1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,280 Hello everyone and welcome to this episode in the series of the Afrinu podcast here 2 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,440 live in Coptun7 at Sam El-Shiaq, Egypt. 3 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:32,440 In today's episode or this episode I bring you Professor Weijen Li who is a professor of power and energy engineering 4 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:40,440 at the University of Texas in Arlington. He is also the president of the IEEE Applications Society. 5 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:50,440 So in this episode, Professor talked about the very interesting and touching aspect of SMRs and also its interface with microgrids. 6 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:58,440 He talked about the security, safety and also regulations that are bothers around this technology. 7 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:05,440 He talked about the microgrids and then he quite understands and expresses the limitation of the available and emerging grid technologies. 8 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:27,440 But later he emphasized that any technology that must drive and it must be in an egalitarian society and also the people, the local people must be the ones that drive and own this technology or the economy around it so that it can remain sustainable. 9 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:41,440 I'm very sure that you'll be very much inspired when you listen to this episode as it brings you a lot of very unique and useful information for new builds in Africa and also especially in Nigeria. 10 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:55,440 I'm following my few questions to him and the discussion also organically grew with Lokhande Makhratik who talked about different aspects of the reactor technology we are having 11 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,440 and which are coming up as well. Listen and get inspired. Thank you very much. 12 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:10,440 The local workforce development, how you establish local and then people have the ownership. 13 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:17,440 It's not like coming to here, give this one here, I think you need it. Okay, you can charge cell phone. 14 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Not enough. 15 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,440 That act of charity is not... 16 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:32,440 No, charity doesn't last long. If you make themselves sufficient. 17 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:40,440 And then basically they don't feel proud of themselves. They are the receiving end. 18 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:46,440 So they don't proud themselves. They produce it, they own it, they make it work. 19 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:56,440 And this model really works well because there is this culture of aid for Africa. 20 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,440 A lot of people say, oh, we need to help Africa. 21 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:09,440 But if they adopt this model of making people own whatever you give them and they earn it to some extent. 22 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:17,440 You need ownership. This is also the attitude. A lot of time people say, okay, we help Africa. 23 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,440 It's more like a charity. I don't like that kind of feeling. 24 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,440 It's just giving the money and... 25 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:31,440 This is not right. If you try to look at the equity, you mean we are equal. 26 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:40,440 Okay, so I will help you as long as you help yourself. 27 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:48,440 That's an elegant, egalitarian kind of thought which many people in traditional societies don't have. 28 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:56,440 They need to be reoriented on how to think in an egalitarian way. 29 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:06,440 It's not a mercy. It's not a mercy. We are only one planet. We try to make it work. 30 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,440 And... yeah. 31 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,440 That's a big point. 32 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,440 This is an attitude. This is a lot of time. 33 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,440 This is an attitude. It's a big country, a developing country. 34 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,440 Developed country, okay, add 100 billion or whatever. 35 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,440 They just talk after and then nothing happens. 36 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,440 Like on Friday, President Biden was here. 37 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,440 They made... 38 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,440 250 million. 39 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,440 Yeah, basically, they have earned a number. 40 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:45,440 They have earned a number but they are basically... be careful because a lot of time it's... 41 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,440 $250 million. They are going to get their dumb payment. They are going to get money back. 42 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Of course. There is no free money. 43 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,440 There is no free money. 44 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,440 They are going to get it. Okay, well... 45 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,440 The companies and everything... 46 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:04,440 They are around them. They are equipped. Okay, well, what's the interest? Do you mean the maintenance? 47 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Sure. 48 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,440 Which is more business for them, you know? 49 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,440 On direct all goes to their companies. 50 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,440 Yeah, the country goes through their company and they charge more compared to the local. 51 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:23,440 So, my vision, my idea is local. Establish local... 52 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,440 What's the problem? 53 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,440 An industrial, sir. 54 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,440 Yeah, yes. 55 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,440 That's what we are thinking with the SMRs at the I-12 actress. 56 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Yeah. 57 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:44,440 The SMR will be very good. But the SMR you have to be very careful because from the village point of view, 58 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:49,440 they are not going to take the 300... 30 megawatt. It's a smaller one. 59 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Yes. 60 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:58,440 Okay? So, ideally, okay, we draw a kind of structure. We call it Olympic Green. 61 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:59,440 Okay. 62 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Okay? You have a village here, village here, village here, village here, village here. 63 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,440 Yeah. 64 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Okay? And it's a real structure. So, because the real structure give you the reliability. 65 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:10,440 Okay. 66 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,440 You can supply on both sides. 67 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,440 Okay. 68 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:20,440 Okay? And then, now, establish, okay, establish, establish, establish, we know. 69 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,440 The unit need to require a maintenance. 70 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:34,440 So, I'm going to have a shortage. So, in other words, if I don't connect with others, then I will be out of power during the period of time. 71 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,440 So, can we connect together? 72 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:38,440 Yeah, that's... 73 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,440 Okay? 74 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440 That's connect together so everybody share. 75 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:49,440 And then, once we share the capacity increase, the SMR here. 76 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:50,440 Yeah. 77 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:57,440 Okay? So, because SMR require monitoring, require a lot of other... 78 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:58,440 Yeah. 79 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,440 Okay? So, you need the people now. 80 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:07,440 Because in the small village, you cannot afford to hire so many full-time people to work on this. 81 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Yes. 82 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:16,440 So, once you connect a community with the SMR in, then you can do the monitoring, local regional, local control. 83 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:17,440 Good. 84 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,440 Because SMR, I don't know how fast, they can change. 85 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,440 Yeah. 86 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,440 Okay? The output, they can change because you're going to turn on the light. 87 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:27,440 Yes. 88 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,440 I cannot ask a villageer, say, okay, everybody turn on the light at 5 p.m. 89 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:32,440 So, no. 90 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:33,440 No, no, no, no. 91 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:34,440 And then, turn off at the same time. 92 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,440 No, you cannot do that. 93 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,440 You cannot do that. 94 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Okay? So, they do randomly how the SMR respond or how other load. 95 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,440 That's the load following, right? 96 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,440 The load following part. 97 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:52,440 The load following part, that is basically in the couple bit system may fail. 98 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,440 Okay? You have a social security, you have something. 99 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,440 Yeah. 100 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,440 So, what is the, what kind of protection is required? 101 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,440 What kind of protection is required? 102 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,440 What kind of backup do you need? 103 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:08,440 Okay, so this is the, once you have a big community, then you clearly come in, then you can connect. 104 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,440 Yeah. 105 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:16,440 The load following is nowadays in traditional big nuclear reactor, they are following the load. 106 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,440 No, traditional nuclear reactor, only France. 107 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,440 Yeah, only France. 108 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,440 Only France. 109 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:23,440 Okay, in US, we don't. 110 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,440 No. 111 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,440 In France and in some part of the UK. 112 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,440 But not everywhere. 113 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:29,440 Not everywhere. 114 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,440 That is one of the key points that is also talked about. 115 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:34,440 Yeah. 116 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:35,440 SMR. 117 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Yeah, for new builds, yes. 118 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:37,440 Yeah. 119 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:38,440 So, that's, yeah. 120 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,440 Now, we are trying to. 121 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,440 Yeah, get into, get into the operation is another issue. 122 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,440 Yeah. 123 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,440 Yes. 124 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:51,440 I mean, in Sweden, we are trying to put SMR in North Sweden. 125 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:52,440 Okay. 126 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,440 Yeah, because there are, as you said, I mean, there is a lot of hydro, but there are many 127 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,440 industries want to move to North. 128 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,440 Okay. 129 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,440 So, then they need something as well. 130 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,440 So, that's why there will be hydro. 131 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,440 So, you can use now on SMR as a base load and use hydro to do the adjustment. 132 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,440 Yes. 133 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:13,440 And that. 134 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:14,440 Yes. 135 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,440 So, you need something that you can adjust. 136 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Reliable. 137 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:18,440 Yes. 138 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:23,440 Because it's same with the hydro, hydro runs on some days. 139 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,440 In summer, it's really nice, but in winter, things are a little bit. 140 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:28,440 No, no, no. 141 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,440 So, then you need something as a backup as well. 142 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,440 And industries always energy intensive things. 143 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,440 Yeah. 144 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,440 Yeah, this is the, this is engineer. 145 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,440 I mean, you are an engineer. 146 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,440 Yeah, me too. 147 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,440 So, yeah, that's it. 148 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,440 Only one, you can't rely on only one energy source or one system. 149 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,440 This is a unique solution. 150 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,440 And Africa has Africa problems. 151 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:57,440 Sweden, Sweden problems. 152 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,440 Yes, the US has the US problem. 153 00:09:58,440 --> 00:09:59,440 Everyone has that one. 154 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,440 We have a different solution. 155 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,440 Yeah. 156 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:03,440 Okay. 157 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,440 Well, nice to talk to you guys. 158 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,440 Yeah, nice to talk to you. 159 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,440 Me too. 160 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,440 Thank you very much. 161 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:11,440 Thank you. 162 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,440 This is our art. 163 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:13,440 Okay. 164 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:28,440 Thank you.