Hello everyone and welcome to the awaken together podcast.
I am Jen and today it will just be me.
I just got to listen to Kat's episode that we had last week going into holistic health
where she was able to share all her insights one on one.
And today I'm going to just be sharing some of my own thoughts around perspective.
So we're going to really elaborate and talk about thinker versus feeler, which is one
of my favorite conversation topics.
I think I've definitely hinted and poked at this in various episodes that we've had throughout
our podcast seasons.
But it's going to be nice to sit in this space and talk this out.
As I was kind of sitting with all the different facets of this conversation topic, one quote
that really comes to mind is we make all sorts of assumptions because we don't have the courage
to ask questions.
When I first heard that quote, I feel like it hit me super deep.
And as a human who's deeply in love with self analysis tools such as the Enneagram and astrology
and human design and love language and all these other different tests that you can take
to kind of pinpoint why you do what you do, why you interact with people in certain ways,
where your strengths are, where things can be more of a challenge.
I am always on this endless quest to solve the puzzle piece that is Jen and solve the
puzzle piece of the people around me.
I think this is really due to my neurodivergencies.
So being on the spectrum and having kind of a different way that I relate to emotions
and thoughts than other people.
But it's not just my neurodivergencies.
This is something we all can personally deal with in figuring out how to mesh our perspective
with the perspectives of the people around us, how we relate to one another, how we relate
to ourselves.
This all comes down to kind of combining all these self analysis tools and then also really
looking even deeper to where a person is coming from and why and how it all fits and relates
together.
I wanted to talk about thinker versus feeler as our main point.
And I'm going to kind of share what each one means to me.
So when I first learned about masculine and feminine energy, which we've had an episode
on the podcast about, and when I've also thought of young versus yen energy, I feel like this
really sits with the dualities that we inherently find in nature.
Death and rebirth, darkness, light.
There is constant polarities that we see coexisting together.
I think it's a huge part of our essence as beings.
And I really love the embodiment of maybe having more of a predisposition to more masculine
or young energy and more feminine or yen energy.
But I also think from a practical sense, thinker kind of sits in the same sort of realm as the
masculine or the young energy.
And I feel like feeler sort of sits nicely with yen energy and feminine kind of embodiment.
And this is really a debatable point of looking at what do we start with versus how much of
the opposite do we add in individually versus find within each other.
So for me, under thinker, we're going to use the umbrella term of thinker versus feeler
for this conversation.
And thinker is more cerebral to me.
A thought hits before a feeling.
Thinker is more zooming out of a situation and seeing it kind of more in a bigger picture
essence.
I also feel like thinker is kind of moving in a more linear pattern.
This equals this.
And it's kind of maybe a little bit more in that black and white thinking.
And I feel like feeler embodies this cyclical nature, this ebb and flow, this more emotional
charge that emotions hit way before a thought comes to the surface before you really know
what to say about what you are feeling.
I also feel like feelers will really ebb and flow through a much larger emotional terrain
than someone that inherently thinks before they feel.
And so this conversation topic has come up so much in my marriage and in my interpersonal
relationships because as me and Kat said in our masculine and feminine episode, I fall
really heavy into this more masculine and thinker mentality.
And I think I've been this way most of my life where I always was able to process the
world with thoughts and then feelings would usually hit me way later.
The more I thought about something, the more feelings would tend to come up to the surface.
But I also feel like the toxic side of falling into kind of a more thinker disposition was
a deep repression that would happen where I would just move on so quickly with my thoughts
that I would completely miss the emotional charge of an experience, which to me took
a long time to kind of break the pattern of always writing something off with higher thoughts
and learning to embody this polar feeler side, which even with a lot of embodiment, which
has looked like creating spaces to scream, creating, listening to songs to create more
of an emotional experience, a lot of movement practices for me, like more sensual movements,
things that get me like in my body has helped me get out of that like thinking side of things.
But in the opposite, I will use my husband as the example for this.
He so embodies kind of a more feminine and feeler essence at his nature.
So for him, as he's moving through life, his experiences always hit as a feeling before
he can really sit through what to think about them.
If he goes through like a hard day at work, he is feeling that deeply to the core.
He has a hard time to be able to write that off as something else without some time to
sit in the like, emotions that are behind it.
And I have thought a lot, you know, I can only really speak for my thinker side that
has had to deeply learn to embody elements of feeler, which for me, I feel like has created
a lot more balance in my life where I feel more present and more whole.
I feel like I can't always speak for the fact that people that have these big emotional
landscapes and feel things so deeply walking into a balance of thinker or masculine is
not something I feel like I can fully give a voice to, but in the practicality of learning
about feminine and masculine energy through like a coaching lens, there are tools and
helping you to create thoughts like sitting with the feelings first, but then making sure
that you don't move away from the feeling really fast.
You take time to create thoughts around what happened to sit with journaling or writing
or talking it out, even if the moment has passed so that you are actually integrating
thought with feeling, even if feeling always inherently comes first.
So hopefully that kind of paints a little bit of a picture of the two, but I want to
share a little bit more experience from my thinker side that has been with me all along.
I think it's kind of rare, more rare with our kind of gender roles and societal standards
that have been in place that we are slowly shoving to the ground, which hallelujah, we're
doing that.
It's so great to see, but I think traditionally someone that's in the body and the look that
I am falling into a more masculine predisposition is not as common.
And so I think, I think a lot of times the female body would be written off as being
emotional.
The divine feminine would be written off as these heavy feelers and I don't have that.
And this is somewhat because I'm on the spectrum and feelings don't really hit me in the exact
same way, but I deeply show my connection to feeling with thinking.
And so for me, when someone is, I'm in a, maybe an altercation and a huge amount of
feelings come out with the person that I'm interacting with to me, I will not be able
to sit with the emotions and necessarily mirror and embody them with you.
I think I can sit in the room and phase and I've learned to hold space without giving
advice, which was freaking huge to be able to sit and know that I don't have to change
the feeling or interact with the feeling that I can just be with.
It was a huge step for me, but I also think I don't mirror the emotion.
So it's hard for me to sit and cry with someone or be like, Oh, that irritates me to no end.
I hate that person with you.
That doesn't always land with me.
It doesn't always not, but it definitely is harder for me to fully sit and embody the
emotional undercurrents with another person who's more emotionally charged up.
But I think I have really learned to value that my way of processing and seeing the world
is still deeply caring.
I used to be kind of, I think I used to mask a lot either to fake feeling or to just retreat
and not even be in those spaces with people because of my perspective, not feeling like
it was right, even though it was authentic.
I think I had a lot of self-consciousness around it.
Now I realize that I love people in a way that maybe is unique and I just have to kind
of learn to average advertise myself better.
So to me, when I feel that I think of a lot of tools around what the person is feeling,
it's like in my head, I see all the different books that I have read, all the different
systems that I've seen help other people.
I am a deep researcher.
I am a deep, I am so into knowledge and learning that so many things come to mind, but it's
not always the appropriate time to bring all of that up right in the heat of something
that's charged for the feeler person.
But it also doesn't mean that I'm not understanding or that I don't know.
I'm just going to approach that in my own way.
So if you are listening and you think you fall into kind of a more masculine and thinking
sort of mentality right off the get-go, I think it's really important to learn the art
of holding space.
We have done an episode on this as well, and that is sitting with a person saying, what
do you need from me?
What can I do to help you now?
Having the right questions so that you are not shoving your perspective and way of thinking
onto the other person right away, just because you can see a bigger picture, just because
you feel like you know the exact advice to give somebody doesn't mean that the timing
is always appropriate when it's in the heat of the moment.
That does not make you wrong.
That does not make them wrong.
It makes you both humans that have different perspectives on how they approach a situation.
And I think on the flip side for feelers, I've thought of this a lot as people.
I think I'm very drawn to very emotional people.
I think that really mirrors what I am lacking.
And I think it's really beautiful.
Even though I don't always embody the same, it doesn't come from a judgmental place.
I think it's beautiful.
I think for you guys, it can feel super rushed to come up with words for it.
You can feel so silly to be feeling something like to be crying or yelling or really being
in it and not knowing how to put it into words.
And I think that pressure to voice it is coming from a society that hasn't really given a
lot of space and examples of how to properly manage emotions.
I think to say like, I am feeling something right now and honestly, it doesn't have words
is huge to be able to say.
It helps the person in front of you know that you need processing time or even to say I
need processing time, this doesn't have anything more than what it is currently.
Like give me space or just sit with me or be with me.
We can talk about this later.
But I think also because feelings are so fleeting and they can come and go doesn't make them
not real and so vivid when they're in your body and coming out.
But I also think if you move on from the feeling and you never go back and want to discuss
it later, it can make it really hard for the people around you to know how to handle it
in a way that's going to feel better.
I think that has been the hard part with being around kind of opposite perspectives to me
is not knowing how I can manage it the correct way.
And I think it is a lot of it like once the feeling has passed, you're on to a new experience.
It can be hard to want to resurface something that just felt so deeply painful or deeply
just deep in general, that it's hard to want to go back and put words on top of it.
But I think that's where really the embodiment of both worlds can happen.
So I think we're in this constant world of different processing systems being at play.
And I think the lack of communication can write it off to that person doesn't get me
or they're never going to understand what I'm thinking.
They're never going to understand what I'm feeling.
When in reality, they'll work to figure out your inherent perspective differences to where
you can land on strategies that work for both varied perspectives, I think is actually the
work of being a human.
I think that's where we can get fulfilling connection and not feel that deep sense of
loneliness.
I remember the deep cries I used to have from feeling so lonely, feeling like no one was
ever going to understand the world that I was living in.
But also in retrospect and reflection, I was never really putting the work in to help advertise
myself or help others understand my perspective.
I think I was crying for something to be inherently just understood without work, which wasn't
really fair.
And I think we can get into that a lot because just as we're not really shown, I feel like
feelers especially are not shown a terrain for how to manage feelings appropriately.
We have a very masculine and thinker based world we've created of this equals this and
this equals this when in reality, there's much more vivid terrain of human experiences
than what could ever fit into a linear box.
I also don't think we're shown the example in real time on how to communicate these inherent
differences with each other.
And that's where I feel like these retreat experiences and workshops and being in spaces
with people that have lived very different lives from me has meant the world to changing
what my preconceived notions were.
And to stop myself from quickly labeling things as being what they are and being more open
to, I guess, a curiosity for maybe what the person, how the person thinks, why they do
what they do, understanding that I can't make assumptions on them based on these really
quick write offs that that is not valid and fair.
And it really doesn't lead to the connection I was deeply craving.
So I think in this new paradigm we're trying to walk into where there's just more authentic
connection and inauthenticity is slowly falling away.
I think the internet is showing us tons of different perspectives and ways of thinking,
which can help it.
I think it can help depersonalize a lot of the misunderstandings we maybe have in our
own immediate bubble because we're able to see so many inherent differences.
That wasn't always something I feel like society had without the internet.
But I also think from a feeler observation, so from me really watching my people that
I have around me that have taught me so much about pausing and feeling things so that I'm
not falling into repression patterns, I think that a lot of times these deep, loud emotions
are really coming from a craving to be seen and just to have people not shoving your emotions
away so quickly.
And the world is moving at a pace that doesn't really make that safe.
And I think eventually it comes to a head where it just like has to come out and usually
comes out in such a big way.
And I think that's actually freaking beautiful.
To be honest, I feel like people are so quick to say I'm sorry when they're crying or having
this emotional output when I'm like, this is so beautiful and raw.
And thank you for showing this.
I also feel like people that inherently have a feeler disposition are really showing the
side effects of a world that inherently is moving too quickly.
There's not enough space for those feelings to live and have a voice.
And I think society has made it to where people that feel deeply end up looking a certain
way and under a certain light when I believe that if the world actually was programmed
to move slower, these big emotions wouldn't hold so much weight behind them.
I feel like the weight is because you guys can feel the undercurrents of what isn't right.
And we should be having enough time to sit with each other without having to think like
I don't really have the time for this.
Like I have stuff to do.
I have bills to pay.
Like we have to go into this practical thinking mentality when someone is requiring too much
time, which is so disgusting to me that we have a society that has to function and move
that way.
And then another side of this that I really want to paint and hopefully you guys are with
me still lots of thoughts and thank you for listening to them.
Welcome to Jen's thinker brain for real, but I truly think that the world of thinker versus
feeler is meant to be a mesh and embodied together.
And we, we inherently crave what we are lacking in ourselves, but I do think there are action
steps within our own body that we can seek out some of what we're lacking.
So that we always don't have to have the polar from our external environment.
I do think that there's this individualistic thinking we are having to move from because
collectively we're not getting what we are craving.
And I do think a lot of this work kind of irons itself out in community.
I think we start to understand the balance of both, but we're having to think as individuals
because that is kind of how society has set us up.
But I think we have to be very careful to not feel from our pre written assumptions
that we cannot tell people what our own inherent needs are.
So an example of this, we just came off of the witch retreat being cat hosted in St.
Augustine and one of the girls that came on the retreat, I had this beautiful heart to
heart with about how she gives me very clear boundaries on when I am too much for her.
So she is someone I've worked with and known outside of their retreat space, but she will
say to me right now, this is a lot for me.
I can't really do this conversation.
Maybe we can come back to it, but I you're too loud right now.
That's too much for me and we'll remove herself from the situation.
Now I feel like a lot of people are very scared to talk to me this way because they're worried
they're going to hurt my feelings.
Well guess what?
Feelings are not my main perspective.
So hearing that boundary for me means a lot.
And maybe little Jen at one point, like I remember people telling me that I'm loud and
that I'm too much.
And it inherently had some wounds behind it before I had embodied a deep sense of self
acceptance and self love.
But a lot of why I am the way I am comes from a much bigger story than, oh God, they hate
me like I this sucks.
Like what the hell is wrong with me?
And all of these like inner critic voices that would get loud with someone expressing
their needs.
That's when you really don't know how to manage other people's boundaries.
And I think that's can be a huge flag to where some of your healing work can be geared up
to if you are offended by hearing someone else say what they are needing from you.
You got to learn to sit with that and explore that and see where it's coming from.
But I think there is tactful ways we can communicate being versus being like, oh, Jennifer, you're
so loud.
I cannot stand it.
Like please versus this is too much for me.
This is a lot.
I need a break.
When you can make the experience about what your needs are versus just saying something,
saying something to avoid the vulnerability of saying your own needs and just to someone
else like calling out what you're not liking about them.
You have to watch that can obviously be a trigger for someone.
These are communication differences that can be huge.
Like so far a feeler perspective, let's talk one out.
You're feeling a lot.
And then maybe someone goes into advice right away.
Like they see you crying and then they immediately are like, you know, maybe that this is something,
you know, just coming up with a way to justify your crime.
Maybe for you, what you really were needing there was just a good freaking cry without
someone running away from it or labeling it.
So maybe you learn to say in this moment, I just need to cry.
That is a beautiful way to communicate that, that will get the person inherently across
from you to understand.
And then we can learn to ask questions to fill in how both worlds can coexist together
later.
I hope this is making sense and how it can tie into boundaries.
I think there is a lot that we can trigger in each other, maybe because it's, it's harboring
around a wound or maybe it has to do with some of our sensory landscape.
I am ADHD.
I am a fidgeting, loud, busy moving mess all the time for someone who has already had an
overwhelming day.
I might come off like the last thing they need to be around and I can inherently receive
that feedback without knowing that that means that I have something to change or do.
So this is obviously very situation to situation based, but going back to the quote that I
said at the very beginning, we make all sorts of assumptions because we don't have the courage
to ask questions.
And adding onto that, maybe we don't have the courage to say what our needs really are
or say, I don't know what my need is right now, but what is happening isn't quite landing
well.
Beautiful.
Thank you for saying that.
There's so many lines that I have heard other people say to me that have just felt so good.
An example of this is me and Kat process things very differently, even though we both come
from a very masculine, Aquarius versus Gemini place.
I love when Kat will ask me, can you give me more examples of what you're saying or
can you elaborate on that a little deeper?
I have really tried to get good about journaling what people say to me that gives me space
to feel safer.
I try to extend those words out to other people and come up with my own things.
So even sharing what people in your inner circle have said to you that have brought
you a lot of peace can be a really beautiful way to reflect on this and think what lines
can I say to keep advertising myself better, to have my needs inherently met more and to
create more connection and depth in the relationships that are around me.
So I think this conversation has so many little sides and pieces to it, but I have really
sat with a notebook of my Enneagram type and what that meant to me, what my love language
is and what that means to me, what my astrology birth chart says and what that means to me
all to create a sense of self love and understanding that the inner child inside of me had wounds
that really hurt growing up and every year of my life that I have lived has taught me
new wounds and new strengths that I have to live and embody and move through and reevaluate
from.
But these are all tools that have helped me depersonalize that when someone is misunderstanding
me it doesn't have to be because I was wrong and it doesn't have to be because I was right
either.
It can be a much bigger spectrum than we are good for each other, we are bad for each other.
This is a relationship that's fueling me versus this is a relationship that I need to cut
out of my life.
I think when we label things that black and white so quickly we forget to inherently weave
in our perspectives and that is a freaking amazing thing to do and that's how I think
we're actually going to shift and change things for the collective at large instead of casting
someone out because they keep not being able to integrate correctly into our lives we figure
out maybe with curiosity is there another perspective and way to look at that where
that person's needs and my needs can maybe coexist.
And maybe the answer still ends up being no but it comes from a much more thorough place
of looking into it than a quick assumption and write off because we don't feel like we
have the time or we don't want to be hurt so we just avoid this like deeper work altogether.
Hope this lands, hope this makes sense and I would highly recommend that if you have
never gotten the tools on this stuff this is all a completely new way of thinking for
you.
That you set with some of these self analysis tools sit with pondering what feels good to
you when people say what triggers you when other people are speaking and talking what
stuff inherently makes you feel like you don't have a voice what stuff really gives you a
voice sitting with some of these journaling prompts and even thinking of it through various
relationships in your life I think can give you so much feedback to start working from
as we unpack communication we start sharing different ways to do it which has really never
been put out in media and movies and books really I think in a healthy way.
I think we're walking a new terrain of this stuff so I'm proud of you I see you I love
you thank you for unpacking this deeper healing journey so that we can add connection and
love into our lives.
Thank you for being here I will see you next week for another episode of Awaken Together.
Bye.