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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, The Mental Breakdown.

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I'm Koelle and I'm Kenna.

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Let's talk about it.

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Anyway, he was going through something that we originally thought was maybe he ingested something toxic like pesticides or something.

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It turned out that we now know it has developed, and not developed, but it actually was something to do with his brainstem that was causing his vision to go and his coordination balance and just neurology in general to very rapidly decline.

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He did pass away today, but we know he is no longer in pain or suffering from paranoia or anything like that.

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Yeah, he was really scared and it just wasn't a quality of life in our opinion.

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It was a family decision and he just would have deteriorated more and more.

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It was definitely really hard to see over the last couple of weeks, just the decline.

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We know he's not hurting anymore, so that's all we can hold on to.

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So this one's for Jose McGregor.

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There you go.

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Okay, let's hear it.

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Enough with the sad stuff. Let's talk about crime.

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Not sad stuff that happens to animals, at least.

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So today for the Mental Breakdown topic, we are going to be discussing Reactive Attachment Disorder.

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Yes, this is actually suggested by Lady.

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Oh, was it?

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Oh, did.

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Content Warning.

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This episode discusses trial and neglect and includes difficult caretaker and dependent relationships.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember that your mental health comes first and it is important to us.

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We love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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So according to the Mayo Clinic, Reactive Attachment Disorder is a rare but serious condition

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in which an infant or young child doesn't establish healthy attachments with parents or caregivers.

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I just want to say you did sad for your last one and now this one's rad.

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Oh!

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Not that it's actually rad.

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Yeah, it's not actually rad, but yeah, I understand.

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Sad and rad.

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That's so true.

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Maybe as she keeps the trend.

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What's next?

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Had.

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Had.

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Bad.

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Oh, fad.

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Fad.

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Oh, I like fad.

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Reactive attachment disorder may develop if the child's basic needs for comfort, affection, and nurturing aren't met and loving, caring, stable attachments with others are not established.

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That's hard.

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It is.

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According to the DSM-5, a child may be experiencing rad, R-A-D, if they meet certain criteria.

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A, consistent pattern of an inhibited, emotional, withdrawn behavior toward an adult caregiver manifested by both of the following.

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The child rarely or minimally seeks comfort when distressed, or when the child rarely or minimally responds to comfort when distressed.

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B, a persistent social and emotional disturbance characterized by at least two of the following.

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Minimal social and emotional responsiveness to others.

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Limited positive affect.

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And episodes of unexplained irritability, sadness, or fearfulness that are evident even during non-threatening interaction with an adult caregiver.

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Okay.

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C, the child has experienced a pattern of extremes of insufficient care as evidenced by at least one of the following.

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Social neglect or deprivation in form of persistent lack of having basic emotional needs for comfort, stimulation, and affection met by a caregiving adult.

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Damn.

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Repeated changes of primary caregivers that limit opportunities to form stable attachments, i.e., like, frequent changes in foster care.

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Yeah.

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C, the care with the criterion C is presumed to be responsible for the disturbed behavior in criterion A, which is the disturbance of criterion A began following the lack of adequate care in criterion C.

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It's always hard when you read from the DSM.

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It's a lot.

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E, the criteria are not met for autism spectrum disorder.

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F, the disturbance is evident before age five.

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G, the child has developmental age of at least nine months.

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The disorder can be specified if the condition is persistent, and the order has been present for more than 12 months.

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Reactive attachment disorder is specified as severe when the child exhibits all symptoms of the disorder with each symptom manifesting at a relatively high level.

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Okay.

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So that's why at the beginning I said meets this criterion, and I didn't say, you know, three of the following seven or whatever.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So it sounds like it's a lot of nurture.

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Like, it's a lot of, well, lack thereof, but, you know, nurture that would essentially cause this disorder to develop.

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Yeah.

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The Cleveland Clinic suggests children may be more likely to develop RAD if they have many different parent figures like multiple foster care situations.

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We're taken away from their primary caretakers after bonding with them emotionally, experienced several traumatic losses early in life,

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had parental figures who didn't try to become emotionally close to them,

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or spent time in an institution like an orphanage where they didn't have a loving parent figure.

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I think the same maybe goes for a lot of children that are in the adoption system.

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You know, I feel like that's a very big theme that we see, of course, of children that are adopted.

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They might have that mentality of, well, my birth parents didn't want me, right?

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I feel like I've heard that a lot.

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So maybe after a certain age being in the foster system and the adoption system, I can definitely see this happening.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Especially if you feel like, if you do get emotionally attached, that you're just going to get ripped away anyways.

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Yeah.

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Signs and symptoms of RAD may include unexplained withdrawal, fear, sadness, or irritability,

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sad and listless appearance, not seeking comfort or showing no response when comfort is given,

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a failure to smile, watching others closely but not engaging in social interaction,

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failure to reach out when picked up,

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no interest in playing peek-a-boo or other interactive games,

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behavioral problems, and failing to seek support or assistance.

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Wow. Actually, that's really interesting.

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And I'm glad that you mentioned earlier all of these things with the absence of an ASD diagnosis.

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Because a lot of those things fall into the ASD category as well.

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Yeah, the autism spectrum disorders.

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Yes.

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Without proper treatment, reactive attachment disorder can continue for several years and may have lifelong consequences.

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These could include problems with relationships, social interactions, mental and physical health,

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behavior, intellectual development, and even substance use.

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Although RAD is considered uncommon, there's no way of telling just how many cases there are since it is rarely actually reported.

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It's probably rarely reported and it's probably very likely to be misdiagnosed or the person gets diagnosed with something else

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and then they just miss that part or whatever, you know?

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And like you said, like an adoption or an orphan situation, you have one caregiver but you have about 20 kids.

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Exactly.

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And some or all may have varying signs or symptoms of RAD,

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but the thing is that it's probably so common in situations like that that you don't...it doesn't get reported essentially.

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Exactly. It doesn't get tested for or looked into.

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Yeah.

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Prevention is the best chance against RAD.

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These preventative methods may be be actively engaged with your child by lots of playing, talking to them, making eye contact and smiling,

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learning to interpret your baby's cues such as different types of cries so that you can meet their needs quickly and effectively,

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provide warm nurturing interaction with your child such as during feedings, bathing, or changing diapers,

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offer both verbal and non-verbal responses to the child's feelings through touch, facial expressions, and tone of voice.

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And honestly, taking classes or volunteering with children, if you lack experience or skill with babies or children,

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will help you how to learn or interact in a nurturing manner.

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I think so too, especially, and this is just something that popped into my head, when it comes to like young moms,

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maybe an accidental pregnancy in your teen years or something, you know?

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I really think that it should be pushed hard or for that person to get experience with younger kids if they hadn't already,

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especially if it's like the youngest out of a family of five or whatever.

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That person probably doesn't have much experience with children unless they did it for work,

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but encouraging people that are in a situation where they maybe weren't trying to have a baby and they got pregnant,

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you know, to get that education before the baby arrives.

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I agree, and even after I had my son, they come in with a pamphlet and they're like,

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if you feel like you need some more experience or learning or coaching with feeding, changing diapers, what those different cries are.

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They had an optional class that you could take, which I didn't take, but he's fine.

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But I guarantee there's probably more than a few courses that are free at local community hospitals.

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You can probably take a course and honestly, it's probably beneficial even if you don't want children,

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because you know what a child may need, you know, if you're sitting or whatever it might be.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, it's for the children, y'all.

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Well, I don't have children, but obviously we know I work with children, so that's where I've gotten all of my experience from.

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I'll probably still take a parenting class, like when I get pregnant.

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Nobody is fully prepared ever.

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Exactly.

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There may be no cure for RAD, however, it is up to the caregiver to provide treatment and symptom relief.

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Treatment for RAD often focuses on the caregiver, and counseling may help address issues that are affecting the caregiver's relationship with

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and behavior toward the child.

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Teaching, parenting skills can also improve the relationship and development attachment.

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Treatment may also include play therapy.

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This technique allows the child and caregiver to express their thoughts, fears, and needs in the safe context of play.

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I love the idea of play therapy.

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I think it's so cool.

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It is cool.

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It's so naturalistic, you know?

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It's like you can learn so much just doing like everyday activities, you know, and kids love to play anyway, right?

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So you might as well like integrate like learning into that as well.

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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, you know, especially if, I mean, every kid mostly likes to play house, I would think.

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Yeah.

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And that would be another way of introducing what parental figures look like or supposed to look like, right?

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Yeah, for sure.

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There is no medication to treat RAD itself.

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However, the doctor may sometimes use medication to help manage severe behavioral symptoms, such as explosive anger or problems sleeping.

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Although the cases are very rare, one very real-life example of someone with reactive attachment disorder is the recently publicized Natalia Gray's case.

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Oh, yes.

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Right?

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That's so true.

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Oh my gosh, you can even think about her.

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Natalia Gray's Barnett was born in the Ukraine and was born with a rare form of dwarfism.

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After being bounced around several times, adopted and even brought back, she was ultimately adopted by Christine and Michael Barnett.

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According to the Barnets, Natalia had a bizarre and sometimes even threatening behavior towards the Barnets and their biological children.

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Either convinced that Natalia lied about her age or with the intention of bailing on their responsibilities, Christine and Michael took Natalia to court and had her re-aged to state that she was older than she was.

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Yeah, that was fucked up.

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It's so fucked up.

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They said that she was like 22.

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Yeah.

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When she was actually like 9.

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She was 9.

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This is an actual child.

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Actual child.

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This would result in the Barnets placing Natalia in an apartment left to care for herself, abandoning her yet once again.

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Fucked up.

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Natalia was just 9 years old.

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In 2010, after Natalia was able to seek professional help on her own, she was diagnosed with RID, which explains her sometimes erratic and outlandish behavior while living with the Barnets.

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And also, it can mimic antisocial personality disorder, but she's so young that it's very rare for a child of that age to be diagnosed with that.

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Right.

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But yeah, that makes so much sense.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And I mean, she came from the Ukraine.

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I think that her mother gave her up when she was little.

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She went, bounced around at foster or adoption centers, orphanages, and then she was adopted by a U.S. couple.

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And when they took her in, I think they only kept her for like 2 or 3 weeks and brought her back.

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Fucked up.

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And it's, I mean, ugh.

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Well, not only did they, they brought her out of her home country, adopted her, they were like, see ya, and then left her in a foreign country.

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Yeah.

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Like they didn't send her back to the Ukraine.

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No.

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They left her here.

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Yeah.

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And then eventually landed in the hands of the Barnets.

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And ugh, it's a doozy of a case.

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It's a wild story.

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Dozy.

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If you haven't seen it, yeah, go look it up because it's really good.

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There's like a whole documentary and docuseries on it.

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Yes.

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The curious case of Natalia Grace is available on most platforms.

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Season 2 came out last year, which is the curious case of Natalia Grace Natalia's side.

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Yeah.

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Oh my god.

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The story is still not over, however, as Natalia's third sets of adoptive parents have also come out saying that once again, Natalia's behavior was unacceptable and she was, again, removed.

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And how old is she now?

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She's like 22, but they became her adopted parents.

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I think that there was-

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Oh, you know what?

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I know exactly who you're talking about.

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The woman caught wind of the story and was like, we're fucking bringing her in with us.

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And she was like best friends with her.

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It was her neighbor.

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It was her neighbor.

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And yeah, it was the man's-

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Yes, yes, I totally know who she's talking about.

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His name is Antoine.

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Her name is not Christy.

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I have no idea.

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Either way, they adopted her.

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They lived from down the street and they have multiple fostered or adopted children.

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And he's like a bishop.

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And so, you know, good Christian family, all this stuff.

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But the thing is that Natalia, since she was little, has had people ripped out from her.

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It's too good to be true, even if she was able to cognitively believe that she was safe.

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Yeah.

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There's this underlying-

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This underlying thing, R.A.D., that tells her that she's not safe, not to trust these people.

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Yeah.

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The behavior that goes along with that.

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I mean, if you've been told your whole life that the sky is green, you're gonna believe it.

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Absolutely.

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And one day, just because you turn 22 and you can make your own decisions doesn't automatically mean that you believe that the sky is blue.

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Exactly.

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No, for sure.

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Yeah.

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So again, that is reactive attachment disorder.

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Again, if you want to check out that case of Natalia Grace, I think it's mostly on Max, maybe on Hulu.

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I think it's thrown around.

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And I am absolutely anticipating there's gonna be a third season.

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Absolutely.

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If you want to know more about that, the behaviors that go along with it, I would check out that.

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Check out that documentary.

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Definitely.

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Thank you, lady, for suggesting that.

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I don't know if you even knew it was a suggestion, but I was gonna quit doing it anyway.

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But there you go.

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It worked out regardless.

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Check us out on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer.

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We do have Twitter or now X at Killer Diagnosis.

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We also have a Patreon that is patreon.com.

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Our patrons are actually getting two additional bonus episodes this month.

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So we just recently released one and we're gonna release another one within the next week.

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Super excited about those.

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So if you want those, those are for our tier two and three Patreon members.

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And you get an additional ad free, content warning free, doozy of a case bonus episode each month.

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Yes.

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Anything else?

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No, just get your merch.

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Be on the lookout.

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We might have some exciting things happening on Instagram soon.

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Yes.

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Maybe carry over into some other platforms.

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Absolutely.

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But we shall announce that in due time so that you guys are prepared.

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Yes, and go ahead and get your tickets to the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival.

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That is happening in Denver in July the 12th through the 14th.

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That is my birthday weekend.

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Come see us and you can get 15% off of those tickets with our code DAK.

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That's so true.

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There's also some exciting announcements around that as well.

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But shall remain to be seen.

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Yes.

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Okay, well we will talk to you guys later.

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Yeah.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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