Hello!
Welcome to another episode of Dying in Us Get Killer, the mental breakdown.
I'm Gwelle.
And I'm Kena.
Ment break.
How's it going?
It's going.
Yeah?
Just kind of a little overwhelmed with everything.
Just like earlier when I came home and I had like that ATP bag and that Walmart bag,
not that we're sponsored, but ran inside and then you guys were like, hey how's it going?
Or you're like, hey how's it going?
And mom was like, hey kiddo how's it going?
And then talking to my son.
And then right at that moment Cliff called and I was like, oh my god there's so much
chaos.
There's so much going on.
No, I have like a big paper coming up for school and so I'm worried, not worried about
that, but thinking about that that's like a big project that I want to do really well
on.
So that's kind of what's on my mind.
You know, you and I are both kicking ass though because yesterday I didn't leave my computer
for like five straight hours because I was just equation after equation after equation
after equation just trying to powerhouse through a lot of stuff and I think that yeah, it's
just we like to be busy.
Yeah, so you can't sit still.
Can't sit still.
What do you got for us?
Do you want to give us the handles?
Sure.
So if you are new here, welcome to the mental breakdown.
On Mondays we do an episode that we call the mental breakdown obviously and we talk about
something that we just think is interesting, maybe psychology, maybe an event, something
like that.
Thursday is our true crime case.
So if you're listening here, you probably like the mental breakdown so thanks for coming
back.
But if it is your first time, you can follow us anywhere on social media at diagnosingaKiller.
You can reach out to us via email at diagnosingaKiller at gmail.com and then actually X is at killer
diagnosis instead of at diagnosing a killer.
Done it to the Patreon if you feel so inclined, we have a couple of bonus episodes already
out but the tier two and three Patreons do get an additional bonus episode every 29th
of every month.
I don't think there is a- oh wait, why did I just think it was February?
Whoa.
I don't think there is a 29th this month.
I haven't decided on my case this month is what I think it was gonna say.
But we will let you guys know, we usually do like a week in advance.
What do we do for that?
Yeah, we do a little teaser trailer or photograph on Instagram or social media as
well as before.
Yeah, for sure.
So again, that is just tier two and three Patreon members and that's a content warning
free, really gory episode.
So go ahead and get over to Patreon if you are interested in that.
Ad free too.
Ad free, yes.
Oh, all the Patreon episodes are ad free.
That's true.
Duh.
All right, are you ready to talk about our topic?
Sure.
We're gonna- it's gonna be kind of like a- I don't wanna say an easy topic but I think
it's something that might be helpful to someone that might be going through it or experiencing
maybe a loved one that might be going through it.
Content warning, this episode contains discussions on mental health struggles, including substances
and self-harm.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.
Remember that your mental health comes first and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
So most of what I wanna talk about today is through the SeizeTheOckward.org website.
Okay.
And just on their very first front page, it is all about starting a conversation about
mental health and how it doesn't need to be uncomfortable.
It can make all the difference just by starting a conversation with a friend, for sure.
Which is what we do here.
Absolutely.
So again, all we're gonna be talking about is pretty much everything you're gonna find
on the SeizeTheOckward.org website.
So what are some signs that a loved one might be experiencing a mental health struggle?
They might be exhibiting like impulsive behaviors or being more irritable than usual, not functioning
like their usual selves, like a change in habits of how they dress, general appearance,
eating or sleeping habits, talking about feelings of loneliness or negative feelings,
excessive worry or anxiety, trouble concentrating or seem withdrawn or in their heads, substance
use.
And these signs might display themselves like they don't wanna hang out as much, their mind
seems to be elsewhere, anxious, they can't relax, they've gotten really negative about
life, they're not acting like themselves or are more irritable like we said earlier.
They're taking more risks than usual, maybe something that might be dangerous like driving
quickly or something.
They are taking more drugs or drinking more than usual and they are self-harming or self-harming.
Yeah, and a lot of those things that you mentioned are not gonna be immediately noticeable right
off the bat.
Like you're not just gonna, it's gonna be very rare for someone to come up and say,
hey look, I've been self-harming.
You know, unless they really trust you and they're ready to have that conversation.
But there are other signs for things like that, like especially with like drug use and stuff.
There's symptoms that come along with that.
Self-harm, there's obviously visible symptoms that can sometimes come along with that.
So just being on the alert, if you notice that someone's acting a certain way or maybe
they're not acting themselves, that might be another thing to just have in the back
of your mind to see if maybe that's also going on.
Yeah and like you said to your point, almost like something like anxiety you wouldn't really
be able to see but only maybe in body language, you know.
So someone bouncing their leg a lot or...
That's me currently, I'm doing that right now.
So even online, you can spot these signs as maybe posting captions, hashtags or emojis
that are overtly sad or negative or go beyond a sarcastic joke.
Liking posts or following accounts that promote negative behaviors even if they aren't sharing
it on their feeds.
Writing posts or comments that show impulsive behavior, irritability, hostility or indicate
insomnia.
And whether it's on social media and group chats or during a hangout, if you suspect
your friend is struggling, trust your gut.
Absolutely, yeah.
Definitely, you know, I have some friends that I know immediately if something's wrong
or even like with Casey, like even if he tries to lie through his teeth and say, I'm fine,
I'm like, no you're not, I can literally see it on your face.
See it on your face.
Like I know you're not fine.
So when you do have that relationship with someone, it is, I feel like easier to tell
when something's off.
Right.
So definitely don't take those things being off lightly, I guess.
Yeah, yeah.
So again, you know, reading verbatim from CZOquer.org, beginning the conversation doesn't mean that
you have to dive straight into talking about mental health struggles or have an intense
heart to heart.
Consider instead meeting your friend where they are or extending an invitation to hang
out.
You can even talk about your struggles that you're going through in order to give your
friend an avenue to open up.
Whether it's over a bite to eat or taking a simple walk, a what's up is a great place
to begin.
Yeah, no, for real, I think that a lot of the times when I recognize that I have a really
good intuition when it comes to like understanding people's emotions and how they react to things.
So certain friends of mine, I can say, dude, seriously, like what the fuck?
Yeah, you need to talk to me.
Yeah.
Other friends, I have to be more gentle and say, hey, it looks like you might need some
space, like let me know if you need me.
I'm here if you need me, but I'm not going to bug you because it's just going to make
them more frustrated.
Yeah.
So really again, it just depends on the person.
But even just a simple text, even when you don't think anything's wrong, maybe just a
simple text every now and then to just say, hey, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking
about you or hey, I appreciate your friendship or whatever because that goes a long way.
Yeah, absolutely.
So some ideas that CZOqua.org suggests to start a conversation would be asking a friend
to play a pick up game of your favorite sport, casually ask while playing an online game
together if they're OK, invite them to grab food after class or even just texting what's
up in a DM.
Yeah.
A text.
And like I said, I don't wait until I see negative signs of something to remind people
that I care about them and I'm thinking about them.
You know, you and I do that all the time.
I text you, I'm like, hey, just by the way, love you.
Love you, love you, love you.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, even going on a walk or taking a drive around the neighborhood together can be beneficial.
Just getting some, just get out on the open road.
Fuck no, I waste my gas on you.
I'm just kidding.
Pay me $5 in gas, I'll listen to your shit.
Yeah, you got that gas money back.
But some helpful tips that the website also suggests is that you keep it really casual.
This is not a therapy session.
You are not being paid to be someone's therapist.
Listen and let them take the lead, let them guide the conversation.
Avoid offering advice or trying to fix them.
Again, that's not your job.
Let them know that it is OK to feel the way that they're feeling.
Make yourself available even when not talking.
So much like you said, you know, just doesn't really have to be a full on conversation, but
just maybe a reminder that you're there.
Yeah, or even like those nonverbal cues.
Like if someone's expressing something and they're in a deep thought or whatever, instead
of interrupting, you can just lean in a little bit and tell them, OK, look, I'm here, I'm
still listening, or nod your head or whatever.
Or if the person is comfortable and you know that they're OK with touch, maybe touch their
shoulders or something.
Make sure that you let them open up to their own speed.
Don't demand answers.
Tell me now.
Tell me what's going on here.
Breakfast.
Use them to talk to a professional and let them know that you're not judging them and
let them know that what they say won't change how you feel about them.
Yeah, that's a big one too.
It's like you can tell me.
You can tell me.
Like I'm not going to freak out.
Like I'm not going to judge you.
You know, you can tell me.
I think that one of the coolest things that I've heard recently on TikTok, it's like
the way this family has their language.
If someone sits down and they want to vent before the conversation even starts, the person
on the receiving end of that venting asks, do you want advice or do you want solutions?
Or do you want just to talk?
Do you want advice or solutions?
Or do you just want to talk?
I think there's another way that they phrased it.
I don't know what they said exactly.
But I was like, that's a good way because I always immediately go into offering solutions
and advice, but sometimes people don't want to.
I'm trying to help you.
Yeah, for sure.
I think that I definitely have been in scenarios in the past in relationships where I've come
home from a long day of work and I just start bitching about whatever and the traffic was
awful.
And my partner is trying to give me advice or why don't you just da-da-da-da-da and I'm
like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm just venting.
I have to say it out loud because some people don't know what you want.
And so I think maybe that's another half of the conversations, maybe establish that first.
Yeah, for sure.
And also on the other end of this whole thing, being conscientious on your end of things,
when you want to vent to someone, I ask, do you have space?
Do you have room for me to vent to you right now?
Or do you have your own shit going on and you can't handle any more stress in your life?
And if it's not something emergent, obviously if it's something emergent, you don't need
to ask for permission to express that to someone if it's very serious.
But if I know I'm just complaining about this, something, a little thing that happened, but
it's really bugging me and I want to give in to my friend and I'm like, hey, do you
have a minute?
Can I vent to you for a second?
That's why that's me and Dana's verbiage.
Can I vent to you for a second?
Yeah, sure, whatever.
I know leading up to the festival, you were just talking about it every day, but just
a bunch of what-ifs, right?
What-if, what-if, what-if, what-if, what-if, what-if, what-if, what-if.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I know.
That's like, it's okay.
You're like, I don't want to put this on you.
I don't want to put this on you.
You're like, I know, I know.
But I'm keeping my cool now that eventually I lost it.
You did lose it a little bit.
That's another story.
It's a total other story, but no, we talked through it.
Everyone deals with things differently.
We've realized this the past couple of weeks that I very much handle my anxiety and my
stress out loud.
Out loud.
Like I have to tell someone or else it'll eat me alive.
Like I need to get this out.
Even if I don't get advice or even like a response, like an agreement, I just want it
to be out and open.
And I definitely have practiced being patient with myself and allowing myself internal space
to figure out what I want to say before I say it.
So in your case with you venting or expressing out loud and trying to get all that anxiety
out, I'm like, okay, this is like something else I'm taking and putting in my own bucket
so that I can process so I know what to say later.
But then after a while it doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
It's just taking it all.
I'm just taking it all in.
I'm like, uh-oh, uh-oh, my bucket's full now.
So I guess the main point is have the hard conversations before they become much harder.
That's true.
Yeah.
I'm really grateful for our relationship because I feel like we do know how we participate
in conversations we want to.
And I think that most of the time we're really good at being able to be like, okay, like
I need to say something now or I need to have this conversation with you now because you're
ready to have the conversation, even if I'm not.
And I have to just have to kind of like take that leap of faith that you're going to be
okay with it.
And vice versa.
You know, like sometimes you'll come in and you'll ask me a sentence or something and
then I can see you go, that's all I'm going to give her right now because if I continue
to talk, I'm just going to never stop.
You know, like, see you shut down.
It's a balance.
Yeah, anyways.
So it's totally understandable if your friend asks you to keep this a secret.
But when dealing with mental health struggles, it isn't always a good idea.
Again, this is from csvawkward.org.
To avoid breaking a promise, it's easier not to make one in the first place.
If your friend asks you to promise not to tell anyone, you can say something along the
lines of quote, I understand why you want me to promise not to tell anyone and I can
do that unless there is something that makes me really worried about you.
I'm always here for you and you and can go with you to get help if that's helpful to
you.
And quote, yeah, honestly, that's something that I really have to practice as well because
like we always say, like you and I are not licensed therapists, we're not asking anybody
to play the role of therapist in this.
However, it does kind of go along with that patient therapist confidentiality.
That confidentiality, however, can be breached if the patient is in danger of harming themselves
or someone else.
Right.
So going into that, they say, you promise you can't say anything.
I would probably say like, I'm not going to promise you that right now because I want
to make sure that you're okay.
Right.
Exactly.
And if I don't feel like you're okay, I'm not going to promise you that and then break
my promise.
Yeah.
I'd rather make sure you're good.
Right.
And I actually watched a TikTok with Cliff the other day where he said, promise not to
be mad.
She goes, I can't promise not to be mad, but I can let you know that I will regulate my
emotions to the best of my ability.
There you go.
And it's like something like that.
Right.
It's like, I can't promise you I won't say anything if it becomes a concern of mine.
Yeah.
What I can promise to do is be open-minded.
And hear you out.
And hear you.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So this allows you to preserve the trust that you have established with your friend while
leaving the door open for you to seek help from a trusted adult or professional in the
event that your friend later tells you that they feel like harming themselves or it gets
worse.
Yeah, exactly.
Like I would hate for me to say, oh, I promise I'm not going to say anything.
And then my friend's like, hey, I'm thinking about self-harming and I'm like, oh, shit.
Yeah.
And then you carry that.
Now you're carrying it.
It's your responsibility now to not tell anyone because they're going to get mad or whatever.
It's just a hard situation all around.
But it's an important conversation to have.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.
Your friend might be scared to ask for help or open up.
If you sense hesitation, you can start a conversation by talking about your own struggles, letting
them know that you are there for them no matter what and that you are always there to support
them.
A conversation doesn't always have to be how you extend a helping hand.
You can reach out by inviting them to hang out, to come to an event or an activity.
If you have a sense that they are needing more or might be comfortable talking to someone
else, you can offer to help make that connection for them.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's like, I don't feel comfortable talking to you, but I would want to talk to someone.
You know, offer resources or advice.
Or advice first so you can tell your friend, you know, okay, I think this conversation's
making me a little uncomfortable.
I think maybe you should go seek some help.
Can I help you find the help that you need?
Yeah, exactly.
And honestly, I feel like I've been in cases like that where I'm like, out of protection,
and I won't say this out loud, of course, but in my own self-preservation and keeping
in mind that I fear that if my friend does tell me something that it might change my
perception, my perception, and then I'll just suggest that I might not be the right person
to go to is what I'm saying.
Like if I'm ill-equipped to deal with it, then I'd rather them talk to a professional
is what I mean by that.
For sure.
Like, listen, I'm here for you, but I'm not licensed.
I'm not licensed.
Exactly.
I haven't been trained for this.
Yeah.
And then I get in my head where I'm like, I fear I'm going to say the wrong thing.
And then or give the wrong advice.
Give the wrong advice.
Exactly.
And it's, but again, I can be a lended ear to a certain point, but when I'm your only
source of an outlet, that's when it becomes tricky for me.
Oh, for sure.
No, I completely understand.
And that's not how it should be.
Like if someone is in actual need for mental health treatment, they need to seek a professional
end-all be-all.
Absolutely.
That's it.
However, normal things that a lot of us experience, such as anxiety, depression, things like that,
as long as it's not extreme, I think talking with a friend is good for that moment, at
least as a kind of way to get more help if needed.
So if you learn that your friend is being abused, a victim of trauma, or having suicidal
thoughts, they might need more help than you can provide.
The best thing you can do as a friend is to assist with getting help additionally, even
if it's hard for them to accept.
And they also have a resource tab as well on CsTheOckward.org where you can find all
of that extra get help page that they have.
Being a confidant is part of a friendship.
However, sometimes being a good friend requires you to break that trust to get your friend
long-term help.
Even if your friend becomes angry with you for telling someone, their safety is more
important.
Absolutely.
Consider that your friend may be angry for being outed, but they will likely appreciate
you that you cared enough about them to get the help that they actually need.
Absolutely.
It's exactly what I would...
I've been in situations before where I've had to make a judgment call, and in the moment
my friend was mad, but the next day they were thanking me.
Absolutely.
I was just trying to help you.
Absolutely.
That's happened to me as well.
I had an emergency phone call from someone.
I rushed to the location, but as I did, I called 911 because they were threatening themselves.
And when I got there, they were very upset at me, but it's an emergency.
Yeah, it is at that point.
Yeah, absolutely.
And they did end up getting some help, and yeah, I'm pretty sure that they're still in
a good place, so thinking about them for sure.
So that being said, it's important to know that sometimes friendships can suffer or
even end when a friend seeks professional help or a struggling friend.
Just know that you are doing the right thing and can take comfort that you played a role
for them in starting their road to recovery.
Yeah, absolutely.
Often just being there is enough for your friend, like you were saying earlier.
Listening to your friend, following up and checking in regularly can all be really great
ways to support, and being supportive doesn't have to be happening all at once either.
It can and usually is the little movements strung together that truly make an impact.
Even if the gesture is small like a text saying that you're thinking about them or how much
you appreciate them, it still matters.
The smallest of gestures can out up over time as a signal that you do care about your friend.
For sure.
Sorry.
So, one of the questions posed on the fax page of Csvawgward.org is, how involved should
I get, and what if I should start feeling overwhelmed?
Helping a friend who's going through something difficult, especially when it involves something
serious or intense feelings, can be exhausting.
It is important to know your own limits.
If you fall apart, you won't be able to help your friend at all.
Take care of yourself.
Indulging in self-care doesn't mean that you're a bad friend.
If you feel like you need to take a step back, communicate that to your friend.
Put yourself first and make sure that you're okay in order to continue to help and support
your friend.
Keep your day-to-day consistent.
Don't let your friend's mental health dramatically impact or change your routine or the way that
you interact with your friend.
If you should start acting differently around them, this could discourage them from seeking
help and will likely wear on you in ways that negatively affect your friendship.
Which I found very interesting.
Because again, I've definitely been in situations where I say, I have to self-preserve.
I cannot be around this.
I have to step back.
But I thought that was really interesting that if you change your routine, they're going
to feel potentially even more burdened.
Like, oh, you're having to rearrange your life for me.
I should just shut up so it doesn't affect you.
That's not good for anybody.
It's not good for anybody.
Be honest about being in over your head with your friend and recognize when you went too
far and set a boundary for yourself.
Being a supportive friend can have many definitions, but there are some things to avoid.
Again, this is C's The Awkward Dot Org.
Don't take their behavior or comments personally.
Don't give ultimatums.
For example, don't say, quote, if you don't stop hurting yourself, I won't be friends
with you anymore.
End quote.
Don't tease or share private information in group settings or group chats.
Respect your friend's feelings and privacy.
That is huge.
That's so huge.
It's so huge.
Because if you go around just talking, I mean, how awkward is that?
I know it's C's The Awkward Dot Org, but how?
That's the amount of betrayal.
If I felt so uncomfortable, then you're the only person that I can open up to about this,
and then I found out that you told everyone else I would be so mortified.
I would be too.
And that's like, at the end of the day, that's not even being a good friend, telling other
people about personal business.
No, it's like you're almost like you're using it as ammunition at that point.
You're probably not the best friend in the world.
Definitely don't do that.
Don't do that.
Don't get frustrated if your friend doesn't have the same perspective as you on the situation,
which is another really big one, I think.
I think perception can be a really big triggering point for some people.
That's how I'm being perceived and that's how you're perceiving someone else when it's
really not maybe what's really going on in their head.
Or even a situation, the person that is asking for help might perceive the initial conversation
as something really, really scary.
The other person on the receiving end might be like, oh, it was just a regular conversation.
It doesn't matter if I tell people or whatever.
Perceiving the initial conversation about it as well is a big thing.
I think going into that point is almost like overanalyzing the situation might be harmful
too because if someone's coming to you and they just say, I've just been feeling a little
depressed lately and you take that as something more extreme.
You have depression or whatever.
Then it could be, oh my gosh, well then I'll just shut down then because I just wanted
to vent, like he said, or get this off my chest, but now I'm being perceived as someone
who's a danger to themselves or others.
But on the flip, it's like you want to be overly cautious because you care about your
friend, but that's where the conversation needs to happen.
Yeah, it's definitely the communication that's key here.
It needs to grow a little bit more, right?
Don't shame, blame, or guilt your friend for their feelings or actions.
Avoid accusing statements with things like you instead of you, instead of you's I instead
of you.
For example, don't say you are being irresponsible and reckless.
Others say I'm concerned that you might hurt yourself and what makes me worry since I
care about you, or that makes me worry since I care about you.
Don't engage in activities that will likely make things worse, such as using alcohol or
other drugs to distract from negative feelings.
Yeah, you want to talk about your mental health?
Let's go to the bar.
Yeah, exactly.
Because we can talk about it.
Let's talk about it over some brusquies.
Yeah, no, we're not having a good idea.
Let's get high so we can mash all these feelings down.
But most of all, don't give up.
Giving a positive attitude will help your friends stay strong and provide them the strength
to be healthier and get better.
Oh, that's sweet.
I like that.
Yeah.
So that's it.
Again, that's from seizetheawkward.org.
Awesome research we have now since added it to our diagnosingkiller.com website under
our resources tab.
So there you can of course find other links to other resources as well.
For sure.
Yeah, just get the conversation started y'all.
We just love you guys so much and of course we want to always have these conversations
with y'all as well.
And again, being at the festival, we had the benefit of having some personal conversations
with people about their struggles with depression or maybe even self-harm or some of the experiences
that they've had and the toll that it takes on them mentally.
And I think again, that's kind of what bonds us as a community, the diagnosingkiller community,
and other podcast communities because we all have a background in something that is affected
us mentally.
And yeah, I just want to make sure that you guys are still having those conversations
on the ground floor.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think if I'm not mistaken, I know that you chose the topic this week and I didn't
have a hand in that.
But if I'm not mistaken, I would probably have chosen the same topic or something similar
because we have had those conversations lately, especially from the festival.
People were like, oh my god, this is so important.
Like this take on true crime is so important.
No one else is talking about this.
This needs to be talked about more.
So that's a really good kind of perfect timing, I guess, if you will, to bring that in.
A little refresher on how we can all be better communicators.
Yeah, for sure.
Well, thank you guys for joining us.
We will see you guys on Thursday with another case and then send us your requests so we
can continue to do those.
Yeah.
Love you.
Bye.
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