Have you heard of the world policy economy?
Africa is so rich in research and policy formulation, nuclear policy inclusive, but implementation
is challenging.
In this episode we have Professor Iyabo Usman from Wixwater Strand University in South Africa
talking about her journey from Nigeria to South Africa, contributing immensely to local,
regional and global research development in nuclear science and physics.
She even tells us about Higgs Pozen, the card particle.
She is a professor of experimental physics and leader of the Wix Nuclear Structure Research
Group.
Her research areas include nuclear structure, radiation and reactor physics.
She has about 18 MSc and PhD students under her supervision.
She has been very active in women in nuclear, global and women in physics, South Africa.
She serves on the Council of South African Institute of Physics with industrial liaison
portfolio.
She is a member of the Program Advice Committee at Itemba Labs, Sepreti Sector Cyclotron and
an active member of the Nuclear Industry Association of South Africa, Niasa.
She serves as a reviewer of journals of radiation physics and chemistry, radiation research
and applied sciences, as well as southern region editor of African Physics newsletter.
Are you as excited as I am?
Then listen to the end.
I want to thank you for honoring the invitation to be on today's episode of the AFRINNUK
podcast.
Thank you for the invitation.
This podcast aims to sift various views of nuclear technology from different parts of
the world through the African voice.
It may not be restricted to the African community because nuclear technology is location neutral.
So to start with, Professor, I have observed your contribution to the nuclear community
in Africa, especially in South Africa.
You have been there contributing to the knowledge and human research and building people in general
and contributing to the community.
So can you tell us a bit about you and what you do and the capacity in which you are functioning
in the place you are right now, Professor?
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Mbazor.
My name is Iyabo Jino-Ola Usman.
I'm a professor of nuclear physics in the School of Physics, University of Witwatersrand
and joining us from South Africa.
And I'm the leader of the Nuclear Structure Research Group.
I was born as the 21st child of the Ojehtimi family in Ede Ocean States, Nigeria.
Fantastic.
And I attended Ladau K. Akintola University of Technology, Kuguma shop for my first degree
in pure and applied physics.
Cool.
Before I emigrated to South Africa in 2005 to continue with my postgraduate study that
is MSc and PhD in nuclear physics.
Still MSc, PhD.
Wow, it's such a privilege to talk with the son.
I wouldn't say son, but daughter of the soil.
Thank you.
So Professor, you have been in South Africa from what you said and most African countries
flock to South Africa because they have a better infrastructure, they have a better
lifestyle, if Nigerians inclusive.
But things are changing in these days.
I wonder like what is it like and coming from when you were there and up till this time
and talking about how that impacts the academic environment.
Can you kind of take us through the journey of how the society has transitioned and what
are the pros and cons and how the future looks like for especially the nuclear technology
and also academia and life in general, if you may say.
Thank you.
In terms of the development, I think the South African government pushing more towards the
science and innovation and this has been considered as the instrument for development.
So investments from the South African government in terms of human capital resources and training
in the area of nuclear science and technology through the Department of Science and Innovation
is a very contributing factor into the South African development, not only in nuclear,
but in all areas of basic science and development.
So and through this, most of the international organizations also come to join, you know,
when things are going well in the country, other international countries would like to
come and help in that area.
So most of the things that have been put in place by the South African government being
lifted up through financial support by other international organizations.
So especially in terms of research, we have many collaborative research infrastructure
in place for nuclear science and technology, most of the collaboration comes from the through
the energy research from European countries.
So many South African energy researchers go to send, you know, where we have the large
hydrocollider.
Yeah.
And most of them have contributed immensely into the development in that area.
Wow.
And we also have...
Excited.
Yeah.
Please tell us the story if you have an experience, please.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
Okay.
Because if there's no local support, there's no way the international organizations can
come in.
So every year, the South African government contributes large amounts of money towards
research going on at SEND.
And they encourage many young, like, at least the early career researchers to join that
group and develop their success.
Not only in the area of physics, there are technology, innovation, electronics as well.
So they contribute to this area.
Wow.
Another large collaboration that South African has is with Russia.
We have South Africa Jones Institute for Nuclear Research in Dovno, where many researchers
in South Africa have collaborative projects going on.
So those are the two major international collaborations with regards to nuclear science.
That's fantastic.
It's really, really intriguing to see the great connections.
When I think of SEND, it's like the top notch of nuclear science in the whole world.
That's where you have the biggest, do I say, cyclotron, like where the electrons get to
do the job around a very big circumference.
So I wonder, like, are you guys aiming towards what Stephen Hawkins have predicted?
Like, have you kind of made any groundbreaking discovery in the hydron collider?
Yeah.
In 2017, there was a big announcement about the discovery of Ig's boson.
And they called it God's particle.
Yeah.
What's that about?
I really don't know what that is.
Like, although I read about it, but I really didn't go into details of what, why did they
call it a God particle?
Really?
Yeah, because it has not been discovered before in terms of particles that have been researched
both in the theory.
And in that year, it was firstly observed and discovered through experiments.
Okay.
You know, the common man listening to this podcast, we'll be wondering, how does this
concern me?
Like why should I be interested in nuclear physics or science, for example?
Like, okay, so maybe my brother who read physics comes home and then he's just talking
about XYZ, he's talking about neutrons, electrons, none of them I can differentiate.
Like, I'm like, okay, so why should I worry?
Like it doesn't put food on the table for me except you are earning some salary.
So but why should I be excited?
Because a common man on the street, especially in Africa, yes, you know, we have more existential
challenges than worrying about what is happening at the Large Hadron Collider, you know, although
we should be contributing and also concerned about it.
If you look at the generality of the African community and the level of our, do I say development,
I wouldn't want to demean it, but looking at the realities on ground, I think we need
to get more enlightenment from experts like you, why we should be happy with doing nuclear
physics or nuclear science, putting away that we should have passion for abstract things
or stuffs like that.
What should we hope for if we go into nuclear physics?
Like if I have a child now, like, okay, and there is a future, like everybody or the scientific
community is looking up to that when we get to this level in the future, okay, this will
be what we'll be able to do, we'll be able to make some kind of special machines.
Do you have any kind of illustration of why the common man should be happy with nuclear
physics and how it impacts him in some way?
Okay, thank you, Mr. Mbazel.
Nuclear has been in existence since the Manhattan Project and the prior aim was to develop a
nuclear bomb.
So after that incident and the World War occurred and ended, that technology has been transferred
towards the constructive way that is in terms of energy development and that is how the
nuclear power is made.
So even now that we're talking, you are somewhere far from me and we're still having conversation
through internet.
So this development comes right from the nuclear research, the World Wide Web.
If you can go and...
Yeah, understand the only part of the physics aspect, right?
If you are doing research, you don't expect what is going to come out of it.
So pure basic research have opportunities for many advantages that you can't even think
of.
So for Africans to devote on pure applied sciences, it emerges right from the pure basic
science.
And basic sciences are being done at some highest level of scientific research excellence.
So that means that more innovation will come out of it, which will be of socioeconomic
benefits to all human kinds.
The benefits doesn't apply to only the people in that research area.
It is applicable to people all over the world and that is the benefit we are experiencing
now and we are enjoying all day.
That's perfect.
I would want to say that we should be expecting those useful mistakes to happen in nuclear
physics experiments so that the common man will be very happy.
Just what you said about internet discovery and stuff like that.
So Professor, your career has been very interesting and moving from Nigeria to South Africa, I
wonder because one of those times I was talking with one man in one of the government offices
and he was like when he was to go abroad, so he was giving options of courses to study.
Nuclear physics, nuclear engineering was one of it, but because he's coming from the
place he is coming from, which is Nigeria, he was not allowed to study that course even
though that was what tickled his interest.
So I wonder like you have been privileged to study nuclear science or nuclear physics
and what surrounds it.
So I was like, okay, so did you have it in mind before going for it or you just got a
spark of interest when you went there or like, can you tell us the story about how you are
trying an expert in nuclear physics at this time?
Some people might want to hear that.
Okay, thank you very much.
While I was doing my first degree at the lab tech in Oguma Shoe in pure and applied physics,
so we have components on the final year course which includes nuclear technology and I can
remember we have only one lecturer from OAU that comes into lecture at Oguma Shoe at that
time.
So that inspired me to go further in the area of nuclear.
So in that time, I have no prior background in experimental aspects of nuclear physics.
But what we thought in the class that time was the theoretical aspect.
Of course, that's applicable in most.
Yeah, I can't get to that because I'm also a product of Nigeria.
Can you take us a little bit closer to that experience?
I wouldn't want to say that it's just okay because it's just one person coming from OAU.
But there's some interesting aspect of what he was teaching that drew you closer because
nuclear engineering in Nigeria is not done at the undergraduate level.
I would also suffice to say that it is most likely still in the style in which you got
it and that it is still given at this time.
Although plans are underway to get it into the undergraduate level.
So I wonder what aspects or was it just because it was different or it was just unique or
you don't have a professor for it or I don't know.
Can you just, was there any particular thing or just because of the lack of it?
Yeah.
So the particular aspect of it when we thought about radiation because we know that in chemistry
when you mix different chemicals together you can see what reaction comes from.
Whether it comes to different colors or something like that.
Yes.
But for physics aspect in terms of radiation, you know alpha, beta and gamma.
So where do they come from?
Can we see them and the professor say no, you can't see them.
So how can we know is alpha, beta and gamma radiation emanating from some specific
radioactive material.
So that's like, I want to know more about these aspects.
So I think you are curious about the unknown a lot.
So I think our listeners should also listen to an episode that we had an interview with
professor Tim Jogginsen from University of Utah in Washington where he dealt very, very
well with the story of radiation.
And it's a very, very interesting episode.
I urge everyone listening to actually go to that episode and listen to that although we
are going to have subsequent iterations.
So back to you professor.
I would want to know like, you know, the society in which we live in Nigeria, the kind of development
we're experiencing is not as fast-paced as expected.
And that will somehow impact on the research community.
Although giant strides have been made and publications have been made, we as Africans
need to take our future in our hands to some extent.
So I wouldn't know, are there some challenges you may say there are challenges or maybe
some things that are a little bit of an issue in the nuclear community you think should
be changed for Africa?
Okay.
For African countries to make a very useful contribution towards science and innovation,
we should aim for a level of scientific research excellence within a milieu of unfettered inquiry
and the continents will continue to languish in the threat of poverty.
If this on-resurrect research is not put into place, so many African countries will continue
to go deeper into challenges.
Every continent has its own challenge.
But for Africa, we know.
We know the unique number one challenge comes with finance.
Resource management.
If the issue of finance has been overcome, then the second thing we need to look at is
implementation of policies because Africans, they know how to write policies in paper.
Very true.
The main issue is how we implement this policy and continued commitments from our government.
So many of the capital projects have been written on paper, but there's no way of implementing
those projects for the benefit of the citizens.
So implementation is very important.
We have to move further away from policy and then we develop economic change, which is called
policy economic.
So policy without implementation doesn't resort to anything.
Wow, I've got a new word, policy economy.
Wow, that's very interesting.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you, Professor.
These days, you have really gone high on the echelon of science and research.
And it's kind of a level where you have a lot of male dominating it.
So I wonder, like, do you feel any difference or challenge or like, what kind of, do you
have any friction?
Like, is there any difference you are feeling?
Because I understand you are part of the women in nuclear in the global level and also women
in physics in South Africa and a lot of other groups that involve the women folk.
So I wonder, like, what kind of activities do you engage or how do you position yourself
to function optimally in a male dominated environment?
That's a very critical question you asked me because for women, it's a double challenge
in the area of science, technology, engineering and mathematics concept.
Yes.
And it has been a challenge.
And for someone to have to make sure that you work on that challenge and change it to
opportunity.
Working in the nuclear research area has given me more opportunity to see myself as individual
not as a woman.
So individual contributing to the great scientific innovation and when it's gender, it became
a very sensitive topic because we are all women in the first place.
So gender comes in and everything becomes more and more difficult.
So we have to be optimistic and we should be able to make our self stand on our two feet
as a woman in order to compete with other gender in any aspect that we find ourselves.
Wow.
That's very enlightening from you, Professor.
This brings me to the second to the last question in this episode.
I hope that you will give us more time to interact with you in the future because I see you have
a great wealth of knowledge to give to our audience.
So the question I want to ask you is this because you are in the nuclear community.
For you to continue in it, you are to the level of being a professor.
You must have made a lot of impact in society.
And we wonder like what does nuclear technology mean to you as an individual and what do you
want it to mean to the society as well if we didn't see it in the way you are seeing
it, Professor?
I see nuclear technology as a powerhouse for the future of Africa.
Wow.
We are in building a bridge to sustainable development.
Interesting.
So when we have a very stable energy, every other thing follows.
And this can also make development in other areas, whether social or cultural or innovation
or inspiration for open.
Wow.
Thank you so, so much, Professor.
I want to think that you are involved in women in nuclear in the global level and also other
organizations.
And you've talked about your contributions and the challenges you faced and how we must
rise above them.
And also what nuclear technology means to you and what we as Africans or the public in
general should see as what it means to us.
This brings me to the last question, Professor.
I admire so much how you have ascended the ladder of academia.
And I wonder like some people listening to me are just secondary school students.
Some of them are in the university.
Some of them are undecided about where they will go from now.
So I wonder like, do you have anything to share about the resources that has helped
you to progress to the level in which you are now that will be useful to our audience,
Professor?
Okay.
Thank you very much.
I think first of all, personal development is very important because there's no limit
to what you can learn.
So knowledge has no limit.
We need to focus on ourselves and then opportunity comes.
We don't run away from opportunity because there's no opportunity that doesn't come
with each other or challenges.
So we should take opportunity when it comes at the right time.
And also the general aspects of African governments or the policymakers should have special opportunities
in made for women generally, either in science or non-science related area of education.
Because that has helped me towards achieving this goal, the investment of South African
governments in human capital resources and training through the Department of Science
and Innovation has contributed towards my development in this area for the past years
that's up in here and also internationally, the organizations which has the International
Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA, there's the German DAAD which provides financial support especially
for women from South African and also the financial support towards professional development
and training from the USA Department of State.
So for those women who are listening to this program, if you're not afraid of challenges,
then nuclear research area is best for you because it takes you everywhere, all over the world.
Fantastic, it gives you wings.
Thank you so much Professor for the very informative and since the late in session we've had and
I want to say that I'm very much enriched by the discussion and I believe our audience
will be as well.
So I want to thank you especially for this time.
I wonder if you have any last words you just want to say to our audience and then we will
call it a time.
Okay, to my female colleagues, there is a woman in nuclear global, a membership is free
and you have many benefits as a member of women in nuclear in terms of mentorship and
networking by meeting people from the same industry peers and also there is a conference
for women in nuclear global.
This year is going to be between 17th and 21st of October in Canada that due to COVID related
issue it will be done virtually online.
So you can check the women in nuclear.com website to apply for this conference participation
and there's IAEA support for women from sub-Saharan African to attend and participate in this
global conference.
Thank you.
Thank you very, very much Professor.
I'm so, so pleased to have you today.
Thank you Mr. Ambassador.
Thank you so much.
So yeah, I appreciate.
Okay, so this brings me to the end of the call and yeah, I cast so much.