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Have you heard of the world policy economy?

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Africa is so rich in research and policy formulation, nuclear policy inclusive, but implementation

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is challenging.

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In this episode we have Professor Iyabo Usman from Wixwater Strand University in South Africa

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talking about her journey from Nigeria to South Africa, contributing immensely to local,

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regional and global research development in nuclear science and physics.

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She even tells us about Higgs Pozen, the card particle.

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She is a professor of experimental physics and leader of the Wix Nuclear Structure Research

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Group.

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Her research areas include nuclear structure, radiation and reactor physics.

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She has about 18 MSc and PhD students under her supervision.

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She has been very active in women in nuclear, global and women in physics, South Africa.

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She serves on the Council of South African Institute of Physics with industrial liaison

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portfolio.

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She is a member of the Program Advice Committee at Itemba Labs, Sepreti Sector Cyclotron and

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an active member of the Nuclear Industry Association of South Africa, Niasa.

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She serves as a reviewer of journals of radiation physics and chemistry, radiation research

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and applied sciences, as well as southern region editor of African Physics newsletter.

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Are you as excited as I am?

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Then listen to the end.

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I want to thank you for honoring the invitation to be on today's episode of the AFRINNUK

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podcast.

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Thank you for the invitation.

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This podcast aims to sift various views of nuclear technology from different parts of

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the world through the African voice.

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It may not be restricted to the African community because nuclear technology is location neutral.

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So to start with, Professor, I have observed your contribution to the nuclear community

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in Africa, especially in South Africa.

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You have been there contributing to the knowledge and human research and building people in general

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and contributing to the community.

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So can you tell us a bit about you and what you do and the capacity in which you are functioning

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in the place you are right now, Professor?

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Okay.

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Thank you, Mr. Mbazor.

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My name is Iyabo Jino-Ola Usman.

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I'm a professor of nuclear physics in the School of Physics, University of Witwatersrand

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and joining us from South Africa.

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And I'm the leader of the Nuclear Structure Research Group.

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I was born as the 21st child of the Ojehtimi family in Ede Ocean States, Nigeria.

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Fantastic.

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And I attended Ladau K. Akintola University of Technology, Kuguma shop for my first degree

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in pure and applied physics.

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Cool.

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Before I emigrated to South Africa in 2005 to continue with my postgraduate study that

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is MSc and PhD in nuclear physics.

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Still MSc, PhD.

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Wow, it's such a privilege to talk with the son.

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I wouldn't say son, but daughter of the soil.

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Thank you.

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So Professor, you have been in South Africa from what you said and most African countries

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flock to South Africa because they have a better infrastructure, they have a better

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lifestyle, if Nigerians inclusive.

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But things are changing in these days.

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I wonder like what is it like and coming from when you were there and up till this time

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and talking about how that impacts the academic environment.

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Can you kind of take us through the journey of how the society has transitioned and what

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are the pros and cons and how the future looks like for especially the nuclear technology

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and also academia and life in general, if you may say.

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Thank you.

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In terms of the development, I think the South African government pushing more towards the

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science and innovation and this has been considered as the instrument for development.

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So investments from the South African government in terms of human capital resources and training

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in the area of nuclear science and technology through the Department of Science and Innovation

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is a very contributing factor into the South African development, not only in nuclear,

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but in all areas of basic science and development.

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So and through this, most of the international organizations also come to join, you know,

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when things are going well in the country, other international countries would like to

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come and help in that area.

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So most of the things that have been put in place by the South African government being

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lifted up through financial support by other international organizations.

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So especially in terms of research, we have many collaborative research infrastructure

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in place for nuclear science and technology, most of the collaboration comes from the through

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the energy research from European countries.

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So many South African energy researchers go to send, you know, where we have the large

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hydrocollider.

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Yeah.

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And most of them have contributed immensely into the development in that area.

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Wow.

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And we also have...

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Excited.

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Yeah.

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Please tell us the story if you have an experience, please.

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Yeah, it's very interesting.

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Okay.

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Because if there's no local support, there's no way the international organizations can

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come in.

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So every year, the South African government contributes large amounts of money towards

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research going on at SEND.

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And they encourage many young, like, at least the early career researchers to join that

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group and develop their success.

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Not only in the area of physics, there are technology, innovation, electronics as well.

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So they contribute to this area.

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Wow.

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Another large collaboration that South African has is with Russia.

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We have South Africa Jones Institute for Nuclear Research in Dovno, where many researchers

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in South Africa have collaborative projects going on.

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So those are the two major international collaborations with regards to nuclear science.

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That's fantastic.

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It's really, really intriguing to see the great connections.

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When I think of SEND, it's like the top notch of nuclear science in the whole world.

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That's where you have the biggest, do I say, cyclotron, like where the electrons get to

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do the job around a very big circumference.

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So I wonder, like, are you guys aiming towards what Stephen Hawkins have predicted?

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Like, have you kind of made any groundbreaking discovery in the hydron collider?

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Yeah.

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In 2017, there was a big announcement about the discovery of Ig's boson.

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And they called it God's particle.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What's that about?

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I really don't know what that is.

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Like, although I read about it, but I really didn't go into details of what, why did they

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call it a God particle?

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Really?

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Yeah, because it has not been discovered before in terms of particles that have been researched

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both in the theory.

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And in that year, it was firstly observed and discovered through experiments.

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Okay.

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You know, the common man listening to this podcast, we'll be wondering, how does this

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concern me?

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Like why should I be interested in nuclear physics or science, for example?

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Like, okay, so maybe my brother who read physics comes home and then he's just talking

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about XYZ, he's talking about neutrons, electrons, none of them I can differentiate.

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Like, I'm like, okay, so why should I worry?

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Like it doesn't put food on the table for me except you are earning some salary.

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So but why should I be excited?

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Because a common man on the street, especially in Africa, yes, you know, we have more existential

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challenges than worrying about what is happening at the Large Hadron Collider, you know, although

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we should be contributing and also concerned about it.

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If you look at the generality of the African community and the level of our, do I say development,

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I wouldn't want to demean it, but looking at the realities on ground, I think we need

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to get more enlightenment from experts like you, why we should be happy with doing nuclear

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physics or nuclear science, putting away that we should have passion for abstract things

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or stuffs like that.

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What should we hope for if we go into nuclear physics?

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Like if I have a child now, like, okay, and there is a future, like everybody or the scientific

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community is looking up to that when we get to this level in the future, okay, this will

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be what we'll be able to do, we'll be able to make some kind of special machines.

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Do you have any kind of illustration of why the common man should be happy with nuclear

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physics and how it impacts him in some way?

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Okay, thank you, Mr. Mbazel.

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Nuclear has been in existence since the Manhattan Project and the prior aim was to develop a

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nuclear bomb.

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So after that incident and the World War occurred and ended, that technology has been transferred

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towards the constructive way that is in terms of energy development and that is how the

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nuclear power is made.

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So even now that we're talking, you are somewhere far from me and we're still having conversation

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through internet.

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So this development comes right from the nuclear research, the World Wide Web.

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If you can go and...

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Yeah, understand the only part of the physics aspect, right?

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If you are doing research, you don't expect what is going to come out of it.

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So pure basic research have opportunities for many advantages that you can't even think

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of.

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So for Africans to devote on pure applied sciences, it emerges right from the pure basic

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science.

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And basic sciences are being done at some highest level of scientific research excellence.

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So that means that more innovation will come out of it, which will be of socioeconomic

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benefits to all human kinds.

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The benefits doesn't apply to only the people in that research area.

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It is applicable to people all over the world and that is the benefit we are experiencing

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now and we are enjoying all day.

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That's perfect.

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I would want to say that we should be expecting those useful mistakes to happen in nuclear

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physics experiments so that the common man will be very happy.

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Just what you said about internet discovery and stuff like that.

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So Professor, your career has been very interesting and moving from Nigeria to South Africa, I

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wonder because one of those times I was talking with one man in one of the government offices

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and he was like when he was to go abroad, so he was giving options of courses to study.

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Nuclear physics, nuclear engineering was one of it, but because he's coming from the

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place he is coming from, which is Nigeria, he was not allowed to study that course even

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though that was what tickled his interest.

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So I wonder like you have been privileged to study nuclear science or nuclear physics

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and what surrounds it.

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So I was like, okay, so did you have it in mind before going for it or you just got a

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spark of interest when you went there or like, can you tell us the story about how you are

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trying an expert in nuclear physics at this time?

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Some people might want to hear that.

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Okay, thank you very much.

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While I was doing my first degree at the lab tech in Oguma Shoe in pure and applied physics,

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so we have components on the final year course which includes nuclear technology and I can

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remember we have only one lecturer from OAU that comes into lecture at Oguma Shoe at that

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time.

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So that inspired me to go further in the area of nuclear.

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So in that time, I have no prior background in experimental aspects of nuclear physics.

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But what we thought in the class that time was the theoretical aspect.

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Of course, that's applicable in most.

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Yeah, I can't get to that because I'm also a product of Nigeria.

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Can you take us a little bit closer to that experience?

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I wouldn't want to say that it's just okay because it's just one person coming from OAU.

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But there's some interesting aspect of what he was teaching that drew you closer because

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nuclear engineering in Nigeria is not done at the undergraduate level.

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I would also suffice to say that it is most likely still in the style in which you got

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it and that it is still given at this time.

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Although plans are underway to get it into the undergraduate level.

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So I wonder what aspects or was it just because it was different or it was just unique or

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you don't have a professor for it or I don't know.

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Can you just, was there any particular thing or just because of the lack of it?

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Yeah.

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So the particular aspect of it when we thought about radiation because we know that in chemistry

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when you mix different chemicals together you can see what reaction comes from.

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Whether it comes to different colors or something like that.

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Yes.

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But for physics aspect in terms of radiation, you know alpha, beta and gamma.

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So where do they come from?

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Can we see them and the professor say no, you can't see them.

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So how can we know is alpha, beta and gamma radiation emanating from some specific

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radioactive material.

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So that's like, I want to know more about these aspects.

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So I think you are curious about the unknown a lot.

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So I think our listeners should also listen to an episode that we had an interview with

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professor Tim Jogginsen from University of Utah in Washington where he dealt very, very

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well with the story of radiation.

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And it's a very, very interesting episode.

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I urge everyone listening to actually go to that episode and listen to that although we

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are going to have subsequent iterations.

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So back to you professor.

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I would want to know like, you know, the society in which we live in Nigeria, the kind of development

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we're experiencing is not as fast-paced as expected.

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And that will somehow impact on the research community.

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Although giant strides have been made and publications have been made, we as Africans

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need to take our future in our hands to some extent.

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So I wouldn't know, are there some challenges you may say there are challenges or maybe

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some things that are a little bit of an issue in the nuclear community you think should

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be changed for Africa?

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Okay.

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For African countries to make a very useful contribution towards science and innovation,

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we should aim for a level of scientific research excellence within a milieu of unfettered inquiry

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and the continents will continue to languish in the threat of poverty.

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If this on-resurrect research is not put into place, so many African countries will continue

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to go deeper into challenges.

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Every continent has its own challenge.

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But for Africa, we know.

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We know the unique number one challenge comes with finance.

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Resource management.

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If the issue of finance has been overcome, then the second thing we need to look at is

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implementation of policies because Africans, they know how to write policies in paper.

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Very true.

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The main issue is how we implement this policy and continued commitments from our government.

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So many of the capital projects have been written on paper, but there's no way of implementing

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those projects for the benefit of the citizens.

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So implementation is very important.

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We have to move further away from policy and then we develop economic change, which is called

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policy economic.

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So policy without implementation doesn't resort to anything.

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Wow, I've got a new word, policy economy.

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Wow, that's very interesting.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Thank you, Professor.

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These days, you have really gone high on the echelon of science and research.

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And it's kind of a level where you have a lot of male dominating it.

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So I wonder, like, do you feel any difference or challenge or like, what kind of, do you

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have any friction?

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Like, is there any difference you are feeling?

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Because I understand you are part of the women in nuclear in the global level and also women

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in physics in South Africa and a lot of other groups that involve the women folk.

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So I wonder, like, what kind of activities do you engage or how do you position yourself

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to function optimally in a male dominated environment?

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That's a very critical question you asked me because for women, it's a double challenge

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in the area of science, technology, engineering and mathematics concept.

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Yes.

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And it has been a challenge.

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And for someone to have to make sure that you work on that challenge and change it to

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opportunity.

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Working in the nuclear research area has given me more opportunity to see myself as individual

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not as a woman.

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So individual contributing to the great scientific innovation and when it's gender, it became

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a very sensitive topic because we are all women in the first place.

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So gender comes in and everything becomes more and more difficult.

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So we have to be optimistic and we should be able to make our self stand on our two feet

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as a woman in order to compete with other gender in any aspect that we find ourselves.

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Wow.

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That's very enlightening from you, Professor.

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This brings me to the second to the last question in this episode.

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I hope that you will give us more time to interact with you in the future because I see you have

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a great wealth of knowledge to give to our audience.

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So the question I want to ask you is this because you are in the nuclear community.

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For you to continue in it, you are to the level of being a professor.

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You must have made a lot of impact in society.

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And we wonder like what does nuclear technology mean to you as an individual and what do you

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want it to mean to the society as well if we didn't see it in the way you are seeing

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it, Professor?

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I see nuclear technology as a powerhouse for the future of Africa.

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Wow.

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We are in building a bridge to sustainable development.

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Interesting.

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So when we have a very stable energy, every other thing follows.

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And this can also make development in other areas, whether social or cultural or innovation

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or inspiration for open.

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Wow.

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Thank you so, so much, Professor.

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I want to think that you are involved in women in nuclear in the global level and also other

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organizations.

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And you've talked about your contributions and the challenges you faced and how we must

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rise above them.

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And also what nuclear technology means to you and what we as Africans or the public in

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general should see as what it means to us.

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This brings me to the last question, Professor.

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I admire so much how you have ascended the ladder of academia.

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And I wonder like some people listening to me are just secondary school students.

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Some of them are in the university.

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Some of them are undecided about where they will go from now.

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So I wonder like, do you have anything to share about the resources that has helped

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you to progress to the level in which you are now that will be useful to our audience,

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Professor?

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Okay.

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Thank you very much.

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I think first of all, personal development is very important because there's no limit

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to what you can learn.

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So knowledge has no limit.

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We need to focus on ourselves and then opportunity comes.

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We don't run away from opportunity because there's no opportunity that doesn't come

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with each other or challenges.

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So we should take opportunity when it comes at the right time.

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And also the general aspects of African governments or the policymakers should have special opportunities

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in made for women generally, either in science or non-science related area of education.

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Because that has helped me towards achieving this goal, the investment of South African

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governments in human capital resources and training through the Department of Science

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and Innovation has contributed towards my development in this area for the past years

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that's up in here and also internationally, the organizations which has the International

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Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA, there's the German DAAD which provides financial support especially

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for women from South African and also the financial support towards professional development

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and training from the USA Department of State.

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So for those women who are listening to this program, if you're not afraid of challenges,

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then nuclear research area is best for you because it takes you everywhere, all over the world.

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Fantastic, it gives you wings.

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Thank you so much Professor for the very informative and since the late in session we've had and

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I want to say that I'm very much enriched by the discussion and I believe our audience

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will be as well.

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So I want to thank you especially for this time.

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I wonder if you have any last words you just want to say to our audience and then we will

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call it a time.

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Okay, to my female colleagues, there is a woman in nuclear global, a membership is free

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and you have many benefits as a member of women in nuclear in terms of mentorship and

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networking by meeting people from the same industry peers and also there is a conference

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for women in nuclear global.

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This year is going to be between 17th and 21st of October in Canada that due to COVID related

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issue it will be done virtually online.

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So you can check the women in nuclear.com website to apply for this conference participation

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and there's IAEA support for women from sub-Saharan African to attend and participate in this

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global conference.

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Thank you.

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Thank you very, very much Professor.

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I'm so, so pleased to have you today.

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Thank you Mr. Ambassador.

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Thank you so much.

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So yeah, I appreciate.

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Okay, so this brings me to the end of the call and yeah, I cast so much.