1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,360 Hello everyone and welcome to the Awaken Together podcast. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:18,360 I am Jenn and today it is just going to be me and my husband Danny as our special guest. 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:24,760 So if you've listened to the past two episodes, Kat and Kyle did an amazing episode on science 4 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:30,520 and spirituality and I want to give a big shout out to Kyle for sharing his vulnerable 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,840 side and sharing a piece of his story. 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:39,000 It was really beautiful to hear and yeah, I absolutely love the episode. 7 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:45,360 And then last week Kat did an episode by herself in replacing what was supposed to be me and 8 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:51,600 Danny's episode, but I was given this terrible cold. 9 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,920 Not sure really what it was, but now Kat and Kyle's household is still sick and I had to 10 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:06,160 be quarantined for 14 days and ironically the day I came back to the family when I felt 11 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,920 like I was finally feeling better, it was the day of the eclipse. 12 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,880 So nothing is coincidence there, you know? 13 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:21,160 But anyway, today's episode me and my lovely husband Danny are going to unpack religious 14 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,960 deconstruction with spirituality. 15 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,400 A lot to say on this topic. 16 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,120 Honestly, I get very passionate about this, so I'm excited. 17 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,480 So without further ado, let me introduce you to Danny. 18 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,000 He is a behavioral therapist. 19 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,840 He has also been unemployed this year as we've explored traveling the country and kind of 20 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,160 having a soul search year. 21 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,720 He's been running his own business and I couldn't be more proud of him. 22 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,760 So let me introduce you to Danny. 23 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,680 Hey everyone. 24 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Glad to be here as a first time guest on the Awaken Together podcast. 25 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Little fun fact, Kyle and I actually work on the sound for the podcast. 26 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,920 So the two husbands get to do some of the sound design. 27 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:13,640 They're the best. 28 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:16,600 But yeah, glad to be here. 29 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:22,320 And I guess today we're going to be diving into spirituality and religious deconstruction. 30 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,880 And yeah, we'll see how it goes. 31 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,880 Yes. 32 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:33,280 So a little background in case you haven't heard me kind of mention this in little pieces 33 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,440 throughout the episodes, you know, Kat and I have shared with you guys. 34 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:47,960 But I grew up in the Christian church and I was every single week, usually twice a week 35 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,720 church attendee. 36 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,120 We did frequent Bible studies. 37 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,960 My parents host many Bible studies even now. 38 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,920 And I think like a really good summary to show like how deep in that world I was is 39 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:05,600 that I was previously engaged to a pastor's son. 40 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,000 I was so deep in that world. 41 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:15,760 And as I fell into kind of a more spiritual life journey, I had to reflect back when you 42 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,000 talk about shadow work and looking at your past. 43 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,360 A lot of self work had to be done to kind of figure out my place between what was feeling 44 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,480 like two different worlds. 45 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:35,320 And Dani, I would love to hear kind of just from the outside observer of watching my struggles, 46 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,080 which I know you've seen the good, bad and the ugly. 47 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,520 Just what you've kind of seen is I've unpacked it all over the years because you've been 48 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,360 right at the front line, right at the front line. 49 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,360 Yeah. 50 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:53,400 So Jen's spiritual journey, we've known each other for over 10 years. 51 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,760 And in the beginning, I knew she grew up in a religious household. 52 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,200 Church was a big part of her life. 53 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:07,480 But it wasn't until we started dating that I really started to understand some of the 54 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,480 side effects that came along with that childhood. 55 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:22,160 And I would notice that Jen often struggled with feelings of shame, feelings of guilt, 56 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:31,320 and especially feelings of judgment from her family and maybe more impactfully from God. 57 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,800 She would be in tears over this. 58 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:41,200 It was clearly traumatic for her to explore spirituality in a direction that was anything 59 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,200 other than what had been preached. 60 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,380 That was very different from me. 61 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:55,480 With my upbringing, I never felt those feelings of shame or judgment from the church or from 62 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,000 my family. 63 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:05,240 So seeing Jen go through that was not only new to me, but shocking because I hadn't seen 64 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,640 somebody struggle in that way with spirituality before. 65 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,240 So yeah, Jen, what are your thoughts on all that? 66 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,240 Yeah. 67 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:21,240 I think Dani has watched me have hundreds of breakdowns over the years because just 68 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,680 to give a little background, I was raised really strictly in Christianity. 69 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:33,040 It was always taught that the Bible had the exact formula of how we should live our lives. 70 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:41,280 And every single thing that was not mentioned was really frowned upon exploring. 71 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:48,600 And so with that, your whole entire life as new things get introduced to you, you're constantly 72 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,760 under this mindset that evil is trying to get to you or that it's darkness creeping 73 00:05:54,760 --> 00:06:00,800 in or that you must have done something wrong because all of a sudden you're being taunted 74 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,520 by temptation. 75 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:09,040 And they give you all these standards to thinking that end up impacting basically anything you 76 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:17,640 explore as you get older and are exposed to new beliefs or new perspectives and just different 77 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,080 people. 78 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,400 So yeah, the guilt was not a joke. 79 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,880 The fear was not a joke. 80 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,280 It was all really intense. 81 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:36,320 And Dani, upon dating, I remember a really big fear that we're always taught that we 82 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,240 need to find someone that has a similar faith to us. 83 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:49,280 And although I had dated previous people after that pastor's son that obviously explored 84 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:52,960 different concepts of belief, it still made me nervous. 85 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:59,840 There was still this internalized guilt of if I really want to marry someone and spend 86 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,400 my whole life with them, I've always been taught that they need to somewhat think like 87 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:11,160 me, which is very messed up looking back in retrospect, but it's the reality. 88 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:16,920 So I remember me and Dani dropped into some tough conversations pretty early on in our 89 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:17,920 dating. 90 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:24,120 I remember one of our first dates deeply discussing what we thought of existence. 91 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,640 We were at a Mexican restaurant, you remember? 92 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,640 And deeply discussing. 93 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,040 I ate about five bowls of chips and salsa. 94 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,040 Yeah, yeah. 95 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,200 It was a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure on the table. 96 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:42,760 But I remember I really wanted to know where his head was and all of that, because in my 97 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,000 mind, I was terrified of... 98 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,640 I felt such a deep love for Dani. 99 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,920 I think I knew right away he was my soulmate, but I was terrified of like, oh no, what if 100 00:07:53,920 --> 00:08:00,480 we live life together and our faith is so different and it comes back to bite me? 101 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,520 I remember still having a really... 102 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,800 This was before deconstruction had even started. 103 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,680 This is before I knew religious trauma even existed. 104 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,520 Yeah, do you remember? 105 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:13,520 I do. 106 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:26,040 And I remember you being very emotionally relieved when I agreed to go to church with 107 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,920 you for the first time as a couple. 108 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Because at that point in my life, it had been a long time since I had explored religion 109 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,960 and it kind of cast it off when I was in my teen years. 110 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,880 But I loved you and that was very important to you. 111 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,520 So it made me reconsider faith and Christianity. 112 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,160 I just remember when I agreed to go... 113 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,960 Yeah, you were just like over the moon. 114 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:58,960 Yeah. 115 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:06,640 Honestly, it was really just the guilt side of that internal negative inner voice was 116 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:12,080 what was telling me like, oh, make sure you can at least get him to go to church with 117 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,080 you. 118 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:21,480 I just had so many little just nuggets in my mind from all of the church dialogue, all 119 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,120 of the things my parents had told me. 120 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,560 So it was just a relief that you were open-minded to that concept. 121 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:32,040 It wasn't even so much, I needed a lot out of it. 122 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,800 I still think we pretty much lived in our truce with each other. 123 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,800 But at the same time, I was still struggling with what to do about my religion and how 124 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,680 to hold on to that as I was getting older and responsible for my own decisions. 125 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:49,160 It was still impacting a lot for me. 126 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:58,520 And then as I fell onto yoga, that would have been really before we started dating, but 127 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,280 it definitely grew a lot stronger as I moved to West Virginia. 128 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,360 I lived about an hour away from Danny. 129 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,320 This is earlier on in our dating years, but the yoga mat was where I was finding like 130 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,800 the most relief. 131 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,280 And Danny would watch me enjoy my yoga practice. 132 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,880 And then all of a sudden I would just get overridden with guilt because my parents were 133 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:28,920 also continuing the conversation with me that yoga was not something Christians should practice, 134 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,880 that it's not mentioned in the Bible, and that if anything, it's probably worshiping 135 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,400 another God. 136 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:45,280 I remember when you started yoga teacher training, you were on the phone, I think with your mom 137 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:54,720 and Jen was in tears, like hysterical because your mom was basically telling you that practicing 138 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:02,600 yoga is the same as worshiping a false idol and your heart was broken. 139 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:11,640 So early on in the days, like I had this overwhelming sense of fear that why was something feeling 140 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:18,520 so good and then at the same time didn't line up with the faith that my parents expected 141 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,280 me to have for my upbringing. 142 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,080 And yeah, my dad has an entire blog post, why Christians shouldn't practice yoga. 143 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,560 I mean, it went really deep, but at the same time I felt incredible and had to honor my 144 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,520 inner compass, although the guilt was so bad. 145 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:41,400 I continue to kind of push that to the side, but it's scary because even as you're rediscovering 146 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,400 all these things, the voice in your head does tell you maybe this is one giant temptation 147 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:47,880 to get you off the path. 148 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:53,920 Like when you get told that, like your whole life about every single new concept, it's 149 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,920 impossible for that voice to not be there in some capacity. 150 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,120 And so yeah, yoga teacher training was great. 151 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:08,440 To my mom's exact fear, it unlocks the door to way more open-minded thinking. 152 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,400 It wasn't a catalyst to take me to the dark side. 153 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:17,560 It was remembering that the religion had really boxed me in. 154 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:24,120 It had made me feel a lot of resentment, not only towards myself, but I also felt a lot 155 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:30,040 of judgment towards other people that live differently than me because I didn't understand 156 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,520 it. 157 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:37,200 And yoga teacher training was the start of a really beautiful journey. 158 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,680 And so yeah, then we'll take it a little closer to now. 159 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:47,640 A lot of new things have fallen onto my path, even in the last three years since me and 160 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,600 Danny have been married. 161 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,840 We moved to Denver, obviously got away and kind of created our own safe space, which 162 00:12:54,840 --> 00:13:01,880 I think kind of unpacked all of the religious trauma probably deeper than ever before because 163 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,640 it felt like it was kind of me and Danny's little bubble. 164 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,320 Yeah, it was a new world. 165 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:13,320 It was, it felt like a really fresh start for us, similar to Kat and Kyle. 166 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,680 But yeah, then astrology fell onto my path. 167 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:24,600 I started working with Reiki healing and energy work as I've shared on this podcast, really 168 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:32,360 started studying into alternative ways of healing, got deep into meditation. 169 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:39,120 So many, so many cool things, lots of reading, and I think Danny has watched me have so many 170 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,640 breakdowns usually in the bathtub. 171 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,200 Oh yeah, bathtub. 172 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:51,240 There are many bathtub book and candle nights and not just this is not to say that it was 173 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,500 just Jen having a calming bath. 174 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,680 This was like right before the bath. 175 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,000 Jen is shaking uncontrollably. 176 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,760 She like, it's essentially a panic attack and I had never seen you do that either. 177 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Yeah. 178 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:07,880 So that was shocking. 179 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:13,240 I had so much nervous system retraining to do. 180 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:19,480 So let's talk about, let's kind of gear the conversation up towards fear because I think 181 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,440 this is important. 182 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:28,280 This new kind of, maybe you've experienced this, maybe this is something that just like 183 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:35,680 hasn't landed in your circle, but just to share some perspective, a lot of the Christians 184 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:42,680 right now, you know, Christian can still have a giant scale to it, but I think a lot of 185 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:49,960 the people really within the church, within kind of that stereotypical Christian mindset, 186 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,760 I don't mean that judgmentally. 187 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,320 I'm just trying to kind of paint a picture, but there's a real worry that this giant new 188 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:03,600 age and spirituality movement is extremely alarming and needs to be stopped and people 189 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,760 need to preach their faith like never before. 190 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,560 And that message is truly being shared. 191 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:15,520 I have several friends right now that are still kind of in the church world more than 192 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,160 I am, more than I am for sure. 193 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:23,520 I have definitely separated myself from a lot of that, kept pulling me back into old 194 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,560 patterns and limited ways of thinking. 195 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:34,160 But yeah, there's a message being sent out that this stuff is evil and that it's a trick 196 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,120 and that it is pulling people away from God. 197 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,400 And so I think we need to delve into that just slightly because I recently had a conversation 198 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,800 with a girl that went to my yoga retreat. 199 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,640 She's a health coach and is deep in the spiritual world. 200 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Her name's Anna and we did a little Instagram live talk. 201 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:04,580 She had a girl go to another wellness, healing, meditation retreat with her and then come 202 00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:11,320 back home and immediately apologize publicly for attending that event and said she's so 203 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:12,320 sorry. 204 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,540 Was that an astrology event? 205 00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:19,080 It was just a very spiritual retreat and she came back and said, I'm so sorry, that was 206 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:24,200 all evil and I just didn't realize that I was doing something that was wrong and I just 207 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,360 want to take it all back. 208 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:33,560 And I had also experienced another Instagram account where a girl had taken down all her 209 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,640 Enneagram stuff and said, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was going against the church and 210 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,520 I was doing something wrong and I just want to take that back and I'm just seeing this 211 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:52,120 kind of guilt cycle repeat itself where people are getting really torn down that are a part 212 00:16:52,120 --> 00:17:00,520 of kind of both worlds simultaneously and are falling for the side of, oh crap, I'm sorry, 213 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:06,000 let me stay in my lane, let me stay in my box where I am safe and I'm doing what God 214 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,440 is wanting me to do. 215 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,200 Well, and what I've been told is okay to do. 216 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,200 Exactly. 217 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,960 So yeah, let's unpack that a little bit, shall we? 218 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:24,880 Well, I guess I'd like to ask first, what was it about this retreat that this girl was 219 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,480 apologizing for? 220 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:33,320 Yeah, when we were unpacking it, me and Anna, it sounded like, yeah, she just, it was a 221 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,040 lot of deep meditation work. 222 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,280 It was a lot of breath work. 223 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:42,800 It was a lot of kind of goddess energy, which comes into that woman empowerment and that 224 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,920 deep self love. 225 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,200 And so I think that's the first thing to go over if we're talking kind of the new age 226 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,200 movement. 227 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,700 I think one of the biggest fears is that it is the self journey. 228 00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:02,240 It's not a lot of the outside viewpoint is that it's taking God out of the picture and 229 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,800 putting a lot of emphasis on self. 230 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,560 So do they think it's like selfish instead of selfless? 231 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:10,760 Yes, exactly. 232 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:18,320 I think there's a huge tie to being, I think there's a lot of dismissiveness in kind of 233 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:27,520 the unveiling of more trauma work and inner child healing and deep therapy and psychology 234 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:33,880 and the studying of why you do what you do and the advertising that it's all a part of 235 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,200 this self love journey. 236 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,960 My mom has said this to me tons of times. 237 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,760 Well, it's not about you. 238 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,320 It's about God. 239 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:48,400 And the fact that we still have this tear up that doing all these beautiful practices 240 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:54,780 that help you relinquish the identity blocks that you've held onto, the control you've 241 00:18:54,780 --> 00:19:01,860 held onto, the limited beliefs that have kept you from fully authentically expressing who 242 00:19:01,860 --> 00:19:03,960 you are in every moment. 243 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,120 And when I would argue those things get you closer to God. 244 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,120 Yes. 245 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,120 And exactly that. 246 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:17,600 When you take all that stuff down, whatever God is to you, you feel it deeper and more 247 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,600 authentically than you ever have. 248 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,640 I think it's the greatest thing to point to a higher power. 249 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,680 And like Kyle said in the science and spirituality episode, you start seeing God in everything. 250 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:34,600 You no longer are looking at people through a lens of they're different, they're wrong. 251 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,240 I'm so right. 252 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:42,240 It actually is way more selfish in the religious, often the religious mindset. 253 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,040 It's a very, we have it right. 254 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,720 You have it wrong. 255 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:53,840 When you do the self love journey and your internal world has been looked at and you've 256 00:19:53,840 --> 00:20:00,320 gotten a curiosity to your own body and your own way of thinking and you're more conscious 257 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,560 of it, you don't look at anybody with a lens of judgment or a lens of they're wrong. 258 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:07,560 I'm right. 259 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,920 It really takes the veil away of feeling as much of a difference or a disconnect between 260 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,000 you and other people. 261 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,760 And yeah, the new age practices are- 262 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,760 Oh yeah. 263 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:26,280 I've heard your parents say so many times, like, I don't like this new age stuff. 264 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:32,080 And I had never even heard the term new age. 265 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,280 I've never heard that so many people say it so many times until your parents. 266 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,280 Yeah. 267 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:44,800 I saw a TikTok where this Christian account was like, which talk is trending right now? 268 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,480 We have to be vigilant. 269 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,480 It's happening. 270 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,680 I know that people are falling for the wrong side. 271 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:51,680 And he was crying. 272 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,680 He was tearing up. 273 00:20:52,680 --> 00:21:01,320 And I remember feeling that all the time as this stuff entered my path, but it was, everything 274 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,320 was so beautiful. 275 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,600 But the voice of the church was like in my ear. 276 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,280 All of that programming that had been done on my early mind was so close. 277 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:19,640 And yeah, the spirituality practices are to help you deeply connect your mind, body, and 278 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:20,640 spirit. 279 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,320 And it goes so much deeper. 280 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:29,200 I find that a lot of people that are still deep in that kind of religious dogma are often 281 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,040 struggling with connection to their body. 282 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,360 They still will dismiss a lot of their body's ailments as being something they just need 283 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:40,920 to pray for a little harder or something that... 284 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,520 Yeah, they even can punish themselves for feeling like the disconnect. 285 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,640 There's not as much of a exploration on mind and body connection. 286 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:57,320 I think the dismissiveness even in the mental health sector gets kind of summarized as being 287 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:02,320 like maybe I need to pray more or maybe God is punishing me in some way. 288 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,320 Right. 289 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:09,960 Well, and I was just going to add people who choose to stick with the church after doing 290 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:14,680 their own spiritual journey, at least now it's like a conscious thing where they've 291 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:20,200 explored other stuff and now this is what they truly want to do. 292 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,440 I think that's an important point to make is that it can lead you almost right back 293 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,920 to your starting point, but with a completely different perspective. 294 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:35,760 One that I think, yeah, as we talk in and awaken together, you see everything kind of 295 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,160 through a different lens. 296 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:46,920 I personally, I think the Bible can be where you can get inspiration at times. 297 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:53,120 I often don't use it because it can be a trigger for me, but I do remember looking back on 298 00:22:53,120 --> 00:23:01,080 my past and I would ask kind of similarly that I do now with my angel cards and my tarot 299 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,760 deck, I would ask, just give me something to lift me up. 300 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,600 I need to hear like a message and I would open the Bible and read something that would 301 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,840 inspire me, give me a little boost. 302 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:20,680 I do think some profound messages can come out of it, but I think the problem is the 303 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,880 Bible first off has been, you know, retranslated a lot of times. 304 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:31,020 And if you look at the way Christianity is studied and other cultures besides America, 305 00:23:31,020 --> 00:23:33,040 it's presented a lot differently. 306 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:40,280 I think we've gotten so used to, it's kind of been like kind of a collective insanity 307 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:47,120 in that the messages have now been, we've heard so many sermons and there's kind of 308 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:52,480 this like the shield over people's eyes on how to interpret it because they're also not 309 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,240 realizing that the amount of times they've heard sermons structured a certain way has 310 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,000 spilled over into how they're interpreting everything. 311 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,800 The pastor mentality as being the anointed one at church and no one else in the church 312 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,480 would be as anointed and not being able to necessarily, you know, split up the messages 313 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,560 or go over multiple perspectives within them. 314 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,080 I think there's just been a lot of closed mindedness that has been accepted. 315 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:27,640 I just think it's interesting that so many people take life lessons almost exclusively 316 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:36,440 from this text when we know that scientifically you should never put all of your eggs in one 317 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,080 basket so to speak. 318 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:45,120 You should never write your thesis based on one reference, right? 319 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,160 You have your entire work cited page. 320 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,200 You need to be looking at tons of different sources, not just one. 321 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:59,040 And yes, of course, the Bible was written by many minds and many perspectives, but to 322 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:08,600 pull all of your information and live your life based on something that is dated is just 323 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,920 fascinating to me that people make that commitment. 324 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:12,920 Yeah. 325 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,280 And I think that brings a good point. 326 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,080 You know, it was always taught that the Bible was a very like holy text. 327 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:26,320 Those people were very inspired to write all the books that they wrote. 328 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,160 One of the arguments I give to my mom, you know, I think it's very touchy to bring up 329 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,480 like, well, it's just a book wrote by man. 330 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:41,240 I think that gets very touchy because they, you know, I think it's very taught that it 331 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:49,040 was kind of an anointed text or a very spiritual text that was given from a higher power. 332 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,240 And this is the argument I tell my mom. 333 00:25:51,240 --> 00:26:01,120 I think there's been many, many beautiful books written since that were also very divinely 334 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:02,120 inspired. 335 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:08,360 I think if we think of creative energy as divine energy, then the creativity that hits 336 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:15,680 you that makes you put something out into the world is coming from a divine, a divine 337 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,680 source. 338 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,800 And we've had many beautiful books written that have been new perspectives that could 339 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,280 have been just as divinely guided as the books that made up the Bible. 340 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,160 And so I think it's, I think we have to look at the other works of art, the new forms of 341 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,880 creativity, the new messages that have come and been brought to us as being just as valid. 342 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,120 The new age. 343 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,120 The new age. 344 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,120 Trigger words. 345 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,120 Take it out. 346 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:43,120 Take it out. 347 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,120 I'm just kidding. 348 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:55,120 So yeah, I think it's really important to keep that in mind with any system that is 349 00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:00,840 pushing more fear or even the movement that is pushing to box this, these spiritual kind 350 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,720 of new age practices into fear is that fear dysregulates us. 351 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,160 Fear makes our body sick. 352 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:14,840 Fear adds so many poor qualities to your mental, physical and spiritual health. 353 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:20,640 And so anyone that's trying to make you fear more, fear is taking that connection away 354 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,320 from you and fear is the opposite of love. 355 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:32,720 And I think in the, the, the text of the Bible, you have to be very careful. 356 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:39,320 It does say fear not a lot of times, but people take these very specific Bible verses and 357 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:45,320 use them to create their entire reality when a lot of the terms that are used in those 358 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:52,440 Bible verses, like the one that talks against witchcraft, witchcraft wasn't even a known 359 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,720 term at the time of the Bible being wrote. 360 00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:01,960 So we have to look at how the verses have been modernized and interpreted differently. 361 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,360 I think there is a lot that can be delved into that as a completely separate talk. 362 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,200 But if that's something you struggle with or your family brings up often and they quote 363 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,000 these very specific Bible verses to you, I think the best answer you can have is I'm 364 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:25,640 not going to let fear pull me away from what I'm here to do in my divine connection with 365 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:33,680 the universe, my God, whatever it is, because when you have that true divine connection, 366 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,040 the fear really does fall away. 367 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,840 I've experienced that myself and it took really delving into the world of spirituality, which 368 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:48,680 pushes a lot more for mind body connection than I think the kind of religious dogma and 369 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:55,440 the preset religions that have been kind of followed at least in America's way of doing 370 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,680 it. 371 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,080 The body speaks huge volumes and I think the practices that encourage you connecting back 372 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,320 with your body and aren't telling you that your body is creating sin for other people 373 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,040 or the purity culture of blah, blah, blah. 374 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:18,640 The purity culture continues to perpetuate a disconnection from your body, a disconnection 375 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:19,640 from. 376 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:26,120 It really can perpetuate abuse and abuse on yourself and what you tolerate because you 377 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,080 just you're missing that link of mind, body and spirit. 378 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,600 And so I think the practices can only enhance. 379 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:40,440 I want to say one other kind of ranty thing, but I really do believe that when we look 380 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,920 at all these religions, Kyle, Kyle brought this up in their episode as well. 381 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:53,520 I think all religion is was people trying to make sense of the unseen. 382 00:29:53,520 --> 00:30:01,520 It is a bunch of people's interpretation of spirituality kind of taken a little bit further. 383 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,840 It's created more strict rules. 384 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,360 You know, the perspectives have turned into kind of like a full script on what you should 385 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,640 and shouldn't do. 386 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:16,440 But in reality, if we look at that all with a lot less harshness, it's people all curious 387 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,720 about the same thing. 388 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:26,600 And I think religion is trying to understand the mystery of our existence, the beauty of 389 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,640 this divine power that we can tap into. 390 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,640 And I think it's important just to remember to keep softness and curiosity as we explore 391 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,320 this and get back to the way we probably were when we were first trying to figure it all 392 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,320 out, where we discuss the wonder and discuss the little moments that happened to us that 393 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,080 were profound and beautiful. 394 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:56,720 And yeah, remembering the starting point instead of the predetermined scripts that have been 395 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,480 shared generation to generation. 396 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:08,680 Well, babe, it's been really fun to be along the ride of your spiritual journey over all 397 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,760 these years. 398 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:21,960 And I am so proud of you for where you are now compared to the spiritually shy girl that 399 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,160 I once met and dated and married. 400 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,920 And now we have a dog. 401 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,360 Thanks, babe. 402 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:40,560 And thank you for continuously providing a safe space as I, you know, my beliefs shift 403 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,560 and move. 404 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,400 And, you know, you've always spent a very safe space to share beautiful experiences 405 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640 that have happened. 406 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:54,720 So thank you for allowing me just to grow and find the version of me that, you know, 407 00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:02,320 I want to be each and every day and allowing me to safely shift when that version changes 408 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,840 based on, you know, my perspective. 409 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800 So thanks for the safe space. 410 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:08,800 You're welcome. 411 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,800 Yeah. 412 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,400 And thanks to all the listeners. 413 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:21,160 The final thing I want to leave you with is we are doing one final episode next week. 414 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:26,600 That'll be our season one finale episode. 415 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:33,200 We are going to be hosting on December 18th a free event to any of our listeners. 416 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,920 We'd love to have you join. 417 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,800 Our information is on our Instagrams. 418 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,040 We're going to guide you guys in a full moon ceremony and have an open discussion on any 419 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,480 of the questions that have come up as you've listened to our episodes previously. 420 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,440 So you can check out our Awaken Together podcast Instagram page. 421 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,880 We will share a links for sign up. 422 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,680 It's going to be on Kat's website, Catalyst Living. 423 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,800 That's K-A-T-A-L-Y-S-T, living.com. 424 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,000 If you want to sign up and join us, we would love to have you. 425 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,520 Thanks for all your support and we will see you next week for our final season one episode. 426 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,520 Bye. 427 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,520 Bye everybody. 428 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,520 Bye. 429 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:48,520 Bye.