Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I'm Kenna.
I'm Koel.
Dude!
Oh my god.
This whole week has just been madness.
Yeah, it has.
With these cases.
It really has.
And if you are a patron member, we definitely want to say thank you so much for supporting
us monetarily, but also you guys get two insanely long, insanely awesome episodes in the same
day.
Dommar and Bundy!
Well, I guess maybe this one will come out a little bit afterward.
I would say maybe like 12 to 20 hours after the Patreon episode.
But yeah, so you guys are going to get those both on the same day.
This is going to be part two of Ted Bundeth.
Bundeth.
Yeah.
We just want to also mention our regular listeners.
You guys are so awesome.
I know that you guys have been waiting for part two as well, so we're really excited
to bring it to you.
We love doing part twos.
Yeah.
Yeah, Elliot Rodger was a trip.
Now we get Bundeth part two.
Yeah, Bundeth and we've done some of the past as well.
So definitely listen to those and give us your feedback if you guys like part two, like
two parters, or if you want like one super long episode, we'll play around with some
videos.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, you can check us out at Diagnosing a Killer dot com.
There you will have links to merch and resources and events, including the True Crime and Paranormal
Festival podcast festival here in Austin in August, late August, which will be our two-year
anniversary weekend.
It will be.
And I took Friday off work already, so I got an approved.
I'm not going to have to work on Friday.
Yeah.
So that's super, super exciting.
Catch us on social medias at Diagnosing a Killer.
Other than Twitter, it is at Killer Diagnosis.
We have an Instagram.
We have a Patreon.
We have a, what else do we have?
We have Twitter.
Do you say Twitter already?
Sorry, Twitter.
We've got a zone there for us.
We don't have a Facebook.
We don't have a Facebook, but Facebook's like too public.
I feel like a lot of people can access because like you can't make an account.
You have to make like a group like page and then like people can post on it and stuff.
So I'm like, I'd rather just control everything.
So like that's not totally.
Totally.
No, but thank you guys again, like seriously for all your support.
We have been getting a lot of really great reviews and feedback and all that good stuff.
Heck yeah.
And let's get into this fucking part two.
It's been a fucking minute.
Oh, I want to hear this content warning.
Oh God.
Content warning.
This episode contains depictions of brutal sexual assault, sometimes including minors,
graphic necrophilia and suicide.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.
Remember your mental health is very important to us and we love you.
We love you.
Bye.
So when we last left off, we were talking about the fact that Bundy had committed one
of his many murders and had returned to the crime scene with things taped off and people
kind of in the area and was not able to be seen somehow.
Yeah.
And then he took like, what did he take like keys or something?
He took an earring and one of her shoes.
And one of her shoes.
Both of her earrings and one of her shoes.
So last thing I said was that homicide detective Robert Keppel will hear his name a lot in
this next episode or this episode.
He stated about this quote, it was a feat so brazen that it astonishes police even today.
And quote, blech.
So again, that was talking about Ted's seventh victim, Georgian Hawkins, who he would later
admit to visiting her deceased body on three occasions.
After Georgian's disappearance, eyewitnesses would come forward and report seeing a man
in an alley behind a nearby dorm on the night of her disappearance.
This man was on crutches wearing a leg cast and was struggling to carry a briefcase.
I just don't understand.
Like, okay, because we talked about that last episode too where it's like, he always
seems to be like, oh, oh, oh, like, yeah, bumbling around.
But it's like, why would you choose to even carry the briefcase when you know you can't
carry it?
You know, it's not even that.
It's like, who struggles to carry a briefcase?
Like what's in there?
Crutches?
Oh, I guess, his hands are busy.
It's not the weight.
It's the, it's gonna get one of those like scooters.
Yeah, exactly.
Like a little scooter.
That's what I was thinking.
That's his thing.
Pretend to be, you know, disabled for the moment or temporarily disabled.
But what's ironic about it or weird about it is the fact that you would think that you
would want to be so inconspicuous that you wouldn't put it on a big display like that.
Yeah, you wouldn't want to draw attention.
That's how brazen he actually is.
Yeah.
The fact that he is drawing attention to himself in order to not draw attention to himself.
He's like, I'm just going to be extra casual and then no one will even just like that.
Like extra mega soups cash.
Yeah, for real.
So one woman, another eyewitness would actually add that the man asked her for help carrying
the case to his car, which was a life brown Volkswagen Beetle.
During this time, Ted was still working in Olympia at the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory
Commission.
Now as the assistant director.
Hmm.
So he's like in crime prevention, actively committing crimes.
She's like, God, we're gonna get these probes out here.
He's Dexter.
He would actually go on to write a pamphlet for women on rape prevention.
Oh my God.
That is horrible.
He's the worst.
Oh my gosh.
He's the worst.
I know.
Ted would later get a job at the Department of Emergency Services, a state government
agency involved in the search for missing women.
Like, okay.
It was here at this Department of Emergency Services that Ted would meet and begin dating
a woman by the name of Carol Ann Boone, a twice-divorced mother of two who would remain
in his life for a while after this.
So let's remember that name, Carol Boone.
Yeah.
It's not Sarah Boone's mom, is it?
I don't, I don't know.
Suitcase lady.
Oh.
Stand her.
You're right.
It's not.
She's such an idiot.
She's so callous.
Yeah, that's the one that she put her boyfriend in a suitcase because she thought it was like
a punishment or something.
She's like, oh, you got you.
Yeah, we talked about that.
And then, like, now she's currently petitioning with the judge to not take him.
Not to get, like, two sidebar.
But she's petitioning with the judge right now because she's like, I demand, you know,
being able to talk to my attorney whenever I want.
And I've called his office multiple times and, like, he's working on the case for you.
He's busy.
Yeah, seriously.
But she just, oh gosh.
And then she essentially pen pals the judge like they're friends.
And it's just, she's just arrogant.
Aren't they all?
Very much just like her.
So again, at this time, working at this new job, Ted would meet Carol Boone and begin
dating her.
Around this time as well, many reports of missing women and the brutal attack on Karen
Sparks were appearing in the newspapers.
When I stated in part one that she did not speak out about the assault until nearly 50
years later, remember that?
I told you that.
She said that.
I actually think her identity was still hidden.
So she had spoken about the assault previously but then came out with her identity recently.
Okay.
Yes, exactly.
It's not that she waited all this time to talk about it at all.
So I was mistaken.
So due to these new stories around the area, many women gave up hitchhiking and were becoming
even more aware of their surroundings as well.
Yeah, the 70s ruined hitchhiking.
They really did talk about that in Dahmer too.
Pressure began to mount on law enforcement but with little to no evidence, they didn't
really even know where to start.
Police would not provide even the little bit of information they did have about this suspect
in the media in fear that he would flee and never be located.
Further similarities about the victims began to surface, giving potential victims a warning.
So on July 14th, just a reminder to everyone that's not listening back to back, this is
1974, two women were abducted from a crowded beach at Lake Sammamish State Park in, I think
it's Issaquah?
Issaquah?
Yeah, it's like, ISSAQUAH.
Issaquah?
I think it's Issaquah.
What was the... Smash, mash, mash, what was it?
Uh, Sammamish.
Sma-mash.
I don't know.
Sma-mash.
Sammamish.
Okay, whatever.
Sorry if he's from Sammamish.
Yeah.
Iqwah.
Janice Ott was a 23 year old juvenile court worker who lived in Issaquah.
At the time of her disappearance, her husband Jim was studying in California.
Janice and her husband had reportedly been going through a separation at this time, so
on July 14th, 1974, she decided to take a day trip to the beach by herself to relax.
After leaving a note for her roommate that she would return around 4.30, Janice took
off on her yellow bicycle and headed for Lake Sma-mash.
Sam.
Sma-mash.
Sam-mash.
It's like Sammamish, I think.
It's Sammamish.
Sammamish.
Because it's like S-a-m-m-a-m-i-s-h.
Sammamish.
Right?
Sammamish.
Sammamish makes sense.
Sammamish.
We'll just call it that.
Alright.
Email us.
About 20 minutes after she got settled, Ted spotted Janice and approached her.
Moments before this, he had actually attempted to lure another woman named Janice Graham
away from the park.
After introducing himself to first Janice and claiming that his arm was injured, he asked
her if she could help him unload a sailboat.
Thinking that the boat was just around the corner in the parking lot, she followed him,
and then decided to distance herself when she was asked by Ted to get into his Volkswagen
Beetle.
At this point, Ted said, quote, that's okay, and admitted that he should have been a little
bit more specific about where the boat was located.
He was trying to tell him, hey, can you come help me load a sailboat till he can get in
the parking lot?
And then he was like, oh, it's at my parents' house.
Come with me and help me.
And she was like, pass.
Yikes, hard pass.
So again, this is a different Janice.
The Janice he is spotted now is the one with her husband, and she is taking the day trip
alone.
Janice ought.
Ted turned his attention to her, the woman laying on the towel, alone.
And after approaching her, Ted gave her the same run around and explained that his arm
was injured from playing racquetball.
I'm just such a racquetball enthusiast.
However, this time he modified his story a bit and did share originally that his boat
was located at his parents' house in Issaacah.
Although Janice was friendly towards Ted, she was making it pretty obvious that she
didn't want to leave the beach.
She had just gotten there.
According to onlookers, Ted was very insistent, and judging by witness accounts, a snippet
of the conversation was actually able to be put together.
Hmm.
Janice, sit down and we can talk about it.
Ted, it's up at my parents' house in Issaacah.
Janice, oh really?
I live in Issaacah.
Well, okay, I don't know how to sail though.
Ted responds, it'll be easy for me to teach you.
Janice, is there room for my bicycle in the car?
Ted, yes, it'll fit in the trunk.
End of conversation.
Hmm.
At this point, Janice had gotten up and began to redress herself.
She then stated, quote, okay, I'll go under one condition, I get a ride in the sailboat.
End quote.
Ted responded, quote, of course, my car is over there in the parking lot.
End quote.
To which Janice replied, quote, I guess I'll get to meet your parents then.
Oh, very fast.
Yeah.
This would be the last time that anybody saw Janice alive, unfortunately.
Wow.
It's like so scary.
Like people are like over her this conversation just thinking it was like casual.
This thing was, yeah.
Yeah.
So, next two hunters would discover her skeletal remains scattered across a grassy patch of
land in a wooded area near Issaacow.
Denise Marie Nozlund was a 19-year-old student who was studying software development during
night school.
During the day, she worked part-time as an office worker.
And at the time of her death, Denise was dating a man by the name of Ken Little, who had
arrived with her around 1 p.m. along with another couple at Lake Sammamish on the day
of her disappearance, July 14th.
The couple that they were with was Bob Sargent and Nancy Batma.
Or Batima.
I don't know how to pronounce words, I'm sorry.
Shortly after 4 p.m., Ken and Bob fell asleep after having a big lunch, and Denise shared
with Nancy that she was not feeling so great and she was going to use the restroom.
So it was at this point that Denise left and walked towards the restrooms but was never
seen alive again.
So you just like, was like, oh, I'll be right back going to the bathroom.
That is terrifying.
I know, it's so scary.
Did you imagine like that whole time you're sitting there and you're like, gosh, she's
been in the bathroom for a while.
She could go check on her.
If somebody would go check on her and she's just not in there.
Yeah, that's so scary.
So throughout eyewitness testimonies and stuff, and of course Ted's confessions later on,
detectives were able to determine that at some point Denise was approached by Ted, who
had returned to the same lake to look for another victim after taking Janice away.
Eight weeks later, her skeletal remains were discovered alongside Janice's.
That's Denise.
The afternoon war on July 14th and Denise's boyfriend and friends hung around to wait
for her to return.
While all other cars were leaving the parking lot and Denise's remained, her boyfriend
Ken began to worry and decided to report her missing to a park ranger.
Like, can you imagine that?
Like everyone else is leaving and her car's still there.
Just one by one, one by one.
Despite the women going missing from college campuses over the last few months, the disappearances
from the lake came as a shock to everyone.
In this case, an unidentified man calling himself Ted had seemingly abducted two women
from broad daylight from the same place in the same day.
Okay.
Why are you gonna call yourself Ted?
It's like, wait.
For real?
Come on.
It could be anybody.
And he's just like, no, I'm Ted.
No, I'm sorry.
It's like so silly.
Like, it is.
Like, I mean, again, it's how bold he is.
Yeah, exactly.
Not only in the same day did these two women disappear, but within three and a half hours
of each other.
Oh my God.
It's like he literally just kidnapped one, did whatever, kidnapped, like came back,
kidnapped another one.
Oh, yeah.
And this particular day was actually extremely busy with nearly 40,000 guests waiting to
soak up the sunshine.
I mean, it's the middle of summer.
Yeah.
This gave way for many eyewitnesses.
So four female witnesses described an attractive young man wearing a white tennis outfit with
his left arm and a sling, speaking with a slight accent, perhaps Canadian or British.
You couldn't get it right either way.
Hey, what's this all about, eh?
Yeah.
Three of these women would refuse when he asked them for help.
And the fourth was Janice Graham, the one that would flee after getting to the car.
Of course, the witnesses that overheard the beach conversation between Janice and Ted
would come forward.
And Ted would later tell Stephen Macau and William Hameyer that Janice was still alive
when he returned with Denise and that he forced one to watch as he murdered the other.
But he would later deny this on the eve of his execution.
So he just said it for like shock factor, apparently.
Just a reminder to everyone, Stephen Macau is a biographer and I think he's a doctor
and William Hameyer, I don't know exactly what he is, but he'll come back in the story
later.
But these are people that he interviewed after he was in prison.
Yeah.
Post-conviction.
Exactly.
So following these attacks, police were able to get a pretty decent composite sketch
of the suspect and his car and they would post flyers throughout the Seattle area.
He looked like Weird Al Yankovic or something.
These sketches were also posted in regional newspapers and broadcast on local TV stations.
Four people close to Ted, including Ann Rule, his old co-worker and also the writer.
And Elizabeth Colfer, his ex-girlfriend, recognized that the photo kind of looked a lot like him
and decided to report it to police.
And also he called himself Ted.
This guy says his name's Ted.
Do you know what he named Ted?
That's like this car.
That kind of looks like Ted.
So getting over 200 tips per day, police would actually rule Ted out as a suspect as they
thought it was highly unlikely that a clean cut law student with no adult criminal record
could possibly be the perpetrator.
Oh Jesus.
And of course the perpetrator probably wouldn't use his real name.
Yeah, exactly.
Why would he do that?
That's so lame.
So lame.
You know, Ted's a very common name.
The Adol.
The Adol Bundeth.
Yeah, it's just silly because like you hear those things in hindsight and you're like,
yeah, maybe if you like took those calls seriously, like he wouldn't have murdered like 20 more
people.
Right.
If you just looked in his basement.
Seriously.
This would all be over.
Dumber.
If you just looked behind that bedroom door.
Seriously.
Six months after the remains of Denise and Janice were found, forestry students from the Green
River Community College discovered the skulls and jaw bones of four of Ted's previous victims.
Unfortunately, the remains of Donna Manson were never recovered, even though she had
said that he dumped her body there as well.
In August 1974, Ted received a second acceptance from the University of Utah Law School and
would move to Salt Lake City, leaving Liz in Seattle.
Although he called Liz often, Ted would admit to dating quote, at least a dozen other women
as well during this time.
So not only is he like the worst person alive, but he's also a cheater and a dog.
So this is Liz, like his ex-ex-girlfriend.
He tried to get back, he did get back with that other ex just to see if he could marry
her and then he left her.
And then of course he's dating Carol at this time too.
Remember Carol Boone?
Don't forget about her.
Don't forget about Carol Boone.
Yeah.
As he began his first year of law school for the second time, he was devastated to find
out that the students at this university quote, had something, some intellectual capacity
that he did not.
Oh, so he felt inadequate.
He did.
For like the first time.
He found himself completely lost in the classes there stating that it was quote, a great disappointment
to me.
End quote.
Homicides began happening once again in the vicinity of Ted.
God.
That's not funny.
It's not funny, but just the fact that he's like, oh, like clearly this isn't going to
work out.
I might as well just go hurt more people.
Exactly.
Including two that would remain undiscovered until Ted confessed to them shortly before
his execution.
Sorry, I put my hand like in front of my mouth and it muffled me.
On September 2nd, 1974, Ted would sexually assault and strangle a woman after picking
her up hitchhiking in Idaho.
Then either dispose of her remains immediately in a nearby river or return to the next day
to take photos of the corpse.
He said both in the past.
That he didn't know which one he couldn't remember specifically.
I think it was more of like he said one thing and then he like changed his statement about
it.
Like I don't know if he's like, go to remember.
Like he just kind of like, you're in shock factor.
Yeah.
The identity of this woman would actually never be found out.
On October 2nd, Ted would abduct 16 year old Nancy Wilcox in Holiday, Utah, a suburb
of Salt Lake City.
She would vanish after leaving her home the same day and her parents would quickly think
that she had run away and would report this to police.
Nancy being the victim of an abduction, especially one that was connected to the recent disappearances,
was not on anybody's radar.
And due to this, the Sheriff's juvenile division did not release a public statement until December.
So how long?
Two months.
What?
They were like, oh, well, the people that have been disappearing are college students.
She's 16 and her parents report her run away.
So they were like, obviously she's run away.
Oh my God, that's awful.
Wasn't that Tony's mom I think it was, right?
Yeah.
Anthony's mom I think it was and the Dahmer story.
They waited four fucking weeks.
Yeah.
Four weeks.
It's disgusting.
Because they were like, oh, you know, he was in a homosexual relationship.
Yeah, exactly.
Like that's awful.
Even when they did release a statement about Nancy's disappearance, they were sure to stress
the fact that Nancy may have still been a runaway.
They're like, just to let everyone know she's probably a runaway.
We're going to just cover our asses and post about it.
Anyways, just to be sure, because it's what you guys want, but we're telling you right
now she's a runaway.
Wow.
It wasn't until other young girls started disappearing that Nancy was connected to this
case at all.
Unfortunately, Nancy's remains were never found and her case remains open today.
Still?
Still.
Ted did, however, confess to her murder shortly before his death.
There's just no evidence to fully close the case.
Because there's no body.
On October 18th, Melissa Ann Smith, the 17 year old daughter of the police chief of Middale,
disappeared after leaving a pizza parlor.
God, the ball's on this fucker.
Her nude body would be found in a nearby mountainous area just nine days after her disappearance.
Post mortem examinations would later determine that she may have been kept alive for nearly
seven days before her death.
So this is like completely different than what he's been doing.
Yeah, because it's usually very quick.
Yes.
On October 31st, Laura Ann Aime, also 17, disappeared 25 miles south of where Melissa
did.
Laura was last seen leaving a cafe just after midnight.
There are a lot of conflicting accounts of what happened after Laura was last seen.
But what we do know is that Ted met up with her at some point and lured her into his vehicle.
Like on a date or something, maybe?
I want to say she needed like a ride home or something and maybe it offered.
But I might be mixing it up with a different person.
But either way, you know, he's very casual and he's very convincing.
He's like, oh my God, I love your skirt.
Where did you get it?
Yeah.
He's like Regina George.
Yeah, he is.
He's Regina George.
So, unfortunately, Laura's nude body would be found by hikers nine miles northeast on
Thanksgiving Day.
It's so awful.
Both Melissa and Laura had been sodomized, raped, and strangled with nylon stockings.
Years later, Ted would describe his post-mortem rituals with both girls, including hair shampooing
and application of makeup.
Interesting, like a mortician or something.
Yeah.
And the late afternoon of the- and we'll get into more of that later.
In the late afternoon of November 8th, 1974, Ted would approach 18-year-old Carol Derange
at Fashion Place Mall in Murray.
Carol was a telephone operator when she was introduced to Ted.
He would identify himself as Officer Roseland, however, and explained that he was a member
of the Murray Police Department.
He told her that somebody had attempted to break into her car because she's at the mall.
Right?
So he's like, oh-
He's like, oh-
I came to find you.
Ma'am, I ran the registration on your vehicle and I know exactly what you look like.
I just happened to spot you out of this fucking huge crowd of people.
Out of a mall.
And somebody's trying to break into your car.
You must come with me, ma'am.
Yes.
So he asked her to accompany him to the station to file a formal complaint, thinking that he
was a genuine officer.
Carol complied and got into Ted's vehicle with him.
When Carol pointed out to Ted that he was driving down a wrong road and not headed towards
the police station, he pulled the car onto the shoulder and attempted to handcuff her.
Oh my God, it's fucking scary.
I don't know.
So when Carol began to fight Ted, and during the struggle, Ted accidentally attached both
handcuffs to the same wrist on Carol.
Oh, okay.
So she's free, technically.
Following this, Carol was able to escape the vehicle and run away.
Bad bitch.
So she would survive.
Later that evening, November 8th, 1974, 17-year-old Viewmont High School student Deborah Jean
Kent disappeared after leaving a theater production at school to pick up her brother.
This was 20 miles north of Murray.
So we traveled 20 miles.
They drove all the way up there.
The same night.
The school's drama teacher and a student would later tell police that, quote, a stranger
had asked each of them to come out to the parking lot to identify a car.
Another student would say that she saw the same man pacing in the back of the auditorium.
Outside the auditorium, investigators would find a key that unlocked the handcuffs removed
from Carol's wrist.
So now they know that they're like connected.
That's right.
I know.
According to the witnesses, there was a loud screaming coming from the parking lot of the
school around the time that Deborah was last seen, and one person reportedly saw a light-colored
Volkswagen bug speed away from the school.
Unfortunately, Deborah would become yet another victim of Ted's, and her remains would not
be identified until 2015 when a patella was assumed to be hers, which is a kneecap for
those that don't know, and was able to be positively identified as such.
So that's all that they found of her is her kneecap.
The same month Deborah would be murdered, November, Liz, his ex-girlfriend, would call
King County Police a second time after reading that young women were now disappearing in
Salt Lake City where Ted moved.
Oh, God.
She's like, hey, by the way.
Poor woman.
She's like, no, I'm telling you, like, it's him.
It's him.
So why don't you go?
Just go get him.
So Liz, of course, had known that Ted was living in the area, and she did not think it
was a coincidence that the crimes moved with him.
God.
And he looks like the composite sketch, and his name is fucking Ted.
And he drives the same car.
I'm going to butcher this last name again, but Detective Randy Herdschimer of the Major
Crimes Unit interviewed Liz around this time.
At this point, Ted was considered high on the suspect list for the disappearances.
However, witnesses in the Lake Shemamish abductions were unable to identify him via a photo lineup,
so police didn't really have any solid evidence to bring him in.
That's what they said.
Nobody was able to positively ID him.
From the Lake Disappearances.
Yeah.
So she's trying to call in both towns, saying this was him and this was him, but they can't
compare the two, so they really don't have anything to go on.
I know, it sucks.
In December, Liz would contact authorities once more and repeated her suspicions of Ted.
Police would then officially add Ted to the suspect list in Salt Lake City, but at that
time, there was no credible evidence to arrest him for the Utah crimes either.
So he's still out and about.
Yeah.
I mean, it just sucks.
It's like they're trying to work within the confines of the law.
But she's like, more people...
I have evidence in my head.
But more people essentially have to die for this man to be caught, which is awful.
At this point, Liz and Ted were actually still seeing each other occasionally, because again,
remember he's dating all these women at once?
She comes out with a legal pad and she's like, uh, yeah.
Exactly.
What did you do last Thursday at 7?
But of course they weren't living in the same place, they didn't see each other all the
time.
In January of 1975, Ted would return to Seattle after his final exams and would spend an entire
week with Liz.
While she still did have her suspicions, of course she did not tell Ted that she had
phoned police about him several times.
I just like, how do you break it off?
How do you have him spend the week at your house?
Well, you're probably scared, right?
You're thinking if I break up with him, he's gonna do something to me.
Or you're thinking like, maybe I'm just like overreacting, maybe that's not him, maybe
it's just coincidence.
Yeah, I love him.
After this visit, Ted would make plans to visit Liz again later that year in August.
The same month in January of 1975, Ted would find yet another victim.
23-year-old Karen Campbell was heading to her hotel room in Aspen, Colorado when she
disappeared.
She had been walking down a well-lit hallway between the elevator and her room at the Wildwood
Inn, making it clear that Ted was becoming very good at charming women and convincing
them to leave their safe places.
Like in the hallway.
Karen was actually on vacation with her fiance at the time of her abduction.
No!
And she was abducted literally like feet from their hotel room door.
That is heartbreaking.
I have like full body heaves, like that's so scary.
Ted would abduct Karen and ultimately murder her via blows to the head and deep wounds
from a sharp weapon.
That's just, you're so right, that's incredible that he can literally like, charismaticly gain
someone's trust within seconds, minutes, maybe.
Karen's nude body would be found nearly a month later next to a dirt road just outside
the resort.
What?
Yeah, yeah.
Nearly a month later, just outside the resort.
Say an oxymoron.
A few months later, on March 15th, 26-year-old Julia Cunningham disappeared while walking
from her apartment to a dinner date with a friend.
Ted would later admit to authorities that he approached Julia while on crutches, asking
her to help him carry his ski boots to his car.
God, this guy.
Yeah.
Julia was actually an employee at the ski shop, so it wasn't unusual for members to
ask for help.
Heard, yeah.
And I'm sure he fucking knew that.
Once in his car, Ted clubbed and handcuffed Julia before sexually assaulting her and
unfortunately strangling her to death.
This happened about 90 miles west of Vale, Colorado, just to put it in perspective, because
he was an aspen as well with the other one.
Oh, I see.
With Karen, yeah.
He also admitted that weeks after this murder, he would take it upon himself to make the nearly
six-hour drive from Salt Lake City to visit her deceased body.
Like what?
I mean, it's got to be giving him a complex that he's been able to get away with all of
these murders, and it's seemingly easy to get these women to trust him with the occasional
screw up.
Well, the fact that he keeps revisiting their bodies or the dump sites and all that other
stuff that, yeah, clearly he's like, I want to relive being able to get away with it.
Exactly.
And he talks about that later too.
Go check them out whenever I want, because I know nobody's going to find them.
Exactly.
And I know nobody's going to link them to me.
God, so gross.
What a fucking narcissist.
Hell yeah.
25-year-old Denise Lynn Oliverson disappeared near the Utah, Colorado border in Grand Junction
on April 6, 1975.
She was abducted while riding her bike to her parents' house.
Her bike and sandals were later found near a railroad bridge, and that's essentially
all we really know about that.
On April 15, 1975, 18-year-old Melanie Cooley disappeared on her way home from high school.
Her body would later be found bludgeoned to death with a rock.
Do you think that he switched up the ages because it changes the emo just a little bit?
I think so.
Yeah.
So Ted had actually been suspected of her murder, but he would never confess, and her case
is also still open today.
On May 6, Ted would kidnap 12-year-old Lynette Don Culver in Pocatello, Idaho, 160 miles
north of Salt Lake City.
He drove all the way out there.
He would bring this girl into his hotel room where he would ultimately drown her in the
tub and dispose of her body in a river north of Pocatello.
12.
I know it's hard.
12.
He would not specify which river this was, but investigators believe it may have been
the Snake River, but she was never found.
In mid-May, three of Ted's Washington state DES coworkers visited him in Salt Lake City
and would stay a week with him in his apartment.
Three?
Three of his coworkers?
Yeah.
Which is- I'm putting that in there mostly because there's no way he has no evidence
in his apartment.
I see.
And three different people stayed with him for a week.
A week.
And he was still able to get away with this shit.
Yeah.
Like, it's just crazy.
He would then spend a week with Liz in early June, and the two would even discuss plans
to get married the following Christmas.
Oh my God, this guy.
Liz keeping her secret about her police visits the entire time.
She was like, yeah, I'm gonna marry you.
Liz was not the only one keeping secrets, however, as Ted did not disclose to her that
he was dating three other women at the same time as well.
Jesus.
It's like H.H. Holmes, right?
It was like he was traveling across, you know, different state lines and just marrying women.
Yeah.
His was all greed.
Well, I mean, we're not gonna put it past him to keep three women a secret when he's
murdering all these other women.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
He's not worried about lying about dating.
I just think it's interesting that with a lot of serial killers, like, you know, we
talk about like BTK or any other, I don't know, BTK is a good example, that he, Dennis
Rader would marry and settle into a family life, but it's, again, it's just so brazen
of Ted to have multiple relationships and also be a serial killer because any one of
these chicks could just rat on you.
Yeah.
Like one little tiny thing.
Exactly.
And, you know, most serial killers that we've done before have covered in the past, again,
they settle down with one family because that's, that's, that's what makes me normal.
That's your beard.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's your beard.
Exactly.
And Ted doesn't need a beard.
He doesn't want a beard.
He's too charismatic.
He's too narcissistic.
He's just like, he's smarter than everyone.
And unfortunately, he hasn't been up until now.
He thinks he looks like the stereotypical ladies man.
Yeah.
Which he's not really that good.
I mean, he's like a bad looking, but like he has a unibrow.
I know, but he had a unibrow.
Every dude in the 70s had a unibrow.
That's Tommy Lee Jones.
That's true.
Eyes of Laura Mars.
That's very true.
He had a righteous unibrow.
Right.
He was still hot though.
Okay, back to the story.
On June 28th, 15 year old Susan Curtis was abducted by Ted in Prov, 45 miles south of
Salt Lake City.
She would be the last murder that Ted would confess to before his execution, but unfortunately,
her remains would also never be located.
And her case is still regarded as a missing person's case as of today.
I also think that's a testament to how narcissistic he is as well, that he doesn't remember.
Yeah.
Like he doesn't, he's just like, oh no, I just don't, I don't really remember where
she is.
It's already-
Either he's withholding it on purpose or he legitimately doesn't give a shit about
these things for them.
Yeah, of course not.
Of course not.
There's plenty of killers that we have covered that know every single detail about everything
they've done to somebody.
And that's the thing, like you see later on that like he does know every single detail
about the ones that he's willing to confess to.
But some of them he's like, I don't know.
I don't know, figure it out.
So like, I think he might be right, like he's withholding information.
In early August of 1975, Ted would become baptized at the church of Jesus of Latter-day
Saints.
Although he was not an active participant in the services and was known to ignore most
church restrictions.
I had to put that in there.
Jesus.
Like, you're gonna get just, just get baptized?
Sure, fuck you.
Yeah, because now you can say that.
I've been baptized.
Yeah, literally.
I'm a good Christian.
It's so annoying.
Meanwhile, in Washington state, investigators were scratching their heads trying to figure
out who this mystery man was that was continually-
His name is Ted.
Ducting and murdering women.
Yeah.
In fact, there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence that they decided to compile a
database.
Oh.
They used the King County's payroll computer, known as a quote, huge, primitive machine,
in order to maintain everything needed.
After inputting all of the data they had compiled, including classmates and acquaintances of each
victim, Volkswagen owners named Ted, known sex offenders, and so on, they queried the
computer for any coincidences.
Out of thousands of names, 26 turned up on four lists.
One of these names was Theodore Robert Bundy.
So he's now one of 26 suspects, like prime suspects in this case.
Just based off of that.
On top of this, detectives had also manually compiled a list of their 100 best suspects,
excuse me, and Ted was on this list as well.
So they were like cross-referencing?
Yeah.
Like essentially evidence that they might already have and also this, this, uh, the
leads, like the calls.
Yeah.
According to investigators, Ted was quote, literally at the top of the pile, end quote,
of suspects when they got the word that he had been arrested in Utah.
For what?
Dun dun dun.
On August 16th, 1975, Ted Bundy was arrested by Utah Highway Patrol officer Bob Hayward
in Granger, Utah.
Hayward had observed Ted cruising in a residential area in a light-colored Volkswagen Beetle
during the early morning hours.
And when he pulled out to follow him, Ted led the area attempting to avoid being pulled
over.
Ted would eventually stop after the officer flashed his lights.
Hayward would immediately notice the front passenger seat had been removed and placed
on their rear seats.
And this was worrisome enough to conduct a search of the vehicle.
Since the officer began the search, he found a ski mask, a second mask made from pantyhose,
a crowbar, handcuffs, trash bags, a coil of rope, an ice pick, and other items he immediately
recognized as being burglary tools.
It's a kill kit.
It's 130% a kill kit.
Yeah, for sure.
When questioned about the items, Ted stated that the ski mask was of course for skiing.
And he had found the handcuffs in a dumpster, and the rest were just common household items
in his car.
Oh, you mean these common household items in my car?
Not in the house in my car.
None of the household items.
What?
Yeah, their normal car items.
Car hold items.
God, this is stupid.
See he thinks he's like outsparting everyone by saying things like that, and then they're
like, what the, what?
What is that?
Yeah.
Which of course it's for skiing.
Yeah.
Ice picking.
Yeah, picking ice.
Picking ice.
So the items were just far too suspicious for the officer to just let him go.
So he would bring Ted down to the station to get a deeper understanding of what was
actually going on.
What all this shit was in his car?
Yeah, he's like, what the fuck?
Upon hearing the news, Detective Jerry Thompson remembered a similar suspect and car description
from the November 1974 kidnapping of Carol DeRanche, the survivor.
He had also remembered Ted Bundy's name from one phone call that Liz made a month after
that kidnapping.
Because of these suspicions, police were able to get a warrant to search Ted's apartment,
maybe of course other evidence like, you know, the household items in his car.
In doing so, in the apartment, they located a quote guide to Colorado ski resorts page
with a check mark by the Wildwood Inn.
What does that mean?
That's the hotel that the woman was abducted from her fiance.
But he like checked it, like, that was one of my locations.
I don't know if he checked it, like that's my plan or like already been there.
Already been there, done that?
Already done that, exactly.
They also found a brochure that advertised the play in Bountiful where Deborah Kent disappeared
from the auditorium.
That's creepy.
Although all of these things were extremely suspicious, they were still mostly circumstantial
and police did not have any substantial evidence to detain Ted.
Because of this, they were forced to release him later that day.
I know.
But that's all they got in the apartment?
Ted would later admit that during the search of his apartment, detectives had clearly overlooked
a hidden collection of Polaroid photographs of each one of his victims.
Some fucking search he did there.
Oh God.
Yeah, way to be thorough.
Those are worse than the Donner House is.
Because there's like photos of all of the missing women in my apartment.
It's just ridiculous.
So Ted was so freaked out about this run-in with the law that he immediately burned all
of the photos when he came back to his apartment.
Oh damn, okay.
So the only reason they know that exists is because he said something about it.
Although they did not have enough evidence to arrest him, Salt Lake City Police did put
Ted on a 24-hour surveillance watch following this.
Detective Thompson also flew to Seattle with two other detectives to interview Liz further
on her relationship with Ted.
She informed them that in the years prior to Ted's move to Utah, she had discovered
objects that she, quote, couldn't understand in her house and in Ted's apartment.
Like what?
Among these items, surgical gloves, a sack full of women's clothing, crutches, and a
meat cleaver that was never used for cooking.
It's a prized meat cleaver.
Yeah, it's just in my car.
I have gloves.
Surgical gloves?
I have.
Okay, well I have surgical gloves too for my piercings, but that's not that suspicious.
A sack full of women's clothing that aren't hers.
I used them to dye my hair.
Yeah.
A sack of women's clothing is weird.
A meat cleaver that's never used.
Although I dated a guy who had high heels in his closet.
Maybe it wasn't, hopefully it wasn't Ted.
Was it Ted?
It's any, any.
Liz would also inform detectives that Ted was continuously in debt and that she had
suspected that he had stolen almost everything of value that he possessed.
She explained that one time he came home with a new TV and a new stereo and she decided
to confront him about where he got them from.
Yeah.
And his response to her was, quote, if you tell anyone, I'll break your fucking neck.
Yeah.
You got to run, girl.
No, for real.
You got to run.
That's so scary.
But like that explains like probably why she wanted it.
Like she was like, I can't break up with this fucking guy.
Yeah.
You will kill me.
That's so scary.
She also relayed that Ted would become, quote, very upset whenever she considered cutting
her hair off, which was worn long, dark and in a middle part.
Long, dark and in a middle part?
That's like all of his victims.
So she was like, she could never cut her hair.
Because he wanted her to look like his victims.
He would get upset.
That's so creepy.
And obviously that's in hindsight.
So was he doing it for her?
Like he's doing it for her or that's why he's attracted to her?
I think that's why he's attracted to her.
Could you imagine that?
Could you imagine being in a relationship like that or the, the significant others like
you better never cut your hair.
Imagine finding out the similarity of all of his victims seeing, oh my god, all of those
girls look like me.
Like when is he going to kill me?
So fucking creepy.
Do you think that he didn't kill her because she had kids?
Because I feel like none of his other victims had children.
Oh.
No, I thought at least one did.
Or maybe she did.
I'm sorry.
The, the, the, um, not Denise on the beach, but uh, was it Denise on the beach?
With the auto.
Her last name was auto.
Jane?
Jane Ottz?
Yeah.
The, didn't she have kids?
I don't think so.
She was married and her husband were just going through separation.
I don't think she had a kid though.
I'm going to sound silly if she did, but.
Yeah.
Either way, that was just, I mean he has so many victims it's kind of hard to, right,
you know, oh, obviously I have them all written down.
That is interesting.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But again, I do feel like it's a beard situation.
Oh, for sure.
I wonder if she was financially, uh, well off.
I'm sure she was.
And that's why he was, yeah.
And so again, and during this interview as well, Liz would continue by telling detectives
that she would sometimes be woken up in the middle of the night by Ted to find him under
their sheets with a flashlight.
What?
Seemingly examining like her body.
Yeah.
Like she'd be asleep and be like, what the hell?
Like what the fuck is that light?
What the fuck is that light?
It's just rummaging around underneath the sheets.
Yeah.
That's fucking creepy.
She said he also kept a lug wrench in the trunk of her car, another Volkswagen Beetle,
which he would often borrow from her.
Do you think he, oh, do you think he used her car?
I don't, I think he might have, he said his reasoning for borrowing her car was quote
for protection.
I think her car was a similar color to his, which is why all the eyewitness testimonies
are like off the color.
It varies.
Because his was yellow.
I think the same thing with Berkowitz because I think Berkowitz had like a dark brown.
And then I think the brothers, remember the brothers who suspected of also participating
in this, they had a similar model that was tan.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's, yeah, you're right.
I do remember you talking about that.
The car, John Carver, I think it was.
After the interview concluded, the detectives confirmed that Ted had not been with Liz on
any of the nights of any of the disappearances in the Pacific Northwest, nor on the day that
the women were abducted from the lake.
So no alibi.
No alibi for him and no blame for her.
Right.
You know, any kind of help.
Did they suspect it because of the, because of the Volkswagen that she had?
Yeah, I don't know if they suspected her at all, but they were able to determine like,
okay, she really like has nothing to do with it.
She was just trying to help.
Yeah.
Sometime after this interview, Liz was interviewed yet again by Seattle homicide detective, Kathy
McChesney.
And during this interview, she would find out about the existence of Diane Edwards and
her brief engagement to Ted around Christmas of 1973.
Of course, right.
Cause the police are going to use anything.
They're going to like, he's not even faithful to you.
You might as well just tell us everything.
In September, Ted sold his Volkswagen Beetle to a teenager, but Utah police would quickly
impound it and FBI technicians would dismantle and search it.
That poor kid.
He's like, I just need to fix the car.
No, I just paid 50 bucks for this car.
During this search, they found hairs matching samples obtained from Karen Campbell's body.
I just got heaps because I was thinking about being a teenager and like, you think you're
getting a great deal on this car, but plenty of people have been murdered inside of it.
Yeah, that's really, that's really terrifying.
They would also later identify hair strands, quote, microscopically indistinguishable from
those of Melissa Smith and Carol Derange in the same car.
So it's like, okay, this is clearly one a billion him.
Yeah.
FBI lab specialist Robert Neil concluded that the presence of hair strands in one car matching
three different victims who would never, who have never met each other would be considered,
quote, a coincidence of mind boggling rarity.
I would.
Yeah, they would have to be astronomical.
That is such a brilliant way to put that.
It is.
It's like these women have never met each other.
They wouldn't know each other.
How the fuck would they evolve in the same car?
Yeah.
It's not like, it's not like he was driving, you know, four girls around or whatever.
Yeah.
They don't know each other.
On October 2nd, 1975, detectives put Ted into a lineup for survivors and witnesses to
look through.
Carol Derange immediately identified Ted as, quote, Officer Roseland and witnesses from
Bountiful recognized him as the stranger at the Vymont High School auditorium.
There was not enough evidence present to link him to Deborah Kent, whose body was never
found, but there was way more than enough evidence to charge him with aggravated kidnapping
and attempted criminal assault in the case of Carol Derange.
Shortly after being arrested, he would be freed on a $15,000 bail paid for by his parents.
He hasn't talked to him.
How many fucking years?
I was like, he has parents?
His grandparents.
Sorry.
His grandparents.
This would be the equivalent.
You know, I did the fucking conversion rate.
I'm $793 today.
I feel like that's not a lot.
If you've been convicted, like you're not convicted, but have been arrested in suspicion
of murder, even though one-
They only arrested him on the kidnapping, aggravated kidnapping and criminal assault
on Carol.
I'm so sorry.
Yes.
They just have suspicions of the other stuff.
Well, and they're collecting evidence so they can't really slap him with it yet.
And also they're like, fuck it.
Let's get him behind bars for something instead of waiting until we have all this evidence.
Ted would spend most of his time between indictment and trial in Seattle living in Liz's house.
God, this is why.
I know, she's probably fucking petrified.
Seattle police had insufficient evidence to charge him in the Pacific Northwest murders,
but would continue to keep him under close surveillance.
Do you feel like she would have felt safer knowing that at least he's probably not going
to do anything because they already suspect him of all these crimes?
Yeah, maybe.
But you're still living with him.
Yeah, she would also actually later recall around this time, quote, when Ted and I stepped
out on the porch to go somewhere, so many unmarked police cars started up that it sounded
like the beginning of the ND500.
That's a hilarious quote.
That is a great metaphor.
I love that.
Go Liz.
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In November, the three main men investigating Ted, so that's Jerry Thompson from Utah,
Robert Keppel from Washington, and Michael Fisher from Colorado, all three of them met
in Aspen, Colorado to exchange notes.
Here they would exchange information with each other, as well as 30 detectives and prosecutors
from five different states.
So many.
How do you fit everybody in a room?
Right.
It's like a whole task force.
While most officials left the meeting convinced that Ted was the murderer they've been looking
for this whole time, they also agreed that more hard evidence would absolutely be needed
before he could be charged with any of the murders.
In February of 1976, Ted stood trial for the Carol Derange kidnapping.
His attorney, John O'Connell, advised Ted to waive his right to a jury due to the negative
publicity surrounding the case.
Ted would agree, and after a four-day bench trial and a weekend of deliberation, Judge
Stuart Hanson Jr. would find Ted Bundy guilty of kidnapping and assault.
He would be sentenced to one to 15 years in June of 1976 in the Utah State Prison.
Four months into his sentence, Ted was found hiding in the bushes in the prison yard carrying
a quote, escape kit, which included roadmaps, airline schedules, and a social security card.
This guy loves to have kits.
Seriously.
Due to this attempted escape, Ted would spend several weeks in solitary confinement.
I'm hiding behind a bush.
It's so funny.
With his little escape kit.
He's like alligator eyes.
Yeah.
I think of that George Clooney gif where he's like behind the bushes.
Later that month, Colorado authorities had finally come up with enough evidence to charge
Ted with the murder of Karen Campbell.
After a period of resistance at the new charge, Ted would waive extradition proceedings and
was transferred to Aspen in January of 1977 to face charges.
On June 7th of 1977, Ted was transported 40 miles from the Garfield County Jail in Glenwood
Springs to Pitkin County Courthouse in Aspen for a preliminary hearing.
This time, he had elected to serve as his own attorney because you know he's been to
law school.
He's so smart.
And due to the fact that he was representing himself, the judge allowed his handcuffs and
leg shackles to be removed.
I think he's also wearing a suit, isn't he?
Oh yeah, he's like dressed for the Nines.
Just to the Nines.
No handcuffs, anything.
Conference.
During a recess in the court, Ted would ask if he could visit the courthouse's law library
to do further research on the case.
Okay, that makes sense because he's representing himself.
Why wouldn't he be able to, right?
Ted would utilize this opportunity to shield himself from guards view behind a bookcase
where he would then open the window and jump to the ground for the second story, injuring
his right ankle badly as he landed.
Ted would take off the entire outer layer of his clothes and limp through Aspen.
God, what an idiot.
Like why wouldn't anybody watch him?
They were watching but he like hid behind a bookcase and then like jumped out the window.
He needed to slip out the window.
Although roadblocks were already being set up on its outskirts, Ted would evade them
and hike south onto Aspen Mountain.
So he like got away away.
Oh yeah.
Nearing the summit, he would break into a hunting cabin and steal food, clothing, and
a rifle.
Great.
Does it Ted Kuzmski's cabin?
Who knows.
So again, he has a fucking rifle.
The next day he would leave the cabin and continue south towards the town of Crested Butte,
but would actually become lost in the forest along the way.
Yeah, because he's a lawyer.
He's not a survivalist.
For two days he would wander around aimlessly on the mountain, actually passing by two different
trails that would have led him to his intended destination.
God.
To follow them.
Ugh.
Where's that map he had?
Yeah, right.
I got him a map.
On June 10th, Ted broke into a camping trailer on Maroon Lake about 10 miles south of Aspen
and would steal food and a ski parka.
This is only three days after.
He made like 10 miles.
I can't even, I don't know why I didn't know this about Ted Bundy.
I mean, I feel like I knew that he had escaped through a window of some kind, but I didn't
realize that he was gone for like three days.
No, he was gone for more.
What?
Yeah.
So after stealing this food and parka, instead of continuing south, he would actually walk
back north again towards Aspen, still being able to elude roadblocks and search parties
along the way.
He's like a fucking chameleon.
Yeah, they probably think he's in Puerto Rico or Canada by now.
Yeah.
Three days later, Ted would steal a car on the property of the Aspen golf course and
drive back into Aspen, cold, sleep deprived, and in constant pain from his broken ankle.
It was like broken broken.
I think it was like a really bad sprain.
Yeah.
He didn't break it, but it was like really painful.
Damn.
Ted would be so disoriented in fact that it would cause him to swerve the vehicle extremely
noticeably in the city and catch the attention of local police.
No!
So good.
Oh my gosh.
This is like a, this is like a.
Movie.
Yeah, it's a movie.
Ted would be pulled over after being a fugitive for only six days.
Found in this vehicle were maps of the mountain area around Aspen.
Hilarious, because he got lost.
The prosecutors are actually currently using that map to demonstrate the location of Karen's
body.
Oh, that's crazy.
So they kind of think he was like going to like find it.
Unfortunately, because Ted was acting as his own attorney, he did have rights of discovery,
so he was allowed to have these in his possession, so he couldn't really get in trouble.
Although authorities figured that the fact that he had these maps with him meant that
his escape was planned and not just like an option of opportunity.
Ted would return to jail in Glenwood Springs, but he would ignore the advice of friends
and legal advisors to stay put and remain calm.
In fact, they indicated kind of that the case against him was like pretty weak.
So if he had just like shut the fuck up and like waited, he might have been able to get
a really low sentence or even be acquitted.
It would have been all circumstantial.
Because they were trying to say like significant bits of evidence were ruled as like inadmissible.
So MacCowd and Ainsworth were noted later as saying about this, quote, a more rational
defendant might have realized that he still had a good chance of acquittal and that beating
the murder charge in Colorado would probably have dissuaded other prosecutors with as little
as a year and a half to serve on the Derange conviction had Ted preserved, he could have
been a free man.
Yeah, he's a bad lawyer.
Just like he's as bad a lawyer as he is a survivalist.
He's fucking arrogant.
He can't keep his fucking mouth shut.
He wants to continue to talk and he's going to talk himself into getting like that's like
someone that talks himself into getting arrested when they just get pulled over for speeding.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And he could totally yeah, he could have he's using his powers for bad.
Right.
It's like he wants to push the issue because he wants to beat beat it, you know, and he
wants attention.
So rather than just chill the fuck out like I wrote, Ted decided that he was going to
assemble a new escape plan.
He was somehow able to obtain a map of the Garfield County jail as well as a hacksaw
blade from another inmate.
So this is not really a secure jail.
He would also somehow accumulate about $500 in cash.
I don't know if it was like to take with him or to like maybe bribe the cards or something.
Yeah, probably stole it from Liz.
Yeah.
During the evenings while other prisoners were showering, Ted would work on sawing a
hole about one square foot apart like in diameter, excuse me, between the steel reinforcing
bars and his cell's ceiling.
He would actually lose 35 pounds over a period of time in order to fit through the crawl
space.
That's creepy.
That reminds me of that Exiles episode.
He was actually able to work his way through the crawl space and explore it multiple times
to like get the lay of the land before he even tried to escape.
Did he draw a map?
He seems map obsessed.
Oh yeah.
It's like prison break literally.
The map's like on his tattoos.
Yeah.
Even though there are multiple reports by a prison informant about noise coming from
the ceiling, they were never investigated.
Yeah.
Like they're like, oh yeah, you're crazy.
Pest control out here for those raccoons.
Exactly.
So stupid.
By late 1977, Ted was still working on his escape plan, but he was also still working
on his hearing.
He filed for a motion for a change of venue to Denver from Aspen.
Sorry, Aspen?
Vale?
Yeah.
I think it was Aspen that they were having the hearing though because that's where he
escaped from.
Yeah.
On December 23rd, the Aspen trial judge granted the request, but not to Denver and said Colorado
Springs.
Okay.
Juries in Colorado Springs had historically been hostile towards murder suspects, so Ted
was not looking forward to this.
It's like, I'm great.
On the 9th of December 30th, 1977, most of the jail staff was out on Christmas break
and nonviolent prisoners were even out on furlough to be with their families.
Ted piled books and a bunch of papers in his bed, covered them with a blanket to emulate
his sleeping body, and climbed back into the crawl space he had been working on for months.
Like Shawshank style?
Yes.
He would break into the apartment of the chief jailer.
He had like a combined apartment, combined, conjoined.
So this guy was actually out as well for the evening to spend time with his wife.
So Ted would utilize this opportunity to steal some clothing from him and change into street
clothes and just walk right out the fucking front door to his freedom because he was no
longer in prison.
The jail?
Yes.
Because he was no longer in prison clothes.
They were just like, have a nice night, sir.
They didn't recognize him, I guess.
Maybe put a hoodie on or something.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Just walked out.
Literally, yeah.
I mean, this was before you needed like visitors badges and shit, you know.
Yeah.
Wow.
So he's out yet again.
Again.
And after stealing a car yet again, Ted would drive eastward out of Glenwood Springs, but
the car would actually break down in the mountains on Interstate 70.
I don't know.
A passing motorist came across Ted, remember he's in street clothes, and offered to give
him a ride to Vale, Colorado.
So about 60 miles east.
From here, Ted would catch a bus to Denver and even boarded a morning flight to Chicago.
What?
Like how fucking wild was that?
That you could just have an escaped felid board a plane because you didn't have like
TSA or anything.
Like it's ridiculous.
God.
So he had like a passport or an ID or something.
Remember he had that social security card?
I don't know if he still had that.
I don't know.
But you're Ted fucking Bundy.
I don't even think-
I don't even think you needed an ID to get on a plane.
I mean this is like 70 fucking seven.
Yeah, what is DB Cooper?
I don't know.
Anyway, it's just wild that he was like able to fucking do that.
So he's honestly in Chicago.
Just like, you know, on the flight, just like enjoying a drink.
Just Ted Bundy.
Back in Glenwood Springs, the jail skeleton crew did not even discover that he had escaped
until the following day at noon, more than 17 hours later.
By this time, he was already in Chicago.
It's like he's already got an apartment.
He's already got a family, kids.
From Chicago, Ted would travel by train to Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he was present
at a local tavern on January 2nd, according to eyewitnesses.
Five days later, he stole another car and drove south to Atlanta, Georgia, where he
then boarded a bus and arrived in Tallahassee, Florida on the morning of January 8th.
He stayed for one night at a hotel and then rented a room under the alias of Chris Hagan
at a boarding house near Florida State University.
He doesn't even look like a Chris.
No, he doesn't.
Ted stated later that he had initially wanted to find a legitimate job and refrain from further
criminal activity at this point, knowing that he could probably like stay out and remain
free and undetected in Florida as long as he didn't attract the attention of police.
But when he went to apply at a job at a construction site, he was asked to produce identification
and he didn't have any.
So he was like, fuck it, I'm just going to scrap this, go back to fucking danger.
Yeah, I'm going to go back to mail.
Just answer your question, he didn't have an IT.
So he threw his resume away and reverted to his old habits of stealing money and credit
cards from unsuspecting women at the grocery store, shoplifting, you know, the huge.
And on January 15th, 1978, one week after Ted arrived in Tallahassee, he would gain
access to FSU's Kai Omega Sorority House.
There was actually a faulty locking mechanism on the back door, which Ted took as an opportunity
to enter.
At about 2.45 a.m., Ted would bludgeon a 21-year-old sorority sister by the name of Margaret Bowman
with a heavy piece of oak firewood as she slept, ultimately crushing her skull and killing
her.
He would then garot her with a nylon stocking and ripped her underwear off with such force
that friction burns were actually found on one of her thighs.
After killing Margaret, Ted would walk directly across the hall into the bedroom of 20-year-old
Lisa Levy.
He would unfortunately then beat her unconscious as well and strangle her, leaving her alive
but badly injured.
Ted would actually slip up on his lack of leaving evidence in the past at this point.
He would actually bite her on her left butt cheek and actually as well on her nipple,
so there was like a distinct mark that could match his teeth.
I wanted to do odontology.
That was like one of the things I wanted to do.
So it's like matching dental records and bite marks.
Yeah, I was going to say that's really funny because I actually talk about odontology in
a minute after the court proceeding.
I figured it was going there.
So unfortunately after this, Ted would then brutally sexually assault Lisa's body,
rupturing her internal organs in the process as well.
He would then move on and go to 20-year-old Kathy Kleiner's room who actually was in
an adjoining bedroom with Lisa.
He would brutally attack Kathy as well, breaking her jaw and deeply lacerating her shoulder
in the process.
Lastly, Ted would attack 22-year-old Karen Chandler who would suffer from a concussion,
broken jaw, a crushed finger, and loss of multiple teeth.
This is what the fourth victim now needs?
Is one home?
Or a sorority, I guess?
A sorority house?
Mm-hmm.
Kathy and Karen would both ultimately survive their attacks for the last two women and
they would attribute their survival to the fact that there were actually headlights
from a car outside that were kind of illuminating their bedroom.
So they believed that since their room was brighter than the others, that your attacker
got spooked and decided to leave before finishing the job, essentially.
They weren't wrong as shortly after these attacks, Ted would flee the scene, but not
before being spotted by another sorority sister by the name of Nita Neary.
Oh, Nita.
She saw him as he was leaving.
Yeah.
Tallahassee law enforcement would later determine that these four attacks took place in a total
of less than 15 minutes and with an earshot of more than 30 witnesses who heard absolutely
nothing.
The amount of rage that he must have had.
15 minutes.
15 minutes to cause all that carnage.
Right after he's like, I think I'm just gonna get a job and be a nice guy.
You know what I mean?
Madden didn't get my job.
Oh, you want an ID?
That sucks.
Better go back to fucking murdering people.
Yeah, exactly.
Not long after Ted fled the scene, police would arrive and investigate, of course, because
there was two survivors and a witness.
Initially, the puncture wound through Lisa's nipple was so hard to determine that police
actually thought there had been a shooting in this sorority house.
Wow.
Because it was like really deep.
It was deep.
Yeah.
Lisa would unfortunately succumb to her injury shortly after police arrived and while she
was en route to the hospital.
So two deceased two survivors.
Within an hour after these attacks, Ted would create a makeshift pantyhose mask that he
wore to disguise his identity.
He would then make his way to a duplex house that was only eight blocks away.
There, he approached the basement window and climbed through under the cover of darkness.
Inside, Ted came across FSU student Cheryl Thomas asleep in her bed at around 4am.
Ted viciously attacked Cheryl, dislocating her shoulder and fracturing her jaw and skull
in five different places.
Jesus.
I know.
Cheryl was actually a dance major at FSU and although she would survive her attack,
she was left with permanent deafness and equilibrium damage that ended her dance career.
That is so fucking garrishing.
I would literally like, I would be so fucking like angry.
During this attack for unknown reasons, Ted actually took his mask off and put it on the
bed.
Luckily, Cheryl's neighbors in the room's adjacent overheard the ruckus and called police
who showed up to find Cheryl lying in her bed very badly injured, but no Ted.
Because of the mask he left behind though, which contained hairs of his and the semen
stain that was on the bed, though there was no evidence of sexual assault, it was very
clear to law enforcement that this was the same attacker from the sorority house.
I thought this guy was a fucking lawyer.
He's a dummy.
He is.
Dummy.
It's like, do you want to get caught?
Cause like now you're being a really fucking sloppy.
Yeah.
No, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know who the fuck's going to pin me to that.
Like put me in a connect me to the wherever.
So Sheriff Ken Ketzeris initially expressed a lot of shock and disbelief that the same
person would strike twice in such a short amount of time.
And so close together.
Yeah, exactly.
A few weeks later on February 8th, Ted would drive 150 miles east to Jacksonville in a stolen
FSU van.
Like obvious.
So we can stick with it.
Like has their mask on the fucking side of the car.
In a parking lot, he came across 14 year old Leslie Parmenter.
Ted would identify himself as quote Richard Burton fire department, but got spooked and
ran when Leslie's older brother actually arrived and confronted Ted.
And he's like, I'm a real firefighter.
What's up?
Yeah.
Little did Ted know that Leslie and her son, her brother were also the children of Jacksonville's
police department's chief of detectives.
Yeah.
So they immediately told him obviously.
That afternoon, Ted would go 60 miles west to Lake City.
At Lake City Junior High School the following morning, 12 year old Kimberly Diane Leach
was asked to go to her homeroom by a teacher to retrieve a forgotten purse and she would
never return to class afterward.
Nearly seven weeks later, after a very intense search, Kimberly's partially mummified remains
were found in a shed near Swannay River State Park, 35 miles northwest of Lake City.
Unfortunately, forensic experts were able to conclude that Kimberly had been sexually
assaulted before having her throat cut fatally.
That is also his youngest victim at 12.
You think he had another 12 year old?
Yeah, I'm sorry, one of his youngest victims.
On February 12th, 1978, Ted was struggling to pay his overdue rent payment and was also
growing very suspicious that the police were closing in on him.
Due to the suspicions and fears, Ted would steal yet another car and leave Tallahassee
for good, driving westward across the Florida Panhandle.
Again, this is almost a month after he's escaped, actually more than a month, a month and a
half.
I wonder if they think he's just still in that area because they already found him once
in that same area.
Yeah, sure.
Three days later, on February 15th, 1978, Ted was stopped by Pensacola police officer
David Lee at around 1 a.m.
Do you remember when Hillary told us that Ted was arrested in Pensacola?
Yeah, it's so funny because I was literally just thinking that but I was like, did I imagine
that or Hillary's right about that?
So again, stopped by officer David Lee.
David actually only stopped the vehicle because of a once in warrants check.
They showed him that the Volkswagen Beetle was actually stolen because he had obviously
just stolen the car.
Yeah, and it's a Volkswagen Beetle.
It's just so funny.
It's his favorite.
I bet he just looks like a cool hippie guy, but also clean cut.
But those were also super common too.
Yeah, he might as well just be like rolling around in a bro-rola or something.
Yeah, exactly.
It's a bro-rola the most common fucking car.
So David would approach Ted and after some short discussion with him and informed him
that he was under arrest because again, the car came back stolen.
Ted would respond by kicking David's legs out from under him and take off running and
like took off running in the opposite direction.
Yeah, it's like that's embarrassing.
That's embarrassing.
And like, have you ever like gotten your legs flipped out under you from like running like
that?
Yeah, scary.
Like you took off any bad things.
Dead legs you?
Yeah.
Especially we've been drinking just crumbled to the floor.
Sure.
David would fire two warning shots at Ted and then begin to chase him and eventually
caught up to and tackled Ted to the ground.
David and Ted were struggling over David's gun, but thankfully David was able to subdue
and arrest Ted.
After searching the stolen vehicle, police discovered three sets of IDs belonging to
female FSU students, 21 stolen credit cards and a stolen TV set.
They weren't the sorority girl ones though.
Were they the IDs?
Yeah, I think so.
The students?
Well, not the sorority girls though.
Not the ones that he...
I didn't say.
That he is hacked.
I mean, I assume it might be.
But either way, it's fucking creepy.
Yeah.
Like clearly getting into people's bedrooms and shit.
Yeah.
Or it might have been someone, you know, he said he was pickpocketing like wallets and
stuff in the grocery store and even that.
Also found in the car were a pair of plaid slacks and dark rimmed, non-prescription glasses.
Later identified as the disguise worn by Richard Burton, fire department, Jacksonville.
Slacks?
I have plaid slacks, don't judge.
Yeah, when like, well, what color are they?
They're like gray and pink.
That's kind of cute.
They are cute.
They're like legging slacks.
They're like 70s though.
Like if you're wearing plaid slacks, you're probably going like golfing or something.
Yeah, that's me.
Definitely not at me.
As David transported Ted to jail, he was completely unaware that he had just arrested one of the
FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives.
Ted was noted as saying to David during this car ride, quote, I wish you had killed me.
Yeah.
Who was that that we did a case on that and somebody's like, just kill me?
You should have just killed me.
Being arrested in Florida, Ted would stand trial in Miami for the Kaio Mega homicides
and assaults in June of 1979.
The trial was actually covered by nearly 250 reporters from five different continents,
and this was the first to be televised nationally in the United States.
I believe it.
Despite having about five court appointed attorneys, Ted once again insisted that he
handle his own defense.
I got this.
I don't know anything about DNA, but I got this.
One of his assistant attorneys, Paulie Nelson, would later write that from the beginning,
quote, sabotage the entire defense effort out of spite, distrust, and grandiose delusion.
Ted was facing murder charges with a possible death sentence, and all that mattered to him
apparently was that he be in charge, end quote.
And he looks good.
She's like, he didn't care about like doing a good job like, right, defending himself.
He just wanted to be the one that had the say because he thinks he's fucking smart.
Yeah.
He's got his plaid pants too.
Seriously.
He probably fucking did.
Probably did.
And he was like, I'm going to wear these goofy ass pants and I'm going to win this case.
But honestly, dude, like how do you not take the advice of your defense attorneys?
Seriously, like how do you fucking just say, uh, no, I got it.
Like I went to law school.
They're like, yeah, well, we've been fucking defending people for like probably years and
years and years.
And he's like, no, I got it.
I got it.
I went to law school.
Seriously.
And that's even when you have a defense team that's a team for a reason.
A reason.
Everybody's thinking differently and collaborate and like, yeah, that doesn't make, oh god.
So he's like, I'll allow you guys to work alongside me.
But like my essay is final.
You're just for show.
Yeah.
My assistance.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Another Tallahassee public defender and member of the defense team, Mike Minerva, I think
is how you say it.
Minerva.
Stated that a pre-child plea bargain was actually negotiated.
That would have Ted plead guilty to killing Lisa, Margaret and Kimberly in exchange for
a firm 75 year prison sentence.
Prosecutors were actually really interested in this idea, mostly because quote, prospects
of losing at trial were very good.
Yeah.
End quote.
I'm not sure if this is like just because it was such a huge case and they had to extradite
and all that stuff or there was just like so much evidence in such a little time.
With possibility or parole or no.
No, just like flat.
Yeah.
I think so.
But either way, the prosecution was like all for it.
Yeah.
Ted, on the other hand, looked at the plea deal not only as a means of avoiding the death
penalty, but also as a quote, tactical move.
Like your move guy.
Tactical feel.
Like what the fuck?
He figured that he would just enter his plea, then wait a few years for evidence to disintegrate
or become lost and or witnesses to die, just move on or retract their testimonies.
This guy's not a lawyer.
So fucking arrogant.
He's like, I'll just wait them out.
They'll eventually give up and I'll be crowned amazing and really into not let out.
Like no.
That's not how fucking works.
No.
Fuck.
God, so annoying.
He figured as well that once the case against him had just disappeared, he would file a post-conviction
motion to set aside the plea deal and secure it acquittal.
That's not how the fucking works.
This works.
So even though this seemed like a genius plan on Ted's behalf, he actually ended up
refusing the deal.
So he didn't even go through with it.
Good, because you're going to be found guilty and you're going to rot in prison.
So Mike Minerva would later say, quote, it made him realize he was going to have to
stand up in front of the whole world and say he was guilty.
He just couldn't do it.
I like that end quote.
End quote.
So during trial, crucial testimony came from Kyle Mega, Sorority sisters, Connie Hastings
and Nina Neary, who could both place Ted in the house with the murder weapon on the night
of the crime.
God, this guy.
Oh, this guy.
He was in the sorority house with the knife.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
In the bedroom with the candlestick.
Yeah.
Of course, like we said earlier, the bite wounds left on Lisa's buttocks were very incriminating
pieces of evidence along with her nipple mark.
Forensic ontologist Richard Sorvin and Lowell Levine would match the bite marks to castings
of Ted's teeth, which is like you said, what you want to do.
Which is pretty cool.
I wanted to do that, but you have to do dentistry and forensics.
Oh, that's wild.
It's a lot of schooling.
Yeah.
After all of the evidence and testimonies were on the table, the jury would deliberate
for less than seven hours before convicting Ted Bundy on July 24th, 1979 of the Margaret
and Lisa murders, three counts of attempted first degree murders and two counts of burglary.
So attempted first degree, yeah.
Yeah.
Second trial judge Edward Coart imposed death sentences for the murder convictions.
Six months later, a second trial would take place in Orlando for the abduction and murder
of Kimberly Leach.
Ted would be found guilty once again after less than eight hours deliberation.
This was mostly due to the testimony of eyewitnesses who saw him leading Kimberly from the schoolyard
to his van.
It's like, okay, what the fuck.
As well as the material evidence like clothing fibers, which is like low cards exchange principle
we were talking about.
So kind of something like that.
So something really fucking wild that happened during this hearing.
I had no fucking clue about this.
Are you ready?
Like it's not wild already.
Yeah, this is a wild story.
So Ted would actually take advantage of an obscure Florida law at the time of the trial
that stated that providing a marriage declaration in court in the presence of a judge would
constitute a legal marriage.
Okay.
So you remember Carol Boone from earlier?
Oh no, Carol.
The twice divorced mother of two who Ted started dating during his first round of murders.
What are you doing, Carol?
Well, since Ted was acting as his own lawyer, he had an opportunity to question Carol on
the witness stand.
She had actually moved to Florida to be near Ted previously and had testified for him,
for the defense on the past year trials as well.
This time she was testifying once again as a character witness.
During his questioning of her, Ted would ask Carol to marry him and she would say yes.
In front of the judge.
They were legally married.
Once she accepted, Ted would turn and address the court declaring that they were now legally
married according to the law.
How romantic.
I have like fucking heave.
So romantic.
Isn't that wild?
It's so wild.
Like you can just ask someone to marry you in court in front of a judge and they say yes
and then you're legally married.
Yeah.
Like what the fuck?
All right, noted.
On February 10th, 1980, Ted was sentenced for a third time to death by electrocution.
As the sentence was announced, Ted reportedly stood up and shouted, quote, tell the jury
they were wrong.
Like what?
Tell the jury they were wrong.
This third death penalty would be the one that was ultimately carried out.
So one to the other ones got stayed like the state of execution and then this was the one.
On October, I'm sorry, in October 1981, while Ted was on death row, Carol would give birth
to a daughter by the name of Rose, naming Ted as the father.
How's that possible?
While conjugal visits were actually not allowed at the Florida State Prison, where Ted was
being held, it was very known that the inmates would gather a bunch of money together and
bribe the guards for like intimate time with their female visitors.
So it's very possible and really well thought that Ted is the father of this child.
Isn't there another Rose in the story though?
Deroch is the other one's last name.
I think you're thinking of Carol Deroch.
Oh yeah, that's probably the name.
Rose.
Shortly after the Kimberly Leach trial had ended, Ted would initiate a series of interviews
with Stephen MacCowd and Hugh Ainsworth.
He was noted as speaking mostly in the third person to avoid, quote, the stigma of confession,
end quote, but he did begin for the very first time to relay details of his crimes and his
thought processes throughout his life.
He was like, well, he did this and he, Ted did this.
Yeah, Ted.
He would say like Ted did this, which was fucking gross.
That's creepy.
He would recount his career as a thief confirming Liz's long time suspicion that he had shoplifted
pretty much everything he fucking owned.
He would say about this, quote, the big payoff for me was actually possessing whatever it
was I had stolen.
I really enjoyed having something that I had wanted and gone out and taken end quote.
It was also something that he admitted to be a very important motive for rape and murder
as well possession.
I see.
He stated that sexual assaults had fulfilled his need to, quote, totally possess his victims,
end quote.
He also explained that at first he would kill his victims, quote, as a matter of expediency
to eliminate the possibility of being caught, end quote.
And later he would admit that murder became part of the quote, adventure, end quote, which
is gross.
It's part of the adventure.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful ride.
That's disgusting.
Like he probably thought that.
Yeah.
He probably thought this was like the all part of the human experience.
Yeah.
He would also state about this, quote, the ultimate possession was in fact the taking of life
and then the physical possession of the remains, end quote.
Oh, that's fucking nauseating.
So remember way earlier I talked about a gentleman by the name of William Hagmeier and I was
like, oh, remember what he is later?
So he's a behavioral analysis, in the behavioral analysis unit of the FBI.
So he was another person that Ted would confide in about interviews later in life or towards
the end of his life.
So according to William about Ted, quote, he said that after a while murder is not just
a crime of lust or violence.
It becomes possession.
They are a part of you.
The victim becomes a part of you and you too are forever one.
And the grounds where you kill them or leave them become sacred to you and you will always
be drawn back to them, end quote.
Ted would also confide in William that he considered himself to be an amateur or an
impulsive killer in his early years before moving into what he called his, quote, prime
or predator phase at about the time of the murders in 1974.
This phrase became very infamous because it implies that Ted indeed had murder victims
before 1974.
So he's like, oh yeah, I was like really sloppy before then.
It's like he's willing to only take credit for things that happened after he got like
good at it.
Yeah, which is like really gross.
In July 1984, prison guards would come across two hacksaw blades very well hidden in Ted's
cell.
He never learns his lesson, does he?
Yeah.
A steel bar in one of the cell's windows had also been completely like cut throughout
the top and bottom and glued back into place with a homemade adhesive.
Several months later, guards would also find an unauthorized mirror and Ted was then moved
to a different cell after this.
An unauthorized mirror?
Like he was in a lot of different mirrors.
Maybe glass.
Yeah, yeah.
Shortly thereafter, Ted would be charged with a disciplinary infraction for unauthorized
correspondence with another high-profile criminal, John Hinckley Jr.
Ooh, did we talk about this one already?
No, not really.
But for those that don't know, John Hinckley Jr. was an American man who attempted to assassinate
Ronald Reagan, president on March 30th, 1981, just two months after Reagan's first inauguration.
We might talk about him in the future, but I just wanted to pet that in there.
In October 1984, Ted would contact Robert Keppel and offered to share his self-proclaimed
expertise in serial killer psychology.
I am an expert at serial killer psychology because I am a serial killer.
Yeah, so he was offering to share his expertise on the ongoing manhunt in Washington for the
Green River Killer, also identified as Gary Ridgway.
Identified, that's his name.
He also identified as Gary Ridgway.
Yeah, so we actually did an episode on Green River Gary Ridgway.
We actually talked about this interview that Ted did, more in detail on that episode.
If you haven't heard that, jump on over and listen.
So Robert Keppel and the Green River Task Force Detective, Dave Reichart, interviewed
Ted together, like I said in the last episode, that Gary Ridgway would remain at large for
a further 17 years after this interview.
So clearly Ted wasn't that much of a fucking expert.
Well, he's not a smarty.
He's not the most brightly colored crayon.
Yeah.
Large Fourth 1986 was the execution date set for the Chai Omega convictions.
In April, shortly after the new date of July 2nd was announced, Ted would finally confess
many more details about what he did to some of his victims after their deaths.
He told them that he would revisit Taylor Mountain and other secondary crime scenes,
often several times, to lie with his victims and perform sexual acts with their bodies
until future faction forced him to stop.
Forced him to stop?
Yes.
So without being too overly disgusting, essentially it was physically impossible for him to sexually
assault the bodies.
Because they were so badly decamphiliated.
To perform knackered acts.
That's fucking gross.
He would also explain that in some cases he would drive several hours each way and remain
the entire night in those places with his victims.
Like he would just lay down wherever they were?
Just fall asleep.
Yeah.
Or maybe not.
He confessed that in Utah he applied makeup to one of his victims' lifeless faces and
repeatedly washed another one's hair.
He stated about this quote, if you've got time, they can be anything you want them to
be.
It just makes you want to vomit, right?
Fucking disgusting.
I'm literally covering my mouth right now.
He also admitted to decapitating at least 12 of his victims with a hacksaw and would
keep a number of their heads in his apartment before disposing of them.
And I put that in there because of the friends staying at the apartment or the co-workers.
Yeah, like how do you not know?
Like how do you not know?
That's not like their fault, I'm just saying.
Like, it's crazy.
Less than 15 hours before the new date of execution on July 2nd, the 11th Circuit Court
of Appeals stayed and indefinitely his execution and they remanded the Kyomega case review
on multiple technicalities including Ted's mental competency in a stand trial.
November 18th would be the new date that was set to carry out the Kimberly-Leach sentence.
Again, a lot of his execution dates kind of kept getting pushed and stuff.
He actually had a couple of other different stays, but an all-firm execution date was
finally set for January 24th, 1989 and it was finally announced.
It's like, we are not fucking changing this date.
Yeah, this is it.
Like, we're not doing it.
Even the, I think the governor was like, we're not fucking doing it.
Yeah, exactly.
Ted had such an insane ride through the appeal courts in fact that a statement was made.
Quote, contrary to popular belief, the courts moved Bundy as fast as they could.
Even the prosecutors acknowledged that Bundy's lawyers never employed delaying tactics.
The people everywhere ceded at the apparent delay and executing the arc demon.
Ted Bundy was actually on the fast track.
End quote.
So he's saying like, no matter how many times we've been pushing this, like, we're trying
our fucking damn to stick with the executor.
Yeah, absolutely.
With all the appeals exhausted and no for the reason to like hide the fact that he did
these crimes any longer, Ted agreed to speak frankly with investigators.
He would confess to murdering all eight of the Washington and Oregon women and would
describe three additional previously unknown victims in Washington and two in Oregon who
he declined to identify.
He also stated that he had left a fifth body on Taylor Mountain, like I said earlier, but
it was never recovered.
Robert Keppel stated about these descriptions.
Quote.
He described Isakua crime scene and it was almost like he was just there, like he was
seeing everything.
He was infatuated with the idea because he spent so much time there.
He is just totally consumed with murder all the time.
End quote.
Polly Nelson's experience was similar.
Again, this was the one of the appointed attorneys that was mostly an assistant to Ted.
Yeah, yeah, you're just the assistant.
She stated quote.
It was the absolute misogyny of his crimes, his manifest rage against women.
He had no compassion at all.
He was totally engrossed in the details.
His murders were his life's accomplishments.
End quote.
I know.
That's interesting about Ted Bundy is just the fact that, like he said, not her, the
defense attorney, right?
Polly, yeah, Robert Keppel.
Yeah.
When he was just saying it's all consuming, he doesn't know how to be anything else but
a murderer.
Yeah.
And that's just his job.
That's it.
My God.
So due to all of these last minute confessions being thrown out there, there were a lot of
questions being asked about whether or not Ted was going to be retried for any of these
new victims.
It became very clear that no further stays were going to be coming from the courts and
his execution date was not going to change again.
Polly Nelson stated about this quote.
The families already believed that the victims were dead and that Ted had killed them.
They didn't need his confession.
End quote.
Damn.
So they're like, fucking just executed?
We don't need to retry him for anything.
Like everyone already knows.
Yeah.
Florida governor Bob Martinez made a statement as well, quote, we are not going to have the
system manipulated for him to be negotiating for his life over the bodies of victims is
despicable.
End quote.
Fuck.
So he was like, he's trying to give us all this new evidence so that we'll keep trying
him so that we'll keep him alive.
Yeah.
And we're not fucking doing that.
We're not doing that.
Carol Boone had actually truly thought that Ted was innocent throughout his trials and
was noted as feeling, quote, deeply betrayed by his admission that he was in fact guilty.
His wife.
What kind of bullshit was he feeding her?
I have no idea.
But she like moved down to Florida for him.
She did character witness and all three of his trials.
All that.
As soon as he admitted as guilt, she would actually take their kid and move back to Washington
and refused to accept any of his phone calls on the morning of his execution.
Oh, damn.
That's cold.
She's like, fuck you.
You're fucking cold.
Yeah.
I mean, not that he deserves it or anything.
He doesn't deserve a fucking phone call.
But he must have just been feeding her some bullshit.
Like, no, like, let's have a baby because, you know, eventually I'm gonna get out of
here.
They're gonna find me innocent one day.
Yeah.
On the eve of Ted Bundy's execution, it was noted that he actually discussed committing
suicide.
It is widely thought that he did not just want to give the state the satisfaction of
killing him and he would have rather got out of his own accord.
Theodore Robert Bundy was executed via electric chair at 716 a.m. on Tuesday, January 24th,
1989.
His final words were directed at his attorney, Jim Coleman, and Methodist minister, Fred
Lawrence, quote, Jim and Fred, I'd like you to give my love to my family and friends,
end quote.
Like fuck off.
Fuck off.
Hundreds of onlookers sang, danced, and set off fireworks in the pasture across from
the prison as the execution was carried out.
They then celebrated as the white hearse containing Ted's body left the prison.
He was cremated in Gainesville and his ashes were scattered in an undisclosed location
in the cascade range of Washington state in accordance with his will.
So we can definitely go into, like, every single thing that Bundy was diagnosed with,
but in reality he's such an anomaly that there's really not one disorder that he
fell under.
Yeah.
I will just say that the majority of evidence points away from bipolar disorder and mostly
and other psychosis and towards antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder.
Yeah.
Dahmer had a pretty lengthy diagnosis as well.
Obviously he was an necrophiliac, paraffilic, you know, things like that.
The list goes on.
A lot of people think that he was a true psychopath or sociopath, but I just wanted to briefly
touch on that.
I will just really quickly go through a list of victims that were thought to be his, but
were not confirmed.
These are going to be ones that I have mentioned earlier, but I just wanted to give them the,
you know, acknowledgement at the very end of kind of talking a little bit more about
them.
So we're going to talk about those real quick.
And the, you know, mental illness we could talk about for a fucking day.
So of course there's Ann Marie Burr.
We talked about her in part one.
That's the eight-year-old that vanished from her home in 1961.
So this is one of the ones, but Ted was only 14 at this time, remember?
Okay.
The next are flight attendants Lisa E. Wick and Lonnie Rie Trumbull, both 20 years old.
They were found bludgeoned with a piece of lumber as they slept in their basement apartment
in June of 1966.
There are many similarities to this crime scene and the Chio Omega house crime scene.
So people do think that it might have been Ted.
Excuse me, Lisa would ultimately survive the attack and unfortunately Lonnie would pass
away.
But Lisa was noted as saying, quote, I know that it was Ted Bundy who did that to us,
but I can't tell you how I know.
And I know.
Like he just has that feeling.
It's just his silhouette or something.
Next is Susan Marguerite Davis and Elizabeth Perry, both 19.
These two women were both stabbed to death in New Jersey on May 30th, 1969.
Bundy is considered a quote, strong suspect in this case, but it's a bunch of circumstantial
evidence.
24 year old elementary school teacher Rita Patricia Curran was actually murdered in her
basement apartment on July 19th, 1971 in Burlington, Vermont.
She had been strangled, bludgeoned and sexually assaulted.
Ted had told Robert Keppel that he had murdered a young woman in 1971 in Burlington, but he
was never confirmed to be the perpetrator of this crime.
21 year old Joyce LePage was last seen on the evening of July 22nd, 1971 when her friends
dropped her off at an apartment on the campus of Washington state.
According to reports, a quote, yellow Volkswagen bug was matching Ted's description, a person
as well was not the bug, the person and a person matching Ted's description were both
spotted on campus at the time of her disappearance, but he still does remain a suspect again.
It's an open case.
Carrie Mae Hardy, 22, disappeared while hitchhiking on June 24th, 1972 from Capitol Hill, Washington.
They initially thought that she was a victim of Gary Ridgway, but neither him or Ted ever
commented on her case, so there's nothing linking her to either of them.
Rita Lorraine Jolly, 17, disappeared from Oregon on June 29th, 1973.
Ted did confess to those two homicides in Oregon without identifying the victim, so it's
widely thought that he might have been the perpetrator behind this disappearance.
Catherine Mary Devine, 14, was abducted on November 25th, 1973 near Olympia, Washington.
And Brenda Joy Baker, also 14, was last seen hitchhiking on May 27th, 1974 around the same
area.
Ted is widely believed to be responsible for both murders, but he told Robert Keppel that
he did not know either of these girls.
I should say disappearance is not murders, because again, there's no evidence right
there.
19-year-old Sandra Jean Weaver had been living in Utah and was lost in Salt Lake City on
July 1st, 1974.
Sources actually conflict on whether Ted mentioned her name before his death or interviews or
not, but again, her murder still remains unsolved today.
Melanie Suzanne Cooley, age 18, disappeared on April 15th, 1975 in Colorado.
Gas station receipts actually placed Ted at nearby Golden, Colorado on the day that she
disappeared, but again, still a cold case.
Go ahead.
Shelly, her last name was cool, but you'd mentioned her earlier in the podcast.
Yeah, some of these people are ones that I mentioned earlier briefly, but I just wanted
to put them down here just to remind everyone that they are still cold cases.
Anyone obviously has an information, please call.
He actually was questioned about this next one and it's pretty interesting.
So Shelly K. Robertson, 24, failed to show up for work in Golden, Colorado on July 1st,
the same day.
But when he was questioned about this case, he said, quote, I don't want to talk about
that.
So he didn't say like, I don't know who that is or I don't know who that is.
Yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
Even though there's no direct evidence of his involvement in the case, store remains
open.
Hmm.
23 year old Nancy Perry Baird disappeared from the gas station where she worked in Utah
on July 4th, 1975 and remains classified as a missing person today.
Ted would deny any involvement in this disappearance, but it is thought that he might have something
to do with it.
And lastly, Debbie Smith, who was 17, was lost in Salt Lake City in early February, 1976.
Ted is listed as a perpetrator by some sources, but her murder officially remains unsolved
as well.
Wow.
So a lot of victims, obviously a lot of those people we don't know for sure if he is the
perpetrator or not, but I definitely wanted to, you know, write those down and make sure
that I mentioned all of them, of course, because they are on a lot of sources that I was looking
up and, you know, they deserve to be mentioned as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the wilder ones that we've done.
That's like, dude, I hate saying this because we love bringing you guys content, but like
I am so ready to stop researching.
It was a lot.
I mean, that took me like probably three weeks to research.
I told you before we recorded that I had a Dahmer nightmares last night, not nightmares,
but like he had Evan Peters head as Dahmer, but he was built like Arnold Schwarzenegger
and he was standing in that apartment like in the Netflix show in front of the door like
he almost couldn't see the door frame.
He was so big and he had his glasses and everything.
Oh, that's so funny.
But his body was like tan like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
That's hilarious.
Because that's what he was into.
He was into muscular men and so it was just stuck in my head and I just remember thinking,
I'm in a dream with Dahmer right now, I gotta wake up.
It wasn't even like it was just because of the case and thinking about it and it just
being a part of your life when you research for stuff like this for so long.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us.
I hope you guys like these longer cases.
This is my proof that I had to do Bundy in two parts because this is both like an hour
and a half long episode.
So thank you guys for joining us and if you made it this far, we especially love you.
Yeah, thanks so much guys.
Come check us out at the, check us out.
Come see us at the Paranormal Podcast Festival, check out our social media is what I meant
to say and keep sending us messages and requests guys.
We're getting a lot that are really great.
We're writing a lot down.
Kowell actually already decided what you're gonna do for August's bonus episode and I
am still debating on mine.
I have something in mind for this month's 29th but I don't know yet.
But we'll definitely release that like we always do for the bonus.
We tell you guys like a week in advance who we're doing.
Yeah, we do a little teaser.
Yeah, but anyway.
Ladies always the one, the lady are scaring us.
They're always the one that knows exactly what we're talking about.
Yeah, exactly.
And I also just wanted to pepper in a little something that I'm really excited about.
I actually completed my application for my forensic psychology master's degree today.
So I applied for grad school today and hopefully I will get in.
So exciting.
And it's gonna be forensic psych, not forensic.
It's gonna be an MS though so it's gonna be like technically forensic science but it's
like forensic, it's not like a thesis.
It's just like a general degree.
Exciting.
But hopefully I'll get accepted and start that.
That's gonna be really cool.
We're writing high right now for sure.
Seriously.
Okay, well we will see you guys on Monday with another minty breaky and we love you.
We love you.
Bye.
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