for the size or sea project in the UK and size or sea is a proposed new nuclear
power plant in Suffolk.
Hello everyone on today's episode of the Afrinuk podcast we have Claire Toghuz
from the size well sea construction site in the UK. We want to have a very
interesting conversation with her on issues bordering the construction and
also nuclear technology and renewables and she can also give us some tips about
the copper indices coming up in the UK. So Claire can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do?
Thanks for having me. So I'm Claire I currently work in the UK nuclear industry on the development of the size well sea projects.
So size well sea is a proposed new nuclear power plant in Suffolk and it will be an
exact copy of Hinkley Point Sea which is currently under construction in Somerset
in the UK and once operational size well sea could provide 7% of Britain's
current energy demand and that's the equipment of about 6 million homes. So
I'm part of the financing and economic regulation team for the size well sea
project which is a bit of a mouthful but really what it means is that we're the
team that are engaging the government and investors to help make the case for
the size well sea project and something else that we're looking at is developing
the wider uses of nuclear and this is something that's quite exciting that we're
looking to do with size well sea which will actually be different to Hinkley
Point Sea and all other nuclear power plants currently operational in the UK.
So whereas Hinkley Point Sea will be built to produce grid scale electricity
and solely provide its power to the grid, at size well sea we're actually looking
at building it to be energy-centred ready and so what that means is that the
vast amounts of heat and low carbon energy that are produced by the nuclear
plants will be used for a range of different purposes and so we're looking
at potentially co-locating things like hydrogen production and producing
synthetic fuels and possibly providing some of the low carbon heat to
industrial processes and districting. So it's a labour-e-dining type is it?
Yeah absolutely so the size of the energy hub and elements of the new so things
like hydrogen is a new technology that we'll be looking to
generate with nuclear power but also other elements like the use of nuclear
heat for industrial heating networks although it's not something that's been
done in the UK actually has been done in a number of other
countries around the world so it's just new for the UK and it's
something that actually also increases the flexibility of the nuclear power plants.
The size well sea reactor type is it going to be a smaller one compared to
the Hinkley point C? No so size well sea will be an exact copy of Hinkley point C
so Hinkley point C is a twin EPR reactor design and a huge amount of work
went into getting that reactor design approved through the UK regulatory
regulation process and so there's some real benefits of replicating what's been
done at Hinkley point C to that size well sea. The difference with size well sea is
that we're looking at once that EPR reactor has been built can we use the
low carbon heat and the low carbon electricity that's produced in different
ways but the design itself will be a replication and then there'll be big
benefits in terms of the Hinkley sea as a result of that. Okay that's fantastic
and you know nuclear projects globally have a very interesting characteristics
and it surrounds a whole lot of industries getting to have some kind of
vested interest and people as well but the people or the land where it's going
to be built must have their own sea and that comes to the politics so what is a
current political sentiment around nuclear now how will the project be
financed? In the UK there have been a number of announcements around the
future energy mix and the way that the government see us meeting our ambition
to reach net zero and I should probably just start by saying that actually in the UK the
government have committed to a legally binding target to achieve net zero by
2050 and so at the end of last year they came out with two things there was
something called the Prime Minister's ten point plan which set out ten key
technologies which he saw as playing at the government sea as playing a key role
in reaching net zero and there was also something called the energy white paper
and both of those announcements set out a commitment to nuclear and a
recognition that nuclear renewables together can play a key role in our
future net zero energy mix. Yeah that's really interesting you know I'm having to
see the nuclear technology lending its hands to various kind of application is
really interesting to see because people have always seen it as something that
just generates electricity and having it to lend itself to hydrogen generation
like gives a lot of credence to the climate change pursuits that nations
are on to currently so it's really interesting to see how that is going so
can you tell us a bit more about the finance like at what stage it is like
are there fears that it might not scale like the Hinckley point C or like what
is being done like in comparison with the Hinckley point C like I want yeah
absolutely so Hinckley point C was the first nuclear new build project in the
UK in a generation so it really revived the new build industry and
that's created thousands of jobs across the whole country for its supply chain
and size will see as I mentioned intends to replicate what's been done at
Hinckley point C so use all the skills and the knowledge and the people that
have been developed through the new build program Hinckley point C to build
size or see and that's significant for the financing because this
replication reduces the cost of financing and the cost of financing was
about two-thirds of the Hinckley point C strike price but the size or see because
the risk associated with the construction projects will be significantly lower
we're exploring a regulated asset based model financing model but what that
means is that because there's lower risk there's an opportunity to bring in the
financing at a lower cost and then quite significantly reduce the cost so the
current proposed financing model and the size or see project are engaging with
the government or about is the regulated asset based model and this model
would allow UK financial investors so your big institutional investors like
pension funds to invest in the project that's quite interesting to know to have
a regulator based financing model like I'm just hearing this for the first time
and you know it's the major discouraging factor or may do I say
determining factor to many countries or people that want to get the technology
the finance and having this financing model I really hope that it comes up
sooner than later and you know I got a lot of people commenting about the high
cost of a runs and not just the comment but it's normally the mainstay of how
nuclear power plant new builds are like it's usually a very capital intensive
project and if this can come on and show a very strong point that it can be done
I think it will sound a very great note to the international community that
nuclear can be done and with some all parties and agreeing to it and yeah this
takes me to the next point you know nuclear technology starting to be applied
for nuclear power plant and for electricity generation has been since
1950s and the UK and the developed world has been our head of this in this
technology and this current climate change and the
COP26 is coming up in the UK luckily the UK is pro-nuclear and I'm happy that
this is happening in the soil we are the COP delegate to be coming and I hope
that the community over there are really gearing up to give a very strong
position for nuclear so as copies of PONOS coming in November what is your
take on the UK and Africa's energy landscape Africa is quite vast and diverse
as well how can these two people UK and Africa these two entities how can they
kind of collaborate to reach their climate goals and what are the things
they can learn from each other as they as they carry on on this on the climate
journey yeah I mean to COP26 is the biggest summit the UK's ever hosted
and it's you know the most significant climate event since the Paris
agreement which is when the country is committed to keeping temperatures below
two degrees so COP26 is an opportunity to set even more ambitious climate goals
and there are some certainly similarities and the challenges that the UK
and Africa face in in order to reach net zero so as I mentioned the UK
governments set a legally binding target to reach net zero and I understand
South Africa last year also set a similar target to reach net zero by 2050
still in the UK the current energy mix is about 40% gas 20% renewables 20%
nuclear and 10% from other sources such as coal and imports so in order to reach
net zero the coal and the gas needs to need to come off the energy system and
also the Committee on Climate Change who are the body of the advice the UK
government on on net zero and climate related issues have said that not only
will we need to replace the carbon intensive forms of energy on our system
they're also forecasting that the actual energy demands at the UK will double
and that's as things like cars move to electric and other potentially heat so
so much more of our activities will be powered by electricity so the scale of
that that challenge is huge and similarly in in Africa I think perhaps even a
slightly larger portion of the current energy mix is is coal at the moment so
in order to bring that off yeah yeah so in order to to replace that and then get
to net zero we're gonna need a lot more of all forms of low carbon technology so
that's renewables nuclear and also some of these new emerging technologies like
hydrogen and CCUS which is looking at capturing carbon from the atmosphere so
I think yeah absolutely I mean COP26 is an opportunity for all countries to come
together and then countries like Africa and UK the UK to come together and set
ambitious climate targets and also discuss that pathway for how they will
actually reach the net zero ambitions yeah that's really good and and there's a
very great lesson especially from the UK having a very clear definition of their
goals towards 2050 so many African countries don't have that clear cut
definitions of we are they actually going if in the energy scape on trying to
reach the climate goals so it's really a great lesson to for most African countries
to learn from these clear definitions of where they are going and thanks to South
Africa who already have stated that they have that some net zero goal for 2050
that's really interesting to know I hope so many African countries listening to
this podcast will actually adopt this clear defined goals and since we've
talked about this COP26 and how renewables and nuclear should combine
this is a very great low carbon resource that we can use to meet our energy
needs do you think there is any way these two industries because the renewables
when people are saying renewables I was talking with Jeremy Gordon earlier so he
was like when people are saying we need to go 100% renewables that's like saying
zero nuclear you know so do you think there is any way we can combine these
two industries to work together in the run-up to COP26 or going for that in the
net zero goal yeah absolutely I mean I think nuclear and renewables both have
a completely vital part to play in a future net zero energy mix
renewables are a fantastic technology the cost has come down significantly over
the last decade and and the technologies continually developing so in the UK when
now things like floating wind which can be further offshore which opens up the
amount of seabed in which to build them but also allows them to capture the
greater levels of wind that you get further offshore however renewables are
a variable source of generation so quite simply you know when the wind doesn't
blow and sunsets shine they don't generate power and therefore you need in
order to balance your energy mix and to keep the lights on all the time a form
of base load in that mix alongside renewables France and Sweden are great
examples of countries who have decarbonized their electricity systems
using a mix of nuclear and renewables and countries like the UK and Africa can
look to these countries as a bit of blueprint for their own future energy
mixes and there's a clear role there for the nuclear and renewables industries to
collaborate and work together and I think there's also examples from
countries you know like Germany and California where you can quite clearly
see the potential consequences of them to decarbonize about nuclear and I think
Germany is the one that's often pointed to as a country that's invested
really heavily in renewables at the exclusion of nuclear and actually in
spite of that really heavy investments and the money into renewables they
still have struggled to decarbonize their energy mix like I think in January
this year Germany actually had to announce plans to open new coal plants and
what that shows is that there isn't really this choice between renewables
and nuclear if you do opposite to nuclear isn't more renewables it's
something like a carbon intensive base load like gas with the exception of
course of a couple of countries who have great natural resources for
technologies like geothermal and hydro so Norway as an example of one of these
countries and they get their base load from these renewable sources but
overall I think there's a clear role for the nuclear renewables to play together
in a in an energy mix and to ensure that we can reach that zero. Wow that's really
great and informative Claire you've talked really authoritatively about
nuclear technology and how it should interface with renewables and how
countries have made decisions on combining this duo powerful energy
resource there are very few people like you especially gender based talking about
gender like I consider you a very fantastic female working in the nuclear
industries very rare I've met a female reactor operator although she went on to
work in an international organization so I would say that you are one of a kind
like one in a million if I may say so it's really length credence to the
abilities of the human mind and people should not be limited by their maybe
gender or whatever biases may come up from societal constructs so I'm really
enthralled by how you are able to demonstrate and really explain this
hardcore technology especially for the UK energy and nuclear energy development
and plants so I kind of wonder what does nuclear technology see in the passion
you are showing and how you're able to demonstrate the direction that your
country is going in this technology what does nuclear technology mean to you and
do you think that someone can maybe through your suggestion get something
maybe more information or can you point someone somewhere where the person can
get a similar passion as yours or like the information that makes you more
confident talking about nuclear so what does nuclear technology mean to you and
where can people go to find out more about this technology yeah it's
interesting is that I mean I think in terms of gender balance and diversity in
the nuclear industry it's absolutely something in the UK that we've got some
some clear ambitions around I think there are parts of the industry because
there's such a huge range of roles within nuclear where you do get much more
balance but there are also other areas like the construction side of the
projects which have typically you know historically been much more male
dominated careers so there's a huge amount of work that's going on to look
at not just in nuclear but across a number of industries what can we do to
promote like science and technology and engineering and math subjects at schools
at that young age to get more gender balance there and then bring that up
through the pipeline so that we do end up with workplaces that really reflect
the societies that we live in because we understand that that's something that
that is hugely beneficial to decision-making and creativity and
creating inclusive workplaces and I think that's absolutely something that
the UK nuclear industry and through these new build projects actually where
there's this opportunity to bring in new people and we're creating new jobs and
careers through this it's how can we do that and what can we do to ensure that
we have an inclusive workplace that does appeal to everyone so that even at the
recruitment stage we're bringing a diverse range of people in I think in
terms of yeah what does nuclear technology mean to me I think it's a
vital part of the future energy mix and it's a really huge technology that can
help us get to net zero it's proven and it's scalable and that's what we need
to get to net zero by 2050 in that time-bound way I also think the projects
you know ultimately a new build nuclear project is a huge infrastructure project
and you mentioned the local areas earlier on there so they create thousands of
jobs and we're looking at things like apprenticeships and graduate schemes and
local outreach to ensure that those jobs are having the socio-economic
impacts that they could be a socio-economic impact that they can't
really there are you know it is interesting there are public
exception issues around it we are in traditionally I think the industry
hasn't been necessarily the best about talking outwardly about the the benefits
of the technology so I think for anyone you know just starting out and looking to
understand a bit more I'm part of the network called Friends of Nuclear Energy
so it's a group of students and young professionals it's been set up to really
look at how we can provide very kind of easy accessible fact-based content on
nuclear to promote the benefits of the technology outside the industry so I
would suggest people have a look at the Instagram and LinkedIn pages that we
have and maybe put the links in the podcast notes I can send those
across to you. No problem I will share the link yeah yeah so that's great like so
people can always connect to friends for nuclear right yeah and you're part of
the YGN is that right because that's another great group of young people
looking to communicate. The UK YGN actually making very strong efforts towards the COP26
so I can't really wait to see the great outcome of the so much long-term
investments to this ideal so you've been in the industry for quite a while now
being able to demonstrate so much authority and information about the
construction going on and also issues bordering the vice city the unique
application of the size well see project that shows a very great wealth of
information and depth of knowledge as well about the technology so I wonder
like what are the things that have helped you what resources have you used
that helped you to progress in your career to this level like some people
that are coming up on decided about nuclear technology or like a career in
engineering or stem field for example might be wondering oh it's a challenge
to me like what kind of resources has helped you to this level in your career
yeah so I mean I joined EDF as part of their graduate scheme so it was after I
yes EDF French knows energy companies so largely nuclear but also looking at
renewables in the UK as well and yeah I joined on that graduate scheme about four
years ago now and during that scheme I did for six months placement so you're
naturally rotated around the business which is an opportunity to really
speak to different people hear about different roles here about different
parts of the industry I think that's something that's hugely beneficial in
any career actually regardless where you work when you you first join just
doing what you can to understand different parts of the business and get a
broader understanding of the industry you work in so even if you're not on a
graduate scheme there's always ways to do that I think joining joining
networks or events and just speaking to people in roles that you're interested
in is a good way to build your knowledge and I think that's something that's
very helpful so your company perhaps like more or less provided the
environment for you to grow in that's really interesting and for companies
that are looking to to build nuclear power plants and also develop the
technology in some areas is very important for them to actually take the
the overall growth of the human resource into consideration so that there will be
a logical progression of the and career kind of progression if I may say in this
company so you really touched on a very important part of our of our of this
podcast and I wonder like you've talked about many aspects and I'm kind of drawn
to ask you one more question before we round off I wonder like what's the best
way to communicate with people I know there are some issues that make people
uncomfortable when it comes to nuclear is either they don't know some things or
they know and they are afraid of that thing they know or they are totally like
like I don't know maybe unaware or like thrown off balanced by some facts so I
wonder like how do you communicate with people about nuclear technology like how
do you send a message about the benefit that's this nuclear technology has to
offer not just not just from the technical side but when you come to the
the show suicide the economics and the jobs that provides you've talked about
like but people need to communicate it in a more clear way for people to actually
see that this is what this technology can provide or bring to them yeah so I
think there's a few a few things around communicating actually that the
helpful to bear in mind so the first is something that's true for any
communication really is to understand that people are coming to a conversation
with different background and level of understanding to you and and also these
some different perceptions around nuclear as well and so initially I would say
just always lead with the positives because I think they really do speak
for themselves and that they're not necessarily things that are well understood
a common mistake particularly if you work in the nuclear industry is to assume
for example that people know that nuclear is low carbon coal and gas aren't and
if we're going to reduce carbon emissions and tackle climate change then
then nuclear can play a really important role in that that's you know a really
good point to lead on I think other kind of main benefits of nuclear are the fact
that it is proven and it's it's large-scale and it's something that's
been operating in the UK and around the world for decades now in terms of then
some of the more common questions that we get asked around nuclear I think it's
just making sure that and responses are always fact-based always very balanced
and and generally you know that can can have a very positive effect on the
perception that people have of technology yeah being fact-based is really a
very strong point you have there and this brings me to the last question like
what advice would you give to someone wanting to pursue on the side it about
a career similar to yours yeah I mean in terms of advice I think I'd say you know
if you're looking for variety and an opportunity to sort of contribute to
tackling climate change and achieving that zero then the nuclear industry and
a more broadly the energy industry a great place to start a career there's
roles ranging from you know engineering finance project management and more
communications and advocacy tie roles so there really is something for everyone
there and we're also going to need a lot more people if we're going to build the
capacity that we're forecasting we will need in order to get to net zero in the
future it's definitely not a small challenge so I would encourage anyone
that is interested in this type of industry and that type of role to take
a look and there are you know a huge number of opportunities out there
because these are technologies that we're needing and are investing in and so
that the industries are only going to grow cool that's really fantastic and
very adept and rich in its contents so I really want to appreciate the time with
you you've taught you've talked about so many aspects and I kind of feel that so
many people listening to this podcast might want to like jump on the boat and
begin to like look for opportunities to work in the nuclear industry because it's
so well and clearly painted to be an exciting place to be in and to explore
and also to live and prospect in so I really want to appreciate the time with
you and I just want to ask you just one more question just one more one more
one more class so I don't know like do you have any last words like people that
are coming to COP26 like what are some exciting packs you have for them like
do you think the people will be well I mean like what should be the expectation
and you know and there is a great expectation from people coming from all
around the world you know coming to your country like what what are the exciting
things they should expect for example yeah I think you know COP26 is is very
exciting it is it's been postponed a year but it's happening this year and it is
an opportunity for all of these countries around the world to get together
and look at what they agreed in 2015 on the Paris Agreement and keeping
temperatures below two degrees and look at what further commitments they can
make it's it's certainly border than nuclear and even the energy industry
because it's about tackling climate change as a whole I think particularly
for young people we know that the youth climate action has played a really big
role in putting pressure on governments and driving some of the the decisions
that are being made around how we can tackle climate change and the importance
that this issue has for the general population in this in this age so I
would say you know have a look at the local groups and that there's things like
I know in the UK the YGN net zero needs nuclear campaign is a really great one
to take a look at but there's also there will be local ones in different
countries as well and just sort of add your voice to that and do what you can
to sort of join in and make it clear that tackling climate change is a priority
that we want governments to look at. Cool so make it clear climate change is what we
must look at COP26 is upon us the Hinkley point sees under construction
size where we hopefully follow suit the resources that has helped you has so so
so so so so enriching and the nuclear renewables combination is a very great
one that we must look at and I think there is a very great future for nations
to collaborate and see the future together so that they can all work
together to achieve in a common goal and I really want to thank you immensely for
featuring on this episode of AFRINUC podcast Claire Togos thank you so much
and I hope and I'm looking forward to having you again. Yes and lovely speaking to you
thanks very much for having me.