Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm Koelle.
And I'm Kenna.
How does it sound?
It sounds okay.
Yeah, are you struggling?
I'm not struggling.
I'm okay.
How do I sound?
Great.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
Okay.
We've had some...
Well, I'm sure if you've been here from the beginning, you know that we always have
software problems.
Yeah.
Do I sound like software?
Software.
Damn, I can't hear myself.
You're right.
We have software problems all the time and dated for a class that I'm taking this semester
and somehow it fucked up our recording software.
And every time we talked, it was like static and then we listened back and we sounded like
robots.
Monsters.
It's like roofer, roofer, roofer, roofer, roofer.
And so for the life of us, we couldn't figure it out.
And so now we're using Koelle's laptop to record.
But there's this lag.
And so I can hear myself like an echo almost as I'm talking.
Yeah.
So if I fuck up, it's because of that.
And you're not even wearing a headset because you were like, I can't do this.
I can't.
Yeah.
It was like hearing myself talk to myself while I'm trying to talk.
That's...
And it was...
Yeah.
It was messing up my words.
That's exactly how it sounds.
such a control freak, I cannot not listen to it as it's happening because I'm
gonna be like oh my god I sound weird. Yeah. So anyway, that's what's going on
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I do want to talk about a couple of DMs that we got on Instagram lately. So one
of them is from a listener named Amanda. She says so obsessed. Thanks for the ad.
I do need to sleep though seriously. Love you ladies. I love the psychology aspect
of all the episodes. Can I be your best friend? Hell yeah. Yes, absolutely. And then
we got another one from a Suzanne. She commented on our story posts that asked
how often or what time of day people listen to and she said I'd listen all
day every day if I could. Love you. Aww. We love you both and thanks for reaching
out. We always love to hear from people that listen to us because we still have
embossed your syndrome and we think that people don't listen to us. That's true. Thank you.
If you guys didn't check out our Merchie merch forums yet, check those out. We
just updated those to have Slim Can or for Slim Can Coosie. Yes. So I'm excited.
I'm using one right now. Same. You ready? Yes. Today we are going to talk about
Ezra McCandless. Okay. Do you know who Ezra McCandless is? I feel like I've heard
the name before but I'm definitely gonna need a refresher. Well I'm gonna tell
you. Okay. Content warning. This episode describes details of emotional and
mental abuse, termination of pregnancy, depression, sexual assault, rape
allegations, self-harm, and struggles with identity. If this episode is not for you,
we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes. Remember that you are
mentally healthy and important to us and we love you. Love you. Bye. Dizzy. Yeah,
it's a lot. And what's crazy is that this story is not even that long. Okay.
Let's hear it. Ezra McCandless was born Monica J on October 6, 2007 to her
mother Rosalena Gunelson who was just 14 years old at the time of Monica's
birth. Oh wow. Monica would never come to know who her biological father was. She
was born in Stanley, Wisconsin which is only a population of about 3,600. Mm-hmm.
And it's about an hour and a half away from any major city. The nearest city is
actually Minneapolis, Minnesota and that's how small it is. It's like, what did I
say? It was like an hour and a half. Yeah. Dang, we're gonna be there in a couple
years by the way. Minnesota? Yeah, yeah. Minnesota. Minneapolis. Isn't that, is
there the Dahmer Museum there? No. Yes. Or is that Milwaukee? No, it's Milwaukee. We
always get them confused. Every time. Because we were like Milwaukee and Memphis.
Milwaukee and Memphis. Makes no sense. I love that song. So Monica and her mother
would be alone together until Monica was about four when a man that her mother
was dating named Jo Shane Carlin married Rosalina and adopted Monica.
Jo Shane. Jo Shane. It's like two names. It's not even hyphenated. It's J-O-S-H-A-N-E.
It's not even got, not even hyphenated, not even apostrophe, nothing. Jo Shane.
Interesting, right? They called them. They called them Jo. Yeah, I'm sure. Hey, Jo Shane.
Monica J was then Monica Carlin after he adopted Monica. Monica grew up calling
Jo Shane her father and it was the only father that she had would ever know her
whole life. Jo Shane tried to be a supportive father, however Monica
recalls him being very nitpicky and unpredictable in his behavior. She
described her parents as almost like having two tornadoes in one household.
Oh my gosh, that's awful. Well, I mean Monica's mom is so young too, you know.
Yeah. Mother worked a lot of hours and would often be left to be disciplined by
Jo Shane, although her mother was very adamant that Jo Shane not discipline
Monica like at all. Oftentimes it led to quite a few arguments between the two.
Monica recalled her father calling her stupid and slow at one point in her life.
She was mostly emotionally abused, although the threat of Jo Shane throwing
something was enough to make Monica shut down when the family would argue. Oh my
god. And it's just the three of them. Yeah, that's awful. Monica fell at a young age
that she was able to dissociate from reality, given her exposure to
this hostile environment growing up. By the age of 12, her parents would divorce
and the three would separate. Monica rarely seen Jo Shane throughout her
childhood, although they would keep in touch every once in a while. So I know I
said just 12, but back when Monica was five and all throughout her young life,
she loved art. She was very interested in art. Monica considered herself to be
otherworldly even though she had never traveled and she was also very young. She
acted older than she was and considered herself to be like a booksmart reader and
very cultured. She claimed that her favorite book was written by Christopher
McCandless into the wild. When in fact, Christopher McCandless did not write this
book, he was simply the subject of it and it was written by John Krocauer.
Our apologies. As we said, we're using new recording software and we just
realized that it was cutting our voices so bluntly at the beginning of each new
like time we started recording. So that's why you're hearing all these weird
sound cuts. We figured it out hopefully and we're gonna try not to let it happen
again for the rest of the episode. Back to the episode. A full-length feature
film was released in 2007 which was directed by Sean Penn and it starred
Emile Hirsch whose portrayal of McCandless brought countless award
nominations. Monica was inspired by Chris McCandless's nomadic lifestyle and
his minimalist idealizations. Through high school, Monica began to explore
her gender identity. Her time throughout high school, she would describe herself as
more masculine representing and therefore began to use he, him, pronouns. On
vacation, she found the name Ezra which was more neutral somewhere along the trip
and the trip was one to remember and she kind of wanted to hang on to that name
as a representation of that trip. Some time after this vacation, Monica came
to her parents to ask for a name change which they agreed in order to provide
Ezra with more gender affirming care. This included changing her last name and
she was now Ezra McCandless. And I would like to say that throughout her entire,
the duration of her entire trial, she is referred to as she. She did not have her
gender changed or anything like that so for the sake of this podcast, I just
want to make sure that I'm not dead naming her completely because later on
she also refers to herself as Monica and she her pronouns as well. Ezra
continued to practice her art all throughout high school and this is
essentially all she focused on. So when she graduated in college, she worked for
a professor of the arts and was able to hang some of her own art in a gallery as
well. But soon Ezra longed to leave her home in pursuit of a living more
independent lifestyle perhaps in parallel to Chris McCandless's life. Ezra
made the decision to drop out of college and travel to Eau Claire, Wisconsin which
has a population of nearly 70,000 which was way more than Ezra was used to. Yeah,
giant change. Yeah. Although Eau Claire is still considered small by most city
goers, Ezra found that the college age community was enough to support her in
her need of being accepted and fulfilled socially and she would regularly
make trips to Eau Claire just to get away. She was this cool kind of gender-fluid
individual who dressed differently and was seemingly of high mind. Most people
thought Ezra was older than just 19 years old as she seemed to be an
intellectual and a well-rounded person. Okay. After attending a music festival in
early July, this would be 2017, Ezra was perched on a bench outside of a local
coffee shop down Water Street in Eau Claire called Racy Delaines, affectionately
called Racies by their diverse group of regulars. We have a Water Street but it's
a restaurant in Corpus. Oh yeah. It's really good. The oysters are so good. This is
just Water Street. The shop was closed at the time that Ezra arrived however she
decided to sit outside in order to use the Wi-Fi and she didn't have a cell phone
at this point. She used an old iPod. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know right? She's so different.
So she used this iPod to communicate with friends or family. That was me though.
I remember if my phone was broken or something when I was in high school I
would have to use an iPod because you can text on them as long as you have Wi-Fi.
Right. I think she was even able to maintain an Instagram and she did
have a phone but for whatever reason she didn't have an account or
something or maybe it was a pay-as-you-go or something. Yeah, I didn't pay for it.
A man by the name of Jason Mangle passed by letting out a big sigh. 34-year-old
Jason Mangle was serving in the Army National Guard for the last seven years.
He worked a little out of town and would regularly ride his bike to work. On his
way back into town that night he passed by Races and hopes that he can make it
in time for a cup of coffee before closed. However on his way into town he
unfortunately got a flat tire. Jason would just barely make it in time for
Alex Woodworth, the night shift employee at Races to see him pull up and instead
of tossing out the coffee for the night Alex decided to hand Jason a cup of
coffee for his troubles. Oh, that was sweet. Then he locked the door behind him.
Ezra was still sitting on the bench and she acknowledged Jason asking why the
long face and the two began to talk. Time flew as the two got to know each other
and eventually they would exchange information that night. Excuse me.
Tell us the world is done.
Jason believed that at the time Ezra was much older than 19. The two would share a
13-year age gap. Oh, yikes. And given that Ezra was only in town for one night due
to the festival, Jason just felt the situation lended the idea that
Ezra was just older because she just drove in for this festival and she's
hanging out on a bench by herself instead of a coffee shop. Super, unfortunately,
like some of our listeners can't relate but as a young girl growing up and a
young woman growing up, independence is mistaken as maturity like when you're
in your 18s. That's so true. It's like, yeah, I can go to a restaurant and sit
down by myself and now all of a sudden I'm 30 when I was really like 20.
Yeah, so we absolutely thought that Ezra was older and everybody else had
noticed it too because she talked about, you know, Chris McCandless and you know,
she's got this interesting name and she's gender fluid and yeah. So remember
that Ezra is relatively new to the area and the Races crowd was kind of a
tight-knit group. So if anyone had known Ezra, this is another reason why Jason
was like, oh, she must be older because she like drives through here.
Essentially if anyone knew Ezra, they probably would have said, this is Ezra,
she's part of the group now, you know? Yeah. So over the course of a week, however,
the two would talk nonstop and they quickly became boyfriend and girlfriend
in just a week or so. Ezra would integrate herself into the Races crowd
and then Races was kind of connected to this place called the Nucleus which
served food, the joint was down the street and other establishments that were
along Water Street were kind of the hub of this core group of regulars. So it's
like 6th Street without all the nuts. Yeah, I just found myself literally being
like, oh this Jason guy must be bad news. I was like, wait a second, I forgot because
I've been listening to so many different podcasts lately. I just forget that like
Aris gives it away at the time of the talk. Who's the purpose? This Jason guy.
It's probably the killer. He's such a jerk. Within a month of dating, Ezra began to tell
Jason of her housing issues with her family and she was still kind of like
going back and forth between her mothers and her fathers and Stanley. She wished to
go back to school but wasn't stable enough at the time to do so. She definitely
didn't want to go back to school in Stanley. This struck at the heart of
Jason who spoke with his roommate and the two came up with an agreement that
Ezra would stay with them provided that she begins to work and split rent three
ways. Makes sense. I mean that's fair. His roommate's name is also Alex, so this is
Alex Zink. It's a different Alex than the guy that works at RACES. So Ezra
packed up her 2003 Chevy and Paula and headed to Eau Claire with all of her
things. She's so independent. I know. Isn't she? She just packs up and leaves. It's Ezra.
She's nomadic. She must be older. She must be older. Jason would see that Ezra was an
amazing artist and it became very important to Jason that Ezra pursue her
art and further her education in school with art. So Jason and his roommate Alex
made further... Sorry your computer just made a noise and it scared the shit out of me
because I'm wearing headphones and you're not. Please continue. I haven't heard that noise before.
It's so different. Yeah. That's funny. Go ahead. Jason and his roommate Alex made
further adjustments when Ezra wasn't able to make rent with her part-time job at a
fabric store. The two, especially Jason, still believed that eventually Ezra
would pick herself up and be successful in art. Yeah. So the roommate also
agreed with Jason that Ezra would just help out with whatever she could,
whether it be rent or utilities, groceries, something. Yeah, he's like,
don't worry. She's not a freeloading asshole or anything. She's mature. She's older.
She's older. That's awful. Although Ezra couldn't help necessarily with rent or
utilities, it seemed that around Christmas time Ezra spared no expense when it
came to gifts. Here's this diamond ring I brought you. I bought you. I bought you
this diamond ring. I don't have these gifts for you even though I don't pay
rent even though I am, bro. There you go. Jason and his roommate Alex began to
eventually feel the financial strain of having an extra person in the house. Yeah.
But through all of this, the relationship continued and Jason would
eventually meet Ezra's family. So this became serious. It's not just like, you
can just stay with me. I think he had a really big heart when it came to Ezra.
On August 8th, 2007, Ezra formally met Racy's night shift barista Alex Woodworth,
the man that had given Jason coffee that one night. This was down at a place
called The Joint, which was down the street from Racy's. There is where she
saw Alex Woodworth journaling, sitting alone. Alex Woodworth was born at January
1st, 1994. He is the New Year's baby. The 24-year-old had recently graduated with a
bachelor's in philosophy and biology and was excited to continue his education
and philosophy by pursuing his master's at the University of Oregon. Oh wow. Really
smart dude. Yeah. Ezra recalls asking Alex how he could possibly concentrate in
such a busy establishment as The Joint. It was a bar that was filled with young
people, pinball machines, and a vintage jukebox. Alex shared his writings with
Ezra and she was immediately impressed. Alex at the time had been writing down
his thoughts on cannibalism, not the act specifically, but he used this as a
metaphor, like philosophically. It's like to-do list. Step one, cannibalize
someone. Ezra found this topic exciting as it was a gritty random type of subject
and it's kind of the stuff that hip young kids would be into. I mean I'm kind
of into like learning about the philosophy behind it. I'd be like hell yeah I'll
read this. Yeah he was mostly talking about the consumption of someone and
what it means to like be consumed by someone, but metaphorically not like-
He's not Domer. He puts it really in my mind. Okay Domer. Okay Domer. Got some popsicles in my basement.
Oh no that's family guy. Got some rat meat in my freezer.
Got some popsicles in my basement. Herbert the pervert. So the two talked for
about an hour, Ezra and Alex, discussing various topics, but at some point Jason
arrived at the joint in an effort to locate Ezra. He was looking at Ezra,
looking for Ezra at Races or yeah just around the area. He noticed that his
partner and Alex were talking and the two looked a little too comfortable, which
made Jason feel uncomfortable. In fact oftentimes he felt suspicious of
Ezra and Alex's relationship. Jason approached Ezra and Alex, I mean
eventually he would feel that way. Jason approached Ezra and Alex and
interrupted the two and Ezra would later say that she felt that the
conversation was going well and it did feel somewhat disrespectful that Jason
interrupted the conversation seemingly out of jealousy. She was like I wasn't done
with my conversation and he interrupted on purpose so that he could disrupt
whatever we were talking about. I've been on both sides of that I think where I'm
like I'm having like a really good conversation about a very innocent
topic but I'm just really excited about it. Like I wanted to learn more and I
want to share more you know and then someone's to come up to me and then like
hey what the fuck but I've also been the person that's like hey what the fuck.
You know what I mean? Like you're having too much fun. Yeah we mature, we grow.
But Ezra's so mature, she's still grown up. Right. So Ezra would brush this off
with Jason and would continue spending the evening talking to Alex. The two would
exchange information and at the time the two would remain friends. Late September
2017 Ezra would come to realize that she was pregnant. Oh no. She bought a
pregnancy test that confirmed her suspicions and on October 6th Ezra's
20th birthday. She and Jason would travel to Minneapolis and have an abortion.
Oh man. But it wasn't his kid though so. It was. Oh sorry that was ugly. I thought I
was like plonked towards his eyes. After terminating the pregnancy
Ezra would say quote I felt very empty after. It hurt emotionally and physically
and it made me feel alone and very empty and quote. Oh god I can't even imagine.
Ezra did not allow Jason to be in the room while she had her procedure. Although
Jason paid for the procedure he insisted that he did not coerce Ezra into
having an abortion and that he believed that a woman should have the right to
make that own decision, her own decision. So he was going to just be in a supportive
role wherever he could. Yeah. Ezra said that the reason that she felt that she
needed to terminate the pregnancy was that Jason had expressed on multiple
occasions that he did not wish or care for children. Oh wow. Either way after
the termination Ezra and Jason became very distant. Jason began sleeping on
the couch and they very rarely shared any physical intimacy. Jason said this was
due to the depression that he and Ezra were both experiencing over the
termination of their pregnancy albeit separately. Yeah. Ezra claimed that Jason
started to become controlling and he would snap at her about things around
the house. He became very micromanager-y with her gaslighting her and would
overall be just unapproachable. She likened it to living with her
father, Joe Shane. Wow. Jason in an effort to keep their relationship afloat
often tried to include Ezra and his friends game nights but this was short
lived. Ezra would lose interest in going out to game nights and at least on one
occasion she actually threatened self-harm if Jason were to go without her. Oh my
gosh. And Jason said that she had become to seem or had seemed to become very
manic and have a lot of anxiety and that she would acquire this anxiety very
easily. How old is she? 20. Sounds like the beginning of borderline potentially.
Ezra would accuse Jason of talking shit about her to his friends and like
whenever he would go to game night alone. Keep in mind that these are some of
Jason's closest friends, one being Jason's best friend of five years, John
Hampson and his wife at the time. Jason and John were exceptionally close first
bonding over their military service. John and Ezra did seem to get along however
despite her accusations of Jason's friends not liking her. On one occasion
Jason came home to hear commotion inside of his apartment and peering through the
window he saw John and Ezra horse playing in the living room kind of like
played wrestling or fighting or something. Jason said at the time he did not feel
that A. Ezra wasn't any real danger after all this was his best friend not a
stranger and B. Nothing untoward was happening between John and Ezra. Again
this is his best friend who's married and not some stranger. Yeah and she talks
shit about him so she obviously doesn't like him. John? Yeah. Yeah. She's like oh
you talked shit about me and your friends and they probably talked shit about
they talked shit about me you talked shit about me to them. Yeah and she's like
clearly has her guard up about this guy. Right but then yeah but they're just wrestling. I wouldn't
wrestle someone that I didn't really care for. Yeah. Like get the fuck away from me.
Nonetheless Jason saw this through the window but he felt so comfortable in
both of those facts that he felt like neither of them would do anything. He
actually finished his cigarette outside before he even entered the home. I'm sure
it's fine. I'm sure it's fine. So he said it wasn't an awkward feeling at all
when he entered the residence. Oh no stop. Feeling alone and distant from her
partner Ezra would frequent racies on a regular basis. Often when Jason would
either work late or be out of town for work. Ezra would hang out all night at
the coffee shop and eventually her and Alex Woodworth the night shift barista
would begin talking longer and longer well into closing time. That was a long
sentence. That's alright I got it. Over the course of a few weeks Alex and Ezra
would begin to take long walks after Alex would close the coffee shop. The two
would talk for hours while walking the streets of downtown Eau Claire seemingly
losing track of time more oftentimes than not. Ezra couldn't believe how much
they connected. She confided in Alex about her recent abortion and how it
affected her and Jason's relationship. Alex felt depressed and like an
outsider in his family so they bonded. I just want to say sorry in my opinion
like talking to another single male about the struggles with your
relationship with the guy is a red flag. It is a red flag. It's a no go. That's
very inappropriate in my opinion. I would not do that. I agree. Eventually Alex
and Ezra started holding hands on the walks that they would be sharing.
Eventually they would hug and eventually begin kissing on these locks. I feel like
it probably escalated quicker than that. Probably. The relationship. They held hands
hugged and kissed all of them like a couple minutes. It's so true. They
grew up in the 1940s. Yeah. I saw her angle one night. You want a little bit
of angle? You want some of this? The relationship grew into a sexual one
while Ezra was still living with Jason. This was somewhere between October 6th
and October 29th. We're talking very quickly like you said. Of course
it's like you know Ezra during her testimony was probably like we held
hands and then one time we kissed and then one time we hugged. It was like a fairy
tale. But it's literally probably all in the same night. So Ezra claimed that she
was falling in love with Alex at this point. Ezra had even started staying the
night at Alex's come early November while Jason would be out of town on
assignment. I'm not saying this is Jason's fault at all. Like Ezra is totally to
blame here and so is Alex honestly. But he's giving her the affection that
Jason's not. Even when he is home he's like he said very depressed and very
just like unapproachable and then he's gone for long periods of time. So she's
probably just seeking you know that comfort elsewhere. Yeah I would totally
agree with that. I think that Jason provides something that Ezra didn't have
on her own which is a roof over her head and probably food and very much is
Ezra even said it very reminiscent of her father. Someone that would probably
always be in her corner if she needed it and Jason had a big enough heart to do
that but the affection, the love, she probably didn't get that from him. Yeah
well she probably didn't want that from him. It seemed transactional. That's my
opinion. So even began Ezra even began becoming friendly with Alex's close
friends and roommates and this relationship went on for some time all
the way through the holidays. Ezra described their relationship like Yen
and Yang. Ezra was the light in the sun while Alex was the night in the rain.
They're just so poetic right? I'm so much sure. I'm bright and cheery too.
I'm bright and cheery. The more time Ezra and Alex spent intimately together
their sexual experiences broadened. The once quote-unquote vanilla sex had
grown into certain kinks and fetishes. It was so vanilla that we only held hands.
It was so vanilla. We only held hands when we kissed and it was like missionary.
And showed him some egg. All of a sudden we're both wearing pleather ginsuits.
Escalates quickly. It escalates very quickly. So the two seemed to enjoy their
direction, the direction that the sexual relationship was going. All along
Jason's in the dark or he's just... Traveling a lot for work and he works out of town so
not all the time is he in town but she spends most of her time at Racy's.
And so people are noticing that, oh isn't she with Jason? Is she not with Jason?
And of course I'm sure she felt very comfortable explaining away anything
that anybody had a problem with. Because they see her probably 80% more than they
see Jason. Yeah, it's a good point. If they see her a lot they're probably
gonna be more likely to believe her when Jason says, oh Jason knows, he's cool with it.
Or, oh we broke up. Oh Jason doesn't want to deal with me. Yeah, exactly. And they were roommates.
By early January, Ezra had become increasingly anxious about the months-long
affair. She expressed her concerns to Alex who could not understand why Ezra
just wouldn't leave Jason. After all, Ezra was telling everyone that Jason was
manipulative and abusive since the abortion and that they were essentially
just roommates like we just deciphered. We just made official. By mid to late
January, the pressure seemed to be too much for Alex and he would cut his own
wrists. Immediately he contacted Ezra to help him and Ezra relayed to Jason
that Alex was in need of help and Jason being military insisted that he would go
along to help Alex as well. And has no clue in the world. No, he doesn't. Well,
other than he didn't really appreciate the fact, quote unquote, appreciate the
fact that Ezra and Alex were spending a lot of time together, but he didn't really
have any confirmation that anything had happened. Although I do think that, I mean,
I feel like I know Jason pretty well, I know. I think that even if he did know,
he's still the kind of guy that would have lent out a hand to help. Oh, for sure.
Yeah, exactly. He would probably put everything aside to go home. If it's to save a
life, you know, all the bullshit aside, like I'm gonna save a life. For sure. The
two went to Alex's apartment, but I think he lived in a house where Jason
was able to successfully dress Alex's wounds. And although Alex discussed that
he was having some issues with family and depression, he did not use this time to
tell Jason about his and Ezra's relationship. Yeah. Between February 4th
and February 15th of 2018, Jason went on assignment for approximately a week or so.
Ezra, instead of staying at the apartment that she and Jason shared, she opted to
head home to her mother's house in Stanley. However, Jason would not be made
aware that Ezra not only moved out, but even broke the relationship
off until after he left. Oh my god. So she called him like a few days after he left
and was like, oh, I'm breaking up with you by the way, I moved out. By the way, I'm
gone. I'm gone. Well, I mean, not for nothing, but like probably easier than
dealing with him there because he's probably the kind of guy that would try
to fix it and say, want to have the long conversation and want to, you know,
change or say that he'll change, you know, and I'm sure she didn't want that.
Like an adult though. Exactly. Oh wait, let me just sneak off while you're gone.
Exactly. It was very immature on her part. Very. So at this time, Ezra would also
crash with her father, Jo Shane, during this time, which I already said time.
Time, time. But ultimately decided to find another apartment in Eau Claire area,
possibly with her very close friend, Alex Woodworth.
Hmm. Her and Jason kept in contact while Jason was gone, even though the two were
not together. But shortly after even this, Ezra broke up with Alex too, or broke up
with. Okay. She like stopped hanging out with Alex. After Jason's return, Ezra
expressed that she wanted to come visit him in Eau Claire, but she didn't have
any money. And given that Jason's friend had friends had at this time expressed
their honest opinions about Ezra, staying at Jason's apartment was not an option.
Yeah, they're like, fuck that. Like no. Oh, she's coming into town. She's gonna stay with you.
She's not gonna stay with you, is she? Yeah. You've learned that lesson the first time,
the hard way. Jason decided to rent a hotel room for the two to stay in for one
weekend. During their stay at this hotel, however, Ezra left her iPod out after
falling asleep. Jason then found text messages exchanged between Ezra and
another man, but maybe not the one you'd expect. Not Alex. This man was none other
than Jason's best friend and married John Hansen. The one that they were wrestling.
They were wrestling. Who saw that one coming. Not me. Yes, John Hansen was married
and had a child. So the text between the two were on February 11th, just a few days
after Jason left for assignment and they read, so at this point I will be Ezra
and you will be John. Okay. It's gonna be gross and creepy. I haven't read it. I saw that you emailed me
the transcript, but I haven't read through it yet. Okay. I'm not even gonna just, I'm not gonna go.
Just go. It's stressful looking for places, so that might be a nice to relive. So again,
she's deleted previous text messages and these are the ones that she forgot to delete. Okay.
So this is a continuation of a conversation they were already having. It's stressful looking for
places, so that might be nice to relive. Working out again really does make you want to fuck
everything that moves. Might also be a predator. A body in motion wants to stay in motion. Are
you gonna pound this anytime soon? Sorry, I'm being rude. Not this week. I have my son. It's
alright to be blunt. Just gotta be alright with it coming back your way. It's so crunchy. Okay.
Keep in mind Jason is reading this about his partner and best friend. Yeah. Just let me know
when I can get my next in and out winky face. In and out. Also hanging out and doing art again
would be nice because you're more than just a good dick. Oh, that should be nice. He's such a good
kid. I immediately went back to the fact that he's putting time with his son. After just saying
the word in and out, in and out, and you're more than a good dick. She seems so much older though,
doesn't she? She seems so mature. Totally is a little bit of whoopee. She might as well.
And also isn't like calling someone sex with them in and out like an insult? Yeah, I just
want to know when I can get my next in and out winky. Okay, but she's not like other girls though,
that's the thing. She's not like other girls. She talks nasty. Here's John. Why thank you. He's a
good kid. I'm looking forward to spending some dad time with him. Oh, that melts my heart. I'd love
to paint with him sometime. The following day. Feeling like a snake today. What's wriggling
through your mind? I've been with my son all day. My mind is pretty preoccupied. That's
understandable. Dad time. Two days later, Valentine's Day and before Jason comes home.
See something, say nothing, and drink to forget. Happy Valentine's.
That's beautiful, Ezra. Happy Valentine's. I have a way with words, John.
No, you don't. Sorry, that wasn't me. That wasn't John. It's just it shows. So that's it.
It's not like funny. It's just like cringy. It's so cringy. Like I said, she thinks that she's this
otherworldly. She thinks, oh, you know, it's so edgy of me is to say in and out and you're more than
a good dick. That makes sense for her to say that. But grave in some in and out. She's like,
you should get a burger then. Then you should go. But I like that. I mean, I don't like that because,
okay, two things are happening here. It clearly shows that they have had a sexual past before
except February 11th. And Jason comes back on the 15th, I think. And he left on the fourth.
So this clearly shows that they had a sexual relationship before these messages. But it also
shows that John is not into her at all. The fact that he's like, I'm with my son. I'm preoccupied.
You clearly don't understand that I'm not into sexting you right now because
yeah, but that's the thing is it is a maturity level. You can see it there. You can see that
she's too immature to be like, oh, you're with your son. Have a great day. Yeah. She's like,
hope he's not reading the messages trying to get that good D like, yeah. And then she's like,
oh, let me paint with your son. It's like, girl, we hooked up a few times. And you want to spend
time with my kid very casual to him and very serious to her for sure. So given the context of
the message, it was clear to Jason that Ezra and John had been having a relationship for some time.
Jason immediately screenshot these messages and send them to himself.
It's like in pro. Good boy. Jason then confronted Ezra and Ezra insisted that Jason was looking
into these messages as if she was guilty of cheating, but she clearly wasn't.
I need more of that in and out. You can't really misinterpret that unless she just really likes
in and out more than a good dick. Oh, in style or animal style. You tell me. And then when she
realized that he wasn't into it, she's like, or we can talk about art and wine again. Like,
so yes, she insisted that this was not the case that he was just being paranoid. He tried to gas
light him. She tried to gaslight him. Yeah. And then she's like, what if you're cheating? That's
why you're asking me because you're probably cheating. You're being salacious. Jason then called
John to confront him about the messages. And John eventually admitted that the two did engage in
sexual acts after denying it at first. Furious. Jason needed to get out of the hotel room and
suggested that he and Ezra go to a friend's house in order to calm down and talk as Jason, huh?
He brought her with him. He's like, let's both go. I'd be like, fuck you. Leave in your ass here.
I don't give a shit if you don't live here. Jason said he put it that he wanted to have
a neutral friend that was level headed in the room with him. I love this guy. I know. Very smart
guy. And very mature, emotionally mature. I think so. At first, Ezra maintained that nothing had
happened, but then began to talk about the night of February 4th, which is the day that Jason left.
Yeah. Stating that John had forced himself on her. Oh. Ezra said that? Yes. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.
Oh. Ezra said that her and John had made plans to create art and house them wine that night to
discuss the state of her and Jason's relationship. Is she even 21 at this point? No, she's 20.
Oh, Jesus. But I'm telling you, everybody thought that she was much older because of who she hung
out with, the way she carried herself, or at least who she portrayed herself to be. So I don't think
that anybody was like, hey, how old are you? Yeah. And even if they did, she probably lied. 25. Yeah.
Ezra claimed that John and his roommate were poking fun at her for not being able to drink as much
as them. This is all what she's telling Jason. She claimed that John and his roommate were poking
fun at her for not being able to drink as much as them and that she had also not eaten much that day,
resulting in Ezra becoming so drunk that she became ill. Eventually, John's roommate went to bed,
and after being in the bathroom for some time, Ezra said that all she remembered was being carried
upstairs and placed in John's bed. Ezra said at some point she felt her tights being removed
and that she couldn't remember much, but that quote, a woman knows when things have happened
to her the next morning, end quote. I don't buy it. That's what she claimed. No, the quote, yes,
but I don't buy her whole story, is what I mean. Well, yeah. And I, yeah, we'll see. Although her
memory was hazy, Ezra said that she did feel like there were sexual acts that happened to her,
but that she didn't resist. And in fact, she remembered that the sex was unprotected. So she
remembers that the sex is unprotected. She remembers not saying no, but she doesn't remember anything
else in that, yeah. That, I mean, that's not unreasonable. Like if someone is being truthful
about that, that's not out of the realm of possibilities that you only remember certain
things, but like certain things that are important, like it wasn't protected. When these acts were
done, she was then told by John to go to another guest room in order to sleep, what she did, and
she stayed there until the next morning. And that was because he was concerned that the roommate would
see Ezra come out of his bedroom in the morning. So she was to sleep in the other room because
he was married. Maybe he shouldn't have fucked up. Well, and she's with Jason. Yeah. When the two
woke up the next morning, John and Ezra got into John's car for him to take her back to the apartment
that Jason and Ezra shared. Ezra told Jason that she was very uncomfortable because John acted like
nothing had happened the night before. She was like, he just like seemed like everything was fine,
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and Ezra's apartment, John walked Ezra inside and there in Jason's bed, which Ezra shared with him,
she claimed that John pressured her into sexual acts once again. What? The two engaged in unprotected
sex once again. So she was coherent at this point. She was sober. Yeah. I'll be it probably hung over.
Well, yeah, but you know. A few days later is when Ezra would break up with Jason while he was
out of town on an assignment. So this happened. Jason left on the February 4th. This happened
February 4th, February the morning of February 5th. And then like I think it was like the seventh
or eighth is when she broke up with Jason and moved out. Okay. So someone being like in that
situation might have thought, oh, I'm very, I feel a lot of guilt about this. Even if it wasn't her
fault, even if she was taken advantage of, I'm just going to break it off with Jason in order to
avoid having to tell him what happened. Yeah. And absolutely. That is, I feel like we've definitely
heard stories where that's happened before. I don't want to say like that's reasonable, but
it's understandable. An immense amount of guilt, right? Yeah. So Ezra would move back in with her
mom and Alex Woodworth would help her move. Of course he was all like, bet, right? Yeah,
I'll help you move. Let me back up your ship for you. Even after she broke up with him. She's still
kind of going back and forth with Alex and Jason all the time. That's just a theme. Okay.
So again, oh, so I had mentioned previously that she had stopped talking to Alex during this whole
time. So she essentially had Alex move her stuff to her moms and then that's when she broke up with
Alex or broke it off with Alex. Yeah. So the doozy of all this, John Hansen is actually really
good friends with Alex Woodworth too. So all three of them are friends. They're all just
dipping from the same pot. I'm trying to think of, yeah, they got the, that's gross. Yeah, all the
same fountain pen. So yeah, gross. So yes, they all knew each other pretty well. So this was the
timeline of events that had happened then, but we're going to get back to the conversation that
Ezra and Jason are having inside their level headed friends home. Okay, after they left the hotel.
So yes. So now the conversation has shifted. Jason is saying now out loud that he is going
to kill John Hansen for assaulting Ezra. Jeez. He's like, right. He's like, let's go find a friend
that's level headed. Oh, we'll kill that motherfucker. I need this guy to talk me down from murdering
this guy. Yes, everything begins to escalate. So their level headed friend decides to call police
because the situation's becoming right. I'm saying like, these are a good group of guys. Well,
so far there's at least one asshole that we've been told of. Oh God. Keep going. Right. So again,
the friend called police and the police arrive. They separate all parties and Ezra herself asked
to go to the police station to get out of the tense situation to speak with police privately,
which again is kind of her MO right now. Like she just dips like whenever she feels stress
or anxiety. I mean, which I feel like is a normal flight or fight response. But it has,
it's been like, oh, can't live with Jo Shane, can't live with Rosalina, gonna go to Eau Claire as
often as possible. Escape that situation by moving in with Jason. Now I'm gonna escape that situation
by moving in with my mom. I'm gonna escape the situation by going with police. It's definitely
a coping mechanism. Did you see her parents, her parents had separated when she was younger, right?
Right. But they lived with her dad for a little while. No, she lived with her mom mostly. They
both live in Stanley though, not very far from each other. So she kept in contact with Jo Shane.
It's the only father she calls him dad. Yeah. It's the only father that she's ever known. But
in her later years after bouncing around from Jason's in Eau Claire to her mom's, she was staying
with Jo Shane every once in a while. Yeah. I'm just thinking it might be like a, almost like a
pattern of behavior in her family. Like her mom left when it got hard with Jo Shane, right? And
so now she's like, oh, well, that's what you do when things get hard as a female identifying person
or whatever. You know, oh, you just leave. It's just easier. We'll just start fresh over here and
we'll just move here and we'll just do that. You know, I definitely think it started when she was
younger though, because she never knew her bio father. So I think that she is used to men using
her or leaving. And so I think that a lot of it is garnering attention from men and the appreciation
that she can get. And I think, I'll talk about it towards the end too, that I have another theory.
So yes, at the police station, Ezra through tears described the incident she experienced with John.
She never used the word rape or assault, but did state that John had been physically aggressive
with her in the past, including the night that Jason saw the two horse playing through the window.
That's not unusual either. Sorry, I keep interrupting. Oh, you're fine. It's very,
I would say rare for a woman that's been sexually assaulted to immediately use the word rape.
I have heard multiple instances when someone can't accept that that's what happened to them until
many years later, because it's such a harsh word and you don't want to believe that you
fell victim to that or that maybe that's not what happened. Maybe I'm overplaying it. I've
heard instances where people gaslight themselves and they say, oh no, I'm just overreacting or
like, well, I didn't say no or whatever, kind of like using it as like, oh, it's not a big
deal, kind of brush it off. Unfortunately, that's what people are led to think that they need to do
when they do get sexually assaulted. So it's not unusual that she wouldn't immediately use that
term. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was in a physically abusive relationship starting at the age of 17,
and I didn't realize that I was in a domestic violent situation. It became, that just sounded
so harsh to me, you know, to describe someone who I thought I loved at the time. I'm like, no, no,
no, it's a, he just gets really angry or he just gets really, you know, like sometimes he can't
control himself. Making excuses. Yeah. But, you know, it was probably years after I removed myself
from that situation to be like, damn, that was a domestic violent situation. Like, shit, look,
that's heavy. No, it is definitely hard for sure. And I mean, credit to all the people that have been
through anything like that and are able to be strong and say that and say, fuck that, I'm not
letting that happen again. Right. Right. So Ezra maintained that although she did not exactly want
to be in a sexual encounter with John, she also didn't use the word no or consider the encounter
to be an assault. So with that, the police gave Ezra some pamphlets containing programs and counseling
for counseling information, but then was free to leave the station. Well, and that sucks too. Sorry,
I'm really sorry. Last thing I want to say, that sucks too, because if she's not willing to use
that terminology and she's just brushing it off like it's no big deal, the police aren't going to
pursue it like asexual. They legally can't because they, she didn't, she committed, she essentially
reported no crime. Exactly. I mean, that's not her fault. It's not at the end of the day. However,
they just can't, they can't use it or anything. Right. And that's the thing is like, I just feel
like in this case specifically, I think that the police were correct in being like, here's,
when, when or if you feel the need to reach out to somebody, here's the information.
Absolutely. So after her interview, Ezra further confessed that she had also been intimate with
Alex. She confessed this to Jason. Oh, okay. But this was also unwanted contact is what she
claimed. She stated that the day after John forced Ezra into sexual acts, she confided in Alex
Woodworth, who then took advantage of Ezra's delicate state. Okay. So now she's been assaulted
by two people within 48 hours. So we're seeing a pattern here. Yes. Then again, this is not to
say that it didn't happen. Yeah. This is Ezra's account. I will say that there was no evidence
whatsoever that either of these assaults occurred. And it's hard though, because you can't,
you cannot write that off and say, no, that didn't happen. You need to believe people when they say
that. Right. And that's the hard part about this. Of course. And as I'm saying, I'm not necessarily
not believing her. Yeah. It's just that that one sentence, there was no evidence that this occurred.
And you also know the whole story, you know, as it goes into it.
Even with all this information, Jason continued to support Ezra and tried to make the relationship
work. After all, he cared very deeply for Ezra still, plus the poor girl had in his mind been
assaulted twice by two people he thought he could trust. What a fucking guy. I really hope this
this guy turns out to be like the guy like, I hope he's okay.
The listeners are going to hear it first. I have a little bit of a crush on Jason Mengel.
So come March, things were starting to settle down for Ezra. She had begun staying with her
mom and began working at a local school with special needs elementary school kiddos. Okay.
And she was in line to accept a new position elsewhere.
Her and Jason maintained contact for this duration of time. And Ezra began to feel loving feelings
towards Jason again. And she's about 20, 21? She's 20. And this is all like within the six of us.
Oh yeah, you're right. Okay. So this is in March. So Jason and her met in July, August of 2017.
This is just she's 20 in October. Yeah. Yeah. So again, her and Jason maintained contact and
Ezra felt like she was beginning to fall in love with Jason. And maybe the distance is just what
they needed. Ezra went to Eau Claire to visit Jason in mid March. And they became intimate very
quickly. This is like kind of the first time that they saw each other again. This attempt at
another chance with Jason was all at the behest of her mother who did not agree on the two dating
again. She felt like the relationship wasn't a good one. That maybe Ezra extended herself too much,
vice versa, Jason extending himself too much. Not only that, but the age gap. Yeah.
Yeah. Ezra would continue to come into town and spend time with Jason and the Racy's crowd.
But now people were beginning to talk about her negatively kind of turn on Ezra because now it's
like, there's all this other commotion, right? Because she accused John of sexual assault.
She, well, she didn't accuse him of sexual assault. The two had engaged in sexual acts
with or without her verbal consent. That's because she was very adamant in the trial. She
said, I never used the word assault. I never did. I never used the word rape. I never used the word
assault as a pertain to John or Alex. But the words getting around, right? Yeah. And of course,
Alex is homies with everyone that we works there. What is it? Racy's? Racy's. Racy Delaynes. Well,
it's called Racy Delaynes, but they call it Racy's. Yeah. That's a cute little coffee shop. If you
ever get to look at pictures, so cute. I keep thinking this is a bar. No, yeah, it's a little
coffee shop. So at this point, the situation seems to become even more tense when Ezra's phone
number was written on the inside of one of the bathroom stalls, including the words,
fuck me with her phone number. Cute. Right? Oh my God, that's going to do wonders for her mental
health. Oh my gosh. So, okay, and I'm not trying to... Do you think it was her? I think it was her.
I think it was her. I think that she did it on purpose because I think that she wanted to...
Her next angle in my mind was like, okay, now people don't like me. Now it's like,
I'm going to lean into being a victim here. Paint the picture. Paint the picture of being a victim
so that Jason doesn't leave. And so, yes, she had taken a picture and sent it to Jason.
And so Jason continued to have Ezra's back by then going to Racy's. They're unisex bathrooms
by the way. So it's not like it was just in a boy's bathroom or a girl's bathroom. They're gender
neutral bathrooms. Jason continued to have Ezra's back by covering the message with the words,
quote, life starts now, which is something that Ezra said that her dad used to say.
Okay, no, sweet. It's really sweet. I love Jason. No, Jason's literally the best. He took a picture
of it and then he had crossed it out and he wrote life starts now and he's like, I wrote it there
as a reminder to her that this isn't the end of everything. You can change this. Like, you can
turn this around. I feel like if Casey, like, if someone wrote my name in the bathroom with my
number instead of Casey, she would just cross out, fuck me and just leave the number. I'm just kidding.
But he would be like, LOL, babe, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. No fucking deleting. Get me rid of it.
Oh, that's sweet though. A few nights before March 22nd, Jason went out with a few friends,
namely his roommate, Alex, Alex Zink, and his girlfriend, Jenna. Not Jason's, but Alex's.
Jason proceeded to get drunk and the conversation soon swayed into Jason's friend's dislike of
Ezra. But most notably, Jenna confirmed that Alex Woodworth and Ezra's relationship was deeper
than what Ezra expressed to Jason. Yeah, she's like, yeah, well, we had, like, sexually assaulted me
or he took advantage of me or whatever she said. That's all she said. But he doesn't know that they
were, like, dating together for a while. Jason was uninterested in hearing what Jenna had to say
that night, so he headed home into bed. The next morning, Jason woke to a letter that Jenna had
written to Jason in regards to her feelings of Ezra and her overall concern for Jason. Jason hung
over but levelheaded, considered what Jenna had said the night before, and in the letter, and that
the relationship between Alex and Ezra had clearly been over some months and not just one incident,
as Ezra had explained. Honestly, good for Jenna, though. Yeah, she was like, well, this is what
I heard. What a nice girl. And like, yeah. And then she was like, okay, well, Jason's just drunk,
I'll just tell him in the morning. And so she wrote him a letter. On the back of this letter,
Jason then compiled a timeline of events and much like a scene from A Beautiful Mind,
the dots began to connect for Jason and he could see a pattern. This poor guy, he's like,
I've done nothing but try to help her. Be nice to her and believe her and forgive her and try to
make it work. Done nothing but sleep with my friends. Yeah. So Jason called and confronted
Ezra about the discrepancy in her story. Again, Ezra's kind of back and forth with Joe Shane and
her mom. Ezra had no answers for this. And Ezra would request to actually hang on to the letter.
She was like, oh, can I have that letter? I want to read that letter. Can I have it? And Jason agreed.
If I was Jenna, I'd be like, hey, no, no, no, no, no, this is for you. Well, I mean, it's Jason's.
Yeah, but I think it was more like, what the fuck is this kind of a thing? Like, you know,
I see. Like, let me see this letter then, you know, whatever. So Jason would then begin to pull back
and Ezra would be able to feel this, of course. So, you know, maybe not as many phone calls or
talking as much. Ezra would soon tell Jason that she felt that she could no longer hang on to certain
things that Alex had given her over the time, their time together. And she swore to Jason that
she would fix everything. And she would tell Alex off once and for all and exchange their stuff and
finally be done with it, right? So including their friendship, she just wouldn't even be friends with
Alex either. She promised to dedicate herself to Jason 100%. A few days passed and by March 22nd,
Jason began his morning with a phone call to Ezra. The two chatted about what their days held and
Ezra said that she would be staying with her dad and that her dad wasn't letting her use her car.
I think it was like, no insurance or no registration or something and he was like,
you're not going to drive the car, you know. Yeah. Jason hung up with Ezra and headed down to Water
Street to do some laundry and periodically in between loads, he was going up to Racy's to grab
coffee and chill. On one trip back to Racy's, Jason was sitting outside on the benches smoking a
cigarette when he saw Ezra walking towards the shop. Usually Ezra would let him know if she was
going to be in town so that they could hang out together. So he found this to be kind of odd that
she would just come to town. Yeah. Especially because she had told him, I can't go to town because
I don't have my car. Yeah, that's true. Ezra seemed upset, said very little as she passed by Jason
and another regular and went inside Racy's. Soon, Jason realized that Ezra was missing from Racy's,
like he had been inside and then she either probably left and he didn't notice or she maybe
left through the nucleus and didn't notice or whatever it was for the nucleus. The nucleus.
That's the little food shop and they're connected to- Oh, that's what it's called.
It's called the nucleus. I thought that was like a term. No, racy delanes and then the nucleus.
Yeah. He grew concerned as mentioned earlier, Ezra looked upset when she showed up and he also
knew that at some point, like because earlier in the week she had said that she was going to
meet up with Alex and so he got concerned. Yeah. He worried for her safety and the escalation
of the conversation. Sure enough, Jason hopped on his bike and saw Ezra's car outside of Alex's
place and it was idling. Jason also noticed that the note that Jenna had given Jason was
sitting on her passenger seat. I fucking knew it. I knew it. Jason waited for a few minutes outside
of Alex's home but soon became uncomfortable with the amount of time Ezra was inside because
you left your car idling. Yeah. So if your car is idling, that just kind of suggests you're
going to run inside and come out. And he also got there, I mean, we're talking maybe maybe 10
minutes after her 15 minutes and that's a long time to already be inside. Exactly.
So Jason decided to approach the door. He opened the door, it was unlocked and Jason's phone actually
started to ring like somebody was calling him and he explained it in the trial that it was a very
noticeable ring tone, like something that would be recognized by Ezra. He then heard Ezra say,
quote, let him help you or let him let him help you or let me help you. And Jason, it was in a
very loud tone. So Jason ran up to Alex's bedroom and he thought that maybe Alex was trying to harm
himself again. So he walks into Alex's bedroom, the door was cracked and Alex and Ezra are sitting
on his bed. However, both parties seem to be fine, although they look like they were deep in
discussion. Jason then recommended that the two talk in a more public setting. He was like,
I don't know why you guys would choose to talk in private about something that's very
sensitive and that if you guys are going to talk about this, I'd rather you do it in public,
it would make me feel better, especially given Alex's seemingly already one suicide attempt.
So Jason decided to walk outside. He said, I'm going to be outside for the time being,
I would like y'all to both come downstairs when you have a moment. And he just continues to be a
good guy, level headed and emotionally mature. So Jason walks outside by his bike by Ezra's car,
he starts smoking a cigarette and he's like, you know what, just to be sure, I'm going to call
the police. So he calls the police and by the time the police arrive for the welfare check,
the two started coming outside of the home anyways. So there didn't really seem to be that much of an
escalation anymore. The police kind of just left the scene. They said, you know, as long as you
guys go somewhere else, talk, you can talk privately, but in public, you know, let's just,
you know, Jason, you move on and then you all go do whatever you're going to do, right? So the
conversation seemed to be resolved or at least calm for the time being. And Alex and Ezra were,
they told Jason we're going to go to a local park and that's where we're going to talk. So that's
what they did. Alex, I think Alex drove Ezra's car or vice versa, I can't remember. Jason went
back to Racy's after that. And at 415, a 90 year old dairy farmer by the name of Don Sipple was
sitting inside his home about to have dinner for the evening. All of a sudden he noticed a shadow
run past his den window. And then he started receiving a frantic ringing of his doorbell.
Mr. Sipple opened his door and was met by a bruised and bloodied young girl. Her clothes were
torn and she was barefoot. She immediately begged for Mr. Sipple to call for help, as he brought
her into the warmth of his home. She could not recall her name or what had happened to her,
but then she recollected that she was assaulted and she was remote Claire. The police arrived
and took the girl to the hospital, where the girl referred to herself as Monica Carlin.
In her one request was for someone to contact Jason Mangle. What?
Hospital staff and police noted that Monica was covered in blood and mud. She also had a few
cuts on her, but most notably was a carving on her left arm. Cut into Monica's arm was the word
boy. Police were on the lookout for any potential suspicious people in the area,
as Monica had not been able to describe anyone who could be her perpetrator. She had no recollection
of her perpetrator. I'm sure she's right-handed. Eventually it was found that there was no registered
name for a Monica Carlin in the area and Ezra gave them her full name. Although Ezra was hysterical
at Mr. Sipple's house, she was notably calm for someone who went through what she looked like she
had gone through. Jason, you know, he was going to and from Races and Laundrie and all that sort of,
became concerned that Ezra and Alex, after hours of not hearing from them, something had happened.
And at some point, Jason went to the police station to ask for help in locating the two,
as he was concerned about Alex's prior behavior or self-harm. He was told by police that Ezra
had been assaulted and that Alex and Ezra's car was still missing. At this point, a manhunt was on
was on to locate Alex as he was now wanted for attacking Ezra. Oh my god. Police came into
Ezra's hospital room in order to get further information from Ezra. She said that she remembered
being in a park, but not much more after that. The search for Alex would eventually end when
Alex's body was located on Mr. Sipple's property. On the property? Yes, it was a pretty big property,
but yes. Oh my god. Ezra's car was stuck in the mud and there in the back seat, Alex was found
halfway hanging out of the back passenger seat door and he had been stabbed 16 times in the head,
neck, chest, and groin. Oh my god, that's so personal. Very personal. I mean, obviously it was
her, but that's so personal. It was only after Alex's body was found did Ezra confess that she
was the one who hurt Alex, but it was out of self-defense. She claimed that he tried to sexually
assault her yet again, and after carving the word boy into Ezra's arm, she found a knife in her
middle console and stabbed Alex several times, but only to get away and that she had no idea how
many times she stabbed him or that his wounds were fatal. Yeah, you stabbed him on multiple
like parts of his body. That's not self-defense. Well, the fact that she tried to claim that he
carved boy into her arm, like how she still was using the knife. Yeah, how still were you sitting
and that she just happened to have a knife. Yeah, of course. You couldn't just grab the knife that
he was using to carve into your arm? Right. Maybe they shared it. I don't know. Yeah.
Two weeks after Alex Woodworth was killed, Ezra McCannless would be arrested for first degree
murder. During the trial, Ezra claimed that she was no longer masculine identifying and she had
grown her hair out to middle length. She wore lots of pink and floral patterns, and it was noted that
she constantly doodled in court, claiming that it was an anxiety soother... whatever.
She has such a nonchalantness about her. Yeah. That's just like...
Association. Oh, yes. I can, you know, can you tell us what happened on March 22nd? Yes, I, this, and
you know, I loved Alex and it's not... it's not as vacant as maybe Jody Arias, but it's very removed.
It is very removed. It's very dissociative, for sure. It's really interesting to watch and, you
know, she portrays herself to be this mousy. In fact, her defense attorney, as soon as she gets up
and she said, oh, you know, okay, we're gonna bring Ezra McCannless to the stand, you know, and
then Ezra sits down and she's like, okay, state your name and she's like, Ezra McCannless. Okay,
Ezra, I understand that you're very soft-spoken, so you're gonna have to speak up for the court.
And it's like, no, what happened to you more than a good dick girl, you know, like...
That's not soft-spoken. That's not soft-spoken. Come on. Come on.
I could have gained it and had it in that courtroom. Come on.
Exactly. So it's very interesting to see the way that they portrayed her. So my point in saying
that is that Ezra not always had very short hair, but she did consider herself to be more masculine
presenting. And in the trial, she portrays herself to be this very demure woman, you know, woman,
all of a sudden. And I think it's because people would be confused about her identity and how
she could express that in a way that jurors would understand. Well, it's also probably a, oh, look
at this sweet, soft-spoken, nice girl. She could never have done something like this unless she
was sexually assaulted. That's true. You know. And she's so nice that, I mean, she's probably been
sexually assaulted. And she's so small. She can't stand up for herself. The defense claim that Alex
was a mentally sick individual who had been coming increasingly unhinged and homicidal
after his suicide attempt or seeming suicide attempt. Alex was physically and sexually
abusive towards Ezra, often holding her down and blindfolding her during their sexual encounters.
So again, she's, you know, saying, oh, it was vanilla, but then it got really kinky. And these
are all the things that he liked, like he liked to hold me down. He liked to blindfold me. Yeah,
just talk shit about the guy that you murdered. He often called her boy during sexual encounters
and had a sexual desire to control Ezra and wanted her to act as a young boy in his own
sick fantasies. This is a fucking story. So she's essentially saying, oh, yeah, I kind of identified
as masculine, but he's the one that really wanted me to be a boy. Mm-hmm. Furthermore, her size alone
made her a victim as she was only five to and 110 pounds at the time of the crime. And therefore,
she could not have felt in control when these sexual acts occurred, let alone in this car.
This is all her defense. This is her defense. The prosecution maintained that it was a thought
out premeditated plan to kill Alex, bringing the knife with her and not telling Jason ever plans
to be in town as an alibi. Yeah, for sure. Furthermore, experts testified that Ezra's wounds
and torn clothing were all self inflicted. Yep. Ezra would have eventually admit to cutting
herself because she was so distraught after stabbing Alex that she needed to cut herself to
feel relief. In the, you're carving letters into your arm. Boy. No, that was absolutely
premeditated. Yeah. If you wanted to plane out. Sorry. So distraught that you wanted to harm
yourself, you wouldn't carve a word into your body. Right. And it wouldn't be a word like, boy,
it might be something different if it was a word. And it was very superficial. And I'm not saying
that people that don't self-harm in that manner don't create superficial wounds. Yeah, for sure.
I'm just saying that it was, the letters were so precise that you would have to stay still for it.
You couldn't, it's not something that would happen during a struggle. Yeah. The wounds were
not deep is what I'm saying. If you were trying to get at someone with a knife to carve something
into their arms, you probably cut them kind of deep. Yeah. So the jury did not buy that she was,
that she wasn't trying to frame Alex for his own murder. Yeah. On November 19th, 2019, Ezra
McCandless was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life without, with the possibility
of parole, after 50 years. Ezra almost immediately cut her hair off after her conviction. She is
currently housed in the Techeida, Techeida? Techeida? Techeida. Techeida Correctional, Correctional
Institutions. Jesus. And I think it's Fond de Lac, Fond de Lac, Wisconsin. Hmm. Sounds like friendship
there. Probably mispronounced all of that. Sorry y'all. Techeida? Techeida Correctional
Institutions in Fond de Lac, Wisconsin. There you go. Let us know. Email us. Yeah. And let me know
if you like that accent or that voice. Whatever that is. We love that old man voice. That's what
reminds me when Don Siple, the man, the 90 year old man that was on that, oh my gosh, a dairy farmer,
he lived his whole life on that farm. Good friend. When he was a little baby. That was his parents
place. And then his daughter had a house next to him and they shared a driveway and he was,
yes, oh my gosh. And wait, he was like, oh, Don Siple, you know, like the way he talked with
a little dairy farmer. And then at one point, I think it's the, is it the defense attorney? I
think it's the defense, oh no, it's the prosecuting attorney. He asks something to Don Siple and he
is, Don just, he smiles and he knobs his head and he's like, did you hear me, sir? And he's like,
oh no, I'm sorry, what'd you say? It's just a green. It was so cute. He's adorable. Oh, to be a 90 year
old dairy farmer. But then, oh my gosh, like to go through that at 90. Like this girl who's, I mean,
and there's, if anybody wants to hear it, I did not include the 911 call because there's a lot of
just, I would have to edit it down. There's just a lot of extra, like he's like, oh, is someone
still working today to the dispatcher? Oh my gosh, I love that. And the dispatcher was like, oh no,
they're not working today. He's like, oh, okay, like, that's a bummer. Anyway, this girl's bleeding
on my front porch. But you can tell, like he's trying to find the normalcy in something at the
moment because he was very distraught. She couldn't articulate what her name was. Ornia says she's
covered in mud and blood. Her toes are completely torn. So it's just he's trying to help but also,
you know, yeah, it was really sweet. It's funny. Ezra's conflicts within herself considering her
gender may have affected Ezra's overall mental health. According to the Mayo Clinic, gender
dysphoria might cause adolescents and adults to experience a marked difference between inner
gender identity and assigned gender that lasts for at least six months, which this whole time,
you know, had she identified as male using he, him pronouns in high school or right out of high
school, that would be this entire six, seven months that this occurred. The difference is shown by
at least two of the following. A difference between gender identity and genitals or secondary sex
characteristics such as breast size, voice and facial hair. In young adolescents, a difference
between gender identity and anticipated secondary sex characteristics, a strong desire to be rid
of these genitals or secondary sex characteristics or a desire to prevent the development of secondary
sex characteristics, a strong desire to have genitals and secondary sex characteristics of
another gender, a strong desire to be or to be treated as another gender, and a strong belief
of having the typical feelings and reactions of another gender. Gender dysphoria may also cause
significant distress that affects how you function in social situations at work or at school or other
areas of your life. Gender dysphoria might start in childhood and continue into adulthood and
adolescence, I'm sorry, adolescence and adulthood, or you might have periods in which you no longer
experience gender dysphoria. You might also experience gender dysphoria around the time
of puberty or much later in life. Comorbidities to gender dysphoria can include but are not limited
to depression and anxiety, suicide related events, eating disorders, and substance abuse or various
addictions. In my opinion, I feel like maybe Ezra's need for attention related to her wanting to feel
attracted by her identifying gender. I feel like she maybe found a lot of gratification or satisfaction
in being liked or attracted to while she was more masculine presenting. I think because of a lot of
the men in her life being that domineering figure, she might have felt like, oh, well, I can identify
as male and maybe I'll get that same gratification that they seem to have. Right, yeah, and I do
agree with that too. Especially with Jason, she could not let go of Jason. It was a 13 year
age gap. I feel like maybe, you know, and I hate using this term like daddy issues, right? I mean,
the thing is, is that there is a missing parental link there. And I think that with Jason, he
fulfilled some of those things being a provider to her. And like I said, I do also feel like it is
linked to maybe a gender dysphoria of some kind where she felt like being representative of something
more masculine or somebody more masculine and being accepted by someone that she feels like
is a father figure. I feel like that was a win-win for her. Asra McCannless has since petitioned
for a new trial, claiming that there is one very big point that she never brought up during her trial.
It was a lifelong secret for her that she was a victim of sexual abuse her whole life. And the
abuse had only discontinued a few months before her relationships with Alex and Jason. She claimed
that Alex's death is the result of unwanted advances and Asra blacked out from a PTSD episode.
She has not yet named her sexual assailant. I think it's just so hard in a situation like this
because once again, like you always want to believe somebody when they claim that they've been a
victim of sexual assault. Right. You don't want to say, no, you weren't a victim of that. I mean,
that never happened because then you're just like adding fuel to the fire. However, it's hard in this
situation because there's been seemingly all these instances where it's been suggested that she's
been sexually assaulted and the perpetrator or evidence just doesn't line up with that being the
case. Right. As far as her being sexually assaulted as a child and being raised, who knows? She's the
only one that knows that if she was, the perpetrator is the only other person that knows that, you
know, but until she names somebody and there's someone that potentially comes forward, which
who's going to admit that they did that? Honestly. Yeah. Then we really just don't know. Yeah. I
think that I think you're right in that. I think that she can say that, but they would absolutely
have to be some evidence that this is something that is a pattern for her that she was sexually
abused as a young person. And again, this is not my opinion. This is something that would
only hold up in court is that there's evidence that that had occurred and that there was continued
evidence that she was assaulted by, and John might not even pertain to the story, right,
if there's no evidence there. But as far as the trial that Alex had intentions of harming Ezra
and taking advantage of her sexually, and there were things throughout the trial,
Alex Woodruff's own words when, because he was a philosopher, he wrote a lot. And there were a lot
of writings that they chose to dissect, seemingly trying to implicate Alex as being a perverse person.
Me personally, I had no biases when I began watching it because that was my understanding
of the case before I even started researching it, that she had been abused or sexually assaulted
by someone throughout this case. And I didn't really know the history of her and Alex. But
reading back, I'm like, I really don't see that in those writings. I really don't. It's very
objective, subjective. And it just, it didn't, he didn't strike me as that kind of person. He had
a lot of future goals for himself. And again, not to say that people that don't have future goals
for themselves can't be perpetrators of these crimes. But it definitely seemed like Alex
fell in love with Ezra. Ezra did not love Alex. I think that she got something out of that relationship
that she didn't get from Jason. And she was terrified to lose Jason more than anything.
And she said, like, I'm happy to just break things off with Alex. And her mind, it might have meant,
like, get rid of Alex. Yeah. Yeah, I think that she just really, I don't know if she necessarily,
okay, so that again, the guy that I watched the whole trial, that the prosecution said that knife,
the defense said that knife has been in her car for forever because it's a utility knife. Yeah.
The prosecution said she just put that knife in her car the day before. So, you know, which is it,
we don't really know. We don't really know. But do I think that as we're started out the day,
wanting to kill Alex, I don't really know. But the fact of the matter is, does it happen? It
happened in a very gruesome way. And that she withheld that information. If it was self defense,
why wouldn't she tell Don Cipoll, please, I stabbed someone because, you know, I'm trying to escape
someone and they're coming after me. And she claimed that she didn't know where she was or
what had happened and all this other stuff. And they didn't find Alex until the next day.
Who knows, it might have been, you know, she, I mean, the coming to town unexpectedly and having
the note on her passenger seat are both red flags for me. It might have been that she was gonna go
and engage in sexual activity with Alex and then try to say that he assaulted her. And maybe she
started like a physical altercation so that he would leave marks on her. And when he wasn't reciprocating,
she was like, well, shit, what do I do? Yeah, I've tried to now frame him and he knows, you know,
now she puts herself in this situation where she's like, well, there's already a knife here,
you know, what else am I gonna, whatever? I don't know. I don't know what she was thinking. None of
a stupe is that's her. I think that me personally, okay, like if I was gonna build this, this whole
day, right? I think that she lied to Jason about going to Eau Claire. I think that she knew she
was gonna do that. It was not an impulse thing. Yeah, I think that she went with the intention
to meet up with Alex at some point. I think that with Jason showing up at Alex's,
and then Ezra hearing that ringtone, she was like, oh, I have to make up a reason why I'm at Alex's
or whatever. Again, I don't know why the car was idling. I'm not entirely sure on that. Maybe she
didn't intend to just run inside. But I think the fact that like, Jason was there and I'm not saying
this is Jason's fault. Nothing. The only person who's faulted is Ezra, that Alex is dead. But I
think Jason's presence there, I think she realized shit, like, I'm not gonna be able to get out of
this. Every time I come to Alex's, Jason's gonna swing by. Like, there's no way out of this.
I think the reason that Alex is in the backseat is because Ezra coarsed him into getting into
the backseat. To have sex. To probably have sex. And then get his guard down and then attack him.
And what happened in between that, I don't know. Yeah, it's just a wild story. When I said earlier
that I had thought that the name sounded familiar, I was thinking for some reason, which this wouldn't
make sense. But the girl at the Cesar Hotel that was found in the water tower, was it her name,
Ezra? No, her name was Elisa. Okay, Elisa Lam. I was thinking and I was like, that wouldn't make
sense because she obviously is not a murderer. But yeah, that was a good one though. I've never
heard that story and I didn't realize how recent it was either. I know sometimes we say, not to say
this or not not to say this, but that sometimes we're like, oh, I hate saying, I can't like,
so why that's over? Never want to think about it again. But I mean, just a heavy case. It is.
She was so young or is so young. I mean, she she fucked up her whole life. Yeah. I mean,
she's not gonna be out until she 70. You know, she makes it that long. I mean, who knows anything
can happen. I think that the moral of the story is that Jason Mangel is a hero. Yeah, I know.
Actually, I'm really glad that he's okay. Not that I'm happy that anyone got hurt. No, no, of
course. I mean, definitely feel really, really poorly for Alex, you know, like that shitty
situation. And it's really unfortunate that anybody got hurt, you know, in the situation.
And especially with someone like mental illness wise, I mean, I know you kind of talked about
gender dysphoria and like maybe depression. Gender dysphoria, I think you maybe, you know,
have said in the past, certain onsets for personality disorders. Yeah, that's true.
I think that Ezra's need and craving for attention is a huge motivator and that can be a borderline
personality or or even a dependent personality disorder. It's true. Yeah. And and her need to
want to be right all of the time and escape in situations where she's not right. Yeah.
Instead of talking it out. And like I said, one of those common abilities for gender dysphoria
is addiction. And that can be a sexual addiction or attention attention to addiction. And so I
also think that maybe there's some some of that going on there for sure. Yeah, that's just my
opinion, though. I'm not licensed to diagnose. Well, good case. Thank you guys for joining us.
We profusely apologize about the the beginning of the beginning. We're very, very critical of how
we sound. At that point, we had already gotten like 10 minutes in and we were like, we have just
got to keep going. Like we need to get this done. And we hope you guys don't mind hearing that poor
editing. I feel so gross about it. It's gonna feel really gross when it posts. I know. But you guys
know that we want to bring you the content on time and the best content. And we want to make sure
that we're being true to the dates that we set. So that's why we was like, you know what, I don't
think the mind will just go. It's only the first 10 minutes. Yeah, y'all love us. We love you.
Yes. Sometimes little snafus happen. Well, thank you guys for joining us. And we will see you on
Monday with another mental breakdown. Yes. All right. Love you. Bye.
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