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Hello everyone and welcome to the awaken together podcast.

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I am Jen and today it will just be me.

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I just got to listen to Kat's episode that we had last week going into holistic health

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where she was able to share all her insights one on one.

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And today I'm going to just be sharing some of my own thoughts around perspective.

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So we're going to really elaborate and talk about thinker versus feeler, which is one

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of my favorite conversation topics.

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I think I've definitely hinted and poked at this in various episodes that we've had throughout

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our podcast seasons.

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But it's going to be nice to sit in this space and talk this out.

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As I was kind of sitting with all the different facets of this conversation topic, one quote

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that really comes to mind is we make all sorts of assumptions because we don't have the courage

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to ask questions.

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When I first heard that quote, I feel like it hit me super deep.

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And as a human who's deeply in love with self analysis tools such as the Enneagram and astrology

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and human design and love language and all these other different tests that you can take

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to kind of pinpoint why you do what you do, why you interact with people in certain ways,

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where your strengths are, where things can be more of a challenge.

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I am always on this endless quest to solve the puzzle piece that is Jen and solve the

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puzzle piece of the people around me.

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I think this is really due to my neurodivergencies.

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So being on the spectrum and having kind of a different way that I relate to emotions

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and thoughts than other people.

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But it's not just my neurodivergencies.

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This is something we all can personally deal with in figuring out how to mesh our perspective

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with the perspectives of the people around us, how we relate to one another, how we relate

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to ourselves.

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This all comes down to kind of combining all these self analysis tools and then also really

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looking even deeper to where a person is coming from and why and how it all fits and relates

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together.

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I wanted to talk about thinker versus feeler as our main point.

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And I'm going to kind of share what each one means to me.

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So when I first learned about masculine and feminine energy, which we've had an episode

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on the podcast about, and when I've also thought of young versus yen energy, I feel like this

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really sits with the dualities that we inherently find in nature.

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Death and rebirth, darkness, light.

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There is constant polarities that we see coexisting together.

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I think it's a huge part of our essence as beings.

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And I really love the embodiment of maybe having more of a predisposition to more masculine

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or young energy and more feminine or yen energy.

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But I also think from a practical sense, thinker kind of sits in the same sort of realm as the

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masculine or the young energy.

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And I feel like feeler sort of sits nicely with yen energy and feminine kind of embodiment.

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And this is really a debatable point of looking at what do we start with versus how much of

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the opposite do we add in individually versus find within each other.

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So for me, under thinker, we're going to use the umbrella term of thinker versus feeler

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for this conversation.

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And thinker is more cerebral to me.

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A thought hits before a feeling.

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Thinker is more zooming out of a situation and seeing it kind of more in a bigger picture

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essence.

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I also feel like thinker is kind of moving in a more linear pattern.

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This equals this.

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And it's kind of maybe a little bit more in that black and white thinking.

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And I feel like feeler embodies this cyclical nature, this ebb and flow, this more emotional

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charge that emotions hit way before a thought comes to the surface before you really know

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what to say about what you are feeling.

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I also feel like feelers will really ebb and flow through a much larger emotional terrain

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than someone that inherently thinks before they feel.

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And so this conversation topic has come up so much in my marriage and in my interpersonal

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relationships because as me and Kat said in our masculine and feminine episode, I fall

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really heavy into this more masculine and thinker mentality.

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And I think I've been this way most of my life where I always was able to process the

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world with thoughts and then feelings would usually hit me way later.

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The more I thought about something, the more feelings would tend to come up to the surface.

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But I also feel like the toxic side of falling into kind of a more thinker disposition was

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a deep repression that would happen where I would just move on so quickly with my thoughts

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that I would completely miss the emotional charge of an experience, which to me took

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a long time to kind of break the pattern of always writing something off with higher thoughts

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and learning to embody this polar feeler side, which even with a lot of embodiment, which

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has looked like creating spaces to scream, creating, listening to songs to create more

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of an emotional experience, a lot of movement practices for me, like more sensual movements,

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things that get me like in my body has helped me get out of that like thinking side of things.

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But in the opposite, I will use my husband as the example for this.

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He so embodies kind of a more feminine and feeler essence at his nature.

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So for him, as he's moving through life, his experiences always hit as a feeling before

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he can really sit through what to think about them.

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If he goes through like a hard day at work, he is feeling that deeply to the core.

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He has a hard time to be able to write that off as something else without some time to

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sit in the like, emotions that are behind it.

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And I have thought a lot, you know, I can only really speak for my thinker side that

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has had to deeply learn to embody elements of feeler, which for me, I feel like has created

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a lot more balance in my life where I feel more present and more whole.

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I feel like I can't always speak for the fact that people that have these big emotional

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landscapes and feel things so deeply walking into a balance of thinker or masculine is

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not something I feel like I can fully give a voice to, but in the practicality of learning

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about feminine and masculine energy through like a coaching lens, there are tools and

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helping you to create thoughts like sitting with the feelings first, but then making sure

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that you don't move away from the feeling really fast.

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You take time to create thoughts around what happened to sit with journaling or writing

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or talking it out, even if the moment has passed so that you are actually integrating

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thought with feeling, even if feeling always inherently comes first.

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So hopefully that kind of paints a little bit of a picture of the two, but I want to

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share a little bit more experience from my thinker side that has been with me all along.

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I think it's kind of rare, more rare with our kind of gender roles and societal standards

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that have been in place that we are slowly shoving to the ground, which hallelujah, we're

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doing that.

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It's so great to see, but I think traditionally someone that's in the body and the look that

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I am falling into a more masculine predisposition is not as common.

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And so I think, I think a lot of times the female body would be written off as being

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emotional.

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The divine feminine would be written off as these heavy feelers and I don't have that.

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And this is somewhat because I'm on the spectrum and feelings don't really hit me in the exact

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same way, but I deeply show my connection to feeling with thinking.

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And so for me, when someone is, I'm in a, maybe an altercation and a huge amount of

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feelings come out with the person that I'm interacting with to me, I will not be able

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to sit with the emotions and necessarily mirror and embody them with you.

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I think I can sit in the room and phase and I've learned to hold space without giving

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advice, which was freaking huge to be able to sit and know that I don't have to change

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the feeling or interact with the feeling that I can just be with.

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It was a huge step for me, but I also think I don't mirror the emotion.

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So it's hard for me to sit and cry with someone or be like, Oh, that irritates me to no end.

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I hate that person with you.

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That doesn't always land with me.

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It doesn't always not, but it definitely is harder for me to fully sit and embody the

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emotional undercurrents with another person who's more emotionally charged up.

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But I think I have really learned to value that my way of processing and seeing the world

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is still deeply caring.

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I used to be kind of, I think I used to mask a lot either to fake feeling or to just retreat

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and not even be in those spaces with people because of my perspective, not feeling like

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it was right, even though it was authentic.

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I think I had a lot of self-consciousness around it.

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Now I realize that I love people in a way that maybe is unique and I just have to kind

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of learn to average advertise myself better.

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So to me, when I feel that I think of a lot of tools around what the person is feeling,

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it's like in my head, I see all the different books that I have read, all the different

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systems that I've seen help other people.

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I am a deep researcher.

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I am a deep, I am so into knowledge and learning that so many things come to mind, but it's

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not always the appropriate time to bring all of that up right in the heat of something

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that's charged for the feeler person.

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But it also doesn't mean that I'm not understanding or that I don't know.

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I'm just going to approach that in my own way.

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So if you are listening and you think you fall into kind of a more masculine and thinking

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sort of mentality right off the get-go, I think it's really important to learn the art

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of holding space.

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We have done an episode on this as well, and that is sitting with a person saying, what

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do you need from me?

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What can I do to help you now?

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Having the right questions so that you are not shoving your perspective and way of thinking

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onto the other person right away, just because you can see a bigger picture, just because

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you feel like you know the exact advice to give somebody doesn't mean that the timing

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is always appropriate when it's in the heat of the moment.

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That does not make you wrong.

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That does not make them wrong.

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It makes you both humans that have different perspectives on how they approach a situation.

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And I think on the flip side for feelers, I've thought of this a lot as people.

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I think I'm very drawn to very emotional people.

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I think that really mirrors what I am lacking.

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And I think it's really beautiful.

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Even though I don't always embody the same, it doesn't come from a judgmental place.

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I think it's beautiful.

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I think for you guys, it can feel super rushed to come up with words for it.

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You can feel so silly to be feeling something like to be crying or yelling or really being

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in it and not knowing how to put it into words.

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And I think that pressure to voice it is coming from a society that hasn't really given a

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lot of space and examples of how to properly manage emotions.

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I think to say like, I am feeling something right now and honestly, it doesn't have words

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is huge to be able to say.

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It helps the person in front of you know that you need processing time or even to say I

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need processing time, this doesn't have anything more than what it is currently.

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Like give me space or just sit with me or be with me.

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We can talk about this later.

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But I think also because feelings are so fleeting and they can come and go doesn't make them

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not real and so vivid when they're in your body and coming out.

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But I also think if you move on from the feeling and you never go back and want to discuss

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it later, it can make it really hard for the people around you to know how to handle it

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in a way that's going to feel better.

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I think that has been the hard part with being around kind of opposite perspectives to me

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is not knowing how I can manage it the correct way.

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And I think it is a lot of it like once the feeling has passed, you're on to a new experience.

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It can be hard to want to resurface something that just felt so deeply painful or deeply

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just deep in general, that it's hard to want to go back and put words on top of it.

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But I think that's where really the embodiment of both worlds can happen.

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So I think we're in this constant world of different processing systems being at play.

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And I think the lack of communication can write it off to that person doesn't get me

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or they're never going to understand what I'm thinking.

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They're never going to understand what I'm feeling.

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When in reality, they'll work to figure out your inherent perspective differences to where

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you can land on strategies that work for both varied perspectives, I think is actually the

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work of being a human.

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I think that's where we can get fulfilling connection and not feel that deep sense of

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loneliness.

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I remember the deep cries I used to have from feeling so lonely, feeling like no one was

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ever going to understand the world that I was living in.

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But also in retrospect and reflection, I was never really putting the work in to help advertise

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myself or help others understand my perspective.

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I think I was crying for something to be inherently just understood without work, which wasn't

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really fair.

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And I think we can get into that a lot because just as we're not really shown, I feel like

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feelers especially are not shown a terrain for how to manage feelings appropriately.

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We have a very masculine and thinker based world we've created of this equals this and

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this equals this when in reality, there's much more vivid terrain of human experiences

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than what could ever fit into a linear box.

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I also don't think we're shown the example in real time on how to communicate these inherent

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differences with each other.

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And that's where I feel like these retreat experiences and workshops and being in spaces

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with people that have lived very different lives from me has meant the world to changing

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what my preconceived notions were.

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And to stop myself from quickly labeling things as being what they are and being more open

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to, I guess, a curiosity for maybe what the person, how the person thinks, why they do

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what they do, understanding that I can't make assumptions on them based on these really

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quick write offs that that is not valid and fair.

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And it really doesn't lead to the connection I was deeply craving.

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So I think in this new paradigm we're trying to walk into where there's just more authentic

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connection and inauthenticity is slowly falling away.

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I think the internet is showing us tons of different perspectives and ways of thinking,

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which can help it.

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I think it can help depersonalize a lot of the misunderstandings we maybe have in our

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own immediate bubble because we're able to see so many inherent differences.

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That wasn't always something I feel like society had without the internet.

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But I also think from a feeler observation, so from me really watching my people that

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I have around me that have taught me so much about pausing and feeling things so that I'm

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not falling into repression patterns, I think that a lot of times these deep, loud emotions

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are really coming from a craving to be seen and just to have people not shoving your emotions

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away so quickly.

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And the world is moving at a pace that doesn't really make that safe.

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And I think eventually it comes to a head where it just like has to come out and usually

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comes out in such a big way.

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And I think that's actually freaking beautiful.

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To be honest, I feel like people are so quick to say I'm sorry when they're crying or having

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this emotional output when I'm like, this is so beautiful and raw.

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And thank you for showing this.

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I also feel like people that inherently have a feeler disposition are really showing the

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side effects of a world that inherently is moving too quickly.

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There's not enough space for those feelings to live and have a voice.

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And I think society has made it to where people that feel deeply end up looking a certain

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way and under a certain light when I believe that if the world actually was programmed

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to move slower, these big emotions wouldn't hold so much weight behind them.

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I feel like the weight is because you guys can feel the undercurrents of what isn't right.

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And we should be having enough time to sit with each other without having to think like

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I don't really have the time for this.

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Like I have stuff to do.

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I have bills to pay.

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Like we have to go into this practical thinking mentality when someone is requiring too much

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time, which is so disgusting to me that we have a society that has to function and move

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that way.

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And then another side of this that I really want to paint and hopefully you guys are with

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me still lots of thoughts and thank you for listening to them.

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Welcome to Jen's thinker brain for real, but I truly think that the world of thinker versus

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feeler is meant to be a mesh and embodied together.

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And we, we inherently crave what we are lacking in ourselves, but I do think there are action

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steps within our own body that we can seek out some of what we're lacking.

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So that we always don't have to have the polar from our external environment.

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I do think that there's this individualistic thinking we are having to move from because

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collectively we're not getting what we are craving.

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And I do think a lot of this work kind of irons itself out in community.

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I think we start to understand the balance of both, but we're having to think as individuals

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because that is kind of how society has set us up.

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But I think we have to be very careful to not feel from our pre written assumptions

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that we cannot tell people what our own inherent needs are.

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So an example of this, we just came off of the witch retreat being cat hosted in St.

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Augustine and one of the girls that came on the retreat, I had this beautiful heart to

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heart with about how she gives me very clear boundaries on when I am too much for her.

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So she is someone I've worked with and known outside of their retreat space, but she will

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say to me right now, this is a lot for me.

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I can't really do this conversation.

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Maybe we can come back to it, but I you're too loud right now.

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That's too much for me and we'll remove herself from the situation.

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Now I feel like a lot of people are very scared to talk to me this way because they're worried

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they're going to hurt my feelings.

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Well guess what?

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Feelings are not my main perspective.

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So hearing that boundary for me means a lot.

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And maybe little Jen at one point, like I remember people telling me that I'm loud and

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that I'm too much.

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And it inherently had some wounds behind it before I had embodied a deep sense of self

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acceptance and self love.

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But a lot of why I am the way I am comes from a much bigger story than, oh God, they hate

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me like I this sucks.

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Like what the hell is wrong with me?

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And all of these like inner critic voices that would get loud with someone expressing

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their needs.

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That's when you really don't know how to manage other people's boundaries.

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And I think that's can be a huge flag to where some of your healing work can be geared up

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to if you are offended by hearing someone else say what they are needing from you.

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You got to learn to sit with that and explore that and see where it's coming from.

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But I think there is tactful ways we can communicate being versus being like, oh, Jennifer, you're

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so loud.

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I cannot stand it.

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Like please versus this is too much for me.

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This is a lot.

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I need a break.

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When you can make the experience about what your needs are versus just saying something,

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saying something to avoid the vulnerability of saying your own needs and just to someone

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else like calling out what you're not liking about them.

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You have to watch that can obviously be a trigger for someone.

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These are communication differences that can be huge.

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Like so far a feeler perspective, let's talk one out.

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You're feeling a lot.

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And then maybe someone goes into advice right away.

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Like they see you crying and then they immediately are like, you know, maybe that this is something,

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you know, just coming up with a way to justify your crime.

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Maybe for you, what you really were needing there was just a good freaking cry without

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someone running away from it or labeling it.

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So maybe you learn to say in this moment, I just need to cry.

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That is a beautiful way to communicate that, that will get the person inherently across

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from you to understand.

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And then we can learn to ask questions to fill in how both worlds can coexist together

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later.

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I hope this is making sense and how it can tie into boundaries.

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I think there is a lot that we can trigger in each other, maybe because it's, it's harboring

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around a wound or maybe it has to do with some of our sensory landscape.

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I am ADHD.

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I am a fidgeting, loud, busy moving mess all the time for someone who has already had an

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overwhelming day.

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I might come off like the last thing they need to be around and I can inherently receive

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that feedback without knowing that that means that I have something to change or do.

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So this is obviously very situation to situation based, but going back to the quote that I

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said at the very beginning, we make all sorts of assumptions because we don't have the courage

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to ask questions.

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And adding onto that, maybe we don't have the courage to say what our needs really are

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or say, I don't know what my need is right now, but what is happening isn't quite landing

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well.

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Beautiful.

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Thank you for saying that.

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There's so many lines that I have heard other people say to me that have just felt so good.

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An example of this is me and Kat process things very differently, even though we both come

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from a very masculine, Aquarius versus Gemini place.

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I love when Kat will ask me, can you give me more examples of what you're saying or

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can you elaborate on that a little deeper?

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I have really tried to get good about journaling what people say to me that gives me space

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to feel safer.

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I try to extend those words out to other people and come up with my own things.

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So even sharing what people in your inner circle have said to you that have brought

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you a lot of peace can be a really beautiful way to reflect on this and think what lines

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can I say to keep advertising myself better, to have my needs inherently met more and to

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create more connection and depth in the relationships that are around me.

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So I think this conversation has so many little sides and pieces to it, but I have really

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sat with a notebook of my Enneagram type and what that meant to me, what my love language

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is and what that means to me, what my astrology birth chart says and what that means to me

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all to create a sense of self love and understanding that the inner child inside of me had wounds

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that really hurt growing up and every year of my life that I have lived has taught me

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new wounds and new strengths that I have to live and embody and move through and reevaluate

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from.

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But these are all tools that have helped me depersonalize that when someone is misunderstanding

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me it doesn't have to be because I was wrong and it doesn't have to be because I was right

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either.

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It can be a much bigger spectrum than we are good for each other, we are bad for each other.

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This is a relationship that's fueling me versus this is a relationship that I need to cut

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out of my life.

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I think when we label things that black and white so quickly we forget to inherently weave

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in our perspectives and that is a freaking amazing thing to do and that's how I think

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we're actually going to shift and change things for the collective at large instead of casting

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someone out because they keep not being able to integrate correctly into our lives we figure

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out maybe with curiosity is there another perspective and way to look at that where

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that person's needs and my needs can maybe coexist.

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And maybe the answer still ends up being no but it comes from a much more thorough place

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of looking into it than a quick assumption and write off because we don't feel like we

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have the time or we don't want to be hurt so we just avoid this like deeper work altogether.

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Hope this lands, hope this makes sense and I would highly recommend that if you have

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never gotten the tools on this stuff this is all a completely new way of thinking for

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you.

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That you set with some of these self analysis tools sit with pondering what feels good to

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you when people say what triggers you when other people are speaking and talking what

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stuff inherently makes you feel like you don't have a voice what stuff really gives you a

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voice sitting with some of these journaling prompts and even thinking of it through various

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relationships in your life I think can give you so much feedback to start working from

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as we unpack communication we start sharing different ways to do it which has really never

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been put out in media and movies and books really I think in a healthy way.

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I think we're walking a new terrain of this stuff so I'm proud of you I see you I love

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you thank you for unpacking this deeper healing journey so that we can add connection and

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love into our lives.

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Thank you for being here I will see you next week for another episode of Awaken Together.

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Bye.