1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,560 Hello everyone and welcome to the Awaken Together podcast. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:11,560 I'm Jen. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,880 And I'm Kat. 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:19,280 And today we are going to go into I think Kat's favorite subject of study. 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,040 We are going to talk about psychedelics and plant medicine. 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:30,560 So this is the top episode that if my family hears they will be definitely triggered. 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:36,880 I have had the most beautiful experience with some of these things and I know Kat has too. 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,280 So we're really excited to share it with you. 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,720 It's your own personal experience. 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,320 Talk about what it looks like in society and why and really go into like the details on 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,960 all of this, which Kat has it ready for us. 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:56,680 But the first thing I wanted to preface was, yeah, this obviously has a shadow side. 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,080 If you listen to our last episode, we talked about addiction and escapism. 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:08,640 And I think a lot of these substances have gotten a really bad reputation. 15 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,400 And yeah, Kat, I just want you to explain maybe why we have such a negative light in 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,600 society on some of these things in the first place. 17 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,600 For sure. 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:17,600 Happy to. 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:23,080 The reason I'm so passionate about this topic is because it's like it's kind of that counterculture 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,360 introduction of things that just aren't normally talked about. 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,560 And I love leaning into those things. 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,840 So that inner rebel Kat has my Aquarius energy. 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Yes. 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,360 So we'll have to start with a little history lesson then we'll take it back to the war on 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,480 drugs President Reagan and Nancy Reagan. 26 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Just say no. 27 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:53,200 This was coming out of time when psychedelics were gaining such momentum in the healing 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:54,200 space. 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:02:00,400 It was the hippie era era and everyone was turning on. 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,360 That was the name that they called for tripping at the time. 31 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,860 And music festivals were huge. 32 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,520 People were. 33 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,800 What was the Tim Leary coined a phrase? 34 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,760 I think it was like turn on drop out. 35 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:19,760 It was something like that. 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,080 I'm probably butchering it. 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,200 But it was about how people shouldn't just be enlisting in the military to go fight a 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:33,880 war that we had nothing to do with as citizens really risking your life for the government. 39 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:41,040 Like now just do these drugs basically was his message, which he was pretty radical for 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,360 then and now. 41 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,000 Lots of thoughts and feelings on him. 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,080 But but yeah, that was kind of his message. 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,680 And Reagan had a big problem with that and just everything that was happening, low enlisting 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:03:00,080 numbers people actively going against that, which was bad for government bad for his image 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,400 as the head of the American society. 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:08,000 And so they started this whole propaganda against it, which was the war on drugs, which 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:14,800 was just say no and painting what the effects of drugs could do to people on their on their 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:15,800 brains. 49 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:16,800 I think I remember. 50 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Do you remember this one? 51 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:24,800 I think it was an ad and it was like a skillet and they cracked an egg and it said, this 52 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,800 is your brain on drugs. 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,800 Yeah. 54 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,800 Yeah. 55 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,440 And we can't we were really raised in the like DARE program. 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:32,440 Oh my gosh. 57 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:33,440 Yeah. 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,480 The DARE shirts like all the funny like talks. 59 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:37,480 Yeah. 60 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,800 And we painted an image that if you ever exposed to any of this stuff, like your life is going 61 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:47,640 to just like fall apart, like you will be the yeah, on the bad side of society. 62 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,240 That's that's the picture that was definitely painted for us young too. 63 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:52,240 Yeah, exactly. 64 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:58,400 And so now after really decades of having no research done on the subject because it 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:05,840 was so frowned upon for so long and made illegal, now they are just beginning to deepen these 66 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:13,320 studies and the psychedelic assisted psychotherapy has been named the new frontier. 67 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,200 So there's a lot of hope. 68 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:21,640 And I even heard once that one psychedelic trip when handled with intention and done 69 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:28,600 correctly can have similar healing effects as seven years of therapy. 70 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,420 And that's because it really catalyzes healing. 71 00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:32,420 It's not the drug. 72 00:04:32,420 --> 00:04:34,120 It's not the medicine itself. 73 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,640 It's you actually doing the work, but it acts as a flashlight. 74 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:45,240 And I think the problem with this with the reputation of psychedelics and plant medicine 75 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,200 comes when people haven't been treating it with care. 76 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:56,400 People who have been abusing it, like we talked about in our last episode, using it to numb 77 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,880 and check out and escape. 78 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,280 So the opposite of that is what's actually necessary in order for us to have those healing 79 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:06,560 transformations. 80 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,560 Yep. 81 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,360 And I would love to hear which ones are derived from plants and which ones are coming from 82 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:15,360 something else. 83 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,280 Just give us the layout of what we're working with. 84 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:18,480 Yeah, for sure. 85 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,960 So the most common psychedelics and plant medicine that you've probably heard of before, 86 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:31,320 maybe not, they're cannabis, weed, psilocybin mushrooms, MDMA, also known as MOLI, ketamine, 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,640 DMT, and ayahuasca. 88 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,400 They have some overlap. 89 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,540 And LSD. 90 00:05:37,540 --> 00:05:39,020 Those are the big ones. 91 00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:45,400 The ones that are derived from plants are cannabis, psilocybin, DMT, and ayahuasca. 92 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:52,560 Those are all naturally occurring and found in the wild and have been used for centuries 93 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,120 by ancient civilizations as a part of ceremony and ritual. 94 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,800 And MDMA, ketamine, and LSD are made in labs. 95 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,280 They have been manufactured. 96 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:04,280 Yeah. 97 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:05,280 Awesome. 98 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:06,280 Thank you. 99 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:07,280 Yeah. 100 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:08,280 Give us the goods. 101 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:13,000 So I was going to share my personal story. 102 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,520 I had my first experience with mushrooms when I... 103 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:22,400 I think it was probably age 20 when I first did it. 104 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:28,560 I had obviously been very reckless with weed and substances in general, but I knew to take 105 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,360 mushrooms more seriously. 106 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,200 I remember Googling a bunch of what I should do beforehand. 107 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,640 I was very nervous, extremely nervous. 108 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,800 Coming off of that religion trauma too, terrified of any decision I could ever make, thought 109 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,520 I would always be ruining my life. 110 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:52,160 So I went in, obviously, in a very rough head space, but I did a lot of studying on it beforehand 111 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:58,960 and really got to read a lot of people's stories that were incredible experiences, very life-changing 112 00:06:58,960 --> 00:06:59,960 experiences. 113 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:03,240 And so I was like, I think this could be a really good thing. 114 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:04,840 So I remember I took it. 115 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:12,160 I had a very good day leading up to consuming and I went into what would be a 13-hour mushroom 116 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,160 trip. 117 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:14,160 Wow. 118 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Long. 119 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,160 Oh my God. 120 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,160 Long. 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:24,480 But the most magical 13 hours of my entire life, I have even told Dani that I think that 122 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,160 experience beats our wedding day. 123 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,400 And I hate to have to say that, but it was just a really magical day. 124 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,320 And I went outside for it. 125 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,720 I read on all the blogs that going outside was going to be so much better. 126 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:46,120 I did it with two friends that were a very safe space and we all took the same amount. 127 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:55,320 And yeah, I basically walked around a woods in the forest and I felt like I was a full 128 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,080 spiritual being. 129 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,240 I felt so aligned with nature. 130 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,120 I felt like I could feel every single thing around me and it was so beautiful. 131 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:12,720 I hugged a tree for probably, I mean, time got real weird in those 13 hours, but I think 132 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,720 I was with that tree at least two hours connected in touch. 133 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,560 And I felt like the tree told me every single thing about its life. 134 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:27,240 And I have never had a relationship to trees like the same ever since that. 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:33,280 Like every tree, I feel so much respect to because I feel like I really met one of their 136 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,280 family members. 137 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,720 It was so beautiful. 138 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:43,000 And yeah, I just looked around and seeing all the colors and seeing everything, feeling 139 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,000 everything. 140 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,960 Oh my gosh, talk about my clear sentience and just already what I picked up. 141 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:54,520 It was the most profound connection to my senses I had ever experienced. 142 00:08:54,520 --> 00:09:02,320 And yeah, I didn't even quite know how to go back to normal life after because I was 143 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,600 just in this state of bliss and I was so freaking happy. 144 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:13,480 I went into work the next day and I was like the most joyous person and everything felt 145 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,760 alive and real and beautiful. 146 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:24,440 And I just felt like, yeah, it like lifted a veil of, I guess, like, yeah, I don't think 147 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,160 I had really felt connected to anything around me. 148 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,400 I think I was really starting to feel disconnected and it like replugged me in. 149 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,720 I guess that would be the best way to describe my first experience. 150 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,120 And yeah, every single thing just kind of shifted and felt different after that. 151 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,120 Tell me about one of yours. 152 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,120 Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. 153 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,120 Wow. 154 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,120 In 13 hours. 155 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:47,120 Yeah, what a first run. 156 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,120 Yeah, I did not microdose. 157 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,120 I went hard. 158 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:55,600 And yeah, I think you did it right though. 159 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,120 It was a magical experience, it sounds like. 160 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Yeah, it really was. 161 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,120 It's all you can hope for. 162 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,640 I remember thinking one other thought that popped up was I know what all the movies have 163 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,600 been trying to tell me, like all the weird trippy movies. 164 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,880 I remember having this like, oh my gosh, yeah, all the signs have been there all along, but 165 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,360 I needed to do this. 166 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:23,160 It was like having such a spiritual connection of like, oh my gosh, this has needed to happen. 167 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,760 And oh my gosh, yeah, so beautiful. 168 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,320 And I think the best way to put these experiences is that they're mystical. 169 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,920 Yeah, very mystical. 170 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:33,920 Very mystical. 171 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,720 And it takes the reality that you feel like you're stuck in and it allows you to see that 172 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:44,880 there is more than what our eyes can even perceive, which we know that scientifically, 173 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,560 but when you experience like a shift like that, yeah, it's very profound. 174 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:50,840 Yes, absolutely. 175 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,600 Well, my first time taking psychedelics was a little different. 176 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,720 I had not done research on it and I was actually dosed. 177 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,960 Dosed means that you were drugged basically. 178 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,720 So sad. 179 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,760 So I was a freshman in college, so I was what, like 19, 18, 19 at the time. 180 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:19,720 And I was living with a few roommates, there were four of us, and we had gotten tickets 181 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:26,040 to the Further concert, and Further is a Grateful Dead tribute band, if you're unfamiliar with 182 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,200 them. 183 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,640 And so that was a vibe. 184 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,360 I think we maybe had an edible before going in and just had a couple drinks, and I was 185 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,080 really planning on it just being that, you know? 186 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,420 But one of my roommates, she had a friend visiting from home at the time, and this friend 187 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:48,320 was a little wild. 188 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,080 And so yeah, just before we headed out to the show, we were just talking about psychedelics. 189 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,120 It was a very foreign concept to me at the time. 190 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,460 And we were talking about how we were curious about it, and maybe one day that could be 191 00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:09,100 something we'd try after doing research like you and sitting with it and deciding. 192 00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:10,160 And yeah. 193 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:17,160 So we go into the show, and already just there were people who were from all different walks 194 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,560 of life. 195 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:24,040 There was someone waving a sign saying, who's got my miracle? 196 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,480 Looking for my miracle. 197 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,080 And she was looking for a ticket. 198 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,800 But she was wearing full dreads, flowy skirt. 199 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,600 Got the full hippie experience. 200 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:33,600 Total deadhead. 201 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,240 And I was like, oh, wow. 202 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:41,640 I'm like a preppy college student at the time, and it was just a different world to me. 203 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:42,640 I hadn't seen that. 204 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:49,200 So we walk in, and I'm not going to say her name. 205 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:56,000 My roommate's friend, she just starts walking around the Mullen Center at UMass saying, 206 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,160 acid, acid, who's got acid? 207 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:00,160 And we're like, shut up. 208 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,160 This is our school. 209 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,160 We could get arrested. 210 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,160 We could get arrested. 211 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,160 What are you doing? 212 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,160 You can't do that here. 213 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,560 We know you're visiting, but that's not cool. 214 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,200 That's not going to fly. 215 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,960 And the next thing we know, this guy pops up, and he's like, I do. 216 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,960 We're like, what? 217 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,360 How does that work? 218 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,000 And so we're following. 219 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,400 She just starts following this guy into the show, and it's dark in there in the bowl, 220 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,640 you know, when the show is happening. 221 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,640 And we're like, oh, God, what's happening? 222 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,100 So they do their little drug deal, and we're just trying to watch the show and settle in, 223 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:35,500 look around to find some seats. 224 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:40,720 And then she turns to us, and she goes, me and my other friend, she goes, let me see 225 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:41,720 your tongues. 226 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:42,720 And we're like, why? 227 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,680 And she goes, I just want to see the color. 228 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,640 And we're like, okay, this girl's weird, but like, we'll show her our tongues. 229 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,880 And so we stick our tongues out. 230 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,080 And then she puts something on them. 231 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,760 And she goes, so that's acid. 232 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,760 That's LSD. 233 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:58,760 You don't swallow it. 234 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,840 Just leave it on your tongue for a little while. 235 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,920 And I'll tell you, like, when you can take it off. 236 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,080 And don't worry about it. 237 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:07,680 You can pay me back later. 238 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:08,680 Wow. 239 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:09,680 Wow. 240 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,760 And we were just like, what? 241 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,040 And so we listen because we didn't really know what else to do. 242 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,600 We're kind of shocked, taken aback. 243 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,600 And then the music started and time goes by. 244 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,640 And I start looking around and it was a full tab, which I mean, nowadays, I don't even 245 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,640 take a full tab. 246 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:26,640 We went hard too. 247 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:27,640 We both went really hard. 248 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Really hard the first time. 249 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,440 And so colors were being just, you know, shown all across the stadium. 250 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:42,680 And I remember having this thought of like, I can taste what those colors look like. 251 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,680 Yeah. 252 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Sensory stuff comes up. 253 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,000 Sensory. 254 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000 It was wild. 255 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,280 And then my other friend just started crying. 256 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,240 And I just turned to her and I was like, what's wrong? 257 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,240 Everything's just so beautiful. 258 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,900 It was just very intense. 259 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:04,200 Later on in the night, this ended up being, I think, like a 12-hour experience as well. 260 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:10,280 But I remember looking in the mirror and feeling like, who is that alien that I'm looking back 261 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:11,280 at? 262 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Yeah. 263 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,280 It was a lot. 264 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:14,280 It was very intense. 265 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:19,960 And I should also preference, you know, I was 18, 19 years old and I didn't really have 266 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 much of a relationship to myself at the time. 267 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,680 And I think that was really reflected in how this journey unfolded for me. 268 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:28,680 Yeah. 269 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,680 Yeah. 270 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:30,680 It's starting. 271 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,280 And that's part of the issue, right? 272 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:38,800 If these can get more regulated, more studied, more looked at, more openly accepted, we can 273 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:44,080 probably go about it a much better way than the way that a lot of people are exposed to 274 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,480 it, which it kind of ends up having a shadow just from the way that most of them are illegal. 275 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,920 Most of them are, you have to get in sketchy ways. 276 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,840 And that definitely already puts a cloud over what could be a very beautiful experience 277 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:03,000 and why those things even exist, which I do think they are very, a lot of people believe 278 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,360 these plant medicines are very linked to a spirit that can be very loving and very guiding 279 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,360 and that there's a very, there's like a, just a stronger, more in depth reasoning behind 280 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,360 these things. 281 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,680 But what I want to know is from that, from that event, when did you get into being able 282 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,040 to treat it more sacredly and use it more regularly in your life? 283 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,040 Yeah. 284 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:30,720 I'm glad you asked that question because after that first experience, I said out loud to 285 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,960 many people, I'm never doing that again. 286 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,440 Because it was a lot, I actually felt pretty bad the next day. 287 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:43,040 I think it took all of my serotonin at once and I just felt really crappy and I felt the 288 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,240 guilt because it was so frowned upon and I wasn't planning on it. 289 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,440 It was just a big shock to my system. 290 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:56,680 So I actually didn't touch it for maybe five years and I was pretty closed off. 291 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,480 I was glad that I had that experience at the end of the day, but it wasn't something I 292 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,240 was itching for again. 293 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:11,380 And then hearing from some friends who had positive experiences and had taken it purposefully 294 00:17:11,380 --> 00:17:16,800 and with intention and hearing their takeaways, that's when I began to get curious about it 295 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,800 again. 296 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:25,280 And so me, Kyle, my best friend and two of our other friends, we booked an Airbnb one 297 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,280 weekend and it was summertime and it was on this lake and we decided that this was going 298 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:38,240 to be my reintroduction and a first introduction to, Kyle didn't do it at the time, but like 299 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,620 my best friend and some other people who were there too. 300 00:17:42,620 --> 00:17:47,880 So that experience, we were really intentional with it. 301 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:48,880 I was really careful. 302 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:55,760 I had done so much research by that time because I didn't want to completely have just go in 303 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,640 headfirst like I did the first time. 304 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:04,620 And so we had less and it was LSD again and we set intentions. 305 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:11,860 And so we literally took a moment to go around in a circle and just share what we were looking 306 00:18:11,860 --> 00:18:14,340 to gain out of this experience. 307 00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:18,920 And this was a time in my life where I was working, I was out of college at the time 308 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:24,880 I was working my first job, didn't love it, knew it wasn't what I wanted to do forever. 309 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,080 And so I was just looking for kind of a purpose, which is a big intention to look for from 310 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,080 a trip. 311 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:41,400 But the way that this transpired, I learned so much about myself on this second journey 312 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:48,400 and it changed my relationship with the drug, with the medicine to a point where I wasn't 313 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,400 itching to do it again after I felt like I learned so much that I needed to journal and 314 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,760 really integrate the experience. 315 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,800 And the big difference was the set and the setting. 316 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,360 And I took the right amount. 317 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,120 I was confident about that and the setting was right. 318 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:08,920 I wasn't just in a crowd of people where I was uncomfortable. 319 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,440 I was surrounded in a quiet place in nature with my best people. 320 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,520 And that was a massive difference. 321 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:21,480 And I've taken it many times since then in different capacities, all controlled with 322 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,060 intention, focused on the set and the setting. 323 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:28,520 And it has changed my whole relationship with myself. 324 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:34,480 Yeah, I shared before with that first trip of how I looked in the mirror and I saw just 325 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,560 a foreign being. 326 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,400 It looked like an alien and I thought it was really scary. 327 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,080 It was really creepy. 328 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:48,200 And fast forward to now that I have so much more self-love for myself and have learned 329 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:55,240 to appreciate the wrinkles I have, my gray hairs, just myself as I am now whenever I 330 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,320 look at myself in the mirror and I'm under the influence of psychedelics, I feel so much 331 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,320 love for myself. 332 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,960 And I do this off of them too, but it's just so much deeper. 333 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:06,960 It's just so much deeper. 334 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:07,960 And I just give myself a little smile. 335 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:08,960 It's called the Steven Journey. 336 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:09,960 It's called the Steven Journey. 337 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:10,960 Yeah, exactly. 338 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,400 So that's a really big, obvious transformation for me. 339 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,400 Yeah, beautiful. 340 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,400 Yeah. 341 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,680 And I have also had many experiences since that. 342 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:27,200 And yeah, they all kind of come with their own journey, their own lessons. 343 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,040 I've definitely set different intentions at the beginning. 344 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,600 And I do think it surfaces a lot up. 345 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:40,480 I do kind of believe now, like in retrospect, looking back, that I do think some level of, 346 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:46,520 I guess maybe being more open to a spiritual journey or having maybe done a little bit 347 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,000 of work on yourself first could be a nice precursor. 348 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:56,280 I guess for some, like having, you know, taking one of these substances when they're so regiment 349 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:02,880 and so boxed in, it could be the only thing to make you shift because you might not even 350 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,040 realize there's a whole other world of this stuff. 351 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:12,560 But I do think kind of starting a little bit of self-awareness first can make the experiences 352 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,760 a lot more powerful. 353 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,200 I think the more that I got on my spiritual journey, the more that those experiences were 354 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,800 more in depth. 355 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,720 And yeah, I feel like they are profoundly spiritual. 356 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,240 I don't know if my first one was as spiritual. 357 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,560 It was kind of just like wonder. 358 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,080 Now I think I've had like way more, even more spiritual experiences happen along my trips 359 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,000 as I've gotten deeper into that world. 360 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:48,440 But yeah, one of the life after starting psychedelics, it really, it continues to lift the veil of 361 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,280 what our reality even is. 362 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:57,440 I think we can feel kind of bland and hopeless with how regiment our world is and how many, 363 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,800 yeah, you can always find something wrong, right? 364 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,720 You can always find something wrong. 365 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,040 It's very easy to get stuck in a negative vortex. 366 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,960 And it's kind of rightfully so to be stuck in a negative vortex because there is a lot 367 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,600 of suffering. 368 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:17,280 And once I've had that, the psychedelic experiences under my belt, I think I was, it was so much 369 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,440 easier to beauty hunt. 370 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:24,960 It was so much easier to find a way to kind of restructure what I was seeing in front 371 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,960 of me. 372 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,280 I also think that it helped my imagination and knowing the power. 373 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:36,000 I speak about that a lot on my social media page is the importance of imagination. 374 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,360 But I know that I can hone in on a color in my environment. 375 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:46,280 I know that I can try to turn little things I'm seeing into faces. 376 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:52,280 And I know I can find like a sense of play even amongst the most difficult times. 377 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,720 And I don't think I would have really linked that enough without having my psychedelics 378 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,640 under my belt. 379 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,200 What about you for life after? 380 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,860 Yeah, I totally agree with all of that. 381 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:10,320 So the magic that happens in the brain with psychedelics is that it lights up areas all 382 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,080 at once that don't usually get lit up at the same time. 383 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,960 And so that provides us with access to our minds in ways that we have really never accessed 384 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,960 them before. 385 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,880 And the only way to continue this is through states of meditation. 386 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,560 And we'll talk about that a little bit more too. 387 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,320 But yeah, things are more magic. 388 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:35,760 Like it's really it's hard to put it another way, but you just feel a deeper connection 389 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,920 with your place in the world. 390 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,080 I'll look at a tree now and be like, oh, yeah, like we're all here together. 391 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,480 That's just as alive as I am. 392 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,960 And a deep reverence for animals and other people and people's journeys. 393 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:58,760 And yeah, just kind of putting the ego aside and fully being present to, you know, whatever 394 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,760 comes up. 395 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,640 So it helps me tap into my feelings. 396 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:10,180 It also, you know, I will share that coming up on psychedelics is a pretty intense experience. 397 00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:15,440 And like you were just mentioning, Jen, like doing that self work leading up to it can 398 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,680 be super helpful to establish those like coping and grounding mechanisms for when that time 399 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,680 comes because it is an overwhelming feeling. 400 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,680 You're out of you're somewhat out of control compared to normal. 401 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:35,040 So if you've never practiced any form of surrendering, it's going to feel like it's taking over. 402 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,400 Like it can be overwhelming if you're not used to any form of surrendering. 403 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,560 I think exactly. 404 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:47,320 And once you make it past that hump, which you always do, it's never like up there forever. 405 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,800 It is just like a hump that kind of dips down. 406 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:58,040 Once you make it through that, like I have just learned to trust myself in any situation 407 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,700 because when that happens time and time again and you see yourself through and you learn 408 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:08,440 to talk to yourself from your highest self, not your inner critic, that's when you learn 409 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,960 how to do that and return to that in everyday life. 410 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:18,880 And that is probably my greatest gift from psychedelic medicine is talking to myself 411 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,560 in a really positive, loving way and knowing that I'm going to get through whatever is 412 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,560 headed my way. 413 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,560 I love that. 414 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,560 I love that takeaway. 415 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,560 So good. 416 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,560 Yeah. 417 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,120 So clearly the effects are not all bad from any bad campaigning. 418 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,760 Like I learned to see the world as the most beautiful place in the entire world and Kat 419 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,840 learned to deeply love and connect with herself to great things. 420 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:44,080 And yeah, I really think about, yeah, were these things given to us for a reason? 421 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,640 There's always that you can ponder on and what the world would look like if everyone 422 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,400 had an experience like that under their belts, because I don't think the structure that we've 423 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,040 created would look anywhere near the same because I think a lot of the way we structured 424 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,600 the world has come from this more regiment way of thinking. 425 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:07,680 And so, yeah, I think that giant hippie movement that happened at that time, people were unboxing 426 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,280 themselves feeling wild. 427 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,880 And of course, that got spun around to look at these drug addicts. 428 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,480 Yeah, they're crazy. 429 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,160 They're not thriving in society. 430 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,440 It's actually just as sickening to thrive in a society that's built the way we have 431 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,440 been. 432 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,440 And I think that was really pretty. 433 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,440 So I think that was recognized at that moment, but somehow the other force won at that time. 434 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,800 And I think us coming back to these old studies that have been dormant and psychologists getting 435 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:46,480 more access to being able to use these things, if we can get that sense back and we can really 436 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:52,880 actually this time stay on that research and not let the other side win, the side that 437 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:58,240 like wants to keep the structure that's clearly causing so many people to feel sick and stuck 438 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,480 and dead inside. 439 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,080 And part of the reason we're having such a fallout in mental health, like these things 440 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,880 are needed. 441 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:14,560 And when you're with a whole safe group that is experiencing one of these like plant medicines 442 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,720 or psychedelics, like the whole guard goes away. 443 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,720 Something that you've yeah, you can remove your ego so easy and the connectedness that's 444 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:31,560 below that is so magical that yeah, it makes you realize that we can do a lot of change. 445 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,360 Like we can really change a lot of this. 446 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,080 We're not as stuck as we think, but there's so many people that haven't experienced these 447 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,120 things. 448 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:42,280 So I hope that this research continues to blossom because what the world would look 449 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,480 like if we all knew of this aliveness would be like vastly different. 450 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,040 And I really believe that 100,000%. 451 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:57,280 It's uplifting the collective consciousness and wow, what can come of that? 452 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,160 This is really just the launching off point, which is what's so exciting. 453 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,560 This work is continuing now. 454 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,200 And so to give you all a little update on where this stands, like with the studies, 455 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,580 there's four phases of trials that these medicines have to pass. 456 00:28:14,580 --> 00:28:20,940 And to give you a little insight on what these different medicines can be used for, I have 457 00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:23,440 a little bit of information to clarify on that. 458 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,600 Ketamine is known for helping people with anxiety and depression. 459 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:34,760 MDMA is heavily being studied right now for healing trauma in PTSD. 460 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:42,320 Mushrooms for OCD, depression, anxiety, and overcoming addiction, which is fascinating. 461 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,320 And cannabis for pain management, helping people who deal with seizures, and more things 462 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,320 like that. 463 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,620 So right now ketamine is the one psychedelic that has been approved. 464 00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:57,720 And it has actually been approved for quite some time, which was a little surprising for 465 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,840 me to learn about. 466 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,080 But the ones that are kind of next up on deck are MDMA and psilocybin. 467 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,080 They're one phase away. 468 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,980 They're in phase three right now. 469 00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:08,880 Phase four means they've been approved. 470 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,120 And then LSD is in phase two. 471 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,680 So that's where they stand right now. 472 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:22,640 And Jen and I are super excited to share that we are going to be co-workers, officially, 473 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,180 working for a company called Mind Bloom. 474 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:29,720 We recently got jobs as psychedelic guides. 475 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,040 So we're going to have so many things to share, I'm sure, from just what we get to experience 476 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,240 inside that world. 477 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,420 But yeah, we're really passionate about these things. 478 00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:44,980 Being able to help make greater leaps of change than what we have been seeing. 479 00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:47,800 And I think that we're really desperately needing that. 480 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:54,720 So we're very inspired to be on the forefront of working with clients that are getting to 481 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,440 legally experience these substances and move through it. 482 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,620 And there's been profound research on the benefits of these things. 483 00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:08,060 And I think the more research we have, the more it'll continue to dismantle the stigma 484 00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:10,640 that's behind a lot of these things anyway. 485 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,640 Yeah. 486 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,680 Yeah, 100%. 487 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,840 And a little bit more on ketamine, since that's what we'll be guiding people through. 488 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,080 With Mind Bloom, you are set up with a clinician. 489 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:27,120 So you have that doctor figure to get the dosage right, find out if you're even a match, 490 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,840 because pretty much anyone who's dealt with anxiety or depression can be, unless you have 491 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,240 some family history of schizophrenia, bipolar, mental health issues like that in the past. 492 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,200 So that is taken a look at very seriously. 493 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,120 And then you're guided through the experience. 494 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,960 And then what we will be doing is help people integrate that experience into their lives. 495 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:56,440 So it's not just one siloed aha moment, but something that you can actually digest and 496 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:02,320 think back to when you're in stress triggers of how you want to talk to yourself and see 497 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,320 the world. 498 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,720 So that's very exciting. 499 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,360 It's also one of the only rapid acting antidepressants right now, which means that you don't have 500 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:17,120 to take it every single day like you might well butrin, Prozac, other things, other pharmaceuticals 501 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,580 right now that people have become dependent on. 502 00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:27,000 So it's moving away from that and moving into a new way to think of healing and therapy. 503 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,440 That's so beautiful. 504 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,480 And I think me and Kat, our personal experiences with it, which I noted while we were both 505 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,400 talking about it, was we've handled it with a lot of respect and not overdone it. 506 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:43,000 I think it's very important to keep remembering the stuff is meant to be sacred. 507 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,160 I think, I mean, if you're in that world and you've been exposed to it a lot and you've 508 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:56,640 seen it, there are so many people that use it unintentionally, use it in, they don't 509 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,120 see it as being a sacred experience. 510 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,200 They do it more as a party escape. 511 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:08,660 And so remembering that, yeah, we want to treat these things sacredly. 512 00:32:08,660 --> 00:32:14,120 And I really do think if we look at it from an energetic standpoint, you put this very 513 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:21,400 positive mindset going in and you really say and set the intention that I want to align 514 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,520 with this experience or this experience, this is what I'm needing. 515 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,960 I really think you can get that out of these things. 516 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:33,440 So if you have people around you that have over abused these things, you can always, 517 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,360 it's important to remember that we need to bring it back to these things being sacred 518 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,400 because that's part of how we're going to make the collective change for these having 519 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,800 a positive reputation. 520 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,400 We want to see people using it the right way at the same time. 521 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,400 Exactly. 522 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,140 They're powerful tools for healing when they're used correctly. 523 00:32:53,140 --> 00:32:58,660 When they're abused, it can be just as reckless as driving a car erratically. 524 00:32:58,660 --> 00:33:00,160 If you do that, you're going to crash. 525 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,140 And so that's the main thing we want to really emphasize behind this is it just needs to 526 00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,400 be done the right way. 527 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,720 Yes. 528 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,000 And yeah, I hope that this was insightful. 529 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,480 Kat, do you have some resources that we can go to? 530 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,560 Because I know you have read some good stuff on this. 531 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,560 Yes. 532 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,840 I'm constantly trying to further my own education on this subject because it's constantly evolving, 533 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080 which is what's so exciting and great about it. 534 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,440 So I have two to keep it really digestible for now. 535 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:34,040 One is a book called How to Change Your Mind, and this is by Michael Pollan. 536 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,280 The reason I love this book is because it gives a really neutral and scientific way 537 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,340 to approach all of these different psychedelics and plant medicine. 538 00:33:43,340 --> 00:33:47,320 And he actually shares his experience on each of them. 539 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,160 So he is, you know, if you know Michael Pollan, he's a big foodie. 540 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,720 And so his book on this, I think, was a little bit surprising to some people. 541 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,700 But he is a big proponent for deepening education on the subject. 542 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:05,120 And it is such an informational book. 543 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,560 And if you're looking to grow, you know, even just open your mind about the topic, I would 544 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,040 really recommend that. 545 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:18,000 And then another documentary, if that's more your speed watching, is called Dying to Know. 546 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,520 And this is a documentary with Ram Dass and Tim Thieleri. 547 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:28,560 If you haven't met those people and your journey or studied them, yeah, start that deep dive. 548 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,600 They pop up over and over again once you're in the world of spirituality. 549 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,600 Absolutely. 550 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,080 Especially Ram Dass. 551 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,600 Like, he is so near and dear to our hearts. 552 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,880 Oh my goodness. 553 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,680 He will be here now. 554 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,240 So many beautiful talks with him. 555 00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:47,520 And yeah, so you're welcome for that. 556 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,040 And we've said this one before, but Fantastic Fungi will reiterate too, because I thought 557 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,640 that documentary is newer and amazing and really got me like pumped up about this subject 558 00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,640 in general too. 559 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,640 Absolutely. 560 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,640 Yeah. 561 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:02,640 Well, thank you, Kat. 562 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,640 Thank you, Jen. 563 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,120 We will see you guys next week. 564 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,920 Don't forget to go rate us on the Awaken Together podcast on Spotify and Apple. 565 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,280 And you can add us on Instagram at AwakenTogetherPodcast. 566 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,280 Bye. 567 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,280 See you next time. 568 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:37,360 °