Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, The Mental Breakdown.
I'm Kena and I'm Ka'el and we just did a thing!
We were just on a live and we had a really positive response. I feel like people were
communicating really well. I liked seeing the community kind of chat with each other a little bit.
Yeah definitely. It was really cool to see the different areas that people were coming from
and just such a positive group of people. Yeah I think so. Great conversations. We will be doing
that again on Friday. That's going to be on what not as well. You'll probably hear this on Monday.
On Friday it's actually going to be more merch forward and there's actually a link
in the post about the live where you can get a discount. What did you say it was?
Yeah I believe if you're a first-time user and you sign up through our code which is
whatnot.com forward slash invite forward slash diagnosing a killer you should receive a $15
off your first purchase. That would be essentially a free shirt.
Yeah exactly. We're going to be pushing some upcycled stuff. I think our intention is to
have them on an auction. So essentially it's live eBay but there are also our new t-shirts,
the ones that have never been used. Those will also be in our buy it now or what they call a bin.
You can buy that anytime this week leading up to the show. Those I think there's only one style of
each of those posted right now so if you want to snag those before the live I suggest you do so.
They should be on our page when you go to what not and you go to diagnosing a killer.
There should be a little link that says like available now or marketplace I think.
Yeah definitely and if you do see a design that you see and you're like oh I want that and then
you wait till Friday it's not there we can always remake it but you would just need to order that
through our Instagram so through our forums. Yes through our forums or just send us a DM.
Yeah for sure. It works either way. Yeah exactly and I understand that the forms can be kind of
complicated for some so yeah if you see something on there and you're like well I don't really see
it offered in pink or I don't see it offered in the specific combination of a design just message us
and we love love love making custom stuff for you guys. For sure. Speaking of DMs I actually just
wanted to read a quick one that we received the other day that I thought was really nice.
So this is from a listener called Aimee and Aimee says hi I just wanted to send you guys a message
from all the way across the pond in the UK. I'm a psychology master's student in Cardiff and my
boyfriend lives in Dallas Texas working and voice acting and we both love the podcast. We tend to
fall asleep on the phone to FaceTime and something that we used to do was he would put on I survived
episodes for me to fall asleep to. I love that. I love I survived. She said when we finished all
those episodes we were trying to find something else we could listen to slash watch together when
we head to bed and I stumbled on your podcast. I'm hoping at some point to pursue a research
in clinical psychology and do a PhD in the States and hearing your podcast has honestly been such a
hyper fixation of mine for the last few months and led me to realize I have a keen interest in
forensic psychology. My boyfriend and I wanted to let you know that we absolutely love listening to
the show and we wanted to share how much we enjoy hearing them together even when we're far apart.
Aw, thanks Aimee. I love that. There's also a follow-up message that has a case suggestion
and she had also said they echo the hello every time they start an episode because it always gives
them a serotonin boost so it was like that makes me feel so good. I love that. Oh, that's great.
Yeah, no, definitely love hearing those messages from you guys and we try to reply to every single
one of them and we really appreciate you guys reaching out because it makes our day to know
that we make your day sometimes. Yeah. Before we begin our mentee breaky which actually needs to go
on a bracelet. I don't know why I haven't done that yet. Can we do one that sounds like mentee
breaky but it's got like a little cup of tea or like a coffee cup? Sure. Like brekkie? Like breaky?
Oh, sure. Yeah. Do you want to give everyone our handles on social media before we start?
Sure. You can catch us on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer other than X formally
known as Twitter which is at Killer Diagnosis. We also have a Venmo, a PayPal, a cash wrap.
We also have a Patreon. You get an added bonus episode for tier two and three Patreon members.
Tier one also gets access to ad-free episodes. Yeah. What else? Set up? Just get your tickets for
the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is happening on July 12th through the 14th
in Denver, Colorado. We are so excited to be there and if you join our live on what not on Friday,
you will see that we have made koozies specifically for this occasion. Yes. And we only have a couple
of them. So come join in and try to get you a koozie. If not, I can always make more of course.
But we'd like to... They're limited release. They are limited release. They're just for this year.
Exactly. Yeah. All right. You ready to get on into it? Let's do it.
So today for our mental breakdown, we are going to be talking about one scam artist by the name
of Annabelle Natalie Gibson. A scam artist? I was going to do like scam artists like and do a couple
of them, but this story was so long I was like, fucking, I'm just going to do her. Okay. So I
will probably be doing another scam artist eventually. But I don't think I want to do like
this is like a part one because it's just one story. Yeah. I just named, I guess I'll just name
the episode her name. I'm not sure yet. Not sure. We'll see. We'll see. You guys already know, but
we don't know yet. Content warning, this episode contains depictions of deceit, manipulation,
and taking advantage of vulnerable populations. If this episode is not for you, we encourage you
to find another one of our episodes. Remember, your mental health is very important and we love you.
Love you. Bye. So yeah, no moida or anything. No moida. Annabelle Natalie Gibson was born on
October 8th, 1991 in Launston, Tasmania to her mother Natalie Gibson. Gibson. So her middle
name was her mom's first name. Tasmania. That's interesting. In Australia. In Australia. The
identity of her father is unknown. Well, at least to me, I couldn't find it. But Natalie would
later marry one Andrew Dahl Bello when she would change her last name from Gibson. As far as I
could tell, Belle had one older brother, Nick, who was three-ish years older than her. According to
interviews that Belle has given, she would leave the family home at the age of 12 and begin living
with a classmate of hers. 12? Yes. Okay. Keep in mind, she's a scam artist. So essentially, this
sounds bad, but you really can't fully believe everything she says. It's fair. It's the way
I feel about Ezra, Ezra McCamless. I feel like everything out of that girl's mouth is just a
lie. A lie. And when you do it for so long, people, why wouldn't they think that? Yeah.
Belle would later leave this home as well, according to her, and begin living with a family
friend following this. There is not much known about Belle's early childhood, but she would attend
Wynhem State High School in Manly, Queensland. However, she would drop out in grade 10.
Belle was also noted as stating that she was homeschooled in a later interview. So again,
which is it? I know you're, I mean, not that you're too young, but a lot of people don't remember
the show. But Clone High was on MTV for a little bit. And it's essentially like exactly how it
sounds. They cloned historical figures that they're all in high school together. So they're very
angsty. And one was Abraham Lincoln. There's like Abraham Lincoln, Gandhi, Joan of Arc,
Cleopatra, and JFK. And so they're having like a presidential, what am I trying to say? Debate?
No, like a, like they're running? Yeah. Like a camp council. Oh, stuff, right? Like president of
student council. Oh, okay. And so, but it's JFK and Abraham Lincoln. Oh, God. And I'm sorry,
this is way too long. This tangent is too long. But it just reminds me of a, they had these
ad campaigns against each other. And JFK, this is all like, last year, Abraham Lincoln claimed he
was 15 years old. Oh my God. This year, he claims he's 16. Which is it, Abe? Better get your story
straight. That's like classic. That's what I wanted to say. Better get your story straight. Yeah,
that is so funny. Oh my God. I can't believe I don't know about that. Ah, Clone High. And I think
they want to revamp it, but I have no idea when or where. Yeah. So shortly after leaving high school,
Belle would begin working for some time as a trainee for a catering supply company named
PFD Food Services in Leighton. However, social media around this time seemed to suggest that by
late 2008, Belle had relocated to Perth, Western Australia. Did she just say, which is it, Belle?
I don't know. Which is it, Belle? This is just, these are all the things that, like, I'm like,
I'm going to give you all the information. You choose what you want to believe and what you don't.
Fair. Yeah. I like cases like that though. Yeah. Or you're just like, you know,
decipher on your own. I don't know. You tell me. I wasn't there. So here in Perth, Western Australia,
a 17 year old Belle would become involved in the skateboarding culture and would begin actively
participating on social media. She wanted to be like an influencer. Yeah. She's one of the new
influencers. She's not like others. In 2009, Belle would meet a man by the name of Clive
Rothwell and the two would shortly bring a little boy into the world. I love the Corbett.
Oliver. Okay. It was like literally like, I love Clive. I love Clive. Now I love Oliver too. I love
Corbett. Corbett. I've always told Casey that. I'm like, if I have a boy, I kind of want to name
Corbett. Yeah. Corbett. C-R-B-E-T-T. Corbett. Oh, like, yeah, like Corbett. Like Sorbet. There,
I've ruined it. No, there's two Ts at the end. If I had a little girl, I wanted to name her Margo.
Oh, that's cute. And, but traditionally spelt like Margot, you know, G-O-G-E. Oh, yeah. I had a
fun time in college that was named that. Yeah. I love that name, Margo. So around the same time
that Belle would have her little boy, she would also begin showing up on social media and gaining a
lot of traction surrounding her healthy living mindset and tips and tricks to maintain your
health. Okay. So she became like a health influencer. In August of 2013. Nobody can see me,
but I rolled my eyes. I'm surprised you couldn't hear me without how hard I rolled my eyes. I heard
you really right. Sounds like two marbles rolling around. What is funny? In August of 2013, at the
age of 21, Belle would release her self-made app by the name of The Whole Pantry. Hmm. After the app
was launched, The Whole Pantry was reportedly downloaded 200,000 times within its first month.
The Whole Pantry sounds really familiar. You probably know this, like about this at least.
So this app would subsequently be voted Apple's best food and drink app of 2013. Like, it got
really popular really fast. Okay. So definitely have heard of this. The Whole Pantry. Yeah.
Interesting. So the app consisted of healthy recipes and also wellness slash lifestyle
information that everyone seemed to really love. And this was during that time. I feel like,
I graduated high school in 2013 if anyone is wondering, but I feel like around this time,
that was when a lot of like influencers started becoming a thing. And it's like,
now there's so much presence on social media. People are now more self-conscious about how
they look because these people that they see are really fit and really, you know, active and all
this stuff. So I feel like everyone was eating this up, so to speak, this healthy lifestyle
and mindset, you know? Yeah. So this was honestly, unfortunately, the perfect time for her to launch
something like this. Vine was a thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, of course. So Belle would quickly
be reached out to by big companies wanting her to be interviewed and have her share more of her
trade secrets about the app and her lifestyle. Like the cloud. She has like the biggest head.
Yeah, for sure. She would soon after sign a book deal with Lantern Books and would begin
creating a tabletop cookbook. So it was almost like a cookbook meets like autobiography. Like
she would like put like certain things in her about herself in there and then be like, this is
why I lean towards this, you know, lifestyle change or whatever it was. But she has no education
or nutrition at all. Not that I know of. No, because she dropped out of high school, right?
You know, couldn't really tell if she went to college or not. It was almost like she was like
self educated. Yeah. Around this time, during these interviews that Belle was giving,
she would shockingly announce that she had suffered from malignant brain, blood, spleen,
uterine, liver and kidney cancers. What? What she had attributed to a reaction to the
Gardasil cervical cancer vaccine. Okay. So she's saying I did the Gardasil vaccine and I got
all of these. It was like metastasized throughout my whole body. I got all of these cancers,
but that was in the past. And now I'm using this healthy lifestyle to like get out. It helps me
out of that, essentially. Okay. But she's again, is this like she's an anti-vaxxer?
No, she's not. Well, not at this point, not openly at least. I see. Okay. Yeah. So she's just saying
like, this is what happened and I'm now recovering from this. Okay. I used to have whole body cancer.
Exactly. Okay. In the book, there is a quote that references this as well. Quote, you're dying.
You have six weeks, four months tops. End quote. According to Belle, this is how the doctor broke
the news to her in July of 2009 that she had had terminal brain cancer. And how old was she then?
In 2009, she was 20, 19. Okay. Because she was born in 91. Okay. Yeah. Also written in the book,
quote, I was empowering myself to have my own life through nutrition, patience, determination,
and love, end quote. So she's essentially saying like, yeah, I got this really shitty diagnosis.
But because of the things that I'm showing you in this book, I was able to come out of it on the
other side. Okay. So essentially like almost leaning towards like holistic medicine. Yeah,
but through nutrition. Yes. Or seemingly lifestyle change. Yeah. So in order to continue the growth
in her company, Belle would begin raising money to donate to multiple different charities,
including maternal health care and developing nations, medical support for children with
cancer, and school funding in Africa. Okay, but she's building her brand. Exactly.
These donations to charity reached nearly $300,000, which is really impressive. Wow.
When her book was launched in November of 2014, it stated in the preface that Belle had been,
quote, stable for two years now with no growth of the cancer. So she was recovering, right? She's
completely cancer free at this point. Well, in remission, right? Because they never claim cancer
free. Exactly. However, Belle's story would quickly become noticed as inconsistent as she would turn
to social media stating that her cancer had spread to her liver and kidneys. This is three months
prior to the book release. And then the book comes out saying stating that she's been in remission.
Okay. She also posted on the whole pantry's Facebook page that her cancer had spread to her
brain, blood, spleen, and uterus, similarly to what she was saying in the interview.
That had happened in the past, right? But now she's saying it's happened again.
She has also previously claimed to have undergone heart surgery several times around this time,
like she claimed around this time, and to have momentarily died on the operating table.
So she was like, yeah, I also had fucking heart surgery a couple times, died, yeah, came back.
Yeah, right. I mean, I mean, it could happen. I just, given her age, and, you know, and of course,
when things like this happen to young people, they do have a greater chance of surviving or
something like this. And they definitely have, I'm sorry, I cut you off. Thanks. Good. But they
have younger bodies and minds, and they tend to remain positive, right? And I'm sure reading her
story and stuff, maybe that is part of it, is because she seemingly has a really great outlook
on life, but that positivity could be a supporting factor in her recovery.
That's true. And also, like you mentioned, her age, it's not out of the realm of possibilities or
abnormal for someone of that age to kind of want to tell everyone like the gory details, if you will.
Like, they're okay with sharing it. They're not like, shame, whatever, you know, it would be
shame for a certain age, but still, it's like, oh, I'm gonna maybe even exaggerate a little bit on
my, you know, on my struggles because I'm a teenager. I want to be like inspo to other people.
Yeah. Among other things that she would claim around this time, Belle stated that she had
had a stroke in the past, but she was unable to relay the names or information of the doctors
that had treated her previously in any of these cases. Who treated you? Oh my god, they cured
your cancer? I would like to know who that is. Oh, I can't remember. Oh, I can't remember. Okay,
DeeDee. And although she claimed to have undergone heart surgery, Belle did not appear to have any
scars. However, that would be a very personal area where the scar would be, right? Yeah,
though that was kind of a point I was going to bring up, like, well, did she have any scars? Like,
who goes around being like, oh, yeah, to open a heart surgery? Wear your scars. Really see your
scars. Give me your scars. Yeah. Even though people had begun to realize that Belle's stories
were not exactly lighting up, the whole pantry was still releasing statements regarding the
benefits of exercise, healthy eating, and maintaining a positive mindset. I mean, like,
why wouldn't you though? That's your whole brand. Well, it's not just your brand, but like, it makes
good sense to take care of yourself, eat healthy exercise, things like that, right?
Yes, for sure. The posts coming from the whole pantry were uncontroversal and were widely
acknowledged as conducive to holistic well-being. However, on her personal Instagram account and
other social media, Belle was now promoting more controversial alternative practices, such as
anti-vaccination, the consumption of non-pasteurized raw milk, and gersin therapy. What's gersin
therapy? So I'm glad you asked because this type of therapy is alleged to treat cancer patients
with a specific diet and nutritional supplies rather than medical treatment. Okay. So it's just
like a holistic way of like treating cancer that doesn't involve medicine. We did have a person
that was close to our family who was diagnosed with terminal cancer and they did nothing but
holistic raw fruit veg, not raw maybe, but as close to natural, organic foods as possible.
And I think she lived for four years that way before she passed. Yeah, I know you're talking
about and you know, to each his own, do what you think is appropriate, you know, but it was just,
at this point, it was kind of odd that like her brand is supporting all of these ideas that are
seemingly uncontroversal and then she has all these differing, if you will, opinions on her
personal social media. So going back to the gersin therapy, this had actually been similarly
promoted by another Australian wellness blogger by the name of Jessica Ainscough,
who would ultimately pass away in February of 2015 after her long battle with cancer. Yeah.
As far as the anti vaccination post that Bell was releasing, this caused a negative impact on
her social media. Because at this point, about 97% of Australian children under the age of seven
were vaccinated. And federal vaccination policy was heavily penalizing parents who refused to
vaccinate their children. Yeah. This being the case, Bell's followers were most likely on the
unapproving side of these kinds of posts. And lastly, the sale of raw milk for human consumption
is actually illegal in Australia. And there had been reports of five children dying from the
consumption of it in 2014. Yeah, I heard that too. Where else was there a milk hustle? There was a
milk hustle like that. Maybe it was US. Yeah. It is illegal to sell unpasteurized milk for human
consumption because it's dangerous. There's just bacteria and stuff. Yeah. So during this time,
people were starting to scrutinize Bell's posts. And allegations would also emerge that the charitable
donations raised by her company in 2013 and 14 had not been given to their intended causes.
Oh, okay, Amber heard. All right. Bell would deny the accusations, but Fairfax Media would state that
she had, quote, failed to hand over proceeds solicited in the name of five charities, end quote.
And that Bell had, quote, grossly overstated the company's total donations to different causes,
end quote. So it's like she just lied and she stole all this money and she used it for herself
and didn't give it to the charities. Yeah, exactly. That's definitely, that's so gross.
So gross. Like, oh yeah, like all the proceeds would go to St. Jude's. And then like you don't.
Splot twist, I changed my name to St. Jude. Look at the birth certificate. I was 12. Seriously.
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receive an exclusive offer today with Craft Beer Club. Two other charities would also confirm to
the Australian newspaper that Bell's company had used their names in fundraising drives,
but had either failed to deliver the donations or had inadequately accounted for the funds.
Despite all of this, in 2014 Cosmopolitan had awarded Bell its 2014 Fun Fearless Female
Social Media Award, fully believing that she was struggling with all of the ailments that she said
she had. In early 2015, it was estimated that about $1 million had been made in sales of the
whole Pantry app and Bell's book. Bell would continue talking about her battle with cancer on
a blog of the whole pantry, but, quote, doubts about her claims surfaced after she failed to
deliver a promised $300,000 donation to a charity. End quote. It's gross. But she made like a million
that year. Yeah. So she can't donate $30,000? $300,000. $300,000. But she had promised to donate
that much already. Yeah. In March of 2015, media reports stated that it could only be confirmed
that an estimated $7,000 of the previously claimed $300,000 had been donated to a total of three
charities, with at least $1,000 of the 7K being donated only after Bell became aware of the Fairfax
investigations of her crimes. Oh my god. Give the money. There's money. Take it. So many. Yeah.
She's like, yeah, she also uses donate and pledge interchangeably. Yes. Another $1,000 had
actually been donated under Clive Rothwell's name rather than Bell's or the company. What? So he's
helping her out too. Yeah. Oh my god. Following these accusations becoming public, the whole
Pantry would amend their registrar to reflect what was actually donated. Sure. Obviously. You're
right. Also in March of 2015, the parents of a young child that was struggling with brain cancer,
whom Bell had befriended, would come forward and state that they were unaware that Bell had been
claiming to be fundraising for their child's treatment on their behalf. That is so fucked up.
Like this is a child with actual brain cancer and you're profiting off it. You make me laugh. Now
I sound like a dick. Oh yeah, they're profiting off it. That's the quote. Like one of my favorite
quotes from the Grinch that she just said. That's why I may be allowed. She's like,
and the child mentioned a check. So good. Long fingers. This is horrible. The family reported
to never receiving any funds from Bell or the whole Pantry and had suspected that Bell had been using
information learned from the family's experiences to create a more realistic story for her own
diagnosis. Disgusting. Oh my god. She's like, yeah, my brain hurts like right here because that's
probably what he said, you know, or whatever. That is infuriating. It's sickening. As the
controversy grew, people were beginning to raise questions about Apple, Penguin Publishing, and
the Australian media's lack of due diligence at first knowledge of Bell's potential fraud.
Because everyone is now this investigation is open and people are still not doing anything about it.
Right. Apple responded to this and declined to remove the whole Pantry app from sale,
stating that their only concern was the functionality of the app. However, the whole
Pantry would soon after be removed from the inclusion and the Apple Watch launch. This is
right when the Apple Watch was coming out. Yeah. So they had all these like, because it was a health
thing, right? So they had all these ads that included like the whole Pantry Apple Watch. Like
when you get it, you can download it or whatever. Apple would shortly after remove the app from the
Apple Store and would also remove it from all of the Apple Watch like promo material.
I mean, I get what they're saying. It's like, well, we just host the app. We don't know about
like, yeah, like that's not me, what it does or like any of that. I sort of who owns it and stuff.
But I think it, yeah, if they want to consider themselves to be an honorable brand, they should
respect those those thoughts, those ideas and who's behind that. For sure. Apple actually never
has publicly publicly commented regarding their reasoning behind removing the app. They're just
like, well, it's removed now. Don't worry about me. Lanturn books. So the people that publish
Bill's cookbook claimed that it had not confirmed the validity of her cancer claims as this was
not required for her to write a cookbook. Yeah. So they were like, not our fucking thing. Yeah.
It's just right in between like cookbooks and fantasy. Yeah. The fiction section.
The fiction part of novels. Yeah. So soon after as the controversy was growing,
the book would be withdrawn from sale, citing a lack of response from Bell relating to the media
accusation. So they did reach out to her, the publishing company or like what's going on.
And she didn't respond. However, Penguin Publishing had prior to the publication of the book already
quizzed and video taped Bell on her cancer story as it was recounted in the preface. So they knew
that what she was saying in the preface may not be true. Right. This being the case, Penguin agreed
to pay $30,000 to the Victorian Consumer Law Fund as a penalty for failing to validate the factual
content of the book. Okay. They took, yeah, they're, you know. Penguin's always been good. Yeah.
They aren't they the same people that published the book that we got sent to us for free by that
nice author? Yeah. Yeah. They're pretty open on their platform. I wouldn't say they're completely
open, but they're pretty open. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that's no old right to do that. Yeah.
Ella Australia magazine admitted that following a December 2014 story on Bell that they had received
but ultimately dismissed anonymous claims that she was fabricating her story. So they got told like,
hey, she might be lying. And they were like, well, it's fine. It's okay. It's a success story. Yeah.
Everybody loves this success story. Success story. Yes. I've only had one. So Cosmopolitan admitted,
again, the ones that gave her the award that it too had received and dismissed a similar email.
After finding out the claims of Bell being sick or false, Cosmopolitan decided not to strip Bell
of her award, stating that she had been quote, reader nominated and reader voted and quote.
And that's all they care about. They care about the readers, magazines or articles. That's what
they care about. They don't care if they're selling you a fake story. Of course. And they're like,
well, that's not up to us. That was the readers. Yeah. However, a month prior to the award,
a Cosmopolitan associate editor stated that they quote, put forward the nomination myself,
end quote, indicating that the magazine, not the public, had been instrumental in promoting Bell's
award. Liars. Liars. Gotcha. Gotcha, bitch. Bullshit. This is pineapple expressed. Yeah.
When James Franco and Seth Rogen go to Danny McBride's house and they confront him,
and then he's like, I'm just going to make a phone call call my wife. And then Seth Rogen's like,
nope, bullshit, liar. Sorry, headphone users. Danny McBride's hilarious. So funny.
Okay. Sorry about the story. A conventional cancer research professional would also go public around
this time and stated that by failing to conduct basic fact checking and providing unfiltered PR
to Bell's untested claims, an uncritical media had also been complicit in her fraud.
Good job. He's like, all you fucking dumbasses that believed her. You didn't do your research.
You didn't know that you probably can't have all these cancers at the same fucking time. And if
you did, you wouldn't live. Right. Well, yeah, it's just, it's not only that, but it's like, okay,
you clearly were not a part of this coup, but you were easily duped. Yeah. Bamboozled, if you will.
Bamboozled. So once the controversy with the media surfaced, the whole pantry began removing
any comments made on its Facebook page that questioned Bell's claims, asserting that these
comments only added to quote the misinformation end quote of the initial Fairfax article.
So they're deleting it so that no one would see it. Yeah. This would draw even more negative
comments, obviously. Simultaneously posts that Bell had made on her own Instagram account that made
reference to her cancers or donations were all deleted. Trying to cover her tracks so that
nobody comes after her legally, essentially. Soon after, all posts would be deleted from Bell's
and the whole pantry's Instagram accounts. Around the same time, individual postings about Bell's
cancer and claims of having died briefly while under heart surgery were also being deleted by the
administrator of her blog quote at the request of a user and quote. Why would a user give a shit?
One user. One user had a complaint and they're going to remove it. She's like, you gotta say
it's reader voted. You gotta say it's reader. Yeah. It's a reader requested. It's all about the readers.
Accounts across all social media were very soon either abandoned, made private, or deleted entirely
following this. Trying to like sneak away. Yeah. She's like, oh, well, just deleted in the night.
Yeah, it didn't happen. No, yeah. Bell would create another Facebook account under the alias
Harry Gibson, which was made private, but used to comment back at Facebook followers that
questioned Bell or spoke to the media. Oh my god. Why would you use your last name? Last name? I
guess it's supposed to look like maybe a relative of hers. Oh my god. Why? That's so
manipulative. What's so childish? It really is. In late April of 2015, Bell would give an interview
to the Australian Women's Weekly in which she admitted to having fabricated all of her cancer
claims. So she just came out and was like, yes, but could look finding on me on social media.
My name's totally not there. Quote, no, none of it's true. I don't want forgiveness. I just think
speaking out was the responsible thing to do. Above anything, I would like people to say,
okay, she's human. She's obviously had a big life. She's respectfully come to the table and said what
she's needed to say. And now it's time for her to grow and heal. End quote. You don't get to
dictate how people treat you. No. Not when you're not when you're in the public like that. I would
like it for people to just forgive me because I'm human. I stole millions of showers from cancer
patients. God, that's the arrogance, right? Out of control. The interviewer would later write
that Bell quote cries easily and muddles her words, end quote, and that she quote doesn't really
understand how cancer works, end quote. She thinks it's not funny, but that's not funny, but it's funny.
Bell would attribute her deceit to her upbringing and specifically to neglect by her now estranged
mother. She claimed to have been forced to take care of herself and her brother since the age of
five. The interview would be described as an admission of deceit without expression of regret
or apology. No, she blames it on everyone else. In a May 2015 interview with the same magazine,
Bell's mother Natalie would refute the claims that Bell had made about her family,
including the false claim that her brother had autism spectrum disorders.
She said that her brother had autism when he hadn't been diagnosed with autism.
Not at all. And she was saying like, oh, I always love to take care of my brother with
ASD at the age of five. Like how would anyone do that to me? Kind of.
What? And her mom's like, no, she a liar, clearly. It's literally like this.
I mean, come on. It's this pile of fucking lies like on top of each other. Like, how do you even
know what's true or what's not? You know, we've talked about that in several other cases where
people continue to lie to cover up their murders or the bad parts of them or whatever it is.
And they've lied and they've lied and they've lied and they manipulated, manipulated. But then
they find the pendulum swing the other way where it's like, oh, I'm getting attention for confessing
now. Yeah, exactly. Now it's like, oh, gosh, yeah, now I'm getting attention because I've had this
horrible life and what else am I supposed to do? Like this is clearly a product of my environment.
You know, like everyone's fault but mine. Exactly. Although she seemed pretty unwilling to apologize,
Belle would agree to do another interview on 60 Minutes with Tara Brown. Oh my God. She would
state here, quote, I didn't trade in on my story or in other people's lives. I'm not trying to get
away with anything and quote, then why did you delete the shed? Why did you delete the shed?
Leave it out. I'm not trying to get away with anything. Why are you hiding evidence?
Sorry. It's okay. You're clearly peeved at this person. No, yeah.
Why? Lately. Shed. Shed. Where's the receipts, Robin? Yes. Now, okay, this is so funny. I'm so
annoying over here. I'm like, we do one Instagram live and I'm doing all these things visually that
one can see. She was lightly clapping. I'm sure you could hear her. Oh, I'm sure you could,
but it's just funny. The fame has gone to my head. Oh no, here she goes. Mom told me that your son
told our niece that we're famous. Oh really? He told our niece, he's like, you know, my mom and Ken
are famous and she's like, really? I think that's so sweet. Do you listeners know why he's saying
that is because it kind of walks around the house saying that all the time. Don't blame it.
All right, Belle, don't blame it on me. Your product or your environment. You do. He walks around.
He doesn't. Famous. When I say like, we're pretty much famous. Like, I'm obviously kidding. Yeah,
he doesn't quite understand that yet and saying it satirically, but that's so funny. He probably
tells people at school like, my mom and my aunt are famous. So cute. He's so sweet. Okay, so back
to the interview with Tara Brown. During this interview, Belle was noted as being unable to be
truthful about little things still, including her name and her age, which she claims to have
changed several times. When asked specifically how old she was, Belle responded, quote,
that's probably a question we'll have to keep digging for and quote. Like she doesn't even know.
Yeah, like she's forgot because she's lied about it so many times. I believe it. Also coming out in
that interview, as Belle's revised story as of the interview, so she is now changing her story again,
she stated that in 2009, she met a man called Mark Johns who told her he was an immunologist
and neurologist. However, no record of him exists. Hmm. The following is Belle's explanation of this
visit. Oh no. He had come to my home and went through a series of tests and this was dubbed
integrative medicine. So he comes to your home and he does some tests on you. He does. What sort of tests?
It was a box, a machine with lights on the front and that machine was apparently German technology.
There's a two pads, two metal pads, one that goes below the chair and one that goes behind your back
and then that measures what I believe or remember to be frequencies and what was the results.
He said to me that I had a stage four brain tumor and that I had approximately four months to live.
So again, that is from the 60 minute interview with Tara Brown. But I wanted to play this because
if you search this interview, it's extremely eerie to see how much she really believes like this is
what happened. Whether or not she's faking that she really believed it or if she really
truly believed at the time and then something will hear a lot. She'll say at the time, at the time a
lot. But it's like, you know, that long pause that she took. It was almost like she was trying to like
trying to make herself teary-eyed, right? Trying to make her voice break or
yeah, it's a what do they call that like pause for effect? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And of course,
if this is the true story, when you do recount information like someone giving you a diagnosis
like that, it might make you stop for a second because you don't want to get choked up. Yeah,
but she didn't even do that though. Yeah, she kind of just stood there blank or sat there blankly.
Yeah. And I think it's if you watch the whole you can find this whole thing on it's just on YouTube.
Tara will constantly challenge her and she'll be like, tell me the truth. Yes or no, tell me the
truth. I need you to tell me the truth. You know what I mean? She keeps saying that and then she's
like, do you hear how ridiculous this sounds? Yeah. But no, Tara is a really great, she should be an
interrogator, honestly. Certainly sounded like she was being like, it just sounds ridiculous that
there's like this machine that has blinking lights on it. Like she's in some type of
Scientology processing room or something. Exactly. Yeah, no, it's a weird, it's a weird
version of the story because there's plenty out there. Test your whatever. Probe. Kelvin's.
That's not the right term, but whatever they call it. You know what it is. So Kelvin's
temperature. Test your temperature. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Tara Brown would
question why Belle originally stated that she got this diagnosis in the doctor's office rather than
the quote real story that she told in her book. Yeah. So she had said it first like, oh, I got
diagnosed at a doctor's office and now she's saying it was at her home, right? Her harm. Her harm.
Belle responds to this quote, because I think that being open and telling people the way that it
happened would not be understood and that people would be disappointed or angry for me, you know,
not following what is the right way to go about this end quote. So Tara asks quote,
so you lied because you feared you wouldn't be believed. Is that what you're saying? End quote.
To which Belle responds quote, it's not what I'm saying. End quote. Then what the fuck are you
saying? Like it's this this interview is infuriating because it's like it's just a hamster wheel.
Like they're not getting anywhere because she won't admit to anything. She won't take accountability
for anything. It's just a continued loop of thought. There's no like definitive end. There's no
answers. Yeah. Yeah. It's just another lie to help maybe confuse you or steer the conversation in a way.
You know, what's interesting about that is that I bet for a long time she got away with that pattern
of behavior because people around her probably didn't talk to each other. Yeah. She would feed one
lie to her mother, one to a teacher, one to a friend's parent. Yeah. You know, things like that.
And that word would never get around. She doesn't understand the severity of her situation where
nationally people are looking at her. Yeah. People talk. And people talk. And people are
can be internet sleuths and people can figure out this information. She thinks in that moment,
in that interview, she's having a one-on-one conversation with someone that she thinks that
she can manipulate. Exactly. That's so true. It's instead of realizing that an entire nation is
going to be watching this episode. For once, like an episode or whatever. Yeah. That's so true.
So yeah, the entire interview was just extremely frustrating. And I mean,
you can find it online and watch it if you want. I watched like five, 10 minutes of it. Okay. You're
like, I'm done. So did you imagine reading your entire book? No, really, it's probably
infuriating. So in June of 2015, it was rumored that Belle had actually been given $45,000 to do
this interview. $45,000? So that's why she did it. And that's why she was like,
fuck it, I don't have to be truthful. I'm getting this money anyway.
Well, I would think that for fuck's sake, she would send it to someone that she owes the money to.
Oh yeah, absolutely. An actual child with cancer. Yeah. No, of course not.
Consumer Affairs Victoria would bring legal action against Belle for allegedly breaking
Australian consumer law. The regulators have stated that it conducted an in-depth investigation
of Belle's activities and applied to Australia's federal court for leave to pursue legal action.
On March 15, 2017, federal court justice Deborah Mortimer delivered the decision that, quote,
most but not all end quote of the claims against Belle had been proven.
Belle would not appear in court for the decision. But justice Mortimer found that Belle's claims
had been misleading and deceptive. And that quote, Ms. Gibson had no reasonable basis to believe she
had cancer from the time she began making these claims in public to promote the whole pantry
book and the app in mid-2013. And quote. Gibson. Ms. Gibson. Belle Gibson. Belle Gibson. Yeah.
Belle Gibson. Gibson. Gibson. Gibson. Yes. Yeah, I bet she, A, okay, two points to make, A,
was not gonna sit in our courtroom full of people that probably believe that she was guilty. Yes.
And two, I love the fact that certain circumstances lend for the judge to be like,
I didn't even give a fuck if you're not here. This is your sentence. Yeah. And this is,
this is how the court finds you. There you go. I love it. Well, it's like, if you don't show up,
that makes yourself look way more guilty. I agree. But that's not always the case though, right? Of
course not. Yeah. You know, in cases like this. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've heard the story.
We know. However, there was not enough evidence to prove that Belle was not acting out of delusion.
So the question of her mental health is still like up there. Yeah. In September of 2017,
Belle would be fined $410,000 for making false claims about her donations to charity.
I bet she wish she had hung onto that $45,000. She got paid for that interview,
but I bet she didn't. I'm sure she did. During the ruling, Judge Mortimer ruled that
Belle's dishonest conduct proved, quote, her relentless obsession with herself and what best
serves her interests. And quote, she added, quote, one of the clear demonstrations of the
dishonesty and self-interest at handing Ms. Gibson's conduct was the fact that she and the company she
controlled did not make any donations to the organizations she had mentioned in her publicity
statements until public questioning of her claims. And quote, Amber, I know I said conduct. I meant
to say conduct. Lastly, Judge Mortimer stated, quote, another explanation is that Ms. Gibson
remained under some kind of delusion that she had cancer. She may have had other psychological or
psychiatric issues and quote. As of April 2019, Belle had not yet paid the fines and authorities
were seeking power to charge her with contempt of court. A new trial would be set for May 14th,
2019, and Belle would be facing an undetermined number of years if she could not attend. She
has to be there this time. As of mid-September 2019, Belle had still not paid, claiming to be broke,
and consumer affairs Victoria were still seeking to enforce the penalty.
All you have to do is sign up and be like, this is as much as I can pay every month. They don't
ask you to have all of that money at once. Yeah, exactly. No, you pay it off little by little.
Payment plan. Yeah, exactly. Or you get like a, I don't know if there's like loans. If anybody's
an attorney out there, do you get loans for something like that? Yeah, I mean, you might be
able to. I don't know, maybe not. You're gonna pay these fucking people back. You're not gonna pay me
back. Right, exactly. I mean, like a bail wants them and stuff like that. Like that's different.
That's to get you out. That's true. But when it comes to payments like that, like who takes care
of that? I think you would just have to sell your assets. You probably would. Or file for bankruptcy.
That's true. They would probably have to look into her stuff. But you're telling me through all
this time she's making all this money and she didn't buy a house, a car. Oh, she definitely did.
Rings, yeah, furniture, you know, that's your money that you say that. Oh, in 2017,
I'm sorry, a letter that was written in 2017 would later be released by the federal court.
And Belle had stated that she was $170,000 in debt in this letter. And she had $5,000 to her name.
I'm like, that's more than I have. So pay it. I'm not broke. Fast forward to the year 2020.
Belle had still not paid the fines and was essentially MIA in the media. Oh, she just took off.
On January 22nd, 2020, the sheriff's office of Victoria raided Belle's home in North Cote and
would begin to seize items to try to pay off her fines. Hell yeah. The following day is Shabo Media
video from October of 2019 surfaced in which Belle was wearing a headscarf and speaking partially
in Ormo language, which is native to Ethiopia. Interesting. In the video, she was discussing
the political situation in Ethiopia with an interviewer and referring to Ethiopia as quote
back home and quote, what? Like she was living there. She also professed to have been adopted
by the Ethiopian community in Melbourne after volunteering for four years, calling the adoption
a gift from Allah. However, on the same day the video surfaced, the president of the Australian
Oromo Community Association in Victoria stated that Belle was not a registered volunteer.
Yeah, he's like, no, no, they also say he did not happen and it will never happen. No, exactly.
They also stated that Belle quote is not a community member and she's also not working with the
community and quote. He said that he had seen her at events maybe two or three times, but she's
and no one knew who she was. She's specifically looking to victimize the community. Of course.
And she's also still lying about everything. Like, oh, well, now I'm part of this voluntary
community and I haven't four years. It's like, no, you're still doing what you were doing,
you know, seven years ago. What a fucking life. What a life to live. Like you think that you can
just chameleon your way into victimizing people. It's manipulative. Yeah, it's delusional. It really
is. Yeah. So Belle's home would be again rated on May 21st, 2021, for the same reason of receiving
things to pay off her debt. That's essentially the end of the story. But professionals have
determined that Belle is most likely suffering from Munchausen by internet. I know you would be
excited about that. What is this? So this is similar to fictitious disorder or Munchausen
disorder in which medically well individuals fake recognized illnesses in virtual environments,
such as online support groups, or now as we've seen it on TikTok or, you know, maybe it was Vine
back then, Instagram, whatever. She got the attention from the internet. Yes. Interesting.
While lying to receive medical attention is not a new concept, reports of users who deceive
internet forum participants by portraying themselves as gravely ill or as victims of violence
first appeared in the 90s. This is of course due to the relative newness of the internet back in
the 90s. The specific internet pattern was named Munchausen by internet in 1998 by psychiatrist
Mark Feldman. So it's really new. Yeah. New Zealand PC World magazine called Munchausen by internet
Cyber Munch. And those who posted online, Cyber Munchers. I'm sorry. I'm looking for something
to hang on to. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I just want to say Cyber Munch. Cyber Munchers and Cyber Munchers.
I really want to go to New Zealand. I've always thought about going to New Zealand. I looked
recently, we have a bunch of listeners in New Zealand and we really love you guys. Okay. Yeah.
Start up. But Cyber Munchers is hilarious. Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers.
Cyber Munchers. Cyber Munchers. I don't know. That sounds like Manchester though. I don't know.
Manchester. That's not even how you say it. But still. Someone from New Zealand.
Please reach out to us. Yeah. Please reach out to us. But if you really,
really could do us a giant favor and send us an audio clip of you saying Cyber Munchers.
That would be amazing. That would be amazing. So going back to Cyber Munchers. A person may
attempt to gain sympathy from a group whose sole reason for existence is to support others such as
a popular media star. Like they have a following because they want, you know, whatever they want
to see them do well, you know. And lastly, in an article published by The Guardian, Steve Jones
speculated that the anonymity of the internet impedes people's abilities to realize when someone's
lying. So it's much easier to manipulate people via the internet. And that's why.
Interesting. But yeah, that's all I have. That's Belle Gibson. As far as I know,
she has not paid her debt yet and she's still scheming. Scheme in Ethiopia apparently. Well,
I don't know if she's in Ethiopia. She's in like an Aboriginal area. No, I think she's still in
Australia and she's saying like, oh, back home like she had lived there. That's so strange. I know.
It's a very odd story. I've heard of this new term recently. It's Cyber Munchers. Sorry.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Diagnosing a Killer. Cyber Munchers.
Cyber Munchers.
No, never mind. It's been a long day. I'm sorry. It's been a very long day.
That was a really interesting case. Thank you. It was. I like the opportunity on mental breakdowns
where we get to just discuss wild other things about diagnosis, but not necessarily pertain to
murder, but other crimes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I kind of like to use the MBDs as a little loophole
to talk about something interesting that maybe doesn't involve a murder. Yeah. Yeah. It was a
really interesting thing. And then, yeah, Munchhousen by internet. Yeah, never heard that before.
Wild, never. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Not only here, but on our live earlier. We had
such a great time and we will see you guys on Thursday with another case and Friday with our
live again. Yes. Anything else? No, just share that link on our Instagram. Yes. I put a link out
there earlier. I think it's been shared a few times. Okay, cool. And yeah, definitely just take
advantage of that $15 off. Why not? Yeah, right? All right. Okay, we'll see you guys later. Love you. Bye.
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