Hello everybody and welcome to an episode of the Awaken Together podcast.
I'm Kat.
I'm Jen.
And we are leading up to the holidays.
So with the holidays, you know that food and gift giving are a huge part of the season,
especially here in the US.
We're marketed about it through all sorts of mediums, TV, social, online, everywhere
you look, right?
So today's episode is all about that over consumption and materialism and attachment
to things and how those are so closely correlated to identity and societal expectations.
So Jen and I, we were just talking about our relationships with shopping and materialism
and all the things and how that's really changed over the years quite a bit.
So would you like to start by sharing a little bit about your story?
Yes, Kat.
And happy holiday season.
We are here.
Yeah.
So it is so funny.
I was sitting here in reflection, like when did things fully shift for me?
And I honestly can't even pinpoint an exact.
So I'm just going to kind of share what I used to look like and where I'm at now and
just some of the processes that happened on the in between.
But I remember firstly, like I remember like age 19, like going high heeled shopping.
Like I had like shoes.
I'm just guessing I must have been influenced by all the movies of like people with shoe
closets.
Yeah, that was like so cool.
I was like, I have to have all these shoes.
And yet I also like never like I don't have any memory of hardly ever wearing those shoes.
But I had this relationship to shopping that was like so, so ingrained.
I feel like I did a lot of shopping with my family growing up.
And that was kind of yeah, like a family kind of tradition was to do a lot of shopping,
especially around the holidays and definitely falling into that over consumption.
But I remember just filling in time all the time with going to the store.
Like I would go to work, be exhausted and then head to go clothes shopping, which is
so far from where I'm at now.
And it's wild to think that I used to just spend so much time just going to the store
and buying things that I didn't necessarily even need.
I think there was such a practice around just going to the store and browsing through and
just picking stuff out.
But I reflect back and I think a lot of that was very due to me being so scared of space,
space to think, space to rest, space to relax, that I think it was almost like a nervous
habit of like, OK, how can I stay busy?
How can I keep going?
I also think probably in those years, my nervous system was so dysfunctional that the fact
that I would leave work and then want to go do more things that stimulated me is showing
kind of like where my baseline sympathetic fight, flight, freeze and fawn mode was.
I was just constantly craving like stress and high sensory input all the time.
And yeah, I just had so much crap.
Like I just remember having so much stuff and I think I was proud.
I was like making money and working and I just didn't really know the value of things
and where to put all of that.
I think there was a lot I still had to learn.
But through yoga teacher training, I know that I did a lot of reflection on my relationship
to consumption and how much stuff I owned and had.
I remember doing a giant like purge where we brought items in and kind of release what
wasn't working anymore and got rid of a bunch of stuff.
And I remember as I've shared in this podcast before watching the documentary minimalist
and being really inspired by that.
And along the journey, I think I piece to that because of my neuro divergences, I pay
attention a lot to my environment.
I definitely am always like noticing what's around me.
And the less stuff that I have around, the more present I can be, I'm not using stuff
outside of me to distract me as much.
And yeah, it's beautiful to be in a spot now where I really shop when I absolutely like
really need to.
And a lot of times when I do go shopping, I I'm getting rid of stuff to replace it.
You know, I'm not adding to this like overabundance.
So there's a few of my points there.
And why don't you share a little bit of your relationship to stuff and how it's evolved
as well?
Yeah, I resonate with a lot of what you said, especially like growing up in a family that
going shopping was just like a normal thing and something that you did together.
I know that like my mom and my grandmother, they that's still how they spend time together.
And it's funny because I call my mom every day.
I call my grandmother every Sunday.
And whenever I call them on the weekends, like, oh, what are you doing?
And over there together, they're shopping like, oh, again.
Oh, I thought you were just shopping like yesterday or last weekend.
Oh, we were like, what are you shopping for?
Like, oh, a dress for this thing.
I'm like, oh, don't you have a lot of dresses?
I try not to be judgmental, but it's so hard.
It's so hard.
Like, what are you shopping for again?
And yeah, I don't know.
I just don't know what else to do.
I think that might be a part of it at that age.
I don't know.
Yeah, so that was a big part of like my growing up experience of like, OK, well, let's go
shopping.
Let's spend some time together.
And my one of my screenings going back to the AIM days was literally shopaholic.
Can you believe that?
I think it's really funny now because I don't get imposter syndrome doing many things, but
shopping clothes shopping, I think is like probably when I experienced the most imposter
syndrome because I look around, I'm like in my athleisure and everyone is like really
well dressed.
And I don't know.
It's just not a part of my experience.
Like I try sometimes, but it's not like something you're really passionate about.
I go shopping now, like maybe once or twice a year max for clothes.
And yeah, back then it was just like an every week occurrence.
And it was enough of your identity to put that into AIM screening.
Yeah, that's a lot.
Shopaholic 211.
Holler to girl.
I love it.
Oh my God.
Yeah, it's just wild to think back to that time.
I had a massive shoe collection just like you.
My mom still whenever I go back and visit is like, can we go through your old shoes
and every time like, OK, you can get rid of this fair.
And it's funny because I don't live in Massachusetts.
I go back a couple of times a year, but I never wear the shoes that I have there because
they're really high heels.
There's still a little part of me that's like, oh, those are actually cute.
Maybe I'll wear them again one day.
But I make myself every time I go back, like let go of at least one.
Love that.
Yeah.
And then I would just get to make up and just all like the quintessential girly girl things
because that's the mode that I thought I had to fit into.
And I would get compliments, you know, on my things.
And so that filled this void in me that felt like I needed to uphold that and keep up with
it.
Kind of like keeping up with the Joneses just to be feel some some sort of worth.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point that a lot of it is probably just a real lack of
self love and identity that's not tied in to stuff that's so fleeting.
I think when you start having a greater sense of self, you kind of see naturally the side
effect of that is more of a release of this need to validate yourself through what others
are are perceiving about you, what others are thinking about you.
I think there's so as we said, we wanted this episode to be to kind of point to the identity
that can come with stuff.
And I think when you get over complimented about something, it's very easy for that to
become an ego identity.
And I think it's so easy to fall into that with stuff.
And not that I believe that your clothes can be a sense of expression, a sense of self.
But you really have to, I think, look at your just overall attachment to that because it's
not something that is inherently always going to belong to you.
And you have to know that the grip on that needs to be pretty loose.
You know, does that make sense?
It sure does.
Yeah.
And the word the yama is a parigraha.
And this translates literally to non-breed, non possessiveness and non-attachment.
And yet one of the five yamas from Patanjali's Eight Limbs of Yoga, if you remember that
episode where we talked about all the yamas, so many yamas.
So the more that we can unattach ourselves from things, because at the end of the day,
like Jenny, you were saying this before when we were chatting, but like if all of your
things burned down in a fire one day, who would you be?
Who would you be?
Right.
If you're so closely tied with your identity to your things, then what happens next?
You kind of have to rebuild and learn.
Yeah.
I think that that is something I try to always check myself on is if I, if I lost this item,
could I find like a sense of peace even without it?
I think that's the relationship you should have to the stuff around you.
And yeah, I mean, coming from a girl who used to participate in Black Friday and go like
insane and be right at the door ready to like bust some down.
And I told Kat like shamefully, I literally remember watching the security guard getting
like trampled at the mall.
And I was not a part of the trampling, but I was a bystander and I watched it happen.
And like just we were monsters.
Like it's actually crazy because it shows so much that that seed of capitalism and greed
is so deep that we like forget our humanity.
It's a super big reflection to where we've gotten to as society.
And I think part of my I used to have fun doing it way less even about the stuff, but
I thought it was just kind of like this very interesting social experience.
But now really knowing the intricacies of our system, I'm realizing like how much it
reflects just as having such a poor order of priorities, you know, and where there's
so many people that don't even have enough resources and some people that have just an
overabundance.
And it is so important to check and stay close to.
But as you were saying, Kat, like, yeah, we could lose everything.
And all you have is your relationship to yourself.
Nothing around you is fully guaranteed.
But who you are on the inside, when you can become safe with that sense of identity that
doesn't hinge on external, you're going to be safe no matter what.
Like that is where your ultimate value needs to be driven to improve, not so much what
is necessarily around.
And I've thought of this a lot.
I've shared my spiritual awakening really happening like hugely around when I had my
DUI and I ended up in jail.
And I remember for a moment when I was in jail, having this sense of peace that I hadn't
felt before, and it was I didn't let it last very long before, you know, driving myself
back into like complete fear cycle.
But I was I remember being perplexed why I felt like a sense of peace.
And it was because in that moment, I had nothing that belonged to me.
I had nothing I could run to to distract myself.
I was just there with my thoughts.
And there was a moment of like, wow, I don't know if I've even let myself have this before,
like to be able to look around and there's literally nothing I can do but be here.
I honestly think that was like my first moment of ever feeling that because I've always stayed
busy.
I've always found something to be an excuse to not like learn to sit with myself and develop
a relationship to me.
And that's something that came along on my spiritual journey that completely shifted
my priorities, because now, I mean, I could care less about the stuff that I that used
to have like so much weight.
Totally.
And it's that shift in perception of looking outside of ourselves for happiness to looking
within.
And that's that's the teacher.
Right.
That's everything.
Yeah.
And let's talk about.
Oh, go ahead.
I think about like how I do have some items that I really like that are important to me.
But now, whenever I lose an item like that or it breaks, I just tell myself like, oh,
well, you know, it served me so well.
And that was it's time to say goodbye.
And now we parted and it makes space for something else that I love the same or even more to
come my way.
It's such a good perspective.
And, yeah, let's talk sentimental items, because I think that came up a lot in yoga teacher
training.
I remember when we had this reflection on our relationship to things outside of us,
a lot of people had loved ones that had passed away or old relationships where there was
stuff that they were holding on to that just brought them so many memories.
And we all really set with that.
Like, is there potential that some of these items, just even being in our presence, are
putting us back into old loops of ourselves when we are meant to evolve and grow?
And yet these items are continuously bringing us to moments in the past.
And we set with that.
I remember we had like a giant releasing ceremony of all of our stuff.
And we had some we had some huge cries as like a group and yoga teacher training people.
Remember one student in my class brought a rocking chair that had belonged to his grandpa.
And there was just a lot of realizing that when you look at something and it it flashes
you back, it can seem so nice to have that.
And I think there can be processing time or having that can help kind of teeter off from
the grief that can come with loss.
But you also have to reflect that if you have all these items that are holding this sentimental
value, it also potentially could be driving you into past cycles and patterns.
Yes, absolutely.
That's like it's not about the actual item itself.
Right.
It's about the meaning behind it.
And I think that's what gets lost on so many people.
Like I remember growing up my best friend crying when she lost this ring that her grandmother
gave her.
And, you know, like at first you think, oh, that's so understandable.
But like really, it's not about the ring.
Like it's about her grandmother and her relationship to her and having something that reminded
her of her.
And yes, that is really hard not trying to diminish that.
But like having a moment to celebrate your grandmother in those times can bring you a
lot more peace than just like trying to find a replacement of the ring that looks similar
to it, just to like have that physical item back.
Yeah.
I think a lot of the root of us holding on to physical items is still kind of based in
that societal way of thinking of we need stuff to hold value, that our material gains are
equivalent to status or identity.
And I think that kind of ends up making us latch to items being so tied in with people.
And this shifts us right into kind of gift culture, because I remember a lot of the stuff
that was kind of hard to let go is remembering what people had bought me for gifts and just
feeling guilty to get rid of certain things.
And honestly, once again, it's so not a reflection of the item.
And if someone gets that upset that you no longer have X, Y, Z that they gave you, like
gifts should not come with the stipulation of how long you keep it.
If you value it, and that I think comes back to insecurity of putting material focus over
actual relationship building and things that are more substantial and deeper than that.
And I think with the gift giving culture, me and Kat both have gifts on the lowest of
our love language.
So sorry to the people listening that have gift giving really high.
I think it's beautiful to be able to give an item and just say like, I was thinking
of you, here's what I got.
But I do think we have to watch the pressure that can come with gift giving.
I feel like personally, when I'm getting gifts from someone repetitively, it adds this like
social pressure that I need to make sure I stay on top of reciprocating that same way.
And I think that can get a little tricky.
I think there is gift giving that can be done with a lot more intention and could be like,
you know, more crafty, like fun gifts that are a pour out of your creative spirit versus
having to be these like pricier items or items that hold a lot of like, you know, value to
them.
I think that's where we're kind of letting that societal pressure once again, drip into
what we think is normal when it is not normal to crave social interaction via stuff, you
know, thousand percent.
Heck yes.
And I mean, like, let's not fall privy to capitalism.
Let's not let capitalism win.
That's what all of this is about.
Seriously, it's like the things, it's our capitalistic society that teaches us all of
these things from a really young age of like, the more things you have, the better the shinier
object, the better you are.
And that is just so not true.
So if you're like us, if you're like Jen and I and gift giving is a lot of pressure and
brings about a lot of expectation, here are a couple of ideas for you.
You can have a conversation with your friend group if you usually exchange gifts or your
family and come to an agreement and just kind of say like, hey, I've been doing some thinking
this holiday season and rather than having a whole gift giving season like we usually
do, how about we do a white elephant or how about we do a secret Santa or better yet,
how about we do like a group outing together and we pay for our own individual tickets,
but that way we're spending the time together.
The reason I said the white elephant and secret Santa is because then you're getting one gift,
but everybody gets to still participate in a group exchange.
So that whole like ceremonial aspect is there, the ritual continues, but you're spending
a lot less money and it's the same agreed upon upon amount.
So you're not feeling like, like this comparative nature of, oh, they spent more on me than
I'm spending on them and all these arbitrary rules that just come with like our normal
gift giving society and culture.
And then, I mean, conscious experiences over things.
I would be absolutely thrilled if a friend asked me, you know, how about we all do this
really cool thing that we've been talking about.
We go see the show together and we make it like our holiday get together.
I'd love that.
I love giving massages.
I try to use my physical, like something I can do.
That's like taking some of my time, which this is right on brand for quality time, love
language, top, top slide.
But I like something that is like a service, something that helps you relax, like doing
yeah, like leading family yoga or like leading a sound bath, like doing something where I
can kind of pass on this more sense of relaxation and healing versus having to add to this like
overstimulated kind of mindset.
And another big point is, first of all, yeah, what you said, Kat, like, oh my gosh, the
anxiety I used to have making a list of like 30 people I needed to get gifts for coming
up with an idea for each of them and just stressing myself out, knowing that I was going
to get gifts from those people and I wanted to make sure I was being kind and reciprocating.
It was just all too much on already kind of like overstimulating time of the year.
And I think we also need to keep in mind that our planet is suffering now.
We know that this over consumption, this like fast fashion, we are putting a lot of resources
into constantly producing items and we really need to tone that back, not just for our own
mental well-being and less stress to save our mind and body connection, but also our
planet needs a break.
Like we are pumping out stuff.
They've shown that the clothing industry uses so much water.
There is just so much resources that are being wasted by this overproduction.
So even like just watching it from that standpoint, not just a mental health standpoint, but knowing
that we've got to get more conscious on stuff like that.
It is time, it is needed, and we got to change what is considered normal for our society,
especially around the holidays.
Seriously, it's like if there weren't enough reasons, that is a massive one right there.
So like leaning into thrifting gifts, like using things, let's bust the shame around
that.
That is cool.
Items have more of a history, more of a story, and that gives them more character.
And people always love a story behind something too.
I so agree.
We wanted to cover a few other things about over consumption.
So the other like biggie around the holidays, what if we can cut down on some of that need
to over overly give, overly receive.
We also want to look at our over consumption on food.
We wanted to touch briefly on that because it is kind of insane guys.
If we just like sit with it for a second, this little second that we eat so much for
Thanksgiving.
Like I remember last year, I like took a little Thanksgiving kind of break and it felt actually
really good because first of all, we kind of are learning, you know, more and more that
there is history to be reflected on in that.
And I just think some of our traditions, what it's turned into can go from just spending
time together and gratitude and is so much more like you have to have these 20 dishes.
You're going to get like sick because you ate so much food and then you're going to
be down for like a week.
And that is like a known thing.
Like what is that?
You guys were like, that's a problem.
Seriously, we just gorge ourselves and that's like, oh, it's the holidays.
I used to eat like six biscuits.
Like, yeah.
And it's like, I know people who will not eat for like a day or two leading up to Thanksgiving
just to quote unquote make room.
Like no, that's not how it works.
You're actually shrinking your stomach first of all, by decreasing your appetite and starving
yourself.
And then you're just gorging yourself and your tummy's going to hurt really bad and
you're going to have some indigestion.
Yeah.
Everyone just like lays around and does it look good for the whole day?
No.
And then you'll be on the toilet the whole next day and nobody wants that.
Let's be real.
Yes.
So even redefining some of the expectations around that, like making it a lot more about
the intention of coming together.
I know life can get busy and there can be really little time to actually sit and communicate
together.
I would think of Thanksgiving so much more as sitting and pausing and gratitude, bringing
awareness to the fact that we are rewriting a lot of what society's expectations look
like.
And this can be a moment of like deep reflection and deeper communication, actually carving
out the time to make it happen since a lot of us get like holiday around that.
And yeah, redefining what it means, because I think it's really time to do that.
I totally agree.
And hey, like I'm a foodie too.
I love eating, but mindful eating.
It's like a great opportunity to incorporate a little bit of mindfulness into the day at
the holiday table with you.
So just like be with that food that maybe you've been smelling as it's been cooking,
practice gratitude for it, for the moment, for the people surrounding the table with
you.
And yeah, just like listening to your body.
It doesn't have to be so complicated.
Yeah.
And if it's stressful to make every single dish happen in the whole day, it's just this
giant stress to get it done the way you expect it to be also kind of challenging what that
looks like too, because that is super, super important.
And I wanted to share too that, you know, I think as we said, there's so many advertisements
for expectations around holiday season as it is.
It can be very overstimulating.
We talked about this in our hacking the holidays last year at this time when we had that episode.
But I think a lot for a lot of us, if this is a time where you're going to be around
more family or family you're not usually around with, you're allowed to carve out boundaries
for that.
I think so much of the overeating and over snacking isn't always just because you're
just deciding to do it for the holidays.
I think a lot of it is so unconscious because you're trying to regulate yourself because
all that is happening around you is just too much.
So versus like heading to something to snack to because you're literally stressed out listening
to the conversations that are happening around you.
Why don't you just go take a little outside break?
Say you know, I'm feeling a little antsy.
I'm feeling like I just need to go take a little piece, a little moment of peace, maybe
going to your room a little more often and just sitting and going and take taking some
deep breaths.
I think a lot of our eating habits can point to the state of our nervous system.
And I know that when it's a lot, I either under eat or overeat because I'm really trying
just to deal instead of like carving out the boundaries, which I now know are so important
to give myself actual breaks so that I'm not just trying to cope and coast through it.
Totally.
So well said.
And if you want more tips like that, definitely go listen back to that episode hacking the
holidays from last year, like Jen said.
And next week, we're also going to be talking about this a little bit more.
Just like how to calm your nervous system down, a little bit of review as well as a
meditation around the five senses.
You can take that into the rest of the holiday season with you.
We are so grateful for all of our listeners.
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We love you.
See you next week.
Bye.
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