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Hey guys, it's Anthony Bandiero Here attorney and senior legal instructor for Blue to Gold law enforcement training, bringing into the roadside chat from the studio. Alright, this question comes from an officer in California, all right. So let me just kind of give you the question basically is will a no trespassing sign and they closed gate prohibits you from doing a knock and talk. Alright. So before I kind of go into my feedback here, let me get, let me give you some context here. So deputies in a role setting, they want to do a knock and talk on a burglary suspect. They don't have probable cause to arrest them. Now the suspect lives on a 100 acre ranch. It's fenced barbed wire, the driveway gate is closed, but also to keep the cows in, right. It's a rancher to working ranch, but the gate is not locked. There are several no trespassing sign No Trespassing signs provided near the front gate. about midday, the deputies open the gate drive through and close the gate behind them don't let the animals out. Right. They drive down a mile long driveway to reach a suspects house. And they talk to him. So the officer has two questions. Number one is are we good here on a knock and talk in number two is if if we are or not, you know, if we develop probable cause to arrest him? Can we arrest him? Okay. So whether or not whether or not a knock and talk is lawful, is falls into the Girl Scout rule. Okay, it's it comes from a case called Florida versus Jordan's US Supreme Court. So the Girl Scout rule basically means this do you believe? You know, take the cop part out of it? Right? I know your mission is to find out. But take the car cop part out. Do you believe that the Girl Scouts could do the same thing without offending? This person's raised quantitation of privacy? Right? Or trespassing on his property? Do you believe that? He would expect or understand that some people want to go to the ranch and try to sell them cookies. Do you believe that? That those No Trespassing signs? And the other context here? Do you believe that a politician looking for votes wouldn't feel comfortable going up to the gate? context matters to in the sense of where this guy is. He's on 100 acre ranch. So of course, he's supposed to have gates and fences. Um, we also it's very common to put you know, barbed wire up and so forth. Razor wire up around people's property because people steal stuff, right? It's remote. Um, the No Trespassing signs it makes sense. I don't want you on my property for illicit purposes. Now, the Ninth Circuit, you can for the people that live in the Ninth Circuit, ARBs, are working to light the Ninth Circuit right for the cops. They know that the Ninth Circuit is a little tougher than most circuits. And even the cops in New York City know the reputation Ninth Circuit, they have a case that does talk about closed gates and no trespassing signs near the front gate. And that basically, they held that that gave you a signal that you could not do a knock and talk. That was not one of these ranch cases. That's where the No Trespassing signs sign was right at like the front of the yard and the closed gate. I've always been suspicious, that suspicious case to begin with because a lot of people put No Trespassing signs up just because that's, you know, it's routine to do that, especially on farms. I'm sure you see a bunch of other No Trespassing signs on other people's farms. It's just kind of a almost comes with the property.
My this can go either way your judge is going to matter on this one I'm going to lean towards it's lawful, the knockin talk is lawful. Um, because I don't see that you know that because the gates unlocked and so forth. And we have a reason for the gate. It just makes sense. I don't think that the Girl Scouts are trespassing on this person's property, just with those other factors. And it makes sense that he has these things up in place. However, there are reasonable minds that can differ with me. So that's my first thing. Now the author also mentions, look, we don't have an open this is open fields, and it certainly is. So we don't have a college violation. So wouldn't that, you know, will it really matter if you know, this fence? And the answer is it does matter because it still sends a signal to you about what this person whether this person must be left alone or not. So even though passing through the gate would not violate the guy's curtilage Because curls cannot extend out that far. It's only the area around the home. But again, I think you're okay. I'm gonna lean on the side of that this is a lawful knock and talk, especially if it's articulated correctly. Now the next question he has, okay, let's say that we're at the front door, he, you know, apparently this is a from real case that he did speak if we did find if we have probable cause and he's on his porch, can we hook him up? And answer is yes. That's us versus Santana, he's within a source threshold was don't write or out. He is a wrestle for under the Fourth Amendment. Now, if he's inside of his home, then he's off limits, you would have to get to district pre approval unless you have some form of exigency eminent to escape, a legitimate officer safety issue, imminent destruction of evidence, right, that type of stuff. So great question. You know, again, the ninth circuit is a little tricky, so I'll want to hesitate on giving you a black and white answer on this one. I'm leaning towards Yes, but you know why? It can go either way at the same time. Alright. So articulation is going to be the key on this one, I believe about why the general public could do the same thing that you did. I hope you like it, guys. If you want to keep me want me to keep doing what I'm doing. Hit the like, or hit the like or comment, subscribe, share with your friends, and until next time, my friends stay safe.
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