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Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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I'm Kenna. I'm Koelle.

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And this is a freaking Newsy!

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I keep forgetting my face is painted too.

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I know. It looks so cute though.

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I got my face painted at work today along with some of the kiddos.

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Mine was very minuscule compared to what they all got.

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They got like tigers and butterflies and all this really cool stuff.

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The admin at work is really good at drawing.

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I thought you got a face tattoo when you came home.

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I was like, whoa!

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He was painting on me. He's like, I'm gonna give you the mic.

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Now, Keith.

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I love that meme.

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Well, welcome back everybody.

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It's good to see you guys again.

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Or I guess good for you guys to hear us talking again.

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Yeah, it's good for you guys.

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I know you love yourselves.

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Bask in the glory.

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But this week you did get a case two days after a mental breakdown.

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So that's pretty cool.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, cause it was a little bit of a well, Juneteenth happened.

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And then an observation of that.

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We didn't have our episodes come out until Tuesday.

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So, yeah.

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Two days.

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Speaking of episodes coming out and where you can listen to us and all that jazz.

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If this is your first time listening, we do have a bunch of different platforms on social media at DiagnosingAKiller.

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You can shoot us an email at DiagnosingAKiller at gmail.com.

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Twitter is at Killer Diagnosis.

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And if you feel so inclined, you can donate to the Patreon at patreon.com slash DiagnosingAKiller.

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At the Patreon levels, you will get in levels two and three, you will get an additional bonus episode on the 29th of every month,

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which is next Thursday or a week from the time that this is going to be released.

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And we are actually going to tell you guys who we're doing for that at the end of this episode.

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Yeah, you're gonna have to wait.

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You're gonna have to wait.

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You gotta sit on it.

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Did you see Hillary's response to the Instagram post?

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Yes.

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Oh, it's hilarious.

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Oh, it's hilarious.

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Amazing.

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You're like dead.

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I was dead.

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I would be dead.

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Oh no.

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Oh no.

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Oh no.

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Hinting.

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Okay, tell us what you got.

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So, we did get an email from a loyal listener.

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This is John.

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John had listened to the latest episode of the podcast and he had some things to say about screen printing.

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Okay.

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Specifically when it comes to like hour merch, because I have been guilty of using the word sublimination.

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Okay.

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John says, on the last episode, talking about the shirt feeling and that it was sublimination,

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it may not be.

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It depends on where you get it.

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If you have a print on demand, it is most likely DTG, which is direct to garment.

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Sublimination is similar, but application is different.

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So, DTG or direct to garment prints as it says, the printer prints right on the shirt.

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Sublimination, however, prints to paper and then is applied via heat to a shirt.

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I don't know if that's necessarily a vinyl.

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I didn't ask.

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I should have.

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Sorry, John.

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Well iron on.

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Yeah, there's a couple of ways.

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Like an iron on.

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So, yeah, the one that you're feeling is likely screen printing, since the initial costs of

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the screen print are high, they don't use that for print on demand, but yeah, he says

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he knows way too much about it.

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But thank you, John, for educating us on that because I really feel like that's important

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so that you guys know the quality of the merch you're getting.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Thanks John.

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And thanks for listening.

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I didn't know John was an active listener.

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Yeah.

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I wish John.

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I wish John.

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Okay, we need to get right the fuck into this because it is a fucking day.

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Yeah, and I got plans.

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I'm kidding.

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Where do you gotta be besides listening to my friend here?

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I'm so excited.

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Okay, so I said that this is gonna be a two pot, huh?

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Yes.

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I also said that my case this week and again rolling into next week with the two parts

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may correlate a little bit with your case or Patreon.

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So I'm not gonna give it away here doing the Patreon, but I will say that for my two-parter,

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I finally fucking did it.

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Kemper?

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Bundy.

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Bundy?

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Bundy.

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Oh my lord.

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Well, well, well.

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I finally fucking did it.

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No wonder it's so much research.

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I just sat the fuck down and wrote.

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I was like, here we go.

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Here we fucking go.

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He's one of those people where you literally can't overthink his MO or his whole life because

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you're like, it's just way too much.

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Yeah.

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Like you would like, hurt yourself while.

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Daddy Teddy.

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Daddy Teddy, man.

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Ted from the West.

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For Ted of the West.

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Ted of the West.

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So yes, we are going to be talking about Theodore Robert Bundy, aka Ted Bundy, aka a lot of

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different nicknames that he has.

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Theodore Robert Bundlin.

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Bundlin.

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The third.

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So yes, that is gonna be this episode and then of course part two will be coming out

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next week, but let's get this going because it's a lot.

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Okay.

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So this is a content warning.

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This episode contains depictions of child abuse, brutal sexual assault.

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If any of these topics make you uncomfortable, this might not be the episode for you.

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We encourage you to go listen to another one of our episodes.

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Remember your mental health is very important and we love you.

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We love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Wow.

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You could have just said everything under the sun.

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Yeah.

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It's a lot of a content warning and I actually left out some things because there's more,

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but it's not gonna come out till part two.

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I see.

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So I'm not gonna say it in this episode.

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Yeah.

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Makes sense.

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I think so.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Are you ready to get into this?

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Yes.

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Let's fucking do it.

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Theodore Ted Robert Cowell was born on November 24th, 1946 to 22-year-old Eleanor Louise Cowell

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at the Elizabeth Lund home for unwed mothers in Burlington, Vermont.

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Interesting.

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Okay.

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Already interesting.

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It's a lot.

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Per sentence.

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His biological father's identity has never been confirmed, although his original birth

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certificate apparently states that a United States Air Force veteran, Lloyd Marshall,

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is the father.

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Okay.

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So is he what?

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Cow- Cowley- Crowley- Cowell.

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Cowell is his- Is he Bundy?

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Is he- He's Cowell right now.

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Okay.

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But then the other guy's name was Tom- Marshall?

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Marshall?

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Yeah.

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I almost- Tom Marshall.

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I also want to make it clear.

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I said Air Force base really like enunciated that time.

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Just so that- No, I'm not in front of me.

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It's not Air Force base.

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So on his birth certificate apparently it claims that this Lloyd Marshall Air Force veteran

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is his father.

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Okay.

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Even with this apparent birth certificate copy, another one exists stating that the

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father is unknown.

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So there's like two in circulation apparently.

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She just said that guy's a stand up dude.

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Put him on the birth certificate.

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I think so, yeah.

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Louise would later claim that she met a war veteran by the name of Jack Worthington who

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abandoned her soon after she became pregnant.

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So Worthington, Marshall, unknown.

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Unknown.

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Okay.

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So there's a lot of different stories going on.

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Yeah.

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And she's clearly never been married because that's her maiden name is-

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So she had the baby in an Unwed Mother's home as well.

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So none of these allegations were ever confirmed and a census was actually done way later on

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to see if these men even existed at all.

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Ooh.

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There were found to be several men by the names of John Worthington and Lloyd Marshall

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living near Louise around the time that Ted would have been conceived.

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So it was not able to be narrowed down because there's a lot of them.

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There's gonna be any of them, yeah.

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Some family members even speculated that Louise's own dad may have been the true biological father

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of Ted and this is the most widely believed rumor.

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However, it was debunked in 2020 when psychiatrist Dorothy Onlowe Lewis, I'm sorry, Otno Lewis

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claimed that she received a blood sample of Bundy's and tested it against DNA to determine

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that his birth was not the product of incest.

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Okay.

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But it seems like a lot of people think that and including Ted.

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Yeah.

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He might have thought that as well.

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Because it would have been from the same family line.

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Otherwise, yeah, you would see that but I guess she saw that there was another unknown

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DNA.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And she, I mean, as the mother, God forbid, if that did happen, I mean, I don't think

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she would put that on the birth certificate, especially in the 40s.

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I mean, a time.

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It's not good.

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And he's like, let alone the 1940s.

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So Ted and his mother would remain in the home for the first two months of his life.

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I guess they provided assistance.

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So I just want to correct myself really quick.

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I've been saying Louise as the name of his mom.

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That's her middle name.

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Her name's Eleanor.

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Oh, I see.

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Okay.

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So they're both her name, but I've been calling her Louise, but her name's Eleanor.

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It's Eleanor.

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Correct myself.

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Marcus.

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So Eleanor thought about putting Ted up for adoption for a while after he was born, but

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her father refused to let that happen.

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And for the first three years of Ted's life, his maternal grandparents, Samuel Nect Cowell

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and Eleanor Miriam Cowell, would raise him in Roxborough, Philadelphia.

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Okay.

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It's like a lot along huge words.

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Right.

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The grandparents took over the role as Ted's parents in order to avoid negative stigma

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surrounding a baby being born out of wedlock.

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They had said that they had adopted him.

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Family, friends, and Ted alike were told that his grandparents were his biological parents

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and his mother was his older sister.

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I get like how people try to protect these kids, but at the same time, like you're only

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giving them a fucking complex.

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That's the same thing with Berkowitz.

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Those were his adoptive parents.

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Didn't know that his adoptive mother was sick with terminal fucking cancer.

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And then they were like, oh, by the way, your mother's dying of cancer.

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Oh, really?

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Yeah.

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She's been sick for like years.

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We just didn't tell you or like six since she was six since he was a little kid.

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And then not only that, oh, by the way, she's your adoptive mother.

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You don't get that information until she's dead.

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No, seriously.

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And it's like, you're not protecting them.

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You're protecting yourself from having to explain something like that.

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Right.

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Having to deal with the emotional consequences of that.

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Like that's not fucking fair.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I can't speak.

263
00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:30,780
I don't know that situation.

264
00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:32,860
I don't know anybody that's been in that situation.

265
00:10:32,860 --> 00:10:38,460
I just feel I've had acquaintances that have gone through situations like that and they

266
00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:39,460
feel robbed.

267
00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:40,740
And it's just, it's really sad.

268
00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:41,740
Absolutely.

269
00:10:41,740 --> 00:10:46,500
So it wouldn't be until much later that Ted would find out the truth about his mother.

270
00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:50,500
Some sources state that Ted had told a girlfriend of his that one of his cousins showed him

271
00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:55,100
his birth certificate when he was younger and called him a bastard, which is fucked up.

272
00:10:55,100 --> 00:11:00,220
While other sources stated that Ted told biographers Steven Michael, sorry, Steven Macauld and Hugh

273
00:11:00,220 --> 00:11:03,220
Ainsworth that he had found the birth certificate himself.

274
00:11:03,220 --> 00:11:06,660
Either way, he found out later on as an adult.

275
00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:10,420
Ann Rule, a biographer and true crime writer who had become very close with Ted in his

276
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:11,520
adult years.

277
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,380
She actually was an old co-worker of his as well.

278
00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:15,020
And we'll get into that.

279
00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:19,100
She stated that he did not find out the truth until 1969 when he found his original birth

280
00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:20,580
certificate in Vermont.

281
00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:23,940
So again, kind of like, and we'll see that a lot like throughout this story.

282
00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:28,340
There's a lot of mixed reviews because Ted was one of those people that like really like

283
00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:31,020
to like get in your head and like make you be like, what?

284
00:11:31,020 --> 00:11:33,980
Like the doopers, like huge doopers.

285
00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:38,380
There's literally no way to tell like what's fact from what's him just making something

286
00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:39,380
up.

287
00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:40,380
Yeah.

288
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:43,300
Everything that I'm going to write and talk about is like the most widely believed things.

289
00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:44,300
I see.

290
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:46,340
But it's really no way to tell and we can't ask him.

291
00:11:46,340 --> 00:11:51,620
He loved to just confuse people with information and you know, or try to find like a manipulation

292
00:11:51,620 --> 00:11:56,780
or a bonding with a specific person through, oh, you were growing Vermont, so did I.

293
00:11:56,780 --> 00:11:57,780
Yeah.

294
00:11:57,780 --> 00:12:01,100
And even if we could ask him, who knows if you'd be telling the truth or not.

295
00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:02,100
Right.

296
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:07,700
So Ted allegedly stated once in an interview about his birth certificate or his birth story,

297
00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:11,980
quote, maybe I just figured out that there couldn't be 20 years difference in age between

298
00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:13,500
a brother and a sister.

299
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,260
And Louise always took care of me.

300
00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:19,780
I just grew up knowing that I just grew up knowing that she really was my mother.

301
00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:20,780
So he called her Louise as well.

302
00:12:20,780 --> 00:12:21,780
Yeah.

303
00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:24,460
That's why it was confusing in the beginning because I think she went by Louise.

304
00:12:24,460 --> 00:12:26,300
So interesting though.

305
00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:30,260
But balls on the people that do stuff like that.

306
00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:31,580
And I'm not in a negative way.

307
00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:35,780
I'm just saying like in order to, because what you're doing is what you're doing is

308
00:12:35,780 --> 00:12:36,780
what you think is best.

309
00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:37,780
Yes.

310
00:12:37,780 --> 00:12:43,940
So to go your entire life having this child call you like your sister and that's your

311
00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:44,940
bio kids.

312
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:47,220
He calls her just by her first name.

313
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:48,220
Yeah.

314
00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:49,220
Yeah.

315
00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:50,220
And she was there like that whole time.

316
00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:52,340
That was, that would have been his mother figure, you know.

317
00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:53,340
Yeah.

318
00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:54,340
It's interesting.

319
00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:58,300
So anyway, growing up Ted was raised to believe that his grandparents again were his bio parents

320
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:00,260
and his mother was his sister.

321
00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:04,300
On the outside, the family seemed super normal and put together, but on the inside, it was

322
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:05,300
a much different story.

323
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:06,300
Hmm.

324
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:07,300
Taylor's all this time.

325
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:08,300
We always hear this.

326
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:12,660
Ted's grandmother actually suffered from really bad depression and agoraphobia.

327
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:14,380
Oh no.

328
00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:18,380
For those that do not know, agoraphobia is the extreme or irrational fear of entering

329
00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:24,060
open or crowded places, of leaving one's home, or of being in places in which escape is

330
00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:26,180
difficult, which is an airplane.

331
00:13:26,180 --> 00:13:27,740
So essentially she was a homebody.

332
00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:29,340
She stayed home all the time.

333
00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:33,140
On top of his grandmother's mental illness, his grandfather had been described as having

334
00:13:33,140 --> 00:13:35,580
a raging temper.

335
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:36,580
This is just so great.

336
00:13:36,580 --> 00:13:40,460
Starting out really, really solid for Ted here.

337
00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:45,460
According to Dorothy Lewis, again professional psychiatrist, Samuel was a quote, extremely

338
00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:51,780
violent and frightening individual who kicked dogs, swung cats by their tails, and beat

339
00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:54,740
people frequently.

340
00:13:54,740 --> 00:13:55,740
With the cats?

341
00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:56,740
Yeah.

342
00:13:56,740 --> 00:13:58,260
You beat them with the cats?

343
00:13:58,260 --> 00:13:59,260
No.

344
00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:00,260
Gosh, that's awful.

345
00:14:00,260 --> 00:14:01,260
Sorry, just a little bit of comic relief.

346
00:14:01,260 --> 00:14:02,260
It's awful though.

347
00:14:02,260 --> 00:14:03,260
It's one of those things where you're so uncomfortable.

348
00:14:03,260 --> 00:14:04,260
It's really uncomfortable.

349
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:05,260
Who?

350
00:14:05,260 --> 00:14:06,260
I just can't.

351
00:14:06,260 --> 00:14:09,500
Anybody who treats animals like that, just a piece of shit.

352
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:10,500
Absolutely.

353
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:14,660
So this, along with a plethora of other things Ted was exposed to in the household, led him

354
00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:21,060
to begin showing signs of a disturbance at a very early age, at just three years old.

355
00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:26,260
So at the age of three, Ted was reported to have taken all the knives from the kitchen

356
00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:30,100
and placed them all around his Aunt Julia while she was taking a nap.

357
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:31,100
Oh my God.

358
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:32,100
That's like even.

359
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:33,100
I don't like to fuck you.

360
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:34,100
I don't know.

361
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:36,340
That's what I was thinking, like a crime scene.

362
00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:37,340
Like a crime scene.

363
00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:38,340
Fuck.

364
00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:39,340
Yes.

365
00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:40,340
At three?

366
00:14:40,340 --> 00:14:41,340
At three.

367
00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,940
That's, I mean, that's not typical behavior.

368
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:44,940
Absolutely not.

369
00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:46,540
So it's not even misconstrued.

370
00:14:46,540 --> 00:14:48,180
That could not even be misconstrued.

371
00:14:48,180 --> 00:14:49,180
There's no way.

372
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:50,180
You're like, this is what it is.

373
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:51,180
It's like so much fun.

374
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,140
It's like tinker toys.

375
00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:58,340
So this Aunt Julia reportedly woke up from her nap and took notice of the blades surrounding

376
00:14:58,340 --> 00:14:59,340
her.

377
00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:01,260
Like she was in a fucking freak show.

378
00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:02,260
Right?

379
00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:03,260
Circus.

380
00:15:03,260 --> 00:15:08,420
And of course she also took notice of a young Ted standing very close by pointing at her

381
00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:09,420
and smiling.

382
00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:10,420
Ew.

383
00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:11,420
At three.

384
00:15:11,420 --> 00:15:12,420
I don't know.

385
00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:16,860
There's something about creepy children that like scare me more than creepy adults.

386
00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:20,060
Like if you ever watch like a horror movie like The Child, the creepy one, like it freaks

387
00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:21,060
me out even more.

388
00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:23,060
You just stay there pointing like, ha ha.

389
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:26,060
Like, what is it?

390
00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:27,060
Nelson.

391
00:15:27,060 --> 00:15:28,060
Oh yeah, Nelson.

392
00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:32,060
Yeah, then his mom's like, was there a raspy as voice like, ha ha.

393
00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:33,060
Creepy.

394
00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:35,940
No, that's awful though.

395
00:15:35,940 --> 00:15:40,500
So according to Julia, this actually happened a few times and she would later state about

396
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:46,140
this quote, again, the knives, quote, I remember thinking at the time that I was the only one

397
00:15:46,140 --> 00:15:47,740
who thought it was strange.

398
00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:48,740
Nobody did anything.

399
00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:49,740
Ew.

400
00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:55,820
Like, you're three year olds fucking terrorizing me multiple times with knives and they're

401
00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:59,660
like, hey something weird happened over here.

402
00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:01,300
This guy's starting to be with knives.

403
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,300
He's three.

404
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,460
Kids will be kids.

405
00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:09,460
In the same article as this quote, Dr. Lewis was known as saying, quote, only in very seriously

406
00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:13,780
traumatized children who have either themselves been the victims of extraordinary abuse or

407
00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:17,820
have witnessed extreme violence among family members would engage in actions like that.

408
00:16:17,820 --> 00:16:18,820
Yeah.

409
00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:19,820
It's that.

410
00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:20,820
It's that.

411
00:16:20,820 --> 00:16:21,820
At three.

412
00:16:21,820 --> 00:16:22,820
That's so fucking sad though.

413
00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:23,820
It's taught.

414
00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:24,820
It's taught.

415
00:16:24,820 --> 00:16:26,820
You don't just fucking think of that as a three year old.

416
00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:27,820
Yeah.

417
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:30,820
Like, three year olds eat like, rollie-pollies.

418
00:16:30,820 --> 00:16:31,820
For real.

419
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:36,260
Along with the violent outbursts and animal abuse from his grandfather, he was also not

420
00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:39,300
shy about keeping graphic pornography about the home.

421
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:41,820
Here are we fucking going again.

422
00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:42,820
In the middle of the house.

423
00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:45,500
And then you're going to blame porn for him being a murderer.

424
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:48,700
That's not what I can have on the back of my toilet tank.

425
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:49,700
Seriously.

426
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:55,380
So Ted was noted as having access to these magazines in such at like a very young age

427
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:56,780
and like all throughout his childhood.

428
00:16:56,780 --> 00:17:00,340
Like it got to the point where like once he was old enough, he would like seek them out

429
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:03,900
because he wanted to see it again.

430
00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:10,060
Ted would later speak very warmly about his grandparents and he would say that he quote

431
00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:15,580
identified with, respected and clung to his grandfather.

432
00:17:15,580 --> 00:17:16,580
It was respected.

433
00:17:16,580 --> 00:17:18,580
No, that was, that's something.

434
00:17:18,580 --> 00:17:19,580
That's a trauma bond.

435
00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:20,580
That's a trauma bond.

436
00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:21,580
Yeah.

437
00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:22,580
Fucking trauma bond.

438
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:23,580
Yeah.

439
00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:25,860
It's, it's, I need to be accepted by somebody and you seem like you know what you're doing.

440
00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:28,100
Because you're the authoritarian here.

441
00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:32,820
So I'm going to latch on to you because you're my only frame of reference here and I have

442
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:35,300
no other option but to like whip up in a shape.

443
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:36,300
He's the only man.

444
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:37,300
Yeah.

445
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:38,300
Yeah.

446
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:39,300
The only man.

447
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:43,140
And here's the another example of Bundy always kind of counteracting what he says because

448
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:47,740
he would also tell attorneys later that Samuel, his grandfather was a tyrannical bully

449
00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:53,260
who beat his wife and dog was extremely racist and violent to people and animals.

450
00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:54,260
But I respected him.

451
00:17:54,260 --> 00:17:55,660
Like I respect the fuck out of him.

452
00:17:55,660 --> 00:17:56,660
Yeah.

453
00:17:56,660 --> 00:18:00,060
So I don't know if he was saying like he's all of these things and I respect him.

454
00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:01,060
Yeah.

455
00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:02,540
Or he's all of these things but I respect him.

456
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:04,260
Or it's just dependent on his mood.

457
00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:05,260
Probably.

458
00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:07,540
I mean, yeah, when it benefits him.

459
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:08,540
Yes.

460
00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:13,180
Ted had also stated that one time he remembered Samuel throwing Julia down a flight of stairs

461
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:14,180
for oversleeping.

462
00:18:14,180 --> 00:18:15,180
For sleeping?

463
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:16,180
Yes.

464
00:18:16,180 --> 00:18:20,980
But then like, I don't want to say it makes sense but I can see in Ted's mind like he

465
00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:24,780
sees his dad treating his aunt this way and then he goes and does the knife thing.

466
00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:25,780
Right.

467
00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:26,780
Like she's clearly the target here.

468
00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:27,780
Yeah.

469
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:28,780
So she's the one.

470
00:18:28,780 --> 00:18:29,780
She's the one that we're all targeting here.

471
00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:30,780
Yeah.

472
00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:32,060
And that's so awful.

473
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:36,500
So still talking about the grandfather, Ted would say that Samuel was known for speaking

474
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,020
out loud and to seemingly nobody.

475
00:18:39,020 --> 00:18:40,020
Okay.

476
00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:41,020
Like on occasion.

477
00:18:41,020 --> 00:18:43,860
So perhaps mental illness, perhaps just like rage.

478
00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:44,860
Yeah.

479
00:18:44,860 --> 00:18:45,860
Just kind of like yelling in the air.

480
00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:46,860
Like, this is Ted's account.

481
00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:47,860
Yes.

482
00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:52,460
And he maybe he's just like pissed and he's under his breath and maybe maybe.

483
00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:58,620
And he also said that Samuel was once questioned about the paternity of Ted and he flew into

484
00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:00,660
a rage according to Ted.

485
00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:04,980
So someone asked like, who is that boy's father and the grandfather like freaked out?

486
00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:05,980
Yeah.

487
00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:06,980
But okay.

488
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:07,980
So two things.

489
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:09,480
So do you think that Ted said that about his grandfather?

490
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,260
So it looked like that there was a family history of mental illness?

491
00:19:12,260 --> 00:19:13,260
A.

492
00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:20,180
And B, do you think that the question about Ted's father, do you think that he was really

493
00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:26,380
saying maybe he didn't want the identity of his mother to be revealed and that's why he

494
00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:27,380
was upset?

495
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:28,700
I don't know.

496
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:33,340
So I don't think that he made up anything mental illness wise about his grandparents

497
00:19:33,340 --> 00:19:37,460
because I think that I was, I obviously didn't put that in here, but there was like other

498
00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:41,980
accounts like from neighbors and stuff that like recognize Samuel's anger or rage at least.

499
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:42,980
Okay.

500
00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:47,620
So you know what the story was behind his dad or his grandpa getting upset when asked

501
00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:49,140
about the paternity of Ted?

502
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:50,140
Because that's all it said.

503
00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:54,940
Like it didn't say like why he got upset or if he said anything, it just said that he

504
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:55,940
flew into a rage.

505
00:19:55,940 --> 00:19:58,940
And again, this is all Ted just like mumbo jumbo just speaking.

506
00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:01,980
He could not have, that could have never happened and we don't know.

507
00:20:01,980 --> 00:20:02,980
Yeah.

508
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:04,540
Elliot Roger and the Starbucks Cubs.

509
00:20:04,540 --> 00:20:05,540
Exactly.

510
00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:07,740
That sounds like a book title.

511
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:10,300
The Elliot Roger and the Starbucks Cubs.

512
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:15,580
So Ted would also later describe his grandmother as a timid and obedient woman who underwent

513
00:20:15,580 --> 00:20:20,740
electroconvulsive therapy for depression and feared to leave the home towards the end of

514
00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:21,740
her life.

515
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:24,180
I need electro therapy after fucking hearing that.

516
00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:25,180
That's ridiculous.

517
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:26,180
We're barely in.

518
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:27,180
We're barely in.

519
00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:28,180
That's ridiculous.

520
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:29,180
This is just, he's three.

521
00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:30,180
He's three.

522
00:20:30,180 --> 00:20:31,180
Like this is, I told you.

523
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:33,180
My third birthday.

524
00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:34,180
Seriously.

525
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:35,180
Shit.

526
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:37,500
Electroshock therapy for depression.

527
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:38,500
Depression.

528
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:39,500
Okay.

529
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,860
So Ted, towards the end of her life, he said to her agoraphobia got like really bad.

530
00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:43,860
I'm sure.

531
00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:48,740
So around the age of three, again, in 1950, Louise had grown tired of her parents' treatment

532
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:53,220
of Ted, especially her father, and she decided that her and Ted would both leave the home

533
00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:54,220
together.

534
00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:57,060
Just to be clear, I keep switching between Eleanor and Louise.

535
00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:59,780
She went by Louise, so I'm probably going to refer to her as that.

536
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:00,780
Okay.

537
00:21:00,780 --> 00:21:01,780
From now on.

538
00:21:01,780 --> 00:21:02,780
But I don't know.

539
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:05,860
You know, I'm like really particular about like the first real name.

540
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:06,860
Right.

541
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:07,860
Ted.

542
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:08,860
I'm going to call him Ted the whole time.

543
00:21:08,860 --> 00:21:09,860
I'm going to be Teddie.

544
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:10,860
He's actually Bundy.

545
00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:11,860
Yeah.

546
00:21:11,860 --> 00:21:12,860
Yeah.

547
00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:18,140
So Louise and Ted alike would go by the surname Nelson in order to avoid questions, and the

548
00:21:18,140 --> 00:21:23,140
two would move to Tacoma, Washington and stay with her cousins, Alan and Jane Scott.

549
00:21:23,140 --> 00:21:24,140
Okay.

550
00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:29,140
Ted was noted as being very upset by the move and did not care for their new home or lifestyle.

551
00:21:29,140 --> 00:21:30,140
I mean, he's three.

552
00:21:30,140 --> 00:21:31,140
Why would you want to move away?

553
00:21:31,140 --> 00:21:32,140
Yeah.

554
00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:34,260
If you're three, you don't understand what that means.

555
00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:39,980
In 1951, so a year later, Louise met a hospital cook by the name of Johnny Cole Pepper Bundy

556
00:21:39,980 --> 00:21:44,540
at an adult singles night at Tacoma's first Methodist Church.

557
00:21:44,540 --> 00:21:45,540
Cole Pepper.

558
00:21:45,540 --> 00:21:46,540
Love that.

559
00:21:46,540 --> 00:21:47,540
Ready for the next line?

560
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:48,540
No.

561
00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:49,540
The two would move away.

562
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:51,540
They'd get very ill.

563
00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:55,580
The following year, and they would formally adopt Ted, changing his last name to Bundy

564
00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:56,580
permanently.

565
00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:57,580
Okay.

566
00:21:57,580 --> 00:22:02,100
It was known that Ted was very upset and jealous of this relationship, and he actually once

567
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:06,980
threw a public tantrum in a seers, wetting his pants as part of the production.

568
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:08,940
Again, he's fucking three.

569
00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:09,940
Whoooa!

570
00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:10,940
Yeah.

571
00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:16,580
Whatever, yeah, whatever will come out to shed himself.

572
00:22:16,580 --> 00:22:20,540
Despite this outburst, Johnny and Louise would go on to have four more children together,

573
00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:23,980
and as much as Johnny tried to include Ted in their activities, Ted and him just did

574
00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:24,980
not have a good relationship.

575
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:26,780
He just spited him.

576
00:22:26,780 --> 00:22:27,780
He's like, I don't...

577
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:28,780
Despised him is what I meant to say.

578
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:29,780
He just didn't care.

579
00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:30,780
Yeah.

580
00:22:30,780 --> 00:22:31,780
Ted, not the dad.

581
00:22:31,780 --> 00:22:32,780
Not the dad.

582
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:33,780
Whoa.

583
00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:34,780
Ted, not the dad.

584
00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:37,620
That happens to me a lot at the end of the day.

585
00:22:37,620 --> 00:22:41,140
Ted was known as always wanting expensive designer clothing that Johnny simply could

586
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:45,180
not afford, and Ted despised him for not being able to give him anything and everything he

587
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:46,180
wanted.

588
00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:47,180
And he's what?

589
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:48,180
He's like...

590
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:49,180
Five?

591
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:50,180
And this is like growing up.

592
00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:51,180
Oh, just growing up.

593
00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:52,180
I see, okay.

594
00:22:52,180 --> 00:22:56,460
Ted would frequently fantasize about being adopted by Western stars, Roy Rogers and Dale

595
00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:59,860
Evans, because they would be able to give him the things that he wanted.

596
00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:02,260
This is Elliot Roger, that's so weird.

597
00:23:02,260 --> 00:23:07,580
Elliot Roger was very much like, oh, my dad chose this modest life over when dude was

598
00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:09,860
like art director for the fucking Hunger Games.

599
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:10,860
Yeah.

600
00:23:10,860 --> 00:23:11,860
Like, what?

601
00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:12,860
That's a modest...

602
00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:13,980
How much more rich do you want him to be?

603
00:23:13,980 --> 00:23:15,460
He wanted to be really rich.

604
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:16,660
For real.

605
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:21,620
As Ted tells it, his childhood was, quote, a mix of football practice, fishing off the

606
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:26,180
pier with his friends, and sharing countless adventures with his closest pals.

607
00:23:26,180 --> 00:23:29,100
It was the summer of 69.

608
00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,500
That's what I have in my head.

609
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:36,380
It wasn't yet, but it just sounds so classic American, you know?

610
00:23:36,380 --> 00:23:40,700
So one of his childhood neighbors growing up, her name is Sandy Holt, she would describe

611
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:44,900
Ted much differently, stating, quote, he liked to terrify people.

612
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:46,300
He liked to be in charge.

613
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,220
He liked to inflict pain and suffering and fear.

614
00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:53,620
So he's like, I was just going down to the soda fountain with my buddies and we were

615
00:23:53,620 --> 00:23:55,020
just skipping rocks in the pond.

616
00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:57,180
And he's like, no, you were torturing people.

617
00:23:57,180 --> 00:23:59,540
I saw you swing that cat by its tail.

618
00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:00,540
Yes.

619
00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:05,540
She would continue on during an interview, quote, it was not a happy childhood for Ted.

620
00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:07,300
He wasn't one of the guys.

621
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:11,540
He was skinny and very girly looking, and he only accentuated it by wearing really short

622
00:24:11,540 --> 00:24:15,100
shorts and boys didn't wear short shorts, girls did.

623
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:16,820
What year was this?

624
00:24:16,820 --> 00:24:19,180
I think this is like in the fifth, like maybe like late fifties.

625
00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:20,180
Okay.

626
00:24:20,180 --> 00:24:22,620
So I guess it wasn't that common for men to be wearing short shorts.

627
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:23,620
Maybe he thought he was European.

628
00:24:23,620 --> 00:24:25,060
Maybe he was going for the European look.

629
00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:26,060
Maybe so.

630
00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:27,540
I think it was fashionable.

631
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:29,340
It was at, I don't know.

632
00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:30,340
I don't know.

633
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:31,340
It was in Milan.

634
00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:33,340
He was just trying to be cool.

635
00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:34,340
Yeah.

636
00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:38,460
So Sandy would continue to live close to Ted until the age of 15.

637
00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:43,060
And she would also state, quote, for a long time he had a horrible speech impediment and

638
00:24:43,060 --> 00:24:45,300
some words he just plain couldn't pronounce.

639
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:46,900
So it was very hard to understand him.

640
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:48,900
Oh, I know it sucks, dude.

641
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:50,580
It's like breaking my heart.

642
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:53,980
This guy's got zero chance of survival here.

643
00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:57,900
She would also recall one of Ted's particularly violent acts as a child.

644
00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:59,900
Like the nimes weren't enough.

645
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:00,900
I'm sorry.

646
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:01,900
This is worse.

647
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:02,900
Okay.

648
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:05,180
Quote, he hung one of the stray cats in the neighborhood from one of the clotheslines in

649
00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:09,180
the backyard, doused it in lighter fluid and set it on fire.

650
00:25:09,180 --> 00:25:11,300
And I heard that cat squealing.

651
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:14,900
And by the time somebody got out there with a hose, the cat was gone.

652
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:17,900
That was just too much shock for the poor thing.

653
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:18,900
Yeah.

654
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:19,900
And quote.

655
00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:20,900
And quote.

656
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:21,900
Yeah.

657
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:22,900
Yeah, it wasn't an idea.

658
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:23,900
It was just me.

659
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:24,900
It was horrible.

660
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:29,180
Like when you said that he hung a cat up on a wire, I thought you meant he like the cat

661
00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:30,180
was dead.

662
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:31,180
Yeah.

663
00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:32,180
No, it was alive.

664
00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:33,680
He like hung it by like its legs or something.

665
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,680
I think.

666
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,680
Horrid.

667
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:36,680
Yeah.

668
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,680
That is fucking appalling.

669
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:38,680
Yeah.

670
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:44,620
It outside in like the front yard, like just in the neighborhood, like no one fucking is

671
00:25:44,620 --> 00:25:45,620
around.

672
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:46,620
Let me guess.

673
00:25:46,620 --> 00:25:47,620
No one did anything.

674
00:25:47,620 --> 00:25:48,620
Oh, fucking no.

675
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:51,140
Of course not.

676
00:25:51,140 --> 00:25:55,940
Mandy would go on to comment on Ted's bullying of young kids in the neighborhood woods stating

677
00:25:55,940 --> 00:26:00,460
quote, he'd take them out there and strip them down, take their clothes.

678
00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:02,220
You'd hear them screaming for blocks.

679
00:26:02,220 --> 00:26:05,700
I mean, no matter where we were here, we could hear them screaming.

680
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:06,700
What?

681
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,220
And nothing was done again.

682
00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:09,220
So he would take.

683
00:26:09,220 --> 00:26:10,620
Boys will be boys.

684
00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:11,620
Yeah.

685
00:26:11,620 --> 00:26:14,900
He would like take younger boys into the woods, strip them naked and then run away with their

686
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:17,580
clothes and then they would be naked having like get home.

687
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:20,020
I mean, we used to kind of do that when people would skinny dip.

688
00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:25,060
But in the middle of the night and you're all skinny, you're all the same age and it's

689
00:26:25,060 --> 00:26:27,860
funny to throw somebody's clothes like a parent trap moment.

690
00:26:27,860 --> 00:26:28,860
Yeah.

691
00:26:28,860 --> 00:26:32,420
Where they have to run all the way up, you know, towards the cars to get there.

692
00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:33,420
That's different though.

693
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:34,420
That's not like hazing.

694
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:35,420
That's not children.

695
00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:37,420
Oh, God, that's awful.

696
00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:39,220
Yeah, it's terrible.

697
00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:43,980
The refusal to make nice with his new family and friends called Ted caused Ted to experience

698
00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:47,580
more severe mental health issues around this time as well.

699
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:50,340
So I'm sure you've heard me say Dr. Lewis a bunch of times, she's going to keep coming

700
00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:51,340
up.

701
00:26:51,340 --> 00:26:53,060
So just remember that's the psychiatrist in the beginning.

702
00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:57,420
So it was around this time that Dr. Lewis hypothesized that Ted's childhood in Tacoma

703
00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:03,380
was riddled by a bipolar mood disorder causing random and sometimes violent mood swings.

704
00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:09,260
So very young mental illness, hypothesization by, uh, hypothesization, however you say that

705
00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:10,500
word, by a doctor.

706
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:11,500
Hypothesis.

707
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:12,500
Hypothesis.

708
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:13,500
Hypothesis.

709
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,500
I don't know.

710
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,900
But the psychiatrist would later agree that Ted suffered from a mood disorder, something

711
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:20,500
that they would bring to trial way later on.

712
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,500
Okay.

713
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:25,300
Ted's social life was also lacking in school and according to some peers, he was teased

714
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:28,740
a lot for his speech impediment and the fact that he could not keep up with his fellow

715
00:27:28,740 --> 00:27:30,900
male classmates.

716
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:34,540
Ted would ultimately hear the rumors that were being talked about him later in life

717
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:39,340
and comment, quote, I hear this, that I used to jump out from behind bushes and scare my

718
00:27:39,340 --> 00:27:42,500
friends and I mean, come on, give me a break.

719
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:45,300
Jumping out from behind bushes was never my thing.

720
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:49,180
People, I know, quote, people won't want to feel like they've been fooled, like they

721
00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:51,460
know someone and yet they didn't know them.

722
00:27:51,460 --> 00:27:52,580
People are fishing around.

723
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:53,580
They want a hook.

724
00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:55,020
They want a smoking gun.

725
00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:57,940
They want cause and effect and it's not going to be there.

726
00:27:57,940 --> 00:27:58,940
End quote.

727
00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:03,980
So he thinks that because somebody testified that he would jump out and scare people when

728
00:28:03,980 --> 00:28:10,300
he was buying a bush meant that they were saying like falsehoods about him and this is, this

729
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:12,380
is not, come on, I would never do that.

730
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:15,260
It's one of those things where he's like, yeah, I strangled all those people, but I

731
00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:17,060
would never fucking hide behind a bush.

732
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:18,060
That's so dumb.

733
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:20,380
I'm like a live cat on a fucking clothes hanger.

734
00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:21,380
Yeah, I did that.

735
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:22,380
A clothesline.

736
00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:25,500
I did that, but I jumping out of bushes, not my style.

737
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,780
Like, why are you worried about that?

738
00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:29,780
He's like bragging.

739
00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:30,780
Exactly.

740
00:28:30,780 --> 00:28:31,780
Which is gross.

741
00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:32,780
He's like, that's like petty.

742
00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:33,780
Like that's like not cool enough.

743
00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:34,780
It's beneath me.

744
00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:36,300
It's beneath me.

745
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:41,420
Although Ted was described as shy and introverted, he was also described as narcissistic and

746
00:28:41,420 --> 00:28:45,900
egotistical, which is not really things that you see paired a lot.

747
00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:50,100
He considered himself above the law when he reached his teen years, like they usually

748
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:51,100
do.

749
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:52,580
Well, he had never, nothing had ever happened.

750
00:28:52,580 --> 00:28:53,580
That's true.

751
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:54,580
Nothing had ever come to fruition.

752
00:28:54,580 --> 00:28:57,660
He's been terrorizing people for fucking years, killing cats and all kinds of neighborhood

753
00:28:57,660 --> 00:29:00,300
animals and torturing the kids and no trouble.

754
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:01,980
Of course he grew up that way.

755
00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:06,380
And at the age of 15, he would have been involved, excuse me, in criminal experiences

756
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:08,900
while stealing an array of items.

757
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:12,380
So he stated around this time that he would roam around his neighborhood and pick through

758
00:29:12,380 --> 00:29:16,700
trash barrels looking for any photos of naked women that he could find.

759
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:18,940
Like yeah, you're going to find that in every person's trash.

760
00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:21,540
I'm going to be, yeah.

761
00:29:21,540 --> 00:29:24,340
I'm going through trash barrels to look for porn.

762
00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:26,340
And if they're decent photos, why would they be in the trash?

763
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:27,340
Yeah, exactly.

764
00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:28,340
No one's throwing that shit out.

765
00:29:28,340 --> 00:29:29,820
They end up porn establishments back there.

766
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:31,020
That's where you go look for the trash.

767
00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:32,020
Yeah, right.

768
00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:33,020
I don't know.

769
00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:36,780
He would also admit to biographers, again, Steven and Hugh from earlier, that he would peruse

770
00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:40,980
any detective magazines, crime novels, and true crime documentaries he could get his

771
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:45,780
hands on, and especially lean towards ones that depicted sexual violence and deceased

772
00:29:45,780 --> 00:29:46,780
women.

773
00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:47,780
Okay.

774
00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:48,780
So he would like research true crime.

775
00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:49,780
Like we're doing right now.

776
00:29:49,780 --> 00:29:50,780
Yeah.

777
00:29:50,780 --> 00:29:51,780
I don't know.

778
00:29:51,780 --> 00:29:55,060
However, in a differing story, he would later tell biographer and true crime writer Ann

779
00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:59,780
Ruhl, remember his old co-worker, these three sets of people are going to keep coming up.

780
00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:01,780
So yeah, I'm just going to keep reminding you.

781
00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:02,780
Which is great.

782
00:30:02,780 --> 00:30:03,780
I like the way that you've structured it honestly.

783
00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:04,780
Yeah.

784
00:30:04,780 --> 00:30:08,780
It's definitely, we're getting all of the detail for that period of his life.

785
00:30:08,780 --> 00:30:10,580
We don't find this out later.

786
00:30:10,580 --> 00:30:11,580
You know?

787
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:12,580
Exactly.

788
00:30:12,580 --> 00:30:13,580
Yeah.

789
00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:16,540
So he would tell Ann Ruhl again in a differing story that he quote, never ever read fact

790
00:30:16,540 --> 00:30:20,900
detective magazines and shuddered at the thought that anyone would.

791
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:25,220
So you're telling these biographers that you did that and now you're telling Ann that you

792
00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:26,740
didn't and that's beneath him.

793
00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:27,740
That's beneath me.

794
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:29,240
Again, completely differing.

795
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,740
I have my own brain.

796
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:33,780
I don't need to look at that shit.

797
00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:34,780
Right?

798
00:30:34,780 --> 00:30:38,900
In the same interview with Stephen and Hugh, he would admit that he consumed large quantities

799
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:44,660
of alcohol and would quote, canvass the community late at night in search of undraped windows

800
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:50,300
where he could observe women undressing or quote, whatever else could be seen.

801
00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:51,980
Like chicks clipping their toenails?

802
00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:52,980
Yeah.

803
00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:55,820
Like what are you looking for specifically?

804
00:30:55,820 --> 00:31:00,820
It was around this time that some experts say Ted began to escalate his criminal activity

805
00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:04,420
due to changes in his mind.

806
00:31:04,420 --> 00:31:09,380
Psychologist Al Carlisle stated about these acts quote, he started fantasizing about women

807
00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:14,780
he saw while window peeping or elsewhere and mimicking the accents of some politicians

808
00:31:14,780 --> 00:31:17,140
he listened to on the radio.

809
00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:21,900
In essence, he was fantasizing about being someone else, someone important.

810
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:22,900
And quote.

811
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:23,900
Okay.

812
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:27,700
And if anybody listening knows about Ted Bundy, you know that he's super into politics later

813
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:28,700
in his life.

814
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:31,740
It's just interesting that he comments it on that at a young age.

815
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:34,540
I don't, I'm sure you're going to touch on that at some point, but didn't he want to

816
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:35,540
be a lawyer?

817
00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:36,540
Yeah, he went to law school.

818
00:31:36,540 --> 00:31:37,540
Oh, he did?

819
00:31:37,540 --> 00:31:38,540
Yeah.

820
00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:39,540
Well, he didn't finish law school.

821
00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:40,540
Spoilers.

822
00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:45,420
The criminologist and doctor Scott Bond would recognize that this time of early stalking

823
00:31:45,420 --> 00:31:51,620
correlated with other serial murderers such as Dennis Rader or BTK and Joseph DiAngelo

824
00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:53,380
or the Golden State Killer.

825
00:31:53,380 --> 00:31:54,380
Panty Rader.

826
00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:55,860
Because they both did these things as well.

827
00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:56,860
Dennis Panty Rader.

828
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:57,860
Dennis Panty Rader.

829
00:31:57,860 --> 00:31:58,860
I'll never forget it.

830
00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:03,580
He would state about this quote, it's a violation of privacy and it does lend itself to power

831
00:32:03,580 --> 00:32:05,140
and control.

832
00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:09,540
Bundy and BTK were all about power and domination and control.

833
00:32:09,540 --> 00:32:10,540
End quote.

834
00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:15,060
How to get that out.

835
00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:19,900
In some interviews, Ted would describe himself as a purposeful loner as an adolescent, stating

836
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:25,260
that he quote, chose to be alone, end quote, because he was unable to understand interpersonal

837
00:32:25,260 --> 00:32:27,180
relationships.

838
00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:32,060
I guess, and that makes sense because as we'll find out in part two, but all kind of pepper

839
00:32:32,060 --> 00:32:37,420
in here now is that a lot of people have diagnosed him as a psychopath, which is like not really,

840
00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:39,140
it's kind of like a redundant statement.

841
00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:44,780
But that, the fact that he can say like, I don't understand interpersonal relationships

842
00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:49,820
and just know that to be true, but also like admit it, like that's honestly like a sign

843
00:32:49,820 --> 00:32:53,020
of being like an empathy-less person.

844
00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:56,660
Well, that's interesting that he says that because he tries to emulate it.

845
00:32:56,660 --> 00:32:57,660
Yes, you know what I mean?

846
00:32:57,660 --> 00:33:00,940
Yes, like he knows he's not capable of doing it, but he emulates it really well.

847
00:33:00,940 --> 00:33:05,580
Well, and that's one of the scary things about him is that he can fake it.

848
00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:09,780
And like a lot of those emotions are really hard to fake, but not for him.

849
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:14,060
He would claim that he had no real idea of how to obtain a real friendship with peers,

850
00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:17,300
stating quote, I didn't know what made people want to be friends.

851
00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:22,060
I didn't know what underlay social interactions, end quote.

852
00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:25,700
Despite these claims, classmates of Ted's at Woodrow Wilson High School would state that

853
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:30,980
Ted was quote, well-known and well-liked, calling him a quote, medium-sized fish and

854
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:32,980
a large pond.

855
00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:33,980
Interesting, right?

856
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:37,700
Like he's like a twerp, but they were like, yeah, he just seemed like an average person.

857
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:42,060
Yeah, he's pretty making his way downtown, walking fast, faces fast.

858
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:44,380
He's like, I can't make any friends.

859
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:50,340
Sandy, childhood friend, or childhood neighbor, would recall about this time quote, he tried

860
00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:52,100
to fool you and lie to you.

861
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:53,340
He wasn't athletic.

862
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:57,700
He wanted to be the number one in the class, but he wasn't, end quote.

863
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:58,700
So again, deceitful.

864
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:02,620
He's like, they're making up lies about me.

865
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:06,980
Ted would later state as well, there's a lot of quotes, so quote, some people perceive

866
00:34:06,980 --> 00:34:08,900
me as being shy and introverted.

867
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:10,220
I didn't go to dances.

868
00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:12,340
I didn't go on the beer drinking outings.

869
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:17,620
I was a pretty, you might call me straight, but not a social outcast in any way.

870
00:34:17,620 --> 00:34:19,060
Like he's saying he's like straight edge.

871
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:20,900
Yeah, yeah, end quote.

872
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:22,900
Well, that wasn't it.

873
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:25,620
You didn't say like he's saying you straight out.

874
00:34:25,620 --> 00:34:28,020
It's just a mainstream term.

875
00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:29,740
We're not really anymore.

876
00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:34,100
As far as girls around this time goes, Ted would later state quote, it wasn't that I

877
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,220
disliked women or were afraid of them.

878
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:40,100
It was just that I didn't seem to have an inkling as to what to do about them, end quote.

879
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:41,340
God, it's so Elliot Roger.

880
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:42,340
I'm so sorry.

881
00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:46,820
Like I hate comparing the two so much, but it sounds I was thinking that too when I was

882
00:34:46,820 --> 00:34:47,820
researching this.

883
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:52,700
I feel that way about Elliot Roger that I don't think that it was that he had an

884
00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:54,340
actual attraction to women.

885
00:34:54,340 --> 00:34:59,740
I think that it was the idea behind it, like what made sense societally and then for him

886
00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:04,380
not to, to he built it up in his head that he was being rejected.

887
00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:07,660
You know, and then, but Timothy Mve was also that way too, remember where he's like, no,

888
00:35:07,660 --> 00:35:12,220
this is a decision I'm making and do with people not being attracted to me.

889
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:16,700
So although Ted didn't play any significant sports after not making the school basketball

890
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:22,380
or baseball teams, he was known as being very good at downhill skiing, something he would

891
00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:27,260
pursue seriously while using stolen equipment and forged lift tickets.

892
00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:28,260
Okay.

893
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:32,540
So he's got a hobby.

894
00:35:32,540 --> 00:35:37,980
While he was in high school, Ted was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary and motor vehicle

895
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:39,180
theft.

896
00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:44,940
These charges would later be expunged when Ted turned 18 due to current laws at the time.

897
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:47,300
So he had lots of hobbies, not just skiing.

898
00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:48,300
Yeah, exactly.

899
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:50,100
He's breaking burglary.

900
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:52,460
Burglaring, turd burglaring.

901
00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:54,460
Yeah, Ted burglaring.

902
00:35:54,460 --> 00:35:57,700
Ted burglaring.

903
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:02,500
After graduating high school in 1965, Ted went on to attend the University of Puget Sound

904
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:07,180
for one year before transferring to the University of Washington to study Chinese.

905
00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:08,180
Interesting.

906
00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:10,700
So you really into just Chinese culture?

907
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:11,700
I guess.

908
00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:12,700
I'm not sure.

909
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:13,700
I didn't really elaborate.

910
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:17,620
That was like something he was really interested in, at least studying the language.

911
00:36:17,620 --> 00:36:23,060
In 1967, he would become romantically involved with fellow classmate, Diane Edwards, who

912
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:26,780
was referred to commonly in his documentaries as Stephanie Brooks.

913
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:27,780
Okay.

914
00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:28,780
Why?

915
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:31,740
An alias, kind of like a pseudonym, I guess, just to...

916
00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:35,540
But now that it's public record, I felt like it was appropriate for you to use her real

917
00:36:35,540 --> 00:36:36,620
name.

918
00:36:36,620 --> 00:36:39,980
But I will be referring to her as Stephanie because it's the most common name that she's

919
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:40,980
known by.

920
00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:41,980
Okay.

921
00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:43,380
So anybody that's listening that's like, Diane, that doesn't make sense.

922
00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:44,380
It's not the person.

923
00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:45,380
It's Stephanie.

924
00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:46,380
Okay.

925
00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:50,300
So when he was described as a beautiful young girl with long dark hair that she wore in

926
00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:54,820
a middle part, we all know that's like the classic Ted Bundy thing.

927
00:36:54,820 --> 00:36:55,820
Is it?

928
00:36:55,820 --> 00:36:56,820
He loves that.

929
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:57,820
Oh yeah.

930
00:36:57,820 --> 00:36:58,820
I didn't know that.

931
00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:01,900
He was all about the long dark hair with the middle part.

932
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:04,420
And I'll just go ahead and say this.

933
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:12,380
At his execution plot twist, there was women outside that purposely did their hair like

934
00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:13,380
that.

935
00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:14,380
Died it.

936
00:37:14,380 --> 00:37:15,380
They wanted to look like his victims.

937
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:16,380
It was really gross.

938
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:18,100
Oh, like a fan club?

939
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:19,100
Yes.

940
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:20,100
Ew.

941
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:21,900
I thought they meant like haunting him.

942
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:22,900
You know?

943
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:23,900
Oh, gross.

944
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:24,900
Yeah.

945
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:25,900
They like loved him.

946
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:26,900
Ew.

947
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:27,900
I'll talk about that in part two.

948
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:28,900
Okay.

949
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:29,900
I don't like that.

950
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:32,900
I know.

951
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:36,540
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952
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958
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While Ted fell very hard and fast for Stephanie, she seemed to view the relationship as more

959
00:38:07,220 --> 00:38:09,740
of like a casual affair.

960
00:38:09,740 --> 00:38:13,340
Still dating Stephanie but not believing he was in the right spot, Ted would shortly

961
00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:18,220
drop out of college and return back to the East Coast in 1968.

962
00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:22,220
He would work a series of minimum wage jobs but quickly found himself very interested

963
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:27,100
in politics and would volunteer at the Seattle office of Nelson Rockefeller's presidential

964
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:28,660
campaign.

965
00:38:28,660 --> 00:38:33,100
He would also become Arthur Fletcher's driver and bodyguard during his campaign for lieutenant

966
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:34,860
governor of Washington state.

967
00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:36,380
It's a bodyguard.

968
00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:43,740
Just thinking about his campaign and be like, don't get caught dead, not voting for Ted.

969
00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:44,740
Seriously.

970
00:38:44,740 --> 00:38:50,820
It's like if you don't vote for me, you're gonna be sorry.

971
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:55,660
The same year, Ted would receive a scholarship to study Chinese at Stanford University that

972
00:38:55,660 --> 00:38:57,420
summer.

973
00:38:57,420 --> 00:39:02,220
Beginning in August, Ted would attend the 1968 Republican National Convention in Miami

974
00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:03,740
as a Rockefeller delegate.

975
00:39:03,740 --> 00:39:05,660
Don't be a cunt, vote for Bundy.

976
00:39:05,660 --> 00:39:06,660
A cuntie.

977
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:13,100
Shortly after this, Stephanie would ultimately break up with Ted just a year into their relationship,

978
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:16,900
describing his immaturity and lack of ambition as the main reasons.

979
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:22,140
Dr. Lewis would later hypothesize that this may have been quote, the pivotal time in his

980
00:39:22,140 --> 00:39:23,140
development.

981
00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:24,140
End quote.

982
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:26,460
Again, the breakup.

983
00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:30,900
Ted was absolutely devastated by this breakup and he decided to move to Colorado at first

984
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:35,380
and then further east, first to Arkansas to visit relatives and then to Philadelphia

985
00:39:35,380 --> 00:39:39,780
where he enrolled in Temple University to study law.

986
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:44,500
So very clearly trying to find a place that he feels like he belongs.

987
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:47,340
This is around the time that it's thought that Ted found out the true nature of his

988
00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:50,820
conception or at least that his quote sister was actually his mother.

989
00:39:50,820 --> 00:39:55,060
So again, when he moved back, he was kind of like with relatives and find the birth certificate.

990
00:39:55,060 --> 00:39:58,060
That story is kind of, you know, iffy.

991
00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:01,700
Yet another failed attempt at a degree would leave Ted traveling back to Washington by

992
00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:04,820
the fall of 1969.

993
00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:08,940
After returning, he would meet a woman by the name of Elizabeth Klopfer.

994
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:13,140
She was commonly referred to by multiple names in his various documentaries, similarly to

995
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:18,340
Stephanie, including Meg Anders, Beth Archer, and Liz Kendall.

996
00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:21,180
So he just gives them aliases?

997
00:40:21,180 --> 00:40:22,180
I don't think so.

998
00:40:22,180 --> 00:40:25,780
I think it was like originally to protect their identities, but now that it's public

999
00:40:25,780 --> 00:40:30,060
record so many years later, then we know their real names.

1000
00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:34,340
Or who knows, it could have very well been Bundy using different names for these women

1001
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:36,380
because he didn't want people to know his true story.

1002
00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:37,380
Exactly.

1003
00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:42,180
I don't know exactly why, but I just know I want to give all the information I can.

1004
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:44,540
But I'm going to refer to her as Liz.

1005
00:40:44,540 --> 00:40:49,380
So Liz was a single mother from Ogden, Utah, who was working as a secretary at the UW School

1006
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:50,700
of Medicine.

1007
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,060
She was raising a three-year-old daughter named Molly when she met Ted, and he would

1008
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:57,140
quickly become a father figure to the young girl.

1009
00:40:57,140 --> 00:41:01,780
Unfortunately, the cycle of abuse did not end with Ted, and he would be accused years

1010
00:41:01,780 --> 00:41:07,100
later by Molly of sexually and physically assaulting her from a young age.

1011
00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:11,460
She would also state that Ted hit her in the face, knocking her down, put her at risk of

1012
00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:17,260
drowning, involved her in indecent exposure, and would commonly disguise sexual assault

1013
00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:19,500
as accidents or games.

1014
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:20,500
What?

1015
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:21,500
Which is fucked up.

1016
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:22,500
Jesus.

1017
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:23,500
I'm sorry.

1018
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:28,460
I had to react one more time.

1019
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:33,860
In mid-1970, Ted would re-enroll in the University of Washington, seemingly changing his tune

1020
00:41:33,860 --> 00:41:36,780
to goal-oriented and focused.

1021
00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:41,500
This time he would be pursuing a psychology degree.

1022
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:45,620
He would be able to turn his college career around and ended up becoming a highly regarded

1023
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:48,620
honors student among the professors.

1024
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:54,700
In 1971, he would begin a new job at Seattle's Suicide Hotline Crisis Center, and while working

1025
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:58,420
there, he would meet fellow co-worker Ann Rule.

1026
00:41:58,420 --> 00:41:59,420
It all comes from a circle.

1027
00:41:59,420 --> 00:42:00,420
It all comes from a together.

1028
00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:02,420
The arts are all through from a little bit.

1029
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:04,420
Obviously, this name sounds familiar.

1030
00:42:04,420 --> 00:42:07,860
As we know, Ann was an old co-worker of Bundy's.

1031
00:42:07,860 --> 00:42:11,940
She was a former police officer at the time as well, but was an aspiring true crime writer

1032
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:15,900
who would later become very well known for her biography of Ted entitled The Stranger

1033
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:16,900
Beside Me.

1034
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:17,900
Hmm.

1035
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:18,900
It's actually really good.

1036
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:19,900
Didn't they make a movie on that too?

1037
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:21,300
I think so, yeah.

1038
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:25,820
This would not become apparent to Ann until much later, however, and she admitted to not

1039
00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:31,300
seeing anything disturbing about Ted's personality at first, and in fact, referred to him as,

1040
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:33,820
quote, kind, solicitous, and empathetic.

1041
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:34,820
Okay.

1042
00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:40,660
After graduating with his psychology degree in 1972, Ted immediately joined Governor

1043
00:42:40,660 --> 00:42:43,500
Daniel J. Evans' reelection campaign.

1044
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,460
Oh, hard, that's a hard sentence.

1045
00:42:46,460 --> 00:42:48,460
It's a lot.

1046
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:53,180
Part of his job included posing as a college student and shadowing Evans' opponent, former

1047
00:42:53,180 --> 00:42:55,380
Governor Albert Rosalini.

1048
00:42:55,380 --> 00:43:01,020
He would record his speeches and return them to Evans' campaign for analysis, which is

1049
00:43:01,020 --> 00:43:09,140
like, that's like, what's it like, sly, like, you know, like, due to his, yeah, sneaky, due

1050
00:43:09,140 --> 00:43:13,900
to his great helpfulness, Ted was appointed to the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory Committee

1051
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:16,100
by Evans himself.

1052
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:18,100
Crime Prevention Committee.

1053
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:19,900
Who else was like that?

1054
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:20,900
Somebody else was like that.

1055
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:21,900
BTK.

1056
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:22,900
BTK, yeah, he was part of Neighborhood Watch, right?

1057
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:26,780
Remember he like arrested like Paula Deen's dog, not Paula Deen, what's her name?

1058
00:43:26,780 --> 00:43:27,780
Dog?

1059
00:43:27,780 --> 00:43:28,780
Barbara Walters.

1060
00:43:28,780 --> 00:43:30,780
Remember he like gave her a ticket because her dog was like, oh, I was just joking.

1061
00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:31,780
I said, arrested.

1062
00:43:31,780 --> 00:43:32,780
Yeah, blah, blah.

1063
00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:33,780
I don't want Paula Deen.

1064
00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:34,780
What the fuck?

1065
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:35,780
Paula Deen.

1066
00:43:35,780 --> 00:43:36,780
Is that the barefoot contestant?

1067
00:43:36,780 --> 00:43:37,780
I have no idea.

1068
00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:38,780
Okay.

1069
00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:43,740
After Evans was reelected, he would hire Ted as an assistant to Ross Davis, chairman of

1070
00:43:43,740 --> 00:43:46,380
the Washington State Republican Party.

1071
00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:51,500
Davis recalled thinking very highly of Ted and described him as, quote, smart, aggressive,

1072
00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:53,100
and a believer in the system.

1073
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:55,300
Yeah, you just want a fucking follower.

1074
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:56,300
Yeah.

1075
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:57,300
That's all you want.

1076
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:58,300
Yeah.

1077
00:43:58,300 --> 00:43:59,300
Someone that's not going to question you.

1078
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:05,700
In early 1973, despite average LSAT scores, Ted was accepted into the law schools of UPS

1079
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:07,300
and the University of Utah.

1080
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:09,500
I don't know, UPS had a law school.

1081
00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:10,500
I'm kidding.

1082
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,300
It's Seattle University School of Law.

1083
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:13,300
Okay.

1084
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:14,300
So they didn't have to wear brown shorts.

1085
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:15,300
Yeah.

1086
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:16,300
I thought that too.

1087
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:17,300
I was like, what the hell?

1088
00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:19,300
What the hell is that?

1089
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:24,300
So again, he had average LSAT scores, but he was able to get into two of these schools,

1090
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:30,140
mostly due to highly strong recommendation letters from both Evans and Davis and several

1091
00:44:30,140 --> 00:44:33,340
professors from the University of Washington.

1092
00:44:33,340 --> 00:44:38,660
In the summer of 1973, Ted went on a business trip to California with the Republican Party.

1093
00:44:38,660 --> 00:44:42,740
And who would he run into but his old girlfriend, Stephanie?

1094
00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:45,940
Stephanie was so surprised when she reconnected with the man in front of her.

1095
00:44:45,940 --> 00:44:50,660
Gone was this lack of motivation and this was a whole new look for Ted.

1096
00:44:50,660 --> 00:44:55,060
Stephanie jumped at the opportunity to rekindle their relationship and Ted had no reservations

1097
00:44:55,060 --> 00:44:56,060
about it himself.

1098
00:44:56,060 --> 00:44:57,060
Yeah.

1099
00:44:57,060 --> 00:44:58,700
He didn't want to break up in the first place.

1100
00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:02,780
Ted would begin to see Stephanie again, all the while maintaining his relationship with

1101
00:45:02,780 --> 00:45:05,300
Liz and her child.

1102
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:06,300
Okay.

1103
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:10,420
It was like, what was his name?

1104
00:45:10,420 --> 00:45:11,420
Fernando.

1105
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:12,420
Fernando.

1106
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:13,420
Raymond Fernandez?

1107
00:45:13,420 --> 00:45:14,420
Raymond Fernandez.

1108
00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:15,420
Yes.

1109
00:45:15,420 --> 00:45:16,420
Fernando.

1110
00:45:16,420 --> 00:45:19,860
We're gonna just break down to Lady Gaga.

1111
00:45:19,860 --> 00:45:20,860
That's Alejandro.

1112
00:45:20,860 --> 00:45:21,860
Oh, okay.

1113
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:22,860
My bad.

1114
00:45:22,860 --> 00:45:24,420
Fernando Alejandro.

1115
00:45:24,420 --> 00:45:25,420
Yeah.

1116
00:45:25,420 --> 00:45:26,420
Sounds similar.

1117
00:45:26,420 --> 00:45:27,420
Yeah.

1118
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:30,940
While he was attending school, Ted would frequently see Stephanie and she would even come visit

1119
00:45:30,940 --> 00:45:34,300
him numerous times in Seattle and stay with him.

1120
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:38,940
The two would even discuss getting married and at one point, he even introduced Stephanie

1121
00:45:38,940 --> 00:45:42,340
to Ross Davis as his fiance.

1122
00:45:42,340 --> 00:45:43,340
All the while dating Liz.

1123
00:45:43,340 --> 00:45:44,340
All the way, yeah.

1124
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:45,340
Yeah.

1125
00:45:45,340 --> 00:45:50,860
In January of 1974, Ted abruptly cut off all contact with Stephanie.

1126
00:45:50,860 --> 00:45:52,820
Her phone calls and letters were left unanswered.

1127
00:45:52,820 --> 00:45:53,820
Oh, I'd be pissed.

1128
00:45:53,820 --> 00:45:55,740
I'd be fucking pissed.

1129
00:45:55,740 --> 00:46:00,980
She would continue to try and contact him for nearly a month until she finally got through.

1130
00:46:00,980 --> 00:46:05,180
Once he answered, Stephanie demanded to know why he had cut contact off with her so suddenly

1131
00:46:05,180 --> 00:46:06,180
and without explanation.

1132
00:46:06,180 --> 00:46:08,820
I figured it would be the girlfriend that would answer the phone.

1133
00:46:08,820 --> 00:46:09,820
Classic.

1134
00:46:09,820 --> 00:46:13,020
Ted was noted as responding in a flat, calm voice.

1135
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:14,020
Quote.

1136
00:46:14,020 --> 00:46:16,020
Man, I have no idea what you mean.

1137
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:17,020
I have no idea.

1138
00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:19,020
And just hung up the phone.

1139
00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:21,500
I have no idea what you're talking about.

1140
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:22,500
Yes.

1141
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:23,500
Ah.

1142
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:24,820
Ah, I'd be so fucking pissed.

1143
00:46:24,820 --> 00:46:27,020
She would never hear from Ted again after this.

1144
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:30,020
I would shit in a paper bag and light it on fire on his phone.

1145
00:46:30,020 --> 00:46:31,020
Yeah.

1146
00:46:31,020 --> 00:46:32,020
Oh, yeah.

1147
00:46:32,020 --> 00:46:33,300
Well, I'm surprised she didn't try to go to his house.

1148
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:34,300
Yeah.

1149
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:35,820
Like she had stayed with him so many times, you know?

1150
00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:36,820
It's true.

1151
00:46:36,820 --> 00:46:41,140
When questioned years later about this, Ted's response was, quote, I just wanted to prove

1152
00:46:41,140 --> 00:46:43,020
to myself that I could have married her.

1153
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:44,020
Oh my God.

1154
00:46:44,020 --> 00:46:45,020
That's so fucked up.

1155
00:46:45,020 --> 00:46:46,020
It's so manipulative.

1156
00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:47,020
It's so fucked up.

1157
00:46:47,020 --> 00:46:48,020
I hate that.

1158
00:46:48,020 --> 00:46:49,020
I hate that so much.

1159
00:46:49,020 --> 00:46:50,020
Oh my God.

1160
00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:58,020
My whole body is like, it's so tense right now.

1161
00:46:58,020 --> 00:46:59,780
That's disgusting, right?

1162
00:46:59,780 --> 00:47:01,020
Just to prove that I could.

1163
00:47:01,020 --> 00:47:02,020
Fuck.

1164
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:03,300
Just to see if I could.

1165
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:07,220
Stephanie would disagree, stating that she believed that Ted had deliberately planned

1166
00:47:07,220 --> 00:47:12,100
the entirety of rekindling, the relationship, and breaking up with her in order to get back

1167
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:13,860
at her for leaving him years prior.

1168
00:47:13,860 --> 00:47:14,860
I don't doubt it.

1169
00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:15,860
I don't doubt it at all.

1170
00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:17,580
I don't either.

1171
00:47:17,580 --> 00:47:21,820
Around this same time, Ted had begun skipping classes at law school, and by April, he had

1172
00:47:21,820 --> 00:47:24,060
stopped attending entirely.

1173
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:27,500
This is so strange to me because it's like he was doing so well with the politics and

1174
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:30,180
then all, it's like a fucking switch flipped.

1175
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:34,780
And all of a sudden he's like trying to get back at his girlfriend or whatever and then

1176
00:47:34,780 --> 00:47:36,220
dropping out of school again.

1177
00:47:36,220 --> 00:47:39,900
It's very interesting that you say that because even when he went into school, it was very

1178
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:41,220
like, I'm going to be a politician.

1179
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:42,220
I'm going to be a lawyer.

1180
00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:44,260
And it's just, it's interesting.

1181
00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:48,980
And it's kind of happened before where we've seen this where as soon as someone moves,

1182
00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:51,380
they start a brand new life, new career, everything.

1183
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:53,220
And he's done it at least twice now.

1184
00:47:53,220 --> 00:47:54,220
Yes.

1185
00:47:54,220 --> 00:47:55,220
But he hasn't moved this time.

1186
00:47:55,220 --> 00:47:57,220
He hasn't moved, but he's moved like relationships.

1187
00:47:57,220 --> 00:47:58,220
That's true.

1188
00:47:58,220 --> 00:47:59,220
And he's moved colleges.

1189
00:47:59,220 --> 00:48:00,220
You know what I mean?

1190
00:48:00,220 --> 00:48:01,220
That's true.

1191
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:02,220
Yeah.

1192
00:48:02,220 --> 00:48:08,260
Around this time as well, young women began to disappear all along the Pacific Northwest.

1193
00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:10,500
So we're going to talk about Ted's victims.

1194
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:15,300
There is a lot that goes into his life at the time.

1195
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:18,740
If it's anything like for the sake of brevity, I'm not going to put every single fucking

1196
00:48:18,740 --> 00:48:20,580
detail because this is a long case.

1197
00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:23,860
But if there's anything that we need to know, it'll probably be in part two because right

1198
00:48:23,860 --> 00:48:27,340
now like for the end of this episode, we're just going to talk about victims.

1199
00:48:27,340 --> 00:48:31,060
So just get ready to buckle in.

1200
00:48:31,060 --> 00:48:36,460
Ted Bundy's first known and confirmed victim was killed in 1974, but he was actually suspected

1201
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:39,080
of earlier killings.

1202
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,420
In the middle of the night on August 31st, 1961, eight year old Ann Marie Burr disappeared

1203
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:46,300
from her Tacoma home.

1204
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:47,700
1961.

1205
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:51,700
At the time, a 14 year old Ted Bundy lived a few miles away.

1206
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:56,300
It is suspected that he had been spying on people's homes that night and saw an opportunity

1207
00:48:56,300 --> 00:49:02,340
in the form of this girl that he could not resist due to his violent tendencies escalating.

1208
00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:06,620
At the Burr home, an unlocked front door, an open window, and a footprint were among

1209
00:49:06,620 --> 00:49:13,140
the few clues left, and Ann's parents and sister were also in the home when she vanished.

1210
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:15,980
Ann's mother would comment that she felt like it was very likely that her daughter

1211
00:49:15,980 --> 00:49:20,260
had known her abductor and it is thought that Ted may have met Ann while on his newspaper

1212
00:49:20,260 --> 00:49:24,100
route or even visiting an uncle who lived in her neighborhood.

1213
00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:26,180
So I mean, it had a shoe print.

1214
00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:27,180
How big was this shoe?

1215
00:49:27,180 --> 00:49:29,900
Well, yeah, it was a 14, 14 year old size shoe.

1216
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:32,300
Yeah, I don't know what 14 year olds wear, my bad.

1217
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:36,140
The fact that there were other people in the home correlates to some of Ted's later victims,

1218
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:39,020
crime scenes, but this is, again, circumstantial.

1219
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:41,780
I didn't say it earlier, but it's circumstantial.

1220
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:44,820
I think I had a size 9 or 10 when I was 14.

1221
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:45,820
I take back what I said.

1222
00:49:45,820 --> 00:49:48,740
The same shoe size that I have now.

1223
00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:53,020
Ted would ultimately deny responsibility for Ann's disappearance while taking accountability

1224
00:49:53,020 --> 00:49:57,660
for others, even when Ann's mother wrote him a letter asking for closure before his

1225
00:49:57,660 --> 00:49:58,660
execution.

1226
00:49:58,660 --> 00:50:03,380
So it is unclear if he really didn't have anything to do with it or if he was lying.

1227
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:06,940
So experts think that if he was responsible for this crime, he may not have been willing

1228
00:50:06,940 --> 00:50:12,300
to admit that he was because the crime took place while he was still living at home.

1229
00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:16,380
So there's one thing they're like, because we know he has a weird respect for his grandparents,

1230
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:17,860
regardless of what they put him through.

1231
00:50:17,860 --> 00:50:21,060
Well, and he's already like, well, I would never hide in that bush, but maybe it wasn't

1232
00:50:21,060 --> 00:50:24,380
his best job, quote unquote.

1233
00:50:24,380 --> 00:50:27,540
So he was like, oh, I'm not even going to take credit for that because it's sloppy or

1234
00:50:27,540 --> 00:50:28,540
something.

1235
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:31,020
Yeah, but it's just very interesting to me because he was all about taking credit for

1236
00:50:31,020 --> 00:50:32,180
a lot of other shit.

1237
00:50:32,180 --> 00:50:34,820
Or he keeps that one very personal because it's his first.

1238
00:50:34,820 --> 00:50:35,820
Exactly.

1239
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:41,860
Nonetheless, existing evidence did not contain enough comparable DNA to be a match to Ted.

1240
00:50:41,860 --> 00:50:45,620
It is also noted that he told different stories to each and every person he spoke with about

1241
00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:46,980
his early crimes.

1242
00:50:46,980 --> 00:50:50,980
So unfortunately, there's really no way to know what's true and what's false.

1243
00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:56,020
He told attorney and author Paulie Nelson that he attempted his first kidnapping in 1969

1244
00:50:56,020 --> 00:51:02,140
in Ocean City, New Jersey, but did not kill anyone until sometime in 1971 in Seattle.

1245
00:51:02,140 --> 00:51:05,900
He told psychologist Art Norman that he killed two women in Atlantic City while visiting

1246
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:09,020
family in Philly in 1969.

1247
00:51:09,020 --> 00:51:13,700
He hinted to homicide detective Robert Keppel that he committed a murder in Seattle in 1972

1248
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:18,820
and another murder in 1973 that involved a hitchhiker near Tombwater, but he refused

1249
00:51:18,820 --> 00:51:20,740
to elaborate.

1250
00:51:20,740 --> 00:51:24,340
What we know for sure is that Ted Bundy's earliest documented homicides were committed

1251
00:51:24,340 --> 00:51:28,060
in 1974 when he was just 27 years old.

1252
00:51:28,060 --> 00:51:31,820
And by his own admission, he had mastered the necessary skills to leave minimal and

1253
00:51:31,820 --> 00:51:35,540
incriminating evidence even before DNA profiling.

1254
00:51:35,540 --> 00:51:36,540
What's the point of...

1255
00:51:36,540 --> 00:51:39,500
Okay, so he's not going to admit to killing the little girl, right?

1256
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:40,500
The six-year-old.

1257
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:41,500
Eight.

1258
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:42,500
Eight-year-old.

1259
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,500
I thought he said she was six.

1260
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:46,500
Eight.

1261
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:49,500
She scrolled up like slightly silently.

1262
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:55,500
Okay, so the eight-year-old, right?

1263
00:51:55,500 --> 00:52:00,140
He didn't admit to that, but why would he hint that he committed all these other crimes?

1264
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:01,980
Like, it's just so...

1265
00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:02,980
He's just a fucker.

1266
00:52:02,980 --> 00:52:08,260
Yeah, and I keep asking questions like we know the answers, but only he does.

1267
00:52:08,260 --> 00:52:13,420
Well, and that's the thing, like, he was in custody for a while before he got executed,

1268
00:52:13,420 --> 00:52:16,500
so he had all this time to just fucking make shit up, you know what I mean?

1269
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:17,780
Like, he just likes to fuck with people.

1270
00:52:17,780 --> 00:52:21,340
Like, he likes to toy people's minds.

1271
00:52:21,340 --> 00:52:25,900
Only after midnight on January 4th, 1974, around the time that Ted had broken up with

1272
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:31,060
Stephanie, he would enter the basement apartment of 18-year-old Karen Sparks, a dancer and

1273
00:52:31,060 --> 00:52:34,180
student at the University of Washington.

1274
00:52:34,180 --> 00:52:38,620
In the documentaries, this woman is often referred to as Joni Lenz, Mary Adams, and

1275
00:52:38,620 --> 00:52:40,940
Terry Caldwell.

1276
00:52:40,940 --> 00:52:45,220
Ted would begin his assault on Karen by bludgeoning her with a metal rod from her bed frame before

1277
00:52:45,220 --> 00:52:49,500
sexually assaulting her with what experts believe to have either been the same rod or

1278
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:52,260
a metal speculum.

1279
00:52:52,260 --> 00:52:54,940
This would cause extensive internal damage.

1280
00:52:54,940 --> 00:52:55,940
Obviously.

1281
00:52:55,940 --> 00:53:00,820
Ted would leave the home shortly after this, resulting in Karen being badly injured but

1282
00:53:00,820 --> 00:53:01,820
alive.

1283
00:53:01,820 --> 00:53:02,820
Oh my god.

1284
00:53:02,820 --> 00:53:06,460
She would be rushed to the hospital where she would spend 10 days unconscious, and although

1285
00:53:06,460 --> 00:53:10,580
she would survive her attack, it would leave her with severe physical disabilities.

1286
00:53:10,580 --> 00:53:14,220
Oh my god, that's awful.

1287
00:53:14,220 --> 00:53:18,780
46 years later, I just got full body heaps.

1288
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:23,940
In January of 2020, Karen Sparks spoke out about her attack.

1289
00:53:23,940 --> 00:53:29,420
She recalled that night, quote, he came into my home, took a frame off of my bed and smashed

1290
00:53:29,420 --> 00:53:33,980
my skull, and he probably used the same bed frame and smashed it into my vagina and into

1291
00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:35,100
my bladder.

1292
00:53:35,100 --> 00:53:39,180
My bladder was totally split, end quote.

1293
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:47,820
Like being able to say that in an interview 46 years later, so powerful.

1294
00:53:47,820 --> 00:53:54,020
She then stated that it took nearly 20 hours before her roommate discovered her, stating,

1295
00:53:54,020 --> 00:53:56,620
quote, Bob thought I was still sleeping.

1296
00:53:56,620 --> 00:53:58,620
It was horrible for him to find me that way.

1297
00:53:58,620 --> 00:53:59,620
Could you imagine that?

1298
00:53:59,620 --> 00:54:00,620
I can't even imagine that.

1299
00:54:00,620 --> 00:54:02,300
I cannot even imagine that.

1300
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:04,500
And especially if you just thought your roommate was sleeping.

1301
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,500
Yes.

1302
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:08,620
You know, and just, I don't know, just having that gut instinct like something was wrong

1303
00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:11,100
or something, and then checking on that person.

1304
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:16,620
Well, imagine, thankfully, obviously she's alive, but imagine if she was passed on and

1305
00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:20,900
then that guilt that he would have felt if he had known she was there for 20 hours before

1306
00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:21,900
he, yeah, awful.

1307
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:25,900
Well, I mean, just even then it's kind of just interesting that she would even have

1308
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:27,180
a roommate, you know, or something.

1309
00:54:27,180 --> 00:54:29,300
I mean, just that's just, yeah.

1310
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:33,300
The extent of her injuries resulted in permanent brain damage with significant loss to her

1311
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:35,220
vision and hearing.

1312
00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:40,180
She stated, quote, I have a horrible ringing and roaring in my ears, just constant, end

1313
00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:41,180
quote.

1314
00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:42,380
Oh, I know.

1315
00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:44,420
I have that image of him yelling.

1316
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:45,420
I know.

1317
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:49,020
I've never heard like that rage that she must have seen on his face.

1318
00:54:49,020 --> 00:54:50,020
Seriously.

1319
00:54:50,020 --> 00:54:51,540
It's, oh, it's haunting.

1320
00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:57,060
She also stated that she frequently has epileptic fits following her attack, but she was able

1321
00:54:57,060 --> 00:54:59,380
to overcome them.

1322
00:54:59,380 --> 00:55:03,540
Following her attack, Karen stated that she, quote, wanted to keep quiet.

1323
00:55:03,540 --> 00:55:06,460
I wanted to have my own life in privacy.

1324
00:55:06,460 --> 00:55:10,740
Women like us, women that have been attacked, women that have been raped, when they are

1325
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:13,020
survivors, they keep their secrets to themselves.

1326
00:55:13,020 --> 00:55:16,140
I don't know why we're taught to get on with it.

1327
00:55:16,140 --> 00:55:17,140
End quote.

1328
00:55:17,140 --> 00:55:18,140
I know.

1329
00:55:18,140 --> 00:55:20,140
I almost heard her crying.

1330
00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:21,140
I know.

1331
00:55:21,140 --> 00:55:24,740
I literally have to hold my breath.

1332
00:55:24,740 --> 00:55:29,500
Karen waited nearly 50 years to tell her story, a story that her own immediate family

1333
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:31,300
did not know until she spoke out.

1334
00:55:31,300 --> 00:55:34,620
They didn't even know that she had been attacked by Ted Bundy.

1335
00:55:34,620 --> 00:55:39,780
I think that her like, maybe her parents and stuff, but her, she has children and her children

1336
00:55:39,780 --> 00:55:42,940
did not know anything about this until 2020.

1337
00:55:42,940 --> 00:55:46,980
It makes sense as to why there was other aliases besides just ones that he would use.

1338
00:55:46,980 --> 00:55:48,820
But she testified against him in court?

1339
00:55:48,820 --> 00:55:49,820
No.

1340
00:55:49,820 --> 00:55:52,820
She didn't speak out about it until 2020.

1341
00:55:52,820 --> 00:55:53,820
I didn't realize the truth.

1342
00:55:53,820 --> 00:55:56,900
I thought you said like, she went through the court proceedings, but she had never spoke

1343
00:55:56,900 --> 00:55:58,180
out about it.

1344
00:55:58,180 --> 00:55:59,580
I might be mistaken.

1345
00:55:59,580 --> 00:56:01,740
I haven't gotten into the research.

1346
00:56:01,740 --> 00:56:02,740
Oh, I see.

1347
00:56:02,740 --> 00:56:03,740
Honestly, I'd be mistaken.

1348
00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:08,420
Don't quote me on that, but I will make sure to clarify in part two.

1349
00:56:08,420 --> 00:56:14,060
Just then a month later, in the early morning hours of February 1st, 1974, Ted broke into

1350
00:56:14,060 --> 00:56:19,700
the basement room of Linda Ann Healy, a senior at the University of Washington.

1351
00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:23,460
Linda spent her extracurricular activities broadcasting the morning radio, Weather Sports

1352
00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:25,220
for Skiers.

1353
00:56:25,220 --> 00:56:30,020
It's widely believed that Ted first spotted Linda and some friends at a nearby bar named

1354
00:56:30,020 --> 00:56:33,920
Dante's Tavern and likely followed them back to their home.

1355
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,140
He would then wait until all of the women were asleep and would break into the home.

1356
00:56:38,140 --> 00:56:42,180
Linda was hit over the head in order to subdue her, and Ted carried her unconscious body

1357
00:56:42,180 --> 00:56:45,260
to his vehicle shortly after.

1358
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:49,020
Around 5am the next morning, one of Linda's roommates woke up to the sound of Linda's

1359
00:56:49,020 --> 00:56:50,780
alarm clock going off.

1360
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:55,460
This was not unusual as Linda was commonly getting up very early to get to her job.

1361
00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:59,820
The roommate noticed that this was particularly unusual, however, as Linda never slept through

1362
00:56:59,820 --> 00:57:01,460
her alarm.

1363
00:57:01,460 --> 00:57:04,900
The roommate checked Linda's room, but she was nowhere to be found.

1364
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:08,900
She was concerned, however, she just brushed it off, thinking that maybe somehow Linda

1365
00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:11,300
just forgot to turn the alarm off.

1366
00:57:11,300 --> 00:57:16,420
As the day went on, Linda's roommates and now family members were growing in their concerns.

1367
00:57:16,420 --> 00:57:20,500
The roommates had since investigated the home and noticed that the back door was unlocked

1368
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:23,180
and that there was blood on Linda's bed.

1369
00:57:23,180 --> 00:57:27,420
They would phone police in the evening on February 1st, but unfortunately it would not be of

1370
00:57:27,420 --> 00:57:28,980
any help.

1371
00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:33,700
The details of what happened after Ted abducted Linda are not known, however, what we do know

1372
00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:38,060
is that Linda was beaten so badly that it caused her death.

1373
00:57:38,060 --> 00:57:42,620
Ted would then dress the woman's body in blue jeans, a white blouse, and boots, and

1374
00:57:42,620 --> 00:57:45,140
leave her remains on Taylor Mountain.

1375
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:46,460
He dressed her.

1376
00:57:46,460 --> 00:57:48,420
He changed her clothes.

1377
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:52,380
This would become one of many areas that Ted Bundy would leave his victims' bodies on

1378
00:57:52,380 --> 00:57:54,620
Taylor Mountain.

1379
00:57:54,620 --> 00:57:59,540
During the first six months of 1974, female college students were disappearing at a rate

1380
00:57:59,540 --> 00:58:01,660
of about one per month.

1381
00:58:01,660 --> 00:58:05,380
Could you imagine living in that fucking time?

1382
00:58:05,380 --> 00:58:07,820
I know I've said that a billion times in this episode.

1383
00:58:07,820 --> 00:58:08,820
Could you imagine?

1384
00:58:08,820 --> 00:58:14,380
But I mean, it's just, I can't even begin to comprehend what that must feel like, having

1385
00:58:14,380 --> 00:58:17,380
that anxiety on a daily basis.

1386
00:58:17,380 --> 00:58:23,180
On March 12th, 1974, this is all going to be 1974, 19-year-old Evergreen State College

1387
00:58:23,180 --> 00:58:26,420
student Donna Gale Manson vanished.

1388
00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:31,100
She was last seen leaving her dorm at the college in Olympia, 60 miles southwest of

1389
00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:36,900
Seattle, heading to attend a jazz concert on campus, but she would never arrive.

1390
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:43,660
So this is 60 miles southeast, or southwest, excuse me, of Seattle, like he traveled.

1391
00:58:43,660 --> 00:58:47,780
Before she left for the night, her roommates noticed that Donna seemed very focused on

1392
00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:52,340
her appearance, even going as far as to change outfits several times.

1393
00:58:52,340 --> 00:58:55,700
This led the roommates to think that perhaps she was meeting a guy while she was out, but

1394
00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:58,060
this was not confirmed by Donna.

1395
00:58:58,060 --> 00:59:03,420
Unfortunately, this gave way for her disappearance to go unnoticed for a short period of time,

1396
00:59:03,420 --> 00:59:07,140
because they thought she might have spent the night at this man's house or something.

1397
00:59:07,140 --> 00:59:10,980
It seems as though Donna was abducted by Ted while on the way to campus to attend this

1398
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:15,380
event, and it is believed that he was somehow able to coax her into his vehicle, something

1399
00:59:15,380 --> 00:59:19,020
that would also become a frequent part of his MO.

1400
00:59:19,020 --> 00:59:23,380
Donna's route from her dorm to the campus has since been mapped out, and it suggests

1401
00:59:23,380 --> 00:59:27,460
that she took a route, I said route and then route, route that would have taken no longer

1402
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:29,300
than two minutes to walk.

1403
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:30,300
What?

1404
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:35,340
So between her dorm and campus, two minutes she was abducted.

1405
00:59:35,340 --> 00:59:36,640
Wow.

1406
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,420
This led investigators to believe that Ted absolutely knew that he wanted to abduct

1407
00:59:40,420 --> 00:59:42,860
her and knew her schedule.

1408
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:47,300
Or because she was getting dressed up or whatever, like I'm going to pick you up for a date.

1409
00:59:47,300 --> 00:59:48,540
Let me pick you up for a date.

1410
00:59:48,540 --> 00:59:50,700
Meet me right here.

1411
00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:55,260
Ted would frequently park his yellow Volkswagen Beetle in quiet areas away from any potential

1412
00:59:55,260 --> 00:59:56,260
witnesses.

1413
00:59:56,260 --> 01:00:00,740
And since Donna's walk was through kind of like a wooded or like kind of vegetated area,

1414
01:00:00,740 --> 01:00:01,740
this was his plan.

1415
01:00:01,740 --> 01:00:04,140
Do you think that he went to go like attack her in the woods?

1416
01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:05,140
Sorry, I keep interrupting.

1417
01:00:05,140 --> 01:00:06,140
No, I don't actually know.

1418
01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:10,540
Not in the woods, kind of a wooded area, but like he parked away and then knew she was

1419
01:00:10,540 --> 01:00:12,420
going to be trying to meet him or find him.

1420
01:00:12,420 --> 01:00:16,020
I don't think she knew him or maybe, you know, I don't know because he had so many different

1421
01:00:16,020 --> 01:00:20,660
MO's like he would pretend like he was injured and he needed help or he would befriend someone

1422
01:00:20,660 --> 01:00:24,540
and ask them on a date or he would just abduct someone that he knew her routine because he

1423
01:00:24,540 --> 01:00:26,060
had been stalking her.

1424
01:00:26,060 --> 01:00:28,620
It's just there's so many different options that it could have been.

1425
01:00:28,620 --> 01:00:34,100
And let's be honest, like it's the 70s, people are not very afraid of hitchhiking or getting

1426
01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:35,100
cars with strangers.

1427
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:36,900
That's not really a concern at this point.

1428
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:38,980
Especially in, well, this is Seattle area.

1429
01:00:38,980 --> 01:00:39,980
Yeah, but yeah.

1430
01:00:39,980 --> 01:00:42,540
Yeah, I mean, California was the thing about that.

1431
01:00:42,540 --> 01:00:43,700
California, especially, yeah.

1432
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:47,380
When Donna failed to return to her dorm that night, her roommates did not believe anything

1433
01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:48,380
was amiss.

1434
01:00:48,380 --> 01:00:52,620
Donna was a free spirit who would often hitchhike and was very independent, so it did not strike

1435
01:00:52,620 --> 01:00:55,580
her roommates as odd when she didn't immediately return.

1436
01:00:55,580 --> 01:01:00,700
However, six days later, they figured that she should have been home at some point and

1437
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:02,780
they began to worry.

1438
01:01:02,780 --> 01:01:06,860
The roommates would report her missing on March 18th, but news of her disappearance did

1439
01:01:06,860 --> 01:01:09,100
not hit the media until March 22nd.

1440
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:11,180
Okay, four days later.

1441
01:01:11,180 --> 01:01:16,260
The newspaper article reads, quote, Olympia, foul play is suspected of the disappearance

1442
01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:20,180
of a co-ed from the Evergreen State College, according to the Thurston County Sheriff's

1443
01:01:20,180 --> 01:01:21,180
Department.

1444
01:01:21,180 --> 01:01:25,980
Inspector Charles Grafe said Friday that Donna G. Manson, 19 of Auburn, has been missing

1445
01:01:25,980 --> 01:01:28,660
from a dorm at the college for 10 days.

1446
01:01:28,660 --> 01:01:32,660
Miss Manson told roommates that she was going to attend a jazz concert March 12th at the

1447
01:01:32,660 --> 01:01:33,660
college.

1448
01:01:33,660 --> 01:01:37,020
She failed to appear at the concert and has not been heard from since.

1449
01:01:37,020 --> 01:01:41,660
The missing girl is the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Lyle E. Manson of Auburn.

1450
01:01:41,660 --> 01:01:42,660
End of quote.

1451
01:01:42,660 --> 01:01:47,340
I just think it's interesting to have like the news article lined out.

1452
01:01:47,340 --> 01:01:52,660
Following Donna's disappearance, search teams combed the 990-acre campus on four separate

1453
01:01:52,660 --> 01:01:56,620
occasions each time with up to 200 people assisting.

1454
01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:59,980
Unfortunately, no remains or evidence were ever located.

1455
01:01:59,980 --> 01:02:00,980
No evidence either.

1456
01:02:00,980 --> 01:02:05,180
I was expecting at least like a shoe or a bracelet or something.

1457
01:02:05,180 --> 01:02:06,180
Nothing.

1458
01:02:06,180 --> 01:02:07,180
He's wicked smart.

1459
01:02:07,180 --> 01:02:08,180
Wicked smart.

1460
01:02:08,180 --> 01:02:09,860
Like he really is.

1461
01:02:09,860 --> 01:02:14,940
Because Donna had an interest in, quote, unusual subjects such as alchemy and death, police

1462
01:02:14,940 --> 01:02:18,700
actually initially believed that her disappearance was really a suicide.

1463
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:19,700
What?

1464
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:20,700
Yeah.

1465
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:22,700
But they didn't have any reference point.

1466
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:24,580
They were like, well, she was into like really weird stuff.

1467
01:02:24,580 --> 01:02:25,940
So like she probably committed suicide.

1468
01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:26,940
I'm serious.

1469
01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:27,940
That's also very classic 70s.

1470
01:02:27,940 --> 01:02:28,940
Oh yeah.

1471
01:02:28,940 --> 01:02:30,340
Like everything's Satanism.

1472
01:02:30,340 --> 01:02:31,340
Yeah.

1473
01:02:31,340 --> 01:02:35,420
However, this was quickly ruled out and she would later be confirmed as the third victim

1474
01:02:35,420 --> 01:02:37,860
of Ted Bundy.

1475
01:02:37,860 --> 01:02:42,540
On April 17th, Suzanne Elaine Rancourt was on her way to her dorm after an evening advisors

1476
01:02:42,540 --> 01:02:48,660
meeting at Central Washington State College in Ellensburg, 100 miles southeast of Seattle.

1477
01:02:48,660 --> 01:02:50,580
So farther.

1478
01:02:50,580 --> 01:02:53,580
Susan had put in a load of laundry before leaving for the meeting and when she did not

1479
01:02:53,580 --> 01:02:58,260
return to retrieve her items, it became clear that something was amiss.

1480
01:02:58,260 --> 01:03:02,180
According to investigators, the most possible scenario is that Ted spotted Susan while she

1481
01:03:02,180 --> 01:03:05,540
was leaving the meeting at around 10 PM.

1482
01:03:05,540 --> 01:03:09,380
Two female students would later come forward and report encounters having to do with the

1483
01:03:09,380 --> 01:03:15,180
case, one on the night of Susan's disappearance and another from three nights prior.

1484
01:03:15,180 --> 01:03:19,180
They both stated that a man wearing a sling was walking around and asked them for help

1485
01:03:19,180 --> 01:03:25,020
carrying a load of books to his brown or tan Volkswagen Beetle.

1486
01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:27,100
A sling like his arm was like an a sling.

1487
01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:28,260
Yeah, like his elbow was broken or something.

1488
01:03:28,260 --> 01:03:29,260
But he, that yeah.

1489
01:03:29,260 --> 01:03:30,260
Okay.

1490
01:03:30,260 --> 01:03:34,820
A man in a sling decided to go ahead and just carry some bulky ass items.

1491
01:03:34,820 --> 01:03:35,820
Yes.

1492
01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:36,820
It's just funny.

1493
01:03:36,820 --> 01:03:41,980
They thought that he was attempting to abduct one or both of those girls and they declined

1494
01:03:41,980 --> 01:03:42,980
his advance.

1495
01:03:42,980 --> 01:03:44,980
They were like, oh no, sorry, whatever.

1496
01:03:44,980 --> 01:03:47,220
And they kind of got away.

1497
01:03:47,220 --> 01:03:50,700
Investigators believe that he did the same act with Susan, whom he dropped his books

1498
01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:51,700
in front of.

1499
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:54,180
And when this happened, Susan offered to assist him.

1500
01:03:54,180 --> 01:03:55,620
She was a nice girl.

1501
01:03:55,620 --> 01:03:56,620
Jesus.

1502
01:03:56,620 --> 01:03:57,620
This guy.

1503
01:03:57,620 --> 01:03:58,620
I know.

1504
01:03:58,620 --> 01:04:02,740
As Susan was leaning into the car trying to put the books in for him, Ted hit her over

1505
01:04:02,740 --> 01:04:05,940
the head with a crowbar, knocking her unconscious.

1506
01:04:05,940 --> 01:04:09,460
He then placed her body in the car and drove away.

1507
01:04:09,460 --> 01:04:14,340
Shortly after she was reported missing, an ad for any information on Susan hit the paper.

1508
01:04:14,340 --> 01:04:21,460
Quote, 18 years old, white, female, American, height, five feet, two inches, weight, 118

1509
01:04:21,460 --> 01:04:25,420
pounds, blue eyes, blonde shoulder length hair.

1510
01:04:25,420 --> 01:04:29,620
Susan was last seen in Ellensburg Wednesday, April 17th at 10 p.m.

1511
01:04:29,620 --> 01:04:33,860
She has not called home, her residence hall at Central Washington State College, any of

1512
01:04:33,860 --> 01:04:37,700
her known friends, or has been seen with anyone since Wednesday.

1513
01:04:37,700 --> 01:04:42,500
She was last seen wearing a bright yellow fingertip length ski jacket, no hood, yellow

1514
01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:47,380
short sleeve sweater, gray corduroy pants, brown hush puppy type shoes.

1515
01:04:47,380 --> 01:04:51,180
If you have last seen Susan or anyone resembling her, please call.

1516
01:04:51,180 --> 01:04:52,820
End quote.

1517
01:04:52,820 --> 01:04:54,780
Which like, that sounds like a dope ass outfit, honestly.

1518
01:04:54,780 --> 01:04:56,140
Yeah, it's not really cute.

1519
01:04:56,140 --> 01:05:00,900
But she's blonde and she has blue eyes, which is very different than his typical vehicle.

1520
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:02,540
Yeah, has been different so far.

1521
01:05:02,540 --> 01:05:04,820
So no wonder like his MO is like all over the radar.

1522
01:05:04,820 --> 01:05:07,020
Yes, exactly.

1523
01:05:07,020 --> 01:05:10,260
They would also offer a $1,000 reward for any information.

1524
01:05:10,260 --> 01:05:14,060
Unfortunately, this information would not come for many years later in the form of a

1525
01:05:14,060 --> 01:05:15,860
contestion from one Ted Bundy.

1526
01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:18,340
Oh, so they never even found her?

1527
01:05:18,340 --> 01:05:20,980
They did, but they found her remains.

1528
01:05:20,980 --> 01:05:23,420
But it was only because he had said?

1529
01:05:23,420 --> 01:05:25,420
I don't know.

1530
01:05:25,420 --> 01:05:27,620
A lot of his victims kind of were found together.

1531
01:05:27,620 --> 01:05:29,540
Some of them he confessed.

1532
01:05:29,540 --> 01:05:31,820
I think it was after maybe remains were found he confessed.

1533
01:05:31,820 --> 01:05:32,820
Again, part two.

1534
01:05:32,820 --> 01:05:33,820
Okay, sorry.

1535
01:05:33,820 --> 01:05:34,820
Sorry.

1536
01:05:34,820 --> 01:05:35,820
It's okay.

1537
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:36,820
I'm getting ahead.

1538
01:05:36,820 --> 01:05:39,060
Although the police were quick to retrace Susan's steps, interview people and contact

1539
01:05:39,060 --> 01:05:41,780
witnesses, there was no trace of the girl.

1540
01:05:41,780 --> 01:05:46,180
The same week she went missing, Susan's parents, Dale and Vivian Rancourt flew in from Anchorage

1541
01:05:46,180 --> 01:05:48,020
to assist in the search.

1542
01:05:48,020 --> 01:05:49,620
They made a public statement.

1543
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:50,620
Quote.

1544
01:05:50,620 --> 01:05:54,260
We believe Susan was abducted because she was always a very logical and predictable

1545
01:05:54,260 --> 01:05:55,260
person.

1546
01:05:55,260 --> 01:05:56,260
Very predictable.

1547
01:05:56,260 --> 01:06:00,140
If it was one of my other children, I'd just say, I'd say just stand by.

1548
01:06:00,140 --> 01:06:02,540
They'll be back in two or three days, but not Susan.

1549
01:06:02,540 --> 01:06:03,860
She was always very careful.

1550
01:06:03,860 --> 01:06:05,140
And quote.

1551
01:06:05,140 --> 01:06:07,780
That's so sad.

1552
01:06:07,780 --> 01:06:11,980
On May 3rd, police had exhausted all efforts to locate Susan, and they were noticing an

1553
01:06:11,980 --> 01:06:13,620
eerie trend.

1554
01:06:13,620 --> 01:06:17,100
In the span of three months, three women had gone missing.

1555
01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:21,620
All in the Pacific Northwest area, all in their late teens to early 20s, and all from

1556
01:06:21,620 --> 01:06:26,700
college campuses.

1557
01:06:26,700 --> 01:06:31,580
On May 6th, 20-year-old Roberta Kathleen Parks left her dorm at Oregon State University in

1558
01:06:31,580 --> 01:06:35,340
Corvallis, 260 miles south of Seattle.

1559
01:06:35,340 --> 01:06:36,660
So he's like all over the place.

1560
01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:38,060
He's traveling.

1561
01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:41,420
She was leaving to have coffee with friends at the Memorial Union, but she would never

1562
01:06:41,420 --> 01:06:43,100
arrive.

1563
01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:47,140
According to friends and family, Roberta was notably unhappy at the time of her disappearance,

1564
01:06:47,140 --> 01:06:50,900
as she had been openly fighting with her parents and her boyfriend and was worrying about her

1565
01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:51,900
future career.

1566
01:06:51,900 --> 01:06:52,900
That's sad.

1567
01:06:52,900 --> 01:06:53,900
I know.

1568
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:57,180
According to her friends, Roberta's boyfriend, Christie, was pushing for marriage, and she

1569
01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:59,620
was not nearly as ready as he was.

1570
01:06:59,620 --> 01:07:02,700
She had even expressed breaking up with him due to the fact that the two wanted different

1571
01:07:02,700 --> 01:07:04,340
things.

1572
01:07:04,340 --> 01:07:07,940
The day of her attack, Roberta had received news from her sister that her father had

1573
01:07:07,940 --> 01:07:12,140
had a heart attack, leaving her with an immense feeling of guilt when she remembered that

1574
01:07:12,140 --> 01:07:16,020
her and her father had had a big argument two days prior.

1575
01:07:16,020 --> 01:07:19,180
Later that day, she would receive a second phone call from her sister, this time with

1576
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:20,180
good news.

1577
01:07:20,180 --> 01:07:22,460
Her father was likely to survive.

1578
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:25,900
It is thought that due to the emotional distress Roberta was experiencing at the time of her

1579
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:29,780
abduction, she may have been distracted or off kilter.

1580
01:07:29,780 --> 01:07:34,780
She probably just fucking makes her brain foggy.

1581
01:07:34,780 --> 01:07:36,980
There's a lot going on in her life.

1582
01:07:36,980 --> 01:07:40,460
While Roberta was on her way to the Memorial Union building, she ran into a friend of hers

1583
01:07:40,460 --> 01:07:42,460
by the name of Lorraine.

1584
01:07:42,460 --> 01:07:46,460
Lorraine shared with Roberta that she was on her way to get a hot fudge sundae, and this

1585
01:07:46,460 --> 01:07:50,260
would be the last time that Roberta was seen alive.

1586
01:07:50,260 --> 01:07:53,860
Later that night, Lorraine noticed that Roberta had not yet returned to her dorm, and she

1587
01:07:53,860 --> 01:07:57,220
thought this was odd due to Roberta's punctual nature.

1588
01:07:57,220 --> 01:08:02,060
On top of this, their dorm had a 2am curfew, and this was well past the time.

1589
01:08:02,060 --> 01:08:06,460
The following morning, her roommates began to worry when Roberta was still not back.

1590
01:08:06,460 --> 01:08:10,020
They were hesitant to report her absence to the faculty, however, as they thought she

1591
01:08:10,020 --> 01:08:15,300
may have just went to blow off some steam, and they didn't want to get her in trouble.

1592
01:08:15,300 --> 01:08:18,460
Their roommates would ultimately decide to report Roberta's absence to the resident

1593
01:08:18,460 --> 01:08:23,500
advisor when they recalled that, even though they were 250 miles away, young women had

1594
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:25,900
been going missing from college campuses.

1595
01:08:25,900 --> 01:08:30,660
There's differing stories about what happened when Ted met Roberta, but as we know, she

1596
01:08:30,660 --> 01:08:33,420
would unfortunately not survive this attack.

1597
01:08:33,420 --> 01:08:37,580
Unfortunately, due to Roberta being abducted so far away from the other women, she would

1598
01:08:37,580 --> 01:08:42,780
frequently be left out of news outlets when the media would discuss the string of disappearances,

1599
01:08:42,780 --> 01:08:47,620
and they would not connect her to these crimes for a while.

1600
01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:52,380
On June 1st, 22-year-old Brenda Carol Ball was leaving the flame tavern in Breorin near

1601
01:08:52,380 --> 01:08:56,900
the SeaTac Airport when she was last seen talking to a brown-haired man in the parking

1602
01:08:56,900 --> 01:09:00,380
lot with his arm and a sling.

1603
01:09:00,380 --> 01:09:03,740
Brenda was irregular at this bar, giving way for her to know many of the employees and

1604
01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:05,540
patrons.

1605
01:09:05,540 --> 01:09:09,460
According to witnesses, she was there until closing time around 2am, and at that time

1606
01:09:09,460 --> 01:09:13,660
she had asked a band member that she knew if he could give her a ride home.

1607
01:09:13,660 --> 01:09:17,900
He declined due to the fact that he was driving the opposite way to get to his home.

1608
01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:22,260
This gave way for Brenda to either ask someone else for a ride or be offered by someone,

1609
01:09:22,260 --> 01:09:25,820
leaving her unfortunately in the groups of Ted.

1610
01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:29,900
When Brenda failed to return to her apartment, her roommates were not immediately concerned.

1611
01:09:29,900 --> 01:09:33,180
Brenda had been going out more frequently as her classes had just ended, and her roommates

1612
01:09:33,180 --> 01:09:35,420
believed that she was just taking advantage of the summer.

1613
01:09:35,420 --> 01:09:38,860
I feel bad for all these roommates, because they just seem like nice people.

1614
01:09:38,860 --> 01:09:39,860
Seriously?

1615
01:09:39,860 --> 01:09:40,860
Gosh.

1616
01:09:40,860 --> 01:09:42,980
You know, and they're just giving their friend a minute for the doubt or covering for their

1617
01:09:42,980 --> 01:09:48,100
friend or, you know, thinking that somebody's sleeping in late or...

1618
01:09:48,100 --> 01:09:51,740
As the days turned into weeks, her roommates began to worry.

1619
01:09:51,740 --> 01:09:55,180
The reason it took them so long for them to realize something may be up was that Brenda

1620
01:09:55,180 --> 01:09:59,260
was known to go on last minute trips, and it was not unusual for her to be gone for

1621
01:09:59,260 --> 01:10:01,540
multiple days at a time.

1622
01:10:01,540 --> 01:10:06,060
The roommates began to think the worst when they realized that Brenda didn't pack a bag

1623
01:10:06,060 --> 01:10:09,940
or really take anything she would need for a vacation.

1624
01:10:09,940 --> 01:10:13,780
They decided to contact her bank and ask if she had been withdrawing any money, to which

1625
01:10:13,780 --> 01:10:16,780
they were told that she was not.

1626
01:10:16,780 --> 01:10:22,340
On June 17th, Brenda's mom filed a report with the police, a missing persons report.

1627
01:10:22,340 --> 01:10:26,780
Police did not connect Brenda with the other missing women due to her lifestyle and simply

1628
01:10:26,780 --> 01:10:28,620
thought she was just out partying.

1629
01:10:28,620 --> 01:10:29,620
Boo!

1630
01:10:29,620 --> 01:10:30,620
Seriously.

1631
01:10:30,620 --> 01:10:31,620
Oh gosh.

1632
01:10:31,620 --> 01:10:32,620
Or...

1633
01:10:32,620 --> 01:10:36,660
Due to this assumption, her case did not become public until August 7th, when the newspaper

1634
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:38,180
released an ad.

1635
01:10:38,180 --> 01:10:43,140
Quote, King County police have disclosed that a 7th young woman, 22-year-old Brenda

1636
01:10:43,140 --> 01:10:45,460
Carrell Ball, has been reported missing.

1637
01:10:45,460 --> 01:10:49,660
Lieutenant Richard Crace said the Beeren's woman was last seen June 1st.

1638
01:10:49,660 --> 01:10:53,740
Miss Ball's mother, Miss Roseberry Knord of Kent, filed a missing person report June

1639
01:10:53,740 --> 01:10:55,060
17th.

1640
01:10:55,060 --> 01:10:58,660
Crass said that the case had not been made public because Miss Ball, quote, was known

1641
01:10:58,660 --> 01:11:02,860
to be gone from home for a few days at a time, and there seemed to be no link with 6 other

1642
01:11:02,860 --> 01:11:06,780
women who have disappeared in the Northwest since January 31st.

1643
01:11:06,780 --> 01:11:10,820
The only possible connection is that Brenda's physical description was similar to that of

1644
01:11:10,820 --> 01:11:12,740
two women who disappeared.

1645
01:11:12,740 --> 01:11:13,740
End quote.

1646
01:11:13,740 --> 01:11:16,980
There's a lot more, but it pretty much goes on to say like, yeah we didn't connect it

1647
01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:20,900
at first, we're like making a giant excuse for why we're just not telling you about this.

1648
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:22,460
Yeah, yeah, guaranteed.

1649
01:11:22,460 --> 01:11:26,460
Unfortunately, Brenda would become the 6th murder victim of Ted Bundy.

1650
01:11:26,460 --> 01:11:31,100
The ad, I'm sure as you heard, said 7th, but he is, she is his 6th victim.

1651
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:32,100
Okay.

1652
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:34,100
Well, yeah, and said 7th suspected, right?

1653
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:36,980
So there might be one that didn't.

1654
01:11:36,980 --> 01:11:38,980
Yeah, that's true.

1655
01:11:38,980 --> 01:11:43,620
I found it interesting that they were trying to say, oh so and so, Miss Ball is known to

1656
01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:49,420
not to go off for a few days, but this is like the 17th.

1657
01:11:49,420 --> 01:11:50,420
Yeah.

1658
01:11:50,420 --> 01:11:51,420
18th.

1659
01:11:51,420 --> 01:11:52,420
So it's like, what is a few days then?

1660
01:11:52,420 --> 01:11:53,420
Seriously.

1661
01:11:53,420 --> 01:11:54,420
Sir.

1662
01:11:54,420 --> 01:11:55,420
Seriously.

1663
01:11:55,420 --> 01:12:00,700
That's very presumptuous of me, but I'm gonna go ahead and say sir.

1664
01:12:00,700 --> 01:12:06,660
On June 11th, 1974, University of Washington student, Georgianne Hawkins vanished while

1665
01:12:06,660 --> 01:12:10,820
she was walking down a brightly lit alley between her boyfriend's dorm and her sorority

1666
01:12:10,820 --> 01:12:11,820
house.

1667
01:12:11,820 --> 01:12:13,380
Oh my gosh, that has to be so close.

1668
01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:17,060
She had gone to a sorority party on campus the night prior, but did not intend on staying

1669
01:12:17,060 --> 01:12:20,980
long due to her upcoming final she needed to study for.

1670
01:12:20,980 --> 01:12:23,900
Before leaving the party, she had told her friend she was going to stop by her boyfriend's

1671
01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:26,580
dorm and pick up some notes from him.

1672
01:12:26,580 --> 01:12:30,420
Georgianne was noted as being at her boyfriend's dorm for about an hour and taking off around

1673
01:12:30,420 --> 01:12:32,620
1.30 a.m. to head home.

1674
01:12:32,620 --> 01:12:36,100
One of her boyfriend's fraternity brothers heard the back door shut and he reached his

1675
01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:39,020
head out the window, recognizing Georgianne.

1676
01:12:39,020 --> 01:12:42,700
He shouted, quote, hey, George, what's happening?

1677
01:12:42,700 --> 01:12:46,700
The two conversed for about two minutes and then she continued to walk toward her house,

1678
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:50,860
shouting, quote, audios, jokingly.

1679
01:12:50,860 --> 01:12:54,980
Ted would later admit to police that he lured Georgianne to his car and knocked her unconscious

1680
01:12:54,980 --> 01:12:56,780
with a crowbar.

1681
01:12:56,780 --> 01:13:09,780
After handcuffing her, he drove her to Isquatch where he drove her there where he unfortunately

1682
01:13:09,780 --> 01:13:15,660
would strangle her and he spent the entire night with her body, he admitted, which is

1683
01:13:15,660 --> 01:13:16,660
escalation.

1684
01:13:16,660 --> 01:13:19,060
Yeah, because he hasn't done that yet.

1685
01:13:19,060 --> 01:13:24,220
He actually returned to the crime scene the following morning during an active crime

1686
01:13:24,220 --> 01:13:30,500
scene investigation and was able to swipe her earrings and one of her shoes from where

1687
01:13:30,500 --> 01:13:34,220
he abducted her without being seen.

1688
01:13:34,220 --> 01:13:35,220
How?

1689
01:13:35,220 --> 01:13:41,620
Homicide detective Robert Keppel stated about this maneuver, quote, it was a feat so brazen

1690
01:13:41,620 --> 01:13:44,860
that it astonishes police even today.

1691
01:13:44,860 --> 01:13:49,980
He had to have been wearing something similar to like a like a UC outfit, not an undercover,

1692
01:13:49,980 --> 01:13:56,460
but like a detective, you know, like slacks with a polo or something, you know.

1693
01:13:56,460 --> 01:13:58,540
Oh, that's insane.

1694
01:13:58,540 --> 01:13:59,820
That's some dexter shit.

1695
01:13:59,820 --> 01:14:01,420
That's some dexter shit.

1696
01:14:01,420 --> 01:14:02,420
That's, wow.

1697
01:14:02,420 --> 01:14:03,420
That's where we're stopping.

1698
01:14:03,420 --> 01:14:04,420
That's where we're stopping?

1699
01:14:04,420 --> 01:14:05,420
You were like going on and on.

1700
01:14:05,420 --> 01:14:06,420
I was like, oh my goodness.

1701
01:14:06,420 --> 01:14:07,420
Stun to my notes.

1702
01:14:07,420 --> 01:14:08,420
Wow.

1703
01:14:08,420 --> 01:14:09,420
Yeah.

1704
01:14:09,420 --> 01:14:16,820
So, recap, because that was a long episode.

1705
01:14:16,820 --> 01:14:23,260
D has now committed seven murders that we know of and he's going to continue.

1706
01:14:23,260 --> 01:14:24,620
He's going to continue on.

1707
01:14:24,620 --> 01:14:30,220
When we come back for part two, we will finish off explaining his crimes in detail.

1708
01:14:30,220 --> 01:14:34,820
We will talk about, of course, his capture, his trial, his very serious mental health

1709
01:14:34,820 --> 01:14:37,060
issues and ultimately his execution.

1710
01:14:37,060 --> 01:14:38,060
Wow.

1711
01:14:38,060 --> 01:14:39,060
Yeah.

1712
01:14:39,060 --> 01:14:41,740
That's really, really intense.

1713
01:14:41,740 --> 01:14:42,740
I can't even believe that.

1714
01:14:42,740 --> 01:14:44,060
Like I said, that's some fucking dexter shit.

1715
01:14:44,060 --> 01:14:45,060
That's some fucking dexter shit.

1716
01:14:45,060 --> 01:14:49,500
The homicide detective was like, I have no fucking clue how he did that.

1717
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,620
How did no one see his ass?

1718
01:14:52,620 --> 01:14:57,780
So it's an active crime scene and they knew that the earrings were there and they went

1719
01:14:57,780 --> 01:14:58,780
back and they were like, what the fuck are they doing?

1720
01:14:58,780 --> 01:15:00,340
I don't think they knew the earrings were there.

1721
01:15:00,340 --> 01:15:05,900
I think what had happened was, this is my opinion, they were canvassing the area and

1722
01:15:05,900 --> 01:15:10,020
he got there first and kind of ran through where he knew she was abducted and grabbed

1723
01:15:10,020 --> 01:15:11,020
it and then ran away.

1724
01:15:11,020 --> 01:15:12,020
That's some dexter nuts.

1725
01:15:12,020 --> 01:15:13,020
Yeah, it's totally dexter.

1726
01:15:13,020 --> 01:15:14,020
Right?

1727
01:15:14,020 --> 01:15:15,020
Wow.

1728
01:15:15,020 --> 01:15:17,220
What a fucking ballsy bitch.

1729
01:15:17,220 --> 01:15:18,940
So not that he's cooler than anything.

1730
01:15:18,940 --> 01:15:19,940
No, yeah.

1731
01:15:19,940 --> 01:15:20,940
I'm just saying.

1732
01:15:20,940 --> 01:15:21,940
It's wild.

1733
01:15:21,940 --> 01:15:22,940
Like Jesus.

1734
01:15:22,940 --> 01:15:25,060
It's a wild story and we're just fucking getting started.

1735
01:15:25,060 --> 01:15:26,780
Part two is gonna be like super intense.

1736
01:15:26,780 --> 01:15:27,860
So excited.

1737
01:15:27,860 --> 01:15:29,100
As if this one wasn't fucking intense.

1738
01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:30,380
It's gonna be super intense.

1739
01:15:30,380 --> 01:15:33,220
It's gonna probably be a little bit longer than this episode.

1740
01:15:33,220 --> 01:15:36,420
But we're gonna get it all out there because I am not about a part three.

1741
01:15:36,420 --> 01:15:41,220
So we're gonna get it all out there and you are gonna be getting part two of this episode.

1742
01:15:41,220 --> 01:15:45,620
The same day as our Patreon bonus episode, are you ready to tell the people who we're

1743
01:15:45,620 --> 01:15:46,620
doing?

1744
01:15:46,620 --> 01:15:49,220
I got some rotten meat in my freezer.

1745
01:15:49,220 --> 01:15:52,260
I knew we were gonna do that.

1746
01:15:52,260 --> 01:15:54,220
Just want to take some pictures.

1747
01:15:54,220 --> 01:15:55,220
Relax.

1748
01:15:55,220 --> 01:15:57,500
The fuck is that smell?

1749
01:15:57,500 --> 01:15:58,500
Seriously.

1750
01:15:58,500 --> 01:15:59,820
So we will be doing Dommer.

1751
01:15:59,820 --> 01:16:00,820
Oh.

1752
01:16:00,820 --> 01:16:01,820
I know.

1753
01:16:01,820 --> 01:16:04,340
If the Instagram post today didn't give it away.

1754
01:16:04,340 --> 01:16:05,340
Yeah, for sure.

1755
01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:08,180
We have been wanting to tell you.

1756
01:16:08,180 --> 01:16:10,860
I cannot tell you how many people have requested Dommer.

1757
01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:12,180
That's two.

1758
01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:15,580
If you're gonna go into the nitty gritty details, which I know you were, I wouldn't

1759
01:16:15,580 --> 01:16:16,780
want to do it for a regular case.

1760
01:16:16,780 --> 01:16:17,780
I think it's too graphic.

1761
01:16:17,780 --> 01:16:18,780
Yeah.

1762
01:16:18,780 --> 01:16:19,780
It's bad.

1763
01:16:19,780 --> 01:16:20,780
Yeah.

1764
01:16:20,780 --> 01:16:21,780
It's bad.

1765
01:16:21,780 --> 01:16:22,780
Even the word like putrefied.

1766
01:16:22,780 --> 01:16:24,780
It's coming to mind.

1767
01:16:24,780 --> 01:16:30,140
No, we are gonna, Koala is gonna be doing Dommer and of course, as you people know, as y'all

1768
01:16:30,140 --> 01:16:34,900
know with our Patreon bonus episodes, we both know who the other person is doing so that

1769
01:16:34,900 --> 01:16:37,900
we can give it our all as far as explanations.

1770
01:16:37,900 --> 01:16:41,460
I'm not gonna do any external research, but I know the case of Bundy.

1771
01:16:41,460 --> 01:16:42,460
Yeah.

1772
01:16:42,460 --> 01:16:43,460
So I'm not Bundy of Dommer.

1773
01:16:43,460 --> 01:16:46,660
I will be contributing as well with my comments.

1774
01:16:46,660 --> 01:16:47,660
So excited.

1775
01:16:47,660 --> 01:16:48,660
So excited.

1776
01:16:48,660 --> 01:16:52,060
So that will be coming out on the 29th as well as this episode, part two will be coming

1777
01:16:52,060 --> 01:16:53,060
out on the 29th as well.

1778
01:16:53,060 --> 01:16:54,780
So you're gonna get double the action.

1779
01:16:54,780 --> 01:16:58,460
Double the action to very, very famous cases.

1780
01:16:58,460 --> 01:16:59,460
Yes.

1781
01:16:59,460 --> 01:17:04,940
And you guys have one week to get that tier two, tier three Patreon membership so that

1782
01:17:04,940 --> 01:17:07,020
you guys have access to that Dommer case.

1783
01:17:07,020 --> 01:17:08,020
Yes.

1784
01:17:08,020 --> 01:17:10,620
As well as our previous cases that have come out on the 29th.

1785
01:17:10,620 --> 01:17:11,620
Absolutely.

1786
01:17:11,620 --> 01:17:15,340
And then every case that we do as well, Patreon members do get access to AdFree.

1787
01:17:15,340 --> 01:17:16,980
So there's completely AdFree.

1788
01:17:16,980 --> 01:17:17,980
No content warning.

1789
01:17:17,980 --> 01:17:19,980
No content warning on the bonus episodes.

1790
01:17:19,980 --> 01:17:20,980
Right.

1791
01:17:20,980 --> 01:17:24,260
But on Dommer, the bonus episodes, what do you mean?

1792
01:17:24,260 --> 01:17:26,820
Because I was saying on every episode they get on the Patreon, no ads.

1793
01:17:26,820 --> 01:17:27,820
Oh, yeah.

1794
01:17:27,820 --> 01:17:28,820
But there's content warnings on those.

1795
01:17:28,820 --> 01:17:29,820
There's just no ads.

1796
01:17:29,820 --> 01:17:30,820
Right, correct.

1797
01:17:30,820 --> 01:17:35,860
But the tier two and the tier three that get that exclusive bonus episode, that Dommer

1798
01:17:35,860 --> 01:17:38,980
episode will have no content warning, no ads.

1799
01:17:38,980 --> 01:17:40,580
We are just going straight into it.

1800
01:17:40,580 --> 01:17:41,580
No editing.

1801
01:17:41,580 --> 01:17:42,580
No editing.

1802
01:17:42,580 --> 01:17:45,740
So you guys know what you're signing up for.

1803
01:17:45,740 --> 01:17:46,740
Yeah, exactly.

1804
01:17:46,740 --> 01:17:50,060
Because I'm not gonna do a content warning on fucking Dommer.

1805
01:17:50,060 --> 01:17:51,580
It's just gonna be gross.

1806
01:17:51,580 --> 01:17:52,580
Yeah.

1807
01:17:52,580 --> 01:17:53,580
So you do it.

1808
01:17:53,580 --> 01:17:55,580
Well, I think you kind of did the same thing with Toybox and Albert Fish.

1809
01:17:55,580 --> 01:17:56,580
Albert Fish.

1810
01:17:56,580 --> 01:17:57,580
Yeah.

1811
01:17:57,580 --> 01:17:59,620
Those are the other two we've done so far with the Patreon bonus episode.

1812
01:17:59,620 --> 01:18:01,860
This will be our third installment of that.

1813
01:18:01,860 --> 01:18:06,860
So go ahead and get enrolled into the Patreon for tier two and three if you want access

1814
01:18:06,860 --> 01:18:09,300
to that bonus episode.

1815
01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:13,220
The tier one Patreon, you can also access every episode ad free.

1816
01:18:13,220 --> 01:18:17,020
The bonus episode is gonna be just for tier two and tier three.

1817
01:18:17,020 --> 01:18:19,900
And also get your tickets to the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival.

1818
01:18:19,900 --> 01:18:21,940
That's happening sooner than we think.

1819
01:18:21,940 --> 01:18:22,940
All right.

1820
01:18:22,940 --> 01:18:24,860
Well, I guess we should be looking forward to part two.

1821
01:18:24,860 --> 01:18:25,860
I know.

1822
01:18:25,860 --> 01:18:27,460
I need a shower after that.

1823
01:18:27,460 --> 01:18:29,980
Okay, well, we will see you guys next time.

1824
01:18:29,980 --> 01:18:30,980
Thanks for listening.

1825
01:18:30,980 --> 01:18:31,980
Love you.

1826
01:18:31,980 --> 01:18:32,980
Bye.

1827
01:18:32,980 --> 01:18:40,580
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