Welcome back to the Clean Sailors podcast.
Let's talk about sailing, our marine industry and innovations towards getting it clean.
I'm your host Holly, founder of Clean Sailors and a sailor myself with a passion for the
health of our mighty oceans. Through conversations with innovators, inventors, adventurers and
inspirational sailors, we're looking at those who are helping to change the way things are done.
Okay, she's back. I'm joined again by Ella Hibbet, who you won't remember from a podcast
episode we did earlier in 2024. Ella is gearing up for a solo Arctic Circle, attempting the world's
first single-handed non-stop circumnavigation of the Arctic, but also importantly raising
awareness of the environmental challenges that we have going on up north. Ella, it's so good to see
you again. Thanks for having me back. So what was the purpose of this year's trip?
So this summer's trip was really about trialing and testing both the yacht and myself. Obviously,
Javer underwent quite an extensive reset for the first half of 2024, from generally up until sort of
June-July. So it was about getting out there and making sure the boat was up to the standards we're
looking for, making sure that I loved single-handing as much as I was hoping I would, and also trying
to push north and start raising awareness for the campaign that we're building and showcasing the
reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing. So this was a test run in every sense. The boat, yourself,
the passage, just getting a sort of understanding of the, in some ways, I imagine also like the
weather systems. Yeah, absolutely. All of the above, really. It was just time for Javer and I to
get out there and put up anywhere on my clothes, you know, and do everyone proud and show the
sponsors that we're all heading the right way and getting geared up for next year's attempt.
What were you perhaps most aware of or nervous about before you left for this test run?
I think how I was going to handle sleep deprivation and being offshore alone. I mean,
I've had every confidence in the boat from the get-go, but this was my first sort of
extensive single-hander trip. So yeah, I'm glad that I took to that as well as I was hoping I would.
I think the important thing is, right, as you said, smart to do the test run on every level,
but also the fact that you've come back and you are still gearing up to go next year,
because I appreciate objectively there is always the opportunity for people to say,
you know what, that was enough. But you're really raring to go for the...
Yeah, I think that was part concern, mostly probably from my family, that I might turn
around after doing what I did this summer and say, actually, I hate it that and I don't want to do it
again. But it was quite the opposite. I loved every moment. Even when things were less than ideal,
I was still loving it. So yeah, the Ava's back in the yard and fixing up a couple of issues we
found this summer, which is helpful in hindsight because those who have been following the campaign
from the beginning might know that the original plan was to attempt the second navigation this
summer before postponing to be able to get these trials done. And without doing that,
I would have encountered some issues during the second half that probably would have
hindered our attempt at it. So yeah, we're fixing all those up and yeah, definitely just excited
to get back out there. I've been online for about four weeks now and I've had enough already.
I mean, just I want to be really clear also, right? If you had done that and if anyone has
attempted or done the trial run and then decided it's not for them, that's completely legit, right?
I mean, it's just very impressive that this is something that genuinely hasn't been done before
what you're attempting. And so not only is it super prudent and obviously smart, but also just that
exercise of extending yourself into that physical environment on your own. I mean,
giving the goose pimples again, so many times that we talk because it really is exceptional.
It's exceptional in terms of the adventurousness and obviously the ingenuity of everything
you're doing to prepare your boat, etc. But also because it is genuinely uncharted to the extent
that no one has yet managed to do what you're looking to achieve next year. So it's no small
feat, Ella. Just going to say it like that. Thank you. Yeah, no, it isn't. But I think
the way that I recognise it is slightly different to how it must be seen for people looking in on
what's going on. So if I allow myself time to sit and think about how nuts it probably is,
then it wouldn't be being done. So it's all very modular at the moment, keeping everything
in mind. I think about mental health is working through the list of what I need to do to do
now or next year and just keeping focus rather than getting caught up in how extreme of an event
it might be or thinking about what happens when I get back from it. It's one step at a time.
I remember actually talking on your boat before you left about things like sleep deprivation,
because also Liz Aileen, that's obviously a big concern or let's say opportunity for self-awareness.
How did you manage that in the end? And is that still something that you feel most aware of or
very aware of or nervous about still going forward? I don't feel as nervous about it anymore, no. So
when I sailed this year, we sailed up the noise and coast, gave it a night to Tromso and then
sailed from Tromso to Svalbard and Svalbard back to Tromso. So those two crossings of the Barren
Sea were seven days each. And at no point in either crossing did I sleep for more than 20 minutes at a
time. So I found pretty quickly that 20 minutes was the right time for me, 15 or 25 or 30. I would
wait up either not rested enough or too groggy. So 20 minutes was really the perfect number.
And I found it much easier to get into the pattern of sleeping 20 minutes at a time than to get out
of it once I got back to land. Like I said, I only pursued it up to a week at a time, but I feel like
I could push that to about 10 days if I had to. A lot of next year's circle navigation is going to
be coastal. And there will be opportunities in periods of open water to hope to and get longer
sleeps or if needs be to drop the hook or attach to an ice flow or do what I also need to not have
to push that seven day to 10 day sort of limit. But I'm confident that I could do a week at a time
if needs be of those 20 minute sleep cycles. So definitely please don't access those.
But we said that you found your medium, right? Because it's easy to say, well, you'll read
books like there's a fantastic one on Xtreme, you know, it's how people sort of go into environments
where they are, you are stretching your natural body rhythms or otherwise. And you almost can't
write it and say, actually, you can manage it say two hours or 20 minutes or 10 minutes.
The fact that you found your personal optimum, I think it's so important, isn't it? Because
that's what your body needs. That's what your mind needs enough for you to continue and sort of be
rested, but certainly just aware and alert. You know, 20 minutes like work for everybody,
but it works for me. And if I can get enough 20 minutes that I'm averaging,
anywhere between three to four hours of sleep in a 24 hour period, then I'm pretty good.
If I'm not getting enough 20 minute naps that I'm getting sort of less than two hours
sleep every 24 hours, then I'll start to struggle. But that's sort of three to four hour
in a 24 hour period seems to work quite well. And then obviously more if you can and
in the crack on if you can't.
And what were you surprised at? And perhaps what were you genuinely not prepared for in this test run?
I think on the crossing two Svalbard from Tromso, in the middle of the Barents Sea,
Yeva suffered total steerage failure and flooding to the floorboards. Now,
I'd had issues with the steering that I'd sort of jury rigged on an office we went,
and I'd had the flooding and I'd never had both happened at the same time.
So the issues there were two parts. So the flooding stems from the fact that the anchor locker
didn't have any outboard drainage. It had a drainage pipe that led to the bilges inside the
boat. So Javer's got a hollow keel, which is a meter 75 of draft, which is a lot of water
for a 38 foot boat to get stuck in the bilges. So what we didn't realise with neither of the other
owners having particularly done any sort of heavy weather offshore sailing like the five meters I
was in in the barrens was we didn't realise quite how much water that was going to let in
to the point where the bilge pumps were sort of pumping all the time consistently and after
nine or 10 hours would just fail. So that was one half of the issue. And then the other half was
the steering, which is kind of hard to explain without drawing it on a piece of paper. But
essentially you've got the the rudder shaft and the rudder quadrant and the rudder quadrant was
held to the shaft by a keyway system like a male to female connector with four grub screws to keep
it in place. And with the bashing about in seas that heavy, the grub screws weren't enough to hold
the quadrant to the shaft. So it's slid off of the bottom of that male connector, which meant that
so obviously the hydraulic arm for the autopilot and the manual steering arm for the for the cockpit
helm were both connected to that one rudder quadrant. So total steerage failure of the boat
essentially at that point. So luckily in order to mitigate issues like that, I'd already thought of
backup systems to backup systems. So I had the hydrovane on the back of the boat, which I used
for two days to get over into Longyear Bayonins Fulvard parking a steel boat on the hydrovane.
It's not something I want to try and do again, but we managed to get in. It was nearly midnight,
but it was obviously light because it was the Arctic summer up there. So it wasn't an issue
parking out other than the handling of the boat itself. And then the flooding obviously had
spare bilge pumps and I could wire those in. But in that particular scenario, it was more of a case
of pumping out manually and then steering on hydrovane to avoid the waves coming from the
wrong direction back over the bow because I didn't have enough wind at moments to leave the
hydrovane confidently searing whilst I went and started stripping and soldering wires and electrics
to get bilge pumps reconnected. So those are the two main issues that the Yevas having six at the
moment. Actually, they've both been six now. That's what we've been working on the last couple
of weeks. So she's had a bunch of welding done and drainage holes cut in the bow and that pipe
bunged off that used to lead to the bilges. And we've made a clamp for her steering that'll stop
the rudder quadrant coming down again. So yeah, those have been resolved now. So she's ready for
a new liquor paint and some anti-fouled and then we'll get back in the water hopefully.
I like your talent to my question because in asking what weren't you prepared for,
it was a very honest and kind of what didn't you know could happen that happened.
And it is fascinating that you had all of the preparation and norm as the backup to the
backups as you described, but preparing for the two of them coinciding at the same time was
um you know on paralleled. Obviously, it's quite a unique event in any sense for them both to occur
at the same time, let alone being solo sailing up in you know Northern Europe. Yeah, it was a bit
of an overload to the system that they both happened at the same time. And then you know,
steering on the hydrovan obviously when there's no wind. So part of the reason that I bought Yeva
obviously is because of the doghouse to keep me out of the elements. Now coming into Longyear by
and it was raining freezing cold sleep and I was manually steering on the hydrovan under
engine to come into port. So set up on deck holding onto that hydrovan in everything every layer that
I possibly owned. Pretty odd and miserable. But yeah, I managed to jury rig a fix to the steering
that managed to get us back to Scotland. But ultimately it was the repeated flooding of the
anchor locker into the bilges of the boat that caused me to sort of end the summer sea
charts in Scotland and work on getting Yeva back home. Makes a lot of sense and as we described
the subsequent stormy weather and prevailing south-westerly, nastelies that we've had over
the last like two months. Makes a lot of sense to focus on the fixes and getting ready for next year.
Yeah, it's about having enough time in the spring to go and sea trial knowing that I've still got
time to come back and reinforce it. It's not quite up to standards yet. Hope it would be. I mean,
now rain who have been working on the boat in the yard have done a cracking job. So
not anticipating any more issues, but we'll find out when I come and see you in Falmouth in January.
Yes, storm chasing, you will be. But it's still, I mean, I have to say, I was going to ask you.
I mean, a very natural question is, so what are some of your highest moments? And arguably,
if I'm an outsider sort of listening to you and, you know, seeing in some ways like the seriousness,
but also the sort of fondness of which you're talking at, there's like, that has to be one of
it. I mean, that that is in itself such of achievement to be able to pull all of that together,
relying entirely on yourself to be able to, you know, get the duro exorted and get back to
Scotland. And, you know, I appreciate sitting outside and like seemingly minus 10 breezes when
it's sleeting and you're like, it's the North Coast and Norway is a really tough situation to be in.
And yet you're, you know, there with your hand on the hydro rain, getting yourself into port. I mean,
that has to in some ways, you know, register as a big achievement and hopefully some really
high moments of what you've learned so far. Yeah, it does. It's one of those things that
I need to get better at is probably giving myself credit when it's due,
but rather than just thinking about what comes next and cracking on. But it was, yeah, it was
very rewarding to be able to fix the oversteering with what I had on the boat and get her home.
Yeah, it was not without its challenges, but I feel like those are the moments when I really
came into myself because I just loved it. You know, I sent one of the lads on my shorty
a message on the sat phone from the middle of the bar and saying, you know, boats going
around in circles need to investigate steering. And he sent me a text back saying, why don't you
have a nap? And then maybe you'll find that it's fine to get a... And I was like, as much as I
understood his point, he didn't word that very well. I said, I don't need another nap. I'm gonna say,
did you do failure? You know, so it was the last one I needed it really. But yeah, no, I loved it.
I love the challenge of it. And seeing, you know, seeing where we got to, I mean, even just going
to Svalbard, which isn't really on the routing for next year. So it's somewhere that I'm bad.
I got to see this summer, but seeing things like while Braluga whales, you know, is filming up the
fjord in front of the boat and glaciers and the walruses and the Arctic turns. I mean, it was just
an incredible, incredible experience and environment. Yeah, really chuffed with it.
I think also your trip coincided with some of the most spectacular
activity of the Roroboialis. Yeah, on the way back from Svalbard, I saw them a couple of times,
once off the north coast of Norway, and then once actually coming into Inverness in Scotland,
where we finished our sea trials. No stunning. Obviously, when I was up in Svalbard, that was
all Arctic daylight, Arctic summertime. So the night navigation started on the way back and as
did the Northern Lights, which was a good way of keeping you motivated at three o'clock in the morning.
Yeah, nowhere more spectacular in some ways to be viewing them than on your own, on your boat,
on an expedition like that, in the middle of the Northern Sea. I mean, bit of a pinch me moment,
I'm sure. It was definitely an emotional one. Yeah, there might have been a couple of tears
shed at that. Yeah, they're stunning. On that point, Ella, always like candidly, what were some of
the lowest points for you? The things that just either got too much or were frustrating. I mean,
appreciate that message from your shore team would have been either you laugh or you cry.
Right. The absolute lowest point was leaving Shetland. The intention when I left Shetland was
to sail to the northeastern coast of Scotland and start making my way down the east coast of England
to come home. Now, I've been waiting in Shetland, waiting out some storms to blow over. We had
sort of 68 knots of wind in the North Sea that I certainly wasn't set in sailing to. But knowing
that Yeva couldn't cope with a lot of water coming over the bow meant trying to route around as much
as the weather and the waves as possible. So Shetland, yeah, with the intention of going to
northeast Scotland. And after about eight or nine hours of waves on the nose again, found the boat
flooded to the floor once more. One of the two bilge pumps had failed, not both of them at that
point. So I had to make the decision to divert to Fair Isle, which I don't know if anyone listening
has been into Fair Isle, but if you have, you'll know that it is an incredibly narrow entrance
where you've got a cliff on one side, rocks on the other. And it's pitch-black dark. There's no
lighting of any voyage. There's no lighting once you get into the bay. So getting in there in the
absolute chucking rain in between sort of running downstairs to manually pump back outside onto the
steering, trying to get sails down, heading into this bay. Once I got into the breakwater and I was
out of the waves, I still couldn't even see the dock that I was supposed to be docking on. And
through my torch, through the rain, couldn't see it either. So I was just sat in the middle of this
bay trying to keep her off of the shadows, trying to get the sails down. So sort of running from
the helm station to the sails to the manual bilge pump to the helm station to the sails,
trying to get benders out. Until finally, these two guys came down to the dock and lit up the
floodlights and sort of lit up the dock at about, this must have been about two or three o'clock in
the morning, and came and took my lines and helped get you over ashore. And that was the moment I
really sort of felt like I'd had in arse. That was quite a spectacle over the evening. So the
following morning, I slipped lines just after eight and re-diverted to Wick. And then in that
crossing, sort of 80 miles to Wick or whatever it was, I managed to keep her more beam onto the
sails so she wouldn't flood again. And then waited in Wick for the right conditions to be able to
get to the NES where we finally put her on a truck for the way home because the flooding was just,
I mean, that was about the fourth time she flooded through the anchor locker by that point.
So I mean, I'm sitting here, no one can see me but I mean, generally aghast and I have almost,
I have got goosebumps because as a combination of factors, I think most people, I think, would
guard against being in this kind of context. Obviously, when you almost are choice less,
let's say, or certainly it's the best choice to be making out of an unpalatable bunch of choices.
Well done. I mean, that's bloody good. Sea person ship.
Not quite that way. Yeah, it was a relief to get her in this open sound and then obviously get us
back to mainland safe and sound, but it was quite intense. Emotional and sort of physical few days,
those ones. There was a lot going on. But we got there in the end, we got back safe and
very much. It's incredible. I mean, it's obviously so exciting, yeah, listening to you,
but I also appreciate it. I think my threshold may have been a little bit lower than your
threshold. I should have given that. I probably would have cried at your friend's message. Put it out.
That's what you know, when you haven't got choice, you've just got to get on with it. In part,
I probably have my dad to thank for that sort of military mindset approach to things. But
you deal with it, deal with the emotions later, just get on, get yourself safe and sorted and
yeah, I'm pretty much myself that I'm capable of doing that.
Hello, when we were sitting on your about the summer week, we had, I remember looking at your
fantastic charts of literally the Arctic, right? And to the untrained eye appreciating, obviously,
you understand the geography of the system, but we're talking about the sort of literally the apex
of the planet and the way that the wind and the air moves as well as the water isn't like
obviously any other coastline on the planet. What did you notice? Like what was the weather
like in the general climate in terms of the temperature and the wind and the precipitation?
And is that something that you had expected? To be honest, both Norway and Svalbard were a lot
warmer than I would have ever have anticipated. So in Tromso, we were walking around in shorts and
T-shirts and Svalbard just two days before I arrived there reached a record temperature of 22 degrees
Celsius this year, which is mad because the extent now where there is current debate happening,
whether Svalbard is still allowed to be classified as Arctic desert or not, because the warmer
temperatures have caused so much precipitation that there's so much more rain and runoff from
the snow melting on mountains and into the fjord that they are currently redefining
to whether Svalbard still fits that definition of Arctic desert. It was quite harrowing to see
fast hand. Obviously, it's the first time I've been up there, but having videoed and documented
what I did and putting it out online, I've received comments from people who would say,
you know, we were there 10 years ago and wowed how different does it look now and, you know,
what a shame to see that, you know, the fjords no longer freeze over like they used to and it was
definitely eye-opening in that sense. And then as far as sort of pressure systems, there's definitely
more heavy weather in the North Sea in the summer than I was possibly expecting. I was expecting
it to probably get worse more towards September, but I was up there in July and August and still
having to route around quite a lot of storms, but mostly purely because of the issues with
the Ava rather than the not being able to be out in those conditions. And, you know, if we look at
climate models and things at the moment, we'll see the polar jet stream drifting from the South
and the whole world of change going on up there that we keep an eye on that makes forecasting
next year's expedition quite difficult in the sense that there's no sort of prevailing wind
that's consistent enough to know that I'll be beating into it for X-mantel miles and then
sailing downwind for X-mantel miles like we're seeing from the Vondeglobes and stuff. It's a
very unusual place to try and predict. Well, it's already unusual, isn't it? I think, like you said.
And then this year, certainly, with it already being unusual just by virtue of its geography
on the planet, and we're already seeing, I mean, this year has been incredibly pronounced in terms
of odd weather. And I say that in just bucking the trend effectively. We've had this exceptional
high pressure system sitting really high and this band of low pressure whacking Europe. I mean,
for most of the year, I mean, you're in places like Italy as early as, say, April, in March time,
just being under deluges of water. So you're combining those two factors, right, of the
already changing climate, but also being in the most unique part of the planet arguably for weather
systems. Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of next year's expedition is going to be rooted on the go
almost. So there'll be a combination of my short team at home sending me updated models and
info that they're seeing, but also me using my own eyeballs and common sense and knowledge of what
cloud means, what's coming next and playing it almost not quite, I don't want to say by year.
There's obviously going to be planning and support, but yeah, being over vigilant and
updated forecast daily rather than relying on one for a three day prediction kind of thing.
I think it's a poignant reminder in some ways about what your expedition was also
to highlight and describing it firsthand. We initially began this conversation on that very
premise around about our ice caps and how they've been perhaps the biggest, most referred to proxy
for the alarming rate of temperature change on our planet, how they've been preserved for
millions of years and now we're seeing exponential increase in the melting and your description
of the sort of Svelbard Arctic desert changing is quite pronounced. I mean, it's these inhospitable
and impassable and just somewhat remote and as you said, desert like areas are changing
incredibly dramatically and that you even in Northern Norway and could experience that much
ahead of even heading up as far as the, you know, into the Arctic Circle proper. I mean,
that's quite something. Did that bring it home some way in terms of the charities that you're
supporting and also the awareness raising element of your mission too?
Yeah, it absolutely did. I think one of the big things that you find when you go up into the
Arctic, whether it's on the Norwegian coast or up in Svelbard, is that everyone living there
is acutely aware of what's going on around. Whereas, you know, down here on the South Coast
of England or around the middle of the Caribbean, we might not be as in tune to what's happening
up in the Arctic. So it did sort of boost that ambition to try and spread awareness and link
people to what's happening up there better, but also to help the charities Pona Bears International
and Ocean Conservancy with what they're doing. And that's what this whole campaign has always
been based about, you know, is both raising awareness and helping NGOs that are out there
trying to fight for a better future for the Arctic. So yeah, it really did bring all that home for me.
And I think that's partly what has given me the boost and the energy to keep going through
yet another winter shipyard reset to be able to get out there and really highlight what I'm trying to
try and showcase next year.
And given that this was also a bonding session between you and Yeva, your boat, right? I mean,
that was an incredibly personal relationship. Did you notice, aside from obviously the opportunities
for fixes like the anchor locker and the rudder fixing, did you notice that Yeva operate differently
in that environment at all? And it sounds like an odd question, but I'm just thinking about, you know,
the density of cold air in comparison to to wolf. I mean, that does change the way you sail, right?
Yeah, it does. Fairman, like I said, we were up there in August this year, and it was unbelievably
warm to sort of wreck on new highs. So we haven't yet had the sort of ice in the water experience
that we'll be getting around the Northwest Passage in Greenland next summer. But Yeva handled the
conditions beautifully. She's got a chined hull, which was amazing in the larger offshore seas.
She's not so good in choppy waters trying to head up a fjord or a river. She's quite crap.
It's choppy and close. I think that's fair, Ella.
You know? Yeah, it's helped me get to know how to sail her, obviously, because we've only done
sort of shorter passages around the South Coast, being the before this big trip.
And now we've done well over three and a half thousand miles single-handed. And one of the things
I really had to, you know, sort of urge myself to keep doing was to shake out a reef, you know,
let her have more sail plan. I forget that she's a heavier, slower boat. So it's helped me, yeah,
fine-tune my sail trim and sailing on her as well. But I've got every confidence in her. And I know
I always have, despite the issues we had this year. So now that both of those have been fixed,
yeah, I'm going to take some time off over Christmas to see my family and then hopefully
get back out in January and go sailing on my baby boat again.
I'm just really looking forward to it, eh?
But like, yeah, it's very strange living in a house again after being on board
this, only temporarily whilst she's out of the water.
Well, I think on that note, and in the spirit of well-deserved rest of which you, more than most
of us after this year, are perhaps in need of, particularly in view of your
adventures upcoming. Ella, it's always such a pleasure. And Raymond looks forward to us
discussing further over the course of next year and your adventures, what you find out about
yourself, your boat, and as importantly, the ecosystem up north as you find out.
Thank you so much for having me back and yeah, I can't wait to have another chat.
Ella hit bit solo sailor and next year, attempting the world first non-stop
circling navigation of the Arctic Circle. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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