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Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of diagnosing a killer.

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I'm Kenna.

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And I'm Gowell.

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And I just took our Christmas lights down today.

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It's Marsh.

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She read my mind because I was leaving the house earlier and I was like, oh my gosh, we still have our Christmas lights up.

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And we don't even have them plugged in.

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So it's not like it's like a nice ambience at night.

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But yeah, but it's like if they're off, then it looked like if they're not on, then it's like we don't really have them on.

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Because it's not Christmas time, so they don't need to be on.

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But then you can like totally see them during the day.

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Like they're really happy.

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It's like staunch white.

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Oh god.

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Stark white.

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Yes.

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Well, it's been a day already.

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I'm tired, but I'm glad that we're here.

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We do have a requested case today from our lovely friend and listener Andrea.

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And I will get into who I am covering in just a second.

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But before we begin, if it's anybody's first time here, would you like to give them our social media?

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Sure.

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You could check us out on social media platforms at diagnosing a killer other than X, formerly known as Twitter, which is at killer diagnosis.

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Email us. We also have a, well, it's diagnosing a killer at gmail.com.

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Yeah, we always just say email us.

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Yeah, just email us, you know.

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We also have a Venmo, a PayPal, and a Cash App PayPal.

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We'll have to look into that.

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I think we have a PayPal.

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Do you think so?

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Someone has our PayPal. It's there.

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I don't know if it's us.

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Someone has our PayPal.

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If you guys would like to support us monetarily, we have all three of those platforms.

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We also have a Patreon, and every month our tier two and three Patreon members gets a bonus episode.

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February got two bonus episodes, so yeah.

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So I think.

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It's a lot of content to binge.

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Yeah, there's close to like 10 extra bonus episodes.

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I think there's like seven or eight extra bonus episodes.

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Those are Patreon only tier two and three.

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No ads, no content warning, any of that.

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Yeah.

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All of our Patreon members also get access to free, ad-free episodes.

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Blah.

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I can't talk.

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It's all right.

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It's my case.

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Did you see my bathroom that I room?

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Not my bathroom.

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I'm going to call it my bathroom now.

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That's so funny.

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Yes, it looks good.

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Oh my gosh.

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It's so cute.

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The one thing I do want to do is like in the corner, put a little like toilet paper holder,

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or like a white bees holder or something.

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There's a lot of space in that bathroom, but I definitely went for like Zen Garden Chic.

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Yeah.

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Like a hint of Thai influence because I love elephants.

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So yeah.

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It's always fun remodeling something or like changing something and then you feel accomplished.

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I love that.

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It makes me feel good.

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It's so funny because like the rest of the house, not that the rest of the house is bad,

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it's just two boys live there.

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So it's like bare walls and stuff.

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And then you walk into this bathroom and I'm like, who lives here?

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Whose bathroom is this?

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And the like shaggy rug is like this deep forest green so it looks and feels like grass.

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Oh, that's cool.

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Oh my gosh.

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I love it.

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You're just going to spend all your time in that bathroom?

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I'm going to have to post pictures of it because I'm pretty proud.

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You're going to have to.

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Yeah.

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So I'm going to go ahead and get right into this episode.

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Remember, this is a request from friend Andrea and today we are going to be talking about

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Pam Hup.

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Pam Hup?

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I don't think I know who this is.

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I feel like when I saw the suggestion, I recognized the name, but as I was doing my research,

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I was like, I really don't think I knew this case before I started researching it, but it's

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wild.

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Is it Pam like calm?

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There's a silent L?

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No, just PAM.

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Okay.

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P-A-N?

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M?

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P-A-M.

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Like the cooking screen.

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Oh, two M's.

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Just one M.

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Okay.

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P-A-M.

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Have you ever seen Step Brothers?

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No.

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Oh, okay.

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I mean yes, but no, not enough.

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Was I just bamboozled?

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You weren't bamboozled before.

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Damn.

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You've been bamboozled.

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Damn it.

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All right.

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Let's get into this episode.

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It's a very simple and quick warning.

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This episode contains depictions of death from serious illness, raw audio of persons in

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distress, suicidal tendencies and actions, and taking advantage of vulnerable people.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health is very important, and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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So yeah, that's what we're working with here.

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So in order to talk about Pam Hupp, we first need to talk about her parents.

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A soul was born on November 16, 1935, and she would attend Floresont Valley Community

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College after growing up.

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Following this, Shirley would enroll at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and would

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get a job teaching grade school after graduation.

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Shirley would meet a man by the name of Victor Joseph Newman Jr., and the two would get married.

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I don't know if it was quickly or not.

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At some point they got married.

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Victor was born to his father, Victor Joseph Newman Sr., and Sylvia Jones Newman.

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Victor would grow up to become a union man who worked for decades at Union Electric.

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On October 10, 1958, Shirley and Victor would welcome their daughter, Pamela Marie Newman,

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to the world.

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Hmm.

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They would also welcome two little boys as well, Michael Newman and Dan Newman, and

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another girl by the name of Sherry Newman.

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But no, no Randy Newman, so.

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No Randy Newman.

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No.

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The family was raised in Delwood, Missouri, and by all accounts, Pam had a pretty normal

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upbringing.

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From her parents' perspective, Pam was a sweet child who rode bikes with her friends and

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went Christmas caroling every year.

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Who does that?

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Right.

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I mean, like we used to have gandada, but that's like different.

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That's way different.

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We're not knocking on people's doors this thing for too long.

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Yeah.

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I wonder if that's, I mean that's a sweet thing to do, but I feel like a very rare thing

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to do, so.

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Especially now.

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Like I don't think I hear about that ever.

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I've heard it over in Texas, everybody's gun owners.

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Well, yeah, it's also like hot even during Christmas.

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So Pam was known for her enthusiastic nature and noticeably long blonde hair, and according

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to her friends, Pam was quote, boy crazy.

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Let every, what teenager is in boy crazy, you know, at some point.

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So due to her being very interested in boys, Pam's grades were not the best during her

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time at Riverview Gardens High School.

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While here, Pam would meet a boy who was soft spoken, well liked, and a member of the golf

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and soccer teams, as well as the National Honor Society.

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Really accomplished young man.

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The two would attend prom together, and just three months into dating, they would quickly

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get married.

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I thought you were going to say something else besides married, but no, we'll get that

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checked.

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They would quickly get married.

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That checks out.

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The couple's marriage would last following high school, and they would move into an apartment

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together.

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However, their marriage never really flourished in love or even financially, and the two would

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get divorced after only six years together.

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They would separate, but not before giving birth to a daughter by the name of Sarah.

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I couldn't find this man's name.

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I'm not sure if that's on purpose or not, but I really looked at all it said is like

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her ex-husband.

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Like I never named him.

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He's probably like, fuck that.

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Or maybe she didn't talk much about him.

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You know, they were so far removed and he never came out from the shadows.

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Yeah, well, if he was as soft spoken as he was described, he probably wouldn't go to

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the media or anything.

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Whatever it is happens.

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It's true.

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He's like, oh, that's my ex-wife.

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He's like, whoa, fuck that.

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I'm gonna hit on this shit.

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She's the one that's the title of this episode.

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Who?

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The title of this episode.

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Sometime around this time, Pam would hold down several jobs in the life insurance industry,

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and on two separate occasions, she would be fired for forging signatures.

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So, little petty crimes here.

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Yeah.

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Sometime later, Pam would meet another man by the name of Mark Hupp, and the two would

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get married as well.

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And a reasonable amount of time of dating each other.

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I think I said not sure exactly how long they knew each other before getting married,

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but it seems like it was sometime in like the mid 80s when they started dating.

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Okay.

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Mark was known also for his quiet demeanor and was an easygoing guy who played minor

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league baseball for the Texas Rangers.

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Interesting.

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When I think at this point the Texas Rangers minor league team was in like Oklahoma or

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Missouri, I think he was pretty close to where Pam was.

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When Mark got turned down for the MLB, he would change careers and begin working as

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a carpenter.

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Sometime in June of 1987, Mark and Pam would welcome a little boy into the world, Travis

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Hupp.

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Having Sarah with them as well, Pam, Mark, and their two children would move to Naples,

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Florida in 1989 where they would remain for around 12 years before returning back to O'Fallon,

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Missouri.

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So there's really not a lot known about the time that the family spent in Florida.

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I mean, really nothing I guess right home about.

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But they would return to Missouri in 2001.

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That's interesting because I mean, where's the poop?

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We kind of really haven't seen a lot of poop other than she's the fact that she's the

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fact that she was seemingly boy crazy when she was younger and she tends to pick soft

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spoken individuals to marry.

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But really not a lot of poop.

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Not a lot of poop.

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And she's kind of, I mean, I think she picks, I think.

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I think she picks soft spoken men because she's a little domineering maybe.

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It's easier to deal with men that aren't going to challenge her back.

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But yeah, just two kids, 12 years, I mean, great marriage, you know all this stuff.

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So back in Missouri, Pam would work as an administrator for State Farm and flipped houses

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on the side for a company called H2 Partners LLC.

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Mark would also help with the home flipping and people who knew the Hupps at this time

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would state that they were harmonious partners in both life and business for decades.

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Harmonious, sorry, not harmonious.

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Harmonious, harmonious.

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It's fine.

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But Pam, however, would be the shotcaller of the relationship, if you will, but it didn't

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really seem to bother Mark.

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Again, he was soft spoken, easygoing, pretty polite, and he just kind of let her do her

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thing, you know?

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Yeah, sometimes that works.

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It's like, you know, if like me, I consider myself to be an indecisive person in certain

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things and so is Cliff, but it's like it works out because of things that I'm not indecisive

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about, he is.

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Yeah.

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And vice versa.

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And some people are just comfortable being in relationships where they have guidance

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and direction by their partner and they're fine with it.

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Yeah, definitely.

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So this being the case, Pam would be the one who did most of the communicating with other

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people in the house flipping business.

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She would be the one to like set the appointments and talk, you know, the most when she's there.

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Yeah, she had the more control, right?

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Yeah.

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The control freak of it.

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Right.

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While still being employed at State Farm, Pam would meet and become friends with a co-worker

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by the name of Elizabeth Kaye Myer Feria, who went by the nickname Betsy.

252
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:22,400
Okay.

253
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,400
So this is Betsy, her friend.

254
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,400
Okay, her friend Betsy.

255
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,400
Yes.

256
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,400
Her quote unquote friend Betsy.

257
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,400
Yeah, they're homies.

258
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,400
I mean, they work together.

259
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:29,400
Okay.

260
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,400
They're acquaintances.

261
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,160
When you said that she had befriended somebody, I was anticipating it was going to be a male.

262
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,160
Oh no.

263
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,160
Okay.

264
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:39,840
So Betsy lived in Troy, Missouri with her husband, Russell Scott Feria or Russ.

265
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:40,840
So it's Betsy and Russ.

266
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:41,840
They have nicknames, right?

267
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,840
Cute.

268
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,320
So around the time that Betsy met Pam, Pam also became aware that Betsy and Russ were

269
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,840
living with two daughters that Russ had from a previous marriage.

270
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:51,840
Okay.

271
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:52,840
So there's the four of them.

272
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:53,840
Mm-hmm.

273
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,880
In 2010, Betsy would get a life-changing diagnosis.

274
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,320
She had developed breast cancer.

275
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,320
Oh no.

276
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:06,120
Unfortunately, by October of 2011, Betsy would also learn that her cancer had metastasized

277
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,120
in her liver and had now become terminal.

278
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,120
Oh no.

279
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,000
Oh, that's awful.

280
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,360
During the time that Betsy was struggling with her illness, her and Pam would become

281
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,480
closer as friends as they were spending time together at work and now outside of it.

282
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,840
And she kind of leaned on, you know, Pam, I think they kind of leaned on each other.

283
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:23,840
Yeah.

284
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,960
Well, Pam seems like, you know, kind of the not strong, not necessarily strong headed.

285
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,200
What am I trying to say?

286
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,200
She seems like a person that, again, she's already guiding her husband and all that.

287
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,840
So she seems like a person that's probably very well organized in her thinking maybe

288
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:38,840
as well.

289
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:39,840
Yeah.

290
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,760
She seems like it's easy, especially when you find someone that you have a strong bond

291
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,840
with or connection with to like be able to open up and lean on them a little bit more.

292
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:49,840
Yeah.

293
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,280
She's like the kind of person that can take it, you know, that can take on those other

294
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,920
people's, you know, burdens.

295
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,160
Right.

296
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:02,320
On December 22nd, 2011, it became known that Betsy had changed the sole beneficiary of

297
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:08,840
her $150,000 life insurance policy from Russ to now Pam.

298
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,400
Even though he has two kids.

299
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,400
Yes.

300
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:12,400
Hmm.

301
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,800
Betsy had asked Pam to make sure that the money went to her daughters when she passed

302
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,800
on.

303
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:17,800
I see.

304
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,480
So it seems like Betsy was kind of worried, according to Pam, that her husband might not

305
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,200
use it like fairly and not maybe use it for the kids.

306
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:27,200
Yeah, exactly.

307
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,200
Okay.

308
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,640
However, Pam would later claim that Betsy had actually told her that she wanted to keep

309
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,200
the money for herself and she trusted Pam with it.

310
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,000
So either way, it seems like she doesn't want Russ to have this money.

311
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Okay.

312
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,560
It's either going to be for the daughters or it's going to be for her, but she doesn't

313
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:44,480
want Russ to have it.

314
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:45,480
Yeah.

315
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,480
Which is funny because if she passes away, she can't use it.

316
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,480
You know what I mean?

317
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,360
But yeah, so it didn't really make a lot of sense.

318
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,640
Five days later on December 27th, Betsy went to another chemotherapy treatment at the Alvin

319
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:03,200
J. Seitman Cancer Center in St. Louis and then went to visit her mother.

320
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:08,200
After visiting with her mother, Pam would arrive and drive Betsy home.

321
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,640
Russ had originally been the one who was going to give Betsy a ride home.

322
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,760
However, Pam would unexpectedly show up to give Betsy a ride that night.

323
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,360
She might have just been checking on her, you know, oh, like I see you've been running

324
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:19,360
around.

325
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,360
Yeah.

326
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,360
You know, don't worry.

327
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,360
I'm already in the area.

328
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,360
You know, I'll pick you up.

329
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:24,360
Yeah.

330
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,360
And Betsy does have terminal fucking cancer.

331
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,360
Exactly.

332
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:27,360
She's like, let me go check on my friend.

333
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:28,360
Right.

334
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,440
Pam stated that she dropped Betsy off at home at around 7 p.m.

335
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:38,520
However, at 7 21 p.m., one of Betsy and Russ's daughters would call Betsy and the call would

336
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,920
not be answered.

337
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,480
That evening, Russ stated that he was at a friend's home by the name of Michael Corbin

338
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,600
and the two watched movies from around six to nine p.m.

339
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,600
After the movies were over, Russ said that he and his friend drove to an Arby's in Lake

340
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,720
St. Louis before returning home.

341
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,280
Gotta get them curly fries.

342
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,520
At 9 40 p.m., 9 11 would receive a call.

343
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:08,480
I think County 911, what is the location of your emergency?

344
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,680
Okay ma'am.

345
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,160
Hello?

346
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,160
Hello?

347
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:18,080
Yes, I need you to take a couple deep breaths so I can see what's going on.

348
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,720
What is the address for you need to come?

349
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,480
Okay, what is the telephone number you're calling from in case we get disconnected?

350
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,280
I don't know this number.

351
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,280
I know my cell phone number.

352
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,280
Okay, what is that number?

353
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,280
It's 214-565.

354
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,280
Okay, who am I speaking with?

355
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,280
My name is Russell Ferreira.

356
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,280
Russell, what's going on there?

357
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:50,280
I just got home from a run-down and am on my way to the shelter.

358
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:55,280
She's on the phone with her.

359
00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:00,280
Okay Russell, I need you to calm down honey, okay?

360
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,280
I need you to calm down, take a couple deep breaths.

361
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:09,280
We're going to get somebody on the way there, okay?

362
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,280
What did she do, do you know?

363
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:17,280
She got a knife in her neck and she sped it through her arms.

364
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:24,280
Okay, okay, calm down honey.

365
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:31,280
So yes, obviously Russ is very much in distress.

366
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,280
I mean that's really hard to listen to.

367
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:34,280
Yeah.

368
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,280
Very upset.

369
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,280
If you couldn't understand what he was saying, he essentially said that he came home, found

370
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,280
his wife, and he said, my wife killed herself and the operator's like, how do you know that?

371
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,280
And he said that something like she has a knife in her neck.

372
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,280
And she sliced up her arms is what he had said.

373
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,280
That call is actually much longer than that, but I just thought that that was important

374
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,280
to put that first clip in there.

375
00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:01,280
So Betsy was found on her side on the floor in front of their couch.

376
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,280
She had been stabbed over 55 times.

377
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:10,280
Her wrists were cut to the bone and a serrated kitchen knife was lodged in her neck.

378
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,280
What?

379
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,280
So I know that I think you had said this off mic, but you were like, I don't like it when

380
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,280
you just immediately assumed that she killed herself or whatever without knowing.

381
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,280
And I was like, she was very sick.

382
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,280
And so we don't know, but she might have said within the last couple of weeks before this,

383
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,280
oh, I just want to die.

384
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,280
Maybe things looked like that because she was terminal.

385
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,280
And that might have been his first thought because she may have been struggling with

386
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,280
depression towards the end.

387
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,280
I think that it's every time I'm like, oh, there's the poop.

388
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:47,280
When someone calls and is like, oh, I found someone, they killed themselves or I found

389
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,280
someone, an intruder hurt them or like, it's like, well, you're not a detective and you

390
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,280
just walked in and you're any, any narrative that you're trying to spend, you choose to

391
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280
do it in the first five seconds of 911 call.

392
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,280
I don't think so.

393
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,280
It sounds a little sus.

394
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,280
It sounds a little sus.

395
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,280
It's like, he's my number one suspect right now.

396
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,280
Remember what was all we listened to recently?

397
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,280
It was like immediately like.

398
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:14,280
So it was Alex Cox when he was like, I shot my brother in law with self-defense.

399
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,280
Like, hi, this is Alex Cox, A-L-E-X-C-O-X.

400
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:20,280
I killed my brother in law.

401
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,280
It was self-defense.

402
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:22,280
Whoa.

403
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:23,280
Exactly.

404
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,280
So Russ is your, yeah, your suspect.

405
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,280
Russ is my suspect.

406
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,280
My number one suspect right now.

407
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,280
Also, how do you not understand that someone's been stabbed 55 times?

408
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,280
Yeah, that's, you couldn't kill yourself that way.

409
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,280
I don't think you would get that far.

410
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,280
I don't think that you could kill yourself that way.

411
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,280
Yeah, exactly.

412
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:44,280
Following the 911 call, first responders would arrive in less than 10 minutes.

413
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,280
They concluded that Betsy had been dead for at least an hour or maybe longer.

414
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:49,280
Oh.

415
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,280
While there was a massive amount of blood where Betsy's body was found, there was no

416
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,280
blood evidence in any showers or sinks, suggesting that someone cleaned themselves up.

417
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,280
Cleaned up.

418
00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,280
Okay, okay.

419
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,280
Well, if Russ, if his friend isn't lying, Russell was clearly doing something in that

420
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:05,280
last hour.

421
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,280
He came home, got pissed, chose to kill her, and then called 911 because that would have,

422
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,780
there would be fresh evidence of that, right?

423
00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:13,780
Yeah.

424
00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:16,280
Well, he said he was out of the house until well after nine o'clock.

425
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,280
Right.

426
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,280
However, there is also no blood trails that were found exiting the home.

427
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,280
So it seems like whoever did it is still in the home.

428
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,280
Okay, never mind.

429
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,280
Russ is my number one suspect again.

430
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:34,280
Betsy's death was later reported as being sometime between 7.20 and 9.41 p.m.

431
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,280
Okay.

432
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,780
The following day, investigators would arrest Russell Faria and bring him down to the station

433
00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:41,780
for questioning.

434
00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:44,280
I think he says, he pronounces it furia.

435
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,280
Furia.

436
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,280
Like he was saying it, Faria.

437
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,280
Furia.

438
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,120
First responders would comment that it was quote, ludicrous and quote, that Russ stated

439
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,840
to 911 that his wife had killed herself considering the condition of her body when they arrived

440
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,840
on the scene.

441
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:57,840
Yeah.

442
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,280
After police searched the home, they came across a pair of bloody slippers in Russ's

443
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,240
bedroom closet.

444
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,200
Police also noted that Russ was in an agitated and emotional state when they arrived at his

445
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,280
home and this was very suspicious to them.

446
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,280
Well, I mean, you're going to be agitated.

447
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,280
You're going to be agitated.

448
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,280
You're going to be pissed.

449
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,960
You're going to be a lot of things.

450
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,000
After arriving at the station, investigators would ask Russ if he would be willing to do

451
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,720
a polygraph test to which he obliged.

452
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,560
Russ would ultimately fail the polygraph test, adding to the theory that he was guilty of

453
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:32,920
his life's murder.

454
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,480
What?

455
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,720
Knowing that Pam Hupp was also one of the last people to see Betsy alive, police would

456
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,480
bring her in for questioning as well.

457
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,080
She would state to police that Russ did have a quote, violent temper and quote, that he

458
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,080
was a heavy drinker and that he had recently threatened Betsy when she was considering

459
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,080
leaving him.

460
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,080
Pam said this?

461
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,080
Yes.

462
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,320
She said that Betsy had confided in her.

463
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,200
Pam had also expressed to police that she actually received an email from Betsy a few

464
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,880
days before she died, in which she expressed fears that Russ may harm her.

465
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,240
This email read, quote, Pam, I know we talked about this yesterday, but I feel I really

466
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,600
need you to believe me.

467
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,880
I really do feel that Russ is going to do something to me.

468
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,080
Last night he asked me why I came home instead of staying at my mom's.

469
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,120
I told him I had things to do.

470
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,200
He was very angry with me for being in the house.

471
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,160
I couldn't figure out why.

472
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,880
Then I caught him with my laptop.

473
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,600
He was reading my emails.

474
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,680
When I asked him about it, he said he can do whatever he wants.

475
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,960
He said I won't be around much longer, so what do I care?

476
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,280
He continued to tell me how much money he would make after I die.

477
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,240
He's been talking like this for months.

478
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,880
He wants me to stay at my mom's.

479
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,680
He likes the house to himself.

480
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,600
He tells me it's his house and I'm just a guest.

481
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,000
Right now I stay at my mom's, Linda's, or a friend's for most of the week.

482
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,760
I was home last night and I have to go back on Friday for the weekend.

483
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,440
My mom has a friend staying with her from out of town so I don't have a bed to sleep in.

484
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,520
Last night was the worst.

485
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,040
I fell asleep on the couch while watching TV.

486
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,680
I woke up to Russ holding a pillow over my face.

487
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,960
I didn't know what was going on.

488
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,480
I broke loose and started to scream at him asking what he was doing.

489
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,520
He said that he wanted me to know what dying feels like.

490
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,000
I need to change my life insurance policy out of his name, but I can't let him know that

491
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,080
I've taken him off as beneficiary.

492
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,760
I need your help with this.

493
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,400
I can't give it to my girls because they'll blow it.

494
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,120
Do you think I could put it in your name and you could help my daughters when they need

495
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,120
it?

496
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:28,320
I really need to talk to you about this.

497
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:33,120
I'm so tired from the cancer and I'm so afraid of staying out in Troy alone with Russ.

498
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,840
If something happens to me, would you please show this to the police?"

499
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,840
Jesus.

500
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:37,840
The chills.

501
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,960
Okay, well I was kind of half joking about the Russ thing because clearly Pam's name

502
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,960
is on this episode.

503
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:45,960
Yeah, for sure.

504
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:46,960
But like, what?

505
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,520
Yeah, it's pretty heavy.

506
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,600
It makes sense though because it literally says in the email, like, show this to the

507
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,320
police please, like if something would happen to me.

508
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,840
And so it makes sense why Pam would be showing them that during this interview.

509
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,600
With this newfound evidence on January 4th, 2012, Russ was charged with first degree murder

510
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,920
and armed criminal action with his bail being set at $250,000.

511
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,240
It would be about 320 grand today.

512
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,360
I mean the only evidence they have right now though, well, it's kind of a lot.

513
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,720
It's kind of a lot but it's all circumstantial.

514
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,720
Yeah.

515
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,960
But it's like, is anyone going to corroborate where he was?

516
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,240
I mean 55 times though you would think there would be a blood trail that led outside because

517
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,040
if you stab someone 55 times the likelihood of you cutting, the perpetrator cutting themselves

518
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,040
is very high.

519
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,040
Very high.

520
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,480
So that's interesting to me that they wouldn't find any blood trail leading outside or bloody

521
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,480
well.

522
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,800
To the bathroom or whatever.

523
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,240
But the slippers are in his closet.

524
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,080
So a perpetrator could have done this and then thrown the slippers in the closet and

525
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,440
then gotten away scot-free.

526
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,160
But then there's no trail from the living room to the bedroom where the slippers are

527
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,160
placed.

528
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,160
I don't know, it's very strange.

529
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,240
It would have had to.

530
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,840
But he also failed the polygraph test.

531
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:02,840
Yeah.

532
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,840
Which is inadmissible but it is probable cause.

533
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,280
Yeah, it's sus though.

534
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,280
Super sus.

535
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,360
So Russ is awaiting trial.

536
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:11,600
Okay.

537
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,520
On October 29th, 2013, Pam and her mother Shirley would spend the night together after

538
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,800
Pam drove her mom to the hospital for a visit.

539
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,520
The following day, on October 30th, Pam would drop Shirley off at her apartment and told

540
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,640
the apartment staff, quote, if Shirley does not show up for breakfast to notify the family,

541
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,640
end quote.

542
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,640
What?

543
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,840
Her mom was like 77 at this point so I don't know if she was just worried about her health

544
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,840
or something.

545
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,840
Right.

546
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:42,000
The next day, at around 2.30pm, a housekeeper would come across the dead body of Shirley

547
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,880
Newman beneath the balcony of her apartment.

548
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,920
Beneath the balcony of her apartment?

549
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,720
The balcony railing had been broken, suggesting that Shirley had fallen from her porch.

550
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,600
She was on a, obviously not the bottom floor.

551
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,720
She's a frail old woman though.

552
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,000
How does she break the balcony?

553
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Well, you fall.

554
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,640
I mean, maybe she tripped, you know?

555
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,640
That's true.

556
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,680
She could have like fallen like full force backwards or something into it.

557
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,680
Yeah.

558
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,280
Following the medical examination of the body, it was determined that Shirley had died from

559
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,320
blunt trauma to the chest, resulting from an accidental fall.

560
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,320
Okay.

561
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:24,120
However, in a later autopsy, it was discovered that Shirley had 0.84 micrograms of the drug

562
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,800
zulpedim in her system.

563
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,080
This is over eight times the usual dosage.

564
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,080
And what does it do?

565
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,160
I think it's like a sedative.

566
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Like a sleeping pillar or something.

567
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:41,120
Following the death of her mother, Pam would collect her $10,000 life insurance and split

568
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:46,480
that and the approximately $120,000 in investments with her siblings.

569
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,080
Yeah, she had three siblings.

570
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,960
So when did Betsy die again?

571
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Betsy died in 2012 or 2011, sorry.

572
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,520
Okay.

573
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:58,520
And this is 2017.

574
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,520
Okay.

575
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,520
Yes.

576
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:06,000
A month after Shirley died, police would receive an anonymous tip that Pam, the last person

577
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,440
to see Shirley alive, was the reason behind her death, with her motivation being for the

578
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,440
insurance money.

579
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,240
You know, she's familiar with insurance.

580
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,480
In the tip was a video that was taken earlier that same year of Pam.

581
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,200
This video was taken during the investigation of Betsy Faria's death when police were questioning

582
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,520
Pam, like I talked about a second ago.

583
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,520
Here it is.

584
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,640
Were we going to watch the video?

585
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,000
Well, we're not going to watch it.

586
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000
We're going to listen to it.

587
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,000
We're going to listen to it.

588
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:35,920
Okay.

589
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,680
Just for clarification, this is, the video is just video footage from the interrogation

590
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,920
of Pam in the previous years about Betsy's death.

591
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:44,920
I see.

592
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,920
So it's just like an interview.

593
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:46,920
Okay.

594
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,400
But Pam does mention something in this interview that correlates to this new crime.

595
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,920
But it's like in an interview room.

596
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,920
Yes.

597
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:52,920
Okay.

598
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:53,920
I thought it was like a visual thing.

599
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,920
And I was like, this is a radio show.

600
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,920
No one can see that.

601
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:58,920
Okay.

602
00:26:58,920 --> 00:26:59,920
Here we go.

603
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:06,920
Two months ago, my mom got an accident and we had to put her in a home.

604
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,920
I really hate to say it, wanted money.

605
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,920
My mom's worth a half a million that I get when she dies.

606
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,920
My mom is a dementia and doesn't have to time know who we are.

607
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,920
Right.

608
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,920
Has been living alone in a condo.

609
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,920
And I know that sounds really morbid and stuff like that, but I am a life insurance person.

610
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:29,920
But if I really wanted money, there was an easier way than trying to combat somebody

611
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,920
that's physically stronger than me.

612
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,920
I'm just saying.

613
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,920
I'm sorry.

614
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,920
Easier?

615
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,920
Yeah.

616
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920
She said the word easier.

617
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,920
There's an easier way for me to get money.

618
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:42,920
Yeah.

619
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:49,080
And the fact that she pointed out that her own mother lives alone, like, and she knows exactly

620
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,000
how much she's worth.

621
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000
She's done the research.

622
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,000
She's like, I'm just saying, like, if I really wanted money, like, with this, this is before,

623
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,000
again, keep in mind, this is before Shirley is dead.

624
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,000
So she's like, if I really needed money, like, I would just kill my mom and then now her

625
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
mom turns up dead.

626
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
It's like, that's weird.

627
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Yeah.

628
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,000
I've heard that before, but in the context of if I was really going to cheat on you,

629
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000
do you think I would do it with that person?

630
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Yeah.

631
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000
And it turns out to be that person.

632
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Yeah, right.

633
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
And that's just a manipulation tactic.

634
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,000
It's almost, if I'm thinking correctly, I'm pretty sure that's also a narcissistic

635
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,000
trait.

636
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,000
Yeah.

637
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Is being, is the way that you're, or gaslighting too, is, well, let me just make it sound ridiculous.

638
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Therefore, you're, well, yeah, I guess she would, right?

639
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
That does make sense that she would want to kill her own mom first.

640
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Exactly.

641
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,000
And not her friend.

642
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Yeah, no, she's dumb.

643
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Yeah, because of the ridiculousness of it.

644
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000
It's don't look over here.

645
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,000
Look over here.

646
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Yeah.

647
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Oh, this is so stupid.

648
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,000
This is just beneath me.

649
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,500
So following this interview surfacing, police would reopen the investigation on the death

650
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:54,500
of Shirley.

651
00:28:54,500 --> 00:29:00,080
However, after interviewing the housekeeper who found her and Pam's brother Michael,

652
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,080
police were able to understand that Shirley was quote, unsteady, meaning she didn't have

653
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,080
great balance.

654
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,080
Right.

655
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,000
This combined with the drugs that she was prescribed, although there was more in her

656
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,000
system, made police conclude that Shirley's death was indeed an accident.

657
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, I understand.

658
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,680
I mean, I understand that it's prescribed to her.

659
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:27,280
And again, it's one of those probability things like did she and her dementia take too much?

660
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,000
Or was it something that was prescribed to her accidentally more than once or something

661
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,000
like that?

662
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,440
Yeah, especially dementia patients, like they can definitely double take medication, even

663
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,000
if a drip will take it, you know?

664
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,000
Yeah.

665
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:46,000
When I think about the latest trends, I think Spencer's.

666
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,040
Spencer's has been a mall must visit since its first store opened in 1963.

667
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,280
From then, Spencer's has always stocked the most unique and buzzworthy products, including

668
00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,240
but not limited to their wide range of lava lamps, their body jewelry cases, and of course,

669
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,200
their infamous wallet wall.

670
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,920
And don't forget about their 18 and up section dedicated to sexual health.

671
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,000
Did I mention their humanitarian work?

672
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,200
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673
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rights as well as other nonprofits such as cancer.

674
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,480
With over 670 locations in the US, Spencer's is the hottest place for trends even after

675
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,240
75 years.

676
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,560
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677
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:34,000
Spencer's, life's a party and we're making it fun.

678
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,040
They actually, police would actually never interview Pam regarding her mom's death.

679
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,040
What?

680
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,240
They didn't feel like they needed to.

681
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,880
You think that you would though?

682
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,840
Like there's enough, I would think.

683
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,040
But again, all circumstantial.

684
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,960
She could have just been saying that, you know?

685
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:56,080
So on November 18th, 2013, back to Russ, he would attend his trial for the death of Betsy.

686
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,440
His defense attorney, Joel Schwartz, would bring a big case, including testimonies from

687
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,640
four friends Russ was with on the night of the murder, cell phone records being located

688
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,640
20 miles away from the murder scene, and evidence of purchases at different stores and other

689
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,160
locations around the same time of death.

690
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,360
Schwartz would state that all of these things did not allow a timeline for Russ to have

691
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,320
committed the murder.

692
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,520
On top of this, the defense mentioned that there were bloody slippers in the closet, but

693
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,840
there were no traces of blood on Russ's body or his clothing.

694
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,840
At all?

695
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:28,840
At all.

696
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Okay.

697
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,080
So they're like, how could he have not had blood on him?

698
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,640
Yeah, and they just found the slippers half-hazardly like thrown in the closet, but yet where

699
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,240
the rest of his bloody clothes exactly.

700
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,960
He changed them, he took a shower, he threw it down the street, you know, whatever, they

701
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:42,960
could say anything.

702
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,360
Yeah, he threw the bloody clothes somewhere else, but chose to keep the slippers.

703
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,360
They were his favorite slippers.

704
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,320
Yeah, he didn't want to get rid of them.

705
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,040
Prosecuting attorney Leah Aske would state that Russ's friends were providing a false

706
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:59,400
alibi for him and even conspired with him to commit the murder, including holding his

707
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,800
phone for him and using his card to make purchases elsewhere.

708
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,880
I don't care who you are, if all four of those people...

709
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,040
Just gotta be at least one person that would be like, didn't get the story straight, doesn't

710
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:19,200
feel comfy about it, and especially if they're under threat of conspiring with them.

711
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,440
I mean, they're not gonna take these guys to court for that, because there's no evidence

712
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:23,440
for that.

713
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,440
It's a stretch.

714
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:25,440
Yeah.

715
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,400
Leah would refer to this as a quote, ultimate role play and quote,

716
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,560
Joel Schwartz submitted an argument that would suggest a different perpetrator of the

717
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,400
crime, including phone records, but Judge Christina Minnemeier refused to allow him to bring this

718
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,000
new suggested perpetrator to light.

719
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,720
During the trial, Detective Mike Merkel had reported that a crime scene camera had broken,

720
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,840
and because of this, the photos were unable to be pulled of a possible suspect of the

721
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:52,840
crime.

722
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:53,920
Wait, what?

723
00:32:53,920 --> 00:33:00,120
There was like a camera that was in the area of the crime that essentially allegedly picked

724
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680
up someone fleeing or whatever.

725
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,400
The camera was broken so they couldn't pull anything off of it.

726
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,400
I see.

727
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,400
So they didn't put that into court.

728
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,120
Like they didn't show like pictures of anyone.

729
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,400
They don't have like, yeah.

730
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,000
These pictures would later be surfaced, but not during this.

731
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,840
On November 21st, 2013, just a few days into the trial, Russ Feria would be convicted on

732
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,000
both counts, and a month later, he would be sentenced to life in prison plus 30 years without

733
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,680
the possibility of parole.

734
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,680
Damn.

735
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:34,000
This was subsequently sent to the Jefferson City Correctional Center, although a key component

736
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,200
of the prosecution's case was that all four of Russ's friends helped him pull this murder

737
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,200
off.

738
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,560
None of them were ever charged with anything.

739
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,040
I was gonna say, like you threatened that, but like, if it's like we would be in custody

740
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,680
if you thought that was the truth.

741
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,680
Exactly.

742
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,920
In fact, the friends were not even fully aware that Aske had implicated them in her closing

743
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,400
argument until they heard through media.

744
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,560
Ew.

745
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,160
So they had no idea that they were even being like essentially put on trial for this.

746
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,560
Yeah, just ruin these four men's lives.

747
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Thanks.

748
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,800
The Feria's daughters and the rest of the family were relieved when Russ got his sentence.

749
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:12,280
And in an interview given following the sentence, his sister Julie had made unheard claims.

750
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,240
She stated that Russ had been angered by the removal of his name from a separate insurance

751
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:21,640
policy and that he had on one occasion held a pillow on Betsy's face and stated, quote,

752
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,280
this is what it feels like to die, end quote.

753
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,280
What?

754
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,200
In response, Schwartz said that this sounded very similar to the story that Pam shared

755
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,200
with police, but no one really thought anything of it.

756
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,920
It was almost like she was repeating what she had heard from maybe from Pam.

757
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:37,920
Yeah.

758
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,840
An initial motion for a new trial was requested on Russ's behalf, but it would be rejected

759
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,400
by Judge Christina Minnimer in December of 2013.

760
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:55,040
The next month in January of 2014, the St. Louis Post-Ditchpatch newspaper and KTVI

761
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,800
would partner up and review the case.

762
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,600
So just media sources.

763
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,560
Also in January of 2014, Chris Hayes, the same man who interviewed Pam the previous

764
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,280
year, decided to go to Pam's home and question her about the death of her mother.

765
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,760
So this is the same guy that interviewed that we heard the interview on.

766
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,760
Here's the transcript.

767
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:14,760
Do you want to be Chris?

768
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,240
I'll be Chris.

769
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,160
How did your mom die?

770
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,160
How did my mom die?

771
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,760
Oh, by the way, I'm Pam.

772
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,920
Yeah.

773
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:25,920
What do you mean?

774
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,960
Well, what happened?

775
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,560
She died.

776
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,880
Like the people in the home say she committed suicide, so I'm not quite sure what's going

777
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:34,880
on.

778
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:35,880
Really?

779
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,120
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

780
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,600
I mean, just jumped?

781
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,800
I don't know because we don't know what's going on.

782
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,300
So.

783
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:43,920
Was she suicidal?

784
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,920
I don't think so.

785
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:45,920
I don't know.

786
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,600
How do you know with an Alzheimer's patient?

787
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,320
And that's essentially the exchange.

788
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,520
How do you know with an Alzheimer's patient if they're suicidal?

789
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:55,520
Yeah.

790
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,600
They don't know what's going on half the time.

791
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,600
Yeah.

792
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,440
But if I had Alzheimer's, I'd probably be kind of suicidal if I was told that I had

793
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:03,440
Alzheimer's.

794
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,440
Oh, no.

795
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:05,440
I'd be in La La Land, hopefully.

796
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,840
It sucks for everyone else around you, but it's like, I mean, you know.

797
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,000
So yeah, that was the exchange.

798
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,040
She actually went to her house and they sit on the porch for about 30 minutes talking.

799
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,960
So she chatted with him for a little while.

800
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,480
In February, the Post-Dispatch reported that Pam Hub had kept the $150,000 life insurance

801
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,640
policy of Betsy's rather than giving it to her daughters, like she asked.

802
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,560
They also mentioned that Pam had contradicted herself during police interviews, one in which

803
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,800
she claimed that she did not enter the Faria House after driving Betsy home, but later

804
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,880
stated that she revisited the house twice that night.

805
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:49,480
On top of this, the 911 operator who had taken Russ's call truly believed he was in distress.

806
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,480
The article that the Post-Dispatch newspaper released alleged that the prosecutor in the

807
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,440
case, Leah Aske, was in a relationship with the captain of the investigators for the Lincoln

808
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,560
County Sheriff's Office, a man called Mike Lang.

809
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:02,880
Oh my gosh.

810
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,120
Is this habeas corpus?

811
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Tell me.

812
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,920
Not only did they accuse the prosecutor of being in this relationship, but also with

813
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,200
one of the investigating officers of the case and a prosecution witness.

814
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,200
What?

815
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,160
I don't know if that was ever confirmed.

816
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,920
That's a big huge no-no, though.

817
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,080
That's like conflict of interest for sure.

818
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Yeah.

819
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,080
Oh my God.

820
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,000
Oh, well all of this was going on.

821
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,720
Pam and Mark were living their best lives.

822
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:32,760
They would use H2 partners for their real estate needs, but sometime in 2014, Pam would

823
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,080
start her own firm, H2 Partners Building Solutions, enlisted herself as the president.

824
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,080
And the president.

825
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,080
Maybe the president.

826
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,080
And the president.

827
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,560
This new home would also double as their business address.

828
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,920
On the other end, Russ's attorney, Joel Schwartz, would appeal the conviction of Russ.

829
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,840
In February of 2015, the Missouri Court of Appeals sent the case to the 45th Circuit Court

830
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,640
for a hearing on a retrial.

831
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,760
Judge Minimier had actually removed herself from the case at this point, so a Judge Steve

832
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,400
Omer would be the judge to grant a motion for a new bench trial based on the new evidence

833
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,760
that had emerged.

834
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,360
Russell Feria would be released on bond to await this new trial.

835
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,240
During the retrial, Joel Schwartz was allowed to introduce evidence that implicated Pam

836
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:20,080
Hupp as the perpetrator.

837
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:25,000
CSI agent Amy Butner had examined the crime scene and testified during this hearing that

838
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,600
she believes that the slippers found in Russ's closet had not been bloodied by stepping in

839
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,600
blood.

840
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,000
It was almost like it was like flung on there.

841
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,000
What?

842
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,160
Or whatever, like rolled.

843
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,400
But it wasn't like a splash that it would happen if you stepped in blood and it splashed

844
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,400
up.

845
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,400
Yeah.

846
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,240
Or like from like the, what do they call that?

847
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:46,240
Like the spatter from-

848
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,160
Yeah.

849
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,400
The spatter of the crime.

850
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,320
Police officers would also disclose in the trial that Pam, who was not called to testify,

851
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,640
had claimed in recent interviews that her and Betsy had been in a sexual relationship.

852
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,640
I, okay.

853
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:00,640
What?

854
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:01,640
I called it.

855
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,160
I said, I said Betsy are quote unquote friend.

856
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,160
They're just friends.

857
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,160
Well, that's also, again, hearsay.

858
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,840
It wasn't ever really confirmed.

859
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,880
Pam had also told investigators that she remembered seeing Russ and another man in a car parked

860
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,440
on a side street outside the Feria house as she drove Betsy home.

861
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,680
Oh, you just forgot that giant detail.

862
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,240
I forgot that giant detail.

863
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:25,640
You know, the night that my best friend died.

864
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,640
No, for real.

865
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:27,640
Yeah.

866
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:28,880
And her husband was convicted of her murder.

867
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Right.

868
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,880
Oh my gosh.

869
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,880
She was like, I was actually there.

870
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:32,880
I saw him do it.

871
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:33,880
I saw him do it.

872
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,880
But like I didn't actually see, I mean like, you know what I mean?

873
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,880
Like I was just there.

874
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,880
I saw him through the window.

875
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:37,880
It was totally him though.

876
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:38,880
Like it absolutely was.

877
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,600
As a matter of fact, it was probably his friend.

878
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,680
I don't know.

879
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,360
In May of 2015, prosecutor Leah Aske would interview Pam.

880
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,800
They would discuss the life insurance money and how Pam promised to give the money to

881
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,600
Betsy's daughters.

882
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,680
They talked about how people kept bringing this up to Pam.

883
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,080
So we're going to listen to another short audio clip of this interview.

884
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,080
Okay.

885
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:06,280
The more people kept telling me to do it, the more I didn't want to do it.

886
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,280
I didn't.

887
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,280
Right.

888
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,280
I was really pissing me off.

889
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,000
I'm getting bullied.

890
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,000
You're getting bullied?

891
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Yeah.

892
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,320
The prosecutor was like, oh, you were getting bullied.

893
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,320
Yeah.

894
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,200
It might be one of those interviewing tactics where you're trying to like be on someone's

895
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,000
side or between like you're on their side.

896
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,000
Yeah.

897
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,000
For sure.

898
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,720
But it makes me think of like what I'm on my way to go do the dishes and someone's like,

899
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:29,720
hey, can you do the dishes?

900
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:31,000
And I'm like, fuck you know, I don't want to do them.

901
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,520
But you're talking about giving people their daughter or their mother's life insurance.

902
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,520
Yeah.

903
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:37,520
That's what the same thing.

904
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:38,520
Exactly.

905
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,520
She's like, people just kept begging me about it.

906
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:40,520
So I just didn't want to do it.

907
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,840
I just like made the more they asked the less I wanted to do it.

908
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:44,840
I don't know.

909
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:45,840
I can't explain it.

910
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:52,720
Just, you know, you know, and yeah, you know, people ask you to do the dishes.

911
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:57,400
As the women continue their conversation, the topic shifts to Pam's mother.

912
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,400
Wow.

913
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:18,520
Oh, poor me.

914
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,080
Everyone's pointing the finger at me.

915
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,080
Yeah.

916
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,080
Let's gender it real quick.

917
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,080
Right.

918
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,040
Also, again, she's doing that thing.

919
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,720
Everybody in the world thinks I did this.

920
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:30,360
Every single person.

921
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,840
First of all, you're not that important.

922
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:32,840
Not.

923
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,240
Second of all, again, she does that thing.

924
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:40,000
It was like, I took this 210-pound woman and I threw her through this railing.

925
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,120
Look at how ridiculous that is.

926
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,120
Oh, really?

927
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,080
I mean, it's not that ridiculous.

928
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,440
She phrases it in a way.

929
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,320
You know who was like that too was that Dan Wozniak.

930
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,320
He was like that too.

931
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:52,320
Yeah.

932
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,320
Everybody just thinks I just did this.

933
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,320
I just killed this girl for what?

934
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,520
I don't even know who she is.

935
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:05,120
Just to credit those two videos, I forgot to do the 911 call, but that was from 911

936
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:06,960
True Crime Tapes on YouTube.

937
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,240
And then the last two clips or the last three clips you heard were all from the same video

938
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:12,600
posted by Chris Hayes, the investigator.

939
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,600
The investigator?

940
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,600
Yeah.

941
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,600
And that's also on YouTube.

942
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,680
So yeah, like Leah comes over to question her.

943
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,800
They're talking about, you know, the life insurance money.

944
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,120
They're talking about Betsy, right?

945
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,800
And then all of a sudden, Shirley gets brought up and Pam's like, oh, she does this big display.

946
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,480
And Leah never comments on what she says.

947
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,360
Doesn't say anything back to her about it.

948
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,520
Doesn't question why it sounds like she's trying to defend herself all over again.

949
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,120
Why do you feel the need to bring that up?

950
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,120
You know, whatever.

951
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,360
It's already been ruled an accident.

952
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:45,360
Nothing.

953
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,480
She could have just been like, well, tell me about that again.

954
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,920
And any indiscrepancies that she would have had from a past interview could have been

955
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:52,920
held against her.

956
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,400
But she chose not to do that.

957
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:56,720
Exactly.

958
00:42:56,720 --> 00:43:02,520
On November 7th, 2015, Russ's conviction was overturned and he was released from prison

959
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,160
after having served almost four years.

960
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,160
Four years?

961
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,160
Yes.

962
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,640
In 2016, Joel Schwartz would file a bar complaint against Leah Aske.

963
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:18,320
And this would eventually be dismissed by the office of the chief disciplinary counsel.

964
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,760
In July of 2016, Russ would file a civil rights lawsuit against Leah Aske and three deputy

965
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:29,640
sheriffs on the grounds that they had, quote, fabricated evidence, ignored exonerating evidence

966
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,040
and failed to investigate the other obvious suspect.

967
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Let's go, Russell.

968
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:34,720
Let's go.

969
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:38,760
The following month, Aske and the sheriff's office issued a press release stating that

970
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,800
they were cooperating with the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri

971
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,280
in a review of the case.

972
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,080
Leah's like, I did everything in my power.

973
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,280
He does the same thing.

974
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,040
Around this same time, Pam was catching wind of Russ's exoneration and police having a

975
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,760
new suspect in the case.

976
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,200
On top of this, Dateline had already aired several specials on Betsy's case, making

977
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,320
it more well known around town.

978
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,280
After Russ filed his civil suit, Pam came up with the plan.

979
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,560
She would approach several people and pose as a Dateline producer.

980
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,400
She would offer each person $1,000 to do a reenactment of a 911 call.

981
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,400
I don't know.

982
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,800
Maybe it was Russ's.

983
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,200
A few people would decline the offer after not seeing a camera crew or any type of employment

984
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,200
ID with Pam.

985
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,120
I'm just going to memorize it.

986
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:37,800
Pam was able to get someone to help her, a 33-year-old man by the name of Lewis Gumpenberger.

987
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:38,800
Gumpenbeger.

988
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,800
Gumpenbeger.

989
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,320
Yes, exactly.

990
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:49,560
Lewis was noted as having mental and physical injuries that were the result of a car accident,

991
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,240
and he agreed to go with Pam to help her.

992
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:58,200
According to Pam, upon approaching Lewis, he forced his way into her car, and she was

993
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,040
able to get him out of the vehicle and drive off.

994
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,040
What?

995
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,760
However, he would follow her home and try to assault her.

996
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,520
Pam stated that once she realized that Lewis was attempting to assault her, she just had

997
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,200
to shoot him in self-defense.

998
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,200
What?

999
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:18,360
A note was found on Lewis' person suggesting that Russ had paid him to kill Pam after first

1000
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,480
forcing her to go to the ATM to withdraw the life insurance money.

1001
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:28,600
The note stated, quote, kidnap Hup, get Russ's money from Hup at her bank, and kill Hup,

1002
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,600
end quote.

1003
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:30,600
Signed Pam.

1004
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:31,600
I mean, I'm sorry.

1005
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,600
Signed Russell.

1006
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:33,600
Literally.

1007
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,320
Like she just crossed her own name out.

1008
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,320
Oh my God.

1009
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:38,320
This woman.

1010
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,320
I know.

1011
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,320
She's lawless.

1012
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,960
$100 was also found on Lewis' person.

1013
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:48,400
Pam had called 911 three times during the time that she was with Lewis.

1014
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:56,200
The first two were to report a burglary, and on the third call dispatchers stopped to listen.

1015
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,640
They heard several seconds of silence before shots were fired.

1016
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,440
Lewis' body was found inside the Hup home, where the piece of carpet, like loose carpet,

1017
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,680
shoved under his body, almost to prevent him from bleeding on the floor.

1018
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,680
Bleeding on the carpet?

1019
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,680
Yeah.

1020
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,960
Houses are nasty when people die in them, according to the Saudi family.

1021
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:14,960
Seriously.

1022
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:20,360
Along with this, the $100 bills found on his person had the same serial numbers as others

1023
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,880
found in Pam's room.

1024
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,760
So it's like she grabbed them from her room and shoved them in his pocket.

1025
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,680
Sorry, it's not funny.

1026
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,480
Oh my gosh, this woman.

1027
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,480
I know.

1028
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,480
It's like Dalulu.

1029
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,840
Yeah, laughing at the ridiculousness of it, not the seriousness of it.

1030
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,160
It was clear from the crime scene that Lewis had not been in the bedroom, so he couldn't

1031
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,680
have taken him himself.

1032
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,280
Since Pam had placed two 911 calls prior to the shooting to report a burglary, the third

1033
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,240
one was actually recorded by dispatchers.

1034
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:57,760
Immediately after the shooting, Pam voluntarily went to the O'Fallon Police Department.

1035
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,160
While sitting down with police, Pam would immediately state, quote, is this going to

1036
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,400
be filmed because I always appear on the news with Chris Hayes, end quote.

1037
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,800
Oh my, the narcissism of this woman.

1038
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,680
She would go on to blame Chris Hayes for attracting threatening people to her.

1039
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,320
She's like, I'm going to sue his ass too.

1040
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,760
I'm going to sue him because this psycho went and followed me home and tried to-

1041
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,760
If I wasn't on the news.

1042
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,160
If I wasn't on the news, it's that guy's fault that this guy's dead now.

1043
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,080
I think he did it himself.

1044
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,080
Just afraid me.

1045
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,080
So awful.

1046
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,720
And it's so delusional, seriously.

1047
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:43,560
Pam would claim that Louis Goombinbega had jumped out of a car, which was being driven

1048
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:48,400
by another person, and brandished a knife while she sat in her car in her driveway.

1049
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:49,400
So now it's a news story.

1050
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,760
Yeah, he just tucked and rolled real quick, and then he hops up and goes, and then he's

1051
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:54,760
got a knife.

1052
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,320
Exactly.

1053
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:01,080
She said that Louis demanded she drive to a bank to receive, quote, Russ's money, end

1054
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,520
quote.

1055
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,960
She said that she then knocked the knife out of Louis's hand with a quote, karate chop.

1056
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:07,960
And-

1057
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:08,960
No, she didn't.

1058
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:09,960
And then she ran inside.

1059
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:15,840
She's like, I took 27 years with Muay Thai, I know.

1060
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:16,840
That's really so ridiculous.

1061
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:24,240
When has such a karate chop ever been overpowered with-

1062
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:25,240
Yeah!

1063
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:26,240
Yeah.

1064
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:27,240
Yeah!

1065
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,240
And the guy's like, no, my knife!

1066
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,640
They're a table!

1067
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,120
It's broken!

1068
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,760
Okay, this is terrible.

1069
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,880
After she entered the house, she claimed that Louis was following her inside, causing her

1070
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,360
to shoot him in self-defense.

1071
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,120
Okay, but yeah.

1072
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,160
So he was outside, she was in her driveway?

1073
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,240
Yeah, she said.

1074
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:57,000
And then he pulls up, somebody else is driving, he hops out with a knife, she karate chops

1075
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,400
him, knife gone.

1076
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,400
She runs inside.

1077
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:05,200
He follows, but she's in the living room, hopefully, maybe.

1078
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,480
And he books it to her room to grab a few hundred bucks and put it in his pocket, then

1079
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,360
comes out and instigates this again.

1080
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:15,360
Exactly.

1081
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:16,360
And then she shoots him.

1082
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,080
It doesn't make any sense, because again, investigators found out that he was never

1083
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,080
in the bedroom.

1084
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,080
Yeah.

1085
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,400
And if you're really trying to shoot someone in self-defense, you have every right to shoot

1086
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,120
someone if they enter your home without your permission.

1087
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,720
But I mean, I would assume it would be as soon as he crossed the threshold into her home.

1088
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,320
Oh, I'm sorry, he grabbed the money, he came back out into the living room, and then he

1089
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,240
laid on the carpet that she had placed there.

1090
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,120
And then she felt threatened enough to shoot him.

1091
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:40,120
Exactly.

1092
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,120
Interesting.

1093
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,200
After investigating the claims, St. Charles County prosecuting attorney and the O'Fallon

1094
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:50,840
chief of police came to the conclusion that Pam had lured Louis into her home, presenting

1095
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,440
herself as Kathy, a producer for Dateline.

1096
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,440
My name's Kathy.

1097
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,440
Yeah, exactly.

1098
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,240
And she's going around telling people that she's a Dateline person.

1099
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:01,960
Yeah, like you're clearly trying to do something.

1100
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,760
Pam was then believed to have offered Louis money to reenact a 911 call, then shot him

1101
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,600
in order to implicate Russ in an attempt on her life.

1102
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,800
So she wanted it to look like, again, Russ had sent this guy over and she had to shoot

1103
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:15,800
him.

1104
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,200
Yeah, now that he's out of prison, that looks bad for her because police are breathing down

1105
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,800
her neck for the murder of Betsy.

1106
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,800
Exactly.

1107
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,320
So he needs to go back to jail somehow or prison.

1108
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,000
And this was the only way she could figure out how to do that, I guess.

1109
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Exactly.

1110
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,360
Afterwards, she would plant the knife, note, and money on Louis' body.

1111
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:42,160
Several pieces of evidence were identified in this case pointing towards Pam as the perpetrator.

1112
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,040
Family members of Louis' stated that due to his physical and mental disabilities, it

1113
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:51,440
would have actually prevented him from carrying out such an act as Pam was describing.

1114
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,680
On August 23rd, 2016, Pam Hupp was charged with first degree murder and armed criminal

1115
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,680
action.

1116
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,560
Upon being arrested, police would bring Pam into the station.

1117
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,880
They would bring in some paperwork and have her sign some documents and then exit the

1118
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:05,880
room.

1119
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,720
However, officers would leave behind a ballpoint pen.

1120
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:14,800
Pam, well aware that she was being recorded, can be seen feeling both sides of her neck

1121
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,280
multiple times.

1122
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,120
Following this, she looks around casually, before placing her hand over the pen and moving

1123
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:26,760
her water bottle in front of it, obstructing its view from the camera.

1124
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,400
She would slowly move the pen off the table and place it in the back of her pants, before

1125
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,360
feeling her neck with her hands again.

1126
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,240
The officers would return to the room and pass Pam off to a female officer that was

1127
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:42,440
to escort her to the restroom.

1128
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,040
Shortly after exiting the view of the camera, officers began shouting, quote, we need a

1129
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:53,640
medic, Pam, Pam, Pam, Pam, talk to me, end quote.

1130
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,240
Pam had used the pen to self inflict dozens of stab wounds to both side of her neck and

1131
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:00,440
both of her wrists.

1132
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,840
There are graphic photos online if you search this just to let everyone know.

1133
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,440
Like it was too many to count, like dozens.

1134
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:14,720
St. Charles County Assistant Prosecutor, Phil, I think it's Grown Wedge, described the act

1135
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,200
as quote, consciousness of guilt, end quote.

1136
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,320
How do you do that to yourself that many times?

1137
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,320
That many times.

1138
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:23,320
Like you think that your brain would tell you to stop.

1139
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,840
Like you have that desperate though.

1140
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,840
Pam's bail would be set at $2 million.

1141
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,840
Wait, she survived?

1142
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,840
Yes.

1143
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:32,840
Oh, Jesus.

1144
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,120
Oh no, she was, yeah, she was injured, but she was alive.

1145
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,640
Yes.

1146
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,760
After Pam was charged with this murder, the investigation to Shirley Newman's death was

1147
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,320
reopened.

1148
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:49,160
My goal, Pam's brother, would reiterate that he believed Shirley's death was accidental.

1149
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:53,200
David Matthew Levy attempted to get a subpoena for the location of Pam's cell phone at the

1150
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,120
time of her mother's death, but was unsuccessful.

1151
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,080
Detective Levy also attempted to organize forensic tests on the balcony railing, but

1152
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,600
he could not get anyone to agree to this either.

1153
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:09,160
There was only just a very big shoe print on the side of that railing.

1154
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,120
A retired homicide detective would suggest around this time that one of the bars at

1155
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,880
Shirley's apartment looked quote, kicked out, end quote.

1156
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,880
Like you just said.

1157
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:23,160
After the interviews with Chris Hayes, he would receive an anonymous letter stating,

1158
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,680
quote, dear sirs, I think it's getting a little silly that you keep accusing someone

1159
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,200
of killing their parent when it's not true, end quote.

1160
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,640
Just like, okay, okay, Pam, Pam, just go ahead and tell us.

1161
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,640
It's just a variety of slips, sorry.

1162
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,960
Don't be dramatic.

1163
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,880
But seriously, like, I don't know who, we don't know who sent the letter, but someone's

1164
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:44,880
like, it's Pam.

1165
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,280
Hey, stepped in looking into the death of someone, the mom aside of someone.

1166
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,280
Just stopped looking.

1167
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,280
Signed Pam.

1168
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:51,280
Yeah.

1169
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,280
And then just crosses it out again.

1170
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,280
A rust.

1171
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,440
She's really bad at writing letters.

1172
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:02,280
On December 16th, 2016, a grand jury indicted Pam on the charges of the murder of Lewis.

1173
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:08,440
On January 31st, 2017, Pam would appear in court and pleaded not guilty.

1174
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:13,400
Also in January of 2017, Judge Minemeyer was suspended by the Supreme Court of Missouri

1175
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,080
for misconduct unrelated to the Feria case.

1176
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,320
Which so it's like, hilarious.

1177
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,760
In March of 2017, prosecutors announced that they would seek the death penalty in the Lewis

1178
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,320
Grumpenberger case due to the apparently arbitrary choice of Lewis as the victim.

1179
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Yeah, absolutely.

1180
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,840
Because he clearly, the fact that she's like, he chased me inside.

1181
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,960
Well, if he's has severe mental and physical disabilities, that's probably not likely.

1182
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,720
Yeah, it's probably could have just shut the door.

1183
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:45,920
The trial would go dormant for nearly a year, just awaiting sentencing.

1184
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,960
In May of 2018, 11th Circuit Court Judge John Cunningham ruled that prosecutors could not

1185
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,960
present evidence in the Lewis case relating to the death of Shirley Newman.

1186
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,840
So they weren't going to bring up anything about Shirley during the trial.

1187
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,800
Yeah, separate instances.

1188
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:06,520
In the following month, however, Judge Cunningham ruled that prosecutors could present evidence

1189
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,160
relating to the killing of Betsy Feria.

1190
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:15,640
In August of 2018, Pam's trial was officially set for June of 2019.

1191
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:21,000
Also in August of 2018, both Judge Minnemeyer and Leah Aske were voted out of office due

1192
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,040
to the mishandling of the murder case and trial of Betsy Feria.

1193
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,040
Yeah.

1194
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:30,360
And you were having an affair.

1195
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:35,200
With every person that participated in Russ's trial.

1196
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,520
The decision to originally not investigate Pam was widely criticized, and a former employee

1197
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,680
of the prosecutor's office would state about this quote, there were several of us that

1198
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,840
kept thinking, why are we not pursuing Pam Hupp?

1199
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,600
They were just locked down on Russ.

1200
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,000
And quote, they got the blinders on, you know, yeah.

1201
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:59,040
And June 2019, Pam Hupp would enter an Alfred plea to the murder of Lewis, waving her right

1202
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:00,680
to a jury trial.

1203
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,240
If you guys aren't familiar with that and Alfred is you're not pleading guilty, but

1204
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,880
you're not pleading not guilty, you're just kind of like neutral.

1205
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,480
It's not necessarily a no contest, like that would be a no contest.

1206
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,240
It's that you're admitting that we're acknowledging the fact that there is evidence that could

1207
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,120
convict you of that crime.

1208
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,080
So instead of going through the process, you're like, yeah, right.

1209
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,080
You kind of got me.

1210
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,200
Yeah, I'm not going to admit it.

1211
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,200
True.

1212
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,680
As a condition of her plea, Pam did not face the death penalty.

1213
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,520
During the trial, Lincoln County prosecuting attorney Mike Wood announced that he would

1214
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,200
be reopening the Betsy Ferriero homicide investigation.

1215
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,480
Pam Hupp would be sentenced to life in prison without parole in August of 2019 for the murder

1216
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:43,480
of Lewis.

1217
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,960
And a phone call to her husband, Mark, because they're still married.

1218
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:47,960
Oh, my God.

1219
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:48,960
I don't want to.

1220
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,040
I forget about Mark this whole time.

1221
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,960
Pam stated that she pleaded guilty so her family would not have to quote, witness an

1222
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,600
ugly trial and quote.

1223
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:01,760
It just wouldn't be a deal that narcissism like, well, I just put it guilty because it

1224
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:02,760
was easier for everyone.

1225
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,840
I did the heroic thing by not having a message.

1226
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,520
It would just take too much time and effort on my part to be there.

1227
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,320
So yeah, I forgot about Mark.

1228
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,280
Yeah, I want to put you guys through that.

1229
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,520
Is he all like, they're like, hey, where's all this money going?

1230
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,160
He's like, we don't talk about finances.

1231
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:19,720
We don't talk about Bruno.

1232
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:20,720
She handles the finances.

1233
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:21,720
Yeah.

1234
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:29,640
I don't, you know, I just lay at home and, you know, arguably they probably had, I mean,

1235
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:30,640
good money.

1236
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:31,640
They own their own business and stuff.

1237
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,000
They probably didn't even realize when they had extra money.

1238
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:35,000
Yeah.

1239
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,000
Yeah.

1240
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,880
In October of 2019, Mike Wood requested a case review by the major case squad of Greater

1241
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,800
St. Louis.

1242
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:48,560
Also in October of 2019, Louis's mother Margaret Birch filed a lawsuit for a wrongful death,

1243
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:53,160
fraud and misrepresentation against the incarcerated Pam.

1244
00:57:53,160 --> 00:58:00,000
In March of 2020, Russ would receive a settlement in his civil rights case worth over $2 million.

1245
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,840
And he lost four years of his life.

1246
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:07,800
In July of 2020, Margaret would be awarded judgment of $3 million.

1247
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,600
Her attorney, Gary Berger, subsequently filed to garnish Pam's prison trust account into

1248
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,680
which her COVID relief money was placed.

1249
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:15,680
Oh well.

1250
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,680
So they're like, oh, no, you don't get that.

1251
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:18,840
Sorry.

1252
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:24,160
In September of 2020, Mark Hupp would file for divorce from Pam, describing their marriage

1253
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,600
as irretrievably broken, quote unquote.

1254
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Well, good.

1255
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,280
I mean, I took him long enough.

1256
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,280
Yeah.

1257
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,920
The same month as this, Pam filed a motion to vacate her conviction, claiming that she

1258
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,800
was pressured to take a plea deal, but it was denied less than six months later.

1259
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:39,800
Oh my gosh.

1260
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,640
Like, they just pressure me to this point.

1261
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,200
Can't you just go away and be quiet?

1262
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:44,200
No, for real.

1263
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:45,200
Like, go away and be quiet.

1264
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,480
You destroyed lives.

1265
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:51,720
In February of 2021, Mike Wood stated that the COVID pandemic had slowed the investigation,

1266
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:58,000
but that he expected, quote, significant announcements, end quote, in the summer or fall.

1267
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,840
On July 8th, 2021, Pam was interviewed in connection with the murder of Betsy Faria for

1268
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,840
the first time.

1269
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:04,840
Hmm.

1270
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,320
I don't have that interview.

1271
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,840
On July 12th, 2021, Pam Hupp was charged with first degree murder in relation to Betsy

1272
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,080
Faria and with armed criminal action.

1273
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:16,080
So she did it.

1274
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,280
I was, I was letting you believe it was a rust.

1275
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,000
I'm sorry, she did it.

1276
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,000
Poor rust.

1277
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,000
I know.

1278
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:26,040
Court documents filed by Wood asserted that Pam murdered Betsy for financial gain, and

1279
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,720
he stated that he would be seeking the death penalty due to the quote, heinousness and

1280
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,920
depravity and quote of the crime.

1281
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,920
Yeah.

1282
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,920
It was absolutely heinous to be stabbed 55 fucking times.

1283
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,320
Your wrist cut to the bone.

1284
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:40,320
That's, oh my gosh.

1285
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,320
And you left a knife in your neck.

1286
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:43,320
Yeah.

1287
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,760
And then it is completely, what do you say, the depravity of it?

1288
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,720
Yeah, it was desperate because she's like, the only reason she did it was for money.

1289
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:50,720
Yeah.

1290
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:51,720
For sure.

1291
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:56,640
The prosecution alleged that Pam repeatedly stabbed Betsy while she was asleep on the

1292
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:02,200
couch, then removed her socks and used them to spread blood all over the house to try

1293
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:06,660
to give the impression of domestic violence before placing them back on her feet.

1294
01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:10,640
Not all over the house like we explained earlier, but in that general area to make it look like

1295
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,120
it was like a big struggle.

1296
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:13,360
Right.

1297
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,880
After hearing about this, Betsy and Russ's two daughters would publicly apologize to

1298
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:18,880
Russ.

1299
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:23,800
Prosecutor Mike Wood would also state that he would be investigating potential prosecutorial

1300
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:29,360
misconduct in the original murder investigation, stating it had been quote, mismanaged from

1301
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:34,400
the beginning and quote, and driven by confirmation bias against Russ, which is so true.

1302
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:35,400
I agree.

1303
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,400
Yeah.

1304
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,240
He also suggested that the actions by investigators and prosecutors concerned could constitute

1305
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:47,440
gross negligence or quote, calculated criminal behavior and quote, which is also true.

1306
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:48,440
Yeah.

1307
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,940
He further suggested that by the time of Russ's second trial, Lincoln County prosecutors were

1308
01:00:52,940 --> 01:00:58,360
acting to protect their own civil liability rather than seeking justice.

1309
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,120
This among many other wrongdoings are things that led police to suggest that several law

1310
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,720
enforcement personnel could face criminal charges based on this trial.

1311
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:06,880
Hell yeah.

1312
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:07,880
As they should.

1313
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,160
Yeah, they should.

1314
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:14,800
In July of 2021, Pam entered a plea of not guilty and on September 8th, 2021, the armed

1315
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,920
criminal action charge against Pam was dismissed because she already had one.

1316
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,280
We already got her.

1317
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:27,080
A preliminary hearing was scheduled for February of 2022, but was delayed indefinitely after

1318
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,960
Pam's public defender died of a heart attack.

1319
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,460
It's weird.

1320
01:01:31,460 --> 01:01:32,460
It wasn't her.

1321
01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:33,460
It was just a coincidence.

1322
01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:34,460
Oh, okay.

1323
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:35,460
I think.

1324
01:01:35,460 --> 01:01:40,480
In March of 2022, Pam and Mark's divorce would be finalized, and in August of 2022, Pam

1325
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:45,200
waived her right to a preliminary hearing.

1326
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:51,160
In October of 2022, the venue of Pam's trial was moved to ensure a fair jury pool.

1327
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:56,760
In October of 2023, the Lincoln County Prosecutor's Office announced that it would refile the case

1328
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,920
to petition to a closer venue.

1329
01:01:58,920 --> 01:01:59,920
That was yesterday.

1330
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:00,920
It was.

1331
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,920
In February of 2024.

1332
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,760
That was yesterday too.

1333
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,480
Mike Wood filed a motion with the Lincoln County Circuit Court declaring the state's

1334
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:14,920
intention to pursue the death penalty due to quote, the statutory aggravating circumstance

1335
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:21,000
that the murder was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible, inhumane, and that it involved

1336
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,040
the depravity of the mind and quote.

1337
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,800
Now Pam Hupp is still serving her sentence at the Chilikov Correctional Center in Chilikov,

1338
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:29,800
Missouri.

1339
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:35,600
There's really not anything out there about Pam's suggested mental state.

1340
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,560
Although she did try to take her own life.

1341
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,080
I think that was more about pride than anything else.

1342
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,640
She didn't want to be publicly scrutinized.

1343
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:45,640
But yeah, that's the story of Pam Hupp.

1344
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,920
She's still awaiting sentencing for Betsy's death.

1345
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,480
But never been tried for her own mother.

1346
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:52,720
Still an accidental death.

1347
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:53,720
What?

1348
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:54,720
Ruling, yeah.

1349
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:55,880
No, I don't believe it.

1350
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,400
Isn't that a wild story?

1351
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:58,400
That is a wild story.

1352
01:02:58,400 --> 01:02:59,400
For Russ, man.

1353
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,200
I feel so bad for her.

1354
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:07,520
She definitely has, again, some type of personality disorder that has narcissistic tendencies.

1355
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:14,600
In my opinion, there's that other lady recently that she was on trial for starving or murdering

1356
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:15,600
her child.

1357
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,640
She was starving him in a closet and stuff.

1358
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:25,880
The entire time she's being interviewed during her while she's on the stand, it's like everything

1359
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,440
is someone else's fault.

1360
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:29,760
I just didn't think it.

1361
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:31,240
He was in there just stealing food.

1362
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,200
What was I not supposed to put a lock on the fridge?

1363
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:35,640
I pay for that food.

1364
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:37,640
It's like, are you like...

1365
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,560
People are ridiculous with their...

1366
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,560
That's the same word we've been using this whole time as ridiculous.

1367
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,560
You're playing this up because you believe it, right?

1368
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,920
And so you're trying to make it so dramatic so that like, why would she be so dramatic

1369
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:51,560
about it if it wasn't true?

1370
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:52,560
Right.

1371
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:53,560
Whatever.

1372
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:54,560
Yeah.

1373
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:55,560
Point the finger somewhere else.

1374
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,320
But yeah, it's just an awful story.

1375
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,040
Any other thoughts on her mental?

1376
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,640
I don't know.

1377
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,880
I think you're right with the personality disorder.

1378
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:12,320
I don't want to say antisocial just based on like, all of the connections she was able

1379
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:13,320
to make.

1380
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,960
But yeah, narcissistic, at least narcissistic tendencies.

1381
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,400
I don't know if it's necessarily narcissistic personality disorder.

1382
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,400
It might have just been...

1383
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,400
I don't know.

1384
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:23,400
She just...

1385
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,600
Obviously a lot of financial gain.

1386
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:30,640
And then when she realized she was potentially in trouble, she needed a fall guy, right?

1387
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:35,520
And so that's why she killed Louis and made it look like it was Russ's doing.

1388
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:36,520
And yeah, I don't know.

1389
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,520
I just can't believe that she was running around doing all this while she was married

1390
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:40,520
to Mark.

1391
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:42,520
Yeah, she was married to Mark the whole time.

1392
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:43,520
Oh gosh.

1393
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:44,760
And yeah, the whole like, it was self defense.

1394
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,720
Like, you know, she just plays this innocent lady.

1395
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:47,720
You know what?

1396
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:48,720
I didn't do anything wrong.

1397
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,120
I was trying to help Betsy by, you know, her hose.

1398
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,000
Oh, by the way, Pam wrote that email just to let you know.

1399
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,000
Oh yeah, I figured it.

1400
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,040
I'm sure you figured it, but I forgot to put it in.

1401
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:57,040
Sincerely, Pam.

1402
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,120
I mean, Russell.

1403
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,160
So yeah, they had realized that she wrote the email from Betsy's computer, but I think

1404
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:08,560
that she had written the email and then sent it to herself and then copied and pasted it

1405
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,880
because it showed that the email was written on a word software that wasn't installed

1406
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:14,120
on Betsy's computer.

1407
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,440
It was written on like a newer version of Word that had not yet been installed on Betsy's

1408
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:18,440
computer.

1409
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:19,440
Oh, that's funny.

1410
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:20,440
Yeah.

1411
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,760
And then those pictures of the, they said that the camera wasn't working or whatever.

1412
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:24,760
Yeah.

1413
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:29,640
I'm not sure it was pictures that resembled Pam in the area.

1414
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:30,640
It was her area.

1415
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:31,640
Yeah.

1416
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:32,640
Tiptoeing inside.

1417
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:33,640
Yeah.

1418
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:34,640
But yeah, that's pretty much all I have for today.

1419
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:35,640
I have a lot of case.

1420
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:36,640
Thank you, Andrea.

1421
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,640
Yeah.

1422
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,640
So yeah, for suggesting that one, that is wild.

1423
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:39,640
Yeah.

1424
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:40,640
Really great.

1425
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,440
Not great case, but just really interesting.

1426
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,840
I don't think that, I really don't think that Shirley's death is ever really going to

1427
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,680
be old or anything else.

1428
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:49,920
There's just not enough there.

1429
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,320
And the insistence on the brother, I don't know if it's denial or if he is trying to

1430
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,440
cover for something else.

1431
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:57,440
Yeah.

1432
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,880
Like if he knows that it's Pam, he doesn't want her to get in trouble or he truly like

1433
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,320
just isn't denial that it might have been a murder.

1434
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:04,320
Yeah.

1435
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,320
Well, nobody wants to admit that, right?

1436
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:09,360
That like that's something that happened to your loved one.

1437
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,360
So I don't know.

1438
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:11,360
That's hard.

1439
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,600
Well, thank you guys for joining us for another case.

1440
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:15,120
Thanks, Andrea, for the suggestion.

1441
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,120
Keep those coming.

1442
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,120
I have a whole list going.

1443
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:18,920
So I have everyones written down.

1444
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,840
But that's all I guess until Monday with another mental breakdown.

1445
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:22,840
We will see you then.

1446
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,560
I'm starving and I stink.

1447
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:25,560
Same.

1448
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:26,560
All right.

1449
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:27,560
Bye.

1450
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:28,560
Love you.

1451
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:29,560
Bye.

1452
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:37,800
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