Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of diagnosing a killer.
I'm Kenna.
And I'm Gowell.
And I just took our Christmas lights down today.
It's Marsh.
She read my mind because I was leaving the house earlier and I was like, oh my gosh, we still have our Christmas lights up.
And we don't even have them plugged in.
So it's not like it's like a nice ambience at night.
But yeah, but it's like if they're off, then it looked like if they're not on, then it's like we don't really have them on.
Because it's not Christmas time, so they don't need to be on.
But then you can like totally see them during the day.
Like they're really happy.
It's like staunch white.
Oh god.
Stark white.
Yes.
Well, it's been a day already.
I'm tired, but I'm glad that we're here.
We do have a requested case today from our lovely friend and listener Andrea.
And I will get into who I am covering in just a second.
But before we begin, if it's anybody's first time here, would you like to give them our social media?
Sure.
You could check us out on social media platforms at diagnosing a killer other than X, formerly known as Twitter, which is at killer diagnosis.
Email us. We also have a, well, it's diagnosing a killer at gmail.com.
Yeah, we always just say email us.
Yeah, just email us, you know.
We also have a Venmo, a PayPal, and a Cash App PayPal.
We'll have to look into that.
I think we have a PayPal.
Do you think so?
Someone has our PayPal. It's there.
I don't know if it's us.
Someone has our PayPal.
If you guys would like to support us monetarily, we have all three of those platforms.
We also have a Patreon, and every month our tier two and three Patreon members gets a bonus episode.
February got two bonus episodes, so yeah.
So I think.
It's a lot of content to binge.
Yeah, there's close to like 10 extra bonus episodes.
I think there's like seven or eight extra bonus episodes.
Those are Patreon only tier two and three.
No ads, no content warning, any of that.
Yeah.
All of our Patreon members also get access to free, ad-free episodes.
Blah.
I can't talk.
It's all right.
It's my case.
Did you see my bathroom that I room?
Not my bathroom.
I'm going to call it my bathroom now.
That's so funny.
Yes, it looks good.
Oh my gosh.
It's so cute.
The one thing I do want to do is like in the corner, put a little like toilet paper holder,
or like a white bees holder or something.
There's a lot of space in that bathroom, but I definitely went for like Zen Garden Chic.
Yeah.
Like a hint of Thai influence because I love elephants.
So yeah.
It's always fun remodeling something or like changing something and then you feel accomplished.
I love that.
It makes me feel good.
It's so funny because like the rest of the house, not that the rest of the house is bad,
it's just two boys live there.
So it's like bare walls and stuff.
And then you walk into this bathroom and I'm like, who lives here?
Whose bathroom is this?
And the like shaggy rug is like this deep forest green so it looks and feels like grass.
Oh, that's cool.
Oh my gosh.
I love it.
You're just going to spend all your time in that bathroom?
I'm going to have to post pictures of it because I'm pretty proud.
You're going to have to.
Yeah.
So I'm going to go ahead and get right into this episode.
Remember, this is a request from friend Andrea and today we are going to be talking about
Pam Hup.
Pam Hup?
I don't think I know who this is.
I feel like when I saw the suggestion, I recognized the name, but as I was doing my research,
I was like, I really don't think I knew this case before I started researching it, but it's
wild.
Is it Pam like calm?
There's a silent L?
No, just PAM.
Okay.
P-A-N?
M?
P-A-M.
Like the cooking screen.
Oh, two M's.
Just one M.
Okay.
P-A-M.
Have you ever seen Step Brothers?
No.
Oh, okay.
I mean yes, but no, not enough.
Was I just bamboozled?
You weren't bamboozled before.
Damn.
You've been bamboozled.
Damn it.
All right.
Let's get into this episode.
It's a very simple and quick warning.
This episode contains depictions of death from serious illness, raw audio of persons in
distress, suicidal tendencies and actions, and taking advantage of vulnerable people.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health is very important, and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
So yeah, that's what we're working with here.
So in order to talk about Pam Hupp, we first need to talk about her parents.
A soul was born on November 16, 1935, and she would attend Floresont Valley Community
College after growing up.
Following this, Shirley would enroll at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, and would
get a job teaching grade school after graduation.
Shirley would meet a man by the name of Victor Joseph Newman Jr., and the two would get married.
I don't know if it was quickly or not.
At some point they got married.
Victor was born to his father, Victor Joseph Newman Sr., and Sylvia Jones Newman.
Victor would grow up to become a union man who worked for decades at Union Electric.
On October 10, 1958, Shirley and Victor would welcome their daughter, Pamela Marie Newman,
to the world.
Hmm.
They would also welcome two little boys as well, Michael Newman and Dan Newman, and
another girl by the name of Sherry Newman.
But no, no Randy Newman, so.
No Randy Newman.
No.
The family was raised in Delwood, Missouri, and by all accounts, Pam had a pretty normal
upbringing.
From her parents' perspective, Pam was a sweet child who rode bikes with her friends and
went Christmas caroling every year.
Who does that?
Right.
I mean, like we used to have gandada, but that's like different.
That's way different.
We're not knocking on people's doors this thing for too long.
Yeah.
I wonder if that's, I mean that's a sweet thing to do, but I feel like a very rare thing
to do, so.
Especially now.
Like I don't think I hear about that ever.
I've heard it over in Texas, everybody's gun owners.
Well, yeah, it's also like hot even during Christmas.
So Pam was known for her enthusiastic nature and noticeably long blonde hair, and according
to her friends, Pam was quote, boy crazy.
Let every, what teenager is in boy crazy, you know, at some point.
So due to her being very interested in boys, Pam's grades were not the best during her
time at Riverview Gardens High School.
While here, Pam would meet a boy who was soft spoken, well liked, and a member of the golf
and soccer teams, as well as the National Honor Society.
Really accomplished young man.
The two would attend prom together, and just three months into dating, they would quickly
get married.
I thought you were going to say something else besides married, but no, we'll get that
checked.
They would quickly get married.
That checks out.
The couple's marriage would last following high school, and they would move into an apartment
together.
However, their marriage never really flourished in love or even financially, and the two would
get divorced after only six years together.
They would separate, but not before giving birth to a daughter by the name of Sarah.
I couldn't find this man's name.
I'm not sure if that's on purpose or not, but I really looked at all it said is like
her ex-husband.
Like I never named him.
He's probably like, fuck that.
Or maybe she didn't talk much about him.
You know, they were so far removed and he never came out from the shadows.
Yeah, well, if he was as soft spoken as he was described, he probably wouldn't go to
the media or anything.
Whatever it is happens.
It's true.
He's like, oh, that's my ex-wife.
He's like, whoa, fuck that.
I'm gonna hit on this shit.
She's the one that's the title of this episode.
Who?
The title of this episode.
Sometime around this time, Pam would hold down several jobs in the life insurance industry,
and on two separate occasions, she would be fired for forging signatures.
So, little petty crimes here.
Yeah.
Sometime later, Pam would meet another man by the name of Mark Hupp, and the two would
get married as well.
And a reasonable amount of time of dating each other.
I think I said not sure exactly how long they knew each other before getting married,
but it seems like it was sometime in like the mid 80s when they started dating.
Okay.
Mark was known also for his quiet demeanor and was an easygoing guy who played minor
league baseball for the Texas Rangers.
Interesting.
When I think at this point the Texas Rangers minor league team was in like Oklahoma or
Missouri, I think he was pretty close to where Pam was.
When Mark got turned down for the MLB, he would change careers and begin working as
a carpenter.
Sometime in June of 1987, Mark and Pam would welcome a little boy into the world, Travis
Hupp.
Having Sarah with them as well, Pam, Mark, and their two children would move to Naples,
Florida in 1989 where they would remain for around 12 years before returning back to O'Fallon,
Missouri.
So there's really not a lot known about the time that the family spent in Florida.
I mean, really nothing I guess right home about.
But they would return to Missouri in 2001.
That's interesting because I mean, where's the poop?
We kind of really haven't seen a lot of poop other than she's the fact that she's the
fact that she was seemingly boy crazy when she was younger and she tends to pick soft
spoken individuals to marry.
But really not a lot of poop.
Not a lot of poop.
And she's kind of, I mean, I think she picks, I think.
I think she picks soft spoken men because she's a little domineering maybe.
It's easier to deal with men that aren't going to challenge her back.
But yeah, just two kids, 12 years, I mean, great marriage, you know all this stuff.
So back in Missouri, Pam would work as an administrator for State Farm and flipped houses
on the side for a company called H2 Partners LLC.
Mark would also help with the home flipping and people who knew the Hupps at this time
would state that they were harmonious partners in both life and business for decades.
Harmonious, sorry, not harmonious.
Harmonious, harmonious.
It's fine.
But Pam, however, would be the shotcaller of the relationship, if you will, but it didn't
really seem to bother Mark.
Again, he was soft spoken, easygoing, pretty polite, and he just kind of let her do her
thing, you know?
Yeah, sometimes that works.
It's like, you know, if like me, I consider myself to be an indecisive person in certain
things and so is Cliff, but it's like it works out because of things that I'm not indecisive
about, he is.
Yeah.
And vice versa.
And some people are just comfortable being in relationships where they have guidance
and direction by their partner and they're fine with it.
Yeah, definitely.
So this being the case, Pam would be the one who did most of the communicating with other
people in the house flipping business.
She would be the one to like set the appointments and talk, you know, the most when she's there.
Yeah, she had the more control, right?
Yeah.
The control freak of it.
Right.
While still being employed at State Farm, Pam would meet and become friends with a co-worker
by the name of Elizabeth Kaye Myer Feria, who went by the nickname Betsy.
Okay.
So this is Betsy, her friend.
Okay, her friend Betsy.
Yes.
Her quote unquote friend Betsy.
Yeah, they're homies.
I mean, they work together.
Okay.
They're acquaintances.
When you said that she had befriended somebody, I was anticipating it was going to be a male.
Oh no.
Okay.
So Betsy lived in Troy, Missouri with her husband, Russell Scott Feria or Russ.
So it's Betsy and Russ.
They have nicknames, right?
Cute.
So around the time that Betsy met Pam, Pam also became aware that Betsy and Russ were
living with two daughters that Russ had from a previous marriage.
Okay.
So there's the four of them.
Mm-hmm.
In 2010, Betsy would get a life-changing diagnosis.
She had developed breast cancer.
Oh no.
Unfortunately, by October of 2011, Betsy would also learn that her cancer had metastasized
in her liver and had now become terminal.
Oh no.
Oh, that's awful.
During the time that Betsy was struggling with her illness, her and Pam would become
closer as friends as they were spending time together at work and now outside of it.
And she kind of leaned on, you know, Pam, I think they kind of leaned on each other.
Yeah.
Well, Pam seems like, you know, kind of the not strong, not necessarily strong headed.
What am I trying to say?
She seems like a person that, again, she's already guiding her husband and all that.
So she seems like a person that's probably very well organized in her thinking maybe
as well.
Yeah.
She seems like it's easy, especially when you find someone that you have a strong bond
with or connection with to like be able to open up and lean on them a little bit more.
Yeah.
She's like the kind of person that can take it, you know, that can take on those other
people's, you know, burdens.
Right.
On December 22nd, 2011, it became known that Betsy had changed the sole beneficiary of
her $150,000 life insurance policy from Russ to now Pam.
Even though he has two kids.
Yes.
Hmm.
Betsy had asked Pam to make sure that the money went to her daughters when she passed
on.
I see.
So it seems like Betsy was kind of worried, according to Pam, that her husband might not
use it like fairly and not maybe use it for the kids.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
However, Pam would later claim that Betsy had actually told her that she wanted to keep
the money for herself and she trusted Pam with it.
So either way, it seems like she doesn't want Russ to have this money.
Okay.
It's either going to be for the daughters or it's going to be for her, but she doesn't
want Russ to have it.
Yeah.
Which is funny because if she passes away, she can't use it.
You know what I mean?
But yeah, so it didn't really make a lot of sense.
Five days later on December 27th, Betsy went to another chemotherapy treatment at the Alvin
J. Seitman Cancer Center in St. Louis and then went to visit her mother.
After visiting with her mother, Pam would arrive and drive Betsy home.
Russ had originally been the one who was going to give Betsy a ride home.
However, Pam would unexpectedly show up to give Betsy a ride that night.
She might have just been checking on her, you know, oh, like I see you've been running
around.
Yeah.
You know, don't worry.
I'm already in the area.
You know, I'll pick you up.
Yeah.
And Betsy does have terminal fucking cancer.
Exactly.
She's like, let me go check on my friend.
Right.
Pam stated that she dropped Betsy off at home at around 7 p.m.
However, at 7 21 p.m., one of Betsy and Russ's daughters would call Betsy and the call would
not be answered.
That evening, Russ stated that he was at a friend's home by the name of Michael Corbin
and the two watched movies from around six to nine p.m.
After the movies were over, Russ said that he and his friend drove to an Arby's in Lake
St. Louis before returning home.
Gotta get them curly fries.
At 9 40 p.m., 9 11 would receive a call.
I think County 911, what is the location of your emergency?
Okay ma'am.
Hello?
Yes, I need you to take a couple deep breaths so I can see what's going on.
What is the address for you need to come?
Okay, what is the telephone number you're calling from in case we get disconnected?
I don't know this number.
I know my cell phone number.
Okay, what is that number?
It's 214-565.
Okay, who am I speaking with?
My name is Russell Ferreira.
Russell, what's going on there?
I just got home from a run-down and am on my way to the shelter.
She's on the phone with her.
Okay Russell, I need you to calm down honey, okay?
I need you to calm down, take a couple deep breaths.
We're going to get somebody on the way there, okay?
What did she do, do you know?
She got a knife in her neck and she sped it through her arms.
Okay, okay, calm down honey.
So yes, obviously Russ is very much in distress.
I mean that's really hard to listen to.
Yeah.
Very upset.
If you couldn't understand what he was saying, he essentially said that he came home, found
his wife, and he said, my wife killed herself and the operator's like, how do you know that?
And he said that something like she has a knife in her neck.
And she sliced up her arms is what he had said.
That call is actually much longer than that, but I just thought that that was important
to put that first clip in there.
So Betsy was found on her side on the floor in front of their couch.
She had been stabbed over 55 times.
Her wrists were cut to the bone and a serrated kitchen knife was lodged in her neck.
What?
So I know that I think you had said this off mic, but you were like, I don't like it when
you just immediately assumed that she killed herself or whatever without knowing.
And I was like, she was very sick.
And so we don't know, but she might have said within the last couple of weeks before this,
oh, I just want to die.
Maybe things looked like that because she was terminal.
And that might have been his first thought because she may have been struggling with
depression towards the end.
I think that it's every time I'm like, oh, there's the poop.
When someone calls and is like, oh, I found someone, they killed themselves or I found
someone, an intruder hurt them or like, it's like, well, you're not a detective and you
just walked in and you're any, any narrative that you're trying to spend, you choose to
do it in the first five seconds of 911 call.
I don't think so.
It sounds a little sus.
It's like, he's my number one suspect right now.
Remember what was all we listened to recently?
It was like immediately like.
So it was Alex Cox when he was like, I shot my brother in law with self-defense.
Like, hi, this is Alex Cox, A-L-E-X-C-O-X.
I killed my brother in law.
It was self-defense.
Whoa.
Exactly.
So Russ is your, yeah, your suspect.
Russ is my suspect.
My number one suspect right now.
Also, how do you not understand that someone's been stabbed 55 times?
Yeah, that's, you couldn't kill yourself that way.
I don't think you would get that far.
I don't think that you could kill yourself that way.
Yeah, exactly.
Following the 911 call, first responders would arrive in less than 10 minutes.
They concluded that Betsy had been dead for at least an hour or maybe longer.
Oh.
While there was a massive amount of blood where Betsy's body was found, there was no
blood evidence in any showers or sinks, suggesting that someone cleaned themselves up.
Cleaned up.
Okay, okay.
Well, if Russ, if his friend isn't lying, Russell was clearly doing something in that
last hour.
He came home, got pissed, chose to kill her, and then called 911 because that would have,
there would be fresh evidence of that, right?
Yeah.
Well, he said he was out of the house until well after nine o'clock.
Right.
However, there is also no blood trails that were found exiting the home.
So it seems like whoever did it is still in the home.
Okay, never mind.
Russ is my number one suspect again.
Betsy's death was later reported as being sometime between 7.20 and 9.41 p.m.
Okay.
The following day, investigators would arrest Russell Faria and bring him down to the station
for questioning.
I think he says, he pronounces it furia.
Furia.
Like he was saying it, Faria.
Furia.
First responders would comment that it was quote, ludicrous and quote, that Russ stated
to 911 that his wife had killed herself considering the condition of her body when they arrived
on the scene.
Yeah.
After police searched the home, they came across a pair of bloody slippers in Russ's
bedroom closet.
Police also noted that Russ was in an agitated and emotional state when they arrived at his
home and this was very suspicious to them.
Well, I mean, you're going to be agitated.
You're going to be agitated.
You're going to be pissed.
You're going to be a lot of things.
After arriving at the station, investigators would ask Russ if he would be willing to do
a polygraph test to which he obliged.
Russ would ultimately fail the polygraph test, adding to the theory that he was guilty of
his life's murder.
What?
Knowing that Pam Hupp was also one of the last people to see Betsy alive, police would
bring her in for questioning as well.
She would state to police that Russ did have a quote, violent temper and quote, that he
was a heavy drinker and that he had recently threatened Betsy when she was considering
leaving him.
Pam said this?
Yes.
She said that Betsy had confided in her.
Pam had also expressed to police that she actually received an email from Betsy a few
days before she died, in which she expressed fears that Russ may harm her.
This email read, quote, Pam, I know we talked about this yesterday, but I feel I really
need you to believe me.
I really do feel that Russ is going to do something to me.
Last night he asked me why I came home instead of staying at my mom's.
I told him I had things to do.
He was very angry with me for being in the house.
I couldn't figure out why.
Then I caught him with my laptop.
He was reading my emails.
When I asked him about it, he said he can do whatever he wants.
He said I won't be around much longer, so what do I care?
He continued to tell me how much money he would make after I die.
He's been talking like this for months.
He wants me to stay at my mom's.
He likes the house to himself.
He tells me it's his house and I'm just a guest.
Right now I stay at my mom's, Linda's, or a friend's for most of the week.
I was home last night and I have to go back on Friday for the weekend.
My mom has a friend staying with her from out of town so I don't have a bed to sleep in.
Last night was the worst.
I fell asleep on the couch while watching TV.
I woke up to Russ holding a pillow over my face.
I didn't know what was going on.
I broke loose and started to scream at him asking what he was doing.
He said that he wanted me to know what dying feels like.
I need to change my life insurance policy out of his name, but I can't let him know that
I've taken him off as beneficiary.
I need your help with this.
I can't give it to my girls because they'll blow it.
Do you think I could put it in your name and you could help my daughters when they need
it?
I really need to talk to you about this.
I'm so tired from the cancer and I'm so afraid of staying out in Troy alone with Russ.
If something happens to me, would you please show this to the police?"
Jesus.
The chills.
Okay, well I was kind of half joking about the Russ thing because clearly Pam's name
is on this episode.
Yeah, for sure.
But like, what?
Yeah, it's pretty heavy.
It makes sense though because it literally says in the email, like, show this to the
police please, like if something would happen to me.
And so it makes sense why Pam would be showing them that during this interview.
With this newfound evidence on January 4th, 2012, Russ was charged with first degree murder
and armed criminal action with his bail being set at $250,000.
It would be about 320 grand today.
I mean the only evidence they have right now though, well, it's kind of a lot.
It's kind of a lot but it's all circumstantial.
Yeah.
But it's like, is anyone going to corroborate where he was?
I mean 55 times though you would think there would be a blood trail that led outside because
if you stab someone 55 times the likelihood of you cutting, the perpetrator cutting themselves
is very high.
Very high.
So that's interesting to me that they wouldn't find any blood trail leading outside or bloody
well.
To the bathroom or whatever.
But the slippers are in his closet.
So a perpetrator could have done this and then thrown the slippers in the closet and
then gotten away scot-free.
But then there's no trail from the living room to the bedroom where the slippers are
placed.
I don't know, it's very strange.
It would have had to.
But he also failed the polygraph test.
Yeah.
Which is inadmissible but it is probable cause.
Yeah, it's sus though.
Super sus.
So Russ is awaiting trial.
Okay.
On October 29th, 2013, Pam and her mother Shirley would spend the night together after
Pam drove her mom to the hospital for a visit.
The following day, on October 30th, Pam would drop Shirley off at her apartment and told
the apartment staff, quote, if Shirley does not show up for breakfast to notify the family,
end quote.
What?
Her mom was like 77 at this point so I don't know if she was just worried about her health
or something.
Right.
The next day, at around 2.30pm, a housekeeper would come across the dead body of Shirley
Newman beneath the balcony of her apartment.
Beneath the balcony of her apartment?
The balcony railing had been broken, suggesting that Shirley had fallen from her porch.
She was on a, obviously not the bottom floor.
She's a frail old woman though.
How does she break the balcony?
Well, you fall.
I mean, maybe she tripped, you know?
That's true.
She could have like fallen like full force backwards or something into it.
Yeah.
Following the medical examination of the body, it was determined that Shirley had died from
blunt trauma to the chest, resulting from an accidental fall.
Okay.
However, in a later autopsy, it was discovered that Shirley had 0.84 micrograms of the drug
zulpedim in her system.
This is over eight times the usual dosage.
And what does it do?
I think it's like a sedative.
Like a sleeping pillar or something.
Following the death of her mother, Pam would collect her $10,000 life insurance and split
that and the approximately $120,000 in investments with her siblings.
Yeah, she had three siblings.
So when did Betsy die again?
Betsy died in 2012 or 2011, sorry.
Okay.
And this is 2017.
Okay.
Yes.
A month after Shirley died, police would receive an anonymous tip that Pam, the last person
to see Shirley alive, was the reason behind her death, with her motivation being for the
insurance money.
You know, she's familiar with insurance.
In the tip was a video that was taken earlier that same year of Pam.
This video was taken during the investigation of Betsy Faria's death when police were questioning
Pam, like I talked about a second ago.
Here it is.
Were we going to watch the video?
Well, we're not going to watch it.
We're going to listen to it.
Okay.
Just for clarification, this is, the video is just video footage from the interrogation
of Pam in the previous years about Betsy's death.
I see.
So it's just like an interview.
Okay.
But Pam does mention something in this interview that correlates to this new crime.
But it's like in an interview room.
Yes.
Okay.
I thought it was like a visual thing.
And I was like, this is a radio show.
No one can see that.
Okay.
Here we go.
Two months ago, my mom got an accident and we had to put her in a home.
I really hate to say it, wanted money.
My mom's worth a half a million that I get when she dies.
My mom is a dementia and doesn't have to time know who we are.
Right.
Has been living alone in a condo.
And I know that sounds really morbid and stuff like that, but I am a life insurance person.
But if I really wanted money, there was an easier way than trying to combat somebody
that's physically stronger than me.
I'm just saying.
I'm sorry.
Easier?
Yeah.
She said the word easier.
There's an easier way for me to get money.
Yeah.
And the fact that she pointed out that her own mother lives alone, like, and she knows exactly
how much she's worth.
She's done the research.
She's like, I'm just saying, like, if I really wanted money, like, with this, this is before,
again, keep in mind, this is before Shirley is dead.
So she's like, if I really needed money, like, I would just kill my mom and then now her
mom turns up dead.
It's like, that's weird.
Yeah.
I've heard that before, but in the context of if I was really going to cheat on you,
do you think I would do it with that person?
Yeah.
And it turns out to be that person.
Yeah, right.
And that's just a manipulation tactic.
It's almost, if I'm thinking correctly, I'm pretty sure that's also a narcissistic
trait.
Yeah.
Is being, is the way that you're, or gaslighting too, is, well, let me just make it sound ridiculous.
Therefore, you're, well, yeah, I guess she would, right?
That does make sense that she would want to kill her own mom first.
Exactly.
And not her friend.
Yeah, no, she's dumb.
Yeah, because of the ridiculousness of it.
It's don't look over here.
Look over here.
Yeah.
Oh, this is so stupid.
This is just beneath me.
So following this interview surfacing, police would reopen the investigation on the death
of Shirley.
However, after interviewing the housekeeper who found her and Pam's brother Michael,
police were able to understand that Shirley was quote, unsteady, meaning she didn't have
great balance.
Right.
This combined with the drugs that she was prescribed, although there was more in her
system, made police conclude that Shirley's death was indeed an accident.
Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, I understand.
I mean, I understand that it's prescribed to her.
And again, it's one of those probability things like did she and her dementia take too much?
Or was it something that was prescribed to her accidentally more than once or something
like that?
Yeah, especially dementia patients, like they can definitely double take medication, even
if a drip will take it, you know?
Yeah.
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They actually, police would actually never interview Pam regarding her mom's death.
What?
They didn't feel like they needed to.
You think that you would though?
Like there's enough, I would think.
But again, all circumstantial.
She could have just been saying that, you know?
So on November 18th, 2013, back to Russ, he would attend his trial for the death of Betsy.
His defense attorney, Joel Schwartz, would bring a big case, including testimonies from
four friends Russ was with on the night of the murder, cell phone records being located
20 miles away from the murder scene, and evidence of purchases at different stores and other
locations around the same time of death.
Schwartz would state that all of these things did not allow a timeline for Russ to have
committed the murder.
On top of this, the defense mentioned that there were bloody slippers in the closet, but
there were no traces of blood on Russ's body or his clothing.
At all?
At all.
Okay.
So they're like, how could he have not had blood on him?
Yeah, and they just found the slippers half-hazardly like thrown in the closet, but yet where
the rest of his bloody clothes exactly.
He changed them, he took a shower, he threw it down the street, you know, whatever, they
could say anything.
Yeah, he threw the bloody clothes somewhere else, but chose to keep the slippers.
They were his favorite slippers.
Yeah, he didn't want to get rid of them.
Prosecuting attorney Leah Aske would state that Russ's friends were providing a false
alibi for him and even conspired with him to commit the murder, including holding his
phone for him and using his card to make purchases elsewhere.
I don't care who you are, if all four of those people...
Just gotta be at least one person that would be like, didn't get the story straight, doesn't
feel comfy about it, and especially if they're under threat of conspiring with them.
I mean, they're not gonna take these guys to court for that, because there's no evidence
for that.
It's a stretch.
Yeah.
Leah would refer to this as a quote, ultimate role play and quote,
Joel Schwartz submitted an argument that would suggest a different perpetrator of the
crime, including phone records, but Judge Christina Minnemeier refused to allow him to bring this
new suggested perpetrator to light.
During the trial, Detective Mike Merkel had reported that a crime scene camera had broken,
and because of this, the photos were unable to be pulled of a possible suspect of the
crime.
Wait, what?
There was like a camera that was in the area of the crime that essentially allegedly picked
up someone fleeing or whatever.
The camera was broken so they couldn't pull anything off of it.
I see.
So they didn't put that into court.
Like they didn't show like pictures of anyone.
They don't have like, yeah.
These pictures would later be surfaced, but not during this.
On November 21st, 2013, just a few days into the trial, Russ Feria would be convicted on
both counts, and a month later, he would be sentenced to life in prison plus 30 years without
the possibility of parole.
Damn.
This was subsequently sent to the Jefferson City Correctional Center, although a key component
of the prosecution's case was that all four of Russ's friends helped him pull this murder
off.
None of them were ever charged with anything.
I was gonna say, like you threatened that, but like, if it's like we would be in custody
if you thought that was the truth.
Exactly.
In fact, the friends were not even fully aware that Aske had implicated them in her closing
argument until they heard through media.
Ew.
So they had no idea that they were even being like essentially put on trial for this.
Yeah, just ruin these four men's lives.
Thanks.
The Feria's daughters and the rest of the family were relieved when Russ got his sentence.
And in an interview given following the sentence, his sister Julie had made unheard claims.
She stated that Russ had been angered by the removal of his name from a separate insurance
policy and that he had on one occasion held a pillow on Betsy's face and stated, quote,
this is what it feels like to die, end quote.
What?
In response, Schwartz said that this sounded very similar to the story that Pam shared
with police, but no one really thought anything of it.
It was almost like she was repeating what she had heard from maybe from Pam.
Yeah.
An initial motion for a new trial was requested on Russ's behalf, but it would be rejected
by Judge Christina Minnimer in December of 2013.
The next month in January of 2014, the St. Louis Post-Ditchpatch newspaper and KTVI
would partner up and review the case.
So just media sources.
Also in January of 2014, Chris Hayes, the same man who interviewed Pam the previous
year, decided to go to Pam's home and question her about the death of her mother.
So this is the same guy that interviewed that we heard the interview on.
Here's the transcript.
Do you want to be Chris?
I'll be Chris.
How did your mom die?
How did my mom die?
Oh, by the way, I'm Pam.
Yeah.
What do you mean?
Well, what happened?
She died.
Like the people in the home say she committed suicide, so I'm not quite sure what's going
on.
Really?
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
I mean, just jumped?
I don't know because we don't know what's going on.
So.
Was she suicidal?
I don't think so.
I don't know.
How do you know with an Alzheimer's patient?
And that's essentially the exchange.
How do you know with an Alzheimer's patient if they're suicidal?
Yeah.
They don't know what's going on half the time.
Yeah.
But if I had Alzheimer's, I'd probably be kind of suicidal if I was told that I had
Alzheimer's.
Oh, no.
I'd be in La La Land, hopefully.
It sucks for everyone else around you, but it's like, I mean, you know.
So yeah, that was the exchange.
She actually went to her house and they sit on the porch for about 30 minutes talking.
So she chatted with him for a little while.
In February, the Post-Dispatch reported that Pam Hub had kept the $150,000 life insurance
policy of Betsy's rather than giving it to her daughters, like she asked.
They also mentioned that Pam had contradicted herself during police interviews, one in which
she claimed that she did not enter the Faria House after driving Betsy home, but later
stated that she revisited the house twice that night.
On top of this, the 911 operator who had taken Russ's call truly believed he was in distress.
The article that the Post-Dispatch newspaper released alleged that the prosecutor in the
case, Leah Aske, was in a relationship with the captain of the investigators for the Lincoln
County Sheriff's Office, a man called Mike Lang.
Oh my gosh.
Is this habeas corpus?
Tell me.
Not only did they accuse the prosecutor of being in this relationship, but also with
one of the investigating officers of the case and a prosecution witness.
What?
I don't know if that was ever confirmed.
That's a big huge no-no, though.
That's like conflict of interest for sure.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Oh, well all of this was going on.
Pam and Mark were living their best lives.
They would use H2 partners for their real estate needs, but sometime in 2014, Pam would
start her own firm, H2 Partners Building Solutions, enlisted herself as the president.
And the president.
Maybe the president.
And the president.
This new home would also double as their business address.
On the other end, Russ's attorney, Joel Schwartz, would appeal the conviction of Russ.
In February of 2015, the Missouri Court of Appeals sent the case to the 45th Circuit Court
for a hearing on a retrial.
Judge Minimier had actually removed herself from the case at this point, so a Judge Steve
Omer would be the judge to grant a motion for a new bench trial based on the new evidence
that had emerged.
Russell Feria would be released on bond to await this new trial.
During the retrial, Joel Schwartz was allowed to introduce evidence that implicated Pam
Hupp as the perpetrator.
CSI agent Amy Butner had examined the crime scene and testified during this hearing that
she believes that the slippers found in Russ's closet had not been bloodied by stepping in
blood.
It was almost like it was like flung on there.
What?
Or whatever, like rolled.
But it wasn't like a splash that it would happen if you stepped in blood and it splashed
up.
Yeah.
Or like from like the, what do they call that?
Like the spatter from-
Yeah.
The spatter of the crime.
Police officers would also disclose in the trial that Pam, who was not called to testify,
had claimed in recent interviews that her and Betsy had been in a sexual relationship.
I, okay.
What?
I called it.
I said, I said Betsy are quote unquote friend.
They're just friends.
Well, that's also, again, hearsay.
It wasn't ever really confirmed.
Pam had also told investigators that she remembered seeing Russ and another man in a car parked
on a side street outside the Feria house as she drove Betsy home.
Oh, you just forgot that giant detail.
I forgot that giant detail.
You know, the night that my best friend died.
No, for real.
Yeah.
And her husband was convicted of her murder.
Right.
Oh my gosh.
She was like, I was actually there.
I saw him do it.
But like I didn't actually see, I mean like, you know what I mean?
Like I was just there.
I saw him through the window.
It was totally him though.
Like it absolutely was.
As a matter of fact, it was probably his friend.
I don't know.
In May of 2015, prosecutor Leah Aske would interview Pam.
They would discuss the life insurance money and how Pam promised to give the money to
Betsy's daughters.
They talked about how people kept bringing this up to Pam.
So we're going to listen to another short audio clip of this interview.
Okay.
The more people kept telling me to do it, the more I didn't want to do it.
I didn't.
Right.
I was really pissing me off.
I'm getting bullied.
You're getting bullied?
Yeah.
The prosecutor was like, oh, you were getting bullied.
Yeah.
It might be one of those interviewing tactics where you're trying to like be on someone's
side or between like you're on their side.
Yeah.
For sure.
But it makes me think of like what I'm on my way to go do the dishes and someone's like,
hey, can you do the dishes?
And I'm like, fuck you know, I don't want to do them.
But you're talking about giving people their daughter or their mother's life insurance.
Yeah.
That's what the same thing.
Exactly.
She's like, people just kept begging me about it.
So I just didn't want to do it.
I just like made the more they asked the less I wanted to do it.
I don't know.
I can't explain it.
Just, you know, you know, and yeah, you know, people ask you to do the dishes.
As the women continue their conversation, the topic shifts to Pam's mother.
Wow.
Oh, poor me.
Everyone's pointing the finger at me.
Yeah.
Let's gender it real quick.
Right.
Also, again, she's doing that thing.
Everybody in the world thinks I did this.
Every single person.
First of all, you're not that important.
Not.
Second of all, again, she does that thing.
It was like, I took this 210-pound woman and I threw her through this railing.
Look at how ridiculous that is.
Oh, really?
I mean, it's not that ridiculous.
She phrases it in a way.
You know who was like that too was that Dan Wozniak.
He was like that too.
Yeah.
Everybody just thinks I just did this.
I just killed this girl for what?
I don't even know who she is.
Just to credit those two videos, I forgot to do the 911 call, but that was from 911
True Crime Tapes on YouTube.
And then the last two clips or the last three clips you heard were all from the same video
posted by Chris Hayes, the investigator.
The investigator?
Yeah.
And that's also on YouTube.
So yeah, like Leah comes over to question her.
They're talking about, you know, the life insurance money.
They're talking about Betsy, right?
And then all of a sudden, Shirley gets brought up and Pam's like, oh, she does this big display.
And Leah never comments on what she says.
Doesn't say anything back to her about it.
Doesn't question why it sounds like she's trying to defend herself all over again.
Why do you feel the need to bring that up?
You know, whatever.
It's already been ruled an accident.
Nothing.
She could have just been like, well, tell me about that again.
And any indiscrepancies that she would have had from a past interview could have been
held against her.
But she chose not to do that.
Exactly.
On November 7th, 2015, Russ's conviction was overturned and he was released from prison
after having served almost four years.
Four years?
Yes.
In 2016, Joel Schwartz would file a bar complaint against Leah Aske.
And this would eventually be dismissed by the office of the chief disciplinary counsel.
In July of 2016, Russ would file a civil rights lawsuit against Leah Aske and three deputy
sheriffs on the grounds that they had, quote, fabricated evidence, ignored exonerating evidence
and failed to investigate the other obvious suspect.
Let's go, Russell.
Let's go.
The following month, Aske and the sheriff's office issued a press release stating that
they were cooperating with the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri
in a review of the case.
Leah's like, I did everything in my power.
He does the same thing.
Around this same time, Pam was catching wind of Russ's exoneration and police having a
new suspect in the case.
On top of this, Dateline had already aired several specials on Betsy's case, making
it more well known around town.
After Russ filed his civil suit, Pam came up with the plan.
She would approach several people and pose as a Dateline producer.
She would offer each person $1,000 to do a reenactment of a 911 call.
I don't know.
Maybe it was Russ's.
A few people would decline the offer after not seeing a camera crew or any type of employment
ID with Pam.
I'm just going to memorize it.
Pam was able to get someone to help her, a 33-year-old man by the name of Lewis Gumpenberger.
Gumpenbeger.
Yes, exactly.
Lewis was noted as having mental and physical injuries that were the result of a car accident,
and he agreed to go with Pam to help her.
According to Pam, upon approaching Lewis, he forced his way into her car, and she was
able to get him out of the vehicle and drive off.
What?
However, he would follow her home and try to assault her.
Pam stated that once she realized that Lewis was attempting to assault her, she just had
to shoot him in self-defense.
What?
A note was found on Lewis' person suggesting that Russ had paid him to kill Pam after first
forcing her to go to the ATM to withdraw the life insurance money.
The note stated, quote, kidnap Hup, get Russ's money from Hup at her bank, and kill Hup,
end quote.
Signed Pam.
I mean, I'm sorry.
Signed Russell.
Literally.
Like she just crossed her own name out.
Oh my God.
This woman.
I know.
She's lawless.
$100 was also found on Lewis' person.
Pam had called 911 three times during the time that she was with Lewis.
The first two were to report a burglary, and on the third call dispatchers stopped to listen.
They heard several seconds of silence before shots were fired.
Lewis' body was found inside the Hup home, where the piece of carpet, like loose carpet,
shoved under his body, almost to prevent him from bleeding on the floor.
Bleeding on the carpet?
Yeah.
Houses are nasty when people die in them, according to the Saudi family.
Seriously.
Along with this, the $100 bills found on his person had the same serial numbers as others
found in Pam's room.
So it's like she grabbed them from her room and shoved them in his pocket.
Sorry, it's not funny.
Oh my gosh, this woman.
I know.
It's like Dalulu.
Yeah, laughing at the ridiculousness of it, not the seriousness of it.
It was clear from the crime scene that Lewis had not been in the bedroom, so he couldn't
have taken him himself.
Since Pam had placed two 911 calls prior to the shooting to report a burglary, the third
one was actually recorded by dispatchers.
Immediately after the shooting, Pam voluntarily went to the O'Fallon Police Department.
While sitting down with police, Pam would immediately state, quote, is this going to
be filmed because I always appear on the news with Chris Hayes, end quote.
Oh my, the narcissism of this woman.
She would go on to blame Chris Hayes for attracting threatening people to her.
She's like, I'm going to sue his ass too.
I'm going to sue him because this psycho went and followed me home and tried to-
If I wasn't on the news.
If I wasn't on the news, it's that guy's fault that this guy's dead now.
I think he did it himself.
Just afraid me.
So awful.
And it's so delusional, seriously.
Pam would claim that Louis Goombinbega had jumped out of a car, which was being driven
by another person, and brandished a knife while she sat in her car in her driveway.
So now it's a news story.
Yeah, he just tucked and rolled real quick, and then he hops up and goes, and then he's
got a knife.
Exactly.
She said that Louis demanded she drive to a bank to receive, quote, Russ's money, end
quote.
She said that she then knocked the knife out of Louis's hand with a quote, karate chop.
And-
No, she didn't.
And then she ran inside.
She's like, I took 27 years with Muay Thai, I know.
That's really so ridiculous.
When has such a karate chop ever been overpowered with-
Yeah!
Yeah.
Yeah!
And the guy's like, no, my knife!
They're a table!
It's broken!
Okay, this is terrible.
After she entered the house, she claimed that Louis was following her inside, causing her
to shoot him in self-defense.
Okay, but yeah.
So he was outside, she was in her driveway?
Yeah, she said.
And then he pulls up, somebody else is driving, he hops out with a knife, she karate chops
him, knife gone.
She runs inside.
He follows, but she's in the living room, hopefully, maybe.
And he books it to her room to grab a few hundred bucks and put it in his pocket, then
comes out and instigates this again.
Exactly.
And then she shoots him.
It doesn't make any sense, because again, investigators found out that he was never
in the bedroom.
Yeah.
And if you're really trying to shoot someone in self-defense, you have every right to shoot
someone if they enter your home without your permission.
But I mean, I would assume it would be as soon as he crossed the threshold into her home.
Oh, I'm sorry, he grabbed the money, he came back out into the living room, and then he
laid on the carpet that she had placed there.
And then she felt threatened enough to shoot him.
Exactly.
Interesting.
After investigating the claims, St. Charles County prosecuting attorney and the O'Fallon
chief of police came to the conclusion that Pam had lured Louis into her home, presenting
herself as Kathy, a producer for Dateline.
My name's Kathy.
Yeah, exactly.
And she's going around telling people that she's a Dateline person.
Yeah, like you're clearly trying to do something.
Pam was then believed to have offered Louis money to reenact a 911 call, then shot him
in order to implicate Russ in an attempt on her life.
So she wanted it to look like, again, Russ had sent this guy over and she had to shoot
him.
Yeah, now that he's out of prison, that looks bad for her because police are breathing down
her neck for the murder of Betsy.
Exactly.
So he needs to go back to jail somehow or prison.
And this was the only way she could figure out how to do that, I guess.
Exactly.
Afterwards, she would plant the knife, note, and money on Louis' body.
Several pieces of evidence were identified in this case pointing towards Pam as the perpetrator.
Family members of Louis' stated that due to his physical and mental disabilities, it
would have actually prevented him from carrying out such an act as Pam was describing.
On August 23rd, 2016, Pam Hupp was charged with first degree murder and armed criminal
action.
Upon being arrested, police would bring Pam into the station.
They would bring in some paperwork and have her sign some documents and then exit the
room.
However, officers would leave behind a ballpoint pen.
Pam, well aware that she was being recorded, can be seen feeling both sides of her neck
multiple times.
Following this, she looks around casually, before placing her hand over the pen and moving
her water bottle in front of it, obstructing its view from the camera.
She would slowly move the pen off the table and place it in the back of her pants, before
feeling her neck with her hands again.
The officers would return to the room and pass Pam off to a female officer that was
to escort her to the restroom.
Shortly after exiting the view of the camera, officers began shouting, quote, we need a
medic, Pam, Pam, Pam, Pam, talk to me, end quote.
Pam had used the pen to self inflict dozens of stab wounds to both side of her neck and
both of her wrists.
There are graphic photos online if you search this just to let everyone know.
Like it was too many to count, like dozens.
St. Charles County Assistant Prosecutor, Phil, I think it's Grown Wedge, described the act
as quote, consciousness of guilt, end quote.
How do you do that to yourself that many times?
That many times.
Like you think that your brain would tell you to stop.
Like you have that desperate though.
Pam's bail would be set at $2 million.
Wait, she survived?
Yes.
Oh, Jesus.
Oh no, she was, yeah, she was injured, but she was alive.
Yes.
After Pam was charged with this murder, the investigation to Shirley Newman's death was
reopened.
My goal, Pam's brother, would reiterate that he believed Shirley's death was accidental.
David Matthew Levy attempted to get a subpoena for the location of Pam's cell phone at the
time of her mother's death, but was unsuccessful.
Detective Levy also attempted to organize forensic tests on the balcony railing, but
he could not get anyone to agree to this either.
There was only just a very big shoe print on the side of that railing.
A retired homicide detective would suggest around this time that one of the bars at
Shirley's apartment looked quote, kicked out, end quote.
Like you just said.
After the interviews with Chris Hayes, he would receive an anonymous letter stating,
quote, dear sirs, I think it's getting a little silly that you keep accusing someone
of killing their parent when it's not true, end quote.
Just like, okay, okay, Pam, Pam, just go ahead and tell us.
It's just a variety of slips, sorry.
Don't be dramatic.
But seriously, like, I don't know who, we don't know who sent the letter, but someone's
like, it's Pam.
Hey, stepped in looking into the death of someone, the mom aside of someone.
Just stopped looking.
Signed Pam.
Yeah.
And then just crosses it out again.
A rust.
She's really bad at writing letters.
On December 16th, 2016, a grand jury indicted Pam on the charges of the murder of Lewis.
On January 31st, 2017, Pam would appear in court and pleaded not guilty.
Also in January of 2017, Judge Minemeyer was suspended by the Supreme Court of Missouri
for misconduct unrelated to the Feria case.
Which so it's like, hilarious.
In March of 2017, prosecutors announced that they would seek the death penalty in the Lewis
Grumpenberger case due to the apparently arbitrary choice of Lewis as the victim.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because he clearly, the fact that she's like, he chased me inside.
Well, if he's has severe mental and physical disabilities, that's probably not likely.
Yeah, it's probably could have just shut the door.
The trial would go dormant for nearly a year, just awaiting sentencing.
In May of 2018, 11th Circuit Court Judge John Cunningham ruled that prosecutors could not
present evidence in the Lewis case relating to the death of Shirley Newman.
So they weren't going to bring up anything about Shirley during the trial.
Yeah, separate instances.
In the following month, however, Judge Cunningham ruled that prosecutors could present evidence
relating to the killing of Betsy Feria.
In August of 2018, Pam's trial was officially set for June of 2019.
Also in August of 2018, both Judge Minnemeyer and Leah Aske were voted out of office due
to the mishandling of the murder case and trial of Betsy Feria.
Yeah.
And you were having an affair.
With every person that participated in Russ's trial.
The decision to originally not investigate Pam was widely criticized, and a former employee
of the prosecutor's office would state about this quote, there were several of us that
kept thinking, why are we not pursuing Pam Hupp?
They were just locked down on Russ.
And quote, they got the blinders on, you know, yeah.
And June 2019, Pam Hupp would enter an Alfred plea to the murder of Lewis, waving her right
to a jury trial.
If you guys aren't familiar with that and Alfred is you're not pleading guilty, but
you're not pleading not guilty, you're just kind of like neutral.
It's not necessarily a no contest, like that would be a no contest.
It's that you're admitting that we're acknowledging the fact that there is evidence that could
convict you of that crime.
So instead of going through the process, you're like, yeah, right.
You kind of got me.
Yeah, I'm not going to admit it.
True.
As a condition of her plea, Pam did not face the death penalty.
During the trial, Lincoln County prosecuting attorney Mike Wood announced that he would
be reopening the Betsy Ferriero homicide investigation.
Pam Hupp would be sentenced to life in prison without parole in August of 2019 for the murder
of Lewis.
And a phone call to her husband, Mark, because they're still married.
Oh, my God.
I don't want to.
I forget about Mark this whole time.
Pam stated that she pleaded guilty so her family would not have to quote, witness an
ugly trial and quote.
It just wouldn't be a deal that narcissism like, well, I just put it guilty because it
was easier for everyone.
I did the heroic thing by not having a message.
It would just take too much time and effort on my part to be there.
So yeah, I forgot about Mark.
Yeah, I want to put you guys through that.
Is he all like, they're like, hey, where's all this money going?
He's like, we don't talk about finances.
We don't talk about Bruno.
She handles the finances.
Yeah.
I don't, you know, I just lay at home and, you know, arguably they probably had, I mean,
good money.
They own their own business and stuff.
They probably didn't even realize when they had extra money.
Yeah.
In October of 2019, Mike Wood requested a case review by the major case squad of Greater
St. Louis.
Also in October of 2019, Louis's mother Margaret Birch filed a lawsuit for a wrongful death,
fraud and misrepresentation against the incarcerated Pam.
In March of 2020, Russ would receive a settlement in his civil rights case worth over $2 million.
And he lost four years of his life.
In July of 2020, Margaret would be awarded judgment of $3 million.
Her attorney, Gary Berger, subsequently filed to garnish Pam's prison trust account into
which her COVID relief money was placed.
Oh well.
So they're like, oh, no, you don't get that.
Sorry.
In September of 2020, Mark Hupp would file for divorce from Pam, describing their marriage
as irretrievably broken, quote unquote.
Well, good.
I mean, I took him long enough.
Yeah.
The same month as this, Pam filed a motion to vacate her conviction, claiming that she
was pressured to take a plea deal, but it was denied less than six months later.
Oh my gosh.
Like, they just pressure me to this point.
Can't you just go away and be quiet?
No, for real.
Like, go away and be quiet.
You destroyed lives.
In February of 2021, Mike Wood stated that the COVID pandemic had slowed the investigation,
but that he expected, quote, significant announcements, end quote, in the summer or fall.
On July 8th, 2021, Pam was interviewed in connection with the murder of Betsy Faria for
the first time.
Hmm.
I don't have that interview.
On July 12th, 2021, Pam Hupp was charged with first degree murder in relation to Betsy
Faria and with armed criminal action.
So she did it.
I was, I was letting you believe it was a rust.
I'm sorry, she did it.
Poor rust.
I know.
Court documents filed by Wood asserted that Pam murdered Betsy for financial gain, and
he stated that he would be seeking the death penalty due to the quote, heinousness and
depravity and quote of the crime.
Yeah.
It was absolutely heinous to be stabbed 55 fucking times.
Your wrist cut to the bone.
That's, oh my gosh.
And you left a knife in your neck.
Yeah.
And then it is completely, what do you say, the depravity of it?
Yeah, it was desperate because she's like, the only reason she did it was for money.
Yeah.
For sure.
The prosecution alleged that Pam repeatedly stabbed Betsy while she was asleep on the
couch, then removed her socks and used them to spread blood all over the house to try
to give the impression of domestic violence before placing them back on her feet.
Not all over the house like we explained earlier, but in that general area to make it look like
it was like a big struggle.
Right.
After hearing about this, Betsy and Russ's two daughters would publicly apologize to
Russ.
Prosecutor Mike Wood would also state that he would be investigating potential prosecutorial
misconduct in the original murder investigation, stating it had been quote, mismanaged from
the beginning and quote, and driven by confirmation bias against Russ, which is so true.
I agree.
Yeah.
He also suggested that the actions by investigators and prosecutors concerned could constitute
gross negligence or quote, calculated criminal behavior and quote, which is also true.
Yeah.
He further suggested that by the time of Russ's second trial, Lincoln County prosecutors were
acting to protect their own civil liability rather than seeking justice.
This among many other wrongdoings are things that led police to suggest that several law
enforcement personnel could face criminal charges based on this trial.
Hell yeah.
As they should.
Yeah, they should.
In July of 2021, Pam entered a plea of not guilty and on September 8th, 2021, the armed
criminal action charge against Pam was dismissed because she already had one.
We already got her.
A preliminary hearing was scheduled for February of 2022, but was delayed indefinitely after
Pam's public defender died of a heart attack.
It's weird.
It wasn't her.
It was just a coincidence.
Oh, okay.
I think.
In March of 2022, Pam and Mark's divorce would be finalized, and in August of 2022, Pam
waived her right to a preliminary hearing.
In October of 2022, the venue of Pam's trial was moved to ensure a fair jury pool.
In October of 2023, the Lincoln County Prosecutor's Office announced that it would refile the case
to petition to a closer venue.
That was yesterday.
It was.
In February of 2024.
That was yesterday too.
Mike Wood filed a motion with the Lincoln County Circuit Court declaring the state's
intention to pursue the death penalty due to quote, the statutory aggravating circumstance
that the murder was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible, inhumane, and that it involved
the depravity of the mind and quote.
Now Pam Hupp is still serving her sentence at the Chilikov Correctional Center in Chilikov,
Missouri.
There's really not anything out there about Pam's suggested mental state.
Although she did try to take her own life.
I think that was more about pride than anything else.
She didn't want to be publicly scrutinized.
But yeah, that's the story of Pam Hupp.
She's still awaiting sentencing for Betsy's death.
But never been tried for her own mother.
Still an accidental death.
What?
Ruling, yeah.
No, I don't believe it.
Isn't that a wild story?
That is a wild story.
For Russ, man.
I feel so bad for her.
She definitely has, again, some type of personality disorder that has narcissistic tendencies.
In my opinion, there's that other lady recently that she was on trial for starving or murdering
her child.
She was starving him in a closet and stuff.
The entire time she's being interviewed during her while she's on the stand, it's like everything
is someone else's fault.
I just didn't think it.
He was in there just stealing food.
What was I not supposed to put a lock on the fridge?
I pay for that food.
It's like, are you like...
People are ridiculous with their...
That's the same word we've been using this whole time as ridiculous.
You're playing this up because you believe it, right?
And so you're trying to make it so dramatic so that like, why would she be so dramatic
about it if it wasn't true?
Right.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Point the finger somewhere else.
But yeah, it's just an awful story.
Any other thoughts on her mental?
I don't know.
I think you're right with the personality disorder.
I don't want to say antisocial just based on like, all of the connections she was able
to make.
But yeah, narcissistic, at least narcissistic tendencies.
I don't know if it's necessarily narcissistic personality disorder.
It might have just been...
I don't know.
She just...
Obviously a lot of financial gain.
And then when she realized she was potentially in trouble, she needed a fall guy, right?
And so that's why she killed Louis and made it look like it was Russ's doing.
And yeah, I don't know.
I just can't believe that she was running around doing all this while she was married
to Mark.
Yeah, she was married to Mark the whole time.
Oh gosh.
And yeah, the whole like, it was self defense.
Like, you know, she just plays this innocent lady.
You know what?
I didn't do anything wrong.
I was trying to help Betsy by, you know, her hose.
Oh, by the way, Pam wrote that email just to let you know.
Oh yeah, I figured it.
I'm sure you figured it, but I forgot to put it in.
Sincerely, Pam.
I mean, Russell.
So yeah, they had realized that she wrote the email from Betsy's computer, but I think
that she had written the email and then sent it to herself and then copied and pasted it
because it showed that the email was written on a word software that wasn't installed
on Betsy's computer.
It was written on like a newer version of Word that had not yet been installed on Betsy's
computer.
Oh, that's funny.
Yeah.
And then those pictures of the, they said that the camera wasn't working or whatever.
Yeah.
I'm not sure it was pictures that resembled Pam in the area.
It was her area.
Yeah.
Tiptoeing inside.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's pretty much all I have for today.
I have a lot of case.
Thank you, Andrea.
Yeah.
So yeah, for suggesting that one, that is wild.
Yeah.
Really great.
Not great case, but just really interesting.
I don't think that, I really don't think that Shirley's death is ever really going to
be old or anything else.
There's just not enough there.
And the insistence on the brother, I don't know if it's denial or if he is trying to
cover for something else.
Yeah.
Like if he knows that it's Pam, he doesn't want her to get in trouble or he truly like
just isn't denial that it might have been a murder.
Yeah.
Well, nobody wants to admit that, right?
That like that's something that happened to your loved one.
So I don't know.
That's hard.
Well, thank you guys for joining us for another case.
Thanks, Andrea, for the suggestion.
Keep those coming.
I have a whole list going.
So I have everyones written down.
But that's all I guess until Monday with another mental breakdown.
We will see you then.
I'm starving and I stink.
Same.
All right.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
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