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Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koelle. And I'm Kenna.

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How's it going? I'm in a sultry voice today. Yeah. So those laps, bro. This is my normal speaking voice.

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Yeah, I'm super strong. Yeah. I was like, I have like a, I guess like a sleeping cramp or something? Like in my neck, my lower neck. So I was like, rubbing

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my shoulder out. I like turned my head like I look like one of those bros that just came back from the chin.

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Oh, you're looking for the chin? That's right over there.

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Oh, you're my shoulder pop. Yeah, I did. That way. Watch it. You see my beach ball. Ow! Oh my gosh. Actually, okay, I'm gonna stop moving around.

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Just sit still. How's everyone doing? You know, it's going good. Well, I definitely wanted to, before we get into your case, take over for a second and shout out all of our peeps that responded to our

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Instagram story about where you were from, which is super cool. Oh, I haven't heard this. I know. So we got a bunch of different responses. So we have Canada, we have

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Tuscumbia, Alabama, which is home of Helen Keller, apparently. Oh. Pensacola, Florida from the UK, but living in the Netherlands, Texas, of course. South America,

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Bellingham, Washington, SoCal. Movication said we aren't entirely sure where Cole is from. And then Brady said the upside down. Yeah. So thank you guys for those responses. I was just interested.

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Cole's from outer space. We had to know. Oh yeah, he's definitely an alien. He was, yeah, he's an alien that was raised by butterflies. Is that what he says? Yeah. No, that's what I say. Oh.

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Well, thank you guys for responding. We really like to know about people listening to us. I know, like, I always say this, I know we have listeners all over the world, but it makes it

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more real when you hear a specific place. Yeah. And then someone is like, Hey, I live here, and I listen to you. And I'm like, how the hell did you even find us?

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Where did you search that? Did you search that? Did you know to search that? That's so cool. No, but we did get a really nice message from a listener in India.

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Ooh. So, Shana, I think is how you pronounce it, says, Hi, I'm a new listener all the way from India. I'm a huge true crime fan, and I'm actually an aspiring psychology student.

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And I just wanted to say that you guys are amazing. I've only recently discovered your podcast, and I must say I'm hooked. I love how it's not just this is a person, they killed this many people, and this is how they killed them, but actually a deep dive into the psyche of these criminals and their history.

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I'm definitely going to be binging your podcast. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. I loved that message. Of course, I responded. And they also suggested a case, so we will look into that for sure.

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But yeah, thank you so much. And she said, I hope you guys are doing well. Thank you for reading this, if or whenever you do. Of course, we're going to write it. The time difference.

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Yeah, exactly. The time difference gave us a little bit of a different responding time, I guess, for normal. But we really appreciate it. And we love, obviously, love hearing from you guys.

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We got another message from another listener that sent us a meme. I think I reposted it. It says, My heebies are fucking jeeveed. Oh, yeah.

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This reminded me of you all. I was like, yes, I love it. Heebies and the jeebies. But yeah, thank you guys a lot for reaching out to us.

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Yes. And if you want to continue reaching out to us, you can check out diagnosingaKiller.com. There you can find links to merch and resources.

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You can also get that coupon code to see us in Austin in August, late August, at the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival.

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You get 15% off with our coupon code, D-A-K-P-O-D. Catch us on social media, anywhere, at diagnosingaKiller, other than Twitter or X, which is at Killer Diagnosis.

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Email us, rate us, review us. Yeah, definitely do that. Love those reviews. Love those reviews. You guys have made better about that. You guys are great.

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You guys are great. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be like, get better. Yeah, better. Once you know better, do better. Do better.

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Here we are to say, do better. Just kidding. We can all do better, though. Love you guys. Love you. Ready? Yeah.

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Today we are going to be talking about a one Rachel Mullenix. Do you know who that is? It sounds kind of familiar. Rachel Mullenix. Okay.

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Mullenix. Content warning. This episode describes mental, emotional, physical abuse towards adults and minors, sexual assault, alcohol and drug use, and threats of self-harm.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes. Remember, your mental health comes first and we love you. Love you. Bye.

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So Rachel Mullenix. Okay. It sounds like a doozy of a content warning already. It is a bit, yeah. One early at mid-September morning in 2006. Whoa.

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He's throwing me for a loop already. I know, right? It's like the Zach Bowen case. A Newport Beach Yacht Club member was attempting to take a sail out of Beacon Bay when he came across something odd in the water.

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He noticed what appeared to be a bed sheet. Upon closer inspection, the man was horrified to realize that this bed sheet contained the body of a woman. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? I can't. I can't even. Simply cannot.

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It's so odd. I cannot even. He immediately noticed. Oh my God. I just got that. I'm sorry. He immediately notified police who arrived on the scene shortly after. The woman was removed from the water and placed on the pier for further inspection.

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The woman had been stabbed over 50 times in all various shapes and sizes, the wounds. Oh my God. Most of her injuries being to her chest, head and neck.

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She had defensive wounds on her hands, and her jugular and carotid arteries had been severed by three separate stab wounds to her neck. That sounds extremely personal. Yeah.

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A small, partially closed pocket knife was within the bedding that the woman was wrapped in. The knife still contained blood and tissue attached to it, which is horrific. There are photos.

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Perhaps the most disturbing detail of the state of the body was that a butter knife was still lodged in the woman's right eye socket, the handle protruding from her skull. Oh my God. Horrific. That is so much force.

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That's so much force, and like you just left, like you left it. Rage. Like you didn't, like, with as much rage as you're experiencing when you're stabbing someone 50 times, leaving it in there is deliberate.

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That's absolutely deliberate. I was just thinking, and I know I'm sure other listeners are thinking as well, when it's a crime like this, it seems very personal, and you want to essentially mutilate or kind of get rid of the face so that you don't have to look at that person.

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Yeah. Which means you did that to make yourself feel better, and then you had no fucking empathy at all by leaving the knife. Absolutely. That's ridiculous.

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In an effort to identify the woman, investigators attempted to obtain fingerprints from the victim, however, due to her being in the water for what seemed to be at least 12 hours, investigators were unable to collect fingerprints initially. Oh no.

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Strangely, when scouring the area for further clues, investigators came across a cardboard box floating not far from where the body was found. This box was for a 27 inch TV and also had duct tape attached to the outside of it.

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Detectives thought that maybe this was the box used to house the body in transport, and the box was then collected for evidence.

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Another peculiar find was an abandoned Volvo that was parked in Corona del Mar, just six minutes from where the body was found, a six minute drive.

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The woman's body was taken to the county medical examiner's office where an autopsy was performed. It was determined that the woman had breast implants, and once removed, detectives were able to make out

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lot numbers and serial numbers imprinted on the implants. So they can find her doctor and they can find her records.

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Manufacturers, much like we see on any other kind of product, put these numbers on their products to detect batches of products that were produced under the same conditions at the same time.

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So if there's ever a recall or a medical thing, they'd be able to track down essentially who purchased this product from breast implants to serial.

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From the information gathered on the implant, it was determined that this particular implant was manufactured in France, was used in an operation in Oklahoma, and registered to a woman who now lived in California.

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Dang, maybe flying them all over the place.

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I know right, from France to Oklahoma. The victim was then identified as Barbara Milonix from Huntington Beach, California, which was just a 12 minute drive from where her body was found.

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That's the same last name as the perpetrator.

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Oh, interesting.

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Barbara Ann was born on May 29th, 1950. This is how our episodes typically start.

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Yeah.

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In Munich, Bavaria, Germany. She's actually German.

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Barbara's family moved to the States when she was still young, settling in Oklahoma City area.

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Not much to find out about Barbara's young life, but what we do know is that Barbara had always had aspirations of becoming an actress.

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Her favorite movie was Gone with the Wind and she did love movies.

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Unfortunately, at age 18, Barbara was the victim of a rape, which resulted in a pregnancy.

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Oh my gosh.

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Barbara carried the baby to term and would give the child up for adoption.

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Barbara was devastated as her other aspiration in life was to be a wife and a mom.

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Oh, that's so sad.

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So giving up this child was very difficult for her.

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Barbara would eventually get married to a local man, and she was over the moon when she found out that she would be having a baby boy.

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The couple named him Ashley or Alex. He goes by Alex.

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However, the couple would not last, divorcing just a few short years later.

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Alex would be mostly raised by his father, who was more established at the time of the divorce,

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although sometimes Alex did stay at his mom's house and it was kind of more of a shared custody arrangement.

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Alex remembers his mother running a pretty tight ship, a clean house, and was always well put together.

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However, at times she could be very controlling.

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When Alex began to get jobs and work, he said his mother would sometimes call his job in an effort to cause confrontation or to have Alex fired,

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as she only wanted the kids to stay home and around her.

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That sounds very controlling.

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I said kids, but kid.

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This was a level of control and manipulation that Barbara was capable of, and he, that's the kind of house the whole team grew up in.

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And Barbara is the future victim.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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He later revealed on a phone interview conducted by forensicfilesnow.com,

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quote, my mom would call our jobs, our bosses, and start problems for no reason.

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She did it because she felt like she was losing control of us.

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But you can't do stuff like that because bosses will fire you.

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Yeah, exactly.

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He said about the house growing up, quote, I'd have my friends come over and they think that when my mom was cool,

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she would buy us popsicles or rubies or whatever.

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And then the minute they were gone, I thought they don't really know her.

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She could be like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

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Even my girlfriend at the time could see it, end quote.

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Oh my God.

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That's like definitely some sort of personality disorder it sounds like.

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Yeah, I think so.

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And I don't know if it's due to the sexual assault that she experienced in giving up her first child for adoption,

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that maybe she felt like she had to keep control over her kid.

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Absolutely.

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Just to make sure maybe nothing would happen to him or yeah.

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Well, that's an understanding feeling, but I feel like the links that it's gone to,

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like that's not normal.

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Right, yeah, exactly.

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In the mid 1980s, ready for love again, Barbara would meet the man who would change the course of her life.

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Oh my God, that's your favorite line.

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I'm just kidding.

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But she did meet a Bruce Mullenix who was nine years her junior.

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Nine years her junior?

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Yeah, that's a term.

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What's that mean?

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It means he's nine years younger.

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Wow, you just expressed your old age.

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Yeah, or if it was nine years her senior, he would be older.

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I've never heard that expression.

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I hope I'm using that right.

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I'm pretty sure I am.

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Email us.

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Email us.

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Email us.

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Bruce had previously graduated from Oklahoma State University in 1984 where he achieved a

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Bachelor of Science in Management Science and Computer Systems.

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That is a mouthful.

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Dang, how many times did you just say that?

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Right.

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The couple would marry within a few years of dating in 1987.

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Bruce was 27 years old when the couple married, making Barbara about 36.

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Soon the couple would welcome their daughter in 1989, Rachel Mullenix.

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Oh, I thought that Rachel was going to be the one that was put out for adoption years prior.

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And then she came back and got mad.

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Venge, yeah.

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Just a bunch of Venge.

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Rachel was described by her brother Alex as, quote, a good kid.

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She made good grades.

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She was on a couple basketball teams.

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She did ballet and she did gymnastics, end quote.

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So she was really doing it all.

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Yeah.

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Alex recalled how his mother doted on Rachel at times by saying, quote,

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she dressed Rachel in the best clothes and taught her the best manners, end quote.

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So it's like she's the favorite child.

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Yeah, she's the little doll.

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Yeah.

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Mostly the small family seemed to be doing well.

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Bruce often traveled for work, so the mother daughter duo were usually left to care for

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the house and for one another.

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However, after an uncertain amount of time, Bruce noticed that his wife seemed to be

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drinking heavier and heavier.

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Oh.

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Barbara would cause arguments mostly when she was drunk.

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And he was seeing a side of Barbara that he had not previously seen before and was shocked

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that on occasion, Barbara would get so upset and drunk that she would get violent with him

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and Rachel.

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Oh my gosh.

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On at least one occasion, Bruce called the cops and child protective services on his

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own wife after an altercation between Barbara and Rachel.

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And Rachel became physical when Rachel was just about 12 or 13 years old.

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Oh my God.

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That's so awful.

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Nothing.

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Don't fucking expose kids to adult problems.

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Right?

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I hate that.

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Well, it's like, you know, again, she's already having this control issue, but she's also

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dealing with probably a lot of depression.

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Yeah.

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And so she's coping with that by drinking.

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Not only that, but I think at this time she was also taking prescription medications

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for various things.

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And she probably has PTSD.

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Yeah.

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And she's all of those feelings with a depressant like alcohol are going to come out and

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they're going to turn to anger because she doesn't know how to handle her sadness.

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Yeah.

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That's why she's drinking.

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And the only place that's going to go is outward to other people and, you know, potentially

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cause disorders for other people because she's influencing her children this way too.

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That's traumatic for everybody involved.

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On one occasion, Barbara had claimed that her daughter attacked her with a knife, bearing

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at least two to three superficial slash marks on her right arm.

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Rachel had what appeared to be a bite mark on her arm, but later testified that the mark

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was self-inflicted.

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So this did go all the way to court.

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Okay.

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Yet another time that the cops recalled, Rachel said that she had left the house once things

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became physical.

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After police contacted Rachel, who had left her a friend's house that night, no charges

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were filed.

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She essentially said, my mom was drunk.

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We got into an argument.

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Things might have gotten physical, but I'm not coming back to the house.

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I met a friend's house.

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I am safe.

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She's alone.

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She's probably about, well, at this point, she's probably like 14, 15, but still.

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But still, she shouldn't be allowed to make that decision for herself.

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And I personally don't think that what should have been up to her to drop the charges because

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she's a minor.

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Well, yeah, I think the dad should have definitely been had a say in that.

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And I don't know whether or not Bruce actually witnessed it or what the circumstance was.

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Yeah.

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He did say that it became physical, but who's to know if like he saw the after effects?

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Yeah, that's true.

201
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I mean, it's kind of hard too because, you know, you want to think that like, oh, a kid

202
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,000
wouldn't make something up like that, but sometimes it happens.

203
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:48,480
Yeah.

204
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,480
You know, and then the father goes to jail, you know, the mother goes to jail and then

205
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,920
there wasn't actually anything that happened.

206
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,280
It definitely seemed like in an effort to protect her mother, Rachel said, I did this

207
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:57,840
to myself.

208
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,320
Yeah.

209
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,360
And yeah, I did wield a knife, but she's also a minor.

210
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,320
She was worried that her mom was going to get in serious trouble or something.

211
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,640
And I've seen it before that it gets sold that way.

212
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:07,440
You're the minor.

213
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,320
If you say that you did these things, you're not going to get in trouble, but if you say

214
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,720
that I did these things to you, I'm going to get in trouble.

215
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:13,120
Exactly.

216
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:13,280
Yeah.

217
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,240
So take the fall.

218
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:15,200
Yeah, it's true.

219
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,400
Oh, gosh, it's heartbreaking.

220
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,040
That is awful.

221
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,960
That's way too much for a young girl to think about.

222
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:19,360
Absolutely.

223
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,720
She has other shit going on.

224
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:21,280
Yeah.

225
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,240
So apparently any further investigation into this was never open on Barbara, no cases

226
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,120
or anything.

227
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,640
And looking into the home, it did seem that the small family was doing well.

228
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,640
They had a big house, big bedrooms, and all the things that Rachel could have needed.

229
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,680
There was even photos all around the house of big birthday parties.

230
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,720
So it just seemed like a big smokescreen for the abuse.

231
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:41,360
Yeah, absolutely.

232
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,160
And also I was going to say, I feel like if any incident happens like that, especially

233
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,240
when it includes minors, even if the charges were dropped, that should still remain on

234
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,840
her record so that in case something else happens in the future, you know that it's

235
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,640
a repeating thing and not just a single moment that happened or whatever, like a once occurrence

236
00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,280
or whatever.

237
00:16:59,280 --> 00:16:59,600
Yeah.

238
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,680
And I wonder if just because charges were dropped, you know, you know, you're not

239
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,280
a lawyer because charges were dropped that like that paperwork just goes bye bye.

240
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:07,920
I don't know.

241
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:08,720
Yeah, exactly.

242
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,080
Just goes bye bye.

243
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,200
Bruce said, quote, Barbara had a problem.

244
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,960
When she got more and more into drinking, things started to get real bad.

245
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:17,680
End quote.

246
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,600
Another quote, she was a crazy mean drunk.

247
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,320
End quote.

248
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,640
And that's like, I mean you got to feel like you're walking on eggshells in your own house.

249
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:27,280
Yeah.

250
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,960
Like if, oh as soon as she has a drink, I can imagine the stress that everyone was like,

251
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,800
oh shit, like, you know, she has a drink.

252
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:33,840
Oh, she's got a drink in her hand.

253
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:34,400
It's going to go.

254
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,680
What's the next few hours going to look like?

255
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,400
Exactly.

256
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,040
Fuck.

257
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,520
You should, no one should ever have to fucking worry about shit like that.

258
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,440
Things got so bad, in fact, that Bruce did file for divorce from Barbara in 2002.

259
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,720
Alex recalled the sense of escalation and his mother's behavior stating, quote,

260
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,480
I did move in with my mother in 2003 when she lived in Oklahoma.

261
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,480
A couple of times when I was about to leave, she self-inflicted wounds and threatened to

262
00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,520
say that I did it to her.

263
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:00,400
Oh my god.

264
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,040
She chased me around the house of the baseball bat.

265
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,000
Rachel told me about the same kind of behavior, end quote.

266
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,520
So it's not a one off thing or it didn't happen.

267
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,520
Like it's clearly happening and she's using her kids as a catalyst to get away with it

268
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,360
because she's threatening that they're going to get in trouble.

269
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:16,800
Yeah, that's ridiculous.

270
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,680
Like he's like going to come stay with her and then he's like, oh, I'm going to move out

271
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,920
because shit is way too intense here.

272
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,600
And then she threatens to put him in jail or something.

273
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:25,920
Yeah.

274
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,280
So like you don't want him to leave.

275
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:27,840
What are you going to do?

276
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,560
Get him arrested?

277
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:29,760
He's going to leave then, you know?

278
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,440
Well, at least he would probably still be dependent on her because, you know.

279
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,720
But it sounds like an empty, I'm not an empty threat, but it sounds like she thinks like,

280
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,360
oh, I just have to say this to my kids and they'll just mind me.

281
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:42,000
They won't.

282
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,400
They won't.

283
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:42,800
Yeah, exactly.

284
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,160
They won't turn me in or anything.

285
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:50,240
Bruce agreed to alimony and child support as Barbara wanted to relocate to Tampa, Florida

286
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,160
after learning that Bruce's plans were to move to Huntington Beach, California.

287
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,680
He didn't apply for custody of both children?

288
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,280
Well, Alex at this point, I think, is old enough to live out of the house.

289
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:01,840
Oh, okay.

290
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,400
But still.

291
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:02,720
Yeah.

292
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,400
So he was moving to and from.

293
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,440
He even said that he moved away to Portland, Oregon, I think it was, just to get away.

294
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,480
Even though like Bruce, though, knowing what's happened in the past,

295
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,720
like I would be fighting for custody of my child.

296
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,240
I would not want my child to be with her.

297
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:16,640
Yeah.

298
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,760
Well, I think that maybe he was like, I would like to move to Huntington Beach

299
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,440
and maybe you guys can move in the area, just not with me.

300
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,200
And I think she was more like, no, I'm taking your daughter

301
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,520
and I'm moving onto the other side of the country.

302
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:30,720
Of course, the country, yeah.

303
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,440
So that you, you know, just to be as far away as possible.

304
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,040
Because she, I mean, she took the money

305
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,240
and the one person she can manipulate clearly is Rachel.

306
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,280
Yeah, that's true.

307
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,080
If you're not from America, Huntington Beach is in California.

308
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:42,560
I'm sorry, yeah.

309
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,000
And Tampa Bay is in Florida.

310
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:44,080
Florida.

311
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,520
And they're on the opposite side of the country.

312
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:47,200
So yeah.

313
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,320
Bruce did not want to be so far away from his daughter,

314
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,720
but he couldn't wait to get away from Barbara.

315
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,800
So the two agreed that Rachel would stay with Barbara

316
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,120
while she finished high school, which is another thing, right?

317
00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:57,520
Okay.

318
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,480
Rachel was not thrilled about this arrangement,

319
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,680
of course, one could imagine.

320
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,200
Rachel began to turn to other means of receiving

321
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,120
positive attention and began hanging around

322
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,960
maybe some people that she should not have been.

323
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,240
Well, she's being shown like the worst kind of behavior

324
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,600
at home is to say that she's not gonna try to do that on her,

325
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:16,320
do that herself.

326
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:16,800
Right.

327
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,520
To complain of that game, I'll become a fucking delinquent,

328
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:19,920
you know?

329
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:20,560
Exactly.

330
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,520
She did start smoking weed and she did begin to drink

331
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:24,960
and go to parties on the weekends.

332
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,240
And that's also coping as well.

333
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,680
Yeah, she's also done, I mean, her mom is modeling this behavior.

334
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:30,480
Exactly.

335
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,600
She says, this is what you do when you get upset about something.

336
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,000
When you're upset.

337
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,040
When you're upset, you drink.

338
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,240
You drink, you party.

339
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:36,480
Yeah.

340
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,120
So remember, she's just now starting school, a new school.

341
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,480
She's a girl from Oklahoma.

342
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,840
She has to fit in very quickly.

343
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,760
So that also probably plays a factor.

344
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,400
Barbara seemed to not have a problem with this oftentimes,

345
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,280
as Barbara would invite some of Rachel's friends over

346
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,080
to drink and smoke the night away on a few occasions.

347
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,040
She would be like the one hosting.

348
00:20:59,040 --> 00:20:59,520
Yeah.

349
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,320
Oh my God, fucking the Colonel.

350
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,440
I'm not like a regular mom.

351
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,000
I'm a cool mom.

352
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,960
Call me the Colonel.

353
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,480
Yeah, call me the Colonel, exactly.

354
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,760
Again, I think this is Barbara's attempt at either being a cool mom

355
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,840
or the hot mom or the relative mom.

356
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,080
Or she's like, fuck it, if I have all of her friends come over here

357
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,760
and they like me, then she won't leave.

358
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:14,560
Exactly.

359
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,120
Because she'll be at my house doing what she wants to do anyway.

360
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,600
That was gonna be absolutely my next point,

361
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,320
that she was gonna essentially keep an eye out

362
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,600
on all of Rachel's friends.

363
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,800
Because like you said, all of Rachel's friends like her.

364
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,480
Not only that, but if they're a bad influence,

365
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,640
she can be like don't hang out with that guy or whatever.

366
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,440
Yeah, or she could, I mean, you know how Alex was saying

367
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,560
that his mom was a completely different person in front of the company.

368
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,160
Maybe she was like, you know, now if Rachel tries to talk

369
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,240
shit about me to her friends, her friends aren't gonna believe her.

370
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,920
Because they know me and they think I'm cool.

371
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,880
Yeah, exactly.

372
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,440
Yeah, so many motives.

373
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,240
So many motives.

374
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,160
Rachel and her mother lived in Tampa for just a short while,

375
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,240
before Barbara reached out to Bruce with a big ask.

376
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,400
The alimony and child support that Barbara had been receiving

377
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,800
seemingly wasn't enough to keep the two afloat on their own.

378
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,560
So I did a little bit of internet sleuthing, right?

379
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,040
And I found where they lived.

380
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:09,680
Oh my god.

381
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,000
Two bedroom apartment, $2,500.

382
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,920
In Florida?

383
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:14,880
In Tampa, Florida.

384
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,280
Today?

385
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,600
Well, I mean, this was just in mid-2000s.

386
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,880
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot.

387
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,320
It's a lot of money.

388
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,600
It's a lot of money.

389
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,560
I looked at the map.

390
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,680
I looked at the street view.

391
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,920
It's a very nice, quiet community.

392
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,000
It's a really nice area.

393
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,560
Do you have to be paying 12?

394
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,480
Let's not even say that.

395
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:35,760
Let's not even call it $2,500.

396
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,920
Let's just call it $2,000 a month, okay?

397
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,680
For inflation, because let's all face it.

398
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:40,560
We're going through it right now.

399
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,200
So let's say $2,000 a month for a two bedroom apartment

400
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,240
in a swanky area.

401
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,720
It's almost essentially like a, it kind of looks like a townhome.

402
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,800
I think they're apartments. You're telling me you can't downsize a little bit?

403
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,120
Yeah.

404
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,640
You're receiving alimony and child support.

405
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,280
Oh, I haven't mentioned this either, but Barbara doesn't work.

406
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:57,920
Oh.

407
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,280
Barbara has not worked.

408
00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:59,920
Okay.

409
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,680
This whole time she has not worked.

410
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,520
So she's just relying on the child support

411
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,800
and the alimony.

412
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,000
And now she's asking for more, even though she has essentially more than enough,

413
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,080
or she could choose to live a little humbly and not have to spend so much on it.

414
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,600
No, I have to spend so much, right?

415
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,000
Okay.

416
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:16,720
Okay.

417
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,080
So just want to make sure that all clear.

418
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,800
She has to support her drug and alcohol habit though.

419
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,400
Well, of course. Well, that's probably where the money's going.

420
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:22,480
Exactly.

421
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:22,800
I was saying.

422
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,360
Exactly. Yeah.

423
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,680
Just makes me wonder about how much Bruce is paying.

424
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,960
Bruce, you keep that secret to yourself.

425
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:27,600
You don't have to tell us.

426
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:27,760
Don't tell us.

427
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,640
But I'm just saying.

428
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:28,960
You know.

429
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,360
So again, with Barbara wanting to pursue her acting career,

430
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,400
she asked if Rachel and her could move in with Bruce

431
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,120
in his small Huntington Beach condo.

432
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,320
She didn't want to go there.

433
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,040
She didn't want to go there.

434
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,960
Well, she was like, oh, it's close enough to LA.

435
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:43,840
I'll just make it big.

436
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,480
But in the meantime, can we stay with you?

437
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:52,880
You know, either that or I think that she was financially

438
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,920
pushed with Bruce.

439
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,880
And I think that she's like, let's move back in.

440
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:57,440
Yeah.

441
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,080
And have, because apparently I say it was a small condo,

442
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,320
but Barbara would have her own room.

443
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,240
And I'm assuming so did Rachel.

444
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,960
So that's a three bedroom condo in Huntington Beach.

445
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,160
And it's like a ride on the water.

446
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:08,960
It's really pretty.

447
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,760
So I was just going to make a comment.

448
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:19,600
I'm like, you know, I can't stand that mindset of I'm going

449
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,040
to try this one thing.

450
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,240
I'm going to get really good at it.

451
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,200
And I'm going to be rich.

452
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,480
And I'm just going to do that.

453
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,280
And if that doesn't work out, and that sucks, my one thing,

454
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,360
I'm like, you know, you and I talk about all the time,

455
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:31,680
like if this podcast blows up, cool,

456
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,880
but I'm not fucking sitting around waiting for it to blow up.

457
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,760
I'm working.

458
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,200
I'm going to school.

459
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,320
You're going to school like to try to make our lives better

460
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,200
in the future.

461
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,880
Just in case this doesn't work out.

462
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,760
Just in case.

463
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,640
It would be nice.

464
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,440
It would be nice.

465
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Yeah.

466
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,800
I'm not relying on it.

467
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,040
Right.

468
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,120
You know, when that sounds like she's relying on it.

469
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,040
She's like, I'm going to rely on him to pay for me.

470
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,080
Well, I don't do anything.

471
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,680
And I'll just make it big and make it big.

472
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:54,320
Make it big.

473
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,960
Someone will just come around and like give me their lead

474
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:57,760
role in a movie.

475
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,720
You know how many people go to LA and fail every day?

476
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,760
Well, yeah, it's kind of a problem.

477
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,600
Yeah, it is a problem.

478
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,280
From what I understand, I've never been.

479
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,400
Louis, tell us.

480
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,040
Tell us.

481
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:09,520
Tell us.

482
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,320
Yes.

483
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,000
So again, Bruce thinking that he was done with Barbara for forever

484
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000
still couldn't leave his daughter hanging.

485
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,880
I don't blame him.

486
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,040
And Rachel begged to be back with him.

487
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,440
She was like, Dad, please, please.

488
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,920
I need to not be with just her.

489
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,160
Yeah.

490
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,600
I mean, I don't blame her.

491
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,360
So Bruce agreed to have the two move in sometime early 2006.

492
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,120
I would have been like, Rachel move home with me.

493
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,160
Barbara figured out.

494
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,200
Barbara, fuck off Barbara.

495
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,240
Figured out.

496
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:34,960
Fuck off Janet.

497
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Now go to your fucking baby shower.

498
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,680
Go to your fucking baby shower, Janet.

499
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,960
Barbara found some acting gigs more specifically

500
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,520
or maybe ironically on CSI.

501
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,320
Oh my god.

502
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,120
Isn't that crazy?

503
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:48,080
Yeah, that is wild.

504
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:48,960
She was an extra.

505
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,480
She had small extra parts,

506
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,720
but it did give Barbara kind of a sense of drive

507
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,480
that maybe it wasn't so far fetched

508
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,400
that she could become a full-time actress.

509
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,440
She's like, I'll just do this extra position really well.

510
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,800
And they'll be like, oh my god, you have the face.

511
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,360
You have it.

512
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:02,480
You have it.

513
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,320
She looked right really well.

514
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,480
Yeah, she stood there silently.

515
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,600
Really great.

516
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,320
She was great.

517
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,600
She was so great.

518
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,680
Rachel seemed to be doing well enough in school,

519
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,240
but eventually was able to convince her parents

520
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,240
that opposed to traditional schooling,

521
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,240
she wished to be placed in an alternative school

522
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680
that only required her to be on campus once or twice a week.

523
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,880
So it's kind of like ace.

524
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:23,920
Yeah, I get that.

525
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,920
Because this girl has gone through so much already.

526
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,640
She's probably so fucking overwhelmed.

527
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,120
Yeah.

528
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:32,560
Just with everything.

529
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,640
And if she's still going to be able to get her GED

530
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,080
at the end of it, I support her.

531
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:36,880
Yeah, for sure.

532
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,360
Or maybe even get a high school diploma.

533
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,520
She's like, this is what I can do.

534
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,280
Yeah, and I know what I'm capable of.

535
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,480
I at least want to graduate.

536
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,600
Please settle over, fuck.

537
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,360
And I get that mindset of if I stay here any longer,

538
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,000
I will drop out, or I won't graduate.

539
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,120
Or I'll run away.

540
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:53,600
Exactly.

541
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Yeah.

542
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,000
This motivation may also come from a different source

543
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,600
as Rachel had met a man by the name of Ann Allen,

544
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,480
who was 21, Rachel being only 17 at the time.

545
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,960
And with this new school schedule,

546
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,120
Rachel was able to spend way more time with Ian.

547
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:10,640
Ian.

548
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,440
The two were madly in love,

549
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,080
quickly expressing their wants to marry each other

550
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,280
and move in together.

551
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
The couple dated secretly for about four months

552
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,840
before being found out by Rachel's parents.

553
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,760
Yeah, because that's illegal.

554
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,160
That's why they had to date secretly.

555
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,520
She was in high school.

556
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,000
Shut up.

557
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,240
Don't say anything about it, or I'm going to get arrested.

558
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,760
Just like her mom's been doing to her.

559
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,520
Yep, don't say anything, or I'll get arrested.

560
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Yep.

561
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,120
God.

562
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,440
Barbara and Bruce both agreed that they did not

563
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,480
care for their 17-year-old daughter to be dating a 21-year-old man.

564
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,760
In fact, Barbara had threatened many times

565
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,320
to file a statutory rape charge against Ian

566
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,920
once she found out they were having sex.

567
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,240
I would probably do the same thing.

568
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,200
Like, he's a man.

569
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,000
He's a man.

570
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,560
He's a man.

571
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,360
She's a child.

572
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:56,480
She's a child.

573
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,040
She's a child.

574
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:57,600
She's a child.

575
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,880
She's a child.

576
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,960
Bruce was against the idea of filing the charges

577
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,200
because he understood that if you try to push them apart,

578
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,200
they're only going to want to be together more.

579
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,640
I also agree with that.

580
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Right?

581
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,400
It's like reverse psychology.

582
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,200
You got to just keep them at arm's length,

583
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,960
but don't let them elope.

584
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,960
Yeah, exactly.

585
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,160
Rachel and Ian threatened to run away together

586
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,560
unless her parents signed a written letter

587
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,000
saying that they would not pursue charges against Ian,

588
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,480
and that Rachel was free to date him.

589
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520
Otherwise, she would never be seen from or heard from again.

590
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,560
So that's such a hard position to be in.

591
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:36,880
Yeah.

592
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Like, that really is.

593
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,280
Her parents counter offered with Rachel was to be home

594
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,160
every night by 1 a.m. no sleepovers.

595
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,240
That was essentially their only condition.

596
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:48,960
Okay.

597
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,440
I think that's fine until she turns 18.

598
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,160
I think that's fine because the latter is,

599
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,280
or sorry, the alternative is she runs away.

600
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,240
Yeah, she runs away or she stays the night

601
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,600
and I think what they were were,

602
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,840
okay, well, you're 17, you're almost 18.

603
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,280
1 a.m. seems fair.

604
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,000
Reasonable.

605
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,440
You're not staying the night over.

606
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,880
You're not getting pregnant.

607
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,000
And then there's no covering up the statutory issue, right?

608
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,520
Exactly.

609
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,800
But then they're still clearly having sex,

610
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,000
even if they were at home at 1.

611
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,640
And so 1.

612
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,680
But then the parents could be like,

613
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:23,760
okay.

614
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Like, you can't have sex before 1 a.m.

615
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,480
Yeah, that's not a thing.

616
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:27,440
Yeah.

617
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,000
It's got to wait.

618
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:28,480
That's 6 or 4 1.

619
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,640
Yeah, I got to start that timer.

620
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,320
So the couple agreed to these conditions.

621
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,560
Of course, Bruce signed this.

622
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,840
He loved his daughter very much

623
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,360
and he couldn't stand the idea of not being

624
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,560
with his daughter again,

625
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,520
now that he had her back.

626
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:39,840
Yeah.

627
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,400
Barbara also signed the document,

628
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,640
but her motives may not have been as pure.

629
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,360
She desperately wanted to hang on to Rachel

630
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,200
as a source of dependency for her.

631
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,360
And Barbara was not done controlling the situation by far.

632
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,640
Oh, God.

633
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,240
Alex, Rachel's half-brother,

634
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,480
remembers, quote, before my mother's death,

635
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,560
there was a lot of drugs and alcohol around.

636
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,440
She liked Sky Vodka and took uppers and downers,

637
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,000
and she would party with Ian and Rachel, end quote.

638
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,280
So now she's like, oh, let me spend as much time

639
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,880
as I can with Rachel and Ian so that I can keep an eye on them

640
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,000
all the time, essentially, right?

641
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,280
Sky Vodka is nasty.

642
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,120
That's my PSA.

643
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,000
The more you know.

644
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,600
In early September in a rage,

645
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,360
Barbara went up to Ian's work

646
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,120
and managed to get him fired

647
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,920
after berating him and the staff at his job.

648
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,360
For what?

649
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,880
Just, I guess, she's just like,

650
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,760
if you don't fire him,

651
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,200
I'm going to be up here every fucking day.

652
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,720
Sounds like something she would do.

653
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,640
She's like, I tried to look for it.

654
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:39,520
Out of control.

655
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:39,760
Yeah.

656
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,800
Because now it's like, oh, we're drinking and drugging together.

657
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:43,520
Like, we're cool.

658
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,160
We're cool.

659
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,920
But now, yeah, but now we're too cool.

660
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,520
So let me go fuck up this man's life.

661
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,840
Or she's like, put your job so that we can drink

662
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,800
and drug together more.

663
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,360
Or something.

664
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,160
I don't know.

665
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,600
Maybe she had a thing for him.

666
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Bruce said about this quote,

667
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,440
Ian had never met anybody like this before.

668
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,960
It was, I'll get in your face.

669
00:30:58,960 --> 00:30:59,760
I'm not afraid.

670
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,960
I'll mess up your life.

671
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:01,920
I'm going to threaten you.

672
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:02,960
I'll go to your parents.

673
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,400
I'll go to your little brother's school.

674
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,680
I'll go to your job.

675
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,680
I mean, this is just the way that Barbara was.

676
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,600
Run the fucking other way.

677
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Right?

678
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:11,120
I'm sorry.

679
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,800
Like, you might love the daughter, but like-

680
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,920
I, uh-uh.

681
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:14,960
Abs is fucking literally not-

682
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,200
This guy has no self-preservation where he's like,

683
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,880
I can't do this.

684
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,080
Your parents are crazy.

685
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Yeah.

686
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,120
Or at least your mom.

687
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,960
I'd like to think, like, the first time

688
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,600
I got an inkling of someone reacting that way

689
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,640
to something that I said,

690
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,720
I would just not fucking talk to them again

691
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:29,840
to get to that point.

692
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,240
Right.

693
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,680
But it's much harder when you're in it.

694
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,880
You can't really see it clearly from an outside perspective.

695
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,840
I mean, they've also been dating less than a year.

696
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:38,400
So-

697
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,480
But he probably thinks now, like, okay, like-

698
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:40,720
Oh, this poor girl.

699
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,720
For her and I have been doing drugs and stuff together,

700
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,160
what if I leave and she turns me into the police

701
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,440
for having drugs or whatever?

702
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,120
Or she says I raped her or something, you know?

703
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,480
Or she says, you know,

704
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,120
this man was giving my underage daughter drugs.

705
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:53,920
Exactly, yeah.

706
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,680
Like, there's all these types of things.

707
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,040
And I think Barbara knows that.

708
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680
And that's why she's like, I can just do, you know, whatever.

709
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,280
About a week later, Rachel had gone to visit Ian

710
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,440
so the week after she went up to Ian's work,

711
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:06,800
Barbated.

712
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Rachel had gone to visit Ian at his house

713
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,240
while the two watched movies and they fell asleep.

714
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,920
Barbara was waiting for Rachel to return home that night.

715
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,920
And when she didn't, by 1 a.m.,

716
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,360
she flew out the door and made her way to Ian's.

717
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,240
Rachel wrote in her diary about this situation, quote,

718
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,520
We woke up at 1.20 at his house and we rushed out the door.

719
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,920
And when we opened the door, my mom was standing there.

720
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,200
I was humiliated.

721
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,640
I wanted to die right there.

722
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,360
Before this happened, like a week or so ago,

723
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,400
my mom showed up at his job and got him fired.

724
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,040
I wish she would just let me be happy, end quote.

725
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,640
On September 10th, three days before the murder

726
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,960
and a few days after Rachel had accidentally

727
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,000
skipped curfew, Rachel wrote that her mother's behavior

728
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,000
was escalating, quote,

729
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,520
She is fucking crazy.

730
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,560
She threatens me every day, all over Ian.

731
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,280
Either she's threatening to do something to him or me

732
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,960
in its constant, end quote.

733
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,440
Rachel says, quote,

734
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,200
I have HPV, stage one.

735
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,440
She's saying that she's going to Ian's mom

736
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,720
and telling her all about it.

737
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:09,760
What bullshit.

738
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,200
She has no right.

739
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,000
This should be my decision to tell someone, not hers.

740
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,880
She's such a bitch.

741
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,800
One day she will threaten the wrong person

742
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,320
and they'll beat the living shit out of her.

743
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,080
Life and death.

744
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,440
Life, death.

745
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,560
What does it mean?

746
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,200
Some people get great lives and some people,

747
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,480
well, do you know what the kids with bad homes do?

748
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,440
They cut, they do drugs, they commit murder,

749
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,480
burn themselves, cause harm to others.

750
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,520
They say to turn to God, give me a break.

751
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240
God does not control life and he doesn't control death.

752
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,520
So try to survive in this horrible world, life and death.

753
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,960
End quote.

754
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,160
Geez.

755
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,160
Like she's going through it.

756
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,680
She's fucking troubled.

757
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,960
And it's all her mom's fault.

758
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,320
I mean, that's so heartbreaking.

759
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,120
It is.

760
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,400
It's really heartbreaking.

761
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,160
And she's so cognitive about her situation.

762
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,120
Like she's so aware.

763
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Yeah.

764
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,280
She's like, reminds me of Gypsy.

765
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:05,840
This is bad.

766
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:06,320
Yeah.

767
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,520
This is bad and this is gonna end worse.

768
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Yeah.

769
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,120
You know, like she knows.

770
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,600
Only one direction this is going.

771
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,760
It's only so much I can fucking handle.

772
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:16,480
God, that's so awful.

773
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,320
I have like the full body hues right now.

774
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:19,920
It's awful.

775
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,520
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787
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788
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790
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,920
So again, just within a week, back at the crime lab,

791
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,440
the serial number on the cardboard box that once held a 27-inch

792
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,720
screen TV was traced back to a local electronics store.

793
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,320
There, investigators found that a TV was sold to Barbara's ex-husband, Bruce Mollinix.

794
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Investigators arrive at Bruce's condo only to discover that both Bruce and his 17-year-old

795
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,760
daughter Rachel are missing.

796
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,920
Investigators with a warrant in hand enter the residence,

797
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,680
which showed no signs of force entry.

798
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,280
Here, investigators would find a mountain of evidence.

799
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,240
Detectives quickly noticed that one of the bedrooms, presumed to be Barbara's,

800
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,920
had a mattress and a box spring that were missing, but the bed frame remained.

801
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:59,600
And detectives use lycoprystal violet, which is similar to luminol,

802
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,520
to determine if there is a presence of blood.

803
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,120
So luminol, which a lot of us might have heard of,

804
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,880
creates a blue or green color,

805
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,600
chemoluminescence from the reaction with hemoglobin or blood when it's sprayed on the surface.

806
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,840
You've seen Dexter.

807
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,720
You know that scene where Julia Stiles is like, she's in the season or whatever,

808
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,520
and her name is Lumen, and she starts spraying it.

809
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,320
She goes, what's that? He's like, luminol. And he goes, no relation.

810
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,120
No relation. Lumen, luminol.

811
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:32,480
So the difference between luminol and lukocrystal violet is that you don't need to work in the

812
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,320
dark with LCV. It turns purple or dark blue, and you can see it clearly in the light, which is kind of cool.

813
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,520
So when LCV was applied, the room lit up all different sorts of colors.

814
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,200
The presence of blood was in the sink, on the walls, on light switches, the floor.

815
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,200
The pattern of blood was in a sweeping motion, as if someone had attempted to wipe it from all surfaces.

816
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,640
Yet a very distinct palm print was left behind on one of the walls,

817
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,200
and this section of the wall was removed in order to process it for palm print identification.

818
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,800
That's going to be you one day.

819
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,920
I know, right? Hopefully. Well, I wouldn't do fingerprints.

820
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,840
I wouldn't do fingerprints. I do DNA.

821
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,840
Or I would do DNA.

822
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,040
I do DNA.

823
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,360
Well, that's going to be one of us one day.

824
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,360
We'll see.

825
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:25,360
A blood-soaked sponge was found on the nightstand, and a box of latex gloves were found in the kitchen as well.

826
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,360
Perhaps the most haunting evidence of all was found in the silverware drawer.

827
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:37,360
The set of silverware that the drawer contained matched the same design as the butter knife found in the skull of Barbara.

828
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:45,360
I bet that was so unnerving to open the drawer and see that, and you're like, oh, fuck.

829
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,360
And I guarantee you, they're immediately like, it was the ex-husband.

830
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,360
Right.

831
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,360
While the crime scene was what?

832
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,360
It just did like the tiniest eyebrow right here.

833
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Right.

834
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,360
You just left eyebrow, literally. I can't, I can't raise one eyebrow, but it literally went like this.

835
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,360
It's like so small.

836
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:11,360
While the crime scene was being processed, Bruce Milenex showed up to the crime scene after claiming he was at a town for work since Tuesday.

837
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,360
Hmm.

838
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:18,360
He was absolutely shocked that police were now in his condo collecting evidence of a murder that took place there.

839
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,360
Not only that, but the murder of his ex-wife.

840
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,360
This was the first time that Bruce was hearing that his ex-wife was dead.

841
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:33,360
I was gonna say, because I don't know what her past is about, like past is like, but I feel like somebody that's a drug user and alcoholic,

842
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,360
it's not very odd for them to go missing for a few days.

843
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:37,360
Right.

844
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,360
They're maybe on a bender or something.

845
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:39,360
Yeah.

846
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,360
I don't know how, I don't know what her routine was.

847
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,360
Or if that was like something common that she would do.

848
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,360
Yeah.

849
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,360
But also they're not married and he probably isn't upset that she's gone.

850
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,360
He's like, oh shit, she's gone.

851
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,360
All right, cool.

852
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,360
No, they were literally like, we found your ex-wife's body in the ravine over there and now we're processing your apartment.

853
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Yeah, and he was like, oh shit.

854
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,360
And you had a crime suspect.

855
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,360
She was gone.

856
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,360
He was like, what?

857
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,360
Yeah.

858
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,360
Like, she's dead?

859
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,360
Yeah.

860
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:03,360
You know?

861
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,360
That's wild.

862
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,360
This is like the first time that he's hearing it.

863
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,360
Yeah.

864
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,360
Ugh, ugh, ugh.

865
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,360
I hate that.

866
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:09,360
I just got the heaps in the jeeps.

867
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,360
Stop.

868
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,360
So yes, he was being looked at as a prime suspect, excuse me.

869
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,360
A quick comparison between the palm print found at the crime scene and Bruce Milonix's palm

870
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,360
print determine that he was not the owner of that print.

871
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:28,360
And police were also able to determine that Bruce was in fact out of town since Tuesday afternoon on work.

872
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,360
Well, that's probably why it happened.

873
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,360
Because she was left once again alone with her mother.

874
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,360
We all know that she did it.

875
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,360
Her name's the title of the episode, all right?

876
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,360
I love when you say that.

877
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,360
We all know it's her.

878
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:45,360
We should have like a merch shirt that just has like title, like where it's got like heading,

879
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,360
title, whatever.

880
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:47,360
Yeah, it's the title of the episode.

881
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,360
And of course it's a perpetrator or something, you know?

882
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,360
Yeah.

883
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,360
The question remains at this point, where was Rachel?

884
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,360
Had she also been murdered?

885
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,360
Which is what detectives fear at this point.

886
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,360
Yeah, of course.

887
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,360
We know the background.

888
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,360
They didn't.

889
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,360
Investigators attempted to call Rachel many times with no answer.

890
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:10,360
Asking Rachel's friends, it was determined that the last time she was seen was with her boyfriend Ian Allen at a movie theater.

891
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,360
Ironically, the couple watched that night, The Lady in the Water.

892
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,360
Oh my god.

893
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,360
Isn't it her phone ringing off the chain and she was like, oh fuck.

894
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:19,360
Oh shit.

895
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,360
Like something's going down.

896
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,360
Oh, I'm sure they thought they got away with it.

897
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,360
Oh, sure.

898
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,360
They.

899
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,360
Oh.

900
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,360
Shit.

901
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:33,360
In an effort to locate the couple, police went to Ian's parents' home, where they claimed that they hadn't seen Ian in almost two days.

902
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:40,360
Ian's parents consented to a search of the house, but neither of the two were there.

903
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,360
Ian's parents said that they were worried since the family's gun was missing from the home, a.38 caliber.

904
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,360
They weren't worried?

905
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,360
They were.

906
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,360
They were worried because they were like, well, he hasn't been home and this gun is missing since he hasn't been home.

907
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,360
You didn't think to report that?

908
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:55,360
No.

909
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,360
They're like, oh, he's 21.

910
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,360
He's fine.

911
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,360
He's fine.

912
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,360
It's just soul something for me.

913
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:00,360
Sure.

914
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,360
The Allens agreed to have the family computer taken as evidence to be processed as well.

915
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,360
These people are badass.

916
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,360
They're like, yeah, search my home.

917
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:08,360
Find him.

918
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,360
Take everything.

919
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:10,360
Take everything, please.

920
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,360
Yeah.

921
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:12,360
What?

922
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:13,360
Well, they were probably worried about Ian too.

923
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,360
That's true.

924
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:22,360
Okay, this person's, his girlfriend's mother has been murdered and we can't find our son and you can't find Rachel.

925
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,360
Maybe it was the ex-husband and he killed all three of them.

926
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:27,360
Yeah, the kids are missing.

927
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:40,360
You know, a neighbor of Bruce Mileneck said that about two or, that about at two or three in the morning, a lot of yelling, screaming and thudding came from inside his condo, Bruce's condo, for suddenly stopping.

928
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,360
Okay, I'm not laughing like at what's going on, obviously.

929
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,360
At least snickered.

930
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,360
I did snicker, but it wasn't about what was happening.

931
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,360
It's about like, you don't call.

932
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,360
Like, you don't think to call.

933
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,360
I can't stand that stuff.

934
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:51,360
Like it was like the Lulu Lemon murder.

935
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,360
Like, yeah, there's someone very clearly being at least harmed next door.

936
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:07,360
I mean, it's not like rando gunshots where you're like, you call the cops and you're like, I don't know where to, like when you're, when it's literally like your next door neighbor or something and you hear like screaming and thudding.

937
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,360
Yeah, like excuse me, you're not calling.

938
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,360
Like help, I'm being stabbed and like, you know, nothing.

939
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,360
Seriously.

940
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:21,360
And like even like the, the Lulu Lemon murder was like so recent too, like, you don't want to like maybe put that on like the neighborhood app or something.

941
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,360
Like, hey, I don't have anyone else heard.

942
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,360
Yeah, like I get shit on my ring app all the time.

943
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,360
That's like, did anyone else hear gunshots?

944
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:36,360
I don't know if anybody else does this, but I keep notes on my phone where I'm like a suspicious car or something, you know, but like in case something happens.

945
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,360
I don't call and like, hey, there's a weird person because I don't know.

946
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,360
And I'm not trying to be nosy.

947
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:48,360
I'm just saying like if I felt weird, you know, or I'll be like, oh, I heard this specific thing at, I don't know.

948
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,360
Is that weird?

949
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,360
That's a little paranoid.

950
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,360
You're like just sitting there by the window all day.

951
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,360
No, not like 733.

952
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:56,360
The mailman looked weird.

953
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,360
No, like you ever like, you ever like walk down the street and you get like a creepy vibe from like someone following you or something.

954
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,360
You're like, you know, guy with a hat on.

955
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,360
I feel that way in any situation.

956
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,360
I'll text you or I'll text like Dana or something.

957
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,360
Just text my location.

958
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,360
Or yeah, and I'll say, I'll just be like, hey, remember you have a location or whatever.

959
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Or be like, hey, just let you know, like, I used to do that all the time.

960
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,360
Like when I was I delivered for DoorDash for a while for anyone that doesn't know.

961
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,360
If I was delivering DoorDash and it maybe got dark outside or there was like a little bit of a sketchy area.

962
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,360
Like I would text you and be like, hey, just let you know.

963
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,360
I'm walking up to the door.

964
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,360
This person wants me to knock on the door.

965
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,360
Like I don't feel comfortable.

966
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,360
I'm at this address and then I'm like, I'll text you as soon as I leave.

967
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,360
I dropped the food or whatever.

968
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,360
I text you.

969
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,360
So I do something similar in a sense that I don't do it in my notes.

970
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,360
I feel like that's part of the woman condition though.

971
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,360
It's fucked up that we have to even fucking think about that.

972
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,360
Anyways, continue.

973
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,360
Also within that hour, another neighbor could hear what sounded like someone.

974
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,360
This is another one, right?

975
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:58,360
This is another one.

976
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:08,360
A neighbor could hear what sounded like something being dragged and eventually saw someone placing something into the back of Volvo.

977
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,360
Like I get it.

978
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,360
Like you don't want to get involved.

979
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,360
You don't want to get involved, right?

980
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,360
But you can call anonymously and say I'd like to remain anonymous.

981
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:18,360
They're never going to fucking know who it was.

982
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,360
Well, they still have your phone number though.

983
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,360
It's not really anonymous.

984
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,360
The perpetrator, I mean, it's not like they're going to be like, oh yeah, this guy.

985
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,360
Do you have this phone number saved in your phone?

986
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,360
They called.

987
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,360
No, I know, but you can't still see it.

988
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:39,360
Okay, so if they had, right, called 911 and they said I want to remain anonymous and they found out that there was a body in that car, they're still going to call that person up and be like, okay, you need to tell us what you saw.

989
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,360
Yeah, no, absolutely.

990
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,360
And you can, I think you can remain anonymous in court documents.

991
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:49,360
No, I'm talking about like Rachel, like if you remain anonymous and it gets out and they're like, oh, your neighbor called or whatever.

992
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,360
They're not going to be like, oh, your neighbor Jim called.

993
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,360
You know what I mean?

994
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:53,360
Yeah, they're not going to say it.

995
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:54,360
Yeah, they're not going to do all that.

996
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,360
Yeah.

997
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:56,360
Not until it goes to court.

998
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,360
Not until it goes to court.

999
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,360
And they're like, oh, it was my neighbor that saw me do it.

1000
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:01,360
Yeah.

1001
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:02,360
Well, maybe she should be fucking take somebody.

1002
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:03,360
Hey, I remember, I know that chick.

1003
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,360
She's my neighbor.

1004
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:13,360
Further digging, detectives were able to determine that Ian had requested September 12 and 13 off from work.

1005
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,360
This is before he got fired.

1006
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,360
No.

1007
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,360
He already knew before he got fired, which would have been two weeks before this.

1008
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,360
He, you requested an arrogant piece of shit.

1009
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,360
You're requesting days off work to murder someone.

1010
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,360
I'm just going to take the day off.

1011
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,360
Can I get PTO for these two days?

1012
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,360
I'm going to be working.

1013
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:33,360
You want me PTO?

1014
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,360
Yeah.

1015
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:35,360
Like what?

1016
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,360
They're mental holidays.

1017
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Okay, that's a bad joke.

1018
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,360
That's such a bad joke.

1019
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:51,360
On September 11th, so this would be the day before the murder, Ian asked a friend, called him up, and asked if he was available to pick him and Rachel up from a party that he would be attending the next night.

1020
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,360
His friend was hesitant.

1021
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:59,360
It did say the friend's name, but I'm just going to leave you to the honest because, you know, again, don't involve him, right?

1022
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,360
He insisted that he could pay his friend for a ride.

1023
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,360
He was like, uh, I don't really know if I want to drive you out there.

1024
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,360
Um, and he, Ian's like, well, I can pay you.

1025
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,360
I'll pay you gas money, whatever, just to pick me and Rachel up from this party because we're going to be really wasted, bro.

1026
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,360
Like, we're going to be so wasted.

1027
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:16,360
24 hours in advance.

1028
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:17,360
Yeah.

1029
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,360
That I'm going to be so fucked up.

1030
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,360
This is before Uber, clearly.

1031
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,360
This is also before you made the choice to get fucked up.

1032
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,360
Like you have a choice here in this moment.

1033
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,360
Like you don't have to get fucked up.

1034
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:35,360
And asking where the party was located, Ian told his friend that it was in Newport Beach, you know, where Barbara's body was found.

1035
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,360
Oh my God.

1036
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,360
The friend would agree.

1037
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:44,360
And the following evening, he picked up Ian and Rachel at an intersection in Corona Del Mar.

1038
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,360
So remember, that's where Barbara's car was found.

1039
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,360
Six minutes away from her body.

1040
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,360
He's like, where's this party, bro, at the corner of Fifth and Newport?

1041
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,360
Yeah, exactly.

1042
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:54,360
Like, where?

1043
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:55,360
Some party.

1044
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:56,360
Some party.

1045
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,360
Let's not forget, this is also like a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

1046
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,360
So it's like what?

1047
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,360
Yeah, this raging party.

1048
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,360
That's really gross that he said a party.

1049
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,360
Like he's going to a party.

1050
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,360
Right?

1051
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:07,360
That's gross.

1052
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:08,360
It could have been like, oh, like our car broke down.

1053
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,360
We need to ride.

1054
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:10,360
Yeah.

1055
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,360
24 hours.

1056
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:12,360
It's like, our car broke down tomorrow night.

1057
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,360
Just to let you know.

1058
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:15,360
Just to let you know.

1059
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,360
I'm going to need some help.

1060
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:23,360
Ian's friend found it really interesting that the entire reason Ian and Rachel needed a ride was because it said that they were going to be really drunk.

1061
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,360
The friend immediately noticed that when Ian and Rachel got into the car, they were sober.

1062
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:28,360
Stone cold sober.

1063
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,360
Stone cold sober.

1064
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,360
Which makes it even fucking worse that they literally did this stone cold sober.

1065
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,360
Oh yeah.

1066
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,360
Yeah.

1067
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,360
Not under the effects of drug as alcohol.

1068
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,360
That's so fucking, yeah, that's so fucked up.

1069
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:47,360
Ian made it a point to tell his friend multiple times while driving not to speed because, quote, there's a lot of police activity in the area and he didn't want to get pulled over.

1070
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,360
End quote.

1071
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,360
Not end quote, but you know, the last part was very crazy.

1072
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,360
He said he didn't want to get pulled over, end quote.

1073
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,360
That's talking in the third person.

1074
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,360
Yeah.

1075
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,360
That's fucking wild because you know, obviously we all know what he's thinking like I can't be seen in this area.

1076
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,360
In this area.

1077
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,360
Yeah.

1078
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,360
Exactly.

1079
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:11,360
A neighbor recollected that about 7am he saw a young man matching Ian's description loading black trash bags into the back of his car.

1080
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,360
Again, another neighbor, not another phone call.

1081
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,360
Bystander effect.

1082
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:29,360
When Ian showed up at his former job looking to dump these bags the following morning, he at about 9 o'clock, I think it was, he was asked by an employee what he was up to saying, Ian, quote, looked sweaty like he had been doing work, end quote.

1083
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,360
Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

1084
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,360
He took the bags to his job.

1085
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,360
To his job.

1086
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,360
To dump them in a dumpster, yeah.

1087
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,360
He's like, yeah, I've been on PTO the last two days.

1088
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,360
I've been working.

1089
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:38,360
Yeah.

1090
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:44,360
Well, he did tell another employee he was either going to help Rachel move or his Rachel's mom's mom move.

1091
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:50,360
So again, he had kind of already set it up like I need these two days off because I'm helping somebody move.

1092
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,360
Now I'm dumping black trash bags into a dumpster because we're getting rid of some stuff for the move.

1093
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:56,360
Right?

1094
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,360
But that's just dumb because then he's literally like saying that he was with Rachel and her mom those two days.

1095
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:02,360
Yeah, exactly.

1096
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,360
So it's like, she ends up dead.

1097
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,360
So what were you guys doing?

1098
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:06,360
Yeah.

1099
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,360
Because you told an employee you were going to be with her.

1100
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,360
Certainly not moving.

1101
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:10,360
He's like, oh, plans changed.

1102
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,360
There was a party.

1103
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:12,360
I got wasted.

1104
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Yeah, it would have made more sense to be like, oh, I need the two days off because I plan on getting wasted and being hung over the next day.

1105
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,360
Or going out of town or something.

1106
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,360
Yeah.

1107
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:20,360
I'm out of town.

1108
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:21,360
You know?

1109
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,360
Well, that's why big criminals are fucking stupid.

1110
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,360
Yeah.

1111
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,360
The bags were located in the dumpster and Barbara's purse and other personal belongings were found inside.

1112
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,360
Okay.

1113
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:36,360
Nearby, police located the springs of a burnt mattress and box spring.

1114
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:43,360
So he had gone out to this like kind of wooded area by his job, his former job and lit the mattress and box spring on fire.

1115
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,360
Oh yeah, he's not even working there anymore.

1116
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,360
No.

1117
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,360
He went to dump his shit there.

1118
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:48,360
That's ridiculous.

1119
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,360
Unfortunately, all that remained was the metal.

1120
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,360
So they couldn't find any blood evidence or anything like that on the mattress.

1121
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:02,360
Well, that's obviously not good for the investigation, but there's a lot of other things so far that have lined up for them to kind of know like,

1122
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,360
for sure.

1123
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,360
At least a general idea of what happened.

1124
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,360
Yeah.

1125
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,360
They can, I mean, I don't know how they would have linked that.

1126
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:19,360
I don't know if it's circumstantial evidence or if it was invisible in court because you would have to prove that that would have been Barbara's mattress.

1127
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:20,360
Yeah.

1128
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,360
But then Ian was the one that dumped it there or whatever.

1129
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:24,360
You have to prove all of that.

1130
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:34,360
Well, I don't think anybody saw him do it, but they saw him dump the trash bags full of her belongings, but not, you know, there wasn't any blood evidence in any of the bags, essentially.

1131
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:41,360
The computer analysis brought back information that someone on the Allen Family Computer had looked up directions to Tampa, Florida.

1132
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,360
Oh my God.

1133
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:50,360
Tracking Barbara and Ian's debit cards helped determine that the couple were in fact on their way to Tampa, Florida.

1134
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,360
Barbara and Ian's?

1135
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,360
Yes.

1136
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,360
So he took Barbara's card and used it for gas.

1137
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,360
Got it.

1138
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:56,360
Got it.

1139
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,360
And then when he had dumped that and then he had to use his own for gas like an idiot.

1140
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,360
So they're just like following, it's like Emperor's New Groove all over again.

1141
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:04,360
Yeah.

1142
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,360
It's like a breadcrumb trail.

1143
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,360
Yeah.

1144
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:17,360
The last known use of Ian's card was in Sulphur, Louisiana at a gas station where Ian had actually ditched his debit card and his cell phone before leaving the parking lot with all of his information on them.

1145
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:18,360
Yeah.

1146
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:19,360
Mm-hmm.

1147
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,360
God.

1148
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:26,360
Local police were contacted with a bolo, which is beyond the lookout, and was put out for Ian's truck, his vehicle.

1149
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:33,360
The couple were located on September 15th just east of Sulphur, Louisiana, and were promptly brought in for questioning.

1150
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,360
They just like ran out of money and gas and just sat there.

1151
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,360
They just like walked.

1152
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:38,360
Pretty much.

1153
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,360
They couldn't afford to go anywhere else.

1154
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:45,360
The two were separated, and as soon as detectives entered the room to interrogate Rachel, Rachel exclaimed, quote,

1155
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,360
Do you know that I was kidnapped?

1156
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:48,360
Do you know that?

1157
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:49,360
End quote.

1158
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,360
Okay, I'm done.

1159
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,360
You're done.

1160
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,360
You're done.

1161
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:53,360
What the fuck?

1162
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,360
I was probably her plan the whole fucking time.

1163
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:57,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1164
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,360
Like, if we get caught, I'm just going to say that he could have me.

1165
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,360
It gets better.

1166
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:07,360
Rachel began to tell her side of events, saying that on the night of September 12th, she fell asleep around 10 or 11 p.m.

1167
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,360
She woke up to the sound of her mother screaming her name,

1168
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,360
and when Rachel rushed into her mother's bedroom, she was met by her horrific scene.

1169
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:19,360
Her boyfriend Ian had snuck into the house in the middle of the night and was stabbing her mother in a fit of rage.

1170
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,360
This was caused by Barbara threatening to never allow the couple to see each other again.

1171
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,360
Wrong.

1172
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:32,360
In a brave attempt to save her mother's life, she threw herself at Ian, but Ian quickly shoved her out of the way

1173
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,360
and began to proceed to stab Barbara ultimately to death.

1174
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:44,360
After killing Barbara, Ian held Rachel at gunpoint and threatened her life if she were not to cooperate with everything he asked her to do.

1175
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:51,360
Rachel claimed that she didn't remember anything after that until she woke up down with duct tape in a motel not far from the home.

1176
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,360
That's her story.

1177
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:54,360
And she's sticking to it.

1178
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,360
And she's sticking to it. All right.

1179
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:57,360
Sounds like a good plan.

1180
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,360
Right?

1181
00:52:58,360 --> 00:52:59,360
Not really.

1182
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:00,360
It's foolproof.

1183
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,360
It's definitely foolproof.

1184
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,360
Everything they've done is foolproof. That's why it's gotten them in this interrogation room.

1185
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:13,360
When this was disproven and the dilemma brought up of how Ian was able to keep her subdued while also loading Barbara's body into the car,

1186
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:21,360
dismantling the bed, cleaning up the crime scene, which also Rachel's blood was found on the soaked sponge, by the way.

1187
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,360
Dumping the car.

1188
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,360
Furthermore, three fingerprints of Rachel's were found on the duct tape used to wrap the body in the cardboard box.

1189
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,360
Weird.

1190
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,360
The palm print?

1191
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,360
Ian's.

1192
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,360
It's the only thing.

1193
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:34,360
Ian's, yeah.

1194
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:39,360
Rachel insisted that he made her do all of these things while she was at gunpoint.

1195
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,360
She insisted that she was simply too scared to attempt to flee.

1196
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,360
So she's like, oh, I had to do all these things.

1197
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,360
I did most of everything because Ian had me do everything because he was holding me at gunpoint, essentially.

1198
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,360
So, okay, that also doesn't make sense.

1199
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,360
Yeah.

1200
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,360
Like, it's probably very unlikely that she can lift her mother's body on her own.

1201
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,360
Thank you.

1202
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:00,360
And, you know.

1203
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,360
Yeah.

1204
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,360
And do all of that within the span of a few hours?

1205
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:04,360
Exactly.

1206
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:10,360
Dismantling the bed, taking it to, why would she take the mattress to Ian's work and then light it on fire?

1207
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,360
Yeah.

1208
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:12,360
What, and I guess-

1209
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:13,360
He's like, at one point-

1210
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,360
You take light it on fire at my work.

1211
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,360
At my work.

1212
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,360
You better light it on fire at my work.

1213
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,360
You better dump these trash bags in the bin and dump them straight at my work.

1214
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,360
Yeah.

1215
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,360
Dressed up like me.

1216
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,360
Dressed up like me.

1217
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:33,360
So a gun was actually located in Ian's truck, blood completely covering the handle, most of which-

1218
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,360
Most of which was Rachel's blood.

1219
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,360
Well, how did she cut herself?

1220
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,360
Cleaning up?

1221
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:40,360
How-

1222
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,360
How did she cut herself?

1223
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,360
How did she cut herself?

1224
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,360
I have a really bad-

1225
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:53,360
I think I said I just tried my neck in the beginning of this episode and it hurts so bad so I was leaning back to try to stretch it and then I had a question.

1226
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,360
So how did she cut herself while she was-

1227
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,360
So that's the thing.

1228
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,360
Duh, on the knife that she used to stab.

1229
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,360
Okay, obviously that was a stupid question.

1230
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:02,360
Right?

1231
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:03,360
Okay, listeners, yeah.

1232
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:22,360
So if- I mean, I'm sure if you guys are all true crime fanatics, I'm sure you've come across at least one or two cases, a stabbing case where someone has used a knife, and in the process of stabbing someone, the knife gets so slippery because of all of the blood that the perpetrator's hands usually slip down the bladed part of the knife.

1233
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,360
So yes, that would be a great reason, right?

1234
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,360
So it's like Rachel's like, I didn't do anything, I just found Ian-

1235
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,360
Waving her hand in the air and it has a slight-

1236
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,360
Waving her hand in the air and it has a slight on it, that was insane.

1237
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:35,360
I didn't do it.

1238
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,360
Yeah, I don't know, I was doing like a nae nae or something.

1239
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,360
No, I mean, that's really fucked up.

1240
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:40,360
I'm not trying to make light of the situation.

1241
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:41,360
No, yeah.

1242
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:50,360
So again, it's like, oh wait, this sponge has your blood on it because you used your hands that had cuts on them to wipe away the blood that was your mother's blood.

1243
00:55:50,360 --> 00:56:01,360
But again, her explanation for just her cleaning up the blood and whatever, why her DNA was on it was because she was just simply using the sponge.

1244
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:07,360
But how hard are you scrubbing where you're bleeding?

1245
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,360
Yes, so again, most of Rachel's blood was on the handle of the gun.

1246
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,360
Why not shoot your attacker if you're-

1247
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:16,360
I mean, clearly it was in your possession.

1248
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:17,360
You're holding it.

1249
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,360
That is fucking scientific evidence that says that you're holding it.

1250
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,360
That you're holding it.

1251
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:23,360
You can't explain that one away.

1252
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:24,360
And there's only one gun.

1253
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:25,360
One gun.

1254
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:26,360
You know, it's not a standoff here.

1255
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,360
You weren't holding it for like a half second because there's probably enough blood on there to know.

1256
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:31,360
Yes.

1257
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:42,360
So the couple was transported back to California because I remember they're in LA, Louisiana, where Milenex maintained that she was incredibly fearful of Alan.

1258
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:48,360
And she even told the booking officer on several occasions, you're not going to let him hurt me, right?

1259
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,360
You're not going to let him hurt me.

1260
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,360
Okay.

1261
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,360
Yeah.

1262
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,360
Also, just a little peppering it in there for the listeners.

1263
00:56:54,360 --> 00:57:03,360
I'm not sure if you all recognize this, but I think it's so cool that when Coelle does a case, she calls the person by their first name until they've been arrested and then she switches and calls them by their last name.

1264
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:04,360
I don't know if I've mentioned that before.

1265
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,360
I don't think you have, but I noticed that you do it.

1266
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:07,360
Like, I'm going to tell you to do a case.

1267
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:08,360
I don't do that.

1268
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:09,360
Yeah, well, that was a job first name.

1269
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:10,360
There was John Boyd to me.

1270
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:11,360
There was John Boyd.

1271
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,360
There was John Boyd to me or something.

1272
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:13,360
John Boyd.

1273
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,360
The name that they don't want to be called is what I call it.

1274
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:18,360
Yeah.

1275
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:19,360
Sorry.

1276
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,360
Continue to be a bathroom murder burp, Durst.

1277
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,360
Bathroom murder burp, Durst?

1278
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,360
Who was that that said that?

1279
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:29,360
Stimax.

1280
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:30,360
Oh, yeah.

1281
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:31,360
Bathroom murder burp, Durst.

1282
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,360
I was like, oh, something about Durst.

1283
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:39,360
Oh, when we go to Fredericksburg and Mama W. shows us the Durst house of Durst Street.

1284
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,360
And so I think I sent him a picture of that and he goes like, bathroom murder burp, Durst?

1285
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:44,360
That's so funny.

1286
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:45,360
So funny.

1287
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:51,040
So insisting that the two had to be transported to jail together, officers stuck Milenex and

1288
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,360
Allen together in the same squad car.

1289
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:54,360
They did it on purpose.

1290
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,360
This is on purpose because they wanted to see what they were talking about.

1291
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:57,360
Yep.

1292
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:58,360
They probably have a microphone in the back.

1293
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,360
Once in the car, they did not realize that their conversations were being recorded.

1294
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,360
I love my oh, oh my gosh.

1295
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,600
Milenex can be heard telling Allen, quote, if you go to prison and I get out, I'll wait

1296
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,600
for you.

1297
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:09,600
I'll wait for you.

1298
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:10,600
Oh, wait.

1299
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:11,600
You did it.

1300
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:12,600
You did it.

1301
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:13,600
You won.

1302
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:14,600
You did it.

1303
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,600
Quote, did you tell them that you kidnapped me?

1304
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,600
And quote, Allen responded with quote, they didn't buy that for a second.

1305
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:23,600
And quote, like, he's dumb.

1306
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:24,600
Yeah, he's dumb.

1307
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,600
He's like, this is a dumb idea.

1308
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,600
Milenex told Allen to quote, plead insanity.

1309
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:30,600
I don't hate you.

1310
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:31,600
I'll never hate you.

1311
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,600
I love you till the day I die.

1312
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:34,600
Do you understand that?

1313
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:35,600
And quote, and.

1314
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,080
I'm sorry, you can't just plead insanity.

1315
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,320
You have to be proven insane.

1316
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:41,320
Insane.

1317
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:42,320
Yeah.

1318
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,640
You have to actually have a mental disorder.

1319
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,000
And quote, if I make bail and I get out of this somehow, I'm going to change my identity

1320
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,080
and change my, I can't even get through this.

1321
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:54,080
Sorry.

1322
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,080
Give it to me.

1323
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:57,080
Okay.

1324
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:02,560
Quote, if I make bail and I get out of this somehow, I'm going to change my identity and

1325
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,120
change my appearance and I'll come see you.

1326
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:09,560
And quote, they both proceeded to tell each other over and over, I love you.

1327
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,560
I love you.

1328
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:11,560
I love you.

1329
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:12,560
I love you.

1330
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,760
I'll change my appearance.

1331
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,040
I'll change my identity and my appearance and I'll just come visit you.

1332
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,000
If you get out of there, you're allowed to go see him.

1333
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,000
I'm pretty sure unless that's the condition that the judge has, you know, which I guess

1334
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,000
they don't know.

1335
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,400
I'll change my address.

1336
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:28,400
Up as you.

1337
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,400
I'll change it up.

1338
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,800
I'll just come see you.

1339
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,400
Just remember that one time.

1340
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:38,160
Sound records indicated that the two texted all night the night of the murder with Milenex

1341
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,480
giving Alan information regarding whether or not her mom was asleep.

1342
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:43,480
That's fucking terrifying.

1343
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,640
It reminds me of Gypsy almost, this specific part.

1344
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:52,960
In one text, Milenex says, quote, Ian, I don't care what I have to do in order to be with

1345
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,120
you and nothing is going to take you away from me.

1346
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,120
End quote.

1347
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:01,000
Milenex maintained that these were simply text messages that proved that she was going

1348
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,760
to run away with Alan that night, not proof that they planned on killing her mother.

1349
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,200
Alan was willing to take complete responsibility for the murder.

1350
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,320
His side of events was that on the night of September 12th, the couple planned on running

1351
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,720
away together.

1352
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,600
With her dad gone, there was at least one less person in the house that could catch

1353
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,800
them attempting to leave.

1354
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:24,360
When Alan entered the house around 1.45 a.m., Barbara woke up to find the couple with their

1355
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:25,960
things packed.

1356
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,640
An argument ensued and Alan had had enough.

1357
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:34,000
He closed the bedroom door and killed Barbara while Milenex listened in horror.

1358
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,240
Alan was steadfast that Milenex did not help him clean up the scene as he wanted to take

1359
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,080
all of the blame should they be caught.

1360
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:45,560
He also came up with a kidnapping story so that Milenex would not be at fault at all.

1361
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:50,240
So he was the one that said, tell them that you were kidnapped, that way you have no responsibility.

1362
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:51,480
They think they're geniuses.

1363
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:57,000
Of course, but I'm like, no, because all the evidence points to her being the one.

1364
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,560
You know what I mean?

1365
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,920
I think it's funny that people in situations like this think that they can just explain

1366
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,000
the way, over-explain something and it's going to be believed.

1367
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,920
And if they say the same thing over and over, it's just going to be believed.

1368
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,440
You don't understand.

1369
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,520
Evidence is contradicting what you're saying.

1370
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,120
It's not that I don't believe you just because it's you.

1371
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,520
The evidence is telling me that you're fucking lying.

1372
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:19,520
Absolutely.

1373
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:20,600
Yeah, it's pretty plain.

1374
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,280
Yeah, pretty cut and dry.

1375
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,640
The defense would paint the narrative that Rachel was an abused young girl who found

1376
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,160
no other choice but to have her boyfriend murder her mother.

1377
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,160
And even though it was the last thing that she wanted, she loved her mother very much.

1378
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:39,160
And then even if she was capable of the crime, Rachel simply wasn't strong enough to dispose

1379
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:40,240
the body alone.

1380
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,560
So yeah, absolutely.

1381
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,640
He is guilty.

1382
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,680
So you can't just put all the blame on Rachel, essentially, is what her defense was saying.

1383
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:47,920
I mean, it's true, though.

1384
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,160
He is just as much as fault as she is at fault.

1385
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,960
Bruce Mellenics came to his daughter's defense saying that all of the years that Barbara

1386
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,160
abused Rachel, he never once saw Rachel ever raise a hand to her mother.

1387
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,840
Alex, Rachel's half-brother, said about the circumstances, quote, I'm shocked that a

1388
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,880
murder happened, but then I'm not.

1389
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,360
You can't go around treating people like that and then think that nothing will happen.

1390
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,400
At any time, anything can spin out of control, end quote.

1391
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:14,400
That's her son.

1392
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:15,400
Yeah, that's her son.

1393
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,120
And he knows the situation through and through.

1394
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:20,800
He hasn't lived there for a reason.

1395
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,000
He also said, quote, emotionally and mentally, she choked Rachel, end quote.

1396
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,280
I completely agree.

1397
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:27,800
Me too.

1398
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,680
The defense may have had a solid case had it not been for the prosecutions, witness

1399
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,040
the forensic pathologist.

1400
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:39,360
The pathologist explained that given the various sizes of the stab wounds, how they were placed

1401
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,680
and how the murder was carried out, at least two people would have had to perpetrate this

1402
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,680
crime.

1403
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:45,920
Oh, wow.

1404
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,680
Because she also had stab wounds summed to the back of her leg.

1405
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,800
But given the fact that these were all created while she was alive, there's no way you wouldn't

1406
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,360
be able to do it fast enough if it was more than this.

1407
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,440
From head to feet, essentially.

1408
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,520
It would have to take two people at other ends of the bed.

1409
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,840
Oh my God, that's so fucked up.

1410
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:04,240
That's so brutal.

1411
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:05,960
It is.

1412
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,000
Barbara was asleep when she was stabbed over 50 times and the evidence showed that the

1413
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:16,280
butter knife that was plunged into Barbara's eye occurred while she was alive.

1414
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:17,920
That's so awful.

1415
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,640
The jury deliberated for just a few hours and both Alan and Mlynix were found guilty

1416
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,000
of first degree intentional homicide.

1417
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,960
Both were sentenced to 25 years to life.

1418
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:34,400
After sentencing, Ian Allen confessed that what others already knew, that Rachel Mlynix

1419
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:39,840
did in fact help him commit the murder, which he had maintained throughout his entire trial.

1420
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:44,040
I think he found like, this is the defense that I have, I'm going to go with it, or the

1421
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,440
defense that I can possibly help her.

1422
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:52,680
I think once he was in court and he was hearing what her defense team was saying, which is

1423
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:58,400
that he was the sole perpetrator, and essentially she turned her back on him and said that he

1424
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,200
was the soft-footed person and he held her at gunpoint and all that sort of stuff, I

1425
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:02,600
think he realized he fucked up.

1426
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:03,600
Yeah, absolutely.

1427
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,480
He's like, wait a second, I don't want...

1428
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,240
I thought I was doing something to protect her, but she doesn't give a shit.

1429
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:09,240
She doesn't give a shit about me.

1430
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:10,800
She wants me to be thrown under the bus.

1431
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:11,800
Exactly.

1432
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:16,080
So after he was convicted and sentenced, he said that she had perpetrated this crime.

1433
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:17,080
Yeah, I...

1434
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:18,080
I already found guilty of it anyway.

1435
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,080
I was going to say, and arguably, like my opinion, she was the one that suggested the

1436
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,600
crime and planned it, you know?

1437
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:25,600
Yeah, absolutely.

1438
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,840
And she was the one that was texting him, oh, she's asleep, she just had a Xanax, she

1439
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,400
didn't have a Xanax, whatever it was.

1440
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:36,080
Neither Alex nor Bruce feel like Rachel Milenex is a danger to society.

1441
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:41,080
Even Alex going so far is to say that his sister has suffered enough in her life.

1442
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:45,120
Rachel still maintains her innocence, citing that she was a young, dumb girl who just dated

1443
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,840
the wrong guy, I'll say.

1444
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:52,400
Both Alan and Milenex are awaiting their appeals, both claiming the reason that the crime happened

1445
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,880
in the first place was that there was no way to get out of the abuse that Barbara put Rachel

1446
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:56,880
through.

1447
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:57,880
And it's so hard.

1448
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,160
It's just like a Menendez situation, an Egypt Zero situation.

1449
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:02,160
It's like...

1450
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:03,160
Do they deserve to die?

1451
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:04,160
...the victims in the case.

1452
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:05,160
Yeah.

1453
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:06,160
Do they deserve to die?

1454
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:07,160
I don't know.

1455
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,160
Do...

1456
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:09,160
Does Rachel deserve to be in prison for sure?

1457
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,160
I don't know.

1458
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:11,160
You know what I mean?

1459
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:12,160
Like, it's hard.

1460
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:13,160
It is hard.

1461
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:14,480
Because, of course, she was going through abuse.

1462
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:15,480
It's very clear.

1463
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:16,480
We've seen it.

1464
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:17,480
Yeah.

1465
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,000
But there's not a really...

1466
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,200
I would say the only justifiable excuse for killing somebody is to save an innocent life.

1467
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:25,200
I always say that.

1468
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:26,200
Yeah.

1469
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:27,520
Was she saving her own life by doing that?

1470
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:28,520
You know, it's hard.

1471
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:29,520
It's really hard.

1472
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:30,520
Yeah, exactly.

1473
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:31,520
Oh, I got the heaves.

1474
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:32,520
I know.

1475
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:33,520
It's just...

1476
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:37,480
It is this kind of like that Gypsy Rose type situation where you're being...

1477
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,120
You know, abuse is abuse.

1478
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:40,120
Yeah.

1479
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:41,440
You know, abuse is abuse.

1480
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:47,000
It does the abuser other options, and that's the thing is, you know, in the Gypsy Rose case,

1481
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,520
in the Menendez case, in this case, they feel like they don't have another option.

1482
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:52,520
Yeah, exactly.

1483
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:53,520
They've been taught.

1484
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:58,560
They've been taught that if I were to go to police, she's just going to say that I'm

1485
01:05:58,560 --> 01:05:59,560
crazy.

1486
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,440
She's just going to say that I hit her or cut her or abused her.

1487
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,440
And who's to believe me?

1488
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:05,440
I'm just a kid.

1489
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:06,440
Yeah, exactly.

1490
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:07,440
You know?

1491
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:08,440
Exactly.

1492
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:09,440
And they lash out.

1493
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,760
And it's definitely a byproduct in all of the situations with the three that we just

1494
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:14,760
talked about.

1495
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,440
It's a byproduct of what the victim, the ultimate victim did.

1496
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:19,440
Yeah.

1497
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:27,960
It's...you subjected your child to that abuse, and they did what they did because they suffered

1498
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,480
from your...like, at your abuse.

1499
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,360
And again, we're not victim blaming here.

1500
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:32,720
No, absolutely not.

1501
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:37,760
Just there is a real psychological thing that happens, and it is a cycle of abuse, and

1502
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:44,360
these people would probably be diagnosed PTSD if it got to that point.

1503
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,840
PTSD, this is all trauma response.

1504
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:54,720
And even in Barbara's case, she dealt with PTSD from the rape, giving up her child.

1505
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,600
She was clearly coping with drug and alcohol use.

1506
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:05,760
So yeah, she probably was either suppressing that or she had substance use disorder, things

1507
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:06,760
like that.

1508
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,760
But there's some very...again, a lot of the times when we do these cases, there are very

1509
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,120
real steps that could have been taken to prevent a tragedy like this.

1510
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:15,120
Absolutely.

1511
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:16,120
There definitely has.

1512
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:21,000
And I don't think that...I mean, I don't necessarily agree with everything that Bruce

1513
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:26,560
did, but I don't know the story well enough to say that he didn't do everything he thought

1514
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:27,560
he could.

1515
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:28,560
Right.

1516
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:29,560
You know?

1517
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,120
I think that he probably thought that relationships and marriages go through shit.

1518
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:34,120
Yeah.

1519
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:38,360
And I definitely watched an interview with him, and he definitely seems like a kind guy.

1520
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:39,840
Yeah, I don't doubt that.

1521
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,520
Yeah, he definitely seems like a kind guy.

1522
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,840
Alex seems like a really well-adjusted kind guy who's really successful.

1523
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:56,520
And I think that it's a case of someone experiencing something that they might be illiquid to deal

1524
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:01,920
with where they didn't maybe recognize the warning signs.

1525
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:07,200
Maybe they did think it's better to tip-till around her than to force her in any kind of

1526
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,520
way to go get treatment or help.

1527
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,520
But I think that maybe it's just one of those things that if you become aware of somebody

1528
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:20,280
else's disorder or potential diagnosis that you can say in a gentle way.

1529
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,200
Maybe this is something that you're experiencing.

1530
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,440
Maybe this is something...you know, I did a little research on this.

1531
01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:25,440
Yeah.

1532
01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:28,120
Instead of it just being like, oh, that's Barbara, you know?

1533
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:29,120
That's Barb.

1534
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:30,120
Yeah, that's Barb.

1535
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:31,120
Yeah, exactly.

1536
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,840
And it's way easier said than done.

1537
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:34,840
Of course.

1538
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:35,840
Of course.

1539
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,920
And I think that Bruce's solution was like, let me get some distance here.

1540
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,800
Let me figure out myself and then maybe I can be better prepared once Rachel graduates

1541
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,280
high school and she can come live with me.

1542
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,680
I don't think that he did it in a way that was...like he was trying to ignore the situation.

1543
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:51,680
Or also figured out.

1544
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,480
He clearly very much loves his car.

1545
01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:54,480
Yeah, absolutely.

1546
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:55,480
I agree.

1547
01:08:55,480 --> 01:08:56,480
Well, that was a wild case.

1548
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:58,680
I actually never even heard of any of those people before.

1549
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,640
She's been on my list for a really long time, actually.

1550
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,160
Yeah, I would say at least the last year or two.

1551
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,160
Oh, wow.

1552
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,160
Dang.

1553
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:06,160
Well, not too...it couldn't be two.

1554
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:07,160
Couldn't be two.

1555
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,720
Yeah, at least the last year.

1556
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:09,720
Wow.

1557
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:10,720
Thanks for bringing that.

1558
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:11,720
For sure.

1559
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:12,720
Thanks for listening.

1560
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:13,720
Do you have anything else?

1561
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:14,720
No, I think we're good.

1562
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:15,720
Okay, well thanks for joining us guys.

1563
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,720
We will see you next week with another mental breakdown.

1564
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,720
We have like literally one more week and a half until the festivals.

1565
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:22,720
We got our pens.

1566
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:23,720
We got our pens.

1567
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:24,720
Our pens came in.

1568
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,720
We're gonna have to ship out some pens.

1569
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:27,720
Yeah, for sure.

1570
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:32,440
Guys, if you haven't checked out the Patreon exclusive message, if you're a Patreon member,

1571
01:09:32,440 --> 01:09:36,320
hop over to Patreon and get your exclusive message from us.

1572
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,560
And yeah, let us know.

1573
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,520
It's only like two minutes, but it's a very love filled two minutes.

1574
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:42,520
It is.

1575
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:43,520
It's a love fest.

1576
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:44,520
And we love all the listeners equally.

1577
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,520
It's true.

1578
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:46,520
Absolutely.

1579
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:47,520
It's very true.

1580
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:48,520
Yes.

1581
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:49,520
Well, I think I just said love three times, but love you.

1582
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:50,520
Love you.

1583
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:51,520
Bye.

1584
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:52,520
Bye.

1585
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:59,400
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01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:00,400
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