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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Dianosing a Killer, The Mental Breakdown.

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The minty breaky!

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Minty breaky!

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Oh, did it.

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I'm kind of...

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I'm Koel.

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That was a really great high note you hit there.

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Thanks. How does Mariah Carey do that?

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Dude, the earth-shattering, like, glass-breaking noise. I don't know.

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Speaking of earth-shattering, I feel like my eardrum has been ruptured because we started.

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When we started, we always do like a test-test-testing or whatever.

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Testies, testies, one, two.

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One, two, one, two, three. You have...

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Testies is funny.

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To go see the doctor.

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But we started and we always do like a test check, sound check or whatever.

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Because the software that we use tends to update itself without letting us know.

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So all of the settings are changed every once in a while when we come in and we're like, fuck.

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So we turned it on and we almost went, hello!

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Like, really loud. And it was the loudest thing I think I ever heard.

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It made me jump. We didn't even talk. The silence was loud.

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Yeah, that's the kind of stuff. The silence was loud.

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And we knew.

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Yeah, it was really scary.

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But then we tested it another time and I had my headset all the way on and you touch the microphone or something.

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And moved it or something.

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And it was so loud. It was my mistake for keeping my headset on.

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It's the kind of loud where like, you know it's coming but it still startles you.

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It's that loud, you know what I mean?

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She made fun of me because I did this like spasm.

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It was really loud.

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And it's so funny.

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So now I feel like my ear is bleeding.

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Well, I think we're finally good. It's still kind of like a little loud but it's definitely not as loud as it was.

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Yeah, I'm just gonna rest my headset on one ear.

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There you go.

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Just to kind of...

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I'm not even kidding. I feel like I have a headache.

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Oh, sorry.

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That's okay.

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Well, I cleared a bunch of space in the software that we usually record.

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So now we have 17 hours worth of recording in space.

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Yeah.

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Super excited about that.

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We hope that you guys have been enjoying our recent episodes, especially with Ted Bundith Part 2 coming out.

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I bet that was a really good conclusion to that story.

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I think that second episode was good.

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It was good. I thought it was funny.

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I think we sounded a little silly.

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We're funny. We're funny people.

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We're just funny people.

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Oh, if you can't laugh at yourself.

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And sometimes, you know, we always like to say this, we laugh because we're uncomfortable, not because we're dicks.

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We laugh at Ted Bundith.

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Oh, well, yeah, I mean, obviously.

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Creeper.

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Anyway, oh yeah, then Dama, if you're a Patreon member, then you definitely probably already heard

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Jeff V. Dama.

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And I hope that you enjoyed that as well.

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Speaking of Patrons, we actually got a new Patreon.

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And that is Jennifer.

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Thanks, Jennifer.

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Thanks, Jennifer.

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She's actually been talking about meeting up with us in Austin for the meet and greet, just to get like coffee or like get a drink or something.

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I would love to get coffee for a quarter.

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Yeah, that would be cool.

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So we should definitely talk more about that.

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I just like briefly mentioned it to you right before recording.

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And then I started thinking about it.

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And then it was just, and then it just happened.

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It was like sticking a pencil in my ear.

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Yep.

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That's great.

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But thanks, Jennifer.

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We hope that you're looking forward to the bonus episodes that come along with your Patreon subscription.

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And when we see you in Austin, we will definitely bring you a sticker.

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Yeah, I'm excited to meet you, Jennifer.

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So what do you got for us today?

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Oh, do you want to give everyone our handles and stuff before you get into the case?

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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You can check us out at diagnosingatkiller.com.

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There you can find links to merch and resources.

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Check us out on social media at diagnosingatkiller.

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Everywhere except Twitter, which is at killer diagnosis.

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I think that's it.

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I think that's it.

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Check us out.

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Yeah, email us, diagnosingatkiller.com.

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If you'd like to support us monetarily, do you want to become a Patreon member?

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And you're like, what the hell does that mean?

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Go to patreon.com slash diagnosingatkiller.

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Or that Patreon link is on all of our social media, including our website.

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There you will be able to choose a tier, our tier two and three patrons do get an additional bonus episode every month on the 29th.

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And that is completely content-warning free, completely editing free, super gory content, like a little bit more than we would normally put on the cast.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Dahmer was a little tummy churning.

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Oh yeah.

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So we've done Albert Fish, we've done Dahmer, and we've done Toy Box.

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And I think I actually figured mine out for this month.

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I already have August ready to go.

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I'm just, I need to just jump into it because it's going to be highly uncomfortable.

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Oh yeah, for sure.

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So it's important to take mental breaks when we do cases like that.

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Absolutely.

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And that's another reason why we always want to remind you guys that your mental health is super important to us.

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So we want to give you that content warning in the beginning of our regular episodes and just make sure that you guys are taking care of yourselves.

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Other than the Patreon episodes, there's no warnings whatsoever.

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Well, you know what you're getting into with this.

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You know what you're getting into.

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Shall we begin?

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Today we are going to be talking about dependent personality disorder.

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Oh yes, I've been wanting to do this one because I feel like we mentioned this like every mental breakdown.

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Yeah.

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And we kind of just talk about it, but we've never done a full episode on it.

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It's very interesting.

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And I did want to tackle a personality disorder because we haven't really talked about one in a while.

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Yeah.

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So yeah.

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Content warning, in this episode we will be discussing dependent personality disorder.

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Some criteria that we will be tackling may lead to discussions that include topics surrounding emotional or physical abuse.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.

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Remember that your mental health comes first and is very important to us.

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We love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Most of what I have is going to be from the DSM-5.

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Okay.

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So just because it does a really great job of explaining the criteria and such.

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Okay.

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Cool.

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So you're going to hear my book, Kenneth's book.

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Oh yay.

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Number one, has difficulty making everyday decisions without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others?

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I should say their life.

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Number three, has difficulty expressing disagreement with others because of fear of loss, support and approval?

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Note, do not include realistic fears of retribution.

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Number four, has difficulty initiating projects or doing things on his or her own because of a lack of self-confidence and judgment or abilities rather than a lack of motivation or energy?

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So you just like don't.

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So you just don't initiate projects because you lack the self-confidence.

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Number five, goes to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others to the point of volunteering to do things that are unpleasant?

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It's so funny because, not funny, but I've been researching a lot about this disorder recently just on my own and I was actually thinking about maybe bringing it as a mental breakdown so I'm glad you're doing this.

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Yeah.

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But it's funny because I've like nearly memorized all of those criteria really because I've read them so many times.

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But honestly like if you really think about it, I feel like every one of us, listeners included, could probably think about one person in their life at least that shows like one or two of those.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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You know, because that's pretty understandable if someone feels some of those types of ways.

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Right, yeah.

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Number six, feels...

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Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were done.

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No.

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It's fine.

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Number six, feels uncomfortable or helpless when alone because of exaggerated fears of being unable to care for oneself.

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Number seven, urgently seeks another relationship as a source of care and support when a close relationship ends, which I found interesting.

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Yeah, very interesting.

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Number eight, is unrealistically preoccupied with fears of being left to take care of themselves.

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Oh wow, I didn't know that one.

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Yeah, unrealistically preoccupied with fears of being left to take...

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Like that's too much.

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Yeah.

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So like have to take care of yourself so you seek out someone else to do it for you.

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It's almost like a really mild version of Munchhausen.

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Yeah.

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Like you're not hurting yourself to get people to take care of you but you're internalizing like that you want people to take care of you.

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Yeah.

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You need that.

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That's that specific attention.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's not interesting.

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So yes, if you have met five or more of those criteria, you may suffer from dependent personality disorder.

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So the dependent and submissive behaviors that one might be experiencing or exuding are designed to elicit a caregiving and like response from another person and arise from self-perception of being unable to function adequately without the help of others.

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Individuals with dependent personality disorder have a great difficulty making everyday decisions from what color shirt they might wear or whether or not to carry an umbrella in case it rains.

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And this is without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others so they constantly need that reassurance or guidance.

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Yeah.

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So I don't know what color, what color shirt do you think I should wear?

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Yep.

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Should I wear this?

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Should I wear that?

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Exactly.

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And I feel like I know a couple people like that.

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They have to, like if they're experiencing like any sort of conflict, whether it's that small or something major, they talk to like everybody in their life about it and try to get everyone's input on it before they make a decision on what to do moving forward.

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Yeah.

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I'm going to take like two different types of selfies and then send them to a few people and get everybody's opinion on what I should wear.

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Yeah.

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These individuals also tend to be passive and allow other people, often a single other person, to take the initiative and assume responsibility for most major areas of their life, which is criterion two.

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Can't make, you know, the decision for the group.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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It's got to be, and not only that, but like most major areas, like what kind of job they should have.

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Yeah.

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And stuff like that, which, you know, is interesting.

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Yeah, for sure.

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The results with this disorder typically depend on a, depend on a parent or a spouse to decide where they should live, what kind of job they should have, which neighbors to be friends.

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Adolescents with this disorder may allow their parents to decide what they should wear or whom they should associate with, how they should spend their free time and maybe what school or college they should attend.

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God, that's got to be exhausting.

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All the time.

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Just like always needing someone else's thought process or opinion to make your decision.

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It's exhausting for the people around them too.

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Oh yeah, absolutely.

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Like having, literally having to take care of another child.

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And I feel like that's so much easier to kind of fall into a disorder like that or not fall into, but to show like more signs than in the past because now conversation is so accessible.

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Right.

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So instead of waking up and waiting until you see someone in person to ask them something like you can just use someone to text first thing in the morning.

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Or hop on Instagram or whatever and get that validation.

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Yeah.

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This need for others to assume responsibility goes beyond age appropriate and situation appropriate requests for assistance from others.

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Like the specific needs of a child, an elderly person or someone who needs further assistance.

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Dependent personality disorder may occur in an individual who has a serious medical condition or disability, but in such cases the difficulty in taking responsibility must go beyond what would normally be associated with that type of condition or disability.

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Yeah.

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And again, that can very easily turn into munchausen.

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Right.

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If you do get that satisfaction of someone taking care of you after you've been sick, then continually trying to like keep yourself sick.

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Right.

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To get that invalidation.

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That would change that diagnosis.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I would think so.

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But again, it's if you have a serious medical condition and you're not abusing it essentially.

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Yeah.

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That's, you know, wouldn't be cause for that or for a diagnosis.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I'm going to adjust my leg here.

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Because they fear losing support or approval, individuals with dependent personality disorder often have difficulty expressing disagreements with other individuals, especially those on whom they are dependent on.

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So you just refuse to kind of have a disagreement.

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You know, one might call it like people pleasing or something.

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Yeah.

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So that you don't have to lose that person that you're dependent on.

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You always want to kind of please that person so that you always have someone around you.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And you want to kind of butter them up so to speak like all the time.

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Yeah.

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Like by doing things that might put you out of your comfort zone.

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Right.

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You know.

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These individuals feel so unable to function alone that they will agree to do things that they feel are wrong rather than risk losing the help of those to whom they seek for guidance essentially.

237
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:36,500
You don't get appropriately angry at others who support and nurture them out of fear for alienation.

238
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:38,500
Like they don't want to alienate that person.

239
00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:43,500
So again, they won't, even if they are upset, they might just rein it in.

240
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:44,500
Yeah.

241
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:48,500
To not have to have a discussion around it or to further upset the other person.

242
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:55,500
So which, you know, just makes me think like in certain times, everybody's been in a situation where somebody has said something that you don't like.

243
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:56,500
Yeah.

244
00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:05,500
This would essentially be like someone you should be comfortable enough with to have a discussion around not approving of what someone else has said or done.

245
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:06,500
Yeah, exactly.

246
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:12,500
And in this case, it is almost essentially to the detriment of yourself that you don't say something because you're just bottling it in.

247
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:13,500
Yeah, exactly.

248
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:18,500
You're bottling it in and then also like when it does come out, then it becomes this big, excuse me, this big blow up.

249
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:19,500
Yeah.

250
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:20,500
The main potential, I don't know.

251
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,500
Why didn't you tell me it bothered you then?

252
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:27,500
Because it wasn't a big deal before, but now that it's been festering, it could potentially become a very big deal.

253
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:28,500
Right.

254
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:36,500
Well, it could have already originally been a big deal, but nobody's, you didn't say anything because you were trying to not push that other person away.

255
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:37,500
Yeah, it's interesting.

256
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:45,500
Just really quick, you know how we talk about epigenetics and how, you know, develop, disorders can develop based off like a past trauma or something.

257
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:53,500
And then you're like, you know, you're going to be able to get away from the trauma and then you're going to get away from the trauma to the surface.

258
00:14:53,500 --> 00:15:03,500
I wonder if the past trauma, if you will, and like a person that might have dependent personality disorder would be someone blowing up and leaving their lives, perhaps a parent.

259
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:07,500
You know, they blew up at their other parent and they decided that they're going to get a divorce and they leave.

260
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:08,500
Yeah.

261
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:13,500
And they're very fearful that the next time someone gets angry around them or at them, that same thing is going to happen.

262
00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:14,500
Yeah, I totally agree with that.

263
00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:15,500
I'm so smart.

264
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:16,500
I'm so smart.

265
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:30,500
If the individual's concerns regarding the consequences of expressing disagreement are realistic, like realistic fears of retribution and an abuse of, with an abusive spouse, the behavior should not be considered to be evidence of dependent personality disorder.

266
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:31,500
Yeah, absolutely.

267
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,500
Because again, you're in fear for your fucking life.

268
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:36,500
Yeah, that would fall out, definitely out of the criteria for sure.

269
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:39,500
I'm crossing my legs again.

270
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:46,500
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271
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,500
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272
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274
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276
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277
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278
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:38,500
Individuals with this disorder have difficulty initiating projects or doing things independently, like we mentioned in criterion 4.

279
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:44,500
They lack self-confidence and believe that they need help to begin and carry through those tasks.

280
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:45,500
I definitely don't have this.

281
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:46,500
Right?

282
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:48,500
I'm over here putting two of my quicks.

283
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:53,500
I applied for fucking grad school the other day and I didn't even have to.

284
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,500
It was so exciting.

285
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:57,500
We shall see.

286
00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:04,500
They will wait for others to start things because they believe that as a rule, others can do them better.

287
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:06,500
Other people can just do it better.

288
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:08,500
That's kinda sad though.

289
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:09,500
But they lack the self-confidence.

290
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:10,500
I know, that's really sad.

291
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,500
Well, you guys will take care of it.

292
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:17,500
Yeah, I'm not even gonna touch that because someone else can probably do it better than I can.

293
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:20,500
I'm sad.

294
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:31,500
These individuals are convinced that they are incapable of functioning independently and present themselves as a NEPT and require constant assistance.

295
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:36,500
They also don't just feel that way but they present that way.

296
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:37,500
I just can't.

297
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,500
I'm incapable.

298
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,500
Someone has to do it for me.

299
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,500
Yeah, I can see that.

300
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,500
I can also see it being something very...

301
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:51,500
Very embarrassing.

302
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:55,500
For someone to admit that they can't do it.

303
00:17:55,500 --> 00:18:02,500
They'll maybe make a comment insinuating that the other person can take care of it but not saying that they can't.

304
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:07,500
You probably do it better than me but not saying, oh, I can't do that.

305
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:08,500
I just can.

306
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,500
They probably do say, I can't do this.

307
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,500
Probably to themselves, especially.

308
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:20,500
This is an entire personality type.

309
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:23,500
That it's just me.

310
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,500
I am the meeker, weaker person and I can't do it as well as you can.

311
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:28,500
Yeah, that makes sense.

312
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,500
It's wrapped up in praise almost.

313
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,500
You're just the best.

314
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:35,500
You're the best at it.

315
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,500
I can't do that.

316
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:39,500
I can see it either way.

317
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:49,500
On the flip, they are likely to function adequately if given the reassurance that someone else is supervising them or is approving other actions.

318
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,500
Okay, I can see that.

319
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:53,500
I can do it but you need to walk me through it.

320
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,500
I won't be able to just do it on my own.

321
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:56,500
For sure.

322
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,500
They need someone to say, no, I'm right here with you.

323
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,500
You can do this.

324
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,500
It's kind of hard to get a job and stuff if you have this personality stuff.

325
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,500
But if you feel validated in your position, then...

326
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:10,500
There you go.

327
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:17,500
There may be a fear of becoming or appearing to be more competent because they believe that this will lead to abandonment.

328
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,500
Like, oh, you can handle it on your own.

329
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:20,500
You can handle it on your own.

330
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:22,500
You've got this covered.

331
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:30,500
Because they rely on others to handle their problems, they often do not learn the skills of independent living, thus perpetuating dependency.

332
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,500
Oh yeah, they probably live at home for a very long time.

333
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:36,500
Or get stuck in a roommate situation for a very long time.

334
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:38,500
That's got to be so hard.

335
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:39,500
I can't even imagine.

336
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:41,500
That's got to be so draining.

337
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:47,500
Individuals with dependent personality disorder may go to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others,

338
00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:54,500
even to the point of volunteering for unpleasant tasks if such behavior will bring the care that they require.

339
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,500
Like, for example, maybe going to...

340
00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:02,500
Out of your way, maybe 30 minutes to pick somebody up because you really want them to come with you.

341
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:08,500
Or maybe dealing with a friend that you know isn't good for your partner because your partner likes that friend.

342
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:09,500
Ah, okay.

343
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:18,500
You know, like, I'm putting myself in an uncomfortable situation and I can't speak to that because if I say something bad about your friend,

344
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:20,500
then you might get mad at me.

345
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:21,500
You might choose your friend, don't you?

346
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:23,500
Yes, exactly.

347
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:29,500
They are willing to submit to what others want even if the demands are unreasonable.

348
00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:35,500
Their need to maintain an important bond will often result in imbalance or distorted relationships.

349
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:41,500
They may take extraordinary self-sacrifices or tolerate verbal, physical, or sexual abuse.

350
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:46,500
It should be noted that this behavior should be considered evidence of a dependent personality disorder

351
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:53,500
only when it is clearly established that the other options that are available the individual ignores.

352
00:20:53,500 --> 00:21:02,500
So, again, if you're in a domestic violence situation and you have nowhere else to go, that wouldn't be considered dependent personality disorder.

353
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:12,500
But if the option was to maybe spend time with a partner or go to work and you choose not to go to work and spend time with that partner,

354
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:17,500
even though that option is there, then that would be considered a dependent behavior.

355
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:19,500
That makes sense.

356
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:23,500
Individuals with this disorder feel uncomfortable or helpless when alone

357
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:27,500
because they're exaggerated fears of being unable to care for themselves.

358
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,500
That's part of the criteria in six.

359
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:34,500
They will tag along, quote, unquote, with important others just to avoid being alone,

360
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:38,500
even if they're not interested or actually involved with what's happening in the situation.

361
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:46,500
Yeah, and I feel like honestly with any mental disorder, solitude is not going to help that.

362
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:49,500
It's just going to perpetuate your fears and your ideas,

363
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:54,500
especially something like schizophrenia spectrum disorder or delusional disorder.

364
00:21:54,500 --> 00:22:02,500
So that's where it's got to be hard for this because one of the criteria is that you can't, not can't,

365
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:07,500
but a lot of people don't put themselves out there in a fear of failing or thinking that they can't do it,

366
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,500
which results in them being alone a lot at home because they don't have a hobby or a job or whatever.

367
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:16,500
But then being at home makes the symptoms worse.

368
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,500
Worse because they feel, again, alone, abandoned.

369
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,500
It's almost like a self-manifestation.

370
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:30,500
You don't want to be alone, but it's like facing your worst fear if you're going to treat the dependent.

371
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,500
It's like a vision cycle.

372
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:38,500
I just found it interesting that, again, out of fear of being alone,

373
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:44,500
people with dependent personality disorder choose to even put themselves in situations that they're not even a part of.

374
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,500
Yeah, just to be around people.

375
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:47,500
Yeah, just to be around people.

376
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,500
And it would be like, I don't know, inviting, like, I'm going to a wedding this weekend.

377
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,500
Oh, can I come?

378
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:56,500
Yeah, or like, you know, oh, we're all going to go play tennis.

379
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:58,500
Like, I've never played in my life and I won't play.

380
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:00,500
I'll just come and I'll watch or whatever.

381
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:01,500
Exactly.

382
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,500
Like, I'm not even a part of whatever's going on here and I don't know the company,

383
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:07,500
but I do know you and, you know, it's like a gateway.

384
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:13,500
I feel like, again, everybody knows somebody with at least one or more of these criteria.

385
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:15,500
So it's very common.

386
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,500
I'm anxious to hear the prevalence.

387
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:22,500
When a close relationship ends, say, with a breakup with a lover or the death of a caregiver,

388
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:29,500
individuals with dependent personality disorder may urgently seek another relationship to provide the care and support that they require.

389
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:40,500
Their belief that they are unable to function in an absence of a close relationship motivates these individuals to become quickly and indiscriminately attached to another individual.

390
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:41,500
I've seen that before.

391
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:43,500
So it doesn't matter who it is.

392
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,500
I'm just going to run to the next person that will give me that attention.

393
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,500
Yeah, absolutely.

394
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:53,500
Individuals with this disorder are often preoccupied with fears of being left to care for themselves.

395
00:23:53,500 --> 00:24:07,500
They see themselves as so totally dependent on the advice and help of an important other person that they worry about being abandoned by that person when there are no grounds to justify such fears.

396
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:13,500
So to be considered as evidence of this criterion, the fears must be excessive and unrealistic.

397
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:23,500
For example, an elderly man with cancer who moves into his son's household for care is exhibiting dependent behavior that is appropriate given the life circumstance.

398
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:24,500
Of course.

399
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,500
Yeah, like you're not going over there because you can't be alone.

400
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:28,500
You're going over there because you're ill and you need the help.

401
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:29,500
Exactly.

402
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:30,500
Yeah.

403
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:33,500
But it's not like just having to seek out the next person, you know?

404
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,500
So prevalence.

405
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:44,500
Data from 2001 to 2002 National Epidemi... like checkbook survey on alcohol and related conditions.

406
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:46,500
That was a big word.

407
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:48,500
What is it?

408
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:50,500
Epidemiologic.

409
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:51,500
There you go.

410
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:53,500
Yeah, I said that's what I said.

411
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:54,500
Sure.

412
00:24:54,500 --> 00:25:01,500
It yielded an estimated prevalence of dependency, of dependent personality disorder of 0.49%.

413
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:12,500
Dependent personality was estimated based on a probability sub-sample from part two of the National Comorbidity Survey Replication to be 0.6%.

414
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:13,500
Oh, wow.

415
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:14,500
Yeah.

416
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:15,500
That's actually a lot.

417
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:16,500
It's a lot.

418
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:29,500
Well, it's interesting that, you know, we talk about like schizophrenia spectrum, for example, that a trauma might trigger more symptoms or signs of schizophrenia disorder later in life.

419
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:36,500
I really feel like this is one that is probably attached to some type of a, I don't want to say like a PTSD, but a trauma response.

420
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:37,500
Yeah, no, absolutely.

421
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:39,500
And that can be like any trauma.

422
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:41,500
Environmental, physical, emotional, psychological.

423
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:43,500
It doesn't have to be abuse.

424
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,500
It can be a big move.

425
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:49,500
You move away from, you know, your hometown and you lose all of your close friends.

426
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:54,500
Something as simple as that can be an emotional trauma that can cause something like that to surface.

427
00:25:54,500 --> 00:26:05,500
In clinical settings, dependent personality disorder has been diagnosed more frequently in females, although some studies report similar prevalence rates, prevalence rates among males and females.

428
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:12,500
So, there are five main types of dependent personality disorder, and I'm going to talk about those real quick.

429
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:13,500
Oh, interesting.

430
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:22,500
So, disquieted dependent, including avoidant features, manifests as restlessly perturbed, disconcerted, and fretful.

431
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,500
What do all those words mean?

432
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:26,500
Like, yeah, for sure.

433
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:27,500
Perturbed?

434
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:29,500
Perturbed, isn't that like disconcerted?

435
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:32,500
Isn't perturbed like, just like miffed?

436
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:33,500
A loof?

437
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:39,500
No, like miffed, like just, just a, no not that one either.

438
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,500
Okay.

439
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:42,500
I'm over here like I'm wicked smack.

440
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,500
Fucking wicked smack.

441
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:44,500
Okay, just keep going.

442
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:46,500
I'll use context clues.

443
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:56,500
This person feels dread and foreboding, apprehensively vulnerable to abandonment, lonely unless near supportive figures, which is, you know.

444
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:02,500
So, the next one is the selfless dependent, including masochistic features.

445
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:21,500
So, this person merges with and immersed into another person, so like has to be completely immersed by someone, is engulfed, enshrouded, absorbed, incorporated, willing to give up their own identity, and becomes one with or an extension of another.

446
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:24,500
That sounds like Carlo Hamoko.

447
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:25,500
Right?

448
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:27,500
The selfless dependent.

449
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:32,500
Like you, I will turn myself into a murderer to keep you and I together and to be happy.

450
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:33,500
Yeah.

451
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:34,500
That's why.

452
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:35,500
Because this is what you want.

453
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:36,500
Yeah.

454
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,500
The immature dependent, which is a variant of pure pattern apparently.

455
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:55,500
This person is unsophisticated, half grown, unversed, childlike, underdeveloped, inexperienced, gullible, uninformed, incapable of assuming adult responsibilities.

456
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,500
Yeah, that's like kind of fucked up like all those words.

457
00:27:58,500 --> 00:27:59,500
Like what a day.

458
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:02,500
That sounds like a really shitty situation.

459
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:03,500
Seriously.

460
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:08,500
But I mean, it's just because of probably when it started manifesting.

461
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:09,500
Of course.

462
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:11,500
And you've just learned to be that way.

463
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:12,500
And yeah.

464
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:18,500
Maybe you weren't nurtured as a child, you know, maybe not in an extreme way, but that's what gives you comfort.

465
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:19,500
Yeah.

466
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,500
And you just don't need to grow up.

467
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:22,500
Overly nurtured.

468
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:23,500
Yeah.

469
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:24,500
Definitely.

470
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:26,500
Accommodating dependent.

471
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:28,500
This is including histrionic features.

472
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:29,500
Oh.

473
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:43,500
This person is gracious, neighborly, eager, benevolent, compliant, obliging, agreeable, denies disturbing feelings, and adopts submissive and inferior roles.

474
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:46,500
So one person that's like too happy and always wanting to hang out.

475
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:47,500
Like a Stepford wife.

476
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:48,500
Yeah.

477
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:50,500
Just like there's nothing wrong in the world at all.

478
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:51,500
Yeah.

479
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:55,500
And I'm never going to let you see that I'm upset and I'm always going to be available to hang out.

480
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:56,500
Yeah.

481
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:57,500
Yeah.

482
00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:04,500
So then the last one that we have is the ineffectual dependent, including a schizoid features.

483
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:05,500
Oh, wow.

484
00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:06,500
Schizoid.

485
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:07,500
Is that right?

486
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:08,500
Schizoid, yeah.

487
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:20,500
This person is unproductive, gainless, incompetent, meritless, seeks untroubled life, refuses to deal with difficulties, and is untroubled by shortcomings.

488
00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:21,500
Oh, wow.

489
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:23,500
So a little bit, that's aloof, like unbothered.

490
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,500
Yeah, I would think so.

491
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:29,500
Just a little like eh, but seeks an untroubled life.

492
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:30,500
That's interesting.

493
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:31,500
That is interesting.

494
00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:33,500
I mean, I seek an untroubled life.

495
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,500
Yeah.

496
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:35,500
Refuses to deal with difficulties.

497
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:40,500
This is going to, like this kind of person reminds me of someone who would be like a train hopper.

498
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:42,500
Like it's like I'm not worried about anything.

499
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:43,500
I'm a free spirit.

500
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,500
I'm just going to, I'm a free spirit.

501
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:48,500
But wants to talk to like everyone that they see on the train.

502
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:49,500
Have to.

503
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:54,500
Yeah, to maintain that connection with just people.

504
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,500
Yeah.

505
00:29:55,500 --> 00:30:02,500
So a little bit of history of DPD, which came from Wikipedia, sorry.

506
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:15,500
The conceptualization of dependency within classical psychoanalytic theory is directly related to Freud's oral psychosexual stage of development.

507
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:30,500
So frustration or over gratification was said to result in an oral fixation and in the oral type of character characterized by feelings, feeling dependent on others for nurturance and behaviors by representative of the oral stage.

508
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:31,500
Dang.

509
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:32,500
Forgive me.

510
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:33,500
It's a lot.

511
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:45,500
So in the earlier psychoanalytic theories shifted the focus from a drive based approach of dependency to the recognition of the importance of early relationships and establishing separation from early caregivers.

512
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:54,500
So in which the exchange between the caregiver and the child become internalized and the nature of these interactions become part of the concepts of the self and of others.

513
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:55,500
Oh, wow.

514
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:56,500
Yeah.

515
00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:06,500
So I feel like that's a really fancy way of saying like you can literally do like whatever and your kids still might have this because it's an internalized dependency.

516
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:11,500
It's not like that you did something wrong by like taking care of your child.

517
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:16,500
Yeah, but I feel like everybody wants that feeling of being nurtured or taking care of.

518
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:17,500
Of course.

519
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:25,500
But once you get to a certain age, granted you do not have a disorder like this or a mental disorder, you start looking for that as a partner instead of an appraiser.

520
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:26,500
Yeah.

521
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:31,500
And that's where you get that same comfort, but you don't need your parent anymore.

522
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:32,500
Right.

523
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:36,500
I definitely, I can see exactly what you're saying.

524
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:43,500
Nobody wants to really date their mom or their dad, you know, and they don't want to also feel like you're their child.

525
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:44,500
Yeah.

526
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:48,500
And that you as a person having to be someone's parent either.

527
00:31:48,500 --> 00:32:03,500
And it reminds me of this episode of Dr. Phil where the husband was real, like kind of like misogynistic and but she wanted to, she was like, oh, I'm fine with just being this submissive little whoa, whoa, head in the clouds.

528
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:08,500
And Dr. Phil asked, he said, when was the last time you all had sex?

529
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,500
And he was like, I don't know.

530
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:12,500
It's probably been like a year at least.

531
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:15,500
And he's like, yeah, because nobody wants to have sex with their dad.

532
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:17,500
It's pretty true.

533
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:18,500
I mean, that's what it was.

534
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:21,500
And he's like, well, I'm down for it, whatever.

535
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:26,500
And she's like, I'm completely shut off here because you're treating me like a child.

536
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:27,500
Yeah.

537
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:33,500
And I don't, that's, you know, there's somewhere in this, and this somewhere in the subconscious is like, don't do that.

538
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,500
That's weird.

539
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:35,500
Yeah, exactly.

540
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:36,500
He bosses you around all the time.

541
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:37,500
Yeah, for sure.

542
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:48,500
So treatment for DPD can include psychotherapy and sometimes medication is necessary as individuals with DPD can have increased depression and anxiety.

543
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:49,500
Got it.

544
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:50,500
Yeah.

545
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:55,500
So like kind of treat the comorbid symptoms as well as disorder.

546
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:56,500
Yeah, exactly.

547
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,500
And that should lessen those signs and symptoms.

548
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:00,500
That's true, yeah.

549
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,500
But really what it's about is just being self-aware.

550
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:05,500
It really is.

551
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:11,500
And we're not obviously by any means saying that you can just like change your mindset and not have a mental disorder.

552
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:12,500
No, yeah.

553
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:17,500
But it's just really, that's why like one of the main reasons that we do this is education.

554
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:25,500
And the more that you know about a disorder that you might be experiencing or a loved one might be experiencing the earlier you can help and get treatment for that.

555
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:33,500
No one, not everyone with DPD or any mental disorder is going to require treatment or require medication or, you know, talk therapy.

556
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:40,500
But if you can get to it at the root before it becomes out of control, that's the main goal in this.

557
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:41,500
For sure.

558
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:45,500
You know, and you can't, we've talked about it before with epigenetics.

559
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:49,500
Sometimes you can't prevent a mental disorder from developing.

560
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:50,500
Sometimes you're born with it.

561
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:51,500
Sometimes it's genetics.

562
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:52,500
Sometimes it's hereditary.

563
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:53,500
Right.

564
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,500
Sometimes it just comes out over the surface because of the trauma.

565
00:33:56,500 --> 00:34:01,500
So knowing how to approach it if and when it does come up is the key, I think.

566
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:02,500
Right.

567
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:10,500
DPD is as far as we know a hereditary mental disorder.

568
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:17,500
So it is likely that if you experience symptoms like that, a parent is probably experiencing the same symptoms or has.

569
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:20,500
And that's how you just pass it down.

570
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:24,500
If not by nature, then by nurture.

571
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:25,500
Yeah, for sure.

572
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,500
Which is interesting.

573
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:27,500
Yeah, that is really interesting.

574
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:28,500
Well, that was a good one.

575
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:29,500
Thanks.

576
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:30,500
I'm glad you brought that.

577
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:34,500
And of course, you guys know that we always have all of our resources on our website.

578
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:36,500
You can definitely click there.

579
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:42,500
We definitely want you guys to get like the best mental health treatment possible and just be aware of certain things.

580
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:46,500
We are not here to exploit people with these mental disorders.

581
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:47,500
We're here to educate.

582
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:48,500
Of course.

583
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:50,500
And we're here to really get to the root of how to help.

584
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:51,500
And start discussions.

585
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:52,500
Yeah.

586
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:59,500
Not just, you know, I mean, Ken and I are just sitting in a closet, but, you know, start discussions with your friends and family about some of the things that they might be experiencing.

587
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,500
Or it doesn't even have to be that.

588
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:05,500
You can just say, I listened to a diagnosed annular and they talked about dependent personality disorder.

589
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:09,500
And now I can recognize that maybe in myself or in others.

590
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:10,500
Yeah.

591
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:11,500
And then you just know a little bit more.

592
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:12,500
Exactly.

593
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:13,500
That's okay too.

594
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:15,500
You do what you can until you know better.

595
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:17,500
And then when you know better, you do better.

596
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:18,500
Yeah.

597
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:19,500
Exactly.

598
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:20,500
Just do better.

599
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:21,500
Well, that was good.

600
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:22,500
Thanks for bringing that.

601
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:23,500
I hope you guys enjoyed this one too.

602
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:25,500
All right, all right, all right.

603
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:27,500
We'll see you guys on Thursday with another case.

604
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:29,500
And yeah, I think that's it.

605
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:30,500
All right.

606
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:31,500
Anything else?

607
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:32,500
Nope.

608
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:33,500
Let's get out of here.

609
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:34,500
All right.

610
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:35,500
Love you.

611
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:36,500
Bye.

612
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:40,500
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613
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