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Hey, Sean, how you doing, my friend?

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Let me make sure we're, you might want to unmute yourself.

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Let's see here.

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Okay.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Can you hear me now?

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Oh, thank you so much.

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Yeah, no problem, no problem.

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Yeah, sorry for the, well, I guess, okay.

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Sorry for the hassle, I guess.

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Oh, that's no problem at all.

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I'm just so honored to be talking to you.

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Let me just shut a few things down and then I'll start our time together.

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Okay, okay.

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Yeah, thank you so much, man.

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This is wonderful.

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All right, so what I normally like to do with these, so the reason why I started doing these

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is to involve people who normally don't think about water issues.

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And so I have found this is just a baby step.

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Basically what we're trying to do here is just make a personal connection with people

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and invite them into a larger conversation.

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And so I always do the same 10 questions, there's no surprises.

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And so they've been really fun.

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I haven't done one in a while.

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And then after I met you and a couple other people at the water summit, I thought this

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would be a good time.

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So, yeah.

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Okay, okay.

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Thank you so much.

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All right, well, great.

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Let's go ahead and get started here.

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I am recording this, but I'll edit it down.

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So what I like to do is first I like to do a personal introduction and then I'll just

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read your bio from your LinkedIn page, if that's okay.

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Okay, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

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Yeah.

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Okay, great.

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Well, then I'll go ahead and get started.

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Thanks so much.

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All right, well, welcome to Water Talks.

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I have with me today my friend Chun and him and I met two weeks ago, we were asked to

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attend, participate and share interest at MIT.

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They have an annual water summit, which we participated in.

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And Chun was one of the people that I got to meet.

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He is currently a PhD student at MIT, working on the intersection between chemical and environmental

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engineering.

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And he's interested in the issues of climate change, environmental sustainability, pollution,

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resource depletion, and development to make a difference in the world.

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So hopefully I got that right there, Chun.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Thanks for inviting me here.

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And I also, I'll go by Chun Man, but I...

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Oh, Chun Man, okay.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And yeah, it's great to hear from you again since the summit.

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And it's been a wonderful experience just talking to different people at a summit and

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meeting all these people from different backgrounds, but people who are interested in the same sort

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of issue around water and how to make things better for people around the world.

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I think that's really important.

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Yeah, it sure is.

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It was wonderful to find so many passionate, like-minded people.

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And it was just so, I learned so much.

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I took notes, I took copious notes, I engaged myself in over 12 hours of learning over a

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three day period.

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I wish it could have been more.

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I did have two meetings I had to attend.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I had to be a part of.

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So Chun, how did you find your way to MIT?

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What is your background?

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Just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you found your way to MIT.

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Yeah.

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I think I grew up in Hong Kong and that's kind of where everything is like a concrete

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jungle and that's where I kind of grew to become more closer to nature because I always

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feel like there's something odd about the living environment around me.

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And I was a Boy Scout and I used to camp a lot.

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And I was thinking a lot about sort of like Earth and climate change issues.

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And that's where it brought me to UC Berkeley from an undergraduate.

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And I think it's just what keeps me going is the drive to try to make a difference in

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this world.

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And I think as long as you have a passion, you know what is important to you, I think

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that's where it can bring you to places.

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And so now I'm at MIT also doing research that hopefully one day will be useful for

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people.

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And I'm working on making next generations of membrane technology for resource recovery

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and even for health hemodialysis purposes, but also a lot on water purification and desalination.

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Yeah.

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Tell everyone who doesn't have a technical understanding of the research that some of

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the research that you're working on, I think it's with nanofluids.

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Yeah.

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So what I do is we can imagine we have this material called graphene, which is a single

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layer of carbon atom.

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So you can think of a really, really thin sheet of my paper, but it's just one atom

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thin.

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And what we're trying to do is puncture holes in them using different ions.

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And by controlling the size of the hole, that can control what gets through and what doesn't

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get through.

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And if you control it such that the salt can be rejected and the water can get through,

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then that's how you can achieve desalination.

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Or even for health purposes, that's how you allow some proteins to get retained while

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getting the toxins out of the body.

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And that's what I've been doing for a while now.

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Well, I just want to say firsthand, thank you for the research that you do.

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For those of us, for those people who are going to watch us today and aren't in the

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research, academic, and science world of water, the stuff that Chun Man is working on is really

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cutting edge technology.

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And for those of you who aren't familiar with MIT, they're really the world's foremost

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technical institution in doing research and application for new breakthroughs and platforms.

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So I just want to say thanks for all of your hard work.

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And it's really great to have you on.

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So just want to back up a bit.

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So by way of Hong Kong, do you see Berkeley, to where I live in California?

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And now you find yourself living in Massachusetts.

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When you're there these days, what's your favorite place to eat?

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I guess now with all the lockdown, it's kind of hard to go out and eat.

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I actually cook a lot.

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So I've been trying different dishes, even trying making dim sum on my own.

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I got some bamboo steamers.

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And it's been great fun.

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But I think Hong Kong's food is where it feels home for me.

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That's wonderful.

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Well, I am planning on coming out to Cambridge next year for the Water Summit.

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And we'll definitely have to get a share meal in a beer.

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That'll be great.

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But I'm sure California probably has some of the better food.

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I always lead with locals and their favorite take on cuisine.

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I find that that's the most enjoyable path for every new likes.

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And I think for me, I just love eating different sort of things.

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I don't really get fixated on I need to get one sort of food.

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It's so interesting to learn about different cultures and to understand what people eat

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and how people interact.

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That's for me is really, really fun.

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Sure is.

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So you're at MIT.

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And where are you in your research?

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Are you at the beginning, the middle, or are you feeling like you're coming towards the

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conclusion?

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I guess for research, it's always hard to come to a definite conclusion.

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But you always need some sort of conclusion for things.

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And I think there's always more you can investigate and try.

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And I'm sort of in the middle stage and wrapping some projects up, but also exploring different

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things.

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I think that's what's exciting because there's so many opportunities.

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There's so many things that we don't know.

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But there's so many things that we know a little bit better.

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We might be able to design something that could be useful out there.

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And I think that's what research is about.

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And that's what's exciting about research.

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But I also see it's not just the research.

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Having the research, translating technology, talking to people out there in the field,

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seeing what they actually need, and trying to streamline the whole process, that's the

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important part of making these technologies actually worthwhile.

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Wow.

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That's really inspiring.

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So you've been in the academic world, the research world, for a long time.

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And you're very good at it.

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What are some things that you wish you knew when you started that you might communicate

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right now to someone who's starting out?

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I think branching out is always good.

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I think talking to more people just to get ideas from different fields.

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You might feel like you really want to do a certain discipline.

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But in this world, everything is kind of interdisciplinary.

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So just talk to people.

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You hear different people's ideas.

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And sometimes you can influence them, they can influence you.

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And that's really exciting.

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And that's something that I kind of learned along the way and to do more now, and just

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to be involved in different things.

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Well, I think you hit on something really important, that interdisciplinary aspect of

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learning and how really you're always taking your ideas and you're sort of merging them

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and cross-pollinating them all over the place.

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And that's where a lot of the creativity comes from.

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It's where a lot of curiosity comes from.

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And it's what continues to make learning and research actually interesting.

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And I know for myself, every time I've gotten maybe stuck, I always find my way out by applying

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interdisciplinary concepts kind of across.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What are some things that you're really curious about right now?

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They could have to do with your research or maybe not, but just some things that are top

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shelf right now as far as what you're curious about.

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I guess it's always curious on, well, COVID, it's a big thing.

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How do we bounce out of this?

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How do we, will that change how we approach society or how systems are?

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And how do we evolve into a better, more resilient sort of community and with more social safety

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net for everyone and everyone can kind of thrive.

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And I think that's something that is really something that a lot of people think about

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these days.

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And it's exciting.

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It's, I mean, it's sad to see a lot of the things that are happening or has happened,

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but it's also points to some places where there are a lot of opportunities where we

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can make a stride forward and really bring about change.

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Wow.

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That's inspiring.

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So what's something that you've failed at in the last 12 months that you'd like to talk

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about?

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Oh, something that I failed at, I failed at a lot of different things.

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But yeah, I mean, research every day is almost failing.

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You don't get the results you want.

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That's this kind of thing.

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Or you're always like, feel like you're behind your schedule.

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Yeah.

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But I think it's just like working it out, right?

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You know, you don't have to push yourself that hard.

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It's like things will come along.

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You're doing great things.

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You know what you're doing.

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You have, I think what's really important is you have to drive, you have the motivation

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to keep going.

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And I think failing is just learning.

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And that's life.

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That's what happens to people.

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And you don't internalize it.

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Everyone's vulnerable in a way.

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And just accept that.

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And accept that you can change and keep improving yourself.

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I think that's what I learned over these years.

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And I'm really glad that mindset have kind of served me well.

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Yeah.

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Well, I love what you said.

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I just think of, I don't use the word failure.

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We just learn.

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We just rephrase that word as an invitation to more learning.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is different ways of thinking about it.

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I think, I mean, things happen for a reason.

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It's not for no reason.

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So yeah, they sure do.

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I love that.

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I'm a strong believer in that.

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You're obviously very, you're on the cutting edge of researching new technologies that

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are going to lead to desalinization platforms in the future that do a better job and are

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more productive and are more helpful.

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And so if you can explain to someone who is maybe watching this for the first time, what

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is kind of, what do you see as kind of the current water situation in the world?

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I think as we all, we can always cite like the big WHO reports and stuff like a couple

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million or billion, a billion people lack like access to drinking safe drinking water.

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And I think, I think what, what moving forward, what, what is really exciting in this field

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is to start to think about infrastructure systems, right?

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Like we see a lot of the infrastructure sort of failing across, across the US, across a

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lot of the older cities and Michigan or so.

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And maybe we can have a separate design instead of like thinking of like one sort of desalination

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as like a catch all solution for all.

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I think it's really important to think about portfolios and really think about what are

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different ways where we can, we can solve the water sort of scarcity problem and how

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not just the supply side, but also looking at demand.

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Are there ways where we're consuming a lot of water that we don't, we don't have to

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and, and to free up that water for other communities.

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I think that's something that, that, that we're working on.

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And I mean, we're working a lot on the technology side, but I think there, there is a lot of

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things on the other economical or like political aspects too, that I think people are working

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on and I'm happy that we are all kind of pointing towards the same goal.

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Yeah, we, so you and I, we're both part of a conversation two weeks ago that a lot of

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it had to do around the idea of decentralization and desalinization.

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And that is the work that I have found myself personally involved in for the last six years.

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And so as we've gotten to know each other, what do you know about the project that I've

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worked on for six years in El Salvador?

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What do you know about ocean water?

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So I think, I think you guys are doing a great job because you guys work really closely with

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communities who are, who are having these sort of water scarcity problems and you're

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providing sort of like, I think looking at the solution space, right?

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What is possible and you're providing them with the, the, this sort of like source of

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livelihood for them.

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And I think, I think I'm really, really proud of what you guys are doing.

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And I think that's, that's something really impactful on the ground.

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Cause cause I think we can talk about all these grand ideas or anything, but I think,

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I think what really matters is like, does it, what's the impact on the ground?

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Like, does it touch the lives of people?

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I think, I think that's what, that's what really important to, to understand.

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And that that's, that's what, that's what OCN WTR is doing.

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And I, I'm really happy for you that you're doing that.

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And I'm, I'm sure it'll continue to sort of expand and continue to help different, identify

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different communities across, across, across places and really, really help solve their

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problems regarding water.

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Thank you, Chun, man.

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I really mean so much to me that to get your, your feedback about that, you know, when

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you, when you do work somewhere for six years and it's, it's as personal as it has been

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for myself and also for the 115 people that we've taken there to work on this project

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and you're at, it's like research, you're always working on it because you're never,

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you're never done with your idea.

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You never come to some finality about it.

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You're always working on it and you're always tweaking it.

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You're always trying to figure out a way to, a way to do it better.

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But it's really one of the, I guess, things that was personally encouraging for me was

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the interactions that I was able to have with everybody at the Water Summit and to understand

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that there's such a need for decentralized desalinization projects where, where we help

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get the cost of water.

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It's not something we talked a ton about, but I'm hoping to talk about in the future,

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but it's also important that not only do we build infrastructure for the marginalized

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communities, but it's also important because when you look at the inequality of water,

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the burden of cost is, is also something that is unevenly distributed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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When we talk about the world of water, we talk about those billion people that need

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water.

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And the water, unfortunately, as it currently stands, they also oftentimes carry the economic

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brunt of that as well.

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So not only, not only do we have an inequality in access, we have an inequality in cost.

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And so it was, it was so, it was so life-giving to me to be around so many people who care

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about that space.

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Yeah.

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And I think it's also thinking a lot more on, I guess, the cost side, but also making

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it sort of like sustainable.

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Like they can, they can afford them, like they can, they can run the systems themselves.

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So they don't rely a lot on sort of like philanthropy or the government, which, which there are

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a lot of fail states out there.

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So I think having, building the capacity on the community level is really important to

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both drive the cost down, but also bring in the know-how so, so they can continue to provide

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for themselves.

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Even if other people might, even they don't, yeah, they don't receive like help from other

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people.

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They can do it themselves.

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Yeah.

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I know for our, for our project, we, we privately funded that through our, through our church

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and there are pros and cons of doing it through NGOs, pros and cons of doing it through governments

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and pros and cons of doing it through, through churches.

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And the reality is we need all, all of those sectors to contribute when you have a problem

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that's, that's at this scale.

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And one of the benefits of working through our local church, there has been the, the

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ownership and management.

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One of the, one of the problems that drives up cost is when you have to pay for management

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and you have to pay for, pay for infrastructure.

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So I know for our, for our project in Palmer Ceto, we have actually installed this system

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at a local residence, at a local place.

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And so the ownership is, is local.

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And that, that many times when it comes to how you apply public health policy, especially

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when you're doing, into other countries, you're dealing with other cultures, the ownership,

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the local ownership is, is really the X factor for how you keep costs down.

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And I'll say from my personal experience, it's also the most time intensive.

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It is, I've spent six years working on, working on one project.

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And so I have so many questions for how to begin to scale the things that we've learned

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about.

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One of the, one of the things that I've been thinking about that's front and center for

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myself is how, how do you scale that?

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How do you scale relationally so that you can have that ownership so that you don't

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waste money when you're building infrastructure?

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I don't, I don't have an answer to that.

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Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's something that you just have to keep like exploring and trying

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different things.

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And eventually maybe you'll hit an answer, but I don't think there's like one particular

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answer, right?

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You just keep trying, keep doing, and you know, you're going in the right direction

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and that's, that's, that's, that's, that's really what matters.

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Thank you so much, man.

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Well, I just want to say on behalf of everybody that's going to hear this today, thank you

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for your time.

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And I just appreciate all the research and the work that you do.

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And I'm really looking forward to just continuing our friendship.

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And especially when I come out your way next year, I love to love to have a meal with you

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and be able to talk some more.

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And what I always like to do at the end of this is are there any last words that we need

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to hear from you?

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What would you like to say?

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I think, I think just go for what you are passionate about.

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And I think that's, that will drive your career, what you do for it.

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And I think, I think we are, we're all good people up there and we're all trying to make

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lives better around us.

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It doesn't matter if it feels big or small.

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I think as long as we touch some of the lives around us, that's, that's, that's really important.

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And I, I'm glad that I have the chance to talk to so many of you.

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And I'm, I'm glad that I have the chance to kind of do, do that in my own life.

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And I'm really thankful for that.

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So thanks a lot.

367
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,040
Well, thank you, Chimman.

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Wise words and thank you so much for your time.

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Yeah, thanks a lot.

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Yeah.

371
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Okay.

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All right.

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Thanks.

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Thanks.