Welcome back to the Clean Sailors podcast. Let's talk about sea, marine, sailing and
keep it clean. I'm your host Holly, founder of Clean Sailors and a sailor myself with
a passion for the health of our mighty oceans. Through conversations with experts, innovators
and activists, all working towards improving the health of our seas, we're showcasing the
people and projects, changing the way things are done.
During the 1950s, glass fiber reinforced polyester, GRP, FRP fiberglass composites displaced wood
as the material choice for boats. As it's easier to manufacture, smoother hydrodynamic
surfaces and significantly reduce the maintenance cost of keeping a vessel. Such materials revolutionise
not just the production of vessels, leisure boats in particular, but also the accessibility
of boating to a much wider audience. However, the durability of the composite materials
is now becoming an issue, given that many boats are no longer acquired and disposal
is not trivial or cheap. Today, I'm joined by two teams changing the way boats are built.
Welcome to Alessandro Sagni from NL Composite and Patrick Picchetti from ReCarbon. Hi guys,
thank you for joining me. Hi Holly.
I look forward to hearing about the work that you're doing for the industry. But first,
Alessandro, tell us a little bit about NL Composite. What do you do? How big are you?
And what do you specialise in? NL Composite is an italian startup, a
clean-packed company that operates in the field of recyclable composite materials.
We were founded by the end of 2019. Actually, we are five-shot holders that are working
within the company and we are trying to revolutionise the way to make composite, to make this industry
more sustainable. In these years, we have in-depth studied the problem and we have developed
some materials that meet this recyclability constraint.
And when you say problem, we're going to come onto that in just a second because it's a
really important part of this conversation. But Patrick, I want to hear about ReCarbon.
What do you do and what are your values? Hi everybody. Thank you again, Holly, to host
us. I'm Patrick Picchetti, an aeronautical engineer and I'm actually the project manager
of ReCarbon. ReCarbon is an italian innovative startup funded last May 2022. So we are really
young, we can say. Our approach is transforming the carbon fibre waste into new valuable intermediate
products in different forms, different components like organo sheets or sandwich panels in order
to contribute in building a new sustainable and circular economy. That's mainly what we
do. So we use recycled carbon fibre waste. We transform it in new intermediate products
in order to fulfil the needs of the market in terms of new components. So we transfer
the waste into valuable components. That's it. You say that's it but it sounds incredibly
complicated. Obviously, merely changing carbon into something else. But I really want to
talk about some of the boat building. How boat building materials have changed over
the years and actually why is it a problem, Alessandro? I would say that building materials
did not change much over the last 80 years, since 1940s when the industry switched from
wood based vessels to glass fibre based vessels. And this factory is that because glass fibre
has incredible properties in terms of strength, stiffness, lightness and it's extremely durable.
So it does not need a lot of maintenance but on the other hand this leads to the fact that
it cannot be easily disposed once we need to get rid of these materials. Today glass
fibre is used also in many other different industrial fields from the automotive to winter
mineblades. So a problem that I would say was born with the boat building is now spread
over all the industrial fields and with the same technological issues and the same issues
in terms of recyclability and management of the disposed specimens. Do you know anywhere
in the world that's actually recycling successfully GRP or FRP? Or is the only solution really
now to look at how we're producing new material? Over the years there have been a lot of efforts
in trying to find a sustainable solution for recycling glass fibre let's say but none
of them was really successful and this is because the recycling of glass fibre up now
is done by using a lot of energy and a lot of effort which means that it's really expensive
and you get the product that does not have the mechanical properties that have originated
in glass fibre. So you're spending money to have a worse product and this is not feasible
for the industry. So in the end there is not like a circular economy for glass fibre because
it's not economical. When you say obviously you're spending a lot of time and money but
also energy, I mean it's a very chemical heavy process to start breaking down GRP, FRP, right?
So there's a point where you try and become perhaps sustainable in reusing a product but
ultimately you're incredibly unsustainable by the amount of energy and otherwise you've
got to consume by trying to change that product into something that's again useful like you
said. Was this NL Composites main focus was trying to build a composite that could work
function very differently and ultimately be reused again? We see that there is not like
a really promising way in finding recyclable, a sustainable way to recycle glass fibre and
carbon fibre. We tried to change the paradigm and we changed the materials involved in creating
these composite materials. And so as you said before historically composite glass fibre
and composite material in general are based on thermostat raisins and we find a way to
use thermoplastic raisins that have some issues from the manufacturing point of view but if
well treated it can allow an easy and a feasible recyclability of the composite material.
So the process of building the composite because it's thermoplastic resin effectively you can
more easily break it down at the end in comparison to GRP FRP.
The process is the same but all the kind of material involved in the process. We substitute
thermostat raisins with the thermoplastic raisin to allow recyclability and also we implement
natural fibres instead of synthetic fibres to be more environmentally friendly.
So you're reducing the content also of kind of man-made synthetic materials and substituting
it with the natural ones. I appreciate that Clean Sailors and NL Composite did launch
a recyclable dinghy in the last couple of years. I can say no more on the matter at
this point but I think it was an incredibly revolutionary. I know we've used that word
a lot but it really is quite exciting to see how the technologies have shifted so quickly
and something that arguably the industry has grappled with for at least a decade now sincerely
around end of life materials. How boat builders such as yourself are actually forwarding the
process and showing what's possible and actually by both of you incredibly small and incredibly
new teams. So it's really, really exciting. I appreciate this is a new field in some ways
for recarbon Patrick. I appreciate obviously sustainable engineering is really what your
company is about. Why was this relationship with NL Composite and the marine industry
exciting for recarbon?
In recarbon we started producing new intermediate products based on recycled carbon fibre especially
and how Alessandro said, the main focus was on the kind of raising. So we produce and
we focus on the thermoplastic raising. Our products are mainly based on thermoplastic
raisins so not only to reuse the waste so the recyclable material but also the recyclability
of them. So in terms of reuse the end of life it's better of course. We at the time back
two years ago we were producing all the organo sheets so the we can say the small thickness.
They asked about the possibility, the feasibility of making something thicker in order to reach
the correct component for the nautical market for the boats. So we started an internal R&D
process and we ended with the beginning of this year with the patent pending technology
for these kind of sandwich panels, all thermoplastics. So they are basically made with thermoplastic
recycled carbon fibre skins and different P and different kind of thermoplastic forms
without the using the addition of additives, bonding, etc. So it's 100% thermoplastic and
also it has a better managing of the end of life due to the fact that it doesn't have
any glues, any thermoset glues, anything like this, any additives. So you can also recover
the material and recycle in other components or new components, etc. So basically the starting
point was a meeting back in 2022. So we were the newborn and when we met but in less than
two years we have the product. We already made a demonstrator, a component in their boat
they presented last year in the Ecoracer. So we are working together for the new boats,
the new yachts, etc. We are now trying to solve, we have to be 100% sustainable or at
least we try to reach that kind of sustainability. So when we have a full thermoplastic and sustainable
component, now we have to have also the sustainable bonding we can say. So we are trying together
to avoid the usage of glues, thermosets, epoxy raisins, etc. in order to compose the component,
manufacture the component and also install on the boat without using any kind of no sustainable
application. So that's the point we are working together this year, probably all this year
for the new boat and we are willing to reach the solution I think within the year. That's
the goal. I mean.
An exceptionally exciting design challenge, right? Because I think you said appreciate
you've got your thermoplastic process and it'll compensate. You've got the carbon basalt
and the flax is going in to help strengthen it, the reinforcement and then you've got
that carbon sort of veil on top to help protect the surface of the whole package if you like.
So the next challenge with UV carbon is obviously to make that, like you mentioned sort of thicker,
how do you make it, you know, can apply it to different kind of vessels as you develop
more boats for different contexts. But excitingly, I guess making sure that you can do it arguably
at some sort of scale and not compromise obviously the quality and the performance of the boats
that you're creating because it's one thing to have a really sustainable boat, but you
want it to be useful and fit to perform fit to be fast, etc. So how does that process
work? Like what are the kind of design questions that you have to ask in that process to make
sure that you ultimately also end up with a beautiful high performance, relatively affordable
product? When we start to produce this kind of component using the recycled carbon fiber,
so our focus as Rick Carbon says is mainly on the on the carbon fiber, the recycled carbon
fiber is more expensive than virgin glass fiber, but it's cheaper of course than virgin
carbon fiber. As Alessandro said, in the analytical marine market, of course, normally the main
focus was for decades, it has always been into the fiberglass plastics or the first
plastic. When we deal with recycled carbon fiber, we are more expensive, a bit more expensive,
generally speaking, but of course, also we can have better mechanical properties. So
when we produce the sandwich panel, we make them in one shop without using bonding, as
I said, so that allows us to have a cheaper process in order to compensate. We can say
it's a trade off in between the cost of the material and the cost of the process so that
in the end, we are in the same terms of the classic traditional glass fiber or wood panel.
The marine wood is also expensive, and not only because when we produce these kind of
sandwich panels, we also reach up to 30, 35% increase in the mechanical properties and
also a reduction about 30, 40% in the weight. So this allows the end user, in this case,
NL Comp or other one, to also choose trade off between weight and mechanical properties.
And this allows the end user to have the really best solution in terms of weight reduction,
performances, etc. As I said, with NL Comp, we are trying to avoid the use of any kind
of thermoset raisins or bonding. So we are working in order not to disclose too much,
but we are working to into the mechanical bonding. We can say in order to also have
a better manotability in terms of change spare parts. You don't have to change all the boat
or the whole, but not only also with thermoplastic, you can say thermoplastic raisin or thermoplastic
bonding, we can say using the behavior of the thermoplastic itself. So we expect really
good results within this year, really. And Ali, from your perspective, what was it for
NL Composite? Because appreciating you have got, you know, you are building a brand and
a reputation for exceptional racing boats as well. I mean, the EcoRace is a great example.
You've been winner of World Sustainability Awards with World Sailing. So how important
was this for you also in the process of performance, anaesthetic, as well as more sustainable
materials? It was the key point because sustainability is fundamental for us, but from the industrial
point of view, cannot accept, let's say, a big trade off, a big compromise to performance.
So the point was to develop a material that was as performance as the classical glass
fiber, but also more sustainable and recyclable. This was the key point of three years of research
and development that we carried out since the beginning of our activity. And at the
same time, we wanted to be also as cheap as glass fiber that is pretty cheap. And this
is one of the points of huge success in many industrial fields. The work started from the
PhD of one of the founders that was then carried out within the startup. The main problem was
in finding the correct manufacturing parameters to allow the production of this material that
ended up to be this composite we patented and it's composed by, as I said before, thermoplastic
resin, flex fiber mainly, but in general, natural fibers and recycled carbon fiber. We
need all these components in order to have the same performance as glass fiber and also
a good surface finish that's fundamental when we were producing both because we need very
smooth surfaces in order to be very hydrodynamic and go fast. Of course, once we had the material
in the laboratory, we validate the process. We develop to create the material and we start
building a small thingy that we launched together in 2018-21. And then we scale it up and we
build the Accra Racer 25 that's 7.5 meters racing boat. It was, let's say, still a prototype,
but it was able to win the Italian Sport Boat Championship. The sustainability were the
Acrofayernumination, so it was a huge success and we're really proud of it. And Accra 25
then helped us to finally develop Accra Racer 30 that's our main product up to now and it's
a 9-meter racing boat made in this case of a mix of glass and carbon fiber to increase
the performance but to be maintaining the recyclability of the product, of course. And
it was a huge success, the launch of the Recerti 30 that was done last year, on the occasion
of the arrival of the Ocean Race in Geneva and it was amazing.
It's an incredible, incredible achievement and I remember it obviously well with the
Ocean Race and it's a really cool partnership that you had on board there. I think also
it's proving that this technology is not only applicable obviously to hulls. I mean, as
you know, there are a whole load of use cases for structural application of the kind of
technology and the materials that you guys are developing together. So from your industrial
machinery and the furniture industry, I know obviously with the Ocean Race a couple of
panels being made here and there as opposed to the whole boat hulls and also wind turbines.
I mean, this is whilst obviously end of life boats are probably one of the biggest burning
issues in the marine industry, the technology you're creating. I mean, this is material
science and you can apply that material to a whole lot of different industries. How scalable
is it and how widespread do you hope this technology becomes for yourself and also for
the industry more broadly? Is it possible to do it at scale?
I mean, we at NL Comp we develop a material. I would say that we're not only boat builders
but we are a research company that develops sustainable composite materials. And we have
done this by changing the manufacturing process, changing the manufacturing parameters, the
materials involved to achieve the same performance as the classic composite with a sustainable
product. So I would say that the baseline of the manufacturing process is the same as
the one used today but with some updated to make it sustainable. So in this sense, the
process is as scalable as the actual one. In fact, as you were saying before, plastic
is not only an issue of both building but also in the wind turbine industry. And we have
a joint venture with another Italian company to make the first wind turbine blade made
out of our composite. We launched it two months ago. This partnership is another great challenge.
From the industrial point of view, there is still some resistance, I would say, but this
is physiological because we are using glass fiber since the 1920s. So it's almost 100
years. It works perfectly. So why we need to change it? It's cheap, no maintenance, lightweight,
good performance. And I mean, I can understand why industries don't want to revolutionize
this kind of process. And this is why we needed to let them know that our product does not
change the way they are doing, but it can help to innovate them. And in this sense, we're
finding some great partnership with some Italian shipyard. For example, the new Grand
Soleil Blue that was launched in the last festival will be made entirely by our technology
or composite. So this is an amazing success for us. And also it was a great bet from
Grand Soleil to invest in our technology. We also have some collaboration with San
Giorgio Marine that is a new shipyard here in Genoa that is building the new Musa 40,
the one that just won the Trans-Azure Converber with Ambradio Becaria. And we're still in
a research process to make some part of this boat with our material. For Ambradio, we made
some small structures that go back and forth through the ocean and came back in perfect
conditions. So we're really happy about it. We are keep testing the material in different
environments and under different loading conditions and it's worked incredibly well, I would say.
That's great news, Ali. And I think like anything, you are trying to change an industry, which
as you said, that sort of basic composite hadn't changed since the 40s, 50s, which is
a long time for an industry and for all of us, even as consumers, to become very wedded
to a particular way of doing things. So it's really cool to hear the progress that you're
making already. And like you said, whether it's wind turbine blades or otherwise, these
things have got exceptionally finite design parameters for the strength and integrity
needed, right? So I appreciate it is a bit of a journey to convert those industries to
understanding the same can be achieved with ultimately at times a lighter weight material
as you guys are talking about, with the same structural integrity, if not even stronger
with that whole element of recyclability at the end. So I appreciate it's a lot to convert,
but it sounds like you're making exceptional progress in it. I do want to grill you Patrick
slightly on the carbon point because it is fascinating. And obviously for everyday lay
people like myself, non design engineers, the sustainable engineers, obviously carbon and
carbon dioxide are everywhere, right? It's an essential component and building block
of our natural environment found in all of us and most things. And appreciate obviously
the more recent narrative and sort of scientific studies showing that obviously the excess
carbon dioxide is an issue. So capturing that and we're using it if possible or burying
it or storing it is obviously something that many minds are trying to work towards. But
how is it and what is recarbons process around taking that excess carbon dioxide and methane,
I think, and reusing it somehow not only obviously trying to extract it from the environment
where there is too much of it ultimately, but also using it again for something that's
quite useful. How does that work?
So starting from the very old, we can say that just to make a little introduction into
the carbon fiber market, it's important to understand one thing that each year more
than 30k tons of carbon fiber become waste in total of more than 120 tons of new carbon
fiber produced. So likely 30% of the new carbon fiber in the same year become in the whole
production chain become waste. So if we could manage to reuse and recycle all the produce
waste, we would have saved each year 450,000 kilotons of CO2 carbon dioxide. So it's really
a big amount of course, it's theoretical, it's not possible. But that's the basis, the
main focus. When we started recarbons, basically we had a former and we had also still have
a former company, which was a consultancy company in the mainly automotive and aerospace
markets. And we had an important request from an important Italian OEM, high-end OEM. In
order to recover their own waste, they produced like 20, 30 tons of carbon fiber waste on
the every form from the dry fiber to the polymerized to the cured one. So every kind of waste,
in order to recover them in new product, in their new production, in their new cars.
So what we do in recarbons was that was the main point because we looked into the market
and we found out that there was like a missing point, a missing loop between the recovering
of the waste itself and the reintroduction into the market in terms of new intermediate
products which were able to be transformed and to be used by the end users. That's why
we founded the recarbons. And as a recarbons, we can manage all the chain through partnership.
Of course, we are just nearly two years old company, so it's impossible to make everything
by ourselves. What we do internally is the production of the intermediate products. And
we also can manage through partnership with stable partnership, also the management of
the waste of the carbon fiber waste. So we can collect the waste, re-transform them and
reintroduce into the market. When you spoke in the beginning, when you asked me about
the carbon dioxide, the CO2, that's the main point. When you produce new verging carbon
fiber, you have to reach more than 1000 degrees Celsius degrees to produce the fiber itself.
When you recover the waste, so when you go through two kinds of recovering, you can have
a chemical one, so volysis, but you have to deal with acid and it's difficult to have
also the, in terms of bureaucracy, etc. It's better to avoid it. And the other kind is the
pyrolysis. When you paralyze the carbon fiber waste, you don't have to reach the 1000 and
more 1000 and a half degrees Celsius. You just have to reach 300, 400 degrees in order
to, we can say, degrade the resin. That's why it's immediately understandable that you
have different terms of energy consumption. Of course, it's not a 100% eco-sustainable
process, of course, will be not real. But of course, it's really low. You have a reduction
of around 80% in terms of CO2 and carbon dioxide, GWP. So we have a strong reduction, strong
reduction, 80%. Of course, it's not 99%, it's not 100%, but it's impossible also to think
about it. But this is an improvement because you strongly reduce the carbon dioxide from
the very beginning when you produce the new material with the carbon fiber waste. So when
you start with this important reduction, that's easier because you already have a strong reduction,
then all you do in the further steps, it's a consequence of this. So you have a greener,
you can say, not 100% green, but strongly greener products in terms of LCA. We made
also all the LCA evaluation, which are going to be mandatory in the next year, but we already
started with that kind of application and study because for our company, it was really
important to have a surplus also in these terms, in terms of sustainability aspects.
So yes, we can say that, as I said, when we are referring to the virgin carbon fiber,
we reduce up to 80% the carbon dioxide. When we deal with the virgin glass fiber, so comparing
with the virgin glass fiber, we have a lightly less reduction in terms of a half. We are
likely a half better in terms of carbon dioxide, but which is actually still better, of course,
really better. And it's really important because you can't reach a really 100% sustainability,
sustainable process. What we suggest, and that's why we focus on the thermoplastic also,
it's not only to reduce the carbon dioxide in the beginning of introducing the new component,
but also because you can have a reusable and recyclable component. So the better thing,
of course, is to avoid the introduction of every new component each time. If you can
manage to reuse, recycle them, it will be better, of course, in terms of the LCA itself.
So that's the first point. And also, with Enel Comp, they focus its own on the thermoplastic.
That's why we work together and we match in these kind of processes, etc. Because you
see, Alessandro was speaking also about the wind blades. The first wind, you can say the
wind farms with wind blade farms. And now, at the end of their life, the 25, 30 years
ago, now have to be dismantled in the next few years. So that is glass fiber, but in
terms of concept, it's the same. So if you avoid to use the worst material in terms of
thermosets, etc., for new blades, for new components in the automotives, in the marine, etc.,
you avoid to have the problem 20, 30 years later in the time to have the problem of recovering
them. We started to recover them and producing and reintroducing the waste of the past, we
can say. But the focus is also to change the future. So change the conception of the idea
of working with the waste and the thermoplastic in this kind is something that allows you
to be a better management of the end of life. Because what can be an end of life like in
the marine, like a panel in the marine, could be a new product in another market like furniture
or other things. So you can also extend the lifespan of the component, maybe for the double
of the normal time. So you can have shifted the problem in the decades and also whenever
it's time to recover the end of life of the component after the reuse, you can also recycle
it because it's thermoplastic. That's basically the idea.
It's incredible. And I think there's a couple of points there. I mean, reducing anything
by 50% is already a massive win. 80% is just nuts, frankly. And even indicative of the temperatures
you're talking about taking it from almost 100% down to 10% in terms of even just the
energy required in order to transmutate that material into something different is really
astounding. So I can really understand how this technology and material science is really
changing the way that we've done things across industry. And I think the second most exciting
element is exactly what you just indicated, Patrick, is the fact that we don't have to
be thinking in isolation as an industry. The marine industry is an industry in which materials
are used for specific purposes, normally under incredible force, exposed to some incredible
elements, whether it's wind, whether it's UV, salt water, a lot of pressures. But there
are a lot of other industries thereafter that could be using that material for much less
intensive means. One day it's amassed and the next day it could be something very mundane
in everyday life, whether it's your coffee cup or something else. The point is that we
can be exercising that usefulness across our industries as a material automatically and
gently loses its integrity over time. So I think that's what's the most exciting about
it in some ways is that we don't need to be thinking in isolation to solve an issue when
actually this is really a question of material science. And as you know, we've got the same
technology or bits and pieces in our phones that also appear in a whole myriad of different
industries in the world. So I think that's what's genuinely incredibly exciting area
is to be thinking across different fields rather than just one same one. I appreciate
it as engineers, that makes total sense to you. But I think for certainly for thinking
on the industry, trying to solve the end of life issue, it doesn't necessarily mean we
have to solve it in marine for marine. It is a material which could have another use
in another context quite readily. We just need to find it. What's your advice? I mean,
obviously, start with you, Alessandro, you know, you're five years old and I'll composite
you've achieved a lot so far, but appreciate this still remains quite new technology in
a newish way of thinking to much of our industry as the marine industry, but also other industries,
as you mentioned, still having to take obviously people on the journey with you. What's your
advice or ask of the industry to help support the future of more sustainable boat building
in particular?
Also, there is a greater awareness of existing solution. Of course, they can be adapted to
specific needs of each manufacturer. I mean, it's just a matter of believing in it a little
more, you know, different markets have different consideration of also the of their ways, etc.
It's just a matter of believing it, anticipating regulation because regulations are coming from
European Union, national regulations, etc. etc. So in terms of sustainability, everything
is moving. Some markets already did the automotive, especially they are already introducing, you
know, big OEMs also you may probably saw the broad in the brain, the television advertising,
etc. Each kind of OEM is declaring and saying that they will reduce by 40% the carbon dioxide
within the 2030 like something like this, because the regulations are coming. So they
already spent their word, we can say in the marine is a bit different, of course, but also
it's a different market. But the issue about the end of life of the boat, it's real, it's
tangible, it's a bad condition of the in terms of sustainability. So it's just a term of
anticipating and believing more into the whole aspect. So anticipating the regulation just
to keep the sustainable direction and heading into a new era, you can say so. Also in terms
of if you're an OEM, a brand, a big producer of both, you can anticipate the market. So
we'll be the first mover. It's always better, of course, also in terms of your image, what's
your imprinting into the into the people into the the awareness about the problem. So that's
important. You know, in the in these days, 2024, also in terms of image, we can say in
the social, etc. It's fundamental, you know, so it's a big deal. The suggestion is to start
the path into the sustainable direction, believing because it's not it's not pure. It's not at
all a greenwashing. It's not a greenwashing. It's a it's a real deal. It's a real solution,
we can say.
So you're absolutely right. And importantly, something you mentioned there is is almost
you move or you be moved. And actually, regulation does take a while to catch up as we're seeing
in the end of life boating element is taking decades. And I appreciate that these materials
have been built to last as long as possible, until taste change, until they get a bit too
old and tacit. Our requirements for boats have changed dramatically even in the last
15 years, let alone the last 50 60. So I think to your point, regulation is catching up.
And therefore, something does need to be done. I appreciate even just this week, there are
calls from Europe, obviously, to start the boat registration process as an example, the
same as you would register your car. Why would we not register our boats so that we can better
track end of life vessels? Obviously, it does cost harbour authorities around the world
and landowners a lot of money to clear up end of life boats because they get dumped and
no one knows who they belong to often. So it's an imperfect system to say the least.
So we might be entirely move or be moved, as we all see. And I'll composite Alessandro,
what is your main ask of the industry going forward to help more sustainable boat building?
From the boat building perspective, changing the way to course make boats with sustainable
technology could be a really added value to the boat itself. In fact, as was Patrick
saying, the environmental problem is central in all the economical aspect and especially
in Western countries and even more for high-end products like a leisure boat, let's say. And
people are also willing to spend money to invest into a product that will be also sustainable
for making our planet a better place in the future. And other than that, it's important
to know that when a person buy a boat, then after 20 years, now after 20 years that he's
selling around, he really don't know what to do with the boat itself. So they are just
keeping like abandoning them in shipyard and nobody is really dealing with this problem.
As you say, the registration of the boat could be a good starting point to create awareness
of this kind of issue. But if we can propose to the market a solution that says not only
we are making like your boat more sustainable with the same performance, the same characteristics,
and I would say also same prices because up to now our technology are composite like 10%
more expensive than glass fiber. But this 10% is not intrinsic in the process, but it's
due to the more expensive fiber because natural fibers are not produced in such a big amount
as glass fibers, so they are more expensive. But if we can like be the traction to move
towards this path also fast with the frizz and this became a sustainable solution from
all point of view. And we are as I was saying, we are giving to the market not only a product
that today is better, but we are also like giving a solution for 20 years from now when
you have to get rid of the boat because we can say, okay, give it back to us so we can
dismantle it, we can recycle all the materials and we will go to, I would say an ideal zero
weight industry.
That's very exciting because ultimately as you know, Patrick you talked a lot about
sort of life cycle analysis, the sort of LCA life cycle assessment of any kind of material
or products. But I think that's what we're also seeing talking again about regulation
is that, you know, if I produce something ultimately it's my responsibility to then
deal with it at the end of life. And we are seeing in the UK and Europe movement being
made towards legislation around this that it ultimately becomes a producer's problem
to dispose of, recycle, reuse or otherwise, material. And I think obviously a lot of that's
promulgated by the plastic industry in particular that's obviously come to everyone's attention
most prominently over the last five years I think, and plastic pollution. But ultimately
if I produce a can of soda, then ultimately it becomes my issue once the consumers bought
that, drunk it to then take that can back and do something with it. And what you're
achieving already or mindset is very much around, cool, I know in a couple of years
time, 10, 20, however long, I'm ultimately going to get that effectively that base resource
back to rebuild something with. And you can actually start building that into your, almost
like your resource plan, you don't need to be producing virgin, effectively virgin all
the time, even if your virgin material is effectively recarbon already, and natural
fibers that have already been kind of used once. So it's an exception, exciting, but
exceptionally tense time, I'd say to be a producer of anything, because as Patrick said,
like we are, I think as an industry and more broadly as a society, going to get caught
out unless we kind of think bigger, more quickly around end of life materials. Is that fair?
Yeah, I would like to close with a consideration to live with listener. What really happens
today to the boats, they are no recyclable waste, unsustainable at all. We can say that
no matter what they say, the people say, no matter what the OEM say, no matter what the
advertising say, at this moment, today, the boats are unsustainable. We can say that it's
real, it's unsustainable. So we recarbon and NLCon together or not together, but same way,
somehow we are working to solve these problems by creating material, new material, new technology
that are really sustainable in terms of both intrinsically, and also for the, as I said,
as we mentioned many times today, for the end of life of the component. So in terms of a
real, a recoverability of the material and a real reuse of the waste. That's it. That's
all in the focus.
I think that was really poignant Patrick. Alessandro Patrick, thank you so much for joining me this
morning. It's a real pleasure. I'm both excited and somewhat in awe of your minds and your
teams being able to really address this decade long issue and see it as an opportunity. So
thank you both so much for your time. We wish you all the best and please keep us updated.
Thank you.
Thank you for asking us. It was an incredible pleasure to be asked it today. So thank you
again.
It was a pleasure being here.
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