1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Hey, today I get a chance to sit down and talk with my friend Curtis Honeycutt. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,840 We're going to talk a little bit about our background, how our paths cross, some of our 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:22,080 hope and vision for working together in the future, some lessons about some opportunity 4 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,480 in Europe, some lessons, some opportunity there. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,920 We've been surfing together one time. 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Yeah, we went surfing, well, no, you surfed. 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,920 I almost drowned. 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:38,000 Yeah, so I keep telling people this story and you're there and you just listen. 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,640 I want this story from your perspective. 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,200 I'm very eager to hear because I know what it felt like for... 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:51,760 I know that you don't mess around and my friends don't either. 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:01:01,840 I surf with a few chief of police, some vetted guys who also graduated from the FBI academy. 13 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,640 So I know you like to be taken seriously. 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:10,680 So I said, hey, my friend Curtis is coming out here with his family from Maryland and 15 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,960 we'll throw you in with the sharps, which is basically exactly what we did. 16 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:22,880 So the surf was six feet at Trussells. 17 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:30,280 For those of you who don't have a beach background, that's like one of the harder places in the 18 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,200 world to take up surfing. 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,240 The surf was a pretty solid size. 20 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,800 He's never held a surfboard, never been in the ocean. 21 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:48,960 I took him to basically one of the hardest places. 22 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,800 I told you to meet us at Bobby's, which you did. 23 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,000 I said, drive to Christine Edo's Park, walk down this trail. 24 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,760 Yeah, it's dark outside. 25 00:01:58,760 --> 00:01:59,760 I've never been... 26 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:00,760 It's dark. 27 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:01,760 Yeah. 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:02,760 You did it. 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,880 You walked a mile down to the beach. 30 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:19,760 You found us at the beach, no wetsuits, water was not that warm, surf's big, and you killed 31 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,760 it. 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:21,760 And I was like... 33 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:31,440 And after you left, I told Bobby, I think he's going to do well in Europe. 34 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,440 But you didn't even give me advice. 35 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,440 So you know, the whole thing was like, oh, all right, cool. 36 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,440 You only have to... 37 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,440 But was there... 38 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,640 With the sharks you got, there were no excuses. 39 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:44,640 We laughed about the whole thing. 40 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:49,640 And I thought, I think he's probably going to do well in another country, not knowing 41 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:50,640 another language, not having any... 42 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:51,640 I thought I was like, I think I do. 43 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:52,640 So that's why... 44 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:53,640 But you didn't even give me... 45 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:54,640 Like, what were you thinking? 46 00:02:54,640 --> 00:03:03,800 We're standing on the beach and you're waiting for me. 47 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,240 Your friends are out there. 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,440 I show up. 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,720 I just walked a mile in these flip flops that I never walked a mile in. 50 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,760 There was sand in them. 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,320 So it rubbed a hole in my skin. 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,480 That was the worst part of the whole day, was my left foot. 53 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,000 But I just get there and you're... 54 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,000 You didn't even give me advice. 55 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,000 I thought I was going to... 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,000 My ex... 57 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,000 I shouldn't have had expectations. 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,880 I was going to arrive at the beach and you're going to be like, okay, so here's what you 59 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:32,880 do. 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:33,880 Here's how you do it. 61 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,760 You just start talking about other stuff. 62 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,760 And all I hear is, all I'm waiting for is my surfing advice. 63 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:42,760 I get nothing. 64 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,760 Your surfing advice was follow me. 65 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,760 Yeah. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,360 And then, but at the end of the follow me was, and I'm going to leave you just so you 67 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,800 know, follow me, but not for long. 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,800 I was hearing up front that I was going to talk to you for 10 minutes in the water and 69 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,800 then I was going to go surfing. 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,800 Yeah. 71 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,800 So, most people would not like that. 72 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,800 I'll just put that out there. 73 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:08,800 Yeah. 74 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:15,800 But people who want a challenge, they figure things out. 75 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:16,800 So I don't... 76 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,800 By the way, I don't... 77 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:23,800 I thought you would like it because I know you're crazy when you've hung out enough to 78 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:24,800 know that you're like... 79 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,800 You're a crazy person where we both put our hands up. 80 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:28,800 Yeah. 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,800 So that's my side of it. 82 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:31,800 Yeah. 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,800 Okay. 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:33,800 Well, now let me tell you... 85 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:34,800 I thought you were going to like it. 86 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:35,800 I've taught 94 people... 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,800 I've taken 94 people surfing the first time they went surfing. 88 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,800 Wow. 89 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,800 And I've never taken anyone that trusts me. 90 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:44,800 Yeah. 91 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:45,800 I would have met... 92 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:46,800 I can see why. 93 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,800 But I just thought you had it in you. 94 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:48,800 Thank you. 95 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:49,800 I think this guy has it in him. 96 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:50,800 So there you are. 97 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Yep. 98 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:52,800 My wife... 99 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:53,800 I was right. 100 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,800 I'm not always right. 101 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Dude, that was... 102 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,800 Okay. 103 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:03,880 Here's what happened for me is I show up at a dark place in the morning and I don't know 104 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,520 where I am or what's going on and I can't really see what's happening. 105 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,520 I park. 106 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:09,960 I'm still kind of in the middle of the street. 107 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,840 You show up and just put a surfboard in the car. 108 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:17,000 And all I remember is you going like drive to the highway, go two exits down. 109 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,360 You're going to find surfers, follow the surfers that are walking. 110 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,120 There's a bunch of different places that these surfers go. 111 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,480 Don't go to any of those. 112 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:26,480 Just go to this one. 113 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:27,480 I don't even remember how you told me. 114 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,680 I have a Mark Bell, the shameless Sir Coffee Play, who owns this company. 115 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,520 I told him this story in Ego's song. 116 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,520 That's classic Ryan. 117 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Yeah. 118 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,520 Yeah. 119 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:39,520 Yeah. 120 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:40,520 100%. 121 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,520 So I get... 122 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,520 Well, I'm learning that. 123 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,520 Well, I get to where I'm walking and then halfway through you ride by me on your e-bike 124 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,680 and you're like, you're going the right way and you just keep going. 125 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,120 You're like, you're doing great. 126 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,120 My foot's bleeding. 127 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,120 I'm like, this is dumb. 128 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,640 I'm just... 129 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:58,640 I finally get there. 130 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,960 I get to the beach next to the Porter Potty. 131 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,400 You're there and all I see... 132 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,560 I'm expecting sand, right? 133 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,520 Just sand that we walk out into. 134 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,040 Everything's rocks and I look out and the first thing that you tell me when I get there 135 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,240 was that you should have been here when they just held the professional surf competition 136 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:20,240 a week ago. 137 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,720 I was like, why are we at a place where there's a professional surf competition even able 138 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:26,720 to happen there? 139 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,040 Why am I here? 140 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,840 My armpit hurts from carrying surfboard just because I've never even done that. 141 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:35,240 We just start walking out. 142 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,840 You're just talking about random stuff and I'm walking out in the water. 143 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,840 Yeah, for sure. 144 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:46,360 But you turn your board over and start using it so your ankle doesn't roll in the water. 145 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,520 So I do that. 146 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,920 I'm just watching you and I'm kind of taking my time and then it starts to get deeper and 147 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:58,320 waves start coming and waves start coming and then I ask you what do I do? 148 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,120 This is the pressing question for me because this is what I don't know what to do. 149 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,120 If I'm in three foot waves in Ocean City, Maryland and I get smashed, I don't know what 150 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,120 to do. 151 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,840 I try to go under it real far but now I got something that flows. 152 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,840 So what do I do if a wave hits me? 153 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,800 You say, you duck dive and I say, what's a duck dive? 154 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:23,920 You halfway explain it and then you said now would be a good time for that. 155 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,680 And all I remember is going upside down and when I came back up, you were much further 156 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:29,680 than I was out. 157 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:30,680 I already knew some of your background. 158 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:31,680 I know you run. 159 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,680 I know you hunt. 160 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,680 So in my defense. 161 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:41,760 None of that involves, you never even asked do you know how to swim? 162 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:42,760 You did ask that. 163 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,760 You asked do you know how to swim? 164 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,360 You know you hunt and you know you run. 165 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,000 None of that has anything to do with what just happened to me. 166 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,000 But it totally did. 167 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,520 I knew you liked me in the challenge and you're out for a good story. 168 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,120 Well then I remember there was a moment. 169 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,680 There was a moment because you had gotten past the break and you're out there with your 170 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:08,680 friends. 171 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,400 You kept checking to make sure I was floating but I had a choice to make. 172 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,520 I was getting smashed and at this point I had cussed out loud twice. 173 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,280 I yelled it. 174 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,440 I was just getting smashed and there was nothing I could do. 175 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:27,960 I either have to go sit on that beach and watch Ryan surf and cry. 176 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,120 There were three options in my head. 177 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,440 I got to do that. 178 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:39,400 I have to stay here and get smashed for an hour while Ryan surfs or I have to get every 179 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,600 ounce of because in my head now I'm like I don't even know how I'm going to get back 180 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:43,600 in once I'm out there. 181 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,800 Once I'm out there I might have to stay. 182 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,960 So I lived every single ounce of what I had. 183 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,360 It took to get past the break and I finally got past the break and I got out there and 184 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:02,360 you looked at me and said I didn't think you were going to get past the break. 185 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,320 I'm just impressed you made it out here. 186 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,320 So anyway. 187 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:20,920 I was saying for the rest of the day who needs enemies when you have friends like Ryan. 188 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Bobby said that and I couldn't even sit up on the board because I was so unstable. 189 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,000 I couldn't sit. 190 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,120 I just had to lay. 191 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,000 My legs were open. 192 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,640 I just had to lay there and then at the end I tried to surf and it didn't work. 193 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:41,520 Getting in ended up being really easy and I was glad to get out of the water. 194 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,560 That was my side of the story. 195 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,320 Welcome to California and I went home and I was like hey this is what we're going to 196 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,040 drive across the country to. 197 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Are you excited? 198 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:56,800 She didn't like you immediately. 199 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,760 Now she likes you though. 200 00:09:58,760 --> 00:09:59,760 But before she didn't. 201 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:05,880 I always find when you go straight on your buddy's wife's blacklist. 202 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,600 Yeah 100% and you did it immediately. 203 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,320 But it was good. 204 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,880 But it is interesting. 205 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:19,000 You correlate that to church planting or starting something new and it always comes down to 206 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:25,160 that moment before you get out of the break when you're doing something new because everything's 207 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,160 unfamiliar. 208 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,880 I've never even been in water like that before. 209 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,040 It was fun. 210 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,320 It's also a little bit of a metaphor. 211 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,320 People want a challenge. 212 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,360 Yeah but it's that three pronged decision. 213 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,720 It's that three pronged decision in that moment of I either have to fully commit and give 214 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,560 this every ounce of me. 215 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:51,000 I have to stay here and keep getting beat up and sulk and whine. 216 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,960 Or I just gotta get out of the water. 217 00:10:53,960 --> 00:11:01,360 It's one of those three options and then enough time doing different things getting past that 218 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,080 break in those different areas you just start getting to the point where it's like well 219 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,560 there's no other choice that I have. 220 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:15,560 I also had the gift of being 48 and knowing that I just naturally gravitate towards wild 221 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,560 overcomer types. 222 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:21,560 Just like to find each other somehow. 223 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:22,560 Yeah. 224 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:26,000 Here we are. 225 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,400 Here we are. 226 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,600 All things have their pros and cons. 227 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:41,600 That's a good asset class if you want to do a more over doing. 228 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:53,400 If you want to do smaller out there disciple making going into places where no one knows 229 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,880 God and no one wants to. 230 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:04,240 That propensity towards being wild and being overcoming is an asset. 231 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,240 Absolutely. 232 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:11,160 You have to own it and you also want to be around the other people that are wired that 233 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:12,160 way. 234 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,160 Yeah. 235 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,160 No you do. 236 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,160 For sure. 237 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,160 Yeah. 238 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,480 So we have some similar backgrounds. 239 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,960 We both worked at larger churches. 240 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,000 Let's talk for a minute about the pros and cons of that. 241 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,360 I'll go first. 242 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:39,600 What I loved about a bigger church it was easy for me to invite people to. 243 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:47,280 It was a secure time for myself and my family as far as somewhere where I was able to work 244 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:55,960 and I didn't have to have the level of responsibility that I feel now. 245 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:01,080 I was able to learn a lot from people that I respect. 246 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,080 I really enjoyed it. 247 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,080 Part of me misses it. 248 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,760 Part of me wants to. 249 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:20,480 I was learning more about water policy and both my large church experiences I found myself 250 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:28,280 gravitating towards the people that work in the mission side in both settings. 251 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,880 I started to connect with places in the world that need water are the same places in the 252 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,840 world that don't have churches. 253 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,520 So obviously God was doing something in my heart. 254 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:52,840 That thesis that I started to develop about water solutions and churches I started to 255 00:13:52,840 --> 00:14:00,360 figure out that the context that I was in would not translate into the nooks and crannies 256 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:01,720 of the world. 257 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:07,840 And so that became a con for me in the sense that this is great. 258 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,840 This is wonderful. 259 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:09,840 I can invite people. 260 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,840 It's a safe place for me and my family. 261 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:29,840 But then the conflict for me became I knew where I thought this thesis smaller more flexible 262 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,160 and solving the water problem. 263 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,040 I couldn't do both. 264 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,720 So that's a little bit of my background. 265 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:46,400 I also learned a lot about how to treat people. 266 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,400 You know you work in ministry. 267 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:58,160 What you if we're out there teaching people about Jesus a first grader would understand. 268 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,160 Love that neighbor. 269 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:07,600 So at the top of the list of things we teach people is how is how we treat others. 270 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:16,960 So I got an education as they say about how to treat people in different situations. 271 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,880 There were things I definitely liked. 272 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,760 There were things I definitely did not like. 273 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:23,760 I was just taking notes. 274 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:24,760 Yeah and just observing. 275 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:31,960 I wasn't on a mission to ironically to teach anyone. 276 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:32,960 Yeah. 277 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:33,960 I was just learning. 278 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:34,960 So you have some similarities. 279 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:45,960 Well for me it was my I didn't grow up in the church. 280 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,880 I don't think you did either. 281 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:55,880 So well yeah so well for me my whole idea of what progress was was like get rich be 282 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,880 happy. 283 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:57,880 That was it. 284 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:05,120 So I got into insurance at like 19 and I was like this is this is the deal. 285 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,680 Insurance is residual income. 286 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,180 I sell you a policy. 287 00:16:08,180 --> 00:16:09,180 You keep it every month. 288 00:16:09,180 --> 00:16:10,180 You keep it. 289 00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:11,180 I keep getting paid every year. 290 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:12,180 You keep it. 291 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:13,180 I keep this perfect. 292 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:14,180 You do enough of that for a while. 293 00:16:14,180 --> 00:16:17,000 You got money just coming in and you buy happiness. 294 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,440 People say money can't buy happiness and I had a mentor that used to tell me yeah but 295 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,120 it's more fun to cry in a Ferrari than on a bicycle. 296 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,800 And I was like well that's a pretty solid argument and I hadn't heard better arguments 297 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,680 so I was like that's what I'm going to do. 298 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:40,640 But what I learned from that experience was like they the bigger problems you solve the 299 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,240 bigger checks you cash. 300 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:47,820 The bigger gaps you fill in the market the more people are willing to pay you. 301 00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:50,640 So always look for gaps. 302 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:58,560 So similar to you like I went to Hillsong College where I met my wife and in Australia 303 00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,840 and I took a year. 304 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,040 I had I've been a Christian for like four or five years started making money finally 305 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,440 started traveling around and speaking but I felt like I wasn't telling people the whole 306 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:08,440 story. 307 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,940 I can tell you how to make money but I'm not giving you the rest of what's actually 308 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:15,800 happened in my life and made the biggest difference and why I care much less about the money than 309 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,760 I used to. 310 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:23,360 And after I came back from Hillsong I got that experience of being immersed there for 311 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:30,600 a year and I came back and worked with New Life in Maryland and they they were unique 312 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:37,680 because they had this like a larger church but they also just had many different variations 313 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,320 of church plants like they had church plants on their campus. 314 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,440 They're doing house church stuff. 315 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,800 They have so I they have campuses so I planted a campus with them and with that experience 316 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,840 it was the same thing. 317 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:56,160 I'm looking for I'm understanding this is how God created me and I'm looking for gaps 318 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,640 because not like if we're a body not every church can fill every gap. 319 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:02,640 It's impossible. 320 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,640 You can't do it all. 321 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,080 It takes all makes and models. 322 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,920 Yeah absolutely and that's where that's actually historically where I think people have gone 323 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:17,360 wrong with the house church big church situation because without the larger churches the things 324 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,800 that you can support there are people we say it all the time but all those people never 325 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:21,960 walk into a church building. 326 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,200 Yeah but there's other people that would never walk into your living room. 327 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,320 You know what I mean like they're never going to show up in your living room. 328 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,140 The bigger churches they they bring vision they bring resources they bring all these 329 00:18:33,140 --> 00:18:37,960 different things they bring like you said a place to invite they bring teaching they 330 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:43,200 bring events they like I'm new in this area we haven't been here. 331 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,080 We got to go to church right down the street because they brought 70 tons of snow in and 332 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,080 got Olivia had a blast. 333 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,080 We had a great time. 334 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:57,520 I don't miss putting on events like that. 335 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:03,480 So that for me I was looking for those different gaps while I was there just because naturally 336 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,440 it was like that was what my brain was trained. 337 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:16,520 My sister and my brother in law my parents some people my family still go to Saddleback 338 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,800 church that I used to work at and it's wonderful. 339 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,720 It's been a massive blessing to their family. 340 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:34,560 What's interesting to me is in some circles it's it's common to have either or thinking. 341 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:43,040 Yeah exactly one one approach or one group of people is like the more noble enlightened. 342 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,640 We do house church and we don't take salaries so we're better than you. 343 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:53,440 Yes our ways the way actually Jesus is the way it turns out there's all this other stuff 344 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,440 that's out there. 345 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,440 Exactly. 346 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:04,680 It's like just about life at the same time at the same time there's a there's a segment 347 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:15,480 of people who are built to go into the nooks and crannies to take on that need large large 348 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:23,760 fame which isn't to say other people doing absolutely an approach different isn't large 349 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,960 thing but when you're thinking of some of these nooks and crannies different parts of 350 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:39,360 the world you know you and you feel a tug towards that and also as you read you know 351 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:46,240 church history you know you'll see wow this is how the gospel spread across the United 352 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,240 States. 353 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,080 This is you can look at other countries take the United States out there you start to look 354 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,120 at how you know Jesus got out of the world. 355 00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:02,360 It was mostly small ball you know passionate small ball you know guys just trying to teach 356 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:11,240 one dude over here going over here and it was messy and so that can be very encouraging. 357 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,240 Yeah. 358 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:21,440 So yeah so we both had opportunities in our life to to have those experiences to totally 359 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:30,480 a lot from then and yet here we are we're friends and our paths have crossed and when 360 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:31,480 did we meet? 361 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,880 We I don't know you like virtually about two years ago. 362 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,160 Yep you were always on your bicycle on the zoom call. 363 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,440 I remember that. 364 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,440 Yep. 365 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Their first your first thing every zoom call was like sorry I'm on my bike can you hear 366 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,200 me that's how you started every zoom call. 367 00:21:51,200 --> 00:22:03,680 When I was when I first started Ocean Water yeah we're in my garage talking I was super 368 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,320 stressed out don't know what I'm doing I'm pacing back and forth hours a day. 369 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:10,320 Talking to God. 370 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:23,800 Get out on my bike to pray and clear my head just basically trying to be healthy for myself 371 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:30,600 and you know try to keep for some call going not no pun intended. 372 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:37,120 Yeah and yeah so I did I do ride my bike and surf but that is how we met and I met you 373 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:49,040 I met I met Dwight yeah I met David Jury I met Phil Tay yeah and some other guys yeah 374 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:55,200 and we were on that call for about a year yeah and that was great for me because I was 375 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:04,080 coming out of my you know larger experience and I really I didn't hey I didn't want to 376 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:11,520 be doing this by myself yeah but B I didn't really want to be terribly responsible so 377 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:19,200 I was just like super more people great yeah yeah I was a really cool so yeah we we met 378 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:28,120 there for like yeah we yeah we did that for like a year and then we had talked some and 379 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,840 you told me you're like well because I had told you at the time I think toward the end 380 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:38,000 of that call I felt like God had told us to sell the house go debt-free buy a fifth wheel 381 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,360 renovate it well he didn't I didn't hear all that I heard buy a fifth wheel we found one 382 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,520 that if we wanted to go debt-free we had to find one and renovate it and that's and we 383 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:54,440 did and that was like I would talk to you about that periodically and your response 384 00:23:54,440 --> 00:24:00,800 is always like don't bring that thing to California that was every when we talked it was always 385 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:07,680 that well if you fast forward we renovated the RV right halfway through renovation you 386 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,760 know this story I'm halfway through renovation we sold everything and I get a text message 387 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,640 a call find out that my my brother was shot and killed his wife was shot and killed my 388 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:24,760 nephew was shot for like this it was just this crazy chaotic time in life and then we 389 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,240 finished the renovations and then coming into the next year like now we don't know what 390 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,920 we're supposed to what we're doing with it we had this idea like we had a plan but we 391 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:41,360 kind of it's like God said go do this and then we made up a pretty piss poor plan just 392 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:47,600 so that I felt like justified in what I was doing like I needed to have something but 393 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,560 once we were finished I'm like that's not what I'm supposed to be doing with this right 394 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,560 now 395 00:24:52,560 --> 00:25:08,560 yeah jacked up line broken in certain spots and then I go on a 40-day fast not like no 396 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,400 food 40-day fast cutting out certain things 40 days and as we're going through this fast 397 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:21,400 I'm 20 days in and you called me and said what are you doing with that RV and like stuff 398 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,080 was just getting kind of crazy with that fast. If you fast for a long period of time and you're 399 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,720 just you're praying and focused, it's just amazing. Like the sensitivity to God is incredible. 400 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:35,240 Well the fact that I would call someone on a fast when I never fast. 401 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,280 That's perfect. It was day 20. 402 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,120 If you want to learn about fasting, Curtis has a lot more experience. 403 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,200 Yeah, but it was literally day 20. 404 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:55,880 I will say again, pros and cons. I've gone through this period of my life 405 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,880 pretty clear to me that I need to go do this. 406 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,800 Cons are totally stressed out, terrified. I don't use the word terrified. 407 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:17,240 And one of the pros is praying a lot. 408 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:19,640 You don't have any other choice. 409 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,760 Through that experience, I would say I've gotten better about 410 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:37,800 sensing certain things. Yeah, you just popped in my head and I was like, 411 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:44,440 oh man, I wonder if you want to come out and spend some time here as preparation for what 412 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:52,360 was in your heart, which is the Oasis Project. Yeah, talk a little about that. Talk a little bit 413 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:59,000 about that call that you feel how it relates to honoring your family. 414 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:06,360 Matilda and Mission, Sweden and all of that. 415 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:11,800 So for me, it was always like since it was strange to me when I was making no money 416 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,360 in marketing and insurance, I had certain people that were making a lot of money. 417 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:20,360 They were like where I wanted to be financially. They were traveling, they were speaking, 418 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:27,080 they had the life. But after I got saved, those people were coming to me for spiritual counsel. 419 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,960 And I always thought that was interesting. I thought it was crazy then. 420 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:39,160 But what I realized now is God has kept me in that world for a reason, with some sense of influence 421 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:47,560 with this group of people for a reason. And I didn't know why at the time. But when Matilda and 422 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:56,360 I met, I was not planning on working at a church ever or planting a church ever. I was planning on 423 00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:01,160 making a bunch of money and giving it to the church and doing cool stuff. That was my plan. 424 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,400 We came here for the first season of our marriage. She's from Sweden. And we knew, 425 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,080 it was like eventually, the plan is we build something here, we get some things established, 426 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,840 she gets her citizenship, and then I'll go get my citizenship in Sweden. But also, when you go there, 427 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:28,040 there's these beautiful stone churches everywhere, in just about every town. And they're 428 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,680 unoccupied. That land is being sold off by the government now. And then I started, 429 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,000 I preached when I was there. So I started studying their church history, and it was rich, 430 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,160 and it was amazing. But as soon as it got mandated, it just sucked the life out of it. 431 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,160 When it became just the state's thing, it just sucked the life out of it. So we've always had 432 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,440 this dream of doing church in Sweden, occupying those buildings and purchasing that land back. 433 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,960 But then, you know, through planting the church and doing the things that we did in Maryland, 434 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,520 during that fast that when you called me, I was taking a step back, we were about to do five 435 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,840 weeks in Sweden at the end of that fast. And I was going to do five weeks in Sweden and take a full 436 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:18,120 step back and just look at what would we do if I just had scripture, my family, the people that 437 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,240 I know, like what's in my hand, what would I do? And that was my goal was to finish this fast, 438 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,520 go to Sweden, pray about that, plan that, and then come back and try to do it. So while we were there, 439 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,400 I start looking at the different business contacts that we have, people that want to serve, people 440 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,320 that want to give money to the church, people that... And then I found out how you partnered 441 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:44,040 with Sir Coffee and using their space and you guys work together like that. And so I started 442 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:51,000 kind of building out this plan for what it looks like for the start. I met Ralph Moore and he did 443 00:29:51,000 --> 00:30:00,360 this study on business people in the church with Paul, Priscilla and Aquila, and I started studying 444 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,000 what that looked like. Like what did that church actually look like where the business was partnered 445 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:11,080 with? They provided opportunity for people like Paul to build tents, not just to give him money, 446 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,240 but also to build tents so that he could make money. They provided income. They provided... 447 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,160 Why isn't the bit we've done this weird thing, I think now, maybe unintentionally, but it's like 448 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,840 if you're a pastor, you're here in ministry, and if you're a business owner, we want your money, 449 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:31,160 but you're your second string. And that's not what we say. But for a business owner, 450 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,160 it's what gets communicated. It becomes a part of the culture. 451 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:43,400 Yeah. Yeah. And I was trying to... I met Ralph at a good time because 452 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:52,600 it was as I was transitioning to what I'm doing now. And meeting him really gave me... 453 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,200 He helped give me a framework for what I was feeling. And what I was feeling was, I remember 454 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:08,680 it was... I'm in 2018. We had just had our largest Easter attendance at Saddleback. It was 90 455 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:20,360 plus thousand people in 80 services, just typical Rick Warren stuff that's never been done. 456 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:40,040 Yeah. And I remember I would sit in the meetings for our campus. And it was $1.2 million was the 457 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:50,840 model to basically launch a successful campus for three or four hundred people. And I remember 458 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:58,040 thinking, that's awesome. We figured out what this costs, how to do it right, how to be successful 459 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,080 at it, how to standardize it, how to put the systems in place. That's wonderful. And then I had a 460 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:12,760 question at Honda View. And the question was, what if you don't have $1.2 million? And sometimes you 461 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:19,400 hate questions that pop into your own brain. You're like, why did that disruptive thought have to 462 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:31,240 get into my consciousness? And so much so that I started to rethink, by the way, if you have that 463 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:38,040 amount of capital and you have like a team and the people, I think that's amazing. There is 464 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:50,520 literally 1.2 million worse ways to spend $1.2 million. I think you can agree on that. So it was 465 00:32:50,520 --> 00:33:04,760 wonderful. But I started to wrestle with that. And it turns out that I can look back now and God's 466 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:15,320 really used my friendship with Mark Bell and Adam Watts, who own Sir Coffee, where I go every day. 467 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:28,040 And Mark has a bit of a ministry background. And then Adam is my favorite type of Jesus person. 468 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:40,680 He's sincere. He's got like probably two or three world-class talents. He strangles people for fun. 469 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:47,960 Yeah, he's humble. So he's this really wonderful mix, like the type of human being you want to 470 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:54,360 just be around. He's just a very fun, sincere, capable, gifted guy. So I've been friends with 471 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,320 Mark for 20 years. And I've been very good friends with Adam. He's one of my best friends for about 472 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:05,960 five years now. So through those relationships, we ended up being able to have our church to coffee 473 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:17,000 shop, which has been interesting because this idea of having just a few people to 40 people 474 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:27,640 in a cultural context, it just makes sense to people, whether you're in San Clemente or Sweden, 475 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,760 having coffee in a great place with people is understandable and a great place to connect. 476 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:44,280 Yeah. And so it's been really fun. And of course now we're talking about praying about 477 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,520 maybe what that might look like because you've been involved with that. Talk a little bit about 478 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:57,880 what's on your heart for Sweden, why we feel that synergy you and I have. 479 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:08,360 Yeah. Well, for Sweden, one, a challenge is a good thing. And ministry anywhere in the world 480 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:17,240 right now is first or a challenge. When I was in Sweden, there's this like, here in the States, 481 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:23,800 we're like, in my opinion, we're like 50 years behind them into where we're going. Like they hit 482 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:31,560 kind of a progressive church is a joke or I'm like, I'm in thing a while ago. 483 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:40,200 They are now at a place of like indifference. Like it's not even a thought. It's just like, 484 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:45,240 nah, that's not even an option to where if like things are going bad, it's not necessarily like, 485 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:48,040 ah, maybe I should go back to church. It's like they're past that now. 486 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:55,960 But their life is built around a table. They care about mission and serving people. They don't want 487 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,920 to start it, but they'll they like other people to do it. Well, they'll support it or at least 488 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,080 they'll hold up a sign saying good job in a courtyard. They'll at least do that. 489 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,080 It's the lowest form of support. It's a sign. 490 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:14,440 The worst form of support. But I actually found out in certain places, like in Switzerland, for 491 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:20,840 example, most of the mission is actually started from the government. Like you don't go start your 492 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:26,360 own thing. If you want to do something, you just go, which sucks the life and ingenuity out of 493 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,760 somebody to go start their own thing and find gaps and fill it. So anyway, but there was a scripture 494 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,600 that came to mind as, as I was in Sweden when we were praying through what this next step in 495 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:42,440 ministry could be for my family and I. And the scripture that came up was in the Bible. 496 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:49,080 The scripture that came up was in Jeremiah 29, which Matilda and I read this morning actually. 497 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:59,560 And it was Jeremiah writing to the exiles in Babylon. And he said, work for like he was telling 498 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,840 them, like, look, don't just go exist while you're there and don't sit there and wine. Don't complain. 499 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:10,360 Don't just sit there and wait for the day that you're going to leave. Go there and like have kids 500 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:17,160 and start gardens. Like he said, work for the peace and the prosperity into the city in which 501 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:24,120 I've called you into exile, placed you in exile, however he said it. And I was like, that's what, 502 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,160 that's what I want to be able to do is help work for the peace and the prosperity, but not prosperity 503 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,880 as I'm sitting on a stage telling people like, Hey, give me money and you'll be prosperous. But 504 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:40,440 meaning like, no, add value to their economy, like add value, find gaps in their economy and add value 505 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:48,920 to it and give those business owners access to work with high level leaders that have character 506 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,080 that are attached to mission, that are attached to church, that are attached to like, let's, 507 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,120 let's put those two things together. And I saw you and Mark and Adam doing that well. 508 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:04,120 Um, so that really got me interested in what's happening. Yeah, that was what was happening. 509 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,120 And I didn't realize it. 510 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:16,440 No, no. Yeah. So now we're putting together this, this network of people and it looks like Matilda 511 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,360 and I within, I don't know, probably the next year we'll be living in Sweden. If everything goes to 512 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:26,440 our plan, which typically it doesn't, but maybe it will. And, um, we'll be, I have a business here 513 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:32,200 that I'll keep running to fund our life. Um, so hopefully that'll grow and we'll continue to be 514 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:37,320 able to do that. But when we go there, like we're starting a house church and we're, we want to grow 515 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:45,400 it. And right there, like if you can in where my, the town where my wife's live, the town in which 516 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,400 my wife is from, where my wife is from their coffee sucks. It's not good. It can be way better. 517 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:57,960 It's not as good as, as sir coffee, but they also like a coffee shop there with people meeting, 518 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:06,120 doing a Bible study in it that had solar panels on the roof and they're like, people would be all 519 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,160 over it. So just that, that different way of thinking, going and planting a church there right 520 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:17,640 now, unless you're a name that people know, you're not going to be, you're not getting people to come 521 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,040 to the church. You're not passing out flyers and like people, people go, they have a big Christmas 522 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,920 event every year with my, my wife's old church there and people flood to it that aren't Christian. 523 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,160 They love the Christmas event. They never come back, but the Christmas event's cool. And that's 524 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,760 a good thing, but those people aren't coming back ever. And they're not interested. They just like 525 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:42,760 taking their kids and their family to a cool event. That's well done. But if you can go into a place 526 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:48,360 like that at value of the economy, you gain that respect. And if there's mission, now you start 527 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:55,800 poking at the heartstrings. Now we can have a productive conversation around Jesus because as 528 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,280 I've talked to these people, you start to find out and people anywhere, but as I've gotten to know a 529 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:06,920 lot of people there, it doesn't matter. People are just as lost and broken everywhere. No matter what 530 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,840 things look like, no matter if they feel like they're comfortable or they're living in a 531 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,120 hut or it doesn't matter. So, yeah. 532 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:28,360 So we both feel called to make the cycles of seeing the church multiplied, seeing the cycles of 533 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:39,400 churching. One of my breakthrough kind of aha moments in the church is the 534 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:46,440 in my 40s was when I was when I connected, I was like, wow, there's actually a correlation between 535 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:54,520 the cost of something and its ability to scale. And so like that back to the cost conversation, 536 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,960 if you have millions of dollars, that's wonderful. Like let's spend it the best way possible. 537 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:09,080 But, you know, when you go to reproduce yourself, you do it with the budget that you have. 538 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,960 People usually try to reproduce the budget that they have. So one of my aha moment was, wait a 539 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:28,840 second. So it costs, you know, $1.2 million to do it this way. What if we could figure out a way to 540 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:39,640 make disciples in plant churches just for the cost of food? Well, it turns out that you can scale 541 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:48,760 that way. And that you actually can, anybody can make a disciple, really anyone can start a group 542 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:54,680 of disciples in any place. We lean in towards, which this is something we work here, we lean into 543 00:41:54,680 --> 00:42:06,360 backyards and beaches and coffee shops and jujitsu studios and breweries and homes. That's a good 544 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:14,840 lane for us to run in. And, you know, those are all no cost. You know, we discovered that at Sir, 545 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,040 actually, they actually get a tax credit for letting us know what you're in there. They won't 546 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:29,400 get that in Sweden. So that's been fun to discover. Yeah. Because it does give you a lot of hope 547 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:37,160 about, wow, you mean we can still make disciples and still plant churches. And it's about 548 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:49,320 responsibility. Yeah, it's about responsibility. I can, when I was in insurance, I would go to 549 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:55,080 an event, I'd drive an hour every week to go to this sales event. And I would bring potential 550 00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,120 clients or I would bring people that I wanted to recruit. And every week I would go, but no 551 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,680 matter what, all I had to do was show up. Some weeks, I'd bring people, some weeks, I'd go by 552 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,960 myself. I made more money if I brought people. I recruited more, sold more if I brought people. 553 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,800 But there was a shift that happened. After like a year, one of my friends looked at me and said, 554 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:21,880 hey, why don't you put on one of these events near you? Ran out the hotel space 555 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:30,680 and put on one of these events. Everything shifted. Everything. Because now that other event, 556 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,320 all I had to do was drive. I didn't have to think about it until I was there. And then I just did 557 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,120 it. Because everybody else did everything else. Sure, I could show up. I helped with chairs or 558 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,960 I could help with the table or I could greet people. It's the same situation. But as soon as 559 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,280 I had the responsibility of doing it on my own, I had to fill that room up. If I didn't fill the 560 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:56,200 room up, nobody else was going to. I'm just banging out phone calls. I'm the one on the phone with the 561 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:02,040 hotel trying to figure stuff out. I'm the one now getting creative with businesses in the area. 562 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:09,640 It turned something on in me that I didn't know was there. Like it flipped the switch because now 563 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:16,680 I have responsibility for it. That's what happens. I've found when somebody gets responsibility for 564 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:23,640 now, the church that's in their home and even just flipping the idea from small group to house church 565 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:30,600 of, yeah, I'm doing this for them and I'm just kind of showing up. But you fill it with your small 566 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:37,960 group, like event that you do rather than this is something that God has called me to do. These are 567 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,560 the people that I'm going to be better and I'm going to seek God more for these people. I'm going 568 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:48,200 to become more so that these people have an example to follow so that I can love them better. 569 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,840 Something different happens. That, when you're talking about scaling, that's what I want to see 570 00:44:52,840 --> 00:45:01,960 reproduced. Now let's park it right there for just a second because I have, as you do, two prior 571 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:13,080 experiences. I have a reference point. The reason why with Ocean Water, what I teach now is really 572 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:23,320 clarifying why we encourage churches to have a few to 40 people. Well, there's some reasons for it 573 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:32,760 based on experience. When you have a few to 40, the leadership is not intimidating. 574 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:40,600 Pretty much anybody can do it and that's great because you always want what you're teaching 575 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:46,840 to be something that people feel like they can do versus what you're teaching is here 576 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:55,400 and they're here and they're just like, I can never do that. So that's nice when that's your scoreboard, 577 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:03,560 a few to 40. The other thing is I can pull from experience and something switches at about 40 578 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:14,280 where it goes from real ownership to consumerism in this weird way. It's just been an observation 579 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,400 in mind. It's not something I've talked about, but it's something I've thought a lot about. 580 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:29,000 Right about there is when people start saying it goes to more of a service-oriented relationship. 581 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:37,960 I think so. That's just been an observation. That's not hard and fast in all cases, 582 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:48,200 but just a general observation has been that. It's been a lot more fun for me to encourage, 583 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:58,040 let's just keep it there and then try to find the next person who has that spark and build them up 584 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:04,840 and develop the thoughts on that. One of the things that I learned when we planted the church, 585 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:12,040 I had a guy who was the worship leader at the time that was amazing voice, good leader, played 586 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,720 guitar, knew some other instrument. It was just like top-notch leader. Well, he was going to one 587 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:26,440 of our other campuses and I was like, man, that sucks. But what happened was as soon as he left, 588 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:32,360 these other people and one in particular stepped up and I'm like, I had no idea you could do that. 589 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:38,920 I mean, like, yeah, because you didn't need me to before. So what was the point of me doing it? 590 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,560 And then that started translating that I would stand up on stage and talk. They didn't need 591 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,680 to learn how to share the gospel and share their testimony and go get their testimony 592 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,920 because I was sharing it. So it was great because they could invite people, 593 00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:01,560 but I was also making an excuse for them why they didn't have to share the gospel, why they 594 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:07,080 didn't have to grow deeper because they felt fantastic after they left. And that was it. 595 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:15,560 And for me, that was heartbreaking for me. And you can't fix it all. There's no solution that's 596 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,280 just going to solve all those problems. But for me, that ended up being a gap that I saw. 597 00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,640 That was one of the reasons I got excited about coming to California was when I flew out here for 598 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:34,200 that event and you almost drowned me. I was like, that's my style. Maybe there could have been a 599 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:42,120 little more instruction on the front end, but it's like, I would rather have that situation than 600 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,840 we sat on the beach for four days and you just talked to me about surfing. 601 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:55,000 Yeah. That's a different situation. And people learn and they don't know when people aren't 602 00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,120 forced to do things that are out of their comfort zone, they never know what they actually have. 603 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:07,400 And if you don't know that you have what it takes when the moment comes, then you'll cower. 604 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,720 Maybe you'll buck up and try to fight through it, but a big part of it a lot of times is never skill. 605 00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:19,880 It's literally just the, I've been here before, I've been in hard stuff, so I know all I have to 606 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:26,920 do is keep pushing. Yes. And sometimes like your focus way, sometimes when you're just 607 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:35,880 wild and you want to try stuff, at some point you should just quit apologizing. 608 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:44,280 Yeah. And quit. If that's how you're built, then do it. If you're wild and unorthodox and 609 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:51,080 you just want to go try stuff, that's not sinful. And it's great because those people... 610 00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,840 But in that group of people is the group that you're looking for with something like this. 611 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:08,200 When we talk about the gaps, that's ultimately what you're looking for. I'm not looking for 612 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:14,280 everybody in this. It's not like everybody has to convert and do things the way that you're doing 613 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,920 it the way that I'm doing it. That's not the point. The point is there's a bunch of psychopaths out 614 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:25,160 there that would be willing to jump on a surfboard and get flipped over. But a lot of those people 615 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:32,360 are sitting dormant. That's the thing that makes me... I want to go find those people and just give 616 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,440 them permission to go screw stuff up and figure it out. And as they do that, amazing thing because 617 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:45,880 for me, go back to when you study church history, studying church history, it's messy. And I would 618 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,760 rather have structure around it all to where it's not messy, but people are always going to be messy. 619 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,480 But I've gotten to the point where I'm okay with more mess than I've ever been okay with. 620 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:04,040 You and I have big is messy, not big is messy. 621 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:04,760 Pick your headache. 622 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,560 Yeah, that was a great conversation. Pick your headache. It's the end of the day. 623 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:20,600 You want to get up and be enthusiastic in a reasonable manner. Life is endless as it 624 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:25,000 is, not every day is perfect. That's part of the experience. But for the most part, 625 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,680 you want to get up and you want to be stoked about what you feel like you're supposed to do, 626 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:37,160 the difference that you're making, the way that you're doing it that's a good fit for you so you 627 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:43,080 don't feel like you have somebody else's armor on. All of these things, that it's a blessing to your 628 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:49,880 family, that your family's becoming more Christ-like. And you want to feel all of that. 629 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:57,880 And it's really liberating when you get a framework to understand that either way is great. 630 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:09,720 The way is great. Just find a lane and find a way to do it. There are so many people out there 631 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:19,800 that need to feel like God can use them and are going to find hope in this. You just have to be 632 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:26,280 willing. I always teach people, start with one person that you want to try to teach about God. 633 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:36,520 And it's you and that one other person, God's stoked. It's that simple. It's fun when you think 634 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:45,160 about how might God use some courageous people in California or this other place or anywhere 635 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:53,160 anyone's listening to this. God's just looking for some courage. Take a step and He goes with us. 636 00:52:53,160 --> 00:53:05,320 It's my favorite verse. Joshua 1.9. Do not be discouraged. Do not be dismayed. For the Lord, 637 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:13,160 your God will feed with you everywhere you go. And so it's a cool thing when that starts to 638 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:25,720 settle in. This has been fun. We hung out the other day, me and you and Brian and chatted for 639 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:32,120 five hours. You know you can vibe with someone when you can chat and hang out for five hours and it 640 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:39,720 feels like an hour. I look forward to doing more of this stuff in the future, more conversations 641 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:50,200 with you. It's been fun for me too because I spent a lot of my life, my heart's always been for 642 00:53:53,080 --> 00:54:01,240 youth ministry events and that's what I love. If I'm 48, you're 32, we get along great, we're good 643 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:08,440 friends. Our challenge now is getting how we feel down to someone coming out of high school. 644 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:14,520 We don't have to have these conversations in 10 years. That would feel like progress. 645 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:21,400 It would feel like progress to me if when I get together with you and Dwight and a bunch of these 646 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:27,480 other guys and this just becomes normal for somebody coming out of high school and in college to 647 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:33,800 like want to teach people about God and solve real problems like water, food, and housing. It's like 648 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:41,960 really really fun. It's like invigorating to try to get there. We've said a lot, we can say a lot 649 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:48,520 more, but do you have any like this is like a pretty good first swing like a conversation you want to 650 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:56,040 leave everybody with today? No man this is just, I'm excited to see the more I've been out here 651 00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:05,160 seeing you with your family, seeing you in the way that you value friendship and transparency 652 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:13,160 and integrity has been cool and it's been well worth the trip out here. So yeah thanks man, 653 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:29,160 I'm just excited. Good to be your friend. Love you man. Love you. All right thanks for joining us. Till next time.