Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koel and I'm Kenna.
How's it going? It's going kind of great.
Great.
I cannot wait for this episode.
Oh my god.
Is it going to be good?
I think so.
I mean, anything I write is good.
Just the best.
Any new news?
I don't think so. We've gotten a lot of really great correspondence.
Just want to give another shout out to our friend, Adrienne.
She messaged us back at everything and we definitely had a great success with that episode that we put out on Ed Kemper.
And she definitely was gracious and awesome to respond to us.
So that was really cool.
And hopefully we can do something like that in the future.
I think so too.
I think it was really rewarding to hear someone, you know, because we're not licensed.
So we don't diagnose on here, but it is really awesome to listen to licensed professionals' opinion on a big case like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's really cool.
But yeah, everything's going good.
I just still have my amestes, prerigrim, and work, and the holiday is coming up.
So it's just all, but I think it's going good.
Yeah.
Just remember to, you know, take care of yourself.
Everybody out there.
Yeah, absolutely.
Continue to take care of your mental health.
The holidays can be hard for some people.
So if you need that extra help or extra serotonin boost around that time, don't feel bad for doing that for yourself.
Yeah.
And before we get started, do you want to give everyone our handles?
Sure.
You can find us on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer other than X, which is
at Killer Diagnosis.
We have a Patreon that is also at Killer, sorry, Diagnosing a Killer.
We got a Patreon out there.
We also have merchy merch items that are on our link tree on our Instagram.
By the way, if anybody ordered two Kozies, I am the person that didn't leave a space for your contact info.
So we have no idea who you are.
So you don't know who you are.
Reach out to us if you were the one that just filled out two Kozies black with red lettering or white lettering, I guess it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, check out our Kozies and I'm sure if you guys haven't seen the Instagram post you have a bit on social media.
We are now doing 100% merch ourselves.
We decided to remain self-sufficient like we always strive to be and cut out the third party merch people.
So we are going to continue to do those merch items ourselves.
So we do have just one design right now that's out for the shirt and the Kozie, but we have plenty in the works and we will be posting videos and pictures about those soon.
Yeah, absolutely. The third party supplier that we were going through, they actually didn't do front and back on our shirts.
So it was like, now we have the availability to do front and back on our t-shirts.
So if you have a suggestion, please let us know.
Yeah, for sure. And everyone that has already purchased some of that merch, thank you very much.
And send us pictures of you guys wearing your merch so we can post it on the insti.
Yeah, or Kozies.
Yes.
Are you ready?
I don't know. Yes, go ahead.
I feel like you knew who I was doing.
I mean, I said, I told you I would never, ever cover this case.
And I've actually told listeners I will never cover this case.
I seriously don't think I know who you're doing.
My pretty sure it involves kids now that you're saying that.
Right. But I, yeah.
I still don't, I don't know.
Today we are gonna, oh my God, I would lose my shit. Hold on.
Today we're gonna talk about Chris Watts.
Ew, why?
I know, I remember we agreed a long time ago to never cover it.
Just give it a chance. Just give it a chance.
I'll give it a chance.
But I'm telling you, he like enjoys when people write about him.
Like he's like, he's so narcissistic.
He's like, yeah, they did an episode on me.
Would it make you feel any better that because of a suit against,
I guess we can talk about at the end, but essentially he owes
Shadam's family $6 million, which will absolutely ensure that he will never profit off of him, what he did.
No, I get that. And that's totally, I mean, that's obviously like it should be a thing, but.
But you don't think that people that kill other people want people to talk about them?
I'm sure they do, but he's been like vocal about him.
Especially him because he's a fucking narcissist.
Anyway, yeah, just go ahead.
I mean, we're already here.
We're already here.
Let's do it.
Write the whole episode down.
Yeah, exactly.
Bye, bye.
Content warning.
This episode contains descriptions of severe depression, stressors between family members,
drugging, and familicide.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to listen to another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health comes first and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Christopher Lee Watts was born May 6, 1985, in a small community just north of Fayetteville, North Carolina,
to his parents, Cindy and Ronnie Watts.
He was the younger child of two with one older sister named Jamie.
Chris was described as a quiet type person and didn't give the family much trouble growing up.
So there wasn't a lot of really red flags.
He seemed like a normal kid and about the only thing that Chris really seemed to have an immense passion for at a young age was race cars.
Jamie, Chris's sister, however, recalls it by high school.
Her brother, whom she was really close to, seemed to drift away from the connection the two once shared.
Chris attended Pine Forest High School and gravitated towards automotive class, naturally.
Joe Doody, who was a former teacher of Chris, said about him at this time, quote,
he was one of the smartest students I ever had.
The guy had a photographic memory, end quote.
Another quote, his biggest passion outside of automotive was NASCAR.
He knew what chapter and verse and everything you could possibly ask about NASCAR, he knew.
In fact, I told him before he graduated, I said to Chris,
if I ever had a student who was going to be tremendously successful, it's you, end quote.
Yikes.
So he wanted to work his way up to eventually be a NASCAR crew chief.
That's what he wanted to do.
Chris was described as a quiet and reserved type.
And he was the kind of guy that all the girls had a crush on.
This is also somewhat odd, as although Chris was one of the more popular kids,
he never really seemed to connect in others in a way that you would expect of a young man with that kind of popularity status.
Joe went on to say, quote, often I wondered why he was so withdrawn.
He was very clean cut, very respectful, and very smart, end quote.
After graduation, Chris attended the University of Miami, where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering.
Dang.
Soon after graduating around 2007, Chris would move back to Fayetteville area.
And by this time, Chris was looking to date and began to ask friends to set him up
or be on the lookout for a potential partner to share his life with.
Shanann Catherine Ruschuk was born January 10th, 1984, twinning.
Strong-headed Capricorn.
Her parents were Frank and Sandra.
I think it's Ruchuk.
It's spelled R-Z-U-C-E-K.
Ruchuk.
The family lived in New Jersey when Shanann was born and grew up in a financially lacking family,
although the family grew up in kind of lower middle class.
Eventually, Shanann had a brother named Frank, or Frankie Jr., as he was lovingly called.
The family would eventually move to Southern Pines, North Carolina, which is about an hour away from Fayetteville, where Chris was living.
Shanann said when she was growing up, she felt pretty insecure about herself.
She did just okay in high school, but certainly didn't stand out socially in her high school of pinecrest,
not to be confused with Chris's who was pine forest, she was pinecrest.
High school.
I know it's, I just wanted to put that out there, I did not make a mistake, I promise.
I checked like about 20 times, too.
Shanann said about this time, quote,
I was never the smartest kid on the block.
I worked my tail off to fight through school.
I was the one staying up until 2 a.m. in the morning studying and still struggling.
I'm a horrible test taker.
A horrible test taker.
I could know all the answers, but put that test in front of me and I bomb it, or I struggle, and I've always struggled through school.
I think insecurities played a role in my everything, but what was different about me was that I never give up, end quote long.
Well, that, I mean, we see it a lot and maybe, I don't want to say we see it a lot, but I've heard stories a lot where it has been personally admitted that
people tend to gravitate towards narcissists if they have a lot of insecurities.
Because they don't have to make the decisions for themselves.
They don't have to speak up if they don't want to, you know, things like that.
And it's just easier to just go along with this domineering personality.
That is so interesting that you said that because...
Because I'm just always on top of it with these things.
After graduating high school, Shanann would meet a man by the name of Leonard King.
The two would quickly marry, and I mean very quickly.
This would have been around 2002, 2003, according to Leonard.
And this would have made Shanann either still in high school when they met, or shortly after she left high school.
Yikes.
Yeah.
Oh, actually, Leonard met Shanann while she was in high school.
And he said that although reserved, she seemed to get along with most anyone.
The two were married for several years, but ultimately after trying a few counseling sessions at Leonard's request, the two separated in 2007 or 2008.
Okay.
He said that oftentimes when in these counseling sessions, Shanann seemed to shut down or cut herself off the conversation if it became too much.
That's that insecurity.
Eventually the couple were sleeping in separate rooms, and Shanann said about the marriage that she often felt depressed and wanted more from life.
She said about this time, quote,
I was in a place for a long time where I felt very insecure.
I was married, and I got a divorce, and it took a lot from me.
It took my confidence, it literally took everything, and quote, this is sad.
The two never had any children, which may be due to Shanann being told at a certain point that she actually couldn't conceive children.
Really?
After the divorce, Shanann said that she struggled to pick herself back up again.
She said, quote, I remember coming out feeling the weakest I've ever felt in my life.
Like, I was no good.
Like, I wasn't enough.
My insecurities got deeper, stronger, and I felt like I was not worthy of anything, and quote.
It's a horrible feeling.
Yeah, absolutely.
Shanann credits good friends around her who helped strengthen her confidence and soon began setting her sights on becoming more self-sufficient.
Again, her family was not hugely affluent, so hard work was something that Shanann had kind of been exposed to at a young age,
and this was no different in her attitude towards work.
She dedicated herself to exploring who she was as a person,
and remained single for several years in an effort to focus on what was important to her,
and her growing into an empowered young woman.
Shanann had made a goal to save enough money to buy her own house by the age of 25,
which she was able to accomplish.
This was a hugely rewarding moment for Shanann.
Throughout this time, Shanann said that she gradually left behind some former friends,
more so growing apart from them,
as she, the dedicated Shanann, was constantly working towards her goal to buy her house,
and her friends were continuing to participate in just early 20-year-old stuff.
She said, quote, when you surround yourself with people who are just negative and not happy with life,
which I get, I've been there, I've done that,
but I'm choosing to, even on my worst days, not let negativity bring me down, end quote.
Dang, that's a strong woman.
I watched all of her videos, most all of her videos.
Shanann around this time began experiencing some medical symptoms.
She seemed tired all the time, and she was experiencing hair loss at an alarming rate.
The young lady who had been coming into her own confidence began to feel worn down after seemingly the smallest chores.
During this difficult period, Shanann had received a friend's suggestion by a girlfriend of hers on social media,
but not really interested in dating at the time Shanann declined this friend's suggestion.
After all, she's going through this very, very stressful time.
She lost more friends who were tough on Shanann.
After all, she looked fine on the outside, but was actually really suffering medically on the inside.
Like her friend, she literally said in a video that people were like,
oh, you're fine, don't you just need to get more rest, you know, stuff like that.
What was she struggling with?
Shanann knew that something was wrong, and after two months of beginning to see doctors,
Shanann would be diagnosed with lupus.
Oh, shit.
According to the Mayo Clinic, lupus is a disease that occurs when your body's immune system
tacks your own tissues and organs, or commonly known as an autoimmune disease.
Inflammation caused by lupus can affect many different body systems, including your joints,
skin, kidneys, blood cells, brain, heart, and lungs.
Lupus can be difficult to diagnose because it signs and symptoms often mimic those of other ailments,
which may be a reason why her friends were like, oh, it's just this, get more rest, or, you know,
oh, it's probably because you worked out the other day, or...
And that's so hard, because like you and me personally know somebody with lupus,
and it is just very clear how hard it's been for them, you know?
Shanann says this is the darkest time of her life.
She ended up quitting her job after nine years of working there,
as her employer at the time was unwilling to work around the understanding of Shanann's condition.
Like, they're like, oh, you call out too much.
I was like, girl, has lupus.
Like, well, I also don't have to disclose to you my medical right reasonings.
All I have to do is give you a note that says I have medical, something serious, whatever, diagnosed.
Feeling low, Shanann turned to the internet to connect with others about her diagnosis,
which she did ultimately find a community that was supportive, as well as being able to make some friends online.
One day, Shanann gets a friend request from the same man that her previous friend had suggested on social media.
The friend request was from Chris Watts.
Shanann said that she was grateful that Chris came into her life when he did,
as she was at her worst and felt like if he was going to be around for a long time, at least he was being introduced to the reality of her situation.
Yeah.
She said that she would often give him outs throughout their relationship and sometimes would push him away
in an attempt to see how committed Chris was to her and her situation, which really isn't a healthy thing to do.
It's not at all, but the thing is, I'm trying, I'm very hard as not to be super biased,
because I want to listen to the story with an open mind.
But the thing is, narcissists are going to do everything they can to get your trust,
even if it means staying when you do things like that, when you say,
oh, you have an out, just leave.
No, I'm committed.
And then you see my commitment and then that makes you work twice as hard too.
Exactly.
Yeah.
For sure.
She said Chris never left, that he would fight harder for her,
and then although, despite her best efforts, he maintained his commitment to her.
I'm surprised that he didn't find someone else to date between the time that her friend suggested
she'd meet him and then the reconnection.
He might have been.
This was over the course of two months.
He might have been.
I thought it was longer than that.
No, it was, yeah, she had essentially, from my understanding, had around this time that suggested baby friends,
but she had said, no, I'm not, I don't know what's going on with me medically.
Got it.
You know, all this stuff.
And then when she found out after the diagnosis is when she started getting online more.
Chris's family have seemed not to care for Shanann from the beginning,
since she was previously married and his parents seemed to distrust her with their son.
Shanann was, yeah, right, yeah.
Jesus.
Shanann was accused by Chris's parents of being controlling and bossy towards Chris,
and overall the feeling shared between Shanann and Chris's parents was full of tension.
Can you say projections?
Straight up.
Cindy Watts said in an NBC interview, quote,
she said a lot of things about Chris in front of me that I didn't like.
Like, this isn't the kind of person I would date, or he doesn't know how to do this.
He doesn't know how to do that.
It was just on and on and on and I just had a bad feeling and quote.
Okay, well, I kind of get kind of get that.
What was the Capricorn?
Like, I'm just going to be bossy.
Probably fake news, but I kind of get that.
Like, I would never say to Casey's mom, like,
oh, he can't do this right, or he can't do that.
I mean, maybe it would, because we have that kind of relationship, but not in the beginning.
Like, not in the beginning at all, or telling him, telling her that he doesn't meet the bill for, you know, the person I want to date.
I don't know if this is necessarily right at the beginning, but that's what Cindy said in Ratcha's fact.
I would maybe make comments like, oh, he doesn't do this or doesn't do that, but I would never say.
He doesn't know how to do this.
He's not the kind of person that I would date.
What kind of son did you raise?
Yeah, no, no way.
He can't do this, can't do this.
These thoughts are not so far fetched.
Later, we see in Shanann's live stream videos that she often mentions that she was the dominating figure of the relationship.
She said quote, I've always had more patience for children than I do adults, and I guess that also goes for my husband and quote.
I mean, he's a child.
He's a child.
He threw a big old tantrum.
Although many people who love Shanann would say that although she was the bossy type, her intention always came from a place of motivation and encouragement.
It sounds like you.
Right?
Just do better.
Just do better than whatever you yell at.
Shanann's my spirit person, I feel.
It was like so lovely listening to her videos.
It sounded like talking to a friend.
It was so sweet.
So yeah, she simply just wanted the best for the people around her.
Despite the tension between Shanann and Chris's family, the couple would seem great together and always pretty much blissful and quiet for two straight years, and the couple would be married in a beautiful wedding in 2012.
Frank Ruchak said in his speech that the two of them looked happy together and that he couldn't have picked a better man for his daughter, to which Frankie Jr. also agreed in his speech.
Okay.
Neither Chris's parents nor his sister would show up to the wedding.
I know.
Scandaloso.
Scandaloso?
What?
I mean, like, come on.
That's fucked up.
It's not like he was previously married.
Well, here's the thing.
As long as someone's partner is not abusive, why are you trying so hard to, like, not accept?
Like, do you think it was like a mommy, like, it's a baby boy syndrome?
He's the only man for me and now this woman is taking him away from me.
Absolutely.
You know that I, like, a lot of my previous relationships were like that.
No.
Where the mom didn't like me.
And it's like, okay, I just, I understand that I might be a difficult person, maybe a standoffish person, but I certainly don't feel, this is another thing I'm going to raise right now, okay?
The finger in the air.
Through my finger in the air.
Did you know?
No.
I've told Cliff this.
I said, I, in the past have been accused of being aggressive or bossy or controlled, not controlling maybe, but those, those negative things, right?
I feel like I am a woman that chooses to speak when I fucking want to.
Yeah.
And I feel like-
Every person should be able to do.
I've been, that I, and many other women probably have the same experience, like it certainly cannot be the only one, but that just feeling like I shouldn't speak up, even in a way that I deem like I want to, is inappropriate for a woman.
And that's, and I just don't, I don't like that.
No, I don't like that either.
In listening to, and exactly like what I said, Shanann's family and friends know where her intentions are.
She's not intentionally being terrible.
She's not intentionally putting someone down.
She's doing it in a motivational way.
And she does it the best way that she knows how.
Because look at her.
She's getting fucking results by being the way that she is.
Yeah, well also it's like-
Buying the house and having the husband and, I mean, she's doing those things and she's feeling fulfilled by the same things that she's been doing.
Excuse me.
So, you know, it's like, why should I have to diminish what I'm doing or my voice because you're uncomfortable about the way I present myself?
Because people are insecure.
That's exactly what it is.
And it's funny that we're saying, because she was saying that she struggled with insecurity for a while,
but people are feeling insecure at her presence clearly, even down to the Watts parents.
Right.
You know, they probably never even took the time to call her out on what she was saying or question her and say,
why do you say that about him or blah blah blah?
They just kind of let her do her thing and then they made a decision in their mind that they didn't like her.
Yeah, exactly.
And we've all been there.
I've fucking done that before.
You know, I don't say anything to someone, but I don't like the way that they act and I just make the decision that they're a bad person.
And I am guilty of that.
I've learned from it.
I've tried not to do that, but it's very understandable that that can happen.
But also it's like, not going to the wedding?
Like that's, that's ridiculous.
Like I wouldn't do that.
That you're drawing online.
She's not drawing the line.
She's not part of my family.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's ridiculous.
It is.
But yes, needless to say, I think that anyway, we've all had experiences there.
We've had experiences there where a son's mother did not like us because nobody's going to be good enough for us.
Yeah.
Or them, you know, nobody's going to be good enough for them.
Nobody's going to be good enough for her.
Well, I'm anxious to, to hear how his mom felt about this in the end of the story.
Yeah.
Chris would experience a profound sense of loss after the wedding and went through a very deep depression after they got married.
Sense of loss from his parents?
Yes.
Because his parents and sister did not attend and seemingly wanted nothing to do with their relationship.
And do you think that they told him that at all before they got married?
I'm sure they might have told him that.
That he wasn't, that they weren't showing them?
No, that he, they didn't approve.
Oh yeah.
I mean, they had always kind of had a bit of tension, but it was almost like them not coming to the wedding was like,
oh, we don't really give a shit about what you're doing in your life.
Yeah.
So it's, I can imagine a conversation, Shanann being with Chris and being like, well, clearly your parents didn't even give a shit to like fucking show up to the wedding.
Yeah.
So, you know, it just creates more tension.
Sorry, I would.
Just creates more.
And then for him to feel like, and again, you told me you were going to give me the benefit of the doubt in this episode.
I'm trying.
For him to feel stuck in the middle of that, to be like, I want a connection with my family and I want them to be able to love my wife the way that I love my life.
No, that's hard for sure.
That's yeah.
During this depression, Chris began to not take care of himself like he had been at the beginning of Shanann and his relationship.
He actually began to gain a lot of weight due to a lack of a healthy lifestyle.
I sneezed.
Sorry.
You sneezed?
I sneezed very quietly and my whole chair shook.
At his highest weight, he actually weighed about 250, which would be considered obese at his height of 511.
Yeah, I was going to say how tall is he.
Deeply.
Despite all of this, Chris was excelling in his career and with a strained relationship with his family, considered moving him and his wife to Colorado after being offered a new position with the Anadarko Petroleum Company.
Okay.
Shanann was able to find work at a call center that worked with a children's hospital.
I think it was an Aurora.
Within three to four months of the move, something that happened that would change the course of their lives forever.
Who saw it coming, folks?
If you're a loyal listener, then you know that she says that almost every episode.
So true.
So Shanann actually found out that she was pregnant.
Oh.
This was a shock as the couple believed that they could not conceive, especially just because she was told that in her lupus.
Yeah.
They would name their daughter Bella Marie Watts and she would be born in Frederick, Colorado on December 17th, 2013.
Around this time, the family had purchased a five bedroom home as they intended to expand their family over the years to come.
This, however, would put more strain on Chris's relationship with his family as they believed that this was all Shanann's doing, the moving and the baby.
Yeah, she did that.
She did that on purpose.
Yeah.
To like lock him down.
Such a catch.
Just glad about not being able to get pregnant.
She did that.
She just did that so that, yeah, for sure.
They probably did think that.
So of course, yeah, furthermore, they have a baby and so in their minds, they're never getting their son back.
They're like, oh, he just was stolen to Colorado.
How dare he have a family of his own.
And a successful career.
Of course, Shanann missed her family and friends too, but Shanann had this to say about the decision.
Colorado makes me feel like it's drama free. It's a drama free life. Colorado is just amazing. Absolutely amazing.
But that's how I feel. I feel at peace here in Colorado.
And everyone wonders why we moved to Colorado because I do. I feel at peace here.
I don't know how to explain it and I don't know how to describe it.
I always feel at peace in Colorado.
It's really nice.
I like Colorado.
I'm excited to go to Dickey, Colorado.
I cannot wait to go to Denver.
Everyone come see us in Denver next July. It's the next podcast festival.
It's the 12th through the 14th and it's also kind of his birthday that we get in.
So we're going to be in Denver at the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival.
2.0.
I was thinking about it today. Can you believe it's been three months since we went?
No.
It's fucking wild.
That is bizarre.
July in Denver is going to be really pretty.
It's beautiful. It's fucking hot though.
Back to the story.
The couple would continue to work and live their Colorado dream.
And by 2015, the couple would be expecting their second daughter Celeste Catherine Waps.
Shanann's dedication to her children would take precedence over everything.
Again, as she thought that she could not have children.
And before Cece was born, Shanann was making steps to become a stay-at-home mom.
Compounding this, the family found that Bella had food sensitivities and allergies.
So I can imagine that a parent wanting to be around their kids all the time, also to ensure what they eat isn't going to harm them.
I think there were several things, but definitely one of the main ones was peanuts.
That's scary.
Yeah, peanut allergies are no fucking joke.
No, not a joke.
Peanut allergies and like bee allergies.
Those are like awful. They're not just like a little cough cough.
I have a friend that's like deathly allergic to tree nuts and every time we talk shit, I'm like,
oh, you took a lot of shit for a guy that could be killed by a fucking pecan.
Eat one of these fucking cookies.
A loud nut.
A pan nut.
Say, what is his name?
Stop name it.
Hollampeppa, you stop naming nuts.
I don't know what that is.
Best in show.
I don't know what that is.
Oh my gosh.
I was going to say I don't know what that is.
I don't know what that is.
I was like, best Christopher, guess who we ever...fight me.
So Shanann would ultimately quit her job.
And although this was likely not okay with Chris, he certainly didn't voice any objections about the change of household income.
Of course not.
Shanann would come to a full understanding of the financial situation that the family was facing when the Watts were forced to file for bankruptcy in 2015, June 2015.
Okay.
From biography.com, quote, with a combined income of $90,000 in 2014, in addition to credit card debt, student loans, and medical bills,
the couple filed for bankruptcy in June 2015, stating that their $3,000 mortgage and $600 car payments took up most of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.
Additionally, their homeowners association sued them for unpaid HOA fees, end quote.
So clearly this wasn't working out here.
Yeah.
Additionally, it was reported that the couple still owed about 70K on the home loan.
Ah.
Just one month later, they would welcome their second child, Cece, or Celeste.
The family tried to put their financial woes behind them, and Shanann, the woman of course who wants it all because she's just like me.
She wants it all.
She began working at home through a multi-level marketing company specifically working with a product called Thrive from a company called Level.
This Thrive is kind of like a supplement and vitamin protein mix or something like that.
Through this opportunity, Shanann found a great group of people who were like-minded in their pursuit of becoming self-sufficient.
Nicole Atkinson was another participant of this Thrive group, and she and Shanann quickly became friends.
Shanann would begin to go live on social media in order to push products and let people into her personal life.
She would often tell stories of how she and Chris met, their struggles, and their successes.
Sometimes she would have the girls cooking in the kitchen with her, getting ready for the holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas,
and so on and so forth, playing with the dogs.
She would also document her and eventually Chris' health journey.
Chris began to work out, eat better, and would ultimately lose 75 pounds weighing in at, I think, 175-ish.
On one occasion, Shanann expressed in a video, quote,
My husband, who was very shy and bashful, he's an introvert. He did whatever I told him to do. My husband is very pleasing, so I spoke to him and I told him to try some of the Thrive products, and he did. No questions asked. He just took it.
He did what I told him because he's all like, happy wife, happy life kind of a thing, end quote.
I don't like that quote. I don't think it's a good quote, happy wife, happy life. I don't think I've ever liked that. I feel like that's very, I don't know, like I feel like in a relationship there should be a partnership.
And I get what she's saying. She's saying like he's that way, but he enjoys it, is what she's saying, even though he probably might not.
But Chris is introverted. He doesn't speak up for himself. He doesn't have balls. And I think maybe that's kind of what it is, is like maybe Cindy Watts is that way, like very domineering over Chris.
And that's why Chris found that likeness in Shanann, but it's probably why Cindy and Shanann don't get along because they're the same fucking person.
Yeah, exactly.
Not the same person, but...
Yeah, they have similar strongheadedness.
They certainly do. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Total foreshadowing for a little bit from now.
Even things with Chris's family seemed to start getting better. After the birth of Cece, the Watts family began to make efforts in reconnecting in order to be a part of Bella and Cece's life.
In June of 2018, Shanann would have revealed to Chris that she was pregnant with their third child.
Perhaps this was surprising to him as the couple had not been getting along at this time. Doesn't mean that they weren't having sex, but still.
Shanann had been expressing to her friends that she was feeling some distance from Chris. She told Nicole Atkinson that the only other time that she had experienced this feeling was right after they had been married, when Chris went through his deep depression.
Determined to keep their marriage afloat, Shanann made the decision to communicate to Chris that she was there to support him in anything that he needed. Maybe he can come out of this again with some extra love and recognition.
Mm-hmm.
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That June, Father's Day came around, and Shanann posted a very personal Happy Father's Day post for Chris, ensuring that he would see that she was trying to be a good and loyal wife during this tough time for Chris.
However, this extra support and attention was met with a lot of resistance from Chris.
Shanann told her friends that regularly Chris denied sexual advances or seemingly anything that had to do with romance between her and Chris.
Chris claimed that the reason that he was under so much stress was due to the relationship or lack thereof between Shanann and Chris's family.
However, unbeknownst to Shanann, around the time that Shanann told Chris that she was pregnant with their third child, Chris would meet a co-worker that would change the course of this life forever.
Nicole Kissinger worked at Annadarko Petroleum with Chris in the Environmental Department, so not to be confused with Nicole Atkinson, who's Shanann's friend.
One day, when Nicole headed into the break room there, she was met with Chris, who was at the time not wearing a wedding ring, which is interesting.
She had heard that he was at least a father, so Chris admitted that yes, he was married and he did have two little girls, but that he and his wife Shanann had separated and they were in the process of getting divorced.
That's what they all say.
The classic, right?
Yeah.
It's all this time.
Chris seemed like a great dad, and Nicole and him hit it off almost instantly.
He said that when he met Nicole, she, quote, took my brother away.
Oh, what quote?
Fuck ever, Chris.
She said, quote, he made me believe that he was doing all of the things a rational and good father, rational man and good father would do, end quote.
The two would start a physical relationship within a month of seeing each other, and during that time, they were seeing each other for almost, they were seeing each other almost every day of the week, like four or five days a week.
Jesus.
For like, yeah, from like the get, they were just like, oh, this is it, this is like a, this is maybe a forever thing.
So it's not that he doesn't want to have sex, he just doesn't want to have sex with Shanann.
Or maybe, I don't know, there's some people that think that way though, like they feel like if they're cheating, and they're only sexually active with one of those people, like maybe the person you're cheating on or whatever, they won't have sex with their wife.
Like it's almost like this weird, sick monogamous thing.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I mean, it's gross anyways.
Yeah.
It's like, ew, gross, monogamy.
Ew.
So good.
So Chris seemed to be all in.
Nicole, however, felt that the relationship was escalating in a way that was somewhat concerning to her.
After all, he is still in the divorce process, and he had two little girls that needed their lives to be adjusted because of the divorce.
Introducing a new woman may be unsettling for the kids, and that's where she seemed like this was heading, this eventually I'm going to have to meet his daughters.
Yeah.
And it was just too fast for her.
Meanwhile, in an effort to reconnect with Chris's family, and the good fucking wife and woman this woman is,
Shanann planned to take the girls on a trip to visit her and Chris's family in North Carolina.
So about early July, the family agreed, or late June, the family agreed that Shanann would take the girls to North Carolina for an entire six weeks while Chris stayed behind to work for five weeks.
And then he would fly up to North Carolina for the last week that they'd be there.
Okay.
He called up Nicole to tell her the good news.
His divorce had been finalized, and Shanann had taken the girls to North Carolina where she would ultimately stay.
Oh my god.
After the five glorious weeks that they'd spent together, he would fly to North Carolina to bring his girls back for himself, and Shanann would just stay behind.
The night before Shanann, Bella, and Cece would fly out, Shanann asked Chris directly if he was having an affair to which he denied.
Fucking bastard.
Well, like, she knows, clearly.
She's like, yeah, like, you're having an affair. Just tell me.
Yeah.
You're a terrible liar.
And we've all seen the video, folks.
We've all seen the footage.
He's a terrible liar.
He's a bad liar.
He's so bad.
Ugh.
Shanann told a friend that she didn't really believe him, but that she felt she had no other choice but to keep her family together.
Yeah.
And that maybe gaining some distance for five weeks would be good for them.
During the five weeks that Chris and Nicole were together, they vacationed three times.
Oh my god.
Like, with what money, though?
No, yeah, her, probably Shanann's.
Either Shanann's money or Nicole's money.
Also during this time, Shanann would find out that the couple were expecting a boy.
A boy in which they had previously agreed would be called Nico Lee.
While in North Carolina, all hell broke loose when visiting Cindy and Ronnie.
It was said by Shanann that Cindy offered the girls ice cream.
Cindy, either on purpose or not, offered ice cream that had peanuts in it to Bella.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
Shanann, understandably upset, confronts the grandparents about this.
Shanann writes to Chris through text, and this is likely the short version, but I'm going to read it.
Let me adjust my legs here.
Shanann takes another opportunity at this time to express other concerns of hers.
Quote, the truth came out last night.
I didn't create any dagger between you and your dad.
That was done by your mom and your dad.
And I won't change a thing.
My daughter's life is way more important, and you better believe that when I wanted to say a whole lot more than I did.
But I was being the bigger person and protecting Bella.
I didn't tell your dad not to come to the party.
I didn't tell him not to text or call your daughter on her birthday.
And I didn't tell him to start acting like he only has two grandkids instead of four.
I didn't block your family on Facebook, he did.
Myself and your kids have nothing to say to them.
They do.
They owe your kids their life.
Your parents' home isn't a safe zone.
Your mom isn't safe.
You can let them tell you what you want, but I didn't tell anyone to stop loving your kids or to stop acting like it.
He did that, not me.
You can't believe that I created this dagger, but you can't.
You can believe that I created this dagger, but I didn't do that.
I stood up for our kids.
I advocated and protected our children.
I don't ever want to hear, I'm sorry I killed your kids because I was stupid.
That would kill me.
These kids are my world and I have to protect them from evil of the world.
I shouldn't have to protect them from evil family.
Our kids deserve the same love and attention the other kids get.
Nothing less.
I'm not accepting I'm sorry from your mom because she doesn't mean it and she knew what she was doing.
I made it very clear not to eat around Celeste because I don't understand.
She doesn't understand why before that happened.
She's evil and willing to risk your daughter's life to get under my skin.
You and your dad are no different if you're okay with her behavior.
There's nothing wrong with me and I'm not crazy.
I just love my kids way too much.
From that day that I left, you never said that I missed you before I said it.
Something changed when I left.
You may be happier alone and that's fine.
You can be alone.
This pregnancy you have failed to acknowledge it or acknowledge how I'm feeling.
The first trimester is the scariest and most dangerous yet.
We can lose this baby at any point to delivery.
I'm not going to be treated this way for having the balls to protect our family and our kids.
I should get a gold medal for handling it the way that I did because I had a lot of choice words that I wanted to say to her and your dad for his stupidity.
No one stands up to your mom and your dad for that.
He's just as guilty by not doing anything.
I have nothing to do with him.
Stop sharing memories of his grandkids.
Why does he have to what does that have to do with me?
They're fucking with our kids feelings and I'm not okay with that.
I am their mother and I won't protect them.
I have enough to worry about with the world out there.
I'm not going to worry about family.
I'll just remove it and quote.
Damn.
She was not happy.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be either.
No, I wouldn't be either.
Like it's not a fucking secret that my daughter has a peanut allergy.
Right.
Or any allergies.
Yeah, exactly.
She's said it multiple times on the YouTube videos when they're cooking together and stuff.
She's like, well, we're making these because Bella needs these specific ones because she can't have certain things.
So after this fallout, the WAPS family did not attend CZ's third birthday, which was in the time that they were staying there.
Needless to say, things were a little rocky by July 31st when Chris would kiss his new lover goodbye and hop on a plane headed for North Carolina.
There's actually a video of them picking him up at the airport and like the girls like run to him and like all that stuff, but he had literally just in the last like five weeks.
Yeah.
With his girlfriend.
Jesus.
How can you just like do that and just like pretend like everything is normal?
That you think that you're like going to get away with it.
Like you think you're like, it's the best on narcissism.
Yeah.
You think that no one's going to fucking know you're going to outsmart everybody.
Yeah, you're just the smartest person alive.
Chris probably visited with his parents, but by all accounts, Shanae did not take the opportunity to hang out with the WAPS family and decided to spend more time with her family instead.
During this last week in North Carolina, Shanae mysteriously got sick.
She began to feel disoriented and threw up a few times and unbeknownst to Shanae, Chris had drugged Shanae with Oxycontin.
What?
In an effort to force an abortion on Shanae.
Oh my God, that's horrendous.
This was apparently stated by Chris at some point during an exchange with a pen pal after he was in prison, but the details have never been confirmed and he would later deny that he ever said that.
Oh my gosh.
So you didn't say that?
It would make sense though, because he told Nicole, I'm just bringing the kids back.
That's true.
I think he intended to kill her while he was in North Carolina.
Yeah, I mean that makes sense.
He's like, she's going to stay.
She's going to stay for a minute.
Yeah, she's staying in North Carolina.
Oh.
Either way, the family was to return home after the week of being together in North Carolina.
And furthermore, Shanae had planned on being out of town for business the next weekend, which was the 9th through the 12th.
I think they got back on like the 7th or something.
Of July?
Of August.
Oh.
So yeah, they left for North Carolina.
I want to say like I said that last week of June or the first week of July, and they were there for six weeks.
So that's essentially all of July.
And then yeah, so they think they got back like I said on the 7th.
And then which was, see the 9th I think was a Thursday.
So they would have been back on like Monday or Tuesday.
And then Thursday she would go out of town.
Sorry.
So Shanae leaves for the trip with her co-worker and friend Nicole Atkinson.
Another instance of Shanae feeling sick occurred around the same week.
So a doctor's appointment was then set for Monday the 13th, which would have been a Monday.
I said a Monday.
So that would be the day after that Shanae would return from her trip.
While Shanae was away, Chris actually hired a babysitter one night in order to go out with Nicole Kessinger.
Oh my God.
He told Shanae he was going to a baseball game with co-workers.
A correspondence between Shanae and a friend writes,
He hasn't responded.
That's hard.
I don't want to have this baby.
What?
I can't do this alone with three kids and I'm not happy.
This baby was made with love and that's what's happening.
It's temporary.
You guys love each other.
You guys will be able to overcome this.
I asked again because he ignored me and he just said,
No, I can't do this.
He's a good father and you know that he loves you to pieces.
I can't fight alone.
I've been fighting for eight years.
This started eight years ago when we started dating.
His mom and his sister have been destroying us since.
Just don't let them win.
This is the worst it's gotten and I can't do this.
I can't find fight my own husband and he's completely okay with this.
Never give up and never surrender.
I don't have it any these last six weeks have been hell.
You'll be surprised what people can do.
You guys are going to go back to Colorado.
Things will calm down.
Mama, just give it some time.
I'm 14 weeks and he hasn't once touched my belly or asked how my pregnancy is going.
That just adds to this.
He wanted this pregnancy.
She later adds,
I canceled the 40 ultrasound and the gender reveal party.
I've lost all excitement.
I just want to sleep and cry.
Oh, so sad.
After a long flight home,
Shanann Watts arrives at home on August 13th at about two in the morning.
Nicole Atkinson drove the 15 week pregnant Shanann home that night
and the two had discussed Shanann's doctor's appointment,
which was scheduled at 9am the next morning.
Nicole encouraged Shanann to get some good sleep
and to let her know she needed a ride in the morning for her appointment.
Shanann agreed and Nicole watched as Shanann headed up the few steps
towards the front door and entered the Watts family home.
Shanann's phone began buzzing at around 8.30 in the morning.
It went to voicemail.
Another call shortly after, another voicemail.
A third call was made by Nicole Atkinson,
who had expected to hear back from Shanann
to let her know if she needed a ride to her doctor's appointment.
At 8.55am, Nicole texted Shanann,
quote, just wanted to see if you were okay, end quote.
At 9.21, Nicole texts again, quote,
let me know how your appointment goes, end quote.
As the morning goes on, Nicole becomes intensely concerned about Shanann,
as Shanann was due to be at a work meeting after her scheduled doctor's appointment.
Furthermore, Nicole was horrified when she called the doctor's office herself
and told her that Shanann had not been to that appointment that morning.
At 11.46am, Nicole texts Shanann one last time, quote,
I'm very worried about you, I'm coming to your house, end quote.
Nicole then takes her teenage son and rushes over to the Watts residence.
She looks into the garage and sees Shanann's vehicle,
which still contained two car seats.
She furiously knocks on the door but is met with silence.
She then phones the police.
The police arrive on the scene and although they cannot enter the residence
without the homeowner's consent, which would be Chris,
the officers look around the property.
All of this is caught on body cam and the video is out there.
Chris was contacted by Nicole and rushed home immediately.
Previously, he had been ignoring her phone calls,
but when he learned the police were there, he left work and rushed to the house.
Oh, fucking course he did.
Nicole had called Shanann's mother to see if she had heard from her daughter
and after contacting Sandra Ruchek, Sandra called Chris to ask about Shanann.
He told Sandra, Shanann's mom, that she was just at a girlfriend's house for the day.
So again, this was related to Nicole by Sandra who called bullshit.
She's like, no, she had a doctor's appointment and she was supposed to get this meeting
and no, she's not at a girlfriend's house.
She's like, I'm the girlfriend and she's not in my house.
Yeah, exactly.
Nicole found that Shanann had seemingly left behind not just her own medication,
but the girl's medications as well, which by now we know Shanann, she would never do.
The girls' blankets were missing from their beds
and they were also in the middle of the night.
Nicole found that Shanann had left behind her own medication
and she was supposed to be in the middle of the night.
So she was almost in a situation where she was supposed to be in the middle of the night.
But she never did. The girls' blankets were missing from their beds,
which Chris acknowledged they never go anywhere without.
Shanann's phone seemed to be dead.
However, when it was plugged in it was noted that it had simply been turned off.
Ew, oh my God, ew.
Literally in front of Nikki and her son.
And she's seeing this.
And you can see it in Nicole's face.
She is looking at this man like you, motherfucker.
Yeah, like what the fuck did you do?
And he's sweating bullets the whole fucking time.
And he's not a good liar.
He's just like, oh, I found her wedding ring by the nightstand.
Like it's sad.
And it's just like, yeah, he's like, oh, she must have left me.
It's the way he's selling it. Oh, it's so ugly.
Another clue came from the form of a neighbor's camera.
Came from the form. Came in the form.
The neighbor offered the officer to view the last night's footage,
which would be like, you know, from two when she arrived home till Chris left in the morning.
The camera captured at about 5.15 in the morning, Chris going out to his truck,
which was usually parked across the street as to not block Shanann's car in the garage.
It was a one car garage.
He would get into his truck and then back the truck up into the driveway.
Great.
Chris stated that he simply needed to load some tools into the truck for his day of work.
Chris can then be seen leaving the driveway.
After the three of them, it's the three of them, I think it's like the officer, the neighbor,
and Chris all watch the footage together.
And again, he's sweating bullets and like, oh, I had to load some, like a screwdriver, you know, or something.
Trying to explain it away.
So then Chris decided to, he leaves the neighbor's house so that the officer could talk to the neighbor.
The neighbor noted that Chris was not acting like himself at all,
because the usually calm and quiet man was very fidgety and talkative.
I remember this interview.
And it's so true.
Like Chris leaves and the guy's like, bro, no, it's that guy.
He's hiding something.
He's like, he just fucking see that.
He's like, no.
He said he's not, he's not acting like himself at all.
I mean, he's like, beat red.
Imagine like being that neighbor and standing there and listening to Chris explain this, like knowing he did something.
He's fucking lying.
He knows something.
He's a terrible liar.
And being probably terrified for your life.
Thankfully, the police officer is there.
Right.
By this time, more officers began to arrive on scene to help search for Shinnan, Bella, and CeCe.
The neighborhood was canvassed and no one reported any suspicious vehicles or persons in the area between the time that Chris left for work
and the time that the police showed up.
Because he's the perpetrator.
Because he's not suspicious.
He lives there.
Yeah.
The first day of searching was unsuccessful and now the parents of Shinnan and Chris were on flights headed to Colorado to aid of the search of Shinnan and the kids.
A bullet was put out for Shinnan and the girls and by the next day, Chris was approached to do a TV interview for local news in order to spread the word about his missing family.
Let me guess, he passed with flying colors and he looked great.
An interview?
Yeah.
Have you seen the interview?
Yes.
Oh my word.
His pleas were met with speculation as the man who was missing not only his wife but two daughters could be seen with his arms crossed, legs spread in a prepared stance, and swaying from left to right as he spoke.
He's like, I don't know.
I just, I just, I don't know.
If you guys are listening, just come home.
Like, direct quote.
Well, almost.
Chris can be quoted by saying quote, Shinnan, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back.
Like, if somebody has her, just please bring her back.
I need to see everybody.
I need to see everybody again.
This house is not complete without anybody here.
Please bring them back.
End quote.
Fucking.
Cole Kessinger with knife, not find out that Chris was still married until the news report broke.
Yep.
Oh, sounds like Amber Fry.
Yeah, it does.
Ugh.
In the news interview, Chris admitted that the two had had a quote, emotional argument
before he headed off to work that morning.
Oh.
Well, we didn't have a fight.
It was an emotional argument.
Yeah.
We just disagreed on some things.
It was an emotional discussion.
It was really emotional.
Yeah, it was just really emotional for me.
By the next day, the FBI had gotten involved in the search.
Yeah.
They requested that Chris come in to be interviewed again regarding the disappearance of his family.
Upon hearing that his son was being interviewed by the FBI, Ronnie Watts headed to the station
to support his son.
Ronnie was asked some questions by detectives regarding the relationship his son shared with
Shanann.
And of course, Ronnie would say that Shanann was a difficult woman and that the family did
have its troubles, but doubted that his son was capable of hurting anyone, especially his
own family.
After all, he literally did everything for Shanann.
Yeah.
Chris would eventually agree to a light detector test in which he failed.
Sorry, that's not funny.
But that's the narcissism again.
Yeah.
Oh, I can beat this.
It's just a fucking stupid machine.
Just a machine.
Confronted with this evidence, detectives put a little bit more heat on Chris.
He further admitted that he had confessed to Shanann that night that he was having an
affair with a co-worker.
But that he said, although the argument was explosive, he did leave the conversation to
head to work.
Chris would still not tell detectives where Shanann, Bella, and Celeste were after all
of this.
Yeah.
Even after the polygraph.
No, of course not.
Running out of options, detectives decided to try a new tactic by inviting Ronnie Watts
into the room with Chris and leaving the two alone to talk, just father and son.
When asked multiple times to just come clean by his father, Chris came out and said, quote,
she smothered them, end quote.
I can't fucking stand that.
Do you not know that?
But he tried to play on the side.
I did know that.
It's just every time I hear it, it pisses me off even more.
Sorry.
Ronnie asked, she smothered them, so she killed them, end quote.
Chris said, quote, they were both blue.
I just freaked out and did the same thing to her, end quote.
What the fuck ever, dude?
Beside himself, Ronnie could only utter good God Almighty Son as he reached out for his
hand across the interview table.
Now that police knew that Chris likely had the information of the whereabouts of Shanann,
Bella, and Celeste, that was their next priority, which was to find them.
Chris told investigators the location of where the bodies of Shanann, Bella, and Celeste could
be found.
He said that they could be located at a work site on the company property.
This would be charged with three counts of first degree murder.
It would not be until Chris was convicted of all three murders of Shanann, Bella, and
Celeste, two counts of murder of a child under 12, unlawful termination of a pregnancy, and
three counts of tampering with deceased bodies, that he confessed to what actually happened
in the morning of August 13th, 2018.
When Chris got up that morning to head to work, he told Shanann that he was having an
affair with Nicole Kessinger, and that he had planned on filing for divorce.
Shanann then threatened Chris with taking the children away from him.
He then strangled Shanann while she was sitting up in bed.
He began to wrap Shanann's body when four-year-old Bella came into the master bedroom and asked
what's wrong with mommy.
He then loaded Shanann's body into the bed of his truck.
He took the girls and wrapped them in their blankets, packing them into the truck together.
He said that the girls fell asleep on the way to the work site.
This is where Chris dug a shallow grave for Shanann and his unborn son, Nico.
Chris then returned to the truck where he then took the life of three-year-old Celeste
in front of four-year-old Bella.
He took Celeste's lifeless body and placed it into a massive crude oil tank that sat
at the site, just yards away from her mother, Shanann.
When Chris went back to the truck for four-year-old Bella, she asked her father, is the same thing
gonna happen to Mia Cece?
Chris smothered Bella and placed her, too, in a separate oil tank than her sister.
Chris pleaded guilty to all counts, and Chris was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences
without the possibility of parole plus 84 years.
Like the dude's gonna die in prison.
Thank God.
Shanann, Bella, and Celeste are buried at Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Pinehurst, North
Carolina, so they're buried at home, not in Colorado.
Their graves are never without fresh flowers, teddy bears, and letters to them from their
and their family from people all over the country who give their condolences to the
four wonderful lives lost to a man who is honestly too chicken shit to do the right
thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, that's like one of the things that makes me just want to like, I don't even
know what I would do if I ever like saw that guy, but how do you listen to your daughter
ask you if you're about to kill her and then you do it?
Yeah, like what happened to mommy?
Like what are you gonna do to me?
Like how do you listen to that and not fucking check yourself and say, oh shit, what the
fuck am I doing?
He was just in too deep.
He was a fucking pussy.
The WAPS family continued to stay by Chris aside saying that they have forgiven their
son for his crimes.
And yeah, I think it's really interesting.
People have said in many cases of this kind of familicide or this, you know, what do they
call it?
It's like a very specific term for that demographic of white male societal pressure and to make
money and all this other stuff.
There's a very specific term for it, but in most of those cases, the male usually ends
up committing suicide.
Like in the case of Chris Benoit, he killed his wife and his son and then ultimately himself.
And you see that a lot in those types of cases with men that are affluent or have money struggles,
white males between a certain age demographic.
And yeah, it's just really interesting that he would choose not to unless that was his
plan and then he just didn't.
I don't think he would have gone to work if that was his plan.
I think that he thought that he was going to get away with it because he was going to
make it look like he was going to probably the text messages as proof and make it look
like Shanann left him and took the kids after wedding ring and he was going to try to live
happily ever after with Nicole until the same shit probably happened eventually.
You know, I don't know.
And I've been trying very hard this episode to be open-minded.
I think that narcissistic personality disorder kind of meets the mark here, but anti-social,
I don't know how quiet he was and how kind of like he like domineering, if you will,
that Shanann was in the relationship and how the neighbors even noted that he was like
not interested in.
I guess that's not really anti-social.
The anti-social is just no care at all for anybody's feelings.
But definitely some kind of a personality disorder.
It's almost like people that, it's like this snap decision almost is what it sounds like.
What did he, what was, and we can say it was because of financial pressure.
We can say it's because of the affair.
What it really was is I think he just got fed up.
I think so too.
I think that he didn't, he was like, you know, if there's this much discourse in our relationship,
why isn't she leaving?
Why isn't she leaving me?
Like what am I going to do?
What else can I do to get her to leave?
Oh, I'll admit to the affair, then she'll pack her shit and go.
But she probably, in my opinion, probably said, that's fine.
I figured that's what was going on.
I will work on it with you.
And to me, I feel like that was more triggering to him than her exploding and wanting to leave.
I was going to say, even though he said that she threatened to leave when he admitted the
affair, because according to him, she blew up on him and said she's going to take the
kids.
She was going to take the kids.
And we don't know.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
It was like every time he would pull away.
It's so funny because that's literally the beginning of their relationship.
She tried to pull away and he kept chasing her.
Well, the moment that she turned around and said, okay, okay, okay, I'll give you this,
I want to give you this dream life, he started pulling back.
That's classic narcissism though.
I feel like it's like I want to win you over and when it's convenient for me so that I
have whatever I need in the moment and then I'm not going to love you anymore.
I never did.
You know what I mean?
For sure.
That's just so awful about the kids.
That breaks my heart every time I hear that story.
Absolutely.
You look at those little girls too and Bella looks so much like Chris and Cece looks so
much like Shanann.
It was like the two little Vems.
It was, gosh, and there's sweet kids.
And like I said, I would recommend to anybody to watch her YouTube videos.
I think there was a YouTube channel called Shining Light and that's mostly where I watched
Shanann's videos and it was like, like I said, it was like listening to a girlfriend or something
like on the phone or doing their own live stream.
I would put my wireless headset on and I'd walk around the house and I'd be doing chores
while listening to Shanann talk about chores or cooking and with the kids in the background
and it was surreal.
It was surreal to watch and to really, it's just, it's almost like unbeknownst to her.
She was documenting her life before it was taken and it just, it was, I don't say it
very often but this is a case that's going to stick with me for a really long time.
I mean, it has, it's stuck with me since I heard about it the first time, you know?
Yeah.
And every time I hear about it, I'm like, gosh.
And I mean, I can hear her voice, you know, and just that image of her sitting on the
back porch in Colorado and there's neighbors doing some yard work or something and there's
some dogs barking and there's birds tweeting and it's just, it's like, it's more than just,
this is why I want to tackle this, it's more than just Chris Watts and what Chris Watts
believes and feels and acts.
It has everything to do with Shanann and, you know, and again, we talk about this as
a mental health podcast and usually we talk about the mental health of the perpetrator
but a lot of it was us talking about Shanann's mental health too.
Yeah, for sure.
And yeah, absolutely.
She was deserving of being recognized.
Yeah, like I said at the beginning of the episode, I'm like, oh, you know, he likes
when people do stories on him, blah, blah.
I still, I know that's still to be true but it's an important story to share because
of the people that lost their lives, you know?
Yeah, for sure.
Well, thanks for bringing that.
Yeah, that was...
Not the episode of Chris Watts, that was the episode of Shanann and Bella and Celeste
Waps.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you guys for joining us.
Check us out in the next couple of weeks.
We're gonna have in December a Patreon episode and mental breakdown, or a Patreon episode
and regular episode come back to back again like it was this year or this month.
So you're gonna get some content and then starting up in the new year again, we're gonna
go back to our regular schedule of a mental breakdown Monday and then a true crime Thursday
case as well.
So you get a lot more content come the new year.
Yes.
Alright, you have anything else?
Just put your orders in folks for those shirts and those koozies.
And one last thing, we did get our Spotify for podcasters wrapped and we just want to
say thank you guys so much for all of the continued support and continued downloads.
We saw a huge, huge, huge increase in a lot of our downloads and listens and streams and
even followers and we have our top five countries.
Do you want to hear them?
Yeah.
Okay, so our top five listeners in our top five countries, the US is number one of course
and then it is followed by the UK and then Canada and then Australia and then Germany,
which I was so hyped about.
I was like, Germany, I see you Germany.
That's awesome.
So yeah, thank you guys so much for listening and we'll post a couple of those stats on
Instagram like a bunch of people have been doing for podcasts, Spotify wrapped.
I think that's really cool.
They're already starting to make memes of it.
They're so funny.
Really?
Yeah, it's like how many times you've cried this year or whatever.
Oh, that's so funny.
I love that.
All right, we'll see you guys next time and we'll talk to you later.
Yeah.
Love you.
Bye.