So I had started job hunting. It was right after COVID and a lot of things happen over COVID.
You get depressed, a lot of things are enlightened at the end of the day.
I wouldn't say I worked a lot. I was working on a job that was unfulfilling.
I was working on a job that I thought we shouldn't have taken.
In this particular year, I was being bullied. So I couldn't handle it anymore. I no longer felt
like I belonged. And for me, I want to feel like I belong everywhere and anywhere at any time.
This is Brooke. She's telling me about her previous job at a financial consulting firm.
They made me just feel like my opinions didn't value her any longer. I mean, there was a large
shift in who worked there. A lot of people left and a lot of people new came in. So they all wanted
the new ideas. They didn't care about who was still there. It doesn't matter anymore. Just give me the
next place out of here. Just give me the next ticket. I just got to get out. What I loved so
much about that place was no longer there. And that was the people who I was working with,
the younger generation. They all kind of fleeted. So I pretty much jumped onto the next opportunity.
I know we're going to all sound like broken records on this podcast, but I think it's a
lesson that we all have to learn because we cannot jump from a sinking ship just to fall into the
cold water and just get hypothermia at this next horribly toxic place. But what if catching
hypothermia is the important hardship that we have to go through in order to understand our value,
learn how to set boundaries, and find a stepping stone to where we're supposed to go.
My name's Carly, and this is Toxic Workplace, a podcast that gives a platform for people
to share their stories of working in a destructive environment. I spent the first seven years of my
career within a toxic workplace, and let me tell you, it kills your spirit. This podcast is here
to expose what goes wrong in these companies, and hopefully it'll spark a change to make it right.
In this episode, we talked to Brooke, who jumped a sinking ship of a company,
only to find herself in more frigid waters. The company she jumped in with had zero processes
in place, complete lack of communication, and literally no leadership. You never want to fall
into the trap that the grass isn't always greener at the other end, because that's not true. I think
that a lot of us are just stumbling onto bad situations. You do kind of like beat yourself
up a little bit because you find out, oh crap, I got myself in this situation, and I'm going to
grab it. I got myself in this situation. I saw the red flags. I didn't want to take it, but I wanted
to stick it to the last people so badly and just move on. So this interview I went on, it was
actually really good. It started off, I was excited about it. I remember I was reaching out to my
friends, telling about it. I was like, oh my gosh, mom, I'm so excited about this job. The HR person
was very professional, gave me great information about the company. He sounded excited about it.
He made me feel very welcomed and happy. So I went to the next step, set up an interview in person.
At that time, when it's COVID, you don't really want to go in person interview. So that's how
important this was for me. I was like, I'm, I'm ready. I'm ready to get out of the house. Let's
go do it. So I get to the interview. I talked to the HR guy for a little while. He's, I assume,
trying to buy time for what now is my boss. Spoiler alert, I got the job. At that point,
I'm not noticing that my boss is probably chronically late to every meeting, which I find
out later, but that was just the first part of my new future with her. She was late, probably 15
minutes for my interview. At that point, I'm just excited to get out. And I didn't really realize
that she was that late. I was just more nervous. She seemed kind. She seemed charismatic, talkative.
Oh, talkative. I felt, okay, she's not scary. She seems cool. Well, the interview goes on
and the interview takes about two hours. I don't think I've ever been in an interview that long
with just one person. Every time she would ask me a question, I would start to answer it.
And she would interrupt me and answer it herself. And that just drove me crazy. I cannot believe
that I accepted this job knowing that she did that chronically. I walked out of that interview
wondering if she even knew who I was. She had asked me, oh, why are you leaving your previous
company? And I went to go answer and she goes, oh, it's probably because you don't want to sell.
Right? You don't want to do this. And she goes, that's why I left. I'm like, thanks. So it was
always like that. So the interview continues. You know, it's, it's gone on a lot. I've hardly said
anything. I mean, I probably said 20 words, I think in this interview, I was applying to become
the senior manager of the accounting department and my boss had started telling me why the previous
person had resigned. And it was due to her wanting to get pregnant and have a child. And she was like,
oh, she left because she went to have a baby. And I go, okay. And then she goes, and I know I
shouldn't ask this, but you're not going to get pregnant, right? And leave. Um, thanks for reminding
me. I'm single. In my head, I was like, it's definitely illegal, but maybe she's just loosey goosey.
Asking a woman if she plans to get pregnant during an interview is illegal. According to the
Pregnancy Discrimination Act, women affected by pregnancy are to be treated the same for all
employment related purposes. And this isn't news. This was passed in 1978, over 40 years ago.
What if Brooke was already pregnant or planning on having kids? That would be none of the company's
business. And according to the act should not contribute to the decision of whether to hire
Brooke. Brooke wanting to have a baby is beside the point. The company asked her something that
is discriminatory during her interview. That's illegal. Brooke overlooked numerous other red
flags, such as her boss being 15 minutes late to her interview and not letting her finish her
sentences. These red flags would eventually become daily occurrences from her boss after she accepted
the position. So the interview goes on. I'm getting tired and I'm hungry. I haven't ate yet. It's,
it's going on an hour and a half at this point. She goes, Oh, let me walk you around the office.
Then I go, okay. And then she starts showing me all these papers of like things I would be doing,
kind of like showing me the role, which I thought was kind of cool. I'm like, okay, that's nice that
she must really like me since she's like showing me her private work documents. She did show me
where I would be working in the future. And I kind of walked around. I'm like, there's no laptops here.
Do you guys not work remote? And I'm like, okay, whatever. And then I kept asking about the dress
coat because I'm like, it's important that I get like more casual work, um, attire. And I had asked
the HR person and they had definitely told me that it was more casual. You could wear jeans, whatever.
And I asked her because I just wanted to corroborate that, um, evidence. And she goes,
uh, no khakis, you know, dress pants, whatever we like what I'm wearing. And I go, okay. So when
they offered me the job, I asked the question, Hey, um, what is the dress attire? And he went on with
the same story and I go, okay, well, I just want to let you know that like my boss is saying
something different in the interview. Like, I just want to make sure I don't want this to be a bad
fit. And I, I get it. It sounds weird that like a dress code could make you stop not want to be there,
but like that was a, that's a big thing for me. You know, when I got to the car, I called my mom
and I said, gosh, I really liked that opportunity. I loved what I, what I built it up in my head to
be. I built this empire up in my head and I got there and it wasn't what I was expecting.
It was what I was hoping. And I created a fake scenario in my head of what I thought it was going
to be. And I thought that I had way more patience and the ability to overlook all of these things
by thinking, Oh, she's going to retire soon. I won't have to worry. But then I forgot that
she's been there for 25 years. So if other executives have let her go on with this type
of behavior, they must be equally as crazy. I definitely didn't think of that until after I
started. Then the interview comes to a close and she goes and says, I know I shouldn't say this,
but my gosh, I wish she would stop saying this. She's shooting herself at the foot.
Never say, but cause you know, it's bad. You know, it's not okay. It's like saying I'm sorry,
but you're not really sorry. She goes, Oh, I'd like you to come in just to work, you know,
for free on the weekend one day, you know, just to see if you really like it, get a feel for it.
Kind of wish I did. Then maybe I would hear her talk more and want to not work there.
It's easy to overlook things when you've predetermined what you want a situation to be.
When you want to escape a bad situation, all new opportunities seem better than the alternative
of staying where you are. This was definitely the case for Brooke. Unfortunately, once she started
in her new role, the blindfold slipped off and she saw things for what they really were, an
unorganized and mismanaged mess. I get the offer. It was really good. I said, you know,
I'm going to negotiate because there was a little bit more. They had told me there was about to be
35 entities that I would be taken care of. I learned that it was actually more like 70.
I don't know how they miscounted that, but whatever. So I accept the job. I negotiated to
boss ass move. Everybody should negotiate. If you want to build an empire, negotiate.
What's the worst they're going to do? Pull the offer from you. It probably wasn't the right place.
Anyways, so I start. I don't remember my first day. I don't, I don't remember it. I remember
my second day, my second day I got there and a lady had gotten up and walked out. I didn't quite
understand what was going on. I was like, all right, she just get out and walk out. It was the
stress. And my boss had come into my office and she just got out and, and granted she was leaving
because of a family situation, but she can't just get up and leave out of nowhere like that.
We needed her and they were about to close down their system that day. The system was ending. It
was a stressful day. Lady just had enough of it. So here I am working on trying to do what she was
supposed to do. This woman would have been one of my staff. So I, she would have been dealing with
like receivables. She just got up, got out, and you kind of uncover all the things that she wasn't
doing during COVID kind of let things lapse, but there were things going on in our personal life.
So I, I kind of could empathize with her and I was like, okay, well it sounds like she's going
through a rough deal at home. She's probably really stressed out and scared, but my boss was like,
she just can't leave. Like we have a job to do. So, okay, this is kind of weird. This is weird
because she should be caring about her family life more than what is going on at work for sure.
So that happens. It's whatever moot point now. There's no clearer indication of a high stress,
low morale work environment than when someone just up and walks out. At this point,
Brooke was still buying into the idea that this company had promised, but with one of her staff
leaving and her boss commenting that the employee can't just leave despite a serious personal issue,
Brooke is starting to wonder if she made the right move. So that whole ordeal happens and I wasn't
that stressed. I was just kind of like, this is weird. Then the next week comes and I get an email
that says, Hey, can you meet us in the conference room at 3 30? We want to go over your next task.
And I go, sure. I'll meet you guys then. She emails me at 3 30. Hey, we're not ready for you.
We'll let you know. And then it keeps going. They're not responding to me. They haven't called me in
yet. So I kind of reach out. They're like, Oh, we're still in another meeting. We'll, we'll get you
when we're ready. So it's five, it's four 30. And I'm kind of like, all right, well, when are they
going to talk to me? Cause I really don't want to be here after five. So it's encroaching five in my
mind. No meeting at a workplace should happen after four 30. It's just common courtesy, you know,
after four 30, that's when you start decompress, you read your emails, you make sure that you
tidied up your day. It's four 40. And I'm like, when are they going to meet with me? Should I leave?
I mean, they're not answering me. I'm kind of stuck here. I don't, I don't know what I'm supposed to
be doing. I'm, I'm on an island. And then they call me in it's four 40 and they give me this task.
And I walk in there and very bluntly say, Hey, I have a hard stop at five 15. And that's what you
have to do in all those situations. When you can tell someone lacks boundaries, put your boundaries
up. Setting boundaries in the beginning of a work relationship will establish clear expectations on
all sides. Brooke has been open and clear in her communication with her new employer. But so far,
it seems like her boss and the other executives are not cognizant of Brooks time, which is the
most crucial boundary to respect in any situation. So I get this project and it's a monthly task,
which they already knew about, but they just sprung it on me last minute without giving me
any information prior to that, which this becomes a normal occurrence that I learn about.
And I go, okay, well, when's this due by? And they go tomorrow. And I go, well, I have a four hour
meeting tomorrow. I think this is going to take some time. You know, there's might be a lot of
transactions, how many transactions they go there, you'll be able to get this done in that time.
You know, the last person got it done, you know, in a couple hours ago, yeah, but they were on a
different software. And do you really know that's how long it was? And I only asked that because I
felt like there were a lack of controls and processes in place that they really didn't know
how long things were taking people or actually analyzing it. They just assumed they didn't
realize people were working outside of work, maybe staying later, coming in when other people were
there just to try to catch up. So I've noticed with my boss that she first off has a time fallacy.
And this was, this whole situation was the first time I really knew that she had a bad time fallacy
and that people were afraid to speak up because I had asked, I go, well, can I delegate this off to
some other people? This really just data entry. I could delegate that off, continue on with other
products that I was given instead of just, you know, doing this, just to try to put a bandaid on
a bad situation. And she goes, yeah, sure. Well, I find out that none of these people had permission
in the system to actually do the job. So I constantly was reaching out to my boss trying
to get the permissions added. The system was so wonky in that instance where every little thing
people did, you had to give them permission to do it mainly because they didn't know how to use
the new software that they implemented. It's good software, but badly managed, badly implemented.
They don't plan. It's not anything with IT. They don't plan. They have a horrible sense of, okay,
this is the next three steps. We need to get someone in line for this. You know, we got this
coming up next week. This person just walked out. We need to let this person know right away what
they'll be taking over. Give them a heads up. So I start on the transactions. My call is about to
start. My meetings are about to start. So I got to get those other people on it so they can get it
going. They were like, oh my gosh, we have to get this done by today. This is ridiculous. They
cannot expect that. So I go, yeah, I don't know what's going on. I'm sorry. I was just given this
job as well. I'm just as confused as you are that they didn't let us know before they didn't finish.
They didn't have nearly enough time to enter it all in the system. I took it home. It was a Friday
night and I worked on it for probably five more hours. Well, before I left, I said to my boss,
hey, I'm going to need a computer. And she goes, why? And I go, because I don't have a laptop at
home and I have to finish this now. And she goes, oh, okay. And I go, I really need some more notice
when you're giving tasks and a better management of how long it will actually take.
Because this is a lot. So I get home and working on this. I'm upset because I just left my last job
for better work life balance. You know, it's not that I don't want to work after five. It's the fact
that I left my last job where I never really had to work after five unless it was busy season. I
never had to work really on the weekends unless it was busy season. I had a pretty good work life
balance there just to come here and have to work extra. And I've worked more weekends here during
the summer than I ever did, which is frustrating because in the interview I was told, I asked
numerous times and told them why I was leaving my last place. Brooke was told that this position
would not have the long hours she was used to in her previous job. But within the first week,
she was given a project with an unrealistic time budget and pressured to turn it around quickly.
After working over the weekend, Brooke knew she would need to talk with her boss about realistic
expectations to which she was hopeful her boss would listen. So I'm working on this and then I
finally sit there and I go, I'm going to bring facts to this situation just to see what she says.
So I do the facts. I find out there's 480 transactions that I have to enter into the system
and I said, okay, let's be gracious and say every single one to me two minutes each. And I'm going
to do the math real quick just so that I'm on point here and that's 16 hours. And when I asked
them how long this project would take, they were like, oh, it'll take like four hours. So I get to
the office on Monday and I said, okay, I have an arsenal in my back pocket, a calculator and facts.
And I get in the office and I ask her, I asked my boss, I go, question, how many minutes do you think
one transaction takes? And she goes, oh, I don't know, five minutes each. So I go, okay. So I do
the same math. I go, that's a 40 hour work week right there. And I looked at her, I go, I'll be
generous. I'll give you two minutes. I go, that's 16 hours, 16 hours to do that job. Nothing. She
said nothing in that defense. She just said, well, the last person got it done in, you know, three
hours. And I go, that's what you think. That's what you're assuming. And also it was in a different
software. This is a brand new software. The first time we're ever putting it in. Once I saw that
happen, I was able to bring that process down to two hours. So, um, after going through that whole
ordeal, I was like, I have to automate this. There is no way I can have one person spend 16 hours or
40 hours constantly. Every time I'm like, well, can I delegate this down? No, that's not their job.
You should really do that. And it's things that are so easy. It's things that anybody could do it.
And I could take more from my, my boss would, that would be higher level work harder. That maybe
stresses her out. If she would just let me delegate it the right way, you'll overstress them.
And they'll leave. They're already leaving those. The staff are already busy. The staff are already
running for the Hills. I mean, they were, have been since I started, there's one lady who's retired.
I mean, she retired, but like, still she probably had a couple more years in her, but she's like,
I don't want to deal with this. One lady walked out another one quit. I mean, I'm, I'm done with
my door closing at this point. Every time I door closes, I get nervous because I know someone else
is gonna leave. So I've asked for more staff and my boss goes, why we don't need more staff. This
new, this new software is going to be great. And I, I don't want to hire someone just to let them go.
And in my opinion, they have needed more staff since before this new software came into play.
And they're like, well, it's supposed to be making us quicker. And I go, I don't think so.
I think that you will always have an issue. I go, you could at least get another admin person.
Everybody at our stores are understaffed. So it causes bad data to come back. And then we have to
work harder to fix it. Understaffing causes turnover. It's a ripple effect. When a company
doesn't have enough employees to cover all required duties and tasks, then existing employees get
buried, overworked and burnout. Burnout causes less efficient staff. Mistakes are made, which
creates even more work to fix. Eventually something's got to give and an employee leaves,
which buries the rest of the team even more. Before you know it, a small ripple becomes a
tsunami wave that wipes out the entire team if nothing is done to adequately staff.
So my third week, my boss is out of town on vacation. And I get a little concerned because
she is reaching out to us more than she ever would have in the office. I heard more from her while
she was on vacation with her family than I did when she was actually in the office. And you know,
the HR person, they come into my office and they go, Hey, how's everything going? And I go,
I'm concerned. I don't think it's a good look when your executive is going on vacation,
but does not show any constraint to stay off the computer, to let their people work, to allow
to allow some kind of work life balance to be shown that it's okay to work there. And for me,
that makes me nervous. I go, what do they expect me to do when I go on vacation? I go,
because when I'm going on vacation, I'm not looking at my phone. I'm not looking at my computer. I'm
going on vacation. We are not firemen. We are not there to save the world. Whatever is going on,
it can wait. The actions at the top set the tone for the rest of the company.
Brooke is entirely justified in her concern that her boss is working while on vacation.
It sends several messages. First, that employees should put work before personal and leisure time.
And secondly, that tasks cannot be delegated and handled by Brooke and her team, which is a lack of
trust. Micromanaging mixed with the lack of work life balance creates a company where employees
are burnt out and feel disempowered, which stifles growth and efficiencies. My boss again, works seven
days a week. So no holds barred. There was a girl loft and she goes, Oh, let me text her about that.
I go, why? I go, why can't you just send an email to her? And then she'll get back to you when she
reads it. Not anything that's urgent. We don't need to get it done right away. And I brought that up
to these two people in the marketing department. They're in the know. They understand what I'm
seeing. They're seeing we're both not saying because we're both feeling it out. You know,
it's still I'm still new there. I'm not going to say anything. I've walked past one of the guys.
I could see him being frustrated. He goes, because our bosses love to work 24 seven.
Chronically, everybody is wearing 50 different hats. And there is no system in place. Nobody
has like a real role. It's just whatever gets thrown to you, you do because there's a lack
of processes. There's a lack of people in the right place. There's lack of delegation to the
appropriate areas. People are the executives are too busy. They have no idea how to lead.
This company is owned by people who aren't here day to day to see how it's actually being run.
The owners are not around there. I mean, they couldn't see how their employees are being
treated. They see us on the fun days, the days that we go out for company outings. That's it.
They don't see the day to day of us being stressed out. They don't see, Oh my gosh,
what's going on. And also what I do know of the owners is that they're pushy. They want their
stuff immediately. It doesn't matter what day of the week it is, you better get it to them.
They're all like, they don't care. And they have no boundaries. The executives there don't have
boundaries. The owners don't have boundaries. The air they breathe revolves around work.
I've heard this not only from inside the company, once a week I volunteer with this group of awesome
individuals and you know, they finally found out I started a new position. And then they asked me
where I work and I gave them the name. They're like, Oh, no wonder why you're having a tough
time there. I worked there and it was the two worst years of my life. It was the lowest year
of my career. And then their wife walks by and their wife goes, what are you talking about?
You don't like your job? They go, where you work? And then they say the name and she goes, Oh,
don't even get me started on that place. This was after being there for a few months.
I didn't need corroboration at that point of knowing that this wasn't a good fit. I kind of
had met my match and I said, this is not going to work out. The owners of this company are not part
of day to day operations. They're completely disconnected from what is actually happening
within the walls of the business. Understanding the human element of a company should be first
and foremost before any other concern in a business. Because without people, you don't have a business.
This company is floundering. There are no boundaries. There are no processes. There's
no work life balance. What does the longevity of a company look like that doesn't value these
necessities? There was another situation where one of my staff was on vacation. So my boss decided
it would be a great time to let me know about the work ethic of the staff and how many times the
staff has been written up, how behind the staff is on on their work. And I go, okay, I go, so you
have all this paper trail. They're still not doing their job. They're behind. Why not just move the
rock? Stop kicking it. Move it. You know, she might have talked longer during the day than she should
have. She was always on her phone every time I walked past. I saw other people working way harder.
I did. I saw people getting out of business. They were trying to help her out getting out of
what she was under the fire with. I do see some parts where maybe she did need some more help.
She was unmotivated at some point. You know, once you get unmotivated,
the the snowstorm just keeps tumbling, just keeps building up and you can't do anything about it.
I could see why she was getting written up. Why do we keep spending our time to write her up and
making her feel worse about the situation instead of just moving her? Maybe getting her a different
role. She's unmotivated. There's options here. It might not be firing, but we got to move it.
What are you doing? And she goes, well, I can't fire her because she's black, has diabetes, and
older. So it's not like she's just one 25 year old white girl that I can fire. I was speechless
when I heard that. I was speechless. I was looking at her like, did she just say that in front of me?
Not only is it racist, I go because you should never look at someone as what color they are,
what disabilities they have, how old they are. They are employees. You can look at how to treat
them better, but you should not look at those things. You should not look at their gender.
That's illegal. All that, every statement there was legal. And then to say, it's not like she's
some 25 year old white girl to someone who's in their mid 20s and is white. Now I feel like
at any moment I could get fired. I feel uncomfortable here now. And that's when I had kind of started
thinking this is maybe not the right place for me. On the EEOC's website, it states that, quote,
in general, you treat all of your employees the same way, holding them accountable for their work,
rewarding them when appropriate, and imposing disciplinary measures when necessary.
You do not base employment decisions on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age,
disability, or genetic information, unquote. An employer's actions become discriminatory
when you treat an employee differently than others based on one of these protected classes.
Here's what I'm seeing. Brooke's boss specifically brought up this employee just to point out the
inefficiencies and frustrations that she's causing within the team. She wasn't actually looking for a
resolve here because if she was, she would have considered Brooke's suggestion. Rather, she was
looking to complain about this employee and then blame her disability, age, and color of her skin
as the culprit of the problem as to why nothing has been done. She was also provoking resentment
from Brooke by pinning her against this employee with the follow-up comment of, it's not like she's
a 25-year-old white girl I could just fire. This is targeted and racist, but in a sort of backwards
way. The EEOC was implemented as a means to mitigate discrimination, but it seems as though
Brooke's boss is using it in a way to leave an employee stuck in a bad situation and then blame
them for their protected classes as to why she won't do anything about it. As long as the employee
is taking all of the necessary steps to assist this employee and address issues as they would
anyone else in this situation, then no laws are broken. A couple more weeks pass and I start
setting more boundaries because I had noticed that I was getting seven projects a day,
completing two, and getting more and more and more. Every time I set up my week and I said,
okay, I want to get this stuff done this week, I get more projects that were not related to
anything that was on my job description. Not saying I'm one of those people like, that's not my job,
but like this stuff was insanely not my job. And I got this onboarding task. They knew this new store
was opening and they give it to me and I had to work until 11 o'clock each night just to try to
get it done in time because it was about to open. And they had no plan and who was going to help
onboard it, but they do this all the time. They open stores, they close stores, they open stores.
It's nonstop. They should have a process in place and a team in place to do this.
And they don't. It was me and they're like, well, who else is going to do it? And I go,
I don't know, but I don't think it should be me. Or it has nothing to do with my function of being
a senior manager onboarding a new company. This is not my department. This place's biggest weaknesses
are their lack of processes, their lack of changing with the times become paperless,
their poor IT technology in place. I mean, they refuse to move forward. They refuse to delegate.
I mean, delegation would help them so much. Those leaders could actually lead. They refuse to make
processes when they're onboarding new stores. They refuse to make processes when they leave.
They have no game plan. Never underestimate the power of processes. Implementing new processes is
a challenge to get everyone on board, but a good business leader knows that putting processes into
place will help the company become more efficient, generate happier employees, and ultimately become
more profitable. The problem in Brooks company is that the business owners are not part of the daily
operations and the people who hold executive titles are overworked. You cannot lead in a
boundaryless environment. You can't. And who sets boundaries? Leaders. And if they're overworked
and they're working 12 hour days, seven days a week, they can't even stop for a second to put
processes in place. Me, I'm sitting there, they give me these jobs that are so easy that like,
I just want to give to someone else so that I can sit there and start making new processes
to speed up their jobs so that they can do these things. I'm cringing watching myself doing this
when I could be doing things that are like actually making it better. And I can't do that
because I'm getting bogged down with administrative tasks. So I heard from the marketing department
that there have been people who go to like the owners before they quit. And the only thing that
happens is that the next day they have a large amount of catering come in. So they just try to
keep people happy by feeding them. So instead of hiring new people, they just feed us once a week.
And like it's like hardcore like meals, like it's not like just like a cheap pizza party. It's like
real meals. So I'm like, we could just cut that out and get more people and then people would be
happier. And then the marketing department's like, yeah, that's what we've been saying. But like,
we, and I'm like, why don't you guys speak up? And they're like, you try speaking up, they'll
look at you like you're stupid. Well, like grandma always said, the way to a man's heart
is through his stomach. But since when was this a strategy for companies to cover up poor morale?
A burrito buffet only goes so far guys. Employees can see right through it. I asked Brooke what she
thought was the underlying issues with her boss. I asked her whether she thought her boss was
manipulative or knowingly burying her staff with tedious tasks that needed a whole process rehaul.
Brooke said it was her lack of self-awareness that contributed to the many frustrations.
So I think it's a lack of self-awareness. I think a lot of our actions are a lack of self-awareness,
a lack of, okay, I'm speaking too much. Maybe I should shut up and listen.
It's not about a malicious thing. It's poor. It's poor leadership. It really just is. It's poor,
like assigning your own role, having your own boundaries, and then also thinking that other
people just are going to do whatever you say. And it's like, I have a work week that I want to get
done. I want to get this done. You cannot just sign me up for every task. She gossips about
everybody. There's been times where she just, she's been told that she's bullying people.
I mean, someone came into my office saying, I'm really happy you're here and I'm happy that you're
so strong because the last person who was in this position got bullied a lot and they were,
they worked a lot of hours because they couldn't say no, because our boss just kept giving her
work over and over and over again. And she just, she couldn't do anything about it. And that was
the first time I heard something. And that was from one of the girls who was resigning. It was
the same girl who I said, moved the rock about. She ended up resigning like two weeks later. So
she moved her own rock. She comes to my office and she goes, I'm really happy you're here. You're
going to change a lot of things. And I like that you're so strong and not going to let anybody
push you over. And I'm like, what the heck is going on here? Two other people said, oh my gosh,
the previous person in your position just worked every day for 12 hours. And I'm like, okay, that's
two people who now have said this. So then I get the courage to ask one more person. I go,
what's going on? I go, did this person have to work a ton? How much did they work? Cause she sat
right outside my office. She would know. She goes, yeah, she worked a lot and she got burnt out.
And she goes, and I've heard that your boss does that to people. She just, that's how she is. She
just gives work with no care, no sense and just says, just do it.
Brooke's boss just doesn't listen. Anytime Brooke tried to make a suggestion or have a conversation
about underlying issues, her boss would cut her off and finish her sentences. One of the most
important traits of a successful leader is the ability to learn from the mistakes that she makes.
The ability to listen, to listen to what is working and what isn't, to listen to how employees are
feeling and why they're feeling that way, to listen for clues as to why there's so much turnover and
what's pushing employees out the door, to listen and take strategic action to resolve conflict.
That's what makes a leader. In this case, her boss doesn't care. It's easier to turn a blind eye and
carry on what's familiar and comfortable than it is to face issues head on and make a change.
I see that this company's lacking boundaries, not only in leadership, you know, them
making me stay late so that they could tell me what task and the task not being timely,
but also I see that the staff lacks boundaries. So there's instances where one of my staff,
they'll call me. I don't answer, so they walk over and they see I'm in a meeting with someone. So
they just barge in and still ask me the question anyways, even though I ignored the call.
And the thing that they're asking about is not that important, but this, I watched this happen
throughout the whole company. Everybody does it. We'll be in a conference room. The executives
just walk right in and just make a funny joke and like completely take the course of whatever
efficiency we had in that moment and just derail it, put a bomb on the railroad tracks, and the
rest of the meeting's gone. And this happens chronically. The marketing department and the
office manager, they are saying a lot of the same things that I'm seeing. They are validating what
I'm seeing to be true. And then the woman who left, she had kind of said the same things that
I thought were true. One woman said that she's been on two interviews in front of an executive
and in front of other employees. So one of the executives, he comes to my office, he closed my
door and I'm like, gosh, stop closing my door. Cause every time someone closes my door, something
bad happens. And he goes to me, Oh, I just had a conversation with this person. I really didn't
like what they said. And I go, what'd they say? And he goes, she's gone on two interviews already
and they better be scared. And I go, and what do you think about that? And he goes, I think she's
just spouting off and she's not really serious. And I go, I would take her seriously. Why don't
you take her seriously? I go, why didn't you get to the bottom of why she's looking instead of saying
she's spouting off and not believing her? Because well, she does this all the time. And well, what
if this is the last time or what if she's communicating to you that things need to change?
He goes, maybe, but like, she's not going to get as good a deal as she has here. And I go, what do
you mean? He's like, she works part time here. Nobody else is going to give her a part time job.
And I looked at him and I'm like, don't you pay her a lower wage so she works less hours?
Are you really doing her a favor? Are you guys just selling a different commodity?
I go, you're not doing her any different favor. I go, there's part time jobs out there right now
that are in her specific role. I can see it on Indeed right now. I go, there are jobs out there
for everything. My mom got the same job. So I go, I would take that conversation seriously. I don't
think it's right that she said it in front of other employees. And I don't think she should have said
it that way. Maybe that wasn't the best for morale. But I think you should take it seriously.
Whether an employee is bluffing or not, when someone feels they have to be bluffing,
when someone feels they have to threaten that they're leaving as a last ditch effort to be heard,
the employer needs to take it seriously. Because there's an underlying issue that needs to be
resolved. It's the employer's responsibility to understand why the employee feels the need to
throw out threats, empty or not. When there's a lack of boundaries, anything goes. Communications
become skewed. The leadership has a hard time deciphering what they should and shouldn't take
seriously. If the proper processes were in place, if boundaries were laid out and communications were
defined, the leaders of this company would have a handle on employee turnover, and their employees
wouldn't have to threaten to quit in order to be heard. Listening is the most powerful tool within
an organization. Whether you're in management or an entry level position, listening to what is
actually going on around you will give you clear guidance of what actions need to be taken.
Brooke is a listener. She has gathered her information through listening what those around
her have to say. She set clear boundaries that were broken over and over again. Luckily, her ability
to set expectations and stand her ground has led her to look for new opportunities. But this time,
she's vetting out her prospects more thoroughly with the hope she doesn't jump ship into the icy
waters of yet another toxic workplace. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Do you have a story
you'd like to share on our show? Go to toxic workplace podcast.com and click on be a guest,
fill out the submission information and we'll be in contact. Your story will be told anonymously.
All names are changed to protect the privacy of the company and its employees.
We look forward to hearing from you.