Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm Kena.
I'm Koel.
How's it going?
Pretty good.
I feel like we just need to merge this as how's it going?
How's it going?
We say that all the time now.
It's so true.
It's been a day.
I feel like I've done so much today, but also like nothing at all.
And I found out today that Willie Pickton was moided in prison.
Moided?
Moided.
He was, apparently I didn't really read much of it, but he was attacked like a while ago,
like a few weeks ago, and then I guess he succumbed to his injuries.
Yeah, I think I did read something about him getting attacked.
It was like a sharpened broomstick or something, and it was like a single blow into his skull.
Great.
Not even getting...
I mean, I can't say I'm upset.
If you haven't listened to that episode, go listen to that episode and then you'll understand.
Yeah.
That's all I gotta say about that though.
Do you have anything?
Just, that's a wild development.
I think the only other development that I've seen recently is that I think Gypsy Rose is
gonna be on an episode of the Kardashians.
I saw that, and she has a new series coming out as well, like Life After Prison.
And she's now...
The first one aired, I think.
Oh yeah.
And she's now redating her ex, I think.
Ex-Francita, yeah.
Yeah.
So Ryan Anderson actually started a TikTok as well.
Oh really?
Yeah, but he's like, I don't know if it's like an act or what, but he is like so many people
in the comments are trying to get me to trash Gypsy, and he's like, I'm just not gonna do
anything like that.
I can tell my own side of the story without having to essentially bring someone else down.
There you go.
And I was like, what a dude.
Yeah, he seems like a nice guy.
He'll be fine.
From what we can see.
Me, he's making a gay.
He's making a gay.
I don't know.
Oh, Tommy Boy.
Oh, your nails look pretty.
We both have their nails.
Please.
Oh my god.
My other like, I don't know what you call this.
You're a descent.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Before we get into this fukin' case, do you want to give everyone our social media
handles and maybe remind them of something fun that's coming up soon?
Sure.
You can check us out on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer, other than ex formerly
known as Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnoses.
Not Diagnoses, but Diagnoses.
There you go.
You know what I'm saying.
We also have a PayPal, Venmo, and Cashrop, if you would like to support us monetarily.
Or if you want, you can sign up for that Patreon that we got going on.
We actually have four tiers now.
So our first tier will get ad-free mental breakdown episodes.
Tears two, three, and four will get the ad-free regular episodes and mental breakdowns.
And then our tier threes and fours will receive that additional bonus episode towards the
end of the month every month.
Yes.
The most recent one was Pretty Gnarly.
So if you want to join those people that are already part of that, go ahead and go to
patreon.com slash Diagnosing a Killer.
It just takes a few minutes to sign up.
Yes.
We also have the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival happening in July.
Kenna's birthday weekend.
I'm super excited.
Use our code DAK to receive an additional 13% off of those tickets.
Yeah, I'm super looking forward to that.
And then I know Crimecon just ended.
It was at Nashville this year, but we have actually inquired again about going to Crimecon
hopefully next year, fingers crossed.
Now that we're getting some more downloads because of our lovely listeners, you guys
are really helping us get our name out there, so we're really hoping to be able to do that
next year.
Yeah, we can like, we'll keep it blank.
We could be like rubbing elbows with like, dateline.
Oh yeah.
In like, 2020.
Absolutely.
And what's Nancy Grace?
What's her?
Nancy Drew or Nancy Grace?
Who is she?
Nancy Grace.
That was right the first time.
Nancy Grace.
All those people, like Elizabeth Smart I think is doing work with True Crime Daily I think.
I would love to like pick all those people's brains straight up.
You know who might be there next year?
Who?
Chipsy Rose Blanchard.
Oh, you're right, she may.
Right?
That's actually a good point.
She's been such an advocate for Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen Syndrome by proxy.
It's true.
It's pretty interesting.
Yeah.
Do you have anything else before we get into this case?
Nope.
I'm just gonna sit back and listen to you.
Yeah.
Okay, so today we actually have another request.
So today we are going to be talking about one herb bowmeister who has been requested
by listener James.
So thank you James.
Who is this?
You don't know him.
No, I don't.
I didn't know either about the case, but when I was like doing my research, all these people
have covered him and it's like a very well-known case and I'm like, I'm embarrassed.
I hope I, I don't know.
I'm excited to be gag-gooped and odd.
I'm excited to bring the case and once again thank you James for the suggestion.
This one's for you.
Ready?
Yes.
Here we go.
Content Warning.
This episode contains depictions of animal cruelty, verbal abuse, negative ideations
of minority groups, sexual fetishes including asphyxiation, suicide, and ultimately brutal
murder.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health is very important and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Herbert Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis, Indiana on April 7th, 1947 to Dr. Herbert
Eugene Baumeister and Elizabeth Schmidt Baumeister.
It's a doctor.
A doctor?
Are you the doctor?
Herbert Sr. was an anesthesiologist and I actually couldn't find what Elizabeth did
for work, but it was in 1940 so she was probably a homemaker.
Well, well.
Well, well, it didn't work, right?
Jokes on you, she was working in a mine.
Right?
She's like, fuck you.
Herb would be the first child born to his parents, but the family would go on to have
three more children, Barbara in 1948, Brad in 1954, and Richard in 1956.
Soon after Richard was born when Herb was nine, the family would move to the affluent
area of Indianapolis called Washington Township.
Herb's childhood was reportedly normal while he was growing up, but when he reached adolescence,
he began showing signs of antisocial behavior.
On top of this, by the time he was 14, Herb was engaging in some very strange behaviors
such as urinating on his teacher's desk, putting a dead crow that he found on the road
on his teacher's desk, and generally having a very dark sense of humor and interest.
So he's just a cat.
He's like, have this dead bird on me pee on you because I claim you.
That's a good point, I didn't even think about that.
He's just a feline.
He's just a cat person.
Just like, again, his childhood upbringing, again, not a lot of information.
We normally see that, but then it's like he reaches his teen years and now he's acting
out in very grotesque kind of ways that you wouldn't normally see.
Yeah, that's very strange.
I feel like those are certain behaviors that come with a very detached feeling of abandonment
just because I see it a lot with foster kids, kids that urinate in like plants and things
like that.
It's a behavior that's kind of, I mean, I hate using this word, but like feral.
It's almost like I don't care what kind of attention I get, even if it's negative attention,
at least I'm getting attention.
And I think that might be how he was feeling.
Herb would attend North Central High School and as well as his extracurricular activities,
he was active in the geology, government, international relations, chess, and biology
clubs.
So he's a very busy kid.
Yeah.
Friends around this time were noticing that Herb was changing and had developed thoughts
and ideas that his other classmates just didn't share.
Super macabre.
Of these, one of the more notable thoughts that Herb voiced was the fact that he used
to quote, ponder what it would be like to taste human urine and quote.
What?
He has like a urine fetish.
Oh.
Well, I don't think that about foster kids.
Yeah.
No, it was a little bit different.
A little different.
Around this time, it was not only Herb's friends and classmates that were noticing his bizarre
behavior and his father would quickly take notice of Herb's oddness.
He's a doctor.
He's a anesthesiologist, but he has medical experience.
Maybe he has psychological experience.
Yeah.
Seemingly wanting to maintain a picture perfect family, Dr. Baumeister would take Herb to get
evaluated by a psychiatrist but would do so without telling anybody else.
Once it like under the radar.
Following this evaluation, Herb would leave with the diagnoses of paranoid schizophrenia
and antisocial personality disorder.
At what age?
He was like 15.
Yeah.
Which is, that's early for personality disorder.
Well, I don't know.
I feel like it's a little early for schizophrenia.
Yeah.
Because usually that's like late teens, early 20s.
Other than, other than Mark David Chapman when he was having those hallucinations when
he was like what, eight?
Yeah.
But there's, again, it's not like a specific, like every single person's going to get at
this time in their life.
So it's not out of the realm of possibilities.
Even though he left with these diagnoses, they would actually go untreated and Herb
would not visit any other professionals following this evaluation.
Gotta love it.
Like regularly.
Yeah.
Gotta love it.
That's how we see this all the time happen, you know?
So he just goes back to school.
And back at school while Herb was involved in certain clubs, like I said earlier, the
school was known for their sports environment.
And since Herb was not involved or even interested in sports, he would quickly fade into the
background and become like an outcast of sorts.
People stating that he, quote, just didn't blend in and quote.
Like he didn't just like kind of flow into the way that the school worked.
But he had all these like things that he was already doing.
Yes.
But do you think that he was trying those things out because of the acceptance?
Like he's like, I can try a multitude of things and surely I'll find friends or someone
I can connect with through this avenue.
Possibly.
I think that what the students when they say, oh, I just didn't blend in.
It's not that he didn't have a spot where he could fit in in school, but like they had
said like the school was super sports forward.
So it was probably like the popular kids and the jocks that were saying this.
Oh, he just didn't fit in, you know, with us.
So who's to say he didn't fit in with other kiddos?
Yeah.
He just didn't learn in sports because he couldn't have been the only person in that
school not involved in sports.
Yeah.
He just had no eye hand coordination.
This guy sucks.
Well, he also like didn't really find much solace in those groups either.
I think what you were saying, yeah, he might have been trying to find it, but it just didn't
work out for him.
So due to this lack of support at school, Herb would begin to self isolate further falling
into the symptoms of his illnesses.
Herb would spend many hours alone and had generally no interest in outside activities
or even connecting with anyone on a romantic level.
He's like, I don't care about girls.
I don't care about guys.
You know, I just want to be by myself, which is super like it's not like people when they
hear anti social, that's what they think.
That's not what that really means.
It means that they don't care about anything.
It's not that they like intentionally avoid people.
Yeah, they don't intentionally withdraw or yeah, but yeah, isolate, but people with on
this different spectrum are known to withdraw because they're having an internal battle
almost sometimes they have hallucinations that maybe cause them to withdraw without
them even noticing it.
In the year 1965 at the age of 18, Herb would graduate high school and enroll himself in
Indiana University.
Herb would ultimately spend just one semester here, however, and he would quickly drop out
only to return a couple of years later in 1967.
Do you know what he was going to school for?
I don't.
I don't think it was like he wasn't like trying to follow his dad.
Yeah, no, no, no, he wasn't in men's school.
I think he was just like, this is what you do.
Like you go to college up in school.
While in college, Herb would meet a woman by the name of Juliana or Julie Seder.
The two would quickly relate on their conservative views and would begin dating.
At the age of 20, still in 1967, Herb would drop out of Indiana University and began working
a series of jobs.
Here his bizarre behavior would only increase, but it was usually overlooked by employers
because Herb was known to have a really strong work ethic.
So it's like, yeah, he's kind of a weirdo, but like he's a hard worker, so like whatever.
That's kind of unnerving.
I know.
Because I feel like there's probably a lot of people throughout your lives that you probably
worked with and were like, well, he's a really hard worker, but he's a little weird, maybe
not a little weird, but you know what I'm saying?
Got a lot of passion.
Got a lot of passion for that.
That passion needs to go somewhere positive because it goes elsewhere.
But like how interesting and polite we are as people to just be like, well, he works
hard.
Yeah.
You want to give him the benefit of the doubt?
Yeah.
You always want to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
You don't want to be like, well, he's probably like going to do something weird because he's
weird, you know?
Yeah.
I don't know.
In November of 1971, a 24-year-old herb would tie the knot with Julie.
They didn't get married immediately.
They dated for like a couple years.
While they had a long relationship, Julie was noted as stating that the two did not
share many intimate moments and she never ever saw herb naked, which whatever, but like
she noted it as being a little odd.
Yeah.
So it was like, we've been together for like years and like he never wants to do that.
But again, it's too much of a zone.
Right.
Yeah.
Just six months into their marriage, herb would be admitted to a psychiatric hospital
once again at the request of his father, but also with the nudge of Julie, who stated that
herb was quote, hurting and needed help, end quote.
Hmm.
Again, he has untreated mental disorders.
True.
And they've been untreated for about a decade now.
Yeah.
So it's like, okay.
It's time.
Herb would spend two months admitted in this facility, but it would not tear apart the
marriage and he and Julie would go back to their lives following his return home.
There is not much known about the time Herb spent in the facility or even the true reasons
behind his readmittance.
However, still went untreated after this.
Hmm.
Once Herb was released, his father was able to get him a job as a copy boy for the Indianapolis
Star and he would be tasked with running reporters stories to and from each other as well as
other small errands.
So this was an entry level, almost intern like position.
Herb would quickly get under the skin of his superiors with this constant need for positive
feedback.
He's like, okay, tell me that I'm doing good.
Like, what can I do while Blod's like, dude, just get me fucking coffee and like chill out.
Yeah.
Organizing his hangers.
Yeah.
He's like, two sugars.
I might just be wanting a bagel with my coffee.
Exactly.
I can tell you what you can do.
Additionally, Herb would continuously try to find things to help him fit in with his
coworkers, but with no success as they were kind of turned off by his on behaviors.
And this is now obviously he's noticing this is a theme not only in his childhood now in
high school and now in college and now in his workplace.
Herb was not having much luck with this position and he would ultimately leave to take another
position with the Bureau of Motor Vehicles in 1974.
With this new job, Herb decided to approach this position in a different way.
Instead of using his desperate positive feedback seeking ways, Herb was now acting bossy and
aggressive towards his coworkers.
That's what you want.
Complete opposite.
He was known as lashing out at his peers, utilizing what he believed was a good supervisor's
attitude.
He's like, well, if I want to be the boss, I got to act like the boss.
The boss is an asshole.
I was going to be a boss.
However, with this new pompous attitude, the bizarre behavior did not stop.
And Herb's coworkers quickly began to think of him as an oddball once again.
One year around the holidays, Herb was noted as sending out a Christmas card to everyone
at work that included a photo of him and another man dressed in festive drag.
Very random.
Moment of silence for that card.
Being that it was the early 70s, many people seemed upset by the charade and this earned
Herb less respect in the workplace.
You thought it was funny?
I don't know what he thought.
I don't know if it was even on purpose.
I think that, I don't know.
How do you accidentally mail that to everyone?
I mean, I know email existed in the 70s.
Yeah.
Do you think it was actual full on drag or you think he was trying to be a bearded lady?
No, I think it was actual full on drag.
Like with the eyelash man and the...
Well, I'm not sure.
Oh, are you saying that like, okay, so this was probably a private photo?
I think so.
That he then leaked himself?
I think so.
Then another man.
Interesting.
Yes.
Following this card being sent out, rumors began to spread around the workplace that
Herb was a closet homosexual and also completely crazy.
Oh my gosh.
I know.
All right.
Despite the rumors and overall awkward work environment, Herb would keep this job for
a decade, increasing his position slowly over time.
Because he's a hard worker.
They're like, let's just look past that, like these little things when we think about it.
Let's look past the fact that he made fun of people in drag.
Exactly.
Meanwhile, Herb and Julie were still married and beginning to evolve into starting a family.
When Herb was 32 in 1979, he and Julie would welcome their first child, Marie, into the
world.
Beginning in June of 1980, an unidentified American serial killer by the nickname of
the I-70 Strangler was beginning their reign of terror that would last over the course
of 11 years.
On June 16th, 1980, 15-year-old Michael Sean Pantry would become the first victim of this
heinous killer.
Despite his young age, Michael was engaging in male prostitution and would spend most
of his time around Indianapolis' gay bars.
Michael would initially be reported missing on June 7th, but it is known that he was spotted
three days later in different parts of the city, riding in a stranger's car.
Again, the body of Michael would be found on June 16th, with the cause of death being
determined as strangulation.
There were no drugs or alcohol found in a blood test that was ran, but we all know how
investigators get when the victim is engaging in sex work.
It's like, oh, well maybe he just-
Ask for it.
It was a drug deal gone wrong or something.
He was asking for it.
He put himself in a dangerous situation.
Of course.
It's fucking gross.
And we'll see that.
Yeah, like everybody deserves to be taken advantage of if you happen to have, like, I
don't know, be down on your luck or in- people genuinely enjoy doing sex work.
Exactly.
I was like, what if it's a fucking joy?
I was like, who cares?
Yeah, you're just fucking living your life.
It doesn't mean that you're less than or- I mean, that's just stupid.
It's gross.
It's dumb.
They're not fucking lab rats, and even that's wrong.
Poor rats.
The months went by with seemingly mundane activities with Herb and his wife, and despite
the comment that the two were rarely intimate, they would welcome their second child, Eric,
in 1981.
A 22-year-old Maurice Allen Taylor would become the next victim of the I-70 Strangler when
his body was found on July 21st, 1982.
Maurice's body was found in the Weasel Creek in Hamilton County, Indiana, and while his
cause of death was not concrete, law enforcement commented that it looked awfully close to
strangulation.
Maurice was known as living in the boiler room of an apartment complex at the time of
his murder, and he was also known to have been engaging in sex work at the local gay
bars in order to make some money.
A few months later, on October 3, 1982, 14-year-old Delvoid Lee Baker's semi-nude body would be
located near a river in Hamilton County, Indiana.
Witnesses stated that they last saw Delvoid the previous night in downtown Indianapolis,
and he was riding in a blue van that was being driven by a young white man with a bushy
mustache.
When speaking with Delvoid's parents, they stated that he had left the previous night
on his bike and was heading to center town, but called them around 10.30 to let them know
he was going to be late as he wanted to go see a movie.
It would later be determined that Delvoid had been hanging around the same bars in
the area for a few months prior to his death and was also engaging in prostitution.
So he was telling his parents, like, I'm going to go downtown and see a movie, but he was
actually engaging in sex work?
I think so.
Yes.
After visiting a nightclub in the same area of town, a 22-year-old Michael Andrew or Mick
Riley would become the next victim of the I-70 Strangler.
He would last be seen on May 28, 1983 with an unidentified man, the same man that he
would leave the club with later that night.
Mick's nude body would be found in a ditch in Hancock County on June 5th, the autopsy
determining that he had also been strangled, likely with a towel.
Still working at the same company and becoming successful within his position, Herb and Julie
would welcome a third child to the world named Emily in 1984.
While Herb was making progress at his job, his hoped for promotion would not be fulfilled,
and in 1985 he would be terminated from his job after almost a decade.
It may seem odd that a man who held the same job for that long would get fired out of nowhere,
but it was not for no reason.
I bet not.
Herb would be let go from the company following an act in which he urinated on a letter that
was addressed to the then governor of Indiana, Robert D. Orr.
What?
Following this act, rumors began to spread around the business that Herb was also responsible
for the year-end that had been found on his manager's desk in the recent months.
Oh my god.
He's just going around pissing on stuff.
He's good.
He's good, yeah.
Shit on Debra's desk.
Why?
I get rejected.
Like a boss.
That's literally him.
So funny.
Like a boss.
He's gonna fuck a fish.
He's just trying to act like a boss.
So yeah, he gets fired from his job after he's been at for about 10 years.
Julie, who was a full-time stay-at-home mom prior to this, returned to work after Herb
got fired in order to provide for the family.
Herb, now a full stay-at-home dad, was known to be very loving and caring of his three
children.
However, a few months without employment would get the better of Herb, and he would quickly
turn to alcohol, and oh, he was also secretly frequenting the gay bars without Julie's knowledge.
While he's supposed to be watching the kids, would he just put him in a dog cage?
Well, I don't know if he's like leaving the kids to do so, but like around this time,
it comes out that he's like, comes out that he's so sick.
It comes out that he comes out.
I like that.
I was thinking about the janitor from Scrubs.
I don't know if you remember when Dr. Cox- is it Dr. Cox?
No, I think it's when Turk and Carla have the baby shower, and he's like the janitor,
like they open up the janitor's gift, and it's like a cage, like a dog cage.
And Carla's like, oh, is that for when we get the baby a puppy?
And he's like, what?
No, this is a baby cage.
You put some wood chips down so the baby can poop, and then you put the little water bottle
there so they can drink the water.
I'm kidding.
It's for when they buy the baby a puppy.
Yeah, or a hamster.
A giant hamster, yeah.
So yeah, I'm not sure exactly.
I don't think he was leaving the kids.
I think that he was like, maybe once Julie got home, he was like, oh, I'm going to go
out, and then he was going to these gay bars without her knowledge.
Yeah, he was going to go see a movie, quote unquote.
On May 7th, 1985, the shirtless body of 17-year-old Eric Allen Rodiger would be located near a
stream in Preble County, Ohio.
How old?
17.
Oh my God.
According to his parents, Eric had been planning to go to a couple of interviews for a summer
job on the day he disappeared, but he did not arrive to any of them.
Later research would determine that Eric also frequented the same bars that Herb and the
I-70 Strangler did, and he was also engaging with drug traffickers and addicts.
However, his friends and family would deny these comments.
When questioned, witnesses claimed that they had seen Eric at a bus stop early the same
morning, but rather than wait for the bus, he accepted a ride from a stranger.
When Eric's body was found, there was a clear burn mark on his shoulder, and it appeared
that he had been strangled with a rope.
I think we also have to remember that this is in the 80s, right?
Yes.
Where the AIDS epidemic was sweeping across queer gay culture, not just the communities,
rather not culture.
Yes.
But the communities, and then them not knowing what it was, who had it, all this stuff, and
it was like society was repulsed by gay men all over again.
Of course.
And there was also this shame of, I don't want to say, first of all that I'm gay because
people are going to not want to be with me, they're going to oust me and stuff like that,
but also I don't want to tell people that I'm gay now because then they're going to
reprimand me for still being gay when this AIDS thing is happening or whatever.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
And I think that they, and I mean, it went down to even a religious thing where even certain
religions were saying, this is a pandemic within the gay community because they're evil.
And this is essentially an eradication of gay people.
This is what happens.
So it's like, yeah, it was so bad.
Yeah.
It was so bad.
And we'll see, unfortunately, a lot of these people that go missing or get murdered are
very clearly not out gay men.
Yeah.
And that's another reason probably why police officers aren't going to do shit because they're
like, well, this community is getting eradicated.
You know what I mean?
Left and right by this disease, we have no idea what's going on.
And how it's spread.
And why would I want to continue to interview people?
Like, yeah, they don't know if it's airborne.
Yeah.
They don't know any of that.
So they're like, well, I'm not going to go into the communities and ask people questions.
Yeah.
Why would I make myself sick?
Yeah.
Nuts.
On September 3rd, 1985, Herb would be arrested after an incident in which he was drinking
and driving.
However, this did not result in any deaths and he would be arrested for a hit and run,
being let go on bail shortly after his arrest.
Herb would essentially be given a slap on the wrist for this charge, but he would be
arrested yet again on March 27th, 1986, after he stole a car from a friend of his.
The charges for this would be a class A misdemeanor for auto theft and a class D misdemeanor for
conspiracy to commit theft.
However, a slap on the wrist would be given for these charges as well after just one day
at trial.
Yeah.
Which is that Herb, better get your story straight.
Are you the stay at home dad that loves his kids?
Are you this fuck off asshole after 10 PM?
Yeah.
On August 15th, 1986, the body of 29 year old Michael Allen, Mike Glenn, would be located
in a ditch near Eaton, Ohio.
His name is Michael Allen, Mike Glenn.
His nickname is Mike.
Michael Allen or Mike Glenn.
Michael Allen Glenn.
Yes, that's his name.
Oh.
His body would be found wearing only underwear and strangulation marks that resemble the
rope were found on his neck.
Mike lived in a different house than his parents, unlike other victims, and he was known as
working as a handyman.
The exact date of his disappearance is unknown, and it would take investigators three years
to identify his body.
A few months later on November 12th, 1986, Dr. Herbert Eugene Baummeister would pass away
when Herb was just 40 years old.
The son, like Herb, they were talking about.
James Boyd Robbins Jr., 21, went missing on October 15th, 1987 at around 10 PM.
James had just left his mother's home in Indianapolis and was walking towards the southern
part of the city.
Two days later on October 17th, James's naked body was found in a ditch in Shelby County,
near I-70.
Police were able to speak with the two possible witnesses of this crime, but their stories
were conflicting, one stating that they had seen a red jeep while the other said they
had seen a Chevrolet.
James would be listed as another murder victim of the I-70 Strangler.
Meanwhile, having time being unemployed was causing Herb to drum up a business idea, and
after borrowing $4,000 from his mother, Herb and Julie would found and open a thrift store
by the name of Save a Lot.
Save Without the E, so it's Savalot.
This store would open its doors in 1988 in Indianapolis, and in May of the same year,
the two would also purchase property and a house named the Fox Hollow Farm.
This home was built on the Fox Hollow Farm just a year prior, and included 18 plus acres,
four bedrooms, 10 bathrooms, and 11,572 square feet of room.
Is this where he's getting his kicks, like he's getting his attention through this kind
of stuff?
I don't know, I feel like he's like, I'm just gonna become rich, and then he like
founds this business idea, and then he's like, let's buy this fucking house.
I think his mom might have helped him with it.
Yeah.
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Also included with the home, an indoor pool, a bar, a five-car detached garage, a second
floor outside deck, two horse stables with other features for owning horses and a pond.
It's a big old property.
Which is crazy.
I think in his mind, it might have been like a, if I make my lifestyle like I'm wealthy
and successful, then in turn it will happen.
Kind of a mindset.
I think it's like, again, it's when is the attention playing a part.
So one can assume he's this I-75.
I-70 Strangler?
I-70 Strangler.
One can assume he is this man.
However, I'm wondering, because as you're talking, I'm thinking BTK.
Like BTK very much had to have this normal outward appearance.
But even when he wasn't being pursued specifically, he then reached out to news stations and police
stations in order to gain that attention.
And so if he doesn't do that, I'm wondering if being in the public eye and being successful
in the public eye is a way that he's gaining that attention.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
Because I feel like BTK, for example, he was super narcissistic.
I don't think that Herb is narcissistic.
I think he just doesn't care.
So he's like, I don't care.
I'm going to make myself feel better by doing these things.
I don't care what anyone else thinks about me.
I don't want that fame.
I don't want that recognition.
And then of course, he's having the paranoid schizophrenia symptoms one can imagine because
it's been untreated.
I don't know, maybe that's why they kind of went out to a big property so that they didn't
have to be around neighbors and stuff.
I don't know.
I just feel like I don't think he has narcissistic tendencies.
I just feel like if I pissed on someone's desk, that's pretty extreme.
And I would probably want someone to know that it was me.
See, yeah, but I don't know if you wanted people to know it was him.
I think he just wanted to get back at someone because they pissed him off.
You know, I don't know.
I feel like I don't know.
I don't know how he thought.
I don't know.
On August 12th, 1989, the body of 26-year-old Steven Lynn Elliott was located in Preble
County, Ohio, near I-70.
Steven was found in just underwear with marks that resembled strangulation marks on his neck.
After speaking with the family, Steven's father had stated that Steven had come out
as gay 10 years prior and left the family home to engage in prostitution, developing
an alcohol addiction in the process.
On this time, her was just living it up.
He had made $50,000 in his first year of owning Save-A-Lot, and he would decide at this time
to open up a second store.
On August 14th, 1990, 32-year-old Clay Russell Boatman would disappear after leaving his
home in Richmond, Indiana.
His plan for the night was to visit a local gay bar by the name of Hour Place.
Hour Place?
Oh, I was like, we have one here, but it's Hour Bar.
Unfortunately, Clay would become the ninth known victim of the I-70 Strangler when his
body was discovered with signs of strangulation.
Clay, a licensed practical nurse, would be found by a group of children near Eden, Ohio.
Oh, that's awful.
How traumatizing.
I know.
When his family was spoken with about Clay's death, they would deny that Clay was gay.
Oh, so even in death, they were like, no, that's not him.
No, he's not gay.
That's awful.
On September 6th, 1990, a semi-nude corpse was located at an abandoned railroad track
near Greenville, Ohio.
This body would be identified as one Thomas Ray Clevenger, Jr., 18 years old.
Thomas grew up in a low-income neighborhood in Indianapolis, and shortly before his death,
he was noted as engaging in prostitution near the local gay bars to earn some money.
When speaking with Thomas's mother and sister, they would both vehemently deny that Thomas
was involved in these things.
You said vehemently, so beautifully.
I did.
I would put it in there on purpose, and I almost said vehemently again.
At this time, Herb, Julie, and their three children were living at the Fox Hollow Farm,
and business was booming.
However, Herb had been noted as becoming slightly domineering over Julie, treating her more like
an employee than a spouse.
Due to these tensions, Herb and Julie were fighting frequently, and in order to keep the
peace, Julie would take a step back from the business.
At the home, things were not as great as they may have seemed at the store, and Julie would
frequently take the children to Herb's mother's home in order to just get away from Herb.
She's like, okay, let's go.
We'll spend some time with my mother-in-law.
Oh, Herb's mother.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
It was noted around this time that while Herb did not seem to care much about the upkeep
of the home, he was very specific about how the poolhouse looked.
He would constantly keep the bar fully stocked, and it was noted that he even brought mannequins
home and would dress them up so that it looked like from the outside there was like a party
all the time.
Like a pool party?
Yeah, like a pool party.
Like, there's just always people here partying.
Yeah, it was always hanging out.
Although these things were strange, Julie was under the impression that Herb was spending
a lot of time at the shop while she was away with the kids, so she was like, whatever,
like, I don't know what he's doing.
He's probably just working.
I'm giggling to myself because I feel like his backyard looks like a Paxson.
Probably.
Yeah, like the mannequin's like, Paxson clothing on, hanging out in the back.
Like a home alone.
Yeah.
However, in the community surrounding the I-70 Strangler victims, people were still
going missing, but this time they were rarely being found.
On May 28th, 1993, 20-year-old John Lee or Johnny Bayer would go missing.
In the same year, on July 6th, 31-year-old Jeffrey Allen or Jeff Jones would also go
missing, both in Indianapolis.
Are they wearing Paxson right now?
20-year-old Richard Douglas Hamilton Jr. would go missing a few weeks later on July 31st,
1993, and just a week later, 27-year-old Alan Lee Livingston would go missing from the same
general area.
None of these missing men were recovered shortly after their disappearances, unlike the victims
of the I-70 Strangler, so authorities were hesitant to connect the crimes to the recent
killings.
However, they were aware of the disappearances, and around the early 90s, police would begin
investigating the string of missing people.
Oh, finally.
Great.
They noted that the men that were disappearing had very similar stories, backgrounds, age,
height, and weight of the victims of the I-70 Strangler.
The same day that Alan Livingston went missing happened to be the same day that another man,
34-year-old Manuel Rezendes, was last seen.
Manuel was a children's counselor from Lafayette, Indiana, who was visiting a local gay bar
in Indianapolis.
He would not be seen again from this point on.
The following year, on April 1st, 1994, 28-year-old Steven Sperlin Hale would go missing, and
28-year-old Alan Wayne Broussard would also go missing on June 6th, 1994.
Again, both men would be from the same general area as the others who had disappeared.
Following Alan's disappearance, his mother would contact one Virgil Van de Gryff, who
was highly respected and retired as the Marion County Sheriff.
Virgil had since opened a private investigation firm in Indianapolis that focused on missing
persons.
Once Virgil got wind of the disappearance of Alan, it was not long after that he would
catch the case of another missing person.
On July 22nd, 1994, 33-year-old Roger Alan Goodlett was last seen leaving his mother's
home with the intent of visiting a gay bar in Indianapolis.
Roger would not return home and would be reported missing, again with no body to determine what
happened.
I feel like this is going to be like House of Wax.
I'm not happy about it.
However, when questioning people close to the victim, it did come out that Roger was
seen interacting with one herb bowmeister at several of these bars about two weeks before
he disappeared.
And now they have a witness and how long is it going to take for them to speak to her?
It's got to be like the next never.
The next never.
It's got to be the next never.
I mean like literally we see it all the time.
People are like, I literally saw that man walking with that underage girl or vice versa
or whatever.
And it's like, oh okay, thanks for the info.
And then police never fucking follow up.
Yeah, but it's also like herb, like it's kind of apparent now that he's been like a regular
at these bars.
So I don't think that the police were like, oh that's weird that this guy that's a regular
at the bar has happened to be talking to one of our victims when he's here all the time.
So I don't think that they really felt the need to like pursue it.
I understand what you're saying, but I doubt the police were just hanging out in the community.
I'm sure they weren't.
They're probably like on either side of the outskirts just waiting for people to stumble
drunk one way or the other.
Virgil's definitely the exception here though, because he would begin distributing missing
persons flyers at the gay bars around the city.
And many customers were also interviewed.
Virgil would discover through his questions that Roger was last seen willingly entering
a blue car with Ohio license plates.
Following the posters put in the bars around town, Virgil would receive a phone call from
one Tony Harris, claiming that a patron at one of the bars, who called himself Brian Smart,
had likely killed a friend of his named Roger.
What?
Tony stated that Brian seemed to have a keen interest in the disappearance of Roger, and
he had actually attempted to kill him in the past, Tony.
What?
When asked to elaborate more about this, Tony stated that he was at the club one night when
he noticed that another man was very interested in the missing posters of Roger.
Tony had a gut feeling that this man may at least know something about what happened to
Roger.
Or recognize him because he's intently looking at the poster.
So yeah, so he approached him and made conversation.
The man introduced himself as Brian Smart and said that he was a landscaper in Ohio.
Tony would try to bring up Roger in the conversation, and he said that when he did so, Brian became
upset.
This did not deter the men from having more conversation, however, and later that night,
Brian was known as inviting Tony over to a house to go for a late night swim.
He stated that the home was a client of his that he was landscaping for while they were
out of town, so they would be able to like hang out there alone.
Tony would agree to this, and the two would travel to the home that Brian was staying
at.
Tony noticed that upon entering the home, there were a lot of moving boxes, and there
was also a lot of furniture, like more than there would be, but he's like, I don't know,
the house is getting worked on, like that's not that odd, you know.
But the oddest part was that it's not like bleach?
Yeah.
Probably.
So like cleaner, and there was tarps on the floor.
Jesus.
Brian would offer Tony a drink to which he refused, and shortly after, Brian would excuse
himself.
When he returned, Tony noticed that Brian was a lot more talkative than he was before.
Tony believed that Brian had done cocaine in his absence, but he didn't make a comment
about it.
Brian would then bring up the topic of autoerotic asphyxiation, and ask Tony if he would be
willing to engage in it with him.
Tony would agree reluctantly, and he stated that he then choked Brian with a garden hose
while Brian pleasured himself.
Oh my God, that escalated.
I know.
He's like telling all this to the cops, just like, yes, this would happen.
Yeah, and he was really into this garden hose.
Brian would then prompt Tony that it was time for them to switch places to which Tony would
again reluctantly agree, but he ultimately said yes.
Like, okay, sure.
However, it became very clear to Tony very quickly that Brian was not planning on releasing
the garden hose, and in response, Tony would pretend to pass out.
Brian would release the hose, and when Tony opened his eyes, he noted that Brian got scared
because he thought he was unconscious.
Oh shit, I thought you were fucking dead.
That's so scary.
Oh, following this, Tony would ask Brian to take him back home to which Brian would agree.
The two would casually talk on the way to Tony's home, and even spoke about meeting
up a second time the following week.
They're like, yeah, we can hang out again, blah, blah.
I'm sure Tony's just like, get me the fuck home, and I'm just gonna say whatever you
want.
Oh yeah, that was fun.
Virgil, hearing this, decided that it might be in the authorities best interest if this
meetup did happen, and police were able to listen in.
Oh, creepy though.
I know.
Tony would agree to doing this, however, when it came time for them to meet, Brian would
not show up.
Virgil would contact the police and turn the story over to them, because again, he's retired.
He's just in a missing persons unit.
Yeah.
A detective by the name of Mary Wilson would agree to take Tony to the area that he believed
the home was in, but unfortunately this came up with nothing.
Oh, he couldn't find it again?
He didn't.
Yeah, he wasn't, it was from another, like they were right on the border of Ohio and
Indiana.
He wasn't very familiar with Ohio, and so like when he went over, he didn't even know
where to go.
Which I guess is smart on quote unquote Brian's part.
Brian.
Unfortunately, police would ultimately hit a dead end when trying to locate this Brian
smart.
Meanwhile, Virgil had emphasized his suspicions to the Indianapolis Police Department as he
believed that even though there were no bodies, he was tracking a serial killer.
Again, Virgil is working in the missing persons unit, so he has not discovered any bodies.
This is not talking about the I-70 Stringler bodies.
Around this time, Herb's business was not keeping up success as he had hoped, and about
the same time his business went under, so did his marriage.
Ooh, who could see that coming?
I don't know, Julie.
On top of this, it was noted that around this time, Herb was beginning to treat his employees
really poorly, and there were many reports of him showing up to work smelling like alcohol.
Sounds like he's just on this.
Don't fucking care, yeah.
During this same year, Herb would be arrested yet again for drinking and driving in Rochester
and Indiana, but would subsequently be sentenced to just three days in jail and one year probation.
Oh, no, I'm miserable.
Three days.
During this same year, in 1994, Herb's 13-year-old son, Eric, was messing around in a wooded
area behind their home when he came across a partially buried human skeleton.
Oh my god.
No, oh my god.
Eric would immediately run to his mother and tell her what he found, who then told Herb,
Julie told Herb, like, what the hell?
Oh my god, he's like, you left your toys in the backyard again.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
Herb would brush this discovery off, stating that his father had used cadavers in the past
to study for his medical practice, and once his father died, Herb was cleaning out his
things when he came across an old cadaver which he then just buried in their yard.
Instead of, like, giving it to, I don't know, a fucking museum?
Or why the fuck would his dad have a cadaver at his house?
I don't know.
You know, like, just where you know my dad.
You know your grandfather was a doctor, right?
Yeah.
Your grandfather was a doctor, so that's why we have dead people in the backyard.
Even though the story was ridiculous, Julie and Eric reluctantly believed Herb.
Oh my god.
Julie.
While the business reached a full downfall and was in danger of closing, Herb was spending
more and more time in his pool house alone, where he would drink to excess and cry often.
Sorry, that's not funny.
The following year, 45-year-old Michael Frederick or Mike Kearron would be reported missing on
March 31st, 1995.
Mike had also been seen at one of the bars in the same area shortly before he went missing,
but again, nobody would be found.
On August 8th, 1995, 34-year-old Jerry Williams Comer was last seen, and his vehicle would
be located at Castleton Square Mall.
Jerry would fit the same general description of the men who had been going missing for
years prior, but his body would also not be found.
The same month, on August 29th, Brian Smart would return to the same bar that he originally
met Tony at, and Tony just so happened to be there.
I'm sorry, can I just go ahead and commend Tony for saving his own life?
Yes.
Like, during that, he felt so uncomfortable that he was just like, this isn't gonna happen.
Smart guy, because not only did he pretend to pass out, but he refused the drink that
he was offered when he first got there.
Could have been drugged.
Tony was actually able to remain calm, and he would sneakily grab the license plate of
the car that Brian was driving as he was leaving the bar.
Tony would give the license plate number to Mary Wilson, the detective, who would use
it to begin finding out the truth of the driver.
Mary would run the plate, and as she would discover more about the owner, Herb Baumeister,
it became clear that Tony narrowly escaped a dangerous serial killer.
In November of the same year, 1995, a 49-year-old herb would be confronted at his own store
that was barely hanging on by a thread.
Mary would speak with Herb and inform him that he was a suspect in an investigation into
several missing men, and she asked if investigators could search his home in order to rule him
out.
They didn't have a warrant.
Herb would refuse as the police did not have authority and stated that any other correspondence
should be through his lawyer.
Mary would oblige, and would instead contact Julie in hopes that she would want to help
her.
She'd say, well, I'll just talk to your wife.
Julie was extremely shocked by the things that police told her, but she would also ultimately
refuse to search.
The next step was to try to get Hamilton County officials to issue a search warrant, but since
the evidence was mostly circumstantial, this didn't work either.
Over the next six months, Herb was noted as suffering an extreme mental breakdown, and
the issues with Julie would just explode.
I mean, I'd say so.
Right now, he's being investigated for the missing people only.
The missing people only, but still, it's like, come on.
It's like fuck.
Yeah.
I'm saying he knows that he's in the pooper right now.
Save a Lot would completely go out of business in June of 1996, and Julie would file bankruptcy
for the company.
It seemed as though Julie was really torn about how she felt about the situation, but
she kept going back to the skeleton that was found in the yard and thinking that it maybe
wasn't as easy as an explanation that Herb had given her.
She's like, God, I don't know.
That's so weird.
It's just so suspicious.
He's burying people in the backyard.
I don't care if it is for his father's medical research.
That's still weird.
It's just strange.
And now he's being investigated for missing persons cases?
Gosh.
I just, you know, what are you going to do?
Julie would make the decision to file for divorce and would almost immediately tell
Mary about the skeleton that her and her son had discovered two years prior.
Julie would also give permission for authorities to search the property while Herb and Eric
were actually out of town, so they had left.
I don't know why, but they did.
Finally Julie would phone her lawyer.
Julie would later recount her and Herb's entire marriage stating that the two only
engage in intimate behavior six times over their 25-year marriage and she never once
saw Herb naked.
How did they have kids?
They only had sex six times.
They had three kids.
They could have tried twice each.
Three years of kids.
Yeah, exactly.
That's the only time.
I just think that that's important to note because like that, like he's over here saying,
I mean, he's very obviously troubled with his sexuality.
And that is another thing that shows it, you know.
On June 24th, 1996, Mary Wilson and three officers approached the patio of the Bowmeister
home.
Upon arriving, they immediately noticed that the small rocks around the area that the children
would play were actually bone fragments.
Like those are pebbles.
My God.
They're toes.
Oh my God.
This would confirm this suspicion.
An entire excavation would be put into place immediately.
Bone fragments were found everywhere, even some on the neighbor's property.
What?
I mean, it gets kicked up and pushed around as time goes on.
Early searches of the property came up with around 5,500 fragments of bone and teeth and
were estimated to be from around 11 different men.
I'm sorry, but like how do you not know?
I mean, I don't...
She's gone a lot though with the kids.
She's taken the kids away a lot.
Maybe she thinks they're rocks.
I don't know.
I don't...
Okay.
We have very similar looking pebbles in our backyard.
Do we?
Those rocks by the pool?
I guess so.
Literally by the pool.
Those are actually rocks.
I mean, they're actually rocks.
Don't look into it.
But like they kind of resemble the same color as maybe bone mixed with dirt or something.
Yeah.
I guess.
So at this time forensic analysts were able to positively determine that some of these
were the remains of 34 year old Roger Goodlett, 26 year old Stephen Hale, and 20 year old Richard
Hamilton.
These are just...
These are three of the missing men I talked about earlier.
Upon this discovery, Julie became extremely upset, obviously, and additionally very fearful
for her son, Eric, who was with Herb.
The police were thinking the same thing, especially since Herb and Julie were in the
beginning parts of their divorce.
Yeah, it's like the most dangerous time.
Police and Julie would agree that for Eric's safety, Herb should be served with custody
papers and demanded to return the children before police tipped him off that he was in
trouble or that they found anything.
Herb would be served with the papers and he would turn Eric over to Julie without incident.
Good.
It is thought that Herb figured that these papers were just like standard procedure from
the divorce, he's like whatever.
Shortly after this, Herb would discover that there was a warrant issued for his arrest due
to the things that were located on the property.
In response to this, Herb would flee to Ontario to evade capture.
That's in Canada for our non-this side of the pond listeners.
Herb would arrive at Pineary Provincial Park on Lake Huron.
It would ultimately take it upon himself to shoot himself in the head of ending his life.
No!
Are you serious?
Yes.
I'm shook.
I have full body heaves.
What?
Along with Herb's body, a three page suicide note was written explaining the things that
Herb felt badly about.
In the note, Herb wrote about how he felt poorly about his ending marriage and failing business,
among other things such as getting the area that he died messy.
He also mentioned that he was originally going to kill himself somewhere else, but there
were a lot of kids around and he just didn't really feel cool doing that.
Oh yeah, think of the kids.
Herb also explained that his last meal was a peanut butter sandwich.
Why?
Why would he care?
It's a three page thing.
You gotta include some detail and you can't get three pages out of it.
He can't wrap up his life so he's gonna talk about what he had for lunch.
The most bizarre thing however was the fact that not once in the note did Herb take responsibility
for or even acknowledge that the stuff that was found on his property was found.
And it definitely sounds like Callis of me to be like, somebody wrote a suicide note and
they talked about what they had for lunch.
But that's why I'm saying is that he cares to talk about that, but he doesn't choose
to talk about the victims.
Not only does he not take responsibility, he doesn't even acknowledge that that evidence
was found.
He never once says like, and I know you found stuff on my property and I'm not gonna acknowledge
it at all.
So he essentially blamed his ending marriage for him taking his own life.
Yes, exactly.
He was like, this is why I'm killing myself.
It has nothing to do with those bodies that you fucking found.
I have no idea what that's about.
I didn't even mention them.
Has nothing to do with the bone fragments that the children have been playing in for
the last 12 years.
Yes.
Cool.
Herb Boughmeister would die on July 3rd, 1996 at the age of 49.
Since Herb died before he could be arrested or charged, police were left to determine
that the bodies found in his home were murders that he was responsible for.
So the initial search, like I said, had come up with like, they said enough bone remains
and fragments for, they think up to 11 men, but they had only positively ID'd 4, like
at this point or 3.
Julie was known to have done an interview in 1996 in which she states about Herb's crimes,
quote, our biggest question now is how he could have loved us and done this.
Happiness as we knew it is never going to return, end quote.
The answer is Julie is that he didn't, unfortunately, and I hate to sound like that, but honestly,
you were probably a pawn.
You were probably a cover for him, and that's an awful feeling, and I can't even imagine
what that must feel like.
Like you have no idea who this person you married is.
I can't imagine that at all.
Throughout the excavations, over 10,000 pieces of bone and teeth were ultimately found at
Fox Hollow Farm.
So initially, like I said, those few victims had been discovered, but essentially investigators
collected everything they could, and then there was kind of no more leads to identifying
other people for the time being.
Yeah, just through testing and stuff.
Do you think that he purposely bought this giant property so that he could start bringing
victims onto the property because he knew eventually if he kept dumping bodies, he
would get caught?
Yes, but I never said he was the I-70 Strangler.
Oh yeah, that's right.
My bad.
I think he brought that big property so that he had places to put his victims.
Correct.
I see.
Okay.
Just saying.
Hold that out there for the record.
It seems entirely the episode is fine.
Hamilton County Coroner-elect Jeff Jellison announced on November 28, 2022 that he hoped
the way technology has advanced will be helpful to discovering the IDs of the remaining remains.
So this is in 2022?
2022.
So it's been a very long time since it was last discovered in 96 where the remains.
On the property, okay.
Yes.
Unfortunately, a few years after the case, most of the evidence had been put away and
overlooked by other and newer crimes.
Jeff stated about this quote, for the past 26 years, these people have been placed on
a shelf at the University of Indianapolis and that is not acceptable.
We need to make every effort possible to identify these people and return them to their loved
ones.
End quote.
Well, do you think it's also because again, even at the time in 96, they were gay men?
No, I really think that it was just because there was so fucking much.
There was over 10,000 fragments.
Yeah.
That had probably been not to be morbid, but stepped on, kicked around, rained on, flooded,
you know, like I just don't think it was possible with the technology they had to identify more
than those couple victims in the beginning.
Jeff would continue with the statement about the amount of evidence quote, we have a huge
job in front of us.
However, I have confidence this team of police officers and forensic specialists will exhaust
all efforts to identify the individuals that were brutally murdered and discarded on her
bowmeister's property.
End quote.
Carelessly as well.
Yeah.
They even like buried them and then they were so far deep that the kids wouldn't play in
the bodies, you know, like that's that's care.
Let's careless.
Whatever.
He really didn't care.
I heard somewhere that he also like burned the bodies and that's why they like were
made into bone fragments so quickly.
I didn't really read anything about that except for one article.
So I don't know if that's true or not.
Yeah.
But I just wanted to put that out there because it was like, obviously, if you dump a corpse,
it's going to be more noticeable than like bones.
Yeah, that's true.
But again, you know, with the wildlife and stuff like that, they could carry stuff back
onto the property closer to the house or whatever.
On December 4th, 2022, a new search of the home was done and it or not the home, but
the area and investigators came across one bone and about 20 other locations that may
have more remains under their ground.
Jeff stated about this discovery quote, it's time now to reexamine, take a look and see
where we're at with this.
Let's look at this again.
Let's get as many of these people identified as we possibly can and begin to get some closure
for some families of missing people.
On October 17th, 2023, the Hamilton County Coroner's Office announced that they had
positively ID their remains of Alan Livingston, who was just 27 when he went missing in 1993.
Jeff Jellison stated about this quote, I would like to thank the entire team of law
enforcement and forensic specialists that have come together to support this effort.
A special thanks goes to the hardworking people at the Indiana State Police Laboratory, whose
expertise in DNA led to the identification of Alan Livingston.
In January of 2024, another set of remains that were taken from the Balmeister property
had been determined to be those of 34 year old Manuel Rezendas who went missing in 1993.
That was in this January?
Yes.
That was in January of 2024.
A few weeks ago, investigators announced that they had positively identified remains belonging
to Jeffrey A. Jones who went missing at the age of 31 in 1993.
These discoveries are credited to Jeff Jellison who encouraged potential family members to
come forward and utilize genealogy technology that has been advancing and it has paid off.
I can't imagine having a missing relative since 96 or beyond that.
93.
And what is that?
20, 30 years later?
Yeah.
30 something years later?
Yep.
That's wild.
While other victims mentioned earlier in this story have been positively ID'd as victims,
obviously I said their names earlier, according to the amount of remains located, there are
multiple other men who have been missing and have not yet been identified.
Anybody who thinks they may be related to any missing persons in this case may contact
the coroner's office at 317-770-4415-4415.
As far as the I-70 Strangler goes, while there are many indications that it was her
bowmeister, this has never been determined to be true.
Really?
Never have they, they have sufficient evidence that it's widely thought, but it's not, no
cooperative evidence.
No cooperative evidence.
Affirmed that it was true.
Wow.
So there are a couple of people that they also think it might be, one being a man by
the name of Duncan Patterson.
There's another guy named August or Gus Cadio and Larry Eiler.
If I talked about all of them, it would take forever, but essentially like their MO's didn't
necessarily line up or they were out of town at a couple of times the bodies were found
or whatever, so like it just doesn't add up.
And Julie was able to give investigators corroborating evidence showing when her was
out of the house and out of town that all lines up with the I-70 Strangler.
Interesting.
But again, it's never been fully confirmed.
And the I-70 Strangling's essentially ceased when they moved to the house.
Correct.
Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, the timeline, the method of operation and other factors,
such as the fact that they stopped being dumped on the side of the road pretty much as soon
as he bought this property, shows that it may have been him.
And he actually was a prime suspect in the case at the time of his death.
Prior.
Yeah, prior to his death.
Interesting.
Yes, and then I was just also gonna say some people actually believe that Herb has been
used as a scapegoat of sorts so that police can just close the I-70 Strangler book and
say that it's been solved or taken care of.
And they're like, oh, which is put it on him and that the true perpetrator got away with
it.
Yeah.
That's just some people, they think that.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, the I-70 Strangler could have been a police officer themselves.
We've seen that.
I don't know.
And then he's like, oh, well, this person is being blamed for the crime, so I'm just gonna
stop killing.
I just thought that that was super interesting.
I had to play it up like that because I was like, I can't say Herb killed these people
in the beginning because I don't know because it's not confirmed.
Interesting.
I'm not referring to them as the I-70 Strangler.
I didn't even say he, I said they.
Like the I-70 Strangler, they did this.
Non-singer specific.
Yeah, exactly because I'm gonna fucking know.
It could have been Julie.
Yeah.
No, don't blame them on Julie.
It was Julie this whole time, Julie.
So yes, that is Herb Boundmeister.
Thank you, James, for the recommendation.
That was a very interesting case.
And we do know, like I said earlier, he was diagnosed very early on with paranoid schizophrenia,
obviously now known as part of the schizophrenic spectrum.
And essentially, if you haven't brushed up on your thing or listened to the episode we
did on it, essentially it precepts your reality, your perception of, excuse me, it distorts
your perception of reality and your environment.
You can have auditory, visual hallucinations.
That can cause you to get scared or something, again, not excusing, just explaining.
And then of course, antisocial personality disorder, very withdrawn from other people's
emotions, essentially like no lack of sympathy or empathy.
So killing, unfortunately, sometimes happens in the absence of treatment with people with
that disorder.
I feel like maybe I could definitely see the antisocial personality disorder pop.
But the schizophrenia, I don't know, spectrum disorder, I think that, yeah, I think you're
right with the, maybe he got paranoid about getting caught and it was so severe that he
decided to buy a property if he was the I-70 stranger.
But even if he wasn't, the fact that he chose to bury them on his own property.
That's dissociative for sure.
I feel like dissociative and again, the paranoia or potential paranoia or hallucination about
being caught if he were to go dump the body somewhere else.
Yeah, if he wasn't, yeah, you're right, if he wasn't the strangler.
He would rather put his children in the backyard playing with the I-70.
Which is gross.
Well, I'm just glad that his children are okay and that Julie is okay.
But I actually don't know where Julie is, I'm not sure she's even alive.
I can look it up really quick.
Do it.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
I'm on my computer so you can hear me typing.
I really want to put all my stickers on the back of my laptop.
You have yours from the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival 23.
I think they're so cute.
They are.
I love the way my computer looks.
So I actually can't find much on Julie, which tells me that she might still be alive because
I feel like there would have been an obit or something if she had passed away.
But I also just read that the current homeowners are people that are actually living at Fox
Hollow Farm and they said that they think that Herb's presence is there.
It's creepy.
Even though he didn't die there.
He flew, I guess, afterwards.
Julie by, what did you say?
Bymeister.
Widow not convicted, that's the only thing I found.
Well, good.
Well, I hope Julie's doing okay.
I hope the kids are doing all right or like us are adults now.
But yeah, thanks again, James for the recommendation and we hope that we did it justice.
And is there anything else that you have?
Oh, she was on Oprah.
Interesting.
Well, that's a Google that.
That's probably on YouTube somewhere.
Somewhere.
We're on O.
O Network.
Is it still around?
Actually, I think they canceled O Network.
Yeah, I think they did.
Anyways, let's get out of here.
Okay.
Love you.
Bye.
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