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Hello and welcome to a new episode of the Awaken Together podcast.

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I'm Kat.

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I'm Jen.

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And in today's episode, we are turning to a heavier topic and it's all about escapism,

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addiction, and numbing out.

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So we're going to have more of a conversation today and share our personal experiences on

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these heavy topics with you.

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Yeah.

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So we're not only going to talk about substance addiction, which I feel like is the very recognized

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thing that falls under the umbrella of addiction, but also look at other forms of it, such as

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codependency, our cell phone addiction, social media addiction, the stuff that I think we're

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all experiencing a lot more collectively too, and dive into those topics.

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So one of the first things I wanted to bring up is I held a very high standard for myself

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that I was not an addict.

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I don't know if anyone relates to this, but I was told growing up that there was a lot

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of addiction in my family and that I needed to be very careful on being near substances.

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It was kind of always this fear relationship.

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So I was so proud of myself for not ever being addicted to a substance when underneath that,

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I had a lot of addictions to other things.

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So Kat, to start us off, you want to share some of your personal experience with addiction

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and escapism, and then I will gladly go into some of mine too.

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Sure.

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So to take it back to high school, if you have listened to some of our earlier episodes,

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you know that I lovingly called my high school days my dark cat days because I was a hot

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mess.

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You got it done nice and early.

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That's right.

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I own it now and I lovingly look back on that little girl with, I don't know, just like

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compassion, basically, because growing up being a teenager is really hard in society today.

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So I started off, I think it was heading into freshman year and I started drinking for the

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first time to really fit in.

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It seemed like the cool thing to do.

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And while I still wouldn't say that I ever had an addiction to it, I definitely abused

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it.

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I binge drank a lot.

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I didn't know any other way but binge drinking.

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That was the norm.

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Having one drink at a time, like I responsibly do now as a 30-year-old, was a foreign concept.

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And just like smoking weed in the school bathroom, there were no boundaries when it came to escaping

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for me.

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And it was also in a sense of fitting in.

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But when it got a little far for me was when I remember buying alcohol from someone and

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putting it in the water bottles to hide it from my parents in my room and thinking to

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myself, wow, I have such a stockpile.

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Now I could just have this whenever I want.

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And that's when I kind of recognized that that's probably not a healthy thought.

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That's probably toxic and addictive behavior.

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And so I did stay away from that.

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But yeah, that was kind of how I treated numbing out and escaping from my insecurities, my

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low confidence growing up.

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And now it manifests in different ways for me.

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So I'll touch on that in just a little bit.

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But I want to hear for you, Jen, how that is.

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Yeah, first to comment on your experience, too.

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We were discussing this topic a little bit before we came on.

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And I do think that beneath a lot of our turning to substances and things like that is this

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uncomfortableness with ourselves.

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I really I think this year was the first year that I wasn't in as much of social settings

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because I took my year on the road.

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And what I was able to see even beyond the healing that I've been doing even more these

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past five years, not having necessarily the pressure to show up one way, I really got

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to experience that in a bigger depth this year.

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And I've realized how much I've used that as a safety blanket.

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Like if I have a drink with me or I'm high and I do something a little bit out there,

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I can always have like this backup to blame it on.

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And I liked that you said the difference between kind of abuse and addiction, because I think

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that is like a slight difference.

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And yeah, you can abuse a substance and still not fall into that necessarily addiction full

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mindset because addiction can definitely get to a point where you do need outside help

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because substances can actually be physically addictive.

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And I luckily never fell into that physical addiction.

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But did I use it to blend, fit in, have like a backup excuse in case I was too authentic,

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too silly, too messy?

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I could always go, oh, I was just really messed up.

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And that felt so safe than to show up authentically and expose and not have something I could blame

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it on.

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So yeah, I can relate to your story.

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And I think a lot of our teenage years, the reason we fall into that is because we need

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something to blame it on.

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It's very scary when you have no sense of self to show up in the world 100% without

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needing a substance to kind of blend into the way we've created our society.

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It feels safer in the way we've structured things.

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So yeah, my relationship with it, I mean, you guys have heard if you've listened to

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the first episode, I definitely took the partying to a point where it was pretty bad.

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I was definitely using that as an escape and then I had my DUI, which was my big kind of

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catalyst, my giant spiritual awakening that I've shared.

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That was a real low point for me and a point where I actually really had to start looking

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at the why behind a lot of my actions.

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But what I had learned was I was actually a codependency addict and I did a lot of therapy

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on this.

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And codependency, a lot of times it's recognized in AA as being the group you go to if you're

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with an addict because it's a good bonding for people that are in relationships with

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people that struggle with substance abuse.

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So Elanon is the meetings that you can go to for codependency.

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I didn't think I needed that because I was like, I'm not with an addict.

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I don't think I'm like that extreme, but I read a book once that like hit me right in

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the gut that she just talked about her own personal experience with codependency.

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And I really started seeing that I was using people and other people's problems to escape

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my own very chronically.

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So you hear people pleasing, which is kind of a little bit of a precursor for codependency.

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So you have to be careful, but I was addicted to being around chaos and dealing with people

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that needed me for stability.

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And I took so much pride in being the friend that was stable, the friend that could give

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advice, the friend that was there to support and had it all together.

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And it was fully fueling my illusion that I was so much better than them, very subconsciously,

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not actively, but I definitely looked and reflected back on it later.

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But I was so entitled to think that I was above the addiction when really, if I didn't

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have people around me that were needing me, I was actually experiencing withdrawal symptoms

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where I felt empty.

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I felt scared, like silence scared me.

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I would immediately start calling people if I was too alone or in too much stillness.

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And I would start having all these behaviors that were coming from a place of really bad

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addiction to people, like truly people.

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And yeah, learning and taking it as serious as an addiction to a substance was actually

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very important for me because it helped me really recognize the urges to seek other people

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almost constantly around the clock because I was so scared of facing me.

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So that is deep.

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And what an incredible realization.

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I mean, that is something that takes a lot of therapy and a lot of healing, a lot of

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looking at your shadows to even understand.

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And this whole process of acknowledging what you're using to escape is a massive step on

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your healing journey.

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It's a big part of spiritual awakening.

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And like we've said it before, we'll say it again.

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The path to spiritual awakening is not all butterflies and rainbows.

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It's a lot of this kind of work and holding a mirror up to yourself and trying to realize

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what are my trauma responses?

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What is triggering me?

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Why am I this way?

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And we all know those people who create their own drama.

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It's kind of similar to codependency, but kind of on the other side.

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Victim addiction.

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You can definitely be addicted to even the attention of having a problem.

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It's attention seeking behavior, truly.

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And addiction to attention is really, if you peel that back, it's a deeper need to feel

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loved and connected and a very poor sense of self that you're equating attention to

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love basically.

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And that is another big problem.

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If you weren't given maybe the tools younger to know how to self soothe or nurture or you

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weren't really shown a good example of what love looks like, then attention will feel

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very close to it.

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And I think a lot of people get addicted to attention as well.

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Absolutely.

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And we see this, I feel like it's a telltale thing when there's an absent father.

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And growing up, maybe a woman will turn to men to fill this void of attention and love

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and seek that love that they were so eagerly needing as a child from a father figure in

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men in other ways and not finding that there and having a kind of snowball into this just

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toxic relationship with themselves at the end of the day.

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Yeah.

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And I'm glad you use the word void too, because that is what it is.

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It's looking at probably where a lot of the absences were from growing up and reflecting

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on your childhood.

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We brought that up multiple times in different episodes, like looking at what ego identities

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you've created based on your wounds, looking at the traumas Kat said, but it's really looking

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at where those voids were probably in your life because you're probably filling those

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voids with these escapism and addiction type things because you haven't really faced the

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pain of what is underneath all of that and it comes down again to facing some of those

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emotions, reaching out for help when you need help to even see yourself or being able to

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have the support of a community, which is why AA has also been like one of the biggest

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programs for addiction and alcoholism.

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And it's beautiful because it has built a sense of community.

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So I think a lot of the people in Al-Anon meetings or AA meetings are also getting what

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they were craving and why they turned to substances in the first place, which was a deep need

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to be seen, a deep need to feel held and a deep need to be able to show your shame and

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your ugly side and not have it be rejected, which a lot of us will have various stories

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of where that's happened to us because maybe the people around us weren't ready to hold

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space for that kind of thing, but there is always a community that you can plug into

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where you can get that.

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And I think that's been why those meetings have been so successful on getting people

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out of addictive patterns.

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Yeah.

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And so part of the struggle of escapism and numbing out is acknowledging when you're in

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that cycle to begin with because how do you even stop it if you don't know the problem

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is happening?

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So I'd love to dig into some signs of escapism so that you can help yourself identify when

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this is happening for you.

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So Jen, how do you notice when you're in a pattern or a habit of trying to numb out?

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Yeah.

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Great segue.

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Yeah.

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I think until I was on this kind of yoga and spiritual journey and really starting to try

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to be conscious and mindful of why I was doing everything I was doing, which comes in layers

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as you continue to go down the path of it, I really, once I was aware that that was the,

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I don't want to say better way to live, but the more conscious way to live, the more aligned

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way to live, I could really start to check myself on when I wasn't doing that.

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And it would be like, yeah, long periods of I definitely was a TV watcher.

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Like that's definitely how I even grew up was a lot of always having the TV on.

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Definitely going on my phone and checking out.

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But it's when a bunch of periods of time has passed and you like completely lost time,

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which I do want to say too, can feel so good because life is so tough that it feels really

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good to lose time sometimes.

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Being conscious all the time can be exhausting, especially in a world that we've structured

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with so many rules, so many social norms and obligations.

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It feels great to check out.

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But it also, it goes back to that line we said once before.

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It's like life living you, are you living your life?

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It's this balance.

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But yeah, when I've lost a lot of time and I look up and I'm like, where did the time

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go of the day?

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And I know I've just been really mindless in what I've been doing.

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That's a big thing to recognize for me.

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And I also use, I look at the way I withdraw from stuff.

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I think it's very important to view the phone as an addiction because you actually have

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withdraw symptoms from being addicted to something.

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And I think that's important to recognize that when I don't have my phone with me, I

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actually go through withdraw symptoms.

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I get nervous.

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And when I realized that I had that strong of a tie to my devices, that's when I also

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started being better at putting boundaries on how much I was using it.

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What about you?

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Yeah, yeah, I resonate with a lot of that.

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For me, I can recognize when I'm in a habit of escapism and numbing out when I am moving

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super fast in my life.

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I just imagine myself as a little top that spun and hasn't stopped.

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And I can recognize this in my sleeping patterns because I will wake up like this is like clockwork

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every night at 3am when I'm overstimulized throughout the day because there's something

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to with Ayurveda and that time of day that links with your mental health.

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And yeah, so I'll wake up like I actually did this last night because the home buying

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process has been so crazy.

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Caps moving into a house.

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So cool.

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It's wild.

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So yeah, it's been a lot, a lot, a lot, and we're under contract and there's just deadlines

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happening every day and all the what ifs of like, wow, is this actually a good financial

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commitment and not actually taking the time to sit with those feelings and just trying

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to check things off the list?

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That's a big habit of mine is I go into planner mode because it makes me feel purposeful and

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it makes me feel like I'm being productive and we're taught that those are really important

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qualities to have.

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And so that's how it manifests for me.

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My lifelong challenge will always be to rest and to check in with myself.

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I know this about myself and whereas other people might go the other way and they're

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just like they go to states of checking out completely and just like watching TV nonstop

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and kind of going into sloth mode, whereas I need to do that in order to break this cycle

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for myself sometimes.

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Yeah, but this is going to be such a good segue one day into our Enneagram conversation.

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That so fits your Enneagram archetype too with that wing three.

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So good.

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Yeah, you brought up another good point of looking at how you are coping with stress

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and what your responses are because that is always going to usually be a precursor before

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escapism behavior comes on where your threshold is, what you are experiencing and knowing

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that when you're in a stressful mode that you probably are going to need a way to regulate

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yourself down and whatever way that looks like for you.

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Some it's like more busy work, some it'll be rest, but that is where you have to be

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careful because if you're choosing the same way to respond to stress every time, that's

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when I think escapism can start to fall into addiction.

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I think we have to be really careful at continuing to let ourselves be uncomfortable sometimes.

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Another thing that popped into my head while you were talking was I try to not use the

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same stuff to cope with things because I think that's when it can become a problem when you

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have I think there is like sacredness to rituals and having the same, but if you get too used

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to being comfortable in the same thing to wind down from, that's when I think it can

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start to turn habitual and then it gets really hard to break it.

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Can you give an example?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I think for me, if I were to say every time I came home from work, then I was going

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to wind down with TV, then TV is going to be like that precursor of what I want to go

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to whenever I'm overwhelmed because I've gotten used to it.

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What I started doing when I was more kind of on the path of trying to be more aware

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of my habits was trying to choose different things to settle myself down.

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I started getting into the mindset, I guess, that I need to practice being uncomfortable

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sometimes instead of always going to comfort to feel better, if that makes some sense.

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And so I started making myself choose different things.

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One day it would be a bath, one day it would be a book, one day it would be going outside.

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I started trying to make myself, I guess, diversify my responses to being uncomfortable,

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which maybe there's no backing behind that.

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That's just been kind of my own experience.

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But I know the second I turn to the same thing over and over again, then I start craving

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that same thing chronically.

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If I were to go to my phone to wind myself down every time, I'm going to start choosing

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my phone again because our brain is always looking for habits.

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It's always looking for the same.

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And I think we have to be conscious on what we're choosing, why we're choosing it.

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Could I maybe diversify my responses to things?

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Because it lets you be uncomfortable and maybe more curious than habitual and maybe stuck

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in the same responses.

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Does that make sense?

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Yeah, it does.

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Our minds want to go to the easy, quick fix that we know.

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It reminds me of a sugar addiction.

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You're going to crave more sugar the more sugar you eat.

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And it's the same thing with numbing out, checking out.

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You'll just automatically divert to those habits that maybe at first were a really positive

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thing and then they just become second nature to the point where it just checks you out

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and you're less present through it because you're doing it so often and it provides

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that ease for your brain.

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Yeah, and looking beyond, we were just talking more in the physical, you also have those

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patterns in how you respond to things.

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So making sure you're looking at your responses too.

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If you always respond with anger and you're becoming addictive to that anger response

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or you always respond with that why me mentality, you can get addicted to that why me mentality.

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It really is just choosing to respond to things differently.

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I really do think that is an underlying great principle to get used to is what if I tried

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on a different pair of shoes and tried to step into this differently?

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And I remember getting curious about that at the beginning of my journey.

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I know what I want to say to this, but what if I tried responding differently?

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And when you do something differently, it physically almost can hurt your body.

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You'll feel it because it feels uncomfortable and uncomfortable is not what our ego wants.

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It wants similarity, but I think in that you really can start to recognize where you're

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getting stuck and why you're getting stuck is choosing that, yeah, choosing maybe the

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opposite of what you would normally choose and feeling the I guess it helps to trigger

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your shadows, I guess, is what is happening.

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Getting uncomfortable is stretchy and when we push our boundaries in that way and force

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ourselves to do what is an automatic, that's where real growth happens because that's where

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you show yourself that, hey, we're going to do something different this time.

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And you change your habits, you shift your life, and that's where the big changes happen.

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It's a culmination of those small baby steps.

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And yeah, I mean, there's so much to that.

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Yeah.

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And I think the important thing to note if you are working on unwinding from an addiction

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to anything, underneath that is going to be some pain.

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It is shadow, it's the shadow that chooses to escape and numb out and check out anyway.

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So underneath that is going to be a lot of pain surfacing.

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And so to remember that you don't have to manage that pain by yourself, like find your

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people, but also know that pain gets a really bad rep for being bad.

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It's just not always bad.

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It hurts, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

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And so I think that knowing your pain and facing the underlying emotions can be the

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most freedom.

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And yeah, the best steps on your journey can be those moments that you're in pain, feeling

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it.

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Pain is aliveness.

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It's aliveness that maybe we don't crave, but it is the opposite of being dead and numb.

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So remembering to honor some of the pain that comes up as you start to face some of this

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stuff, because it's another level of deeper healing.

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And you don't have those distractions that's in your face and you're forced to deal with

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it.

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It's hard.

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So you can set yourself up for success in a number of different ways to make this process

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easier for you.

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You can reach out to a friend.

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Maybe it's the same person, maybe it's your partner.

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As you're switching up your habits and you can even hold each other accountable.

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You can say you're trying to shift your habit from watching TV automatically when you get

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home or even just having it up in the background while you're eating or doing things.

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Double screening is something that I get super guilty of being on my laptop in front of the

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TV screen, but it is comforting.

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So sometimes I let myself.

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But if you want to try to crack that habit, setting yourself up for success could look

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like having a book that you've been wanting to read right in the place where you'd normally

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sit down to watch TV.

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So it's in your face and it becomes like a next automatic way where you're kind of thinking

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about your future self and ways where you won't just kind of sink back into those old

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habits.

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I love helping my future self.

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It's like one of my favorite things to do.

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I love it.

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Set yourself up for success.

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Yeah, great advice.

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And yeah, find your community.

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And I seriously, I really do recommend like the Elanon meetings.

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It's really beautiful if you don't have a community.

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Our awakened together family is getting bigger and it's been so nice to see that too.

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But tap in with people that can hold that space for you because it's really scary to

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unveil all that stuff if you don't have a support system because part of the reason

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some of the addictions might have been started in the first place is because maybe your environment

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hasn't been a very safe space to expose your authentic self.

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So yeah, find your community.

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Really find your people.

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I've said it a couple times, but that is so significant.

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And as they say in AA, there's a surrendering to kind of a higher power too.

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And I do think if you put energy towards consciousness, you get a lot more than you're expecting

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to get.

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I really do believe in that higher power being there and helping too.

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And that is my spiritual side.

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Yes, when you put the intention out there, you're met with everything that will help

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align you to get there.

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So go through that little rocky patch, but know there is a big system that'll help when

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you have a form of surrendering and trust and you show up and do the work.

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Just ask and you shall receive.

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Yes.

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So this was a great talk.

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We wanted to emphasize if you have not gone and rated our podcast, we would love to have

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a rating so that we can continue to build our reviews and build our community.

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00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:26,380
And we have our Awaken Together podcast Instagram page.

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If you are not on there, we would love to follow.

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00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,480
Yes.

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00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,480
Thank you so much.

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And one final reminder that we have just a few spots left on our upcoming Awaken Together

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00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,400
retreat in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,840
Yeah, we haven't even publicly launched it yet.

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00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,800
And just from announcing it here on the podcast, we have five spots taken and we assume that

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two to four of those will be taken the next few days.

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So message us on Instagram again, find us.

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We love to hear from you and just connect deeper with community.

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You can also go to catalystliving.com slash offerings to check out more information online.

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But that's all we have for you today.

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I hope you have a wonderful week and we'll see you next time.

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Bye.