Welcome back to the Clean Sailors podcast. Let's talk about sea, marine, sailing and
keep it clean. I'm your host Holly, founder of Clean Sailors and a sailor myself with
a passion for the health of our mighty oceans. Through conversations with experts, innovators
and activists, all working towards improving the health of our seas, we're showcasing the
people and projects, changing the way things are done.
I am exceptionally excited today to be speaking with Teresa Zabel, the Olympic sailor, multi-award
winning sailor who's also dedicated much of her time and energy to helping preserve and
conserve our oceans. Teresa, thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you for this opportunity. I'm really happy to be here.
Teresa, I'd love to hear first you really sailor to sailor. Your history was sailing.
Where did it start and what have you been up to?
Well, I was brought up in the south of Spain in the province of Malaga on the Costa del
Sol. We were by the sea and I remember when I was a kid and we were taken down to this
sort of, it was called a nautical club, but it hardly had any boats. It was more a sort
of swimming pool just above the beach and all the kids of the area would go there and spend
some of their and run up and down and so on. That's where I first discovered that there
were some sailing boats. They just had two or three of some of the members of this club
and they would sort of drag them down past the sand down to the shore and get them ready.
I was absolutely fascinated by this. I remember, I don't know, I must have been six or seven.
As soon as I saw one of the boats being dragged down on top of these sort of fender rollers,
I would go and just sit on the sand and watch them put the boat together, put the sails
up and go out to sea. I sort of secretly hoped that one day one of them would say, you know,
come aboard and we'll take you with us. That never happened. Then they started a proper
sailing club when I was about 10. My first experience wasn't really that good because
it was extremely windy. It was cold. I was cold and, you know, I was an optimist that
had about this much water in the bottom. It's like sitting in a bathtub, you know, with
cold water and the boom kept hitting my head. So I wasn't too impressed. But then I went
back when I was 12, 13 and I was a bit bigger and the weather was better and that's when,
you know, I absolutely fell in love with the sport.
That's a fantastic story. And I know our listeners won't be able to see me smiling at your story
of the optimist because although we've ended up in very different places, obviously, you're
an exceptional sailor, I too started an optimist and I absolutely hated it. It was exactly
as you described, it was wet, cold, lonely, never done it before, didn't have a clue.
And I didn't return to it. I carried on much later and turned to blue water cruising and
yachting instead. So having the courage to return to something that ultimately became
not only a passion, but you have been internationally recognised for. You stopped short, however,
and I appreciate you're a humble person, but I am going to tease this out of you. You returned
to sailing and actually did incredibly well with it. So why did you stick to it and what
did you ultimately achieve?
I stuck to it because I didn't know something behind my mind obviously said, you're going
to like this. And I had friends also that were going and starting, you know, the sailing
courses and so on. When you're that age, 12, 13, you like to be where your friends are.
So yeah, I went back and the weather was incredible. So I started sailing again in optimist because
that's what there was. I completely agree with you that and I've always said it optimist
is not about to engage children because as you say, you're alone, you're just suddenly
sort of popped into a boat by yourself and you have to learn how to manage it. And if
the weather isn't that favourable or it's windy or it's cold, it puts lots of people
off. I much prefer sort of, you know, collective boats to start people in sailing, especially
when they're young children. And then they can go from there. In Spain, we do do a lot
of school sailing in optimist. And I think it would be so much better if we did it in
different classes of boats like they do in other countries, but that's the way it is.
So I passed on quite quickly to the Euro class because the national championship of the Euro
class was going to be in my sailing club when I was 15. So I started sailing in Europe when
I was, you know, just under 14, I think. And I was quite small in fact, in size. It was
quite a challenge to be able to manage the boat. Then I never really had very good equipment
because my parents couldn't buy me boats. So I was just sort of using the leftovers that
were in the sailing club. And that's basically what I used until I went quite far ahead. But
anyhow, I managed to get hold of a decent boat for that national championship. And I ended
up winning the women's event of the national championship. And that really sort of gave
me, you know, sort of, wow, maybe I'm not so bad at this. And then I continued. But my
dream was to go to the Games, to the Olympic Games. When I was 11, I discovered the Olympic
Games through the TV. And I absolutely knew that day that I wanted to go there. And, you
know, I'd started sailing. And when I decided I wanted to go to the Games, it could have
been in any sport because I wasn't really practicing any sport at a high level. I had
done a lot of athletics. I was a pretty decent middle distance runner. I'd started paying
10 years. So, you know, I did quite a bit of, I was quite good all rounder, but I hadn't
really started sailing seriously. And when I did start sailing seriously, I thought,
what a pity, this is a sport that I love, but I can't go to the Olympic Games in it
because there were no women's events. If you did want to go, you'd have to beat the men.
And that was quite difficult. There are some sailors that actually managed to get there,
Paul Elstroms, Dora and Kathy Foster went in representing Great Britain in LA 84. But
I would never have beaten the men. And where I lived, there was no Olympic sailing anyhow.
We didn't have Olympic classes. So it was just like impossible. But then in 1984, after
the LA Games, the 470 was included for women for the next Olympics. And, you know, when
I read about this, I thought, wow, this has been done just for me. So I think every woman
or every girl that sailed all around the world and had any kind of aspirations just automatically
jumped into the 470. And that's what I did as well. And I just put my whole life upside
down because I went to live in Barcelona, which is where the team was and which is where
I could progress because there were other 470 sailors there. Had I stayed in my hometown,
I wouldn't have progressed. You need to know what other people are doing. And so yeah,
I progressed quite rapidly. I won the trials to go to the Silver 88 Games. And the big
setback was that I was left at home. When the list came out of who was going quite unexpectedly,
my name was not on the list. And this was a real letdown. I gave up sailing for some
months and I was really upset and so on. And I always say it was the biggest letdown I
had in my sporting career. Then after a few months, I thought, well, my dream was to go
to the Games. It's still possible. And the next games are even in my home country. So
let's go back with a stronger mentality. I recognized that that setback really made
me a lot stronger. And the mentality from there on was like, okay, you're not going
to win. You're really going to battle all the statistics kind of mentality. And yeah,
that's basically what I did.
It literally is what you did at home in the 1992 Olympics. You took home gold.
That's right. I took home gold in 1992. Yeah, that's right. And then I continued four years
later, four years on, and I went to Atlanta in 1996. And I took gold again. And then I
was deciding whether I wanted to continue and go to Sydney 2000. And I was a mum after
Atlanta. So my daughter was born in 97 Olympia. And then I went back into sailing and I returned
to all the route, a year, and then Blake and all the big regattas. And yeah, I was really
happier of how I was performing because I saw that I was comfortable in the boat again.
And you know, in the end of the 90s, there weren't that many women that had been mums
and gone back into high level sport. So there was always like this question mark of, will
I manage to go back to my previous level? And I could see that yes, I was there. But
in Spain, we have a very sort of difficult system to be able to get any kind of help,
you know, financial help. And you have to be in the first eight in the world championships
to secure your financial help for the next year. So I had financial help for the year
that I went back because I had won gold in Atlanta. But then that year, I had to be in
the first eight. And I was ninth in the world championships by one point. And so yeah, it
was quite an interesting set up of events, because people started saying, well, they're
not going to take your financial help away because you're the only Spanish athlete with
two gold medals. And so I said, yeah, but we've been fighting for many years so that
a woman can be a mom or a man can, you know, be injured and not have the financial help
taken away. And this was something that we've been working on for quite a few years. So
when my issue came up, it was quite a big debate all around the country of what was
going to happen. And in the end, after two, three months, they sort of came back and said,
well, okay, we're going to make an exception with you. They said to me and so I turned
around and said, no, I don't want an exception. I want all athletes to be able to have the
same privileges, which I don't really even think as a privilege. I mean, if you can't
go sailing because you're injured or you're a mom, I think we have to take this into account.
And it wasn't going to be taken into account. So in the end, I said, right, well, then if
this isn't going to be taken into account, I'm going to quit thinking that, you know,
they would sort of turn around and say, well, no, let's take it into account for everybody.
And it didn't happen. And so I ended up quitting. And it was, you know, a bit of a weird way
of quitting, to be honest. But I always say that a person has to have a goal in mind. And
as soon as I quit it from sailing, my daughter was one. And I decided I wanted to spend more
time with her. So I did. And I started setting up the foundation that is now 25 years old,
to be able to take care of the seas and to be able to sort of everything that I learned
during 20 years of going out sailing just about every day. I always say it's like going
to the cinema and having the first row seat in a film that the other people don't even
get to go to the cinema. The experience I had and what I'd seen, I had to share it with
everybody else to raise awareness that our seas are in danger and that we have to do
something about it.
Firstly, it takes exceptional courage, you know, back in the first instance, in the late
80s, when you mentioned about not being on the list of the Olympics, you know, it takes
a lot of courage to keep going because I think it's a very easy point. It's easy. It's actually
a very difficult point at times where many would drop out and say, okay, I'm not good
enough, I need to find something else. So that's testament to your resilience in that
sense to keep going. And ultimately, you then, I mean, it's almost poetic that, you know,
the doors open for the 470 in the Olympics, and that you were able to enter it. It was
at home and take home gold. It's almost everything's aligning. I mean, it really is quite special
and well deserved, obviously. But I appreciate it's fascinating to listen to you talking
about, you know, the circumstance by which you have Olympia, you've got this one year
old daughter, you're a professional sailor top of your game. And it's a conversation
that we're still having. And I won't mention names, but there's obviously two recent examples
whereby exceptional female sailors, optional sailors in this instance have been somewhat
penalised or otherwise by virtue of having become mothers. So it's a great pity that
it's something that still exists within our industry as in lots of industries. But the
fact that you turn this into a purpose and you mentioned a sort of new vision and new
goals with something quite exceptional. What was it about the foundation? What was the
sort of inception you mentioned having, you know, the front row seat, I understand you're
on the water, you're seeing the ocean, you're appreciating the ocean daily. How did that
translate into setting up a foundation? And what have been your vision and goals for the
E.K. Mar foundation?
Well, when I was a young girl, I remember going out to see one day in my hometown. And
there was a river that sort of came down into the sea quite close to where our sailing club
was. And it had rained heavily because in the south of Spain, when it rains, it pours
down. And so many things that were in this river ended up in the sea. And we went out
sailing and there was things floating everywhere. And it was like, what is all this doing here?
So when I went back into the club, I started asking all the adults, did you see that this
and that and that were floating? And they sort of looked at me saying, yes, you know,
as usual. And I said, well, where does it come from? And the truth is that many years
ago, I mean, we're talking of 1980 or end of the 70s, 40 something years ago, we used
to dispose lots of things into nature. And that's the truth. And we didn't do it, trying
to harm anything. It was just the way we acted. And so it was like normal. But I didn't see
it as normal even when I was, I think I was 13 at the time. So I started asking, why doesn't
somebody do something about this? And that question of why doesn't somebody do something
about this? It just sort of came with me all my sporting career. So when I was coming towards,
you know, the end of my sporting career, I started thinking, well, I want to be somebody
that does something about this, because there still isn't any somebody around. And that's
when I started doing things before I started Ecomar Foundation, to be honest, I started
doing things with kids and in sailing clubs and in schools and so on, in a smaller way,
they didn't have that much time. And so when I decided to finish my sporting career and
you know, not continue in Olympic sailing, I came to live in Madrid, because that's where
my husband's work was. I mean, Madrid isn't the best place for sailing or for going to
the sea anyhow, because the closest spot is about 300 kilometers away. And so I thought,
well, it's also a way of staying engaged and connected to the sea in our way. And so that's
when I decided, okay, I'm going to start a foundation. It's not going to have my name,
the foundation, because many athletes, they start a foundation with their own name. And
basically it's to continue their legacy issue, we could say. I mean, here in Spain, we have
the Rafael Nadal Foundation or Paul Gasol, you know, the incredible sportsmen. But my
intention was, okay, I'm going to start this, but then maybe somebody else will get the relay
in a few years. And we can be quite a few people sort of pulling this cart along. So
it was like a generic name. And yeah, I do have athletes that sort of lend us their support
and do things with us. But it's true also that I've been sort of the, you know, the
visible head of this for the last 25 years.
And in terms of you work a lot on sort of education and young people and sort of children,
what's it about that sort of generation and grouping of let's argue, just demographic,
that's so important to helping achieve our visions for cleaner, healthier seas?
When you want to change the way people think, which is what we have to do because adults
or people, you know, my parents, for example, went to tool conscious that the seas were
in any danger, even the people from my generation basically weren't, you've got to go and work
with people that are receptive. And the most receptive people that we have on this planet,
children, and between sort of nine, 12 years of age is when they're most receptive. I'd
spoken about this a lot with teachers and people that sort of worked in this kind of
area. And so we decided to work with children at the moment in a coma, we have like four
main pillars of in which we act. One of them is in schools. And in fact, now all the information
that because that was the first pillar that we started, all the information that we did
in schools for the last 25 years, it's now on a digital platform. And you know, the children
can just go in with their school, go through the sort of 10 step course and know about
what are our oceans giving us. I mean, I think there are two things that are very important.
One is to be conscious that there's a problem. Because if you're not conscious, if you're
not aware that there's a problem, you're not going to try and find a solution. It's not
necessary. So that's step number one. And then step number two is why are our seas and
oceans important to us? Many people still aren't aware that more than 50% of the oxygen we're
breathing come from there. So, you know, lots of times when I speak with kids and so on,
and I say, Well, have you ever tried breathing half the amount that you're breathing? And
they sort of look at you and say, Well, obviously, no, I was asthmatic when I was a kid. So I
have had these issues where I had the sensation I was breathing less than what I needed to
breathe. And it's not nice. It's something that you definitely want to avoid. So we say,
Okay, well, if you want to go into that situation, let's continue as we're doing now, because
we're going to completely rot our seas in the next years, decades or whenever. And we
have a great example here in Spain, because I don't know if you know the Mad Menor, it's
like a very small part of the sea that's actually closed in, it just has a small entrance, it's
not a lake because it does connect with the Mediterranean Sea. And it's on the east coast
of Spain. And it's really a beautiful place that has been completely destroyed. It's a
big agricultural area close to that. And whenever it rains, everything just goes into the sea.
And it's just basically killed the sea. So that is the example of what will happen in
the Mediterranean in a few years, if we don't change. And so we always speak about this.
So anyhow, going back to our four pillars, we have the education, then we have a program
that is like called Green Pole Icomar, Green Pole means purgy in English. Okay, so we have
this, we started with sailing schools, but now we're also in surf diving and all the
sports that are related to the water. And what we do is that we deliver them all the
equipment they need, including a logbook, et cetera, and all the videos, a process of
how to go through. And we do meetings with all the teachers that are in these sailing
schools so that they can do workshops with the kids, also explaining them, okay, we're
going out to see what does the sea give us? What are we giving it back? What do we have
to do? What do we have to change basically? And these workshops change every year around
so that kids don't sort of look at you and say, I've already done that. So we go changing
them yearly. And we're now about 120 schools all over the country, most of them on the
coast, evidently, some inland and on lakes. And we're also in Portugal. And we have 15,000
children in every summer going through this program that we have. Then our third program
is beach cleanups. So we go to many beaches. Our team goes to about 70 a year, and we
clean up the beaches. And we do this with kids from sailing schools, from schools. But we
also do it with adults. One of the things that we've done over the past years that we've
really grown this in the sense of corporate volunteering, because it's a great way to get
the adults instead of spending their time on other issues in corporate volunteering,
coming and cleaning our beach and definitely learning what's important about our beaches.
Because again, the adults still aren't aware of what the sea is giving us. So every time
we go to a beach, and we maybe will collect a tonne and a half of trash, which is important.
But we always say the most important thing is that they've learned things today that
they're going to take home. And that's really the key. We always start with a masterclass
and we start speaking about, okay, we're going to find things like this, and we're going
to find things like this. Where does this come from? Why does it appear here? Should
never I mean, for example, you know, earbuds, why earbuds on the beach? We don't go to the
beach to clean our ears. Why are they there? So people get to understand the process. And
then we start speaking more about the materials that are used in all these things. For example,
a plastic bottle. Where does the plastic bottle come from? Everyone says the supermarket.
Yeah, but before that, where does it come from? How is this made? So we start speaking
about circular economy and how our resources are finite. And if we don't change, we're
going to run out. So we sort of do a global vision of the whole problem. And then we have
a fourth pillar, which I absolutely adore, which is scientific projects. Now we don't
do these alone. We have to do these in liaison with other associations, foundations, etc.
And we've done quite a few over the past, which are a really interesting one that didn't
get much feedback because it coincided with COVID. But all around the western part of
the Mediterranean, we went with a boat sailing around and we were getting pieces of water
out of the water column. And all of this has been analyzed to see what kind of chemical
contaminants exist in different parts of the med. And we compared where the rivers come
out to other parts in between. And it's really, really interesting. And we shared this with
all of the scientific community. And now we're in one that we've been working on for five
years and that hopefully this year will actually be under the water doing it, which is replanting
marine plants in the Mediterranean. And that's going to really make a difference of the quality
of our waters.
The fact that you also placed on the Mediterranean is also quite poignant given that it's one
of the most popular boating sailing hotspots on the planet. I mean, for a good reason,
it's such a great mix of weather and wind, a lot of the time or lack thereof, and just
the scenery and the environment. But appreciating that it is one of the most polluted seas in
the world, if not the most overture it being captive, as you pointed out, what has been
probably the most alarming statistic or shocking statistic that you've learned in your time
about the health of our oceans?
Well, one of the things that I think is quite shocking and that we're still not really
talking about too much is the nano plastics. Okay, we've gone through plastics in our ocean,
then we've gone through micro plastics in our ocean. And there's tons of studies about
this and all the regattas, you know, around the world and so on, there's throwing nets
and getting samples and so on and so on. But there's so many pieces of plastic in our ocean
that are not collected in any net and that we're throwing it there every day. For example,
we're also working on another project that we're working with one of the major Korean
washing machine companies of having filters that are actually embedded into the washing
machine. And this is something that we've been working on for about 10 years, all the
studies of what happens when we wash our clothes. Every time we wash our clothes, we're throwing
nano plastics into the ocean. And that's what we're eating, because you cannot collect them.
If you throw a plastic bottle into the ocean, well, hopefully it can be collected. This
cannot. There's no net that actually collects it up. And it's on our plate every day. And
that's why we're eating a credit card of plastic every week, because this is a reality. No
one discusses this anymore. And we have plastic in our blood, in our organs, in our body,
in our skin. It's everywhere. And I'm on the board of a foundation that we tackle autism.
And there's studies now in the US that autism in kids that has grown exponentially over
the last years is directly related to plastic. So I'm not against plastic. I think plastic
has brought many advantages to our lives, but I'm against the use of many types of plastic
and the disposal and the lack of recycling and all the like you said, plastic is fundamentally
revolutionized society. We build our boats to medical equipment, like you said, the cotton
buds that unfortunately we're finding on the beach. But appreciating, you know, whether
it's a single use type of plastic or whether it's the fact that we haven't really a significant
formal recycling capacity globally for plastic. And everything that we believe we recycle
goes into a bin actually the majority of it doesn't actually get recycled at the end and
does end up in landfill. So it's a complex issue, but it's still probably one of the
biggest proponents of environmental pollution for sure in our waters. In contradiction to
that, what's probably the most exciting, positively surprising statistic that you've come across
in your time?
I think the amount of people that are actually now engaged with the problem. I was in a school
last week and it was absolutely amazing. I don't think I've ever been so amazed at a
school. This is a school that's on the coast of Spain, near where this small sea that is
completely polluted is, it's a school close to there. And the engagement of the teachers
and the kids was absolutely incredible because they've been working on for the last years
to find ways and they're doing it with sort of sponges that they collect and new furs
and all this kind of stuff of sowing them together. And we can put it here where the
agricultural water enters the sea and this will absorb, you know, the phosphates and
so on. But we're talking about they do this with 12, 14 year old kids. And when I saw
that the actual level that they'd reached and what they'd done, it's obviously a way
of saying when these kids are adults, not all of them obviously, but lots of them will
probably be involved with finding solutions to these problems. And that's what we need.
We need people that actually, you know, come aboard and say, right, I'm going to work for
this because this is really important for society.
I think it's like you said, sort of young people and children are, they are magic. In
my experience, there is something so fundamentally exciting about working with minds who still
see things differently. Almost the cynicism hasn't crept in and the kind of risk mentality
hasn't crept into such a great degree. So there is something very still fresh and creative
and imaginative about perhaps the way they think about things. Again, not all of them,
I appreciate, but I do hope that we foster enough of it that we can build, you know,
the society of tomorrow with those kind of young minds. And Theresa, given that you are
a sailor, what would be your one ask of sailors globally, given that we can be very natural
ambassadors for our waters because we use them? What would be your ask?
I think we have to spread the message. We have to spread the message. There are so many
people that don't know about the challenges that our oceans are facing. And we really
need to tell them about it. Because as I said before, if you don't know there's a problem,
you're never going to try and find a solution. And this is something that we really have
to work on. And sailing is a great sport, you know, we just go with the wind and we
don't contaminate while we're sailing. And another thing that I'm working on from a
Comad Foundation and also on the board of all sailing trust is the circularity of the
materials that we use. Because we have a big problem here in Spain that fiberglass is not
recycled and it's not accepted anywhere. You know, when you go to the sort of green points
where you can take used oil and so on and so on, they don't accept fiberglass. So where
do you throw it? And it ends up in nature. And this is something that we really need
to be able to use materials that can then have a second life or will not end up contaminating
nature when they finish.
And it leads on to my next question, which was then what would your ask be of the wider
marine industry itself? Would that again be around circularity and spreading the message
and just inspiring and educating our industry more broadly on the topics and how we can
change?
Yeah, I think circularity is part of the future. I mean, when you buy a car or when you buy
a washing machine, you're paying a certain amount of money when you're buying it to take
care of that equipment at the end of life. And in boating, we're not doing this. And
so part of it is legislation. It needs to be legislated so that everybody when they buy
a boat, they're taken care of what's going to happen to that boat when you finished,
you know, when it's not able to sail anymore. And then also invest, it's already known
how it can be recycled. This is done. People have done it. But now it needs to be implemented.
And you cannot implement it if we're not all on the same page. So I think we all need to
jump onto the same page and make it happen.
And it's implementing it at scale, like you said, there are pockets. And it's time that
we join them all together.
That's right.
Teresa, I can only thank you for joining me today for this conversation. It's been an
absolute pleasure, not least because of your renowned and inspiring sailing history, also
as a mother, but also obviously as an activist for our oceans and what we're trying to achieve
with conservation. So thank you so much for your time. I wish you all the very best with
the Ecomar Foundation. Take care.
Thank you, Holly. It's been a real pleasure to be here speaking with you and to spread
the message. And let's hope we have more and more people joining us on this journey, which
is a really fantastic journey.
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