1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,080 All right, welcome to the Ocean Water Podcast, the voice for Indigenous water rights. 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,240 Today I have with me, Kurt Johnston. 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,240 He has been- 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:16,240 Hello, man. 5 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:17,240 Yeah. 6 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:18,240 How you doing, Kurt? 7 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:24,360 Kurt has been a leader and a pastor for three decades plus. 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,400 He's been a pastor and a leader at Saddleback Church for 23 years. 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Kurt has written 20 plus books. 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,720 That's on a professional note. 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,200 Pastor Rick seems to think that Kurt's quite a guy. 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:51,000 Kurt is the next gen pastor and he oversees all things, birth through college, and all 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,920 the campuses for Saddleback. 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:01:00,080 And then on a personal note, Kurt is someone that I met when I was 16 years old and someone 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,120 who just picked me up and took me surfing in his Volkswagen van. 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,440 So that's the context of how Kurt and I met. 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,680 And we've been friends since then and still surf and still drink coffee and still get 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,760 burritos more often than you would think. 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:16,760 Yes. 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,960 And you know the old saying, the student has become the teacher. 21 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:22,520 That's how it is with surfing with you and I. 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,640 I think when we met, I might have been better than you, but you've gotten better since you 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,640 were 16 and I haven't. 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:30,640 Thanks. 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:38,600 Well, we still enjoy surfing and coffee and really the lifestyle that we have hasn't changed 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,200 a whole lot, but our roles have. 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:50,600 So for people to get to know you a little bit today, start out with what is your favorite 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,760 food at your hometown restaurant? 29 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,160 Oh gosh. 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,160 Okay. 31 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,080 Our hometown restaurant is Baja Fish Tacos. 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,280 It's a very small chain. 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,400 I think there's probably five of them in Southern Orange County. 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:13,840 But my favorite go-to is basically like a burrito bowl with, I need not half and half, 35 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,400 I need a portion of each. 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,360 So it's steak and chicken. 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,240 But not 50-50, one of each. 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,480 So double the meat, but half of it's steak, half of it's chicken with lots of guacamole. 39 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,480 That's awesome. 40 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,720 I haven't had anything to eat it today, so that sounds incredible. 41 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:32,720 That's awesome. 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,120 And you forgot to leave, and I know you like iced tea, man. 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,520 You forgot to leave the iced tea out. 44 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,240 I am an iced tea guy. 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,840 Sweet tea is probably my biggest vice in life. 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:54,000 But I have laid off sweet tea mostly for about the last year and a half. 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,800 So on every birthday in our family, in our immediate family, on every birthday, I'll 48 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,680 cheat and eat unhealthy. 49 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:10,280 And yesterday we celebrated my son's 23rd birthday, and my cheat was to get a half sweet 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,000 tea, half unsweet tea. 51 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,240 So I was going crazy yesterday. 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,240 You're off the rails, man. 53 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,240 You're getting wild. 54 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,240 Off the rails. 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,240 Off the rails. 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,240 All right. 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,640 So what are you doing these days, and how did you get into it? 58 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,240 How did I get where? 59 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,160 How did you get into it? 60 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:35,480 What are you doing these days, and how did you get into it? 61 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:43,720 Well I think like a lot of people in any chosen career, if you stay in it long enough, which 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,720 is interesting. 63 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,520 It's a little bit of a generational thing, right guys? 64 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:53,120 My age and older, probably even your age and older maybe, had a little bit more of a tendency 65 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:59,480 to pick a career, maybe even pick a company or an organization and stay with it for the 66 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,060 long haul. 67 00:04:02,060 --> 00:04:05,360 These days that's less likely. 68 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,280 Just the way things, the way industry has changed and the way making a living has changed, 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,800 less and less people stay in one place for a long period of time. 70 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:20,720 Like a lot of people who would be in one quote unquote industry for a long time, I've been 71 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:28,960 in youth ministry since 1988, and I've been at my church since 1997 at Saddleback. 72 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:36,200 And so if you're decent at what you do and you stay in one place long enough, chances 73 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,560 are your role is going to morph and change a little bit over time. 74 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,880 And that's been the case for me. 75 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,200 I came to Saddleback as a junior high pastor, then I became the student ministry's pastor, 76 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,240 then we started launching campuses. 77 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:55,280 So I became the central support or the global youth pastor for the different campuses. 78 00:04:55,280 --> 00:05:01,160 And now we've got 18 campuses, four of them are international in Hong Kong and Berlin 79 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,840 and Manila and Buenos Aires, plus 14 in Southern California. 80 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:13,000 And then I started, I was asked to add the children's ministry kind of under my leadership 81 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,880 portfolio. 82 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,280 So that's kind of what I do currently. 83 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:22,040 And then just recently I've been asked to sort of help us think through and support 84 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,000 the teams that lead our multi-site strategies. 85 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,260 So that's kind of a new area that I'm thinking about and working on. 86 00:05:30,260 --> 00:05:36,800 So I'm a little bit of a jack of all trades at Saddleback, but I would say I spend a lot 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,720 of my time focusing really on kids and youth ministry. 88 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,600 Well, typical Kurt fashion that's really understated. 89 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,400 One of the things that I appreciate about you and look up to you, I know I speak for myself 90 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:57,440 and all my close friends is your loyalty, your humility, your hard work. 91 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,480 And what people don't know about you is how smart you are. 92 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:06,760 You sort of hide behind your smile and your surfing, but behind all that's this super 93 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,560 super, super, super smart guy. 94 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,960 And you always have led the team. 95 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,360 So that's sort of a back, that's sort of a backhanded compliment. 96 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,560 People have no idea that you're smart, Kurt. 97 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,560 That's the genius of it. 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,960 You're a little bit that way. 99 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,960 You're a little bit that way. 100 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,100 Well and I resonated with when you interviewed Drew Tevez and you guys were talking about 101 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:39,880 our generation, you didn't tell people if you were smart or what. 102 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:40,880 I mean, that's me. 103 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:49,840 I grew up super poor and in a super humble family and there just wasn't room for bragging 104 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,760 and self-promotion or anything. 105 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,840 I don't know if there wasn't room as much as it just didn't even exist back then. 106 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:03,240 And our family, when you're dirt poor, you don't have much to brag about, right? 107 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:10,040 So kind of talking about yourself wasn't something that I grew up with. 108 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,040 Yeah. 109 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:18,880 Well, that's something that we've all had to learn and process and get around and then 110 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,960 also kind of like step back into this space now where how do you have a voice because 111 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,280 you want to pass on some of the lessons from the school of hard knocks and all the things 112 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,480 that you've learned over the years? 113 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:37,240 How do you then find a voice not because you're trying to promote yourself but because you 114 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,600 really care about passing along some of the stuff that you've learned and also helping 115 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,680 people that are half our age think clearly about different things. 116 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,760 So we're all trying to figure that out. 117 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,540 Well here's my thoughts on that. 118 00:07:54,540 --> 00:07:58,880 Because I've written quite a bit, I often get people asking me, hey, how do you write 119 00:07:58,880 --> 00:07:59,880 a book? 120 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,880 I want to write a book. 121 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,320 How do I write a book? 122 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,120 So I think my advice for writing a book might be the same for somebody who wants to have 123 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:12,840 a voice, whether it's podcast or I just want to have more influence. 124 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,960 But what I'll typically say is I think there's three things to having influence or to writing 125 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:24,000 a book would be, do you have something to say? 126 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,000 Do you have something to say? 127 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,000 Do you have a compelling message? 128 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,800 Do you have a compelling story? 129 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,200 Are you the one to say it? 130 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,200 Right? 131 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,000 And then the third one kind of follows up on whether or not you're the one to say it 132 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,520 is do people want to hear it from you? 133 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,260 So do you have something to say? 134 00:08:46,260 --> 00:08:47,480 Are you the one to say it? 135 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,600 And do people want to hear it from you? 136 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,200 And all of those I think have to work together. 137 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,720 And I'm not sure if there's a magic formula. 138 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,080 But a lot of that, do you have something to say? 139 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,080 Are you the one to say it? 140 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,080 And do people want to hear it from you? 141 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:08,000 A lot of it comes from longevity and just being faithful in what you're doing and what 142 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,360 you're called to do because the longer you're in it, the more likely you already have something 143 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,840 really good to say. 144 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,800 You've got experience, you've got wisdom, you've got insight. 145 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,000 You're the one to say it because you've been doing it for a long time. 146 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,240 And then oftentimes, people will want to hear it from you because you've got something to 147 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,120 say and you're the one to say it. 148 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:36,000 The only thing that messes up, I think, whether people want to hear it from you is your posture. 149 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,360 Are you coming from a place of humility versus pride? 150 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,000 Are you a know-it-all? 151 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Are you a self-promoter? 152 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,000 All that kind of stuff. 153 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:51,680 That can hurt whether or not people want to hear what you have to say. 154 00:09:51,680 --> 00:10:01,120 Well, what do you wish to help with people understand the value of learning on the job? 155 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,520 What do you wish that you had known when you started out? 156 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,920 Oh, gosh. 157 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:19,080 I think I wish I would have known when I started out that so much, for my job, it's ministry, 158 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,080 right? 159 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,480 It's local church ministry. 160 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,800 That's all I've ever done since I was 22. 161 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,200 I wish I would have known that so much of what we think matters in ministry doesn't 162 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:36,360 matter and so much of the stuff that we undervalue is the stuff that matters the most. 163 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,520 I wish I would have known that. 164 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,760 So being a really good speaker doesn't matter as much as I thought it did. 165 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,440 Having the biggest youth group in town doesn't matter as much as I thought it did. 166 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,520 Having a really cool room to meet in doesn't matter as much as I thought it did. 167 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,640 What matters is the stuff that isn't sexy, but it's the stuff that changes lives, right? 168 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,080 It's being there for people. 169 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:03,240 It's showing up when a kid's having their tonsils out in the hospital. 170 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,960 It's making the phone call to the dad who just lost his job and just saying, what can 171 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,360 the church do for you? 172 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:19,560 It's the nitty gritty ministry matters way more than I thought it did when I first got 173 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:20,560 into it. 174 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:27,640 What's interesting is as culture has shifted and as the rise of more mega churches and 175 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:34,440 social media and blogging and podcasting and all that, if we're not careful, it's really 176 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,760 easy to think that's all the stuff that matters. 177 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:43,040 But I think what still matters the most hasn't changed in my 30 years. 178 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,120 I mean, 30 years later, I can still go to the hospital and visit the sick kid. 179 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,200 30 years later, I can still make a pastoral phone call to a family. 180 00:11:53,200 --> 00:12:00,880 30 years later, I can still respond in a timely manner to a family in need. 181 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,880 That's the stuff that I wish I would have... I kind of undervalued that early on, just 182 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,760 the value of the nitty gritty. 183 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:15,880 The other thing I think I wish I would have known earlier on was how if you don't really 184 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:23,600 pay attention to the stuff that you know matters, but you take it for granted, how quickly it 185 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,360 fades away or how quickly you can lose sight of it. 186 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:32,400 So I'll use an example of Jesus first in ministry. 187 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Jesus-centered, Jesus-focused ministry. 188 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,040 We would all say, well, of course, that's what the church does. 189 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,160 And yet, because we just assume that's what the church does, that's what we're about, 190 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:52,200 if we're not careful, the church, youth groups have really gotten good at this, can become 191 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,560 and Jesus instead of Jesus and. 192 00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:01,080 What I mean by that is if you take your eye off the ball and you just assume, of course, 193 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,640 we're all about Jesus, if you're not careful, you start doing all these things. 194 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:11,680 We do small groups, we do camps, we do activities, and we talk about Jesus as opposed to no, 195 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,200 we talk about Jesus. 196 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,680 We're Jesus first and we also have small groups. 197 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,600 We're Jesus first and we do camp. 198 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:30,960 We're about Jesus and just that understanding or that realization that if you take your 199 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,240 eye off the ball of what's most important and there's, you know, obviously Jesus first, 200 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,520 but there's 18, 20 things that we would say in ministry are really, really important. 201 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:47,000 And you can't just assume that everybody all the time for all eternity will remember that 202 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,720 those are the most important things unless you're constantly ringing the bell and pointing 203 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,760 people to this is what we're about and this is what we do. 204 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,520 And we do some other stuff. 205 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,200 It's real easy to get caught up in all the other stuff and then you kind of lose sight 206 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,480 of the stuff that matters most. 207 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,480 Wow. 208 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:11,080 Mike kept so many notes I'm taking. 209 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:17,680 So what do you find yourself curious about these days? 210 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:18,680 Yeah. 211 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:27,200 Well, I think you asked that question at the most odd time in ministry's history, right? 212 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,680 If you would have asked me that question two months ago, I think I'd have a totally different 213 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,840 answer, but it's impossible for you to ask me that question right now without thinking 214 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,680 like what's the church going to look like when this is all over? 215 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:46,160 And I don't know if the church is going to be radically different in, I don't know how 216 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,760 much church is going to stay online and all that kind of stuff. 217 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:58,840 I definitely think if we don't walk away with one or two or three massive learnings and 218 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,800 one or two seismic shifts that we have to make coming out of this, I think we've missed 219 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,040 an opportunity. 220 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:14,720 So that's what I'm new to on is that I'm fascinated by the fact that this has brought old school 221 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:20,280 and new school have collided in this season when it comes to ministry. 222 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,280 Praise the Lord, we live in a new school world. 223 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:30,280 If this had happened 20 years ago, 15 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago, the church's 224 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,760 ability to meet online and to continue functioning without gathering, I think would have been 225 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,520 non-existent. 226 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,600 So that's the new school that's forcing Zoom meetings and online services and all this 227 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,040 crazy new awesome stuff that's always existed. 228 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,480 We just never tapped into it because we didn't really have a need. 229 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:57,760 But it's also forcing us to go back to some really old school practices of phone calling 230 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:58,760 our people. 231 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,200 How are you doing? 232 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,740 How can the church pray for you? 233 00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:03,840 Are you in need? 234 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:11,720 We can drop off groceries, handwriting notes to our congregants and mailing stuff. 235 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:19,000 There's just some really kind of old school ministry that has got left by the wayside 236 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,720 that now even though we're benefiting from technology to keep the church moving, we're 237 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:30,800 also kind of being forced or maybe if we're shrewd and smart, we're re-embracing some 238 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:36,480 of the older ministry practices that we never had to rely on for the last 20 years that 239 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,460 some of us are going back to a little bit. 240 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:44,000 We can't rely on programs and fancy youth buildings. 241 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,560 We can't rely on amazing worship bands. 242 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,560 I mean, we can. 243 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:55,160 If you watch Easter, holy smokes, some of the best part of Easter services was how the 244 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,000 worship teams were doing worship. 245 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,460 But it's still different. 246 00:17:00,460 --> 00:17:03,780 We can't rely on so much of the stuff that we've relied on. 247 00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:07,680 It's making me rethink relational, incarnational ministry. 248 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,960 Like how do you really go to people even though we can't go to people? 249 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:13,960 What's that look like? 250 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:21,720 I'm rambling a little bit because it's a great question and one that is constantly on my 251 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:22,720 mind. 252 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:23,720 What are we thinking about? 253 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,600 And so for me, the biggest thing is just what are we going to hold on to when we come out 254 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,840 of the season that we'll look back and say, you know, that was a tough two or three months 255 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:39,480 or whatever it's going to end up being, but wow, what a gift. 256 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,360 What a gift to the church. 257 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,480 What a gift to families. 258 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,400 You know, for all the squabbling and fussing and fighting, I'm sure that's going on with 259 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,320 families and trying to homeschool kids and kids going stir crazy. 260 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,240 When it's all said and done, what a gift. 261 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,140 I know it doesn't sound like it right now and I'm an empty nester. 262 00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:03,080 So it's easier to say this than if I was living it. 263 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:11,440 But what a gift for parents to have prolonged family time right now that we just don't have 264 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:12,440 anymore. 265 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,600 And so I think coming out of it, it's what do we want to hold on to? 266 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:16,600 What have we learned? 267 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,040 What are one or two big changes that we're going to make as a result? 268 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,960 Yeah, I know that's been in a way this has brought my family and I close. 269 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,320 That's been a wonderful benefit of all that. 270 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:38,120 Just dinner and trying to watch movies together every night, it's been wonderful. 271 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:45,600 What is something that you have failed at? 272 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:51,840 Well from a minister, a couple things, a couple things come to mind instantly. 273 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,720 I think I failed at all. 274 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,240 What category do you want? 275 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,320 Do you want friendship fails, marriage fails, parenting fails, leadership fails? 276 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,320 Whatever. 277 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:10,040 All over of Jesus, just failings of my loyalty to Jesus. 278 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,840 Pick a category, I'll give you a handful of fails. 279 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:22,680 But I have failed and I've corrected this, I think, but I think it was a failure, a significant 280 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:30,840 failure and it's what sparked that conversation about if you take your eye off the ball. 281 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:37,800 I think one of my failures came to surface a few years ago and that was when we were 282 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:44,320 interviewing a lot of kids who have grown up in our ministry who felt called to ministry 283 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,800 and they wanted to be interns with us for the summer. 284 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:54,200 And we were interviewing five or six or seven of those kids and part of that interview I 285 00:19:54,200 --> 00:20:00,280 would ask them, hey, let's pretend we're at summer camp and I'm a teenager and I asked 286 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,400 you to lead me into a relationship with Jesus. 287 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,320 How would you do that? 288 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,920 And Ryan, it was shockingly disappointing. 289 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,360 These are kids who are the cream of our youth ministry crop. 290 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:12,680 They felt called to ministry. 291 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:19,360 They wanted to intern with us and I would say way more often than not these students 292 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:28,720 had a really, really hard time articulating the gospel, helping students understand a 293 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,800 true need for Jesus. 294 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,720 I mean, I would get answers everything from, well, I would just tell them to run into God's 295 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,520 arms, just run to God. 296 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,680 Okay. 297 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,680 Well now what? 298 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,680 I'm running to God. 299 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,680 I'm running to, now what? 300 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:44,680 Oh, he's just going to hug you. 301 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,680 He just wants to hug you. 302 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,680 Okay. 303 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,280 I'm hugging God. 304 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,680 And that would be the end of their ability to explain what life in Christ means or why 305 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,160 we need a savior or how do we enter into new life in Jesus. 306 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,840 Or the far extreme would be just rattling off the talking points perfectly. 307 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,400 But if I gave them a question or I pushed back, they wouldn't know how to explain it 308 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,720 in any language. 309 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,920 They just knew the Roman road, but they knew that they had the Roman road memorized. 310 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,880 They didn't know how to make it conversational and personal. 311 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,040 They couldn't defend it. 312 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:27,600 And so for me, that was a massive failure of our youth ministry that I'm the leader 313 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:34,000 of is failing and helping our students really understand. 314 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,200 And these are kids who are Christians and love Jesus, but they really don't know how 315 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,440 to explain that or defend it or articulate it in a way that shows that they really do 316 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,680 truly understand it. 317 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:48,680 That was hard. 318 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,680 That was hard. 319 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,680 That was hard. 320 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,080 And so that's where we started making some adjustments to Jesus first thinking we've 321 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:03,600 created a uniformed way that we teach students to share their faith and to defend it. 322 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,480 And we're just trying to kind of turn the tide of that. 323 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,560 And I think we have largely, but it's tough. 324 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,600 I mean, go to any church in America under any pastor and there's gonna be a whole bunch 325 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,920 of people in that congregation that the light bulb hasn't quite turned on fully. 326 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,760 It's still kind of going off and on. 327 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,240 And the pastor is doing a great job. 328 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,240 So it's not all on me. 329 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,240 It's not all on us. 330 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:31,000 Part of the adolescent development process is they just don't get it all right away. 331 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,200 But it was a little bit of a reminder. 332 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,440 And then I've also failed just super pragmatically. 333 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,040 I'm an ideas guy. 334 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:45,200 If I wasn't in ministry, I think I would be a failed entrepreneur failed because I have 335 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,240 had so many. 336 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:55,120 I do know that you have purchased 53 website domains. 337 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,120 I purged it. 338 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,040 I purged it a month ago. 339 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:05,360 Ryan, Ryan, I had over, I had over 100 website domain names. 340 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:09,720 I've got over 100. 341 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,120 And I've worked with friends to pitch little company ideas here and there. 342 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,720 And what it's done for me is it's made me realize I'm a pastor. 343 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,880 I'm not a business guy. 344 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:22,880 I'm not. 345 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,840 I mean, I think I am an entrepreneur because that's how I think I'm a creator. 346 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:33,540 I'm a create, but using all that energy and all that gift, all those gifts into the ministry 347 00:23:33,540 --> 00:23:35,960 setting is my contribution to the world. 348 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:44,000 I'll let somebody else have to deliver, you know, socks in a creative box monthly, all 349 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,920 those dumb things, all other people worry about how to do that kind of stuff. 350 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,800 But if anybody watching has those skills and they want to come to me with some ideas, I'd 351 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:59,800 be happy to, I'd be happy to partner and just take a little skim a little off the profits 352 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,680 once you do all the hard work. 353 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,280 Probably going to happen. 354 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,280 So good. 355 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,920 Well, we're, we're definitely going to have to do a part two at some point. 356 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,800 You have so much, so much to say. 357 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,000 Let's make a little bit of a pivot. 358 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:27,440 And what would you describe as the as the current sort of water situation in the world? 359 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,600 Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be honest, Ryan. 360 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,600 I would only describe it based on what I've learned largely from you and hanging out from 361 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,840 you and being exposed to ocean water. 362 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,080 Like most people, I knew there was a water problem. 363 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,120 I knew that a whole lot of people don't have access to clean water. 364 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:55,120 I knew that a lot of the big illnesses in the world, not in America, not in America, 365 00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:02,560 but all over the world, a lot of the problems and sicknesses are caused by people having 366 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,840 little to no clean water access. 367 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,620 And I knew that there's a whole bunch of nonprofit organizations that are out there digging wells 368 00:25:09,620 --> 00:25:12,720 and trying to trying to help figure it out. 369 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:24,520 I didn't understand anything about the, the desalinization options or technology until 370 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,400 you started really immersing yourself in it. 371 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:35,280 I didn't understand really how the church could really play a big part in it until you 372 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,040 started, you and I started talking. 373 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,920 And to me, that's the most exciting part about ocean water is that those two things that 374 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:50,400 you're you're going after desalinization as your method and you're using the local church 375 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,440 as your as your method. 376 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,440 Right. 377 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,640 Or as your model of how to get it done. 378 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,760 Those two things to me are what set ocean water way apart. 379 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,040 And there's room for everybody. 380 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,040 There's room. 381 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,640 I mean, there's room for everybody. 382 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,040 I just love the angle that you're going after it. 383 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,040 I think it's I think it's super sustainable. 384 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:19,320 I think I think the only way any real significant nonprofit work in the in the Christian arena 385 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:27,400 in the faith based arena is ultimately sustainable is if it's local church based, not local church 386 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:37,120 funded, but local church based like using using the local church as as the people in 387 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,400 the field doing it. 388 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,560 Yes. 389 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,080 Because that's you know, those those local churches or the local church isn't going anywhere. 390 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,080 No. 391 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:53,800 You know, if Ryan if if God blesses ocean water and you start a thousand churches all 392 00:26:53,800 --> 00:27:00,960 over the world doing clean water as their mission, their evangelism, their their ministry 393 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:09,800 to the community and you get old and you close ocean waters doors and there's no successor 394 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,280 to take it over. 395 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,640 Who cares? 396 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,640 Exactly. 397 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,080 The work doesn't stop. 398 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,760 The work doesn't stop because you've got a thousand churches that are doing it on your 399 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,600 behalf on the kingdom's behalf. 400 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,880 And so to me, that's that's the key. 401 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:38,800 Yeah, when when when I when I really understood that the local church needed to champion local 402 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,240 water rights for the indigenous. 403 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,920 Yeah. 404 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:56,160 Well, that's when that's when I knew it was time to take a very big jump in after being 405 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,200 trained at Saddleback and doing what we're doing now. 406 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:08,160 And it's it's why I've chosen to do this this podcast, because if someone else was having 407 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,640 this conversation, I'd be happy to go support them and help them to do it. 408 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,720 We want to be this is important and we want to we want to be that voice for it. 409 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,720 Yeah. 410 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:20,720 Yeah. 411 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,200 Well, and you're you know, you're you're a micro example, I think, of why the pivot 412 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,480 mattered before you pivoted. 413 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:39,520 Ocean water was showing up as an NGO and delivering water filters and educating people. 414 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,720 But if you quit doing it, the network would have quit. 415 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,800 And then you then you pivoted and became a church that's planting churches to do the 416 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,800 work. 417 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:57,200 And now that the opportunity for exponential ministry and for this thing to outlive Ryan 418 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,280 Dallamator is is significant. 419 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,980 Especially at this moment in time when so many of our younger leaders, all the people 420 00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:14,360 that are half our age are just so bored, they're just so bored, absolutely bored with church, 421 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:20,320 bored with the way they've experienced life. 422 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,640 And, you know, you look at the world, you look at one hundred and ninety seven countries, 423 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,880 you look at one hundred and eight of those countries that have direct access to the ocean, 424 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,960 you look at tens of thousands of beaches all over the world that they don't even have a 425 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,360 church in the needy places. 426 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,880 And so we just pray that we can start to have this conversation and that God will start 427 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:50,000 to call the people that, you know, he taps us all on the shoulder, right? 428 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,720 It's how we're sitting here. 429 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:58,440 And you think that God just starts these little things in your life, like way back in high 430 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,720 school when I went surfing with you, he tapped me on the shoulder and he tapped you on the 431 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,560 shoulder, so we're kind of hoping and praying out of this that by having this conversation 432 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,920 that God will start to tap some people on the shoulder so we can make a difference in 433 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:13,920 people's lives. 434 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:20,040 I had a feeling when you and I got together today that this was going to go fast. 435 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,480 I had 10 questions, I think we got through six of them. 436 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,800 Maybe we could come back in a couple of weeks, Kurt. 437 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:32,560 You have so much that needs to just be heard and a lot of note taking from a lot of people 438 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:33,560 that are going to listen to this. 439 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Maybe we can come back and do a part two in a couple of weeks. 440 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,160 Would you be open to that? 441 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,160 Of course. 442 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,160 Sorry. 443 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,160 Sorry. 444 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,160 I got a little bit long. 445 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,480 No, no, no, no, that's exactly how we want this to roll. 446 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,440 And I think I can say on behalf of everybody, thank you so much for your time, man. 447 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,640 I was taking copious mental notes as you were. 448 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,640 Thanks. 449 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,200 Thanks for having me, bro. 450 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,200 Love you, dude. 451 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,200 Have a wonderful day, everybody. 452 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,200 You too. 453 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,640 See you.