and he doesn't care, seem to care that he worries about their mother's health.
Like it's just, it's very strange.
So fortunately or unfortunately, Andrea would never get this shock therapy or lithium switch.
On June 20th, the family got up to do their morning routine.
Andrea got up with the kids and began to serve them breakfast cereal.
This is 2001 still?
Yes.
Rusty came into the kitchen and noticed Andrea's hands were shaky.
Rusty asked Andrea if she took her medication that morning, which she said yes.
It's great due diligence.
Rusty had an important meeting that morning and he would be leaving the children with
their mother for one hour before his mother could come and help.
Against the doctor's recommendation.
Yes.
They kissed each other goodbye and Rusty left for work.
Andrea then began to fill up the bathtub.
While the children were still eating cereal, Andrea picked up three year old Paul, took
him to the bathroom and drowned him in the bathtub.
He died within minutes.
Andrea washed his hair after.
After this, she took Paul's body to the, to her bedroom, laid him on the bed and tucked
him in with a maroon blanket.
She then grabbed two year old Luke, five year old John and a baby bottle full of milk.
She held Luke in the water until he was lifeless, killing him in front of his brother John.
Andrea then drowned John in the bathtub while Luke lay there in the water.
The baby bottle was for baby Mary.
Andrea wanted Mary to be by her side while she murdered her brothers and to keep Mary
entertained and next to her, she lured Mary with the baby bottle.
Andrea scooped up Luke and John, bringing them to lay beside their brother and tucked
them in.
She then went back to the bathroom and drowned baby Mary, just six months old.
She left Mary floating in the bathtub.
She then brought in seven year old Noah, her firstborn, into the bathroom.
Perhaps Andrea left Noah for last since she might have felt that he would put up the most
struggle.
Andrea forced Noah into the tub where his baby sister was still floating in the water.
Noah fought hard, so hard that there were bruises on his body from the struggle.
And in the end, Andrea drowned Noah beside his baby sister.
She then took Mary's body and laid it with her brothers.
She would leave Noah in the bathtub.
She then called 911.
Oh my god, I want to throw up.
Like the whole thing is horrendous, but like it's extra vulgar that like one of the two
separate occasions, one of the deceased children was still in the bathtub when the other one
was being killed.
Like that's so fucking horrible.
And then to like have to watch that.
And I think that Noah had said what happened to baby Mary when he walked in.
It's almost like she was waiting, like subconsciously waiting for her to be alone with the kids
again.
Yeah.
And the bathtub, I mean, she was, it was preparation for sure.
Yeah.
I don't, I think that when she did the walk with the mother-in-law, I think that maybe
she didn't know that the mother-in-law was still in the house and she filled up the bathtub.
And I'm pretty sure it was Noah that had said something to the grandmother about a bathtub
being filled and then Mrs. Yates went in there and was like, what are you doing?
She's like, oh, just in case I need it.
Yeah, that's weird.
Very weird.
And then I'm glad she said something because that put her into the hospital again, but
again, there's no follow-up.
Yeah, no one fucking did anything.
Sorry, it's not funny.
It's really not.
I'm just uncomfortable.
So Andrea then called 911 saying that she needed them to come to the home, that she had
done something but refused to say what she had done.
She then called Rusty and told him to come home.
Rusty then arrives at his home to find it surrounded by police officers.
His mother was by the front door.
Andrea was in the back of a police car.
He was then informed that his children, all five, had been murdered by his wife.
Once at the police station, Andrea said little, but what she did say was that she believed
that she was a bad mother, that her children were not developed correctly and that she was
Satan, by proxy that she had passed this evil on to her children and that they did not have
a chance to grow up to be normal people.
Andrea was charged with five first-degree murders.
Surprisingly to the public, Rusty was in complete support of his wife.
He went on multiple news stations to talk about Andrea's struggles.
Although some were concerned about Rusty's views on mental health and motherhood.
He has expressed to Andrea's brother on many occasions that, quote, depressed people just
need a kick in the pants, end quote.
Wow.
And when questioned as to why Rusty would feel like it was okay to leave Andrea with
the children alone against medical advice, he said that this was an effort to wean Andrea
off of the help of him and his own mother and become more independent.
Let that fucking sink in.
Like what?
It's her duty as a mother to do this independently.
This was in support of her.
Let's...oh!
Oh my god.
I just hit my elbow really hard.
Sorry, that was loud as hell.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, that's horrible.
He thinks that he is being...and maybe it's just the delulu.
I don't know.
Maybe it's just, he just really believes that he's doing right by her to be like, pray
it away or...
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
He's very ignorant.
Yeah.
Very ignorant.
I think that's what it is.
I think it's ignorance.
I don't think that he's malicious.
I think that he's just probably a simple dude.
You know what I mean?
Just a simple...
Rusty, simple dude.
You're rich.
You're very rich.
Good god.
That's horrible.
You know what I was thinking?
And I don't mean to sound vulgar, but I'm surprised that she didn't attempt suicide
again after she killed them.
I might have a note on that.
Oh, okay.
Andrea would plead not guilty by reason of insanity.
And in March of 2002, despite Andrea's vast medical and mental history, she was found
guilty on all charges.
I mean, it was premeditated with the bathtub, especially since she did it one other time
before that.
And there's a witness to that.
My throat is hurting.
I'm sorry.
My voice is like...
I don't know what else to say.
However, when her appeal came around, Andrea pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity
again, and this time she was found not guilty in 2006.
Wow.
She was serving over three years in prison at that point.
She was then moved to an undisclosed facility in Curville.
So sorry.
Yeah, totally.
But she, yeah, she resides in Curville now.
I think that she was originally at another facility, and then they transferred her to
a facility in Curville.
I didn't realize there was one in Curville.
It was kind of a small place.
That's what I was thinking.
I was like, undisclosed.
I was like, Curville's small.
I'm sure you could find the one that was there.
See it right off the highway.
Andrea has never once tried to apply for release.
She believes that her punishment for the sins of being a bad mother is to live the rest
of her life without her children.
That's so horrible.
It's like, I don't know if I like that though, and then it's clearly someone that's very
mentally ill talking, but I feel like it might be like a, I just had to get rid of them
because I'm not fit to be a mother.
And it's like, that's not fair to them.
You could have just given them up for adoption.
Well, you did have that callback.
Remember, like I'll call back to what you said when I had mentioned that Michael had
said, if you don't do it successfully before they're 14 or 15, they're damned to go to
hell anyways.
And I think that that's something that really resonated with her.
And she probably thought, given her suicide attempts, given her the medication, the, you
know, not being able to do everything, host parties and Bible studies and take care of
her dad and take care of her mom and all of this pressure, she was essentially told, this
is what normal people do.
Normal people do all this stuff and they're just fine.
So what's wrong with you?
Yeah.
And if you can't do it right, then your children are damned forever.
And maybe she thought like at that point, because she was spiraling so hard that she's
like, oh my God, like something really bad is going to happen to my kids.
Yeah.
Not excusing, just explaining.
Right.
And the truth is that that's not reality.
Right.
Not everyone does those things.
Not everyone has to do all that.
She did it because she's Andrea.
She did it because she wanted to give her all in her marriage and her and being a mother
and being a good daughter and being a good whatever sister.
And she felt like she wasn't good enough.
And therefore she influenced her children to not be good enough.
And then there's a lineage of people that aren't good enough.
And she failed.
She failed them.
And instead of them being in hell for the rest of their lives, she's going to kill them
now so they can go to heaven.
And maybe one day she can see them there.
It's horrible.
It's just it's fucking sad that she was sold that.
She was sold that.
She truly, I believe that she truly believed that.
I believe that she truly believed it too.
And I think that's why the Insanity Playworks for her in her situation is because she wasn't
taught any better.
She doesn't know any better.
This is the only thing she knew.
She was essentially closeted.
Yeah.
You know, she wasn't going to work.
The kids never went to school.
She probably didn't have any friends.
Well, I guess it's good now that she's in a facility rather than a prison because now
she's probably getting properly medicated and properly monitored like she never had the
chance to do before.
Yeah, I agree.
And the fact that I like I said, the fact that she's never tried to apply to get out
like shows that whatever is going on is working because every other time she's been discharged,
she's probably terrified to leave.
Yeah.
Yes, that's horrible.
Rusty Yates has come back into the spotlight several times over the years, doing various
new shows and all that.
He filed for divorce from Andrea in 2004 after two years of her incarceration.
He then remarried a divorcee in 2006 who had two previous children.
The couple would have one son together and they seemed to be doing well.
However, in a somewhat strange interview with Oprah Winfrey, Rusty would talk about how
although he's happy with his family now, nothing ever compared to how happy he was in his relationship
with Andrea and sharing their five children.
So he essentially was like, and that's paraphrased.
I'm not saying that.
But he was like, well, they know.
Essentially they know they're not good enough.
They know they're not my Andrea and my five children.
That's awful.
It is so bizarre.
I recommend anyone to watch it.
You can find it like free clips on YouTube.
It's bizarre the way that he's like, I'll never love them as much as I loved Andrea and
my first five children.
There's something going on with him too, I think.
What's going on with that man?
Anyways, Rusty's new wife would file for divorce in 2015.
No.
Okay, there you go.
Well, there you go.
She's like, we're not good enough.
This guy's a winner.
Yeah.
Rusty's single ladies.
Oh, he's an eligible bachelor if you want to be a sinner and a homemaker.
He used to being a sinner.
Oh my gosh.
That is the story of Andrea Gates and her children.
I knew when you had said that she filled up the bathtub the first time it came back to
me, I was like, oh, I forgot.
I think I told you off mic, I was like, I think that she drowns all of her kids in the
bathtub, but you didn't respond.
You just let me have it.
I just didn't say anything.
You didn't say anything and we just kept going.
That is horrible.
That's horrible.
When I think about mothers in the 90s in true crime, I think about Andrea Gates.
I think about Routier.
I think about, what's the other one that I did?
Susan Smith.
Yeah.
I think about those and just really Diane Routier.
Right?
Diane Dana, Diane Routier.
Anyways, I think about those because they were really, really, they were just really
well-known cases.
I think maybe for your generation, it would have been like the Casey Anthony case.
And it was just, yeah.
It was a wild time.
Those were lawless.
I'm just surprised that you covered that case because it's a bunch of kids.
Kid of kids.
Yeah.
That's definitely one that I've heard, like I had the name, very well-known and I'm glad
that you covered it because I don't know how well I would have done on that one.
But just really horrible example of why we do the podcast.
People need to have the, not even just the availability and encouragement, but the ongoing
support when they want to get treatment and mental health help because it's not especially
like disorders like this.
She had an unspecified psychotic disorder, right?
Something like that, in my opinion.
I think they called it a postpartum psychosis.
Yeah.
And so like with something like that, which is one very unpredictable, like who's to
say the first medication that you get prescribed is going to work.
But like that's not something that is completely going to go away like ever.
Like the doctor said.
Like it's going to need, you're going to need to have someone that is willing to be
that support system and willing to like help remind you to take your medication and tell
the doctor the second they see something abnormal and protect the children of course.
And unfortunately, Rusty just wasn't that person and it just turned out really badly
for everyone.
I think so, yeah.
Yeah.
I think the postpartum of that, it's like you were right in saying it's just boom one
right after the other and there's many families that, you know, have a religious setting or
background and that's something that they wholeheartedly believe in and I'm not dogging
that at all.
I'm just saying, I wonder how many other mothers out there get so overwhelmed with so many
kids so quickly.
Like I could never do that.
Yeah.
I've seen like they did an episode of Grace about it and there was this woman, they had
had like five, she was like pregnant with baby number six and the couple was like that,
of course, this is fictional, but she had come to the hospital and she said that like
their religion doesn't believe in contraception but she physically doesn't think she can
have any more kids.
Like it's too much to handle and she asked, can you please tie my twos without my husband
knowing.
Yeah.
And when I deliver this baby and they're like, no, we can't do that.
But then they do it anyway.
Well, they didn't do it anyway, they accidentally.
I'm sorry, but I'm thinking what a strong relationship where she wants to lie to her
husband about not wanting to have any more children.
I know.
But that's what I'm saying.
Like Andrea probably didn't think she could say no to that.
You know, and yeah, that's just, it's just hard.
It's really hard too because you don't want to like discount someone's beliefs and stuff
like that.
But this is just a case where it went too far.
I think so too.
I think there's someone behind me.
I don't know why I keep getting a weird like breathing.
It's rusty.
Oh my God.
All right.
Well, that's it for us today.
Yeah.
Good case, dude.
Yeah.
Thanks.
All right.
Make sure you guys check out that social media, give us a right, give us a dollar.
Yeah.
And thanks to everyone that played our little, how well do you know, DAK trivia game on Instagram?
By the way, we are actually sisters.
If you listen, you should know that.
But I think some people said that we're just friends.
That's funny.
We're friends and sisters.
That's true.
We'll see you guys next week with another case.
Yeah.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.
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