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Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Kenna. And I'm Koel.

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We're still not 100% but we have the content. We have the content. That's all that matters.

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I don't really have anything. I know usually we start out with baby shoutouts or emails or

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anything like that. You guys have just been awesome supporting us merch wise. We've been

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getting all your goodies. We've been trying to share social media posts that are given permission

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to share. And yeah, keep sending us those pictures of you guys with your merch.

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And anything you have because I kind of just want to get into this.

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No, I don't think I really have anything. Just check out all that upcycled and repurposed merch

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that really helps us out. It helps the environment out and it helps you guys out.

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Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to give everyone our handles for Instagram or anything else if

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it's their first time listening? Absolutely. You can check us out on any social media platform

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at Diagnosing a Killer other than X, formerly known as Twitter. That handle is at Killer Diagnosis.

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We have an email. We have a cash shop, a Patreon, a Venmo. If you just want to give us a one-time

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monetary donation, you can check us out there on our Patreon. Tier two and three members also get a

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bonus episode every month at the end of the month. Yeah, so lots of options out there.

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Definitely. I am really excited to get into this. I actually wrote this one a number of weeks ago,

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so I'm really excited to talk about it because I've been stirring. When you were like dying in

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bed. Yes, so I'm sure you have already heard, but my voice is not 100% and I'm doing this episode

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today, so y'all are just going to bear with me. I know. Give my voice a rest. Yes, exactly.

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Okay, are you ready? I'm excited. I don't think you know this case. I'm gonna... Oh my god, okay.

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If you do, I will be surprised. Really? Yes. Okay. So today, we are going to be talking about one

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Joseph Edward Duncan. Joseph Duncan. Joe Duncan. Joe Duncan. Joe Duncan. Yeah, I know that guy.

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Joey Duncan. Joey Duncan. We go way back. Content warning, this episode contains depictions of

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child abuse, sexual assault of minors, abduction and torture of minors, drug addiction, abuse,

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and neglect. If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find out one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health is very important to us and we love you. Love you. Bye. So yes,

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Joseph Duncan. Here we go. Joseph Edward Duncan III was born on Fort Bragg Military Base in Fort

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Liberty, North Carolina on February 25th, 1963. He would be the fourth of five children born to

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Joseph Edward Duncan Jr. and Lillian May Duncan with three older sisters and one younger brother.

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Okay. And like a Lillian. Lilith. Lilith. Joseph's father was in the U.S. Army causing the family

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to move from city to city frequently within the U.S. but also abroad at some point. The family would

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change locations about once every two years until Joseph Jr., the father, would retire the family to

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Tacoma, Washington when Joseph III was around 12 years old. Okay. So a lot of really early childhood,

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not really available. Not a lot. Yeah, just moving around. Exactly. His mother was actually known as

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being very domineering while the children were growing up. Tatl's old this time. Yeah, right.

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Domineering mother, you don't say. Yeah. Joseph would claim to have been abused as a child during

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this time but his younger brother would later dispute that this happened at all. His brother was

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like, you weren't abused. He was, I think he was saying like, we weren't abused. I see. Like as

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children. Yeah. But you know, never know. Never know. Seemingly from the beginning of his early

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teen years, Joseph started engaging in sex crimes, something that he would continue well onto his

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adulthood. At 12? Just early teens. Early teens. Okay. Joseph's first recorded sex crime would come

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in 1978 when he was just 15 years old. In this attack, Joseph would subdue and rape a nine-year-old

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boy at gunpoint. What? At gunpoint? Yes. That has to be a little quickie. Quickly. Quickly.

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Ah, no! I did not. I'm sorry, everyone. Oh, god. Oh, fuck. Damn. I'm so sorry. We had to stop.

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We could not stop laughing. I'm crying. We're just hurting my voice more. I know. Okay. Anyways.

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So yes, horrible, horrible crime. Not funny. Not funny at all. So the following year, Joseph would

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be arrested after stealing a car and sent to the Jesse Dyslin Boys Ranch in Tacoma as a result.

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According to a report by the Associated Press, while in the care of the ranch, Joseph told a

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therapist assigned to his case that he had bound and sexually assaulted at least six young boys.

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During this time? Just in his lifetime. Oh, I see. He opened up to a therapist. I see. He also

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stated that he estimated that he had raped 13 younger boys by the time he was 16 years old.

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What? Yeah, just horrible immediate sex crimes. That's just... Yeah. I wouldn't say indiscriminate,

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but that's a lot. I don't even know what to say. No, it's just like... And here's the thing. I don't

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believe that people just sexually assault people out of nowhere. That makes me think he might have

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been sexually abused as a kid. That's true. And then we're just very disturbed. Especially after

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the first time, he probably found some... Well, clearly found power, gratification out of it,

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and he knew he could easily control people and get away with it. Yeah. Around this same time,

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Joseph's parents would separate, but would ultimately file for divorce years later in 1983.

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Following the divorce, Joseph's older sisters would all leave the home around the same time,

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leaving Joseph alone with his mother while his younger brother went to live with the father.

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So it's just Joseph and his mom now. Yeah, the domineering mother. Yes.

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Joseph would attend Lake's High School, but would ultimately drop out, not graduating.

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In 1980, Joseph would steal a number of guns from a neighbor and subsequently abduct a 14-year-old

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boy at gunpoint. He's around 17, 18 at this point. He's just a kid. Yeah, absolutely.

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That's just... And of course, he probably is one of those people that, because of his age, people

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don't consider him a threat. For sure. And also, he abducted a 14-year-old. He's only three or four

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years older than this kid. So it's not uncommon for kids around that age to be hanging out or

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with that age gap. So it might have just looked innocent if anyone saw one of the gun, obviously,

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but then hanging out together. Oh, they're just playing around with those guns, those kids.

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Joseph would sexually assault the boy and be arrested shortly after this.

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Joseph would be sentenced to 20 years in prison for this crime, but would ultimately be released

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on parole after serving just 14 years in 1994. But he was 17 and he still served 14 years.

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Yeah. Wow. And that's crazy because it seems like they didn't know about his record. Well,

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maybe it was on record with his therapist, but that's all. It could just be hearsay.

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It could be fan's proof. Exactly. While out on parole, Joseph was known to have lived several

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different places in the Seattle area. He would be arrested yet again in 1996, this time for marijuana

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use, and was released on parole several weeks later with new restrictions for his parole,

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because he broke parole. Yeah. On July 6, 1996, 11-year-old Sammy Jo White and her

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nine-year-old sister Carmen Cubius would disappear after leaving the Crest Motel on Aurora Avenue

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North in Seattle shortly before 11 p.m. So it's Sammy Jo and Carmen. The two had left to get

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cigarettes from a restaurant for their older brother. I guess they had the hookup because of

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the age restriction to going like 18 to get cigarettes actually went into place in 1989.

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So I guess they just knew maybe the store owner or something. Yeah. When the girls went missing,

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police were unsure whether they were victims of foul play or they had simply run away.

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No evidence in this case came up and the girl's case went undeveloped for two years.

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On April 4, 1997, 10-year-old Anthony Martinez was playing with his brother and some friends

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in a neighbor's yard in Beaumont when he was abducted. Anthony's brother was initially the

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target of the abduction, but the brother was able to free himself from the perpetrator with the help

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of Anthony, who was taken instead at knife point. Oh no. Cut. Talk about survivor skill. Straight on.

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Anthony would be forced into a car and driven away, never to be seen alive again.

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Two weeks later, a park ranger would find Anthony's body among rocks and Burdew Canyon on the outskirts

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of Joshua Tree National Park. The boy had been bound with duct tape and clearly sexually assaulted.

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Although a composite sketch of the subject was made available and a partial fingerprint had

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been taken from the duct tape, nothing came of it. Unfortunately, this case would also go cold

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following the discovery of Anthony's body. Even with the partial, they didn't have like,

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no, they didn't have any records. Results, I don't think, yeah. Joseph would be arrested once again

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in Missouri and returned to prison in 1997 after violating the terms of his new parole. Like, this

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is now the third time he's been in jail, twice for parole violation. Do you think he's gonna like,

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be cool if you just let him out again? No, he seriously, he can't, there's no part of his

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brain that tells him to like, regulate himself. Yeah. And after serving 14 years, you'd think he

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would have been reformed if he was gonna be, you know. Right. On February 10th, 1998, the remains

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of Sammy Jo and Carmen would be found by a transient person living in an abandoned barn

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in the North Creek area of Bothel. That's awful. The King County Medical Examiner's office stated

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that the girls were most likely killed very soon after they disappeared. Joseph would be released

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from his next stint in prison on July 14th of the year 2000 for good behavior, and he would

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subsequently move to Fargo, North Dakota. Yeah, he's just such a great guy. On July 3rd, 2004,

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so four years later, two young boys would be molested at a playground in Detroit Lakes,

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Minnesota, and Joseph would be arrested and charged with these crimes in March of 2005.

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Seriously, castrate this guy? No, actually. On April 5th, 2005, Joseph would appear before a

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Becker County judge who set bail at $15,000. A Fargo businessman whom Joseph had developed a

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relationship with would help him post bail. Following being released, Joseph would stop at

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Walmart to buy Night Vision goggles and a video camcorder. Ew. I know. Then he would rent a 2005

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Jeep Grand Cherokee on April 15th. On April 27th, Joseph stole a set of license plates from another

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vehicle, and a week later on May 4th, the Jeep was reported as a stolen vehicle.

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Joseph would skip out on his bail hearing and disappear. Of course. Stealing that guy's money,

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by the way. Why doesn't this guy have a fucking ankle monitor all the time? No, he really should.

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And a shot collar. Shot collar because away from the zone. On June 1st, 2005, a federal warrant

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was issued for Joseph's arrest on the charge of, quote, unlawful flight to avoid prosecution,

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end quote. So he left. Joseph was known to have talked about the fact that he was in and out

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of prison but would keep committing crimes, stating, quote, I got out and I got even,

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but I did not get caught. So I got even again, and again, I did not get caught. I got even twice,

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actually more, end quote. So I was literally admitting it. Like, I kept getting out and I

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kept committing crimes and getting away with it. I just keep doing it because I can. Because there's,

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yeah, because I can and there's no sense of permanency here. Yeah. There's no real punishment.

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On May 16th, 2005, authorities would discover the bodies of 40-year-old Brenda Groney,

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37-year-old Mark McKenzie, and 13-year-old Slade Groney in their home along Lake Cordelaine in Idaho.

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Her name was Slade. Who's the guy? Yes. His name was Slade. Yeah, it's a cool name, right?

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That's a cool name, but look what happened to him. He's Slane. Okay. Sorry, I had to pause because

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I was shooketh. It's just an unfortunate name for this scenario. I know. So this is,

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just to make it a little bit more clear, this is mom and her son and then mom's boyfriend.

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Okay. That's all they found. Upon finding these bodies in the home, authorities also shortly

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realized that the two younger children of the family, nine-year-old Dylan and eight-year-old Shasta,

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were missing. Amber alerts were immediately issued for the two kids and searchers would begin combing

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the area for the missing children. So he killed these kids, their family, the rest of the family?

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Yes. And kidnapped them, but didn't take the 13-year-old, I guess, because he was too old for

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him? Maybe. That's gross. Due to the kids being missing in the look of the scene, law enforcement

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would begin investigating the deaths as homicides. Autopsies determined that the cause of death for

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all three victims was blunt trauma to the head and all three people had been found bound. Seven

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weeks after the abductions of Shasta and Dylan, a break in the case, Shasta had been found. Shasta

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has done multiple interviews about the abduction of her and her brother and the murder of her other

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family members. The following is from what she has stated about what happened during this time.

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The day of the kidnapping, Shasta stated that her mother Brenda came into her and Dylan's room and

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woke them up. Brenda stated to the children, quote, someone's in the house, end quote, and the three

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of them went into the living room together to meet Shasta's older brother Slade and her mother's

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fiance Mark. I said boyfriend earlier, but they were engaged. Shasta saw a man who we now know to

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be Joseph Duncan wearing black gloves and holding a gun. Joseph would tie Brenda up with zip ties

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and did the same thing to Mark and Slade. Joseph would then take Dylan outside and put him under

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a tree before returning to grab Shasta, putting her beside her brother. Once the two were outside,

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Shasta stated that she heard multiple thumping noises coming from inside the house, and then

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not long afterwards Slade would come stumbling out of the house. As soon as she saw her older

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brother Shasta and Dylan were both taken by Joseph and put into the back of the Jeep Cherokee he had

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previously stolen. So Slade was still alive essentially when they left? Unfortunately the

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three people left in the home would not survive, but Slade was noted as having the strength to get

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himself back into the home and was found right beside his mom. Oh, both of the young children

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were taken to a secluded location with Joseph where he would repeatedly rape and torture the two

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for six weeks. Although the children were still missing, on May 18th a person of interest surfaced

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in the case. A 33 year old man by the name of Robert Roy Concrete Bob Lunter or Lunder, his

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nickname was Concrete Bob. Concrete Bob, what a name. He was a worker in the concrete and construction

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industry. Duh. He was a typist. Yeah. He was known to have a lengthy criminal record and visited the

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family on the day of the murders. It was also noted that Robert owed Brenda and Mark nearly

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$2,000, giving him a motive to get rid of them. Interesting. Upon hearing that he was a person

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of interest, Robert would go to the police and deny having anything to do with the murders and

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abductions. He agreed to a polygraph and would pass. As the search continued, the FBI and other

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local agencies would join in and a reward of $10,000 would be offered for any information

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leading to the safe recoveries of Shasta and Dylan. The case would quickly become the largest

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criminal investigation in the history of Kudinai County. Meanwhile, Joseph drove the children to

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a campsite where he told them that their mother, future stepfather, and older brother were dead

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and they were never going to see them again. That's fucked up because not only have you just

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like ripped these children's lives apart, but like you're rubbing it in their face.

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So like get a reaction. Yeah, or maybe to give them a sense of hopelessness so that they just

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obey. Yeah, that's true. There's nothing to go back for. Go back to his roots. I mean,

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you know, the younger kids, you know, that he can control. Yeah. Joseph would unfortunately

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waste no time in abusing the children, seemingly taking out his anger. Shasta would later state

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about this quote, he got really mad, started throwing things. He took more of his anger out on

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Dylan and was really mean to him. He would abuse him and then make me watch. And then if I cried,

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he would abuse him worse and quote, that's so fucked up. Oh my God. I know. Joseph was not

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only physically assaulting the children, but he would begin playing horrible mind games with them

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as well. He would tell them that they would be able to go home if they just complied with his orders.

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At one point, Joseph would even have the children write letters to their biological father,

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suggesting that they might return home. What for what? Shasta's note was written, quote,

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Dear dad, I miss you very much and me and Dylan know what happened to mom, Mark and Slade, and we

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both feel very sorry for them. And we both miss you and Jesse in vans and we might see you guys

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again. End quote. Of course. Sorry, did he not send those? Yeah, I was just gonna say he would never

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send these letters, but tell the kids he did giving them hope instead of releasing them or

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giving them hope of being released. Yeah. Shasta would state, quote, he just wanted us to believe

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that there was a chance that we would that we would live or that we'd get out safe. I think

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after a certain amount of time, Dylan has started to lose hope that it was going to turn out good

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for him. End quote. Dylan was very clearly becoming aware of the dark reality of the situation.

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Although Dylan was her older brother, Shasta knew that she needed to take on the older sibling role

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and help Dylan through. She would later state about this quote, I said, I promise that we're

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gonna make it out alive. That was my way of comforting my brother, just letting him know that

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we would never stop fighting. End quote. Unfortunately, the torture was far from over for the children.

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Joseph would begin forcing drugs and alcohol on them. And when he believed that they were

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under the influence, he would tell them horrifying stories about what he had done to other children

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in the past. What the fuck? Shasta stated about this quote, he very vividly and in detail described

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the murders of two sisters from Seattle, Sammy, Joe and Carmen. Oh my God. He would tell us the

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way he had done it, where he had placed their bodies. When he started telling us about the

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murders, I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna pretend like I'm drinking this end quote. So she even

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had the wherewithal to like pretend that she was drinking the alcohol, but to make sure she was

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cognitive. Yeah. Hearing about what this man was capable of, Shasta begins coming up with a plan to

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save her and her brother's life. She would begin talking to him in a friendly voice, asking him

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questions about himself and generally just trying to gain his trust. She's like, so what do you do

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for fun? Exactly. It's like so impressive that at eight years old, she has the wherewithal to be like,

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okay, I need to gain his trust. Yeah, she need to be casual. She read him. Yeah, definitely. Shasta

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stated about this quote, I would ask questions about his life, ask it about his family, and could

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I meet them one day. It was a conscious thing, like I need to make him think that I love him or

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that I want to be here with him and quote. At first, it seems to be working and according to Shasta,

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Joseph was even beginning to act nicer to the both of them. However, a month after the abductions,

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Joseph would begin to be malicious towards the children once again. Joseph had taken notice

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of a squirrel that kept her turning to their campsite, and he told the children that if they

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could capture the squirrel, he would let them go home. After many tries, Dylan was finally able to

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catch the squirrel. So this whole time they've been staying on those campgrounds? Yes. And how

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long has it been? It's been a month. Oh my gosh. And they've been essentially tent camping for a

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month. Like in the middle of nowhere? Like, yes, it's a very remote area. Okay. Like it's not like

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a campsite. I was gonna say, yeah, like a park or something. Yeah, I'm saying campsite, but yeah,

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it's definitely like on the outskirts, not a lot of foot traffic or anything. Having new hope that

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they were going to be packing up to go home soon, it quickly became apparent that this was not the

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plan Joseph had in mind. Shasta states about what happened following this quote, I had just given him

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as in Dylan a hug. And so I was holding his hand, and I heard a loud bang. And then I felt my brother's

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hand slip from mine. I couldn't even say anything. Like I couldn't scream. I couldn't, I couldn't,

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I just didn't even know what to do end quote. Joseph would then shoot Dylan once again. Shasta

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states about Joseph following this quote, he came up to me and he was crying and he said it was an

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accident. He didn't mean to. I didn't know what the first shot was, but I knew that the second one

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was on purpose. He said that he did it so that Dylan wouldn't have to feel pain and quote.

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What does that mean? So essentially what Joseph was trying to say was like, I didn't mean to shoot

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him the first time, but then after I shot him, like I needed to put him out of his misery. Yeah,

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but it's like, why were you pointing the gun towards them? Why did you pull the trigger?

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You know, were they like hunting or something? What? Were they like hunting or something? No,

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he's just a murderer. Yeah. I mean, there's no world in which he wasn't going to kill these kids.

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You know what I mean? So like, I don't fucking buy it. He's just a dumbass. I think he was just

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trying to appeal to Shasta's emotions maybe and say like, it was an accident. Oh my gosh, poor me.

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Oh no. I had to put him out of his misery. Yeah. Don't be mad at me. Yeah. Oh. Joseph would then

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force Shasta to help him move Dylan's body onto a tarp where he ultimately burned it in front of her.

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Jesus Christ. Shasta stated about this quote, I was just confused and I remember like, I think

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about for a week, I just didn't talk. I couldn't say anything. I was just frozen and quote.

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At this point, it's been six weeks since the since the abduction and Joseph decides to move

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Shasta to another campsite. Again, like I said, they were in a remote area at first, but this spot

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was near other people who would frequently walk by their camp. What? She would be chained up inside

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the tent though. So she wouldn't be able to go get out, talk to people. She would be desperate to

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call for help from the passerbys, but Joseph would continually threaten her and she said that she

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never said anything out loud because she was just so scared. After multiple nights at this new campsite,

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even though Shasta had been following all of his orders, Joseph decides that he needs to kill her

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now too. Shasta stated about this quote, he was just like, you have the choice to be strangled or

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you have the choice to be shot like your brother and that one's gonna be quicker. I felt like if

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I had chosen the strangulation that I might have a chance to talk him out of what he was doing.

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And quote. What? That's so intense. Keep in mind, yes, this is an eight-year-old little girl

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that is just extremely smart and brave like during this whole thing. Joseph proceeded to

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put a rope around Shasta's neck and began pulling. Shasta admitted that during this time, she felt so

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defeated due to losing her entire family that she almost gave up. She stated about this quote,

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I kind of remember seeing my mom's face. I heard her voice and then like I started to see white

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and then everything kind of came back end quote. At that moment, Shasta decided that she was going

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to live and she needed to come up with an idea quick to save her life. She states quote, I had

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worked up enough breath to say please don't jet end quote. Jet was actually a nickname of Joseph

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that he had told the kids about. Oh wow. Shasta stated about this quote, I noticed that when I would

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use that name with him, it would like soften him a little bit. Like it would soften him and he's like

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what did you say? He just he started crying and he's like I can't do this end quote. Wow. Shasta

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was able to convince Joseph to let her go and allow her to live just a little bit longer to which he

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complied. Shasta knew that if she had to continue to build a relationship with Joseph in order to

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stay alive. She would state about this quote, anytime me going home was brought up I would tell

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him no I don't want to go I want to stay here with you. He'd be like really? You could tell that it

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was starting to catch him off guard a little bit. It's like reverse Stockholm. It really is. It's

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incredible. On July 2nd 2005, seven weeks after the kidnapping, Joseph would bring up a thought to

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Shasta. She would say about this quote, he basically sat me down and asked if I would be his kid and I

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would stay with him. You know that I would call him dad. He's like I want to take you to meet my mom.

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Would you meet her? And I had said yes end quote. Like he's losing his not that it's a bad thing but

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he's losing his like priority in his mind and now he's like I want to introduce you to my family.

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Like this could be a real thing. This could be forever. Yeah. Oh my gosh. As the two left the

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campsite and were heading towards Joseph's mother's home, Shasta knew that she may have an opportunity

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to be seen around her town. She would ask Joseph to take her to specific places with the hopes

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that she would be recognized. She states quote, I said can you take me to where I grew up? Like I

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want to show you where I went to school and I want to show you where my best friend lives.

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Like I want to show you all these places that are important to me because you're important to me.

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And he was like yeah of course I'd love to end quote. Oh my god. She's so like she needs to be a

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psych like a psychiatrist. Yeah. Psychologist. Nearly two months after being kidnapped Shasta has Joseph

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drive her right back to the town that she was abducted from. Smart girl. The two would stop at

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a gas station and be caught on film. Later reports from witnesses were stating that she was calling

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him dad but she was clearly keeping her distance from him and looked uncomfortable and dirty.

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Police would get a tip that Shasta was potentially spotted at the store but it was not until after

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the manager reviewed security footage that the two had already left the store. Shasta states about

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this quote, I remember just holding on to hope but still feeling like there wasn't going to be any

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end quote. As their drive continued Joseph asked Shasta if she's hungry to which she immediately

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says yes knowing that if they stop somewhere else she has a better chance of being recognized.

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The two would go to the Denny's restaurant in Coeur d'Alene. Shasta stating about this quote,

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as I was walking in I noticed that my missing persons poster was right there. Oh shit. There was

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this guy standing outside and he was with his friends and he nodded his head and I nodded my head

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and he went up to the counter and made it kind of seem like he was conversating with one of the

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waitresses and then I seen her look over at me and quote. Wow that's oh my god imagine the heaps.

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The amount of heaps right like you're looking at a missing poster for a child and you're looking at

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down and there's that child. Oh my god with a complete stranger. The waitress Amber Dean was

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noted as stating about this quote, they were my only table at the time and I immediately recognized

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her. His entire world revolved around her. She didn't speak without his permission or something's

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just not okay. And quote, Amber thought she had a pretty good idea of the situation before her

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but she did not want to alert Joseph that anything was amiss. Yeah. Amber stated quote,

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I had spoken to my manager and you know I think we should probably call Coeur d'Alene PD. I'm

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pretty positive that Shasta Groney over there. I'll pay for their meal if I'm wrong. We need

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to get somebody up here and quote. Oh shit. Right? Oh my god yeah and then you're like it's not.

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Yeah right. Oh shit. I'm so sorry. Sorry my child's just dirty. I feel like the parents would still

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understand because they're like oh like better safe than sorry. Exactly. I know my child will be

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protected. Exactly. Some rounds. Amber yeah. Other patrons at the restaurant had also noticed Shasta

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and they were able to secretly form a common effort to make sure that they held Joseph off from

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leaving until police arrived. Like if he had gotten up to leave they were like no seriously. I'm

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thinking of like a guy walking by with like his coffee cup and he's like oh sorry. So what's

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he? Don't can't see where I'm going. My bad. No right. Oh sorry I spilled it on you.

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You spilled it on you. Good change. Yeah. Police finally get the call they had been waiting for

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for nearly two months. I've got a little girl here with a tall gentleman and she looks so much

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like this. Shasta and we're not sure you know I just I don't know. So that was a call that I got on

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an episode of TikTok actually from the Fugitive Crime. Oh okay. But yeah so I just wanted to

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pet through that in there but that was the call that was the waitress. At this point Shasta can

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tell that people in the restaurant recognize her but she was so concerned that Joseph was also going

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to notice. She states quote I remember thinking that he's so smart and then I was like even if

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they know that I'm with him maybe he'll have an excuse and they'll just leave and they won't think

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that anything was wrong end quote. Oh my gosh. So scary like this is your this is your chance.

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Right. And you think it's about to happen but then he's so unpredictable. Exactly. What if he

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takes her hostage. Exactly. Oh my gosh. It seems at this point that everyone is waiting for police

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to get there but Joseph is ready to leave. In an effort to stall Amber pretends to have trouble

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printing their check while other patrons in the restaurant position themselves strategically so

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they can stop him if he tries to leave. They're like scooting their chair back slowly just getting

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closer to the door. Sticking their foot out to trip him. Yeah putting a banana peel on the floor.

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Yeah put some wire strings down by the by the doorway. After what seems like forever the police

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arrive and immediately approach the table they ask Shasta for her name to which she tells them

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and police immediately arrest Joseph. Hell yeah. Shasta stated about this quote the whole entire

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restaurant started clapping like they all knew who I was and they all knew that I was a missing

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person and like it was kind of like they all played a factor into my rescue. I'm gonna cry.

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I know I have the I've had the heaps this whole time. That is amazing can you imagine like oh my

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gosh oh I'm gonna cry. Before they even leave the restaurant Shasta tells police that the man

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with her is the same man who killed her family at home. Oh shit. When Shasta was found without

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Dylan police immediately knew something was wrong. She also wasn't like immediately gonna tell them

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my brother is dead you know she's like my family's been killed it's him. I guess she didn't specify

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that Dylan had also been killed. Right. Police would interrogate Joseph for hours with no information

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coming from him. Police felt that they had no choice but to turn to Shasta for answers. In an

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extremely brave effort Shasta explained to police what happened to her brother. Not only did she

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tell police about what happened to her family members Shasta would even relate to police the

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additional crimes that Joseph had told her about. She stated quote I remembered everything when I was

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found I told the investigators what he had told me end quote about about the girls. Carmen. Two days

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after this on July 4th 2005 investigators discovered human remains at a remote makeshift camp site.

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The remains were sent to the FBI lab for DNA testing and were positively ID'd as being those of Dylan.

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Joseph Duncan's arrest led the FBI to launch a nationwide review of unsolved missing child cases.

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He was implicated as a possible suspect in several crimes that occurred between 1994

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and 1997 when he was on parole and between 2000 and 2005 when he was free from prison.

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Although he was cleared as a suspect in some cases authorities in California and Washington had

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enough evidence to suspect Joseph had committed unsolved murders in their areas as well. Oh my

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gosh Shasta being the badass of a child that she was also told police about the crimes that Joseph

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had confessed to while she was being held against her will. She told authorities about Joseph's

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confession of the murder of Anthony Martinez in 1996 and the murders of 11 year old Sammy Joe and

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nine year old Carmen who are both reported missing in 1996. Following his arrest Joseph Duncan would

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be tried in three separate courts. He would first appear in a Kootenai County courtroom on July 13th

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2005 where he was facing charges of three counts of first degree murder and three counts of first

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degree kidnapping. This was in relation to the deaths of Brenda and Slade Groney and Mark Mackenzie.

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County prosecutors originally wanted to charge Joseph with the kidnappings of Shasta and Dylan

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however they deferred those two cases as federal charges and had him tried separately for those.

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Oh okay. The reason behind this was that transporting children across state lines

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for the purpose of sexual exploitation is federal offense. The trial for the first

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charges was set to begin on January 17th 2006 but would be delayed until April 4th after the

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district judge granted a request to the defense for more time to prepare. No fuck you. Yeah right

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like why do you need more time? Yeah. The trial was delayed once again this time with a new date

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of October 26th after the judge was noted as stating quote no one wants to try this case twice

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including me and hell yeah no nobody wants to beat me or twice no. Joseph's attorneys were noted as

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blaming the multiple postponements on the prosecution's insistence on pursuing the death penalty.

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Yeah probably they probably want him dead. Yeah. On October 16th 2006 shortly after jury selection

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began Kootenai County prosecutors and Joseph's attorney had come up with a plea bargain in which

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Joseph would plead guilty to all state charges against him. Following this Joseph would immediately

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be sentenced to three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole for the three

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kidnapping charges of the murder victims. Too light. Yeah still too light. The three first

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degree murder charges sentenced or stayed pending the outcome of his federal trial on the kidnapping

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of Shostan Dylan and the murder of Dylan. In the scenario that Joseph did not receive the death

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penalty on the federal charges he would be required to return to Kootenai County for a death

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penalty phase on the state murder charges. Oh shit. So basically the judge wanted to make damn sure

375
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:10,880
that he would get the death penalty. Yeah. On January 18th 2007 Joseph was indicted by a federal

376
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,880
grand jury in Coeur d'Alene on 10 counts of quote kidnapping, kidnapping, resulting in death,

377
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,280
aggravated sexual abuse of a minor, and sexual exploitation of a child resulting in death.

378
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,920
So awful. I mean he's already proven that he can't exist in society. No clearly he can't be around

379
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,520
children. No not at all. He's gonna get some shit when he goes to jail. Other crimes relating to

380
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,920
illegal firearm possession and vehicle theft were also placed against him. Joseph would be

381
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,880
arraigned the following day at a federal court in Boise where a judge ordered him to stand trial

382
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,920
the following March. Joseph's defense attorneys immediately requested a postponement which was

383
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,560
granted the week the trial was originally scheduled to begin and a new trial date was set for January

384
00:34:52,560 --> 00:35:00,160
22nd of 2008. On this same day so January 19th 2007 Riverside County officials announced that

385
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,360
Joseph Duncan was being charged with the murder of Anthony Martinez. Despite attempts by Riverside

386
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,320
County officials to extradite Joseph to California including an appeal by Arnold Schwarzenegger,

387
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:20,720
Joseph's federal trial would proceed excuse me. Gubernatorial. I want to be your gubernatorial

388
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:26,640
candidate. You do it so much better than me. Get's us a chopper. Oh my god it's terrible. Have you

389
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:34,160
seen that new state farm commercial that he's doing? Oh my gosh. Like a good neighbor. State farm is here.

390
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,920
Is this neighbor? Yeah they're like it's neighbor. He's like neighbor neighbor neighbor. And then they

391
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,840
get Dana DeVito in there. In the commercial. Dana DeVito isn't it? I didn't even see him. Yeah he's

392
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,760
like like a good neighbor. I did not even see him. No? There might be an extended one. There probably is.

393
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,360
Yeah. Oh that's supposed to be like twins like the movie twins that they were in. Oh yes I remember

394
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:05,920
that. I'm sorry. On December 3rd 2007 Joseph Duncan pleaded guilty to all 10 charges against him.

395
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,200
As a condition of the plea deal Shasta Groney would not have to testify in the penalty phase of the

396
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,920
trial and due to a gag order other details of the plea agreement were not released to the public.

397
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:22,480
Jury selection for the penalty phase for Joseph's trial began on April 14th 2008

398
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,760
and during this selection Joseph would dismiss his attorneys and opt to represent himself. Oh god

399
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,920
okay Bundy. They're always so smart. I mean you might as well do it. You know fuck going to law school

400
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,160
and taking the bar and all that other stuff. I'm smarter than you. I'm smarter. Gosh have you seen

401
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:44,080
that Daniel Brooks guy? Daniel Brooks he's the guy that drove his car through the parade of people

402
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:51,440
and like after having an argument with his girlfriend. No. When was this? This was oh gosh 2010. I mean

403
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:57,840
sorry 2019 maybe. Oh yeah it was in France right? No. Oh I'm thinking of a different yeah that was

404
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:04,480
2015. That was the day after that was the day before my son was born. True. Yeah but no this guy Daniel

405
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:10,640
Brooks and so he's like I'm gonna represent myself. Well his entire case of representing himself

406
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:16,720
was that he could not be identified quote unquote. He's like who's gonna and who is this entity

407
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:23,040
that you're speaking about Daniel Brooks? Who is this entity and the judge had so much patience

408
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,720
but she was annoyed every day. Of course. I would be too. That's not how it works Mr Brooks. Yeah

409
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:38,960
that was me that was Patricia. It's me Patricia. So Joseph's attorneys would of course object him

410
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,920
representing himself insisting that he was not competent enough to stand to do that. Yeah. They

411
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,960
would request to have a formal hearing regarding this issue. The district court ordered an evaluation

412
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,680
of Joseph to determine his competence and the conclusion of this was that he was competent

413
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:59,280
enough to proceed without counsel. Go ahead. Yeah go for it. Make an ass to yourself. On August 27th

414
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,240
2008 after just three hours of deliberation the jury would recommend the death penalty for Joseph

415
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:09,600
Duncan and the judge would impose three death sentences for kidnapping resulting in death,

416
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,320
sexual exploitation of a child resulting in death, and the use of a firearm and a violent crime

417
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:21,760
resulting in death. That's a quote. All related to the death of Dylan Groney. On November 3rd 2008

418
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,000
Joseph would be sentenced to an additional three consecutive terms of life without the possibility

419
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,120
of parole for the kidnapping of Shasta Groney and the sexual abuse of both children. He has like

420
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,920
seven life sentences now. Yeah good. In the death penalty. Good. The attorneys that were supposed

421
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,720
to defend Joseph in this trial would immediately file a notice of appeal on his behalf but Joseph

422
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,920
would also write the court stating that any appeal received was quote against his wishes and quote.

423
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,840
So he's like gonna pout. He's like no, just put it. I don't want anybody representing. Just get it.

424
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,440
Don't appeal for me. Don't appeal on my behalf.

425
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:03,440
On March 15th 2011 Joseph Duncan would plead guilty to the murder of Anthony Martinez

426
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,640
and would subsequently be sentenced to two life terms on April 5th 2011. So we're up to like nine.

427
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,040
I think it's eight actually. Okay. As part of a plea deal the sentence came out without the possibility

428
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,720
of parole or the right to appeal. Although Joseph could have faced a separate death penalty sentence

429
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:23,600
for this murder, Riverside County DA Paul Zellerbach justified the life sentence by stating that he

430
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:29,040
had consulted with the Martinez family. The family wanted closure in the case and stated quote,

431
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,560
the federal system will kill him long before the state of California would have seriously

432
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:39,040
considered it. I mean yeah like we all know what happens to child abusers in prison. Yeah it's like

433
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:45,120
just yeah have him go deal with that stuff. Exactly. See how he likes it. On December 6th 2013

434
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,640
a federal judge ruled that he was mentally competent when he gave up his right to appeal

435
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:54,320
his death sentence. Well not that the judge was competent but Joseph was. Yeah he was like. The

436
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,760
judge ruled that himself was mentally competent. Psychiatrists working with the prosecution

437
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,320
would ultimately diagnose Joseph Duncan with pedophilia, sadistic personality disorder,

438
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:09,200
and antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic traits, but would maintain that he was legally

439
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:14,320
sane. So I want to do a whole mental breakdown on this topic but essentially sadistic personality

440
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,680
disorder is characterized as a pervasive pattern of sadistic and cruel behavior. People with this

441
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,640
disorder are thought to have desire to control others which makes a lot of sense. Yeah which

442
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:30,560
is different than masochistic right? Yes. Okay. A three judge panel of the Ninth Circuit US Court

443
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:36,160
of Appeals ruled on March 27th 2015 that a district judge correctly determined that Joseph was mentally

444
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:42,560
competent when he waived his right to appeal his death sentence. On February 28th 2016 the US Supreme

445
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,920
Court denied Joseph's petition to hear his appeal for a federal judge's ruling in December 2013.

446
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,680
It's just all this shit like no wonder the judge didn't want to do this shit more you know. Yeah

447
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,920
because I keep having to hear about your ass. Yeah lock them up and throw away the key. Exactly.

448
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Prior to his arrest Joseph maintained a personal website titled The Fifth Nail.

449
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,800
According to Lore in addition to the four nails used to pierce the body of Jesus and

450
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:12,400
his crucifixion there was a fifth nail taken away and hidden by the Romans. Joseph adopted

451
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,960
the name of this own website and blog and he would post about his day-to-day life as a convicted

452
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,160
sex offender. However he would deny being of pedophile and claim to have been sexually abused

453
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,480
himself as a child. His sister Sherry Cox would testify on Joseph's behalf stating that Joseph

454
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:34,160
and herself alike were subjected to horrible abuse as children. So we said it earlier. Yeah. She

455
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,880
stated about their mother quote, when she was beating on you if you fought back it was worse.

456
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,960
In his case he just took what she gave and kind of whimpered off into his bedroom and quote.

457
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,960
I thought his brother said there was no abuse. He did. So I'm just that's what I'm saying there's

458
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,000
there's conflicting accounts. Yeah. After he got to prison Joseph would maintain a blog

459
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:58,000
spot website titled quote, Joseph E. Duncan III returns to the web from federal death

460
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,840
for to expose the meaning of the fifth nail. In quote. Oh my god. Shut the fuck up loser.

461
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:11,360
You're such a loser. Nerd. You're such a loser nerd. All of this content was posted by someone

462
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:19,520
using the pseudonym Silenced. Oh no. And it's believed that this person was receiving letters

463
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:25,600
from Joseph and posting on his behalf out in the world. Silenced. Silenced. John Adams,

464
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,840
Joseph's public defender and prosecutor Bill Douglas declined to comment on the possibility

465
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,960
that Joseph was blogging from prison. It's like he shouldn't be able to do that. Yeah.

466
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,280
He's a terrible person. I could do that. Access to the internet is like not this guy's thing.

467
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,560
Right. Yeah. Because if you have access to the internet, guess what you also have access to

468
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,840
children, right? However, in John Adams again, his public defender was noted as stating about

469
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,560
Joseph before representing him quote, he was a broken man. He was frightened and desperate

470
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,800
and confused. It was often hard to follow what he was talking about because he was talking about

471
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,480
things that weren't relevant. That tells me that he's mentally ill. Yeah. Yeah. He's got some

472
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,360
disconnect going on. According to the blog, Joseph rarely interacted with other death row

473
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,520
prisoners and actively chose not to speak with them or engage in conversation. Yeah,

474
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,760
I'll say because he knows what's going to happen. Exactly. In fact, Joseph claimed that he didn't

475
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,160
really socialize with anyone at all and he would only speak to other prisoners when he was required

476
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:26,960
to. I'm just too good for them. I'm not wired to speak to you. I'm afraid of what you're going

477
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,520
to do to me because I'm a fucking pedophile. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. I just really crave

478
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:39,280
my solitude. That's just one of the many things about me that are interesting. You know, I also

479
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:45,680
enjoy being alive and I feel like you're going to kill me. Despite this, Joseph also claimed to

480
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,920
never having problems with any other inmates and stated that he had only received harassment on a

481
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:56,160
few occasions from a handful of COs. I don't buy it. In July of 2019, the US federal government

482
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:02,160
announced that they would be resuming executions after a nearly two decade hiatus. Joseph claimed

483
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,840
that he was, quote, relieved to hear this as in his opinion, being executed via lethal injection

484
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:13,200
would be a much, quote, better and cleaner way to die than of natural causes in prison. Yeah. He's

485
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,280
concerned about being clean. Yeah. Yeah. You're like the dirtiest fucking person in the world.

486
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,080
You're disgusting. He stated that dying of natural causes in prison was the one thing he feared the

487
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,320
most and that he was worried that the government would never get around to executing him. I'm

488
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,640
just never going to get around to it. They're not even concerned with me. Yeah. They just don't

489
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:36,080
even want to kill me. They don't even care to kill me. Yeah. I'm just too important. Out of the five

490
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,960
federal prisoners selected for execution, Joseph stated that he was acquainted with four of them

491
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,080
but would not call any of them his friends. He did also claim that everyone on federal death row

492
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:51,520
would be, quote, better off if they were executed. I'm just a lone wolf. Yeah. You'd be better off

493
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:56,880
without me. There's two wolves inside of me. Again, that wasn't me. That was Patricia. That was

494
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:02,400
Patricia. In October of 2020, Joseph underwent brain surgery after he was diagnosed with

495
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,840
geoblastoma, a very dangerous brain cancer. Why not let the brain cancer kill him? Let it kill him.

496
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,800
Because the state has to, that's why. He would decline any treatment and rejected

497
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,360
chemotherapy and radiation therapy. I'm just, I just need to suffer.

498
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,400
Medical staff at the Federal Bureau of Prisons estimated that he had between six and 12 months

499
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:30,640
of life to live after being diagnosed. Oh, shit. Joseph Duncan would die on March 28, 2021,

500
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,480
at the age of 58. Anthony Martinez's father, oh, he died of natural causes, by the way. Not

501
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,840
natural, but sick. He didn't get executed. I mean, that's essentially what he feared, anyways.

502
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,800
Anthony Martinez's father, Ernesto, was noted as stating about Joseph's death, quote,

503
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,080
while I would have liked to witness his execution, knowing he is now standing before God, being held

504
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,880
accountable for what he had done, what he did to my son and the horrible crimes he committed to others.

505
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:00,080
That's the real justice, end quote. Anthony's younger brother, Marcus, stated, quote,

506
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,840
God has brought pure justice for all those Joseph Duncan has hurt. There is less evil in this world.

507
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Nothing can bring my brother back, but now Duncan can never hurt anyone ever again. Because of him,

508
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,440
I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to fight against any evil left in the world,

509
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:21,840
end quote. Anthony's mother was noted as stating about Joseph's death, quote,

510
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,480
the sun is brighter today and my soul is lighter. Oh, shit. The world is a more beautiful place

511
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,440
without the evil that is Joseph Duncan. God chose to make his end a long suffering and I

512
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:38,800
believe that is fitting. The horror of his thoughts consumed him, end quote. I can't imagine, but I

513
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:44,720
can't imagine that feeling being like, I don't have to worry about that anymore. On the off chance

514
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:52,480
that he gets fucking released again. I lost a friend in an accident, a car accident. Well,

515
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,960
I wouldn't say an accident because this douche was deliberately driving drunk on the wrong way

516
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:06,000
of the highway. But you know, when he had his sentence finally, I can't imagine the amount of

517
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,680
relief that his family must have felt. And then one day, hopefully that guy, well, he will die in

518
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:17,120
prison. And when that day fucking comes, what a relief then too? Because he can never hurt anybody,

519
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,520
he can never terrorize anyone, he can never manipulate anyone, you know, just a place on this

520
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,360
earth. Imagine if they had released him on like compassionate release because of his illness.

521
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,560
Oh my God, right? Could you imagine? I don't know if they'll do that with a

522
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,160
death row though. He would do a thrill killer some shit. Absolutely. The jurors who opposed

523
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,840
the death penalty for Joseph were offered counseling in order to help them cope with

524
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:43,840
the horrific evidence they had to see in the trial. Among the evidence viewed was a 33 minute video

525
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,720
depicting a nude Joseph torturing physically and verbally assaulting and sexually abusing

526
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:54,560
a nude restrained boy identified as Dylan Groney. Oh shit. On top of the video, human remains a

527
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,720
wire noose and other videos of Joseph's continued torture of Dylan were in evidence.

528
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,480
During one of the videos, a child can be heard screaming in pain while a nude Joseph shouts,

529
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:10,400
quote, the devil is here boy, the devil himself, the devil likes to watch children suffer and cry,

530
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:18,320
end quote. Jesus Christ. Fucking good riddance. That is disgusting. How can you terrorize children?

531
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:25,120
No, literally. It's sickening. In 2016, Shasta Groney, then 19 years old,

532
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,520
was started a petition called Slade and Dylan's Law in honor of the two brothers she lost.

533
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,560
The petition suggested that convicted sex offenders should not be let out of jail,

534
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:39,280
essentially changing the three strike rule to one strike. Hell yeah. Why the fuck is there a

535
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,080
three strike rule? You can hurt three people. And then the last time you're now three children,

536
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,360
and the last time you're gonna stay in jail. And you're gonna stay in jail. Don't do it more than

537
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:53,520
three times. Don't get caught more than three times. Don't get caught. That's horrific. No, it's

538
00:48:53,520 --> 00:49:06,240
absolutely gross. By the time the petition had closed, it had nearly 52,000 supporters.

539
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:12,400
The petition reads, quote, my name is Shasta Groney. I am 19 years old and I am seeking out a way for

540
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:18,160
not only my voice to be heard, but other victims. When I was eight, my mother, stepfather, and 13-year-old

541
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,720
brother Slade were murdered, and my brother Dylan and I were kidnapped from our homes by a level

542
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:28,320
three sex offender named Joseph Edward Duncan III. He was charged many times before my situation and

543
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:34,480
was let out again and again. I would like for this petition to change that. One strike for a violent

544
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,000
sex offender should be enough. Never let them back on the streets to re-offend. I understand that

545
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,880
there are some cases where people have to register as a sex offender, but it wasn't exactly fair.

546
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,280
Those people aren't included. This is for the offenders who take their people's decision to

547
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,720
choose. This isn't a disease. It's a sick twisted person who cannot be helped or fixed.

548
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,720
The system failed me and my family, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to put an end to

549
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:04,080
the psychos running the streets, end quote. Hell yeah. Like, what a fucking boss bitch.

550
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:10,160
Following Joseph's arrest, Shasta was known as having an extremely hard time readjusting to not

551
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:15,120
only a free life, but a life without most of her family. She would state about this quote,

552
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,280
I was happy to be in a safe place, but there was still a part of me that's like, well,

553
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,520
what if this happens again, end quote. Could you imagine that way? No, I cannot.

554
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:30,000
Not only was Shasta suffering from severe PTSD and attending therapy often following her attack,

555
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,280
but she was constantly being recognized as well. She stated quote, I just wanted to be a normal

556
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:40,160
teenage girl. There was still court stuff going on with Joseph Duncan. There was still counseling

557
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,320
that I had to do, and I didn't feel good about myself or the person that I was. So I think that

558
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,360
all that kind of pushed me over the edge, end quote. Shasta would quickly turn to drugs and

559
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,000
alcohol to try to escape her reality, and she would spend her early teenage years in a juvenile

560
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,040
correctional facility. She would meet other girls here that shared a similar experience with the

561
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,880
drug abuse. She would state around this time quote, the judge was very honest with me, and she's like,

562
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,720
Shasta, I feel like you do have a lot of help you can give people, and I feel like you're way better

563
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:15,440
than what you're doing, end quote. I mean, but like, I would probably do the same thing, if I'm

564
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,960
being completely honest. Like I would be so lost. That's, you know, with the Columbine Patreon episode

565
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:26,480
that we did, it was when we went through the survivors and what everybody went through, it's

566
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:33,840
not all success stories. This is very traumatic stuff, and yeah, plenty of people turn to drugs

567
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:39,280
and alcohol after that. It's horrible. Shasta would begin to change her life, meeting the man who

568
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:45,040
would be her future husband. This man just so happens to be related to Sammy Jo and Carmen.

569
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:51,120
Whoa. Shasta would state about this quote, for a long, long time, like I always had this feeling

570
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,960
that I could not have kids, but he's not going to steal the fact that I can bring children into

571
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:01,280
this world, end quote. Shasta would go on to have her children, and in April of 2018, Shasta would

572
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:06,240
plead guilty to two misdemeanor courts of injury to a child and was ordered to serve unsupervised

573
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:11,680
probation through October 2019. Uh-oh. Courts stated that Shasta endangered a one-year-old child in

574
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,160
her custody by leaving methamphetamine out where the child could have ingested it, and that she

575
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:22,400
also left the drug in close proximity to a month-old baby. That's awful. A Canyon County judge

576
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,280
declined to sentence her to jail time and instead instituted 18 months of probation. Okay. As far

577
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:33,440
as I know, she has not reoffended or anything. Wow. Steve Groney, Shasta's father, died in 2019

578
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:40,000
of cancer. After hearing the news of Joseph Duncan's passing in 2021, Shasta stated, quote,

579
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:47,520
I woke up feeling like my soul was finally free, end quote. Shasta is now 26 and she has five

580
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,560
children. Oh my goodness. Ooh, I got choked up. Knowing that the community played a huge part in

581
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,440
her rescue, Shasta continues to engage with people who have shown her support over the years. She

582
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,680
states, quote, I still keep in contact with the guy that I made eye contact with outside of the

583
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,880
restaurant. His name is Nick Chapman. A couple of the other investigators and officers that worked

584
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,280
on my case, they brought me to their house and I met their kids. They completely made my life so

585
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,040
much easier. They allowed me to be a kid when I felt like I couldn't, end quote. Shasta was also

586
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,600
noted about saying about Joseph before he died, quote, I don't hate him for the things that he's

587
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,320
done. I forgive him actually. If I don't forgive him, then he's going to control my life. I want

588
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,080
him to know that I'm doing good things with my life too so that he knows he doesn't have control

589
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,880
over my life and that he doesn't affect me anymore, end quote. Hell yeah. What a bad bitch. I mean,

590
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,760
honestly, could you imagine having to like grow up in that moment? Like she had to become an adult

591
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:45,200
right then in two months. Yeah. In order to survive this. Shasta has expressed interest in

592
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,840
becoming a counselor to help others that go through similar experiences. But as far as I can tell,

593
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:55,120
this has not happened quite yet. Shasta would also state in the same interview as a teen, quote,

594
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,120
I know that I lived for a reason and there's a reason that I'm on this planet still and I know

595
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,440
that I'm here to help other people. If there's anybody in the world right now that's being abused

596
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,600
and they hear that I'm giving up, what would that do for them? End quote. Which is so true.

597
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,760
And lastly, that's the whole story essentially. One last quote from Joseph is all I have left and

598
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,560
not really sure where it's from, but I wanted to pepper it in here because it was pretty freaky.

599
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:25,840
Quote, the world will know who I really was and what I really did. I am scared, alone, and confused

600
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:31,440
and my reaction is to strike out toward the perceived source of my misery, society. My intent

601
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:38,480
is to harm society as much as I can, then die, end quote. Okay, edge lord. No, like you're not

602
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,400
fucking cool. You're so edgy. I just wanted to also pepper these in here as well. That is the

603
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,120
end of our episode, but I wanted to give you guys the number for the National Center for Missing

604
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:55,840
and Exploited Children. That is 1-800-THE-LOST-T-H-E-L-O-S-T. They're available 24-7 as well as the

605
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:04,160
National Human Trafficking Hotline. That is 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And that is 888-373-7888.

606
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:12,480
Or you can text the word INFO to 233733. But yeah, that's all I got. Really interesting case. It's

607
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,760
really interesting that, I mean, again, it was later that we kind of heard that Joseph and his

608
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,720
sister were possibly abused, but like you said, there wasn't a lot of like early life. Yeah,

609
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:27,280
there really wasn't because they moved around so much. It would make sense, though. I think it was

610
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:34,160
sexually abused as a kid. But yeah, I think that it's kind of interesting. I know that we usually

611
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:40,720
talk about the perpetrator and their disorders, but it's kind of interesting talking about the

612
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:51,360
like psychology of Shasta and how she used those things that you do essentially, right,

613
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:57,840
in psychology and being able to recognize that in a person and know how to talk her way through this.

614
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:04,560
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean, if she's capable of that at that age, a lot of kids are capable

615
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:09,360
of that at that age. I don't think that that's too early of an age to talk about, you know,

616
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:14,720
hard things with kids and not necessarily maybe things exactly like this. But psychology is

617
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:19,280
very helpful for any age. I really think it would be maybe if there's like a children's psychology

618
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,440
thing that you can look up, I think that would be really cool, you know. But yeah, she I mean,

619
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:28,320
that's just an incredible survival story of her. She just thought on her feet and I mean,

620
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,520
very, very unfortunate to have to lose your whole family. Right. But it seems like she's

621
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:38,640
doing really well for herself. And we're really thankful that she's still around. Yeah. Joseph

622
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:43,840
got what he deserved. Thanks for letting us share your story, Shasta. Yes. Thank you for being open

623
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,880
about it. Yeah, absolutely. For other survivors. For sure. But yeah, that's all I have.

624
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:54,320
Well, that was a great episode. Thanks. You guys continue to check out our merch items. Go ahead

625
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,880
and get your tickets for the True Crime and Paranova podcast festival that is happening in July in

626
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:03,840
Denver from the 12th to the 14th. It's kind of birthday weekend. It's my birthday weekend. We're

627
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,240
going to be there. We're going to have a lot of fun and we cannot wait to meet the new podcasters

628
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:14,240
that are going and see our old friends. Yeah. Continue to check out those upcycled merch items.

629
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:19,760
They help us and the environment. There's going to be $15 for shirts, $25 for hoodie that includes

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00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:25,200
shipping. Absolutely includes shipping. Yes. Free shipping. And if you can't make it right now to

631
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get the merch, we will bring all of the remaining upcycled merch that we have to Denver as well.

632
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:36,080
Yes. Okay. Anything else? I'm hungry. Me too. Okay. Talk to you guys later. Love you. Bye.

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