1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,480 Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, The Mental Breakdown. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:34,080 I'm Kena and I'm Ka'el and we just did a thing! 3 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:43,680 We were just on a live and we had a really positive response. I feel like people were 4 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,880 communicating really well. I liked seeing the community kind of chat with each other a little bit. 5 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:54,240 Yeah definitely. It was really cool to see the different areas that people were coming from 6 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:01,600 and just such a positive group of people. Yeah I think so. Great conversations. We will be doing 7 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,920 that again on Friday. That's going to be on what not as well. You'll probably hear this on Monday. 8 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,200 On Friday it's actually going to be more merch forward and there's actually a link 9 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,520 in the post about the live where you can get a discount. What did you say it was? 10 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,880 Yeah I believe if you're a first-time user and you sign up through our code which is 11 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:27,520 whatnot.com forward slash invite forward slash diagnosing a killer you should receive a $15 12 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,720 off your first purchase. That would be essentially a free shirt. 13 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:42,080 Yeah exactly. We're going to be pushing some upcycled stuff. I think our intention is to 14 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:50,240 have them on an auction. So essentially it's live eBay but there are also our new t-shirts, 15 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:57,440 the ones that have never been used. Those will also be in our buy it now or what they call a bin. 16 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:03,920 You can buy that anytime this week leading up to the show. Those I think there's only one style of 17 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:10,400 each of those posted right now so if you want to snag those before the live I suggest you do so. 18 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,600 They should be on our page when you go to what not and you go to diagnosing a killer. 19 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:21,040 There should be a little link that says like available now or marketplace I think. 20 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,560 Yeah definitely and if you do see a design that you see and you're like oh I want that and then 21 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,920 you wait till Friday it's not there we can always remake it but you would just need to order that 22 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:32,560 through our Instagram so through our forums. Yes through our forums or just send us a DM. 23 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,280 Yeah for sure. It works either way. Yeah exactly and I understand that the forms can be kind of 24 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,800 complicated for some so yeah if you see something on there and you're like well I don't really see 25 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:49,600 it offered in pink or I don't see it offered in the specific combination of a design just message us 26 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,920 and we love love love making custom stuff for you guys. For sure. Speaking of DMs I actually just 27 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:59,280 wanted to read a quick one that we received the other day that I thought was really nice. 28 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:05,520 So this is from a listener called Aimee and Aimee says hi I just wanted to send you guys a message 29 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,440 from all the way across the pond in the UK. I'm a psychology master's student in Cardiff and my 30 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,440 boyfriend lives in Dallas Texas working and voice acting and we both love the podcast. We tend to 31 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,240 fall asleep on the phone to FaceTime and something that we used to do was he would put on I survived 32 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,600 episodes for me to fall asleep to. I love that. I love I survived. She said when we finished all 33 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,680 those episodes we were trying to find something else we could listen to slash watch together when 34 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,720 we head to bed and I stumbled on your podcast. I'm hoping at some point to pursue a research 35 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,680 in clinical psychology and do a PhD in the States and hearing your podcast has honestly been such a 36 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,480 hyper fixation of mine for the last few months and led me to realize I have a keen interest in 37 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,120 forensic psychology. My boyfriend and I wanted to let you know that we absolutely love listening to 38 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,200 the show and we wanted to share how much we enjoy hearing them together even when we're far apart. 39 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:03,120 Aw, thanks Aimee. I love that. There's also a follow-up message that has a case suggestion 40 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:09,760 and she had also said they echo the hello every time they start an episode because it always gives 41 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,160 them a serotonin boost so it was like that makes me feel so good. I love that. Oh, that's great. 42 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,000 Yeah, no, definitely love hearing those messages from you guys and we try to reply to every single 43 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,160 one of them and we really appreciate you guys reaching out because it makes our day to know 44 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:30,400 that we make your day sometimes. Yeah. Before we begin our mentee breaky which actually needs to go 45 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,080 on a bracelet. I don't know why I haven't done that yet. Can we do one that sounds like mentee 46 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:40,800 breaky but it's got like a little cup of tea or like a coffee cup? Sure. Like brekkie? Like breaky? 47 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,680 Oh, sure. Yeah. Do you want to give everyone our handles on social media before we start? 48 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,360 Sure. You can catch us on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer other than X formally 49 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:57,600 known as Twitter which is at Killer Diagnosis. We also have a Venmo, a PayPal, a cash wrap. 50 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:03,200 We also have a Patreon. You get an added bonus episode for tier two and three Patreon members. 51 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:10,160 Tier one also gets access to ad-free episodes. Yeah. What else? Set up? Just get your tickets for 52 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,120 the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is happening on July 12th through the 14th 53 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:20,640 in Denver, Colorado. We are so excited to be there and if you join our live on what not on Friday, 54 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,600 you will see that we have made koozies specifically for this occasion. Yes. And we only have a couple 55 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,800 of them. So come join in and try to get you a koozie. If not, I can always make more of course. 56 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,120 But we'd like to... They're limited release. They are limited release. They're just for this year. 57 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,120 Exactly. Yeah. All right. You ready to get on into it? Let's do it. 58 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:48,160 So today for our mental breakdown, we are going to be talking about one scam artist by the name 59 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:55,120 of Annabelle Natalie Gibson. A scam artist? I was going to do like scam artists like and do a couple 60 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,520 of them, but this story was so long I was like, fucking, I'm just going to do her. Okay. So I 61 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,320 will probably be doing another scam artist eventually. But I don't think I want to do like 62 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,560 this is like a part one because it's just one story. Yeah. I just named, I guess I'll just name 63 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,800 the episode her name. I'm not sure yet. Not sure. We'll see. We'll see. You guys already know, but 64 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:19,280 we don't know yet. Content warning, this episode contains depictions of deceit, manipulation, 65 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:24,480 and taking advantage of vulnerable populations. If this episode is not for you, we encourage you 66 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,720 to find another one of our episodes. Remember, your mental health is very important and we love you. 67 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:36,960 Love you. Bye. So yeah, no moida or anything. No moida. Annabelle Natalie Gibson was born on 68 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:44,080 October 8th, 1991 in Launston, Tasmania to her mother Natalie Gibson. Gibson. So her middle 69 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,440 name was her mom's first name. Tasmania. That's interesting. In Australia. In Australia. The 70 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:54,240 identity of her father is unknown. Well, at least to me, I couldn't find it. But Natalie would 71 00:06:54,240 --> 00:07:01,200 later marry one Andrew Dahl Bello when she would change her last name from Gibson. As far as I 72 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:07,520 could tell, Belle had one older brother, Nick, who was three-ish years older than her. According to 73 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:12,480 interviews that Belle has given, she would leave the family home at the age of 12 and begin living 74 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:20,400 with a classmate of hers. 12? Yes. Okay. Keep in mind, she's a scam artist. So essentially, this 75 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:26,240 sounds bad, but you really can't fully believe everything she says. It's fair. It's the way 76 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,080 I feel about Ezra, Ezra McCamless. I feel like everything out of that girl's mouth is just a 77 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,880 lie. A lie. And when you do it for so long, people, why wouldn't they think that? Yeah. 78 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,640 Belle would later leave this home as well, according to her, and begin living with a family 79 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:47,040 friend following this. There is not much known about Belle's early childhood, but she would attend 80 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,000 Wynhem State High School in Manly, Queensland. However, she would drop out in grade 10. 81 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:59,200 Belle was also noted as stating that she was homeschooled in a later interview. So again, 82 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,640 which is it? I know you're, I mean, not that you're too young, but a lot of people don't remember 83 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:10,160 the show. But Clone High was on MTV for a little bit. And it's essentially like exactly how it 84 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,640 sounds. They cloned historical figures that they're all in high school together. So they're very 85 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:21,680 angsty. And one was Abraham Lincoln. There's like Abraham Lincoln, Gandhi, Joan of Arc, 86 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:29,520 Cleopatra, and JFK. And so they're having like a presidential, what am I trying to say? Debate? 87 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:35,680 No, like a, like they're running? Yeah. Like a camp council. Oh, stuff, right? Like president of 88 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:43,360 student council. Oh, okay. And so, but it's JFK and Abraham Lincoln. Oh, God. And I'm sorry, 89 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,720 this is way too long. This tangent is too long. But it just reminds me of a, they had these 90 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:54,880 ad campaigns against each other. And JFK, this is all like, last year, Abraham Lincoln claimed he 91 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:02,960 was 15 years old. Oh my God. This year, he claims he's 16. Which is it, Abe? Better get your story 92 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:10,240 straight. That's like classic. That's what I wanted to say. Better get your story straight. Yeah, 93 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,160 that is so funny. Oh my God. I can't believe I don't know about that. Ah, Clone High. And I think 94 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:20,720 they want to revamp it, but I have no idea when or where. Yeah. So shortly after leaving high school, 95 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,680 Belle would begin working for some time as a trainee for a catering supply company named 96 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:32,080 PFD Food Services in Leighton. However, social media around this time seemed to suggest that by 97 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,160 late 2008, Belle had relocated to Perth, Western Australia. Did she just say, which is it, Belle? 98 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,600 I don't know. Which is it, Belle? This is just, these are all the things that, like, I'm like, 99 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,840 I'm going to give you all the information. You choose what you want to believe and what you don't. 100 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,680 Fair. Yeah. I like cases like that though. Yeah. Or you're just like, you know, 101 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:55,120 decipher on your own. I don't know. You tell me. I wasn't there. So here in Perth, Western Australia, 102 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,920 a 17 year old Belle would become involved in the skateboarding culture and would begin actively 103 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:05,600 participating on social media. She wanted to be like an influencer. Yeah. She's one of the new 104 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,520 influencers. She's not like others. In 2009, Belle would meet a man by the name of Clive 105 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,960 Rothwell and the two would shortly bring a little boy into the world. I love the Corbett. 106 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,000 Oliver. Okay. It was like literally like, I love Clive. I love Clive. Now I love Oliver too. I love 107 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,160 Corbett. Corbett. I've always told Casey that. I'm like, if I have a boy, I kind of want to name 108 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:32,800 Corbett. Yeah. Corbett. C-R-B-E-T-T. Corbett. Oh, like, yeah, like Corbett. Like Sorbet. There, 109 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:40,320 I've ruined it. No, there's two Ts at the end. If I had a little girl, I wanted to name her Margo. 110 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,440 Oh, that's cute. And, but traditionally spelt like Margot, you know, G-O-G-E. Oh, yeah. I had a 111 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:51,280 fun time in college that was named that. Yeah. I love that name, Margo. So around the same time 112 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,720 that Belle would have her little boy, she would also begin showing up on social media and gaining a 113 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,160 lot of traction surrounding her healthy living mindset and tips and tricks to maintain your 114 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:08,320 health. Okay. So she became like a health influencer. In August of 2013. Nobody can see me, 115 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:14,000 but I rolled my eyes. I'm surprised you couldn't hear me without how hard I rolled my eyes. I heard 116 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:23,040 you really right. Sounds like two marbles rolling around. What is funny? In August of 2013, at the 117 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:30,720 age of 21, Belle would release her self-made app by the name of The Whole Pantry. Hmm. After the app 118 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:36,240 was launched, The Whole Pantry was reportedly downloaded 200,000 times within its first month. 119 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,640 The Whole Pantry sounds really familiar. You probably know this, like about this at least. 120 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:47,200 So this app would subsequently be voted Apple's best food and drink app of 2013. Like, it got 121 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,760 really popular really fast. Okay. So definitely have heard of this. The Whole Pantry. Yeah. 122 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,960 Interesting. So the app consisted of healthy recipes and also wellness slash lifestyle 123 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,280 information that everyone seemed to really love. And this was during that time. I feel like, 124 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,080 I graduated high school in 2013 if anyone is wondering, but I feel like around this time, 125 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,680 that was when a lot of like influencers started becoming a thing. And it's like, 126 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:14,880 now there's so much presence on social media. People are now more self-conscious about how 127 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,840 they look because these people that they see are really fit and really, you know, active and all 128 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,560 this stuff. So I feel like everyone was eating this up, so to speak, this healthy lifestyle 129 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:29,840 and mindset, you know? Yeah. So this was honestly, unfortunately, the perfect time for her to launch 130 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:35,360 something like this. Vine was a thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, of course. So Belle would quickly 131 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:40,240 be reached out to by big companies wanting her to be interviewed and have her share more of her 132 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:46,160 trade secrets about the app and her lifestyle. Like the cloud. She has like the biggest head. 133 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,960 Yeah, for sure. She would soon after sign a book deal with Lantern Books and would begin 134 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:58,560 creating a tabletop cookbook. So it was almost like a cookbook meets like autobiography. Like 135 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:02,480 she would like put like certain things in her about herself in there and then be like, this is 136 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:08,720 why I lean towards this, you know, lifestyle change or whatever it was. But she has no education 137 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,120 or nutrition at all. Not that I know of. No, because she dropped out of high school, right? 138 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,400 You know, couldn't really tell if she went to college or not. It was almost like she was like 139 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:22,400 self educated. Yeah. Around this time, during these interviews that Belle was giving, 140 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,720 she would shockingly announce that she had suffered from malignant brain, blood, spleen, 141 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,680 uterine, liver and kidney cancers. What? What she had attributed to a reaction to the 142 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:43,600 Gardasil cervical cancer vaccine. Okay. So she's saying I did the Gardasil vaccine and I got 143 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,920 all of these. It was like metastasized throughout my whole body. I got all of these cancers, 144 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,520 but that was in the past. And now I'm using this healthy lifestyle to like get out. It helps me 145 00:13:53,520 --> 00:14:00,160 out of that, essentially. Okay. But she's again, is this like she's an anti-vaxxer? 146 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,240 No, she's not. Well, not at this point, not openly at least. I see. Okay. Yeah. So she's just saying 147 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:13,200 like, this is what happened and I'm now recovering from this. Okay. I used to have whole body cancer. 148 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:20,400 Exactly. Okay. In the book, there is a quote that references this as well. Quote, you're dying. 149 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,720 You have six weeks, four months tops. End quote. According to Belle, this is how the doctor broke 150 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:34,080 the news to her in July of 2009 that she had had terminal brain cancer. And how old was she then? 151 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:42,720 In 2009, she was 20, 19. Okay. Because she was born in 91. Okay. Yeah. Also written in the book, 152 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,720 quote, I was empowering myself to have my own life through nutrition, patience, determination, 153 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,800 and love, end quote. So she's essentially saying like, yeah, I got this really shitty diagnosis. 154 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,760 But because of the things that I'm showing you in this book, I was able to come out of it on the 155 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:05,040 other side. Okay. So essentially like almost leaning towards like holistic medicine. Yeah, 156 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:10,960 but through nutrition. Yes. Or seemingly lifestyle change. Yeah. So in order to continue the growth 157 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,080 in her company, Belle would begin raising money to donate to multiple different charities, 158 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,720 including maternal health care and developing nations, medical support for children with 159 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,920 cancer, and school funding in Africa. Okay, but she's building her brand. Exactly. 160 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,320 These donations to charity reached nearly $300,000, which is really impressive. Wow. 161 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,800 When her book was launched in November of 2014, it stated in the preface that Belle had been, 162 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:45,280 quote, stable for two years now with no growth of the cancer. So she was recovering, right? She's 163 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,680 completely cancer free at this point. Well, in remission, right? Because they never claim cancer 164 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,920 free. Exactly. However, Belle's story would quickly become noticed as inconsistent as she would turn 165 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:02,240 to social media stating that her cancer had spread to her liver and kidneys. This is three months 166 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,920 prior to the book release. And then the book comes out saying stating that she's been in remission. 167 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:13,840 Okay. She also posted on the whole pantry's Facebook page that her cancer had spread to her 168 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,320 brain, blood, spleen, and uterus, similarly to what she was saying in the interview. 169 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,800 That had happened in the past, right? But now she's saying it's happened again. 170 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,840 She has also previously claimed to have undergone heart surgery several times around this time, 171 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,400 like she claimed around this time, and to have momentarily died on the operating table. 172 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,480 So she was like, yeah, I also had fucking heart surgery a couple times, died, yeah, came back. 173 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:50,480 Yeah, right. I mean, I mean, it could happen. I just, given her age, and, you know, and of course, 174 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:56,560 when things like this happen to young people, they do have a greater chance of surviving or 175 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,640 something like this. And they definitely have, I'm sorry, I cut you off. Thanks. Good. But they 176 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:09,440 have younger bodies and minds, and they tend to remain positive, right? And I'm sure reading her 177 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:16,000 story and stuff, maybe that is part of it, is because she seemingly has a really great outlook 178 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:22,720 on life, but that positivity could be a supporting factor in her recovery. 179 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,760 That's true. And also, like you mentioned, her age, it's not out of the realm of possibilities or 180 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:33,680 abnormal for someone of that age to kind of want to tell everyone like the gory details, if you will. 181 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,080 Like, they're okay with sharing it. They're not like, shame, whatever, you know, it would be 182 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,640 shame for a certain age, but still, it's like, oh, I'm gonna maybe even exaggerate a little bit on 183 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:48,240 my, you know, on my struggles because I'm a teenager. I want to be like inspo to other people. 184 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Yeah. Among other things that she would claim around this time, Belle stated that she had 185 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,960 had a stroke in the past, but she was unable to relay the names or information of the doctors 186 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:04,000 that had treated her previously in any of these cases. Who treated you? Oh my god, they cured 187 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,160 your cancer? I would like to know who that is. Oh, I can't remember. Oh, I can't remember. Okay, 188 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,680 DeeDee. And although she claimed to have undergone heart surgery, Belle did not appear to have any 189 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:19,280 scars. However, that would be a very personal area where the scar would be, right? Yeah, 190 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,160 though that was kind of a point I was going to bring up, like, well, did she have any scars? Like, 191 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520 who goes around being like, oh, yeah, to open a heart surgery? Wear your scars. Really see your 192 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:31,680 scars. Give me your scars. Yeah. Even though people had begun to realize that Belle's stories 193 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,240 were not exactly lighting up, the whole pantry was still releasing statements regarding the 194 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,800 benefits of exercise, healthy eating, and maintaining a positive mindset. I mean, like, 195 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,520 why wouldn't you though? That's your whole brand. Well, it's not just your brand, but like, it makes 196 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,760 good sense to take care of yourself, eat healthy exercise, things like that, right? 197 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Yes, for sure. The posts coming from the whole pantry were uncontroversal and were widely 198 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,560 acknowledged as conducive to holistic well-being. However, on her personal Instagram account and 199 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:08,480 other social media, Belle was now promoting more controversial alternative practices, such as 200 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:15,360 anti-vaccination, the consumption of non-pasteurized raw milk, and gersin therapy. What's gersin 201 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,400 therapy? So I'm glad you asked because this type of therapy is alleged to treat cancer patients 202 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,800 with a specific diet and nutritional supplies rather than medical treatment. Okay. So it's just 203 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:30,240 like a holistic way of like treating cancer that doesn't involve medicine. We did have a person 204 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:38,160 that was close to our family who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and they did nothing but 205 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:48,400 holistic raw fruit veg, not raw maybe, but as close to natural, organic foods as possible. 206 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,200 And I think she lived for four years that way before she passed. Yeah, I know you're talking 207 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,920 about and you know, to each his own, do what you think is appropriate, you know, but it was just, 208 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,800 at this point, it was kind of odd that like her brand is supporting all of these ideas that are 209 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,120 seemingly uncontroversal and then she has all these differing, if you will, opinions on her 210 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:12,640 personal social media. So going back to the gersin therapy, this had actually been similarly 211 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,360 promoted by another Australian wellness blogger by the name of Jessica Ainscough, 212 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:22,400 who would ultimately pass away in February of 2015 after her long battle with cancer. Yeah. 213 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,160 As far as the anti vaccination post that Bell was releasing, this caused a negative impact on 214 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:34,080 her social media. Because at this point, about 97% of Australian children under the age of seven 215 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,440 were vaccinated. And federal vaccination policy was heavily penalizing parents who refused to 216 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,320 vaccinate their children. Yeah. This being the case, Bell's followers were most likely on the 217 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:50,080 unapproving side of these kinds of posts. And lastly, the sale of raw milk for human consumption 218 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,640 is actually illegal in Australia. And there had been reports of five children dying from the 219 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:00,080 consumption of it in 2014. Yeah, I heard that too. Where else was there a milk hustle? There was a 220 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:10,000 milk hustle like that. Maybe it was US. Yeah. It is illegal to sell unpasteurized milk for human 221 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,040 consumption because it's dangerous. There's just bacteria and stuff. Yeah. So during this time, 222 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,640 people were starting to scrutinize Bell's posts. And allegations would also emerge that the charitable 223 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:26,880 donations raised by her company in 2013 and 14 had not been given to their intended causes. 224 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:34,880 Oh, okay, Amber heard. All right. Bell would deny the accusations, but Fairfax Media would state that 225 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:41,280 she had, quote, failed to hand over proceeds solicited in the name of five charities, end quote. 226 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:47,040 And that Bell had, quote, grossly overstated the company's total donations to different causes, 227 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:52,720 end quote. So it's like she just lied and she stole all this money and she used it for herself 228 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,480 and didn't give it to the charities. Yeah, exactly. That's definitely, that's so gross. 229 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,680 So gross. Like, oh yeah, like all the proceeds would go to St. Jude's. And then like you don't. 230 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:11,920 Splot twist, I changed my name to St. Jude. Look at the birth certificate. I was 12. 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Two other charities would also confirm to 238 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,760 the Australian newspaper that Bell's company had used their names in fundraising drives, 239 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,720 but had either failed to deliver the donations or had inadequately accounted for the funds. 240 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:15,360 Despite all of this, in 2014 Cosmopolitan had awarded Bell its 2014 Fun Fearless Female 241 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:20,320 Social Media Award, fully believing that she was struggling with all of the ailments that she said 242 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:27,360 she had. In early 2015, it was estimated that about $1 million had been made in sales of the 243 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:33,280 whole Pantry app and Bell's book. Bell would continue talking about her battle with cancer on 244 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:39,040 a blog of the whole pantry, but, quote, doubts about her claims surfaced after she failed to 245 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:46,160 deliver a promised $300,000 donation to a charity. End quote. It's gross. But she made like a million 246 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:52,880 that year. Yeah. So she can't donate $30,000? $300,000. $300,000. But she had promised to donate 247 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:59,760 that much already. Yeah. In March of 2015, media reports stated that it could only be confirmed 248 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,760 that an estimated $7,000 of the previously claimed $300,000 had been donated to a total of three 249 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:12,560 charities, with at least $1,000 of the 7K being donated only after Bell became aware of the Fairfax 250 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:18,160 investigations of her crimes. Oh my god. Give the money. There's money. Take it. So many. Yeah. 251 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:26,480 She's like, yeah, she also uses donate and pledge interchangeably. Yes. Another $1,000 had 252 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,320 actually been donated under Clive Rothwell's name rather than Bell's or the company. What? So he's 253 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:38,640 helping her out too. Yeah. Oh my god. Following these accusations becoming public, the whole 254 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,920 Pantry would amend their registrar to reflect what was actually donated. Sure. Obviously. You're 255 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:49,680 right. Also in March of 2015, the parents of a young child that was struggling with brain cancer, 256 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,320 whom Bell had befriended, would come forward and state that they were unaware that Bell had been 257 00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:02,720 claiming to be fundraising for their child's treatment on their behalf. That is so fucked up. 258 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:10,080 Like this is a child with actual brain cancer and you're profiting off it. You make me laugh. Now 259 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,520 I sound like a dick. Oh yeah, they're profiting off it. That's the quote. Like one of my favorite 260 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,080 quotes from the Grinch that she just said. That's why I may be allowed. She's like, 261 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:25,680 and the child mentioned a check. So good. Long fingers. This is horrible. The family reported 262 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:31,360 to never receiving any funds from Bell or the whole Pantry and had suspected that Bell had been using 263 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:37,200 information learned from the family's experiences to create a more realistic story for her own 264 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:44,240 diagnosis. Disgusting. Oh my god. She's like, yeah, my brain hurts like right here because that's 265 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,920 probably what he said, you know, or whatever. That is infuriating. It's sickening. As the 266 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,960 controversy grew, people were beginning to raise questions about Apple, Penguin Publishing, and 267 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,800 the Australian media's lack of due diligence at first knowledge of Bell's potential fraud. 268 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,600 Because everyone is now this investigation is open and people are still not doing anything about it. 269 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:11,520 Right. Apple responded to this and declined to remove the whole Pantry app from sale, 270 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,480 stating that their only concern was the functionality of the app. However, the whole 271 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,480 Pantry would soon after be removed from the inclusion and the Apple Watch launch. This is 272 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,800 right when the Apple Watch was coming out. Yeah. So they had all these like, because it was a health 273 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,080 thing, right? So they had all these ads that included like the whole Pantry Apple Watch. Like 274 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,040 when you get it, you can download it or whatever. Apple would shortly after remove the app from the 275 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Apple Store and would also remove it from all of the Apple Watch like promo material. 276 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,120 I mean, I get what they're saying. It's like, well, we just host the app. We don't know about 277 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,280 like, yeah, like that's not me, what it does or like any of that. I sort of who owns it and stuff. 278 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,600 But I think it, yeah, if they want to consider themselves to be an honorable brand, they should 279 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,480 respect those those thoughts, those ideas and who's behind that. For sure. Apple actually never 280 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,040 has publicly publicly commented regarding their reasoning behind removing the app. They're just 281 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:11,280 like, well, it's removed now. Don't worry about me. Lanturn books. So the people that publish 282 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,720 Bill's cookbook claimed that it had not confirmed the validity of her cancer claims as this was 283 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,280 not required for her to write a cookbook. Yeah. So they were like, not our fucking thing. Yeah. 284 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:28,080 It's just right in between like cookbooks and fantasy. Yeah. The fiction section. 285 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,680 The fiction part of novels. Yeah. So soon after as the controversy was growing, 286 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,640 the book would be withdrawn from sale, citing a lack of response from Bell relating to the media 287 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,320 accusation. So they did reach out to her, the publishing company or like what's going on. 288 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:50,160 And she didn't respond. However, Penguin Publishing had prior to the publication of the book already 289 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:56,880 quizzed and video taped Bell on her cancer story as it was recounted in the preface. So they knew 290 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:02,400 that what she was saying in the preface may not be true. Right. This being the case, Penguin agreed 291 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,800 to pay $30,000 to the Victorian Consumer Law Fund as a penalty for failing to validate the factual 292 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,240 content of the book. Okay. They took, yeah, they're, you know. Penguin's always been good. Yeah. 293 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,160 They aren't they the same people that published the book that we got sent to us for free by that 294 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,960 nice author? Yeah. Yeah. They're pretty open on their platform. I wouldn't say they're completely 295 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,320 open, but they're pretty open. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that's no old right to do that. Yeah. 296 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:35,360 Ella Australia magazine admitted that following a December 2014 story on Bell that they had received 297 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,480 but ultimately dismissed anonymous claims that she was fabricating her story. So they got told like, 298 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:46,160 hey, she might be lying. And they were like, well, it's fine. It's okay. It's a success story. Yeah. 299 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:55,520 Everybody loves this success story. Success story. Yes. I've only had one. So Cosmopolitan admitted, 300 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,640 again, the ones that gave her the award that it too had received and dismissed a similar email. 301 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:08,160 After finding out the claims of Bell being sick or false, Cosmopolitan decided not to strip Bell 302 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:14,080 of her award, stating that she had been quote, reader nominated and reader voted and quote. 303 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,720 And that's all they care about. They care about the readers, magazines or articles. That's what 304 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,520 they care about. They don't care if they're selling you a fake story. Of course. And they're like, 305 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,320 well, that's not up to us. That was the readers. Yeah. However, a month prior to the award, 306 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,840 a Cosmopolitan associate editor stated that they quote, put forward the nomination myself, 307 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:39,840 end quote, indicating that the magazine, not the public, had been instrumental in promoting Bell's 308 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:49,440 award. Liars. Liars. Gotcha. Gotcha, bitch. Bullshit. This is pineapple expressed. Yeah. 309 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,600 When James Franco and Seth Rogen go to Danny McBride's house and they confront him, 310 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,440 and then he's like, I'm just going to make a phone call call my wife. And then Seth Rogen's like, 311 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:08,320 nope, bullshit, liar. Sorry, headphone users. Danny McBride's hilarious. So funny. 312 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:14,560 Okay. Sorry about the story. A conventional cancer research professional would also go public around 313 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:21,520 this time and stated that by failing to conduct basic fact checking and providing unfiltered PR 314 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:27,040 to Bell's untested claims, an uncritical media had also been complicit in her fraud. 315 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,200 Good job. He's like, all you fucking dumbasses that believed her. You didn't do your research. 316 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,320 You didn't know that you probably can't have all these cancers at the same fucking time. And if 317 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,600 you did, you wouldn't live. Right. Well, yeah, it's just, it's not only that, but it's like, okay, 318 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:47,680 you clearly were not a part of this coup, but you were easily duped. Yeah. Bamboozled, if you will. 319 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:54,160 Bamboozled. So once the controversy with the media surfaced, the whole pantry began removing 320 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,440 any comments made on its Facebook page that questioned Bell's claims, asserting that these 321 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:05,360 comments only added to quote the misinformation end quote of the initial Fairfax article. 322 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,400 So they're deleting it so that no one would see it. Yeah. This would draw even more negative 323 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,560 comments, obviously. Simultaneously posts that Bell had made on her own Instagram account that made 324 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,440 reference to her cancers or donations were all deleted. Trying to cover her tracks so that 325 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,880 nobody comes after her legally, essentially. Soon after, all posts would be deleted from Bell's 326 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,560 and the whole pantry's Instagram accounts. Around the same time, individual postings about Bell's 327 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,320 cancer and claims of having died briefly while under heart surgery were also being deleted by the 328 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,960 administrator of her blog quote at the request of a user and quote. Why would a user give a shit? 329 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,600 One user. One user had a complaint and they're going to remove it. She's like, you gotta say 330 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,200 it's reader voted. You gotta say it's reader. Yeah. It's a reader requested. It's all about the readers. 331 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:02,320 Accounts across all social media were very soon either abandoned, made private, or deleted entirely 332 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,200 following this. Trying to like sneak away. Yeah. She's like, oh, well, just deleted in the night. 333 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,880 Yeah, it didn't happen. No, yeah. Bell would create another Facebook account under the alias 334 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:19,200 Harry Gibson, which was made private, but used to comment back at Facebook followers that 335 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,080 questioned Bell or spoke to the media. Oh my god. Why would you use your last name? Last name? I 336 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,440 guess it's supposed to look like maybe a relative of hers. Oh my god. Why? That's so 337 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:37,040 manipulative. What's so childish? It really is. In late April of 2015, Bell would give an interview 338 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:42,480 to the Australian Women's Weekly in which she admitted to having fabricated all of her cancer 339 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,040 claims. So she just came out and was like, yes, but could look finding on me on social media. 340 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:54,320 My name's totally not there. Quote, no, none of it's true. I don't want forgiveness. I just think 341 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,840 speaking out was the responsible thing to do. Above anything, I would like people to say, 342 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,760 okay, she's human. She's obviously had a big life. She's respectfully come to the table and said what 343 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,520 she's needed to say. And now it's time for her to grow and heal. End quote. You don't get to 344 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,640 dictate how people treat you. No. Not when you're not when you're in the public like that. I would 345 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:23,280 like it for people to just forgive me because I'm human. I stole millions of showers from cancer 346 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:29,840 patients. God, that's the arrogance, right? Out of control. The interviewer would later write 347 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:35,680 that Bell quote cries easily and muddles her words, end quote, and that she quote doesn't really 348 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,640 understand how cancer works, end quote. She thinks it's not funny, but that's not funny, but it's funny. 349 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:47,200 Bell would attribute her deceit to her upbringing and specifically to neglect by her now estranged 350 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,240 mother. She claimed to have been forced to take care of herself and her brother since the age of 351 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:58,720 five. The interview would be described as an admission of deceit without expression of regret 352 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:05,120 or apology. No, she blames it on everyone else. In a May 2015 interview with the same magazine, 353 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,280 Bell's mother Natalie would refute the claims that Bell had made about her family, 354 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,640 including the false claim that her brother had autism spectrum disorders. 355 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,160 She said that her brother had autism when he hadn't been diagnosed with autism. 356 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,960 Not at all. And she was saying like, oh, I always love to take care of my brother with 357 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,520 ASD at the age of five. Like how would anyone do that to me? Kind of. 358 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,880 What? And her mom's like, no, she a liar, clearly. It's literally like this. 359 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:33,120 I mean, come on. It's this pile of fucking lies like on top of each other. Like, how do you even 360 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:40,000 know what's true or what's not? You know, we've talked about that in several other cases where 361 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,120 people continue to lie to cover up their murders or the bad parts of them or whatever it is. 362 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,280 And they've lied and they've lied and they've lied and they manipulated, manipulated. But then 363 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,360 they find the pendulum swing the other way where it's like, oh, I'm getting attention for confessing 364 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,080 now. Yeah, exactly. Now it's like, oh, gosh, yeah, now I'm getting attention because I've had this 365 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,040 horrible life and what else am I supposed to do? Like this is clearly a product of my environment. 366 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:11,600 You know, like everyone's fault but mine. Exactly. Although she seemed pretty unwilling to apologize, 367 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:17,360 Belle would agree to do another interview on 60 Minutes with Tara Brown. Oh my God. She would 368 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,720 state here, quote, I didn't trade in on my story or in other people's lives. I'm not trying to get 369 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:28,480 away with anything and quote, then why did you delete the shed? Why did you delete the shed? 370 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,200 Leave it out. I'm not trying to get away with anything. Why are you hiding evidence? 371 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,480 Sorry. It's okay. You're clearly peeved at this person. No, yeah. 372 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:46,400 Why? Lately. Shed. Shed. Where's the receipts, Robin? Yes. Now, okay, this is so funny. I'm so 373 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,800 annoying over here. I'm like, we do one Instagram live and I'm doing all these things visually that 374 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:59,040 one can see. She was lightly clapping. I'm sure you could hear her. Oh, I'm sure you could, 375 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:06,560 but it's just funny. The fame has gone to my head. Oh no, here she goes. Mom told me that your son 376 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,560 told our niece that we're famous. Oh really? He told our niece, he's like, you know, my mom and Ken 377 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:18,560 are famous and she's like, really? I think that's so sweet. Do you listeners know why he's saying 378 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,160 that is because it kind of walks around the house saying that all the time. Don't blame it. 379 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,680 All right, Belle, don't blame it on me. Your product or your environment. You do. He walks around. 380 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,720 He doesn't. Famous. When I say like, we're pretty much famous. Like, I'm obviously kidding. Yeah, 381 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:39,040 he doesn't quite understand that yet and saying it satirically, but that's so funny. He probably 382 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:45,440 tells people at school like, my mom and my aunt are famous. So cute. He's so sweet. Okay, so back 383 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,400 to the interview with Tara Brown. During this interview, Belle was noted as being unable to be 384 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:56,720 truthful about little things still, including her name and her age, which she claims to have 385 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:03,360 changed several times. When asked specifically how old she was, Belle responded, quote, 386 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:09,040 that's probably a question we'll have to keep digging for and quote. Like she doesn't even know. 387 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,920 Yeah, like she's forgot because she's lied about it so many times. I believe it. Also coming out in 388 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,920 that interview, as Belle's revised story as of the interview, so she is now changing her story again, 389 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:28,080 she stated that in 2009, she met a man called Mark Johns who told her he was an immunologist 390 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:36,080 and neurologist. However, no record of him exists. Hmm. The following is Belle's explanation of this 391 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:45,680 visit. Oh no. He had come to my home and went through a series of tests and this was dubbed 392 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:52,960 integrative medicine. So he comes to your home and he does some tests on you. He does. What sort of tests? 393 00:37:54,640 --> 00:38:01,840 It was a box, a machine with lights on the front and that machine was apparently German technology. 394 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:08,240 There's a two pads, two metal pads, one that goes below the chair and one that goes behind your back 395 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:14,720 and then that measures what I believe or remember to be frequencies and what was the results. 396 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:29,840 He said to me that I had a stage four brain tumor and that I had approximately four months to live. 397 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:39,200 So again, that is from the 60 minute interview with Tara Brown. But I wanted to play this because 398 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,640 if you search this interview, it's extremely eerie to see how much she really believes like this is 399 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,960 what happened. Whether or not she's faking that she really believed it or if she really 400 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,120 truly believed at the time and then something will hear a lot. She'll say at the time, at the time a 401 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,600 lot. But it's like, you know, that long pause that she took. It was almost like she was trying to like 402 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,560 trying to make herself teary-eyed, right? Trying to make her voice break or 403 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:15,520 yeah, it's a what do they call that like pause for effect? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And of course, 404 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,960 if this is the true story, when you do recount information like someone giving you a diagnosis 405 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,280 like that, it might make you stop for a second because you don't want to get choked up. Yeah, 406 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,400 but she didn't even do that though. Yeah, she kind of just stood there blank or sat there blankly. 407 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,040 Yeah. And I think it's if you watch the whole you can find this whole thing on it's just on YouTube. 408 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,240 Tara will constantly challenge her and she'll be like, tell me the truth. Yes or no, tell me the 409 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,840 truth. I need you to tell me the truth. You know what I mean? She keeps saying that and then she's 410 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,360 like, do you hear how ridiculous this sounds? Yeah. But no, Tara is a really great, she should be an 411 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:58,000 interrogator, honestly. Certainly sounded like she was being like, it just sounds ridiculous that 412 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,320 there's like this machine that has blinking lights on it. Like she's in some type of 413 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:09,120 Scientology processing room or something. Exactly. Yeah, no, it's a weird, it's a weird 414 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:15,920 version of the story because there's plenty out there. Test your whatever. Probe. Kelvin's. 415 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,480 That's not the right term, but whatever they call it. You know what it is. So Kelvin's 416 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:26,960 temperature. Test your temperature. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Tara Brown would 417 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,640 question why Belle originally stated that she got this diagnosis in the doctor's office rather than 418 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,720 the quote real story that she told in her book. Yeah. So she had said it first like, oh, I got 419 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:41,040 diagnosed at a doctor's office and now she's saying it was at her home, right? Her harm. Her harm. 420 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,560 Belle responds to this quote, because I think that being open and telling people the way that it 421 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:53,200 happened would not be understood and that people would be disappointed or angry for me, you know, 422 00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:00,000 not following what is the right way to go about this end quote. So Tara asks quote, 423 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,000 so you lied because you feared you wouldn't be believed. Is that what you're saying? End quote. 424 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:10,560 To which Belle responds quote, it's not what I'm saying. End quote. Then what the fuck are you 425 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:17,200 saying? Like it's this this interview is infuriating because it's like it's just a hamster wheel. 426 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,560 Like they're not getting anywhere because she won't admit to anything. She won't take accountability 427 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,240 for anything. It's just a continued loop of thought. There's no like definitive end. There's no 428 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:35,120 answers. Yeah. Yeah. It's just another lie to help maybe confuse you or steer the conversation in a way. 429 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,320 You know, what's interesting about that is that I bet for a long time she got away with that pattern 430 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,600 of behavior because people around her probably didn't talk to each other. Yeah. She would feed one 431 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:51,040 lie to her mother, one to a teacher, one to a friend's parent. Yeah. You know, things like that. 432 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,800 And that word would never get around. She doesn't understand the severity of her situation where 433 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,720 nationally people are looking at her. Yeah. People talk. And people talk. And people are 434 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:08,000 can be internet sleuths and people can figure out this information. She thinks in that moment, 435 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,840 in that interview, she's having a one-on-one conversation with someone that she thinks that 436 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:17,600 she can manipulate. Exactly. That's so true. It's instead of realizing that an entire nation is 437 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,120 going to be watching this episode. For once, like an episode or whatever. Yeah. That's so true. 438 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,320 So yeah, the entire interview was just extremely frustrating. And I mean, 439 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,840 you can find it online and watch it if you want. I watched like five, 10 minutes of it. Okay. You're 440 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,440 like, I'm done. So did you imagine reading your entire book? No, really, it's probably 441 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:44,640 infuriating. So in June of 2015, it was rumored that Belle had actually been given $45,000 to do 442 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:50,000 this interview. $45,000? So that's why she did it. And that's why she was like, 443 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,320 fuck it, I don't have to be truthful. I'm getting this money anyway. 444 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,640 Well, I would think that for fuck's sake, she would send it to someone that she owes the money to. 445 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,280 Oh yeah, absolutely. An actual child with cancer. Yeah. No, of course not. 446 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,720 Consumer Affairs Victoria would bring legal action against Belle for allegedly breaking 447 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:14,480 Australian consumer law. The regulators have stated that it conducted an in-depth investigation 448 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,600 of Belle's activities and applied to Australia's federal court for leave to pursue legal action. 449 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:27,360 On March 15, 2017, federal court justice Deborah Mortimer delivered the decision that, quote, 450 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,600 most but not all end quote of the claims against Belle had been proven. 451 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,160 Belle would not appear in court for the decision. But justice Mortimer found that Belle's claims 452 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:44,080 had been misleading and deceptive. And that quote, Ms. Gibson had no reasonable basis to believe she 453 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,720 had cancer from the time she began making these claims in public to promote the whole pantry 454 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:57,840 book and the app in mid-2013. And quote. Gibson. Ms. Gibson. Belle Gibson. Belle Gibson. Yeah. 455 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:05,760 Belle Gibson. Gibson. Gibson. Gibson. Yes. Yeah, I bet she, A, okay, two points to make, A, 456 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,160 was not gonna sit in our courtroom full of people that probably believe that she was guilty. Yes. 457 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,120 And two, I love the fact that certain circumstances lend for the judge to be like, 458 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,240 I didn't even give a fuck if you're not here. This is your sentence. Yeah. And this is, 459 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:22,080 this is how the court finds you. There you go. I love it. Well, it's like, if you don't show up, 460 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,240 that makes yourself look way more guilty. I agree. But that's not always the case though, right? Of 461 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:32,000 course not. Yeah. You know, in cases like this. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've heard the story. 462 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:40,000 We know. However, there was not enough evidence to prove that Belle was not acting out of delusion. 463 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:45,920 So the question of her mental health is still like up there. Yeah. In September of 2017, 464 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:52,960 Belle would be fined $410,000 for making false claims about her donations to charity. 465 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,720 I bet she wish she had hung onto that $45,000. She got paid for that interview, 466 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:02,240 but I bet she didn't. I'm sure she did. During the ruling, Judge Mortimer ruled that 467 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:07,520 Belle's dishonest conduct proved, quote, her relentless obsession with herself and what best 468 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:14,400 serves her interests. And quote, she added, quote, one of the clear demonstrations of the 469 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:20,080 dishonesty and self-interest at handing Ms. Gibson's conduct was the fact that she and the company she 470 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,880 controlled did not make any donations to the organizations she had mentioned in her publicity 471 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:30,640 statements until public questioning of her claims. And quote, Amber, I know I said conduct. I meant 472 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:37,840 to say conduct. Lastly, Judge Mortimer stated, quote, another explanation is that Ms. Gibson 473 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:43,360 remained under some kind of delusion that she had cancer. She may have had other psychological or 474 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:53,520 psychiatric issues and quote. As of April 2019, Belle had not yet paid the fines and authorities 475 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:59,440 were seeking power to charge her with contempt of court. A new trial would be set for May 14th, 476 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,960 2019, and Belle would be facing an undetermined number of years if she could not attend. She 477 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:12,320 has to be there this time. As of mid-September 2019, Belle had still not paid, claiming to be broke, 478 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,480 and consumer affairs Victoria were still seeking to enforce the penalty. 479 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,640 All you have to do is sign up and be like, this is as much as I can pay every month. They don't 480 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,600 ask you to have all of that money at once. Yeah, exactly. No, you pay it off little by little. 481 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,560 Payment plan. Yeah, exactly. Or you get like a, I don't know if there's like loans. If anybody's 482 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,840 an attorney out there, do you get loans for something like that? Yeah, I mean, you might be 483 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,960 able to. I don't know, maybe not. You're gonna pay these fucking people back. You're not gonna pay me 484 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,800 back. Right, exactly. I mean, like a bail wants them and stuff like that. Like that's different. 485 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,600 That's to get you out. That's true. But when it comes to payments like that, like who takes care 486 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,600 of that? I think you would just have to sell your assets. You probably would. Or file for bankruptcy. 487 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,320 That's true. They would probably have to look into her stuff. But you're telling me through all 488 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,400 this time she's making all this money and she didn't buy a house, a car. Oh, she definitely did. 489 00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:02,480 Rings, yeah, furniture, you know, that's your money that you say that. Oh, in 2017, 490 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,120 I'm sorry, a letter that was written in 2017 would later be released by the federal court. 491 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:15,040 And Belle had stated that she was $170,000 in debt in this letter. And she had $5,000 to her name. 492 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:23,520 I'm like, that's more than I have. So pay it. I'm not broke. Fast forward to the year 2020. 493 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,680 Belle had still not paid the fines and was essentially MIA in the media. Oh, she just took off. 494 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:36,640 On January 22nd, 2020, the sheriff's office of Victoria raided Belle's home in North Cote and 495 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,560 would begin to seize items to try to pay off her fines. Hell yeah. The following day is Shabo Media 496 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:49,040 video from October of 2019 surfaced in which Belle was wearing a headscarf and speaking partially 497 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:54,640 in Ormo language, which is native to Ethiopia. Interesting. In the video, she was discussing 498 00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,240 the political situation in Ethiopia with an interviewer and referring to Ethiopia as quote 499 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:06,880 back home and quote, what? Like she was living there. She also professed to have been adopted 500 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:12,560 by the Ethiopian community in Melbourne after volunteering for four years, calling the adoption 501 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:19,200 a gift from Allah. However, on the same day the video surfaced, the president of the Australian 502 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:24,560 Oromo Community Association in Victoria stated that Belle was not a registered volunteer. 503 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,360 Yeah, he's like, no, no, they also say he did not happen and it will never happen. No, exactly. 504 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:34,160 They also stated that Belle quote is not a community member and she's also not working with the 505 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:39,520 community and quote. He said that he had seen her at events maybe two or three times, but she's 506 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,000 and no one knew who she was. She's specifically looking to victimize the community. Of course. 507 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,240 And she's also still lying about everything. Like, oh, well, now I'm part of this voluntary 508 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:52,400 community and I haven't four years. It's like, no, you're still doing what you were doing, 509 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,640 you know, seven years ago. What a fucking life. What a life to live. Like you think that you can 510 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:07,600 just chameleon your way into victimizing people. It's manipulative. Yeah, it's delusional. It really 511 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:15,360 is. Yeah. So Belle's home would be again rated on May 21st, 2021, for the same reason of receiving 512 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,800 things to pay off her debt. That's essentially the end of the story. But professionals have 513 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:28,640 determined that Belle is most likely suffering from Munchausen by internet. I know you would be 514 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,040 excited about that. What is this? So this is similar to fictitious disorder or Munchausen 515 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:39,040 disorder in which medically well individuals fake recognized illnesses in virtual environments, 516 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,960 such as online support groups, or now as we've seen it on TikTok or, you know, maybe it was Vine 517 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:50,400 back then, Instagram, whatever. She got the attention from the internet. Yes. Interesting. 518 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,520 While lying to receive medical attention is not a new concept, reports of users who deceive 519 00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:00,640 internet forum participants by portraying themselves as gravely ill or as victims of violence 520 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:06,640 first appeared in the 90s. This is of course due to the relative newness of the internet back in 521 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:14,560 the 90s. The specific internet pattern was named Munchausen by internet in 1998 by psychiatrist 522 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:22,080 Mark Feldman. So it's really new. Yeah. New Zealand PC World magazine called Munchausen by internet 523 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:32,480 Cyber Munch. And those who posted online, Cyber Munchers. I'm sorry. I'm looking for something 524 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:38,400 to hang on to. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I just want to say Cyber Munch. Cyber Munchers and Cyber Munchers. 525 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:45,280 I really want to go to New Zealand. I've always thought about going to New Zealand. I looked 526 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,440 recently, we have a bunch of listeners in New Zealand and we really love you guys. Okay. Yeah. 527 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:58,160 Start up. But Cyber Munchers is hilarious. Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers. 528 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:03,600 Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers. I don't know. That sounds like Manchester though. I don't know. 529 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,600 Manchester. That's not even how you say it. But still. Someone from New Zealand. 530 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,720 Please reach out to us. Yeah. Please reach out to us. But if you really, 531 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,880 really could do us a giant favor and send us an audio clip of you saying Cyber Munchers. 532 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:23,360 That would be amazing. That would be amazing. So going back to Cyber Munchers. A person may 533 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:28,320 attempt to gain sympathy from a group whose sole reason for existence is to support others such as 534 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:33,120 a popular media star. Like they have a following because they want, you know, whatever they want 535 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:40,240 to see them do well, you know. And lastly, in an article published by The Guardian, Steve Jones 536 00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:45,040 speculated that the anonymity of the internet impedes people's abilities to realize when someone's 537 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,080 lying. So it's much easier to manipulate people via the internet. And that's why. 538 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,840 Interesting. But yeah, that's all I have. That's Belle Gibson. As far as I know, 539 00:51:53,840 --> 00:52:01,360 she has not paid her debt yet and she's still scheming. Scheme in Ethiopia apparently. Well, 540 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:07,680 I don't know if she's in Ethiopia. She's in like an Aboriginal area. No, I think she's still in 541 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:14,320 Australia and she's saying like, oh, back home like she had lived there. That's so strange. I know. 542 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:23,600 It's a very odd story. I've heard of this new term recently. It's Cyber Munchers. Sorry. 543 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,640 Thanks for listening to this episode of Diagnosing a Killer. Cyber Munchers. 544 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:29,760 Cyber Munchers. 545 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,400 No, never mind. It's been a long day. I'm sorry. It's been a very long day. 546 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:43,440 That was a really interesting case. Thank you. It was. I like the opportunity on mental breakdowns 547 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:50,080 where we get to just discuss wild other things about diagnosis, but not necessarily pertain to 548 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:56,800 murder, but other crimes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I kind of like to use the MBDs as a little loophole 549 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,360 to talk about something interesting that maybe doesn't involve a murder. Yeah. Yeah. It was a 550 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:08,480 really interesting thing. And then, yeah, Munchhousen by internet. Yeah, never heard that before. 551 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:14,880 Wild, never. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Not only here, but on our live earlier. We had 552 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:21,440 such a great time and we will see you guys on Thursday with another case and Friday with our 553 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:28,880 live again. Yes. Anything else? No, just share that link on our Instagram. Yes. I put a link out 554 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,720 there earlier. I think it's been shared a few times. Okay, cool. And yeah, definitely just take 555 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:38,320 advantage of that $15 off. Why not? Yeah, right? All right. Okay, we'll see you guys later. Love you. Bye. 556 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:48,000 If you want great tasting meals daily, but can't find the time to shop or even cook, 557 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,600 we have the solution for you. Fresh Meal Plan is a convenient, easy way to create custom meals 558 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,640 delivered right to your door. 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