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Hello!

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Oh shit.

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Already about to go to sleep.

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Love that.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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I am Kawell.

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No I'm not.

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I'm Kana.

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Oh my god.

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Often it's a strong start.

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I'm Kawell.

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This is Kana and this is DAK Live with Lainey.

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Hello.

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Hey.

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We're already embarrassing ourselves over here.

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Yeah.

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So.

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That's a professional show.

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We are extremely excited to have Lainey on.

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If you do not know Lainey is the co-founder of the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival

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that we have been lucky enough to go to once and are super excited about going to again

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this year.

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So we wanted to bring you on Lainey and just kind of chat about anything and everything

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and just kind of have a an easy episode going.

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Yeah.

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Like easy peasy.

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Well thank you for inviting me.

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First of all I'm very thankful whenever anybody reaches out and invites me to their lives.

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I don't get to do them very often but I am super appreciative.

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Yay.

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Tell us a little bit about you Lainey what you do and maybe how you got into what you're

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doing now.

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Okay well so I'm Lainey Hobbs.

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I have been a podcaster since 2016 and I started my first podcast then.

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It was called True Crime Fan Club which I then rebranded I think in 2022 to True Crime

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Cases with Lainey.

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As you can tell I am very creative in my name format for my podcast.

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And from there I kind of built this creative spark of just wanting to create more and more

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podcasts because I am a crazy person.

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So I have a paranormal podcast.

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It's called It's Haunted What Now and then a live format podcast called True Crime Convose

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which streams first on YouTube and then goes to a podcast feed afterwards and I have also

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hosted two podcasts one on Spotify, one on Acas, one on Spotify was Crime's Passion,

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True Crime Podcast and then Tracing Darkness a True Crime Podcast as well.

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I'm a voice actor and a festival co-founder.

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A bunch of stuff that I do on the side that really feels like my creative spark and stuff

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so my whole drive and mission with what I do as it relates to the podcast community is

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really building a community for independent podcasters.

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Not just True Crime podcasters although that's how initially it started for me but really

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also for any independent creator out there who's looking for resources or somebody who's

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listening going hey I want to do that I just don't know how to get started and giving them

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kind of those resources to be able to either build a community around themselves, find

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like minded creators, et cetera and how to get started because that's how I was supported

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when I first started and I like to pass along the same good energy that way.

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Absolutely.

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That was a great explanation there but that's I think kind of I mean that's how we met

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right?

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That's exactly what you did for us which is really cool.

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Being able to give us a tiny little podcast with like 8,000 downloads and get approved

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to go to this festival.

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We're really excited about it and we're about 100 downloads away from 50,000 now.

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That's amazing.

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Congratulations.

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See I think that's really wonderful honestly.

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It makes my little heart happy when I hear things like that because it demonstrates

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that the point of TCPF is to give everybody an even playing field.

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Your show means just as much in this room as somebody who has like 5 million downloads

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right and they like 50,000.

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Wow.

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You know?

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To me every milestone needs to be like celebrated so I remember when I first started it was this

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thing you would always like post like I only hit like 10,000 downloads and stuff like

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that and I was like you got to really reframe the way you're thinking that because somebody's

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looking at your numbers going man I wish I hit that.

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You know even 100 like there are people who are getting just 10 downloads like just 10

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downloads in a month right.

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Maybe because their podcast isn't easily discoverable and as you guys know entering within the true

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crime you know creation space is it's super saturated with creators you know a new true

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crime podcast either from a network or from an independent creator is popping up literally

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every day so you have to find a way to stand out and part of that is within the content

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that you're creating right like is it meaningful is it different right or are you just there

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reading off Wikipedia like some people do you know it's and not really kind of investing

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the time and the sad part of it right is that people give up so quickly because I think

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they want to start a podcast they don't realize the effort that goes into not only starting

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it right you think you launch it and you're like wow that's it that's great but then oh

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yeah I have to create content and do it weekly which I never recommend I recommend honestly

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yeah I never recommend that.

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Crazy I honestly like my best advice for when people are interested in starting a show is

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create 12 episodes have a full like season ready right like even if you're going to do

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weekly okay you have 12 weeks of episodes ready to go and if you can maintain that schedule

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and do it consistently then you're good to go you won't pot fade you understand like

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do it without even building an audience create the episodes and then schedule the content

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out so then you can start working on the next 12 because if you can do that without the

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pressure of oh my gosh how many downloads does this get should I stop should I go like you

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didn't you didn't pause on your creativity right you you kept it going because people

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will get down and out about the feedback that they get or like that the fact that they're

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not getting enough downloads from their perspective because they're seeing other people you know

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posting their numbers and everything that's my biggest advice is like first create the

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content do all of that first and if you can maintain that schedule and you can do it consistently

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then you're ready and you won't pod fade I truly believe that.

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For sure we actually were talking about that yesterday on our live we had a listener was

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talking to us about you know he thinks he wants to start a true crime podcast where

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does he start and we essentially gave him the same advice you know and I was like he was

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like is there anything that you guys wish that you did differently and that's exactly

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what I said I was like I kind of wish that we would have created a bunch of content all

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at once and then mass release that because it did take us a little while to get our feet

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wet you know we started in August of 2021 and we really didn't see us like a huge spike

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in our downloads until the end of 2023 so we were kind of in a lull for two years essentially

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not waiting but you know waiting I guess for something to happen to get those downloads

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up right we've essentially doubled our downloads within the last year.

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And I think especially at this point we have so much content that is out there that once

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we are discovered by a new person they tend to binge it.

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Yes lovely.

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Yes that's always a blessing I'm like please don't listen but also thank you.

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My early episodes I mean like I said started in 2016 so really if you're listening and

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you're wanting to binge like you have to start on the website first because my feet

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only goes back to like a certain number like I think 150 or something or something like

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that.

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Oh yeah.

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So I'm like yeah I'm not putting everything out there because like my first episode is

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the most cringe worthy one to me but I'm not taking you down because there are people

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who liked it right like who like it.

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No definitely.

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It's not the way that I would do my show anymore which is why you see like that change in growth

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but I also am like the person who always recommends starting with the most recent episode unless

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it's a serial podcast in which case yeah it makes sense to start at the beginning but

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I'm always like give your give the podcast a fair shot and start with the most recent

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because I've gotten reviews like a long time ago like last year and the year before where

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it would be like started listening to like the 2019 episodes I hope it gets better I'm

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like it does but why would you start there.

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No seriously because that's like.

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Not great.

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Yeah that's when we didn't have any experience right.

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Yeah.

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But then I also when I'm sorry I'm a person that listens to podcasts a lot and Koel's

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been honest about it she does not listen to podcasts very often.

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I listen more now only because I love faces to voices.

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Yeah.

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Like meeting people like Jason Astry I'm like oh god.

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Isn't it weird?

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Right.

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Oh my gosh.

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I'm in love with Richie Buck.

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Yeah.

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Yeah I mean getting the I actually listen ladies years as well before we met you and so it's

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kind of like that same thing.

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I'm sorry.

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No it was good but.

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She started in 2019.

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I don't know.

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Right.

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It was like that was actually my review so I'm glad to.

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I'm glad you get better.

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Glad I could get it off my chest.

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No so I do listen when I start a new podcast and I'm actually still in the process of looking

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for new ones like you know all the time I will listen to the most recent one because I'm

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like okay if I like them now I can get past maybe if they had any errors in the beginning

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or maybe things that they had to work out like it's easier for me to look past that

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when I know what they've accomplished like since then you know but I'll watch the most

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recent one and then I'll start from the beginning after that and then I'll binge it all the

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way through.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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It's important to see the growth.

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Yeah.

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I'm all like that's true like if I'm binging I'm binging backwards right I'm like unless

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it's again episodic and if they're doing like a three-parter then I skip around like

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for instance smart list right not in Andy Fodds as Ari but I listened to that one because

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it's very rare for me to step outside of listening to true crime really because I'm a true crime

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like content consumer like I agree to show that I like for myself and then I go okay

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and I listen to like literally everybody show mostly because I think it's beneficial for

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me to understand like the content right because we have kind of a screening process as it

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relates to TCPF right.

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We want people to come who have the right mindset in terms of being ethical creators.

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We don't want people who are just like blood and gore aren't these cool serial killers

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amazing like we don't know that or anything like that or anything you know of that nature

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so you know it's beneficial to me a and I get exposed to new content that I normally

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wouldn't have found right just on my own it's because I see them on the website or they

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are registering and I'm like oh yeah let me check them out and see you are creating a

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playlist of you know the best episodes in my opinion of what I've listened to thus far

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and stuff and so yeah it's to me it's really important to be a podcast consumer regardless

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of the content you're consuming right like if you're like I love self help podcasts great

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but you're a true crime creator amazing it's still you still need to be in that world to

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understand it like creating a podcast and listening to a podcast completely different worlds

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oh yeah and you converge those two right because I listen to my show even after I publish it

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because when I'm recording it I'm not listening to it in that same manner with the same year

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that I would exactly I was just a consumer so it's really important to kind of have both

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so even if you don't listen frequently at least you listen and so you're like yeah I

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can see the improvements that I could make in my own show just by listening to this and

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what they've done or like oh man I remember when that happened to me you know where I

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repeat in an episode that I thought I deleted but you know it's just learning how to edit

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and I've been editing for a whole day and now I can edit you know and now we're episode

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in like 30 minutes or 20 minutes whereas it used to take me forever editing was like you

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get to do your job the hardest part yes I'm very happy that's over now I'm glad I've been

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able to pass that on because I was like oh my god if I had to do that now I would never

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get an episode out yeah we would record like an hour and a half long episode and I would

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sit there and listen to it and it would take me three and a half hours to edit it and now

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I don't know why people might think we're crazy we just edit as we go now like as we're

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recording if something messes up we pause we start over and then we all I have to do is

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just join all those clips put our ads in post it and then you know it takes like 10 minutes

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to like what I think of this before yes I know so people do differently like I don't

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do punch and rolls for my podcast because it disrupts my flow of like the story telling

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piece but like if I'm doing for instance an audiobook I will I'll stop and go no I didn't

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like that I'm gonna go and re-record like double yeah and make sure you know so I think

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it's just it depends on the format right and if I'm doing my live show I'm not gonna be

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like hold on let me go back and do that again I'm like I don't care but yeah I mean I think

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it I think it varies and stuff like that and there are people who like swear by punch and

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roll and others who are like no I record straight through me now because I have the luxury I

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screw I go straight through I'm like yeah that's what I pay him for to go through and

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deal with that that's very true you know yeah but if I'm recording an episode that I'm like

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I've you know I've edited my own episodes but in the past and more recently too just

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because I've I've put myself on a weird deadline and I was like yeah I'm just gonna do the

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first pass of it or something and I'm like okay I still got it I still have this the

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snack to be able to not you know take forever like four or five hours with an hour long

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episode but people don't realize the the time investment that goes into this like if you're

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working a full-time job well welcome to your next full-time job because exactly on social

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media you're on you know you're building out your website you're editing your episodes you're

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getting you know your sources and researching like this is an additional full-time job that

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does not pay well there's no loss that you can talk to about getting a raise you're like

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okay and sometimes it can be you know it can you have the slumps and in podcasting every

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successful show does like we're not immune to that because of how long we've been around

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like we know notoriously in the winter time it is not ever a fun time in the next two

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weeks the downloads will obviously go down a little bit because of spring break with their

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kids and they're doing this so in the summer same thing so like it's an ebb and flow kind

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of situation excuse me deal with that and if you can deal with the feedback that you're

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gonna get unsolicited then you're good excuse me yeah I oh excuse me gosh I'm kicking the

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table over here and that's the beauty of the live we don't pause yeah say all that again

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I although I don't listen to a lot of podcasts I tend to listen to a lot of junk reality TV

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podcasts because it's mindless sometimes oh my gosh and Scandival just and everybody has

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a podcast now you listen to the bracket that's my favorite oh my gosh favorite things together

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leaps the law and brother TV yeah yeah and I also listen to that chapter but sometimes

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the the episodes are really really long and you can tell where they've pieced together

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like maybe they began recording the rest of it the next day where their voice kind of

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sounds a little different and so I I love the fact that you know you okay I got a tickle

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yeah I don't want to interrupt you okay she's crying yeah but yeah I I like the fact that

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this is like a concentrated maybe two hours will be in the closet together and just like

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not necessarily knocking it out but like getting it done like we set it aside that time then

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in there and but I understand on on you know sometimes I listen to a lot of YouTube channels

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like dreading or like IWU and they have sometimes three four hour long episodes of stuff yeah

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it's like man and it's all like interrogation videos and they're like pausing to talk about

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maybe body language or something and so I definitely understand that it's it's it can

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be worth it to take breaks in between those big episodes I don't think we've had anything

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that long have you ever had like an hours long episode Lainey where it's like three

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four hours absolutely I would listen to that yeah no and I would break it up anyways I

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would never it's harmful to your voice like I'm a like I said I'm a voice actor so I

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take great care and consideration as it relates to my voice health and everything so yeah I

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only record like even when I was working with Spotify and with a cast my heart and fast

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was like a maximum of an hour and 30 minutes like that's all you get because I'm also I

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also work full time and I literally talk for a living yeah I have to talk for a living

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so I'm like I can't and this is performative right so my voice that you're hearing now

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is not the voice you hear on my podcast right it's more fine-tuned it's more you know it's

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it's meant to be immersive so my voice is the least like captivating part of it right

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there's certain nuances you have to it when you're reading and stuff like that and especially

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like audiobooks and stuff there's I would never go longer than an hour and a half if

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I'm performing anything hmm you can I mean you can honestly hear it at that point I feel

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like you're talking for that long you know we've done episodes that are almost two hours

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at the end of it I'm like oh my god and then I go to my like hang out with my boyfriend

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he wants to chat I'm like just I don't want to talk to anybody today yeah exactly and

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you get worn out like it physically is draining on your body to do that absolutely even yesterday

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we had our first Instagram live I know that you liked the post but we did that for it

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I mean it pretty much took us three hours because we prepped for like an hour and then we were

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on it for an hour and a half an hour and you know a 45 whatever and then immediately when

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we hung up we went straight to the closet and recorded an hour long episode and by the

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end of that episode I was like oh my god I don't know what I've done it was like a full

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time job on top of a full time job and it's like you know you clock out and you go to

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the next job and then both of us log off and then we still have homework and it's like

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oh my god because we're both still in school oh it's just a lot you're so right it's like

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a second full time job but you know what it's what we're passionate about and that's why

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we do it we don't do it for anybody but ourselves honestly because we love it exactly I mean

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that's what drives you at the end of the day that's what drives me it's like I need to

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have two parts right like I have I could never quit working full time in a like corporate

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America job I just the way I was raised the need for stability and all this stuff like

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I've tried doing content creation full time and I was like I hate this like this sucks

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it took all of the fun and the creativity out of it when I had to see it as a job yeah

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and so being able to see this as a fun thing that I get to do was really important to me

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like I had I knew that I was probably going to have a baby at some point and it was I

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think insanely far ahead right probably thanks to my anxiety and depression where I'm like

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hmm I could die baby who knows so I know I definitely will be so that's no longer a

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mystery I definitely will be dead at some point salt it was like there we go but it

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was really important for me to have to to have an identity outside of being a mom right

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because I didn't want to be this person who was like you know you hear those like stories

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of women in their 40s or 50s who are like I put all of this work and effort into being

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a mom and being there for my kid and now you know they've gone on and started living their

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lives and I don't know what I like what I do what I want and more and I was like I'm

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not going to be that person I want to have this full person identity and add on being

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a mom like I can do that too as long as I can have this and this and have that balance

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in creativity and then also have the stability to say like I can provide for my family and

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I can have this creative outlet and now I can be I can be a full person because I have

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both of those things and now I can be the best mom you know yeah it was really important

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for me to to have that and so being able to balance those things has been tricky sometimes

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and it's it's not always been easy but part of being able to build that community around

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yourself is having your friends step in for you so like when I had my baby and I was on

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maternity leave I had already planned out you know like six episodes and made it for

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all of my friends who were going to come on and host an episode based off of like where

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their podcast was located their stuff or like if they were like a Texas podcast and it would

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be a Texas crime my friend lives on the east coast in the Berkshires and so I was like oh

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we'll do a Massachusetts case you know so getting them to kind of come around and rally

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for me while I'm out and not go okay what are you going to give me it's like it's not

325
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one of those situations it's always kind of very supportive and that's what I want other

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people to find like I want people to find and get what I have in the creator community

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that I was able to build around me when I first started yeah I think it's it's really important

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to to have that for me personally being a parent myself yeah I had one person I'll never forget

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the way that she said it to me but you see you just want to be a mom when I said I wanted

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to have my kiddo and I'm I wasn't I mean to me every baby is important right but yeah

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I was 26 I was married at the time I was very much in a position financially that I wanted

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to have a baby that is something that we planned for and we had our son and when I had said

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that for many years I said I want to be a wife and I want to be a mom and she's like

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well you don't want anything more like you don't want and I just I've that always sat

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so gross with me I was like no like this is what I want to do and I can do my life however

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I want to and then when I chose to go back to school it's a very real conversation that

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me and my son have he's in school and so I'm like I'm doing homework you're doing homework

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like it's a vibe right yeah and then also he knows about the podcast and what we talk

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about and we talk about mental health he thinks we're famous he's yeah when he told our knees

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that she's like oh he's he said my mom and Kenna are famous I was like oh baby but I

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I like that because I was able to do it in a way that made sense to me and there's never

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you know people like oh well you know you did life backwards well what is forwards what

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is backwards I mean yeah it never has but yeah I think definitely being able to feel

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like I have it all but at a pace that made sense for me and was like really important

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to me and I find it so much more rewarding now yes I mean that's just kind of the same

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thing that I do as well excuse me oh my gosh do as well I'm gonna be 29 and a few months

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and you know I'm in my master's program I didn't get my bachelor's until I was 26 and

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now I'm in my master's program not engaged you know not even living really on my own

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but I don't care you know like I love my life like the way that it is like and everyone's

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like oh you and Casey have been together for so long like why aren't you guys married I'm

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like none of your business because we're not ready to get married you know financially

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we're not gonna put ourselves in a situation where we're broke and just because we're married

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like no we're together I would love to get married I'm excited to get married but it's

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just not right now and that's okay you know like to rush exactly everyone can do what

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they want and honestly like I said the podcast is super important to us and that's why I

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feel like we focused on it on the right at the right time and right when we started I

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feel like it was like getting really really big I feel like if we had waited a couple

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of years we might not have been as successful as we have been.

359
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Well I mean it is one of those things that right like you can't really look at it like

360
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that.

361
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It's true because we wouldn't have created the content that we created when we created

362
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it.

363
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,760
Yeah.

364
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:08,760
It's all butterfly effect right?

365
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Right.

366
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But yeah the festival Lainey Do You Mind talking a little bit more about that we definitely

367
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mention it every episode that we put out but because you're the co-founder definitely

368
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want to hear from you how that got started and everything.

369
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:33,760
Oh man okay so it started in 2018 I was at another criminal conference if you will we

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were brought on as the inaugural for the inaugural one and it was so funny to me because they

371
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like podcasts podcasts are great podcasts are wonderful we're gonna have this whole room

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for you guys and we're like dang that's awesome this is amazing and then when we get there

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they're like everybody in attendance I kid you not like you cannot imagine the more like

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surreal thing being like okay I've bought all this stuff for my table I have stickers

375
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like they're gonna be my listeners are gonna be here I've been talking about it like this

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free advertising and then everybody walks in and is like what's a podcast what do you

377
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do what is this and you're like oh this is literally a room created of no one.

378
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Nothing but podcasts and you guys are literally have no clue so communication I guess to the

379
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general audience about like what it was everybody was there to like see Nancy Grace and all this

380
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stuff and Nancy Grace had a table which was also interesting but so we were set up with

381
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like with these like celebrities and stuff if you will and then the people would just

382
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come around and you'd be like so I have a podcast like oh how do you listen to it or what is

383
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:44,160
that like is it like I'm like it's like a radio show without commercials now that's not true

384
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now it's like a radio show with commercials.

385
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Just get these if you want to or pay extra and get more sorry that was my chair.

386
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Something like that you know so I was really disappointed with that experience and then

387
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as time went on I was kind of just like I don't really like this I want to do something

388
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like this but like not at the same level where the creator gets lost in it like where it's

389
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focused on this like celebrity of a person versus the people who create the content that

390
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people want to listen to right.

391
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Like people who would create the content for Nancy Grace for instance to have a podcast

392
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that she has now.

393
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So I was sitting at the hotel bar with a bunch of my friends and I said I want to do this

394
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I just want at first I was like I just want to host a meetup you know like I wanted you

395
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a big meetup with all of us and find a place that'll host us and everything and I was like

396
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,640
okay do it like that's amazing and so we got another person to help on the planning side

397
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to be like oh hey actually I know how to do things like this so I can help you.

398
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:54,680
So we did the 2019 event in Chicago completely grassroots no marketing no like awareness

399
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at all and 500 people showed up and that's so cool.

400
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,400
Yeah we were completely out of our depth right like we were very fortunate that it was great

401
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,760
and amazing but we were completely like I mean if you can imagine now that you've been

402
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:17,840
to one having the sessions in the same room as the podcast row like you'd be like mmm

403
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,000
not a good idea probably more choice right.

404
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:27,400
It was it was so we just like had no clue what we were doing right but people trusted

405
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us enough to be able to come and go like yeah this seems like fun overall the event was

406
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,280
great but it was just like not done well at the end of the day like from a programming

407
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:41,200
standpoint it's it was from a numbers perspective amazing huge success.

408
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,200
Yeah.

409
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,800
But from my own perspective of what people got out of it I was like I am surprised anybody

410
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,360
wants to come back to this because it was a shit show.

411
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But you know it's nice again that I've built this reputation like this positive reputation

412
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,200
in this community that people trust me enough to go hey I'm gonna give this another shot

413
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,000
and see and each time we've gotten better right like we take it in unfortunately right

414
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:11,400
we had COVID so we had to skip one year and then we had the gathering restriction so

415
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we literally coincidentally hosted essentially a meetup in a giant hotel room for the 2020

416
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or 2021 festival that was in Kansas City.

417
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,560
And so when 2022 came around I was like listen you know we don't have the same audience at

418
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:38,160
all that we had and things have changed I mean since 2019 to 2022 the economy had changed

419
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,520
and all this stuff so I wasn't expecting the 500 again to me that was a fluke right I was

420
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,160
like that rarely happens like we were so lucky.

421
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,720
So in 2022 we came back to Dallas I chose Dallas truly because I just had my kids so

422
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,920
I was like I'm not going anywhere that requires trouble and I have all this shit to bring.

423
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,960
So I didn't realize I was in Dallas.

424
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:05,400
Yeah so the first one was in Dallas in 2022 and that was great it was still a great learning

425
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,680
opportunity for me because it was basically all alone without on the planning side I was

426
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:17,760
solo right and then I had my friends helping with the scheduling and with the tables and

427
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,360
figuring out that stuff because I was like oh I'm not I don't I don't know.

428
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,320
What I can do is get people there what I can do is connect with creators and what I can

429
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,360
do is this and then I had all my other friends who had great strengths and in planning on

430
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,840
that side helping with that but there were still opportunities for improvement there

431
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:40,520
and so 2023 in Austin and to be candid and very honest with you I have never enjoyed

432
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:46,800
a festival I have never like experienced it in a way that I was like oh my god this was

433
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,120
the best I'm always like this was crap right.

434
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:56,600
Everybody hates me and now they're like you're terrible at everything you do why do you keep

435
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,120
doing this to yourself.

436
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,600
I'm like I don't know I'm really passionate about it.

437
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,600
I'm really passionate about looking like an ass in front of everyone.

438
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,240
Well it makes you feel any better when we saw you we freaked out we were a little star

439
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,240
struggling.

440
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,240
You're like a slainie.

441
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,240
I'm like a slainie.

442
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,360
No so 2023 in Austin I mean I went in with I go into these things with terrible anxiety

443
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:23,920
like I am always the worst person to myself like I'm like you guys can say whatever you

444
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,920
want you can be like hey you're terrible piece of shit and I'll be like thank you I know.

445
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:29,920
Thank you for the criticism.

446
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,720
And also I'm like nobody can be meaner to me than myself like you got nothing on me

447
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:41,960
as it relates to me in that capacity so going into Austin I was so nervous I was so like

448
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,600
oh my god I can't believe you know I was I was worried about everything I always worry

449
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:51,080
about money because I'm like how am I going to pay this eventually I always do so it's

450
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,640
not everything I should worry about it's but I do I always am like hey I haven't hit this

451
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,920
goal I haven't hit this milestone this is what I wanted to see this is what I wanted

452
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:07,640
to do and I can't do it or whatever so when we finally walked into Austin and I had everything

453
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:14,480
kind of lessons learned from 2022 implemented 2023 I was like okay and then getting the

454
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,760
real time feedback from people of like this has been great this has been amazing this

455
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:25,000
has been awesome I was like holy crap like I think I actually like being here like I

456
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,840
think this was great and it was like it's still opportunities for growth in that sense

457
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:38,480
of of audio and making sure we have XYZ and diversity and paneling and creating two tracks

458
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,000
which is what we've changed for this year is that we're having a podcasters education

459
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,840
track and then a attendee track right so if podcasters want to learn from their peers

460
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,640
about hey how did I get started what's good marketing techniques or things that you can

461
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,360
do well you get to do that here right how can I start a YouTube channel because I have

462
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:03,120
no idea how YouTube works I only know the podcasting platform and the rules that you

463
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,640
know are different like nobody's going to take my podcast off the air or demonetize

464
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,560
my podcast right that's completely up to me but on YouTube it's left to somebody else

465
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,760
to go yeah your content violated our policies so this video is demonetized like how can

466
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:23,520
you avoid that how can you work around that to create content that can serve both platforms

467
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:29,000
or any platform without violating any policies or whatever they have in place so we should

468
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:36,560
go to that I know we'll be there so you know it's things like that like this is something

469
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:43,240
that people can learn from as like you know from a educational perspective of how do I

470
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,160
start a podcast well great here's how you can do it and learning from the people who

471
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,080
have done it successfully or continuing to learn how to do it successfully and then

472
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:57,720
the other side which changed a lot for me and Dallas which was the focus on ethics and

473
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:06,280
advocacy right sorry lady I'm so sorry there was not anything you said it was ethics and

474
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:14,560
advocacy is pretty funny haha something happened on our microphone it sounded so

475
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:21,200
freaky sorry it sounded like I don't know I tried my absolute hardest to not laugh

476
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,760
and it was like when you're in the classroom with your friend and you can't laugh you know

477
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,760
what I mean we just made eye contact when we started laughing so sorry that's so rude

478
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:35,160
go ahead it is it's fine it may mean I may never come back but that's okay you had your

479
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:42,320
chance so we're good but you know we had the focus and shift on ethics and advocacy which

480
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:48,280
is super important to me and it's literally changed my life and so I'm just like I have

481
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:54,040
no compromise there like we are not here to glorify to do anything like we are here to

482
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,320
amplify the voices of the people who basically gave us this content without them we would

483
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,960
have no platforms like I wouldn't have this success I have without somebody having the

484
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,920
worst day of their life and I have to be able to sleep at night going have I done enough

485
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,840
have I helped somebody have I given you know my platform to somebody who could use it and

486
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,400
thankfully I can say yes I have and yes I continue to do so and now I get to create an environment

487
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,440
where they can come and meet creators who want to help them because you can imagine when

488
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:32,800
you have somebody who's like lost a family member a family member is missing and they

489
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,920
you know people tell them like oh reach out to this podcast there's millions of podcasts

490
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:44,640
out there and imagine being able to be in a room and go I have unlimited access to these

491
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,000
creators and now I get to tell them about my case and it's really difficult as a person

492
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,880
being in front of another person who's dealing with this going you know that content doesn't

493
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,880
really fit my show like you're gonna find a way to make it work if you want to if you

494
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:07,440
want to right like there's sure you can do it but it's a completely different vibe it's

495
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,600
a completely different opportunity for the families and advocates to come in and say

496
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600
like hey here's my story can we can I get on your show and they would like yeah I'd love

497
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,960
to have you on my show and and then they build connections like there are people in this industry

498
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,480
who have had who have just like randomly decided to help somebody and now they're like celebrating

499
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,960
birthdays together they spend time as a family like they've they've built these connections

500
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:38,280
because of a common mission they have to spread awareness about a crime that's taken place

501
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,920
you know or a person that's missing and I think that's incredible and if I can have a

502
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,760
part in that I want to I always want to see that growth and be like that's amazing so

503
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:56,000
for sure that's it that's a long story especially no I think especially I think it's a lot of

504
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,920
it I find it funny that you you said that you guys were kind of looking for a true not

505
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,120
maybe not necessarily a true crime meetup but some kind of a meetup and that you guys

506
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,200
created this because that's exactly what we were doing we were looking for a meetup we're

507
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,720
like there has to be something in the San Antonio area where people get together and do this

508
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:19,120
yeah and then sure enough it was yeah just a few months before the con and we were really

509
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,840
nervous about it but really excited and we were really fortunate to have it kind of

510
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:29,360
in our backyard and not across the US somewhere yeah if it was we had seen it in Chicago we

511
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,480
wouldn't have been able to go right financially we just you know so that was kismet I think

512
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,440
that it happened to be in Austin and what I tell you that we like literally shrieked

513
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,840
when we got like approved I'm not even joking when we got registered we were like really

514
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:52,560
I was like so even this year would like they want us back I'm so impressed by all because

515
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:57,320
I reached out to you to go hey you know because my job my my goal is to give you like a platform

516
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,960
to like collaborate with other creators and say like I always like pairing newer shows

517
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,880
with older shows and creating that network like kind of forcing that network to be like

518
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,200
oh yeah remember when we worked together and it creates a it breaks the ice there to where

519
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,160
you're not like oh my god Justin from generation why you're like okay it's just it's gonna be

520
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:25,120
okay just hey Justin you know I love them so much so it's fine but you guys were like

521
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:30,440
no thanks we don't think we're like ready for that yet and I was like look at you not

522
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,080
just going sure we'll do it and said you were like you know what we'd like to see how things

523
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,960
work first before we consider doing something like that like you wanted to be fully prepared

524
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,240
to like be essentially like your best self and I was like that is I've never seen that

525
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:51,400
and I think that is so admirable honestly because you know people would be like of course

526
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,120
I'll do it I'll be on you know whatever and and go after that piece as opposed to being

527
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,520
like I want to do what's best for myself and make sure that I'm presenting myself in the

528
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:07,560
best light possible and I think that's beautiful thank you yeah definitely want to be authentic

529
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,720
authentically ourselves and I think at that time I think not that we've struggled with

530
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:20,480
authenticity but just having having specific dialogues and and bringing those specific

531
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:27,360
topics to the table and a really sensitive and and coming from a really and a place of

532
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:33,080
knowledge and understanding rather and so to have all that now you know maybe not this

533
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:38,840
year but you know but still I think that we're we're gearing up to that and I think that

534
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,560
it was really important for us to be like let's walk into the space and see how it goes

535
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:49,280
yeah fortunately everyone has been so supportive and I am not kidding the listeners the way

536
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,480
that Laney is describing this is exactly the way that it feels it feels warm and comfy

537
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,600
and inviting and positive and the connections are there and you can have a drink with other

538
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:05,160
podcasters and they don't judge you for being new and it's like yeah sorry cut you off again

539
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:11,600
I was just talking about the panel we had last year it was about you know learning the festival

540
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:17,360
in itself right not even just the panel but learning the festival so we got to do that

541
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,520
figured out how it all worked we got to meet amazing people and then we realized oh my god

542
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,480
we didn't go to any of the panels last year so now this year we're like now we gotta go

543
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,720
to the panels because we're not gonna just do one if we've never seen one so this year

544
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,240
yeah our focus is gonna be to attend you know most of the panels or if we can and then of

545
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,760
course build those connections still and then maybe next year we do one I think sometimes

546
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,920
our fear is not being present at the booth you know here's the thing yes I know everybody

547
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,520
so that's the thing we're changing 2024 right because I was like yeah people are gonna be

548
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,520
like well I want to be here but I also want to go in here this and that's also what I

549
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,080
struggled with when I went to that one criminal conference like that actually seems really

550
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:02,440
interesting but I'm told I have to stay here all day so then I can't go and so we're changing

551
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,680
that for 2024 so we have scheduled times like you're gonna probably be at your table a max

552
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,880
of three hours for the entire festival so then you can go and that's that's like scheduled

553
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:18,000
time anytime you can stay there all day like some people like to do or you can go to a

554
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:27,160
you know a passion a session a panel and things like that so you know I was like I heard you

555
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,920
guys loud and clear on that and it's gonna change like it's gonna be something that because

556
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:37,320
I it's I want you to get something out of it too right you're doing me a favor by coming

557
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:43,480
and sharing you know your space and your podcast with these attendees so I want to make sure

558
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,800
you get something out of it too because also as any creators newsflash like we don't make

559
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,880
a lot of money if any some of this comes out of our personal pocket like TCPF every year

560
00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:01,200
pretty much comes out of my personal funds like most of it is thankfully through ticket

561
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,440
sales but like the little stuff that I do I'm like I'll do it because I don't want to take

562
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,080
away from the festival and being able to do this just yeah like I can do it so I'll make

563
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:15,200
sure it's done and stuff and that's because I'm like I want to make sure it's all good

564
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,280
but yeah you know you want to get something yeah you want to get something out of it too

565
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:24,040
and you also want to maximize the benefit like you're traveling however you decide to

566
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,480
travel air or through a vehicle you're having to spend money for your food for your hotel

567
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:36,000
like I try to make it as cost effective as possible to keep it low because yes I could

568
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,160
charge three hundred dollars five hundred dollars a thousand dollars but I'm not that

569
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,880
person and it's never been about profits for me it's always like I want to make it accessible

570
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:54,200
so everybody can come you know yeah like the creator who's like I only have like 50 listeners

571
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,800
and two episodes can I come like yeah dude register this is gonna be awesome for you

572
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,360
and it's a to me it's also a very overwhelming event I tell people if they've never been

573
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,400
on like just prepare yourself because it is a lot yeah you need a day off the next like

574
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:15,240
when it's all over you need a day off from work like plan for the Thursday through Monday

575
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:21,400
to be off because exactly what we're doing I was just gonna say the fact that you were

576
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,320
saying that you want everyone to be able to attend so this year is actually a family affair

577
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,840
we're actually coming with both of our boyfriends and our parents because it's my birthday on

578
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,160
Sunday the 14th and so I was like if we're gonna be in Denver on my birthday I'm not

579
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,520
flying home my birthday we're gonna stay on my birthday and we'll go home on Monday

580
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:44,000
so yeah really really excited for them to be excited and of course for them to see our

581
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:55,400
little niche niche niche niche or reason trust me I'm a voice actor I know how to pronounce

582
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:10,960
words I'm good Laney do you have anything else you want to say before we end our conversation

583
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:19,760
um yes we will be planning a Texas podcast union meetup soon we do as you may know or

584
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,920
may not know the Texas podcast union is made up of all true not true crime all creators

585
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:32,440
in Texas who have a podcast literally runs a gambit of the type of shows that they have

586
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:39,000
and it's a lot of fun so we travel throughout the state of Texas so we go typically Dallas

587
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:47,080
then Fort Worth Austin San Antonio and Houston sometime it's a personal feel like a Houston

588
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:53,880
if you know you know I hate Houston not the people well sometimes the people but also

589
00:44:53,880 --> 00:45:01,080
the traffic traffic traffic sure desire yeah I have zero desire to be in Houston at any

590
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:11,600
point on purpose so sorry no hate no hate no shade no you know but also not sorry so

591
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,680
yeah we're gonna be going through we kind of go through the middle right we hit all the

592
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,080
major cities and stuff like that and we find cool bars or like coffee houses and stuff

593
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,400
that will let us just hang out and if we get the opportunity to like do a live show we'll

594
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,800
do one if they have a stage and Mike and stuff some of the some of them do but otherwise

595
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,040
we just hang out drink and get to know each other or invite people there and stuff so

596
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:38,560
we will be picking those up probably after July so we'll be doing more in the fall months

597
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:44,240
because it's people aren't traveling as much and they're also it's the summer in Texas

598
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:50,800
so you don't want to do anything crazy in Texas yeah yeah so yeah so we'll be doing

599
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,320
some of those in the later half of the year and that'll be fun so you guys don't have

600
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,600
to come to the Dallas one you can wait till the San Antonio one I was so excited it's

601
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:06,600
gonna be a lot of fun yes and it's fun oh my god I know that's gonna be so much so much

602
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:13,360
fun I'm cannot wait so that's thank you so much Laney yes thank you for loving me yes

603
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,600
absolutely and I wanted to say I think that we did really great having a podcaster on

604
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,200
our live because I feel like the last couple people that we've had there been great episodes

605
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,720
but they don't feel like they can't talk because they're not used to it so I think it was really

606
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:33,880
good awesome thank you yeah thank you gosh absolutely well I think that's all we have

607
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,080
and listeners we will see you when our next episode comes up yes okay all right ready

608
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:45,080
you want to say it with us Laney one two three love you bye