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Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koel and I'm Kenna.

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How's it going? It's going kind of great.

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Great.

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I cannot wait for this episode.

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Oh my god.

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Is it going to be good?

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I think so.

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I mean, anything I write is good.

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Just the best.

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Any new news?

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I don't think so. We've gotten a lot of really great correspondence.

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Just want to give another shout out to our friend, Adrienne.

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She messaged us back at everything and we definitely had a great success with that episode that we put out on Ed Kemper.

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And she definitely was gracious and awesome to respond to us.

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So that was really cool.

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And hopefully we can do something like that in the future.

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I think so too.

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I think it was really rewarding to hear someone, you know, because we're not licensed.

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So we don't diagnose on here, but it is really awesome to listen to licensed professionals' opinion on a big case like that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It's really cool.

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But yeah, everything's going good.

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I just still have my amestes, prerigrim, and work, and the holiday is coming up.

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So it's just all, but I think it's going good.

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Yeah.

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Just remember to, you know, take care of yourself.

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Everybody out there.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Continue to take care of your mental health.

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The holidays can be hard for some people.

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So if you need that extra help or extra serotonin boost around that time, don't feel bad for doing that for yourself.

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Yeah.

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And before we get started, do you want to give everyone our handles?

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Sure.

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You can find us on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer other than X, which is

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at Killer Diagnosis.

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We have a Patreon that is also at Killer, sorry, Diagnosing a Killer.

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We got a Patreon out there.

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We also have merchy merch items that are on our link tree on our Instagram.

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By the way, if anybody ordered two Kozies, I am the person that didn't leave a space for your contact info.

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So we have no idea who you are.

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So you don't know who you are.

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Reach out to us if you were the one that just filled out two Kozies black with red lettering or white lettering, I guess it is.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, check out our Kozies and I'm sure if you guys haven't seen the Instagram post you have a bit on social media.

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We are now doing 100% merch ourselves.

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We decided to remain self-sufficient like we always strive to be and cut out the third party merch people.

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So we are going to continue to do those merch items ourselves.

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So we do have just one design right now that's out for the shirt and the Kozie, but we have plenty in the works and we will be posting videos and pictures about those soon.

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Yeah, absolutely. The third party supplier that we were going through, they actually didn't do front and back on our shirts.

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So it was like, now we have the availability to do front and back on our t-shirts.

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So if you have a suggestion, please let us know.

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Yeah, for sure. And everyone that has already purchased some of that merch, thank you very much.

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And send us pictures of you guys wearing your merch so we can post it on the insti.

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Yeah, or Kozies.

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Yes.

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Are you ready?

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I don't know. Yes, go ahead.

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I feel like you knew who I was doing.

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I mean, I said, I told you I would never, ever cover this case.

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And I've actually told listeners I will never cover this case.

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I seriously don't think I know who you're doing.

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My pretty sure it involves kids now that you're saying that.

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Right. But I, yeah.

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I still don't, I don't know.

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Today we are gonna, oh my God, I would lose my shit. Hold on.

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Today we're gonna talk about Chris Watts.

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Ew, why?

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I know, I remember we agreed a long time ago to never cover it.

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Just give it a chance. Just give it a chance.

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I'll give it a chance.

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But I'm telling you, he like enjoys when people write about him.

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Like he's like, he's so narcissistic.

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He's like, yeah, they did an episode on me.

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Would it make you feel any better that because of a suit against,

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I guess we can talk about at the end, but essentially he owes

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Shadam's family $6 million, which will absolutely ensure that he will never profit off of him, what he did.

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No, I get that. And that's totally, I mean, that's obviously like it should be a thing, but.

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But you don't think that people that kill other people want people to talk about them?

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I'm sure they do, but he's been like vocal about him.

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Especially him because he's a fucking narcissist.

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Anyway, yeah, just go ahead.

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I mean, we're already here.

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We're already here.

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Let's do it.

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Write the whole episode down.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Bye, bye.

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Content warning.

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This episode contains descriptions of severe depression, stressors between family members,

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drugging, and familicide.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to listen to another one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health comes first and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Christopher Lee Watts was born May 6, 1985, in a small community just north of Fayetteville, North Carolina,

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to his parents, Cindy and Ronnie Watts.

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He was the younger child of two with one older sister named Jamie.

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Chris was described as a quiet type person and didn't give the family much trouble growing up.

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So there wasn't a lot of really red flags.

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He seemed like a normal kid and about the only thing that Chris really seemed to have an immense passion for at a young age was race cars.

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Jamie, Chris's sister, however, recalls it by high school.

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Her brother, whom she was really close to, seemed to drift away from the connection the two once shared.

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Chris attended Pine Forest High School and gravitated towards automotive class, naturally.

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Joe Doody, who was a former teacher of Chris, said about him at this time, quote,

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he was one of the smartest students I ever had.

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The guy had a photographic memory, end quote.

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Another quote, his biggest passion outside of automotive was NASCAR.

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He knew what chapter and verse and everything you could possibly ask about NASCAR, he knew.

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In fact, I told him before he graduated, I said to Chris,

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if I ever had a student who was going to be tremendously successful, it's you, end quote.

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Yikes.

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So he wanted to work his way up to eventually be a NASCAR crew chief.

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That's what he wanted to do.

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Chris was described as a quiet and reserved type.

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And he was the kind of guy that all the girls had a crush on.

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This is also somewhat odd, as although Chris was one of the more popular kids,

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he never really seemed to connect in others in a way that you would expect of a young man with that kind of popularity status.

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Joe went on to say, quote, often I wondered why he was so withdrawn.

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He was very clean cut, very respectful, and very smart, end quote.

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After graduation, Chris attended the University of Miami, where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering.

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Dang.

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Soon after graduating around 2007, Chris would move back to Fayetteville area.

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And by this time, Chris was looking to date and began to ask friends to set him up

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or be on the lookout for a potential partner to share his life with.

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Shanann Catherine Ruschuk was born January 10th, 1984, twinning.

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Strong-headed Capricorn.

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Her parents were Frank and Sandra.

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I think it's Ruchuk.

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It's spelled R-Z-U-C-E-K.

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Ruchuk.

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The family lived in New Jersey when Shanann was born and grew up in a financially lacking family,

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although the family grew up in kind of lower middle class.

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Eventually, Shanann had a brother named Frank, or Frankie Jr., as he was lovingly called.

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The family would eventually move to Southern Pines, North Carolina, which is about an hour away from Fayetteville, where Chris was living.

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Shanann said when she was growing up, she felt pretty insecure about herself.

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She did just okay in high school, but certainly didn't stand out socially in her high school of pinecrest,

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not to be confused with Chris's who was pine forest, she was pinecrest.

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High school.

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I know it's, I just wanted to put that out there, I did not make a mistake, I promise.

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I checked like about 20 times, too.

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Shanann said about this time, quote,

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I was never the smartest kid on the block.

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I worked my tail off to fight through school.

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I was the one staying up until 2 a.m. in the morning studying and still struggling.

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I'm a horrible test taker.

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A horrible test taker.

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I could know all the answers, but put that test in front of me and I bomb it, or I struggle, and I've always struggled through school.

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I think insecurities played a role in my everything, but what was different about me was that I never give up, end quote long.

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Well, that, I mean, we see it a lot and maybe, I don't want to say we see it a lot, but I've heard stories a lot where it has been personally admitted that

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people tend to gravitate towards narcissists if they have a lot of insecurities.

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Because they don't have to make the decisions for themselves.

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They don't have to speak up if they don't want to, you know, things like that.

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And it's just easier to just go along with this domineering personality.

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That is so interesting that you said that because...

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Because I'm just always on top of it with these things.

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After graduating high school, Shanann would meet a man by the name of Leonard King.

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The two would quickly marry, and I mean very quickly.

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This would have been around 2002, 2003, according to Leonard.

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And this would have made Shanann either still in high school when they met, or shortly after she left high school.

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Yikes.

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Yeah.

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Oh, actually, Leonard met Shanann while she was in high school.

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And he said that although reserved, she seemed to get along with most anyone.

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The two were married for several years, but ultimately after trying a few counseling sessions at Leonard's request, the two separated in 2007 or 2008.

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Okay.

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He said that oftentimes when in these counseling sessions, Shanann seemed to shut down or cut herself off the conversation if it became too much.

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That's that insecurity.

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Eventually the couple were sleeping in separate rooms, and Shanann said about the marriage that she often felt depressed and wanted more from life.

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She said about this time, quote,

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I was in a place for a long time where I felt very insecure.

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I was married, and I got a divorce, and it took a lot from me.

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It took my confidence, it literally took everything, and quote, this is sad.

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The two never had any children, which may be due to Shanann being told at a certain point that she actually couldn't conceive children.

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Really?

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After the divorce, Shanann said that she struggled to pick herself back up again.

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She said, quote, I remember coming out feeling the weakest I've ever felt in my life.

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Like, I was no good.

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Like, I wasn't enough.

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My insecurities got deeper, stronger, and I felt like I was not worthy of anything, and quote.

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It's a horrible feeling.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Shanann credits good friends around her who helped strengthen her confidence and soon began setting her sights on becoming more self-sufficient.

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Again, her family was not hugely affluent, so hard work was something that Shanann had kind of been exposed to at a young age,

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and this was no different in her attitude towards work.

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She dedicated herself to exploring who she was as a person,

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and remained single for several years in an effort to focus on what was important to her,

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and her growing into an empowered young woman.

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Shanann had made a goal to save enough money to buy her own house by the age of 25,

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which she was able to accomplish.

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This was a hugely rewarding moment for Shanann.

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Throughout this time, Shanann said that she gradually left behind some former friends,

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more so growing apart from them,

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as she, the dedicated Shanann, was constantly working towards her goal to buy her house,

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and her friends were continuing to participate in just early 20-year-old stuff.

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She said, quote, when you surround yourself with people who are just negative and not happy with life,

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which I get, I've been there, I've done that,

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but I'm choosing to, even on my worst days, not let negativity bring me down, end quote.

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Dang, that's a strong woman.

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I watched all of her videos, most all of her videos.

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Shanann around this time began experiencing some medical symptoms.

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She seemed tired all the time, and she was experiencing hair loss at an alarming rate.

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The young lady who had been coming into her own confidence began to feel worn down after seemingly the smallest chores.

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During this difficult period, Shanann had received a friend's suggestion by a girlfriend of hers on social media,

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but not really interested in dating at the time Shanann declined this friend's suggestion.

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After all, she's going through this very, very stressful time.

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She lost more friends who were tough on Shanann.

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After all, she looked fine on the outside, but was actually really suffering medically on the inside.

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Like her friend, she literally said in a video that people were like,

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oh, you're fine, don't you just need to get more rest, you know, stuff like that.

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What was she struggling with?

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Shanann knew that something was wrong, and after two months of beginning to see doctors,

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Shanann would be diagnosed with lupus.

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Oh, shit.

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According to the Mayo Clinic, lupus is a disease that occurs when your body's immune system

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tacks your own tissues and organs, or commonly known as an autoimmune disease.

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Inflammation caused by lupus can affect many different body systems, including your joints,

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skin, kidneys, blood cells, brain, heart, and lungs.

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Lupus can be difficult to diagnose because it signs and symptoms often mimic those of other ailments,

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which may be a reason why her friends were like, oh, it's just this, get more rest, or, you know,

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oh, it's probably because you worked out the other day, or...

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And that's so hard, because like you and me personally know somebody with lupus,

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and it is just very clear how hard it's been for them, you know?

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Shanann says this is the darkest time of her life.

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She ended up quitting her job after nine years of working there,

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as her employer at the time was unwilling to work around the understanding of Shanann's condition.

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00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,000
Like, they're like, oh, you call out too much.

228
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000
I was like, girl, has lupus.

229
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,000
Like, well, I also don't have to disclose to you my medical right reasonings.

230
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:04,000
All I have to do is give you a note that says I have medical, something serious, whatever, diagnosed.

231
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,000
Feeling low, Shanann turned to the internet to connect with others about her diagnosis,

232
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:15,000
which she did ultimately find a community that was supportive, as well as being able to make some friends online.

233
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:22,000
One day, Shanann gets a friend request from the same man that her previous friend had suggested on social media.

234
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,000
The friend request was from Chris Watts.

235
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Shanann said that she was grateful that Chris came into her life when he did,

236
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:36,000
as she was at her worst and felt like if he was going to be around for a long time, at least he was being introduced to the reality of her situation.

237
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,000
Yeah.

238
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,000
She said that she would often give him outs throughout their relationship and sometimes would push him away

239
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,000
in an attempt to see how committed Chris was to her and her situation, which really isn't a healthy thing to do.

240
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:54,000
It's not at all, but the thing is, I'm trying, I'm very hard as not to be super biased,

241
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,000
because I want to listen to the story with an open mind.

242
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,000
But the thing is, narcissists are going to do everything they can to get your trust,

243
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:07,000
even if it means staying when you do things like that, when you say,

244
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,000
oh, you have an out, just leave.

245
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000
No, I'm committed.

246
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,000
No, I'm committed.

247
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000
And then you see my commitment and then that makes you work twice as hard too.

248
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,000
Exactly.

249
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000
Yeah.

250
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
For sure.

251
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,000
She said Chris never left, that he would fight harder for her,

252
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,000
and then although, despite her best efforts, he maintained his commitment to her.

253
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:35,000
I'm surprised that he didn't find someone else to date between the time that her friend suggested

254
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,000
she'd meet him and then the reconnection.

255
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000
He might have been.

256
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,000
This was over the course of two months.

257
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,000
He might have been.

258
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,000
I thought it was longer than that.

259
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:51,000
No, it was, yeah, she had essentially, from my understanding, had around this time that suggested baby friends,

260
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000
but she had said, no, I'm not, I don't know what's going on with me medically.

261
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Got it.

262
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
You know, all this stuff.

263
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000
And then when she found out after the diagnosis is when she started getting online more.

264
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Chris's family have seemed not to care for Shanann from the beginning,

265
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,000
since she was previously married and his parents seemed to distrust her with their son.

266
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,000
Shanann was, yeah, right, yeah.

267
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Jesus.

268
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,000
Shanann was accused by Chris's parents of being controlling and bossy towards Chris,

269
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,000
and overall the feeling shared between Shanann and Chris's parents was full of tension.

270
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
Can you say projections?

271
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,000
Straight up.

272
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Cindy Watts said in an NBC interview, quote,

273
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,000
she said a lot of things about Chris in front of me that I didn't like.

274
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,000
Like, this isn't the kind of person I would date, or he doesn't know how to do this.

275
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,000
He doesn't know how to do that.

276
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,000
It was just on and on and on and I just had a bad feeling and quote.

277
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Okay, well, I kind of get kind of get that.

278
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,000
What was the Capricorn?

279
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,000
Like, I'm just going to be bossy.

280
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000
Probably fake news, but I kind of get that.

281
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000
Like, I would never say to Casey's mom, like,

282
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,000
oh, he can't do this right, or he can't do that.

283
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,000
I mean, maybe it would, because we have that kind of relationship, but not in the beginning.

284
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Like, not in the beginning at all, or telling him, telling her that he doesn't meet the bill for, you know, the person I want to date.

285
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,000
I don't know if this is necessarily right at the beginning, but that's what Cindy said in Ratcha's fact.

286
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,000
I would maybe make comments like, oh, he doesn't do this or doesn't do that, but I would never say.

287
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,000
He doesn't know how to do this.

288
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,000
He's not the kind of person that I would date.

289
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000
What kind of son did you raise?

290
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000
Yeah, no, no way.

291
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,000
He can't do this, can't do this.

292
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,000
These thoughts are not so far fetched.

293
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:32,000
Later, we see in Shanann's live stream videos that she often mentions that she was the dominating figure of the relationship.

294
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:39,000
She said quote, I've always had more patience for children than I do adults, and I guess that also goes for my husband and quote.

295
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,000
I mean, he's a child.

296
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,000
He's a child.

297
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000
He threw a big old tantrum.

298
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:52,000
Although many people who love Shanann would say that although she was the bossy type, her intention always came from a place of motivation and encouragement.

299
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,000
It sounds like you.

300
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
Right?

301
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000
Just do better.

302
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000
Just do better than whatever you yell at.

303
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,000
Shanann's my spirit person, I feel.

304
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,000
It was like so lovely listening to her videos.

305
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,000
It sounded like talking to a friend.

306
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,000
It was so sweet.

307
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,000
So yeah, she simply just wanted the best for the people around her.

308
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:23,000
Despite the tension between Shanann and Chris's family, the couple would seem great together and always pretty much blissful and quiet for two straight years, and the couple would be married in a beautiful wedding in 2012.

309
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:34,000
Frank Ruchak said in his speech that the two of them looked happy together and that he couldn't have picked a better man for his daughter, to which Frankie Jr. also agreed in his speech.

310
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
Okay.

311
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,000
Neither Chris's parents nor his sister would show up to the wedding.

312
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,000
I know.

313
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000
Scandaloso.

314
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000
Scandaloso?

315
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,000
What?

316
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,000
I mean, like, come on.

317
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,000
That's fucked up.

318
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000
It's not like he was previously married.

319
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000
Well, here's the thing.

320
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:59,000
As long as someone's partner is not abusive, why are you trying so hard to, like, not accept?

321
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:04,000
Like, do you think it was like a mommy, like, it's a baby boy syndrome?

322
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,000
He's the only man for me and now this woman is taking him away from me.

323
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,000
Absolutely.

324
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,000
You know that I, like, a lot of my previous relationships were like that.

325
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,000
No.

326
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000
Where the mom didn't like me.

327
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:27,000
And it's like, okay, I just, I understand that I might be a difficult person, maybe a standoffish person, but I certainly don't feel, this is another thing I'm going to raise right now, okay?

328
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,000
The finger in the air.

329
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,000
Through my finger in the air.

330
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000
Did you know?

331
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,000
Did you know?

332
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,000
No.

333
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000
I've told Cliff this.

334
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:48,000
I said, I, in the past have been accused of being aggressive or bossy or controlled, not controlling maybe, but those, those negative things, right?

335
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:54,000
I feel like I am a woman that chooses to speak when I fucking want to.

336
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000
Yeah.

337
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,000
And I feel like-

338
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Every person should be able to do.

339
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:15,000
I've been, that I, and many other women probably have the same experience, like it certainly cannot be the only one, but that just feeling like I shouldn't speak up, even in a way that I deem like I want to, is inappropriate for a woman.

340
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,000
And that's, and I just don't, I don't like that.

341
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,000
No, I don't like that either.

342
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:24,000
In listening to, and exactly like what I said, Shanann's family and friends know where her intentions are.

343
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000
She's not intentionally being terrible.

344
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,000
She's not intentionally putting someone down.

345
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,000
She's doing it in a motivational way.

346
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000
And she does it the best way that she knows how.

347
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
Because look at her.

348
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,000
She's getting fucking results by being the way that she is.

349
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,000
Yeah, well also it's like-

350
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:47,000
Buying the house and having the husband and, I mean, she's doing those things and she's feeling fulfilled by the same things that she's been doing.

351
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Excuse me.

352
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:55,000
So, you know, it's like, why should I have to diminish what I'm doing or my voice because you're uncomfortable about the way I present myself?

353
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,000
Because people are insecure.

354
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,000
That's exactly what it is.

355
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,000
And it's funny that we're saying, because she was saying that she struggled with insecurity for a while,

356
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:07,000
but people are feeling insecure at her presence clearly, even down to the Watts parents.

357
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,000
Right.

358
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:14,000
You know, they probably never even took the time to call her out on what she was saying or question her and say,

359
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000
why do you say that about him or blah blah blah?

360
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000
They just kind of let her do her thing and then they made a decision in their mind that they didn't like her.

361
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,000
Yeah, exactly.

362
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,000
And we've all been there.

363
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000
I've fucking done that before.

364
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,000
You know, I don't say anything to someone, but I don't like the way that they act and I just make the decision that they're a bad person.

365
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,000
And I am guilty of that.

366
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000
I've learned from it.

367
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:34,000
I've tried not to do that, but it's very understandable that that can happen.

368
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,000
But also it's like, not going to the wedding?

369
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000
Like that's, that's ridiculous.

370
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,000
Like I wouldn't do that.

371
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000
That you're drawing online.

372
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,000
She's not drawing the line.

373
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,000
She's not part of my family.

374
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,000
Yeah, exactly.

375
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,000
Exactly.

376
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000
It's ridiculous.

377
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,000
It is.

378
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000
But yes, needless to say, I think that anyway, we've all had experiences there.

379
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:57,000
We've had experiences there where a son's mother did not like us because nobody's going to be good enough for us.

380
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,000
Yeah.

381
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Or them, you know, nobody's going to be good enough for them.

382
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Nobody's going to be good enough for her.

383
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:07,000
Well, I'm anxious to, to hear how his mom felt about this in the end of the story.

384
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Yeah.

385
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Chris would experience a profound sense of loss after the wedding and went through a very deep depression after they got married.

386
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
Sense of loss from his parents?

387
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Yes.

388
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Because his parents and sister did not attend and seemingly wanted nothing to do with their relationship.

389
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,000
And do you think that they told him that at all before they got married?

390
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000
I'm sure they might have told him that.

391
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000
That he wasn't, that they weren't showing them?

392
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,000
No, that he, they didn't approve.

393
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,000
Oh yeah.

394
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,000
I mean, they had always kind of had a bit of tension, but it was almost like them not coming to the wedding was like,

395
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,000
oh, we don't really give a shit about what you're doing in your life.

396
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Yeah.

397
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:51,000
So it's, I can imagine a conversation, Shanann being with Chris and being like, well, clearly your parents didn't even give a shit to like fucking show up to the wedding.

398
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Yeah.

399
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,000
So, you know, it just creates more tension.

400
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Sorry, I would.

401
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,000
Just creates more.

402
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,000
And then for him to feel like, and again, you told me you were going to give me the benefit of the doubt in this episode.

403
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000
I'm trying.

404
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:11,000
For him to feel stuck in the middle of that, to be like, I want a connection with my family and I want them to be able to love my wife the way that I love my life.

405
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,000
No, that's hard for sure.

406
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000
That's yeah.

407
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:20,000
During this depression, Chris began to not take care of himself like he had been at the beginning of Shanann and his relationship.

408
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:26,000
He actually began to gain a lot of weight due to a lack of a healthy lifestyle.

409
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
I sneezed.

410
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,000
Sorry.

411
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,000
You sneezed?

412
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,000
I sneezed very quietly and my whole chair shook.

413
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:41,000
At his highest weight, he actually weighed about 250, which would be considered obese at his height of 511.

414
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,000
Yeah, I was going to say how tall is he.

415
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Deeply.

416
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Despite all of this, Chris was excelling in his career and with a strained relationship with his family, considered moving him and his wife to Colorado after being offered a new position with the Anadarko Petroleum Company.

417
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000
Okay.

418
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Shanann was able to find work at a call center that worked with a children's hospital.

419
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000
I think it was an Aurora.

420
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:12,000
Within three to four months of the move, something that happened that would change the course of their lives forever.

421
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000
Who saw it coming, folks?

422
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,000
If you're a loyal listener, then you know that she says that almost every episode.

423
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000
So true.

424
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,000
So Shanann actually found out that she was pregnant.

425
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Oh.

426
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,000
This was a shock as the couple believed that they could not conceive, especially just because she was told that in her lupus.

427
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Yeah.

428
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:37,000
They would name their daughter Bella Marie Watts and she would be born in Frederick, Colorado on December 17th, 2013.

429
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:44,000
Around this time, the family had purchased a five bedroom home as they intended to expand their family over the years to come.

430
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:53,000
This, however, would put more strain on Chris's relationship with his family as they believed that this was all Shanann's doing, the moving and the baby.

431
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Yeah, she did that.

432
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000
She did that on purpose.

433
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Yeah.

434
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000
To like lock him down.

435
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Such a catch.

436
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Just glad about not being able to get pregnant.

437
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,000
She did that.

438
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,000
She just did that so that, yeah, for sure.

439
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
They probably did think that.

440
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,000
So of course, yeah, furthermore, they have a baby and so in their minds, they're never getting their son back.

441
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
They're like, oh, he just was stolen to Colorado.

442
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
How dare he have a family of his own.

443
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000
And a successful career.

444
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Of course, Shanann missed her family and friends too, but Shanann had this to say about the decision.

445
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:30,000
Colorado makes me feel like it's drama free. It's a drama free life. Colorado is just amazing. Absolutely amazing.

446
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000
But that's how I feel. I feel at peace here in Colorado.

447
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,000
And everyone wonders why we moved to Colorado because I do. I feel at peace here.

448
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,000
I don't know how to explain it and I don't know how to describe it.

449
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,000
I always feel at peace in Colorado.

450
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,000
It's really nice.

451
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,000
I like Colorado.

452
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,000
I'm excited to go to Dickey, Colorado.

453
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,000
I cannot wait to go to Denver.

454
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,000
Everyone come see us in Denver next July. It's the next podcast festival.

455
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:59,000
It's the 12th through the 14th and it's also kind of his birthday that we get in.

456
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:05,000
So we're going to be in Denver at the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival.

457
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,000
2.0.

458
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
2.0.

459
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
I was thinking about it today. Can you believe it's been three months since we went?

460
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,000
No.

461
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,000
It's fucking wild.

462
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,000
That is bizarre.

463
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,000
July in Denver is going to be really pretty.

464
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
It's beautiful. It's fucking hot though.

465
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Back to the story.

466
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000
The couple would continue to work and live their Colorado dream.

467
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,000
And by 2015, the couple would be expecting their second daughter Celeste Catherine Waps.

468
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000
Shanann's dedication to her children would take precedence over everything.

469
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Again, as she thought that she could not have children.

470
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,000
And before Cece was born, Shanann was making steps to become a stay-at-home mom.

471
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000
Compounding this, the family found that Bella had food sensitivities and allergies.

472
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:52,000
So I can imagine that a parent wanting to be around their kids all the time, also to ensure what they eat isn't going to harm them.

473
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000
I think there were several things, but definitely one of the main ones was peanuts.

474
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000
That's scary.

475
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Yeah, peanut allergies are no fucking joke.

476
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,000
No, not a joke.

477
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Peanut allergies and like bee allergies.

478
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Those are like awful. They're not just like a little cough cough.

479
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,000
I have a friend that's like deathly allergic to tree nuts and every time we talk shit, I'm like,

480
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
oh, you took a lot of shit for a guy that could be killed by a fucking pecan.

481
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Eat one of these fucking cookies.

482
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000
A loud nut.

483
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
A pan nut.

484
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Say, what is his name?

485
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000
Stop name it.

486
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Hollampeppa, you stop naming nuts.

487
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
I don't know what that is.

488
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Best in show.

489
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,000
I don't know what that is.

490
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000
Oh my gosh.

491
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,000
I was going to say I don't know what that is.

492
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000
I don't know what that is.

493
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000
I was like, best Christopher, guess who we ever...fight me.

494
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000
So Shanann would ultimately quit her job.

495
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:43,000
And although this was likely not okay with Chris, he certainly didn't voice any objections about the change of household income.

496
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Of course not.

497
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Shanann would come to a full understanding of the financial situation that the family was facing when the Watts were forced to file for bankruptcy in 2015, June 2015.

498
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Okay.

499
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:04,000
From biography.com, quote, with a combined income of $90,000 in 2014, in addition to credit card debt, student loans, and medical bills,

500
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:16,000
the couple filed for bankruptcy in June 2015, stating that their $3,000 mortgage and $600 car payments took up most of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.

501
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Additionally, their homeowners association sued them for unpaid HOA fees, end quote.

502
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
So clearly this wasn't working out here.

503
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Yeah.

504
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Additionally, it was reported that the couple still owed about 70K on the home loan.

505
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Ah.

506
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Just one month later, they would welcome their second child, Cece, or Celeste.

507
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:43,000
The family tried to put their financial woes behind them, and Shanann, the woman of course who wants it all because she's just like me.

508
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,000
She wants it all.

509
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:51,000
She began working at home through a multi-level marketing company specifically working with a product called Thrive from a company called Level.

510
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,000
This Thrive is kind of like a supplement and vitamin protein mix or something like that.

511
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Through this opportunity, Shanann found a great group of people who were like-minded in their pursuit of becoming self-sufficient.

512
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Nicole Atkinson was another participant of this Thrive group, and she and Shanann quickly became friends.

513
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:14,000
Shanann would begin to go live on social media in order to push products and let people into her personal life.

514
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,000
She would often tell stories of how she and Chris met, their struggles, and their successes.

515
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Sometimes she would have the girls cooking in the kitchen with her, getting ready for the holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas,

516
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000
and so on and so forth, playing with the dogs.

517
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,000
She would also document her and eventually Chris' health journey.

518
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:39,000
Chris began to work out, eat better, and would ultimately lose 75 pounds weighing in at, I think, 175-ish.

519
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000
On one occasion, Shanann expressed in a video, quote,

520
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:55,000
My husband, who was very shy and bashful, he's an introvert. He did whatever I told him to do. My husband is very pleasing, so I spoke to him and I told him to try some of the Thrive products, and he did. No questions asked. He just took it.

521
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:01,000
He did what I told him because he's all like, happy wife, happy life kind of a thing, end quote.

522
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:19,000
I don't like that quote. I don't think it's a good quote, happy wife, happy life. I don't think I've ever liked that. I feel like that's very, I don't know, like I feel like in a relationship there should be a partnership.

523
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:27,000
And I get what she's saying. She's saying like he's that way, but he enjoys it, is what she's saying, even though he probably might not.

524
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:41,000
But Chris is introverted. He doesn't speak up for himself. He doesn't have balls. And I think maybe that's kind of what it is, is like maybe Cindy Watts is that way, like very domineering over Chris.

525
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:48,000
And that's why Chris found that likeness in Shanann, but it's probably why Cindy and Shanann don't get along because they're the same fucking person.

526
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Yeah, exactly.

527
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
Not the same person, but...

528
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Yeah, they have similar strongheadedness.

529
00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:01,000
They certainly do. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Total foreshadowing for a little bit from now.

530
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Even things with Chris's family seemed to start getting better. After the birth of Cece, the Watts family began to make efforts in reconnecting in order to be a part of Bella and Cece's life.

531
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:17,000
In June of 2018, Shanann would have revealed to Chris that she was pregnant with their third child.

532
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Perhaps this was surprising to him as the couple had not been getting along at this time. Doesn't mean that they weren't having sex, but still.

533
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Shanann had been expressing to her friends that she was feeling some distance from Chris. She told Nicole Atkinson that the only other time that she had experienced this feeling was right after they had been married, when Chris went through his deep depression.

534
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Determined to keep their marriage afloat, Shanann made the decision to communicate to Chris that she was there to support him in anything that he needed. Maybe he can come out of this again with some extra love and recognition.

535
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,000
Mm-hmm.

536
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:59,000
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537
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:12,000
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538
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,000
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539
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:33,000
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540
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:49,000
That June, Father's Day came around, and Shanann posted a very personal Happy Father's Day post for Chris, ensuring that he would see that she was trying to be a good and loyal wife during this tough time for Chris.

541
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,000
However, this extra support and attention was met with a lot of resistance from Chris.

542
00:32:53,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Shanann told her friends that regularly Chris denied sexual advances or seemingly anything that had to do with romance between her and Chris.

543
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Chris claimed that the reason that he was under so much stress was due to the relationship or lack thereof between Shanann and Chris's family.

544
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:23,000
However, unbeknownst to Shanann, around the time that Shanann told Chris that she was pregnant with their third child, Chris would meet a co-worker that would change the course of this life forever.

545
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Nicole Kissinger worked at Annadarko Petroleum with Chris in the Environmental Department, so not to be confused with Nicole Atkinson, who's Shanann's friend.

546
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:44,000
One day, when Nicole headed into the break room there, she was met with Chris, who was at the time not wearing a wedding ring, which is interesting.

547
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:55,000
She had heard that he was at least a father, so Chris admitted that yes, he was married and he did have two little girls, but that he and his wife Shanann had separated and they were in the process of getting divorced.

548
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
That's what they all say.

549
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000
The classic, right?

550
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000
Yeah.

551
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,000
It's all this time.

552
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Chris seemed like a great dad, and Nicole and him hit it off almost instantly.

553
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,000
He said that when he met Nicole, she, quote, took my brother away.

554
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Oh, what quote?

555
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,000
Fuck ever, Chris.

556
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:20,000
She said, quote, he made me believe that he was doing all of the things a rational and good father, rational man and good father would do, end quote.

557
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:31,000
The two would start a physical relationship within a month of seeing each other, and during that time, they were seeing each other for almost, they were seeing each other almost every day of the week, like four or five days a week.

558
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Jesus.

559
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:38,000
For like, yeah, from like the get, they were just like, oh, this is it, this is like a, this is maybe a forever thing.

560
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,000
So it's not that he doesn't want to have sex, he just doesn't want to have sex with Shanann.

561
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Or maybe, I don't know, there's some people that think that way though, like they feel like if they're cheating, and they're only sexually active with one of those people, like maybe the person you're cheating on or whatever, they won't have sex with their wife.

562
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Like it's almost like this weird, sick monogamous thing.

563
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Yeah.

564
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,000
You know what I mean?

565
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,000
I mean, it's gross anyways.

566
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Yeah.

567
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,000
It's like, ew, gross, monogamy.

568
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Ew.

569
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,000
Ew.

570
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,000
So good.

571
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,000
So Chris seemed to be all in.

572
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:18,000
Nicole, however, felt that the relationship was escalating in a way that was somewhat concerning to her.

573
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:25,000
After all, he is still in the divorce process, and he had two little girls that needed their lives to be adjusted because of the divorce.

574
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:34,000
Introducing a new woman may be unsettling for the kids, and that's where she seemed like this was heading, this eventually I'm going to have to meet his daughters.

575
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Yeah.

576
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
And it was just too fast for her.

577
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:44,000
Meanwhile, in an effort to reconnect with Chris's family, and the good fucking wife and woman this woman is,

578
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Shanann planned to take the girls on a trip to visit her and Chris's family in North Carolina.

579
00:35:50,000 --> 00:36:02,000
So about early July, the family agreed, or late June, the family agreed that Shanann would take the girls to North Carolina for an entire six weeks while Chris stayed behind to work for five weeks.

580
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,000
And then he would fly up to North Carolina for the last week that they'd be there.

581
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Okay.

582
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,000
He called up Nicole to tell her the good news.

583
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,000
His divorce had been finalized, and Shanann had taken the girls to North Carolina where she would ultimately stay.

584
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,000
Oh my god.

585
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:27,000
After the five glorious weeks that they'd spent together, he would fly to North Carolina to bring his girls back for himself, and Shanann would just stay behind.

586
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:36,000
The night before Shanann, Bella, and Cece would fly out, Shanann asked Chris directly if he was having an affair to which he denied.

587
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Fucking bastard.

588
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000
Well, like, she knows, clearly.

589
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,000
She's like, yeah, like, you're having an affair. Just tell me.

590
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,000
Yeah.

591
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,000
You're a terrible liar.

592
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,000
And we've all seen the video, folks.

593
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,000
We've all seen the footage.

594
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,000
He's a terrible liar.

595
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,000
He's a bad liar.

596
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,000
He's so bad.

597
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Ugh.

598
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:57,000
Shanann told a friend that she didn't really believe him, but that she felt she had no other choice but to keep her family together.

599
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,000
Yeah.

600
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,000
And that maybe gaining some distance for five weeks would be good for them.

601
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,000
During the five weeks that Chris and Nicole were together, they vacationed three times.

602
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,000
Oh my god.

603
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,000
Like, with what money, though?

604
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
No, yeah, her, probably Shanann's.

605
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,000
Either Shanann's money or Nicole's money.

606
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Also during this time, Shanann would find out that the couple were expecting a boy.

607
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,000
A boy in which they had previously agreed would be called Nico Lee.

608
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,000
While in North Carolina, all hell broke loose when visiting Cindy and Ronnie.

609
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,000
It was said by Shanann that Cindy offered the girls ice cream.

610
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Cindy, either on purpose or not, offered ice cream that had peanuts in it to Bella.

611
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Yeah.

612
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Oh my god.

613
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,000
Shanann, understandably upset, confronts the grandparents about this.

614
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Shanann writes to Chris through text, and this is likely the short version, but I'm going to read it.

615
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Let me adjust my legs here.

616
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,000
Shanann takes another opportunity at this time to express other concerns of hers.

617
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,000
Quote, the truth came out last night.

618
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,000
I didn't create any dagger between you and your dad.

619
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,000
That was done by your mom and your dad.

620
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,000
And I won't change a thing.

621
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:15,000
My daughter's life is way more important, and you better believe that when I wanted to say a whole lot more than I did.

622
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
But I was being the bigger person and protecting Bella.

623
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,000
I didn't tell your dad not to come to the party.

624
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,000
I didn't tell him not to text or call your daughter on her birthday.

625
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,000
And I didn't tell him to start acting like he only has two grandkids instead of four.

626
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000
I didn't block your family on Facebook, he did.

627
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000
Myself and your kids have nothing to say to them.

628
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,000
They do.

629
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,000
They owe your kids their life.

630
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Your parents' home isn't a safe zone.

631
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Your mom isn't safe.

632
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:47,000
You can let them tell you what you want, but I didn't tell anyone to stop loving your kids or to stop acting like it.

633
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,000
He did that, not me.

634
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,000
You can't believe that I created this dagger, but you can't.

635
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,000
You can believe that I created this dagger, but I didn't do that.

636
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,000
I stood up for our kids.

637
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,000
I advocated and protected our children.

638
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,000
I don't ever want to hear, I'm sorry I killed your kids because I was stupid.

639
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,000
That would kill me.

640
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,000
These kids are my world and I have to protect them from evil of the world.

641
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,000
I shouldn't have to protect them from evil family.

642
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Our kids deserve the same love and attention the other kids get.

643
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,000
Nothing less.

644
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,000
I'm not accepting I'm sorry from your mom because she doesn't mean it and she knew what she was doing.

645
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,000
I made it very clear not to eat around Celeste because I don't understand.

646
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,000
She doesn't understand why before that happened.

647
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,000
She's evil and willing to risk your daughter's life to get under my skin.

648
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,000
You and your dad are no different if you're okay with her behavior.

649
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000
There's nothing wrong with me and I'm not crazy.

650
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,000
I just love my kids way too much.

651
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,000
From that day that I left, you never said that I missed you before I said it.

652
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Something changed when I left.

653
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,000
You may be happier alone and that's fine.

654
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,000
You can be alone.

655
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,000
This pregnancy you have failed to acknowledge it or acknowledge how I'm feeling.

656
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,000
The first trimester is the scariest and most dangerous yet.

657
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,000
We can lose this baby at any point to delivery.

658
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,000
I'm not going to be treated this way for having the balls to protect our family and our kids.

659
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:08,000
I should get a gold medal for handling it the way that I did because I had a lot of choice words that I wanted to say to her and your dad for his stupidity.

660
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,000
No one stands up to your mom and your dad for that.

661
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,000
He's just as guilty by not doing anything.

662
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,000
I have nothing to do with him.

663
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Stop sharing memories of his grandkids.

664
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Why does he have to what does that have to do with me?

665
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,000
They're fucking with our kids feelings and I'm not okay with that.

666
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,000
I am their mother and I won't protect them.

667
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000
I have enough to worry about with the world out there.

668
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,000
I'm not going to worry about family.

669
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
I'll just remove it and quote.

670
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,000
Damn.

671
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,000
She was not happy.

672
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Yeah.

673
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,000
I wouldn't be either.

674
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,000
No, I wouldn't be either.

675
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Like it's not a fucking secret that my daughter has a peanut allergy.

676
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,000
Right.

677
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,000
Or any allergies.

678
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,000
Yeah, exactly.

679
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,000
She's said it multiple times on the YouTube videos when they're cooking together and stuff.

680
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,000
She's like, well, we're making these because Bella needs these specific ones because she can't have certain things.

681
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:57,000
So after this fallout, the WAPS family did not attend CZ's third birthday, which was in the time that they were staying there.

682
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Needless to say, things were a little rocky by July 31st when Chris would kiss his new lover goodbye and hop on a plane headed for North Carolina.

683
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:15,000
There's actually a video of them picking him up at the airport and like the girls like run to him and like all that stuff, but he had literally just in the last like five weeks.

684
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,000
Yeah.

685
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,000
With his girlfriend.

686
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Jesus.

687
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
How can you just like do that and just like pretend like everything is normal?

688
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,000
That you think that you're like going to get away with it.

689
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,000
Like you think you're like, it's the best on narcissism.

690
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,000
Yeah.

691
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000
You think that no one's going to fucking know you're going to outsmart everybody.

692
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,000
Yeah, you're just the smartest person alive.

693
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:41,000
Chris probably visited with his parents, but by all accounts, Shanae did not take the opportunity to hang out with the WAPS family and decided to spend more time with her family instead.

694
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,000
During this last week in North Carolina, Shanae mysteriously got sick.

695
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:54,000
She began to feel disoriented and threw up a few times and unbeknownst to Shanae, Chris had drugged Shanae with Oxycontin.

696
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,000
What?

697
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
In an effort to force an abortion on Shanae.

698
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,000
Oh my God, that's horrendous.

699
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:10,000
This was apparently stated by Chris at some point during an exchange with a pen pal after he was in prison, but the details have never been confirmed and he would later deny that he ever said that.

700
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,000
Oh my gosh.

701
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,000
So you didn't say that?

702
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:19,000
It would make sense though, because he told Nicole, I'm just bringing the kids back.

703
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,000
That's true.

704
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,000
I think he intended to kill her while he was in North Carolina.

705
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Yeah, I mean that makes sense.

706
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,000
He's like, she's going to stay.

707
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,000
She's going to stay for a minute.

708
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,000
Yeah, she's staying in North Carolina.

709
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,000
Oh.

710
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,000
Either way, the family was to return home after the week of being together in North Carolina.

711
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:44,000
And furthermore, Shanae had planned on being out of town for business the next weekend, which was the 9th through the 12th.

712
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000
I think they got back on like the 7th or something.

713
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Of July?

714
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,000
Of August.

715
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,000
Oh.

716
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000
So yeah, they left for North Carolina.

717
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:56,000
I want to say like I said that last week of June or the first week of July, and they were there for six weeks.

718
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,000
So that's essentially all of July.

719
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,000
And then yeah, so they think they got back like I said on the 7th.

720
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:07,000
And then which was, see the 9th I think was a Thursday.

721
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,000
So they would have been back on like Monday or Tuesday.

722
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,000
And then Thursday she would go out of town.

723
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Sorry.

724
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,000
So Shanae leaves for the trip with her co-worker and friend Nicole Atkinson.

725
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,000
Another instance of Shanae feeling sick occurred around the same week.

726
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,000
So a doctor's appointment was then set for Monday the 13th, which would have been a Monday.

727
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,000
I said a Monday.

728
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,000
So that would be the day after that Shanae would return from her trip.

729
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:41,000
While Shanae was away, Chris actually hired a babysitter one night in order to go out with Nicole Kessinger.

730
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Oh my God.

731
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,000
He told Shanae he was going to a baseball game with co-workers.

732
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,000
A correspondence between Shanae and a friend writes,

733
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,000
He hasn't responded.

734
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,000
That's hard.

735
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,000
I don't want to have this baby.

736
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,000
What?

737
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,000
I can't do this alone with three kids and I'm not happy.

738
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000
This baby was made with love and that's what's happening.

739
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,000
It's temporary.

740
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,000
You guys love each other.

741
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,000
You guys will be able to overcome this.

742
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,000
I asked again because he ignored me and he just said,

743
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,000
No, I can't do this.

744
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,000
He's a good father and you know that he loves you to pieces.

745
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,000
I can't fight alone.

746
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
I've been fighting for eight years.

747
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
This started eight years ago when we started dating.

748
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,000
His mom and his sister have been destroying us since.

749
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,000
Just don't let them win.

750
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,000
This is the worst it's gotten and I can't do this.

751
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,000
I can't find fight my own husband and he's completely okay with this.

752
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Never give up and never surrender.

753
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,000
I don't have it any these last six weeks have been hell.

754
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,000
You'll be surprised what people can do.

755
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
You guys are going to go back to Colorado.

756
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,000
Things will calm down.

757
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Mama, just give it some time.

758
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:48,000
I'm 14 weeks and he hasn't once touched my belly or asked how my pregnancy is going.

759
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,000
That just adds to this.

760
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,000
He wanted this pregnancy.

761
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,000
She later adds,

762
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000
I canceled the 40 ultrasound and the gender reveal party.

763
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,000
I've lost all excitement.

764
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,000
I just want to sleep and cry.

765
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,000
Oh, so sad.

766
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,000
After a long flight home,

767
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:09,000
Shanann Watts arrives at home on August 13th at about two in the morning.

768
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,000
Nicole Atkinson drove the 15 week pregnant Shanann home that night

769
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000
and the two had discussed Shanann's doctor's appointment,

770
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,000
which was scheduled at 9am the next morning.

771
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,000
Nicole encouraged Shanann to get some good sleep

772
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,000
and to let her know she needed a ride in the morning for her appointment.

773
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Shanann agreed and Nicole watched as Shanann headed up the few steps

774
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,000
towards the front door and entered the Watts family home.

775
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,000
Shanann's phone began buzzing at around 8.30 in the morning.

776
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,000
It went to voicemail.

777
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,000
Another call shortly after, another voicemail.

778
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,000
A third call was made by Nicole Atkinson,

779
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,000
who had expected to hear back from Shanann

780
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,000
to let her know if she needed a ride to her doctor's appointment.

781
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,000
At 8.55am, Nicole texted Shanann,

782
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,000
quote, just wanted to see if you were okay, end quote.

783
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,000
At 9.21, Nicole texts again, quote,

784
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000
let me know how your appointment goes, end quote.

785
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000
As the morning goes on, Nicole becomes intensely concerned about Shanann,

786
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:13,000
as Shanann was due to be at a work meeting after her scheduled doctor's appointment.

787
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,000
Furthermore, Nicole was horrified when she called the doctor's office herself

788
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,000
and told her that Shanann had not been to that appointment that morning.

789
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,000
At 11.46am, Nicole texts Shanann one last time, quote,

790
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,000
I'm very worried about you, I'm coming to your house, end quote.

791
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,000
Nicole then takes her teenage son and rushes over to the Watts residence.

792
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,000
She looks into the garage and sees Shanann's vehicle,

793
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,000
which still contained two car seats.

794
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,000
She furiously knocks on the door but is met with silence.

795
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
She then phones the police.

796
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,000
The police arrive on the scene and although they cannot enter the residence

797
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,000
without the homeowner's consent, which would be Chris,

798
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000
the officers look around the property.

799
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,000
All of this is caught on body cam and the video is out there.

800
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,000
Chris was contacted by Nicole and rushed home immediately.

801
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,000
Previously, he had been ignoring her phone calls,

802
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,000
but when he learned the police were there, he left work and rushed to the house.

803
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Oh, fucking course he did.

804
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,000
Nicole had called Shanann's mother to see if she had heard from her daughter

805
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,000
and after contacting Sandra Ruchek, Sandra called Chris to ask about Shanann.

806
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,000
He told Sandra, Shanann's mom, that she was just at a girlfriend's house for the day.

807
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:28,000
So again, this was related to Nicole by Sandra who called bullshit.

808
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,000
She's like, no, she had a doctor's appointment and she was supposed to get this meeting

809
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,000
and no, she's not at a girlfriend's house.

810
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
She's like, I'm the girlfriend and she's not in my house.

811
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Yeah, exactly.

812
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Nicole found that Shanann had seemingly left behind not just her own medication,

813
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:48,000
but the girl's medications as well, which by now we know Shanann, she would never do.

814
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,000
The girls' blankets were missing from their beds

815
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,000
and they were also in the middle of the night.

816
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,000
Nicole found that Shanann had left behind her own medication

817
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,000
and she was supposed to be in the middle of the night.

818
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,000
So she was almost in a situation where she was supposed to be in the middle of the night.

819
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,000
But she never did. The girls' blankets were missing from their beds,

820
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,000
which Chris acknowledged they never go anywhere without.

821
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,000
Shanann's phone seemed to be dead.

822
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,000
However, when it was plugged in it was noted that it had simply been turned off.

823
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Ew, oh my God, ew.

824
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Literally in front of Nikki and her son.

825
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,000
And she's seeing this.

826
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000
And you can see it in Nicole's face.

827
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,000
She is looking at this man like you, motherfucker.

828
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000
Yeah, like what the fuck did you do?

829
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,000
And he's sweating bullets the whole fucking time.

830
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,000
And he's not a good liar.

831
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,000
He's just like, oh, I found her wedding ring by the nightstand.

832
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,000
Like it's sad.

833
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,000
And it's just like, yeah, he's like, oh, she must have left me.

834
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,000
It's the way he's selling it. Oh, it's so ugly.

835
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Another clue came from the form of a neighbor's camera.

836
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Came from the form. Came in the form.

837
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,000
The neighbor offered the officer to view the last night's footage,

838
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:08,000
which would be like, you know, from two when she arrived home till Chris left in the morning.

839
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,000
The camera captured at about 5.15 in the morning, Chris going out to his truck,

840
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,000
which was usually parked across the street as to not block Shanann's car in the garage.

841
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,000
It was a one car garage.

842
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:24,000
He would get into his truck and then back the truck up into the driveway.

843
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Great.

844
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,000
Chris stated that he simply needed to load some tools into the truck for his day of work.

845
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,000
Chris can then be seen leaving the driveway.

846
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:41,000
After the three of them, it's the three of them, I think it's like the officer, the neighbor,

847
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,000
and Chris all watch the footage together.

848
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,000
And again, he's sweating bullets and like, oh, I had to load some, like a screwdriver, you know, or something.

849
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,000
Trying to explain it away.

850
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:58,000
So then Chris decided to, he leaves the neighbor's house so that the officer could talk to the neighbor.

851
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,000
The neighbor noted that Chris was not acting like himself at all,

852
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,000
because the usually calm and quiet man was very fidgety and talkative.

853
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,000
I remember this interview.

854
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,000
And it's so true.

855
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,000
Like Chris leaves and the guy's like, bro, no, it's that guy.

856
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,000
He's hiding something.

857
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,000
He's like, he just fucking see that.

858
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,000
He's like, no.

859
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,000
He said he's not, he's not acting like himself at all.

860
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,000
I mean, he's like, beat red.

861
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:26,000
Imagine like being that neighbor and standing there and listening to Chris explain this, like knowing he did something.

862
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,000
He's fucking lying.

863
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,000
He knows something.

864
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,000
He's a terrible liar.

865
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,000
And being probably terrified for your life.

866
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,000
Thankfully, the police officer is there.

867
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,000
Right.

868
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,000
By this time, more officers began to arrive on scene to help search for Shinnan, Bella, and CeCe.

869
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:46,000
The neighborhood was canvassed and no one reported any suspicious vehicles or persons in the area between the time that Chris left for work

870
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,000
and the time that the police showed up.

871
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,000
Because he's the perpetrator.

872
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,000
Because he's not suspicious.

873
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,000
He lives there.

874
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Yeah.

875
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:04,000
The first day of searching was unsuccessful and now the parents of Shinnan and Chris were on flights headed to Colorado to aid of the search of Shinnan and the kids.

876
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:14,000
A bullet was put out for Shinnan and the girls and by the next day, Chris was approached to do a TV interview for local news in order to spread the word about his missing family.

877
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Let me guess, he passed with flying colors and he looked great.

878
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,000
An interview?

879
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,000
Yeah.

880
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,000
Have you seen the interview?

881
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,000
Yes.

882
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Oh my word.

883
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:34,000
His pleas were met with speculation as the man who was missing not only his wife but two daughters could be seen with his arms crossed, legs spread in a prepared stance, and swaying from left to right as he spoke.

884
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,000
He's like, I don't know.

885
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,000
I just, I just, I don't know.

886
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,000
If you guys are listening, just come home.

887
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,000
Like, direct quote.

888
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,000
Well, almost.

889
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:48,000
Chris can be quoted by saying quote, Shinnan, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back.

890
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,000
Like, if somebody has her, just please bring her back.

891
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
I need to see everybody.

892
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000
I need to see everybody again.

893
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,000
This house is not complete without anybody here.

894
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,000
Please bring them back.

895
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,000
End quote.

896
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,000
Fucking.

897
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:06,000
Cole Kessinger with knife, not find out that Chris was still married until the news report broke.

898
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,000
Yep.

899
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,000
Oh, sounds like Amber Fry.

900
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,000
Yeah, it does.

901
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,000
Ugh.

902
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:16,000
In the news interview, Chris admitted that the two had had a quote, emotional argument

903
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,000
before he headed off to work that morning.

904
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,000
Oh.

905
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,000
Well, we didn't have a fight.

906
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000
It was an emotional argument.

907
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,000
Yeah.

908
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,000
We just disagreed on some things.

909
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,000
It was an emotional discussion.

910
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,000
It was really emotional.

911
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Yeah, it was just really emotional for me.

912
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,000
By the next day, the FBI had gotten involved in the search.

913
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,000
Yeah.

914
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:37,000
They requested that Chris come in to be interviewed again regarding the disappearance of his family.

915
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,000
Upon hearing that his son was being interviewed by the FBI, Ronnie Watts headed to the station

916
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,000
to support his son.

917
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Ronnie was asked some questions by detectives regarding the relationship his son shared with

918
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Shanann.

919
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,000
And of course, Ronnie would say that Shanann was a difficult woman and that the family did

920
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,000
have its troubles, but doubted that his son was capable of hurting anyone, especially his

921
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,000
own family.

922
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,000
After all, he literally did everything for Shanann.

923
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,000
Yeah.

924
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:08,000
Chris would eventually agree to a light detector test in which he failed.

925
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,000
Sorry, that's not funny.

926
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,000
But that's the narcissism again.

927
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,000
Yeah.

928
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,000
Oh, I can beat this.

929
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,000
It's just a fucking stupid machine.

930
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,000
Just a machine.

931
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Just a machine.

932
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,000
Just a machine.

933
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,000
Just a machine.

934
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Just a machine.

935
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,000
Just a machine.

936
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,500
Confronted with this evidence, detectives put a little bit more heat on Chris.

937
00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:28,300
He further admitted that he had confessed to Shanann that night that he was having an

938
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:30,280
affair with a co-worker.

939
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,760
But that he said, although the argument was explosive, he did leave the conversation to

940
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,960
head to work.

941
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:42,720
Chris would still not tell detectives where Shanann, Bella, and Celeste were after all

942
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:43,720
of this.

943
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:44,720
Yeah.

944
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:45,720
Even after the polygraph.

945
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:47,220
No, of course not.

946
00:53:47,220 --> 00:53:52,080
Running out of options, detectives decided to try a new tactic by inviting Ronnie Watts

947
00:53:52,080 --> 00:54:00,240
into the room with Chris and leaving the two alone to talk, just father and son.

948
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:06,000
When asked multiple times to just come clean by his father, Chris came out and said, quote,

949
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,760
she smothered them, end quote.

950
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,760
I can't fucking stand that.

951
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:12,760
Do you not know that?

952
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,760
But he tried to play on the side.

953
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:14,760
I did know that.

954
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,120
It's just every time I hear it, it pisses me off even more.

955
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,120
Sorry.

956
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:23,240
Ronnie asked, she smothered them, so she killed them, end quote.

957
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:25,080
Chris said, quote, they were both blue.

958
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,320
I just freaked out and did the same thing to her, end quote.

959
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:30,760
What the fuck ever, dude?

960
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Beside himself, Ronnie could only utter good God Almighty Son as he reached out for his

961
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,600
hand across the interview table.

962
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,920
Now that police knew that Chris likely had the information of the whereabouts of Shanann,

963
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:48,520
Bella, and Celeste, that was their next priority, which was to find them.

964
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,840
Chris told investigators the location of where the bodies of Shanann, Bella, and Celeste could

965
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,080
be found.

966
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,960
He said that they could be located at a work site on the company property.

967
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,560
This would be charged with three counts of first degree murder.

968
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,920
It would not be until Chris was convicted of all three murders of Shanann, Bella, and

969
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:13,600
Celeste, two counts of murder of a child under 12, unlawful termination of a pregnancy, and

970
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,000
three counts of tampering with deceased bodies, that he confessed to what actually happened

971
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,800
in the morning of August 13th, 2018.

972
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,880
When Chris got up that morning to head to work, he told Shanann that he was having an

973
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:31,960
affair with Nicole Kessinger, and that he had planned on filing for divorce.

974
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,240
Shanann then threatened Chris with taking the children away from him.

975
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,680
He then strangled Shanann while she was sitting up in bed.

976
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:43,400
He began to wrap Shanann's body when four-year-old Bella came into the master bedroom and asked

977
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,160
what's wrong with mommy.

978
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,360
He then loaded Shanann's body into the bed of his truck.

979
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,680
He took the girls and wrapped them in their blankets, packing them into the truck together.

980
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,760
He said that the girls fell asleep on the way to the work site.

981
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,920
This is where Chris dug a shallow grave for Shanann and his unborn son, Nico.

982
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,320
Chris then returned to the truck where he then took the life of three-year-old Celeste

983
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,640
in front of four-year-old Bella.

984
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:13,720
He took Celeste's lifeless body and placed it into a massive crude oil tank that sat

985
00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:17,760
at the site, just yards away from her mother, Shanann.

986
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:23,000
When Chris went back to the truck for four-year-old Bella, she asked her father, is the same thing

987
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,440
gonna happen to Mia Cece?

988
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:31,600
Chris smothered Bella and placed her, too, in a separate oil tank than her sister.

989
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,880
Chris pleaded guilty to all counts, and Chris was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences

990
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:40,600
without the possibility of parole plus 84 years.

991
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,600
Like the dude's gonna die in prison.

992
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:43,600
Thank God.

993
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:48,800
Shanann, Bella, and Celeste are buried at Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Pinehurst, North

994
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:54,360
Carolina, so they're buried at home, not in Colorado.

995
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Their graves are never without fresh flowers, teddy bears, and letters to them from their

996
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,440
and their family from people all over the country who give their condolences to the

997
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,880
four wonderful lives lost to a man who is honestly too chicken shit to do the right

998
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:07,880
thing.

999
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:08,880
Yeah, absolutely.

1000
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:15,960
And I mean, that's like one of the things that makes me just want to like, I don't even

1001
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:22,360
know what I would do if I ever like saw that guy, but how do you listen to your daughter

1002
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,040
ask you if you're about to kill her and then you do it?

1003
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,280
Yeah, like what happened to mommy?

1004
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:29,760
Like what are you gonna do to me?

1005
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:35,240
Like how do you listen to that and not fucking check yourself and say, oh shit, what the

1006
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:36,240
fuck am I doing?

1007
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:37,240
He was just in too deep.

1008
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,120
He was a fucking pussy.

1009
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,680
The WAPS family continued to stay by Chris aside saying that they have forgiven their

1010
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,120
son for his crimes.

1011
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,680
And yeah, I think it's really interesting.

1012
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:59,920
People have said in many cases of this kind of familicide or this, you know, what do they

1013
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:00,920
call it?

1014
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:08,040
It's like a very specific term for that demographic of white male societal pressure and to make

1015
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:09,600
money and all this other stuff.

1016
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:15,200
There's a very specific term for it, but in most of those cases, the male usually ends

1017
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,440
up committing suicide.

1018
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:22,840
Like in the case of Chris Benoit, he killed his wife and his son and then ultimately himself.

1019
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:28,720
And you see that a lot in those types of cases with men that are affluent or have money struggles,

1020
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,320
white males between a certain age demographic.

1021
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:38,920
And yeah, it's just really interesting that he would choose not to unless that was his

1022
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,240
plan and then he just didn't.

1023
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,360
I don't think he would have gone to work if that was his plan.

1024
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,400
I think that he thought that he was going to get away with it because he was going to

1025
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,280
make it look like he was going to probably the text messages as proof and make it look

1026
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,880
like Shanann left him and took the kids after wedding ring and he was going to try to live

1027
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,640
happily ever after with Nicole until the same shit probably happened eventually.

1028
00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:59,640
You know, I don't know.

1029
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:05,720
And I've been trying very hard this episode to be open-minded.

1030
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:13,080
I think that narcissistic personality disorder kind of meets the mark here, but anti-social,

1031
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:18,960
I don't know how quiet he was and how kind of like he like domineering, if you will,

1032
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,200
that Shanann was in the relationship and how the neighbors even noted that he was like

1033
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:23,200
not interested in.

1034
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,840
I guess that's not really anti-social.

1035
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,160
The anti-social is just no care at all for anybody's feelings.

1036
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,280
But definitely some kind of a personality disorder.

1037
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:39,760
It's almost like people that, it's like this snap decision almost is what it sounds like.

1038
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,760
What did he, what was, and we can say it was because of financial pressure.

1039
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,000
We can say it's because of the affair.

1040
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,320
What it really was is I think he just got fed up.

1041
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:49,320
I think so too.

1042
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,960
I think that he didn't, he was like, you know, if there's this much discourse in our relationship,

1043
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:54,960
why isn't she leaving?

1044
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:55,960
Why isn't she leaving me?

1045
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:56,960
Like what am I going to do?

1046
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,360
What else can I do to get her to leave?

1047
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,520
Oh, I'll admit to the affair, then she'll pack her shit and go.

1048
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,640
But she probably, in my opinion, probably said, that's fine.

1049
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,560
I figured that's what was going on.

1050
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,040
I will work on it with you.

1051
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:18,600
And to me, I feel like that was more triggering to him than her exploding and wanting to leave.

1052
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,640
I was going to say, even though he said that she threatened to leave when he admitted the

1053
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,440
affair, because according to him, she blew up on him and said she's going to take the

1054
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:27,440
kids.

1055
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:28,440
She was going to take the kids.

1056
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:29,440
And we don't know.

1057
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:30,440
Yeah.

1058
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:31,440
You know what I mean?

1059
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:32,440
I don't know.

1060
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,680
It was like every time he would pull away.

1061
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,840
It's so funny because that's literally the beginning of their relationship.

1062
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,000
She tried to pull away and he kept chasing her.

1063
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,480
Well, the moment that she turned around and said, okay, okay, okay, I'll give you this,

1064
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,800
I want to give you this dream life, he started pulling back.

1065
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,440
That's classic narcissism though.

1066
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:56,000
I feel like it's like I want to win you over and when it's convenient for me so that I

1067
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:01,000
have whatever I need in the moment and then I'm not going to love you anymore.

1068
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,000
I never did.

1069
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:03,000
You know what I mean?

1070
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,000
For sure.

1071
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,000
That's just so awful about the kids.

1072
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,080
That breaks my heart every time I hear that story.

1073
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,080
Absolutely.

1074
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,760
You look at those little girls too and Bella looks so much like Chris and Cece looks so

1075
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:12,760
much like Shanann.

1076
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,520
It was like the two little Vems.

1077
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,760
It was, gosh, and there's sweet kids.

1078
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:24,040
And like I said, I would recommend to anybody to watch her YouTube videos.

1079
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:29,840
I think there was a YouTube channel called Shining Light and that's mostly where I watched

1080
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:36,000
Shanann's videos and it was like, like I said, it was like listening to a girlfriend or something

1081
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,960
like on the phone or doing their own live stream.

1082
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,240
I would put my wireless headset on and I'd walk around the house and I'd be doing chores

1083
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,880
while listening to Shanann talk about chores or cooking and with the kids in the background

1084
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,560
and it was surreal.

1085
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:58,200
It was surreal to watch and to really, it's just, it's almost like unbeknownst to her.

1086
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:05,520
She was documenting her life before it was taken and it just, it was, I don't say it

1087
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,600
very often but this is a case that's going to stick with me for a really long time.

1088
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,400
I mean, it has, it's stuck with me since I heard about it the first time, you know?

1089
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:13,400
Yeah.

1090
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,360
And every time I hear about it, I'm like, gosh.

1091
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:19,640
And I mean, I can hear her voice, you know, and just that image of her sitting on the

1092
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:27,080
back porch in Colorado and there's neighbors doing some yard work or something and there's

1093
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:33,040
some dogs barking and there's birds tweeting and it's just, it's like, it's more than just,

1094
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,600
this is why I want to tackle this, it's more than just Chris Watts and what Chris Watts

1095
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,080
believes and feels and acts.

1096
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:46,280
It has everything to do with Shanann and, you know, and again, we talk about this as

1097
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:52,600
a mental health podcast and usually we talk about the mental health of the perpetrator

1098
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,440
but a lot of it was us talking about Shanann's mental health too.

1099
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,440
Yeah, for sure.

1100
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,280
And yeah, absolutely.

1101
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,360
She was deserving of being recognized.

1102
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,120
Yeah, like I said at the beginning of the episode, I'm like, oh, you know, he likes

1103
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:04,840
when people do stories on him, blah, blah.

1104
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:10,760
I still, I know that's still to be true but it's an important story to share because

1105
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,640
of the people that lost their lives, you know?

1106
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,160
Yeah, for sure.

1107
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,200
Well, thanks for bringing that.

1108
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:18,600
Yeah, that was...

1109
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:24,120
Not the episode of Chris Watts, that was the episode of Shanann and Bella and Celeste

1110
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:25,120
Waps.

1111
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,120
Yeah, absolutely.

1112
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,920
Thank you guys for joining us.

1113
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:29,400
Check us out in the next couple of weeks.

1114
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:35,360
We're gonna have in December a Patreon episode and mental breakdown, or a Patreon episode

1115
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,720
and regular episode come back to back again like it was this year or this month.

1116
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,800
So you're gonna get some content and then starting up in the new year again, we're gonna

1117
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,680
go back to our regular schedule of a mental breakdown Monday and then a true crime Thursday

1118
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,000
case as well.

1119
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,200
So you get a lot more content come the new year.

1120
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:53,200
Yes.

1121
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,200
Alright, you have anything else?

1122
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:58,040
Just put your orders in folks for those shirts and those koozies.

1123
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,680
And one last thing, we did get our Spotify for podcasters wrapped and we just want to

1124
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:06,680
say thank you guys so much for all of the continued support and continued downloads.

1125
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:12,000
We saw a huge, huge, huge increase in a lot of our downloads and listens and streams and

1126
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,440
even followers and we have our top five countries.

1127
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:16,440
Do you want to hear them?

1128
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:17,440
Yeah.

1129
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,520
Okay, so our top five listeners in our top five countries, the US is number one of course

1130
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:25,960
and then it is followed by the UK and then Canada and then Australia and then Germany,

1131
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,520
which I was so hyped about.

1132
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,920
I was like, Germany, I see you Germany.

1133
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:30,920
That's awesome.

1134
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:35,080
So yeah, thank you guys so much for listening and we'll post a couple of those stats on

1135
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,640
Instagram like a bunch of people have been doing for podcasts, Spotify wrapped.

1136
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:39,640
I think that's really cool.

1137
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,320
They're already starting to make memes of it.

1138
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:42,320
They're so funny.

1139
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:43,320
Really?

1140
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,320
Yeah, it's like how many times you've cried this year or whatever.

1141
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:46,320
Oh, that's so funny.

1142
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:47,320
I love that.

1143
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,320
All right, we'll see you guys next time and we'll talk to you later.

1144
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:51,320
Yeah.

1145
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,320
Love you.

1146
01:04:52,320 --> 01:05:12,320
Bye.