Welcome to the MedTech Talent Lab, the number
one catalyst for advancing careers and building
high -performance teams. Sponsored by the Anthony
Michael Group, helping companies secure in -demand
talent in regulatory affairs, quality, clinical,
engineering, R &D, and other areas for medical
device, digital health, diagnostics, and other
organizations across the US life sciences sector.
Here's your host, Mitch Robbins. All right, welcome
back to another episode here on the MedTech Talent
Lab podcast. I am your host, Mitch Robbins. managing
director and founder at the Anthony Michael Group,
where we build companies and careers across the
industry. And I am proud to host today, Miss
Carolyn Twomey, excuse me, who is the global
vice president of medical affairs and research
at Iramax Corporation. Carolyn has spent the
better part of the last 12 years leading medical
affairs and research at the organization. And
prior to that, as a nurse by trade, she had a
storied career in the hospital world. having
worked as an OR nurse, as a director of cardiac
cath labs, and eventually as the global head
of clinical services for Molnlica Healthcare.
For those unfamiliar with Iramax, the company
is a wholly owned subsidiary of Innovation Technologies
and is a pioneer in wound irrigation, providing
an alternative method to traditional irrigation
with its flagship patented product, Iricep. Without
further ado, Carolyn, welcome to the show. Thank
you. Thank you. I'm so glad that you're here.
And a couple things. How did I do pronouncing
monglika? You did a great job. I tried my best
because that is a mouthful. But, you know, we
were speaking up just offline for a minute or
two before we got started here. And you told
me something that kind of rocked my world a little
bit, which is you are a cancer survivor and you're
a cancer survivor since I think 2008 is what
you said, is that right? That's right. Unreal.
Well, I'm so glad that you're here with us today.
And I'm interested to learn your backstory for
our audience. And we're going to get into a variety
of different things. But one thing we absolutely
do share is the hospital world. So I used to
do hospital leadership recruiting for years prior
to starting the Anthony Michael Group. fairly
familiar with the cardiac cath lab and the OR
and all that stuff, because we used to place
a variety of nursing leaders in different parts
of the country. But we're here to talk about
you. And in order to talk about kind of where
you're at today, I always think it's fun to go
back in time to your formative years and really
kind of understand the foundation. So with that,
where'd you grow up? What was home life like?
Well, I grew up all over the country. We moved
a lot when I was younger and living with my my
parents So we lived all over the country and
even in Guadalajara, Mexico For a period of time.
So a lot of a lot of opportunities to meet different
people move Sort of reset yourself start over
again It was a novel experience I have now lived
in a place for many, many years. When I moved
where I am today, I'd never lived anywhere more
than five years. Wow. Yeah. Was it your mom or
your dad's job that took you different places,
or what was it? My dad's job. Do you have siblings?
I had a sister who died of a brain tumor. Oh,
wow. Yep. Both of you had cancer. Unbelievable.
And neither of those cancers run in our family
to our knowledge. Unreal. Was she older or younger
than you? Younger. Unbelievable. Yeah. Wow. How
long ago was that? We had cancer at the same
time. Are you serious? She was diagnosed first.
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry to hear that. Yeah.
No, it was a difficult couple of years. I couldn't
have made it without my husband and he drove
her. Every day to treatment. Unreal. Yeah. Well,
as you were growing up, you were in different
places throughout your childhood. What held your
interest over those years? Well, I was interested
in so many things. As a young person, I was first
and foremost very involved in music. I thought
that was going to be my career. As a matter of
fact, I applied to music school universities
or programs even in my junior and senior year
of high school. I woke up in May of my senior
year and went, I don't want to sit in little
practice rooms the rest of my life. I really
wanted to be a performance musician. And I realized
that I needed people around me a lot. So I like
working as part of a team. I like all of those
things. And you don't get that as a performing
musician typically. We have the music thing in
common. I did it professionally for a period
of time as well. But question, what's your instrument?
Well, they told me to be performance. I had to
play two. So I, piano was my primary, but I sat
first chair cello for many, many, many years.
Okay. And I still love it. It still sits under
my piano here at home. So they always say that
math and science are connected as far as the
piece of your brain. How did you end up going
down the road of becoming a nurse? Cause you're
a nurse by trade and kind of getting into that
world. I started as a biology major because after
figuring out that I really didn't want to do
performance music, that for me it was a passion
and something I did for the joy of it and not
my job. opportunity and the pleasure of meeting
several renowned pianists. And for them, it had
become a job. They didn't have family that sang
around the piano while you prayed Christmas music
or whatever that was. It was really a job and
that was a big part of that decision. So I went
into science. It was my next interest. And I
went into biology first and then decided to go
into nursing. Wow. I'm thinking about what you
were saying as far, so you were a senior in high
school and you decided, hey, this is not the
road I wanna go, I wanna keep it as a hobby.
Do you still play today? I do. I play at home.
Yeah, I don't play, I used to play for weddings
and things. I don't have that time anymore. Yeah,
I hear that. Believe me, I hear that. That's
good though that you keep up with it as a hobby
and as a passion. Oh, I love it. It's part of
who I am. So you worked for many, many years.
Like I said, you did OR nursing. You worked in
the cath lab. I knew that you taught at a medical
college, if I'm not mistaken, right? Medical
College of Virginia. Yeah. How did you end up
on the manufacturing side of this? Oh, I call
it going to the dark side. That's what they say
about recruiting. Probably do, yeah. I was sitting
in an OR... or late start morning listening to
somebody come speak from a company and she said
something as a part of her talk and I didn't
believe her. I was the OR educator at the time
and I got up in the middle of her talk and I
went and pulled a pair of sterile gloves and
I had never read the package and she had said
there's a caution or warning statement on the
front of it from the FDA that you had to wash
your gloves before you use them. I didn't believe
her and it was there. And I went and sat back
down and then I started a project for my hospital.
This was during the latex allergy era and all
of the challenges there. And I went to my director
of nursing and I said, we need to have a committee.
And I started a committee and it was very effective.
She asked me if I would broaden it out for the
corporate hospital group. in the state, which
I did. And when that happened and I was holding
bigger meetings, a company who was very involved
in latex allergy asked if I would come and be
a part of, at the time, their clinical services
team. And I'd always kind of wondered about doing
that. And I came home and talked to my husband
and said, let's try it for a year. And that was
1997. Wow. Yeah. And that was the kind of the
pivotal moment at that point. It was. It was.
And then when you got into this, though, you
had already been the global head of clinical
services for the health care system at the time,
right? No. No, no. I'd been a director in different
divisions. I'd been, you know, depending on where
I worked at the Medical College of Wisconsin
or here in Virginia, I'd been directors of departments,
but not a global division. Okay. So one of the
things I want to get your insights on is the
idea of working at startups because obviously
you have that experience and I want to hear it
from you. I want the audience to hear it from
you because you've lived it. Who is startup life
for? Who is it not for? Well, it's certainly
not for the faint of heart. It is not for one
who wants to work a 40 -hour week. If you want
to wear a lot of hats, and when you're a young
company and you're five or six employees and
you haven't really even gone to market fully
yet, and you're trying to build evidence to support
a product or build a group of clinical people
who you can talk to about that. It takes a person
who's willing to go and do and do different things,
take on different initiatives. And you're very
single -minded in those days. How so? I did not
have time for a lot of things like music or other
initiatives. I had a young daughter. Any extra
energy I had went to that. Went to her and time
with her and my family. But that's about it.
It is a very demanding time. It's a very exciting
time. It's a roller coaster in so many ways.
It's truly not for the faint of heart than to
sit at a table and go, we don't have enough money
for payroll and this and this and this and look
at it very soberly and go, what are we going
to do next? Yeah, it's not for the faint of heart,
but it is. I love it. I love doing it. It is
fun. It's challenging. You had the opportunity
to be innovative and think in very different
ways. I worked for a very big company. Molnica
is a very big global company. And this is just
so qualitatively different when we were a startup.
We were actually acquired by a company this year,
or the end of last year. So it has been an adventure
from full stop and now it's a different adventure
and it's very fun. That's awesome. And so that's
exactly the plan was gonna make is I think that
people who? Haven't had the experience of working
in a startup before See the The golden nuggets
so to speak they see friends who have gone through
successful exits and Very wealthy and they came
out at the other end You know with their pockets
a lot fuller than they went into it and then
those people go on and do it again perhaps again,
but so many of these don't make it to that funding
or whatever the challenges are. And a lot of
times people are left, you know, holding an empty
bag, but all their blood, sweat and tears is
put into it. So obviously it's a calculated risk.
And I think people obviously need to understand
that going into it, but. Well, you could go into
it. You could build a company. And I think we
were on the cusp of this at one point in time.
There's so many stages you go through, but they
could just build out the company and run it as
a company. And then your options that you have
and you're holding have no value. So I mean,
there are a lot of ways there could potentially
not be that golden nugget you're talking about.
Do you have any suggestions as to how people
vet out what they're getting into when they're
interviewing, if they decide to interview with
some startups? For me, it has to be a real game
changer. It can't be something that's me too.
It has to be something that is novel, never been
tried before. Novel not being the regulatory
word, but novel to a clinician. a game changer
for a clinician. And for me, it's very relatable
to clinical practice, something that brings huge
clinical benefit to those you're trying to bring
it to. If you're just trying to give them a little
incremental something, I think it would be very
hard. In my opinion, it would be hard. But to
have something truly novel. and something that
is a game changer for, in my case, surgeons and
their outcomes. And of course, that means patients,
and they still remain very important to me, have
better outcomes than all of those things are
going to drive interest adoption. Because if
you can't find early adopters, it's a very difficult
road. You know, in those very early years when
you're still building science and you're still
building data, no, you don't have a randomized
control clinical trial and whatever those other
components are that people are looking for. You
don't have referral hospitals who are going to
stand up and say, yeah, we use it and we love
it. Because you're selling to one surgeon at
a time at that point in the early days. Right.
Let me ask you this. On the flip side, you've
obviously hired for positions on your team. Have
you interviewed folks who are coming from the
major, large strategic organizations who are
looking to make a change into the startup world,
or you haven't necessarily come across that?
I have. It wasn't truly a startup, but when I
joined a company called Regent Medical, it was
very small. And we did try and hire for that.
the realities of a big company versus something
small and very early stage are very different.
Well, and that's what I want to get at because
a lot of times I think the mentality from the
hiring manager's perspective is this person is
coming from a lot of resources. They're probably
not as hands -on as they think they are. They've
got a lot of help around them. This is probably
going to be too fast paced. Like all these...
but then there's other people who have made the
transition very successfully and wanted to. That's
what I was curious to get your opinion on. Right,
and that's what I did. For me, I've always had
a lot of ideas and concepts, and I still do.
I haven't patented them yet myself, so I'll just
leave it at that. I still have a lot of that,
and a lot of our early patents, I was the primary.
on a lot of our early patents for this. And I
think there is a unique mindset when you think
out there and you think novel, interesting, different.
You have enough expertise to bring to the table.
I brought a lot of history with this molecule,
what it can and can't do. And I was actually
blown away. They tried to hire me for a couple
of years first and I kept turning them down saying,
I don't think this is going to work. at this
concentration and I don't think you're going
to get clearance. Obviously I was wrong. I've
been here a long time now. That's awesome. What
was the tipping point as to when you finally
decided to do it? So I'm a science brain and
they finally showed me just a tiny slice of science.
And I saw that bit that they really didn't have
any when they first started talking to me. And
I saw that and I went, Well, that's as good as
what I'm working with over here. I might have
to be a part of that. That's awesome. There are
days I wondered about my sanity, jumping over
to something like this. There are days I know
my husband wondered about it. Yeah, I bet. I
bet. It's not for the faint of heart is the best
way to put it, like you said. That's right. That's
right. So you have to be confident in what you
know, confident about what you understand the
healthcare business to be, I think. I think that
makes it easier. So I think somebody who comes
from healthcare perhaps has that deep understanding
of what drives healthcare, what that's like,
as opposed to perhaps another salesperson who
was with a big company, carried one device that's
in a huge portfolio of products and has Less
appreciation, perhaps, of the clinical side,
perhaps. So obviously, this was a big catalyst
in your own career. What other milestones or
what other pivotal moments can you point to where
you feel like, you know what, you started to
gain some confidence? Either A, you wouldn't
be where you are today without making the move
that you made, or B, a situation where you're
like, you know what, I feel like I'm kind of
coming into my own as a leader. Well, I think
when I started with Regent Medical, I was a clinical
nurse specialist for a region of the country.
And as I got into the company more, I kept saying,
you know, I have a science background. I'd really
like to do some research. I think we can do research
to support what we're talking about here and
started doing research. And at that point, it
was kind of the right niche for me of that blend
of research and medical affairs. And then I was
able to bring that over here. I would never,
I don't think, have gotten that position if I
had not had that dual experience. And I had been
exposed a lot to regulatory and temporarily wore
a regulatory quality medical affairs research
hat. You can see that's way too big. But obviously
the company's little in most of that time. All
of those things are very demanding early. So
the earlier you can fill those positions full
-time, I think the better off a little company
is. What attracted you to medical affairs and
research? You still there? Yeah, no, I'm thinking.
Oh, okay, sorry. I love talking with clinicians.
about scientific impact. That's what I do, and
I spend my time teaching the team where I am
today. Here's the clinical, so what? You have
to understand the science behind this, and then
you can begin to understand what the clinicians
need, what they're looking for, how this is going
to impact them. in order for you to sell the
product, you're going to have to have that same
kind of relationship. And I call it, learn to
call it consultative selling. If you can be that
person who really fully understands and comprehends
it from soup to nuts, then you can be more than
just, I am the guy from so -and -so. You become
more of a partner for your clinicians. Be they
nurses or surgeons or whoever they are. Yeah.
That makes a ton of sense. Yeah. What's the best
leadership advice you've ever been given, do
you think? I've been thinking about that question
quite a bit. And I worked for a period of time
for several years for a servant leader. Here's
what I will say. I, through my career, whether
it was as a nurse in the clinical practice arena
or in industry, I know what I don't like in managers
I've worked for. I think that's a sad commentary.
I know what I don't like. But I worked for a
servant leader who brought in You know, everybody
does Myers -Briggs testing and little bits of
those things as life rolls on through industry
or through healthcare, but who believed in integrating
that in. And I think that for me was a game changer
and I was actually a trainer for one of those
programs. the way it can and has the potential
to change teams is enormous and affect teams
and the way teams work together is enormous.
And so I think that was the most valuable thing
that I learned. And a lot of people think it's
hooey and it's a game and you take a test and
whatever, but it really teaches you about people
and how they work together. And so when you're
trying to build a team, for me, I always like
to hire somebody that's better, smarter, deeper,
different background than me. For me, a team
is a puzzle, and you're putting together a puzzle
of those people with different experiences. I
don't want everybody who's had the same thing,
but different experiences who all bring something
unique to the table that makes the team as a
whole better than any one person. Does that make
sense to you? Yeah, I love that. How do you vet
that out? How do you start to put the pieces
together? on that, not necessarily just from
a technical perspective. I think it's from really
trying to get to know somebody in an interview,
and that's not necessarily one interview. For
me, in the roles that I was hiring for at the
time that that went on, for example, and this
is nothing unique, I don't think, but I would
ask them to do an exercise, whatever that is.
relevant to the role. And I would say, this is
what I want you to do. I wouldn't tell them what
to put in it, how to find it, how to put it together.
They just had the next interview come and present
that to me. And that tells me a lot about how
a person works, whether or not they reached out
to anybody else I'd introduced them to and used
resources, whether or not they went to somebody
and maybe where they are and asked questions.
I'm looking for those people who aren't afraid
to take a step. Certainly, I look for people
who are hungry, and that's not just a sales term.
I want somebody who's interested, eager, wants
to be a part, is going to go out and reach. I
think grace is really important when you're hiring
people like that. I think that as a leader and
a manager, grace is really important because
they might make a misstep and I think that needs
to be okay. Everybody makes mistakes. I actually
feel like if we don't make mistakes, we're not
growing, producing, changing, trying. I think
all of those things are integral to being a human
being. We all make mistakes. We learn from them.
It changes who we are. I think the same thing
is true in roles. 100%. I think it has to be
okay to say, let's not do that again. We learned
this about it. This is good. What would you do
differently? And move on from there. And that's
a great transition to the last question I want
to ask you. But before I get to it, I love what
you said about the project piece. We call it
the test drive. In essence, putting your candidates
in a real life situation and seeing how they
perform to the best of the project lets them.
So I think that's awesome. And you're right.
You learned a lot about, one, how much effort
is somebody putting in? Two, how good is the
quality of the product that they're putting out?
Three, how are they thinking? And even if it
wasn't an answer that you were going to come
up with, hey, maybe something you didn't think
about that's actually beneficial is like, wow,
this person actually has a really creative side
that I wasn't even aware of, right? Right. Absolutely.
And I like that in the team where people are
not afraid to throw all the ideas out there.
I'm in favor of, and people will laugh, who know
me well. Everybody gets sticky notes. I ask you
a question. You have a few minutes to write as
many ideas as you can. You put them all up, and
you look at all of them, and you throw some away,
and you take those, and you go where you go from
there. Because it's not just about a leader's
ideas. It's about the ideas of the whole. In
my book, that's my preferred. Absolutely. Approaching
things like that. You mentioned about we're all
human, we make mistakes, we learn from them,
it changes us. What's some of the hardest lessons
that you learned the hard way, or a lesson for
that matter? Oh, I could think of early, really
early in my experience lesson that was painful,
but I... I actually, let's see, I reported a
clinician for doing something that should never
have happened, and I would go to my deathbed
with that. And I took a beating as just a staff
nurse when I did that because no one was listening.
My boss wasn't listening, so I bumped it up one
level. So, you know, it's the old adage of not
going over somebody's head or if you're going
to taking that calculated risk. And I think life
is a series of calculated risks sometimes. And
in this particular case, you would have done
it again, right? I would do the same thing today.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't try to go over
somebody's head. I'm relieved to say I hadn't
thought about it, but I'm relieved to say I would
still do the same thing. Yeah. And you didn't
try to go over somebody's head on purpose. You
tried to involve them and it fell on deaf ears,
it sounds like. Correct. You took a lot of guts
on your part. I think that's the hardest lesson
that I've ever learned. And I think the other
tough thing for a leader is to let people make
mistakes. And sometimes, you know, they don't
always believe in themselves. If you can come
along and believe in them, I think that's a big
part of being a leader. It's that grace of trust
and being authentic and coming alongside people,
I think that's a really important thing. 100%.
I can't thank you for being enough and to be
here and share all these years of wisdom. What's
going on at Iramax right now? What are you most
excited about? Well, the acquisition has been
a journey and it... We are very excited about
new potentials going forward. And I think our
global reach is, you know, we hope our global
reach will expand. And I think that there will
be more innovation and more ideas and more. I
think that this is going to be a great growth
opportunity. Amazing stuff. Well, if it's okay
with you, what we'll do is we'll put a link To
your LinkedIn profile and a link to Eramax and
encourage anybody who has deeper further interest
to encourage them to reach out Sounds fine All
right. Thank you so much for being here Carolyn
really do appreciate it. Thank you so much Thanks
for listening to the medtech talent lab podcast
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