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Hello!

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Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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I'm Kena.

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I'm Koel.

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How's it going?

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Pretty good.

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I feel like we just need to merge this as how's it going?

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How's it going?

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We say that all the time now.

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It's so true.

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It's been a day.

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I feel like I've done so much today, but also like nothing at all.

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And I found out today that Willie Pickton was moided in prison.

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Moided?

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Moided.

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He was, apparently I didn't really read much of it, but he was attacked like a while ago,

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like a few weeks ago, and then I guess he succumbed to his injuries.

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Yeah, I think I did read something about him getting attacked.

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It was like a sharpened broomstick or something, and it was like a single blow into his skull.

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Great.

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Not even getting...

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I mean, I can't say I'm upset.

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If you haven't listened to that episode, go listen to that episode and then you'll understand.

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Yeah.

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That's all I gotta say about that though.

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Do you have anything?

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Just, that's a wild development.

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I think the only other development that I've seen recently is that I think Gypsy Rose is

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gonna be on an episode of the Kardashians.

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I saw that, and she has a new series coming out as well, like Life After Prison.

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And she's now...

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The first one aired, I think.

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Oh yeah.

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And she's now redating her ex, I think.

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Ex-Francita, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So Ryan Anderson actually started a TikTok as well.

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Oh really?

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Yeah, but he's like, I don't know if it's like an act or what, but he is like so many people

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in the comments are trying to get me to trash Gypsy, and he's like, I'm just not gonna do

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anything like that.

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I can tell my own side of the story without having to essentially bring someone else down.

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There you go.

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And I was like, what a dude.

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Yeah, he seems like a nice guy.

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He'll be fine.

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From what we can see.

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Me, he's making a gay.

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He's making a gay.

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I don't know.

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Oh, Tommy Boy.

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Oh, your nails look pretty.

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We both have their nails.

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Please.

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Oh my god.

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My other like, I don't know what you call this.

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You're a descent.

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You're a descent.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Before we get into this fukin' case, do you want to give everyone our social media

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handles and maybe remind them of something fun that's coming up soon?

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Sure.

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You can check us out on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer, other than ex formerly

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known as Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnoses.

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Not Diagnoses, but Diagnoses.

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There you go.

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You know what I'm saying.

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We also have a PayPal, Venmo, and Cashrop, if you would like to support us monetarily.

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Or if you want, you can sign up for that Patreon that we got going on.

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We actually have four tiers now.

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So our first tier will get ad-free mental breakdown episodes.

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Tears two, three, and four will get the ad-free regular episodes and mental breakdowns.

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And then our tier threes and fours will receive that additional bonus episode towards the

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end of the month every month.

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Yes.

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The most recent one was Pretty Gnarly.

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So if you want to join those people that are already part of that, go ahead and go to

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patreon.com slash Diagnosing a Killer.

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It just takes a few minutes to sign up.

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Yes.

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We also have the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival happening in July.

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Kenna's birthday weekend.

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I'm super excited.

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Use our code DAK to receive an additional 13% off of those tickets.

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Yeah, I'm super looking forward to that.

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And then I know Crimecon just ended.

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It was at Nashville this year, but we have actually inquired again about going to Crimecon

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hopefully next year, fingers crossed.

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Now that we're getting some more downloads because of our lovely listeners, you guys

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are really helping us get our name out there, so we're really hoping to be able to do that

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next year.

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Yeah, we can like, we'll keep it blank.

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We could be like rubbing elbows with like, dateline.

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Oh yeah.

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In like, 2020.

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Absolutely.

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And what's Nancy Grace?

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What's her?

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Nancy Drew or Nancy Grace?

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Who is she?

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Nancy Grace.

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Nancy Grace.

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That was right the first time.

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Nancy Grace.

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All those people, like Elizabeth Smart I think is doing work with True Crime Daily I think.

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I would love to like pick all those people's brains straight up.

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You know who might be there next year?

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Who?

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Chipsy Rose Blanchard.

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Oh, you're right, she may.

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Right?

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That's actually a good point.

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She's been such an advocate for Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen Syndrome by proxy.

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It's true.

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It's pretty interesting.

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Yeah.

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Do you have anything else before we get into this case?

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Nope.

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I'm just gonna sit back and listen to you.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so today we actually have another request.

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So today we are going to be talking about one herb bowmeister who has been requested

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by listener James.

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So thank you James.

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Who is this?

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You don't know him.

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No, I don't.

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I didn't know either about the case, but when I was like doing my research, all these people

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have covered him and it's like a very well-known case and I'm like, I'm embarrassed.

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I hope I, I don't know.

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I'm excited to be gag-gooped and odd.

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I'm excited to bring the case and once again thank you James for the suggestion.

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This one's for you.

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Ready?

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Yes.

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Here we go.

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Content Warning.

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This episode contains depictions of animal cruelty, verbal abuse, negative ideations

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of minority groups, sexual fetishes including asphyxiation, suicide, and ultimately brutal

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murder.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health is very important and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Herbert Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis, Indiana on April 7th, 1947 to Dr. Herbert

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Eugene Baumeister and Elizabeth Schmidt Baumeister.

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It's a doctor.

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A doctor?

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Are you the doctor?

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Herbert Sr. was an anesthesiologist and I actually couldn't find what Elizabeth did

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for work, but it was in 1940 so she was probably a homemaker.

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Well, well.

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Well, well, it didn't work, right?

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Jokes on you, she was working in a mine.

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Right?

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She's like, fuck you.

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Herb would be the first child born to his parents, but the family would go on to have

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three more children, Barbara in 1948, Brad in 1954, and Richard in 1956.

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Soon after Richard was born when Herb was nine, the family would move to the affluent

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area of Indianapolis called Washington Township.

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Herb's childhood was reportedly normal while he was growing up, but when he reached adolescence,

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he began showing signs of antisocial behavior.

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On top of this, by the time he was 14, Herb was engaging in some very strange behaviors

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such as urinating on his teacher's desk, putting a dead crow that he found on the road

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on his teacher's desk, and generally having a very dark sense of humor and interest.

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So he's just a cat.

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He's like, have this dead bird on me pee on you because I claim you.

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That's a good point, I didn't even think about that.

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He's just a feline.

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He's just a cat person.

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Just like, again, his childhood upbringing, again, not a lot of information.

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We normally see that, but then it's like he reaches his teen years and now he's acting

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out in very grotesque kind of ways that you wouldn't normally see.

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Yeah, that's very strange.

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I feel like those are certain behaviors that come with a very detached feeling of abandonment

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just because I see it a lot with foster kids, kids that urinate in like plants and things

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like that.

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It's a behavior that's kind of, I mean, I hate using this word, but like feral.

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It's almost like I don't care what kind of attention I get, even if it's negative attention,

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at least I'm getting attention.

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And I think that might be how he was feeling.

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Herb would attend North Central High School and as well as his extracurricular activities,

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he was active in the geology, government, international relations, chess, and biology

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clubs.

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So he's a very busy kid.

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Yeah.

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Friends around this time were noticing that Herb was changing and had developed thoughts

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and ideas that his other classmates just didn't share.

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Super macabre.

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Of these, one of the more notable thoughts that Herb voiced was the fact that he used

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to quote, ponder what it would be like to taste human urine and quote.

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What?

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He has like a urine fetish.

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Oh.

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Well, I don't think that about foster kids.

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Yeah.

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No, it was a little bit different.

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A little different.

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Around this time, it was not only Herb's friends and classmates that were noticing his bizarre

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behavior and his father would quickly take notice of Herb's oddness.

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He's a doctor.

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He's a anesthesiologist, but he has medical experience.

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Maybe he has psychological experience.

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Yeah.

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Seemingly wanting to maintain a picture perfect family, Dr. Baumeister would take Herb to get

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evaluated by a psychiatrist but would do so without telling anybody else.

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Once it like under the radar.

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Following this evaluation, Herb would leave with the diagnoses of paranoid schizophrenia

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and antisocial personality disorder.

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At what age?

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He was like 15.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Which is, that's early for personality disorder.

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Well, I don't know.

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I feel like it's a little early for schizophrenia.

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Yeah.

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Because usually that's like late teens, early 20s.

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Other than, other than Mark David Chapman when he was having those hallucinations when

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he was like what, eight?

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Yeah.

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But there's, again, it's not like a specific, like every single person's going to get at

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this time in their life.

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So it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

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Even though he left with these diagnoses, they would actually go untreated and Herb

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would not visit any other professionals following this evaluation.

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Gotta love it.

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Like regularly.

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Yeah.

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Gotta love it.

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That's how we see this all the time happen, you know?

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So he just goes back to school.

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And back at school while Herb was involved in certain clubs, like I said earlier, the

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school was known for their sports environment.

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And since Herb was not involved or even interested in sports, he would quickly fade into the

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background and become like an outcast of sorts.

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People stating that he, quote, just didn't blend in and quote.

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Like he didn't just like kind of flow into the way that the school worked.

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But he had all these like things that he was already doing.

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Yes.

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But do you think that he was trying those things out because of the acceptance?

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Like he's like, I can try a multitude of things and surely I'll find friends or someone

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I can connect with through this avenue.

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Possibly.

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I think that what the students when they say, oh, I just didn't blend in.

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It's not that he didn't have a spot where he could fit in in school, but like they had

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said like the school was super sports forward.

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So it was probably like the popular kids and the jocks that were saying this.

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Oh, he just didn't fit in, you know, with us.

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So who's to say he didn't fit in with other kiddos?

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Yeah.

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He just didn't learn in sports because he couldn't have been the only person in that

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school not involved in sports.

256
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Yeah.

257
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,560
He just had no eye hand coordination.

258
00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:13,480
This guy sucks.

259
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,600
Well, he also like didn't really find much solace in those groups either.

260
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,640
I think what you were saying, yeah, he might have been trying to find it, but it just didn't

261
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,720
work out for him.

262
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:29,240
So due to this lack of support at school, Herb would begin to self isolate further falling

263
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,560
into the symptoms of his illnesses.

264
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:37,160
Herb would spend many hours alone and had generally no interest in outside activities

265
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,640
or even connecting with anyone on a romantic level.

266
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,040
He's like, I don't care about girls.

267
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,040
I don't care about guys.

268
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:48,240
You know, I just want to be by myself, which is super like it's not like people when they

269
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,440
hear anti social, that's what they think.

270
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,920
That's not what that really means.

271
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,720
It means that they don't care about anything.

272
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,000
It's not that they like intentionally avoid people.

273
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,800
Yeah, they don't intentionally withdraw or yeah, but yeah, isolate, but people with on

274
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,880
this different spectrum are known to withdraw because they're having an internal battle

275
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,880
almost sometimes they have hallucinations that maybe cause them to withdraw without

276
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,640
them even noticing it.

277
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,240
In the year 1965 at the age of 18, Herb would graduate high school and enroll himself in

278
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,040
Indiana University.

279
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,280
Herb would ultimately spend just one semester here, however, and he would quickly drop out

280
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,080
only to return a couple of years later in 1967.

281
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,000
Do you know what he was going to school for?

282
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,640
I don't.

283
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,560
I don't think it was like he wasn't like trying to follow his dad.

284
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,160
Yeah, no, no, no, he wasn't in men's school.

285
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,800
I think he was just like, this is what you do.

286
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,920
Like you go to college up in school.

287
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:48,600
While in college, Herb would meet a woman by the name of Juliana or Julie Seder.

288
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,520
The two would quickly relate on their conservative views and would begin dating.

289
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,920
At the age of 20, still in 1967, Herb would drop out of Indiana University and began working

290
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,280
a series of jobs.

291
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,880
Here his bizarre behavior would only increase, but it was usually overlooked by employers

292
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480
because Herb was known to have a really strong work ethic.

293
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,600
So it's like, yeah, he's kind of a weirdo, but like he's a hard worker, so like whatever.

294
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,240
That's kind of unnerving.

295
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,520
I know.

296
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:22,600
Because I feel like there's probably a lot of people throughout your lives that you probably

297
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,920
worked with and were like, well, he's a really hard worker, but he's a little weird, maybe

298
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,160
not a little weird, but you know what I'm saying?

299
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,160
Got a lot of passion.

300
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,600
Got a lot of passion for that.

301
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,400
That passion needs to go somewhere positive because it goes elsewhere.

302
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,240
But like how interesting and polite we are as people to just be like, well, he works

303
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:44,240
hard.

304
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:45,240
Yeah.

305
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:46,240
You want to give him the benefit of the doubt?

306
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,240
Yeah.

307
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,240
You always want to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

308
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,600
You don't want to be like, well, he's probably like going to do something weird because he's

309
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:51,600
weird, you know?

310
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,600
Yeah.

311
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:53,600
Yeah.

312
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:54,600
I don't know.

313
00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:00,040
In November of 1971, a 24-year-old herb would tie the knot with Julie.

314
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,160
They didn't get married immediately.

315
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,680
They dated for like a couple years.

316
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,680
While they had a long relationship, Julie was noted as stating that the two did not

317
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:14,160
share many intimate moments and she never ever saw herb naked, which whatever, but like

318
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,120
she noted it as being a little odd.

319
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,120
Yeah.

320
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,840
So it was like, we've been together for like years and like he never wants to do that.

321
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,840
But again, it's too much of a zone.

322
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:23,840
Right.

323
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:24,840
Yeah.

324
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,120
Just six months into their marriage, herb would be admitted to a psychiatric hospital

325
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,120
once again at the request of his father, but also with the nudge of Julie, who stated that

326
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,640
herb was quote, hurting and needed help, end quote.

327
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:39,640
Hmm.

328
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,200
Again, he has untreated mental disorders.

329
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,200
True.

330
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,800
And they've been untreated for about a decade now.

331
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:44,800
Yeah.

332
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:45,800
So it's like, okay.

333
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,800
It's time.

334
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,120
Herb would spend two months admitted in this facility, but it would not tear apart the

335
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,640
marriage and he and Julie would go back to their lives following his return home.

336
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,600
There is not much known about the time Herb spent in the facility or even the true reasons

337
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,320
behind his readmittance.

338
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,480
However, still went untreated after this.

339
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,720
Hmm.

340
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,480
Once Herb was released, his father was able to get him a job as a copy boy for the Indianapolis

341
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,520
Star and he would be tasked with running reporters stories to and from each other as well as

342
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,440
other small errands.

343
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,960
So this was an entry level, almost intern like position.

344
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,680
Herb would quickly get under the skin of his superiors with this constant need for positive

345
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:27,680
feedback.

346
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:28,880
He's like, okay, tell me that I'm doing good.

347
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,440
Like, what can I do while Blod's like, dude, just get me fucking coffee and like chill out.

348
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,440
Yeah.

349
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,840
Organizing his hangers.

350
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:36,840
Yeah.

351
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,120
He's like, two sugars.

352
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,320
I might just be wanting a bagel with my coffee.

353
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,320
Exactly.

354
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,120
I can tell you what you can do.

355
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,920
Additionally, Herb would continuously try to find things to help him fit in with his

356
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,160
coworkers, but with no success as they were kind of turned off by his on behaviors.

357
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,920
And this is now obviously he's noticing this is a theme not only in his childhood now in

358
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,960
high school and now in college and now in his workplace.

359
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,840
Herb was not having much luck with this position and he would ultimately leave to take another

360
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,740
position with the Bureau of Motor Vehicles in 1974.

361
00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:14,480
With this new job, Herb decided to approach this position in a different way.

362
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,240
Instead of using his desperate positive feedback seeking ways, Herb was now acting bossy and

363
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:20,760
aggressive towards his coworkers.

364
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:21,760
That's what you want.

365
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,080
Complete opposite.

366
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,200
He was known as lashing out at his peers, utilizing what he believed was a good supervisor's

367
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,200
attitude.

368
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,800
He's like, well, if I want to be the boss, I got to act like the boss.

369
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:32,800
The boss is an asshole.

370
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,040
I was going to be a boss.

371
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,920
However, with this new pompous attitude, the bizarre behavior did not stop.

372
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:45,120
And Herb's coworkers quickly began to think of him as an oddball once again.

373
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,600
One year around the holidays, Herb was noted as sending out a Christmas card to everyone

374
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:56,400
at work that included a photo of him and another man dressed in festive drag.

375
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:57,400
Very random.

376
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,480
Moment of silence for that card.

377
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,200
Being that it was the early 70s, many people seemed upset by the charade and this earned

378
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,040
Herb less respect in the workplace.

379
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,600
You thought it was funny?

380
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,160
I don't know what he thought.

381
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,200
I don't know if it was even on purpose.

382
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,600
I think that, I don't know.

383
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,720
How do you accidentally mail that to everyone?

384
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,520
I mean, I know email existed in the 70s.

385
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,520
Yeah.

386
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:24,160
Do you think it was actual full on drag or you think he was trying to be a bearded lady?

387
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,520
No, I think it was actual full on drag.

388
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,840
Like with the eyelash man and the...

389
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:30,840
Well, I'm not sure.

390
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,480
Oh, are you saying that like, okay, so this was probably a private photo?

391
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:35,480
I think so.

392
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,120
That he then leaked himself?

393
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,120
I think so.

394
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:39,120
Then another man.

395
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:40,120
Interesting.

396
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:41,120
Yes.

397
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:45,600
Following this card being sent out, rumors began to spread around the workplace that

398
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,240
Herb was a closet homosexual and also completely crazy.

399
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,240
Oh my gosh.

400
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,240
I know.

401
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,240
All right.

402
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,960
Despite the rumors and overall awkward work environment, Herb would keep this job for

403
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,360
a decade, increasing his position slowly over time.

404
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:00,880
Because he's a hard worker.

405
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,280
They're like, let's just look past that, like these little things when we think about it.

406
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,400
Let's look past the fact that he made fun of people in drag.

407
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,400
Exactly.

408
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:15,000
Meanwhile, Herb and Julie were still married and beginning to evolve into starting a family.

409
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,480
When Herb was 32 in 1979, he and Julie would welcome their first child, Marie, into the

410
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,720
world.

411
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:28,120
Beginning in June of 1980, an unidentified American serial killer by the nickname of

412
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,920
the I-70 Strangler was beginning their reign of terror that would last over the course

413
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,680
of 11 years.

414
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,960
On June 16th, 1980, 15-year-old Michael Sean Pantry would become the first victim of this

415
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,600
heinous killer.

416
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,600
Despite his young age, Michael was engaging in male prostitution and would spend most

417
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,840
of his time around Indianapolis' gay bars.

418
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,360
Michael would initially be reported missing on June 7th, but it is known that he was spotted

419
00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,520
three days later in different parts of the city, riding in a stranger's car.

420
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:05,000
Again, the body of Michael would be found on June 16th, with the cause of death being

421
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,960
determined as strangulation.

422
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,880
There were no drugs or alcohol found in a blood test that was ran, but we all know how

423
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,840
investigators get when the victim is engaging in sex work.

424
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,840
It's like, oh, well maybe he just-

425
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:17,840
Ask for it.

426
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:18,840
It was a drug deal gone wrong or something.

427
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,080
He was asking for it.

428
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,000
He put himself in a dangerous situation.

429
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,000
Of course.

430
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,000
It's fucking gross.

431
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,000
And we'll see that.

432
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,800
Yeah, like everybody deserves to be taken advantage of if you happen to have, like, I

433
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,320
don't know, be down on your luck or in- people genuinely enjoy doing sex work.

434
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:33,320
Exactly.

435
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:34,320
I was like, what if it's a fucking joy?

436
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,320
I was like, who cares?

437
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,920
Yeah, you're just fucking living your life.

438
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,000
It doesn't mean that you're less than or- I mean, that's just stupid.

439
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000
It's gross.

440
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,000
It's dumb.

441
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,440
They're not fucking lab rats, and even that's wrong.

442
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,680
Poor rats.

443
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,320
The months went by with seemingly mundane activities with Herb and his wife, and despite

444
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,680
the comment that the two were rarely intimate, they would welcome their second child, Eric,

445
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,320
in 1981.

446
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:04,240
A 22-year-old Maurice Allen Taylor would become the next victim of the I-70 Strangler when

447
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,840
his body was found on July 21st, 1982.

448
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,560
Maurice's body was found in the Weasel Creek in Hamilton County, Indiana, and while his

449
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:18,320
cause of death was not concrete, law enforcement commented that it looked awfully close to

450
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,320
strangulation.

451
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,040
Maurice was known as living in the boiler room of an apartment complex at the time of

452
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,040
his murder, and he was also known to have been engaging in sex work at the local gay

453
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,480
bars in order to make some money.

454
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:37,680
A few months later, on October 3, 1982, 14-year-old Delvoid Lee Baker's semi-nude body would be

455
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,880
located near a river in Hamilton County, Indiana.

456
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,600
Witnesses stated that they last saw Delvoid the previous night in downtown Indianapolis,

457
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,840
and he was riding in a blue van that was being driven by a young white man with a bushy

458
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,080
mustache.

459
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,960
When speaking with Delvoid's parents, they stated that he had left the previous night

460
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,560
on his bike and was heading to center town, but called them around 10.30 to let them know

461
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,440
he was going to be late as he wanted to go see a movie.

462
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,040
It would later be determined that Delvoid had been hanging around the same bars in

463
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,840
the area for a few months prior to his death and was also engaging in prostitution.

464
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,360
So he was telling his parents, like, I'm going to go downtown and see a movie, but he was

465
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,040
actually engaging in sex work?

466
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,040
I think so.

467
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,200
Yes.

468
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,160
After visiting a nightclub in the same area of town, a 22-year-old Michael Andrew or Mick

469
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,800
Riley would become the next victim of the I-70 Strangler.

470
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,280
He would last be seen on May 28, 1983 with an unidentified man, the same man that he

471
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,600
would leave the club with later that night.

472
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,560
Mick's nude body would be found in a ditch in Hancock County on June 5th, the autopsy

473
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,760
determining that he had also been strangled, likely with a towel.

474
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,160
Still working at the same company and becoming successful within his position, Herb and Julie

475
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,680
would welcome a third child to the world named Emily in 1984.

476
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,840
While Herb was making progress at his job, his hoped for promotion would not be fulfilled,

477
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,760
and in 1985 he would be terminated from his job after almost a decade.

478
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,080
It may seem odd that a man who held the same job for that long would get fired out of nowhere,

479
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,880
but it was not for no reason.

480
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,960
I bet not.

481
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,680
Herb would be let go from the company following an act in which he urinated on a letter that

482
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:28,000
was addressed to the then governor of Indiana, Robert D. Orr.

483
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,760
What?

484
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,200
Following this act, rumors began to spread around the business that Herb was also responsible

485
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,760
for the year-end that had been found on his manager's desk in the recent months.

486
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Oh my god.

487
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,880
He's just going around pissing on stuff.

488
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:41,880
He's good.

489
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:42,880
He's good, yeah.

490
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:43,880
Shit on Debra's desk.

491
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:44,880
Why?

492
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:45,880
I get rejected.

493
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,880
Like a boss.

494
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,880
Like a boss.

495
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,880
That's literally him.

496
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:50,880
So funny.

497
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:51,880
Like a boss.

498
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,880
He's gonna fuck a fish.

499
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,800
He's just trying to act like a boss.

500
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,520
So yeah, he gets fired from his job after he's been at for about 10 years.

501
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,520
Julie, who was a full-time stay-at-home mom prior to this, returned to work after Herb

502
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,680
got fired in order to provide for the family.

503
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,680
Herb, now a full stay-at-home dad, was known to be very loving and caring of his three

504
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:13,920
children.

505
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,360
However, a few months without employment would get the better of Herb, and he would quickly

506
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:24,720
turn to alcohol, and oh, he was also secretly frequenting the gay bars without Julie's knowledge.

507
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280
While he's supposed to be watching the kids, would he just put him in a dog cage?

508
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,040
Well, I don't know if he's like leaving the kids to do so, but like around this time,

509
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,400
it comes out that he's like, comes out that he's so sick.

510
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:36,720
It comes out that he comes out.

511
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:37,720
I like that.

512
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,560
I was thinking about the janitor from Scrubs.

513
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,280
I don't know if you remember when Dr. Cox- is it Dr. Cox?

514
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:48,000
No, I think it's when Turk and Carla have the baby shower, and he's like the janitor,

515
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,920
like they open up the janitor's gift, and it's like a cage, like a dog cage.

516
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,440
And Carla's like, oh, is that for when we get the baby a puppy?

517
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,440
And he's like, what?

518
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,880
No, this is a baby cage.

519
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,240
You put some wood chips down so the baby can poop, and then you put the little water bottle

520
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,840
there so they can drink the water.

521
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,080
I'm kidding.

522
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,320
It's for when they buy the baby a puppy.

523
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,840
Yeah, or a hamster.

524
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,200
A giant hamster, yeah.

525
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,240
So yeah, I'm not sure exactly.

526
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,280
I don't think he was leaving the kids.

527
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,240
I think that he was like, maybe once Julie got home, he was like, oh, I'm going to go

528
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,640
out, and then he was going to these gay bars without her knowledge.

529
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,680
Yeah, he was going to go see a movie, quote unquote.

530
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:35,160
On May 7th, 1985, the shirtless body of 17-year-old Eric Allen Rodiger would be located near a

531
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,640
stream in Preble County, Ohio.

532
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,640
How old?

533
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,640
17.

534
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,640
Oh my God.

535
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,400
According to his parents, Eric had been planning to go to a couple of interviews for a summer

536
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,920
job on the day he disappeared, but he did not arrive to any of them.

537
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,320
Later research would determine that Eric also frequented the same bars that Herb and the

538
00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,800
I-70 Strangler did, and he was also engaging with drug traffickers and addicts.

539
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,160
However, his friends and family would deny these comments.

540
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,400
When questioned, witnesses claimed that they had seen Eric at a bus stop early the same

541
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,920
morning, but rather than wait for the bus, he accepted a ride from a stranger.

542
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,480
When Eric's body was found, there was a clear burn mark on his shoulder, and it appeared

543
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,840
that he had been strangled with a rope.

544
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,920
I think we also have to remember that this is in the 80s, right?

545
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:25,920
Yes.

546
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,880
Where the AIDS epidemic was sweeping across queer gay culture, not just the communities,

547
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:32,880
rather not culture.

548
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:33,880
Yes.

549
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,960
But the communities, and then them not knowing what it was, who had it, all this stuff, and

550
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:46,160
it was like society was repulsed by gay men all over again.

551
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,160
Of course.

552
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,960
And there was also this shame of, I don't want to say, first of all that I'm gay because

553
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,920
people are going to not want to be with me, they're going to oust me and stuff like that,

554
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,280
but also I don't want to tell people that I'm gay now because then they're going to

555
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,080
reprimand me for still being gay when this AIDS thing is happening or whatever.

556
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Yeah.

557
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,080
Well, yeah.

558
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,280
And I think that they, and I mean, it went down to even a religious thing where even certain

559
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:14,360
religions were saying, this is a pandemic within the gay community because they're evil.

560
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:18,880
And this is essentially an eradication of gay people.

561
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,880
This is what happens.

562
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,440
So it's like, yeah, it was so bad.

563
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,440
Yeah.

564
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,440
It was so bad.

565
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,960
And we'll see, unfortunately, a lot of these people that go missing or get murdered are

566
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,720
very clearly not out gay men.

567
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:34,720
Yeah.

568
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,560
And that's another reason probably why police officers aren't going to do shit because they're

569
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,160
like, well, this community is getting eradicated.

570
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,160
You know what I mean?

571
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,360
Left and right by this disease, we have no idea what's going on.

572
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,680
And how it's spread.

573
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,600
And why would I want to continue to interview people?

574
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,600
Like, yeah, they don't know if it's airborne.

575
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,600
Yeah.

576
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,600
They don't know any of that.

577
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,160
So they're like, well, I'm not going to go into the communities and ask people questions.

578
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,160
Yeah.

579
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,160
Why would I make myself sick?

580
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,160
Yeah.

581
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,160
Nuts.

582
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,280
On September 3rd, 1985, Herb would be arrested after an incident in which he was drinking

583
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,440
and driving.

584
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,360
However, this did not result in any deaths and he would be arrested for a hit and run,

585
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,840
being let go on bail shortly after his arrest.

586
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,200
Herb would essentially be given a slap on the wrist for this charge, but he would be

587
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:24,240
arrested yet again on March 27th, 1986, after he stole a car from a friend of his.

588
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,760
The charges for this would be a class A misdemeanor for auto theft and a class D misdemeanor for

589
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,680
conspiracy to commit theft.

590
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,160
However, a slap on the wrist would be given for these charges as well after just one day

591
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,160
at trial.

592
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,160
Yeah.

593
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,520
Which is that Herb, better get your story straight.

594
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,640
Are you the stay at home dad that loves his kids?

595
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,240
Are you this fuck off asshole after 10 PM?

596
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,240
Yeah.

597
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:53,480
On August 15th, 1986, the body of 29 year old Michael Allen, Mike Glenn, would be located

598
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,840
in a ditch near Eaton, Ohio.

599
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,400
His name is Michael Allen, Mike Glenn.

600
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,840
His nickname is Mike.

601
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,240
Michael Allen or Mike Glenn.

602
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,440
Michael Allen Glenn.

603
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,440
Yes, that's his name.

604
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,440
Oh.

605
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,040
His body would be found wearing only underwear and strangulation marks that resemble the

606
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,040
rope were found on his neck.

607
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,000
Mike lived in a different house than his parents, unlike other victims, and he was known as

608
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,680
working as a handyman.

609
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,840
The exact date of his disappearance is unknown, and it would take investigators three years

610
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,800
to identify his body.

611
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,360
A few months later on November 12th, 1986, Dr. Herbert Eugene Baummeister would pass away

612
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,520
when Herb was just 40 years old.

613
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,400
The son, like Herb, they were talking about.

614
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:47,040
James Boyd Robbins Jr., 21, went missing on October 15th, 1987 at around 10 PM.

615
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,560
James had just left his mother's home in Indianapolis and was walking towards the southern

616
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,880
part of the city.

617
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Two days later on October 17th, James's naked body was found in a ditch in Shelby County,

618
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,120
near I-70.

619
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,880
Police were able to speak with the two possible witnesses of this crime, but their stories

620
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,240
were conflicting, one stating that they had seen a red jeep while the other said they

621
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,040
had seen a Chevrolet.

622
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,880
James would be listed as another murder victim of the I-70 Strangler.

623
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,800
Meanwhile, having time being unemployed was causing Herb to drum up a business idea, and

624
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,920
after borrowing $4,000 from his mother, Herb and Julie would found and open a thrift store

625
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,320
by the name of Save a Lot.

626
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120
Save Without the E, so it's Savalot.

627
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,480
This store would open its doors in 1988 in Indianapolis, and in May of the same year,

628
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:45,280
the two would also purchase property and a house named the Fox Hollow Farm.

629
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:51,200
This home was built on the Fox Hollow Farm just a year prior, and included 18 plus acres,

630
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,360
four bedrooms, 10 bathrooms, and 11,572 square feet of room.

631
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,680
Is this where he's getting his kicks, like he's getting his attention through this kind

632
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:02,680
of stuff?

633
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,240
I don't know, I feel like he's like, I'm just gonna become rich, and then he like

634
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,360
founds this business idea, and then he's like, let's buy this fucking house.

635
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,240
I think his mom might have helped him with it.

636
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,440
Yeah.

637
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,680
When I think about the latest trends, I think Spencer's.

638
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Spencer's has been a mall must visit since its first store opened in 1963.

639
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,800
From then, Spencer's has always stocked the most unique and buzz-worthy products, including

640
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,560
but not limited to their wide range of Lotto lamps, their body jewelry cases, and of course

641
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,680
their infamous wallet wall.

642
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,400
And don't forget about their 18 and up section dedicated to sexual health.

643
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,760
Did I mention their humanitarian work?

644
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,680
Spencer's has been partnered with the ACLU for years in an effort to protect individual

645
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,920
rights as well as other non-profits such as cancer.

646
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,080
With over 670 locations in the US, Spencer's is the hottest place for trends even after

647
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,720
75 years.

648
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,080
Click the link in the show notes to receive an exclusive offer today.

649
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:07,680
Spencer's, life's a party and we're making it fun.

650
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Also included with the home, an indoor pool, a bar, a five-car detached garage, a second

651
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,880
floor outside deck, two horse stables with other features for owning horses and a pond.

652
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,040
It's a big old property.

653
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,040
Which is crazy.

654
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,680
I think in his mind, it might have been like a, if I make my lifestyle like I'm wealthy

655
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,920
and successful, then in turn it will happen.

656
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:31,920
Kind of a mindset.

657
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,080
I think it's like, again, it's when is the attention playing a part.

658
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,960
So one can assume he's this I-75.

659
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,200
I-70 Strangler?

660
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,520
I-70 Strangler.

661
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,840
One can assume he is this man.

662
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,720
However, I'm wondering, because as you're talking, I'm thinking BTK.

663
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,840
Like BTK very much had to have this normal outward appearance.

664
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:05,200
But even when he wasn't being pursued specifically, he then reached out to news stations and police

665
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,320
stations in order to gain that attention.

666
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:15,200
And so if he doesn't do that, I'm wondering if being in the public eye and being successful

667
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,080
in the public eye is a way that he's gaining that attention.

668
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,080
Yeah, I'm not sure.

669
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,120
Because I feel like BTK, for example, he was super narcissistic.

670
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,840
I don't think that Herb is narcissistic.

671
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,040
I think he just doesn't care.

672
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,720
So he's like, I don't care.

673
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,320
I'm going to make myself feel better by doing these things.

674
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,200
I don't care what anyone else thinks about me.

675
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,600
I don't want that fame.

676
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,920
I don't want that recognition.

677
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,120
And then of course, he's having the paranoid schizophrenia symptoms one can imagine because

678
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,600
it's been untreated.

679
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920
I don't know, maybe that's why they kind of went out to a big property so that they didn't

680
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,200
have to be around neighbors and stuff.

681
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,200
I don't know.

682
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,520
I just feel like I don't think he has narcissistic tendencies.

683
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,520
I just feel like if I pissed on someone's desk, that's pretty extreme.

684
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,880
And I would probably want someone to know that it was me.

685
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,560
See, yeah, but I don't know if you wanted people to know it was him.

686
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,120
I think he just wanted to get back at someone because they pissed him off.

687
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,800
You know, I don't know.

688
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:06,800
I feel like I don't know.

689
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:07,800
I don't know how he thought.

690
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,800
I don't know.

691
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,800
I don't know.

692
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,800
I don't know.

693
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:11,800
I don't know.

694
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:17,760
On August 12th, 1989, the body of 26-year-old Steven Lynn Elliott was located in Preble

695
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,800
County, Ohio, near I-70.

696
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:27,520
Steven was found in just underwear with marks that resembled strangulation marks on his neck.

697
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,400
After speaking with the family, Steven's father had stated that Steven had come out

698
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,800
as gay 10 years prior and left the family home to engage in prostitution, developing

699
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,800
an alcohol addiction in the process.

700
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,000
On this time, her was just living it up.

701
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,400
He had made $50,000 in his first year of owning Save-A-Lot, and he would decide at this time

702
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,720
to open up a second store.

703
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:57,200
On August 14th, 1990, 32-year-old Clay Russell Boatman would disappear after leaving his

704
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,160
home in Richmond, Indiana.

705
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,800
His plan for the night was to visit a local gay bar by the name of Hour Place.

706
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,800
Hour Place?

707
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,360
Oh, I was like, we have one here, but it's Hour Bar.

708
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,800
Unfortunately, Clay would become the ninth known victim of the I-70 Strangler when his

709
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,080
body was discovered with signs of strangulation.

710
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,640
Clay, a licensed practical nurse, would be found by a group of children near Eden, Ohio.

711
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,640
Oh, that's awful.

712
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,640
How traumatizing.

713
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,640
I know.

714
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,600
When his family was spoken with about Clay's death, they would deny that Clay was gay.

715
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,520
Oh, so even in death, they were like, no, that's not him.

716
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,520
No, he's not gay.

717
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,720
That's awful.

718
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:40,800
On September 6th, 1990, a semi-nude corpse was located at an abandoned railroad track

719
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,440
near Greenville, Ohio.

720
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,800
This body would be identified as one Thomas Ray Clevenger, Jr., 18 years old.

721
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,360
Thomas grew up in a low-income neighborhood in Indianapolis, and shortly before his death,

722
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,800
he was noted as engaging in prostitution near the local gay bars to earn some money.

723
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,200
When speaking with Thomas's mother and sister, they would both vehemently deny that Thomas

724
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,960
was involved in these things.

725
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:06,960
You said vehemently, so beautifully.

726
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:07,960
I did.

727
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,920
I would put it in there on purpose, and I almost said vehemently again.

728
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,880
At this time, Herb, Julie, and their three children were living at the Fox Hollow Farm,

729
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,760
and business was booming.

730
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,200
However, Herb had been noted as becoming slightly domineering over Julie, treating her more like

731
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,080
an employee than a spouse.

732
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,280
Due to these tensions, Herb and Julie were fighting frequently, and in order to keep the

733
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,520
peace, Julie would take a step back from the business.

734
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,680
At the home, things were not as great as they may have seemed at the store, and Julie would

735
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,280
frequently take the children to Herb's mother's home in order to just get away from Herb.

736
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,280
She's like, okay, let's go.

737
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,840
We'll spend some time with my mother-in-law.

738
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Oh, Herb's mother.

739
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Okay.

740
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,480
Mm-hmm.

741
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,080
It was noted around this time that while Herb did not seem to care much about the upkeep

742
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,520
of the home, he was very specific about how the poolhouse looked.

743
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,840
He would constantly keep the bar fully stocked, and it was noted that he even brought mannequins

744
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:09,000
home and would dress them up so that it looked like from the outside there was like a party

745
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,000
all the time.

746
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,000
Like a pool party?

747
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Yeah, like a pool party.

748
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Like, there's just always people here partying.

749
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,680
Yeah, it was always hanging out.

750
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,480
Although these things were strange, Julie was under the impression that Herb was spending

751
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,600
a lot of time at the shop while she was away with the kids, so she was like, whatever,

752
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,600
like, I don't know what he's doing.

753
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,760
He's probably just working.

754
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,080
I'm giggling to myself because I feel like his backyard looks like a Paxson.

755
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,080
Probably.

756
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:37,480
Yeah, like the mannequin's like, Paxson clothing on, hanging out in the back.

757
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,880
Like a home alone.

758
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:40,880
Yeah.

759
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,640
However, in the community surrounding the I-70 Strangler victims, people were still

760
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,280
going missing, but this time they were rarely being found.

761
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:56,240
On May 28th, 1993, 20-year-old John Lee or Johnny Bayer would go missing.

762
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:01,880
In the same year, on July 6th, 31-year-old Jeffrey Allen or Jeff Jones would also go

763
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,480
missing, both in Indianapolis.

764
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,680
Are they wearing Paxson right now?

765
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:12,480
20-year-old Richard Douglas Hamilton Jr. would go missing a few weeks later on July 31st,

766
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:18,240
1993, and just a week later, 27-year-old Alan Lee Livingston would go missing from the same

767
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,160
general area.

768
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,880
None of these missing men were recovered shortly after their disappearances, unlike the victims

769
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,680
of the I-70 Strangler, so authorities were hesitant to connect the crimes to the recent

770
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:30,680
killings.

771
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:36,000
However, they were aware of the disappearances, and around the early 90s, police would begin

772
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,160
investigating the string of missing people.

773
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,160
Oh, finally.

774
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,160
Great.

775
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,520
They noted that the men that were disappearing had very similar stories, backgrounds, age,

776
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,360
height, and weight of the victims of the I-70 Strangler.

777
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,000
The same day that Alan Livingston went missing happened to be the same day that another man,

778
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,840
34-year-old Manuel Rezendes, was last seen.

779
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,440
Manuel was a children's counselor from Lafayette, Indiana, who was visiting a local gay bar

780
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,680
in Indianapolis.

781
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,240
He would not be seen again from this point on.

782
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:15,480
The following year, on April 1st, 1994, 28-year-old Steven Sperlin Hale would go missing, and

783
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,840
28-year-old Alan Wayne Broussard would also go missing on June 6th, 1994.

784
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:27,440
Again, both men would be from the same general area as the others who had disappeared.

785
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,920
Following Alan's disappearance, his mother would contact one Virgil Van de Gryff, who

786
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:37,040
was highly respected and retired as the Marion County Sheriff.

787
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,200
Virgil had since opened a private investigation firm in Indianapolis that focused on missing

788
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,720
persons.

789
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,800
Once Virgil got wind of the disappearance of Alan, it was not long after that he would

790
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,800
catch the case of another missing person.

791
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:57,400
On July 22nd, 1994, 33-year-old Roger Alan Goodlett was last seen leaving his mother's

792
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,240
home with the intent of visiting a gay bar in Indianapolis.

793
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:07,280
Roger would not return home and would be reported missing, again with no body to determine what

794
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,280
happened.

795
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,280
I feel like this is going to be like House of Wax.

796
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,440
I'm not happy about it.

797
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,440
However, when questioning people close to the victim, it did come out that Roger was

798
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,560
seen interacting with one herb bowmeister at several of these bars about two weeks before

799
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,560
he disappeared.

800
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,560
And now they have a witness and how long is it going to take for them to speak to her?

801
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,280
It's got to be like the next never.

802
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,280
The next never.

803
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,280
The next never.

804
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,640
It's got to be the next never.

805
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,000
I mean like literally we see it all the time.

806
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,680
People are like, I literally saw that man walking with that underage girl or vice versa

807
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,520
or whatever.

808
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,880
And it's like, oh okay, thanks for the info.

809
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,080
And then police never fucking follow up.

810
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:57,080
Yeah, but it's also like herb, like it's kind of apparent now that he's been like a regular

811
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,760
at these bars.

812
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,760
So I don't think that the police were like, oh that's weird that this guy that's a regular

813
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,160
at the bar has happened to be talking to one of our victims when he's here all the time.

814
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,640
So I don't think that they really felt the need to like pursue it.

815
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,160
I understand what you're saying, but I doubt the police were just hanging out in the community.

816
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,760
I'm sure they weren't.

817
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,360
They're probably like on either side of the outskirts just waiting for people to stumble

818
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,880
drunk one way or the other.

819
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,480
Virgil's definitely the exception here though, because he would begin distributing missing

820
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,280
persons flyers at the gay bars around the city.

821
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,200
And many customers were also interviewed.

822
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,120
Virgil would discover through his questions that Roger was last seen willingly entering

823
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,120
a blue car with Ohio license plates.

824
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,240
Following the posters put in the bars around town, Virgil would receive a phone call from

825
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:47,680
one Tony Harris, claiming that a patron at one of the bars, who called himself Brian Smart,

826
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,520
had likely killed a friend of his named Roger.

827
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,920
What?

828
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,840
Tony stated that Brian seemed to have a keen interest in the disappearance of Roger, and

829
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,120
he had actually attempted to kill him in the past, Tony.

830
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,320
What?

831
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,520
When asked to elaborate more about this, Tony stated that he was at the club one night when

832
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:10,040
he noticed that another man was very interested in the missing posters of Roger.

833
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,440
Tony had a gut feeling that this man may at least know something about what happened to

834
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,440
Roger.

835
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,240
Or recognize him because he's intently looking at the poster.

836
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,240
So yeah, so he approached him and made conversation.

837
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:26,360
The man introduced himself as Brian Smart and said that he was a landscaper in Ohio.

838
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,600
Tony would try to bring up Roger in the conversation, and he said that when he did so, Brian became

839
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,480
upset.

840
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,720
This did not deter the men from having more conversation, however, and later that night,

841
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:42,400
Brian was known as inviting Tony over to a house to go for a late night swim.

842
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,800
He stated that the home was a client of his that he was landscaping for while they were

843
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,040
out of town, so they would be able to like hang out there alone.

844
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,160
Tony would agree to this, and the two would travel to the home that Brian was staying

845
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,920
at.

846
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,680
Tony noticed that upon entering the home, there were a lot of moving boxes, and there

847
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,000
was also a lot of furniture, like more than there would be, but he's like, I don't know,

848
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,000
the house is getting worked on, like that's not that odd, you know.

849
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,200
But the oddest part was that it's not like bleach?

850
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,200
Yeah.

851
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,200
Probably.

852
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,880
So like cleaner, and there was tarps on the floor.

853
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:12,880
Jesus.

854
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Brian would offer Tony a drink to which he refused, and shortly after, Brian would excuse

855
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,760
himself.

856
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,240
When he returned, Tony noticed that Brian was a lot more talkative than he was before.

857
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,960
Tony believed that Brian had done cocaine in his absence, but he didn't make a comment

858
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,040
about it.

859
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Brian would then bring up the topic of autoerotic asphyxiation, and ask Tony if he would be

860
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,600
willing to engage in it with him.

861
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:44,320
Tony would agree reluctantly, and he stated that he then choked Brian with a garden hose

862
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,280
while Brian pleasured himself.

863
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,280
Oh my God, that escalated.

864
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,280
I know.

865
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,600
He's like telling all this to the cops, just like, yes, this would happen.

866
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Yeah, and he was really into this garden hose.

867
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,720
Brian would then prompt Tony that it was time for them to switch places to which Tony would

868
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:04,720
again reluctantly agree, but he ultimately said yes.

869
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:06,600
Like, okay, sure.

870
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,440
However, it became very clear to Tony very quickly that Brian was not planning on releasing

871
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:18,480
the garden hose, and in response, Tony would pretend to pass out.

872
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,040
Brian would release the hose, and when Tony opened his eyes, he noted that Brian got scared

873
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,320
because he thought he was unconscious.

874
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,320
Oh shit, I thought you were fucking dead.

875
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,320
That's so scary.

876
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:34,640
Oh, following this, Tony would ask Brian to take him back home to which Brian would agree.

877
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,320
The two would casually talk on the way to Tony's home, and even spoke about meeting

878
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,000
up a second time the following week.

879
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,480
They're like, yeah, we can hang out again, blah, blah.

880
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,560
I'm sure Tony's just like, get me the fuck home, and I'm just gonna say whatever you

881
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:45,560
want.

882
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:46,560
Oh yeah, that was fun.

883
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,120
Virgil, hearing this, decided that it might be in the authorities best interest if this

884
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,040
meetup did happen, and police were able to listen in.

885
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,280
Oh, creepy though.

886
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,200
I know.

887
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,760
Tony would agree to doing this, however, when it came time for them to meet, Brian would

888
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,480
not show up.

889
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,160
Virgil would contact the police and turn the story over to them, because again, he's retired.

890
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,520
He's just in a missing persons unit.

891
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:11,520
Yeah.

892
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,760
A detective by the name of Mary Wilson would agree to take Tony to the area that he believed

893
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,000
the home was in, but unfortunately this came up with nothing.

894
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Oh, he couldn't find it again?

895
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,640
He didn't.

896
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,520
Yeah, he wasn't, it was from another, like they were right on the border of Ohio and

897
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:25,520
Indiana.

898
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,280
He wasn't very familiar with Ohio, and so like when he went over, he didn't even know

899
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,280
where to go.

900
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,200
Which I guess is smart on quote unquote Brian's part.

901
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,200
Brian.

902
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Unfortunately, police would ultimately hit a dead end when trying to locate this Brian

903
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,960
smart.

904
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,320
Meanwhile, Virgil had emphasized his suspicions to the Indianapolis Police Department as he

905
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,600
believed that even though there were no bodies, he was tracking a serial killer.

906
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,320
Again, Virgil is working in the missing persons unit, so he has not discovered any bodies.

907
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,800
This is not talking about the I-70 Stringler bodies.

908
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,560
Around this time, Herb's business was not keeping up success as he had hoped, and about

909
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,040
the same time his business went under, so did his marriage.

910
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,160
Ooh, who could see that coming?

911
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,040
I don't know, Julie.

912
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,200
On top of this, it was noted that around this time, Herb was beginning to treat his employees

913
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,600
really poorly, and there were many reports of him showing up to work smelling like alcohol.

914
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,440
Sounds like he's just on this.

915
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,800
Don't fucking care, yeah.

916
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,280
During this same year, Herb would be arrested yet again for drinking and driving in Rochester

917
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:35,640
and Indiana, but would subsequently be sentenced to just three days in jail and one year probation.

918
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,720
Oh, no, I'm miserable.

919
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:39,280
Three days.

920
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:45,520
During this same year, in 1994, Herb's 13-year-old son, Eric, was messing around in a wooded

921
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,520
area behind their home when he came across a partially buried human skeleton.

922
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,520
Oh my god.

923
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,720
No, oh my god.

924
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:01,280
Eric would immediately run to his mother and tell her what he found, who then told Herb,

925
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:02,920
Julie told Herb, like, what the hell?

926
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,080
Oh my god, he's like, you left your toys in the backyard again.

927
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,080
Yeah.

928
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,080
Oh my god.

929
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,200
Herb would brush this discovery off, stating that his father had used cadavers in the past

930
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:19,360
to study for his medical practice, and once his father died, Herb was cleaning out his

931
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:24,440
things when he came across an old cadaver which he then just buried in their yard.

932
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,680
Instead of, like, giving it to, I don't know, a fucking museum?

933
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,480
Or why the fuck would his dad have a cadaver at his house?

934
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:31,480
I don't know.

935
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,480
You know, like, just where you know my dad.

936
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,520
You know your grandfather was a doctor, right?

937
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:35,520
Yeah.

938
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,560
Your grandfather was a doctor, so that's why we have dead people in the backyard.

939
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,120
Even though the story was ridiculous, Julie and Eric reluctantly believed Herb.

940
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,560
Oh my god.

941
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,720
Julie.

942
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,200
While the business reached a full downfall and was in danger of closing, Herb was spending

943
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,120
more and more time in his pool house alone, where he would drink to excess and cry often.

944
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,440
Sorry, that's not funny.

945
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,360
The following year, 45-year-old Michael Frederick or Mike Kearron would be reported missing on

946
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,680
March 31st, 1995.

947
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,280
Mike had also been seen at one of the bars in the same area shortly before he went missing,

948
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,520
but again, nobody would be found.

949
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:22,680
On August 8th, 1995, 34-year-old Jerry Williams Comer was last seen, and his vehicle would

950
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,480
be located at Castleton Square Mall.

951
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,640
Jerry would fit the same general description of the men who had been going missing for

952
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:34,360
years prior, but his body would also not be found.

953
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,200
The same month, on August 29th, Brian Smart would return to the same bar that he originally

954
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,560
met Tony at, and Tony just so happened to be there.

955
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,840
I'm sorry, can I just go ahead and commend Tony for saving his own life?

956
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:47,840
Yes.

957
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,440
Like, during that, he felt so uncomfortable that he was just like, this isn't gonna happen.

958
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,160
Smart guy, because not only did he pretend to pass out, but he refused the drink that

959
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,800
he was offered when he first got there.

960
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,240
Could have been drugged.

961
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:04,080
Tony was actually able to remain calm, and he would sneakily grab the license plate of

962
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,680
the car that Brian was driving as he was leaving the bar.

963
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Tony would give the license plate number to Mary Wilson, the detective, who would use

964
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,880
it to begin finding out the truth of the driver.

965
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,200
Mary would run the plate, and as she would discover more about the owner, Herb Baumeister,

966
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:29,800
it became clear that Tony narrowly escaped a dangerous serial killer.

967
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:35,880
In November of the same year, 1995, a 49-year-old herb would be confronted at his own store

968
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,120
that was barely hanging on by a thread.

969
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,000
Mary would speak with Herb and inform him that he was a suspect in an investigation into

970
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:48,040
several missing men, and she asked if investigators could search his home in order to rule him

971
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,040
out.

972
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,160
They didn't have a warrant.

973
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,040
Herb would refuse as the police did not have authority and stated that any other correspondence

974
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,320
should be through his lawyer.

975
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,120
Mary would oblige, and would instead contact Julie in hopes that she would want to help

976
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,120
her.

977
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,200
She'd say, well, I'll just talk to your wife.

978
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,640
Julie was extremely shocked by the things that police told her, but she would also ultimately

979
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,200
refuse to search.

980
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,800
The next step was to try to get Hamilton County officials to issue a search warrant, but since

981
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,320
the evidence was mostly circumstantial, this didn't work either.

982
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,160
Over the next six months, Herb was noted as suffering an extreme mental breakdown, and

983
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,240
the issues with Julie would just explode.

984
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:37,240
I mean, I'd say so.

985
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:40,720
Right now, he's being investigated for the missing people only.

986
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:44,800
The missing people only, but still, it's like, come on.

987
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,800
It's like fuck.

988
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:46,800
Yeah.

989
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,200
I'm saying he knows that he's in the pooper right now.

990
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,480
Save a Lot would completely go out of business in June of 1996, and Julie would file bankruptcy

991
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,640
for the company.

992
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,080
It seemed as though Julie was really torn about how she felt about the situation, but

993
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,080
she kept going back to the skeleton that was found in the yard and thinking that it maybe

994
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,480
wasn't as easy as an explanation that Herb had given her.

995
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,040
She's like, God, I don't know.

996
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,040
That's so weird.

997
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,680
It's just so suspicious.

998
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,200
He's burying people in the backyard.

999
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,480
I don't care if it is for his father's medical research.

1000
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:21,480
That's still weird.

1001
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,320
It's just strange.

1002
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,000
And now he's being investigated for missing persons cases?

1003
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Gosh.

1004
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,640
I just, you know, what are you going to do?

1005
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,400
Julie would make the decision to file for divorce and would almost immediately tell

1006
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,800
Mary about the skeleton that her and her son had discovered two years prior.

1007
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,920
Julie would also give permission for authorities to search the property while Herb and Eric

1008
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,520
were actually out of town, so they had left.

1009
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,000
I don't know why, but they did.

1010
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,520
Finally Julie would phone her lawyer.

1011
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,920
Julie would later recount her and Herb's entire marriage stating that the two only

1012
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:04,440
engage in intimate behavior six times over their 25-year marriage and she never once

1013
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,760
saw Herb naked.

1014
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,520
How did they have kids?

1015
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:09,520
They only had sex six times.

1016
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:10,520
They had three kids.

1017
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:11,520
They could have tried twice each.

1018
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:12,520
Three years of kids.

1019
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:13,520
Yeah, exactly.

1020
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:14,520
That's the only time.

1021
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,520
I just think that that's important to note because like that, like he's over here saying,

1022
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,040
I mean, he's very obviously troubled with his sexuality.

1023
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:27,160
And that is another thing that shows it, you know.

1024
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:33,000
On June 24th, 1996, Mary Wilson and three officers approached the patio of the Bowmeister

1025
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,960
home.

1026
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,480
Upon arriving, they immediately noticed that the small rocks around the area that the children

1027
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,440
would play were actually bone fragments.

1028
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,240
Like those are pebbles.

1029
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:48,240
My God.

1030
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,240
They're toes.

1031
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,240
Oh my God.

1032
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,000
This would confirm this suspicion.

1033
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,480
An entire excavation would be put into place immediately.

1034
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,880
Bone fragments were found everywhere, even some on the neighbor's property.

1035
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:02,880
What?

1036
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,200
I mean, it gets kicked up and pushed around as time goes on.

1037
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:13,120
Early searches of the property came up with around 5,500 fragments of bone and teeth and

1038
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,120
were estimated to be from around 11 different men.

1039
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,560
I'm sorry, but like how do you not know?

1040
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,640
I mean, I don't...

1041
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,400
She's gone a lot though with the kids.

1042
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,920
She's taken the kids away a lot.

1043
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,080
Maybe she thinks they're rocks.

1044
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,080
I don't know.

1045
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,080
I don't...

1046
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,080
Okay.

1047
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,920
We have very similar looking pebbles in our backyard.

1048
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:36,920
Do we?

1049
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:37,920
Those rocks by the pool?

1050
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:38,920
I guess so.

1051
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:39,920
Literally by the pool.

1052
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:40,920
Those are actually rocks.

1053
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:41,920
Those are actually rocks.

1054
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,440
I mean, they're actually rocks.

1055
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:44,680
Don't look into it.

1056
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:50,480
But like they kind of resemble the same color as maybe bone mixed with dirt or something.

1057
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:51,480
Yeah.

1058
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,480
I guess.

1059
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,360
So at this time forensic analysts were able to positively determine that some of these

1060
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,840
were the remains of 34 year old Roger Goodlett, 26 year old Stephen Hale, and 20 year old Richard

1061
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:02,840
Hamilton.

1062
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,040
These are just...

1063
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,400
These are three of the missing men I talked about earlier.

1064
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:14,000
Upon this discovery, Julie became extremely upset, obviously, and additionally very fearful

1065
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,320
for her son, Eric, who was with Herb.

1066
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,680
The police were thinking the same thing, especially since Herb and Julie were in the

1067
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,080
beginning parts of their divorce.

1068
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,840
Yeah, it's like the most dangerous time.

1069
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:29,320
Police and Julie would agree that for Eric's safety, Herb should be served with custody

1070
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,720
papers and demanded to return the children before police tipped him off that he was in

1071
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:36,800
trouble or that they found anything.

1072
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,960
Herb would be served with the papers and he would turn Eric over to Julie without incident.

1073
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,120
Good.

1074
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,240
It is thought that Herb figured that these papers were just like standard procedure from

1075
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:48,080
the divorce, he's like whatever.

1076
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,960
Shortly after this, Herb would discover that there was a warrant issued for his arrest due

1077
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,600
to the things that were located on the property.

1078
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,720
In response to this, Herb would flee to Ontario to evade capture.

1079
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:04,760
That's in Canada for our non-this side of the pond listeners.

1080
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,360
Herb would arrive at Pineary Provincial Park on Lake Huron.

1081
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,960
It would ultimately take it upon himself to shoot himself in the head of ending his life.

1082
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:13,960
No!

1083
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,560
Are you serious?

1084
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:16,560
Yes.

1085
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:17,560
I'm shook.

1086
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,160
I have full body heaves.

1087
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,160
What?

1088
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,440
Along with Herb's body, a three page suicide note was written explaining the things that

1089
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,640
Herb felt badly about.

1090
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,480
In the note, Herb wrote about how he felt poorly about his ending marriage and failing business,

1091
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:36,360
among other things such as getting the area that he died messy.

1092
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,440
He also mentioned that he was originally going to kill himself somewhere else, but there

1093
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,160
were a lot of kids around and he just didn't really feel cool doing that.

1094
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,080
Oh yeah, think of the kids.

1095
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,360
Herb also explained that his last meal was a peanut butter sandwich.

1096
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:48,360
Why?

1097
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:49,360
Why would he care?

1098
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:50,360
It's a three page thing.

1099
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,640
You gotta include some detail and you can't get three pages out of it.

1100
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,040
He can't wrap up his life so he's gonna talk about what he had for lunch.

1101
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:03,360
The most bizarre thing however was the fact that not once in the note did Herb take responsibility

1102
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,920
for or even acknowledge that the stuff that was found on his property was found.

1103
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,600
And it definitely sounds like Callis of me to be like, somebody wrote a suicide note and

1104
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:12,960
they talked about what they had for lunch.

1105
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,960
But that's why I'm saying is that he cares to talk about that, but he doesn't choose

1106
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,480
to talk about the victims.

1107
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,840
Not only does he not take responsibility, he doesn't even acknowledge that that evidence

1108
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:24,840
was found.

1109
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,160
He never once says like, and I know you found stuff on my property and I'm not gonna acknowledge

1110
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,040
it at all.

1111
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,360
So he essentially blamed his ending marriage for him taking his own life.

1112
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,520
Yes, exactly.

1113
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:37,800
He was like, this is why I'm killing myself.

1114
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,800
It has nothing to do with those bodies that you fucking found.

1115
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:41,800
I have no idea what that's about.

1116
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,000
I didn't even mention them.

1117
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,280
Has nothing to do with the bone fragments that the children have been playing in for

1118
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,280
the last 12 years.

1119
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,280
Yes.

1120
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:49,280
Cool.

1121
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,240
Herb Boughmeister would die on July 3rd, 1996 at the age of 49.

1122
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:58,280
Since Herb died before he could be arrested or charged, police were left to determine

1123
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,040
that the bodies found in his home were murders that he was responsible for.

1124
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:07,480
So the initial search, like I said, had come up with like, they said enough bone remains

1125
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,880
and fragments for, they think up to 11 men, but they had only positively ID'd 4, like

1126
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,760
at this point or 3.

1127
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,680
Julie was known to have done an interview in 1996 in which she states about Herb's crimes,

1128
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:24,600
quote, our biggest question now is how he could have loved us and done this.

1129
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,760
Happiness as we knew it is never going to return, end quote.

1130
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:34,400
The answer is Julie is that he didn't, unfortunately, and I hate to sound like that, but honestly,

1131
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,000
you were probably a pawn.

1132
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:41,040
You were probably a cover for him, and that's an awful feeling, and I can't even imagine

1133
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,040
what that must feel like.

1134
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,720
Like you have no idea who this person you married is.

1135
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,680
I can't imagine that at all.

1136
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,840
Throughout the excavations, over 10,000 pieces of bone and teeth were ultimately found at

1137
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,080
Fox Hollow Farm.

1138
00:56:55,080 --> 00:57:02,160
So initially, like I said, those few victims had been discovered, but essentially investigators

1139
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:08,160
collected everything they could, and then there was kind of no more leads to identifying

1140
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,240
other people for the time being.

1141
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:13,160
Yeah, just through testing and stuff.

1142
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:17,440
Do you think that he purposely bought this giant property so that he could start bringing

1143
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,560
victims onto the property because he knew eventually if he kept dumping bodies, he

1144
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,040
would get caught?

1145
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,400
Yes, but I never said he was the I-70 Strangler.

1146
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,320
Oh yeah, that's right.

1147
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:30,320
My bad.

1148
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,640
I think he brought that big property so that he had places to put his victims.

1149
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:34,640
Correct.

1150
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:35,640
I see.

1151
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:36,640
Okay.

1152
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:37,640
Just saying.

1153
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:38,640
Just saying.

1154
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,640
Hold that out there for the record.

1155
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,560
It seems entirely the episode is fine.

1156
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:47,680
Hamilton County Coroner-elect Jeff Jellison announced on November 28, 2022 that he hoped

1157
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:53,360
the way technology has advanced will be helpful to discovering the IDs of the remaining remains.

1158
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:54,760
So this is in 2022?

1159
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:55,760
2022.

1160
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:01,240
So it's been a very long time since it was last discovered in 96 where the remains.

1161
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:02,760
On the property, okay.

1162
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:03,760
Yes.

1163
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,280
Unfortunately, a few years after the case, most of the evidence had been put away and

1164
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,960
overlooked by other and newer crimes.

1165
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:15,360
Jeff stated about this quote, for the past 26 years, these people have been placed on

1166
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,040
a shelf at the University of Indianapolis and that is not acceptable.

1167
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:24,360
We need to make every effort possible to identify these people and return them to their loved

1168
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:25,360
ones.

1169
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,360
End quote.

1170
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:31,480
Well, do you think it's also because again, even at the time in 96, they were gay men?

1171
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,920
No, I really think that it was just because there was so fucking much.

1172
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:37,880
There was over 10,000 fragments.

1173
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:38,880
Yeah.

1174
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,680
That had probably been not to be morbid, but stepped on, kicked around, rained on, flooded,

1175
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,280
you know, like I just don't think it was possible with the technology they had to identify more

1176
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,120
than those couple victims in the beginning.

1177
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,480
Jeff would continue with the statement about the amount of evidence quote, we have a huge

1178
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,880
job in front of us.

1179
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:01,520
However, I have confidence this team of police officers and forensic specialists will exhaust

1180
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:06,280
all efforts to identify the individuals that were brutally murdered and discarded on her

1181
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:07,960
bowmeister's property.

1182
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:08,960
End quote.

1183
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:09,960
Carelessly as well.

1184
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:10,960
Yeah.

1185
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:16,200
They even like buried them and then they were so far deep that the kids wouldn't play in

1186
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,880
the bodies, you know, like that's that's care.

1187
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:20,880
Let's careless.

1188
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:21,880
Whatever.

1189
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:22,880
He really didn't care.

1190
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:28,880
I heard somewhere that he also like burned the bodies and that's why they like were

1191
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,920
made into bone fragments so quickly.

1192
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,400
I didn't really read anything about that except for one article.

1193
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,200
So I don't know if that's true or not.

1194
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:36,200
Yeah.

1195
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,840
But I just wanted to put that out there because it was like, obviously, if you dump a corpse,

1196
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,200
it's going to be more noticeable than like bones.

1197
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:42,480
Yeah, that's true.

1198
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,600
But again, you know, with the wildlife and stuff like that, they could carry stuff back

1199
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,960
onto the property closer to the house or whatever.

1200
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:54,880
On December 4th, 2022, a new search of the home was done and it or not the home, but

1201
00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:00,140
the area and investigators came across one bone and about 20 other locations that may

1202
01:00:00,140 --> 01:00:03,040
have more remains under their ground.

1203
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:08,320
Jeff stated about this discovery quote, it's time now to reexamine, take a look and see

1204
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,920
where we're at with this.

1205
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,360
Let's look at this again.

1206
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,560
Let's get as many of these people identified as we possibly can and begin to get some closure

1207
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,320
for some families of missing people.

1208
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:24,160
On October 17th, 2023, the Hamilton County Coroner's Office announced that they had

1209
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:31,920
positively ID their remains of Alan Livingston, who was just 27 when he went missing in 1993.

1210
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,760
Jeff Jellison stated about this quote, I would like to thank the entire team of law

1211
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:40,080
enforcement and forensic specialists that have come together to support this effort.

1212
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:45,400
A special thanks goes to the hardworking people at the Indiana State Police Laboratory, whose

1213
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:50,960
expertise in DNA led to the identification of Alan Livingston.

1214
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,200
In January of 2024, another set of remains that were taken from the Balmeister property

1215
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:02,080
had been determined to be those of 34 year old Manuel Rezendas who went missing in 1993.

1216
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,080
That was in this January?

1217
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:05,080
Yes.

1218
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:06,480
That was in January of 2024.

1219
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:11,760
A few weeks ago, investigators announced that they had positively identified remains belonging

1220
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:18,640
to Jeffrey A. Jones who went missing at the age of 31 in 1993.

1221
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,760
These discoveries are credited to Jeff Jellison who encouraged potential family members to

1222
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:28,760
come forward and utilize genealogy technology that has been advancing and it has paid off.

1223
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:34,000
I can't imagine having a missing relative since 96 or beyond that.

1224
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,000
93.

1225
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,000
93.

1226
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,000
93.

1227
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,000
And what is that?

1228
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,400
20, 30 years later?

1229
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:40,400
Yeah.

1230
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,400
30 something years later?

1231
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:42,400
Yep.

1232
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:43,400
That's wild.

1233
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,800
While other victims mentioned earlier in this story have been positively ID'd as victims,

1234
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,440
obviously I said their names earlier, according to the amount of remains located, there are

1235
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:57,520
multiple other men who have been missing and have not yet been identified.

1236
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,440
Anybody who thinks they may be related to any missing persons in this case may contact

1237
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:09,320
the coroner's office at 317-770-4415-4415.

1238
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:15,880
As far as the I-70 Strangler goes, while there are many indications that it was her

1239
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,600
bowmeister, this has never been determined to be true.

1240
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:20,600
Really?

1241
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:27,160
Never have they, they have sufficient evidence that it's widely thought, but it's not, no

1242
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:28,160
cooperative evidence.

1243
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,160
No cooperative evidence.

1244
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:30,160
Affirmed that it was true.

1245
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:31,160
Wow.

1246
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,120
So there are a couple of people that they also think it might be, one being a man by

1247
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,440
the name of Duncan Patterson.

1248
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:43,040
There's another guy named August or Gus Cadio and Larry Eiler.

1249
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,520
If I talked about all of them, it would take forever, but essentially like their MO's didn't

1250
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:53,560
necessarily line up or they were out of town at a couple of times the bodies were found

1251
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,760
or whatever, so like it just doesn't add up.

1252
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:03,280
And Julie was able to give investigators corroborating evidence showing when her was

1253
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,280
out of the house and out of town that all lines up with the I-70 Strangler.

1254
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:08,280
Interesting.

1255
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:11,960
But again, it's never been fully confirmed.

1256
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:17,840
And the I-70 Strangling's essentially ceased when they moved to the house.

1257
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:18,840
Correct.

1258
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,640
Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, the timeline, the method of operation and other factors,

1259
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,800
such as the fact that they stopped being dumped on the side of the road pretty much as soon

1260
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,480
as he bought this property, shows that it may have been him.

1261
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,760
And he actually was a prime suspect in the case at the time of his death.

1262
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:37,760
Prior.

1263
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:38,760
Yeah, prior to his death.

1264
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:39,760
Interesting.

1265
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:44,320
Yes, and then I was just also gonna say some people actually believe that Herb has been

1266
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:49,800
used as a scapegoat of sorts so that police can just close the I-70 Strangler book and

1267
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,880
say that it's been solved or taken care of.

1268
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,800
And they're like, oh, which is put it on him and that the true perpetrator got away with

1269
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:56,800
it.

1270
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:57,800
Yeah.

1271
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:58,800
That's just some people, they think that.

1272
01:03:58,800 --> 01:03:59,800
Yeah, that's true.

1273
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,040
I mean, the I-70 Strangler could have been a police officer themselves.

1274
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,040
We've seen that.

1275
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,040
I don't know.

1276
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,440
And then he's like, oh, well, this person is being blamed for the crime, so I'm just gonna

1277
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:08,760
stop killing.

1278
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,320
I just thought that that was super interesting.

1279
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:15,360
I had to play it up like that because I was like, I can't say Herb killed these people

1280
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,080
in the beginning because I don't know because it's not confirmed.

1281
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,080
Interesting.

1282
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,000
I'm not referring to them as the I-70 Strangler.

1283
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,720
I didn't even say he, I said they.

1284
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,040
Like the I-70 Strangler, they did this.

1285
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,040
Non-singer specific.

1286
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:28,400
Yeah, exactly because I'm gonna fucking know.

1287
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:29,400
It could have been Julie.

1288
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:30,400
Yeah.

1289
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:31,400
No, don't blame them on Julie.

1290
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,440
It was Julie this whole time, Julie.

1291
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,360
So yes, that is Herb Boundmeister.

1292
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:36,960
Thank you, James, for the recommendation.

1293
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,400
That was a very interesting case.

1294
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:44,560
And we do know, like I said earlier, he was diagnosed very early on with paranoid schizophrenia,

1295
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,240
obviously now known as part of the schizophrenic spectrum.

1296
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:52,360
And essentially, if you haven't brushed up on your thing or listened to the episode we

1297
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:57,440
did on it, essentially it precepts your reality, your perception of, excuse me, it distorts

1298
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,840
your perception of reality and your environment.

1299
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,480
You can have auditory, visual hallucinations.

1300
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:09,680
That can cause you to get scared or something, again, not excusing, just explaining.

1301
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:14,360
And then of course, antisocial personality disorder, very withdrawn from other people's

1302
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,480
emotions, essentially like no lack of sympathy or empathy.

1303
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:23,160
So killing, unfortunately, sometimes happens in the absence of treatment with people with

1304
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,160
that disorder.

1305
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,680
I feel like maybe I could definitely see the antisocial personality disorder pop.

1306
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:34,600
But the schizophrenia, I don't know, spectrum disorder, I think that, yeah, I think you're

1307
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:40,720
right with the, maybe he got paranoid about getting caught and it was so severe that he

1308
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:47,160
decided to buy a property if he was the I-70 stranger.

1309
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:53,600
But even if he wasn't, the fact that he chose to bury them on his own property.

1310
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,000
That's dissociative for sure.

1311
01:05:55,000 --> 01:06:01,720
I feel like dissociative and again, the paranoia or potential paranoia or hallucination about

1312
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,320
being caught if he were to go dump the body somewhere else.

1313
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,040
Yeah, if he wasn't, yeah, you're right, if he wasn't the strangler.

1314
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:11,560
He would rather put his children in the backyard playing with the I-70.

1315
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:12,560
Which is gross.

1316
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,440
Well, I'm just glad that his children are okay and that Julie is okay.

1317
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,680
But I actually don't know where Julie is, I'm not sure she's even alive.

1318
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,280
I can look it up really quick.

1319
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:21,280
Do it.

1320
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:22,280
Yeah, that's very interesting.

1321
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,520
I'm on my computer so you can hear me typing.

1322
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,760
I really want to put all my stickers on the back of my laptop.

1323
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,680
You have yours from the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival 23.

1324
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:31,680
I think they're so cute.

1325
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:32,680
They are.

1326
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,280
I love the way my computer looks.

1327
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:41,840
So I actually can't find much on Julie, which tells me that she might still be alive because

1328
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:46,520
I feel like there would have been an obit or something if she had passed away.

1329
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:50,520
But I also just read that the current homeowners are people that are actually living at Fox

1330
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:55,280
Hollow Farm and they said that they think that Herb's presence is there.

1331
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:56,280
It's creepy.

1332
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:57,280
Even though he didn't die there.

1333
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,360
He flew, I guess, afterwards.

1334
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,840
Julie by, what did you say?

1335
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:02,840
Bymeister.

1336
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:03,840
Bymeister.

1337
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,520
Widow not convicted, that's the only thing I found.

1338
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:07,520
Well, good.

1339
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:08,520
Well, I hope Julie's doing okay.

1340
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,320
I hope the kids are doing all right or like us are adults now.

1341
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:17,320
But yeah, thanks again, James for the recommendation and we hope that we did it justice.

1342
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:18,520
And is there anything else that you have?

1343
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,320
Oh, she was on Oprah.

1344
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:21,320
Interesting.

1345
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:22,320
Well, that's a Google that.

1346
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:23,800
That's probably on YouTube somewhere.

1347
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:24,800
Somewhere.

1348
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:25,800
We're on O.

1349
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:26,800
O Network.

1350
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:27,800
Is it still around?

1351
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,320
Actually, I think they canceled O Network.

1352
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:30,320
Yeah, I think they did.

1353
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:31,320
Anyways, let's get out of here.

1354
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:32,320
Okay.

1355
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:33,320
Love you.

1356
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:34,320
Love you.

1357
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:35,320
Bye.

1358
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:43,840
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01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:49,240
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