Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Kenna. And I'm
Koel. How's it going? You know, this is interesting. This is a...
It's new for us. We actually can see each other, which is nice. Yeah, we can see the
nonverbal cues now that we couldn't in the last episode. That's awesome. Yeah, we're
getting better at this whole recording in different rooms thing, but I think it's going
well. Yeah, I can definitely see how it would be beneficial in the future whenever we do
want to record. And maybe one of us is on vacation or maybe one of us or maybe we don't
live together anymore. Let's face it, that's going to happen.
It's going to happen eventually. So we might as well learn how to do it now in order to
avoid not having issues in the later. Well, today is the start of our ginormous three-parter
that we have been teasing for a number of weeks that I have been researching for a number
of weeks. And I am so excited to get it out there. It is a request by listener Amy Jane.
So thank you Amy for this request. We hope that we do it justice. And before we get into
this long-ass part one, would you like to give everybody our social media handles?
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Yeah, after your three-porter.
Yes. All right, are you ready for this?
Yeah, I've been wanting to tell you for so long.
I'm excited.
Okay, so today we are going to be talking about Fred and Rose West.
Fred and Rose West?
Yes, it's a British case.
It's a British case. Oh, I love these.
Content warning. This episode contains depictions of the brutal deaths of children, incest,
bestiality, graphic sexual and physical abuse of children, graphic descriptions of illegal
medical procedures, serious symptoms of mental illness, grooming of young children, suicide,
dismemberment of adults and children after death, and necrophilia. If this episode is
not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes. Remember, your mental
health is very important and we love you.
Love you. Bye.
Ready? Yes. Here we go.
Frederick Walter Stephen West was born on September 29, 1941 at Brickerton Cottage,
much Markle. Hair for Shire? Is how you say that?
Hair for Shire? Yeah, I know. I'm not, you know, I'm not from there.
He would be born to parents Walter Stephen West and Daisy Hannah Hill, and the family
was known as being poor farm workers. The family would be described as close knit and
very protective over one another. Walter West was known as being a disciplinarian, while
Daisy was known as being very overprotective of her children. Already, the gung-ho parents,
we see that. In 1946, when Fred was around four years old, the family would moved to
Moor Cart Cottage, where Walter would pick up work as a milking herdsman and harvest
hand. A milking herdsman?
Yeah, I think he just like milked cows and he was like a rant hand, but they call it
a harvest hand. A harvest hand?
Yes, which I think is adorable. The cottage that the family moved into was known to not
have any electricity, and the family was known to use a log fire to keep warm during the
winter months.
Over the years, Walter and Daisy would have eight children altogether, but unfortunately,
two of them would pass away at a very young age, causing the family to grow up with six
children.
Okay, so, I mean, when was this again? What was the year?
In the 40s.
So, yeah, I mean, people get sick, don't have access to healthcare, stuff like that.
Right, yes.
Although he was one of six children, Fred was known as being his mother's favorite and
a real mama's boy.
Even though he was super close with his mother, Fred was also known to lean on his siblings
for friendship as well during his childhood.
The children were expected to perform assigned chores as soon as they were old enough, and
all of them were also asked to engage in seasonal work for the family.
Seasonal work?
Right, one of those families, it feels like they kind of had a lot of kids because they
needed a lot of help.
Yeah.
The girls would be assigned in picking hups and strawberries for cooking while the boys
were tasked with harvesting wheat and hunting rabbits.
Hmm.
Sorry, there's a loud noise in the background.
Oh no.
Needless to say, the children were all shown the necessity of hard work at a young age,
as you typically see in ranch families.
Mm-hmm.
Fred would make later claims that he was sexually abused by his mother at the age of 12, that
he had engaged in bestiality in his early teens, and that he truly believed during his
childhood that incest was normal due to him seeing his father engage in it with his sisters.
Escalated quickly.
That escalated so quickly.
Right, and it's like, where's the poop?
But then like, there it is.
There it is.
Well, it was so normal, right?
They look like such a normal family.
Mm-hmm.
It was normalized for them.
That's sad.
However, with Fred saying all these things, his brother Doug would later refute these
claims stating that Fred just had a wild imagination.
Because imagination makes things like that up.
Yeah.
While a neighbor of Fred would describe him as, quote, a bit cheeky, a bit mouthy, but
that was the way these kids were, end quote, classmates of Fred would describe Fred as
lethargic, dim, scruffy, and regularly in trouble.
So he almost has a mask in certain areas of his life.
What do you like to say that people can adapt or they're like chameleons in their environments?
Yeah.
Yeah, I would say so.
You know, especially if you grow up in a home that has hostility, I think that it's
easy to not want to rock the boat too much.
So you kind of very much have, like you said, like a chameleon aspect to yourself because
you have to be malleable in order to survive.
Right, right.
Now where was I?
Sorry.
Um, Fred was barely literate throughout most of his childhood.
However, he was known as showing interest in woodworking and art.
Hmm.
Needing to continue and support the family, Fred would drop out of school at the age of
15 in December of 1956.
Following leaving school, Fred would gain employment as a laborer in Moorcaart Farm.
And in 1957, Fred and his older brother, John, were known to frequent a youth club and socialize
with other kids from the next town over.
Socialized, sure.
Yeah.
It reminds me of Willie Pickton and his brother.
Yeah.
The family farm, they bring everyone over.
Fred and John having different accents than the kids in the local area were quickly dubbed
as unintelligent, which is not cool.
Right?
On top of this though, Fred was known as aggressively pestering the girls at the youth
club and would frequently be seen approaching them quickly, only to fondle them before he
could stop them.
It's not funny.
I'm sorry.
That's not funny.
That's disgusting.
Yeah.
I want to, I'd duck a kid.
Oh, I would punch someone so hard.
Like, don't fucking touch me at all, first of all, and don't touch me inappropriately.
Like, oh my God.
I know what you're saying.
Like, the imagery is funny.
Like, scuttling.
Yeah.
Exactly.
At one point, Fred would approach a girl that actually accepted his advances and the two
would engage in sex.
She was like, into it.
And how old was he?
Like 12?
He was, between the ages of 15 and 16, because he dropped out of school at 15, he's probably
16.
That's right.
Yeah.
And he found out that this girl did not find the experience with Fred satisfying and explained
that Fred's primary objective during sex was strictly his own gratification.
Okay.
Which is so gross.
Like, get away from me.
That's gross.
That's such a juvenile mindset, though, I feel like, in a course or whatever.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, I think that, you know, what we've seen so far is that he really hasn't, he's clearly
stunted, first of all.
Yeah.
You know, because of the abuse at such a young age, but yeah, for him to, you know, yeah,
there's no real world that he exists in, you know, there's no, it sounds very selfish,
I guess, in a way.
Yeah, he's a fool.
Like you said, he's only looking for self gratification.
At the age of 17, Fred would get in a motorcycle accident and from this, he would suffer a
fractured skull, a broken arm and a broken leg.
Following the accident, Fred would be unconscious for seven days.
Oh, damn.
Once he awoke, he was reliant on braces for his legs to help him walk for several months.
Ain't you ever seen a little boy with braces on his legs before?
Right.
That's what it reminds me of.
Fred would develop severe PTSD from this incident, including an intense fear of hospitals, which
understandably so.
Furthermore, he would develop a sense of rage in which he would throw fits for lack of a
better term.
And he would also have a metal plate inserted into his head from this accident.
Oh, geez.
Kind of seems like he might have damaged his frontal lobe a little bit.
Oh, great.
We love damaging our frontal lobes.
That's something that is.
Just the greatest.
But yeah, this is just something that everybody enjoys having a damaged frontal lobe.
And it always turns out great.
It's great, yeah.
Two years later at the age of 19, Fred would suffer an additional head injury when he tried
to grope a girl on the fire escape of a youth club or the same youth club.
Did she push him off?
In response to this, the girl would punch him and Fred would fall two floors to the ground
landing on his head.
Oh my God.
Like he could have died.
But he did it.
He just got damaged to his frontal lobe.
Oh no.
Oh my God.
Again.
Oh, Travis.
In June of 1961, Fred's 13-year-old sister by the name of Kitty told her mother that
Fred had been raping her since the previous December.
Kitty had kept the sexual assault a secret until this point, excuse me.
When she told her mother that she was impregnated by Fred.
Oh my God.
Okay, this guy's a monster already.
It's horrible.
Daisy would call authorities who would promptly arrest Fred.
Upon being arrested, Fred would freely admit that he had been molesting young girls since
his early teens, stating, quote, doesn't everybody do it?
End quote.
I mean, that's what he was taught.
He was taught that's how boys and girls are men and women.
Women participate with each other.
Like that's, oh, that's so sick.
He's probably like, wait, that's illegal?
Like in his mind.
I can't see that.
Yeah.
So for this charge, Fred would be tried on November 9th, 1961.
Even though she was horrified and disgusted by her son's actions, Mother Daisy agreed
to testify on Fred's behalf.
Daisy was scheduled to testify against Fred as the victim, however, shortly before her
scheduled testimony, she would change her mind and refuse to testify.
Because the key witness in the case had dropped out, the entire case would fall apart.
Although Fred did not get convicted of any charges, most of his family would disown him
following this event.
Daisy would ban Fred from the family home, causing him to move into the much more marital
house of his aunt Violet.
So his family's like, I don't want anything to do with you.
Even though you didn't get convicted of this, you did it.
And you're out of here.
Yeah.
I mean, they have other kids, so I'm sure.
And he's already in his teens, late teens, so they probably are like whatever.
So he went to go live at his aunt's, is it like a boarding home?
No.
It's just the, I think it's called much Markle.
It's like the area.
That's the name of it.
Oh, okay.
But his aunt, her name is Violet.
He used to, sorry, he moved in with her.
So I lost my mind.
I lost my mind.
I lost my train of thought.
Don't worry, I just lost my mind.
Oh, my God.
Oh, geez.
Okay, so at this point, it is mid-1962, and Fred had actually reconciled with his parents
at this point, but not with any other members of his family who had originally disowned
him.
They're like, you can forgive him, but we're not going to.
Yeah.
In September of 1962, a 21-year-old Fred would become reacquainted with a woman by the name
of Catherine or Rena Bernadette Costello.
Rena was from Coatbridge, Lanarkshire, and the two had first met at much Markle dance
hall in 1960.
I'm sorry I'm butchering these names.
It's fine, you're not finished.
So this is an old friend of his.
Her name is Rena, and they just reconnected.
The two dated briefly back in 1960, but ultimately separated just a few months after when Rena
had returned to Scotland to be with her family.
The two would quickly get married just two months after reconnecting on November 17,
1962.
Rena was actually pregnant at the time of their marriage, and it was thought that since
the father of her child was an Asian man, and Rena's family expressed concern for her
child being mixed race, that she had left Scotland and returned to England to get away
from them.
At the time of the wedding, Fred's youngest brother, John, was the only one in attendance.
The only one.
No one else.
That was a red, there should be a red flag for Rena, like I'm sorry, you have no friends
or other family?
Yeah, even, well he has family, the family just doesn't care for him.
That's a red flag.
So the couple would originally move into Fred's aunt's home and then move to Coatbridge where
Fred would pick up work as an ice cream van driver.
Crete.
Oh man, that's molested children in the past.
Yeah, that also checks.
Yeah.
Another red flag.
Rena would, oh sorry.
Rena would give birth to her daughter in March of 1963 and named her Charmaine.
To explain the child's mixed race to friends and family, Rena and Fred had claimed that
Rena had suffered a miscarriage and that Charmaine was actually adopted by the couple.
That's so sad.
Because neither one of them were of Asian descent, right?
So it wouldn't make sense in their mind to have an Asian-descented child unless she was
adopted, right?
I know, but that's messed up though.
Oh, it's terrible.
That's still your blood.
Right.
And the little girl's probably, I don't know, later in life, it would be fucking pissed
away from that.
Yeah, a million questions as to where she actually came from.
Exactly.
I mean, parents.
Oh, that's sad.
Shortly after Charmaine was born, the family would relocate to the Bridgetown district
of Glasgow.
In July of 1964, Rena would give birth to her and Fred's first child, a girl they named
Anna Marie.
A girl.
A what?
So sorry.
A what?
A girl.
A girl. The family would hire a nanny by the name of Issa McNeil to assist with the children
and neighbors of the family at the time would describe Rena as a considerate mother, quote,
struggling to bring up two children, end quote.
They also noted that Fred seemed to have treated the children quite harshly.
Unbeknownst to the neighbors at this time, Fred would keep the girls in the bottom of
a bunk bed with bars fitted to the space between the bunks, effectively caging them while he
was home.
What?
John.
I mean, it didn't escalate quickly, but like just like what?
I don't understand.
Like clearly this man has been abusing children his whole life.
And how was he able to like manipulate a woman with a child?
And then ultimately, I don't think she knows his past.
You know, but still like, I just, yeah.
Okay.
So, what's the story about your Rena?
Well, it's crappy because his past charge, he was never convicted of because they got
dropped because of the witness or lack thereof witness testimony.
So as far as the girls being in the makeshift cage, they were actually only allowed to be
out of it when Fred was at work when he wasn't at home.
He was like, yeah, what's the mom doing?
He didn't want to be bothered or what?
Yeah, I think so.
Fred and Rena around this time would be introduced to their nanny's friend by the name of Anne
McFall.
So this is a friend of their nanny Issa.
Anne McFall was 16 years old and she had recently lost her boyfriend in a workplace accident
and was notably going through a depressive patch when she met the, excuse me, when she
met Fred and Rena.
Anne would begin coming around the home a lot, seemingly to keep herself busy and hang
out with people that made her happy.
Unbeknownst to Rena, Fred was having numerous affairs in the early years of their marriage
and even fathered another child with another woman from Scotland.
Is she blind, deaf and mute?
I don't understand what Rena's up to.
What is going on here?
I don't really know much about this Rena.
I don't know if she was just ignorant or if she was kind of messed up as well and just
didn't really care.
I don't know.
That's the irony that you don't know what's going on.
This isn't like the 1800s where someone has no other choice but to be with any man that
will take her.
You know what I mean?
That's a good point.
This is a stretch.
Well when Rena caught wind of Fred's affairs, rather than divorcing him, she decided that
she was going to get even and she began her own affair with a man called John McLaughlin.
I'm sure Fred does not give up.
Oh he doesn't care.
He's like, I do.
Thank you.
Take her off my hands.
I'm sure he doesn't fucking care.
Right?
Since Rena knew about Fred's extramarital affairs, she did not exactly feel the need to be sneaky
about hers.
In one instance, Fred would walk in on Rena and John doing the deed and in response, Fred
would punch Rena in the face.
Like what?
Not him, but her.
Yes.
This caused Rena to of course scream and also in response, John would punch Fred in the
face.
Fred would then draw a knife.
So this is like escalated quickly again.
We've seen that this whole time.
This is out of control.
I'm sure she was like, oh no, Fred.
You walked in on us.
She's like, oh.
I'm sure she's trying to make him jealous.
Yeah.
Fred would lunge at John with the knife, grazing his abdomen in the process.
John would punch Fred once again, which caused Fred to stop his attack altogether.
Years later, John would comment on this event stating, quote, he couldn't tackle a man,
but he wasn't so slow in attacking women, end quote, which is funny.
Well, I mean, that's his forte.
He loves to attack women.
And children, yeah.
So despite all this, John and Rena would continue their affair and John would begin to see more
and more scrapes and bruises on Rena as the months would go on.
This would obviously enrage John.
And each time he would confront Fred, he would beat him in return.
He would end the response.
Like it's almost like it's kind of, it's not funny, but it's almost kind of silly to
me.
It's like, this seems like it's been multiple times where he confronts Fred and kicks his
ass for hurting Rena, but he's not taking Rena away from Fred.
I think it has to probably do with the kids.
It has to be.
Yeah.
In another instance, John stated that he witnessed Charmaine, who was just a little older than
a toddler at this time, ask Fred for an ice cream from his van.
In response, Fred hit Charmaine across the head and John would kick Fred's ass again
for this.
Why would he hit her?
He has ice cream.
He doesn't want anything to do with her.
He's like, get away from me.
Yeah.
John would say about this.
He's like, go back to your cage.
Like seriously.
John would state about this incident with Charmaine, quote, any ordinary man would have
given the child some ice cream, but instead he smashed her around the head with his hand.
He was a violent and sadistic bastard who enjoyed beating up women and kids, end quote.
It's just awful.
On November 4th, 1965, Fred was driving his van when he accidentally ran over and killed
a small boy in Glasgow.
Oh my God.
Fred would be questioned by police, but would ultimately be cleared of any wrongdoing.
They like deemed it an accident.
Okay.
Yeah.
Although he was not held responsible for this, Fred became concerned that the locals
would resent him for the accident, locals that he relied on to support his business.
That's what you're concerned about?
I mean, he's abusing everyone around him.
Like you're worth hating my dude.
Right.
Due to this concern, Fred would make the decision to rent a caravan and move his two children
back to Glaucuster.
So he say that, Glauchesta?
Glauchesta.
Glauchesta?
Reena would join Fred and the girls in February of 1966, accompanied by both Issa McNeil and
Ann McFall, who all moved into the caravan together.
So it's now Fred, his wife, their two children, their nanny and their nanny's friend.
Then he's banging all of them.
You can see where this is going.
This is awful.
Tell me this guy becomes a cult leader.
Oh, geez.
So shortly after the move, Fred would find employment driving a lorry for a local abattoir.
Essentially he was assisting at a slaughterhouse.
I had to Americanize that phrase because I didn't know what that meant.
By early 1966, Fred was back to his usual self and was consumingly domineering over all three
of the women in the home.
He was known to be prone to violent mood swings, with Reena and Issa taking the brunt of his
rage.
Fred was known to have attacked Charmaine on multiple occasions as well and was reported
to have begun sexually assaulting her at this time.
She's a child.
Like an actual child.
Fred would somehow talk Reena into re-engaging in prostitution as she had done before they
got involved and she would agree to make money for the family.
I know.
It's like all over the place.
No more.
Oh my God.
At this time, Reena had had just about enough of their relationship and she would phone
John McLaughlin begging him to come rescue her and the children from Fred.
Did he?
Well, I was going to say.
Another, Reena, John and Issa came up with a plan.
John and Issa's boyfriend, also named John, would secretly drive to where Reena was and
discreetly take her and her children as well as Issa back to Scotland.
Anne on the other hand was not upset with Fred's actions around this time and was actually
quite on the opposite side.
Again, this is the friend that was 16 when they met.
They had become infatuated with Fred who had previously promised to marry her.
Oh my God.
That's another thing like an abuser does.
I've seen it in a few cases where, especially when the, well, I guess we saw it in Aaron
Caffey and Charlie Wilkinson, right?
He was like a few years older than her and he was able to control and manipulate her
on the promise of eventually marrying her.
You're at a formidable year at that point.
That's when you start looking towards things like lifelong companionship and what that looks
like for you.
You start dating and all that.
So yeah, for sure.
Some older gents that's like, I'm going to take care of you, even though he's living
out of a fucking van.
Yeah, but he's also, I mean, in her mind, he's established.
He has children, so he's a good man.
He makes money.
In her mind, he's this real off guy, right?
It's just gross.
So Anne actually did know about this plan to rescue Rena, the children, or and Issa, but
it's actually thought that she alerted Fred as to what was going to happen.
So Fred would actually arrive at the home as the same time as the Johns.
Mm-hmm.
Like, like her prostitutes.
I'm sorry, because he said Rena was prostituting.
Yeah, that is funny.
The Johns sound funny.
But yes, no, John and John.
And it was noted at this time that Anne was, quote, oddly calm, end quote, as she told
the group that she was just going to stay with Fred and act as the children's new nanny.
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
An altercation ensued between John McLaughlin and Fred, resulting in Fred being hit several
times as he was holding on to his two young girls.
Well, that's sad.
But also, he's also had a lot of head trauma before.
It's true.
This isn't helping.
I haven't heard him anymore.
I mean, he's very mentally ill.
We can establish that right now.
But let's just duct tape him in some bubble wrap and he'll be okay.
Put him in a padded room.
No, that's terrible.
So at this point, police were called and the two Johns, Issa and Rena, would leave the
home.
Fred, threatening to kill Rena, should she ever return again?
I'd be like, okay, bye.
See ya.
Well, this is now leaving Fred with the two young girls, though.
And Anna is with him as well.
So Rena, like, she's kind of like, no, I don't want to leave my fucking children with you.
Yeah.
So Fred's threat would turn out to be a false claim, as Rena, wanting to make sure that
the girls were being cared for, would frequently travel from Scotland to England to visit the
girls.
Despite initially maintaining her friendship with Anna, Rena slowly began to resent her
presence around her daughters.
After all, her and Fred were more than just friends at this point.
She's not just the nanny, you know.
Yeah, she's gonna be like second mom.
Of course.
On October 11th, 1966, Rena would steal belongings from Fred's caravan out of resentment and
return to Glasgow.
She would be arrested the following month and on November 19th, Rena would be sentenced
to three years probation for theft charges.
Yeah.
Where your kid's gonna go now?
Fred would testify at the hearing like a dumbass, not like a dumbass, but like he was like
on trial and now he's the one testifying.
Oh my god, in the victim, you know.
I get to be the victim.
During the trial, he stated that he and Anna were living together, but that she intended
to return to Scotland soon.
Like she's not staying forever.
She's just the live-in nanny.
I see.
Yeah.
During the trial, Anne would move into another caravan close by, while Rena would still split
her time between Scotland and England.
Anne would write letters to her family between the years of 1966 and 1967, suggesting that
she believed a relationship with Fred could offer her a better life than she had in Scotland.
These letters also stated that Anne was trying to persuade Fred to divorce his wife and marry
her instead.
On July of 1967, 18-year-old Anne, 8 months pregnant, would vanish.
What?
Anne McFall vanished.
Oh my god.
Fred would go on with his life and actually would move Rena back into his home just a
month later.
What the fuck?
By the way, the listeners don't know this, but we did a little bit something different
with our video and audio and it's so much better.
I can see you in real time now and hear you in real time and it's perfect.
I love it.
So now Rena and Fred, living back together, would relocate to the Lakehouse caravan park
where their relationship would vastly improve.
Rena would ultimately leave again the following year, however, and would again leave the children
in Fred's care.
So their relationship improved for just a minute and then she left again.
Yeah, I thought he said he was going to kill her if she came back.
Exactly.
Well, this time, Fred was left to care with the girls alone, but he was reportedly temporarily
placing them at this point into the care of Glastisher Social Services.
I know that's how you pronounce that because I wrote it phonetically because it's a very
big word.
Glastisher.
So the girls being in the social service care would only go on for a few years and in early
1969, Fred would meet a girl by the name of Rosemary Letts shortly after her 15th birthday.
Oh my God.
Oh.
It's a deep.
Rosemary Pauline Letts, or Rose, was born on November 29, 1953 in Northam, Devon.
Rose was the fifth of seven children born into the poor family of William Andrew or
Bill Letts and Daisy Gwendolyn Fuller.
Their moms have the same name.
Gwendolyn.
Rose's mother was known as suffering from depression in her adult life, and she would
undergo electroconvulsive therapy before and immediately after her pregnancy with Rose.
Okay.
Some people would later argue that the ECT may have caused prenatal development injuries
to Rose as a newborn, which is...
Kenna and I just looked directly into the camera at each other and our faces got closer
and closer because we were like, nobody wants to be electrocuted for therapy.
Of course not.
Nobody wants to.
That's so dangerous.
Nobody does that willily.
They're not like, oh, okay, sure.
Sure.
The bot advised me.
Thank you.
Front to low.
So Rose's father was also noted as being diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and it was prone
to violent behavior and maintaining a domineering presence in the home.
Yeah, this is just already a thing.
Well, it's very reminiscent of what Fred experienced with his domineering mother and
clearly they're being trauma and disorders in that family as well.
Of course.
So growing up, Rose struggled with bouts of aggression and poor performance in school.
She would be described as a moody teenager who was prone to daydreaming.
And with the household being tumultuous most of the time, Rose's mother Daisy would make
the decision to leave Bill and she would take Rose with her.
Rose would attend Cleave school for six months while living with her mother, but ultimately
Rose would move back in with her father near Cheltenheim Glossischer.
And that's that big word again.
It was noted that around this time and most likely in the previous years, Rose and her
eldest sister Patricia were being sexually abused by Bill.
Once Rose had reached puberty, it became apparent that she was very proud of her developing
body.
She would reportedly be fascinated by her body and walk around the house deliberately
parading naked or semi-naked and showing off her maturing figure.
But again, like this is so bizarre to us, but it's like that is a child of sexual abuse.
Like you're made to think that you're so sexualized at such a young age.
Of course you're going to be proud of it when you start looking like a woman.
You know?
Right, of course.
Rose was also known to do this parading around intentionally in the presence of her younger
brother Graham.
On numerous occasions at the age of 13, Rose was known to sneak into nine-year-old Graham's
room at night and sexually assault him and her other younger brother Gordon.
Oh my God.
Again, it like runs in the family if you will.
It's a product of, yeah, the environment she grew up in.
Traveling alone, Rose was waiting at a bus stop in early 1969 when she encountered a man
by the name of Fred West.
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Like I said, Rose had just turned 15 a few months prior and she was originally turned
off by the 28-year-old Fred's unkempt appearance.
He's 28.
Was he bald?
I don't know.
Raymond Fernandez.
This feeling.
And I love that I'm dating a bald man.
That episode you did say he was bald a bunch.
It was pretty funny.
And he's bald.
Well, he's just gross though, so you can say that.
Yeah, he was gross.
So the disgusted feeling that Rose originally had when she met Fred quickly turned to flattery
when Rose noticed that Fred was unapologetically and very openly admiring her appearance, like
sexually.
Of course, Rose loved showing off her body, so she loved the attention that she was getting
from an older man.
Over the next few days, Rose and Fred would see each other again at the same bus stop,
and Fred would eventually ask Rose to go on a date with him.
She would initially refuse, but did say that Fred could walk her home.
She's like, no, but let's walk and walk.
Let's go down this dark alley.
Yeah, there's a dumpster.
So through their initial conversations, Fred was surprised to find out that Rose had never
been in a relationship before because she was overly promiscuous.
Fred would gain more trust from Rose when he told her that his ex-wife had abandoned him
and his two daughters, leaving him to fend for himself.
Oh no.
Oh, poor me.
Through their conversations, Fred was able to discover that Rose had worked at a nearby
bread shop.
Armed with this information, Fred would persuade an unknown woman to enter the bread shop and
give Rose a gift and tell her that a quote, man outside, end quote, had asked her to present
this gift to her.
Like, that's fucking creepy.
You're like, take it away.
Yeah, he's like, she's like, oh, it's that gentleman outside.
And he's like, like, friends around all creepy.
He's all creepy.
He's on all fours.
Yeah, he's on all fours.
He looks like he smells like Old Era and he's got like Russell Brand hair.
He's like, it's just gross.
He's like, he's 28 years old, courting a 15 year old.
And she already said no like twice and he's like, well, just send her a gift.
She can't say no to me.
So a few moments after Rose received this gift, Fred would enter the shop and ask her
to join him on a date that evening.
Rose would accept.
This guy's a loser.
Shortly after this date, Rose and Fred would begin a romantic relationship.
Rose would begin coming around the Lake House Caravan Park and she would almost immediately
notice that the two young girls were clearly being neglected by Fred.
She would do her best to take care of the children when she was around and she would
frequently try and encourage Fred to take the girls out to do fun things, even just
to go flower picking or something to get them out of the house.
Yeah.
Within weeks of her first meeting, Fred, Rose would quit her job at the bread shop in order
to become a full time nanny of Charmaine and Annamarie.
Oh, that's what he's been doing, right? He's like having them be nannies quote unquote
and then exploiting them.
Right, live it nanny.
This decision by Rose to become the nanny or of Rose to become the nanny would be made
when her and Fred came to the agreement that he would provide her sufficient money to give
to her parents on Fridays in order for her to pretend that she was still working at the
bread shop.
So I guess she wasn't technically a live nanny but she was there like all during the
day.
Several months into their relationship, Rose would introduce Fred to her parents who were
pretty thrown by her choice of partner.
Like this guy looks like a dog.
Rose's mother Daisy was unimpressed with Fred while her father Bill was extremely disapproving
of their relationship.
Bill would threaten Fred.
Well, he's not a great guy either.
Bill would threaten Fred directly and promised to call social services if he did not end
the relationship because at this point, like you got to think about it, Fred's the adult.
Like, Rose doesn't have the ability to consent in this relationship.
You are the adult, you need to end the relationship.
Yeah.
Although Rose's parents would forbid their daughter from continuing to date Fred, she
would defy their wishes and continue to see him.
Who does that sound like?
What do you mean?
Aaron?
Aaron Caffee?
It's like every other relationship, toxic relationship we've ever casted.
So Rose's parents would make a visit to Glossischer Social Services and explain that their 15-year-old
daughter was dating a much older man.
Not only this, but they also stated that they had heard rumors that their daughter had begun
to engage in prostitution at his request.
That sounds familiar too, just like Rena.
In response to this, Rose was placed in a home for troubled teens in Cheltenham in August
of 1969.
She would only be allowed to leave under controlled conditions, and when she was allowed to return
home to visit her parents on the weekends, Rose would almost immediately go to see Fred.
I know.
It's like, you don't understand that this guy is bad for you.
Yeah, clearly.
On her 16th birthday, Rose would leave the home for troubled teens and return to her
parents' house.
She wanted to go see Fred at this point, however, he was serving a 30-day sentence at this time
for unpaid fines and theft charges.
He's just continuing to commit crimes.
Yeah, because why not?
Clearly, he's gotten away with it for years at this point, so he's just going to keep
going.
Upon Fred's release, Rose would leave her parents' house without permission, of course,
and would move into the flat that Fred was living in.
Yeah.
I'm just like, bye.
See you later.
I live here now.
Shortly thereafter, Fred would fully retrieve his children from Social Services because
they had to go back when he was in prison, obviously, or in jail.
On this time as well, Rose's father Bill would continue making efforts for her to not see
Fred anymore.
I guess it was kind of hard to explain, but I guess what transpired to this is that he
took her to the doctor to maybe try to prove something.
I'm not sure.
But either way, in February of 1970, the doctor determined that Rose was actually pregnant,
and in response, she was again placed into Social Services care.
She's like 15 or 16, right?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Maybe the dad kind of knew that she might be pregnant, and he was trying to get Fred
in trouble.
Like, look, she's pregnant.
She's with this guy.
That's not cool.
Yeah.
However, shortly after being placed into care, Rose would be discharged yet again on March
6th with the understanding that she would terminate her pregnancy and return to her
family.
So she told them that she was going to do that.
However, this is not the truth, and Rose would quickly move back in with Fred, resulting
in Bill telling her that she was not allowed to set foot in his household ever again.
I mean, her dad's a piece of shit.
Yeah, I'm just saying.
She's probably like, cool.
Yeah.
And then she's moving into a home with an abuser that's just as bad as not worse than her
father.
It's just this poor girl.
She probably thinks that Fred is like heads and shoulders above her father, though.
Yeah.
And there's a reason that probably deep down she's attracted to him because of that.
It's familiar to her.
So three months after this, Fred and Rose would leave the flat and relocate to a new
home in Glaucuster.
On October 17th, 1970, Rose would give birth to a daughter that she named Heather Ann.
There is actually speculation that the true father to Heather was Bill, and this is still
speculated to this day.
So that might have been another reason why he took her to the doctor and wanted her to
terminate.
Yeah, terminate.
He's kind of using it too full of like, oh, this guy's abusing my daughter.
Clearly she's pregnant, but like also terminate the pregnancy because clearly it's mine.
Yeah, clearly it's mine.
Oh, my God.
So two months after the birth of their daughter, Fred would be imprisoned once again on charges
of theft.
He would remain in prison until June 24th, 1971, which was a six month total sentence,
and which Rose was left to care for all three of the girls.
Keep in mind, Rose is just 17 at this point.
Yes.
So during the time that Fred was incarcerated, Rose would begin telling Charmaine and Anna-Marie
to refer to her as their mother.
Ew.
You can just call me mom.
I'll be like, automatically.
Just call me mom.
I have, so you got to call me mom.
Anna-Marie and Charmaine, now living with Rose, were still not free from the criticism,
beatings, and other form of punishment that they were getting with their father.
Anna-Marie was known as being generally submissive and emotional, while Charmaine would frequently
anger Rose by not showing any signs of distress or tears, no matter how severely she was physically
abused.
So just to clear that up, like Rose comes into this and she's like, oh, these girls are
clearly being neglected.
I need to help them.
I need to do this and that and the other.
And then she's sort of adapts this lifestyle that Fred has and she's now doing that to
the children as well.
Yeah.
Well, I think it's probably also a matter of like, she only has one biological child
and she doesn't have, like the other two kids are not her biological children.
So she therefore feels like she can abuse them because they're not her blood.
She probably resents the woman that had these children before.
And so since she's like, yeah, she's like, oh, well, you know, you're going to have to
call me mom, but essentially she has no emotional connection to these children.
If anything, she has resentment against these children because she's also a child herself.
Yeah, of course.
And she doesn't understand how to process things like jealousy or, you know, any of that other
stuff.
So, you know, instead of she can't take it out on the biological moms, so she's going
to take it out on the child.
Right.
And then she grew up in the use of household herself and now she's seeing Fred and now
she's like, oh, this just must be what people do, like to the children of ours.
So despite the years of abuse, they had already suffered.
Charmaine would remain adamant that it would soon be over stating to Anna Marie, quote,
mommy will come and save me, end quote.
Oh my God.
I know.
It was also noted that around this time, Charmaine would frequently tell Rose, quote, my real
mommy wouldn't swear or shout at us, end quote.
Like it's very sad.
Oh my God.
I know.
A childhood friend of Charmaine's called Tracy Guiles would later report an incident
in which she had entered the home unannounced, only to see Charmaine naked and standing on
a chair gagged with her hands bound behind her back with a belt.
Next to her stood Rose with a wooden spoon in her hand.
Oh my God.
According to Tracy, Charmaine had been, quote, calm and unconcerned, end quote, while Anna
Marie was stood close by with a blank look on her face.
Like it was so casual.
Yeah.
It's just, yeah, it's the level of abuse that they're used to.
On March 28, 1971, hospital records show that Charmaine had received treatment for a puncture
wound to her left ankle, which was explained by Rose that was the result of a household
accident.
Shortly before Fred's prison release, Rose took Charmaine, Anna Marie and Heather to visit
him on June 15, 1971.
Either on or shortly after this date, Charmaine would go missing.
No.
Tracy Guiles' mother, Shirley, who lived in the upper flat of the home, stated that her
two daughters had been playmates of Charmaine and Anna Marie.
She stated that her family had moved away from the upper flat in April of 1971, but one day
in June, she brought Tracy to visit Charmaine, only for Tracy to be told by Rose, quote,
she's gone to live with her mother and bloody good riddance, end quote.
So she sent her away to Rena is what she was saying.
I was just about to ask, like, do these people not have, like, where are the neighbors?
Where are the friends?
Like, where are the family?
Like, where's the electricity man?
You know?
Like, the plumber.
Like, did nobody see anything?
Like, nobody's saying anything?
No.
People are missing, disappearing and getting abused.
Right.
It's like, it's almost like a don't ask, don't tell kind of thing, which is shitty.
Yeah.
So hearing this, that her friend was back living with her mom, Tracy got upset.
She began to cry.
And Shirley would later note that this, like, conversation definitely occurred while Fred
was still in prison because he wasn't there.
And she knew he was in prison.
Other people would begin to inquire about the whereabouts of Charmaine, to which Rose
would explain that she went back to live with Rena.
When Fred was released from prison, Anna Marie would begin asking him where Charmaine went,
to which he stated the same thing.
She was with Rena.
Anna Marie asked why her father, asked her father, excuse me, why her mother had come
to get Charmaine, but not her.
You know, that's my mom too.
Yeah.
To which Fred responded, and this is fucked up, quote, she wouldn't want you love, you're
the wrong color, end quote.
Like what?
She just did it again when she leaned into the video.
I can't do it in person.
I have to lean.
You hear, you hear what I'm fucking saying?
Oh my God.
Like that's fucked.
Oh, it is horrible.
Oh my God.
So I'm sure you're not surprised.
It is believed that Rose murdered Charmaine shortly before Fred's release from prison
and would store her body in the coal cellar of the home to await his return.
Once he was back home.
Who said that?
Sorry?
Who said that?
I'm saying it's believed.
This is like speculation.
Okay.
I'll clear it up later, but once he was back home.
They said it.
Fred would bury Charmaine's nude body in the yard close to the back door, but remained
adamant that he did not dismember her.
So yeah, it is known that when Fred returned home, he buried Charmaine's body in the yard,
but it's believed that Rose had murdered her and kept her waiting his arrival home.
Okay.
So do you think that it was maybe, I don't know.
I'm not going to say accidental because clearly she would be responsible for it, but like
she abused her to the point of death, you think?
I'm not sure.
Personally, just knowing like the whole story, I think it was intentional, but I guess you'll
have to make your opinion at the end of everything because I'm not exactly sure.
Yeah.
Because everyone has different.
Some people think that Fred killed her, but he was in jail.
It's a lot of speculation in this part.
But yes, so unfortunately Charmaine would be murdered and buried in the backyard.
While Rena was seldom visiting her children, she did care about their well-being, and in
the later half of August, 1971, she would come visit to inquire about her children's
whereabouts.
Well, Charmaine's.
It seems as though when Fred was incarcerated, Rose was not allowing Rena to visit her kids
or even talk to them.
So I guess when he came back, she's like, okay, now that he's back, I'm going to go
fucking find out what's going on.
Yeah.
Well, I'm sure that she was abusing her that old, abusing the kids this whole time.
She didn't want Rena knowing.
So Fred's sister-in-law named Christine would later recall that Rena seemed depressed and
extremely anxious about her children's welfare.
I think you're right.
She was like being like, she was not allowed to know.
She would finally locate Fred and Rose and confront them likely to discuss or demand
custody of her daughters.
This would be the final time that Rena was seen alive.
Again?
Oh my God.
It's terrible.
So he has killed the girlfriend, the little girlfriend, and then now the daughter is dead
and now Rena?
Yes.
Oh my God.
It is believed that Rena was murdered via strangulation, most likely in the backseat
of Fred's vehicle.
And I say it's believed because again, a lot of these bodies have been discovered, but
as far as what happened to lead them to death, it's all hearsay.
On January 29th, 1972, Fred and Rose would get married now that he's a free man.
Oh my God.
Yeah, it's like, oh, let me just kill my wife.
Let's go get married.
The ceremony would take place at the Glauchester Registrar Office with Fred declaring himself
as a bachelor on the paperwork.
You're gross.
Hilarious.
Well, I'm a bachelor.
I'm not married.
There have been things.
He's not an eligible one.
No family or friends were involved with this marriage either aside from Fred's brother
John who acted as best man.
John's just a loyal motherfucker.
I guess so.
Several months later, Rose would become pregnant with their second child and the family would
move once again.
Initially, the three-story home was rented by others and many of the upper floors were
converted into rented apartments to supplement household income.
To make sure his family had some privacy, they were on the bottom floor.
Fred would install a kitchen and washroom on their floor to ensure that they did not
need to be bothered by other people in the upstairs area.
He also told the other lodgers that only he and his family were able to enter the garden
area.
On June 1st, 1972, Rose West would give birth to the couple's second daughter, May, June,
happily named due to the fact that she was most likely in labor in the months of May
and June.
It's not.
It's so creative.
But it's M.A.E., right?
She did a little bit of work.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
It's May, June.
May, June, July, August, okay.
Shortly after giving birth to her second child, Rose would begin working as a sex worker,
operating from an upstairs room at their home.
Again, part of the pattern.
In addition to her prostitution, Rose would also engage in casual sex with both male and
female lodgers in the home and people who Fred encountered during his work.
But he knew about this.
It wasn't like she was hiding this from him.
Well, I'm sure he doesn't care about her as long as she's getting paid.
The money up front.
Rose would be known around this time to brag frequently about how no man or woman could
ever completely satisfy her.
Like you're gross.
No one needs to know that.
You're done.
No one needs to know.
On top of this, Rose was known for being particularly physically harsh when engaging in sex with
women.
She would gradually increase the brutality to which she subjected her partner, including
partially suffocating them or inserting large sex toys into various areas to inflict pain.
If the women resisted this or expressed any fear or concern, this would make Rose really
excited.
She would usually respond to any concerns by stating, quote, aren't you woman enough to
take it?
End quote.
Like fuck you.
Oh my god.
I'm woman enough to tell you to fuck off.
Like get away from me.
That's sick.
To many of the women involved in sex with both Rose and Fred, it became apparent that
the two of them took particular pleasure in taking women beyond their sexual limits.
In order to satisfy their fetishes, the couple would create a large collection of bondage
and restraining devices, magazines, and photographs.
They would later expand their collection to include videos depicting bestiality and graphic
sexual, child sexual abuse, excuse me.
Yeah, so it's like, and again, it seems like it escalates quickly, but it's like this couple,
they're feeding off of each other.
And with their shitty upbringings, like they're just getting worse together, you know?
And I'm sure he has a lot of influence in that.
The room that Rose used for her sex work would become known as quote, Rose's room, end quote.
And it had several hidden peepholes allowing Fred to watch her with her clients.
Oh, my God.
Oh, he's like, he's like a, like a cuckold type of guy.
So gross.
But still, yeah, I think that she's not a very creative person.
She named her daughter Mae June and now her room is Rose's room.
Yeah, right.
So anyway, not shaming anybody for their sexual fetishes, but as long as it's consensual,
and apparently this is not consensual with these women, like clearly.
Right.
That's, yeah.
I mean, not, yeah, kink shaming is my kink.
So, I'm kidding.
But no, I mean, yeah, not to kink shame anyone.
I mean, do you, but you know, yeah, it's when it, when it is that, you know, these clients
of hers are probably people who want to keep something like that private and not be known,
like a well-known thing.
So she's utilized, she's essentially blackmailing to get sexual gratification of them.
I feel like, like she could at any point be like, well, you're going to do what I say
because I'll tell everyone, you know, kind of a thing.
You know, nobody wants to be outed.
And it's also like everyone's doing it.
Like why not?
You know?
Yeah.
So, in the top of the P-Poles, Fred would also install a baby monitor in the room in
which he could listen from anywhere in the home.
The room also included a private bar and a red light installed outside that would allow
people to know when Rose was using the room, like don't come in.
Gross.
She had her own red light disturbed.
Yeah.
Lastly, there was only one key to this room and Rose was known to wear it around her neck
at all times.
Like no one else was allowed in there besides her and her client at the time.
She sounds like a villain of like a storybook.
Villain origin story.
Yeah.
It's like Sweeney Todd, H.H. Holmes, Rose's room, you know.
Rose's room.
Double R.
So, due to the fact that she was making most of the money, Rose was in charge of all of
the money that her and Fred made and most of it would go to home improvements, quote,
unquote.
Okay.
By 1977, Rose's father Bill had come to at least tolerate her and Fred's marriage.
He would reluctantly become civil with Fred and the two would eventually open a cafe together
that they named the Green Lantern.
Well, the business would not work out very well and the men would soon find themselves
not being able to pay the bills to keep it afloat.
So once Bill discovered that his daughter was engaging in prostitution, he did what
any father would do in this situation and he would go visit her himself for his own
pleasure.
Oh my God.
Isn't that fucking disgusting?
When I wrote that, I was like, oh my God, I literally cannot believe that.
He's like, you're dead to me.
I don't want to see you.
You're not allowed in my household.
Oh, but let's have sex really quick.
I'll pay you for it.
Like that is so fucking gross.
This is not in my house.
Oh my God, that is so disgusting.
What a fucking loser.
And then you know, that's the only reason that he was trying to be chummy with fucking
Fred.
No, well, yeah, I mean, it sounds like more like he's like a jealous ex-boy from the
knees of father.
Exactly.
He's so gross.
By 1983, Rose was known to have given birth to eight children, at least three of whom
were fathered by her clients.
Yeah.
Johns.
Yes.
They were all named Johns.
Although they were not all his, Fred would willingly accept the children as his own and
falsely told them that the reason their skin was darker than their siblings was because
his great grandmother was black.
What the like?
That's not how that works.
Right.
And you're such an idiot.
Like, so stupid.
And you know, he doesn't care about these children.
He's going to keep them because it makes them look like a good guy because he has all these
coods, you know, it's not for any other reason for his, other than his own pleasure.
No, of course.
And then if anything, it's a cycle of abuse because he's going to continue to abuse the
children psychologically and physically.
And you know, it benefits him to make these children feel like, oh, my dad's so great.
He accepted me even though I'm not his or whatever it is.
Or I am his biological child in order to like lull them into this false sense of security.
This just grows.
Exactly.
When each of these children reached the age of seven, similarly to Fred's upbringing,
they were assigned daily chores to perform in the house.
They were rarely allowed to socialize outside of the household unless one of their parents
were there.
They were also made to follow strict guidelines with severe punishment, usually physical,
being the penalty for not following the rules.
I know.
It's just like the same thing you write the cycle of abuse.
Yeah.
The vast majority of the physical beatings came from Rose, with some coming from Fred.
In one instance, the eldest daughter Heather and her younger brother Steven would run away
from home to escape the violence.
However, the two would return home after several weeks of sleeping at friends' homes or outside,
and they were both beaten upon returning home.
For returning?
For returning home.
This is literally the reason I left.
Now you're going to continue to do it as soon as I get back.
Between 1972 and 1992, the West children were admitted to the accident and emergency department
of local hospitals 31 times.
For various injuries or investigations surrounding their physical injuries?
Each time the injuries were explained away as accidents and none would ever be reported
to social services.
That's negligence.
Who the fuck is negligence?
Who the fuck is not saying anything?
On another occasion, Steven was mopping the floor with a cloth and Rose accidentally stepped
into the bowl of water he had been using.
In response, Rose would just...
Sorry.
There just happened to be a toaster in the water.
God, that's terrible.
No, this is not funny, though.
She slipped and she accidentally fell out of her head and ended up in the oven.
Sorry.
She fell.
It was an accident.
In response, Rose would hit Steven over the head with the bowl and then repeatedly kicked
him in the head and chest while shouting, quote, you did that on purpose, you little swine,
end quote.
Like, yeah, I strategically placed this bowl of water that I'm using to clean right in
the way of your big fat foot.
Like no.
On another occasion, Rose became enraged about a missing kitchen utensil and in response,
grabbed a knife she had been using to cut meat, repeatedly inflicting light cuts on
May's chest, covering it in knife wounds.
What the fuck is wrong with this person?
While this was happening, May was reportedly shouting, quote, no mom, no mom, end quote,
as Steven and Heather stood by helplessly.
The torture of the children in the home would only get worse from here on out.
In September of 1972, Rose and Fred led eight-year-old Anna Marie to the cellar at their home, where
she was forced to undress.
Anna would initially hesitate to undress, causing Rose to snatch her dress and tear
it from her body.
Anna Marie was then restrained and raped by her father, with Rose actively encouraging
the act.
Following this, Rose followed Anna Marie to the bathroom and handed her a towel to clean
up, stating, quote, I'm sorry, everybody does it to every girl.
It's a father's job.
Don't worry and don't say anything to anybody, end quote.
Oh my, I have to leave.
I have to get out of here.
This is disgusting.
No, it's gross.
Like, it's a father's job to protect his fucking children, not to abuse them.
That's so gross.
Rose and Fred would go on to make it clear that this would not be the first time this
would happen, and if Anna Marie said anything to anyone that they would beat her.
Rose would occasionally take it upon herself to sexually assault Anna Marie on her own,
and took extreme gratification and binding her to different things before encouraging
Fred to assault her.
And it gets much more detailed from there, but I just couldn't even put it in here.
From the age of 13, Fred and Rose would force Anna Marie to prostitute herself within the
household.
However, the couple would tell clients the Anna Marie was 16, because that's better.
Well, they're like, oh, she's 16?
Cool.
It's the UK though.
They can drink at 16, I'm pretty sure.
I guess.
That's so gross.
Rose was always present in the room when this occurred, mostly to ensure that Anna did not
reveal her true age.
On one occasion, when Anna Marie was about 13 or 14, Rose took her to a local pub and
insisted that she drink several glasses of barley wine.
Several hours later, Fred would arrive at the pub to pick the girls up.
Once they had left, Anna Marie was pushed into the van and beaten by Rose, who asked
her, quote, do you think you could be my friend?
End quote.
Oh, I'm sorry, before she was sexually assaulted by both of her parents in the vehicle.
So it's like you brought me out, you're acting like we're all cool, you're giving me drinks,
like you're a cool mom, and then you're berating me for thinking that you're a cool person?
Or what?
She's got, again, this is a teenager.
She has a teenager's mind, and she's stunted at that age just like Fred.
They're both stunted at a very young teenager, and they don't know how to process emotions
in a way that's not demoralizing to someone else.
Yeah, it's absolutely horrible.
In October of 1972, the West family would hire a 17 year old, Carolyn Owens, to be a
nanny for the children.
Oh, okay, she's gonna die.
I know if you heard the date in 1992 earlier, I did say that, but I was just giving a general
now we're back to 1972, because I was trying to say how many times they had gone in within
20 years.
So now we're back in 1972.
Carolyn had visited her boyfriend one night and was hitchhiking home when Rose and Fred
picked her up.
Hearing that Carolyn did not have a good relationship with her stepfather and was looking for a
job to get away from him, the West would offer her part-time employment as a nanny for three
of their children, and even promised that they would drive her home each Tuesday.
Several days later, Carolyn would move into the home with the West family.
She would be placed in a room with Anna Marie, whom she would immediately notice was, quote,
very withdrawn, end quote.
Rose would explain to Carolyn who had inquired about the amount of men who were coming and
going that she was a skilled masseuse.
And the happy endings are my specialty.
Ew, gross.
Well, just want to say from like ghosts, it just reminds me of what would be Goldberg
when she's like, Molly, you endanger girl.
You got to get out of there.
What are you doing?
But how is she supposed to know any better?
These people are clearly good at masking their true selves.
They're clearly good at being fake.
And I guess that with her not having the full realization of what she got into until she
met Anna Marie.
According to Carolyn, Fred also told her that he was skilled in performing abortions.
Should she ever find herself in need of one?
Just foreshadowing.
What an odd thing to say.
Geez, Louise.
What an odd thing to fucking say.
Fred would talk to Carolyn about sex almost constantly.
And it became clear that something was off when Fred told her that the women whom he
had performed abortions on were usually so satisfied that they would offer him sex in
return.
That didn't fucking happen.
Like that did not fucking happen.
That is a serious delusion.
You are so gross.
Like that is delulu why it's fine.
You are nasty.
I thought you were going to say that he was like, oh yeah, all the abortions I performed
were on my own family.
Oh, that's gross.
No, he didn't say that.
Well, I don't know.
You might say that.
He's at some point.
Probably.
That's probably where he gets the majority of his experience, which is gross.
That's true, which is really gross.
So Rose and Fred would quickly begin making sexual advances towards Carolyn, but she was
not interested in taking them up on it.
Carolyn would announce her intentions to leave the home and she would quit returning to her
home.
However, Rose and Fred knew that Carolyn was commonly hitchhiking in a certain area and
together they would come up with a plan to abduct her.
So she got out, she left, she's home, but she's still hitchhiking.
Not to blame her at all for saying they know this.
And it was very popular in the 60s and 70s too.
Of course, yeah.
Fred would state that he initially asked Rose if she would be willing to assist him in the
abduction to which she agreed.
On December 6th, 1972, Rose and Fred would come upon Carolyn on the side of the road.
They would lure her into their vehicle with apologies for their conduct and they offered
her a ride home.
Initially, Carolyn believed that the apologies were sincere and essentially kind of gaslit
herself into thinking that she was just misreading their initial advances.
So scary.
I know.
She's like, well, I must just be like, I mean, they're really cool people.
Maybe I was maybe just being like, yeah, maybe I was just paranoid.
Maybe I haven't had enough life experience that I wouldn't.
I don't know if this is the way adults are.
Rose would hop in the backseat with Carolyn stating that she wanted a quote girls chat
as Fred drove.
Shortly after getting in the backseat, Rose would begin fondling Carolyn as Fred asked
her if she had engaged in sex with her boyfriend earlier that evening.
Like he wanted to know if she had recently had sex, which is gross.
When Carolyn began to protest, Fred stopped the car and began referring to her as bitch.
He would then punch her into unconsciousness before Rose bound and gagged her with a scarf
and duck.
Oh my God.
Carolyn would be given a drug cup of tea to drink before being gagged once again and
Rose and Fred would both begin sexually assaulting her.
At one point, Fred made a comment on the appearance of Carolyn's genitals and then began hitting
her in that area with a leather butt.
When Carolyn screamed, Rose would smother her with a pillow and continue the assault.
So horrible.
At this point, Carolyn realized the gravity of the situation she was in and would stop
resisting hoping that it would benefit her.
The following morning, one of the children would knock on the door that Carolyn was restrained
in and she would scream out for help.
Oh my God.
What is happening?
So they took her back to the house when she was unconscious.
Fred would come into the room and threaten Carolyn by telling her that he would keep
her locked up in the cellar and allow his quote black friends and quote to abuse her.
And when they were finished, he would bury her body beneath quote the paving stones of
Glaucuster and quote, which is really fucking.
I'm in shock right now.
Fred, yeah, Fred then claimed that he had killed hundreds of young girls, adding that
Carolyn had only been brought back to the home for quote, Rose's pleasure and quote.
And that's what we're going to stop for part one.
I am fucking gooped, gagged.
What is happening?
Right.
So we're stopping there for part one.
It just gets worse from here, y'all, and obviously these people are fucking monsters.
It just gets more and more like you have your hands on your face.
Like you can't even fucking talk like what the fuck.
It is plot twist after plot twist.
And we just simply don't have time to make this less than a three-parter.
So we're going to end here and we will see you guys in a week for part two.
And by the time you hear part two, I will be in Alaska.
I'm really excited.
But we're going to go ahead and cut it here.
Do you have anything else before we?
I don't.
I really just, I can't wait to record the next one.
This is, this is insane.
This is insane.
Yeah.
And then as far as mental health and all that stuff that we usually talk about, we'll do
that at the end of part three just because we can recap everything at the end of that
and we'll be able to kind of dive deeper into that.
But very clearly, like a lot of abuse from the start, you know, we see the cycle of abuse
that obviously turns into shitty situations like this sometimes, you know?
And it's up to people, you know, most of the time to break that cycle.
And unfortunately that does not happen in certain situations.
And it just, it's just sick.
It's just fucking sick.
I think especially since they continue to, yeah, they're constantly pushing each other
to perform these abusive acts on others.
And they have, you know, a company in that, a company meant in that, you know, they get
essentially like support, it's negative support, but support in that.
And it's encouraged.
And, you know, you don't feel like I'm sure neither of them really, I'm sure they both
know that it's wrong.
I'm not saying that they don't, but with the added pressure of someone else saying that
it's not wrong, it's just, I mean, it'll continue to happen.
Yeah.
I'm one of them, like I said, trips and falls inside of an oven or jumps off a cliff by the
end of this.
So we'll see.
Oh man.
Well, unfortunately in part two, there is a lot more horrible crime to come.
And then of course in part three, we will talk about the end of their reign of terror,
if you will.
But yeah, come visit us again next week for part two and we will see you next time.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.