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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnostia Killer. I'm Koelle and I'm kinda... oh my gosh!

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Oh, shit's already happening again! I feel like the last three episodes.

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It's just that time of year, you know? It is. You get sick all the time. The weather's changing so much.

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Especially down here. It's like we get rain. We get rain to sunshine. Freakin' humidity fog all on the same day.

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It's just we've been struggling, I think.

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I took a test yesterday. I talked to Franklin Frankie today. She said that she's dealing with a cold.

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You were dealing with a cold. Have been dealing with a cold. My son was dealing with a bunch of stuff too.

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Poor kid. He just wasn't well for an entire week and a half. Just a lot.

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It's just awful. I was telling you guys yesterday that I went to work and I have a giant cold sore on my lip, which I get every time I get sick.

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But mine get really bad. So it looks like I have a busted lip. I scratched myself in the face somehow when I was sleeping.

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So I have a scratch next to my eye. And then I'm also sick. So I literally look like I just got in a bar fight the night before.

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I look hungover and beat up. Which is not atypical. I mean, I've been in a few.

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No, no. What are the violent people? That ain't me. No, that ain't me.

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Well, hello everybody. Welcome back.

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Really quickly, our handles are at diagnosing a killer at any social media platform other than X, which is at killer diagnosis.

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You guys have been so sweet to email us regularly right now. And it's just, I know it's because of our little hiatus.

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It's adorbs. It's really adorbs. And also just to mention before I do get into some of these DMs and emails, we have a new little thing that we decided to do because of our good friend, Edlison or Lisa.

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She made us these really, really cute friendship bracelets. So we decided to make our own friendship bracelets at the request of you guys.

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I think they're like what, $5 a piece? And the order form is on our link tree. If you want to personalize one, we'll be happy to make that to you and send it.

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We have a bunch of different colors, a bunch of different phrases and stuff that you can choose from.

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Yeah, just give us kind of a base idea of what you might be looking for or a catchphrase and we will customize one for you.

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Absolutely. It'll be unique to you, friend.

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Yeah, so super quickly, I just want to mention a couple of comments that we've gotten.

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We've gotten an email and one DM from some very lovely people. So the Instagram DM is from Steph and she said,

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You too just made my life. First off, I love True Crime and just started following and listening to you guys since the follow request.

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I love your voices already, LOL, and how you tell the stories. Thank you for the follow and you have a whole new fan.

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I'm listening to you guys literally all day. I will most definitely be telling my fellow True Crime friends about you guys.

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Thanks, Steph.

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I know, it was really nice.

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It was really nice.

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I always say that I just spawned, but I really appreciate it. It's nice to find a new follower and I was telling her.

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I'm like, you know, sometimes we follow people that follow similar accounts because there's a lot of True Crime podcasts out there and it's hard to find a new one.

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Yeah.

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So putting our name out there that way helps us gain listeners that would have otherwise loved us if they had the chance to find us.

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Yeah. I think that especially after the convention, the festival, I think we really did come to an understanding that this is a community of us.

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This is a community of people and nobody's trying to steal listeners. Everybody's trying to grow listeners.

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Right?

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Absolutely.

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It's a lot of fun. I don't feel like it's super competitive.

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Yeah. I completely agree. So thanks for that lovely message, Steph.

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And we hope that you get excited when you hear your name on the episode because you've been listening to us.

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Lastly, we do have an email from a Joanna and Joanna was one of our listeners that kind of noticed that we were on a little bit of a hiatus.

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I was telling Quelle that, well, we haven't even talked about it yet.

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What we're doing moving forward. We're just talking about it over here.

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We're doing it.

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Let's talk about that.

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Go ahead and talk about it and then I'll read the email.

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So I'm sure everyone is aware or has noticed that we have cut back down on our posts per week.

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We were doing mental breakdown Mondays and then bringing you a case on Thursdays.

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So twice a week. And then you also have those bonus Patreon episodes released on the 29th of every month.

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With that being said, given that Kenna is in her master's program right now and I've been accepted to St. Mary's University starting in the spring.

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And I am currently also in school right now as well.

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Just with that, we've been very, very busy.

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We're also trying to bring you newer, deeper content like we now have a YouTube channel if nobody's seen.

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Follow us on YouTube.

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So moving forward, we have decided throughout the holiday season to give you guys a little bit of a break and us a little bit of a break.

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Mental health is very important to all of us and all of us as a community as well.

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That we are going to be posting interesting topics for our mental breakdown on our Instagram account.

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That'll be every Monday and there are really cool articles that Kenna and I have read.

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And we're just like, this is such a neat idea. This isn't something that we've ever thought about before.

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Something we've never heard of.

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So we'll bring you that content so that you guys can, you know, have something to read or read up on a different article.

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It's not going to be an article that we've created, but it'll be things like Psychology Today, very renowned articles and things like that.

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Scholarly articles and stuff.

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So that's good content every Monday.

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And then we're doing every other Thursday for our cases.

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And then we're still going to bring you that Patreon exclusive on the 29th every month.

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Yeah, the Patreon episodes aren't going anywhere.

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The reason mostly being for the every other case on Thursday is because we have a lot of really great content out right now.

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And we really want to emphasize the content that we have.

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And I think this is the perfect time to do that because again, holiday season, we're both very busy with school.

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You guys are also very busy. It's not just us. It's the listeners.

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You know, we don't want to overwhelm anyone with content, you guys or ourselves.

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And we do want to be able to get our listen count up, maybe build up following more following.

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And then by the time the new year comes, we have all this exciting stuff to release.

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Absolutely. And yes, we will be continuously writing in the background,

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but that deadline doesn't have to be so harsh.

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And Ken and I have both been, like I said earlier in the episode, on and off sick.

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And I think some of it might have to do with the fact that we're just highly stressed right now.

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Oh, absolutely. And with the con, you know, we said this on the episode.

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We told so many people, yeah, we do two episodes a week and everyone looked at us like we just invented fire.

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They were like, what? How? Like, how are you doing that on top of full-time jobs,

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on top of being a parent, on top of school? It's a lot of work.

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Yeah.

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And we need to make sure that we are focusing on our mental health so that we can give you guys the best content.

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For sure. Yeah. We don't want any more of this kind of feeling like we have to postpone certain things

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because we're not feeling well. And again, I'm a total believer in like mind, body follows mind, you know?

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And so when mentally we're not really taking care of ourselves, I believe that your immunity is going down.

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Absolutely. Yeah.

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I feel like you're just more susceptible to not feeling well either mentally or physically.

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So we really appreciate you guys and your understanding in that and we're still going to bring you content.

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And again, we're going to be doing writing in the background that way come the new year.

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We're going to hit it hard and we're really excited, but we won't be so overwhelmed because we'll have things in advance.

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Exactly. We will, absolutely.

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So keep sending in your recommendations, guys, and thank you so much for the listeners that are listening today.

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I know that we had some people reach out to us that said, look, I haven't seen content being posted.

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Are you guys okay? So really, like, thank you guys for because we didn't think anyone was going to notice.

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Like nobody's going to notice. We were like, no one listens to us.

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Just Louis.

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And that is also the reason if this is your first time listening for the long intro, usually we do not talk this much in the beginning of an episode,

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but we had a lot to say because we haven't been here for a couple of weeks.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So just the very last thing I am going to read this email from Joanna and then we will get into this case.

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So Joanna says, hello.

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Firstly, I love the show.

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I've been listening since I discovered it several months ago and I've already listened to every episode.

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That's impressive.

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She said, I almost emailed you last week because I haven't gotten a new episode since September 11th and I wanted to check in to make sure everything is okay with you all.

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I'm also a motherhead type that way, LOL.

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Today, I finally checked Instagram.

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I'm not on that too much.

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It looks like there have been episodes since September 11th.

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Do you know if there's a reason I would not get them on Spotify?

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Thank you for all you do.

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I tell everyone about your podcast, Love You Bye.

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So that was really sweet.

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And we did a little back and forth emailing because we were super excited that we got reached out to you by someone that we don't know.

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And they were checking on us, which is really great.

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I was like, do you want a free bracelet?

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I'm giving you free bracelets.

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Oh, cool.

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And also shout out to Joanna because she noticed that we had told her that we were taking some time off, kind of explained it.

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She was actually the first to know.

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She was the first listener to know about this.

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She was the first listener to know.

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And we explained it and she responded saying, you know, I was really hoping that you guys were taking some time off to focus on yourselves.

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And that was really awesome because like, we're just friends.

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Like everyone's just a friend here.

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So that's so great.

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And also shout out to Joanna once again because she did join the Patreon and that's our newest Patreon member.

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So thank you very much for that.

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And I know that she was eager to hear those bonus episodes as well.

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She got a triple shout out.

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She did.

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Thanks Joanna.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I think that's all of our business.

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You think so?

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I think.

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I'll probably think of something later.

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There's probably something else to discuss.

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I'm excited for your Patreon episode.

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Oh yeah.

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Well, I'll announce it at the end of this episode.

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Even though it's kind of like late because it's coming out a day, I think a day after this comes out.

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Yeah.

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But still.

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We're gonna do it.

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We usually do that a week in advance.

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We do, but we wouldn't.

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But we do.

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But I am just as excited as the listeners.

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I'm assuming to hear what you have because it has been a couple weeks since I've heard a story too.

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Well, we usually post on the Instagram a week before.

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You know, it's been stressful.

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Just go ahead.

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It's been stressful.

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Just shut up.

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Get on with it.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Today we are gonna talk about Lisa Montgomery.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I feel like I always go, okay.

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I have no idea what you're talking about.

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I know sometimes when you do that, I think I know this person.

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I have to know this person.

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And then halfway through, I'm like, I think I know this person.

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But then at the end, I'm like, I didn't know that person.

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I didn't know that person.

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I didn't know that case at all.

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I didn't know that case at all.

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Content warning.

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This episode depicts descriptions of sexual assault, rape, animal abuse, alcohol and drug

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use, and emotional and mental abuse of a hands-on parent and a spouse.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out any one of our other episodes.

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Remember that you're mental health comes first and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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So Lisa Montgomery was born on February 27, 1968 in Melbourne, Kansas.

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Lisa's mother, Judy, I think it's...

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Shanessy?

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Shaughnessy?

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Shaughnessy?

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O'Shaughnessy.

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Like Hennessy, yeah.

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O'Shaughnessy.

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O'Shaughnessy.

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Principal O'Shaughnessy?

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Shanessy.

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Yeah, I think it's Shanessy.

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Either way, she was 20 when Lisa was born.

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Her father was 25-year-old John Patterson, who was in the military, and had a history

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of alcoholism.

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Unfortunately, Lisa's mother had also begun struggling with alcohol use for some time

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before Lisa was conceived, and Judy would continue to drink while pregnant with Lisa.

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Lisa would be born with permanent brain damage and diagnose the fetal alcohol syndrome as

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a result.

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Oh my god.

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Already not off to a good start.

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A horrific start.

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Already not to a good start.

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Like coming into this world, and you have no, obviously, no fucking say in this, you're

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coming into this world like addicted, essentially.

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That's so awful.

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From my get-go, things were not okay in the household, like we just said.

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Lisa's sister, Diane, who was four years older and John's from a previous relationship,

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would describe the household as something like a torture house.

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Oh my god.

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She said that from an early age, as long as she can remember, Judy would beat the girls

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with whatever was close to her at the time of her frequent outbursts.

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What's going on with Judy?

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The mother?

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Yeah, she's just an alcoholic.

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She's an alcoholic.

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Oh, not just an alcoholic.

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She's just an alcoholic.

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She's just an alcoholic.

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Geez, like a raging alcoholic.

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Just from the get.

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And I tried to look up, you know, of course, more stuff about Judy.

226
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,520
We always wanted to try to give you guys the best amount of content, but I looked up, I

227
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,640
think her father was also an alcoholic and an abuser as well.

228
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,360
What do we always say the abuse cycle continues?

229
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,520
Yep.

230
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:07,120
It was said that some of Lisa's first words were quote, don't spank me, mommy, end quote.

231
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,680
Oh my god.

232
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,160
Ugh, I just got heaved.

233
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,720
Ugh, I just got heaved.

234
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:12,960
Oh, that's awful.

235
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:13,960
Her first words.

236
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,080
That is so awful.

237
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,080
As well as physical abuse the girls experienced, Diane would recall that oftentimes Judy would

238
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,920
strip her naked Diane and force her to stay outside in the coals while locking the door

239
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,920
behind her.

240
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,320
This is the other child?

241
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,200
Yeah, John's from a previous relationship and she's, I don't know what age she is at

242
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:41,640
this point, but somewhere between four and eight, I think, I want to say.

243
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,400
Judy would say things to Diane while she was outside about how her biological mom abandoned

244
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,560
her and that she wasn't wanted by either household.

245
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:53,320
So she's out in the cold nude and this is by neighbors' accounts.

246
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,640
Neighbors saw this happen often.

247
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,320
And what do the neighbors do?

248
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,320
Called the cops.

249
00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,720
The cops didn't do anything?

250
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:00,720
No.

251
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,320
Oh, interesting.

252
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,600
Judy would tape Lisa's mouth shut even as a toddler.

253
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:14,560
At an early age, Lisa learned not to cry in order to regulate her breathing and concentrate

254
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,440
on her emotions in order to not hyperventilate.

255
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:19,800
Because as like a toddler.

256
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,800
As like a toddler.

257
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,080
She was probably like, I don't even want to say how early this started because I'm not

258
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,880
really sure, but yeah, it was a regular occurrence.

259
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:27,880
That is.

260
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:28,880
And she was a little baby.

261
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,080
I mean, there's no other way to put it.

262
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,080
That's fucking horrible.

263
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,400
Like neglect and abuse.

264
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,400
And abuse.

265
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:39,280
So yeah, when Judy would put the tape over Lisa's mouth, she would like when she'd start

266
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,960
crying, she would have to control her breathing because her nose would get stopped up like

267
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,560
full of snot and she wouldn't be able to breathe.

268
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,680
So she had to like learn to like if she was started to cry that that tape came out, she

269
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,720
had to stop crying.

270
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,360
Like you're teaching your child to push their emotions down.

271
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,160
Oh yeah, like obviously we know why her name is the name of the episode.

272
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,160
Yeah.

273
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,120
But it's so fucked up.

274
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,240
Judy would often force the girls to eat raw onions for punishment, especially since Diane

275
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,560
hated onions.

276
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,240
Like one time Diane was like, I hate onions.

277
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,800
And ever since then, Judy would force feed them onions.

278
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,040
She's like, let's just use this.

279
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,760
Do you think that Judy like really didn't want kids and that's why she drinks so much

280
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,520
when she was pregnant?

281
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:23,520
Maybe.

282
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,520
I think that.

283
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,720
I don't know.

284
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,960
I feel like it gets so much worse.

285
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:29,960
Okay, just keep going.

286
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:30,960
It gets so much worse.

287
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:38,120
I think that Judy probably self-medicated with alcohol quite often and I think it probably

288
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,000
got to a point to where her bringing was damaged because again, she doesn't like really fucking

289
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,840
horrific shit.

290
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,920
Judy also would use cold showers in the winter as a form of punishment as well because the

291
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:52,920
house would get really cold.

292
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,520
It wasn't very well insulated.

293
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,160
John was often in and out of the house as the couple would often engage in physical

294
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,080
fights in front of the two girls.

295
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,560
On one occasion in an effort to keep the girls from harm and seemingly had had enough of

296
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,680
Judy's shit, John took the children but would eventually come back and I'm not entirely

297
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,680
sure why.

298
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,120
Maybe out of fear of prosecution or guilt from keeping the kids from their mother's

299
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,120
mother.

300
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,800
She's not a mother.

301
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,320
She's not a mother.

302
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,080
However, John himself would eventually leave shortly after dropping the girls off for the

303
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:33,840
Vietnam War but I'm pretty sure he enlisted on purpose is my opinion.

304
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,480
So let me just get myself fucking out of here and just leave the kids with the mom.

305
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,960
We've got a woman who's clearly abusing them.

306
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:48,280
Shortly after John left, Judy began to date various men.

307
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,840
Diane and Lisa shared a bedroom and their beds were pretty close together as they kind

308
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,480
of had like a two twin beds and like a very small room.

309
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,080
And by the time that Lisa was four and Diane was eight, one of Judy's boyfriends began regularly

310
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,560
raping Diane at night while Lisa watched.

311
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,760
Oh my god, at eight years old.

312
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,960
Thankfully someone did contact Child Protective Services after some time and Diane would be

313
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,600
removed from the home however Lisa was left behind.

314
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,600
Oh, they're not raping her.

315
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,680
She just had to watch.

316
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:21,680
So she's fine.

317
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,680
She's fine.

318
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:23,680
Yeah.

319
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:24,680
What the fuck?

320
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:25,680
Like nobody's going to victimize her.

321
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,440
If they were, they would have done it already.

322
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,040
I'm clear whether or not this man was arrested for that by the way.

323
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,440
Oh my god, it's fucking annoying.

324
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:39,240
So again, Lisa was now left alone to be further victimized by Judy and the slew of men that

325
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,240
she was dating.

326
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,680
By age 11, Judy remarried a man by the name of Jack Kleiner.

327
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,520
Jack Kleiner had already fathered many children and would eventually have eight in total with

328
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:51,680
various different women.

329
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:52,960
Jesus.

330
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:58,360
And was described as a mean drunk, just to say the least, because again it gets worse.

331
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:03,200
Jack would begin to sexually assault Lisa quickly after living in the home and would

332
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,640
also allow his friends to come over to sexually assault the young girl.

333
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,120
Why do people fucking do that?

334
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:09,120
That's so weird.

335
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,120
Why do we've heard that so many times?

336
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,120
Weird, it's disgusting.

337
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:13,120
Sorry, it's weird.

338
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,120
That's really, that's a bit odd.

339
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,120
So odd.

340
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:17,120
Why?

341
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:18,120
Like, I don't understand that.

342
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,520
Like, how many fucked up people are there in the world that they're like, oh yeah, come

343
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,240
over and sexually assault my daughter that I've been doing that for years and they're

344
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:26,240
not like, no.

345
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,240
Yeah.

346
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,240
They're like, oh this one's like a fun time.

347
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,240
That sounds like a fun time.

348
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,240
I'll bring the beer.

349
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,240
Like, ew.

350
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,400
So again, yeah, Judy, I mean, Lisa is 11 at this point.

351
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:43,480
So once Judy found this out that her husband Jack was sexually assaulting her daughter,

352
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:50,760
Judy actually held her own daughter at gunpoint calling Lisa a slut and blamed Lisa for coming

353
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:51,760
under her husband.

354
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:52,760
Oh my god.

355
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:53,760
Oh my god.

356
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,760
She's like 11 and 12 at this point.

357
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,760
Yeah.

358
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,160
I have literally no words.

359
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:07,280
However, Judy would eventually begin to charge men to rape Lisa and would tell Lisa that

360
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,480
it's her way of helping out with the bills.

361
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,320
Oh my god.

362
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,080
That's disgusting.

363
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,080
Oh my god.

364
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,040
Sometimes Judy would pay handymen who would work on the house by allowing them to rape

365
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,480
Lisa for housework, like re-roofing and shit.

366
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,040
Again, plumbing.

367
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,080
How are you finding all of these people that are willing to fucking do this?

368
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,080
They're just disgusting.

369
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,120
And this is what I'm saying, like this is such a horrific case and nobody did anything.

370
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,880
There were so many people that had an opportunity to say, no, I'm not going to rape your fucking

371
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,880
daughter.

372
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:38,880
No, I'm not going to do that.

373
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:39,880
In fact, I'm going to fucking report you because it's disgusting.

374
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:40,880
Yeah.

375
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,600
What the fuck?

376
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:48,840
Oftentimes these assaults would include beating, raping, and even urinating on the girl.

377
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,080
That's fucking horrible.

378
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,400
A lot of these beatings resulted in many instances of brain injuries and trauma as well.

379
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:55,400
Oh my god.

380
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,400
Because it was so severe.

381
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,400
I mean, she's little too.

382
00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,400
She's little.

383
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,640
She already has brain damage from when she was born.

384
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,640
Yeah.

385
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,480
It's like this is such a frequent occurrence that Jack actually built a shed on the property

386
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:18,720
with the express purpose of raping and beating Lisa and allowing other men to as well.

387
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,360
Jack and Judy would go on to have Lisa's brother, Teddy, who also remembers the hostile

388
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:24,600
household.

389
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,080
He later recounted in court that Judy in a rage had actually beaten and killed the family

390
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,240
dog in front of the children with a shovel.

391
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,480
Although he couldn't really recount why Judy did this other than he believed that it was

392
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,920
a fear tactic to control the children.

393
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,640
Let me just kill the dog.

394
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,880
This dog that has nothing to do with anything.

395
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,120
There's nothing to do with anything.

396
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,360
It doesn't even understand what the fuck's happening.

397
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,600
It's not like Teddy said, oh I remember the dog pissing and peeing everywhere, which probably

398
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,960
was because, I mean, let's be honest, what kind of a household are we talking about here?

399
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,320
That's true, but it's not an excuse.

400
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,360
She clearly doesn't give a shit about her kids, so why is she gonna care about a dog?

401
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:07,280
Really Teddy had said something about his mother always wanting to crush any bit of

402
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,480
happiness her children possibly could have had, and that's what he accredits that to.

403
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:19,000
That the dog was a good dog and an escape for the children, and she was, I guess, losing

404
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,040
control over the kids, so she decided to kill the dog in front of them.

405
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,640
This Judy should have gotten treatment.

406
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,640
She's the worst Judy.

407
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,200
Have you ever heard of best Judy?

408
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,160
It's like a RuPaul thing where RuPaul Charles says, like, your best Judy.

409
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,080
I think it's in reference to Judy Garland.

410
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,680
Mom and Dad clean out the closet, so I don't know if it's echoey in here.

411
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,240
Yeah, it's like nothing else in here.

412
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,440
I know we're gonna have to put sound pads.

413
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,640
Yeah, but she's the worst Judy.

414
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,320
That is absolutely horrendous, and I'm, the listeners probably like, yeah, can we get

415
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:53,320
it at twirlbooks?

416
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,320
It is disgusting.

417
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,400
But no, I don't have nothing else to say about that.

418
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,160
Jack was notorious in the neighborhood as a pervert and pedophile.

419
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,760
This is the new dad.

420
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:03,760
The new husband.

421
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,760
The new dad.

422
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,760
Oh yeah, the dad.

423
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:06,760
I'm sorry, not a dad.

424
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,640
The new piece of shit that's living in there.

425
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:16,760
Dad of Teddy and Diane's gone, like child protective services.

426
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,400
So it's Lisa and Teddy, yeah.

427
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,360
But Jack, well, Jack already has eight total kids or some shit.

428
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,120
He's fertile myrtle over here.

429
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,720
Disgusting.

430
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:28,720
That's disgusting.

431
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,240
I wanted to say that earlier, but it wasn't fertile.

432
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,600
I was gonna fit the context, but now it did.

433
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,240
Neighbors across the street would file complaints against Jack, who would often wake up early

434
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,320
on Sunday mornings, head to the front yard, and masturbate as the family would pile it

435
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,840
into their vehicle in order to head to church.

436
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,720
You just be whacking it in the front yard with a robe on.

437
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,720
Come again.

438
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:53,720
Boomch.

439
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,720
Boomch.

440
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,320
Ew, wait, why?

441
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,600
They had young children, I guess.

442
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,120
He was notorious for being a pedophile.

443
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,600
His family wasn't going to church.

444
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:05,600
No, no, no.

445
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,080
I thought you were saying that he would walk out with his family while they were all gonna

446
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,240
get the car, and he would jack it to his family.

447
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,240
Well, gross.

448
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,800
I mean, he would.

449
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,520
No, he would wake up early on Sunday mornings to watch the neighbors across the street get

450
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,400
into their van and go to church.

451
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,840
He would whack it in the front yard.

452
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,760
And he'd be beating off in the front yard, watching them go just to be gross.

453
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,400
Well, not just to be gross, but I'm sure he got off on the kids.

454
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,440
There are much better ways to spend your Sunday morning.

455
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,440
Like sleeping in.

456
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,440
Like sleeping in, exactly.

457
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,720
Instead of being a fucking pedo.

458
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,000
Pedo and a pervert.

459
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,640
The police did nothing about these incidents, even after multiple phone calls about Jack's

460
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,640
behavior.

461
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,240
That's, well, remember we talked about, well, he's on his property, so.

462
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,160
You know, kind of shit.

463
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,160
Paraphilic disorders.

464
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,160
I'm not laughing about that.

465
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,160
Cross, cross, cross.

466
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,960
Cross her eyes.

467
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,760
Cross her eyes.

468
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,640
The episode we did on paraphilic disorders, one of the disorders is whacking it to someone

469
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,000
that's give the excitement of someone seeing it.

470
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Yeah, that's true.

471
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,440
And that's probably what this guy fucking has.

472
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,440
Probably.

473
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,440
Or one of the many fucking things that this guy has.

474
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,440
Oh yeah.

475
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,440
Yeah.

476
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,440
This guy's awful.

477
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,880
Even Lisa's cousin, who was in law enforcement knew of the assaults and sexually driven

478
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,480
offenses, but chose not to say anything or do anything.

479
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,160
Do you think that he also assaults at her though?

480
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,160
And that's why?

481
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,160
I don't know.

482
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,040
I, from all accounts, it seems like he was like a kind of standup dude.

483
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,040
Jack?

484
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,040
No, not Jack.

485
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,200
The cousin, this is Lisa's cousin, who was in law enforcement, knew of her being abused

486
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,200
and didn't say anything.

487
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,320
I thought, I thought that Lisa's cousin was a female.

488
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,320
That's why I said that.

489
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,520
Do you think that the cousin didn't say anything because the cousin was sexually abused?

490
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,240
But if the cousin is male, I mean, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have also been a victim.

491
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,240
That's true.

492
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,200
It's like, Teddy is not being sexually assaulted and Lisa is.

493
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,360
Well, yeah, Teddy never came out and expressly said that, but clearly there's opportunities

494
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,560
for physical abuse and stuff like that as well.

495
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,560
For sure, absolutely.

496
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,440
But no, that cousin should have definitely said something.

497
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,880
Lisa also became addicted to cocaine at a young age, likely to deal with the abuse,

498
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,480
and honestly it was probably given to her by the men that assaulted her.

499
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,480
Oh, of course.

500
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,480
To keep her numb.

501
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,400
Yeah, here, take this.

502
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,640
Judy would use Jack for everything that he was worth, which, you know, probably wasn't

503
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,640
a lot.

504
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,600
When she realized that Jack was becoming broke, she decided to file for divorce from Jack

505
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,280
and charge him with the assault and rape of her daughter, Lisa.

506
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Like she's like, oh, I took all your money, you don't have a lot of money, so I'm gonna

507
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,840
sue you.

508
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,280
Essentially, I'm gonna take you to court so that you have to pay some kind of a payout

509
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,280
or some shit.

510
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,320
I feel like this Jack-a-guy would be the kind of person that's like, oh, I've been assaulting

511
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,720
and raping her daughter for years and she hasn't said anything, so you should charge

512
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,720
her too.

513
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,720
Yeah.

514
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,720
I'm already going down for fucking assault and rape.

515
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,520
Might as well just like take her down too, you know?

516
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Yeah, the shed was her idea.

517
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,320
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Judy testified against Jack and although many in the court proceedings consider Judy to

528
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:48,400
be cold and uncaring, ultimately Lisa protected her assailant, Jack, by lying to the court

529
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,400
about the abuse.

530
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,400
But she was petrified.

531
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:51,400
Yeah.

532
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,720
Like, I bet she was so fucking scared.

533
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,280
They probably all threatened her life.

534
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,320
All the men from the group.

535
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,600
She did probably think like, I don't know, you know?

536
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,600
I mean, there's that, yeah.

537
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,080
She probably thought that she was doing what was right for Jack, which is gross.

538
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,600
Like, this is what everyone goes through.

539
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,600
And this is just how life is.

540
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,640
It's probably what she was thinking.

541
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:19,000
Lisa was to be enrolled into counseling after this event, but was eventually encouraged

542
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,200
to leave the sessions after some time by her own mother.

543
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,200
Of course.

544
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,000
Because she didn't want the fucking truth coming out.

545
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,560
Yeah, exactly.

546
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,120
Jack was never charged with abuse or rape, although the divorce was granted and the two

547
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:32,120
would split.

548
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:33,680
So she's getting what she wants yet again?

549
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,680
Yeah.

550
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,680
Cool.

551
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,880
She probably gets alimony or some shit too.

552
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,760
Once she had three kids, now she has two.

553
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,680
After this time, Lisa began looking for ways to escape her mother, and by the time she

554
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,880
turned 18, she would join the military and escape, just like her father John did.

555
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,880
Oh wow.

556
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:51,880
Oh wow.

557
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,640
However, Judy had other plans for Lisa.

558
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,720
She began forcing a relationship between Lisa and her own stepbrother, Carl.

559
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,320
Lisa's stepbrother.

560
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,520
Carl was just as abusive as Jack, and would often use Lisa's past trauma or sexual assault

561
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,160
against Lisa, calling her used up and that no one would ever want her.

562
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,480
So you might as well just marry me.

563
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,120
Like, I'm your only option.

564
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:18,120
I'm your only option.

565
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:19,120
Nobody else is gonna love you.

566
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:20,520
That is fucked up.

567
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:21,520
Because we're family.

568
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,840
That, oh my god, that fucking sucks.

569
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,320
Like that breaks my heart.

570
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,120
Carl would also begin raping Lisa, usually with inanimate objects.

571
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:36,120
He would record these encounters on videotape and share them with his friends.

572
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,640
And his friends weren't like, yo, that's your step sister?

573
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,640
Yeah.

574
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:40,640
And that's also rape?

575
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,640
Mm-hmm.

576
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,640
No.

577
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,480
This whole community is just people that are cool with rape and incest?

578
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,480
Apparently.

579
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,480
Cool.

580
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,440
It definitely sounds like a culture.

581
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,600
Even Lisa's brother, Teddy, had seen one of these videos of his sister, as Carl showed

582
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,600
everyone.

583
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,900
Lisa's humiliation in an attempt to control her.

584
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:05,160
He tried to keep her feeling worthless and embarrassed, essentially.

585
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,120
Lisa and Carl would go on to have four children together over the years.

586
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,120
What?

587
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,120
Like, they were married.

588
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,000
Like, they were together for four years.

589
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,000
And she fucking started to get kids.

590
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,000
Or over the years, rather.

591
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,720
I honestly do not blame her for staying with him because she probably does not know any

592
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,720
better.

593
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,720
She doesn't know any better.

594
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,040
She's, again, she was born with brain damage.

595
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,880
Brain damage occurred many times during these assaults.

596
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:31,400
She's probably, herself, is self-medicating with drugs and alcohol at this point.

597
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,480
She just thinks this is, again, this is how life is.

598
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,760
This is just gonna be my life.

599
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,960
This is it for forever.

600
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,600
It's like, if you were born and somebody told you this guy was green your whole life, you'd

601
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,000
believe them, especially a parent, right?

602
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:48,920
By the time that Lisa and Carl had their fourth child, Judy decided that Lisa would go on

603
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,600
to have a tubal ligation.

604
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,440
So Carl and Judy both decided.

605
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,720
For Lisa, you can't have any more children.

606
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,200
We're gonna tie our tubes.

607
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,200
Okay.

608
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,200
No more children.

609
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,840
So they have full control over her body?

610
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,840
Over her body, absolutely.

611
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,040
Well, I mean, so far that's all she's ever been taught, is that her body does not belong

612
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,040
to her.

613
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,560
So yes, she went under the procedure of tubal ligation, which is a surgery where your fallopian

614
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,840
tubes are cut, blocked, or sealed off to prevent any further pregnancies.

615
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,240
Lisa's mental state, which had already been deteriorating over the years from the physical

616
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,640
abuse began to worsen.

617
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,080
She began to have delusions and further isolate herself from her own children.

618
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,120
How old is she at this point?

619
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,080
She's probably in her 30s.

620
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,840
So perfect time for a mental disorder to develop?

621
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:37,840
Yeah, definitely.

622
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,880
And within the, yeah, for sure.

623
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,040
This is getting worse and worse as it goes on, because I think her and Carl, it was about

624
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,280
17, 18 when her and Carl, I don't even want to say got together, because that sounds like

625
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,280
there was a choice.

626
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,200
When you were forced together, or she was forced with that.

627
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,120
When she was sold to him, probably, which is so awful.

628
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,800
So yeah, this would be over the course of about 10 years, I'm going to say.

629
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,800
Right?

630
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,200
Because again, Carl and her were together when she was 18.

631
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,320
And yes.

632
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,840
So she would, like I said, experience delusions.

633
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,520
She was involved in multiple car accidents.

634
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,400
She drank heavily and she began to engage in sex work to make money on the side as she

635
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,720
couldn't keep a job down to her often erratic behavior.

636
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,200
So again, she's involved, again, like the multiple car accidents, all this stuff.

637
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,200
She's drinking heavily.

638
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,440
She's drugging.

639
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,840
She can't keep down a job.

640
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,960
She probably has no concept of a reality, honestly.

641
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:34,960
Yeah, absolutely.

642
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,160
I'm also over here thinking about all of the mental disorders that develop in the late

643
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,200
20s and early 30s and women.

644
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,440
Lisa would eventually divorce her step-brother Carl and eventually meet a new man by the

645
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,240
name of Kevin.

646
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:55,320
Kevin and Lisa seemed to be doing well and Lisa yearned to give Kevin a baby.

647
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,280
Lisa began to claim on multiple occasions that she was in fact pregnant.

648
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,720
He didn't know about the procedure.

649
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,720
No.

650
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,840
But the pregnancies would always somehow end in a miscarriage.

651
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:10,480
However, we all know that this was not possible at the time as she had had her tubes tied.

652
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Lisa, now 36, desperately wanted a child but was unable to conceive.

653
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,200
One afternoon, Lisa and Kevin went to a dog show, don't ask me why.

654
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,280
I mean, unless the trauma of losing the dog made her a dog person.

655
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,440
But this is, I was just like, oh, a dog show.

656
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,000
That's kind of interesting.

657
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Random.

658
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:35,640
There, Lisa met 23-year-old Bobby Joe Stinnett, who along with her husband, Zeb, ran a dog

659
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,200
breeding business on the side.

660
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,960
Lisa and Bobby Joe struck up a conversation and when Bobby Joe mentioned that she was

661
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,080
expecting, Lisa said that she too was pregnant.

662
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,680
Shit.

663
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,960
Bobby Joe was born December 4, 1981 and she was an all-American type girl.

664
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,880
She was very active in school and in cheerleading.

665
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,360
In high school, she met the love of her life, which was Zeb Stinnett.

666
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,040
Bobby Joe was described as shy, kind, and loving and a huge animal lover and was excited

667
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,040
to become a mom for the very first time.

668
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,040
Zeb and Bobby Joe were saving up to purchase the couple's first home and things seemed

669
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,000
to be going well for the two.

670
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,080
The two settled in Skidmore, Missouri and started up a dog breeding business in order

671
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:24,360
to make money and Bobby Joe was very active in an online dog community forum.

672
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,600
Once Bobby Joe met Lisa, the two discussed that they were both pregnant and Bobby Joe

673
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,320
told Lisa about the forum and encouraged her to reach out on the forum if she was ever

674
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,560
interested in looking at a puppy for their new baby.

675
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,520
Lisa hopped on the chance to get involved with the forum and constantly seek validation

676
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,720
from people on the forum regarding her pregnancy.

677
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,280
She was sending everyone updates on her sonograms and even announced that she was pregnant with

678
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,280
twins.

679
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,280
In this dog forum?

680
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Yeah, that's hilarious.

681
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,280
She's like, oh yay puppies, that's nice, I'm also pregnant.

682
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,240
By the way, talk about my pregnancy.

683
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,700
Here's my sonogram from Google.

684
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:03,320
After a month or so on the forum, Lisa announced that she had lost one of the twins.

685
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,560
So sad.

686
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,760
She continued to maintain her pregnancy story and began to buy Miss Honey clothes and carried

687
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,720
herself as if she was pregnant, like in her walk and stuff.

688
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:16,960
For months, Lisa and Bobby Joe kept in contact and eventually Lisa expressed her desire to

689
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,760
purchase one of Bobby Joe's terrier puppies.

690
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Although she used the alias Darling Fisher.

691
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,480
She wasn't like yo Bobby Joe, homie, I'm gonna come over.

692
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,480
It's me, it's Jessica.

693
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,480
Todd Cree.

694
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:37,600
It's me, talk on to kiss, it's me, Todd Cree.

695
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,600
I love that man.

696
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,600
That's a good bit.

697
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,040
Just what a good practical joke.

698
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,320
I, Lisa loves Scott Disick, he was like my favorite character on that show.

699
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,320
He used to be.

700
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,280
Now everybody hates him.

701
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,280
I like him.

702
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,280
I think he's fine.

703
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,280
I think he's a good dad.

704
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,120
I think he was troubled for a long time and he finally realized what's going on.

705
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,120
Anyway.

706
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,040
The two would set a date in order for Darlene to pick up her new puppy.

707
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,160
So yeah, she was like, home girl it's not me, it's some mother chick.

708
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,880
And then she's like, okay cool.

709
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,520
That wasn't me, that was Patricia.

710
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,120
That was me, that was Patricia.

711
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:18,080
On December 16th, 2004, Bobby Joe's mother was unable to reach her daughter in the afternoon.

712
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,760
Oh Jesus.

713
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Bobby Joe's mother found this strange as Bobby Joe was eight months pregnant and at

714
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,560
this point rarely left the home.

715
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,360
Zeb was at work and could not leave.

716
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,160
He had not heard from his wife either.

717
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,040
Neighbors said when asked that all seemed normal in the afternoon on the block other

718
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:42,000
than a suspicious four red four doors to Dan that was parked outside of the stand at home.

719
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,320
If it was suspicious, why didn't you call authorities?

720
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,920
This is a big giant tale of nobody doing anything.

721
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,440
Come to think of it, there was a suspicious vehicle.

722
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,440
Well I didn't find that strange.

723
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,440
I didn't find that strange.

724
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,120
Yeah, I did find that strange.

725
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,680
When Bobby Joe's mother entered the home, she was met with a horrific scene.

726
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,360
Her daughter was lying dead on the floor.

727
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,680
Blood covered every inch of the home.

728
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,520
The blood was fresh and it appeared that the crime had just occurred.

729
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,080
Bobby Joe's mother immediately called the police describing the state of her daughter

730
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:21,240
as it, quote, looked like her stomach had exploded and, quote, which is a horrific thing

731
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:23,600
for a mother to have to utter.

732
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,120
A horrific thing for anyone to see.

733
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,760
This is a mother and she's looking at her daughter like this.

734
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,000
That straight up makes me nauseous.

735
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,880
That is so sick.

736
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,200
EMTs worked on Bobby Joe as a rusher to the hospital, but unfortunately she was pronounced

737
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,800
to seats upon arrival at the hospital.

738
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,920
At about 515, Lisa called her husband Kevin to announce that she had given birth to their

739
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,400
first child together.

740
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,520
She was a healthy baby girl named Abigail.

741
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,760
Lisa had another surprise for Kevin.

742
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:01,240
She had stated that she actually decided to make a 175 mile shopping trip to Topeka when

743
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:05,480
all of a sudden Lisa went into labor, which is interesting.

744
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,880
So you know you're getting close to labor and you just decide to take a multiple hour

745
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,880
long trip?

746
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,560
175 miles to Topeka, which is where Bobby Joe lives.

747
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,160
Oh, okay, so you're literally placing yourself in the same time?

748
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,160
Yeah.

749
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,480
You're like, oh, I was just out shopping and I just, whoop.

750
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,760
Also, my name's Darlene and I went to pick up a puppy.

751
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,760
I don't have the puppy, but I do have a baby.

752
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Oh my gosh.

753
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,080
She drove to a nearby clinic where she delivered the baby, is what she told Kevin.

754
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,520
And she's just heading home with the child mere hours later?

755
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,200
Well now she's feeling weak after birth, so Lisa asked Kevin to come pick her up in their

756
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,760
new baby girl from Topeka.

757
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,160
Kevin obliged, however, Lisa asked Kevin to pick her up from the long John Silver is

758
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,600
down the street from the clinic, not at the actual clinic, you know, where she gave birth.

759
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,520
Like literally just a little bit ago.

760
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,600
She's like, you have an old LJS.

761
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,600
Yeah.

762
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:00,840
Like, a chicken must just be like-

763
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,040
Like a hunker and for some fried fish.

764
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,040
For fried fish.

765
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,320
I couldn't wait.

766
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,680
Kevin brought a friend with him as Lisa's red Corolla needed to be driven back as well.

767
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Four doors down.

768
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,520
You don't see.

769
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,840
Once in town, Lisa suggested that they go to a local diner.

770
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,320
Here at the diner, Lisa and Kevin began showing off baby Abigail.

771
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,800
They were shocked when they were told that the baby was only a day old, given the state

772
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:33,560
of her mother, Lisa, and that it's typically unusual for parents to bring their day old

773
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,800
or less than a day hour old baby out to a busy diner.

774
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,800
That's just something that does not happen.

775
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,520
Because you're not allowed to leave the hospital.

776
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,360
Well, not only that, but immunities.

777
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,360
Oh yeah.

778
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,880
You have to like slowly introduce your baby.

779
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,880
Like it's like, oh, that baby's like a super fresh baby.

780
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:49,880
Yeah.

781
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,400
Like, where did you get that baby?

782
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,400
Yeah, no, for real.

783
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,400
Oh my God.

784
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,240
And you're standing over here?

785
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,240
Just munching along?

786
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:00,640
Just munching along on your long john silvers that you brought to the diner?

787
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,080
Many in the community were also shocked at the presence of the baby, as a lot of people

788
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,080
didn't even believe that Lisa was pregnant in the first place.

789
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,080
Weird.

790
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,160
They're like, seriously, no, where did you get that baby?

791
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,360
No, like seriously.

792
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,200
Back at the stand at home, police were processing the crime scene.

793
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,960
It appears that Bobby Joe had been strangled to death.

794
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,600
Her infant daughter cut from her stomach with a kitchen knife from the couple's own home.

795
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,840
That is so fucking dangerous.

796
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,120
I mean, obviously she's deceased, but like for the baby too.

797
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,120
Yeah.

798
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,120
That is so scary.

799
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,840
An Amber Alert was put out for newborn Victoria Jo Stennett.

800
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Police also looked into the stand at computer logs as Zeb told investigators that Bobby

801
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:45,480
Joe was expecting a woman to come by to purchase a puppy sometime that day.

802
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,840
Hoping this was a potential witness for a timeline, investigators find the address of

803
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,000
Darlene Fisher and head to Melbourne, Kansas to speak with her.

804
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,440
So they got her IP address and everything and they're just like, oh, this is Darlene.

805
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,440
Let's go find.

806
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,520
And they're thinking, we'll go speak with her.

807
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,320
Maybe if she got the puppy or didn't get the puppy, what time did she come around the

808
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,320
house?

809
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,320
Did she see anything suspicious?

810
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,320
Yeah, for sure.

811
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,320
She's a witness.

812
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,280
Yeah, exactly, a potential witness.

813
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,480
When investigators pull up, they see a red corolla parked in the driveway.

814
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,800
Suspicious red sedan.

815
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,160
This was all investigators needed to feel confident and that their suspect was located inside.

816
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,440
They just gained access to the home where they found Lisa holding baby Victoria Jo in

817
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,240
her arms as they were watching TV.

818
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:30,240
Just fucking hanging out.

819
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,240
She's just hanging out with the baby.

820
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,400
Also, she put her real address with a dumb ass.

821
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Yeah.

822
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,400
Well, sorry.

823
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,440
She didn't put her address.

824
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:38,440
She it's an IP.

825
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,440
Oh, the email.

826
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,200
Yeah, they tracked where it came from.

827
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,040
I thought you were saying that like Darlene left like contact info with Bobby Joe.

828
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,520
You know, she's like, oh yeah, this is my description too.

829
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:49,960
There's my phone number.

830
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,440
She's like, this is definitely Lisa's phone number.

831
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,280
This is my mother's maiden name.

832
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,920
Although she's a bitch, don't contact her.

833
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,960
Lisa was taken in without incident and baby Victoria Jo was recovered safely.

834
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:04,200
It's soon reunited with her father's of and she once she was cleared, they took her to

835
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,960
the hospital and she was totally fine.

836
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:06,960
She was happy and healthy.

837
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,760
Well, I don't know about happy, but she was healthy.

838
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,440
Further investigation of Lisa's computer found searches such as quote at home, cesarean and

839
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,520
quote and quote birthing kits and quote.

840
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,040
Oh my God.

841
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,760
Many people online on the dog forum reported Lisa when she had shared a photo of little

842
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,920
Victoria Jo on the forum.

843
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,920
Like what the fuck?

844
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,520
Yeah, like they know that Bobby Joe was pregnant and that Lisa was likely not and this concerned

845
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:34,520
others in the forum.

846
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,960
So they had actually during this whole time had also reported.

847
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,240
Oh, those are the best people in this fucking story.

848
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:42,840
Are they dog forum people?

849
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,120
I know.

850
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,880
And Bobby Joe and Zeb, like it's just awful that all these other terrible, terrible people

851
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,240
are like surrounding Lisa.

852
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:55,280
But then there's this other, it's like good versus evil, which sounds crazy because it's

853
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,400
we're clearly talking about a mental disorder here.

854
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,920
But you know, what's up with Kevin though?

855
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,480
Like does he really believe that she was actually pregnant and she just had like her, does he

856
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,480
believe her story?

857
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:04,480
He believed her.

858
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:05,480
Yeah.

859
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,480
He had believed her.

860
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,280
I mean, there are in very rare cases pregnancies that you don't show at all.

861
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,280
Yeah.

862
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,840
But still, yeah, like she had, like I said, she was buying maternity clothes.

863
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,400
She had gained the weight and I don't think Kevin had had any kids at this point.

864
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,440
So maybe he's just like, I don't know.

865
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,920
I don't know the process, you know.

866
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,160
So of course, the online forum there and stings were right.

867
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,720
Good on you guys.

868
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,400
At first during an interrogation, Lisa tried to claim that the baby was hers.

869
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,840
However, police were unable to obtain records at the clinic.

870
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,320
Lisa claimed to have birthed the baby.

871
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,240
And furthermore, proving that the clinic had said that there was no records of any baby

872
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:45,400
girls being born on that day.

873
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,400
So.

874
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,680
Furthermore, Bobby Joe clung onto a few blonde hairs after her attack.

875
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:52,680
Whoa.

876
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,400
Later determined to be Lisa Montgomery's.

877
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,680
After 18 hours of interviewing, mostly with psychologists, Lisa had admitted to killing

878
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,560
Bobby Joe.

879
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,160
After playing with some of the puppies, Lisa strangled eight month pregnant Bobby Joe and

880
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,200
then removed Victoria Joe from her mother.

881
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,000
Lisa hopped into her car where she clamped the umbilical cord and wiped the baby down

882
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,160
with baby wipes.

883
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Trying to come up with a plan, Lisa dumped her own car near the hospital and walked to

884
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,280
the Long John Silver's across the street.

885
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,160
Montgomery was arrested for the crime of kidnapping resulting in death.

886
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:31,640
Well, I was going to ask if she, if Bobby Joe ultimately passed on while this was happening

887
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,480
or like if Lisa actually meant to go kill her and then do it or if she just meant to

888
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,480
take the baby.

889
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,880
But obviously you said she strangled her first.

890
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:38,880
Yeah, she did.

891
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:39,880
Strangle her.

892
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,400
So she, her plan was to kill her and then take her baby, not just take the baby.

893
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,880
Montgomery pleaded not guilty and was formally diagnosed with depression, borderline personality

894
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:55,200
disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder while having suffered all the brain damage

895
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,160
from years of abuse.

896
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:05,320
The diagnosis of pseudoscices was also introduced but was highly debated.

897
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,040
According to the National Library of Medicine, pseudoscices, pseudoscices, yeah I said it

898
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,040
right there for a second.

899
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:17,240
Is a condition in which the patient has all the signs or symptoms of a pregnancy except

900
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:20,680
for the confirmation of a presence of a fetus.

901
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,080
So you believe, you know, you believe it.

902
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,920
You can really trick yourself into like having symptoms.

903
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:31,800
In the case of pseudoscices, i.e. phantom pregnancy, there is an abdominal distention, enlargement

904
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:38,280
of the breasts, enhanced pigmentation, cessation of menses, morning sickness and vomiting, typical

905
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:44,160
lortic posture, arm walking, inverted, umbilicus, increased appetite and weight gain.

906
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,680
So that's that diagnosis.

907
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,920
Some said that Montgomery did experience these symptoms while others claimed that she never

908
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,880
complained about pregnancy symptoms at all.

909
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,160
So that's where it was highly debated.

910
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:02,200
The jury was unable to hear most of Montgomery's traumatic past, resulting in limiting the jury's

911
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,680
understanding of what could have contributed to Montgomery's mental state.

912
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,040
Why were they, why were they not allowed to hear that?

913
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,960
I, maybe because so much time had passed, I'm thinking maybe like her being a child

914
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,160
and being abused then versus her becoming an adult.

915
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,040
And you know, maybe they could have said because she moved away from the family, she wasn't

916
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,080
living with the mother anymore, that you know how people can be.

917
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Yeah, but there's also the, the thing of, um, your fucking childhood shapes who you are

918
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,200
as an adult.

919
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,200
Oh no, absolutely.

920
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Like it doesn't fucking matter how long it's been.

921
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:33,680
Yeah.

922
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,120
It fucking happened and it changed the course of her life.

923
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,240
Montgomery totally could have said, you know, well she hasn't been living with her mother

924
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:41,520
since she was 18 years old.

925
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,720
So you know, she's had all this time in the world to figure that out.

926
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:49,400
It, that has nothing to do with, you know, her brain wasn't permanently underdeveloped

927
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,400
or anything.

928
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:51,400
Right.

929
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,400
Cool.

930
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,400
Because of fetal alcohol syndrome.

931
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,400
Yeah.

932
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:55,400
Because she was fucking abused.

933
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,360
Oh, and you remember when she left her mother's house at 18 because she was forced to marry

934
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,360
her fucking stepbrother?

935
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,360
Remember that?

936
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,360
Oh, I do.

937
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,360
Yeah.

938
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,360
I remember that.

939
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,360
That was just a little bit ago.

940
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,360
No, I'm talking to the prosecutor.

941
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,360
Yeah, I know.

942
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,360
I know.

943
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:07,600
Oh my god.

944
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:13,080
Even with her multiple diagnosis, Montgomery was found guilty on October 22nd, 2007 of

945
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,220
kidnapping, resulting in death.

946
00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:16,220
Damn.

947
00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:19,720
Both life imprisonment and death penalty was presented to the jury.

948
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:24,000
And the jury unanimously decided that Lisa Montgomery was to be sentenced to death by

949
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,320
lethal injection.

950
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,840
Oh my gosh.

951
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,840
Montgomery's abuse was only fully understood after the trial was over.

952
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,760
She immediately began to attempt to appeal and many people chose to advocate for Montgomery

953
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,840
once they realized the magnitude of the abuse she experienced and the lack of help that

954
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,080
she received over the years.

955
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Like, not saying that she doesn't deserve to be locked up, but look at what fucking caused

956
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:46,920
this.

957
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,120
It's her relationship.

958
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,880
She needs to be institutionalized.

959
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:50,880
She does.

960
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:51,880
Yeah.

961
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:57,040
I would say she definitely deserves something.

962
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:04,280
She's clearly not been able to have, again, it's another case and when she can't have

963
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,680
control over her own body.

964
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:06,680
Of course.

965
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,040
Again.

966
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,960
Many people along Montgomery's life chose not to do something even when they knew that

967
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,640
the abuse was taking place.

968
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:21,120
Montgomery's supporters included her sister Diane, who wrote to President Trump in 2020

969
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,440
about Montgomery's abuse.

970
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:23,440
What?

971
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,440
Wild.

972
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,480
It was about her abuse, her mental disorders, and lack of treatment or intervention, asking

973
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,920
for Montgomery's death sentence to be overturned or reduced or reduce her sentence to life,

974
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,640
wishing for Lisa Montgomery to receive psychiatric treatment for the remainder of her time incarcerated.

975
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,480
I completely agree.

976
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,320
Some of this letter reads, quote,

977
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,680
We know from firsthand experience that these crimes are inevitably the product of a serious

978
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,480
mental illness.

979
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,800
Women who commit such crimes also are likely to have been victimized themselves.

980
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,400
These are important factors that make death sentences inappropriate.

981
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,840
We therefore urge you to commute the death sentence of Lisa Montgomery, a mentally ill

982
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,120
and brutally traumatized woman, end quote.

983
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,040
The letter would continue, quote,

984
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,520
Lisa's experiences as a victim of horrific sexual violence, physical abuse, and being

985
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,400
trafficked as a child do not excuse her crime.

986
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,880
But her history provides us with an important explanation that would influence any sentencing

987
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,640
recommendation we made as prosecutors.

988
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,320
Our experience prosecuting human traffickers and those who commit sex crimes against children

989
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,880
has given us a unique understanding of the profound physical and psychological harm that

990
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,600
victims like Lisa suffer.

991
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:36,880
We view this kind of evidence as critically relevant to determining the appropriate punishment

992
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,960
for a serious crime, end quote.

993
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,320
I could not have said it better myself.

994
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:47,360
Because exactly what that says is like, had the jury known all of this other shit, they

995
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,960
most likely would not have sent in search of death.

996
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,960
Not to death, yeah.

997
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,640
I mean, of course, maybe to life, but not to death.

998
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:54,640
I don't think.

999
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,640
I don't.

1000
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,640
That's my opinion.

1001
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,640
I don't think.

1002
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:04,520
I think it's taken from that letter of the two Donald Trump, but it was also to it was

1003
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:11,240
Diane Montgomery's sister and then prosecutors, defense attorneys, advocates, everybody, you

1004
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:17,280
know, medical professionals, psychological professionals, stuff like that.

1005
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,800
That's why that second one, it was like, it says as prosecutors.

1006
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,360
Yeah, I was thinking that too.

1007
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,920
I was like, what?

1008
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:30,800
This request was met with silence and Lisa Montgomery was executed on January 13th, 2021.

1009
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,160
When asked if she had any last words, she simply replied, no.

1010
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,520
Lisa Montgomery is the only federal inmate on death row at the time of her execution

1011
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:46,320
and was the was the first woman federally executed in 67 years.

1012
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,440
Only three women in total have been executed by federal government in our history.

1013
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:57,680
Mary Surrett, who helped conspire the assassination of Abraham Lincoln in 1865.

1014
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:03,400
Ethel Rosenberg, who spied on the US government and gave Soviets war secrets in 1953.

1015
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:08,560
And Bonnie Heady Hall, who had murdered six year old Robert Greenleese in a botched kidnapping

1016
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,160
for ransom also in 1953.

1017
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,120
So that's only four women that I've ever been executed federally, one of which was

1018
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,960
Lisa Montgomery with all of that mental illness.

1019
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,080
That's awful, honestly.

1020
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,960
I don't think that any justice was served by killing her.

1021
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,120
That's again my opinion.

1022
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,000
I feel like if she had gotten psychiatric help, it's very likely that she might not

1023
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,000
have committed another murder.

1024
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,680
I think that if she had gotten, well, she should have gotten psychiatric help from

1025
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:35,680
the beginning.

1026
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Well, what really should have happened is that she shouldn't have fucking been through

1027
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:38,680
like hell and back.

1028
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:39,680
Yeah.

1029
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,280
But at 18, whenever she was able to leave the house, she should have gotten psychiatric

1030
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,680
help, but she was in no position to seek that for herself.

1031
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:46,680
No, yeah.

1032
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,080
Again, she was taught at a very young age that her body was not hers.

1033
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,080
She was married to Carl.

1034
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,600
Her choices were not her own.

1035
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,600
Yeah.

1036
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,040
Some say that because the government was in a lame duck period, waiting for Trump to

1037
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,560
leave office and Biden to come into office, it was overlooked.

1038
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,640
It kind of makes sense.

1039
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,280
I think in between that lame duck period is what they call it, lame duck.

1040
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,920
I think three people were executed on death row.

1041
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,600
All of which were trying to be appealed for turnover.

1042
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,320
God, that's awful.

1043
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:20,640
Jack Kleiner, Lisa Montgomery's stepfather, passed away in 2009 at age 77.

1044
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,640
Too good for him.

1045
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,000
Straight up too good for him.

1046
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:30,120
And in a strange twist, in 2019, Lisa Montgomery's brother, Teddy Kleiner, was killed in what

1047
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:31,640
seemed like a random event.

1048
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:32,640
What?

1049
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:37,560
He was found with multiple gunshot wounds deceased at the scene, and the case is considered

1050
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,600
an open investigation still.

1051
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:40,600
Oh my gosh.

1052
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,480
Like, they don't know what happened.

1053
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,080
They don't know if it was like a road rage or if it was a, yeah.

1054
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,080
Wow.

1055
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,080
Isn't that nuts?

1056
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,080
That is wild.

1057
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,880
That's the story of Lisa Montgomery.

1058
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,960
Dang, that was an intense one.

1059
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:53,960
It's a lot.

1060
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,360
It's a lot, especially from the beginning.

1061
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,000
And as soon as you said that she met Bobby Joe and she said that they were both pregnant,

1062
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,760
I knew where it was going, but it was still really hard to hear.

1063
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:04,760
Yeah.

1064
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,240
That's a gnarly case.

1065
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:07,920
And I had never heard about that.

1066
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,000
The name sounded familiar, but never heard about that.

1067
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,720
And that's so awful, because every single thing in this story could have been prevented.

1068
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:17,600
Yeah, I agree.

1069
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,520
One more person stood up and said something.

1070
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,120
Clearly, they talked about it with the Child Protective Services in Diane's case.

1071
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,960
But Diane was, you know, she was eight, I think, when she was removed, and she went

1072
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,320
on to lead a healthy, fulfilling life.

1073
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,480
And you know, I mean, things could have happened for Lisa.

1074
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,440
Yeah, processes are there in place for a reason.

1075
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,880
Like, this happened to this eight-year-old.

1076
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,360
Why wouldn't it happen to a four-year-old?

1077
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:42,360
Yeah, exactly.

1078
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,040
I mean, she's going to be eight in four years, you know?

1079
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:46,040
Yeah.

1080
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,040
So we do see them.

1081
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,560
I mean, it's so screwed up.

1082
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,080
What we always say is, if you see something, say something, but if you know something,

1083
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,080
say something.

1084
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,200
It's never too late to help somebody.

1085
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,440
You could very well be saving a life in the future.

1086
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:07,880
And even if it's documentation, it's you call and report suspected abuse of a child.

1087
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,400
And it turns out that they can't really do anything about it or something.

1088
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,200
Well, that's on record.

1089
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,160
And so many occurrences, they're like, okay, there's a pattern here.

1090
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:17,160
Something's going wrong.

1091
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,160
Something's wrong.

1092
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:19,160
Yeah.

1093
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,160
Yeah.

1094
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:21,160
Anyways.

1095
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,840
Well, dang, that was a doozy to bring on our first episode back in a couple weeks.

1096
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,360
So just a quick share.

1097
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:31,960
The National Domestic Violence Hotline can be reached at 1-800-799-7233.

1098
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,280
Once again, that's 1-800-799-7233.

1099
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,160
If you are a loved one or an immediate danger, call 911.

1100
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,640
Yeah, absolutely.

1101
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,200
All right.

1102
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,320
Thank you guys for joining us for another case.

1103
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,960
And like I said earlier, I am going to now announce who I am doing for my Patreon episode.

1104
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:57,000
For this month, I have decided to bring a case that is Russian.

1105
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Okay.

1106
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:04,160
And the person we are going to be talking about is Alexander Pichushkin, aka the chessboard

1107
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:05,160
killer.

1108
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:06,160
What?

1109
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,640
So we are talking about the chessboard killer.

1110
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:08,640
Never heard of her.

1111
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,600
Make sure you tune in to the Patreon to get access on that.

1112
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,960
Again, that is on the 29th of every month, which means it will be coming out a day after

1113
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,600
this episode releases.

1114
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,480
And that is only available for exclusive tier two and three Patreon members.

1115
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,480
Patrons.

1116
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,480
Patrons.

1117
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:24,480
Oh my gosh.

1118
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:25,480
I'm excited.

1119
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:26,480
We love you guys.

1120
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:27,480
Love you.

1121
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:28,480
Bye.

1122
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,480
Bye.

1123
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:37,040
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