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Hello!

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Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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I'm Kenna.

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I'm Koel.

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Dude!

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Oh my god.

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This whole week has just been madness.

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Yeah, it has.

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With these cases.

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It really has.

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And if you are a patron member, we definitely want to say thank you so much for supporting

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us monetarily, but also you guys get two insanely long, insanely awesome episodes in the same

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day.

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Dommar and Bundy!

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Well, I guess maybe this one will come out a little bit afterward.

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I would say maybe like 12 to 20 hours after the Patreon episode.

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But yeah, so you guys are going to get those both on the same day.

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This is going to be part two of Ted Bundeth.

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Bundeth.

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Yeah.

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We just want to also mention our regular listeners.

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You guys are so awesome.

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I know that you guys have been waiting for part two as well, so we're really excited

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to bring it to you.

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We love doing part twos.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, Elliot Rodger was a trip.

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Now we get Bundeth part two.

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Yeah, Bundeth and we've done some of the past as well.

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So definitely listen to those and give us your feedback if you guys like part two, like

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two parters, or if you want like one super long episode, we'll play around with some

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videos.

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Yeah.

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Meanwhile, you can check us out at Diagnosing a Killer dot com.

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There you will have links to merch and resources and events, including the True Crime and Paranormal

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Festival podcast festival here in Austin in August, late August, which will be our two-year

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anniversary weekend.

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It will be.

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And I took Friday off work already, so I got an approved.

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I'm not going to have to work on Friday.

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Yeah.

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So that's super, super exciting.

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Catch us on social medias at Diagnosing a Killer.

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Other than Twitter, it is at Killer Diagnosis.

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We have an Instagram.

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We have a Patreon.

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We have a, what else do we have?

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We have Twitter.

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Do you say Twitter already?

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Sorry, Twitter.

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We've got a zone there for us.

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We don't have a Facebook.

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We don't have a Facebook, but Facebook's like too public.

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I feel like a lot of people can access because like you can't make an account.

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You have to make like a group like page and then like people can post on it and stuff.

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So I'm like, I'd rather just control everything.

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So like that's not totally.

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Totally.

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No, but thank you guys again, like seriously for all your support.

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We have been getting a lot of really great reviews and feedback and all that good stuff.

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Heck yeah.

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And let's get into this fucking part two.

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It's been a fucking minute.

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Oh, I want to hear this content warning.

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Oh God.

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Content warning.

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This episode contains depictions of brutal sexual assault, sometimes including minors,

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graphic necrophilia and suicide.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.

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Remember your mental health is very important to us and we love you.

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We love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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So when we last left off, we were talking about the fact that Bundy had committed one

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of his many murders and had returned to the crime scene with things taped off and people

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kind of in the area and was not able to be seen somehow.

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Yeah.

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And then he took like, what did he take like keys or something?

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He took an earring and one of her shoes.

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And one of her shoes.

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Both of her earrings and one of her shoes.

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So last thing I said was that homicide detective Robert Keppel will hear his name a lot in

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this next episode or this episode.

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He stated about this quote, it was a feat so brazen that it astonishes police even today.

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And quote, blech.

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So again, that was talking about Ted's seventh victim, Georgian Hawkins, who he would later

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admit to visiting her deceased body on three occasions.

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After Georgian's disappearance, eyewitnesses would come forward and report seeing a man

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in an alley behind a nearby dorm on the night of her disappearance.

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This man was on crutches wearing a leg cast and was struggling to carry a briefcase.

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I just don't understand.

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Like, okay, because we talked about that last episode too where it's like, he always

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seems to be like, oh, oh, oh, like, yeah, bumbling around.

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But it's like, why would you choose to even carry the briefcase when you know you can't

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carry it?

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You know, it's not even that.

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It's like, who struggles to carry a briefcase?

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Like what's in there?

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Crutches?

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Oh, I guess, his hands are busy.

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It's not the weight.

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It's the, it's gonna get one of those like scooters.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Like a little scooter.

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That's what I was thinking.

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That's his thing.

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Pretend to be, you know, disabled for the moment or temporarily disabled.

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But what's ironic about it or weird about it is the fact that you would think that you

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would want to be so inconspicuous that you wouldn't put it on a big display like that.

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Yeah, you wouldn't want to draw attention.

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That's how brazen he actually is.

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Yeah.

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The fact that he is drawing attention to himself in order to not draw attention to himself.

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He's like, I'm just going to be extra casual and then no one will even just like that.

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Like extra mega soups cash.

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Yeah, for real.

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So one woman, another eyewitness would actually add that the man asked her for help carrying

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the case to his car, which was a life brown Volkswagen Beetle.

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During this time, Ted was still working in Olympia at the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory

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Commission.

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Now as the assistant director.

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Hmm.

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So he's like in crime prevention, actively committing crimes.

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She's like, God, we're gonna get these probes out here.

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He's Dexter.

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He would actually go on to write a pamphlet for women on rape prevention.

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Oh my God.

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That is horrible.

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He's the worst.

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Oh my gosh.

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He's the worst.

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I know.

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Ted would later get a job at the Department of Emergency Services, a state government

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agency involved in the search for missing women.

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Like, okay.

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It was here at this Department of Emergency Services that Ted would meet and begin dating

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a woman by the name of Carol Ann Boone, a twice-divorced mother of two who would remain

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in his life for a while after this.

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So let's remember that name, Carol Boone.

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Yeah.

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It's not Sarah Boone's mom, is it?

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I don't, I don't know.

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Suitcase lady.

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Oh.

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Stand her.

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You're right.

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It's not.

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She's such an idiot.

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She's so callous.

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Yeah, that's the one that she put her boyfriend in a suitcase because she thought it was like

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a punishment or something.

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She's like, oh, you got you.

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Yeah, we talked about that.

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And then, like, now she's currently petitioning with the judge to not take him.

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Not to get, like, two sidebar.

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But she's petitioning with the judge right now because she's like, I demand, you know,

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being able to talk to my attorney whenever I want.

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And I've called his office multiple times and, like, he's working on the case for you.

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He's busy.

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Yeah, seriously.

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But she just, oh gosh.

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And then she essentially pen pals the judge like they're friends.

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And it's just, she's just arrogant.

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Aren't they all?

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Very much just like her.

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So again, at this time, working at this new job, Ted would meet Carol Boone and begin

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dating her.

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Around this time as well, many reports of missing women and the brutal attack on Karen

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Sparks were appearing in the newspapers.

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When I stated in part one that she did not speak out about the assault until nearly 50

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years later, remember that?

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I told you that.

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She said that.

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I actually think her identity was still hidden.

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So she had spoken about the assault previously but then came out with her identity recently.

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Okay.

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Yes, exactly.

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It's not that she waited all this time to talk about it at all.

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So I was mistaken.

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So due to these new stories around the area, many women gave up hitchhiking and were becoming

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even more aware of their surroundings as well.

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Yeah, the 70s ruined hitchhiking.

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They really did talk about that in Dahmer too.

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Pressure began to mount on law enforcement but with little to no evidence, they didn't

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really even know where to start.

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Police would not provide even the little bit of information they did have about this suspect

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in the media in fear that he would flee and never be located.

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Further similarities about the victims began to surface, giving potential victims a warning.

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So on July 14th, just a reminder to everyone that's not listening back to back, this is

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1974, two women were abducted from a crowded beach at Lake Sammamish State Park in, I think

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it's Issaquah?

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Issaquah?

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Issaquah?

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Yeah, it's like, ISSAQUAH.

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Issaquah?

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I think it's Issaquah.

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What was the... Smash, mash, mash, what was it?

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Uh, Sammamish.

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Sma-mash.

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Sma-mash.

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Sma-mash.

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Sma-mash.

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I don't know.

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Sma-mash.

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Sammamish.

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Okay, whatever.

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Sorry if he's from Sammamish.

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Yeah.

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Iqwah.

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Janice Ott was a 23 year old juvenile court worker who lived in Issaquah.

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At the time of her disappearance, her husband Jim was studying in California.

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Janice and her husband had reportedly been going through a separation at this time, so

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on July 14th, 1974, she decided to take a day trip to the beach by herself to relax.

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After leaving a note for her roommate that she would return around 4.30, Janice took

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off on her yellow bicycle and headed for Lake Sma-mash.

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Sam.

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Sma-mash.

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Sam-mash.

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It's like Sammamish, I think.

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It's Sammamish.

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Sammamish.

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Because it's like S-a-m-m-a-m-i-s-h.

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Sammamish.

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Right?

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Sammamish.

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Sammamish.

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Sammamish makes sense.

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Sammamish.

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We'll just call it that.

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Alright.

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Email us.

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About 20 minutes after she got settled, Ted spotted Janice and approached her.

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Moments before this, he had actually attempted to lure another woman named Janice Graham

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away from the park.

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After introducing himself to first Janice and claiming that his arm was injured, he asked

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her if she could help him unload a sailboat.

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Thinking that the boat was just around the corner in the parking lot, she followed him,

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and then decided to distance herself when she was asked by Ted to get into his Volkswagen

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Beetle.

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At this point, Ted said, quote, that's okay, and admitted that he should have been a little

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bit more specific about where the boat was located.

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He was trying to tell him, hey, can you come help me load a sailboat till he can get in

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the parking lot?

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And then he was like, oh, it's at my parents' house.

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Come with me and help me.

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And she was like, pass.

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Yikes, hard pass.

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So again, this is a different Janice.

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The Janice he is spotted now is the one with her husband, and she is taking the day trip

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alone.

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Janice ought.

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Ted turned his attention to her, the woman laying on the towel, alone.

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And after approaching her, Ted gave her the same run around and explained that his arm

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was injured from playing racquetball.

256
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I'm just such a racquetball enthusiast.

257
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,360
However, this time he modified his story a bit and did share originally that his boat

258
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,920
was located at his parents' house in Issaacah.

259
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,920
Although Janice was friendly towards Ted, she was making it pretty obvious that she

260
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,080
didn't want to leave the beach.

261
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,160
She had just gotten there.

262
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,800
According to onlookers, Ted was very insistent, and judging by witness accounts, a snippet

263
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,800
of the conversation was actually able to be put together.

264
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:27,800
Hmm.

265
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,560
Janice, sit down and we can talk about it.

266
00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:31,840
Ted, it's up at my parents' house in Issaacah.

267
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:32,840
Janice, oh really?

268
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:33,840
I live in Issaacah.

269
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,280
Well, okay, I don't know how to sail though.

270
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,960
Ted responds, it'll be easy for me to teach you.

271
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,680
Janice, is there room for my bicycle in the car?

272
00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,520
Ted, yes, it'll fit in the trunk.

273
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:45,520
End of conversation.

274
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:46,520
Hmm.

275
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,680
At this point, Janice had gotten up and began to redress herself.

276
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:54,480
She then stated, quote, okay, I'll go under one condition, I get a ride in the sailboat.

277
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:55,480
End quote.

278
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,720
Ted responded, quote, of course, my car is over there in the parking lot.

279
00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,720
End quote.

280
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,280
To which Janice replied, quote, I guess I'll get to meet your parents then.

281
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,680
Oh, very fast.

282
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:05,680
Yeah.

283
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:08,280
This would be the last time that anybody saw Janice alive, unfortunately.

284
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,280
Wow.

285
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:10,280
It's like so scary.

286
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,280
Like people are like over her this conversation just thinking it was like casual.

287
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,280
This thing was, yeah.

288
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,280
Yeah.

289
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,120
So, next two hunters would discover her skeletal remains scattered across a grassy patch of

290
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,640
land in a wooded area near Issaacow.

291
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,520
Denise Marie Nozlund was a 19-year-old student who was studying software development during

292
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,320
night school.

293
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,240
During the day, she worked part-time as an office worker.

294
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,920
And at the time of her death, Denise was dating a man by the name of Ken Little, who had

295
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,200
arrived with her around 1 p.m. along with another couple at Lake Sammamish on the day

296
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,240
of her disappearance, July 14th.

297
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,520
The couple that they were with was Bob Sargent and Nancy Batma.

298
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:46,520
Or Batima.

299
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,440
I don't know how to pronounce words, I'm sorry.

300
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,520
Shortly after 4 p.m., Ken and Bob fell asleep after having a big lunch, and Denise shared

301
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,800
with Nancy that she was not feeling so great and she was going to use the restroom.

302
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,720
So it was at this point that Denise left and walked towards the restrooms but was never

303
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,720
seen alive again.

304
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,360
So you just like, was like, oh, I'll be right back going to the bathroom.

305
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:07,360
That is terrifying.

306
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:08,360
I know, it's so scary.

307
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,160
Did you imagine like that whole time you're sitting there and you're like, gosh, she's

308
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:12,360
been in the bathroom for a while.

309
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,360
She could go check on her.

310
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,600
If somebody would go check on her and she's just not in there.

311
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,920
Yeah, that's so scary.

312
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,600
So throughout eyewitness testimonies and stuff, and of course Ted's confessions later on,

313
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,080
detectives were able to determine that at some point Denise was approached by Ted, who

314
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,080
had returned to the same lake to look for another victim after taking Janice away.

315
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,800
Eight weeks later, her skeletal remains were discovered alongside Janice's.

316
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,320
That's Denise.

317
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,240
The afternoon war on July 14th and Denise's boyfriend and friends hung around to wait

318
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,120
for her to return.

319
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,760
While all other cars were leaving the parking lot and Denise's remained, her boyfriend

320
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,320
Ken began to worry and decided to report her missing to a park ranger.

321
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,120
Like, can you imagine that?

322
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,000
Like everyone else is leaving and her car's still there.

323
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,800
Just one by one, one by one.

324
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,880
Despite the women going missing from college campuses over the last few months, the disappearances

325
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,720
from the lake came as a shock to everyone.

326
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,560
In this case, an unidentified man calling himself Ted had seemingly abducted two women

327
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,840
from broad daylight from the same place in the same day.

328
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,840
Okay.

329
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:14,840
Why are you gonna call yourself Ted?

330
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:15,840
It's like, wait.

331
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:16,840
For real?

332
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:17,840
Come on.

333
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:18,840
It could be anybody.

334
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,840
And he's just like, no, I'm Ted.

335
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:21,840
No, I'm sorry.

336
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,840
It's like so silly.

337
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:23,840
Like, it is.

338
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,840
Like, I mean, again, it's how bold he is.

339
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,160
Yeah, exactly.

340
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,280
Not only in the same day did these two women disappear, but within three and a half hours

341
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,280
of each other.

342
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,280
Oh my God.

343
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,520
It's like he literally just kidnapped one, did whatever, kidnapped, like came back,

344
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:39,520
kidnapped another one.

345
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:40,520
Oh, yeah.

346
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,560
And this particular day was actually extremely busy with nearly 40,000 guests waiting to

347
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:46,560
soak up the sunshine.

348
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:47,560
I mean, it's the middle of summer.

349
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:48,560
Yeah.

350
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,400
This gave way for many eyewitnesses.

351
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,520
So four female witnesses described an attractive young man wearing a white tennis outfit with

352
00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,960
his left arm and a sling, speaking with a slight accent, perhaps Canadian or British.

353
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,560
You couldn't get it right either way.

354
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:06,320
Hey, what's this all about, eh?

355
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,320
Yeah.

356
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,360
Three of these women would refuse when he asked them for help.

357
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,080
And the fourth was Janice Graham, the one that would flee after getting to the car.

358
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,120
Of course, the witnesses that overheard the beach conversation between Janice and Ted

359
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,000
would come forward.

360
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,640
And Ted would later tell Stephen Macau and William Hameyer that Janice was still alive

361
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:29,560
when he returned with Denise and that he forced one to watch as he murdered the other.

362
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,960
But he would later deny this on the eve of his execution.

363
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,560
So he just said it for like shock factor, apparently.

364
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:42,600
Just a reminder to everyone, Stephen Macau is a biographer and I think he's a doctor

365
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,440
and William Hameyer, I don't know exactly what he is, but he'll come back in the story

366
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,440
later.

367
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,200
But these are people that he interviewed after he was in prison.

368
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,200
Yeah.

369
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,200
Post-conviction.

370
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,200
Exactly.

371
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,680
So following these attacks, police were able to get a pretty decent composite sketch

372
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,800
of the suspect and his car and they would post flyers throughout the Seattle area.

373
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680
He looked like Weird Al Yankovic or something.

374
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:13,320
These sketches were also posted in regional newspapers and broadcast on local TV stations.

375
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:20,280
Four people close to Ted, including Ann Rule, his old co-worker and also the writer.

376
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,800
And Elizabeth Colfer, his ex-girlfriend, recognized that the photo kind of looked a lot like him

377
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,720
and decided to report it to police.

378
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,360
And also he called himself Ted.

379
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,840
This guy says his name's Ted.

380
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,840
Do you know what he named Ted?

381
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:33,840
Do you know what he named Ted?

382
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,840
That's like this car.

383
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:35,840
That's like this car.

384
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,000
That kind of looks like Ted.

385
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,480
So getting over 200 tips per day, police would actually rule Ted out as a suspect as they

386
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,880
thought it was highly unlikely that a clean cut law student with no adult criminal record

387
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,440
could possibly be the perpetrator.

388
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:49,440
Oh Jesus.

389
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,360
And of course the perpetrator probably wouldn't use his real name.

390
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,360
Yeah, exactly.

391
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,360
Why would he do that?

392
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,360
That's so lame.

393
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,360
So lame.

394
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,360
You know, Ted's a very common name.

395
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:58,360
The Adol.

396
00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,360
The Adol Bundeth.

397
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,240
Yeah, it's just silly because like you hear those things in hindsight and you're like,

398
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,880
yeah, maybe if you like took those calls seriously, like he wouldn't have murdered like 20 more

399
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,880
people.

400
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:10,880
Right.

401
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,880
If you just looked in his basement.

402
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:12,880
Seriously.

403
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:13,880
This would all be over.

404
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:14,880
Dumber.

405
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:15,880
Dumber.

406
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:16,880
If you just looked behind that bedroom door.

407
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:17,880
Seriously.

408
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,320
Six months after the remains of Denise and Janice were found, forestry students from the Green

409
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,320
River Community College discovered the skulls and jaw bones of four of Ted's previous victims.

410
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,080
Unfortunately, the remains of Donna Manson were never recovered, even though she had

411
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,080
said that he dumped her body there as well.

412
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,600
In August 1974, Ted received a second acceptance from the University of Utah Law School and

413
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,560
would move to Salt Lake City, leaving Liz in Seattle.

414
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,240
Although he called Liz often, Ted would admit to dating quote, at least a dozen other women

415
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,680
as well during this time.

416
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:55,200
So not only is he like the worst person alive, but he's also a cheater and a dog.

417
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,560
So this is Liz, like his ex-ex-girlfriend.

418
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,520
He tried to get back, he did get back with that other ex just to see if he could marry

419
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,520
her and then he left her.

420
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,800
And then of course he's dating Carol at this time too.

421
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:04,800
Remember Carol Boone?

422
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:05,800
Don't forget about her.

423
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:06,800
Don't forget about Carol Boone.

424
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,800
Yeah.

425
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,040
As he began his first year of law school for the second time, he was devastated to find

426
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,600
out that the students at this university quote, had something, some intellectual capacity

427
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,600
that he did not.

428
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,280
Oh, so he felt inadequate.

429
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,280
He did.

430
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,280
For like the first time.

431
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,400
He found himself completely lost in the classes there stating that it was quote, a great disappointment

432
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,400
to me.

433
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,900
End quote.

434
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:32,480
Homicides began happening once again in the vicinity of Ted.

435
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,480
God.

436
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,480
That's not funny.

437
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,040
It's not funny, but just the fact that he's like, oh, like clearly this isn't going to

438
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:39,040
work out.

439
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,560
I might as well just go hurt more people.

440
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:41,560
Exactly.

441
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,000
Including two that would remain undiscovered until Ted confessed to them shortly before

442
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,000
his execution.

443
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,840
Sorry, I put my hand like in front of my mouth and it muffled me.

444
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,800
On September 2nd, 1974, Ted would sexually assault and strangle a woman after picking

445
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,920
her up hitchhiking in Idaho.

446
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,320
Then either dispose of her remains immediately in a nearby river or return to the next day

447
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,080
to take photos of the corpse.

448
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,000
He said both in the past.

449
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,600
That he didn't know which one he couldn't remember specifically.

450
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,160
I think it was more of like he said one thing and then he like changed his statement about

451
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:16,160
it.

452
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,160
Like I don't know if he's like, go to remember.

453
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,280
Like he just kind of like, you're in shock factor.

454
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,280
Yeah.

455
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,400
The identity of this woman would actually never be found out.

456
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,240
On October 2nd, Ted would abduct 16 year old Nancy Wilcox in Holiday, Utah, a suburb

457
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,960
of Salt Lake City.

458
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,400
She would vanish after leaving her home the same day and her parents would quickly think

459
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,960
that she had run away and would report this to police.

460
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,760
Nancy being the victim of an abduction, especially one that was connected to the recent disappearances,

461
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,000
was not on anybody's radar.

462
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,760
And due to this, the Sheriff's juvenile division did not release a public statement until December.

463
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,480
So how long?

464
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:51,480
Two months.

465
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,480
What?

466
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,320
They were like, oh, well, the people that have been disappearing are college students.

467
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,000
She's 16 and her parents report her run away.

468
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,600
So they were like, obviously she's run away.

469
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,600
Oh my God, that's awful.

470
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,680
Wasn't that Tony's mom I think it was, right?

471
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,680
Yeah.

472
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,600
Anthony's mom I think it was and the Dahmer story.

473
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,240
They waited four fucking weeks.

474
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,240
Yeah.

475
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,240
Four weeks.

476
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,240
It's disgusting.

477
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,320
Because they were like, oh, you know, he was in a homosexual relationship.

478
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,320
Yeah, exactly.

479
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,000
Like that's awful.

480
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,000
Even when they did release a statement about Nancy's disappearance, they were sure to stress

481
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,000
the fact that Nancy may have still been a runaway.

482
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,880
They're like, just to let everyone know she's probably a runaway.

483
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,440
We're going to just cover our asses and post about it.

484
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:38,400
Anyways, just to be sure, because it's what you guys want, but we're telling you right

485
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,800
now she's a runaway.

486
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,800
Wow.

487
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,160
It wasn't until other young girls started disappearing that Nancy was connected to this

488
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:45,600
case at all.

489
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,560
Unfortunately, Nancy's remains were never found and her case remains open today.

490
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,560
Still?

491
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,560
Still.

492
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,560
Ted did, however, confess to her murder shortly before his death.

493
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,120
There's just no evidence to fully close the case.

494
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,720
Because there's no body.

495
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,000
On October 18th, Melissa Ann Smith, the 17 year old daughter of the police chief of Middale,

496
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,120
disappeared after leaving a pizza parlor.

497
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,520
God, the ball's on this fucker.

498
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:16,640
Her nude body would be found in a nearby mountainous area just nine days after her disappearance.

499
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,320
Post mortem examinations would later determine that she may have been kept alive for nearly

500
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,520
seven days before her death.

501
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,640
So this is like completely different than what he's been doing.

502
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,560
Yeah, because it's usually very quick.

503
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,560
Yes.

504
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:34,480
On October 31st, Laura Ann Aime, also 17, disappeared 25 miles south of where Melissa

505
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,720
did.

506
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,240
Laura was last seen leaving a cafe just after midnight.

507
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,960
There are a lot of conflicting accounts of what happened after Laura was last seen.

508
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,800
But what we do know is that Ted met up with her at some point and lured her into his vehicle.

509
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,280
Like on a date or something, maybe?

510
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,040
I want to say she needed like a ride home or something and maybe it offered.

511
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,760
But I might be mixing it up with a different person.

512
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,040
But either way, you know, he's very casual and he's very convincing.

513
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,040
He's like, oh my God, I love your skirt.

514
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,040
Where did you get it?

515
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,040
Yeah.

516
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,040
He's like Regina George.

517
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,040
Yeah, he is.

518
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,040
He's Regina George.

519
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:15,040
So, unfortunately, Laura's nude body would be found by hikers nine miles northeast on

520
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,040
Thanksgiving Day.

521
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,360
It's so awful.

522
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:25,480
Both Melissa and Laura had been sodomized, raped, and strangled with nylon stockings.

523
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,200
Years later, Ted would describe his post-mortem rituals with both girls, including hair shampooing

524
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,480
and application of makeup.

525
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,880
Interesting, like a mortician or something.

526
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,880
Yeah.

527
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,680
And the late afternoon of the- and we'll get into more of that later.

528
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,600
In the late afternoon of November 8th, 1974, Ted would approach 18-year-old Carol Derange

529
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,480
at Fashion Place Mall in Murray.

530
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,320
Carol was a telephone operator when she was introduced to Ted.

531
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,800
He would identify himself as Officer Roseland, however, and explained that he was a member

532
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,120
of the Murray Police Department.

533
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,200
He told her that somebody had attempted to break into her car because she's at the mall.

534
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,200
Right?

535
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,200
So he's like, oh-

536
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,200
He's like, oh-

537
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,200
I came to find you.

538
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,640
Ma'am, I ran the registration on your vehicle and I know exactly what you look like.

539
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,120
I just happened to spot you out of this fucking huge crowd of people.

540
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:11,720
Out of a mall.

541
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,080
And somebody's trying to break into your car.

542
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,080
You must come with me, ma'am.

543
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,080
Yes.

544
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,280
So he asked her to accompany him to the station to file a formal complaint, thinking that he

545
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,360
was a genuine officer.

546
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,200
Carol complied and got into Ted's vehicle with him.

547
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,960
When Carol pointed out to Ted that he was driving down a wrong road and not headed towards

548
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,360
the police station, he pulled the car onto the shoulder and attempted to handcuff her.

549
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,040
Oh my God, it's fucking scary.

550
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,040
I don't know.

551
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,480
So when Carol began to fight Ted, and during the struggle, Ted accidentally attached both

552
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,920
handcuffs to the same wrist on Carol.

553
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:44,920
Oh, okay.

554
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,760
So she's free, technically.

555
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,760
Following this, Carol was able to escape the vehicle and run away.

556
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Bad bitch.

557
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,320
So she would survive.

558
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:59,600
Later that evening, November 8th, 1974, 17-year-old Viewmont High School student Deborah Jean

559
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,360
Kent disappeared after leaving a theater production at school to pick up her brother.

560
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,280
This was 20 miles north of Murray.

561
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,280
So we traveled 20 miles.

562
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,280
They drove all the way up there.

563
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,200
The same night.

564
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,760
The school's drama teacher and a student would later tell police that, quote, a stranger

565
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,440
had asked each of them to come out to the parking lot to identify a car.

566
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,440
Another student would say that she saw the same man pacing in the back of the auditorium.

567
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,680
Outside the auditorium, investigators would find a key that unlocked the handcuffs removed

568
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,360
from Carol's wrist.

569
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:33,840
So now they know that they're like connected.

570
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,840
That's right.

571
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,400
I know.

572
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,400
I know.

573
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,600
According to the witnesses, there was a loud screaming coming from the parking lot of the

574
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,440
school around the time that Deborah was last seen, and one person reportedly saw a light-colored

575
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,760
Volkswagen bug speed away from the school.

576
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,880
Unfortunately, Deborah would become yet another victim of Ted's, and her remains would not

577
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,000
be identified until 2015 when a patella was assumed to be hers, which is a kneecap for

578
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,120
those that don't know, and was able to be positively identified as such.

579
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,200
So that's all that they found of her is her kneecap.

580
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,880
The same month Deborah would be murdered, November, Liz, his ex-girlfriend, would call

581
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,280
King County Police a second time after reading that young women were now disappearing in

582
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,960
Salt Lake City where Ted moved.

583
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:18,960
Oh, God.

584
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,120
She's like, hey, by the way.

585
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,120
Poor woman.

586
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,760
She's like, no, I'm telling you, like, it's him.

587
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,760
It's him.

588
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:25,760
So why don't you go?

589
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Just go get him.

590
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:27,760
Just go get him.

591
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,240
So Liz, of course, had known that Ted was living in the area, and she did not think it

592
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,240
was a coincidence that the crimes moved with him.

593
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,240
God.

594
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,680
And he looks like the composite sketch, and his name is fucking Ted.

595
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,680
And he drives the same car.

596
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,680
And he drives the same car.

597
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,280
I'm going to butcher this last name again, but Detective Randy Herdschimer of the Major

598
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,640
Crimes Unit interviewed Liz around this time.

599
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,760
At this point, Ted was considered high on the suspect list for the disappearances.

600
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:57,880
However, witnesses in the Lake Shemamish abductions were unable to identify him via a photo lineup,

601
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,400
so police didn't really have any solid evidence to bring him in.

602
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,400
That's what they said.

603
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,720
Nobody was able to positively ID him.

604
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:04,720
From the Lake Disappearances.

605
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Yeah.

606
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,440
So she's trying to call in both towns, saying this was him and this was him, but they can't

607
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,600
compare the two, so they really don't have anything to go on.

608
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,080
I know, it sucks.

609
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,800
In December, Liz would contact authorities once more and repeated her suspicions of Ted.

610
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,960
Police would then officially add Ted to the suspect list in Salt Lake City, but at that

611
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,160
time, there was no credible evidence to arrest him for the Utah crimes either.

612
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,720
So he's still out and about.

613
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,720
Yeah.

614
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,720
I mean, it just sucks.

615
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,800
It's like they're trying to work within the confines of the law.

616
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,240
But she's like, more people...

617
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,240
I have evidence in my head.

618
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,280
But more people essentially have to die for this man to be caught, which is awful.

619
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,720
At this point, Liz and Ted were actually still seeing each other occasionally, because again,

620
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,600
remember he's dating all these women at once?

621
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,440
She comes out with a legal pad and she's like, uh, yeah.

622
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,440
Exactly.

623
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,880
What did you do last Thursday at 7?

624
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,480
But of course they weren't living in the same place, they didn't see each other all the

625
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,880
time.

626
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,120
In January of 1975, Ted would return to Seattle after his final exams and would spend an entire

627
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:08,920
week with Liz.

628
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,080
While she still did have her suspicions, of course she did not tell Ted that she had

629
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,000
phoned police about him several times.

630
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,360
I just like, how do you break it off?

631
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,800
How do you have him spend the week at your house?

632
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,240
Well, you're probably scared, right?

633
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,520
You're thinking if I break up with him, he's gonna do something to me.

634
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,200
Or you're thinking like, maybe I'm just like overreacting, maybe that's not him, maybe

635
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,200
it's just coincidence.

636
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,200
Yeah, I love him.

637
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:34,440
After this visit, Ted would make plans to visit Liz again later that year in August.

638
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,960
The same month in January of 1975, Ted would find yet another victim.

639
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,560
23-year-old Karen Campbell was heading to her hotel room in Aspen, Colorado when she

640
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,120
disappeared.

641
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,800
She had been walking down a well-lit hallway between the elevator and her room at the Wildwood

642
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,320
Inn, making it clear that Ted was becoming very good at charming women and convincing

643
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,360
them to leave their safe places.

644
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,880
Like in the hallway.

645
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,160
Karen was actually on vacation with her fiance at the time of her abduction.

646
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,160
No!

647
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,880
And she was abducted literally like feet from their hotel room door.

648
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:07,880
That is heartbreaking.

649
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:14,280
I have like full body heaves, like that's so scary.

650
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,160
Ted would abduct Karen and ultimately murder her via blows to the head and deep wounds

651
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,680
from a sharp weapon.

652
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,360
That's just, you're so right, that's incredible that he can literally like, charismaticly gain

653
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:30,160
someone's trust within seconds, minutes, maybe.

654
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,920
Karen's nude body would be found nearly a month later next to a dirt road just outside

655
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,920
the resort.

656
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,920
What?

657
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,920
Yeah, yeah.

658
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920
Nearly a month later, just outside the resort.

659
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,680
Say an oxymoron.

660
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,160
A few months later, on March 15th, 26-year-old Julia Cunningham disappeared while walking

661
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,720
from her apartment to a dinner date with a friend.

662
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,640
Ted would later admit to authorities that he approached Julia while on crutches, asking

663
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,000
her to help him carry his ski boots to his car.

664
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,400
God, this guy.

665
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,400
Yeah.

666
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,760
Julia was actually an employee at the ski shop, so it wasn't unusual for members to

667
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,760
ask for help.

668
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,760
Heard, yeah.

669
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,840
And I'm sure he fucking knew that.

670
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Once in his car, Ted clubbed and handcuffed Julia before sexually assaulting her and

671
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,480
unfortunately strangling her to death.

672
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,560
This happened about 90 miles west of Vale, Colorado, just to put it in perspective, because

673
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,760
he was an aspen as well with the other one.

674
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:19,760
Oh, I see.

675
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,760
With Karen, yeah.

676
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,720
He also admitted that weeks after this murder, he would take it upon himself to make the nearly

677
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:30,520
six-hour drive from Salt Lake City to visit her deceased body.

678
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,520
Like what?

679
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,800
I mean, it's got to be giving him a complex that he's been able to get away with all of

680
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,240
these murders, and it's seemingly easy to get these women to trust him with the occasional

681
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,240
screw up.

682
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:46,440
Well, the fact that he keeps revisiting their bodies or the dump sites and all that other

683
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,480
stuff that, yeah, clearly he's like, I want to relive being able to get away with it.

684
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,480
Exactly.

685
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,480
And he talks about that later too.

686
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,440
Go check them out whenever I want, because I know nobody's going to find them.

687
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,440
Exactly.

688
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,440
And I know nobody's going to link them to me.

689
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,440
God, so gross.

690
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,000
What a fucking narcissist.

691
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,480
Hell yeah.

692
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:08,320
25-year-old Denise Lynn Oliverson disappeared near the Utah, Colorado border in Grand Junction

693
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,040
on April 6, 1975.

694
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,520
She was abducted while riding her bike to her parents' house.

695
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,400
Her bike and sandals were later found near a railroad bridge, and that's essentially

696
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,640
all we really know about that.

697
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,400
On April 15, 1975, 18-year-old Melanie Cooley disappeared on her way home from high school.

698
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Her body would later be found bludgeoned to death with a rock.

699
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:37,320
Do you think that he switched up the ages because it changes the emo just a little bit?

700
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,320
I think so.

701
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,320
Yeah.

702
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
So Ted had actually been suspected of her murder, but he would never confess, and her case

703
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,000
is also still open today.

704
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:52,040
On May 6, Ted would kidnap 12-year-old Lynette Don Culver in Pocatello, Idaho, 160 miles

705
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,120
north of Salt Lake City.

706
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,800
He drove all the way out there.

707
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,160
He would bring this girl into his hotel room where he would ultimately drown her in the

708
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,520
tub and dispose of her body in a river north of Pocatello.

709
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,520
12.

710
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:05,520
I know it's hard.

711
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:06,520
12.

712
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,160
He would not specify which river this was, but investigators believe it may have been

713
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,880
the Snake River, but she was never found.

714
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,880
In mid-May, three of Ted's Washington state DES coworkers visited him in Salt Lake City

715
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,000
and would stay a week with him in his apartment.

716
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Three?

717
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Three of his coworkers?

718
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Yeah.

719
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,040
Which is- I'm putting that in there mostly because there's no way he has no evidence

720
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,040
in his apartment.

721
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,040
I see.

722
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,840
And three different people stayed with him for a week.

723
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:32,840
A week.

724
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,680
And he was still able to get away with this shit.

725
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,680
Yeah.

726
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,440
Like, it's just crazy.

727
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,160
He would then spend a week with Liz in early June, and the two would even discuss plans

728
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,640
to get married the following Christmas.

729
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,640
Oh my God, this guy.

730
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,320
Liz keeping her secret about her police visits the entire time.

731
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,320
She was like, yeah, I'm gonna marry you.

732
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,800
Liz was not the only one keeping secrets, however, as Ted did not disclose to her that

733
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,920
he was dating three other women at the same time as well.

734
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Jesus.

735
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,440
It's like H.H. Holmes, right?

736
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,640
It was like he was traveling across, you know, different state lines and just marrying women.

737
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Yeah.

738
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,640
His was all greed.

739
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,840
Well, I mean, we're not gonna put it past him to keep three women a secret when he's

740
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,440
murdering all these other women.

741
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,440
Oh yeah.

742
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Yeah.

743
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,440
He's not worried about lying about dating.

744
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,160
I just think it's interesting that with a lot of serial killers, like, you know, we

745
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:24,160
talk about like BTK or any other, I don't know, BTK is a good example, that he, Dennis

746
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:31,560
Rader would marry and settle into a family life, but it's, again, it's just so brazen

747
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:38,280
of Ted to have multiple relationships and also be a serial killer because any one of

748
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,240
these chicks could just rat on you.

749
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Yeah.

750
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,240
Like one little tiny thing.

751
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,240
Exactly.

752
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,560
And, you know, most serial killers that we've done before have covered in the past, again,

753
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,600
they settle down with one family because that's, that's, that's what makes me normal.

754
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:52,600
That's your beard.

755
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,600
Yeah.

756
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,600
Yeah, that's your beard.

757
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,600
Exactly.

758
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,600
And Ted doesn't need a beard.

759
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,600
He doesn't want a beard.

760
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,600
He's too charismatic.

761
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,600
He's too narcissistic.

762
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:00,600
He's too narcissistic.

763
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,240
He's just like, he's smarter than everyone.

764
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,440
And unfortunately, he hasn't been up until now.

765
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,080
He thinks he looks like the stereotypical ladies man.

766
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,080
Yeah.

767
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,080
Which he's not really that good.

768
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,240
I mean, he's like a bad looking, but like he has a unibrow.

769
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,960
I know, but he had a unibrow.

770
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,320
Every dude in the 70s had a unibrow.

771
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:15,320
That's Tommy Lee Jones.

772
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:16,320
That's true.

773
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,320
Eyes of Laura Mars.

774
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,320
That's very true.

775
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,320
He had a righteous unibrow.

776
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:20,320
Right.

777
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,320
He was still hot though.

778
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,640
Okay, back to the story.

779
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,760
On June 28th, 15 year old Susan Curtis was abducted by Ted in Prov, 45 miles south of

780
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,440
Salt Lake City.

781
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,320
She would be the last murder that Ted would confess to before his execution, but unfortunately,

782
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,320
her remains would also never be located.

783
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,080
And her case is still regarded as a missing person's case as of today.

784
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:50,640
I also think that's a testament to how narcissistic he is as well, that he doesn't remember.

785
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,640
Yeah.

786
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,800
Like he doesn't, he's just like, oh no, I just don't, I don't really remember where

787
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:54,800
she is.

788
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:55,800
It's already-

789
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,280
Either he's withholding it on purpose or he legitimately doesn't give a shit about

790
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,280
these things for them.

791
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,280
Yeah, of course not.

792
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,280
Of course not.

793
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,000
There's plenty of killers that we have covered that know every single detail about everything

794
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,520
they've done to somebody.

795
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:14,080
And that's the thing, like you see later on that like he does know every single detail

796
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,960
about the ones that he's willing to confess to.

797
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,320
But some of them he's like, I don't know.

798
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,320
I don't know, figure it out.

799
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,520
So like, I think he might be right, like he's withholding information.

800
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,280
In early August of 1975, Ted would become baptized at the church of Jesus of Latter-day

801
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Saints.

802
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,760
Although he was not an active participant in the services and was known to ignore most

803
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:34,760
church restrictions.

804
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,240
I had to put that in there.

805
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,240
Jesus.

806
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,120
Like, you're gonna get just, just get baptized?

807
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,120
Sure, fuck you.

808
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Yeah, because now you can say that.

809
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,120
I've been baptized.

810
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,120
Yeah, literally.

811
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,120
I'm a good Christian.

812
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,600
It's so annoying.

813
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,160
Meanwhile, in Washington state, investigators were scratching their heads trying to figure

814
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,960
out who this mystery man was that was continually-

815
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:53,960
His name is Ted.

816
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:54,960
Ducting and murdering women.

817
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:55,960
Yeah.

818
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,400
In fact, there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence that they decided to compile a

819
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:00,400
database.

820
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Oh.

821
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:07,040
They used the King County's payroll computer, known as a quote, huge, primitive machine,

822
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,920
in order to maintain everything needed.

823
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,640
After inputting all of the data they had compiled, including classmates and acquaintances of each

824
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:20,640
victim, Volkswagen owners named Ted, known sex offenders, and so on, they queried the

825
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,360
computer for any coincidences.

826
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,400
Out of thousands of names, 26 turned up on four lists.

827
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,280
One of these names was Theodore Robert Bundy.

828
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,280
So he's now one of 26 suspects, like prime suspects in this case.

829
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,640
Just based off of that.

830
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,440
On top of this, detectives had also manually compiled a list of their 100 best suspects,

831
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,000
excuse me, and Ted was on this list as well.

832
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,560
So they were like cross-referencing?

833
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:46,560
Yeah.

834
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,440
Like essentially evidence that they might already have and also this, this, uh, the

835
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,720
leads, like the calls.

836
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:53,720
Yeah.

837
00:34:53,720 --> 00:34:58,160
According to investigators, Ted was quote, literally at the top of the pile, end quote,

838
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,880
of suspects when they got the word that he had been arrested in Utah.

839
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,880
For what?

840
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,760
Dun dun dun.

841
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:11,040
On August 16th, 1975, Ted Bundy was arrested by Utah Highway Patrol officer Bob Hayward

842
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,040
in Granger, Utah.

843
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,760
Hayward had observed Ted cruising in a residential area in a light-colored Volkswagen Beetle

844
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,800
during the early morning hours.

845
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,320
And when he pulled out to follow him, Ted led the area attempting to avoid being pulled

846
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:25,560
over.

847
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,280
Ted would eventually stop after the officer flashed his lights.

848
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,920
Hayward would immediately notice the front passenger seat had been removed and placed

849
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,520
on their rear seats.

850
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,160
And this was worrisome enough to conduct a search of the vehicle.

851
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,960
Since the officer began the search, he found a ski mask, a second mask made from pantyhose,

852
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:51,480
a crowbar, handcuffs, trash bags, a coil of rope, an ice pick, and other items he immediately

853
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,160
recognized as being burglary tools.

854
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,400
It's a kill kit.

855
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,600
It's 130% a kill kit.

856
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,280
Yeah, for sure.

857
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,800
When questioned about the items, Ted stated that the ski mask was of course for skiing.

858
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,320
And he had found the handcuffs in a dumpster, and the rest were just common household items

859
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,320
in his car.

860
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,840
Oh, you mean these common household items in my car?

861
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,640
Not in the house in my car.

862
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,480
None of the household items.

863
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,480
What?

864
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,040
Yeah, their normal car items.

865
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,040
Car hold items.

866
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,240
God, this is stupid.

867
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:27,320
See he thinks he's like outsparting everyone by saying things like that, and then they're

868
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,840
like, what the, what?

869
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:29,840
What is that?

870
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:30,840
Yeah.

871
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,840
Which of course it's for skiing.

872
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:32,840
Yeah.

873
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:33,840
Ice picking.

874
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,360
Yeah, picking ice.

875
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Picking ice.

876
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,480
So the items were just far too suspicious for the officer to just let him go.

877
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,640
So he would bring Ted down to the station to get a deeper understanding of what was

878
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:44,640
actually going on.

879
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,400
What all this shit was in his car?

880
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,120
Yeah, he's like, what the fuck?

881
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,960
Upon hearing the news, Detective Jerry Thompson remembered a similar suspect and car description

882
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,480
from the November 1974 kidnapping of Carol DeRanche, the survivor.

883
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,760
He had also remembered Ted Bundy's name from one phone call that Liz made a month after

884
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,600
that kidnapping.

885
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,480
Because of these suspicions, police were able to get a warrant to search Ted's apartment,

886
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,720
maybe of course other evidence like, you know, the household items in his car.

887
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:18,360
In doing so, in the apartment, they located a quote guide to Colorado ski resorts page

888
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,600
with a check mark by the Wildwood Inn.

889
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,040
What does that mean?

890
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,760
That's the hotel that the woman was abducted from her fiance.

891
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,200
But he like checked it, like, that was one of my locations.

892
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,000
I don't know if he checked it, like that's my plan or like already been there.

893
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,000
Already been there, done that?

894
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,440
Already done that, exactly.

895
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,400
They also found a brochure that advertised the play in Bountiful where Deborah Kent disappeared

896
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,680
from the auditorium.

897
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:43,680
That's creepy.

898
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,000
Although all of these things were extremely suspicious, they were still mostly circumstantial

899
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,680
and police did not have any substantial evidence to detain Ted.

900
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,000
Because of this, they were forced to release him later that day.

901
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,000
I know.

902
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,840
But that's all they got in the apartment?

903
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,760
Ted would later admit that during the search of his apartment, detectives had clearly overlooked

904
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:11,480
a hidden collection of Polaroid photographs of each one of his victims.

905
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Some fucking search he did there.

906
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,600
Oh God.

907
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,840
Yeah, way to be thorough.

908
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,240
Those are worse than the Donner House is.

909
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,080
Because there's like photos of all of the missing women in my apartment.

910
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,600
It's just ridiculous.

911
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,200
So Ted was so freaked out about this run-in with the law that he immediately burned all

912
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,000
of the photos when he came back to his apartment.

913
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,000
Oh damn, okay.

914
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,080
So the only reason they know that exists is because he said something about it.

915
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Although they did not have enough evidence to arrest him, Salt Lake City Police did put

916
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,880
Ted on a 24-hour surveillance watch following this.

917
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,880
Detective Thompson also flew to Seattle with two other detectives to interview Liz further

918
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,300
on her relationship with Ted.

919
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:54,240
She informed them that in the years prior to Ted's move to Utah, she had discovered

920
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,920
objects that she, quote, couldn't understand in her house and in Ted's apartment.

921
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:59,920
Like what?

922
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:05,420
Among these items, surgical gloves, a sack full of women's clothing, crutches, and a

923
00:39:05,420 --> 00:39:09,720
meat cleaver that was never used for cooking.

924
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:10,720
It's a prized meat cleaver.

925
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,480
Yeah, it's just in my car.

926
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,440
I have gloves.

927
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:15,440
Surgical gloves?

928
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,440
I have.

929
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,040
Okay, well I have surgical gloves too for my piercings, but that's not that suspicious.

930
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,040
A sack full of women's clothing that aren't hers.

931
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,040
I used them to dye my hair.

932
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,040
Yeah.

933
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,040
A sack of women's clothing is weird.

934
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,040
A meat cleaver that's never used.

935
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,480
Although I dated a guy who had high heels in his closet.

936
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,520
Maybe it wasn't, hopefully it wasn't Ted.

937
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,520
Was it Ted?

938
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:31,520
It's any, any.

939
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,480
Liz would also inform detectives that Ted was continuously in debt and that she had

940
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,800
suspected that he had stolen almost everything of value that he possessed.

941
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,360
She explained that one time he came home with a new TV and a new stereo and she decided

942
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,200
to confront him about where he got them from.

943
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,200
Yeah.

944
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,800
And his response to her was, quote, if you tell anyone, I'll break your fucking neck.

945
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,800
Yeah.

946
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,480
You got to run, girl.

947
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:58,480
No, for real.

948
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,480
You got to run.

949
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,960
That's so scary.

950
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,080
But like that explains like probably why she wanted it.

951
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,360
Like she was like, I can't break up with this fucking guy.

952
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,360
Yeah.

953
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,360
You will kill me.

954
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,260
That's so scary.

955
00:40:10,260 --> 00:40:15,880
She also relayed that Ted would become, quote, very upset whenever she considered cutting

956
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:22,240
her hair off, which was worn long, dark and in a middle part.

957
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,880
Long, dark and in a middle part?

958
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,680
That's like all of his victims.

959
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,880
So she was like, she could never cut her hair.

960
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,880
Because he wanted her to look like his victims.

961
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,880
He would get upset.

962
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:32,880
That's so creepy.

963
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,880
And obviously that's in hindsight.

964
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,880
So was he doing it for her?

965
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,280
Like he's doing it for her or that's why he's attracted to her?

966
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,880
I think that's why he's attracted to her.

967
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,880
Could you imagine that?

968
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:40,880
Could you imagine that?

969
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,880
Could you imagine being in a relationship like that or the, the significant others like

970
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,880
you better never cut your hair.

971
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,280
Imagine finding out the similarity of all of his victims seeing, oh my god, all of those

972
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,880
girls look like me.

973
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,880
Like when is he going to kill me?

974
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,880
So fucking creepy.

975
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Do you think that he didn't kill her because she had kids?

976
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,880
Because I feel like none of his other victims had children.

977
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:01,880
Oh.

978
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,880
No, I thought at least one did.

979
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,880
Or maybe she did.

980
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:04,880
I'm sorry.

981
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,880
The, the, the, um, not Denise on the beach, but uh, was it Denise on the beach?

982
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:11,880
With the auto.

983
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,880
Her last name was auto.

984
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:13,880
Jane?

985
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,880
Jane Ottz?

986
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,880
Jane Ottz?

987
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:16,880
Yeah.

988
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:17,880
The, didn't she have kids?

989
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:18,880
I don't think so.

990
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,880
She was married and her husband were just going through separation.

991
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,880
I don't think she had a kid though.

992
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,880
I'm going to sound silly if she did, but.

993
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,880
Yeah.

994
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,880
Either way, that was just, I mean he has so many victims it's kind of hard to, right,

995
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,880
you know, oh, obviously I have them all written down.

996
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,880
That is interesting.

997
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:31,880
Yeah.

998
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:32,880
I don't know.

999
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,880
But again, I do feel like it's a beard situation.

1000
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,880
Oh, for sure.

1001
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,880
I wonder if she was financially, uh, well off.

1002
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,880
I'm sure she was.

1003
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,880
And that's why he was, yeah.

1004
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,520
And so again, and during this interview as well, Liz would continue by telling detectives

1005
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,960
that she would sometimes be woken up in the middle of the night by Ted to find him under

1006
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,880
their sheets with a flashlight.

1007
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,880
What?

1008
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,880
Seemingly examining like her body.

1009
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:54,880
Yeah.

1010
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,880
Like she'd be asleep and be like, what the hell?

1011
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,880
Like what the fuck is that light?

1012
00:41:58,880 --> 00:41:59,880
What the fuck is that light?

1013
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,880
It's just rummaging around underneath the sheets.

1014
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:03,880
Yeah.

1015
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:04,880
That's fucking creepy.

1016
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:11,680
She said he also kept a lug wrench in the trunk of her car, another Volkswagen Beetle,

1017
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,880
which he would often borrow from her.

1018
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,880
Do you think he, oh, do you think he used her car?

1019
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,680
I don't, I think he might have, he said his reasoning for borrowing her car was quote

1020
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,200
for protection.

1021
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,480
I think her car was a similar color to his, which is why all the eyewitness testimonies

1022
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,880
are like off the color.

1023
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:27,880
It varies.

1024
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,880
Because his was yellow.

1025
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,440
I think the same thing with Berkowitz because I think Berkowitz had like a dark brown.

1026
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,640
And then I think the brothers, remember the brothers who suspected of also participating

1027
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,440
in this, they had a similar model that was tan.

1028
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,440
Yeah.

1029
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Yeah, I think that's, yeah, you're right.

1030
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,440
I do remember you talking about that.

1031
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,520
The car, John Carver, I think it was.

1032
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,520
After the interview concluded, the detectives confirmed that Ted had not been with Liz on

1033
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,160
any of the nights of any of the disappearances in the Pacific Northwest, nor on the day that

1034
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,000
the women were abducted from the lake.

1035
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,520
So no alibi.

1036
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,040
No alibi for him and no blame for her.

1037
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,040
Right.

1038
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,040
You know, any kind of help.

1039
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,920
Did they suspect it because of the, because of the Volkswagen that she had?

1040
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,240
Yeah, I don't know if they suspected her at all, but they were able to determine like,

1041
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:12,040
okay, she really like has nothing to do with it.

1042
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,040
She was just trying to help.

1043
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,040
Yeah.

1044
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,160
Sometime after this interview, Liz was interviewed yet again by Seattle homicide detective, Kathy

1045
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,440
McChesney.

1046
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,440
And during this interview, she would find out about the existence of Diane Edwards and

1047
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,200
her brief engagement to Ted around Christmas of 1973.

1048
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,200
Of course, right.

1049
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Cause the police are going to use anything.

1050
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,880
They're going to like, he's not even faithful to you.

1051
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,380
You might as well just tell us everything.

1052
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:38,280
In September, Ted sold his Volkswagen Beetle to a teenager, but Utah police would quickly

1053
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,280
impound it and FBI technicians would dismantle and search it.

1054
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,280
That poor kid.

1055
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:44,280
He's like, I just need to fix the car.

1056
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,680
No, I just paid 50 bucks for this car.

1057
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,120
During this search, they found hairs matching samples obtained from Karen Campbell's body.

1058
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,600
I just got heaps because I was thinking about being a teenager and like, you think you're

1059
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,400
getting a great deal on this car, but plenty of people have been murdered inside of it.

1060
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,640
Yeah, that's really, that's really terrifying.

1061
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:07,080
They would also later identify hair strands, quote, microscopically indistinguishable from

1062
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,320
those of Melissa Smith and Carol Derange in the same car.

1063
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,640
So it's like, okay, this is clearly one a billion him.

1064
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,640
Yeah.

1065
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,680
FBI lab specialist Robert Neil concluded that the presence of hair strands in one car matching

1066
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:24,080
three different victims who would never, who have never met each other would be considered,

1067
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,760
quote, a coincidence of mind boggling rarity.

1068
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:28,760
I would.

1069
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:29,760
Yeah, they would have to be astronomical.

1070
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,280
That is such a brilliant way to put that.

1071
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,280
It is.

1072
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:33,280
It's like these women have never met each other.

1073
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,280
They wouldn't know each other.

1074
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,280
How the fuck would they evolve in the same car?

1075
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:36,280
Yeah.

1076
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,080
It's not like, it's not like he was driving, you know, four girls around or whatever.

1077
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,080
Yeah.

1078
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,080
They don't know each other.

1079
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,800
On October 2nd, 1975, detectives put Ted into a lineup for survivors and witnesses to

1080
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,440
look through.

1081
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,320
Carol Derange immediately identified Ted as, quote, Officer Roseland and witnesses from

1082
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:58,280
Bountiful recognized him as the stranger at the Vymont High School auditorium.

1083
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,720
There was not enough evidence present to link him to Deborah Kent, whose body was never

1084
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,680
found, but there was way more than enough evidence to charge him with aggravated kidnapping

1085
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,120
and attempted criminal assault in the case of Carol Derange.

1086
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:17,160
Shortly after being arrested, he would be freed on a $15,000 bail paid for by his parents.

1087
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,560
He hasn't talked to him.

1088
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,560
How many fucking years?

1089
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,560
I was like, he has parents?

1090
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,560
His grandparents.

1091
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:23,560
Sorry.

1092
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:24,560
His grandparents.

1093
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,560
This would be the equivalent.

1094
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,560
You know, I did the fucking conversion rate.

1095
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:28,560
I'm $793 today.

1096
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,240
I feel like that's not a lot.

1097
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:33,680
If you've been convicted, like you're not convicted, but have been arrested in suspicion

1098
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,320
of murder, even though one-

1099
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,400
They only arrested him on the kidnapping, aggravated kidnapping and criminal assault

1100
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,400
on Carol.

1101
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,400
I'm so sorry.

1102
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:42,400
Yes.

1103
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:43,400
They just have suspicions of the other stuff.

1104
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,600
Well, and they're collecting evidence so they can't really slap him with it yet.

1105
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:45,800
And also they're like, fuck it.

1106
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:51,000
Let's get him behind bars for something instead of waiting until we have all this evidence.

1107
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,920
Ted would spend most of his time between indictment and trial in Seattle living in Liz's house.

1108
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,920
God, this is why.

1109
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,720
I know, she's probably fucking petrified.

1110
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,680
Seattle police had insufficient evidence to charge him in the Pacific Northwest murders,

1111
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,800
but would continue to keep him under close surveillance.

1112
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,880
Do you feel like she would have felt safer knowing that at least he's probably not going

1113
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,680
to do anything because they already suspect him of all these crimes?

1114
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:15,680
Yeah, maybe.

1115
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,160
But you're still living with him.

1116
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,280
Yeah, she would also actually later recall around this time, quote, when Ted and I stepped

1117
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,800
out on the porch to go somewhere, so many unmarked police cars started up that it sounded

1118
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,800
like the beginning of the ND500.

1119
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,800
That's a hilarious quote.

1120
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,800
That is a great metaphor.

1121
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:33,800
I love that.

1122
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:39,800
Go Liz.

1123
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,640
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1124
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1125
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:51,720
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1126
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1127
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1128
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1129
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:12,040
In November, the three main men investigating Ted, so that's Jerry Thompson from Utah,

1130
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,400
Robert Keppel from Washington, and Michael Fisher from Colorado, all three of them met

1131
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,160
in Aspen, Colorado to exchange notes.

1132
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,960
Here they would exchange information with each other, as well as 30 detectives and prosecutors

1133
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,840
from five different states.

1134
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,840
So many.

1135
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,840
How do you fit everybody in a room?

1136
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:30,840
Right.

1137
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:31,840
It's like a whole task force.

1138
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,520
While most officials left the meeting convinced that Ted was the murderer they've been looking

1139
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,080
for this whole time, they also agreed that more hard evidence would absolutely be needed

1140
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,360
before he could be charged with any of the murders.

1141
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:48,440
In February of 1976, Ted stood trial for the Carol Derange kidnapping.

1142
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,400
His attorney, John O'Connell, advised Ted to waive his right to a jury due to the negative

1143
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,720
publicity surrounding the case.

1144
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:58,960
Ted would agree, and after a four-day bench trial and a weekend of deliberation, Judge

1145
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:04,000
Stuart Hanson Jr. would find Ted Bundy guilty of kidnapping and assault.

1146
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:10,640
He would be sentenced to one to 15 years in June of 1976 in the Utah State Prison.

1147
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,000
Four months into his sentence, Ted was found hiding in the bushes in the prison yard carrying

1148
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:21,480
a quote, escape kit, which included roadmaps, airline schedules, and a social security card.

1149
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,680
This guy loves to have kits.

1150
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:24,800
Seriously.

1151
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,400
Due to this attempted escape, Ted would spend several weeks in solitary confinement.

1152
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,920
I'm hiding behind a bush.

1153
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,120
It's so funny.

1154
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,120
With his little escape kit.

1155
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,120
He's like alligator eyes.

1156
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,120
Yeah.

1157
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,440
I think of that George Clooney gif where he's like behind the bushes.

1158
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,960
Later that month, Colorado authorities had finally come up with enough evidence to charge

1159
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,040
Ted with the murder of Karen Campbell.

1160
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,520
After a period of resistance at the new charge, Ted would waive extradition proceedings and

1161
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,760
was transferred to Aspen in January of 1977 to face charges.

1162
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,640
On June 7th of 1977, Ted was transported 40 miles from the Garfield County Jail in Glenwood

1163
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,160
Springs to Pitkin County Courthouse in Aspen for a preliminary hearing.

1164
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,720
This time, he had elected to serve as his own attorney because you know he's been to

1165
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:10,720
law school.

1166
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:12,080
He's so smart.

1167
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,720
And due to the fact that he was representing himself, the judge allowed his handcuffs and

1168
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:18,440
leg shackles to be removed.

1169
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,000
I think he's also wearing a suit, isn't he?

1170
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,920
Oh yeah, he's like dressed for the Nines.

1171
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,120
Just to the Nines.

1172
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,000
No handcuffs, anything.

1173
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,000
Conference.

1174
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,800
During a recess in the court, Ted would ask if he could visit the courthouse's law library

1175
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,600
to do further research on the case.

1176
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,720
Okay, that makes sense because he's representing himself.

1177
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:37,360
Why wouldn't he be able to, right?

1178
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,400
Ted would utilize this opportunity to shield himself from guards view behind a bookcase

1179
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:47,240
where he would then open the window and jump to the ground for the second story, injuring

1180
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:51,360
his right ankle badly as he landed.

1181
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,120
Ted would take off the entire outer layer of his clothes and limp through Aspen.

1182
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,080
God, what an idiot.

1183
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,280
Like why wouldn't anybody watch him?

1184
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,840
They were watching but he like hid behind a bookcase and then like jumped out the window.

1185
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,520
He needed to slip out the window.

1186
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,080
Although roadblocks were already being set up on its outskirts, Ted would evade them

1187
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,200
and hike south onto Aspen Mountain.

1188
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:15,720
So he like got away away.

1189
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:16,720
Oh yeah.

1190
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,920
Nearing the summit, he would break into a hunting cabin and steal food, clothing, and

1191
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:21,920
a rifle.

1192
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:22,920
Great.

1193
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,440
Does it Ted Kuzmski's cabin?

1194
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,800
Who knows.

1195
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,840
So again, he has a fucking rifle.

1196
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,320
The next day he would leave the cabin and continue south towards the town of Crested Butte,

1197
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,080
but would actually become lost in the forest along the way.

1198
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:37,800
Yeah, because he's a lawyer.

1199
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,160
He's not a survivalist.

1200
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,720
For two days he would wander around aimlessly on the mountain, actually passing by two different

1201
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:47,080
trails that would have led him to his intended destination.

1202
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:48,080
God.

1203
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,080
To follow them.

1204
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,080
Ugh.

1205
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,400
Where's that map he had?

1206
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:52,400
Yeah, right.

1207
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:53,400
I got him a map.

1208
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:59,000
On June 10th, Ted broke into a camping trailer on Maroon Lake about 10 miles south of Aspen

1209
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,120
and would steal food and a ski parka.

1210
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:02,120
This is only three days after.

1211
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,720
He made like 10 miles.

1212
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:08,800
I can't even, I don't know why I didn't know this about Ted Bundy.

1213
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:14,520
I mean, I feel like I knew that he had escaped through a window of some kind, but I didn't

1214
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,240
realize that he was gone for like three days.

1215
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:18,240
No, he was gone for more.

1216
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:19,240
What?

1217
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:20,240
Yeah.

1218
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:23,560
So after stealing this food and parka, instead of continuing south, he would actually walk

1219
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:28,200
back north again towards Aspen, still being able to elude roadblocks and search parties

1220
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,200
along the way.

1221
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,200
He's like a fucking chameleon.

1222
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,000
Yeah, they probably think he's in Puerto Rico or Canada by now.

1223
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Yeah.

1224
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,320
Three days later, Ted would steal a car on the property of the Aspen golf course and

1225
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:44,920
drive back into Aspen, cold, sleep deprived, and in constant pain from his broken ankle.

1226
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:45,920
It was like broken broken.

1227
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,520
I think it was like a really bad sprain.

1228
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Yeah.

1229
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:49,520
He didn't break it, but it was like really painful.

1230
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,520
Damn.

1231
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,520
Ted would be so disoriented in fact that it would cause him to swerve the vehicle extremely

1232
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,120
noticeably in the city and catch the attention of local police.

1233
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:59,120
No!

1234
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:00,120
So good.

1235
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,120
Oh my gosh.

1236
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:02,120
This is like a, this is like a.

1237
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,120
Movie.

1238
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:04,120
Yeah, it's a movie.

1239
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,280
Ted would be pulled over after being a fugitive for only six days.

1240
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,520
Found in this vehicle were maps of the mountain area around Aspen.

1241
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,360
Hilarious, because he got lost.

1242
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,440
The prosecutors are actually currently using that map to demonstrate the location of Karen's

1243
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,440
body.

1244
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:20,440
Oh, that's crazy.

1245
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,680
So they kind of think he was like going to like find it.

1246
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,760
Unfortunately, because Ted was acting as his own attorney, he did have rights of discovery,

1247
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,200
so he was allowed to have these in his possession, so he couldn't really get in trouble.

1248
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,080
Although authorities figured that the fact that he had these maps with him meant that

1249
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:41,600
his escape was planned and not just like an option of opportunity.

1250
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,400
Ted would return to jail in Glenwood Springs, but he would ignore the advice of friends

1251
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,000
and legal advisors to stay put and remain calm.

1252
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,200
In fact, they indicated kind of that the case against him was like pretty weak.

1253
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,760
So if he had just like shut the fuck up and like waited, he might have been able to get

1254
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,800
a really low sentence or even be acquitted.

1255
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,520
It would have been all circumstantial.

1256
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:05,400
Because they were trying to say like significant bits of evidence were ruled as like inadmissible.

1257
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,120
So MacCowd and Ainsworth were noted later as saying about this, quote, a more rational

1258
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:14,120
defendant might have realized that he still had a good chance of acquittal and that beating

1259
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:19,040
the murder charge in Colorado would probably have dissuaded other prosecutors with as little

1260
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,120
as a year and a half to serve on the Derange conviction had Ted preserved, he could have

1261
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,120
been a free man.

1262
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,800
Yeah, he's a bad lawyer.

1263
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,640
Just like he's as bad a lawyer as he is a survivalist.

1264
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:29,640
He's fucking arrogant.

1265
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:30,720
He can't keep his fucking mouth shut.

1266
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:33,880
He wants to continue to talk and he's going to talk himself into getting like that's like

1267
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,120
someone that talks himself into getting arrested when they just get pulled over for speeding.

1268
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,120
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1269
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,800
And he could totally yeah, he could have he's using his powers for bad.

1270
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:42,800
Right.

1271
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,760
It's like he wants to push the issue because he wants to beat beat it, you know, and he

1272
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,760
wants attention.

1273
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:51,280
So rather than just chill the fuck out like I wrote, Ted decided that he was going to

1274
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,280
assemble a new escape plan.

1275
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:59,160
He was somehow able to obtain a map of the Garfield County jail as well as a hacksaw

1276
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,160
blade from another inmate.

1277
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,760
So this is not really a secure jail.

1278
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,160
He would also somehow accumulate about $500 in cash.

1279
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,760
I don't know if it was like to take with him or to like maybe bribe the cards or something.

1280
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,280
Yeah, probably stole it from Liz.

1281
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,280
Yeah.

1282
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,880
During the evenings while other prisoners were showering, Ted would work on sawing a

1283
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:22,520
hole about one square foot apart like in diameter, excuse me, between the steel reinforcing

1284
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,640
bars and his cell's ceiling.

1285
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:30,760
He would actually lose 35 pounds over a period of time in order to fit through the crawl

1286
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:31,760
space.

1287
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:32,760
That's creepy.

1288
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,680
That reminds me of that Exiles episode.

1289
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,400
He was actually able to work his way through the crawl space and explore it multiple times

1290
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,160
to like get the lay of the land before he even tried to escape.

1291
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:44,160
Did he draw a map?

1292
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:45,160
He seems map obsessed.

1293
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:46,160
Oh yeah.

1294
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,160
It's like prison break literally.

1295
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,160
The map's like on his tattoos.

1296
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,160
Yeah.

1297
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,840
Even though there are multiple reports by a prison informant about noise coming from

1298
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,960
the ceiling, they were never investigated.

1299
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:55,960
Yeah.

1300
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:56,960
Like they're like, oh yeah, you're crazy.

1301
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,160
Pest control out here for those raccoons.

1302
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:00,160
Exactly.

1303
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,320
So stupid.

1304
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,720
By late 1977, Ted was still working on his escape plan, but he was also still working

1305
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:07,360
on his hearing.

1306
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,360
He filed for a motion for a change of venue to Denver from Aspen.

1307
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:12,360
Sorry, Aspen?

1308
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:13,360
Vale?

1309
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:14,360
Yeah.

1310
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,640
I think it was Aspen that they were having the hearing though because that's where he

1311
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:17,640
escaped from.

1312
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:18,640
Yeah.

1313
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:24,400
On December 23rd, the Aspen trial judge granted the request, but not to Denver and said Colorado

1314
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:25,400
Springs.

1315
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,400
Okay.

1316
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,360
Juries in Colorado Springs had historically been hostile towards murder suspects, so Ted

1317
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,800
was not looking forward to this.

1318
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,600
It's like, I'm great.

1319
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,520
On the 9th of December 30th, 1977, most of the jail staff was out on Christmas break

1320
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,000
and nonviolent prisoners were even out on furlough to be with their families.

1321
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,240
Ted piled books and a bunch of papers in his bed, covered them with a blanket to emulate

1322
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,800
his sleeping body, and climbed back into the crawl space he had been working on for months.

1323
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,040
Like Shawshank style?

1324
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,040
Yes.

1325
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,720
He would break into the apartment of the chief jailer.

1326
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:00,400
He had like a combined apartment, combined, conjoined.

1327
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,560
So this guy was actually out as well for the evening to spend time with his wife.

1328
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,240
So Ted would utilize this opportunity to steal some clothing from him and change into street

1329
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:11,080
clothes and just walk right out the fucking front door to his freedom because he was no

1330
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,080
longer in prison.

1331
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,080
The jail?

1332
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,080
Yes.

1333
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:15,080
Because he was no longer in prison clothes.

1334
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,040
They were just like, have a nice night, sir.

1335
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,520
They didn't recognize him, I guess.

1336
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,240
Maybe put a hoodie on or something.

1337
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:21,240
I don't know.

1338
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:22,240
Yeah.

1339
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:23,240
Just walked out.

1340
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:24,240
Literally, yeah.

1341
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:25,240
I mean, this was before you needed like visitors badges and shit, you know.

1342
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:26,240
Yeah.

1343
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:27,240
Yeah.

1344
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:28,240
Wow.

1345
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,240
So he's out yet again.

1346
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:30,240
Again.

1347
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:34,160
And after stealing a car yet again, Ted would drive eastward out of Glenwood Springs, but

1348
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,760
the car would actually break down in the mountains on Interstate 70.

1349
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:38,760
I don't know.

1350
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,160
A passing motorist came across Ted, remember he's in street clothes, and offered to give

1351
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,280
him a ride to Vale, Colorado.

1352
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,400
So about 60 miles east.

1353
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:52,680
From here, Ted would catch a bus to Denver and even boarded a morning flight to Chicago.

1354
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:53,680
What?

1355
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,160
Like how fucking wild was that?

1356
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,920
That you could just have an escaped felid board a plane because you didn't have like

1357
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,920
TSA or anything.

1358
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,280
Like it's ridiculous.

1359
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,280
God.

1360
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,800
So he had like a passport or an ID or something.

1361
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,320
Remember he had that social security card?

1362
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,320
I don't know if he still had that.

1363
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,320
I don't know.

1364
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,320
I don't know.

1365
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,320
But you're Ted fucking Bundy.

1366
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:16,320
I don't even think-

1367
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,520
I don't even think you needed an ID to get on a plane.

1368
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,320
I mean this is like 70 fucking seven.

1369
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,320
Yeah, what is DB Cooper?

1370
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,320
I don't know.

1371
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,720
Anyway, it's just wild that he was like able to fucking do that.

1372
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,120
So he's honestly in Chicago.

1373
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,560
Just like, you know, on the flight, just like enjoying a drink.

1374
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:32,560
Just Ted Bundy.

1375
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,640
Back in Glenwood Springs, the jail skeleton crew did not even discover that he had escaped

1376
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,640
until the following day at noon, more than 17 hours later.

1377
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,160
By this time, he was already in Chicago.

1378
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:44,640
It's like he's already got an apartment.

1379
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,840
He's already got a family, kids.

1380
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,680
From Chicago, Ted would travel by train to Ann Arbor, Michigan, where he was present

1381
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:56,160
at a local tavern on January 2nd, according to eyewitnesses.

1382
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:00,280
Five days later, he stole another car and drove south to Atlanta, Georgia, where he

1383
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:05,560
then boarded a bus and arrived in Tallahassee, Florida on the morning of January 8th.

1384
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:10,000
He stayed for one night at a hotel and then rented a room under the alias of Chris Hagan

1385
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,760
at a boarding house near Florida State University.

1386
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,240
He doesn't even look like a Chris.

1387
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,840
No, he doesn't.

1388
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,120
Ted stated later that he had initially wanted to find a legitimate job and refrain from further

1389
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,520
criminal activity at this point, knowing that he could probably like stay out and remain

1390
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:29,160
free and undetected in Florida as long as he didn't attract the attention of police.

1391
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,880
But when he went to apply at a job at a construction site, he was asked to produce identification

1392
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:34,880
and he didn't have any.

1393
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,960
So he was like, fuck it, I'm just going to scrap this, go back to fucking danger.

1394
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,560
Yeah, I'm going to go back to mail.

1395
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,000
Just answer your question, he didn't have an IT.

1396
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,960
So he threw his resume away and reverted to his old habits of stealing money and credit

1397
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,840
cards from unsuspecting women at the grocery store, shoplifting, you know, the huge.

1398
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,880
And on January 15th, 1978, one week after Ted arrived in Tallahassee, he would gain

1399
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,580
access to FSU's Kai Omega Sorority House.

1400
00:59:00,580 --> 00:59:04,520
There was actually a faulty locking mechanism on the back door, which Ted took as an opportunity

1401
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,040
to enter.

1402
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:12,760
At about 2.45 a.m., Ted would bludgeon a 21-year-old sorority sister by the name of Margaret Bowman

1403
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:17,680
with a heavy piece of oak firewood as she slept, ultimately crushing her skull and killing

1404
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,040
her.

1405
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,480
He would then garot her with a nylon stocking and ripped her underwear off with such force

1406
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:29,120
that friction burns were actually found on one of her thighs.

1407
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:33,240
After killing Margaret, Ted would walk directly across the hall into the bedroom of 20-year-old

1408
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,040
Lisa Levy.

1409
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:40,320
He would unfortunately then beat her unconscious as well and strangle her, leaving her alive

1410
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,680
but badly injured.

1411
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:47,120
Ted would actually slip up on his lack of leaving evidence in the past at this point.

1412
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:51,880
He would actually bite her on her left butt cheek and actually as well on her nipple,

1413
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:56,640
so there was like a distinct mark that could match his teeth.

1414
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,400
I wanted to do odontology.

1415
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,640
That was like one of the things I wanted to do.

1416
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,280
So it's like matching dental records and bite marks.

1417
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,920
Yeah, I was going to say that's really funny because I actually talk about odontology in

1418
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,920
a minute after the court proceeding.

1419
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,680
I figured it was going there.

1420
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:18,680
So unfortunately after this, Ted would then brutally sexually assault Lisa's body,

1421
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,360
rupturing her internal organs in the process as well.

1422
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,880
He would then move on and go to 20-year-old Kathy Kleiner's room who actually was in

1423
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,320
an adjoining bedroom with Lisa.

1424
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,960
He would brutally attack Kathy as well, breaking her jaw and deeply lacerating her shoulder

1425
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:36,560
in the process.

1426
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:42,000
Lastly, Ted would attack 22-year-old Karen Chandler who would suffer from a concussion,

1427
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,960
broken jaw, a crushed finger, and loss of multiple teeth.

1428
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,240
This is what the fourth victim now needs?

1429
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:49,240
Is one home?

1430
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,240
Or a sorority, I guess?

1431
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:51,240
A sorority house?

1432
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:52,240
Mm-hmm.

1433
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,880
Kathy and Karen would both ultimately survive their attacks for the last two women and

1434
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,280
they would attribute their survival to the fact that there were actually headlights

1435
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,640
from a car outside that were kind of illuminating their bedroom.

1436
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,880
So they believed that since their room was brighter than the others, that your attacker

1437
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,720
got spooked and decided to leave before finishing the job, essentially.

1438
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,120
They weren't wrong as shortly after these attacks, Ted would flee the scene, but not

1439
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,920
before being spotted by another sorority sister by the name of Nita Neary.

1440
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:19,920
Oh, Nita.

1441
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:20,920
She saw him as he was leaving.

1442
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:21,920
Yeah.

1443
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,680
Tallahassee law enforcement would later determine that these four attacks took place in a total

1444
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:31,960
of less than 15 minutes and with an earshot of more than 30 witnesses who heard absolutely

1445
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,560
nothing.

1446
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,720
The amount of rage that he must have had.

1447
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:37,720
15 minutes.

1448
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:39,520
15 minutes to cause all that carnage.

1449
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,760
Right after he's like, I think I'm just gonna get a job and be a nice guy.

1450
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:43,760
You know what I mean?

1451
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:44,760
Madden didn't get my job.

1452
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,080
Oh, you want an ID?

1453
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:47,080
That sucks.

1454
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:48,800
Better go back to fucking murdering people.

1455
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,360
Yeah, exactly.

1456
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,800
Not long after Ted fled the scene, police would arrive and investigate, of course, because

1457
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,120
there was two survivors and a witness.

1458
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,200
Initially, the puncture wound through Lisa's nipple was so hard to determine that police

1459
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,600
actually thought there had been a shooting in this sorority house.

1460
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:05,600
Wow.

1461
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:06,600
Because it was like really deep.

1462
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:07,600
It was deep.

1463
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:08,600
Yeah.

1464
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,680
Lisa would unfortunately succumb to her injury shortly after police arrived and while she

1465
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,080
was en route to the hospital.

1466
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,200
So two deceased two survivors.

1467
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,920
Within an hour after these attacks, Ted would create a makeshift pantyhose mask that he

1468
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,160
wore to disguise his identity.

1469
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,160
He would then make his way to a duplex house that was only eight blocks away.

1470
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:32,760
There, he approached the basement window and climbed through under the cover of darkness.

1471
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:39,840
Inside, Ted came across FSU student Cheryl Thomas asleep in her bed at around 4am.

1472
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:45,080
Ted viciously attacked Cheryl, dislocating her shoulder and fracturing her jaw and skull

1473
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:46,640
in five different places.

1474
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:47,640
Jesus.

1475
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:48,640
I know.

1476
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,840
Cheryl was actually a dance major at FSU and although she would survive her attack,

1477
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,200
she was left with permanent deafness and equilibrium damage that ended her dance career.

1478
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,280
That is so fucking garrishing.

1479
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,360
I would literally like, I would be so fucking like angry.

1480
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,400
During this attack for unknown reasons, Ted actually took his mask off and put it on the

1481
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:09,400
bed.

1482
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:14,360
Luckily, Cheryl's neighbors in the room's adjacent overheard the ruckus and called police

1483
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:20,080
who showed up to find Cheryl lying in her bed very badly injured, but no Ted.

1484
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,280
Because of the mask he left behind though, which contained hairs of his and the semen

1485
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,040
stain that was on the bed, though there was no evidence of sexual assault, it was very

1486
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,520
clear to law enforcement that this was the same attacker from the sorority house.

1487
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,440
I thought this guy was a fucking lawyer.

1488
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:34,600
He's a dummy.

1489
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:35,600
He is.

1490
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:36,600
Dummy.

1491
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:37,600
It's like, do you want to get caught?

1492
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,480
Cause like now you're being a really fucking sloppy.

1493
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:40,480
Yeah.

1494
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:41,480
No, yeah.

1495
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:42,480
I don't know.

1496
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,720
I don't know who the fuck's going to pin me to that.

1497
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,560
Like put me in a connect me to the wherever.

1498
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:52,200
So Sheriff Ken Ketzeris initially expressed a lot of shock and disbelief that the same

1499
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,920
person would strike twice in such a short amount of time.

1500
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:56,640
And so close together.

1501
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:58,640
Yeah, exactly.

1502
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:04,240
A few weeks later on February 8th, Ted would drive 150 miles east to Jacksonville in a stolen

1503
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,240
FSU van.

1504
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,320
Like obvious.

1505
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:09,320
So we can stick with it.

1506
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,080
Like has their mask on the fucking side of the car.

1507
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:16,920
In a parking lot, he came across 14 year old Leslie Parmenter.

1508
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:22,120
Ted would identify himself as quote Richard Burton fire department, but got spooked and

1509
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,240
ran when Leslie's older brother actually arrived and confronted Ted.

1510
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:26,760
And he's like, I'm a real firefighter.

1511
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:27,760
What's up?

1512
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:28,760
Yeah.

1513
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,840
Little did Ted know that Leslie and her son, her brother were also the children of Jacksonville's

1514
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,000
police department's chief of detectives.

1515
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,280
Yeah.

1516
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,000
So they immediately told him obviously.

1517
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,000
That afternoon, Ted would go 60 miles west to Lake City.

1518
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,960
At Lake City Junior High School the following morning, 12 year old Kimberly Diane Leach

1519
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:52,480
was asked to go to her homeroom by a teacher to retrieve a forgotten purse and she would

1520
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,640
never return to class afterward.

1521
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,280
Nearly seven weeks later, after a very intense search, Kimberly's partially mummified remains

1522
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:06,920
were found in a shed near Swannay River State Park, 35 miles northwest of Lake City.

1523
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,560
Unfortunately, forensic experts were able to conclude that Kimberly had been sexually

1524
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,400
assaulted before having her throat cut fatally.

1525
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,560
That is also his youngest victim at 12.

1526
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,640
You think he had another 12 year old?

1527
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,600
Yeah, I'm sorry, one of his youngest victims.

1528
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:26,640
On February 12th, 1978, Ted was struggling to pay his overdue rent payment and was also

1529
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,320
growing very suspicious that the police were closing in on him.

1530
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,760
Due to the suspicions and fears, Ted would steal yet another car and leave Tallahassee

1531
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,800
for good, driving westward across the Florida Panhandle.

1532
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:44,040
Again, this is almost a month after he's escaped, actually more than a month, a month and a

1533
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:45,040
half.

1534
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,600
I wonder if they think he's just still in that area because they already found him once

1535
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:48,600
in that same area.

1536
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:49,600
Yeah, sure.

1537
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:55,680
Three days later, on February 15th, 1978, Ted was stopped by Pensacola police officer

1538
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:57,640
David Lee at around 1 a.m.

1539
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,000
Do you remember when Hillary told us that Ted was arrested in Pensacola?

1540
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,360
Yeah, it's so funny because I was literally just thinking that but I was like, did I imagine

1541
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,640
that or Hillary's right about that?

1542
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,600
So again, stopped by officer David Lee.

1543
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:14,120
David actually only stopped the vehicle because of a once in warrants check.

1544
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,120
They showed him that the Volkswagen Beetle was actually stolen because he had obviously

1545
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:18,120
just stolen the car.

1546
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:19,120
Yeah, and it's a Volkswagen Beetle.

1547
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:20,120
It's just so funny.

1548
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:21,120
It's his favorite.

1549
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,960
I bet he just looks like a cool hippie guy, but also clean cut.

1550
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,840
But those were also super common too.

1551
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,440
Yeah, he might as well just be like rolling around in a bro-rola or something.

1552
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:33,520
Yeah, exactly.

1553
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,120
It's a bro-rola the most common fucking car.

1554
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,880
So David would approach Ted and after some short discussion with him and informed him

1555
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,760
that he was under arrest because again, the car came back stolen.

1556
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,000
Ted would respond by kicking David's legs out from under him and take off running and

1557
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:49,800
like took off running in the opposite direction.

1558
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,800
Yeah, it's like that's embarrassing.

1559
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:52,800
That's embarrassing.

1560
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,800
And like, have you ever like gotten your legs flipped out under you from like running like

1561
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:57,800
that?

1562
01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:58,800
Yeah, scary.

1563
01:06:58,800 --> 01:06:59,800
Like you took off any bad things.

1564
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:00,800
Dead legs you?

1565
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:01,800
Yeah.

1566
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:02,800
Especially we've been drinking just crumbled to the floor.

1567
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:03,800
Sure.

1568
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,320
David would fire two warning shots at Ted and then begin to chase him and eventually

1569
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,680
caught up to and tackled Ted to the ground.

1570
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,680
David and Ted were struggling over David's gun, but thankfully David was able to subdue

1571
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,080
and arrest Ted.

1572
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:22,080
After searching the stolen vehicle, police discovered three sets of IDs belonging to

1573
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:27,160
female FSU students, 21 stolen credit cards and a stolen TV set.

1574
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:28,840
They weren't the sorority girl ones though.

1575
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,000
Were they the IDs?

1576
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,520
Yeah, I think so.

1577
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:32,520
The students?

1578
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,840
Well, not the sorority girls though.

1579
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:35,840
Not the ones that he...

1580
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:36,840
I didn't say.

1581
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:37,840
That he is hacked.

1582
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:38,840
I mean, I assume it might be.

1583
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,320
But either way, it's fucking creepy.

1584
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:41,320
Yeah.

1585
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:42,800
Like clearly getting into people's bedrooms and shit.

1586
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:43,800
Yeah.

1587
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,440
Or it might have been someone, you know, he said he was pickpocketing like wallets and

1588
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,120
stuff in the grocery store and even that.

1589
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:55,200
Also found in the car were a pair of plaid slacks and dark rimmed, non-prescription glasses.

1590
01:07:55,200 --> 01:08:01,120
Later identified as the disguise worn by Richard Burton, fire department, Jacksonville.

1591
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:02,840
Slacks?

1592
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,560
I have plaid slacks, don't judge.

1593
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:08,640
Yeah, when like, well, what color are they?

1594
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,120
They're like gray and pink.

1595
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:12,120
That's kind of cute.

1596
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,120
They are cute.

1597
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:14,120
They're like legging slacks.

1598
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:15,120
They're like 70s though.

1599
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:20,400
Like if you're wearing plaid slacks, you're probably going like golfing or something.

1600
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:21,400
Yeah, that's me.

1601
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:22,400
Yeah, that's me.

1602
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,240
Definitely not at me.

1603
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:30,320
As David transported Ted to jail, he was completely unaware that he had just arrested one of the

1604
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:34,600
FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives.

1605
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:39,840
Ted was noted as saying to David during this car ride, quote, I wish you had killed me.

1606
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:40,840
Yeah.

1607
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,400
Who was that that we did a case on that and somebody's like, just kill me?

1608
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:46,800
You should have just killed me.

1609
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,160
You should have just killed me.

1610
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:53,200
Being arrested in Florida, Ted would stand trial in Miami for the Kaio Mega homicides

1611
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,480
and assaults in June of 1979.

1612
01:08:56,480 --> 01:09:01,640
The trial was actually covered by nearly 250 reporters from five different continents,

1613
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,360
and this was the first to be televised nationally in the United States.

1614
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:05,360
I believe it.

1615
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:06,360
I believe it.

1616
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:10,880
Despite having about five court appointed attorneys, Ted once again insisted that he

1617
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:11,880
handle his own defense.

1618
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:12,880
I got this.

1619
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:13,880
I got this.

1620
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,200
I don't know anything about DNA, but I got this.

1621
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:20,920
One of his assistant attorneys, Paulie Nelson, would later write that from the beginning,

1622
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:27,920
quote, sabotage the entire defense effort out of spite, distrust, and grandiose delusion.

1623
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,440
Ted was facing murder charges with a possible death sentence, and all that mattered to him

1624
01:09:32,440 --> 01:09:35,960
apparently was that he be in charge, end quote.

1625
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:36,960
And he looks good.

1626
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:45,120
She's like, he didn't care about like doing a good job like, right, defending himself.

1627
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,600
He just wanted to be the one that had the say because he thinks he's fucking smart.

1628
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:49,600
Yeah.

1629
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,120
He's got his plaid pants too.

1630
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:52,120
Seriously.

1631
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:53,520
He probably fucking did.

1632
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:54,520
Probably did.

1633
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,480
And he was like, I'm going to wear these goofy ass pants and I'm going to win this case.

1634
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:02,360
But honestly, dude, like how do you not take the advice of your defense attorneys?

1635
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,920
Seriously, like how do you fucking just say, uh, no, I got it.

1636
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:07,920
Like I went to law school.

1637
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,960
They're like, yeah, well, we've been fucking defending people for like probably years and

1638
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:13,960
years and years.

1639
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,360
And he's like, no, I got it.

1640
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:16,360
I got it.

1641
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:17,360
I went to law school.

1642
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:18,360
Seriously.

1643
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,440
And that's even when you have a defense team that's a team for a reason.

1644
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:22,440
A reason.

1645
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:26,240
Everybody's thinking differently and collaborate and like, yeah, that doesn't make, oh god.

1646
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,640
So he's like, I'll allow you guys to work alongside me.

1647
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:29,920
But like my essay is final.

1648
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:30,920
You're just for show.

1649
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:31,920
Yeah.

1650
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:32,920
My assistance.

1651
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:33,920
Exactly.

1652
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:34,920
Yeah.

1653
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:38,080
Another Tallahassee public defender and member of the defense team, Mike Minerva, I think

1654
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:39,080
is how you say it.

1655
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:40,080
Minerva.

1656
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:41,080
Minerva.

1657
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,920
Stated that a pre-child plea bargain was actually negotiated.

1658
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:48,320
That would have Ted plead guilty to killing Lisa, Margaret and Kimberly in exchange for

1659
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,920
a firm 75 year prison sentence.

1660
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:56,200
Prosecutors were actually really interested in this idea, mostly because quote, prospects

1661
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:58,200
of losing at trial were very good.

1662
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,200
Yeah.

1663
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:00,200
End quote.

1664
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,040
I'm not sure if this is like just because it was such a huge case and they had to extradite

1665
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,600
and all that stuff or there was just like so much evidence in such a little time.

1666
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,640
With possibility or parole or no.

1667
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,240
No, just like flat.

1668
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:12,240
Yeah.

1669
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:13,480
I think so.

1670
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:16,360
But either way, the prosecution was like all for it.

1671
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:17,360
Yeah.

1672
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,400
Ted, on the other hand, looked at the plea deal not only as a means of avoiding the death

1673
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:25,480
penalty, but also as a quote, tactical move.

1674
01:11:25,480 --> 01:11:27,240
Like your move guy.

1675
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:28,240
Tactical feel.

1676
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:29,240
Like what the fuck?

1677
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:34,160
He figured that he would just enter his plea, then wait a few years for evidence to disintegrate

1678
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:40,880
or become lost and or witnesses to die, just move on or retract their testimonies.

1679
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:41,880
This guy's not a lawyer.

1680
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:42,880
So fucking arrogant.

1681
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:44,400
He's like, I'll just wait them out.

1682
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:48,880
They'll eventually give up and I'll be crowned amazing and really into not let out.

1683
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:49,880
Like no.

1684
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:51,880
That's not how fucking works.

1685
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:52,880
No.

1686
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:53,880
Fuck.

1687
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:54,880
God, so annoying.

1688
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:59,240
He figured as well that once the case against him had just disappeared, he would file a post-conviction

1689
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,680
motion to set aside the plea deal and secure it acquittal.

1690
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:04,400
That's not how the fucking works.

1691
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,600
This works.

1692
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:11,880
So even though this seemed like a genius plan on Ted's behalf, he actually ended up

1693
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:13,200
refusing the deal.

1694
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:14,560
So he didn't even go through with it.

1695
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,880
Good, because you're going to be found guilty and you're going to rot in prison.

1696
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,840
So Mike Minerva would later say, quote, it made him realize he was going to have to

1697
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,640
stand up in front of the whole world and say he was guilty.

1698
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,880
He just couldn't do it.

1699
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:32,640
I like that end quote.

1700
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,200
End quote.

1701
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:39,920
So during trial, crucial testimony came from Kyle Mega, Sorority sisters, Connie Hastings

1702
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:44,240
and Nina Neary, who could both place Ted in the house with the murder weapon on the night

1703
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,240
of the crime.

1704
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:46,240
God, this guy.

1705
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:47,240
Oh, this guy.

1706
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,200
He was in the sorority house with the knife.

1707
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:50,200
Yeah.

1708
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:51,200
You know.

1709
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:52,200
Yeah.

1710
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:53,200
In the bedroom with the candlestick.

1711
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:54,200
Yeah.

1712
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:59,040
Of course, like we said earlier, the bite wounds left on Lisa's buttocks were very incriminating

1713
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,200
pieces of evidence along with her nipple mark.

1714
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:07,960
Forensic ontologist Richard Sorvin and Lowell Levine would match the bite marks to castings

1715
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,400
of Ted's teeth, which is like you said, what you want to do.

1716
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:11,400
Which is pretty cool.

1717
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,320
I wanted to do that, but you have to do dentistry and forensics.

1718
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:15,320
Oh, that's wild.

1719
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:16,360
It's a lot of schooling.

1720
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:17,360
Yeah.

1721
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:18,360
Yeah.

1722
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,320
After all of the evidence and testimonies were on the table, the jury would deliberate

1723
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:27,640
for less than seven hours before convicting Ted Bundy on July 24th, 1979 of the Margaret

1724
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:33,600
and Lisa murders, three counts of attempted first degree murders and two counts of burglary.

1725
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,320
So attempted first degree, yeah.

1726
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:36,640
Yeah.

1727
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:42,080
Second trial judge Edward Coart imposed death sentences for the murder convictions.

1728
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,480
Six months later, a second trial would take place in Orlando for the abduction and murder

1729
01:13:45,480 --> 01:13:47,440
of Kimberly Leach.

1730
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:51,640
Ted would be found guilty once again after less than eight hours deliberation.

1731
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:56,680
This was mostly due to the testimony of eyewitnesses who saw him leading Kimberly from the schoolyard

1732
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:57,680
to his van.

1733
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:59,720
It's like, okay, what the fuck.

1734
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,360
As well as the material evidence like clothing fibers, which is like low cards exchange principle

1735
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:04,360
we were talking about.

1736
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:06,240
So kind of something like that.

1737
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:11,120
So something really fucking wild that happened during this hearing.

1738
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,480
I had no fucking clue about this.

1739
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:14,480
Are you ready?

1740
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:15,480
Like it's not wild already.

1741
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:17,240
Yeah, this is a wild story.

1742
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:22,880
So Ted would actually take advantage of an obscure Florida law at the time of the trial

1743
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:28,320
that stated that providing a marriage declaration in court in the presence of a judge would

1744
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,560
constitute a legal marriage.

1745
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:31,560
Okay.

1746
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:33,680
So you remember Carol Boone from earlier?

1747
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:34,680
Oh no, Carol.

1748
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,560
The twice divorced mother of two who Ted started dating during his first round of murders.

1749
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,240
What are you doing, Carol?

1750
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:45,480
Well, since Ted was acting as his own lawyer, he had an opportunity to question Carol on

1751
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:47,360
the witness stand.

1752
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:52,720
She had actually moved to Florida to be near Ted previously and had testified for him,

1753
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:56,760
for the defense on the past year trials as well.

1754
01:14:56,760 --> 01:15:01,000
This time she was testifying once again as a character witness.

1755
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:06,200
During his questioning of her, Ted would ask Carol to marry him and she would say yes.

1756
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:07,200
In front of the judge.

1757
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,080
They were legally married.

1758
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:13,360
Once she accepted, Ted would turn and address the court declaring that they were now legally

1759
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,280
married according to the law.

1760
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:16,400
How romantic.

1761
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,040
I have like fucking heave.

1762
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,040
So romantic.

1763
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:21,040
Isn't that wild?

1764
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,040
It's so wild.

1765
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,960
Like you can just ask someone to marry you in court in front of a judge and they say yes

1766
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:26,120
and then you're legally married.

1767
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,120
Yeah.

1768
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:28,120
Like what the fuck?

1769
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,200
All right, noted.

1770
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:35,880
On February 10th, 1980, Ted was sentenced for a third time to death by electrocution.

1771
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:40,400
As the sentence was announced, Ted reportedly stood up and shouted, quote, tell the jury

1772
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,600
they were wrong.

1773
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:43,600
Like what?

1774
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,160
Tell the jury they were wrong.

1775
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:50,080
This third death penalty would be the one that was ultimately carried out.

1776
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:55,280
So one to the other ones got stayed like the state of execution and then this was the one.

1777
01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:00,240
On October, I'm sorry, in October 1981, while Ted was on death row, Carol would give birth

1778
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:04,320
to a daughter by the name of Rose, naming Ted as the father.

1779
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:05,520
How's that possible?

1780
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:09,600
While conjugal visits were actually not allowed at the Florida State Prison, where Ted was

1781
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,960
being held, it was very known that the inmates would gather a bunch of money together and

1782
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:18,080
bribe the guards for like intimate time with their female visitors.

1783
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:23,360
So it's very possible and really well thought that Ted is the father of this child.

1784
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:27,200
Isn't there another Rose in the story though?

1785
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:29,160
Deroch is the other one's last name.

1786
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:30,880
I think you're thinking of Carol Deroch.

1787
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,880
Oh yeah, that's probably the name.

1788
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:33,880
Rose.

1789
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:38,360
Shortly after the Kimberly Leach trial had ended, Ted would initiate a series of interviews

1790
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,080
with Stephen MacCowd and Hugh Ainsworth.

1791
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:47,560
He was noted as speaking mostly in the third person to avoid, quote, the stigma of confession,

1792
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:51,680
end quote, but he did begin for the very first time to relay details of his crimes and his

1793
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,440
thought processes throughout his life.

1794
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:57,000
He was like, well, he did this and he, Ted did this.

1795
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Yeah, Ted.

1796
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,440
He would say like Ted did this, which was fucking gross.

1797
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:00,440
That's creepy.

1798
01:17:00,440 --> 01:17:04,960
He would recount his career as a thief confirming Liz's long time suspicion that he had shoplifted

1799
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,600
pretty much everything he fucking owned.

1800
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,920
He would say about this, quote, the big payoff for me was actually possessing whatever it

1801
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:13,320
was I had stolen.

1802
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:19,280
I really enjoyed having something that I had wanted and gone out and taken end quote.

1803
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:22,640
It was also something that he admitted to be a very important motive for rape and murder

1804
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,040
as well possession.

1805
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,360
I see.

1806
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:30,800
He stated that sexual assaults had fulfilled his need to, quote, totally possess his victims,

1807
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,040
end quote.

1808
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:37,160
He also explained that at first he would kill his victims, quote, as a matter of expediency

1809
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:40,720
to eliminate the possibility of being caught, end quote.

1810
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:44,760
And later he would admit that murder became part of the quote, adventure, end quote, which

1811
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:45,760
is gross.

1812
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:46,760
It's part of the adventure.

1813
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:47,760
Yeah.

1814
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:48,760
It's a beautiful ride.

1815
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:49,760
That's disgusting.

1816
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,240
Like he probably thought that.

1817
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:52,240
Yeah.

1818
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,240
He probably thought this was like the all part of the human experience.

1819
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:55,240
Yeah.

1820
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:59,600
He would also state about this, quote, the ultimate possession was in fact the taking of life

1821
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,760
and then the physical possession of the remains, end quote.

1822
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:05,160
Oh, that's fucking nauseating.

1823
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:09,960
So remember way earlier I talked about a gentleman by the name of William Hagmeier and I was

1824
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:11,560
like, oh, remember what he is later?

1825
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,920
So he's a behavioral analysis, in the behavioral analysis unit of the FBI.

1826
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:20,400
So he was another person that Ted would confide in about interviews later in life or towards

1827
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:21,800
the end of his life.

1828
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:27,640
So according to William about Ted, quote, he said that after a while murder is not just

1829
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:29,440
a crime of lust or violence.

1830
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:30,920
It becomes possession.

1831
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,240
They are a part of you.

1832
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,960
The victim becomes a part of you and you too are forever one.

1833
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,580
And the grounds where you kill them or leave them become sacred to you and you will always

1834
01:18:39,580 --> 01:18:42,440
be drawn back to them, end quote.

1835
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:46,480
Ted would also confide in William that he considered himself to be an amateur or an

1836
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:51,680
impulsive killer in his early years before moving into what he called his, quote, prime

1837
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:57,000
or predator phase at about the time of the murders in 1974.

1838
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:01,400
This phrase became very infamous because it implies that Ted indeed had murder victims

1839
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,680
before 1974.

1840
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:06,240
So he's like, oh yeah, I was like really sloppy before then.

1841
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,240
It's like he's willing to only take credit for things that happened after he got like

1842
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:10,240
good at it.

1843
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:12,240
Yeah, which is like really gross.

1844
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:18,680
In July 1984, prison guards would come across two hacksaw blades very well hidden in Ted's

1845
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:19,680
cell.

1846
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:20,680
He never learns his lesson, does he?

1847
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:21,680
Yeah.

1848
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:26,160
A steel bar in one of the cell's windows had also been completely like cut throughout

1849
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:30,920
the top and bottom and glued back into place with a homemade adhesive.

1850
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:35,160
Several months later, guards would also find an unauthorized mirror and Ted was then moved

1851
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,680
to a different cell after this.

1852
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:39,200
An unauthorized mirror?

1853
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:40,200
Like he was in a lot of different mirrors.

1854
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:41,200
Maybe glass.

1855
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,880
Yeah, yeah.

1856
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:46,800
Shortly thereafter, Ted would be charged with a disciplinary infraction for unauthorized

1857
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:51,200
correspondence with another high-profile criminal, John Hinckley Jr.

1858
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,200
Ooh, did we talk about this one already?

1859
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:55,400
No, not really.

1860
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:59,160
But for those that don't know, John Hinckley Jr. was an American man who attempted to assassinate

1861
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:05,480
Ronald Reagan, president on March 30th, 1981, just two months after Reagan's first inauguration.

1862
01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:09,480
We might talk about him in the future, but I just wanted to pet that in there.

1863
01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:14,320
In October 1984, Ted would contact Robert Keppel and offered to share his self-proclaimed

1864
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,960
expertise in serial killer psychology.

1865
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:22,720
I am an expert at serial killer psychology because I am a serial killer.

1866
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:27,360
Yeah, so he was offering to share his expertise on the ongoing manhunt in Washington for the

1867
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,440
Green River Killer, also identified as Gary Ridgway.

1868
01:20:30,440 --> 01:20:32,000
Identified, that's his name.

1869
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,160
He also identified as Gary Ridgway.

1870
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:37,520
Yeah, so we actually did an episode on Green River Gary Ridgway.

1871
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,960
We actually talked about this interview that Ted did, more in detail on that episode.

1872
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,960
If you haven't heard that, jump on over and listen.

1873
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:49,400
So Robert Keppel and the Green River Task Force Detective, Dave Reichart, interviewed

1874
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:53,360
Ted together, like I said in the last episode, that Gary Ridgway would remain at large for

1875
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,240
a further 17 years after this interview.

1876
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:57,440
So clearly Ted wasn't that much of a fucking expert.

1877
01:20:57,440 --> 01:20:58,880
Well, he's not a smarty.

1878
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,640
He's not the most brightly colored crayon.

1879
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:03,840
Yeah.

1880
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:08,600
Large Fourth 1986 was the execution date set for the Chai Omega convictions.

1881
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:12,720
In April, shortly after the new date of July 2nd was announced, Ted would finally confess

1882
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:17,440
many more details about what he did to some of his victims after their deaths.

1883
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:21,760
He told them that he would revisit Taylor Mountain and other secondary crime scenes,

1884
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:26,680
often several times, to lie with his victims and perform sexual acts with their bodies

1885
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:31,280
until future faction forced him to stop.

1886
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,080
Forced him to stop?

1887
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:34,400
Yes.

1888
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:41,280
So without being too overly disgusting, essentially it was physically impossible for him to sexually

1889
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:42,280
assault the bodies.

1890
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:44,280
Because they were so badly decamphiliated.

1891
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,960
To perform knackered acts.

1892
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,360
That's fucking gross.

1893
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:55,240
He would also explain that in some cases he would drive several hours each way and remain

1894
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,120
the entire night in those places with his victims.

1895
01:21:58,120 --> 01:21:59,960
Like he would just lay down wherever they were?

1896
01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:00,960
Just fall asleep.

1897
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:01,960
Yeah.

1898
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:02,960
Or maybe not.

1899
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,320
He confessed that in Utah he applied makeup to one of his victims' lifeless faces and

1900
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,720
repeatedly washed another one's hair.

1901
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:15,200
He stated about this quote, if you've got time, they can be anything you want them to

1902
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:16,200
be.

1903
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:20,920
It just makes you want to vomit, right?

1904
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:21,920
Fucking disgusting.

1905
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,880
I'm literally covering my mouth right now.

1906
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,440
He also admitted to decapitating at least 12 of his victims with a hacksaw and would

1907
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:33,080
keep a number of their heads in his apartment before disposing of them.

1908
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,520
And I put that in there because of the friends staying at the apartment or the co-workers.

1909
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:37,520
Yeah, like how do you not know?

1910
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:38,520
Like how do you not know?

1911
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:39,920
That's not like their fault, I'm just saying.

1912
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,640
Like, it's crazy.

1913
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:48,520
Less than 15 hours before the new date of execution on July 2nd, the 11th Circuit Court

1914
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:54,360
of Appeals stayed and indefinitely his execution and they remanded the Kyomega case review

1915
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:59,200
on multiple technicalities including Ted's mental competency in a stand trial.

1916
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:03,480
November 18th would be the new date that was set to carry out the Kimberly-Leach sentence.

1917
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:07,880
Again, a lot of his execution dates kind of kept getting pushed and stuff.

1918
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:12,320
He actually had a couple of other different stays, but an all-firm execution date was

1919
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:17,040
finally set for January 24th, 1989 and it was finally announced.

1920
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:18,920
It's like, we are not fucking changing this date.

1921
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:19,920
Yeah, this is it.

1922
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:20,920
Like, we're not doing it.

1923
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:23,920
Even the, I think the governor was like, we're not fucking doing it.

1924
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:25,440
Yeah, exactly.

1925
01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:30,400
Ted had such an insane ride through the appeal courts in fact that a statement was made.

1926
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:35,400
Quote, contrary to popular belief, the courts moved Bundy as fast as they could.

1927
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:40,360
Even the prosecutors acknowledged that Bundy's lawyers never employed delaying tactics.

1928
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,960
The people everywhere ceded at the apparent delay and executing the arc demon.

1929
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,080
Ted Bundy was actually on the fast track.

1930
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:48,080
End quote.

1931
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:51,000
So he's saying like, no matter how many times we've been pushing this, like, we're trying

1932
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:53,000
our fucking damn to stick with the executor.

1933
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:54,260
Yeah, absolutely.

1934
01:23:54,260 --> 01:23:58,600
With all the appeals exhausted and no for the reason to like hide the fact that he did

1935
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:03,400
these crimes any longer, Ted agreed to speak frankly with investigators.

1936
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:07,200
He would confess to murdering all eight of the Washington and Oregon women and would

1937
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:12,040
describe three additional previously unknown victims in Washington and two in Oregon who

1938
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,000
he declined to identify.

1939
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,640
He also stated that he had left a fifth body on Taylor Mountain, like I said earlier, but

1940
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,800
it was never recovered.

1941
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,880
Robert Keppel stated about these descriptions.

1942
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:22,880
Quote.

1943
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:27,080
He described Isakua crime scene and it was almost like he was just there, like he was

1944
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:28,600
seeing everything.

1945
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,120
He was infatuated with the idea because he spent so much time there.

1946
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,240
He is just totally consumed with murder all the time.

1947
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,280
End quote.

1948
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:38,960
Polly Nelson's experience was similar.

1949
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:43,760
Again, this was the one of the appointed attorneys that was mostly an assistant to Ted.

1950
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:46,320
Yeah, yeah, you're just the assistant.

1951
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:47,600
She stated quote.

1952
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,980
It was the absolute misogyny of his crimes, his manifest rage against women.

1953
01:24:51,980 --> 01:24:53,920
He had no compassion at all.

1954
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,160
He was totally engrossed in the details.

1955
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,520
His murders were his life's accomplishments.

1956
01:24:58,520 --> 01:24:59,520
End quote.

1957
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:00,520
I know.

1958
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:08,600
That's interesting about Ted Bundy is just the fact that, like he said, not her, the

1959
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:09,600
defense attorney, right?

1960
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:11,000
Polly, yeah, Robert Keppel.

1961
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,000
Yeah.

1962
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:17,840
When he was just saying it's all consuming, he doesn't know how to be anything else but

1963
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:18,840
a murderer.

1964
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:19,840
Yeah.

1965
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:20,840
And that's just his job.

1966
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:21,840
That's it.

1967
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:22,840
My God.

1968
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,920
So due to all of these last minute confessions being thrown out there, there were a lot of

1969
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:30,480
questions being asked about whether or not Ted was going to be retried for any of these

1970
01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:32,360
new victims.

1971
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,640
It became very clear that no further stays were going to be coming from the courts and

1972
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,680
his execution date was not going to change again.

1973
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,880
Polly Nelson stated about this quote.

1974
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,800
The families already believed that the victims were dead and that Ted had killed them.

1975
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:46,320
They didn't need his confession.

1976
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:47,320
End quote.

1977
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:48,320
Damn.

1978
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:49,840
So they're like, fucking just executed?

1979
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:51,080
We don't need to retry him for anything.

1980
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:52,600
Like everyone already knows.

1981
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:53,600
Yeah.

1982
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:58,280
Florida governor Bob Martinez made a statement as well, quote, we are not going to have the

1983
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:02,760
system manipulated for him to be negotiating for his life over the bodies of victims is

1984
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:03,760
despicable.

1985
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:04,760
End quote.

1986
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:05,760
Fuck.

1987
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:07,880
So he was like, he's trying to give us all this new evidence so that we'll keep trying

1988
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:09,080
him so that we'll keep him alive.

1989
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:10,080
Yeah.

1990
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:11,080
And we're not fucking doing that.

1991
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:12,080
We're not doing that.

1992
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:16,720
Carol Boone had actually truly thought that Ted was innocent throughout his trials and

1993
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:22,920
was noted as feeling, quote, deeply betrayed by his admission that he was in fact guilty.

1994
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:24,280
His wife.

1995
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,040
What kind of bullshit was he feeding her?

1996
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:27,040
I have no idea.

1997
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:29,280
But she like moved down to Florida for him.

1998
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,600
She did character witness and all three of his trials.

1999
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:32,600
All that.

2000
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,840
As soon as he admitted as guilt, she would actually take their kid and move back to Washington

2001
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:40,160
and refused to accept any of his phone calls on the morning of his execution.

2002
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:41,160
Oh, damn.

2003
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:42,160
That's cold.

2004
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:43,160
She's like, fuck you.

2005
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:44,160
You're fucking cold.

2006
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:45,160
Yeah.

2007
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,200
I mean, not that he deserves it or anything.

2008
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:48,880
He doesn't deserve a fucking phone call.

2009
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:50,720
But he must have just been feeding her some bullshit.

2010
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:56,240
Like, no, like, let's have a baby because, you know, eventually I'm gonna get out of

2011
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:57,240
here.

2012
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:58,240
They're gonna find me innocent one day.

2013
01:26:58,240 --> 01:26:59,240
Yeah.

2014
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:03,640
On the eve of Ted Bundy's execution, it was noted that he actually discussed committing

2015
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,140
suicide.

2016
01:27:05,140 --> 01:27:08,520
It is widely thought that he did not just want to give the state the satisfaction of

2017
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:12,680
killing him and he would have rather got out of his own accord.

2018
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:19,760
Theodore Robert Bundy was executed via electric chair at 716 a.m. on Tuesday, January 24th,

2019
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:20,920
1989.

2020
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:24,920
His final words were directed at his attorney, Jim Coleman, and Methodist minister, Fred

2021
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:30,440
Lawrence, quote, Jim and Fred, I'd like you to give my love to my family and friends,

2022
01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:31,960
end quote.

2023
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:32,960
Like fuck off.

2024
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:33,960
Fuck off.

2025
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:39,200
Hundreds of onlookers sang, danced, and set off fireworks in the pasture across from

2026
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,360
the prison as the execution was carried out.

2027
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:47,840
They then celebrated as the white hearse containing Ted's body left the prison.

2028
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:52,000
He was cremated in Gainesville and his ashes were scattered in an undisclosed location

2029
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,080
in the cascade range of Washington state in accordance with his will.

2030
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:01,640
So we can definitely go into, like, every single thing that Bundy was diagnosed with,

2031
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:05,480
but in reality he's such an anomaly that there's really not one disorder that he

2032
01:28:05,480 --> 01:28:06,480
fell under.

2033
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:07,480
Yeah.

2034
01:28:07,480 --> 01:28:11,840
I will just say that the majority of evidence points away from bipolar disorder and mostly

2035
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:16,600
and other psychosis and towards antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder.

2036
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:17,600
Yeah.

2037
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,440
Dahmer had a pretty lengthy diagnosis as well.

2038
01:28:21,440 --> 01:28:24,200
Obviously he was an necrophiliac, paraffilic, you know, things like that.

2039
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:25,200
The list goes on.

2040
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:29,320
A lot of people think that he was a true psychopath or sociopath, but I just wanted to briefly

2041
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:30,680
touch on that.

2042
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:35,600
I will just really quickly go through a list of victims that were thought to be his, but

2043
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:37,040
were not confirmed.

2044
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:41,320
These are going to be ones that I have mentioned earlier, but I just wanted to give them the,

2045
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:45,080
you know, acknowledgement at the very end of kind of talking a little bit more about

2046
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:46,080
them.

2047
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:47,520
So we're going to talk about those real quick.

2048
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,000
And the, you know, mental illness we could talk about for a fucking day.

2049
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,400
So of course there's Ann Marie Burr.

2050
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:53,640
We talked about her in part one.

2051
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:56,880
That's the eight-year-old that vanished from her home in 1961.

2052
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:00,960
So this is one of the ones, but Ted was only 14 at this time, remember?

2053
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:01,960
Okay.

2054
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:07,080
The next are flight attendants Lisa E. Wick and Lonnie Rie Trumbull, both 20 years old.

2055
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,920
They were found bludgeoned with a piece of lumber as they slept in their basement apartment

2056
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,480
in June of 1966.

2057
01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:17,560
There are many similarities to this crime scene and the Chio Omega house crime scene.

2058
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,920
So people do think that it might have been Ted.

2059
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,440
Excuse me, Lisa would ultimately survive the attack and unfortunately Lonnie would pass

2060
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:25,440
away.

2061
01:29:25,440 --> 01:29:29,320
But Lisa was noted as saying, quote, I know that it was Ted Bundy who did that to us,

2062
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:30,920
but I can't tell you how I know.

2063
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:31,920
And I know.

2064
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:32,920
Like he just has that feeling.

2065
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:35,600
It's just his silhouette or something.

2066
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,720
Next is Susan Marguerite Davis and Elizabeth Perry, both 19.

2067
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:45,120
These two women were both stabbed to death in New Jersey on May 30th, 1969.

2068
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:50,080
Bundy is considered a quote, strong suspect in this case, but it's a bunch of circumstantial

2069
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:51,080
evidence.

2070
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:55,720
24 year old elementary school teacher Rita Patricia Curran was actually murdered in her

2071
01:29:55,720 --> 01:30:00,660
basement apartment on July 19th, 1971 in Burlington, Vermont.

2072
01:30:00,660 --> 01:30:03,920
She had been strangled, bludgeoned and sexually assaulted.

2073
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:08,760
Ted had told Robert Keppel that he had murdered a young woman in 1971 in Burlington, but he

2074
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,400
was never confirmed to be the perpetrator of this crime.

2075
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:17,120
21 year old Joyce LePage was last seen on the evening of July 22nd, 1971 when her friends

2076
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:21,000
dropped her off at an apartment on the campus of Washington state.

2077
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:26,160
According to reports, a quote, yellow Volkswagen bug was matching Ted's description, a person

2078
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:31,160
as well was not the bug, the person and a person matching Ted's description were both

2079
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,880
spotted on campus at the time of her disappearance, but he still does remain a suspect again.

2080
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:36,480
It's an open case.

2081
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:43,360
Carrie Mae Hardy, 22, disappeared while hitchhiking on June 24th, 1972 from Capitol Hill, Washington.

2082
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:47,960
They initially thought that she was a victim of Gary Ridgway, but neither him or Ted ever

2083
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:51,920
commented on her case, so there's nothing linking her to either of them.

2084
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:57,560
Rita Lorraine Jolly, 17, disappeared from Oregon on June 29th, 1973.

2085
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:01,880
Ted did confess to those two homicides in Oregon without identifying the victim, so it's

2086
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:06,200
widely thought that he might have been the perpetrator behind this disappearance.

2087
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:12,520
Catherine Mary Devine, 14, was abducted on November 25th, 1973 near Olympia, Washington.

2088
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:18,200
And Brenda Joy Baker, also 14, was last seen hitchhiking on May 27th, 1974 around the same

2089
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:19,520
area.

2090
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:23,600
Ted is widely believed to be responsible for both murders, but he told Robert Keppel that

2091
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:25,840
he did not know either of these girls.

2092
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,960
I should say disappearance is not murders, because again, there's no evidence right

2093
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:29,960
there.

2094
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:34,720
19-year-old Sandra Jean Weaver had been living in Utah and was lost in Salt Lake City on

2095
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,560
July 1st, 1974.

2096
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:43,360
Sources actually conflict on whether Ted mentioned her name before his death or interviews or

2097
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:47,160
not, but again, her murder still remains unsolved today.

2098
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:53,120
Melanie Suzanne Cooley, age 18, disappeared on April 15th, 1975 in Colorado.

2099
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:57,480
Gas station receipts actually placed Ted at nearby Golden, Colorado on the day that she

2100
01:31:57,480 --> 01:32:00,160
disappeared, but again, still a cold case.

2101
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:01,160
Go ahead.

2102
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:05,080
Shelly, her last name was cool, but you'd mentioned her earlier in the podcast.

2103
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,440
Yeah, some of these people are ones that I mentioned earlier briefly, but I just wanted

2104
01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:15,240
to put them down here just to remind everyone that they are still cold cases.

2105
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:17,680
Anyone obviously has an information, please call.

2106
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:21,840
He actually was questioned about this next one and it's pretty interesting.

2107
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:26,800
So Shelly K. Robertson, 24, failed to show up for work in Golden, Colorado on July 1st,

2108
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:28,040
the same day.

2109
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:31,560
But when he was questioned about this case, he said, quote, I don't want to talk about

2110
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:32,560
that.

2111
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,400
So he didn't say like, I don't know who that is or I don't know who that is.

2112
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:37,920
Yeah, I don't want to talk about that.

2113
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,040
Even though there's no direct evidence of his involvement in the case, store remains

2114
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:42,040
open.

2115
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:43,040
Hmm.

2116
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:47,120
23 year old Nancy Perry Baird disappeared from the gas station where she worked in Utah

2117
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:52,080
on July 4th, 1975 and remains classified as a missing person today.

2118
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:55,560
Ted would deny any involvement in this disappearance, but it is thought that he might have something

2119
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:57,000
to do with it.

2120
01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:02,760
And lastly, Debbie Smith, who was 17, was lost in Salt Lake City in early February, 1976.

2121
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:06,840
Ted is listed as a perpetrator by some sources, but her murder officially remains unsolved

2122
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:07,840
as well.

2123
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:08,840
Wow.

2124
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:14,000
So a lot of victims, obviously a lot of those people we don't know for sure if he is the

2125
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:17,760
perpetrator or not, but I definitely wanted to, you know, write those down and make sure

2126
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,320
that I mentioned all of them, of course, because they are on a lot of sources that I was looking

2127
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:24,160
up and, you know, they deserve to be mentioned as well.

2128
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:25,160
Absolutely.

2129
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:26,160
Yeah.

2130
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:32,280
I think that's one of the wilder ones that we've done.

2131
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:38,280
That's like, dude, I hate saying this because we love bringing you guys content, but like

2132
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:41,800
I am so ready to stop researching.

2133
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:42,800
It was a lot.

2134
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:44,960
I mean, that took me like probably three weeks to research.

2135
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:49,880
I told you before we recorded that I had a Dahmer nightmares last night, not nightmares,

2136
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:56,880
but like he had Evan Peters head as Dahmer, but he was built like Arnold Schwarzenegger

2137
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,920
and he was standing in that apartment like in the Netflix show in front of the door like

2138
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:02,440
he almost couldn't see the door frame.

2139
01:34:02,440 --> 01:34:06,160
He was so big and he had his glasses and everything.

2140
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:07,160
Oh, that's so funny.

2141
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:10,000
But his body was like tan like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

2142
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:11,000
That's hilarious.

2143
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:12,000
Because that's what he was into.

2144
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:16,720
He was into muscular men and so it was just stuck in my head and I just remember thinking,

2145
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,840
I'm in a dream with Dahmer right now, I gotta wake up.

2146
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:27,240
It wasn't even like it was just because of the case and thinking about it and it just

2147
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:32,520
being a part of your life when you research for stuff like this for so long.

2148
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:33,520
Yeah, absolutely.

2149
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:35,680
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us.

2150
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:38,160
I hope you guys like these longer cases.

2151
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:42,280
This is my proof that I had to do Bundy in two parts because this is both like an hour

2152
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:44,080
and a half long episode.

2153
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:47,960
So thank you guys for joining us and if you made it this far, we especially love you.

2154
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:49,600
Yeah, thanks so much guys.

2155
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,880
Come check us out at the, check us out.

2156
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:55,880
Come see us at the Paranormal Podcast Festival, check out our social media is what I meant

2157
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,400
to say and keep sending us messages and requests guys.

2158
01:34:58,400 --> 01:34:59,800
We're getting a lot that are really great.

2159
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:01,600
We're writing a lot down.

2160
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:07,200
Kowell actually already decided what you're gonna do for August's bonus episode and I

2161
01:35:07,200 --> 01:35:08,880
am still debating on mine.

2162
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:13,600
I have something in mind for this month's 29th but I don't know yet.

2163
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:15,960
But we'll definitely release that like we always do for the bonus.

2164
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:17,800
We tell you guys like a week in advance who we're doing.

2165
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:19,280
Yeah, we do a little teaser.

2166
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:20,280
Yeah, but anyway.

2167
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,280
Ladies always the one, the lady are scaring us.

2168
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:25,880
They're always the one that knows exactly what we're talking about.

2169
01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:27,240
Yeah, exactly.

2170
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,600
And I also just wanted to pepper in a little something that I'm really excited about.

2171
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:35,720
I actually completed my application for my forensic psychology master's degree today.

2172
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,040
So I applied for grad school today and hopefully I will get in.

2173
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:40,040
So exciting.

2174
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:41,760
And it's gonna be forensic psych, not forensic.

2175
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:45,200
It's gonna be an MS though so it's gonna be like technically forensic science but it's

2176
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:47,360
like forensic, it's not like a thesis.

2177
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:49,760
It's just like a general degree.

2178
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:50,760
Exciting.

2179
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:53,000
But hopefully I'll get accepted and start that.

2180
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:54,000
That's gonna be really cool.

2181
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,880
We're writing high right now for sure.

2182
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:56,880
Seriously.

2183
01:35:56,880 --> 01:36:01,080
Okay, well we will see you guys on Monday with another minty breaky and we love you.

2184
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:02,080
We love you.

2185
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:03,080
Bye.

2186
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:13,720
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2187
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