1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,840 You know of China so that's a great name follow one when I heard that yes 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:13,040 This is what we need. Yeah, this is something people might want and it's a national symbol as well the dragon exactly 3 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:18,240 Yeah, 100% renewables. That's really a way to say zero percent nuclear 4 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:25,680 And 100% right 100% new renewables is not an energy policy. That's a campaign position 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:38,400 Welcome to this episode of afternoon forecast. I am today joined with Jeremy Gordon. He's a long-term 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,540 Friend and very close associates. I have been 7 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:50,160 I'm collaborating with for a very long time. He's one of the founders of the world nuclear news and world nuclear association 8 00:00:50,660 --> 00:00:58,060 He's a very key partner in nuclear issues globally been in touch with him and he has been working on 9 00:00:58,820 --> 00:01:03,420 Communications he has a company called fluent in energy. He has been using to 10 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:11,540 Communicate pressing issues on nuclear energy globally. Jeremy grew up and was educated in London and in a bachelor's degree in 11 00:01:11,540 --> 00:01:16,940 artificial intelligence from University of Westminster and graduating with honors in year 2000 12 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:20,100 You are sure going to get inspired by the great camaraderie 13 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:25,860 He exudes while he takes us to his journey in the nuclear industry bringing us great highlights and how 14 00:01:26,420 --> 00:01:33,220 Technology should be closer to human rather than appealing to the technical challenge. So today we are going to be having a very interesting 15 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:38,780 Episode with him. So Jeremy, can you tell us a little bit about you? 16 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:45,020 And what you do, I know I've explained a little about your company, but you can tell us a bit more about it 17 00:01:45,020 --> 00:01:49,820 Thank you so much. Yeah sure. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Jeremy 18 00:01:49,820 --> 00:01:52,060 It is great to be with you and to link up again 19 00:01:53,420 --> 00:01:59,260 So you've already said quite a lot about me, but I would sort of summarize myself as 20 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:07,020 you know communicator in the nuclear industry and the thing that kind of really motivates me is 21 00:02:07,020 --> 00:02:10,740 Enabling people of the industry to communicate better 22 00:02:11,460 --> 00:02:16,580 So my kind of logic there is that nuclear industry is actually very small 23 00:02:16,580 --> 00:02:19,420 It has a very small sort of industrial footprint 24 00:02:19,980 --> 00:02:24,340 Doesn't have all that many workers and it doesn't have plants in every neighborhood 25 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:30,180 So it really needs every single person that's involved in the technology to be able to 26 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:34,700 Talk about what they do and why they do it in like a relatable way 27 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:41,500 And help to build up general trust in the community and with more and more sort of communities around 28 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:48,380 Spread that kind of trust in understanding. That's the kind of thing that I work on and as he said 29 00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:52,900 My background is basically as a journalist 30 00:02:53,660 --> 00:03:01,300 I worked on nuclear engineering international magazine for a couple of years and then I joined the world nuclear association and 31 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:05,060 I did more journalism for them within the industry 32 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:11,260 So I was kind of the founding editor of world nuclear news and I was writing stories for WNM 33 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:13,700 every single day 34 00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:23,260 Sounds like a very deep source of information like how are you turning out those contents every day? 35 00:03:24,780 --> 00:03:29,580 It was like it was really like a factory. We had a well-oiled machine 36 00:03:29,580 --> 00:03:31,580 Wow 37 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:36,180 We were very good at listening what was going on. We're getting all the press releases 38 00:03:36,180 --> 00:03:40,100 We were looking at what was covered in the newspapers and you know 39 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:45,980 Listings of what people are saying on social media and then we would pick what we would write that day 40 00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:50,620 There were usually two or three of us working on the news on any given day 41 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:53,100 So we would assign ourselves 42 00:03:53,100 --> 00:04:00,940 One or two stories each and then we have to go out and get the original information from the companies the organizations involved 43 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:07,820 Do whatever background research or whatever calls are required to make sure we actually understand what we're talking about 44 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:14,500 And then write it up so it could normally do you know at least one a day each 45 00:04:14,820 --> 00:04:19,140 But if they were short or kind of easy we could even do two Wow 46 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:23,180 So we were just smashing that out every single day and getting 47 00:04:23,740 --> 00:04:31,220 Irready by about 4 p.m. Took about half an hour to assemble the email and fire that out to like 25,000 people or something 48 00:04:31,220 --> 00:04:32,220 Oh my god 49 00:04:32,220 --> 00:04:39,180 That was that's my life for quite a long time. That's great. That looks like a very great task. Anyway, I wanted to like 50 00:04:39,620 --> 00:04:43,580 you talked about the small food sprints of people involved in nuclear and 51 00:04:43,580 --> 00:04:49,100 And in a gablee nuclear also provides small carbon footprint 52 00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:53,300 So like a very good and complimentary word if I may say so, but I 53 00:04:54,380 --> 00:04:59,980 Recently be following your activities on the social media and you tend to be advocating for 54 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:05,540 Designs better designs like not just designs, but what we name 55 00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:11,540 Nuclear power plants, maybe or maybe the ways that people think to like 56 00:05:11,540 --> 00:05:15,820 Accept the name or what it is called now it is designed 57 00:05:16,140 --> 00:05:20,720 Yeah, the nuclear industry is a bit more traditional and like very technical 58 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,220 They just go straight to the point and just turn it out that way the way it looks like they don't want to like 59 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:31,220 Paint it any better or any like in any way like a pill in general public, you know 60 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:34,340 I remember like in Nigeria, you know 61 00:05:34,620 --> 00:05:40,980 There's this so-called sunlight soap when it came out newly it used to come in a very beautiful yellow pack 62 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:46,820 You know and it's a it's a unilever product and at that time when I was very young 63 00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:49,860 I used to think it's biscuits like cookie, you know 64 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:51,380 I 65 00:05:51,380 --> 00:05:58,300 Get attracted to it because of the color of the packets and when I get close to my parents and say no leaving it's cook 66 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:01,620 It's it's it's so it's a soap. It's not a cookie, you know 67 00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:08,780 But I am attracted because of the color and the appealing design like the way it is packaged you get so 68 00:06:08,780 --> 00:06:14,740 Recently you'll be talking about this issue on nuclear do it the SMRs are coming up as a good alternative 69 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:18,180 And I should be more appealing to the public 70 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:25,000 But I think it's very important since you started talking about it for the people that are making this new designs to take it 71 00:06:25,340 --> 00:06:27,340 cognizance of the importance of 72 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:29,460 of 73 00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:35,260 Having to I don't name them or so. Can you just tell us a bit about like the 74 00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:42,180 The things surrounding the new designs the designs and how to communicate or how to actually brand if I may say 75 00:06:42,940 --> 00:06:51,940 Nuclear nuclear technology or nuclear power in general. Yeah. Well, you've you've really touched on something that gets me excited actually 76 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:59,580 Something that's a bit of a problem for the nuclear industry is that it's always talking to itself 77 00:06:59,580 --> 00:07:03,260 Wow, it's always talking to itself about its own its own issues 78 00:07:03,260 --> 00:07:10,420 Hmm, and you know, it's right that there should be a lot of exchange of experience and so on between different countries and all 79 00:07:10,420 --> 00:07:15,180 The different parts of the industry, but that's all good. I wouldn't try to take away from that 80 00:07:15,860 --> 00:07:20,980 But another factor of the nuclear industry is that you know, there is a public interest in it 81 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:27,380 It's not going to stop so everything the nuclear industry does really sort of has a has a public interest 82 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:32,940 And the public do look at what we're doing and but we don't really recognize that 83 00:07:32,940 --> 00:07:37,160 We don't build that into the way we the way we communicate in the way we 84 00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:42,260 This is the real issue the way we name things sometimes the issue you're talking about 85 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:46,860 So we come out with them, you know, you can have a new reactor design 86 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:51,940 It could be the greatest thing ever like really amazing advantages and 87 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:57,140 You know, it has an acronym for a name. It's going to be called the like 88 00:07:57,860 --> 00:07:59,860 You know the MPR 89 00:07:59,860 --> 00:08:06,260 1200 or something like that. Yeah, I wonder does that mean it doesn't it doesn't mean anything 90 00:08:06,260 --> 00:08:08,260 It might mean like more 91 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:10,860 1400 yeah 92 00:08:11,140 --> 00:08:14,860 How is that good? It's not a good name. It's not a good name at all 93 00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:21,260 And so you but at the same time we're asking communities to host this thing and 94 00:08:22,180 --> 00:08:25,900 to you know cherish it to want to work there and 95 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:30,020 You know to invest in it for a hundred years 96 00:08:30,540 --> 00:08:33,380 Can we come up with a slightly better name than an MPR? 97 00:08:33,620 --> 00:08:41,020 You know 1200 I mean what a good example is, you know some years ago in the 60s and the 70s 98 00:08:41,660 --> 00:08:45,180 The UK and France collaborated to design a 99 00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:50,700 Supersonic plane, right? Yeah, and you know this thing. It's called Concorde 100 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:56,700 Yeah, it was just a beautiful and amazing piece of engineering, right? 101 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:05,780 It was just it was just absolutely magic, but you know, if the nuclear industry designed that it would have been called like the 102 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:09,020 Supersonic plane 103 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:12,540 2000 it would have called the SP 2000 104 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:18,180 Oh, it'd have been alright. It still would have been an amazing plane, but you know the name Concorde 105 00:09:18,180 --> 00:09:23,180 Yeah, and actually, you know, it's a it has a lot of benefits to it 106 00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:29,500 It's a word that makes sense in English and in French and it means you know a collaboration and an agreement 107 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:35,300 Which the two countries are done and it even has it sounds like kind of regal. Yeah 108 00:09:36,180 --> 00:09:42,660 First class, you know, yeah, it's got that quality about it. Yeah, and it even has like a double 109 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:47,780 Consonant it's like Concorde, right? Yeah, yeah, and Concorde needs so well 110 00:09:48,820 --> 00:09:51,420 It used to make a double sonic boom 111 00:09:54,060 --> 00:09:56,060 If you're in the ocean and it went over 112 00:09:57,740 --> 00:09:59,740 It's even got that building 113 00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:05,740 So, you know, what why can the nuclear industry not do that? Why can we not do that? 114 00:10:05,740 --> 00:10:12,940 And so they nearly did it in China where they they had the they kind of bought their designs together for their 115 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:20,940 Hualong one reactor. Yeah, and Hualong means dragon right in China, which is you know, very kind of prideful 116 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:28,660 Powerful symbol, you know of China. So that's a great name. Hualong one when I heard that yes 117 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:34,620 This is what we need. Yeah, this is something people might want and it's a national symbol as well the dragon 118 00:10:34,620 --> 00:10:36,620 Exactly. Yeah 119 00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:41,660 But now I see they don't refer to it as that anymore. They call it HPR 120 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:44,540 1000 121 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:51,140 So we've gone backwards again, so that's something that kind of agitates me 122 00:10:51,140 --> 00:10:54,460 But I'm you know, it's in a way. It's trivial nuclear has 123 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:59,260 You know more serious things to be doing than working on these names 124 00:10:59,260 --> 00:11:04,780 But yeah at the same time when we spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions 125 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:08,740 Designing these things and they're gonna last for a hundred years 126 00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:15,540 It it's a symbol of our kind of laziness of our social license that we don't invest 127 00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:20,540 You know, just a little bit of a tiny little marketing project that come up with a good name 128 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:26,820 Yeah, but we we can see though that the the smaller reactor vendors are much more tuned into this 129 00:11:26,820 --> 00:11:31,540 True and they have yeah much better names like, you know, orc low and 130 00:11:32,660 --> 00:11:39,660 Musca and so on. Yeah, yeah super super cool names. By the way, I wonder like what's the next although 131 00:11:40,260 --> 00:11:43,660 Egypt is already licensing. Yeah, they are their new build 132 00:11:43,660 --> 00:11:51,100 I wonder what the next iterations in other countries in Africa and perhaps in Europe and other parts of the world will like 133 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:55,420 Adopt to to name their reactors to make it more appealing to the public 134 00:11:55,420 --> 00:11:59,740 So this brings me like although we've touched a little bit about it 135 00:12:00,940 --> 00:12:08,740 And on how the the public will take this technology and own it as their own make it more welcoming 136 00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:12,540 This kind of takes me to the next point. I wanted to ask you about 137 00:12:13,140 --> 00:12:17,980 The the fate of nuclear technology like every other energy sources 138 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:27,220 I believe like the solar the wind and other renewable sources and other more traditional like for seal and thermal plants 139 00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:29,740 kind of have an oscillating way of 140 00:12:31,020 --> 00:12:33,020 Remaining involved kind of so what? 141 00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:38,220 the nuclear industry as well is subject to fluctuations and 142 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:41,740 The current state is not too favorable for the industry 143 00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:49,540 So I wonder what do you think is is the future is there any hope and like because I was listening to one YouTube video 144 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:57,340 About the career prospect of a nuclear engineer. It's like negative other other engineering like like mechanical 145 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:02,820 Chemical engineering data science and they're like in the next 10 years 146 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:07,020 It has a kind of positive index of the prospect 147 00:13:07,020 --> 00:13:11,900 But the one for nuclear is like negative like what do you think? Wow? 148 00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:16,640 disappointing I just hope that's that's not gonna be true. I doubt 149 00:13:17,540 --> 00:13:24,180 His reality is disappointing to hear people talk like that. I mean, well, it's difficult. I kind of count 150 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:33,420 Nuclear technology as a huge missed opportunity so far. It's only supplying 5% of energy globally 151 00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:40,220 It really should be doing a lot more than that. So I hope that kind of our generation can 152 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:45,580 you know can seize that the opportunity that it represents and 153 00:13:46,380 --> 00:13:51,260 Make the best use of this amazing tool that we've that we've kind of inherited 154 00:13:51,740 --> 00:13:54,060 Because the need for it is is enormous now 155 00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:58,780 We have to change the entire energy system and there's there's room for every technology 156 00:13:58,780 --> 00:14:05,380 This is not to say the renewables can't do a lot. They're gonna do a huge amount because they're getting so cheap 157 00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:07,380 And it's a quick to install 158 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:11,680 That's there's a huge opportunity for nuclear to do a lot as well 159 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:17,220 I would say there's big opportunities for people studying nuclear energy 160 00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:22,300 You know particularly in Africa where there will be, you know in a small minority 161 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:29,500 They have huge opportunity to become a leader in their country. That's that's so hopeful. Thank you 162 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:33,660 Yeah, and I'd say even if they get if they get that 163 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:36,220 They get that qualification 164 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:42,200 Even if they don't end up working in nuclear because whatever happens in life or in the industry 165 00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:46,820 You know an engineering degree and physics means, you know, technical 166 00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:54,940 Problem solving and it means, you know being able to analyze a problem and solve them from sort of first principles 167 00:14:54,940 --> 00:15:00,100 It probably means computer programming stuff like that, which is all applicable to other 168 00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:02,980 technical areas as well. So I 169 00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:09,100 Would absolutely recommend to them is a great thing to be doing. All right. That's great 170 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:14,500 I sincerely appreciate the answer. You know, I just wish I was clever enough to do it 171 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:20,620 Come on, I mean being able to communicate is it's high. I mean, it's it's already 172 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,300 It's a great treasure to 173 00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:31,820 Let people know what it means to to have this and you know many African countries are sending a lot of their cities into different 174 00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:39,500 Develop parts of the world to to lend the science and the different aspects of nuclear engineering and technology 175 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:46,100 So that's a that's kind of a sign of a good future if I may say I think what I think what we need is 176 00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:52,780 Well, you know, we need lots and lots of engineers of different kinds solve all the all the problems in the world, right? 177 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:59,300 Yeah, but I think the people who can be super super powerful have that kind of engineering 178 00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:01,900 base perhaps but they also 179 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:06,700 Have maybe built into their studies or in their life experience 180 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:12,180 They also have a kind of a social or kind of creative view as well 181 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:15,340 Yeah, so if that's possible in 182 00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:20,300 your engineering courses to take a bit of sociology a bit of 183 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:23,780 communication now, so business 184 00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:27,180 Like a better business. Yeah 185 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:34,700 Innovation, you know so that we can really take it forward as well as just doing engineering engineering engineering, which we're already good at 186 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:39,460 Yeah, yeah, you know, I kind of feel very 187 00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:44,660 Privileged to be talking with you because you live in a country where they are constructing 188 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:47,300 the nuclear power plants 189 00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:52,060 That should be the there's a size well and then there's the Hinkley point C, right? 190 00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:57,300 The Hinkley point C is the one under construction and the size well is still under deliberation, right? 191 00:16:58,180 --> 00:17:00,820 Exactly. Yeah Hinkley point C is doing really well 192 00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:06,580 Okay, and we really want the government to make a move to help size well have that's great 193 00:17:06,580 --> 00:17:12,220 So it brings me to the question like some African countries are embarking on their first builds and 194 00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:19,380 Coming from a nuclear country where you have the Magnus technology and those very wonderful amazing 195 00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:25,460 Technology that has been proven and is well established in the UK 196 00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:31,060 I wonder like what kind of lesson and what kind of points do you think the newcomer countries should? 197 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:38,820 To actually hope all that hold up their sleeves like when they are coming up on board like when the decision makers are making their decision 198 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:44,580 Or during the construction at different stages like maybe from your experience or what you've learned 199 00:17:44,860 --> 00:17:46,860 Yeah, I would say 200 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:53,340 From you know as an English guy sitting here in London to share what I've seen happen 201 00:17:53,340 --> 00:18:01,100 I would say that African countries, you know, they do really need to be realistic about how difficult this is so 202 00:18:02,220 --> 00:18:05,940 To look at to look at the UK you could say, you know, we've been using 203 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:10,260 Researching nuclear since you know the 1950s 204 00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:17,300 We're able to design two generations of our own reactor, you know from scratch and using them all this time 205 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:20,900 but still when our government in 206 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:25,940 2006 I think decided, okay, let's get serious about nuclear 207 00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:29,980 It's still taken all this time to get to the point of 208 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:33,260 Building new reactors 209 00:18:34,060 --> 00:18:39,700 So it's and it was a serious challenge to get all the skills and manufacturing ready and 210 00:18:40,820 --> 00:18:43,660 get the regulation kind of upgraded and 211 00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:49,940 Maintain the kind of levels of skills. It wasn't a challenge so much of getting the skills in 212 00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:55,420 It was a challenge that people with the skills were retiring. So we had to kind of pass them on 213 00:18:55,940 --> 00:19:02,660 But that was a big challenge. So to think, you know, even kind of an experienced nuclear country takes that long to do it 214 00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:05,140 It's not an easy thing 215 00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:12,220 But that brings me to my second observation, which is the key thing that helps 216 00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:19,740 Nuclear sector to thrive is solid government support. You need this like ongoing clear policy 217 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:23,620 and not always like lots and lots of money needs to be 218 00:19:25,220 --> 00:19:32,140 Provided but this clear policy where the country is going in a certain direction and the rules are set up to create a 219 00:19:32,860 --> 00:19:39,420 Market for nuclear so that it can work and that's kind of one reason why the UK ended up taking so long 220 00:19:39,420 --> 00:19:45,220 Is that the market we wanted where the government did not want to own anything in, okay? 221 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:53,260 So yeah, so if you had because yeah, so if you thought of the door for private investors earlier 222 00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:57,140 It would have been a bit more quickly achievable. Is that what you're saying? 223 00:19:57,140 --> 00:20:03,980 It's kind of well the private investors that the interest wasn't quite there because there's a lot of risk in in the construction 224 00:20:04,060 --> 00:20:06,060 In the construction phase 225 00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:09,380 Because it could get could go on too long could get quite expensive 226 00:20:09,380 --> 00:20:14,260 So you need a kind of a team effort where the government is going to do what it can to 227 00:20:14,780 --> 00:20:21,300 Mitigate that risk or even take a share of that risk and that we hope is what's going to happen the size 228 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:24,740 Well, you will have a kind of a financial deal of its own 229 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:29,780 And it's quite likely that the other government will support the construction 230 00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:34,660 And then once it's built and running sell its stake to the private sector 231 00:20:34,660 --> 00:20:37,940 Okay. Okay. That sounds interesting because 232 00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:44,260 Recently I read over the news. There's a company in Nigeria transcop energy that is trying to 233 00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,180 like 234 00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,420 Make a very strong move to get in a reactor 235 00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:56,500 a nuclear power plant for Nigeria, so it's it's came as a surprise to me and 236 00:20:57,260 --> 00:21:03,620 You saying that having private investors like because government don't want to like take the financial 237 00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:05,620 responsibility that's like 238 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:08,500 And like making a very strong 239 00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:16,100 Position like in support of the move by that private company because even right now in Nigeria some oil companies 240 00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:24,340 multinational companies like Shell Chevron already moving out of the country perhaps because of the new energy in the in the in the future 241 00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:28,820 so they are like giving over their assets and them and 242 00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:37,580 And whatever they have they've owned in Nigeria to some local companies. So perhaps if these companies have been in the business like 243 00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:41,860 Since the outset it have been an easy transition 244 00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:46,780 If I may say and the government will not have so much trouble managing managing these assets when these 245 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:50,620 multinational sleeve. So yeah, yeah, yeah, right 246 00:21:50,620 --> 00:21:55,540 I mean if any source of energy is such an important thing to a country 247 00:21:55,540 --> 00:22:00,660 It's part of like, you know, you can't have much economy without energy, right? Yeah, and 248 00:22:01,420 --> 00:22:05,220 You know, you know right now security of energy is super important 249 00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:12,100 So really the government has to government of any country needs to you know to have an ongoing involvement in anything of 250 00:22:12,660 --> 00:22:14,660 National strategic value 251 00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:18,300 Yeah, you could need to hear is no different if the government says oh, you know 252 00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:21,980 Private industry have to do on your own. It's not really going to happen 253 00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:27,140 You need the sort of investors the government and the vendors of the reactors to yeah, yeah 254 00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:33,900 That's like a tripod on which it's possible to build. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah the tripod. That's a very great one 255 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:40,980 Yeah, yeah, so I hope for hopefully the smaller reactors the sums of money come down and it gets it gets more 256 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:45,340 You know, just easier all around to do this. Yeah. Yeah, I 257 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:53,460 I wanted to like talk to you about the the new the the cop26 that is coming up and the low-carbon 258 00:22:54,980 --> 00:22:57,660 Advocacy that is going around and the climate 259 00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:02,380 Issues going around and how it's connected nuclear 260 00:23:02,780 --> 00:23:09,900 nuclear seems to be very versatile and it lends itself very very in a very robust way to any low-carbon requirements 261 00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:13,420 for energy or for anything it supplies 262 00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:18,780 But it is always not considered especially by the international body 263 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:25,180 I don't know like do you think this is sheer bad luck or kind of like a happenstance 264 00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:32,540 What do you think should be done to actually because this recognition is needed for countries and and 265 00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:36,660 People to begin to actually make conscious 266 00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:42,900 Active steps to adopting this energy resource. I know it's not just a normal thing 267 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:48,260 You should you can just go and pick up in the market. I know it's a long thing especially from experience countries 268 00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:55,860 But I think they need to be an international recognition of this energy resource or people are just like looking for a quick fix 269 00:23:55,860 --> 00:23:59,620 I don't know. So what do you think can be done to break this to the fore? 270 00:23:59,620 --> 00:24:05,180 You know being a being an expert in communications. I know you must have them had cost to defend this 271 00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:12,300 It's it's been a big problem for years really that nuclear has been ignored on these stages 272 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:14,180 but 273 00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:16,900 But I there's so much change going on now 274 00:24:17,420 --> 00:24:18,580 and 275 00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:25,700 What I think what I think we need to do is actually what I see that we are doing which is actually turning up 276 00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:30,500 these events actually turning up with some with some resources and 277 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:32,780 making nuclear 278 00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:38,660 known in these areas and the door is being opened by some of the international 279 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:41,860 Organizations like the International Energy Agency 280 00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:50,900 Has changed its wordings and the way it talks about nuclear to be more inclusive. You started talking about nuclear more 281 00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:54,380 with with 282 00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:01,300 With the new head of the International Atomic Energy Agency mr. Grossi he is 283 00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:05,860 Speaking more strongly in favor of nuclear as well 284 00:25:06,460 --> 00:25:07,900 and 285 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:14,620 This is current COP meeting the one that's going to take place in the UK at the end of the year is a great opportunity 286 00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:17,420 Because the UK is a pro nuclear 287 00:25:17,980 --> 00:25:23,980 Organized a pro nuclear country. Yeah, and the government has a strong kind of pro nuclear stance at the moment 288 00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:26,220 So it provides a great 289 00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:33,660 Platform to just represent nuclear in a positive way and that has been denied to nuclear 290 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:40,460 for many years at these events and the the kind of effort by industry to turn up has always been 291 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:49,180 Disappointing so we need to be basically taking advantage of every chance we get to represent nuclear on these 292 00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:54,220 International and inter interstakeholder global 293 00:25:54,820 --> 00:26:02,100 Stages as they arise. Yeah, I think it takes a lot of investment the industry hasn't really been doing 294 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:09,860 But gradually it's changing. It's gradually changing. I mean the people promoting renewables have basically had the ball for a long time 295 00:26:09,940 --> 00:26:11,460 Yeah 296 00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:16,980 And that is nothing against renewables, which you know generate electricity that is clean and that we need 297 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:20,980 But a lot of the people supporting them some of them campaigning for 298 00:26:21,860 --> 00:26:25,660 100% renewables that's really a way to say zero percent nuclear 299 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:32,540 And 100% right 100% renewables is not an energy policy. That's a campaign position 300 00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:34,940 in favor of renewables and 301 00:26:35,420 --> 00:26:37,420 Implicit in it is zero percent nuclear 302 00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:43,180 So, you know some of those people have had the mic for a little bit too long 303 00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:49,020 And we're sort of getting our chance now. So I see things moving in the right direction 304 00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:54,700 But we just need it to accelerate and accelerate because you know if you believe what they say about climate change 305 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:59,900 Climate change trying to get to zero. We really need um, you know a flood of 306 00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:04,620 Interest and investment and commitments towards nuclear in the next decade or so 307 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:10,940 That's super cool. Like what a great insight you've given us, you know, I hope that maybe in Glasgow you have some 308 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:13,900 group of people like with their 309 00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:22,380 With their great, um, uh, in their great number saying hey, we need nuclear kind of and thanks to the ygn and the work they are doing to 310 00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:29,900 Yeah, I think we will the yeah the watchy had this has been doing really really well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's super nice 311 00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:33,980 okay, so um, I was kind of winding down in this session and um 312 00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:39,660 I kind of admire how your career have gone and I wonder like people are 313 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:49,020 Interested and some people are not just interested, but they are just wondering what is a nuclear engineering or nuclear energy related degree 314 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:54,940 Like like what are the prospects for me, you know, so do you have any kind of word like advice? 315 00:27:55,020 --> 00:28:01,980 You want to give someone that is like on the on the fence about nuclear degree? Yeah, I mean, I'm not a 316 00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:07,340 I'm not a nuclear engineer, but from what I from what I see 317 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:12,700 There are very few industries which are more committed to 318 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:19,740 Excellence than nuclear so if you want to be the best and work on the best stuff and 319 00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:28,620 Take things to the highest level of precision. Yeah, nuclear has got that right and if you're interested in working internationally 320 00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:33,660 And collaborating with people all different sort of cultures and backgrounds 321 00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:38,700 Um nuclear has that too. So it has enormous 322 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:45,900 Um opportunities beyond just what you are doing, you know with your computer on your desk 323 00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:48,620 so I think it has a 324 00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:54,860 It what it sort of gives to to good young engineers is it's kind of a world of opportunities 325 00:28:55,420 --> 00:28:58,060 And very secure jobs that will last a lot of time 326 00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:02,380 Now I hope the industry is going to get bigger and bigger and contribute more and more 327 00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:10,700 And so we'll bring in more and more young people and just actually have a bigger and bigger role in fixing up planet earth, you know 328 00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:13,180 Yeah, that's great 329 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:16,300 Jeremy, uh 330 00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:24,140 You at the start of the uh of this episode you talked about how you worked with the world nuclear news and the world nuclear association 331 00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:26,940 like that tells me and kind of informs 332 00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:29,420 our great depth of knowledge and 333 00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:35,420 Uh, like a high level of grit and ability to gather information on the nuclear 334 00:29:35,980 --> 00:29:38,300 world in general like you had to like 335 00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:46,460 Meet people and read news and try to connect the dots and also being an editor you you are like 336 00:29:46,940 --> 00:29:51,740 You have a knife like you you need to cut some things and you also have to attach some things 337 00:29:51,820 --> 00:29:57,900 I remember talking with a journalist. He said that every story is called is subject to the editor's knife 338 00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:01,420 Or is it the right? Is it a knife or the the hammer? I don't know 339 00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:06,780 I don't know he tends to cut whatever works to get it done in time. Yeah. Yeah 340 00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:10,780 It tries to filter out the the necessary and the things so can you like 341 00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:17,500 Growing in this career and like coming up and having the influence in energy and a company of your own 342 00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:24,860 You are running like what has helped you to grow like in your career and what you are doing currently loving what you are doing and 343 00:30:24,860 --> 00:30:29,740 Having prospects and futures like what has helped you to get to this level? 344 00:30:30,140 --> 00:30:35,900 Some people might want to know I think I'm I'm I'm pretty lucky. I think and 345 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:44,460 Because I'm not I'm not the world's best writer and I'm not an engineer, but I'm somebody who 346 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:53,020 I can understand enough of the technical issues to explain to other people what's going on 347 00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:57,020 And I just so happen to be better at that most of the engineers 348 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:00,300 Thank you 349 00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:02,460 That's kind of does it. Yeah 350 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:09,660 That's basically it. So I'm kind of always an intermediary between the engineers and the the other people who are interested in what's happening 351 00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:16,460 Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes you get the people who explains the engineering doing a better job than engineers themselves, you know 352 00:31:16,540 --> 00:31:21,660 Because if the people don't understand what you are saying, it's like it's just for you alone, you know 353 00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:25,740 Engine engineers are like right. They're right into the detail 354 00:31:26,620 --> 00:31:29,420 You know for them to do their work they think about certain things 355 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:32,540 But that's not what it represents in the wider world always 356 00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:37,020 so sometimes I come along and I'm able to see that but in different terms and 357 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,780 I've been really lucky that when I worked on the on the magazine 358 00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:42,940 nuclear engineering international and 359 00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:49,420 Had the wna as well. I was always meeting different people from every different company you could imagine 360 00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:55,740 And seeing all the different technologies and just kind of inter relating all those ideas until seeing how they fit it together 361 00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:03,420 That was that was my sort of special skill. I found that I could do that pretty well and people kind of liked my ideas 362 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:06,300 So 363 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,420 Yeah, that's really great like like okay, so going forward 364 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:14,460 Do you think like um, there are better new ways that you will be doing it? 365 00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:19,660 And maybe in the next 50 years if someone is coming up on on the same path that's yours like 366 00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:24,140 Do you think the person should do it differently from the way you did it or maybe? 367 00:32:24,940 --> 00:32:26,060 Yeah 368 00:32:26,060 --> 00:32:28,060 You signed it. Ah 369 00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:30,060 Okay, well, I mean so now I 370 00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:37,740 I've got my own company now fluid in energy and it's me as a as a consultant and I'm really just trading 371 00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:44,300 Mainly on the network that I built up in those other roles the network and the knowledge 372 00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:52,300 um, so I'm in a kind of a fortunate position that I have a kind of a global network that that's like, you know, I know people like you 373 00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:54,300 right 374 00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:59,100 So I'm able to get my bills paid by helping different people out 375 00:32:59,660 --> 00:33:00,620 um 376 00:33:00,620 --> 00:33:03,420 What to do differently? Perhaps I've got a kind of a unique 377 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:10,140 position, but I I just really hope that the industry will keep increasing its diversity 378 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:18,220 And so different kinds of people from different backgrounds as well as different kind of mindsets and different approaches 379 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:20,300 and different 380 00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:25,820 kind of alternative and additional skills around the core engineering will keep coming in 381 00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:31,900 So perhaps my message is, you know, if you're you might be different from a classic engineering 382 00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,820 personality, you might be different from the sort of a scientific background 383 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:39,820 That doesn't mean there's not a role for you in nuclear 384 00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:45,580 You can look around and you can probably compliment this industry and in doing that you might 385 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:50,940 Really find that you are the one to catalyze it to achieve more 386 00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:56,940 Wow, thank you so so much for this great insight and um lastly Jeremy 387 00:33:56,940 --> 00:34:06,380 You have come on this episode with great strength and sagacity which um unassuming voice and nature and also very very much tacit and 388 00:34:06,620 --> 00:34:08,140 straight to the point 389 00:34:08,140 --> 00:34:14,300 You've made you that great depth of knowledge on this field of nuclear and you've been a consultant especially 390 00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:21,420 To some companies. I know you've communicated and um, you've made people understand what nuclear is 391 00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:28,620 You've also told us about how we should brand nuclear and make it more acceptable to the public although some technical things 392 00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:35,180 Behind it may be running not too pleasant to the eyes, but we need to make it more beautiful and more appealing 393 00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:38,140 Thank you so much for this great insight Jeremy 394 00:34:38,620 --> 00:34:42,460 And um, this brings me to the last point like like trying to ask you 395 00:34:42,540 --> 00:34:47,500 Do you have any last words for our audience because you've really touched on a lot of points and aspects? 396 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:56,300 Anyone like one line of sentence to like give it a cap for this episode hoping that we'll have more time with you in the future, sir 397 00:34:57,420 --> 00:35:00,780 We talked about a lot of things. I just think the prospects 398 00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:02,940 for nuclear are 399 00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:09,420 Absolutely immense that the promise of the technology is remains humongous and we haven't 400 00:35:10,220 --> 00:35:15,420 Haven't really even explored a tiny fraction of what it can do yet 401 00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:21,020 Um, will it achieve all its possibilities like I mean, I don't know 402 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,620 um, but it's going to be exciting to find out and with 403 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,260 Good young people coming into the industry 404 00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:33,420 There is a chance that it will play a huge role just creating the clean energy system 405 00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:35,900 and the kind of social conditions 406 00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:39,820 All the environmental conditions that we want to see in this century 407 00:35:39,820 --> 00:35:45,020 So, you know, I just encourage everybody like keep trying. It's worth it. Thank you so so much 408 00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:49,180 Jeremy Gordon for the time with you. It has been an exciting episode with you 409 00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:57,020 And I'm hoping to have you on again on this podcast. Thank you immensely for the time with you. I sincerely appreciate 410 00:35:57,020 --> 00:36:15,020 Thank you, Jeremiah. It's a total pleasure. Thank you so much