Hello! Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm Kenna. How's it going?
It's going okay. I had a bit of a rough time today.
Just all of a sudden, not feeling well.
I ate some weird typhoon the other day.
And I remember, as I was eating it, it's one of those things you're like,
hmm, this tastes kinda funky, but it's not so funky that you're like,
it's gonna be bad, you know?
I can't do that. If I feel like it's passable, I'm like, that's not good enough.
No, I agree. And I used to kind of just look past it,
but this time I was like, no. And I took like three or four big bites
and I was like, I'm throwing it away, but those three or four bites
still made my stomach hurt. But it wasn't to the point of throwing up.
So I think it just affected me today, because it's like a couple days later.
It's really unfortunate, because I love that typhoise.
I love really good. They have some of the best crab rangoons, although I don't do dairy,
but not anymore. But yeah, their crab rangoons are so good.
They're lightly fried, very lightly.
I can't stand the ones that are like really thick, you know, like hard to eat.
There used to be a place down, well, not that the listeners know where Blanco is,
but down on Blanco, and they're, I forgot what they were called,
but they had some of the best crab rangoons, but they were sweet.
They had like honey in them. Oh my gosh, they were so good.
But they had really thick, like, wonton wrappers too.
But yeah, I don't know, they were just really good.
They were the exception to the rule. It was almost like a pastry, instead of just
like a dumpling.
Yeah, I've been getting into Thai food more recently.
I used to not really, not that I didn't ever like not like it, but I never not liked it.
I don't know how to say that, but I just didn't really eat it enough, I guess.
Yeah, it's my favorite food of all time.
Thai food is my favorite food. I've always wanted to go to Thailand.
Elephants are my favorite animals.
I love it. I just, yeah. And I have different Thai restaurants in San Antonio
that I go to for different things. Like one place I'll get red curry, then another place I'll get green curry,
then the next place I'll get, you know, tam yum, and then, you know, yeah.
They all have differing flavors.
I haven't eaten dinner yet, we gotta stop talking about food.
Anyway, yeah, so that was my day, but hopefully it'll pass by tomorrow and everything will be good.
What about you?
Well, you know, I had a little rough in my feels kind of a few days, but I'm coming out of it, you know,
and I always get that feeling, not feeling, but I have to remind myself like this is temporary,
like I'm not gonna feel this way all the time.
So I was telling Kenna yesterday that, you know, she was doing all this stuff for the merch,
for the live coming up tomorrow and, or on Friday, and yeah, I was just like,
I feel like I've accomplished nothing.
Like my biggest accomplishments yesterday were watching my son perform in a performance,
and then the second best thing that I did yesterday was eat an impossible whopper.
There you go.
Those were my accomplishments yesterday.
You fed yourself, you got out of bed.
Those are accomplishments in my book.
That all being said, I'm glad that you're feeling a little bit better.
Just on that same note, we made some really cute koozies for the merch.
It's gonna be a new koozy drop.
I made them, I made like, I think 15 of them.
Oh my gosh, they're so cute.
We've been talking about doing some mental breakdown merch,
and I'm really excited to show you guys that tomorrow,
as well as like Kowal said, a bunch of other merch items.
So make sure to check us out on what not on Friday the 8th at 6pm central time.
I think we're gonna hang out for maybe like two hours, maybe a little bit longer.
Yeah, we're just gonna chat about merch, give us your suggestions.
You wanna ask us questions about the podcast, feel free.
And if you haven't already, click that link, it's in our link tree.
You get $15 off just by using that link.
It's like basically a free shirt.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, that's all I got, I think.
Yeah, we'll have, so far right now, if you go to our what not profile,
and you go to the buy it now section, you'll see all of our new merch items on there.
And I mean new, buy as I'm never used.
That's not gonna be our upcycle stuff, that is gonna be brand new stuff.
We also have the koozies on there in the buy it now that you can purchase now ahead of time.
We have limited supply on a few of those items, so if you wanna grab them, grab them now.
Otherwise, I think we're gonna just be doing upcycle stuff for auction.
So essentially the way that it works is it's kind of like a live eBay,
where you go, you're essentially watching a live stream,
and then you input all your information, your card information, your shipping information,
and you casually shop, it's kind of like an, what is it, like a HGTV?
Is that what it is?
I don't know.
At Home and Garden.
You know, one of those like shopping.
Oh, like catalog?
Yeah, shows.
So it's kind of like that.
So we will just be essentially showing you the merchandise,
and if you're interested in something, we just automatically input it into the auction tab thing.
We'll run the auction.
It usually lasts anywhere from like 10 seconds to 30 seconds,
and you guys can just bid on it.
If you guys wanna throw a little extra you can on there.
I think there's also like a tip option.
If you don't feel like any merch items, you can just tip us for our...
Human.
Human and hard work.
Well, we're also gonna be doing dollar bracelets starts,
and the way that that works is that every bracelet is a dollar.
We'll just run it.
You just swipe your little thingy to say, yeah, I accept this auction,
and then you guys can all bid each other if you want.
It's a lot of fun, and it's all like with talking and connecting and things like that.
It's so much fun.
I'm so excited.
I'm really excited.
This will be my first time hosting one of those,
but I've seen you host multiple for a different platform many a time.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's gonna be awesome.
We hope to see you guys there.
Well, I'm excited to see who you're doing today.
I've been trying to guess it, and I've been guessing wrong.
Sure.
Do you want to give everybody our handles?
Sure.
You can follow us anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer.
You can follow us on Twitter, or now X, at Killer Diagnosis.
We do have a website, DiagnosingAKiller.com.
There you will find links to resources, some of our merch items as well,
and as well as information for the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival
that is happening in July and Denver, the 12th through the 14th.
It is my birthday weekend.
Come see us.
Yes.
I got 15% off those tickets, like I said, for using our code, D-A-K.
I just slammed my elbow into the wall.
I heard that.
I was like, what was that?
And if you'd like access to some extra content, go to patreon.com.
Slot's Diagnosing a Killer.
Our tier two and three Patrons get an extra bonus episode every month,
and they actually got two for the month of February.
Ad free, content warning free, big all-away episodes.
Yeah.
That's it.
Ready?
Yes.
Today, we're gonna be talking about Michelle Carter.
Oh, shit.
You didn't do this one, did you?
No, I didn't do this one, but now I'm thinking I might be...
It's on your left.
Conrad?
Yes.
Okay, that's...
I was thinking of Michelle Conrad.
I was like, that's not the right person.
That's not the person.
Oh my gosh, what a case.
It's horrible.
Content warning, this episode discusses the topics of self-harm, eating disorders,
severe depression and anxiety, and ultimately suicide.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember that your mental health comes first and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Oh my gosh, I'm not ready.
This case breaks my heart.
It's really sad.
It's awful.
Michelle Diana Carter was born August 11th, 1996 in Plainville, Massachusetts, to her
parents, Gail and David Carter.
David was a sales manager for a forklift company, and Gail would come to work with real-estate
agents, staging properties for show for open houses.
Michelle had one younger sister named Hayden.
However, an exact age is unknown since she was little.
I love Hayden for a girl I think.
Me too.
Oh my gosh, me and Clif started watching that American Horror Story the first season.
Hayden's the, what's his face's, girlfriend.
Dylan McDermott's girlfriend.
Dylan, he gets pregnant?
Oh my god.
I haven't seen that.
Season one?
Season one, yeah.
The Murder House.
Maybe Fall in Love with Evan Peters.
Maybe Fall in Love with Dylan McDermott again.
The family moved into the haunted house.
Yeah, I remember the whole thing.
And the reason they moved is because he was having an affair with his client or something.
And then she shows up on the doorstep and it turns out she's pregnant.
It's like, oh fuck.
And when they leave and she can't leave the house because the daughter can't leave the
house anymore, they're like, come with us and they put her in the car and they drive
away and she's in the window.
Spoiler alert.
That came out like 15 years ago.
And I love that I'm in love with Kim Kardashian's in this last season.
Yeah.
And they did like a half season break.
So now it's been like months and the second part of the season hasn't come out yet.
Oh my god.
And it's actually really good.
I love when they cast like major celebrities.
Oh yeah, Lady Gaga was in one.
Yeah.
That was hotel.
I never, I just said that and I was like, I didn't care for hotel.
We're getting off on two minutes.
Sorry.
Michelle and Hayden seem to have a typical home life.
Their parents worked hard and the girls would want for nothing.
Michelle seemed to be a pretty well adjusted young woman being described by her parents
as quiet, kind and sympathetic.
That is until about middle school and high school age.
Michelle and her mother would often get into disagreements and rarely saw eye to eye on
things, especially when it came to Michelle's social interactions with others.
I feel like that's kind of typical like teenage girl behavior though.
I think so too.
Yeah, that was me.
Yeah.
I mean, it wasn't me, but I saw you guys do it and I didn't want to do it because it's
like that's not going to end well for me if I try that shit.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think that there's, you know, I was just having this conversation with Cliff the
other day.
I was like, my child will resent me one day.
Like that is this circle of life, you know.
It's terrible.
Michelle on the surface seemed to get along with her peers.
However, her peers found Michelle to be odd and would say that Michelle did not usually
find deeper, more meaningful connections with other students outside of school.
So just kind of like surface level.
Yeah, that her friendships were often superficial and they never spent time with her outside
of school, like going to movies or anything like that.
Oh, got it.
Often other girls would make up excuses for not hanging out with Michelle.
They're like, oh, did I tell you that day?
Oh, it got canceled or oh, yeah, no, you can't come to that party.
My mom's really weird about certain people.
Yeah, or it's like, hey mom, can I go spend the night at So-and-So's and you're looking
at your mom like, say no, say no, say no.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Oh, who hasn't done that?
I've done that for sure.
Or like text someone and like call me in feign in emergency so I can come home.
I did that one.
I told Cameron to call me one time and pretend like she needed me home and Cameron like,
you know, drama queen took it to this whole, kind of get the fuck home right now.
You're so much trauma on this piece.
All the she's that has an acting opportunity.
Exactly.
I had her on speaker.
I was like, damn, she really shit.
She puts.
However, there was one friendship that seemed to deepen.
Michelle was looking for a way to connect with others and become more widely accepted.
So she joined the softball team in high school.
Not I don't think it was in high school.
I think it was it was during her high school years, but it was a softball team.
Not at the school.
Okay.
Here she met a girl known only as Alice.
Alice and Michelle became fast friends.
The two would often spend time together outside of school, like going to the movies, going
shopping and staying the night at each other's houses.
But after sometime during the friendship, Alice would be going to become uncomfortable around
Michelle.
Alice would come to believe that Michelle had had a crush on her to which Alice did not
reciprocate.
Alice would notice that the friendship resembled more of that of a relationship.
Michelle would ask Alice to sneak around with her at night.
She would sometimes get jealous of other friends and in general become clingy and even sometimes
texting obsessively.
Like, where are you at?
What are you doing?
Where are you?
I have been dating some girls who are like that.
Not recently, but in high school, you know, I've had some girls that treated me like
that and it was kind of like, okay, just homies, you know, like, it's not the wrong idea.
Honestly, it did drive me away.
I didn't really want to hang out with them anymore because it made me uncomfortable.
Yeah, you feel pressured into the friendship more than just wanting to be that person's
friend.
Exactly.
Michelle would write to another peer about this relationship, quote, I thought it was
a phase at first.
Like, thought we were really good friends, but we started talking like a relationship
would flirting and stuff and quote.
So this is Michelle telling another girl, like, she's my girlfriend, essentially.
So yes, Michelle may have been inflating her relationship with Alice to others, like calling
her her girlfriend and stuff.
Realizing that Michelle felt this way, Alice decided to confide in her mother that she
felt uncomfortable and was encouraged by her mother to end the friendship with Michelle,
which she did.
Michelle became noticeably depressed after this.
She began to self harm and she had difficulties with eating.
Michelle often felt outcasted and in an effort to become more popular, she would often refuse
to eat or skip meals in order to lose weight.
Michelle's parents noticed a difference in their daughter's behavior and would seek
professional help for her.
Michelle would be prescribed cytolopram, cytolopram.
Cetylopram.
Cetylopram, also known as Cilexa.
In 2012, Michelle's family decided to spend some time in Florida for family gathering,
Michelle being 16 at the time.
One night while walking along the beach, she would come across a young man by the name
of Conrad Roy.
Conrad Roy is such a cool first name.
I know.
That's my ex-husband's middle name.
Oh yeah.
Oh my gosh, really quick.
Sorry, speaking of him, did you see the post that he made about your son earlier?
Oh, you don't have Facebook.
Oh gosh, he posted that, this is like earlier today, he posted that when he got his phone
back or whatever, your son had made him a playlist like, oh, dad's playlist or whatever,
like dad's new songs or whatever.
I did hear that.
And his dad was like, oh, that's so sweet.
He's like, I almost got choked up or whatever.
And he clicked on it because it was 24 hours of Rick Astley's never going to give you up.
Like that kid is a genius.
He's trying to troll him.
He's a Rick Roll disaster.
He's only eight.
Yeah, he's only eight.
He knows how to Rick Roll people.
He was doing that in the car.
He was singing some theme song like, oh, oh, oh, oh Riley's or whatever.
And he kept doing it, kept doing it.
It was like baby.
I was like, please.
He's like, would you rather me sing never going to give you up?
Oh my gosh.
Over.
Oh, I got you.
So funny.
Conrad Roy, the third was born at September 12, 1995.
And I think it's Madapoisette, Madapoisette, Massachusetts to his parents, Conrad Jr. and
Len Roy.
So Conrad, the young man that we're going to be talking about is a third, but his dad
is also a Conrad.
So Conrad's father, grandfather and uncle all worked for the same family business, which
was Tucker Roy, Marine, Toeing and Salvage, Incorporated.
That's got to be confusing.
All of them are named Conrad.
Except for the brother.
They're all Roy's.
Yeah, their last names are all Roy too.
Their job was to salvage and tow sunken or broken down vessels, specializing in trickier
or more dangerous jobs, which I found really interesting.
That is interesting.
It's like one of those odd jobs, you know, that you don't really know about.
And especially to like build a business from the ground up.
That's kind of like a unique thing to want to do.
Conrad was not the kind of kid to struggle making friends.
He had an infectious slough and was described as a sweet and charming young man.
He was also described by his own mother as being a beautiful and happy child.
Conrad was constantly on the honor roll.
He participated in various school sports, including baseball and track.
Conrad was also incredibly talented and bright.
And in telling you this, his problems were not outside of the home, but instead inside
of the home.
Conrad's father would sometimes become enraged, taking his anger out on his family.
On occasion, these outbursts would also become physical.
Especially to Conrad as he was the eldest of three and the only boy in the house.
He had two younger sisters.
Yeah, that's unfortunate, but that's usually how we see it happen.
Yeah.
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In 2011, police were called to the Roy home after a domestic violence incident.
Lynn Roy would be arrested on domestic violence charges, but would ultimately not be convicted.
The mom?
Mm-hmm.
Lynn Roy was found to have left bruises on his father.
Conrad began to withdraw more and more as time went on.
As Conrad's depression worsened, his parents would have him attend behavioral therapies,
group therapies, and ultimately he would be diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and
clinical depression.
I mean, yeah, even being exposed indirectly to abuse like that is really detrimental for
your mental health growing up.
Yeah, it makes sense with the social anxiety just because like how do you speak?
How do you communicate your feelings when you know what's going on, you know?
Or you're afraid like everyone else outside of that is just gonna, you know, snap, you
know, any second.
Right, exactly.
Conrad would ultimately be described Cetylopram, also known as Cilexa.
So they were both prescribed the same thing.
Okay.
However, no amount of medication would help resolve the discourse still going on in the
Roy household.
Needing a vacation, the family traveled down to Florida in 2012 to visit with other family
members and it was here that 17-year-old Conrad would meet 16-year-old Michelle Carter.
After learning that they didn't live that far from each other, I think they were only
like an hour away from one another.
The two would spend the vacation essentially inseparable, going on bike rides and getting
ice cream together.
They would exchange information after this trip and once home began texting regularly.
The two would bond over their shared experiences with depression and keep each other company
in ways that the people around them in their everyday lives couldn't.
Michelle began to become very attached to Conrad, even at points telling her classmates
that this was her boyfriend.
Okay.
Even though it was an official.
Yeah, seen this before.
Yeah.
Michelle's especially seemed interested that Michelle had had this secret long distance
relationship with an older mysterious boy.
Sounds like Martha Beck.
Yeah.
Oh, he died.
He died.
Don't worry.
Yeah, Peter.
As they, oh my God, I just remembered that that guy threw himself off of that bridge
after she said she was pregnant, remember?
That's terrible.
That's awful.
He threw himself into a bay.
Yeah.
Sorry.
That was Lonely Hearts.
Lonely Hearts killers, Raymond, Fernandez and Martha Beck.
I just re-listened to it recently.
That's why it's fresh out the noggin.
Yeah.
Fresh out the noggin.
So yes, as the girls had only seen her as a weirdo in an outcast before, this afforded
Michelle with a lot of new attention.
Yeah, she's getting popular.
Yeah, she craved it.
In October 2012, after having found out that his parents intended to file for divorce, Conrad
came to the conclusion that his life was only getting harder for him.
He constantly worried and had anxiety, and it was entirely too much for him to handle
any longer.
Conrad took an entire bottle of over-the-counter medication in an attempt to take his own life.
I did not know that.
The only person that he told was a young girl that he had met while in group therapy, and
she did the right thing by immediately contacting police.
Good for her.
When Michelle couldn't get a hold of Conrad that day, she became extremely worried.
She knew of Conrad's past with his depression, and was afraid that he had in fact done something
to himself.
Michelle would bring up Conrad's absence to her classmates, who were all more than willing
to be there for Michelle when they learned that something serious might have happened.
Once again, Michelle would take great satisfaction in this attention.
But you know, if I can just imagine it, it's not her being like, I can't get a hold of
Conrad, I'm really worried that something's happened.
It's probably like, he probably killed himself.
Like, give me attention, he probably did something to himself.
I don't know what I'm going to do without him, like, you know, all this stuff.
I mean, it's the most exaggeratory of what, even though that was the case, he attempted
to do that.
I just feel like she wouldn't have been discreet in that.
Right.
Soon, she would be contacted by Conrad, who then confessed to her that he did in fact
try to take his own life.
Michelle was beside herself as she loved Conrad, and couldn't understand why he wouldn't
come to her when he needed something like in his time of need.
Which again is like, spinner of attention, why didn't you come to me?
It's like, well, we've met once, you know.
Conrad further explained that his deep depression in the hostile living situation brought on
by his father and his mother's inability to get along, or it was rather.
His parents would ultimately separate Conrad and his sisters spending on and off time with
their father, but Conrad especially stayed close with his dad, visiting more often than
his sisters.
However, the arguing in Conrad Roy at Junior's home escalated once again with the police
being called.
This altercation resulted in markings and bruises that were left on Conrad, the third.
These marks and bruises were caused by a physical altercation between Conrad and his father.
Not much is known about the details regarding this incident, however, as it has never been
released by the state of Massachusetts.
All of their domestic violence reports are kept private in order to keep victims safe.
That's awesome.
It's really cool.
Because that's usually like the most dangerous time to leave a domestic violence situation
is when you break it off, and especially after you file legal stuff.
But what we do know is that no one was convicted of any crime regarding this incident.
Michelle was once again by Conrad's side to hear his story of what transpired, and once
again she was not shy with telling her classmate about his struggles.
Like it's his fucking private information.
Like shut up.
No, but she's like, oh he's in this terrible situation with his family, and like his family
hates him and you know all this stuff.
I just wish I could be there.
Making someone else's trauma your trauma.
Yeah, exactly.
That is like the worst.
That's gross.
Even so, Michelle encouraged Conrad to continue to get professional help, often telling Conrad
that things would eventually get better.
Conrad seemed to make somewhat of a change.
He focused on graduating and his schooling and was able to bring his grades back up.
He would graduate with a 3.88 GPA.
Wow.
It's like, it's pretty impressive.
Yeah, it's almost perfect.
That's what I have right now.
I just say, ooh.
I had the pepper that in there.
And in early spring 2014, he was able to actually earn his captain's license and was looking
forward to working with his father in the family business.
Cool.
So he learned how to like be a boat captain.
That's awesome.
So cool.
His grandfather had gifted him a truck to get around, and he was also even accepted
to Fitchburg State University come the fall.
Fitchburg.
Even with all of these achievements, Conrad still could not get a hold of his depression.
He began making video blogs and an effort to voice his feelings, and he used this as
a type of therapy because he felt completely unjudged by doing so.
Yeah.
I mean, he's trying.
Like he really is.
He's reaching out.
He's asking for help.
Yeah.
In these videos, Conrad says, quote, for me, social anxiety feels like it's overwhelming
my life.
The first thing I want to do is be more proactive in a social environment, try to contribute
to the conversation as well, as I can just be more confident in myself.
End quote.
He goes on to say, quote, there's people that love me.
I have a great mom, great dad for the most part, but I'm so depressed.
I feel like I am differently wired from everyone else.
Like there's something wrong with me.
What I am doing is looking at myself so negatively.
I look at myself so minuscule, little particle on the face of the earth, no good trash.
I will never be successful, never have known life, never have kids, never, never learn,
end quote.
It's like you can tell that he's capable of being introspective.
And he really is recognizing his feelings and he's expressing them.
So why the fuck isn't he getting the help that he needs?
Is he in therapy or is he just on medication?
I think he's still in counseling.
He's on medication still, but I just feel like in my opinion, I feel like no matter
the amount of therapy or medication can fix what's going on in the home.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I think that the people that really needed to benefit from therapy is his mom and dad.
The whole family.
The whole family therapy.
So I feel like he's really good at expressing all of these things on a platform like social
media and maybe not out loud in therapy when he's there or in the home.
It's true.
And I think that's what it is.
It makes sense that he has social anxiety, so he wouldn't always vocalize it to another
human being.
He would vocalize it through a video.
And maybe that's why it's easy for him and Michelle to communicate is because he's texting.
He's not making phone calls and having to be in person all the time.
Yeah, that's true.
He also says, however, seemingly in opposition, quote, I have a lot to offer someone.
I'm introverted, nice and caring with some benefits and I'm a nice kid and quote.
On July 12th, 2014, Conrad woke up and asked his mother and his sisters if they would like
to go to the beach for the day.
While walking along the beach with his mother, Conrad told her that he felt conflicted about
what his future held.
Did he go to college full time or should he work in the water full time with his dad?
Lynn reassured her son that there's plenty of time to do both, that he didn't have to
make the decision right away.
Abruptly, Conrad walked over to the failing vehicle in order to use the phone.
Lynn did find it odd that he sort of just walked away and stayed in the car for some
time.
But either way, Conrad would return and ask his mother if he could take the girls out
for ice cream.
The four went and came back home.
Lynn remembers that she was doing the dishes in the kitchen while Conrad and her finished
up their previous conversation.
Eventually, Conrad went upstairs to his room, but after some time, Lynn heard Conrad come
back downstairs.
Conrad, rushing past her, quickly shouted goodbye to his mother but would ultimately leave without
hugging or kissing his mom goodbye.
The all these details are not a good sign.
Hours later, Conrad Roy would be found on his truck in the store's parking lot.
He had placed a generator in his truck and left it running, causing him to die by carbon
monoxide poisoning.
Later that night, Lynn and Conrad Jr. were informed that Conrad had in fact taken his
own life.
Conrad's funeral was held just a week later.
Michelle would attend Conrad's service, and this would be one of the only times Lynn
Roy would see Michelle in person.
Lynn would find it very odd that Michelle talked so deeply about Conrad, as Lynn rarely
heard Conrad ever talk about Michelle.
Michelle would also break the news to her classmates that Conrad had in fact passed
away.
This too yielded a lot of attention from Michelle's classmates.
Months would go by, and the Roy family was still very much healing from the tragedy of
losing their son, brother, grandchild, and friend Conrad.
Investigators however, were hard at work uncovering disturbing messages that were found on Conrad's
phone, which was with him at the scene.
Text messages were exchanged between Michelle and Conrad.
Do you want to be Conrad?
Sure.
Okay.
Me, Michelle.
Quote, I think your parents know you're in a really bad place.
I'm not saying they want you to do it, but I honestly feel like they can accept it.
They know there's nothing they can do.
They've tried helping.
Everyone's tried, but there is a point that comes where there isn't anything anyone can
do to save you, not even yourself.
And you've hit that point, and I think your parents know you've hit that point.
You said your mom saw a suicide thing on your computer and she didn't say anything.
I think she knows it's on your mind and she's prepared for it.
Everyone will be sad for a while, but they will get over it and move on.
They won't be in depression.
I won't let that happen.
They know how sad you are and they know that you are doing this to be happy, and I think
they will understand and accept it.
They will always carry you in their hearts.
Your turn.
Aw, thank you, Michelle.
They will move on for you because they know that's what you would have wanted.
They know you wouldn't want them to be sad and depressed and be angry and guilty.
They know that you want them to live their lives and be happy, so they will for you.
You're right.
You have to stop thinking about this and just do it because overturning always kills overthinking.
Yeah, it does.
I've been thinking about it for too long.
Always smile and yeah, you have to just do it.
You have everything you need.
There's no way you can fail.
Tonight's the night.
It's now or never.
This is so infuriating.
Every time I hear it, I just get more and more fucking pissed off.
Like, fuck you.
Smile.
Just remember to smile.
I'll take care of your family.
Like, that was really loud and noise, sorry.
Like what the fuck?
Yeah.
Fucking, she wanted the attention for him doing that.
Furthermore, Michelle gave Conrad step-by-step instructions on how to kill himself, saying
quote, yeah, it will work if you emit 2,300 ppm of it or five to 10 minutes, you will
die within half an hour.
You lose consciousness with no pain.
You just fall asleep and die.
You can also just take a hose and run that from the exhaust pipe to the rear window to
your car and seal it with duct tape and shirts so it can't escape.
You will die within like 20 to 30 minutes, all pain free.
So she's over here fucking googling shit.
She's telling him how to do it.
That is so fucking gross.
Like, how could you think about that?
Then type it out and then hit send.
Like, I don't understand.
Police began to look into potential criminal charges against Michelle, but was it really
illegal to tell someone to commit suicide?
No, according to investigators, however, she would still be indicted on counts of involuntary
manslaughter.
In 2015, Michelle would see a jury in juvenile court that agreed that Michelle would be charged
with quote, wantingly and recklessly in quote, assisting a suicide.
She was just 17 at the time of her arraignment.
Michelle would waive her right to a jury and would therefore be sentenced by a judge.
During trial, the defense argued that Michelle and Conrad's texts were protected under the
First Amendment and that Conrad had a history of attempted suicides, not making her responsible
for Conrad's death.
Shut up.
However, the prosecution would reveal more incriminating texts between Michelle and another
one of her friends after Conrad's death.
Quote, his death was my fault, like honestly I could have stopped him.
I was on the phone with him and he got out of the car because it was working and he got
scared and I fucking told him to get back in, end quote.
And later, quote, I heard him die on the phone, end quote.
Like it doesn't get more fucking cut and dry than that.
I'm so mad.
Oh my god.
Like you, she literally said, it's my fault.
Yeah.
I got in the car and I told him to fucking get back in.
If, sorry, I'll let you finish and then I'll give you my thoughts.
No, it's okay.
Go ahead.
It's infuriating because I feel like if Conrad had met a decent woman and decided to start
dating a decent person, he wouldn't have ever done that because he was coaxed by someone
that was also mentally ill.
And he, like I've seen a lot of the text messages.
A lot of it suggests that he doesn't want to go through with it and it's her like inching
him and inching him and pressuring him and pressuring him.
And like he tries to back out so many times and she says, no, like if you don't do it now,
you're never going to do it.
Like all this disgusting shit.
When it could have been a young girl that was like, why would you think that that would
be the answer?
Like I'll help you through this blah, blah, blah.
And I think that he would have like thrived in that situation.
I think so too.
And it's like, what, that makes me question like what had to happen for him to meet this
girl on vacation and then this, it caused his death, you know, like that's, ugh.
And that's the thing is like when these things go to court, it is if this person had not
met this person, would they be alive?
Exactly.
Yes.
She's responsible because had they never met, he would not have, I can't say that.
Okay.
We know that.
Yeah.
Just given our personal experience, we know that.
But it certainly wouldn't have happened this way.
Yeah.
There would have been a chance that he could have survived and done, you know, gotten more
help.
But the fact that literally he has a voice in his head every day telling him to do it.
Every day.
God, that's disgusting.
She made no attempt whatsoever to contact for help for Conrad even after this, showing
that she had no intention of stopping what had occurred.
That's another thing too.
It's like she said that she heard the moment that he died.
How long did she fucking sit on the phone with him after that?
Because I'm sure she didn't immediately just fucking hang up.
No.
She probably just sat with the fucking open line for who knows how long.
Yeah.
Like that's fucking gross.
That's, yeah, that's fucking disgusting.
And I'm sure there's, I would think that that's one of the things that they probably
kept in wraps in court.
I'm sure.
And I think that it was in my mind probably her wanting to make sure that he was actually
dead instead of just hanging up when she thinks that he dies.
She's probably saying his name, asking him questions, waiting for him to respond.
And when he didn't even after so long.
She texts him too when they get off the phone.
She's like, are you still there?
And like, what nothing?
Yeah.
She just wanted to make sure.
Even after confessing this to friends, she pushed the idea that Conrad had raped or attempted
to rape her at some point.
And that's why there was encouragement there.
I gotta go.
I'm outta here.
See you later.
Love you, bye.
The prosecution said this was how powerful Michelle's thirst for attention was that she
would talk her own boyfriend into killing himself, all for the sympathy of others.
Not only that, but drag his name through the fucking mud.
Seriously.
In June of 2017, Michelle Carter would be found guilty of an voluntary manslaughter for
her failure to act appropriately in Conrad's death.
Which we know is a homicide.
If you listen to the homicide of the murder.
Still a homicide.
Before her sentencing trial in According to the Sun paper, Michelle's parents pleaded
with the court saying, quote, I prayed to God you will take into consideration that
Michelle was an extremely troubled, vulnerable teenager in an extremely difficult situation
and made a tragic mistake.
I am 100% sure that she is only trying to do what in her mind was right for Conrad.
End quote.
Go ahead and go through those text messages and pull out every single time she said the
words do it or don't give up.
Some are thinking all those things will let him do it.
I guarantee you it's in the hundreds.
And then we'll see that she really just, she's made a mistake.
She just made a tragic mistake.
She was doing what was right for Conrad.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
By convincing him to do something that he really didn't want to do.
Michelle would be sentenced to two and a half years, but her sentence would be reduced
to just 15 months.
Eventually this conviction was held up by the Supreme Court.
They took it all the way to the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court was like, hell no.
It's a very interesting and unique set of circumstances.
Especially because she's 17.
Yeah.
Lynn Roy said about this conviction, quote, I was surprised that she even got 11 months.
We had to be the voice for him.
So yes, I was satisfied that she was convicted.
I wanted to make a point that his life mattered and that was the most important thing to me.
I wish I knew how he felt when she was messaging him that whole month before Conrad died.
I wish I knew what he was thinking.
Was she really his friend?
Did she really care about him?
I mean, for someone to do what she did, how could he think that she cared?
End quote.
Lynn Roy would file a civil suit against Michelle Carter for the wrongful death of Conrad.
And the $4.2 million settlement was settled out of court.
Michelle Carter participated in several educational programs while in prison.
She attended mental health meetings and even created her own blogs about mental health,
her struggles, and her journey to get healthy mentally and physically.
She was released in January 2020 and has since been out of the public eye.
It is a part of an ongoing sentence that she will have zero contact with the Roy family,
like duh.
Since 2019, Lynn Roy and her husband have fought to get a law passed in which there
would be a mandatory five-year sentence for anyone who, quote, intentionally coerces or
encourages another individual to die by suicide or attempt to die by suicide by using physical
acts or mental coercion that manipulates a person's fears, affections, or sympathies.
End quote.
I agree.
Although that has been in review for many times, Lynn is still fighting for this new
law to be passed.
She said, quote, with this tragedy, my son would want to help other people, other families,
and if we get the law passed, when we do, that's going to be a win for me and for him.
End quote.
If passed, this new law would be referred to as Conrad's law.
Oh my gosh.
It's heavy for the entire time.
Every time I hear that case, I just get mad.
It's just infuriating.
I truly do, though.
I truly hope Michelle got the help that she needed and she is now better for it.
I truly do because I would hate for this to happen again when she got out early and all
this stuff.
She also, I mean, not another coercibility with whatever she was experiencing was also
that ED.
She had an eating disorder.
There was disorders that were going around and that's-
The ptylopram.
Ptylopram.
The ptylopram.
They said that especially under age 24 that it can cause suicidal thoughts.
Yep.
Yeah, no.
I think that there's a lot of factors that went into that and it's hard because like
I said, I get mad.
It's really easy to be like, fuck this or whatever, but yeah, you're right.
She was just a kid.
She was on medication that's known to cause mental manipulation and mental emotional distress.
I don't know.
It's a very hard case.
That being said, if you or someone you know is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts,
remember that you are not alone.
You can always reach out to the National Suicide Lifeline at 988 for information and resources
in your local area.
And of course, if you or someone you know is experiencing an emergency, always dial 911
999 or your local emergency service number.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Heavy, heavy, heavy.
That was heavy, but I don't want to say I'm glad you covered it, but-
It's needed to be covered.
I find it very interesting that it's not just about Michelle Carter and her difficulties
with mental disorders, but Conrad Roy's too.
Absolutely.
And you know, definitely, especially when you're in that, I can see how he might have
been like, someone knows my struggle.
Someone understands me to my depth with this struggle because he felt like he could actually
talk to her.
Because again, he's behind a phone screen.
And unfortunately, he confided in the wrong person.
I think so too.
You know?
Ugh, I'm so sad.
Yeah.
I know.
Do you have anything else?
That's it.
Okay, I think we're going to end here.
I know, I need a shower.
We will see you guys next week with another Mental Breakdown and be on the lookout this
Saturday for a special DAK Live.
See you tomorrow for the live.
Friday for the live.
No, Saturday.
Merch Drop Live.
Oh, the Merch Drop Live.
Yes.
And then DAK Live episode on Saturday.
Will you do me a favor?
Sure.
For this episode, will you put a picture of her really ridiculous eyebrows?
I will.
Thank you.
Okay.
Love you.
Bye.
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