WEBVTT 00:00:02.139 --> 00:00:06.480 Welcome to the MedTech Talent Lab, the number 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.560 one catalyst for advancing careers and building 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:13.019 high -performance teams. Sponsored by the Anthony 00:00:13.019 --> 00:00:16.320 Michael Group, helping companies secure in -demand 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:20.399 talent in regulatory affairs, quality, clinical, 00:00:20.859 --> 00:00:24.940 engineering, R &D, and other areas for medical 00:00:24.940 --> 00:00:28.800 device, digital health, diagnostics, and other 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:32.340 organizations across the US life sciences sector. 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:41.719 Here's your host, Mitch Robbins. All right, welcome 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:44.600 back to another episode here on the MedTech Talent 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:48.139 Lab podcast. I am your host, Mitch Robbins. managing 00:00:48.139 --> 00:00:50.100 director and founder at the Anthony Michael Group, 00:00:50.179 --> 00:00:52.539 where we build companies and careers across the 00:00:52.539 --> 00:00:56.399 industry. And I am proud to host today, Miss 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.539 Carolyn Twomey, excuse me, who is the global 00:00:59.539 --> 00:01:01.859 vice president of medical affairs and research 00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:05.219 at Iramax Corporation. Carolyn has spent the 00:01:05.219 --> 00:01:07.400 better part of the last 12 years leading medical 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.159 affairs and research at the organization. And 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.840 prior to that, as a nurse by trade, she had a 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.780 storied career in the hospital world. having 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:19.400 worked as an OR nurse, as a director of cardiac 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.319 cath labs, and eventually as the global head 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:26.680 of clinical services for Molnlica Healthcare. 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:29.879 For those unfamiliar with Iramax, the company 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.299 is a wholly owned subsidiary of Innovation Technologies 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:36.200 and is a pioneer in wound irrigation, providing 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:39.359 an alternative method to traditional irrigation 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:43.620 with its flagship patented product, Iricep. Without 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:46.640 further ado, Carolyn, welcome to the show. Thank 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.099 you. Thank you. I'm so glad that you're here. 00:01:49.219 --> 00:01:53.120 And a couple things. How did I do pronouncing 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.680 monglika? You did a great job. I tried my best 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.780 because that is a mouthful. But, you know, we 00:01:59.780 --> 00:02:02.599 were speaking up just offline for a minute or 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:04.859 two before we got started here. And you told 00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:07.159 me something that kind of rocked my world a little 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:11.340 bit, which is you are a cancer survivor and you're 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:14.400 a cancer survivor since I think 2008 is what 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:17.139 you said, is that right? That's right. Unreal. 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:20.580 Well, I'm so glad that you're here with us today. 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:24.479 And I'm interested to learn your backstory for 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.439 our audience. And we're going to get into a variety 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.659 of different things. But one thing we absolutely 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:31.840 do share is the hospital world. So I used to 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.860 do hospital leadership recruiting for years prior 00:02:35.860 --> 00:02:38.180 to starting the Anthony Michael Group. fairly 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:41.060 familiar with the cardiac cath lab and the OR 00:02:41.060 --> 00:02:42.819 and all that stuff, because we used to place 00:02:42.819 --> 00:02:46.159 a variety of nursing leaders in different parts 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.259 of the country. But we're here to talk about 00:02:48.259 --> 00:02:50.620 you. And in order to talk about kind of where 00:02:50.620 --> 00:02:53.520 you're at today, I always think it's fun to go 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:55.860 back in time to your formative years and really 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:59.960 kind of understand the foundation. So with that, 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:01.740 where'd you grow up? What was home life like? 00:03:03.010 --> 00:03:05.189 Well, I grew up all over the country. We moved 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:08.870 a lot when I was younger and living with my my 00:03:08.870 --> 00:03:11.509 parents So we lived all over the country and 00:03:11.509 --> 00:03:15.530 even in Guadalajara, Mexico For a period of time. 00:03:15.569 --> 00:03:19.330 So a lot of a lot of opportunities to meet different 00:03:19.330 --> 00:03:23.169 people move Sort of reset yourself start over 00:03:23.169 --> 00:03:28.270 again It was a novel experience I have now lived 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.300 in a place for many, many years. When I moved 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:33.400 where I am today, I'd never lived anywhere more 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:37.139 than five years. Wow. Yeah. Was it your mom or 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:38.819 your dad's job that took you different places, 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:43.259 or what was it? My dad's job. Do you have siblings? 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:48.400 I had a sister who died of a brain tumor. Oh, 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.460 wow. Yep. Both of you had cancer. Unbelievable. 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.680 And neither of those cancers run in our family 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.580 to our knowledge. Unreal. Was she older or younger 00:03:58.580 --> 00:04:09.240 than you? Younger. Unbelievable. Yeah. Wow. How 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.560 long ago was that? We had cancer at the same 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.199 time. Are you serious? She was diagnosed first. 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:18.279 Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry to hear that. Yeah. 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:22.420 No, it was a difficult couple of years. I couldn't 00:04:22.420 --> 00:04:24.259 have made it without my husband and he drove 00:04:24.259 --> 00:04:30.100 her. Every day to treatment. Unreal. Yeah. Well, 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:32.199 as you were growing up, you were in different 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:36.060 places throughout your childhood. What held your 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:41.819 interest over those years? Well, I was interested 00:04:41.819 --> 00:04:49.480 in so many things. As a young person, I was first 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:53.149 and foremost very involved in music. I thought 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:55.269 that was going to be my career. As a matter of 00:04:55.269 --> 00:04:58.990 fact, I applied to music school universities 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:03.870 or programs even in my junior and senior year 00:05:03.870 --> 00:05:09.269 of high school. I woke up in May of my senior 00:05:09.269 --> 00:05:12.230 year and went, I don't want to sit in little 00:05:12.230 --> 00:05:15.889 practice rooms the rest of my life. I really 00:05:15.889 --> 00:05:22.939 wanted to be a performance musician. And I realized 00:05:22.939 --> 00:05:29.420 that I needed people around me a lot. So I like 00:05:29.420 --> 00:05:32.040 working as part of a team. I like all of those 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:34.899 things. And you don't get that as a performing 00:05:34.899 --> 00:05:39.000 musician typically. We have the music thing in 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.180 common. I did it professionally for a period 00:05:41.180 --> 00:05:44.480 of time as well. But question, what's your instrument? 00:05:45.389 --> 00:05:47.610 Well, they told me to be performance. I had to 00:05:47.610 --> 00:05:51.050 play two. So I, piano was my primary, but I sat 00:05:51.050 --> 00:05:53.810 first chair cello for many, many, many years. 00:05:54.430 --> 00:05:57.050 Okay. And I still love it. It still sits under 00:05:57.050 --> 00:06:00.250 my piano here at home. So they always say that 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:02.910 math and science are connected as far as the 00:06:02.910 --> 00:06:04.850 piece of your brain. How did you end up going 00:06:04.850 --> 00:06:07.230 down the road of becoming a nurse? Cause you're 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:09.769 a nurse by trade and kind of getting into that 00:06:09.769 --> 00:06:15.959 world. I started as a biology major because after 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:18.480 figuring out that I really didn't want to do 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.160 performance music, that for me it was a passion 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.639 and something I did for the joy of it and not 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:29.550 my job. opportunity and the pleasure of meeting 00:06:29.550 --> 00:06:33.470 several renowned pianists. And for them, it had 00:06:33.470 --> 00:06:36.990 become a job. They didn't have family that sang 00:06:36.990 --> 00:06:39.250 around the piano while you prayed Christmas music 00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:42.790 or whatever that was. It was really a job and 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:46.470 that was a big part of that decision. So I went 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:48.569 into science. It was my next interest. And I 00:06:48.569 --> 00:06:51.389 went into biology first and then decided to go 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:58.949 into nursing. Wow. I'm thinking about what you 00:06:58.949 --> 00:07:00.649 were saying as far, so you were a senior in high 00:07:00.649 --> 00:07:02.850 school and you decided, hey, this is not the 00:07:02.850 --> 00:07:04.149 road I wanna go, I wanna keep it as a hobby. 00:07:04.230 --> 00:07:06.990 Do you still play today? I do. I play at home. 00:07:07.329 --> 00:07:09.470 Yeah, I don't play, I used to play for weddings 00:07:09.470 --> 00:07:12.709 and things. I don't have that time anymore. Yeah, 00:07:13.110 --> 00:07:15.589 I hear that. Believe me, I hear that. That's 00:07:15.589 --> 00:07:17.209 good though that you keep up with it as a hobby 00:07:17.209 --> 00:07:19.829 and as a passion. Oh, I love it. It's part of 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:22.829 who I am. So you worked for many, many years. 00:07:22.889 --> 00:07:25.709 Like I said, you did OR nursing. You worked in 00:07:25.709 --> 00:07:28.009 the cath lab. I knew that you taught at a medical 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.470 college, if I'm not mistaken, right? Medical 00:07:30.470 --> 00:07:33.230 College of Virginia. Yeah. How did you end up 00:07:33.230 --> 00:07:37.829 on the manufacturing side of this? Oh, I call 00:07:37.829 --> 00:07:41.610 it going to the dark side. That's what they say 00:07:41.610 --> 00:07:46.889 about recruiting. Probably do, yeah. I was sitting 00:07:46.889 --> 00:07:53.550 in an OR... or late start morning listening to 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:56.829 somebody come speak from a company and she said 00:07:56.829 --> 00:07:58.410 something as a part of her talk and I didn't 00:07:58.410 --> 00:08:02.649 believe her. I was the OR educator at the time 00:08:02.649 --> 00:08:05.709 and I got up in the middle of her talk and I 00:08:05.709 --> 00:08:09.910 went and pulled a pair of sterile gloves and 00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:12.649 I had never read the package and she had said 00:08:12.649 --> 00:08:14.870 there's a caution or warning statement on the 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:17.389 front of it from the FDA that you had to wash 00:08:17.389 --> 00:08:20.959 your gloves before you use them. I didn't believe 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.800 her and it was there. And I went and sat back 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:28.199 down and then I started a project for my hospital. 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:34.519 This was during the latex allergy era and all 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.919 of the challenges there. And I went to my director 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.460 of nursing and I said, we need to have a committee. 00:08:40.940 --> 00:08:43.480 And I started a committee and it was very effective. 00:08:43.779 --> 00:08:46.299 She asked me if I would broaden it out for the 00:08:46.299 --> 00:08:49.320 corporate hospital group. in the state, which 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:52.559 I did. And when that happened and I was holding 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:55.960 bigger meetings, a company who was very involved 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.360 in latex allergy asked if I would come and be 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.320 a part of, at the time, their clinical services 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:06.799 team. And I'd always kind of wondered about doing 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:09.600 that. And I came home and talked to my husband 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.539 and said, let's try it for a year. And that was 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:17.639 1997. Wow. Yeah. And that was the kind of the 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.899 pivotal moment at that point. It was. It was. 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:23.019 And then when you got into this, though, you 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:27.919 had already been the global head of clinical 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:30.000 services for the health care system at the time, 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.860 right? No. No, no. I'd been a director in different 00:09:33.860 --> 00:09:36.700 divisions. I'd been, you know, depending on where 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:38.919 I worked at the Medical College of Wisconsin 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:43.139 or here in Virginia, I'd been directors of departments, 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:50.789 but not a global division. Okay. So one of the 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:53.330 things I want to get your insights on is the 00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:56.250 idea of working at startups because obviously 00:09:56.250 --> 00:09:59.750 you have that experience and I want to hear it 00:09:59.750 --> 00:10:01.470 from you. I want the audience to hear it from 00:10:01.470 --> 00:10:04.470 you because you've lived it. Who is startup life 00:10:04.470 --> 00:10:10.429 for? Who is it not for? Well, it's certainly 00:10:10.429 --> 00:10:14.480 not for the faint of heart. It is not for one 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:22.840 who wants to work a 40 -hour week. If you want 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.820 to wear a lot of hats, and when you're a young 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:29.100 company and you're five or six employees and 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:33.019 you haven't really even gone to market fully 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:38.279 yet, and you're trying to build evidence to support 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:43.679 a product or build a group of clinical people 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:50.159 who you can talk to about that. It takes a person 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.919 who's willing to go and do and do different things, 00:10:53.059 --> 00:11:01.019 take on different initiatives. And you're very 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:13.370 single -minded in those days. How so? I did not 00:11:13.370 --> 00:11:17.090 have time for a lot of things like music or other 00:11:17.090 --> 00:11:19.509 initiatives. I had a young daughter. Any extra 00:11:19.509 --> 00:11:22.570 energy I had went to that. Went to her and time 00:11:22.570 --> 00:11:27.909 with her and my family. But that's about it. 00:11:28.649 --> 00:11:33.809 It is a very demanding time. It's a very exciting 00:11:33.809 --> 00:11:37.549 time. It's a roller coaster in so many ways. 00:11:38.899 --> 00:11:41.279 It's truly not for the faint of heart than to 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.779 sit at a table and go, we don't have enough money 00:11:43.779 --> 00:11:47.720 for payroll and this and this and this and look 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:49.620 at it very soberly and go, what are we going 00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:54.440 to do next? Yeah, it's not for the faint of heart, 00:11:54.639 --> 00:12:00.019 but it is. I love it. I love doing it. It is 00:12:00.019 --> 00:12:03.580 fun. It's challenging. You had the opportunity 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:06.799 to be innovative and think in very different 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:09.059 ways. I worked for a very big company. Molnica 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:13.519 is a very big global company. And this is just 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.480 so qualitatively different when we were a startup. 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:20.919 We were actually acquired by a company this year, 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:26.480 or the end of last year. So it has been an adventure 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.279 from full stop and now it's a different adventure 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:34.490 and it's very fun. That's awesome. And so that's 00:12:34.490 --> 00:12:36.190 exactly the plan was gonna make is I think that 00:12:36.190 --> 00:12:38.850 people who? Haven't had the experience of working 00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:45.669 in a startup before See the The golden nuggets 00:12:45.669 --> 00:12:48.110 so to speak they see friends who have gone through 00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:52.629 successful exits and Very wealthy and they came 00:12:52.629 --> 00:12:55.090 out at the other end You know with their pockets 00:12:55.090 --> 00:12:57.490 a lot fuller than they went into it and then 00:12:57.490 --> 00:12:59.629 those people go on and do it again perhaps again, 00:13:00.149 --> 00:13:03.649 but so many of these don't make it to that funding 00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:08.730 or whatever the challenges are. And a lot of 00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:11.269 times people are left, you know, holding an empty 00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:13.330 bag, but all their blood, sweat and tears is 00:13:13.330 --> 00:13:15.809 put into it. So obviously it's a calculated risk. 00:13:15.950 --> 00:13:18.370 And I think people obviously need to understand 00:13:18.370 --> 00:13:22.570 that going into it, but. Well, you could go into 00:13:22.570 --> 00:13:26.299 it. You could build a company. And I think we 00:13:26.299 --> 00:13:28.480 were on the cusp of this at one point in time. 00:13:28.659 --> 00:13:33.259 There's so many stages you go through, but they 00:13:33.259 --> 00:13:35.320 could just build out the company and run it as 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:40.279 a company. And then your options that you have 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.100 and you're holding have no value. So I mean, 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.460 there are a lot of ways there could potentially 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:49.600 not be that golden nugget you're talking about. 00:13:49.950 --> 00:13:52.269 Do you have any suggestions as to how people 00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:54.570 vet out what they're getting into when they're 00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:56.070 interviewing, if they decide to interview with 00:13:56.070 --> 00:14:03.250 some startups? For me, it has to be a real game 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:08.529 changer. It can't be something that's me too. 00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:12.169 It has to be something that is novel, never been 00:14:12.169 --> 00:14:14.750 tried before. Novel not being the regulatory 00:14:14.750 --> 00:14:21.090 word, but novel to a clinician. a game changer 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:25.389 for a clinician. And for me, it's very relatable 00:14:25.389 --> 00:14:29.669 to clinical practice, something that brings huge 00:14:29.669 --> 00:14:32.789 clinical benefit to those you're trying to bring 00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:35.649 it to. If you're just trying to give them a little 00:14:35.649 --> 00:14:39.029 incremental something, I think it would be very 00:14:39.029 --> 00:14:44.110 hard. In my opinion, it would be hard. But to 00:14:44.110 --> 00:14:47.620 have something truly novel. and something that 00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:51.759 is a game changer for, in my case, surgeons and 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.460 their outcomes. And of course, that means patients, 00:14:55.460 --> 00:14:57.799 and they still remain very important to me, have 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:01.679 better outcomes than all of those things are 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:07.960 going to drive interest adoption. Because if 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:16.320 you can't find early adopters, it's a very difficult 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.220 road. You know, in those very early years when 00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:22.460 you're still building science and you're still 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:25.379 building data, no, you don't have a randomized 00:15:25.379 --> 00:15:28.659 control clinical trial and whatever those other 00:15:28.659 --> 00:15:31.559 components are that people are looking for. You 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:34.379 don't have referral hospitals who are going to 00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:36.220 stand up and say, yeah, we use it and we love 00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:39.759 it. Because you're selling to one surgeon at 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.179 a time at that point in the early days. Right. 00:15:44.299 --> 00:15:46.960 Let me ask you this. On the flip side, you've 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.899 obviously hired for positions on your team. Have 00:15:49.899 --> 00:15:52.879 you interviewed folks who are coming from the 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.340 major, large strategic organizations who are 00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:57.059 looking to make a change into the startup world, 00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:58.740 or you haven't necessarily come across that? 00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:05.000 I have. It wasn't truly a startup, but when I 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.100 joined a company called Regent Medical, it was 00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:12.820 very small. And we did try and hire for that. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.659 the realities of a big company versus something 00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:20.720 small and very early stage are very different. 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:22.720 Well, and that's what I want to get at because 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.039 a lot of times I think the mentality from the 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.679 hiring manager's perspective is this person is 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:29.740 coming from a lot of resources. They're probably 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:32.039 not as hands -on as they think they are. They've 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.539 got a lot of help around them. This is probably 00:16:35.539 --> 00:16:38.159 going to be too fast paced. Like all these... 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.500 but then there's other people who have made the 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:43.220 transition very successfully and wanted to. That's 00:16:43.220 --> 00:16:45.179 what I was curious to get your opinion on. Right, 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.500 and that's what I did. For me, I've always had 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:52.179 a lot of ideas and concepts, and I still do. 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:56.000 I haven't patented them yet myself, so I'll just 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.480 leave it at that. I still have a lot of that, 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:03.539 and a lot of our early patents, I was the primary. 00:17:03.769 --> 00:17:07.089 on a lot of our early patents for this. And I 00:17:07.089 --> 00:17:10.309 think there is a unique mindset when you think 00:17:10.309 --> 00:17:15.289 out there and you think novel, interesting, different. 00:17:15.349 --> 00:17:17.970 You have enough expertise to bring to the table. 00:17:18.150 --> 00:17:21.970 I brought a lot of history with this molecule, 00:17:22.049 --> 00:17:25.910 what it can and can't do. And I was actually 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:27.950 blown away. They tried to hire me for a couple 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:30.230 of years first and I kept turning them down saying, 00:17:31.009 --> 00:17:33.930 I don't think this is going to work. at this 00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:36.690 concentration and I don't think you're going 00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:40.650 to get clearance. Obviously I was wrong. I've 00:17:40.650 --> 00:17:43.970 been here a long time now. That's awesome. What 00:17:43.970 --> 00:17:46.789 was the tipping point as to when you finally 00:17:46.789 --> 00:17:50.829 decided to do it? So I'm a science brain and 00:17:50.829 --> 00:17:55.289 they finally showed me just a tiny slice of science. 00:17:56.329 --> 00:17:59.349 And I saw that bit that they really didn't have 00:17:59.349 --> 00:18:01.450 any when they first started talking to me. And 00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:07.140 I saw that and I went, Well, that's as good as 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:10.660 what I'm working with over here. I might have 00:18:10.660 --> 00:18:14.079 to be a part of that. That's awesome. There are 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.240 days I wondered about my sanity, jumping over 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:18.880 to something like this. There are days I know 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.500 my husband wondered about it. Yeah, I bet. I 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:24.460 bet. It's not for the faint of heart is the best 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:27.420 way to put it, like you said. That's right. That's 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:30.740 right. So you have to be confident in what you 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:35.579 know, confident about what you understand the 00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:38.880 healthcare business to be, I think. I think that 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.539 makes it easier. So I think somebody who comes 00:18:41.539 --> 00:18:46.700 from healthcare perhaps has that deep understanding 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:49.599 of what drives healthcare, what that's like, 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.079 as opposed to perhaps another salesperson who 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.099 was with a big company, carried one device that's 00:18:57.099 --> 00:19:03.529 in a huge portfolio of products and has Less 00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:06.190 appreciation, perhaps, of the clinical side, 00:19:06.769 --> 00:19:11.769 perhaps. So obviously, this was a big catalyst 00:19:11.769 --> 00:19:15.369 in your own career. What other milestones or 00:19:15.369 --> 00:19:17.150 what other pivotal moments can you point to where 00:19:17.150 --> 00:19:19.710 you feel like, you know what, you started to 00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:22.529 gain some confidence? Either A, you wouldn't 00:19:22.529 --> 00:19:25.049 be where you are today without making the move 00:19:25.049 --> 00:19:28.509 that you made, or B, a situation where you're 00:19:28.509 --> 00:19:29.950 like, you know what, I feel like I'm kind of 00:19:29.950 --> 00:19:34.160 coming into my own as a leader. Well, I think 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:38.119 when I started with Regent Medical, I was a clinical 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.160 nurse specialist for a region of the country. 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:44.740 And as I got into the company more, I kept saying, 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.740 you know, I have a science background. I'd really 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:51.420 like to do some research. I think we can do research 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:54.619 to support what we're talking about here and 00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:58.039 started doing research. And at that point, it 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.819 was kind of the right niche for me of that blend 00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:06.119 of research and medical affairs. And then I was 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.099 able to bring that over here. I would never, 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:11.359 I don't think, have gotten that position if I 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:16.539 had not had that dual experience. And I had been 00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:19.960 exposed a lot to regulatory and temporarily wore 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:23.359 a regulatory quality medical affairs research 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.119 hat. You can see that's way too big. But obviously 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:29.539 the company's little in most of that time. All 00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:31.599 of those things are very demanding early. So 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.880 the earlier you can fill those positions full 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:36.740 -time, I think the better off a little company 00:20:36.740 --> 00:20:40.839 is. What attracted you to medical affairs and 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:47.839 research? You still there? Yeah, no, I'm thinking. 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:56.559 Oh, okay, sorry. I love talking with clinicians. 00:20:57.899 --> 00:21:02.019 about scientific impact. That's what I do, and 00:21:02.019 --> 00:21:06.359 I spend my time teaching the team where I am 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.279 today. Here's the clinical, so what? You have 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.799 to understand the science behind this, and then 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.599 you can begin to understand what the clinicians 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.299 need, what they're looking for, how this is going 00:21:20.299 --> 00:21:24.240 to impact them. in order for you to sell the 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.059 product, you're going to have to have that same 00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:32.079 kind of relationship. And I call it, learn to 00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.819 call it consultative selling. If you can be that 00:21:34.819 --> 00:21:39.220 person who really fully understands and comprehends 00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:43.400 it from soup to nuts, then you can be more than 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:48.119 just, I am the guy from so -and -so. You become 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.569 more of a partner for your clinicians. Be they 00:21:51.569 --> 00:21:55.289 nurses or surgeons or whoever they are. Yeah. 00:21:55.589 --> 00:21:58.849 That makes a ton of sense. Yeah. What's the best 00:21:58.849 --> 00:22:00.630 leadership advice you've ever been given, do 00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:03.970 you think? I've been thinking about that question 00:22:03.970 --> 00:22:10.470 quite a bit. And I worked for a period of time 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:14.470 for several years for a servant leader. Here's 00:22:14.470 --> 00:22:17.480 what I will say. I, through my career, whether 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.500 it was as a nurse in the clinical practice arena 00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:25.599 or in industry, I know what I don't like in managers 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.500 I've worked for. I think that's a sad commentary. 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.759 I know what I don't like. But I worked for a 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.950 servant leader who brought in You know, everybody 00:22:37.950 --> 00:22:41.049 does Myers -Briggs testing and little bits of 00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:43.430 those things as life rolls on through industry 00:22:43.430 --> 00:22:47.470 or through healthcare, but who believed in integrating 00:22:47.470 --> 00:22:50.549 that in. And I think that for me was a game changer 00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:52.630 and I was actually a trainer for one of those 00:22:52.630 --> 00:23:00.460 programs. the way it can and has the potential 00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:03.859 to change teams is enormous and affect teams 00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:05.759 and the way teams work together is enormous. 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:09.440 And so I think that was the most valuable thing 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.500 that I learned. And a lot of people think it's 00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:13.579 hooey and it's a game and you take a test and 00:23:13.579 --> 00:23:16.519 whatever, but it really teaches you about people 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.519 and how they work together. And so when you're 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:23.380 trying to build a team, for me, I always like 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:28.069 to hire somebody that's better, smarter, deeper, 00:23:28.069 --> 00:23:30.710 different background than me. For me, a team 00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:33.089 is a puzzle, and you're putting together a puzzle 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:35.950 of those people with different experiences. I 00:23:35.950 --> 00:23:37.750 don't want everybody who's had the same thing, 00:23:37.869 --> 00:23:40.529 but different experiences who all bring something 00:23:40.529 --> 00:23:45.230 unique to the table that makes the team as a 00:23:45.230 --> 00:23:48.589 whole better than any one person. Does that make 00:23:48.589 --> 00:23:50.950 sense to you? Yeah, I love that. How do you vet 00:23:50.950 --> 00:23:52.769 that out? How do you start to put the pieces 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:55.920 together? on that, not necessarily just from 00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:01.460 a technical perspective. I think it's from really 00:24:01.460 --> 00:24:03.619 trying to get to know somebody in an interview, 00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:08.539 and that's not necessarily one interview. For 00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:12.819 me, in the roles that I was hiring for at the 00:24:12.819 --> 00:24:16.579 time that that went on, for example, and this 00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:19.900 is nothing unique, I don't think, but I would 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:23.299 ask them to do an exercise, whatever that is. 00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:27.109 relevant to the role. And I would say, this is 00:24:27.109 --> 00:24:29.849 what I want you to do. I wouldn't tell them what 00:24:29.849 --> 00:24:32.910 to put in it, how to find it, how to put it together. 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:35.750 They just had the next interview come and present 00:24:35.750 --> 00:24:40.210 that to me. And that tells me a lot about how 00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:42.509 a person works, whether or not they reached out 00:24:42.509 --> 00:24:45.309 to anybody else I'd introduced them to and used 00:24:45.309 --> 00:24:49.009 resources, whether or not they went to somebody 00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:51.329 and maybe where they are and asked questions. 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.900 I'm looking for those people who aren't afraid 00:24:55.900 --> 00:25:01.160 to take a step. Certainly, I look for people 00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.680 who are hungry, and that's not just a sales term. 00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:07.339 I want somebody who's interested, eager, wants 00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:13.519 to be a part, is going to go out and reach. I 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.240 think grace is really important when you're hiring 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.519 people like that. I think that as a leader and 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.920 a manager, grace is really important because 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.619 they might make a misstep and I think that needs 00:25:26.619 --> 00:25:30.380 to be okay. Everybody makes mistakes. I actually 00:25:30.380 --> 00:25:32.980 feel like if we don't make mistakes, we're not 00:25:32.980 --> 00:25:37.940 growing, producing, changing, trying. I think 00:25:37.940 --> 00:25:40.640 all of those things are integral to being a human 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.880 being. We all make mistakes. We learn from them. 00:25:42.980 --> 00:25:45.720 It changes who we are. I think the same thing 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:49.740 is true in roles. 100%. I think it has to be 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.119 okay to say, let's not do that again. We learned 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.700 this about it. This is good. What would you do 00:25:55.700 --> 00:26:00.029 differently? And move on from there. And that's 00:26:00.029 --> 00:26:01.609 a great transition to the last question I want 00:26:01.609 --> 00:26:04.049 to ask you. But before I get to it, I love what 00:26:04.049 --> 00:26:05.710 you said about the project piece. We call it 00:26:05.710 --> 00:26:08.349 the test drive. In essence, putting your candidates 00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:11.450 in a real life situation and seeing how they 00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:15.390 perform to the best of the project lets them. 00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:16.950 So I think that's awesome. And you're right. 00:26:17.089 --> 00:26:19.190 You learned a lot about, one, how much effort 00:26:19.190 --> 00:26:22.130 is somebody putting in? Two, how good is the 00:26:22.130 --> 00:26:24.329 quality of the product that they're putting out? 00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:27.599 Three, how are they thinking? And even if it 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.839 wasn't an answer that you were going to come 00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.019 up with, hey, maybe something you didn't think 00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:32.619 about that's actually beneficial is like, wow, 00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.519 this person actually has a really creative side 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.859 that I wasn't even aware of, right? Right. Absolutely. 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:41.299 And I like that in the team where people are 00:26:41.299 --> 00:26:45.480 not afraid to throw all the ideas out there. 00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:50.859 I'm in favor of, and people will laugh, who know 00:26:50.859 --> 00:26:54.160 me well. Everybody gets sticky notes. I ask you 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.240 a question. You have a few minutes to write as 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.500 many ideas as you can. You put them all up, and 00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:00.559 you look at all of them, and you throw some away, 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:04.099 and you take those, and you go where you go from 00:27:04.099 --> 00:27:08.079 there. Because it's not just about a leader's 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:12.059 ideas. It's about the ideas of the whole. In 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:16.299 my book, that's my preferred. Absolutely. Approaching 00:27:16.299 --> 00:27:18.950 things like that. You mentioned about we're all 00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:20.910 human, we make mistakes, we learn from them, 00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:23.789 it changes us. What's some of the hardest lessons 00:27:23.789 --> 00:27:27.690 that you learned the hard way, or a lesson for 00:27:27.690 --> 00:27:37.670 that matter? Oh, I could think of early, really 00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:45.009 early in my experience lesson that was painful, 00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:54.079 but I... I actually, let's see, I reported a 00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.779 clinician for doing something that should never 00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:00.059 have happened, and I would go to my deathbed 00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:04.799 with that. And I took a beating as just a staff 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:08.019 nurse when I did that because no one was listening. 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:11.400 My boss wasn't listening, so I bumped it up one 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.079 level. So, you know, it's the old adage of not 00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:19.079 going over somebody's head or if you're going 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:23.119 to taking that calculated risk. And I think life 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.160 is a series of calculated risks sometimes. And 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:28.539 in this particular case, you would have done 00:28:28.539 --> 00:28:31.579 it again, right? I would do the same thing today. 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:34.660 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't try to go over 00:28:34.660 --> 00:28:35.680 somebody's head. I'm relieved to say I hadn't 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.099 thought about it, but I'm relieved to say I would 00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.759 still do the same thing. Yeah. And you didn't 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:42.640 try to go over somebody's head on purpose. You 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:44.740 tried to involve them and it fell on deaf ears, 00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:48.680 it sounds like. Correct. You took a lot of guts 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:54.319 on your part. I think that's the hardest lesson 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.339 that I've ever learned. And I think the other 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:59.059 tough thing for a leader is to let people make 00:28:59.059 --> 00:29:03.859 mistakes. And sometimes, you know, they don't 00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:06.099 always believe in themselves. If you can come 00:29:06.099 --> 00:29:10.759 along and believe in them, I think that's a big 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:17.619 part of being a leader. It's that grace of trust 00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:20.759 and being authentic and coming alongside people, 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.819 I think that's a really important thing. 100%. 00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:28.200 I can't thank you for being enough and to be 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.119 here and share all these years of wisdom. What's 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.119 going on at Iramax right now? What are you most 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:39.519 excited about? Well, the acquisition has been 00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.519 a journey and it... We are very excited about 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.000 new potentials going forward. And I think our 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.220 global reach is, you know, we hope our global 00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:55.299 reach will expand. And I think that there will 00:29:55.299 --> 00:30:00.920 be more innovation and more ideas and more. I 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.099 think that this is going to be a great growth 00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.779 opportunity. Amazing stuff. Well, if it's okay 00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:09.250 with you, what we'll do is we'll put a link To 00:30:09.250 --> 00:30:11.670 your LinkedIn profile and a link to Eramax and 00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:14.730 encourage anybody who has deeper further interest 00:30:14.730 --> 00:30:18.730 to encourage them to reach out Sounds fine All 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:20.250 right. Thank you so much for being here Carolyn 00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:24.109 really do appreciate it. Thank you so much Thanks 00:30:24.109 --> 00:30:27.569 for listening to the medtech talent lab podcast 00:30:27.569 --> 00:30:31.690 for more content rich episodes log on to the 00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:35.200 Anthony Michael group comm or subscribe to the 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:38.099 show on your favorite podcast platform.