1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,480 Hello there, I'm George Hall and welcome back to the Good Growth Podcast. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,440 Now if you cast your mind back 18 months or so ago, it felt like you couldn't open your 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,400 phone or turn on the news without seeing some sort of mention of the metaverse. It was the 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,360 hot topic in tech for a long time, but in recent months it seems to have somewhat faded 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,200 away, being replaced by the likes of generative AI and machine learning. 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,720 Here today to tell us a bit more about what's happened to the metaverse is Jacob Nichols, 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,640 Account Executive here at Good Growth. Jacob, how are you? 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,960 I'm very well, thank you, George. Thanks for having me on. 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,800 Now firstly, I know I alluded to it there in the intro, but I'm sure you've got some 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,600 stats to back this up. The metaverse seems to have lost a bit of its relevance and a 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,240 bit of its momentum, doesn't it? 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:53,280 Yeah, it seems so. I think the hype was definitely generated around 2021 with Mark Zuckerberg 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:01:02,040 changing Facebook to meta and all the massive investment that's gone with that. Meta was 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:10,880 once valued at one trillion and nearly lost three quarters of its valuation. Further to 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:16,840 that, meta spent 10 billion on the metaverse alone. I think the product that's come from 16 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:23,240 that that everyone has seen that's kind of killed off the hype was the screenshots from 17 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:29,240 Horizon Worlds of Mark Zuckerberg taking a selfie and it basically became the laughing 18 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,040 stock of the internet for a few months. 19 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:37,040 I remember it vividly. It sort of looked like a bit of a creepy face that was somewhat akin 20 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,120 to the Nintendo Wii characters. 21 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:45,240 Yeah, I mean, he was clearly embarrassed. He shared a new photo three days later saying 22 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,160 the graphics are better, I promise. 23 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,280 And then casting your mind back sort of 18 months back to I guess 2021, what were the 24 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,440 initial projections around the metaverse and how it was going to change and revolutionize 25 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,040 how we communicate digitally? And then why hasn't that come to fruition? 26 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:07,120 Yeah, I think first of all, there was kind of a lot of confusion about one, what the 27 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:15,400 metaverse was and two, kind of how it would apply to my life as a consumer, as a business 28 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:22,640 leader. And I think really, it was initially projected to transform, absolutely transform 29 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:28,680 the way we worked, the way we interacted with our machines, but also to kind of improve 30 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,920 our lives in the in the real world as well and bring us closer together using technology. 31 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:39,360 But it kind of didn't happen in the way that I think most people expected it to because 32 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,840 with Meta's vision that I think everyone kind of heard about, they expected something to 33 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:50,920 happen very quickly and very instantly. But with the kind of technology that's required, 34 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:57,840 especially in terms of like VR, the adoption of VR, by the adoption of VR headsets has 35 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,180 basically fallen flat over the past few years. It's a massive consumer shift if you're going 36 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:10,800 to get people wearing VR headsets to work in to kind of play in as well. I think it's 37 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:17,000 it's a massive thing to to have to convince them to do especially when they cost a few 38 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,620 hundreds or a few thousand pounds and they've been making people sick from motion sickness 39 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:27,140 and they're not hugely comfortable either. So yeah, I think that kind of like consumer 40 00:03:27,140 --> 00:03:33,320 transformation is is definitely what's one what slowed it down, but to the pace of the 41 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,360 technology that's been coming onto the market as well. 42 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:41,720 So do you think if if AR and VR were were not only more accessible, but also less motion 43 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,800 sickness inducing, I guess we'd be in a very different place, wouldn't we? 44 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:52,600 Yes, it's an interesting question, because I think if like nowadays, there's a lot of 45 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:59,320 people working from home, you know, companies like international companies that have offices 46 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:05,120 in various different countries, they would probably want to spend that money per employee 47 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,560 to try and bring them closer together and bring back that kind of collaboration without 48 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:18,360 having to spend all the money on flights on trains, etc. on on travel in general. I think 49 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,880 in that case, it probably would have picked up a bit quicker. But then it's a case of 50 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,680 do the will do like employees and consumers actually enjoy it, because I think it can 51 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:35,080 feel a little bit forced if you're forcing everyone together in a room in a virtual room 52 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:41,840 with customized avatars and they're still sat at home with just the only difference 53 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:47,840 is they're wearing a pair of goggles. So I think when you kind of frame it like that, 54 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:57,360 it does sound a little bit silly and not not worth the investment. But I think once there's 55 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:03,160 actually something that Apple Vision Pro is something that I've looked at and seen and 56 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:08,720 I was like, yeah, this this feels a bit more like it. I think the like the likes of HTC 57 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:15,520 vibes, Oculus VR, etc. They've been focused a lot more around kind of gaming and really 58 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:21,160 immersing yourself in a different world. Whereas the Apple Vision Pro is kind of taking it 59 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:27,040 like it's more of a mixed reality. So you're pulling your your apps, your your work, your 60 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,720 displays and putting them into context. So I think I think something like that makes 61 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:37,400 a lot more sense in terms of consumer adoption, because consumers generally don't want to 62 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:45,080 completely take themselves out of reality, I would say they want to like augment or be 63 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:50,560 able to seamlessly bring the bring the tech that they know and love into their reality, 64 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:56,600 which I think that Apple Vision Pro is trying to tackle. I mean, we'll find out early early 65 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,960 next year when it gets released into the US. But yeah. But again, a massive price point 66 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:08,680 is nearly like $2,500, I think. So, you know, it's not especially in the cost of living 67 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,440 crisis as well. It's not probably the thing that everyone's lining up to buy. But but 68 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,800 yeah, I'm quite excited personally by it. 69 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,920 Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out. And then beyond, I guess, AR, VR, and 70 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,640 the cost implications. Are there other hurdles that are yet to be crossed, whether it's infrastructure 71 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,080 technology that's contributed to the cooling off of the hype? 72 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:35,840 I think there's definitely been some influencer hype around it as well. The likes of NFTs, 73 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,560 for example, everyone kind of saw those as a bit of a get rich quick scheme and didn't 74 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:45,360 kind of recognise them for the value that they could potentially have. So I think there 75 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:51,440 was a lot of kind of speculation around, okay, these would be great for kind of like entertainment 76 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:58,800 events like concerts, etc. Like without having that worry or like even like travel tickets, 77 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,400 without having that worry that like someone's it's been passed down multiple times, like 78 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:11,040 it's been able to be to be validated. But I also think it's not had the massive adoption, 79 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,800 because to be honest, metaverse technology and that sort of web free technology that 80 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:22,160 makes it that tries to make everything a bit more immersive is one really expensive. And 81 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:29,640 two, you do need a very skilled technological workforce to be able to do it. I mean, and 82 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:35,200 I think the meta example really does put a lot of other companies off because, you know, 83 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,960 they've dropped 10 billion in it, and they're still posting massive, massive losses, then 84 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,440 it's kind of like, why, why would anyone, anyone else do it? But there is there is interesting 85 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:50,800 examples in terms of one that springs to mind is BMW, actually, they've created some virtual 86 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,640 factories to run simulations on and understand efficiencies before they actually go and build 87 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,720 the factories that they build cars in, which I thought was a really interesting application 88 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,400 in terms of using it as a test bed, basically. And I think that it kind of goes back to what 89 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,640 we did good growth in terms of, you know, test testing and learning and understanding 90 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,800 before you go and, you know, drop 10 billion on a metaverse project, which I don't think 91 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,640 Zuckerberg went through. So 92 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,640 and it's interesting, we talk about meta that they're always in the news around, you know, 93 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,080 data privacy security. Do you think there's some consumer concerns around privacy when 94 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,680 it comes to the likes of AR VR? I mean, I'm sure we could have a quick Google and there'll 95 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:38,320 be a conspiracy theory about VR headset stealing retina scans and using them for God knows 96 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,040 what, do you think that's held consumers back a bit and maybe not giving them the confidence 97 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,880 that they need to buy in? 98 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,960 I mean, it definitely came into my head when I was looking at the this Apple headset, like 99 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,720 they're definitely scanning the environment some way. But, but, you know, I think it's 100 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:59,400 that it's that balance, isn't it? If you if you want these hyper personalised experiences, 101 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:04,120 then and that's a value to you, then you're going to have to give up a bit of personal 102 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:11,400 data to be able to enjoy and achieve those experiences. But I think generally, there 103 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,840 probably is quite a bit of scepticism around, you know, why why are brands getting involved 104 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:23,600 in this? Is it to get their proposition out there? Or is it to just is it another opportunity 105 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,840 for a data grab? Is it another opportunity to learn more about about your customers? 106 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:34,080 But I think there's definitely caution to be taken around hyper personalised experiences 107 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:39,720 in terms of how much how much should how much should consumers have to be giving away to 108 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:47,400 have a more tailored experience? Like, there's no need for for scanning of their environment 109 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,840 unless it provides value within something. So it's all about that kind of value exchange, 110 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,840 I think. 111 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,640 Perfect. And then to sort of close things off, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of 112 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,120 whether it's Zuckerberg or one of the heads of digital at one of these big companies, 113 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,660 what do you think's the logical next step in terms of reigniting that hype around the 114 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:13,280 metaverse and getting consumers back interested and more likely to make a purchase? I guess, 115 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,720 further on from that, is any of that already happening out there in the market? 116 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,560 I think I think so. I think, first of all, the fact that like the metaverse really, even 117 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:28,120 though it's kind of a catch all term, it is kind of all around us like this zoom call 118 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:36,760 we're sat on today is an example of technology bringing us closer together. And, you know, 119 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:44,560 like things like cross platform gaming, by socialising in fortnight, VR chat, etc. That 120 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:54,080 it is here in a way, but it's just, okay, how do we take it a step further? And I think 121 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,840 kind of going back to my excitement of this Apple headset again, but I think something 122 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:05,720 like that is is kind of the next step. And if if consumers pick that up, then I think 123 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:14,760 it could be a really interesting kind of like jumpboard, the things they use in gymnastics 124 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:22,160 to like, launch it into into something even bigger. But but no, I think there'll definitely 125 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:30,200 be a resurgence. I know everyone's focused on kind of AI generated AI at the moment. 126 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:36,560 But I think that's just a smaller piece of the puzzle of a wider picture, really. Yeah, 127 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,960 sounds like a question. 128 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Perfect. It does indeed. And look, I don't think Apple have officially released a specific 129 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,640 date yet. I think it's still slated for early 2024. Whatever that means, I mean, with with 130 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,120 Apple, you can never quite tell whether they're going to completely stick to that. But I think 131 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,560 look, price is starting at three and a half thousand dollars, it'll be interesting to 132 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:59,360 see what uptake is. But Jacob, it's been great to have you on the podcast. And I'm sure it 133 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,720 won't be the last time we hear from you. Or the last time we hear about the metaverse. 134 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,320 You've been listening to the good growth podcast. If you'd like to find out more about us, check 135 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:14,240 out our website, which is www.goodgrowth.co.uk. Or why not check us out on LinkedIn? Thanks 136 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:22,400 very much for listening.