Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, the Minty Breaky.
I'm Coelle.
I'm Minty Breaky.
I'm Kenna.
Hi!
Good to see you.
I hope everybody's having a good new year so far.
Yeah.
We're excited to be back every Monday with you guys.
Yes, that's really exciting.
We definitely took a long break.
It was well deserved and I think it really helped us kind of get everything prepared
for this year, but we're really excited to be back twice a week and to have people call
us crazy for doing 12 episodes a week.
And I also have an Associates of Science under my belt at this point now.
There we go.
I know.
Well, I'm leaving my bachelors and forensics.
That's so exciting.
Yeah, we're doing some good things going into number three, year number three of the podcast.
Yeah.
Isn't it weird that when I started school, COVID happened?
That is weird.
I didn't get my bachelors until 2021.
Yeah.
Isn't that weird?
It is really weird.
Kind of like halted and then there was a lot of stress that happened and then it was
like effort.
I'm just going to take my time.
COVID's been four years now.
No.
Yeah, it's 2020.
So it's starting.
2020.
Yeah, that's well.
Yeah, because I guess the shutdown would have been March 2020.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so weird.
That's crazy.
Oh, strange.
Well, either way, we're happy to be back with you guys.
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Yeah.
Well, speaking of two episodes per week, this is, like you said, our mental breakdown.
And I'm really anxious to hear what you have for us.
I miss these.
This is kind of my birthday episode, because by the time this comes out, it'll be like
a few days before my birthday.
There we go.
I know.
Birthday girl.
Are you ready?
Yes, I am so ready.
Let's go.
Today, we're going to be talking about gaslighting.
Oh, okay.
Right?
I was really hoping you weren't going to say the topic that I already reached.
She doesn't really hate that.
Damn it.
Who was that? I think it was Kemper, right?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I was going to do that.
No.
Yes, gaslighting.
A very commonly used word nowadays.
Yeah.
For sure.
A lot of times, people don't, I mean, even sometimes people are like, what does that
even mean, you know, today?
Right.
So we're going to talk about it.
There we go.
Content warning.
Given the topic at hand, this episode may contain inflammatory content and verbiage.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.
Remember that you are mental health is very important to us and we love you.
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Bye.
So yes, gaslighting.
Okay.
Let's get into it.
Are you sure you know what that means?
I'm going to define it right now.
You don't know what that means, though.
Me?
Obviously, you don't know what that means.
I have no idea what.
Clearly.
Gaslighting.
Oh.
You're so good at that.
Oh, shut up.
Don't say that.
Gaslighting is defined by psychology today as, quote, an insidious form of manipulation
and psychological control.
Victims of gaslighting are deliberately and systematically fed false information that
leads them to question what they know to be true, often about themselves.
They may end up doubting their memory, their perception, and even their sanity.
Over time, a gaslighter's manipulations can grow more complex and potent, making it
increasingly difficult for the victim to see the truth, end quote.
So scary because like, I don't know about you, but like, I've definitely been gaslighting
for it and it worked and I was like, oh my god, I'm fucking crazy.
And you don't even know that it's happening while it's happening.
Yeah, you don't.
You have to like really know honestly about it to like catch it in the act.
According to an article by NewportInstitute.com, 10 signs you may be experiencing gaslighting
are that the perpetrator, number one, lies or denies something and refuses to admit
the lie even when you show them proof.
Oh, god, I hate that.
Oh, that's worst.
Like I'm showing you the receipts right here and you're still lying.
I'm like, no, no, no, that's wrong.
That wasn't me.
Someone else took my phone.
Oh, you're taking that out of context.
Yeah.
Two, insisting that an event or behavior you witnessed never happened and you're remembering
it wrong.
Oh, that's the worst.
Oh, all these are the worst.
You must just be crazy.
Yeah.
You're remembering wrong.
Exactly.
That is not what I said.
What do you just make stuff up?
You just made that up.
Oh.
I'm going to be disgusted this whole episode.
Three, spreading rumors and gossip about you or telling you that other people are gossiping
about you, which is interesting.
You're like, oh my god, I heard from someone said, blah, blah, blah.
Well, it's also like, if they tell you that someone else is talking about you, then they're
gaining your trust.
Yeah.
Because I'm telling you that what I heard and I defended you.
Yeah.
Does that mean nothing to you?
Ah.
You're changing the subject or refusing to listen when confronted about a lie or other
gas-slip behavior?
It's like plugging your ears.
I'm not even going to listen to you.
Changing the subject though, definitely been in a few relationships where it's like, I
am voicing my concern or opinion about something and this person just starts talking about
something else.
Or they try to go all the way around the topic so that you focus on something else other
than the original point that you were mad about.
Well, you did that, but you know what really upset me when you did this?
Yeah, of course.
Like, deflecting the point.
Like, I'm going to start a little fire over here so you don't see the burning building
on this side.
Five, telling you that you're overreacting when you called them out.
Ugh.
Yeah.
I'm going to do it every time I say it.
Number six, blame shifting in relationships, also known as maybe saying that if you acted
differently, they would treat you differently.
It's your faults that you're being treated this way.
Yeah, for sure.
Number seven, trying to smooth over things with loving words that don't match their actions.
It sounds a lot like narcissism as well.
Oh, yeah.
Just like narcissistic tendencies.
Like, I'm going to act like a complete jerk and then I'm going to like love bomb you.
Oh, for sure.
I love that you said that term because we will talk about that.
Number eight, twisting the story to minimize their abusive behavior.
Number nine, minimizing their hurtful behaviors or words by saying something like, it was
just a joke or you're way too sensitive.
Oh my gosh.
You're just hand in hand with the overreacting, right?
Yeah, I was just joking.
God, take a joke.
Why can't you take a joke?
Number 10, separating you from your friends and family who might recognize your gaslighting
abuse symptoms.
Okay.
So the term gaslighting actually comes from a thrilling play from 1938 titled Gaslight
that was eventually adapted into a movie in 1940 and then again in 1944 called Gaslight.
The film shows a couple, Paula and Gregory, who move into a home together and slowly but
surely Paula begins to believe that she's losing her mind.
Things become misplaced, notably a brooch, which she is berated by her partner for losing.
She begins to hear creaking upstairs and at some point she believes the house's gas lights
had begun to dim.
Paula is told by her partner Gregory that she's crazy and becoming unhinged.
The creaking was actually Gregory while he was walking around upstairs but tells her
that she's just hearing things.
Oh my God.
Gregory himself had been dimming the house lights and in the movie's climax the brooch
is actually found in Gregory's own desk drawer.
Ooh, I got the heave.
I got the heave.
And it sounds like such a, it was honestly probably one of the first psychological thriller
movies.
It kind of sounds like a good movie.
It kind of does.
Oh gosh.
When it happens in real life it's completely fucking messed up.
This movie totally sets the example that this type of behavior is cruel and sinister and
after all it was one of the first psychological thrillers.
This film is accredited for again giving that term gas lighting as we know today.
Gas lighting behavior knows no limits of the kind of relationships it can affect.
Whether it's a romantic relationship, friendship, parent-child relationship, and even in the
workplace gas lighting is the product of a power dynamic within the relationship stretching
out into race, gender, economic status, and a number of other social inequalities.
Yeah, and it's really scary because honestly like gas lighting in my opinion is not like
a skill.
Like I feel like anybody can do it.
Even if they don't know what they're doing at first they will get reinforced by that
behavior working and then they'll do it more often and they'll become better at it.
And that's really scary because like it's not like someone could do it without even
like being sinister or trying to be manipulative and then realize like oh that kind of worked
I'm gonna keep doing that.
But if anybody can do it and anybody can be a victim of it, which is really scary.
That is scary.
So you're saying like not everyone knows that they're being the gas lighter?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean in some situations at least on at first.
But I also will say like when it does happen and it happens really, really often and negatively
it's like extremely detrimental to the person that's being gas lit because it's almost
like it turns into I don't want to compare but similarly to maybe an abusive relationship,
physically abusive or maybe not physically but emotionally abusive or verbally abusive
you know that person starts to believe that they have no choice.
This is the only person that's on my side.
I can't leave because what they're telling me like I can obviously only trust them right
and that's what they alienate like the family and all that stuff too which is horrible.
It's true all of a sudden you look around yourself and you realize you're being isolated
and you don't know how you got there.
And it's like helped along the way.
Exactly.
It's even a scarier form of abuse because it's very hard to tell like especially when
you're not when you're in it you know you can't really tell what they just want the
best for me.
Right.
And I am crazy they're just trying to help me.
And any opposition is met with a lot of resistance so it's almost like well I don't
want to say anything because I don't want to ruffle feathers just for the sake of ruffling
feathers because I've been conditioned or convinced after the fact that I shouldn't
even brought it up.
Yeah.
Clearly I'm in the wrong.
Typically gas lighting and relationships tends to happen when two types of participants
meet.
One participant in the relationship tends to see the other person's perspective while
the other negates the other perspective entirely.
Which is interesting.
Yeah that's interesting.
One person is all perspective.
One person is like my perspective, your perspective, his perspective.
Yeah I'm really trying.
And one person's like oh none of those perspectives matter.
Isn't that ugh.
Yeah.
And they're actively trying to negate your perspective.
Yeah no that's pretty wild.
I don't know why this made me think of it but it reminds me of when mom says like you
know the term is there's two sides to every story but mom says no there's three sides
to every story.
That's what he says, she says and then there's what actually happens.
Because a lot of the time people aren't going to tell you the full truth.
It's true.
It's true something.
It's somewhere in the middle.
Yeah.
This dismissal can come in many forms such as calling the victims irrational when expressing
their feelings or insisting that they're wrong in their perceptions which we talked
about the perception.
For a term that we regularly use in our society today there are actually very little sociology
studies around the subject of gas lighting.
So psychology has decided to pick up the baton.
That's interesting because I feel like it should be sociology forward.
Right.
You would think so because it's about how people interact with each other.
And it can happen not just in relationships but anywhere.
Anywhere.
It can happen literally anywhere.
A deep dive analysis was done by William Klein, Sherri Lee, and Suzanne Wood tackling the
topic with a study of survivors of gaslighting in romantic relationships.
The participants were aged 18 to 69, 14 who identified as males, and 48 who identified
as females.
Damn, your research paper, look at you.
I know, right?
43 of those participants identified as heterosexual as well.
And the abject portion of the report states, quote,
Gaslighting occurs within relationships that are typified by a combination of affectionate
and abusive behaviors extended over the course of a relationship.
Gaslighting victimization was associated with a diminished sense of self, mistrust of others,
and on occasion, post-traumatic growth.
Those who recovered from gaslighting often emphasize the importance of separation from
the perpetrator, prioritization of healthier relationships, and engaging in meaningful
and re-embodying activities.
This study provides a basis for further research into gaslighting and recovering from gaslighting,
which will contribute to the prevention and treatment of this type of abuse, end quote.
Damn.
So the participants filled out a survey, and the findings were that 51% of the reported
perpetrators identified as males, 55 identified as heterosexual, and 48 were Caucasian.
25 were considered liberal, 12 conservative, and 17 as unaffiliated political orientations.
But perhaps most surprising that these cases were in relationships that lasted for at least
two years or more.
Really?
With 29 of the participants saying that their relationships lasted longer than that amount
of time.
That's interesting, but it brings up my point.
Like I said earlier, people may not know that they're doing it at first, and then they realize
that it works, and then they feel like they have the power and the relationship, they
keep going with it, and it gets easier and easier with them to manipulate their partner,
thus their partner staying with them for a longer period of time.
Right.
It's almost like the relationship becomes codependent at that point, because they've
now successfully probably isolated this person.
And then the victim has no other choice but to stay with that person.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's really interesting.
The study also concluded that there are four common behavioral patterns that existed in
gaslighting relationships.
Love bombing, isolating the survivor, the perpetrator's unpredictability, and cold
shouldering.
Cold shouldering?
Right, I know.
So like you said earlier, the first one is love bombing.
This does not include what someone considered to be the honeymoon phase of a relationship.
Love bombing occurs at any point of the relationship and is beyond what would be considered a typical
behavior in certain circumstances.
One participant of the study wrote, quote, the start of the relationship was intense
in terms of an emotional intimacy.
We shared many details of our emotions and traumas very early, some even on the first
date, end quote.
Another participant wrote, quote, at the beginning of the relationship, both parties were bending
over backwards for each other, end quote.
A third saying, quote, he said he loved me in three days.
It was a bit of a red flag, but I was so swept up by him, he was quite charming, end quote.
Are these all examples of love bombing or are these non-examples of love bombing?
These are what the participants wrote about their experiences of love bombing, yes.
And a fourth said, quote, he continued to shower me with expensive gifts like jewelry,
flowers, and dinners, end quote.
So again, it's kind of like love bombing.
These are there, I'm gonna, throughout this whole study talk, I'm gonna talk about all
these participants.
Yeah, and yeah.
For sure, I was thinking, I mean the way that that sounds to me, you know, being in a relationship,
thankfully that's not like this, I would think that that just sounds like a honeymoon
phase, but given that these are examples of love, or gaslighting relationships, it makes
sense that they would think like, oh, those were the first signs of the red flag.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that most of these occurrences are likely to happen when they're, again,
like there's a bit of discourse or maybe this person is new to the relationship and
because they're new to the relationship, they'd kind of want to lock this person in by being
overly affectionate or overly doting.
For sure, and then buying a bunch of stuff as well.
Love bombing's purpose is to convince their partner of forgiving them for their current
and future behavior and simultaneously making the survivors feel indebted to the perpetrator,
almost ensuring a lengthier relationship.
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Social isolation, which is number two, serves many purposes for the perpetrator of gaslighting.
The survivor has no other forms of social avenues, making the survivor dependent on
the perpetrator for social needs.
It also allows the perpetrator to abscond from accountability of their actions.
They can continue to re-victimize their survivor without the prying eyes of others.
The perpetrator also maintains control of the victim as they continue to manipulate them
into thinking that they're going mad, ensuring that the victim will not reach out to others
in an attempt to get help.
One participant stated, quote, he had a distaste for my friend's opinions and questioned my
friendships and quote, he made me dependent on him, talked poorly about me to all of my
friends until I was left to only rely on him.
He made me feel absolutely insane and quote, I'd cancel plans with friends constantly because
he would get jealous.
He did the same thing to my closest friends and family until no one reached out to me
anymore and quote, and then it's awful too because it's like on the other side of things
that you don't really know what's going on in that relationship and you're like, fuck
that I don't want to hand with so and so, you know what I mean?
But you don't realize that like your girlfriend or your sister or whatever is being manipulated.
Right.
And I feel like I've been in situations like that too before where I'm just like, oh,
well, like, I guess they don't want to hang out with me as much or whatever it is.
And like, well, her boyfriend said that they've just been really busy and so, oh, that's so
scary because you don't even know that you're being manipulated by the manipulator who's
manipulating your friend.
Yeah.
Oh, quote, about a week in he had isolated me from my friends and that same week he told
me that he loved me.
He told me horrible things that my friends were doing and saying about me behind my back.
About a week later, the only friend that he had allowed me to see stayed over at his house
and in his bed, he called me insane and unreasonable and quote, okay, right?
What the fuck?
Like he's like, oh, only she can come over.
But you know, like we're going to hang out a little later into the evening.
But you know what?
You're tired.
You should go to bed.
You should probably have work in the morning.
So the next one is number three, perpetrator unpredictability.
This consists of not knowing what your partner will do next.
This is a form of emotional control that aims to keep the victim confused and uncertain.
And concerned.
Yeah, absolutely.
One participant's example of this was, quote, argument started for seemingly no reason,
switching rapidly and becoming extremely affectionate and sexual the next, end quote.
Eww.
Another's experience being, quote, she stopped talking to me out of nowhere with no explanation
and after we spent very little into a very intimate night and day together, a couple
months into the relationship, she would continuously pop in and out of my life, expecting me to
be okay with this and serve her needs and quote.
Eww.
So yeah, it's essentially where they are.
I don't know if it's here, she or they, the participants saying that, you know, that
she again would, I guess give silent treatment, which is one that we'll see in a second, which
is cold shouldering.
But then having a very intimate time together and then just whenever she felt like she wanted
to come in and out of the relationship she did.
Yeah.
Eww.
Gosh.
So the last one is cold shouldering.
Cold shouldering is another form of manipulation that a manipulative abuse that coincides with
gaslighting.
It's a control over the survivor's emotions and expressiveness when the perpetrator ignores
or silences their victim.
They use the victim's need for space to process a situation as an opportunity to punish them.
Oh my God.
So it's like you and I are in a heated conversation, you're like, I really just need space and
you're like, oh okay, you want space?
I'll give it to you.
I'll fuck off forever.
Oh my God.
One participant said quote, he broke a promise that he made to me and I was upset about it
for the rest of the day.
I didn't really want to talk to him.
Then when I was finally ready to talk, he told me you already had your chance and proceeded
to ignore me and quote.
Eww.
That's so trickery.
I'm really like when you go to someone and you say, I'm upset that you did this and they're
like, well you did this.
It's like, I'm gonna make my, I'm gonna get mad now because you're mad.
I'm getting mad at you.
Yeah.
Because you're mad.
Because of something that I did.
After a fight with her partner, another participant said she saw quote, him glaring at me with
these eyes totally devoid of emotion except for hatred, almost shaking.
And then he gave me the silent treatment for a few hours.
He said that the worst thing I can do in those situations is to give him space but it's
honestly really hard to be around him and quote.
Wrong girl.
Right?
Well yeah.
These are, these are former victims of gaslighting.
Gaslighters remind their victims that they are quote unquote crazy, incompetent and overly
emotional.
The study states quote, insults pertaining to survivors physical appearance, virtues
and sexual activity may not obviously be challenges to their epistemic abilities but if those
survivors experience themselves as attractive, unselfish and chast, then the accusations
of being ugly, selfish and slutty directly challenges the survivor's self-knowledge
and therefore their sense of reality.
End quote.
Like you might consider yourself to be a very reasonable person.
You might consider yourself to be a, at least an attractive person, a good person, a nice
person and the perpetrator of gaslighting's entire purpose is to convince you otherwise.
Otherwise.
And we, I mean you tell somebody something for so long they're gonna start to believe
it to be true especially when they have no other outside influence to tell them other
words.
Right.
Exactly.
Perpetrators argue over timelines or the tone or words in which they are used inside
the argument.
Maybe even blame victims of being overly critical of them.
Like you're so mean to me.
You know you're over there and you're, you know you're spelling me on the gaslighter,
that's rude.
Why would you say that about me?
Ugh.
It's just making me angry.
You're overly critical.
They turn the tables on their victims by claiming that the survivor is the problem and often
take perceived innocent behavior as a reason for their behavior to turn.
This is often to distract the survivor from the real issue, which is their issue.
Yeah.
Have you ever been in a situation where you brought up something that bothered you and
by the end of the conversation you ended up apologizing to them?
Yes.
100%.
Often survivors would be blamed for the most minute things.
One wrote, quote, everything was my fault, the microwave was broken, and it was my fault.
Jesus.
According to the study, perpetrators blame survivors for their own actions to try to
avoid accountability.
Quote, anytime he had done something that was wrong or disrespectful, that would also
be my fault.
And quote, another participating participant stating, quote, she would make it out to be
on me for her bad behavior.
And yet another one saying, quote, he told me that it was my fault that he cheated on
me because I went on a work trip for six weeks.
End quote.
Oh, you're never around.
Who's supposed to love me?
She's probably paying for everything as well.
Oh yeah, probably.
One of the biggest motivators for gaslighting is that your partner would maybe be trying
to escape responsibility or accountability.
Often these types of gaslighters are in denial about their own behavior.
We see this in one participant's story, quote, my wife had an affair.
I felt that something was off as she wanted nothing more to do with me.
And I kept questioning what was wrong.
She kept telling me that I was just being paranoid, crazy, and anxious and that everything
was okay.
End quote.
Well, everything wasn't okay.
Clearly not.
You're just crazy.
You're nuts.
Why would I do that to you?
Seriously, you really think that I would do that to you?
Those are nudes of me.
Brother said, quote, I would ask for more help with our kids and I'd be met with anger
because he felt working for money and providing were sufficient.
I was told I was insane, unorganized, and I didn't take my job as a mom seriously enough
since I needed help.
Typically led to name calling and being told that we needed to switch places, end quote.
Because he would have been so great with the children.
Why don't you go make the money?
Why don't you go?
Why don't you make more money?
Well, I'll be a straight home dad.
Why don't you stay home dad?
I'm home when everything's a wreck.
Staying home dads are amazing.
I won't go for a bashing stay at home dads.
I mean, yeah, that's stressful.
Yeah, for sure.
Another participant stated, quote, the gaslighting was done basically any time I expressed something
that I was unhappy about or when I wanted more out of his participation around the
house or with our children.
I was always quote crazy and imagining things, end quote.
Any time that he had done something that was wrong or disrespectful, it would be my fault.
Never did he take accountability for his actions or his words.
He would always put the blame on me and basically said that I imagined what was happening and
that I was crazy, end quote.
Control is the second most common motivation for gaslighting behavior, quote, when I didn't
behave, say what he wanted me to, when he wanted me to act a certain way, or when he
disliked what came out of my mouth or what I did, end quote.
The participant stated that her partner tried to sabotage her attempts to get into medical
school by spending quote months telling me how I shouldn't pick this career path for
multiple reasons, starting with money, then how I'm not cut out or smart enough, end quote.
He then went on quote, picking fights with me the whole way while I tried to study, accusing
me of bringing up medical scenarios that were similar to his family history, telling me that
I was insensitive and unemphathtetic.
For the test, he brought up career paths that I was better suited for, end quote.
So not only is that affecting that person, but it's affecting every other person in their
lives that she could have helped because if she got that medical degree and this mother
booker is too selfish to let someone be great.
So he had to pull her down to the point where I don't know if she went or not, but clearly
not in a position to be like super excited about med school after you're being told all
that stuff.
I was in an abusive relationship for many, many years and I attempted to go to college
for one whole semester and instead of being happy for me and supportive for me, he would
pick fights in the middle of the night and I'd be too tired to go to school.
Yeah, that was on purpose.
Oh yeah, for sure.
And I failed that semester and I was 19 years old at the time and I waited to go back to
school until I was 32 years old.
And it's just one of those things that stays with you your whole life.
Yeah, for sure.
And thankfully this participant got out of that relationship.
Yeah, but it's a very real thing that happens and you don't even realize it's happening
until it's, you know, that's something that he had in him.
He didn't want me to be better.
Because if I stayed low to the ground, he would always be above me, he could always
control me.
Yeah, that's disgusting.
Idiot.
Fuck you.
Quote, he would get very sad about himself to the point to where I would feel that it
was no longer about my issue but making him feel better.
He wouldn't like me to talk about our issues to my friends and he would guilt me if I wrote
in my journal negatively about him.
Oh my god, ew.
He would do the same behaviors over and over, apologize, never change, and then get upset
every time I brought it up.
Eventually I just decided to stop bringing up issues because I was tired of making him
feel better and making myself sadder.
Quote, oh my god, that's awesome.
She wasn't making him feel better and she wasn't making herself feel worse.
He was manipulating her.
And also, like, not letting her talk to her friends about their issues, it's because
he doesn't want her friends to be like, what the fuck, he's wrong.
Leave his ass.
Exactly, like what the hell?
The effects on survivors of gaslighting and relationships have a wide range.
One may begin to feel a diminished sense of self resulting in loneliness and depression.
You may feel guarded and have a hard time trusting others, especially if you've left
the relationship and tried to start new ones.
Newportinstitute.com suggests that you may be experiencing the effects of gaslighting
if you're having trouble making even simple decisions, you're making excuses for your
partner's behavior to family members or friends, you're constantly second guessing yourself,
you're blaming yourself for the way that another person treats you, you're trying
to convince yourself that the behavior isn't really that bad, you're walking on eggshells
around the other person, you're believing that you are too sensitive, you're questioning
your own feelings, judgments, and observations, you're feeling lonely and trapped, you're
doubting your own memory and sanity, you're staying silent rather than speaking up about
what you believe, you're being on edge and feeling threatened all the time, you're starting
to believe what the gaslighter is telling you about yourself, that you're crazy or
stupid, you're thinking that you can't do anything right and feeling disappointed in
who you've become, you're spending a lot of time apologizing for your actions.
That's intense.
That's a lot, that is a very real psychological effect that that has on someone.
No, that's really intense.
I was thinking about this while you were talking about it just in general, we throw around
the word gaslighting so loosely, like, oh my ADHD, my OCD, something like that, I even
heard it at work the other day, people will do that like I did earlier as a joke, like
oh, I'm just gaslighting or whatever, and it's not, I mean, it's really serious in these
particular scenarios, not that you can't have harmless back and forth conversation with
your friends or whatever, but in situations like this, it can be extremely diminishing
to someone's whole psyche, and again, like you said, ruin someone's whole future, like
path, because of just how skewed the relationship can be and how the mindset can be.
I agree, and much like I stated at the beginning of this episode, this type of power dynamic
can happen anywhere.
Yeah.
This is not, you know, the study of course was within couples, within romantic relationships,
but again, it can happen parent-child, it can happen, you know, with a boss, it can happen
between sisters, I mean, it can happen at any time, and you're so right, like people realize
that it works once, and then somewhere along the way, they just don't grow out of it, they
don't stop it, or they know that they can easily manipulate or control someone else,
and they continue to do so.
Yeah, for sure.
Recovery can also come in many forms.
Spending time with others and talking to friends and family about your situation can
be widely beneficial.
For some, getting back into physical activities or creative activities may be an outlet.
Of course, seek professional help if you need it.
Allow yourself to grieve your relationship in a healthy way.
However, it is always almost recommended to disconnect completely from your abuser.
Absolutely.
Furthermore, recovery is about trusting yourself again.
Remember this is something that was done to you and not of your doing, no matter how
responsible your abuser made you feel.
Allow yourself to trust yourself again, trust your knowledge again, trust your gut and experiences
again.
You may once again remind yourself that you are capable of making good, safe, and sound
decisions for yourself.
So that was absolutely one of the hardest parts for me.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Was being able to trust myself and like know that I'm completely capable of making decisions
for myself and then putting them into action.
Yeah.
So please not going to tell me how to do something all of the time.
Or tell you not to do something that you want to do.
Although not every relationship of this nature will result in physical violence, gaslighting
is still a form of abuse and as such may be a gateway to physical abuse over time.
If you are someone you know is in a domestic abuse situation, you can reach out to the
National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Yeah, absolutely.
And of course, if you are in crisis, 9-1-1 first thing.
Of course, if it's an emergency for sure.
I just want to give a special thanks to William Klein, Sherri Lee, and Suzanne Ward for their
studies on this topic.
And we will also leave a link in the show notes so that you can access the great details
of their analysis because there's so much more to it.
Oh yeah, but it's a huge article.
It's huge.
Nice.
Well, that was a good topic.
I didn't think to do that one ever and I'm glad that you brought it.
I also have to shout out Dreading because I don't remember what episode.
I think it was the Ezra McCandless episode when they were talking about gaslighting and
I was like, what a cool topic for like a whole episode.
Yeah, for sure.
And if you all don't follow Dreading, please follow Dreading.
There are two brothers that do it.
Oh, okay.
Although one's the voice.
Got it.
But oh my gosh, it's so fun to listen to them.
They just did this whole thing on Chris Watts.
Oh my gosh, stop.
Well, thank you guys for joining us for another mental breakdown.
Yeah.
So, if you get your ticket to the True Crime and Paranoa podcast festival that's happening
in Denver this July, the 12th and the 14th.
It's also my birthday, weekend.
So you guys, you can see us.
We have some really great merch and we've been like stockpiling our merch to make sure
that it's available for you guys when it comes July.
Yeah.
But anything else?
No, I think that's it.
Okay.
Well, we will see you guys on Thursday with another case and next Monday with another
mental breakdown.
Yeah.
Love you.
Bye.
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