Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm Kenna.
And I'm Ko-Wow!
And this is part two of Fred and Rose West, the long-awaited part two.
As I know, everyone is very excited for Ko-Wow Included.
It's a heckin' doozy.
It has been so far.
Like, it's been pretty crazy.
We just got into part one and you haven't even heard part two.
Like, you're hearing this with the listeners.
And not hearing this technically, but right before them.
And, you know, it's just one of those cases that just has so much information.
So we're going to have a part two today.
And then we're going to tie it all together with a part three next week.
So we really appreciate you guys' patience.
But before we get into part two, let's just go ahead and quickly recap part one.
What do you say?
Yes.
Okay.
So we definitely talked about Fred.
Fred and Froze's childhoods.
Fred and Rose's childhoods.
Fred's family was, you know, typical domineering family.
The parents, they had a big farm family, you know,
alleged sexual assault here and there and just really just neglectful
and abusive household, you know, emotionally abusive.
Similarly to Rose, hers was very unfortunately heavily sexual abusive household.
She became very sexualized at a young age and she took that into her teen years
when she met Fred.
And I think there, what's their age gap?
Like 13 years?
Well, yeah, cause he's in his 30s, right?
And she's...
So he was 28 when they met and she was just 15.
Yeah.
And then moving forward, they had adopted, well,
Rose had taken in Fred's child that he had with another woman
as well as this other woman's child that they had together as well
and became sort of like a mother figure in her mind to them.
Not really.
Unfortunately, this like love abuse continued
and she would just very quickly begin to abuse those girls as well.
And at the end of part one, there have been a few deaths.
One of the daughters has unfortunately passed as well as the ex-wife
and an old nanny of Fred's.
I don't want to give too much away.
If you haven't heard part one, go ahead and listen to it.
But in part one, at the very end, we were talking about a woman
by the name of Carolyn Owens.
She had been employed by Fred and Rose as a nanny to a couple of their kids.
And then she decided that she was going to go back home after numerous sexual advances
by the two of them.
Unfortunately, Rose and Fred were not finished with her
and they decided to create this plan to abduct her.
So they figured out where she was hitchhiking.
They lured her back into their vehicle and promised her
that they were not threatening.
They were going to just bring her back to work.
And unfortunately, that was not the case.
So the last thing that Carolyn remembered at this last part of one,
she was knocked unconscious somehow and she woke up in a bedroom at their home
with one of the kids knocking on the door.
And Fred coming in saying that if she tried to escape,
he was going to let his friends sexually assault her.
And the only reason that she was brought back to the home was for Rose's pleasure.
And Fred then added that he had killed hundreds of girls before her.
Boom, boom, boom.
Very scary.
So that's where we're picking up right now.
Again, if you haven't listed a part one, go ahead and listen to it.
Because there is a lot more information than what I just said.
But we're going to pick it up right now with part two.
Content Warning.
This episode contains depictions of the brutal deaths of children,
incest, bestiality, graphic sexual and physical abuse of children,
graphic descriptions of illegal medical procedures,
serious symptoms of mental illness,
grooming of young children,
suicide, dismemberment of adults and children after death,
and necrophilia.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health is very important and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Ready?
Yes.
Okay.
So after this horrifying chain of events,
Fred and Rose calmly asked if Caroline would return to work as their nanny.
It's like, oh yeah, okay, just come back and do us some favors,
even though we've been terrible to you.
Makes no sense.
No, honestly, it doesn't make any sense.
But again, hoping it would gain their trust because she's now learning this couple,
Caroline would agree and immediately vacuumed the whole house to show like how serious she was.
She's like, okay, yeah, totally fine.
Like she's like, please don't kill me.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Later that day, Caroline and Rose would leave the home and visit Alondra Matt,
and Caroline would see her chance to escape.
She would actually escape and make it home safely.
Hell yeah.
So honestly, great for her.
I am not saying that this shouldn't have happened,
but like fucking Rose, you dumbass.
Like, oh yeah, we're just threatened you with all this stuff,
and we're just going to take you out for like an hour.
It's a very complete place.
Yeah, but honestly, good thing she did because Caroline did escape and made it home,
but she was actually initially too ashamed to tell her mother what had happened to her.
She was like, of course ashamed because she got sexually assaulted, but also that she let these people do this twice.
Yeah, to the advantage of her twice.
And again, she didn't let them, like they did it, but in her mind, that's probably how she felt.
However, Caroline's mother would quickly notice the welts and bruises on her daughter's body and asked her what was going on.
Caroline would break down and tell her mother the whole ordeal,
to which her mother would immediately report the entire thing to police.
And the wasps were actually subsequently charged with assault, indecent assault, actual body harm, and rape.
Hurray, consequences.
Body harm, not body harm.
Right, so they finally get arrested, the both of them.
Yeah.
So this case would be tried at Glauchester Magistrates Court on January 12th, 1973,
but by this date, Caroline had decided that she could not face them and testify in court.
Which is like, again, we've seen this before, right?
So what are these people doing or threatening or whatever between the time that they get arrested
and the time that a trial happens for these people to not want to testify after all?
I think that it should be good practice to maybe provide someone who can speak on behalf of the victim in these cases,
instead of making the victim be the witness, like, and that happens way too often.
It totally does.
Well, didn't we talk about a while back, like when we first started the podcast, there is some sort of thing in place for advocates for children in these circumstances,
but I don't know if there's one for adults.
I don't think there is.
Although there is something in, I want to say, and I think it might come up later,
there is something in the UK court system where you can have an adult appointed assistant in court or something,
and they will help you, like, they'll be there with you throughout questioning and throughout investigations and interrogations,
but I don't think that they can testify on your behalf or in place of you.
Yeah, I think that the only times I've ever seen that is when someone's, like, elderly or infirm, that they're unable to go to court,
have some type of a disability, but not for able-bodied people that are going through psychiatric trauma, you know,
and that's unfortunate that, you know, you feel like, especially when it comes to victims of crimes and the perpetrator pleads not guilty
because then they have to go through the court and the whole trial process,
and that's just another form of control for these perpetrators, which is so gross.
So you feel like you're being victimized all over again because you're being controlled or made to do something you don't want to do.
It's gross.
That's a good point, and also, like, not to mention the, I mean, it's called a trauma for a reason,
like, that can be extremely detrimental to someone's daily well-being.
So, yeah, imagine having your right being put through that all over again,
and, you know, some people do not have the ability, the cognitive ability or the emotional ability to do that,
and this is why this happens. People, they decide they can't testify in court because they just can't bring themselves to do it.
Of course.
Yeah, why would you want to sit in a courtroom for possibly hours on end staring at someone who victimized you so many times,
and, you know, and then, like I said, just being up there on the stand where you get gawked out by this person who's abused you,
like, there's some kind of sick pleasure I'm sure they take out of it.
Exactly.
So, due to Caroline, Caroline, excuse me, dropping all the charges relating to the case, I know,
the sexual assault charges were actually dropped,
and Rose and Fred would agree to plead guilty to the reduced charges of indecent assault and causing actual bodily harm.
See, I know when, like, they would each be fined,
Sorry.
I know in domestic violence cases, it's the state that usually prosecutes,
and I feel like in certain cases like this, it should be the state or the crown that just takes over the case.
If a victim decides to drop it, there should be some type of consequences for this.
You know, it's not just, it shouldn't just be a waste of their time.
It should be like, clearly, there's something going on here,
and maybe, I don't know, like a strike rule or something.
It shouldn't just be charges are dropped and nobody talks about it again.
Exactly.
It's like just because the victim doesn't want to testify doesn't mean that crime didn't occur.
So both Rose and Fred would be fined 50 pounds each,
and they would be allowed to leave, so they didn't even get time.
They just got fined.
Ugh.
Yeah.
When Carolyn heard the news about the West getting away with their crimes,
she would actually attempt suicide.
She would be unsuccessful, and we wouldn't hear from Carolyn for a very long time after this.
That's fucking sad.
Which is, I mean, that's just more damage, yeah.
I mean, at least if she came forward as a victim, there should be a healthcare put into place for her.
God.
Yeah.
No, I'm not laughing because it's funny.
I'm laughing because it's ridiculous.
Yeah.
So three months after the assault trial of Rose and Fred, on April 19, 1973,
19-year-old Linda Koff would move into the home of Fred and Rose.
The couple had originally met the girl through a male lodger in the beginning of the year,
and she regularly visited the home to see two male lodgers.
So she was at the West House a lot to see tenants that were there.
Lodgers is way too close to loggers, and I don't like it.
Like they're-
Oh, lodgers.
Yeah.
Like they're, what am I thinking of?
Lumberjacks?
Yeah, that one.
Well, they might have been.
They might have dressed up as lumberjacks.
That might have been the thing.
Just climb me a lumberjacks.
On or about April 20, other tenants were told that Linda had been asked to leave the house
after she had hit one of the children.
Wait.
So that's what the Wests were saying.
Like, oh, Linda's gone because we kicked her out because she-
Because she hit one of the kids.
Oh, no.
Mm-hmm.
Oh my God, God forbid.
God forbid someone-
No one else is hitting my kid but me.
Someone hurt these children.
God, what assholes.
So, following her disappearance, Linda's mother would travel to the home and inquire as to her daughter's whereabouts.
Because her mother-
Linda's mother knew she was staying with the Wests, and the Wests just told the other tenants,
like, she's gone because she hit one of the kids.
She left, so, okay.
She left and she went home, but here comes the mom, like, where's my kid?
Mm-hmm.
Cute.
When Rose opened the door to Linda's mom, Rose was wearing Linda's clothes and slippers.
No, she was not.
She was like, I'm Linda.
She was, I'm fucking bitch.
I'm Patricia.
No, she was just like, she stole her shit.
She says.
Rose told the mother that Linda had moved to find work in Weston Supermare, and nothing else really came from this.
She's like, well, can I get my daughter's slippers back at least?
Because I gave her those and I like them.
She's like, well, these were a gift to me before she left.
Oh my God.
On November 10th, 1973, 15-year-old Carol Ann Cooper was abducted after spending the evening with her boyfriend at the movies.
She had been waiting for a bus in Warndon when she vanished and was dragged into Fred's car.
Here, her face was bound with surgical tape and her arms bound with a cloth before she was driven to the West Home.
Carol would be suspended from the wooden beams of the cellar ceiling before she was horribly abused and murdered by both Fred and Rose.
It is thought that her cause of death was strangulation or suffocation, similarly to Linda.
So like I said in part one, I keep saying it is thought that this is what happened leading up to their deaths because like we will see a lot of these people will be discovered.
But what happened between the time they entered the home and their bodies being discovered is really not known.
Interesting. Okay.
So, I'm sorry, Carol. Carol's body would be dismembered and buried in a shallow grave in the cellar.
On December 27th, 1973, 21-year-old Lucy Paddington was abducted from a bus stop along the A435.
Her precise date of death is not known, but it is known that Fred admitted himself to the hospital on January 3rd, 1974, seemingly after sustaining an injury that occurred as he was dismembering her body.
Dumbass.
Like what a fucking idiot. Yeah. Accidentally dismembered his own fucking arm.
Yeah, he's like, oh, I caught off my finger dismembering a body.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, like how do you explain that away?
Sir, is all this your blood or?
Yeah, right. Oh, that's a fucked up.
On April 16th, 1974, 21-year-old Therese Siegseller was abducted by the Wests as she hitchhiked.
Therese was a sociology student at Greenwich Community College, and Fred would initially mistake her Swiss accent for a Dutch one.
He would refer to her as quote, the Dutch girl end quote, or tulip, which I don't understand tulip.
I don't know, is that like their national flower?
The sound of music thing, you know, where she's like on the hillside, but I'm pretty sure those are the Swiss Alps though.
He's wrong in every direction.
Let us know please.
Therese was reported missing by her family in Switzerland when communication from her ceased.
She would become another victim of the Wests. Unfortunately, there's just not a lot of information about what happens between, again, the time that these women are abducted and they're found.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there's probably going to be a lot of those instances where they, I mean, just given the pattern or behavior, people that are probably will go unidentified or people that don't are never found that they probably never admit to.
Exactly.
In August of 1974, Rose was noted as chasing after Fred with a large carving knife.
Fred was able to slam the door of the room into which he had run as Rose lunged at him.
The knife becoming embedded in the door as it was sold.
Like she was trying to get him.
Yeah.
So obviously this abuse is not just happening with the children and with their victims. It's happening within the couple as well.
Yeah.
As this happened, as the knife got lodged in the door, three of Rose's fingers slid like down with it, almost severing them off entirely.
These people are just-
They slid against the blade.
Losing fingers left and right here.
Right. In response to this, Rose was noted as calmly wrapping her hand in a towel and stating, quote,
Look what you've done, fella. You've got to take me to the hospital now.
End quote.
Just super cash.
Oh, I don't like that.
I know.
Can you imagine like slicing your fingers against a knife?
No, I don't like that.
They almost get cut off.
Oh my God.
And then just being calm about it, I'm just shrieking.
It's like, all right now fella, take me to the hospital.
No, take me to hospital.
Oh yes, take me to- oh I shouldn't have said the- I may have recognized it.
On November 15th, 1974, 15 year old Shirley Hubbard was abducted from a bus stop as she was heading home from a date.
She had been attending a work experience in Worchester and was last seen by her boyfriend when she promised to meet him the next day.
She would become the West's next murder victim and was buried in the cellar as well.
On April 12th, 1975, 18 year old Juanita Mott disappeared.
She was living with family when she was last seen, but had been a former lodger at the West home.
Juanita is belated to a belated- sorry.
Juanita is believed to have been abducted by Rose and Fred as she hitchhiked along the B-4215.
Fred would later be known to refer to Juanita as quote, the girl from Newent, and quote, so I guess that's where you- down her or met her?
Newent.
Or where she was from?
I'm not sure.
Newent, I've never heard of that.
Googling.
You think it's like a part of-
Juanita would subsequently be buried under the cellar as well as the other victims.
How'd he find it?
Following the murder of Juanita- sorry.
How do you spell it?
N-E-W-E-N-T.
Yeah, it's Houn in England.
Oh, there we go.
Newent.
Not perfect.
Like this is such a great story.
It's teeny tiny.
From here it would be a 14 and a half hour flight.
Oh wow, that's pretty far.
So we've noticed that a bunch of these victims have been buried under the cellar and following the murder of Juanita, Fred would actually pour concrete over the floor of the entire cellar.
Essentially, covering his tracks.
He would actually later convert this section of the home into a bedroom for his eldest children.
What the f- this-
Yeah.
How much worse can this guy get?
He's like the devil.
Oh, he's awful. He really is.
So over the next few years, there are not any murders that are known between Fred and Rose.
However, Fred would meet an 18-year-old woman called Shirley Robinson in 1977.
As the two engage in conversation, Shirley would be invited to the West Home the same month that she met Fred.
Within the year that she lived there, Shirley would become pregnant.
Rose, being pregnant around early 1978 as well, was initially known to boast to neighbors that Shirley was carrying Fred's child.
She's like, yeah, we're both carrying children of my husband.
Twinning.
Not something to brag about, honey.
However, this seemingly braggie attitude of Rose's soon turned to resentment, and it is thought that Rose did not want Fred to father a child with another woman, no matter how far into the pregnancy she was.
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.
Yeah.
It's all fun and games until this lady's actually gonna have a child with your husband.
Yeah.
In May of 1978, an eight month Shirley- eight month pregnant Shirley would be murdered.
Prior to Shirley's murder, Fred would express to Rose that he was going to sell their baby to a childless couple and even had photographs taken of himself and Shirley for this specific purpose.
Like, you know, you have to provide pictures of the parents to the, you know, the couple.
It's thought that Rose murdered Shirley because she was jealous of the fact, again, that Fred was gonna have a baby with her.
But also like...
The baby didn't survive, right?
The baby did not survive, but that's what I was gonna say. Like, okay, yeah, if you're jealous that they're gonna have a baby together and they're gonna give the baby away.
Like, if the baby's adopted out, then like, what's the problem? You know, like, I mean, you were so cool with her being pregnant in the first place.
Obviously, you don't care that they're sleeping together.
Yeah.
Like, she's just a jealous bitch. And like, the fact that, I mean, she wasn't cool with it. I think she was putting on a face.
Yeah.
She was like, oh, I'm just this cool, I'm just cool wife. I'm cool with anything.
I'm not a regular mom. I'm a cool mom.
Yeah.
Right.
So, Shirley's dismembered body would be buried in the garden of the West home with the unborn child being also dismembered as well and buried, which is disgusting.
Like, that's way too far.
That's beyond, like, that's beyond necessary, you know?
Yeah.
Shortly after the death of Shirley, Rose would file a claim for maternity benefits under Shirley's name with Glaucuster Social Services.
Okay.
So gross.
Like, she's just probably claiming for both of them, her and Shirley.
That's awful.
Rose and Fred would tell them that, I'm sorry, when anyone would ask about the whereabouts, Rose and Fred would tell them that she had relocated to live with her father in West Germany, Shirley had.
So, again, explain it away, you know, where's she gone? Where's she gone?
And it seems like this is a theme too. It's like they bring these women around and seemingly they're in the house for a long time.
So they meet a lot of these lodgers.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden they're gone, you know?
People are going to ask, like, what happened? It's like Dorothea Puente, right?
Yeah, for sure.
And the Death House landlady.
Wake up and you're like, oh, it's like another episode of Clue or something where a new person is dead.
Where's that?
Yeah.
Right.
The following year in 1979, 16 year old Allison Chambers had run away from a local children's home with the intention of being the West's new live-in nanny.
Allison lived in the home with the West for several weeks.
And Rose was noted as promising Allison that she would live at a rural, quote, peaceful farm and quote, that she claimed Fred owned.
So she's, we're going to bring her out. She's going to live at this peaceful farm, right?
I think it's like an innuendo for like the garden.
Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, it's like with the dogs, like, oh yeah, no.
We gave the dog a way to go live on a farm to live out the rest of its days.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, Allison would disappear shortly after moving into the home.
She would be dismembered similarly to the other victims and buried in the garden.
Knowing that she regularly kept in touch with her family, however, Rose and Fred would write a letter posing as Allison and send it to her mother,
stating that she was enjoying her time with the West.
Okay, AJ Holmes.
Right. Allison's mom was noted as being distraught that her daughter had been so happy with this new life away from her.
But as she was growing closer to the age of an adult and after her 18th birthday, Allison's mom decided she couldn't control what her daughter was doing.
And she also didn't know the location of where Allison originally went.
Yeah.
So it's not like she could have gotten her.
Also in 1979, a 15-year-old Anna Marie would become pregnant by none other than her father, Fred.
This is Fred and Rose's, one of their daughters.
What is wrong with you?
Clearly, there's a theme, there's a pattern here, but it's like, why do you continue to have children if you want to live the way that you want to live your life?
I don't understand.
Why are you bringing your kids into it and having kids with your kids?
It's just how much sense of control do you need?
Because he wants more children to abuse.
I guess.
Like, that's what it is.
Not only was Fred the cause of Anna Marie's pregnancy, which would actually become ectopic, he was also responsible for giving her syphilis and kicking her in the face with steel-toed boots.
What the fuck?
This man has to be dead.
Better tell me by the end of this to be part of this, this man is dead somewhere.
Someone killed him, is ask.
This is a lot.
He's literally a fucking monster.
Fred would not be the only man allowed to abuse this helpless child, and Anna would be subjected to sexual abuse by men that frequented the home as well.
Of these men, her own uncle, a man called John West.
John West.
John?
Fred's brother, the only one that's on his own.
The only other John.
John was known to have raped Anna Marie over 300 times just by himself.
That's not including the other men that Fred's allowing to sexually assault her and Fred himself.
How does this like occur and nobody fucking does anything or knows anything?
I don't understand.
It's really hard for me to wrap my hand around.
Because everyone's been on it.
I guess so.
I know, it's disgusting.
It's disgusting.
There's gotta be dozens of people coming through this home, they have to know there's certain things going on, everyone's just cool with it.
How many of these fuckers exist and all within a 10 mile radius?
I gotta understand, but this is fucking gross.
Well, when you're raised with the household that Fred was raised in and the household that Rose were raised in, they probably have a lot of people around that are just cool with shit.
I guess so.
It's like love abuse.
It's a bit irritating.
Yes.
Although Anna Marie was curious about the people in the home who had left or been sent away, quote unquote, she actually remained pretty loyal to her parents.
And for a really long time, she didn't even think she was being abused because she had been taught her whole life that this is just what happens to young girls.
Not to mention Anna Marie being of school age was still somewhat attending public school. However, she would miss 60 days in one school year without anybody being the wiser of what was happening at home.
This is bullshit.
This is like the worst Steve Wilkos show like I've ever seen.
Yeah.
This is awful.
Although she had missed a large amount of school, none of the, excuse me, none of the administration would even investigate what was going on.
They're just like, oh, she just doesn't come to school a lot.
Goddamn.
Shouldn't she like follow up on that?
What region is this?
I want to never go there.
The school would only ever report that Anna Marie had mood swings, but that was it.
There was nothing else in her record that indicated any sort of abuse, potential abuse, suspected abuse, anything else.
She had, yeah, she had mood swings and she got really fat increasingly quickly over a nine month period.
And, yeah, exactly. And then she had bruises on her face, but you know, we just thought kids be kids.
Like what the f-
Yeah. Well, remember this pregnancy actually turned ectopic.
Oh yeah, that's right.
So Anna Marie is now 15. Again, it's 1979 and she's having extreme pain because obviously if no one's familiar with an ectopic pregnancy, it's a pregnancy that gets stuck in your fallopian tube.
It's very dangerous and if it, it can rupture your fallopian tube and you could die.
Yeah. You could bleed internally.
Internally, yeah.
So the Wests would actually do something right for some reason and bring Anna Marie to the hospital to get her help.
Oh yeah, because they totally care about her or the baby.
I think the reason they brought her is because, right, and they didn't want her to say that she was pregnant at school or something or something happened at school.
Excuse me, and then they find out or something.
Yeah.
Anna Marie would undergo a procedure for the pregnancy and return home to recover.
Although she was just 15 and would have most likely shown signs of sexual abuse had she been evaluated, no further questions or private conversation ensued with Anna Marie.
No doctor, no doctor did anything either. Oh, well, I could say that surprises me, but it fucking does at this point.
I could say.
On top of this, even though she was 15, with the pregnancy, social services were not called to check up on the family at all.
So it's like, what the fuck do you want me to do?
I'm taking suggestions.
And she's probably just like, yeah, this is normal. This is what happens.
The hospital is not doing anything to help me because they don't see anything wrong.
Exactly. And it's perpetuating that normality of it because nobody is saying or doing anything about it.
So she's like, yeah, this must just be the way that everyone is because clearly, nothing, yeah, nothing wrong.
Nobody's questioning me about it.
Yeah, no one's trying to help me.
I want to throw this coffee cup.
Unfortunately, it didn't matter that Anna Marie needed to rest or recover after her procedure and the abuse would just continue upon the family returning home.
Just days after she was discharged from the hospital, an altercation ensued in which Rose would hit Anna Marie in the stomach repeatedly, despite the amount of pain that she was in.
In the stomach, like literally right where she just had that moving procedure.
Yeah.
Following this, Anna Marie decided that she had had enough and she decided to run away from home.
Good.
Although she had run away from home, Anna Marie found herself still wanting to send her parents' letters and cards for holidays.
She still had this loyalty to them. Again, she didn't know that it was as bad as it was.
She still sent them Mother's and Father's Day cards, but ultimately stayed away from the family following this.
And she of course didn't get a response when the cards were sent.
No, because they don't give a fuck about her and they're going to try to punish her for running away or trying to do something better with herself.
Yeah, it's just awful. They don't give a fuck about her.
And if she comes back, she's just going to get beaten again.
Yeah.
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With Annamarie out of the house, the abuse of Heather and May would only increase.
If you haven't listened to part one, which I think you should, Heather and May are the other two West girls.
They're the eldest. Excuse me.
This abuse of Heather and May became even more frequent once both of the girls reached puberty.
And Fred was known as being unapologetic in his approach of the girls stating, quote, I made you. I can do what I like with you.
And quote.
God, he makes me so mad.
This is infuriating. Why would you write about this?
Me?
It was a request, Amy Jane.
Oh, OK.
No, but this is wild.
A stoozy of a request. I know.
So wild requests.
And especially not knowing anything about it previously.
This is a wild set of circumstances here.
I didn't know the case either when I started researching it.
Every five minutes I was like, fuck, this keeps getting worse.
Seriously, how do you not like need to walk away?
How many times do you have to walk away?
Quite a few, I'm sure.
Oh, a bunch.
Yeah.
I was like, you know what? I think I need to do a coloring sheet.
I think I need a drink tonight.
Good thing I have healthy coping mechanisms with the exception of drinking.
OK.
So Fred would continually refer to his intentions to impregnate both of the girls and made all
of the children watch porn with him on multiple occasions.
Oh, my God.
This guy is like, it reminds me a lot of like Albert Fish or like Albert Fish is what I
meant to say earlier when I said HH Holmes with the letters, like how he would portray
himself to like say that the girl that he had abducted was like safe still and all the
stuff.
Yeah.
But that's, I mean, that's just shit that Albert Fish used to do.
Like, ugh, this guy's like an Albert Fish.
I'm surprised he doesn't put needles in his butt.
Did he do that?
I think so.
So Heather, May and their younger brother, Steven, were all really close in age and the
three of them would quickly form a pact now that their abuse has increased.
This agreement would state that whenever Fred asked either of the two girls to be alone
in a room with him, they would grab one of their siblings in order to prevent the girls
from being sexually assaulted because he wouldn't do it in front of the other siblings.
He would make sure he was alone with them.
That's weird.
It's silly because he's doing it to all of them, you know, or whatever.
That is strange.
I guess so that maybe he wasn't outnumbered me.
I don't fucking know.
His mind is fucked up.
Oh, God forbid.
Yeah.
They've seen that for themselves.
Yeah.
Furthermore, both Heather and May would develop a plan that they would only shower or undress
when Fred was out of the home or when one of them was available to guard the door that
they were behind.
Steven, while not having been sexually assaulted at this point, was told by Fred that he was
going to have to have sex with his mother by the time he turned 17.
What?
Oh, you're just gonna have to do that.
That's a rite of passage.
Ugh.
And get this.
This is fucked up because if one of the girls refused to do something like this, guess what
would have happened?
They would have gotten fucking, you know, the shit beat out of them and they would have
gotten raped anyway, right?
Yeah.
Steven refused to do so.
He said, I'm not going to do that.
And Fred would just kick him out of the home at age 16.
Like, not that Steven deserved to get abused, but it's like, what's the fucking double standard
here?
He can just say no because he's a guy, you know?
Well, it's fucking gross.
I'm sure the girls were allowed to leave.
It was just that they would get beaten too, you know, if they were to return.
Yeah.
So back at the home, at one point, Fred had managed to get May alone and tried to force
her to let him fondle her.
When she refused, Fred would throw a vacuum cleaner at her and May would be forced to
comply.
I'm sorry, vacuum cleaners back around this time were fucking.
I was going to say they're all like half steel.
Yeah.
Due to the backlash she had received in the past, May had quickly developed a coping mechanism
in which she would tolerate Fred touching her and then make a joke to brush aside any further
efforts to sexually assault her.
Around this time, May would claim that Heather, quote, was affected quite badly by all of
this, even more than me, end quote.
We are absolutely fortunate and privileged to have the parents that we do have.
I can't imagine what it's like to be, to feel like the only, the only people you can rely
upon are people that do this shit to you, you know, like you have no other choice.
It's horrible.
And like, who do you go to?
Like, oh, I'm not going to go to my uncle because he's the one that fucking does that
shit too.
You know, like you can't, you don't have any safe adults around you.
Yeah, exactly.
And you can't tell the school because you're under threat of your parents that if you tell
anyone, they're going to fucking hurt you.
Yeah.
It's horrible.
Heather would be known to complain to her friends about the abuse that her and her siblings
endured and her external signs of psychological stress were seen by many of them.
Additionally, the staff at the secondary school in which Heather and her siblings attended
were known to have expressed concerns as to why Heather, who is usually a serious and
obedient student, was now suddenly refusing to obey orders to change her clothes or shower
after sporting activities at school.
On one particular occasion, Heather was forced to take a shower at school just like every
other student, resulting in staff and peers seeing that her arms, legs, and torso were
covered in welts and bruises in various stages of healing.
Heather would attempt to explain away these injuries as coming from fights with her siblings,
but she would later confide in a friend that the injuries had actually been inflicted by
her parents.
Like strong fucking girl.
It's a brave girl.
She would further confess to this friend that her mother considered her to be a quote, little
bitch end quote who deserved her beatings.
I was going to ask like with all of this abuse that's going on, you know, these kids probably
aren't bathing, showering or any of that stuff.
Like they're probably maybe even malnourished, things like that.
So I was wondering about that like when you said that sometimes she would refuse to take
showers.
I think it was maybe a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B, like she wasn't
forced to take showers at home.
So it's kind of unusual to do that anyways.
But then also I'm sure staff eventually were like, please take a shower.
Like please, because you're clearly not bathing at home.
Like maybe we should encourage her to bathe at school, you know?
Yeah.
And the difference is like this is in like the late 70s, like early 80s, you know, I
feel like now mental health is so widely like I feel like we've destigmatized it a lot.
Like it has a long way to go.
Yeah, I feel like at school, like officials are more aware of those things now.
And if they saw like signs like that today, I feel like it would be more easily recognizable.
And especially if the kid was trying to say like, oh, they're just from fights.
It's like there's no way like fighting with your siblings would look that bad.
Yeah.
Like on your body.
This is purposeful abuse.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So by the mid 1980s, Heather was known to have developed classic symptoms of someone
suffering child sexual and physical abuse.
These included biting her nails until they bled, drinking alcohol at a young age, watching
her father through the corner of her eye, expressing nervousness in the presence of
males, having broken sleeping patterns and not being able to sit still.
There's more in that list, but these are the ones that Heather herself were experiencing.
Due to these behaviors, Fred and Rose actually saw them as disrespectful, even though they
were coping mechanisms.
And they would just immediately begin to assume that Heather must be a lesbian because she's
having so much trouble being raped by her father.
She just must be a lesbian.
She just must be gay.
That makes total sense.
It's the only reason she wouldn't want to be sexually assaulted by me.
Like, go Rose.
No, maybe it's because you're on a porn human being.
Like it has nothing to do.
And you're my father.
Like no.
And you're fucking scum.
Oh no.
Fred, who very obviously did not care much for Heather, would frequently taunt her about
this, calling her ugly and a bitch.
On other occasions, in which Heather got up the courage to confide in her mother about
her feelings of the abuse, Rose would laugh in her face, seemingly enjoying her distress.
I was going to bring up that one time that I think we've already only said it one other
time on the podcast.
I was like, what was that guy like asking your number or something and he was like, lesbian?
Yeah, this guy, I see from my number at the bar like a couple of years ago and I told
him, I was like, oh no thanks.
He's fucking lesbian.
Like, okay.
Like, yeah, that must be the reason.
It has nothing to do with anything else.
It's not that I respect my relationship and I don't want to have such a good guy by me
and drink at the bar.
Lesbian.
Ugh, it's terrible.
Where was I?
Sorry.
Oh yeah.
Around this time as well, rumors of Rose's promiscuous sex life at the home had reached
several of the children's classmates.
Although the West children had been explicitly told not to divulge what happened at the home
at school, Heather would confide in her friends that many of these rumors were true.
So she's like, yeah, my mom's also like running the game at my fucking house.
Oh my God.
While the rumors were spreading around the classmates, their parents were also catching
wind of the West's seemingly strange lifestyle.
This is just the prostitution that they're getting like rumors of.
It's not the abuse.
It's not anything like that.
So it's like, yeah, but the students are talking about it and it's reaching the students'
parents.
Like the parents are like, oh, the Wests are weird.
Okay.
Unfortunately, one of the children that heard the rumor, like the rumors were true, would
confide in their parent and their parent was actually a friend of Fred and Rose and would
in turn tell Fred and Rose that Heather was the one that was telling the secrets about
their home life.
Who the fuck is this parent?
They need to shut the fuck up.
Oh, he was probably a tenant.
Or she, he, whatever.
A client.
Yeah.
Did you hear my stomach make that weird noise?
No.
Really loud.
We'll listen back to it.
So these, excuse me, these details included Rose's promiscuity and Fred became so concerned
with the rumors that he began to escort Heather to and from school to make sure she wasn't
talking to anybody.
She can't talk to anybody at school.
Right.
Heather would leave school in 1986 and began applying at multiple jobs in an effort to
leave the family home.
By June of 1987, without having any luck in her job search, Heather would change her plan
and apply to become part of the cleaning crew at a holiday camp, hoping she would be able
to be gone from the home for a long period of time, like a summer camp.
On June 18th, 1987, Heather would get the unfortunate news that she did not get the
job.
She would break down in tears in front of May and Stephen.
According to May, Heather quote cried all the way through the night and quote, but the
following morning she was quote, back to her usual self, looking miserable, biting her nails
and sitting on the couch bouncing back and forth as she sat and quote.
I don't like where this is going.
I feel like our time with Heather is limited here.
May and Stephen would leave Heather at home as they left for school.
And when they returned, they were told by Fred and Rose that she had left to accept the job
that she had previously been refused.
No.
Damn it.
The Wests had also told the rest of the family the same story.
However, Rose would tell an inquiring neighbor that Heather had a quote, hell of a row, and
quote, and that she had run away from home.
May and Stephen reluctantly took the news that Heather left for work as truth and would
try to go on with their daily lives.
However, they did expect to receive correspondence from Heather in some form, and when they did
not hear from her for many weeks, they began to question their parents again as to Heather's
whereabouts.
At this point, Fred and Rose had dropped the story about Heather leaving for work and were
now telling the siblings that she had left to start a new life with her lesbian lover.
Her lesbian lover.
Yes.
Like, okay.
Oh, shut up.
When, yeah.
May and Stephen began worrying about Heather, and even if she did run away with a woman,
they didn't care.
They just wanted to see if they should report her missing.
They were like, I don't care if she's a lesbian or not, like she's missing.
She ran away.
Let's report her missing.
In response to this, Fred would change his story yet again, saying that it would be unwise
to initiate a search for Heather as she had also been engaging in a credit card fraud.
So he's telling the other siblings, if you call the cops, you're just getting her in
trouble.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess that that would be something that is, in his mind, a good manipulation
tactic, but I'm sure these siblings are like, we still don't fucking care though, because
that's our sister.
But it worked for a little bit.
Because again, these three siblings have a pact.
So they don't want to get her in trouble.
And if they're calling and reporting her missing is going to get her in trouble, they might
not want to do that.
They want her to be good things.
She got out, you know, on more than one occasion moving forward, Fred and Rose were known to
have an unknown acquaintance fake a phone call from Heather to her parents.
So they would answer them, oh, hey, Heather, how's it going?
Can we talk to her?
She's like, no, no, no, no, she's got to go.
She's got to do some more fraud.
Yeah.
She's a lesbian.
She's got to go.
She has no time for us anymore.
She's a lesbian.
I have a lot of time to talk.
So as the years went by with still nothing from Heather, Fred would be known to begin
jokingly threatening the children that they would, quote, end up under the patio like
Heather, end quote, if they either misbehaved or told anybody about what was happening in
the home.
So funny.
It's just a joke.
Wait, you can't take a joke.
It's horrible.
I'm sure we're all thinking it unbeknownst to the other children.
Heather had been murdered by her parents and her body was buried in just in the backyard,
just that close to them.
With Rose's permission, Fred would later construct a barbecue pit immediately opposite
of where Heather had been buried and would place a table on top of her grave for the
children of the family to sit whenever the Wests held gatherings in their garden.
This is fucking maniacal.
This is like beyond what kind of goddamn fantasy world do you live in where this is like acceptable
and that you think that just that it's because they've gotten away with it.
There's been no consequences.
So they continue to push it.
It's like they want to get caught.
They get sick pleasure out of knowing that they're still not caught for it.
It's like Robert Durst.
Like Robert Durst will continue to talk about it for forever.
Like Robert Durst does not keep his own mouth shut because he enjoys feeling like he got
away with it.
Absolutely.
It's disgusting.
Yeah.
It's like power.
Like, oh, I'm going to make you sit right on top of your dead sibling and you don't even
know.
Mm-hmm.
You know.
A few years would go by with the horrific abuse continuing in the household and no leads
on the disappearances of anybody murdered so far, just like you see it.
In May of 1992, Fred would ask his 13-year-old daughter, Louise, to bring some bottles to
a room on the first floor of their home.
Shortly after bringing the stuff, Louise's other siblings would hear her scream, quote,
no, don't, end quote.
Later that day, Fred would return downstairs where the family was.
Louise's siblings would look for her only to find her on the floor writhing in pain.
Through tears, Louise would tell her siblings that Fred had raped and sodomized her, and
at one point he began strangling her.
Once Rose returned home that evening, Louise confided in her that she had been sexually
assaulted by Fred, to which Rose responded, quote, oh well, you were asking for it, end
quote.
Yeah, I'm 13.
I was asking for it.
Jesus.
Over the following few weeks, Louise would be raped on three further occasions, with
Rose bearing witness to one of the assaults.
Following the attack, Rose would head into the bathroom to clean up, Rose would head
into the bathroom with Louise to clean up, as Louise had been bleeding.
Rose followed her into the bathroom stating, quote, well, what did you expect, end quote.
Like she's just fucking vile.
It's disgusting.
Fred, being the gross fuck that he is, actually filmed one of these sexual assaults.
So now he has like, well, I'm sure this isn't the first time he's filmed anything, but
now he has like, hard evidence, right?
Several weeks later, Louise would build up the courage to confide in one of her friends
about what her father had been doing to her.
This friend would in turn tell her mother about what Louise had been forced to endure,
and the mother would anonymously report this to police on August 4th, 1992.
That's a good parent right there.
Two days later on August 6th, 1992, police would search the West home under the guise
of searching for stolen property.
Although numerous items of sexual paraphernalia, including 99 pornographic videos of both
homemade and commercial nature, were discovered, police were not able to locate the video depicting
the rape of Louise.
It seems like everything they found was like, consensual.
It was like either with their clients, they didn't find any evidence of the children or
anybody like underage or anything like that.
Louise would continue her bravery despite this, and would give a full statement describing
Fred's actions.
She included that the abuse had begun when she was just 11 years old, and that her mother
had been indifferent to her struggles over the years.
As a result, all of the children would be placed in foster care the following day, and
medical exams on the children revealed the horrific truth of their abuse.
When being questioned, the West children would state that Rose had been the one to inflict
most of the physical abuse, and that Fred would frequently tell them that if they told
anyone about the home, they would be, quote, buried under the patio like Heather, their
sister.
So she said this to the police?
At this point, yes, some of the kids were corroborated.
They were like, this is what he said, like he would threaten us with this.
At this point, police would begin a full-scale investigation into Fred and Rose West.
The investigation would lead to Fred being charged with three counts of rape and one
count of buggery or sodomy, with Rose being charged as an accomplice.
Rose would also be charged with child cruelty, inciting her husband to engage in sex with
their daughter and obstructing the police.
Fred and Rose were also questioned about the whereabouts of their eldest daughter, Heather,
although Fred would claim that she was, quote, alive and well.
She's just a lesbian.
She's just alive and well.
Who says that, though?
Like, let's quote.
He literally said she's alive and well.
She's alive and well.
How's your daughter?
She's alive.
She's just, yeah.
She's alive.
She's lesbian.
He went further to suggest that she was supporting herself via prostitution, and Rose would claim
to have no knowledge of the location of Heather or even why she had willingly left the home.
A few days into the investigation on August 11, 1992, Rose would, quote, remember now,
and quote, that Heather had left home at her own will due to Rose's concerns that the other
children would find out that she was a lesbian.
Oh, yeah.
Rose was like, oh my God, the kids cannot find out you're a lesbian.
Yeah.
I'm, I, that's it.
She, she, she's a lesbian and she, yeah, that's it.
She wasn't gonna, she wasn't gonna expose her siblings to, to her lifestyle.
That's it.
Remember?
Yeah, right.
I remember now.
Rose would add that she then gave Heather 600 pounds as a bribe to leave the household
and stated that she had also had numerous telephone calls with Heather over the years.
Excuse me.
The following day, Rose would be granted bail on the condition that she did not maintain
contact with her children, her stepdaughter, or her husband while awaiting her trial.
As Fred awaited his trial, he was held in jail in Birmingham.
Hearing the news of the arrests and that Fred had denied any wrongdoing, Anna Marie would
contact police and offer a full statement detailing her personal experiences as a child
growing up in the West home.
So she's been estranged, but she's like, oh shit, like we're gonna get the motherfuckers.
In a statement given to Detective Constable Hazel Savage, Anna Marie would recount the
extensive physical, mental, and sexual abuse that she endured at the hands of her parents
before agreeing to testify in the upcoming trial of Fred.
Anna Marie would also add that she had for several years been unsuccessfully been attempting
to trace her mother, Rena, and half-sisters Charmaine and Heather down.
Anna Marie had since gotten married by this point, and her husband, Chris Davis, stated
that Heather had confided in him about how unhappy she was shortly before her disappearance
and told him of her desire to leave home.
Chris would go further to state that although Heather had not told him any details about
her experiencing any sexual abuse, he had been concerned for her safety and offered
to confront Fred and Rose on her behalf.
He said that in response to this, Heather said, quote, for Christ's sake, don't because
they'll kill us both.
Oh my God, like she's still just so scared.
She was so scared.
Chris left the interview by telling detectives that if they wanted the full details of the
abuse Heather endured, that they should speak to her.
Meanwhile, May and Louise would discuss the ongoing trial of their parents by themselves,
and it became clear to May that Louise was having second thoughts about her confession.
She was the whistleblower though.
She was the whistleblower.
She definitely saved the rest of everyone from having to endure this.
I think so too, but I honestly don't think that she meant to get her parents in trouble.
I think that she just needed someone to talk to about it and her friend did the right thing
by telling her mom and her mom did the right thing by calling police.
That makes sense.
So maybe she's scared, like, oh, I didn't mean for it to go this far.
Louise would also state to May that she did not want to see Fred charged for anything,
and due to this, May would initially deny to authorities when questioned that she had
endured any type of abuse at the hands of her parents.
So she's now trying to protect her sister.
Not getting far with May, police would turn their attention to trying to locate Heather
in order to get some more information.
When they searched records from Inland Revenue and the Social Security Department, they were
unable to find any records of Heather being alive.
Two months later, GLauchester's social services would contact police and stress their concern
about the location of Heather.
So everyone's kind of like, where the heck is this girl?
We don't have any records of her over the last couple years.
On June 7, 1993, Fred would be taken to trial.
Everything was ready to go, and although prosecutors could not locate Heather in time, they felt
confident with the impact statements of Anna Marie and Louise as key witnesses and victims
in the case.
However, when it came time for them to testify, both of the girls would decline to speak.
Both of them?
Okay.
It's one of those themes.
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting.
And again, I don't have that personal experience.
I wouldn't know the emotions that I would be going through.
But yeah, it definitely is this theme with all of the siblings.
It's like once they get close to getting their parents finally in trouble, they kind of don't
want to, not want to, but they feel like they're unable to.
Yeah, they've been under that threat for so long that they're like, oh my God, what
if I say all this stuff and then they don't go to jail?
What's going to happen to me?
Yeah, furthermore, I think knowing how many clients were in and out of the house, they
probably have no idea which adults to trust and which ones not to trust.
Right.
That's very true.
So Louise had said that she didn't want to speak at the trial.
So like she said that at first.
And she just wanted to go back home with her family.
While Anna Marie stated that because Louise wasn't going to testify, she did not want
to put her younger siblings through all that misery.
Unfortunately, the real reason behind the withdrawal of the statements would remain
unseen, Rose.
What?
Due to the lack of evidence, the Wests would be acquitted of all charges.
Oh my God.
Shortly after this, yeah, shortly after this trial or lack thereof, Anna Marie would speak
further with authorities and would explain to them that her mother, Rena, and her half-sister,
Charmaine were also missing.
Upon returning home, all of the younger West children would be kept in foster care, but
were able to be visited by Fred and Rose under supervision.
Of course.
Yeah.
When questioned by their family about the charges, Fred and Rose would fully emphasize
that the allegations were fabricated by police and they were innocent.
Not even by the kids.
They were fabricated by police.
The police hate us.
Yeah.
Why?
Why do the police hate you?
Right.
Because we're rapists.
Yeah, clearly.
Although they tried to convince the remaining members of their family that were not estranged,
that they were innocent, most of the family decided to cut ties with the couple.
As you should.
Meanwhile, police were still investigating the disappearance of Heather and were not
having any luck finding records that she was alive or even ever existed.
Even ever existed?
I don't think that they had a birth certificate when she was born.
Okay.
Like, they never, yeah, they never made a...
I mean, yeah, if they...
I don't know.
They might have had the babies in the house and don't need to know.
Yeah, and if they planned on killing her eventually anyways, then, you know, hey, less
paperwork.
Right.
Police would continue talking with Anna Marie and as things came up, they inquired about
the family joke about Heather being buried under the back patio.
Anna Marie stated that the only time she had heard Fred make this comment, he immediately
burst into laughter and Anna Marie brushed it off as a true joke.
However, this was a little too suspicious to police because they had heard it so many
times and they would continue investigating Fred.
They would find out that although Rena and Charmaine disappeared back in 1971, there
were no missing persons reports filed on either one of them.
Yeah.
Detective Constable Hazel Savage and her colleagues were convinced Heather was dead and that Fred's
joke with his family about her being under the patio may in fact be true.
Due to this fear, Glock-Hester police were able to successfully apply for a search warrant
almost a year later on February 25th, 1994.
Police would arrive at the address with a warrant stating that they needed to search
for Heather's remains.
The warrant said that they were allowed to.
Rose would answer the door and question the police who told her that she did not have
a choice of them entering the residence.
She was...
Get the fuck out of the way bitch.
Oh, bitch.
She was also wearing someone else's clothes.
Again.
Right.
So, Rose reportedly got extremely pale and became hysterical.
She would then shout to her eldest son, Stephen, quote, get Fred, end quote.
That's how she sounds.
Get Fred.
The police wasted no time and began casually questioning Rose about the whereabouts of
Heather and she would become increasingly upset and began yelling.
At one point, Rose was noted as shouting at officers, quote, I keep fucking remembering.
It's a bloody long time ago.
What do you think I am?
The computer?
End quote.
It went from like all these different accents, but you get it.
Fred was actually not home at the time as he had been working out of town.
Stephen would phone him and told him that he and Fred told Stephen that he would be
there as soon as possible.
Three hours later, Fred arrived home and he informed his family of his intention to voluntarily
offer a witness statement to police regarding the whereabouts of Heather.
He's just going to give up.
It took him three hours because you have to get rid of the rest of the bodies in his
trunk.
He had to come up with a fucking story, I guess.
I don't know.
Fred would report to police that Heather was, quote, alive and well, end quote.
However, she was involved in the drug cartel.
And she's, yeah, this time she's in the drug cartel.
And she's a fraud.
And she's a lesbian.
Stupid.
He also mentioned that although he and Rose joked about Heather being buried under the
porch, it was just that, a joke.
Well, he stated that the comments were crote rubbish.
Rubbish.
The police were not amused by this statement and openly told him that they did not believe
him.
Like, oh yeah, I don't believe you.
Fred would respond to this by changing approaches and he claimed that the police had held a
grudge against him because of his acquittal of the rape of his daughter back in 1993.
Well, he was acquitted.
He's like, well, you still think I'm a rapist even though I was acquitted.
Yeah, so they're trying to frame him.
You weren't acquitted.
Yeah.
That same evening, the search team left the home while a uniformed officer remained at
the excavation site.
Around this time, excuse me, around this time, May and Stephen observed Fred and Rose talking
in a hushed tone as they repeatedly looked from the kitchen window into the backyard
by the garden.
The following morning, eldest son Stephen got up for work and as he was getting ready,
Fred stopped him.
Fred stated, quote, look son, look after mom and sell the house.
I've done something really bad.
I want you to go to the papers and make as much money as you can.
And what?
Shortly after this exchange, police would return to the West home to continue their search.
Upon their arrival, Fred approached them and told him that he should be arrested for Heather's
murder and he was willing to give them a full condition.
No.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, go ahead, that's fine.
So I named my mom as that.
Mom.
Yeah, Mom.
That's fine.
I mean, what about you.
I send it just like two bars ringульty.
I would give notes.
I'd give you that.
Wait.
No.
Yes, Yes.
Yeah.
Just like
sense, make some money.
Wow.
He's a fucking narcissist.
Like, that's the one thing he's been doing for his son.
So that is part two.
Fred has just been arrested.
They have not found anything at the home just yet.
That corroborates the bodies or anything like that.
Obviously, Rose is just chilling.
She's scared, but she's just chilling.
And we know the truth at this point, of course,
but investigators don't.
So in part three, we're going to talk about if Fred was arrested
after this or not, if Rose was arrested after this or not,
and then the aftermath of everything.
They're acquitted again.
Right.
Yes, but thank you guys for joining us.
Again, Amy Jane, thank you for the request.
We will have part three next week.
And I don't think I have anything else.
No.
You're in Alaska right now.
Isn't that weird?
I know.
That's really weird to say that.
Because, well, technically, I'm not.
But when you guys are hearing this, I am.
Yeah.
That's weird.
Weird.
Yeah.
It's going to be great.
We will see you guys in a week.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.
You don't need real ink to make an impact.
Let the power of temporary tattoos tell your story.
Temporary tattoos specializes in a wide range
of temporary body art, including custom tattoos,
with the option to add unique effects like metallic,
glitter, glow in the dark, and so much more.
Temporary tattoos are easy to apply and last up to five days.
When you're ready for your new look,
simply remove your fake tattoo using their lemon-scented
removing wipes, rinse, and repeat.
Temporary tattoos, experiment with a new look
without the commitment.
Use the link in the show notes below
to enjoy your exclusive offer and bring your new look to life.