Hello everyone, welcome to the Polarize Podcast.
I'm your host, James.
Welcome to the show about polarizing movies, the movies that audiences and critics disagree
on the most according to Round Tomatoes.
Sometimes the audiences love it and the critics hate it or vice versa.
It's an underworld series, folks.
We are neck deep in the battle of the ages.
We're starting from the beginning here with Underworld Rise of the Lycans.
Let's see those numbers that bring us here in the first place.
It is a 30 percent percentile by the critics.
It is a 63 percent by the audience.
Something about myself and my relation to this movie.
This was my foyer into the underworld franchise back in 2009.
I was thinking, hey, I can go see R rated movies.
I am 19 years old.
I'm going to go with my buddy Jason to the underworld rise of the Lycans.
And I was like, I haven't seen any other ones.
Is that OK?
He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine because it's the beginning and it's its
own story.
And he was right.
I had a pretty good time.
I remember thinking like, it's so dark and wow, there's a lot of practical effects with
these werewolves.
And at the time, I don't think I was cultured enough to understand how cool that was.
I'm like, this looks kind of silly and stupid.
And now I'm like, this is awesome because this is a change in the in the reigns of directors
as well.
The director of this movie is the guy who worked on the creature effects in the first
couple.
So we get a lot of that.
And before I go any further with any of this fun stuff that I'm throwing your way about
my life in relation to the underworld franchise, which is the only way I think of it now, let
me bring in my best buddy, co-host with the co-most, the great.
Are we doing everybody's welcome?
What's going on, Brandon?
I'm chilling, man.
It's a cozy morning.
Yeah, we're doing a cozy PJ morning record.
Yeah, we're doing a PJ morning, PJ Harvey record.
Oh my God.
Don't tempt me.
Oh yeah, right.
She's probably polarizing in her own way, but also critically acclaimed.
You just said it.
You know, it's true.
God, that's, I mean, speaking of which, yeah, we haven't done a concert report in a while.
That PJ Harvey show that I went to was awesome.
It was great.
Yeah.
The production was fantastic.
Yeah, it was.
It was interesting, like when you, what was that?
What was the stage set up like?
Well, when we got there, I heard one of the people working there like, yeah, she requested
that they didn't have any music playing as you come in and there's no opener at all either.
So we come into the Greek theater in here in Los Angeles, Los Angeles, and there's no
music and it's just, we're just hanging out.
They had nice, nice warm babies because it was cold, but I got a Jameson ginger ale and
the guy said he accidentally charged me for a single, even though I got a double.
He's like, so make sure you tip me.
Well, I was like, yeah, it's okay.
I was going to, I did a, or I think, yeah, I think that's what he said.
A single and said, whatever.
And then we sit down and she plays the whole new album front to back at right at the beginning.
And it was, it was pretty minimalistic, but she's doing a lot of interesting movements
and it's very much, it's very artistic and it's very much like a concept.
I feel like that she's trying to get out there with a new album and push cause she had, it's
been a while since she had a new album and I do love that new album.
So that was really great to just hear it all front to back.
Like I've been doing a lot since it came out.
And then there was like a little break and she went away and John parish did a little
song with him and the boys.
And then she did a like a little costume change, came back and did a lot of her other big hits
namely like letting wood shake is where she started, but then she went through all the
other, all the other stuff.
And I loved it.
It was fantastic.
But let me say one of my favorite things, I don't know if I've mentioned this before,
but my favorite things of concerts lately is either the talk from people in the bathroom
that are not really so much enjoying the show or really not big fans of it or on the way
out people being very critical.
Cause I feel like I've been experiencing that a lot lately when I go to shows and this one
was these guys just like in the bathroom when I, when I take a quick trip, I'm trying, I'm
rushing you and I want to get back, but I'm also probably quite the show to do that.
See, but Hey, no, no, no judgment.
But these guys were not that they were just, it's just like, man, she's got to lighten
up a bit.
So there's like, Oh, she's going to put everyone to sleep.
I was like, motherfucker, like, why are you here?
You hear that?
It takes a lot to come out to a show.
This is not just like a casual thing to go out to Greek theater, see PJ Harvey.
It's like, as you know, their friends are going to music.
And there was a point to where there was a, there's some pros sitting behind me and it's
like very quiet.
There's a very quiet song later on and it's, it's, it's about kind of upsetting stuff.
And but it's very beautifully sung and everyone's just like wrapped in attention, quiet.
And it kind of like slows down for a little, you know, quieter part of the song and just
hear this guy like, so I was like the other day, just telling, like, just having a full
on loud conversation and everyone, like, I could feel all the energy around us, like
all kind of look back, like, what the hell?
And he is just like, starts being like sarcastically shushing going like, Oh, oh, shh, oh, shh.
And for the rest of the song, he was like, everyone shh, like facetiously.
I'm like, mother, are you in second grade right now?
You got shushed and now you're like, Oh, we're going to be shushed.
Oh, everybody.
Sorry.
And I walk into the show, I heard another person talking to me like, Oh man, that guy
was so annoying.
That song was beautiful about all this, you know, intense stuff.
And he's just like, and, and then my, my other two ones was that happened at Casey Musgraves
as well.
When I saw her, yeah, it was some bros in the bathroom as well.
Just like, man, yeah, she's got to liven up a bit, put, put people to sleep.
And so she was the same thing.
I'm like, guys, guys, why are you here?
Like looking to fucking rage at, you know, this, I don't know, soft folk country pop
sort of case.
And that show was amazing as well.
And then cat power as well.
When I saw a cat, I've been on a spree when she did the Bob Dylan covers, she was having
some like audio issues with the monitor, but she sounded great, but she was having some,
some issues and walking down to there, you could tell people were like, yeah, I don't
know what her do.
But she was having, I was like, God, she's just having some sound problems and she worked
it out beautifully.
And it was such an amazing show, but that's my new favorite thing that I try to clock
at shows on for concert watch this week on a polarized pod is those people that go all
the way out to a concert and hate it and criticize the hell out of it.
I know there can be bad shows, but it's like, why are you, you know, what kind of music
this is, right?
Totally.
You know, I feel like I've felt that similarly in the way that people talk about festivals,
especially Coachella, where people, where when there are bands that are more like rock,
even just like, I would honestly like rockish more has a tendency to have slower songs,
maybe some something contemplative, you know, and people just not like not knowing those
bands, not caring with their association with music and with with music and with festivals
is just to go party at.
Right.
And so so there's there's just been this whole entire generation that you and me are a part
of that's like most of my concerts are festivals.
And at festivals, it's all about like going and having fun and partying.
And then at a particular time in the day, it will add when you get to nighttime, everybody
wants dance music.
I know it's interesting to see at Coachella where they're like really interesting and
cool people playing music and they're very like if they were doing their own like they're
on their own tour already, that's why they're there.
But like those are probably filling up pretty well.
But at Coachella, it's like, I don't know.
Yeah, they're getting like half as many people as they probably do get on a regular occasion
because everybody's at, you know, the Sahara tent or the Yuma tent.
And everybody's just getting fucked up and partying.
And yeah, it's unsurprising to me.
It's interesting to hear that you're picking up on it, too, because, yeah, I feel that
as well as like the consumption of music is mainly around like it being at parties and
partying, too, which I love.
You know, I know it sounds critical, but like, if anything, I'm just wrestling with that
idea because I face those thoughts as well, you know, where I'm like, oh, you know, I
want to have a really good time.
You know, I love music.
I love being surrounded in music and that, you know, all of it is like having a good
time.
But yeah, it's funny to think about being.
Yeah.
Nonetheless, in your situation of people, yeah, like really having a conversation at
that person's show, because I'm really talking about festivals and just, you know, that.
But at that show and being like, man, this is so slow and boring.
It's like, I guess it really does, Rika, just like, oh, all our friends are going to this
thing.
We should get tickets or maybe they're like a partner of somebody that really enjoys them.
But it's like, yeah, that it's it's funny to me.
And then like, oh, that was the other one I heard that was like multiple at the P.J.
Harvey show.
And it was just a lot of dudes.
And there's one guy was the funniest thing.
He's like, man, that just reminded me of how great you two was live, man.
I just I wish I was at a U2 show.
It's like, what are you doing here?
Like go see you, go see you, too.
I don't know what to tell you, man.
He's always I just want to go back to the sphere and see you, too.
These other great all these other great shows that I'm actually into.
I'm going to hold against this person that's doing their own thing.
But yeah, I don't know.
Don't do that, people.
Hey, PSA, don't do that.
I was outwardly laughing at him like as we were walking out.
Like when I looked at each other, just like, oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
It's like you can definitely have criticisms of a show or you can be like, oh, that was
they weren't very good tonight.
And I've yeah, I've seen them before.
And it's like it was.
Oh, so the interesting conversations.
Yeah.
A little more subtle or nuance or something rather than just like, I'm bored.
Yeah, I just want to.
Yeah.
And the festival thing makes a lot more sense.
Like you're there to be at the festival and my last experience at Coachella.
And I go to other festivals as well.
But I think I've kind of shied away from doing it as much as I as I did in the past because
of partly for that reason of just knowing that a little bit more so it still happens,
but a little bit more so people are really all there for the music and for that person.
And you get the full experience of that set.
Yeah, totally.
But yeah, to cover all your all your bases.
Have a great time and see a whole bunch of different music and have all your friends
at like, yeah, festivals cover so much of what you want.
And it's very much choose your own adventure and you can make it make it what you want
it to be.
So absolutely.
Yeah, very fun time.
Yeah, we're we're not we're not against fun here.
Before before we transition into the movie, I question I've been holding on.
I wanted to ask you is what is the what is the concept of the new P.J.
Harvey record?
I know that is that is a very good question because I can't say I fully understand it.
It's I understand the energy and what type of music it is, but I can't say that I've
really dissected the lyrics enough to give you a straight answer on that.
But it just sounds like she has a way with like kind of her latter half of her career
in her music is it feels like someone telling you an old folk tale from like old timey,
old timey like English storytelling in like a very haunting sort of folksy sort of way
as opposed to like her earlier stuff was much more.
She's kind of had all sorts of different versions of her and concepts and areas.
And even as I said that, you know, as her trying to present a concept, I was like, yeah,
but I guess I don't really fully understand what that is trying to say.
But it definitely has a continuous sort of theme and type of sound that is separate from
her past stuff.
And she is one of those artists that for me, I came in a little later with the Letting
Lynn Shake album, which is much later in her career.
And I've had to go back and realize how monumental all her other stuff was.
But I kind of enjoy the latter half of her career a little bit more with those kind of
like Letting Lynn Shake is is very conceptual as well.
But when I and it is one of those albums, as with the new one, where you kind of just
listen to it all the way through, it's hard to pick out certain songs.
Yeah, totally.
Absolutely fair.
But yeah, no, you got me.
I don't I don't really know for sure what the defined concept is, just that it feels
like it's she's really trying trying to do something specific in her mind and present
people with a new idea that conceptually, when I look at it on stage and everything
was a lot of interpretive, interpretational dancing that she was doing.
And you know, just, you know, very like serious and open, like wide open eyes and almost like
kabuki kabuki form of like, interpretal, interpretational dancing as it's happening.
So as for me not understanding it, it's just like I know there's a concept of totally going
on in her moving to different parts of the stage and the blocking of it all.
And, you know, being on different instruments and like there's a point where the light was
shooting up at all of the band members so that on the very back of the stage, you could
see all their shadows in a really cool way.
So it's like a shadow play of like these figures moving across.
And she was doing a lot of cool stuff like to create the shadows.
But yeah, I apologize.
I don't have the clear answer.
I encourage everyone to check out that album and arrive at your own conclusion.
And I think that's something that I, yeah, I wish I was better about honing in on lyrics
within me because it is such like a, I love this.
Yeah.
The sonic energy of all the, of all the sounds and the vocals a lot of times can just be
another instrument on top of all of that.
So but it is, yeah, a little slower, definitely.
So those guys are just like, wow, I was, I wanted to, you know, maybe that first half
of the show kind of caught some people by surprise when they wanted to just hear her
older kind of badass, more rocky kind of punky sort of electric electric guitar sort of shit.
But God damn, that was, that was my number one Spotify artist this year.
And then number two is Bjork.
And those are, that's been my year.
Very similar, very similar in a lot of ways.
The fucking best man.
Oh my God.
That's a long one.
Is there, is there, well, we won't keep it long then, but I just, is there a particular
Bjork record?
Cause she didn't come out with a new record this year, right?
I think it was 2023 was her last and it was like very much like a mushroom concept.
I need to re-listen to that.
That sounds, yeah, I don't think I have even at all listened to her latest record.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And there's that whole period.
I think, I think the new one has some Arca stuff as well, but there's a couple albums
that are Arca produced or like a lot of it is just Arca together.
And yeah, that was when I was more of a casual fan and I saw her was Volna Cura.
I think it's called that album and live at fuck yeah.
Fest and LA that no longer exists, but that was, that was my favorite festival.
And she's just fucking amazing live and then going backwards into everything is quite the
journey for her.
Cause I think she's just, yeah, she, she could, she's right up there with my favorite stuff,
man.
I don't know.
Definitely, definitely top 10 for me is Bjork.
Is one of the things that you appreciate about her, the transformative nature that like equipment
of music has.
It's such a amazing combination of experimentation within music coupled with extreme talent,
both how she produces her music and comes up with the sounds that are completely singular
and don't sound like anyone else.
Like her music just, just sounds like her in my mind.
And then her voice is insane.
I know it's a lot for, for some people, but like her range is absolutely just insane.
And from a technical level, what she's able to do with arrangements of music is, I don't
know.
And in a lot of ways unmatched, like by a lot of, by a lot of people and even, yeah,
going to like her earlier kind of like more swingy jazzy sort of, sort of stuff.
It's just one of the coolest, one of the coolest people and has been a great deep dive, but
enough, enough about me.
Before we go into underworld, what was any deep dives of artists that you've been liking?
I just want to say that I feel like I've been going off about music.
This is cozy.
This is cozy morning, morning.
We're just shooting this, shooting this shit.
That's a good question.
Any deep dives in musicians that I've been doing lately?
No, not, not too much.
I've been listening to a lot of talking heads.
I think it would probably be like this year, I would say the most, like most deep divey
would be talking heads.
I did a fair amount of Roy Orbison.
I think those would be my top.
I mean with Charlie XCX's Brad album being as good and as, as popular as it is, it's
been just a blast to be able to talk with people who now like have listened to a Charlie
XCX record because prior to this, it was very, very few people were listening to records.
They would know like the single off of an album.
Sure.
And then as Charlie made records, it would be like, now this record has two singles.
Now this record has three singles now.
And then it just all came to this culmination of Brad coming out.
And it's like the, it's.
She was a great like feature on other people's stuff too, I feel like.
Sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think it's a great thing to produce because like, you know, that's, that's always
been a thing for me that just, I naturally gravitated towards this because it's like
having, you know, I guess I still am to a degree, but now that's waned a little bit,
but being such a big Kanye West fan is I love the producer artist individual, like because
somebody who's almost like a producer foremost and then just like sings on their stuff.
I really love that type of person because they're caring so much more about like, cause
the producer in like, in my mind operates in this.
I'm trying to push a sound like almost like a singularly.
If you were to think about just the concept, like, uh, like, uh, any great pop record has
like this particular sound to it.
And producers are like, that's where they're operating at.
And singers can come in and get slotted into this new sound that's happening.
Now I'm thinking of your brother, Marvin, Marvin, I'm yelling on the cozy podcast.
Um, you can't stop me.
Uh, but yeah.
So I always loved that artist.
And so, uh, Charlie's just been so fantastic to follow because there was a transition that
happened for her early on.
I think she had like two records before that were going in the direction of being like,
uh, almost like Megan trainer, if you will, like very commercial, uh, wanting producers
to come in and her to be like the pop star and less of having control over what it, what
the songs actually sound like.
And so she went in the total opposite direction and found this niche group of producers making
music online called PC music group and AG cook was one of them and hired him to be her
creative director, not a producer, but a creative director.
And then made pop too.
And when in this, well, firstly did vroom vroom EP because then Sophie was also connected
to PC music and then took that into like, this is what pop music is going to sound like
for the next 15, you know, 10, 15 years and identifying that and then moving in that direction
early on and then just polishing like what, like really it's always just like iterating
on what that, like what pop music is going to sound like.
And unsurprisingly, it sounds a lot like, um, Detroit house music.
It sounds a lot like drum and bass, you know, shit like that.
Um, yeah, it just, and all of that, it's just been so great.
So like, yeah, that's deeper dive and stuff.
Um, and it's just this whole year it's been fun that, um, the Charlie record has been
what everybody talks about.
It was just so, uh, such a part of the culture too.
Cause yeah, um, again, she's really good at a lot of things.
Marketing is one of them.
There's, you know, even before Brad years before Brad, so many interviews with her talking
about like how she wants to release her music, how she wants her like market her music and
things like that.
And it's just, she gets it, um, because she wants to get it.
She's interested in getting it.
She's interesting in solving this problem of like, what's the cool, like coolest music
you can make or whatever.
And um, yeah, it's, um, this year's been cool for that.
I agree, man.
Yeah.
That, that album lived up to every single bit of hype that you would ever hear about
if you've never even listened to any, just know of, uh, of the Brad lifestyle and you
never even heard of the music.
If you finally hear the music, it's going to live up to everything and more.
It's a, it's a amazing album.
And seeing, yeah, like her rises.
Awesome.
Speaking of rises.
Oh, good.
Good James.
Yes.
Let's speak of rise.
The Bratz rise.
Let's let's rise to the occasion of talking about this movie.
I can see Charlie in an underworld spin-off.
Yeah, me too.
So let's talk about spin-off later in the discussion.
Those goddamn Lycans, those goddamn Lycans, man.
Wait, no James, they're Lycans are the good guys.
Not the goddamn.
You sound like a real vampire just there.
Maybe I did sound like a little vampire.
I didn't mean it like that.
Cause I'm just so excited.
Michael Sheen's back and I also have excited Bill Dias too, but there's a, the evolution
situation was a little dip.
It was an unfortunate dip when there was a lot of potential in that movie in the sequel
that we watched.
There was a lot of good grace that the first one gave.
So plenty of criticism that that one had, but going into the second one, it was like,
now you have the opportunity to get really weird, a hybrid, you know, fucking you lose
a couple big characters.
You can do something really weird.
And it just seemed like it didn't go enough in that direction.
And this one really is just filling in the spacing and it doesn't reveal anything really
new, but it just tells a concise, clean, pretty cool story.
I think I referred to it as the rogue one of the underworld universe and in a certain
way because it just kind of, it just tells a story that you've always, you know, within
the past two movies wanted to just see because there's so much little hazy fucking weird
flashbacks and the first two that are like, I get it, but why do you have to make it strangely
edited?
And this is an hour and a half, tight 90, maybe of just telling you exactly what happens
and you kind of already know what's going to happen and it does.
And then it ends.
I don't know.
Yes.
One of the most service of all time.
Yeah.
That's like, I mean, that's in a way like rogue one really has a lot going for it.
It's not to worry about all the other crazy star wars shit.
It's like, no, we're just going to go point a to B. You get the plans for the death star.
You already knew that was going to happen, but you're just can explore the in between
of, of getting there and in a world that can be so expansive, those limitations can be
really nice.
We got a castle, we got vampires in the castle, we got likens that are, that are forming human
and werewolf.
You know, they can go back and forth and then you got the really gnarly like the really,
uh, I mean, are they called like, or just werewolves?
The ones that you were barreling through this, James, no, just setting the stage.
I just like how simple it is.
I love how simple it is.
Right.
Okay.
I want to just pull this back a little bit.
This is a, I'm cozy podcast.
I want to talk to you real quick about prequels and how you feel about them.
Cause me personally, not, not a fan.
I'm not a fan of prequels.
I mean, if I like, for example, if I were to rank the Indiana Joneses temple of doom
would be the last out of the three, the three, I was going to say the five.
No, let's, yeah.
What do you mean?
I don't know.
We didn't talk about this.
We don't talk about this at the two movies.
Yeah.
And then also too, that one doesn't, yeah, it doesn't like feel beholden to anything
setting up, you know, like I, I get the reasons why you would hate a prequel.
And my guess would be a little bit of that, like, well, you're going to see speaking of
star wars.
Oh, yeah.
You're Han.
Oh, you're by yourself.
So I guess you Han solo, you just look down the camera like, yeah, you get it.
You get it right.
You love this.
Yeah.
It feels like it has to like clue you into all that, that shit that just, you know, that
was, yeah, that stuff can feel forced and convoluted.
Yeah.
I mean, and more so than what I'm saying with the Indiana Jones analogy is I think those
three movies are better than most movies just in general.
But if I had to order, you know, the Mona Lisa, it's like, you know, I would put the
prequel last because the concept of going like, I know that it doesn't establish a whole
lot and it doesn't care too much, which makes it good.
And there are things about this movie that I really enjoy that are similar to that, where,
like you said, it being so economical and not getting bogged down and like, we need to
know all of these like houses or how things, you know, a lot of things came to be to try
to relate to it.
It just like is more focused on the adventure, which Temple of Doom definitely is.
But again, just the concept of going like making a thing and then wanting to go tell
the story before it.
I don't know.
I just, that is a concept.
It's not something that I'm like, oh, yes, I like my mind naturally goes to that place.
I just saw this thing.
I would love to know the thing that came before it.
Yeah, it's very, it's very minimal with those little things that are going to be referenced
in the future.
And the only thing I can really think of is the heavy, you know, stressing of the necklace
and how important that damn like necklace is, because that's just filmed with such importance.
It's those kinds of things where it's like, you don't give something importance unless
you already kind of know about it.
And that's where I think some of the prequel stuff can get.
I'm almost thinking of even like Spectre or some shit like my name is Blofeld.
And it's like, oh my God, it's Blofeld.
We all know what that means.
And it doesn't mean anything until you give it the importance that, you know, in the context
of the movie that you're making.
And that's where I think that's the closest for me in this, in this movie kind of does
that because it's, it does those that flashback thing.
And to be in a prequel and get another flashback, we're going pre pre to him giving her the
necklace and everything.
It's like, yeah, no, I get that.
It's important.
It's going to be important.
And all the way up until, you know, him holding it at the end and then some forced stuff to
kind of clue you into what's going to happen next.
Beyond that, it's like, yeah, this is an important movie.
It's really, again, it's really straightforward.
And I think, I think it, you know, as far as prequels go, and that being the thing that
I don't like about them, this one doesn't do too much of that.
And I guess the other, yeah, another criticism of prequels is just like, yeah, what's the
point, especially when it's, it feels like it's coming after like, oh, we've had success
with these other things, let's expand the universe in a way that like, I don't know,
the movie that we, uh, polarize ourselves on and very early on in this podcast, you
know, we're getting a Mufasa movie, Brandon, you know, we want to see what, how Mufasa
came to be, you know, is that, is that necessary?
Like, I don't know.
Well, I guess we'll see, we'll see what happens, but it just speaks more of like something
being forced rather than coming up with something new.
We can just tell a story within the universe and have, you question the stakes.
You just question the stakes of, of certain things, you know, and even this movie, it's
like, I know Michael Sheen is going to live by the, like at the end, nothing's going to
happen to him.
I know she's going to die and I know Bill Nye is going to live too, and there will be
put away in some coffin thing.
So you know, know those things going in to make it interesting within that can be very
difficult.
Absolutely.
And I don't know if this movie fully succeeds on that level of making it wholly interesting.
One thing I'll say, I'm going to just make a wild prediction.
I know this is probably just so, so crazy for me to think that this is how the Mufasa
movie is going to go, but I bet you the Mufasa movie is going to be very similar to Wicked.
By the end of it, Scar is going to be who he is and Mufasa is going to be who he is
and it's going to be a total Wicked situation where the whole movie is really going to be
about like them being very close brothers and then having ideological differences and
going different directions.
Yeah, that's, that's my, that's my assumption.
God if there's, there's gotta be, there's probably like new Lin-Manuel Miranda songs
or something that are part of that.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm just imagining the Scar Mufasa song.
Oh yeah.
Like it looks to me the equivalent.
I'm a doctorated loving.
Unlimited.
Is the Mufasa.
No, I don't want to talk about Mufasa anymore.
It's going to ask more questions.
I mean, yeah, that's just, that's the best example of like a prequel that do we, do we
need and there's, there's a whole, whole bunch of them.
And as you said, this movie is not perfect and it begs those questions that we were asking
now of like, what is really the point?
But then once you're, once I'm in it, I'm having such a good time with the vampires
and the Likens and then the guys that I like are back and they're just like hamming it
up against each other and having sword fights.
I don't know.
Well, what I would say is like the thing, there is kind of this thing about prequels
where if you take the good things of the original stuff and expound upon them and make them
better, like it's almost like somebody is coming in and understands what people think
is funny to a thing that was already created and then focusing on highlighting the strengths
of the original series in a way that's successful.
And that's what I think happens here is like what we've talked about in our discussions
for the first two movies was how, you know, practical effects with werewolves, the performances
of Bill Nye and like him being this vampire Lord Grey, like these kinds of things.
And also to how weak the love story in the first two Underworlds are and how this love
story way, way better.
Like it keeps and bounds better to people who like actually are attracted to each other.
So it wasn't really like a hard, you know, necessarily a hard thing to nail or to iterate
on because the first two movies were so poor in their depiction of like a love that that's
going to like explode the universe, like this love that's like going to has to happen in
order for humanity to prevail.
And it's the actual Romeo and Juliet.
It's weird to hear the first underworld described as that when even when they talk about the
past and Lucian and everything, it's like, oh, that's, that's where all of this started.
And you know, especially when there's a castle and there's two warring factions, you know,
and it's just in the behind the scenes, what do they call it?
Extreme Romeo and Juliet.
Extreme.
Yeah, but it has it has the tragedy and it has unrequited love and it has them sneaking
around and the original love story between speed men and Beckinsale is never really has
the opportunity to get to that place.
It really is them feeling each other out and then evolution.
It's kind of just way is for it feels all forced.
Yeah, no.
Well, right.
Because the movie doesn't care so much anymore about that so much so that it was so weird
at the end of it where the fact that Scott Speedman is a vampire werewolf hybrid doesn't
really mean much.
It just all it really served was he was a little bit stronger than the original werewolf
so he could kill it.
That was about it.
There's no implications for him being a hybrid to the broader world and why and why it would
matter so much that Kate Beckinsale because it's so funny to think about in hindsight,
like Kate Beckinsale was always on the outside.
So there's never any like her getting together with a hybrid doesn't matter because who cares?
She's not exiled because of her relationship.
Like in this movie, she's already exiled.
The fact that she stumbles upon Scott Speedman is like it's so it has no weight.
It doesn't matter.
And then on top of that, they just really don't have any chemistry.
And this movie corrects all of that.
It does.
It establishes why.
What the stakes are for two groups of people like fighting and the intermingling being
an issue.
Yeah, this movie does all that.
Yeah, I mean, you reminded me as well, like to even that earlier point of like something
that I did almost expect after watching those first two and not seeing this one in a while
was having a lot more bread crumbing of Kate Beckinsale's character.
And I'm happy that that wasn't a thing because that would have felt forced and pointless
as well.
Although like at the end of Underworld Evolution, that is like a point of like my father built
this place or he built, you know, and I is that father in this at all?
I can't say that I remember him as a character.
I really thought that he was going to one be the one to make the key or something for
Lucian and start, you know, I don't know.
I was just surprised that in evolution that seemed like much more of something that was
going to be a foreshadowing to a prequel or a pre shadow, a pre shadowing, not a foreshadowing,
but a pre because you're about to go backwards.
And he's going like this.
The prison was constructed by my father and I'm having these genetic memories is what
they call them in the behind the scenes as well.
We get truth blood again, again, Brandon and my favorite things.
Yeah.
I just, I thought that that would keep I can see what would be more of like a kid running
around like I'm going to help or like, oh no, my, my family, they're gone.
Now I'm going to be a, be a vampire with.
I'm also going to be like this guy.
I'm Ken Beckinsale.
I mean, when you think about that as the main character of this series, this would have
been the opportunity to be like Bill Nye.
I guess there was no time because, because Sonya just died.
But then when does he find this girl that reminds him so much of his daughter that he
decides to like keep her around?
Cause that was the whole thing that they presented in the first movies was like, he loved Kate
Beckinsale cause she reminded him of his, of his executed daughter.
And that was why he like, yeah, he kept her around, but it was just, it was interesting
that they didn't, they just didn't do that.
I was like, oh, yeah.
You just said, and then all they did was just show cool shot of her, you know, brooding.
That was the opening shot of the first one.
It was just, it was interesting that they didn't take that opportunity, but I'm also
kind of okay with it.
I'm with, I, cause that would have been kind of forced and annoying.
Exactly.
Yes.
Added more to this 90 minute movie, which is the perfect length.
Perfect length for this movie.
No.
Yeah.
I'm really glad that they didn't do any of that because it's unnecessary.
Yeah.
I mean, the funny thing is, it's like, you know, to the credit of this world is you just
put together logically all these things that they provided for you to explain how you,
how somebody could be this thing, but they chose not to include it, which is a level
of restraint that I think we should all just appreciate.
Absolutely.
Put that out there.
Cause yes, I know that you may want these things, but isn't it kind of nice where it
cared more about not explaining the thing that you could get to on your own.
It just, yeah, it's sweaty.
This one is, um, uh, let's, let's start talking.
Yeah.
Let's talk.
Let's talk to directors too.
I feel, do you, did you clock that just in like the overall sound?
Cause I even like the, what we're talking, what we're talking about with this extraneous
stuff within the story, I feel like that would have been the earlier directors need and want
to be like, no, we got to pepper all this stuff into like really clue people in, uh,
about what's going on in a very forceful flashback sort of way.
And this one had, yeah, it did have a little more restraint.
It had a more consistent, uh, look, look, even if it is very dark and it is very like
blue gray, at least is one, probably the better looking one out of, out of the three.
And what helps that as well is a castle that's just all really one, one setting and you can
color correct in a way that just fits that setting and you don't have to go too far outside
of that.
And I think, yeah, it just looks clean and it it's, uh, yeah, it's fun sets.
It's great, pretty fun costumes and the practical effects are there because this guy is what
that's what he was doing before this director.
He was doing all the creating all the creatures and everything.
So you took a real care to those big rubber like in outfits.
I just love them.
I love them so much.
There's some, it's, it's funny to think about how like the director of this movie isn't,
you know, didn't start off being necessarily a director because this movie clearly is just
ripping off Lord of the Rings.
This is like the Lord of the Rings effect, like the first two Zealand as well.
Yeah, dude.
The first two movies wanted to be matrix and this one wanted to be and the thing is, it's
like, it's very, it's so much, it's so much more successful as being more like the thing
that you love that this movie is than the other two, because the other two trying to
be the matrix was, it wasn't really that successful.
You know, a lot of the like, yeah, the tech clothing, all of that vibe, you know, this,
yeah, every computers was all just very corny.
The thing that was really enjoyable and I'm sure we highlighted in our discussions previously
is like the monsters of it all were awesome.
And having that being a more that being like the Genesis of it, like somebody who's like,
oh, the monsters in this need more, like, you know, that's what matters in this.
That's great direction of this franchise because that is understanding actually what was cool
about the first one because yeah, some of the gunplay was cool for sure, but it just
like, it's a lot flatter than when it was like kind of a horror movie with scary beasts.
And also to this is very similar to the opening of the second movie, you know, with it's kind
of closer to its setting being the, yeah, I don't know what you'd say what century they're
in.
But that part of the second one was amongst my favorite.
I would say, you know, I really enjoyed that whole scene and Sonya is there too.
It's so cool.
And yeah, and that scene was also cool in the second one because it had Bill Nye and
Bill Nye really gets this.
Isn't it so cool to see a guy of his caliber like locked in to what this means because
it's got to be such a difficult job because you were playing before we started like behind
the scenes and Bill Nye was talking about it.
And the way that he interprets it is like this, he genuinely looks at the situation
as being like what has happened, like treats it like it really happened to this character.
And so he goes, this is a guy who chains his daughter to a post and then burns her.
So he just, he's like that guy can't be down here.
A person who is capable of doing that has to be up here and he's able to maintain that
level of being up here and even the like low part, he can go low, but he's also really
high too in those low moments.
And it's so great to watch, man.
It's enjoyable.
And it's a really enjoyable part of this movie for sure for me.
The ability to express the hurt for everything in those private moments in this movie too,
I thought was just excellent.
And then when he's in front of other people, he has to maintain the strength even though
there's like a little flicker in his eye where you know that like he has some little bit
of sympathy humanity in there somewhere, but you can barely see it, but you can.
He's so good at just like giving you that little bit.
And that interview was made me so happy because he said, I express a lot of the things that
I loved about the movie and the lore and everything too.
He's like, I love when there's rules to vampires.
I love it.
I love the daylight bullets.
I love when they have to harness the sun my into energy.
I love, you know, it's goes through this list of all the, all the stuff that someone would
laugh at.
And he's so like, I fucking love it.
And taking it very much into absorbing it into his character, into the world.
And that's the kind of person that, that you want in a situation like this.
And it's so when I was watching behind the scenes, seeing all this big sets getting built
up and everything, it's like, that's so cool to see, you know, just at a very base level,
the manpower that goes into make a movie.
And then you can see Bill Nye just slotted in to that space and you're like, Oh, now,
now it's a thing like, and that before this is all pretend what you put Bill neither now
we're talking now it's really, it just fully realizes everything.
And Michael Sheen as well, just fucking, you know, ripped, no shirt, sweaty, hairy man.
Oh my God.
How does he do it?
I don't.
Yeah.
It's, I just, it's not like he does any other roles like this.
No, I recently watched a frost Nixon that was being made at the same time.
I never seen it, but there's this little detail where he had to record some audio for that
movie in his a werewolf attire or whatever in his underworld attire, send it to Ron Howard.
Yeah.
A great movie.
I really enjoy frost Nixon and he plays a, a playboy, but he's a, he's a talk show host.
So he's kind of got this playboy nature to him.
And Michael Sheen is kind of a funny looking guy, but he's able to have such a confidence
to him.
That's really like, I don't know, contributes, contributes to this, like leading man energy.
Cause I guess I would just say that you could, you know, I don't know if he would, you would
say he's conventionally handsome, but he has this energy about him that really gets him
to be like, Oh, this guy's like a big presence.
He looks great on screen.
He's confident he's in and whatnot.
And again, it's so nice how much he, like Michael Sheen, like Bill Nye is bringing this
like impassioned and realistic, like not realistic, but like an appreciation for the material
and not trying and like really trying to hype it up.
Like being on board with what needs to be said.
And again, yeah, it's just, it's, it's so enjoyable.
And then in comparison to, you know, the first, the first two Underworlds, yeah.
With Scott Spieman being just a wet blanket.
Yeah, that's a, that's a nicer way to put it.
Cause I was thinking of the same thing.
It's like when you have that big set of people there and everything and you, yeah.
When you slot in Scott Spieman, it just feels, I don't know, not to rail rail on speedman
more like we did in past episodes, but just, just feels like serviceable, you know, instead
of like elevating everything.
Like yeah, right.
Right.
Yeah.
You're having your big dumb vampire where like, like in werewolf battle movie, you know,
set in whatever medieval sort of times.
And it could just be so much more, more forgettable, more silly, more stupid in a bad way where
you're, where you're angry at it.
But there's just an elevation to everything.
And you mentioned the love scene, their chemistry is out of control and it's not a lot of scenes,
you know, you get really important ones that do a lot for you and you, and you can imagine
more outside of your mind, you know, just like, oh wow, they have such a connection
that you know, this has been going on for a while and then seeing like how they behave
and you know, and how they have to keep it under wraps and everything.
It's like, there isn't a point where they over give too much exposition to that or anything
really in general, you know, so much about this, the story they, they give you whatever
crawl at the beginning and whatever sort of narration and then it really is, is just very
clear and direct what's going to happen.
And yeah, meeting in that, in the, in the cool little spot and for, for some sexy cliffside
love making.
Okay.
This was a Psy Ops to you Brandon to just get to talk about the scene.
This scene is so fucking funny.
I know man.
Because like, you know, we just, this is, I don't know, it's just stupid childish humor,
but it is endlessly funny to think about having sex on the side of a cliff where when you
climax you're doing a trust fall and your, your partner is like the weight and the full
crumb and you're like, you're like,
It's like a geometric structure.
It's wow.
What is just visually striking.
I had a bare minimum.
It's hard.
You don't expect it.
It catches you so often.
You're like, no, and their faces are just like pure ecstasy.
And now that I know it's coming, I think it's so hot and so great.
I love it.
I'm just like, yeah, it's sexy.
You can do good looking people slow sultry into it.
Then all of a sudden it's just like,
And the shot down is just Michael Sheen as a big grizzled man, just with the happiest
young boy smile.
He's like, yay.
And then, yeah, that's how we all feel inside.
James is, you know, when you haven't seen that in the comma suture Brandon, it's got
to be something that, you know, it's there's something so there's just something so magical
about coming, you know, it makes you just go,
Oh, yes.
So heightened.
I mean, maybe she felt the conception almost immediately.
Right.
Do you think that the cum has memories, James?
Wow.
I mean, why wouldn't it?
The things that Bill and I must do to get information.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So do you think it's a situation when that happened that she like?
Yeah.
Similarly to what she like, you drinks blood, you know, that when when when?
Yeah, I don't see why not.
Yeah.
OK, good.
OK.
I'm probably.
Yeah, I think so, too.
I agree.
She's like,
What would the memories be?
I know.
Is it different?
It's just it's just it's just moments of him being like,
it's just moments of him just jacking.
That would be my guess.
Yeah.
This is his laundry list.
His life leading up to that moment of every time he checked out every single other person
he had sex with.
Yeah, that too.
Wow, man.
Oh, God.
Um, bodily fluids provide genetic memories.
That's what they called it in the behind the scenes.
They called it genetic memories.
There's a term that's created for it, and it's a big part of this world.
Yeah, it's I would I would go so far to say that you could still consider come to this
to date genetic memories.
That's yeah, that's scientifically what it's what it's known as.
And yeah, it's more of a slang term, but yeah.
God, I can only imagine that that scene with Bill Nye and Tanis.
Oh, wow.
Where is the key?
Where is the key, Tanis?
I know you have it.
And you're a smart.
Tanis.
What do you think of Tanis?
I'm kind of I'm a little bit on Tanis.
It's just such a it's such a.
I think Liz Roy.
Well, it's such an obvious.
Yeah, tropey sort of Machiavellian guy.
Yeah.
Oh, he's just the master of tongues or whatever.
I was thinking like, yeah, like green, my worm tongue sort of, you know, sort of like
skew the number number two guy.
But like the whole idea of a coup and everything like that's
and then like making a quid pro quo quo sort of thing.
It was like a quid pro quo pro quo or something because she like.
He's like, I'm going to tell about you guys.
He's like, oh, well, if you don't, then you can have a seat on the, you know, high council
or something.
And then he's like, great.
And she's like, well, you got to get me something in return.
Like what?
That the thing in return was he wasn't going to tell about you.
She's like, no, I need something to you got to set Lucian free.
He's like, okay.
I mean, like you didn't have to do that.
He's a terrible negotiator.
Quid pro quo.
And he's like, yeah, another another quote or whatever.
Yeah.
Oh, actually give you two things for the price of one.
Yeah, he's terrible at his job.
Yeah, here.
No, take the key.
Take the key.
Also in all, and to this movie doesn't really do him any credits.
And again, maybe this might be something I would like a little bit more is there's no
real drama between ruling parties.
This movie is pretty insular to just what's happening within that family.
And you don't get a lot of like, it's very yeah.
What is the neighboring vampire immortals doing?
Right.
Because we're we're still at that point.
So right.
Like, well, they put Mark.
You see the Marcus coffin at some point.
So he's just he's like the first one that's still under wraps and the only time they show
him is that's the mummy.
Sorry, the mummies under wraps.
But is it Marcus or whatever?
They show them lowering that coffin at the end.
Right.
He's just been in there the whole time.
I think then.
Yeah.
OK.
Right.
And the other like very first werewolf.
Where's that guy?
He's down being locked up as well, I guess.
Yes.
Right.
OK.
Because the the Corvinus person was the first immortal.
So yeah, we are actually like you can even go further back to Corvinus era because we're
in like.
In what has been communicated to us in these three movies is there is a time much earlier.
Yeah.
When like the first vampire and the first werewolf and then Derek Jacobi in Underworld
Evolution was the father.
Father.
Right.
Yeah.
Or he.
Yes.
He showed up in Gladiator 2.
I was like, oh, yeah, that guy.
Oh, was he the first one?
Yeah, he was.
Right.
Because he's the senator.
Yeah.
Right.
Is it Grackus or whatever?
Yeah.
He's like a beacon of coups.
He's trying to get that whole.
He's not.
Oh, God.
He's always a schemer.
He's a little schemer.
Yeah, he's a little schemer.
A2.
Derek Jacobi.
Wow.
Anyway, so.
A2 Tanis?
Now, that's so interesting to think about how the then.
This time.
This is just really about the enslavement of the Lycans and the rebellion of them because
there's so much of a focus of about them and not as much.
Yeah.
About the origin, which would be a cool prequel to go into and then into the rise of the Lycans
but this is really just about their enslavement, the birth of Lucian.
Lucian.
Michael Sheen's character.
Michael Sheen's character and him being able to morph between.
Both forms.
And then they really just take his genetics and genetic memory, whatever, and create a
whole race of Lycans that can morph between the two, but they just keep them.
Enslave.
Enslave and have the chains on their necks.
Yeah.
Because then if they do morph, then it'll kill them.
That's what I really thought.
Kate Beckinsale's dad was like, I'll create a whole bunch of keys.
He's right.
Totally.
Yeah.
He's like, right.
He's yeah, he's like the guy who created the maze, the labyrinth.
Right.
Like a disgruntled human or something.
Because that was another thing, like whatever warring vampire factions, but I kind of liked
the whole idea of the humans and when they come in of just like, you know, like these
vampires are just taking advantage of them and ruling over them and taking, and then
they're stuck in the middle between them and the Lycans that just fucking roll up and attack
their village.
And it's like, oh, they're essentially vampire mafia.
Like, oh, you want to protection against the Lycans, don't you?
So give us all your fucking.
So interesting.
You're right.
Totally.
Yeah.
God.
And the way that the so we do see like lords of the humans.
I do love this too, James.
I like that meeting.
Yeah.
Like there's also this.
Yeah.
This whole human population that is evolving and has its own, you know, hierarchies and
whatnot.
And they have to the vampires sit above that.
It gives the supremacy to it that's really fun where you're like, oh yeah, these are
like the super lords and this land.
And later in the movie, one of the options that one, I don't know if it's Tandis or one
of the council members suggests is like creating a middle class of, of like, yes, they're like,
we'll give them a little bit of property and like have, and like, and have like, yeah,
home of their own or something.
And they'll be just.
They can't control them forever.
Essentially.
So they're creating this whole cast system and they're trying to do the law.
Oh my God.
It's like, yeah, if we, cause if we get rid of Lucian, then you know, they're going to
rebel, but maybe we just, you know, elevate him up a little bit.
So it'll give the other like, and something that they feel like they can attain is attainable
as well as like some version of freedom.
Right.
But no, no, totally.
Like, yeah, it's essentially a mimicking a human history.
Right.
And it's this whole, the people rebelling and rising up in that.
Yeah.
This movie fundamentally is such a classic tale of, of the underdog, you know, overthrowing
the ruling class, the working class, overthrowing the proletariat.
Absolutely.
This is kind of like the layman's.
But it is interesting to think about.
There's a third faction of just humans that are just like fucking seen as, as again, like
in the middle.
And then the Likens eventually just convinced them to join their side, which is so interesting
too.
Cause I know even in evolution, there's a reveal to be this whole Illuminati of humans
that serve the vampires and shit too.
There's so much stuff.
Absolutely.
And I, another thing I loved was the nation that Likens were getting like breaking free.
They would go to a human village and then infect everybody.
And there's that concept of like this virus that they are that gets out and it just converts
a whole town into these Likens.
And that, and it's just presenting such an issue where, yeah, they're like the Likens
and the humans are becoming, are like more connected than these vampires that sit so
far above, like the average human.
And so they're like, yeah, I don't know.
Indoctrinating people through their ability to transform them into vampires to support
their cause.
And that's, that's so interesting too.
Is like the, there was, I saw it, I thought it was a fascinating scene was like getting
into how things are done.
Cause you just have so many questions every year.
Like, Oh, how does that, how does that work?
Cause like they were bringing humans in, which is how his buddy is it raise?
Yeah.
Raise raise.
You see him as a human.
He's brought into this ritual of becoming a Liken put on by the vampires.
So the vampires are like, we're not going to create more vampires.
We're going to create Likens to just have more slaves, this higher class of vampires.
And when raises about to get infected by these just three werewolves, like, okay, next.
Okay.
It's a living.
Bill Nye is like, don't you see the, the gifts that I am giving you.
And I,
well, because also to the humans that are brought in like raise or like the, the supreme
specimens of the town.
It's almost like they're farming the best slaves.
Yeah.
You know, and then.
It's all like men of age.
Yeah.
You look at like, um, the, in the prison cells, it's all just these guys in there.
Yeah.
Well, the lady likens.
Right.
That's what I mean.
What is Lucian going to do?
Give him a lady like it.
If you don't want them to be messing around with, with Sonya, your daughter, have we ever
seen a lady like it at all?
No lady like it's just a bunch of that's like the fight club thing in the first one.
It really feels like a fight club because it's just like underground and they're all
dudes fighting.
Yeah.
Just beat the shit out of each other.
But then, yeah, there's no, there's no, so I guess it's really just infecting asexual
reproduction of likens where you just, I don't know how sexually a bite is, but it's
just a, it's just a bite.
That is, oh, wow.
That is, yeah, you're right.
You don't need, you don't need a like a reproduction because you just need to bite them.
Yeah.
Wow.
So then you just don't have lady like ends.
It's just because a dude's boning down on each other as werewolves or like, but that
can't be true if they're going into villages and infecting people.
So I wonder out in the, like in the general population, there must be lady likens.
We just don't see them in this movie.
Yeah.
Or it would have been nice.
Like when he went to go treat with them at their, uh, at their den, there would have
been some lady likens like bringing up little pups or something.
Like, Oh, baby, like, Oh, look at the cute little baby likens.
Okay.
Well, idea for a movie.
I mean that, yeah, that's like the questions that don't need answering cause it's a silly
vampire werewolf movie, but yeah, I do question like, what's the aging process like, you know,
like you see Sonia as a, as a, as a child and the same age as Michael Sheen, like they're
both children at the same time, grow up together, always kind of looking at each other.
And then they both reach, I guess peak form and stop.
Cause I mean that is peak Michael Sheen.
He's at peak.
He's at peak Brian Michael Sheen.
So why not just stop?
Stay there.
Michael Sheen is peak in this movie.
Well, I can't, Kate Beckinsale was a child at this time.
She reveals last movie.
So she grew up to be peak Beckinsale.
Yeah.
Right.
Stopped.
Or Bill Nye, you know, it took, he goes a little bit further.
Yeah.
That is go further.
That is peak Nye.
If you ask me though.
That's like a lot of peaks and valleys.
Yeah.
That's funny to, yeah.
You're right.
Um, Michael Sheen reaches this age and then for centuries, he's going to just be this.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
This is right.
Yeah.
It's right.
And Sonia and everyone just is like, okay, yep.
We're at supermodel age or whatever.
Yeah.
Peak physical perfection, but Sheen's a Lichen and Sonia's a vampire.
Somehow they just both agree that that is the time.
But I like that we're getting a lot about just like that about this movie and the lore
because when you get down to like the plot of it and everything, it is very straightforward
and it is incredibly straightforward.
Cut and dry and going through the beats, you know, is, um, I don't know.
I found myself really not taking much notes either.
I took no notes.
Just like kind of just, yeah, I don't know.
You turn your brain off and watch the vampires and werewolves battle each other.
Yeah.
There's a lot of yelling in this movie.
There's a lot of, um, cold looks.
There's a lot of, yeah, just shots of gray, blue structures.
Yeah.
It's.
Lots of towers and stone.
Yeah.
It doesn't, it doesn't feel claustrophobic to me, even though it is pretty much all at
the castle.
Lucian gets free and you know, they, they are in the woods for, I love how they're just
like, okay, let's go.
And they run into the woods, you know, and then they're fast.
They're going to go rally and rally people.
And there's a little bit of them camping out in the woods and stuff.
There's some of that in New Zealand, which is, which is cool.
And then they take, yeah, he sneaks back in, gets caught.
I think that, yeah, mentioning the really, the, the tragic scene that you know is happening
is going to happen.
But though that is just amazing acting like to for Bill Nye and Michael Sheen, both, because
for Bill Nye, you're about to fucking execute your daughter.
And that is like, how do you, how do you approach that as an actor?
You know?
Yeah.
And then in having him be so sad in the room, in her room after it's like, I'm so glad that
they had that, that moment of, of the execution.
Yeah, please.
If you could pull the clip, I would love to, I would love to watch it soon.
I'm sure you could find it.
Yeah.
I just, that scream.
Oh no, that scream that Michael, that Michael Sheen.
Ronamitra, I woe, sorry.
What's that?
It's her name in bottom.
I said the Ronamitra's name, the character name in Boston legal instead of her actual,
you know, her running.
Just that.
I watched, uh, how long that recently too.
She's in a little bit of that.
She's in that scene.
Um, but yeah, she's, she's great as a kind of someone who, you know, feels like a Beck
and sale because supposedly that's why Beck and sales around.
Cause my thought she reminded him so much of, uh, of his own daughter, but I, yeah,
this, this guttural scream.
Just look at me.
Keep your eyes on me.
Look at me.
Do you want to, I can go a little bit earlier.
And it's, yeah.
It's really just the image in the first one.
They do a good job of really enormous creating the scene.
That was just this picture.
This is like the mind's hurry up.
You get Bill Nye weeping.
Yeah.
I'm just picturing.
I'm just picturing, um, Michael Sheen, just going over the script and everything and being
consummate professional, probably rehearsing, you know, on his own, how he's going to do,
do everything, memorizing lines and all that.
And then he just goes to the part where he's like, I just have to let out the scream of
the most.
Yeah.
Just the most, just trash.
The person you love is lying in front of you.
That's the thing.
It's like, that's such difficult material to do, honestly.
That's why in most of these movies, you just, people don't rise to the, like to the meaning
behind the words rise of the light.
And Michael Sheen can, and so can Bill Nye.
Yeah.
And it just gives us stuff like that.
Wait.
When you know that's going to happen anyways, it just makes it mean that much more to have
it, have the reaction of, of the person who's the main character in your movie, uh, experiencing
in such a, such a real way.
It creates that thing that you already know it's happened real and, uh, and lived in a
bit more, which for the prequel, I think that's, yeah, the performances for sure is a big part
of what makes this worth it for me.
Um, we get the final, yeah, like the final big battles is pretty cool.
Seeing all those Likens roll up to the castle.
Uh, a lot of ballista.
Yes.
How about the ballista is just like shish kebabing people, dude.
Yeah, man.
Multiple times.
It'd be like, Oh, you get double kill.
Yeah.
I just get two people or two Likens and then they create a wall of ballistas shots or whatever
to stop the Likens from escaping on one point.
Um, so some of that action stuff is, is fun.
You get more of the CG Likens at this part.
Yeah.
Um, but it's, yeah, still mixed in every now and then you'll get a big guy in a, in an
outfit and a big like an outfit.
I love it.
I don't know.
I love it.
I love it too, man.
It's so silly, but it's just so, so fun.
And then, uh, Bill Nye getting in on some sword fighting.
I thought it was pretty great too.
I was like, Oh my God, he's actually, he's, he's battling Michael Sheen.
There's a mono Emano with, with him, you know, which I know he, he met his, his end against
Kate Beckinsale, uh, half, half-headedly.
And there's a little bit of battle there, but seeing him just scale a castle and like,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, with Michael, yeah.
Oh yeah.
I love it too.
It's yeah, there's a, they're just so strong and powerful.
And we're in this fantasy world and you just have these, uh, yeah, believable actors in
the, in the scenario and the material and the world that they're, they're, uh, they're
a part of in this movie and it's enjoyable as hell to watch, um, these sequences, man.
And then I, yeah.
And I love the final shot is just makes me feel like a fucking yeah.
13 year old boy, like, Oh, look at all those likens on that castle.
Oh, they took over the castle.
That's such a cool, it's such a cool.
Yeah.
They're all like crawling all over and everything.
And then I just wish they would just end it there.
Cause this other stuff is so tacked on.
Like you can have Bill Nye going away and like in the coffin.
That's fine.
Whatever.
That's fine.
Yeah.
But the Cape beckon sale brooding on the, you know, for the beginning, it's like, no,
I know we're leading into the, I get it.
Yeah.
I get it.
All right, movie.
Yeah.
I mean, just to watch our new world, you would get that experience.
You don't need to like,
You think I'm here.
Who's that?
Yeah.
How many people are just stumbling into rise of the light?
See that's the thing is that when I was saw it the first time, my buddy Jason was like,
yeah, she's a big deal.
She's kind of a big deal.
Like, oh yeah, she's got these.
Yeah.
I've seen the poster.
I get it.
Yeah, that's all you need.
What's that about?
Shame on you movie.
Little test desk right at the end.
Yeah.
Just a little test desk when you, when you had such good grace with my fucking like kids
took over the castle.
Yeah.
And then it's like, right.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, let's say here's some reviews here real quick.
You want to take a quick, quick break ski, quick, and then we'll get into some reviews.
Let's do it.
We have returned from our break.
Welcome back to polarize podcast polarizing.
Are we back on which looks like we're back on Twitch.
I was skipping some frames earlier, but our audio fans don't need to know about that.
Be very, very much just a lie.
But yes, we have returned.
Welcome back everybody.
The scores for this movie was a 30% from the critics, say 63% from the audience.
I actually want to see what the difference was from evolution because yeah, it was, they
like met in the middle because the critics gave an evolution of 17 and then the audience
gave it a 72.
And then this is them kind of starting to agree a little bit more and meet right there
in the middle.
That's funny.
Isn't it?
Yeah.
That is kind of funny where the audience is like, no, we don't like this as much in the
critics.
We want, we want a little bit better, but we still hate it.
It's like, it seems like people pleasing behavior from underworld rise of the Likens.
But I don't know this as I've said, it does a lot of things for me.
Let's see what the critics did not like about it though.
We'll start with Brian Egger deep focused review here on Rot Tomatoes.
An efficient yarn about an uprising that though we know the grim outcome makes for a watchable
diversion even if it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
So a little bit lukewarm here.
Yes.
Robbie Collin from news of the world.
You'll appreciate this.
Basically it's Frost Nixon to draw us Vixen.
I like that a lot.
And there's plenty to be ashamed of.
Guy nailed it.
Let's hear from Eddie Cockrell, Sydney morning Harold, two out of five, the numerous action
sequences while imaginative lack of visual cohesion that allows them to be fully appreciated.
Jason Anderson at the Toronto star, a one out of four underworld rise of the Likens
is as unnecessary as it is uninvolving.
Only fans desperate to learn how the whole vampire werewolf conflict began are likely
to get anything out of this viewing experience.
Well, hard to scream.
Manola Dargis from New York Times said, Manola Dargis, my favorite little snippet here.
She said, unlike, I love her now.
Yeah, I love her.
Unlike Mr. Nye, who puts on puts an amusing camp spin on his every line and gesture.
Mr. Sheen appears to have taken his monster duties seriously.
But you didn't like that Manola.
She gave it two out of five.
It says here, I don't have the full review, but that's the little Rotten Tomatoes clip.
Maybe she felt those performances were at odd somehow.
I think I think they're both very earnest in their performances.
We'll do one or two more.
Clark Hollis, Entertainment Weekly, C Plus, Sheen and I do their best with the material,
but this is easily the worst underworld so far.
And then from Ryan Stewart at Slant Magazine, historical events referenced in the first
two installments of the underworld franchise are brought to life in this passionless, idea
deprived prequel.
I'll do this one more from Richard Corliss from Time Magazine.
I'd provide more detail of plot and dialogue, but the visual palette was way too dark for
me to take legible notes.
And frankly, though I saw it at a midnight screening hours ago, the movie just wasn't
that memorable.
So this guy, it was too dark for him to write notes in the movie theater and he's still
awake a couple hours after midnight.
Go to bed, Richard Corliss.
You up at like 3 a.m.?
I guess it was a midnight movie, but he's like, you can't even write it right after
he finished watching it.
OK, well, he just he just didn't like it.
He didn't like it.
Let's hear what the people have to say.
Likens rise.
Yeah.
Oh, I didn't go through any of my notes.
I'll do that real quick before we do audience reviews.
I will not bite much.
He says raise.
I love that.
He said that to raise.
They're going to be best friends forever.
We can be slaves or we could be like it.
Yes.
That's awesome.
So, so great.
Yeah.
Necklace is a big thing to do.
Screw it together.
Oh, when he pushes the two vampires out of the window and they all turn in, they both
turn the ash on the way down when he's landing.
That was awesome.
There's just some bad, some badass shit.
And I wrote badass in my note.
Truth Blood.
Oh, when they both jump out of the hole because they throw in all the barrels with the fire
and shit and they just like, all right, we got to go and we both jump out and start.
That was fun.
Good wire work.
Bill, my sword fight.
All the vampires that voted I and the council all had very sassy ways of saying I, which
I really like.
I really like took that one line of I like seriously.
They're like, I, I, I don't like you.
So you're getting executed.
So I, I.
Yeah, sword through the mouth of Bill Nye.
That was pretty metal, but ineffective.
Yeah.
And then the classic prequel line.
This is just the beginning.
That's what you're going to come on.
OK, OK, booby.
I actually did take notes.
I'm realizing.
A couple standout notes for me is early on in the movie, we just see a baby dick.
OK, let's OK, this is this is good because I want to read this audience review of that,
which I was questioning my sanity when I saw that.
I was like, wait a minute, was that a baby dick?
Not only that, Brandon.
Here let me let me read this review.
OK, I'm so excited.
Damn it.
Where'd it go?
Shit.
Oh, I lost it.
I'm going to find it.
But I just want to have the review.
Oh, no.
It's OK.
Here, here, here.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Sorry, everybody.
OK, here we go.
From Wood, two stars.
This is not a audience favorite review, but I was just a worthwhile one because I, I, that
was the beginning of the movie and I was like, something's not right here.
And Wood says, I shit you not, a mere minute and 20 seconds in the film, there is a computer
generated baby dick.
They didn't want to get into the Nirvana problem of it all.
Like fucking, you know, like how that baby how that guy tried to sue fucking whatever
people represent the estate of Nirvana for him being naked baby in that in an album cover.
It's like, I don't know, but it was just such a weird thing.
I'm just like, what?
And he goes on to say, can you imagine your first job out of visual effects school?
You think, cool, I'm on underworld.
That will have a lot of interesting effects.
Then they drop the bomb on you that you will be the baby dick animator.
He goes on to say, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I prefer my vampire werewolves and werewolves
in a medieval setting rather than his matrix future style of the other entries.
Now I don't think this is very good, but it's completely the Bill Nye and Bill and Michael
Sheen show.
Oh, we need to have the Hollywood Boulevard, Quebec and say, look like it would have been
fine with just nine and sheen screaming at each other for 90 minutes.
The werewolf girls are tremendously violent and awesome, but I assume that took up most
of the budget because I've seen kids on YouTube with more convincing green screens.
But that I don't, I was like, I wanted, I wanted to know for sure, but I also didn't
want to research it too much.
Absolutely not.
But it was such a weird thing.
It was like, it was like, it was like that portion of the thing.
Yes.
Very generous.
Michael Sheen's like, you know, help me out.
Even baby Michael Sheen, you know, I want to like an American sniper or whatever, how
weird that was.
Cause they did a CG baby.
Cause they didn't, I know Clint Eastwood didn't want to deal with a real baby on set.
I thought it'd just be easier in post and it looks fucking weird.
Or is it doll or combination of both?
It's the whole baby.
Or you do like the Twilight baby, which looks like a fucking nightmare fuel, but just that
one portion was so strange.
It was so strange.
Put a fucking blankie on the baby, man.
I just put it in some swaddling cloth.
Does why even go through all of that?
You know why I call me old fashioned, but I don't want baby dicks in my movies.
Whatever it's fine.
If it's just a baby, but why go through post post a fucking, that feels even weirder.
Yeah, it's a baby, whatever it's, it's dude who cares, but to go through and into, into
CG, you don't have to, but whatever it's a fucking baby.
But like to go in there and change it, that feels weirder than just to have, yeah, just,
I don't know.
Or just get a blankie.
Get up some swaddling cloth.
Yeah.
So fucking bizarre.
That said, let's check out what the audience loved about it.
Five stars from Zoe.
She also reviewed a past underworld movie of ours.
So it's good to see her back.
She's the one who, and I'll do it again.
Everybody say it with me.
Lucian and Sonya deserve better.
Fucking hell.
This movie messed me up, man.
I have so many thoughts.
Here we go.
One, Michael Sheen hot.
Two, Lucian hot.
Same person, but okay.
Three, Sonya hot.
Four, what the fuck is wrong with Victor?
I'm so upset.
Five, this song is called I'm sad.
So very, very sad.
So sad.
Six, you know, like I'm genuinely sad.
This movie made me cry and I'm upset.
Seven, I know I said it earlier, but God, Lucian deserves so much better.
He's such a tragic character and he breaks my heart.
I just want to wrap him up in a blanket and tell him everything will be okay.
Eight, there's a severe lack of Lucian fix on AO3.
Y'all better get to work because I need more content.
Just saying, especially fix it fix.
Please spare.
I need it.
Fan fix.
She wants those fanfics.
Number nine, why are all my favorite ships forbidden love slash star cross lovers?
I hate it here.
Romeo and Juliet walks all my favorite ships, especially these two fuck could run.
Also why does Michael Sheen only know how to play tragic characters?
I hate it here times two.
Okay, that's lit.
Rally it.
Thank you for coming to my tet doc.
Wow, that was fantastic.
She's great.
Thank you.
Zoe Zoe on a letter box.
Thank you again.
Says gave it five stars and just says Michael Sheen fucks.
Shy heme of the dead.
One of the best origin stories for a fantasy horror action franchise.
Five stars.
We got a wet Q three three F. I would five stars.
I would let Lucian throw me off a building, step on me, kick me, spit on me, run me over
and drown me.
Wow.
Okay.
All right.
And that said, that's the whole review.
That's a review.
Alistair man blaze five stars.
Okay.
This is epic.
Lord of the Rings, but for goth girls unironically like it more than the original, much more
varied and interesting.
I'm surely with Lucian gang.
God, letterbox.
You're the best.
Letterbox is the best.
Hannah driver five stars.
This is one of the best one out of these underworld thingies.
Please Michael Sheen's perfect deliver of pain and hot at the same time is incredible.
Love that for me.
We'll do one more from just happy to see you five stars.
I unabashedly love this entry.
Michael Sheen being all dirty and feral is a core tenant of my sexuality.
So pretty much all these are just like, yeah, thirsty for she thirsty for she.
This is a like sexual awakening.
I mean, it's a thirst.
It's a yeah, it's a thirst trap movie, right?
You know, the thirst trap performance, the originals are too with Kate Beckinsay.
You just get, yeah, totally.
You know, you get to gaze on Sheen instead of Beckinsay.
The roles are.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I guess the polarization, it's interesting to see it rise in esteem a little
bit from the critics and you can see them kind of reference the different director and
and you know, it being a straightforward medieval tale or whatever.
But they're just so out on this franchise.
There's no way, you know, it's I don't think they're, you know, it's clear you're not going
to ever win them completely back.
And the audience is still here for it.
And some of those reviews are people saying this is their favorite.
So you know, out of the three that have come out thus far within this franchise.
So it's interesting.
I mean, it almost feels like even within the audience, it is almost polarized a little
bit too.
And spoiler alert, it's also my favorite.
But yeah, well, why don't you give your your final final thoughts and your rating all Brandini
meant?
Yeah, I think this movie this movie understands that what's great about the series the most.
Yeah, almost everything is better in this movie than the two before it.
It's I guess I would say it's not like so much better, but it's it's better.
It's noticeably better.
And yeah, it's almost every way.
So for me, I'm going to give this movie an 81 percent.
Fuck yeah, dude.
I was awesome.
Yeah, I agree with all of that.
And it's what's frustrating is, as I said earlier about the other movies, there's such
potential with them.
I appreciate, you know, whatever matrix stylings that they're trying to do.
But their ability to provide exposition and give you this world where so much lore in
it is, yeah, is more haphazard and difficult to work within those little bits of exposition
dumps that they do give.
And I was extremely frustrated by some of the stuff in the second one where I was so
excited about the possibilities.
And instead of giving my mind more things, more things to like imagine and come up with
what could be possible, they felt more limiting in a way that was frustrating when it's supposed
to be furthering something ahead.
And this one, it's OK because it's the past and they're filling in the blanks and those
limitations make it better.
And then you get my favorite guys back in it and they're doing everything that I wanted
them to do.
The first one at each other, there's a fair amount of them in scenes together and it's
an hour and a half and it's the most concentrated version of Vampires versus Werewolves thus
far in a way that's the battles and the action is easier to digest than the first one.
It was just like groups of guys running at each other shooting.
It just didn't translate that well.
When you see like a fucking army storming a castle, my mind, it just lights up a little
bit more of like, oh, cool.
Oh, well, I can follow everything and there's still plenty of practical effects.
And then the change in direction worked well because it looked better and was more restrained
with those expository moments where I think one wise man is so preoccupied with all the
little details and forcing them down your throat in an unnatural sort of way, much like,
you know, the very tail end it kind of taxing on.
So yeah, I'm trying to so charting my course, I think it was a 72 for the first one and
like a 65 for the second one.
This one I'll go right up to an 80.
I'll do a 79.
This one's a lot of fun.
It's a lot of fun.
And if you're looking for a vampire werewolf movie, you don't even need to see the other
ones.
I didn't.
And now coming back to it, it is cool.
And I'm still strangely excited for our next underworld movie.
But this one is a it's kind of peak so far.
And a lot of that has to do with Michael Sheen and Bill Nye.
And you know, and they are in the first one.
And it's just there's so much more happening in that one.
And you got your Scott Speedman of it all.
This one, there's just nobody that's like a weak link.
Everyone is is having fun as including me.
And the trilogy of the underworld movies, I believe, was what they originally planned.
But it was successful enough for them to continue to flesh it out and keep going, regardless
of how polarizing the scores are, which have been for three movies straight.
So we will be concluding our polarizing underworld series with the next one, Underworld Awakening.
And then we will decide, Brandon, just to put it out there, there is one more that is
just a little more poopy doopy snoopy across the board.
But we could do a bonus app if we feel the need to really finish out the underworld series.
Or we just do that.
Don't tell anybody about it.
For now, we will be doing Underworld Awakening three years later, January 20th, 2012.
It came out.
It's another 90 minute fantasy action horror movie.
The critics gave it a 25 percent.
The audience gave it a 62 percent.
So we will be jumping back into that.
It's one down from Rise of the Lycans for the audience, which was a 63.
And then for the critics, it's gone from a 30 percent for Rise of the Lycans to a 25
percent for Underworld Awakening.
Let's hear this little on premise because I'm curious as well.
In the years since she and her human Lycan lover, Michael, defeated Elder Marcus, vampire
warrior Selene, get back in sale, has been taken captive by humans while they waged an
all out war against both Lycans and vampires.
Playing after awakening after more than a decade, Selene discovers that Michael is dead.
Oh, shit.
But that she is giving birth to his daughter Eve shunned by nearly all surviving vampires.
Save one Theo James.
Even Selene seems powerless against her latest opponent, a genetically enhanced Lycan.
Have you seen this one?
No, I haven't.
It's just so crazy that we're going to be dealing with genetically enhanced Lycans.
It's out of nowhere discovering that your lover with your child is just dead.
And yeah, and pregnant.
That's a lot.
That's a whole soap opera.
And it coming out in 2012.
I don't think a lot of good movies came out in 2012, James.
Let's look up best movies of 2012 now.
Yeah.
Or we can save it for next step.
But no, it's everybody's favorite segment on the podcast where we just Google.
Just lots of gooks.
We got Django Unchained, The Dark Knight Rises, The Master, Skyfall, Moonlight's Kingdom.
Great movies.
Pretty good.
OK, I took it back.
OK.
Life of Pi, Hobbit, Unexpected Journey, Flight.
So this is the time period we're stepping into.
Argo, fuck yourself.
Prometheus, Silver Linings Playbook, Lincoln.
Yeah.
OK.
Well, this this is bringing me back seven psychopaths.
Definitely bringing me back to a place in time.
Perks of being a wallflower.
Anna Karenina, Cloud Atlas, Cloud Atlas, Brandon, Les Biz, The Avengers.
Wow.
What a beginning to the rest of our lives.
Paranorman and Frankenweenie.
Would you look at that?
This is a fun segment.
I'm just going to look at this movie.
So this movie is going to be good then.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what that means.
This has been a fucking blast.
I'm glad we've worked through a trilogy of a series of movies.
It's I don't know, pretty special within our parameters of our podcast to work through
a long, you know, series of whole franchise.
Because all of our movies can be very different from one another, which is, I don't know,
one of my favorite parts of this podcast.
But then we also have the opportunity to find a fucking series that is polarizing.
I guess the last one was Pirates of the Caribbean.
We did a series of those movies.
Having more fun on this one than that one.
I agree.
That's another one where like the rules and lore got a little bogged down and all the
bullshit.
Because, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, so pirate action, pirate
fun.
But, you know, there's certain ones that just get right into the vein, you know, much like
the vampires.
And this one does that for me.
This podcast is it for me.
This co-host with the co-most is the mandini, the brandini, Brandon Manhattan.
Back at it again.
Much appreciated, brother, for another great app.
Yes.
Yes, brother.
If you guys have enjoyed yourself, please join us next time for Underworld Awakening.
Catch us live on twitch.tv slash PolarizePod.
We're streaming live.
This is a Saturday morning cozy.
Maybe you'll catch us for one of those.
I think we'll yeah, I'm going to start streaming live on YouTube.
I think soon as well.
You can find our YouTube PolarizePod on there as well if you want to listen to podcasts
that way.
And rate, review, subscribe on Apple Podcasts.
Send us a line at gmail.com slash Polarize the pod, Polarize the pod at gmail.com.
We appreciate you all and awaken with us next time on Underworld, the series.
Love you.
Bye.