1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Hello everybody and welcome to a new episode of the Awaken Together podcast. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:19,320 I'm Kat and today I am joined by a special guest to help us dive into the topic of psychedelic 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:20,320 integration. 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:25,960 Now, this is kind of like a part two from last season's episode where Jen and I shared 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,600 our experiences around catalyzing healing through psychedelics. 6 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:36,800 And I'm super excited to be joined today by a very special guest, Christine Grace. 7 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:43,200 Now, to give you a little bit of information on Christine before we dive in, Christine 8 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:48,400 is located in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and she's the founder of RAW, which stands for 9 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,480 Radically Authentic Wholeness. 10 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:55,920 And she's a part of the Leadership Council of the Whole Human Embodiment, which is a 11 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:01,840 focus on cultivating growth and healing through the intentional use of psychedelics and alternative 12 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:02,840 modalities. 13 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:09,400 She's also a certified transformational integration coach and has worked intentionally with psychedelic 14 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,520 medicines for her own holistic integration and growth for over a decade. 15 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,000 She has been supporting and guiding psychedelic medicine work with groups and individuals 16 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,120 for over four years and has coached over 300 people to embody their inner wisdom expressed 17 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,120 through these catalytic experiences. 18 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,360 So excited to introduce you to Christine. 19 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:32,360 Welcome. 20 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Thank you, Kat. 21 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,120 I appreciate that warm welcome. 22 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,120 Of course. 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,440 Thank you so much for being here. 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:40,440 How are you doing today? 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,440 Yeah, I'm doing great. 26 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,840 It's a lovely fall Saturday up here. 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,520 Our winters are getting pushed. 28 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,280 Normally, we have like snow on the ground by now, but we've been having these lovely 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,240 falls these last few years, so it's a sunny fall day up here in Calgary. 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,240 That's so nice. 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,120 It's a little dreary here in Denver today, but it's still like beautiful fall weather. 32 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,240 And I think it's kind of similar. 33 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,120 We get our first snow usually in October, but it's been gorgeous so far. 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,120 So I love it. 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,120 Yeah. 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,760 And to share how Christine and I know each other, I was actually lucky enough to experience 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:25,880 her work when I had been doing my ketamine therapy just a couple months ago now. 38 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,960 She was one of my integration coaches in a group session, and I absolutely loved everything 39 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,920 that she had to share, the way that she held the space. 40 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:37,520 And so that's why I asked her to be on with us today. 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,560 So again, thank you, Christine, for that. 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,280 You're so welcome. 43 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,280 And thank you. 44 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:43,560 I'm so glad it was helpful for you. 45 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Those group sessions can be so powerful. 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,020 So one of my favorite ways to integrate and work with people. 47 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:52,480 So special just hearing other people's experiences. 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,120 I found it very validating. 49 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,000 So yeah, that's kind of why we're here today, how we know each other. 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,820 And Christine, I'd love to just hear a little bit more about you. 51 00:03:01,820 --> 00:03:05,880 So what's your why for getting into this line of work? 52 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,720 Yeah, that's such a great question. 53 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:15,880 Basically for me, I stumbled into psychedelics when I was like 19. 54 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:20,520 Just some of the friends I had, I was running around with more of a people who would come 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,200 across psychedelics. 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,200 And I was suffering with really bad depression. 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:32,680 I had been depressed most of my life due to what psychedelics showed eventually was just 58 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,360 some trauma that had been repressed. 59 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:42,080 And it was through psychedelics that I actually started to not only understand myself and 60 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:51,160 what depression was actually kind of teaching me, but it helped me actually learn how to 61 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,120 live a more embodied and happy life. 62 00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:00,920 And then I obviously just became really interested in them and started to have worked with probably, 63 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,600 I think, seven or eight at this point in time, different psychedelics for different purposes 64 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:06,680 and different healing. 65 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:12,440 So once I learned that you can actually get out of depression and heal, I just kind of 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,560 became obsessed with healing in general. 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,840 Ended up going down the yoga route, the alternative route, and have studied quite a few different 68 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:29,440 alternative modalities because it's just so fascinating all the ways that we... 69 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,880 All the different layers of what it means to be human and all the different places where 70 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,560 our expression might need to be integrated or healed. 71 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:38,880 That part is just so fascinating. 72 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,480 And psychedelics basically hits all different realms of our being. 73 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,480 So basically one of the best modalities there is. 74 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,080 So that's probably a quick way I could describe my why for this work. 75 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,080 Amazing. 76 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,780 I feel like different people can be brought to the medicine in such different ways, right? 77 00:04:56,780 --> 00:05:03,720 Sometimes I find it's a really intentional one, like to heal something on purpose. 78 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,040 And sometimes it's kind of you just stumble upon it because your friends are doing it 79 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,760 or you're partying and it's introduced. 80 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,120 And then you discover all the benefits that can come with it down the line. 81 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,640 I think that was more my experience as well. 82 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:21,200 It's just like, well, here's this thing that you can do at a show to feel good. 83 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,880 And then it was so much more than that. 84 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:29,800 I was like, oh my gosh, blasted me off on this journey as well. 85 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:37,000 So thinking about that in your experience, knowing how diverse and dynamic these medicines 86 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,320 can be, who might be a good fit for psychedelic therapy and why? 87 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,720 Yeah, that's such a great question. 88 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:52,300 And I kind of approach it from two different lenses because one simple answer is anyone 89 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:54,480 who's interested in them. 90 00:05:54,480 --> 00:06:00,000 If you feel a pull, if you feel a desire, if you're curious, if you think it might be 91 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,080 worth it for you, anything that comes, particularly if it's coming from our inner source or inner 92 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:12,680 sense of being, for sure, I would encourage people to look into it. 93 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,840 Other than that, anyone who actually just wants to learn about themselves. 94 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:20,160 So there's become this big focus on psychedelic for healing, which is amazing. 95 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,920 It was a big part of my journey. 96 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,920 But psychedelics can be used to explore one's psyche more, to explore oneself, to explore 97 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,880 spirituality, to just understand the world in greater capacity. 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:37,640 So the alternate side of psychedelics is people who do want more introspection or more growth 99 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,940 ultimately, psychedelics can be really good for as well. 100 00:06:40,940 --> 00:06:43,200 So I would kind of answer it kind of two parts there. 101 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,600 If you're just pulled to it and think that it's something for you, or if you really want 102 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:54,640 to intentionally grow and move your life forward, both of those reasons would be good for psychedelics. 103 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,920 And then don't use it if you don't want to. 104 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,960 If you have a big old no in your body when you think about using psychedelics, don't 105 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:03,960 push yourself. 106 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,000 It's not for everybody, you know, it's not the panacea, it's not going to help every 107 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,680 single human. 108 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,120 I think that's kind of sometimes can be a fallacy. 109 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,080 If we're not pulled to something, it's not necessarily for us. 110 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,300 Yeah, I love that you said that. 111 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:29,000 And here on the show, we are really big into self inquiry tools, we've done to the Enneagram, 112 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:35,720 astrology, Myers-Briggs, all sorts of different ways to just learn more about who we are and 113 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:36,720 the self. 114 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:43,280 So I'm kind of curious, do you have any examples of maybe from past psychedelic experiences 115 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,720 or journeys that have really helped you learn about yourself? 116 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,320 I mean, every psychedelic journey, I would say helps me learn about myself, partially 117 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:59,540 because that's the intention I come at psychedelics, or come to psychedelics with, is to learn 118 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:00,540 about myself. 119 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:04,160 Like that's, that's one of for me personally, the greatest gifts psychedelics provide for 120 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,160 us. 121 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:11,240 But anything super specific, the one that always sends out to me as like being a very 122 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:22,160 transformative moment was in an ayahuasca ceremony when I shortened version, I learned 123 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:27,320 that basically the judgments I carry are only harming me. 124 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,080 And it was this massive understanding of not only are the judgments I'm carrying about 125 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,220 others or the judgments about the world or, or about right and wrong, not only are they 126 00:08:36,220 --> 00:08:46,300 only harming me, they're also, this part's kind of hard to understand, but they're projecting 127 00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:50,680 out judgment, which makes other people judge me more myself. 128 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,080 So it like doubly harms me. 129 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,600 And it was just this like deep, visceral understanding of like, holy crap, like if I just release 130 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,820 judgment, I'm not only releasing judgments I have on others, which harms me, but I'm 131 00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:06,940 also releasing judgments that might be projected onto me. 132 00:09:06,940 --> 00:09:10,120 And then integrating that becomes a whole thing. 133 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:15,080 But that was like just a deep, one of those versions of like deep learnings that can come 134 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,280 through psychedelics that transformed how I interacted with my family, transformed how 135 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,320 I interacted with like everybody in my life from there on out. 136 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,880 So yeah, I guess that's how I would answer that question. 137 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,400 Yeah, no, that's a really great one. 138 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:34,760 And I feel like they're endless too, but these takeaways, right, we have them when we're 139 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:35,760 on our journeys. 140 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,960 And then we just feel it on a cellular level. 141 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,980 That's like, when I was when I've been explaining psychedelic experiences in the past to people 142 00:09:43,980 --> 00:09:47,420 who haven't had their own experience with it. 143 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:49,200 That's my best way to describe it. 144 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,600 It's like we have these astounding takeaways and learnings and teachings that come from 145 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:55,640 it. 146 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,320 And then when we explain what it is, it might sound a bit simplistic to people who we're 147 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,860 sharing it with, right? 148 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:08,440 But for us, it's like absolutely mind blowing and it changes things. 149 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:16,480 So the most recent one that I can remember for myself was from my ketamine experience. 150 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:24,440 And I had six different times where I took it in a guided kind of container. 151 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,440 And inside of each of them, I had this little glimpse. 152 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,200 I was they were very visual. 153 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,560 So even with my eyes closed, like I had all sorts of visuals and I'm very clairvoyant. 154 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,960 So that's just kind of how I process and see things in my journeys. 155 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:48,120 I was seeing things like statues, like animals that I've never seen before, lots of colors. 156 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,520 And it's like my mind was my subconscious was taking me on this trip. 157 00:10:52,520 --> 00:11:02,360 And the feeling that I was kind of left with after my dosage had really waned off was that 158 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,160 I didn't have to protect myself so much. 159 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:11,800 And sitting with my husband, I would always kind of talk about it after he'd be like waiting 160 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,840 with bated breath to hear how my experience was. 161 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,240 And every time I just was coming from this place of calmness and sereneness and just 162 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,400 like the best way I can describe it is I was really sitting with my true self, my highest 163 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,400 self. 164 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,600 And I would just share about my experience, my journeys. 165 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,680 And there were some really vulnerable things that I would share, but I didn't feel like 166 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,000 I had to protect my heart. 167 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:42,840 Like I was very able to be open hearted and that didn't need to get defensive on no matter 168 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,340 what the response was. 169 00:11:44,340 --> 00:11:50,200 And that was new for me because in our relationship, my husband and I, I will admit it at least, 170 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:56,120 we get defensive sometimes when there's really no need to be, but there's a part of me that 171 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,000 feels like it needs to protect me. 172 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,800 And so whether it's his tone that feels a little icky or his volume or the words that 173 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,040 he's saying, it can easily trigger me. 174 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:14,820 And so my ketamine therapy brought to light just that and how, rethinking that a little 175 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:20,920 bit of do I actually need to be protective in this moment or defensive and having that 176 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,640 simple moment of introspection and asking was able to get me to that point of like, 177 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,080 maybe yes, and here's why. 178 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,160 And I can communicate that and we can have a conversation about it. 179 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,740 Maybe the answer is no. 180 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:38,280 And I can just let that guard down and just be present with that love. 181 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,280 That's so beautiful. 182 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,760 I love what you said there too, because that's one of the greatest benefits I've seen in 183 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,920 my years working with ketamine is that pause that ketamine can provide where you get a 184 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:54,320 pause and more of a moment of choice to choose which way you want to go in this moment. 185 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,140 Am I, do I have reason to be protective and defensive or don't I? 186 00:12:58,140 --> 00:13:02,560 And then you choose which way you go based on that little introspective moment. 187 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:03,560 It's beautiful. 188 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:04,560 That's so cool. 189 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:05,960 How has that shifted? 190 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,160 If you don't mind me asking you a question, how has that shifted your relationship with 191 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,160 your husband? 192 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,680 It's shifted a lot, honestly. 193 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,000 Our communication has really improved. 194 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,080 We've also been in couples therapy because I mean, I think everybody should be at some 195 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,080 point in their life. 196 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,480 Even if you don't think you have issues to work through, it's very validating to have 197 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,240 the therapist be like, wow, here's what you all do really well. 198 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,560 And here's areas of opportunity. 199 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,440 So just a lifelong learner. 200 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:40,280 But with that, now it's like whenever I can sense myself getting triggered in a conversation 201 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:46,280 with him, I can have that pause and take it for face value and say, I am not in the head 202 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,280 space to have this conversation right now. 203 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,160 And that has been pivotal for us. 204 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:59,040 And just like even having a conversation around that and how Kyle, he has let me know how 205 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,640 he really, really appreciates to hear that of like, I want to know when you can't have 206 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:09,200 a conversation about something rather than have you push along when you're feeling triggered. 207 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,760 And then we just don't have a productive conversation in the long run. 208 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,120 And then we're leaving the conversation feeling a little bitter and we weren't actually heard 209 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:22,000 where if we just stepped away and then came back to this conversation when I or we were 210 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,160 ready for it, it would be so much more smoother and flowy. 211 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,960 So actually a service. 212 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Right. 213 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:29,960 Right. 214 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:36,440 That's amazing that you've found that spaciousness within the relationship as well for the both 215 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,440 of you. 216 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,440 That's cool. 217 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,440 Thank you. 218 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,440 Yeah. 219 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:45,320 And so thinking about different psychedelic medicines, I know that you have experience 220 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,680 with quite a few. 221 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:52,800 So I'd love to just kind of hear your, I don't know, I don't want to say favorites, but like 222 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,600 any differences and differences among the medicines and really anything that you have 223 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,440 to share on on those different lights. 224 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,440 Sure. 225 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Yeah, I will do. 226 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,120 How could I answer this question? 227 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,640 I think I'm going to just do a quick overview as to what medicines I use and why, if that 228 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,720 works for you. 229 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,800 So psilocybin was probably my like was my first introduction. 230 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,520 And that one I think is one of the better introductory medicines. 231 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:30,280 Ketamine also being a new favorite for me for an introductory psychedelic because they're 232 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,120 particularly when supported properly, setting all of that stuff. 233 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,880 I don't know if we'll get into that much today. 234 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,160 You guys went over that quite a bit on that first one, but set setting are really crucial 235 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,840 for psychedelic use always. 236 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,680 So the guidance that's part, I'm going to assume these are all kind of guided, supported, 237 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:48,680 proper journeys. 238 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:49,680 Okay. 239 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:50,680 Moving forward. 240 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:57,480 But with psilocybin or ketamine, they're really good introductory experiences for us to start 241 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,920 to learn what it means to surrender into the medicine, what it means to kind of tap into 242 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:12,040 a more spiritual quality of our being and are just really beautiful and pathogenic medicines, 243 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,480 meaning that it helps us kind of connect to and feel the world around us. 244 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,240 MDMA would be another favorite for me. 245 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,200 My favorite for that one is actually couples work. 246 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:29,280 A lot of the research has been on trauma, which it's amazing for trauma. 247 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,440 But I really encourage people who want to work with MDMA as a couple. 248 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640 It can be super beneficial for that because it's even what you mentioned with ketamine, 249 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:46,320 where our kind of our guard drops with our partner and we're able to say that extra thing 250 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:51,440 that might be just below the surface, just like we're so transparent, we're so honest. 251 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,760 And then there's like that extra 5% that we're just a little bit scared to share. 252 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,360 All of a sudden, we're scared to share it and our partner who's also on MDMA can receive 253 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:06,160 it without their ego being flared, without their fear centers online as much. 254 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,680 So there's this exchange, this deeper exchange of information where we can connect more to 255 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,400 our partners and work through kind of those deeper, stickier layers that can kind of create 256 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,120 tension within a relationship. 257 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,520 So MDMA and my personal favorite for couples. 258 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:27,080 Yeah, ayahuasca, I would say is good for people really wanting... 259 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:34,480 Gosh, I have so many qualifiers for ayahuasca. 260 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,080 Properly held container is needed as well. 261 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,640 People who are trained, like there's lots of questions I would encourage people to ask 262 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,880 before just going to an ayahuasca ceremony. 263 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:49,160 But ayahuasca is really good for people who do have deep trauma and need people who really 264 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:58,080 understand psychedelics from a spiritual lens and want to connect more to their spiritual 265 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,800 aspects of life is who I would recommend ayahuasca for. 266 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,360 That's actually one that I'm really curious about right now. 267 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:13,180 I've experienced psilocybin, I've experienced MDMA and LSD and ketamine now, and I'm feeling 268 00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:15,480 this big pull to Aya. 269 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,680 So actually, would you mind sharing some of those qualifying questions that you would 270 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,880 encourage folks to lean into? 271 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,640 Yeah, yeah. 272 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:32,880 So ayahuasca being from the Amazon has a really long lineage and quite a few different lineages. 273 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,680 I'm not going to go into the history of that too, too much, but there's a lot of different 274 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,960 tribes and different parts of the world that work with ayahuasca and work with it slightly 275 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:42,960 differently. 276 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,400 So some of the info I have is based on just the lineage that I understand, which is the 277 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,200 Shipibo-Kanembo lineage. 278 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,680 So just one qualifier there that I'm speaking of only the one lineage that I really know 279 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,720 about. 280 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,000 But there's like decent training that you go through when you're learning to be an ayahuascaro 281 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:07,280 and an ayahuasca maestro or curandero, where they are dieting plants and they're working 282 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:13,560 with plants in a way to become spiritual allies and spiritual teachers to help them learn 283 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,720 how to work in the psychedelic realm. 284 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:26,440 So one of the questions I would ask anybody who might be going to an ayahuasca journey 285 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,000 is find out how long the person has been training or studying. 286 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,560 This is just me, but what their commitment within that amount of time to the lineage 287 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:38,560 was. 288 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,680 Because some people are like, oh yeah, I studied for eight years, but they really only did 289 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,200 a journey once a year versus people who studied for eight years and immersed themselves in 290 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,600 learning the lineage, learning their tradition, learning how to actually work and serve the 291 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,000 medicine. 292 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,920 So that's one question I would definitely ask is just like, what's their length of time 293 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,640 and their commitment during that time? 294 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,080 And then people will have different feels as to whether that feels like enough time 295 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:06,800 or not enough time, and I want people can make their own decision on that. 296 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,600 And then another one is just how many participants are going to be there for the amount of people 297 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,320 holding space. 298 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,080 And again, there's no magic number. 299 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:25,440 It does depend on the expertise of those holding the space. 300 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,280 Obviously people who understand the medicine and all that at a greater capacity can hold 301 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,440 more people, but I've heard of some journeys where there's like 30, 50, even 100 people 302 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,480 in a room with like six or seven people holding space, and that can be actually quite dangerous. 303 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,080 So that's why I'm just saying with ayahuasca, there's quite a few qualifiers to me of what 304 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:53,000 I would want to look for, particularly if your intention is to go in and do deeper trauma 305 00:20:53,000 --> 00:21:01,840 work or work on more core aspects of who you are, the space, the container, it's good for 306 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,520 that to be held really well. 307 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,600 So those would be two kind of basic questions I would ask. 308 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,640 And then from there, you'll either know if you're feeling like, yes, I want to go work 309 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,320 with this person or no. 310 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,840 For me, and I'll just name the question of like how long someone's been working with 311 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,720 the medicine, no less than about six to eight years for me, and that's like pretty committed. 312 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:30,080 So before I would feel comfortable working with somebody. 313 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:37,080 And yeah, that's just me, but other people might feel comfortable with less. 314 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,080 Amazing. 315 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,120 Thank you so much for these questions. 316 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:46,440 I truly like, I've only heard people mention ayahuasca, whether books that I've read or 317 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:52,120 listened to or in conversation, and just hearing from you who has so much experience with this, 318 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:53,120 it's really, really helpful. 319 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,280 I appreciate it. 320 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:01,520 And if people are going down to Peru or down traveling, like really doing your due diligence 321 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:09,120 to find out about the centers, like it's become a thing of tourism as well. 322 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:14,840 And we have to be just mindful of that if choosing to go down to Peru. 323 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,320 So just a little, a quick little qualifier there as well. 324 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,320 Thank you for that too. 325 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:19,800 It can be so appropriating. 326 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,080 So yeah, yes. 327 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,080 Yeah. 328 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:31,800 Then just to finish off the question prior, the other two psychedelics, LSD to me is one 329 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,320 that's just kind of fun. 330 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:41,600 There's lots of healing, lots of kind of re-looking at the world, but that's one I truly just 331 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,000 use if I just want to kind of play and have fun. 332 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,300 I've always found LSD is good for that. 333 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:54,440 And then the last one that I'm really passionate about is actually 5-MeO DMT. 334 00:22:54,440 --> 00:23:04,240 And that is a medicine that's really good for people, trauma, depression, anxiety for 335 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:10,160 sure, when dosed correctly. 336 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:17,040 There's a taping dosing model with 5-MeO that I personally think should be the only way 337 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,960 that 5-MeO is dosed. 338 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:28,000 But it really allows people to learn to surrender, learn to really release and relax into such 339 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:37,120 a profound and kind of big experience that 5-MeO provides while also really tapping into 340 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:42,200 the deep, deep spiritual qualities of kind of oneness, wholeness. 341 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,320 Some people say God, depending on kind of your language. 342 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,520 I look at it more, I use the language for 5-MeO. 343 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,780 It taps you into unconditional love. 344 00:23:52,780 --> 00:23:58,160 But what that can do sometimes is it'll show us perhaps where we are not loving either 345 00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,920 ourselves or others. 346 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:06,720 So there's elements of a 5-MeO journey that can be really deconstructive because we can 347 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,860 think we're acting in a certain way that we aren't sometimes. 348 00:24:10,860 --> 00:24:14,520 So yeah, there's lots of interesting things that can come through 5-MeO journey. 349 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,320 But people go to that medicine for all sorts of reasons. 350 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,320 It can be very powerful. 351 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,320 So cool. 352 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,560 I'm really excited to chat a little bit more about that. 353 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:31,160 To kind of take a step back on timeframes, I feel like some of our listeners might be 354 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,200 new to this. 355 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,920 So I think that might be interesting to kind of notate. 356 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:41,800 I know for like, I'm most experienced with LSD and MDMA. 357 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:49,480 And like psilocybin mushrooms are still like, I've only experienced them maybe five times, 358 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,040 four or five times or something like that. 359 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:59,840 And in my experience, like a typical dose of mushrooms, two milligrams, I believe, correct 360 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,640 me if I'm wrong, what a typical dosage of that is. 361 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,880 But that lasts me about three to four hours. 362 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:10,040 And I want to hear like what your sense is for the different medicines and how long those 363 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,000 journeys are to also give some ideas to our listeners. 364 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000 Totally. 365 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000 Yeah, that's a really good question. 366 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:26,880 So I would say for psilocybin mushrooms, nowadays, there's so many different strains that it 367 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,760 does kind of depend on the potency. 368 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,600 So that's one thing as these things become more and more legal, just to be aware of. 369 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,720 So what I'm going to do is more, I'm just going to say kind of a general overarching 370 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,920 place to start would be probably more like two grams, not milligrams. 371 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,320 Yeah, two grams, two to three grams is like a decent intro dose where people should, I 372 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:52,280 shouldn't say should because it does, you still have to surrender into the experience. 373 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,720 But people, most people will be able to feel it without it becoming an overwhelming experience 374 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,320 at about two to three grams. 375 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,160 Yeah, and then there becomes like bigger doses. 376 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,080 And then the other part of your question was... 377 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,320 Yeah, so just for each of the different medicines. 378 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,760 Right, length of time. 379 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:16,760 Yeah. 380 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,760 Yeah. 381 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,760 So psilocybin is usually about three to five hours. 382 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840 If I'm ever holding space for somebody, I usually book at least five to six. 383 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,520 I always book longer than what is going to be needed just so that there's always space. 384 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,120 But yeah, so for psilocybin, it's about three to five hours. 385 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,760 MDMA, people say it's like six. 386 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,760 I always experience it of more like an eight, an eight hour journey. 387 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,520 The earlier in the day you start with MDMA, the longer I feel it takes to ground and come 388 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,520 back down. 389 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,160 Like it is a medicine that does kind of need you to go to sleep before you're going to 390 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,760 feel pretty like sober again, in my personal experience. 391 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:07,880 LSD is about 10 to 12 hours, and then ketamine is about 45 minutes to an hour, hour and a 392 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:16,560 half, depending on the method of delivery, I guess, of working with ketamine. 393 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,200 Am I forgetting one? 394 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,640 Ayahuasca is about five, five to six hours, I would say. 395 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:29,400 MDMA is a little longer depending on the ceremony itself, but usually around... 396 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,920 Well, the whole ceremony might take about eight hours from start to finish, but out 397 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,320 of that time where you're actually under the medicine is about five to six. 398 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:47,800 And then DMTs, just like regular DMT, 5-MeO or NN DMT, they're... 399 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:57,920 NN DMT is about 15, 20 minutes, and then 5-MeO is about 20, 20 minutes to 30-ish, depending 400 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,920 on dose. 401 00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,920 Mm-hmm. 402 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,840 And that's why I wanted to go into the timeframes, because they are so different, right? 403 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:11,560 And I think especially as we learn a little bit more from you about 5-MeO DMT, I haven't 404 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,600 had any experience with this one. 405 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,560 But just hearing...I've heard from some friends that the most intense parts of it are like 406 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,120 five minutes long, but it feels like a lifetime. 407 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:26,400 And so that's what really fascinates me with this one in particular. 408 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:32,040 And I love that this is the one that you are really committed to working with right now, 409 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,800 along with the others, of course. 410 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,360 But I feel like there's just so much more to learn, and this one may be the least talked 411 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,720 about out of the rest of them. 412 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:46,240 I'm thinking about on Netflix, How to Change Your Mind, this one wasn't touched on too 413 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,240 too much. 414 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,920 Of course, it was a little bit, but Peyote was even talked about more. 415 00:28:50,920 --> 00:29:00,560 So yeah, talking about how there's that relation with God for so many people, and how it's 416 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,640 just so intense, but in such a short amount of time, I find to be fascinating. 417 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:13,920 Yeah, it's...5-Me-O is a super fascinating substance. 418 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,960 So it's a big deconstructor. 419 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,640 It really deconstructs what we think about this reality. 420 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,220 So one of the biggest constructs we have in this reality is time itself. 421 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:35,160 So it melts time in this way where you simultaneously feel like it's been no amount of time. 422 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,160 And the longest amount of time you've ever experienced in your life. 423 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,640 And not always like that. 424 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,600 I've had some experiences where I'm fairly aware the whole time. 425 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,040 Dosing is a really big factor with 5-Me-O, like I said earlier. 426 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:57,040 Dosing I think has been misunderstood with this medicine because we have this...this 427 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,640 is going to go on a bit of a tangent, but our culture has this more is better mentality 428 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,140 as an underlying core value. 429 00:30:04,140 --> 00:30:05,700 And that bleeds into everything. 430 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,600 And so we have this idea and then kind of how psychedelics have been talked about generally 431 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,920 is like, oh, you need the heroic dose. 432 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:12,920 You need to break through. 433 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,040 You need like this language of more is better. 434 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,720 You need to like reach this thing. 435 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:25,640 Whereas with 5-Me-O, like I said, I do...like I've learned a method from a mentor of mine 436 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:32,800 who uses vape pens where you literally basically microdose it at first. 437 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,440 Like you have a very, very small amount and then you just slowly increase the strength 438 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,440 of the vape pen. 439 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:44,720 So you walk yourself into what otherwise is often dosed with a pipe and you're getting 440 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,280 a large amount blasting you off at once and is very, very, very challenging on the nervous 441 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,480 system. 442 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,880 Does shoot...does kind of give you that blast off this like massive experience. 443 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,080 But coming back from that massive experience can be really challenging as well. 444 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,400 Whereas when you slowly walk yourself into it and allow yourself to learn how to surrender, 445 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,480 how to calm your nervous system while being in this medicine, you get a little bit longer 446 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:18,940 of total time in the medicine because you're slowly working with it. 447 00:31:18,940 --> 00:31:25,440 And it's just like you teach yourself surrender in a really beautiful way. 448 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,720 So yeah, I feel like I kind of went off on a tangent. 449 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,160 I love that tangent. 450 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,600 That's such a valid point. 451 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,400 And I think it's really needed. 452 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,400 So thank you. 453 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,360 Thank you for sharing that. 454 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:44,000 And then thinking about this, do you have any stories that you could share of like memorable 455 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:50,080 transformative journeys that you've had with 5MeO that are like detailed and can kind of 456 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:56,000 paint us that picture of what it might be like to help us understand like if we might 457 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,800 be interested in that? 458 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:58,800 Sure. 459 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:05,760 One way that people have been describing it lately when working with me is that it basically 460 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,960 moves their mind a little bit out of their body. 461 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,640 So when you can teach yourself to surrender, it's not that like, it's not the traditional 462 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:23,460 way of like an ego death, but it is this kind of sidestepping of the ego's control over 463 00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:24,460 the body. 464 00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:29,280 So the body can just go through whatever the processes that the body needs to go through. 465 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:34,740 Sometimes that's extreme shaking that can be like yelling or screaming. 466 00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:37,760 It can also just be the biggest cathartic release. 467 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,880 It can be rolling around. 468 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,600 It can be all sorts of things because that idea of trauma is stored in the body, which 469 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,040 is like basically a proven theory at this point. 470 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,120 I myself have released lots through the body. 471 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:59,720 Allowing the body to then go through what it needs to do with which our conscious selves 472 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:06,840 prevent due to like socialization and all these other things. 473 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,200 Such amazing things can happen. 474 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:19,200 I have witnessed friends of mine just completely and not through just like one experience. 475 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,000 That's one thing I'm really cautious about with psychedelics that you take an experience 476 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,560 and your whole life changes because it's not that simple. 477 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:30,320 There's a lot of work that goes into it, but who just slowly through what came through 478 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,560 for them, which is hard to describe with 5MeO. 479 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:42,440 It can be simultaneously extraordinarily universal like this understanding that God exists and 480 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,000 like deep knowing of it. 481 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,940 And it can be super deeply personal where it's really helping you work through like 482 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:51,800 a trauma that you maybe didn't even know. 483 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,560 So for me, it actually worked out. 484 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,160 I was working with it quite regularly while I was training, like learning to work with 485 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,800 it. 486 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:05,080 And it kept bringing me back to the same memory I had that basically started this belief that 487 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,000 I wasn't loved by my parents. 488 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,640 And I eventually got to this place where I just had the choice to let the memory go. 489 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,320 Like it was like, you can hold on to this belief. 490 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:21,680 You can hold on to this memory that keeps you in this belief that you weren't loved 491 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,600 or you can just let it go. 492 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,800 And I just had this moment of like, okay, I'm just going to let it go. 493 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,720 And from that moment, I've never had that memory surface. 494 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:36,640 I've never had like that belief has shifted in a way that it's really hard to describe. 495 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,960 It's just like instead of it feeling there, it's like, no, that was never true. 496 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,560 And I consciously worked through that in therapy that it wasn't true, but I couldn't get rid 497 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,880 of like the undergrind, underline residue that it wasn't true. 498 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,480 And that experience really like uprooted that whole underlying residue so that that belief 499 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,480 just doesn't exist in my being anymore. 500 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,480 Wow. 501 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,440 Oh my gosh, that's so impactful. 502 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,560 And thank you for sharing that too, like that you've really tried to work on that in therapy 503 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:06,560 in the past. 504 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,280 And sometimes that works for many things, but for some beliefs that are just so deeply 505 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:17,160 rooted to your core, like from childhood, I think a lot of people have found that in 506 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,600 traditional like talk therapy that it's just not enough sometimes for those ones that are 507 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,680 just so deeply in there. 508 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,680 So that's huge. 509 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:33,320 And I mean, thinking about this, like integration is the whole other part of what must happen 510 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:39,560 after these psychedelic experiences so that they're not just one off experiences and rather 511 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,600 can actually change our lives. 512 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:48,600 So I'd love it if you could share your light on integration, the importance of it, your 513 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,440 tips, anything on the subject that you think would serve. 514 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,560 Sure. 515 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,940 First thing I just want to say there, that's one of the fundamental differences of why 516 00:35:58,940 --> 00:36:03,320 I think psychedelics are such a great tool, particularly when paired with therapy. 517 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,840 Like I did a lot of therapy along with starting with psychedelics in my early twenties. 518 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,280 I now tend to work with coaches and that's a whole own thing. 519 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:20,440 But psychedelics are a tool that help us have the embodied experience that our conscious 520 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,400 mind is working out in therapy. 521 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,320 So if the conscious mind doesn't do the processing and therapy, which is also what some of the 522 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,560 integration work is, it might be actually hard to have that embodied experience otherwise. 523 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,120 So they do work really well in tandem and you want to make sure people do understand 524 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,120 that. 525 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,120 It's not one or the other. 526 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,920 It's like use all the modalities you can for a problem to get it fixed as quickly as you 527 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,920 can. 528 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,760 You know, it's like psychedelics are just a catalyst for that. 529 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,680 So I just want to make sure that that's kind of clear. 530 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,680 And then coming to integration. 531 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,760 Integration. 532 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,880 So the way I'm actually thinking about it these days, which is taking me kind of a long 533 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:01,360 time, is integration is actually the process that everyone is on period in and out of psychedelics. 534 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:08,360 We are on a process of integration, of taking our lived experiences and working forward 535 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,920 in a way that is effective for us. 536 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,380 Integration fundamentally is connecting things that are different. 537 00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:17,960 We're doing that all the time in life. 538 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:23,040 We are taking a new information and doing something with it, integrating it. 539 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,380 And so I actually see integration as a process of life that psychedelics come in and provide 540 00:37:27,380 --> 00:37:33,760 a tool to help us in that integrative process that we're consistently on. 541 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,640 So I actually look at integration a little bit differently these days because it's something 542 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,800 that we're doing, whether or not we're using psychedelics. 543 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,000 In terms of psychedelic integration, the reason why that is stressed is because psychedelics 544 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,200 come in and they provide a plethora sometimes of a bunch of new information all at the same 545 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,200 time. 546 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,840 And it becomes a very diligent and intentional process of taking whatever information that 547 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,520 can be either deeply personal or deeply spiritual. 548 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,660 It can totally change the way that we are interacting with our own concept of our place 549 00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:09,200 in the universe. 550 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,340 It's taking whatever is given to us and restructuring how we relate to the world based on what was 551 00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:18,440 given to us in a way that works for us. 552 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,880 So that means sometimes we have to let go of things that came in the psychedelic experience. 553 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,880 You cannot take everything in a psychedelic experience as 100% truth. 554 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,800 There's metaphor, there's things, and sometimes you have to let go of those and sometimes 555 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,400 you have to let go of old beliefs and old stories that you're holding onto to assimilate 556 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,000 and move into whatever the psychedelic gave you. 557 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,920 So it's figuring out what that is for each individual, which sometimes can be an easy 558 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:45,920 process. 559 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,620 I don't want to make it sound like it's this hard thing. 560 00:38:47,620 --> 00:38:50,800 That can actually be a decently easy process sometimes. 561 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,040 Sometimes it can be challenging and quite a lot for someone to have to work through. 562 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:03,280 I love that you said that because in the past I've had some super profound experiences with 563 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:08,920 psychedelics and afterwards or even during sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, that was huge. 564 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,960 Oh my gosh, this was life changing. 565 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,080 And then I'll start getting overwhelmed of all of the takeaways that I need to remember 566 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,400 from this one journey. 567 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,960 And then I'll start to like, you know, all of these beautiful things will then turn into 568 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:24,960 an anxiety. 569 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:31,000 And so it's kind of either something that I'll do sometimes is I'll either write it down 570 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,120 in the moment if I feel like it's something I really, really want to hold onto, but don't 571 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:40,080 want to stress about forgetting, whether it's in a notebook or my phone, which I don't like 572 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,400 having my phone on me, but sometimes my notes up on my phone is just my easiest go to. 573 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,400 But yeah, just like making it simple. 574 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,400 I love that. 575 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,320 Like what are the one or two big things from this experience that I want to hold onto and 576 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,560 maybe journal on afterwards and really sit with? 577 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:58,560 Yeah. 578 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,220 And I think that that's, I have people who have said like, oh, I can't remember everything 579 00:40:03,220 --> 00:40:04,220 in my journey. 580 00:40:04,220 --> 00:40:06,360 And it's like, you can't remember everything in your life. 581 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,360 Like that's okay. 582 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,640 Like just let it go. 583 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,080 The things that are most pertinent for you that are really needed will stick with us. 584 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,440 You know, that's life. 585 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,180 And if people continue to work with psychedelics, like if it becomes like for me, it's an integrated 586 00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:21,800 part of my life. 587 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,160 If people choose to do that, and it's on and off, I'm not consistently working with psychedelics, 588 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,340 but I do use them as tools. 589 00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:32,800 If people choose to do that, the threads come back. 590 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,520 Like something that came to you in your first journey all of a sudden pops up again in your 591 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,960 fifth journey because it's important for you to work through. 592 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,800 So it's also surrendering and letting go to just what the process of like learning and 593 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,760 integrating and growing, which is not a linear process in and of itself. 594 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,840 So the psychedelic process is not linear. 595 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,240 Man, I have chills that hits. 596 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:55,240 Thank you. 597 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:57,240 Thank you so much. 598 00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:04,920 Oh my gosh, you've given me so much to think about, reflect on and kind of future ID8 on 599 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,080 where I want to go next in my path. 600 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,080 So thank you. 601 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,480 I know our listeners will gleam a lot from this too. 602 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,160 And how can we support you? 603 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,160 How can our listeners connect with you going forward if they are feeling called to? 604 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,160 Beautiful. 605 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,160 Thank you for that question. 606 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,120 And yeah, I'm happy. 607 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,320 I love talking about this stuff. 608 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,440 So anytime, anytime you want to dive into psychedelics, I'm here. 609 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,800 So yeah, listeners can go. 610 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,800 I don't have social media. 611 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,920 I don't really have social media. 612 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:44,160 I am, you can go to my website, rawproject.org or just email me, Christine, K-R-Y-S-T-I-N-E 613 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,160 at rawproject.org. 614 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,080 I like email. 615 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,080 And then our community, the whole human embodiment network. 616 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:58,440 It's a network of little communities of people getting together to talk about this stuff. 617 00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:59,620 There's like different sharing circles. 618 00:41:59,620 --> 00:42:04,320 There's all different things in that, that I am, I lead some things in it, but I also 619 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,920 am just a participant of people who are growing together and learning how to embody and be 620 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,040 our human selves. 621 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,880 So those are the places where people can find me. 622 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,360 And thank you so much, Kat, for asking me to be here and having me on today. 623 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,760 I really appreciate it. 624 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:19,760 Absolutely, Christine. 625 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,840 It was such a joy. 626 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,040 You're such a gift and such a wealth of knowledge. 627 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,560 So thank you, thank you, thank you. 628 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:33,100 And to our listeners, if you have any comments, questions, feedback, praise that you want 629 00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:38,780 for this episode for Christine, you can also get in touch with us on Instagram at Awaken 630 00:42:38,780 --> 00:42:40,240 Together podcast. 631 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:44,440 We're here for you and we love to hear your feedback to show your support. 632 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:49,320 We'd love it if you follow, rate and review this and other episodes of the podcast and 633 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,320 we'll see you all next week. 634 00:42:50,320 --> 00:43:02,320 です