Hello and welcome to another episode of Polarize Podcast.
I'm your host, James.
Welcome back, everybody.
Welcome any newcomers.
This is the podcast about polarizing movies, the movies that audiences and critics disagree
on according to Round Tomatoes.
Sometimes the audiences love it.
Sometimes the critics hate it.
Or vice versa.
Those are the movies that we love to talk about.
Today is a special episode.
It's our second Airnarski movie that we've covered.
It's The Fountain.
It is starring Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss.
If you haven't seen it, that's those are the basics.
It came out, what was the year that this bad boy came out?
2006, November 22nd.
Drama, mystery and thriller, romance, sci-fi.
Those are all that are listed there on the Round Tomatoes and I'd say it is true.
The premise is a man travels through time on a quest for immortality and to save the
woman he loves.
As a 16th century conquistador, Tomas searches for the legendary found of youth.
As a present day scientist, he desperately struggles to cure the cancer that is killing
his wife.
Finally, as a 26th century astronaut in deep space, Tom begins to grasp the mysteries of
life, love and death.
And here folks, I can't tell you how happy I am joining you on this episode.
But nothing makes me happier than introducing you to my conquistador, the Great Brandini.
Dude, oh, I am happy to be your conquistador on this episode.
Brandini, the Great Conquistador.
Yes, the Brandini d'estador.
You must finish my book.
Finish my book, please.
Finish my book, Brandini.
My conquistador.
Man.
That is miter than the sword.
I am excited about this.
I'm a big, big excited energy coming from me on this because big, excited.
Big excited energy.
This is kind of a special movie.
Is it not?
I got that sense from you.
This is your birthday choice.
Yeah, let's get let's come out and say that your birthday has already happened.
But nonetheless, this was the choice for it.
And this is a movie that has been recommended to me by many of friends of mine that I respect
their movie opinions.
I had very casually watched it once before, but remember almost nothing of it.
And now upon, you know, this viewing with more of a I'm sitting down really paying
attention.
I'm taking it all in.
What a movie it is.
And I'm excited to talk to you about it, man.
Me too.
That's good to hear that you've had people tell you about it because I can't say I know
many people that, yeah, that hold this one in high regard or remember it.
You know, Aaron off, you of course is a famed director and has done a lot of interesting
things for for good or bad, depending on your taste, whatever it may be.
But whatever he does are big swings.
And this one was early enough in his career where it hit me at a time where I was, you
know, trying to get into like requiem for a dream and memento and stuff for the kind
of the movies that I was looking at these at those directors.
And of course, Aaron Nowski and Nolan and stuff just kind of like, oh, I can't wait
to see more of the movies that these guys do.
And this one was a, I think, slow burn for me in terms of how much I loved and enjoyed
it because I think the first time I watched it.
I had this habit of like, I didn't have a TV memory, but I have my laptop and like late
at night, if I couldn't sleep or something, I just kind of like laying in my bed and watching
a laptop, you know, the way that Aaron Nowski, I'm sure would have wanted to see it, of course,
just ripped from some fucking website.
And then I liked it enough that, and this is another thing of our time, I had an iPod
video that I figured out before streaming and whatnot that I could down illegally download
movies and then put them on my video iPod, which was like an 80 gigs on bitch.
They held a lot of shit.
And then you could hook it up to the TV via HDMI.
There was like an HDMI like a plug in for the iPod where you hooked into the iPod and
then you could plug it into a TV.
So when I was walking around with my iPod, not only did I have music that I could show
people, I'd be like, Hey, I have like five of my favorite movies on my iPod and I would
be going vacation or something and I'd bring the cord and stuff and I could just throw it
on.
And this was one of those movies I think I downloaded and kind of would revisit and it
has grown in esteem for me over the years greatly and it has in a way like morphed the
same way that I've grown.
I feel like I look at the movies differently as I've grown older and stuff and that the
movie is about these, these timeless things of humanity that we're constantly dealing
with of life and death and whatnot.
I feel like those things and how I look at them has changed over the years too.
So I would look at this movie as well.
And I think that's a mark of an important movie in one's life is being able to rewatch
it and get something new out of it each time.
And I think I do.
And it's been a minute since I've seen it, but I have seen it so many times that it was
able to just kind of wash over me in such a pleasant way that was like, it's been a while
but I can still kind of cite every scene and just take it in.
But so you you watched it casually and then you had some friends kind of.
Yeah, because it was.
Mm hmm.
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, it was more so my friends were telling me to watch it to the point of somebody must
have put it on when I was living with a lot of people and.
Oh, you had someone like me.
Someone like me.
Oh, I brought my iPod in this cable.
Here you go.
Because this is definitely a college movie for me.
Like I didn't watch it when it came out.
It wasn't until like a couple years later, not too far after because yeah, like I would
love to spend a lot of time on Darren Aronofsky just as a whole because I think having now
seen this movie, it colors my opinion about him or it adds a lot more context to him.
That was it's similar to we, you know, I just recently watched.
Magnolia and to.
See a movie from a director that I really like by and large, but that's a blind spot
for me.
So then for light to be shed on this, you know, another movie in their filmography to
then provide some interesting context and just color the overall or provide depth into
my understanding of the directors that I love because yeah, again, like you mentioned is
Darren Aronofsky, I feel like is one of our guys for our generation where he made some
really important movies that.
They and just by and large, like you said, you know, Christopher Nolan or P.T. Anderson
or whatever.
These people, these directors have made movies that really.
I don't know, like.
Brought something to my experience that I was like, oh, this is I haven't seen a lot
of movies like this and it's so interesting how they're tackling this subject matter or
providing this perspective on life.
And yeah, it's, you know, for me with Darren Aronofsky, it's definitely a requiem for a
dream was the first outing for me because it was one of those movies when it came out.
It was such a huge deal because it's so are and so gritty and so raw.
So at the time that it came out, you know, I getting into movies, I was starved for
something beyond the more popular things and something very artsy and a requiem for a dream.
Especially what you will about that movie, but it is very.
Yeah, I don't know.
It just very powerful.
It has what it what it's tackling and that is really interesting, especially.
Yeah, when it came out when I first thought I was like, wow, this is this is something.
Yeah, I'm really interested in and I love this is such a creative director and that
movie, whatever you say about the subject, the content of it, his his ability to edit,
direct and construct an artistic visual language within his movie is apparent immediately.
And like, it's been a long time since I've seen pie, but requiem for a dream for sure
is as I started there and maybe went back to and watch pie once.
But don't remember really much about it.
But requiem for a dream is not something that yeah, it's the whole thing with that movie
or it says like, you know, you don't want to watch that movie again.
Definitely worth seeing, but it is rough, but you can see so many bold swings in a practical
sense in that in that movie, especially, you know, a lot of a lot of the camera work, whether
it's when they're taking drugs and the quick edits, the refrigerator, the, you know, when
it's Marlon Wayne's right when he's running and the shaky cam that's or like that's harnessed
on to him and then the cam cameras are in front of him.
So you just see hit that interesting point of view and the Ellen Bernstein's performance
with that refrigerators and shooter McAvon and all that stuff is like harrowing and so
frightening in such a way.
And so it makes such a mark on you that you know, you never really forget it.
And I mean, this movie has that effect on me too.
I've seen it more times and other other movies of his too.
But the movies, his movies have a way of really making a mark on you for, yeah, and for better
or worse.
And this one, I believe when I was thinking about it, kind of goes into the camp of, yeah,
Noah and mother, I guess, would be the more religious kind of kind of ones that are, yeah,
like that are dealing with Christianity directly, of course, his mother and Old Testament and
everything and more so than I guess in anything, not Christian, but it's way more Old Testament.
So yeah, where he's coming from.
Yeah.
Very biblical nonetheless.
So that's why the comparison to Noah is obviously, you know, an easy connection.
But you know, what's interesting now, like, I don't know, maybe I did know this at a point,
but I reacquainted myself with Darren Aronofsky for this movie is that he's an atheist.
So it's really kind of now knowing that makes more sense because the way that he approaches
and he often does, like you said, biblical themes and how religion.
Yeah, like he's mythological.
He's making it a myth and the modern myth of, you know, of that faith and telling his
own tale within it the same way that myths have been told over and over again by different
people and it's changed.
And that was something that I was a little more resistant to Noah, but that one ended
up being better in our esteem than we expected.
Not a perfect movie and it is batshit in a lot of ways, but it's like he is taking that
big swing and he knows exactly in his head how he wants to do it.
And it's impressive to see even if it is something like Mother where you're like, this is something
that is so far out of its own ass in a lot of ways and pretentious, which I think comes
with the territory with him.
That it's unattainable.
Like it's I can't I don't want to touch it with like a thirty nine and a half football
because it's just it's it's too far above my head as it's as it thinks it is.
Then I'm like, I don't even want to engage or meet you halfway because you're so far,
you know, up your own ass.
I don't want to go up there either with you, but it is worth seeing that movie and this
one as I've gotten older, it gets close closer to that, but then it never really gets.
I was going to say, yeah, never gets there for me because maybe I have such a history
with it, but I know it definitely has those melodramatic and kind of kind of kind of moments
that that are up its own ass.
But the way that it is more not completely, but it's a little bit more vague and then
multi-interpretational, maybe not purposeful either completely with that.
But that helps me engage with it more rather than mother that's like, yeah, and this is
like this part.
It's such straight allegory of like, this is what this part is in the Bible and this
is Cane and Abel and then all the house or everyone's taken apart on Mother Earth is
upset.
And it's just kind of hitting you over the head with it.
And this one is such a more feelings based sort of sort of thing for me.
And yeah, I can ramble on and on.
This is going to be one of those episodes.
We're off to catch myself because yeah, I do enjoy this movie a lot.
But my thoughts, even forming them, I find incomplete sometimes because I look at it
at a new way and I like that it's not, it doesn't really have all the answers there.
It has the general ones, but everything else is kind of you're just kind of along along
for the ride.
But anyways, that's good that you recognize that because I think that why I'm so excited
and to talk to you about this is because this viewing for me, I was left with, I understand
that there's these big ideas that are getting played, but I the more often than not, it's
positing these ideas and whether or not I more often than not, for me, I don't think
that it gets deep into it.
It just goes, isn't this an interesting idea?
But to that point, though, upon reading reviews and looking at how people online have commented
and just really love this movie, it's it's it's quite something to go on YouTube and
watch.
You know, Darren talk about it.
Other YouTubers talk about this movie and dissect and whatnot.
And the comment section is like, this is my favorite movie.
This movie has helped me.
If you think this movie is boring, you just don't get it.
And there's such a fervent, you know, cult following behind this movie, which goes, I
would assume to goes with a lot of his movies because he posits some really interesting
ideas that I think it does benefit a bit.
I'll give it some credit that it does benefit a bit by being so not like non specific.
Or not getting to in the weeds on something and just going like, here is this idea and
then allowing the, you know, the viewer to connect with it in whichever way they want
to meet the film at.
Or however, it makes sense to them, which is really fascinating because.
Again, it just, I don't know, I see the pros and the cons of that, of it is good that you
have something maybe so universal of an idea or so interesting of an idea that people can
relate to it however they want to.
But then again, it's hard for me to really understand his point of view on some of this
stuff because I just feel like he is in this movie in particular because there are other
movies and I want to talk to continue to talk about Darren Aronofsky about these things
that he works with because again, just like with this movie, he has there just such a.
He has a well of ideas that he continues to work through in each one of his movies that
share a lot of commonality, you know, because I can easily make connections between the
fountain and even something like Black Swan or the rest.
Lurie, even though they're not as biblical as mother or Noah, I think there is also
something a part of this movie, you know, especially the.
The drive of Hugh Jackman to want to solve problems or this idea of.
Fixing things, this idea of death is also present in the wrestler, for example, you
know, I was thinking about it in relation to like trying to make connections to this
with this movie to that because they are arguably pretty different because of the rest are being
so so grounded in reality.
I saw this in the wrestler there.
The main themes of that is this idea of getting older and coming to terms with reality and
losing your, you know, your faculties, your body and then relationships and how important
those are.
And then that relationship, you know, sounds like the whale as well.
I haven't seen the whale.
I've just weirdly been like, I don't know if I want to see this movie.
Understandable.
You know, just because also too, it's the requiem for a dream of it all where he is
very capable of.
Getting into really gross parts of the human psyche and presenting that to you or having
a pretty pessimistic view on humans as a whole.
And I think a lot of that too comes out in his really like.
Kind of crusader ish attitude about the planet and how if you were to ask him, I feel like
he would say human beings are ruining the planet and we need to do something about it.
And this idea that human beings are so flawed, so self interested and so destructive because
I mean, that's again, when you think about Black Swan, when you think about requiem for
a dream, it really hones in on how society offers all of these ills and we as humans
get, you know, like kind of destroy ourselves in these pursuits and whether they're noble
pursuits or not is always relatively vague, which is an, you know, a credit to him because
that also goes into the found where it.
He operates a little bit and being vague because he, you know, it's because he's way more interested
in these bigger concepts more often than not, but he's also very capable of bringing that
down to the ground and going like, you know, like in the fountain, this idea of I have
the ability to change things and just really destroying yourself in this pursuit of trying
to fix things and fix the world and yeah, it's just, you see that a lot in all of his
movies and so again, I just all leave this and say like his prose and his movies are
very, very interesting.
And like you said with mother is, is that when you talk about critically, you know,
reviewing each one of his movies, I think it's, it comes, a lot of it comes down to
the success of whether or not he makes it, he provides enough depth, provides enough
of like really how he feels about it as opposed to just this is what this concept is and just
presenting it to you to take it however you want, you know, and yeah, I don't know.
It just, I found myself with this movie having somewhat of a hard time because of the fact
that it isn't really interested in more of like Hugh Jackman and his this idea of why
he is so like I weirdly enough, I feel like I need more about why he is so hell bent on
not just that this is the weird part, it's not just saving her, but where does that come
from for him outside of I guess just the general idea of like all of us are afraid of death
or all of us are afraid of loss like what I really wanted a lot more of what his what
is driving him to have these reactions to the situation that we're presented in the
movie.
Yeah.
I think.
Yeah, it was a lot, a lot to take in.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
I think a lot of his characters, obviously, they're the protagonists to have an obsessive
quality to them.
And I think the themes beyond that he chooses for different movies and there's there's drug
use, there's mathematical equations, there's building an arc and hearing God and saving
people that way and and having like one focus despite whatever one's telling you, there's
you know, obesity, there's being number one ballerina in the show and and jealousy and
the rest of the arts like being a leaving a legacy and being obsessed a little bit about
that of like writing your wrongs and that's I mean that's substance use as well and and
trying to it's almost like half-hassing the 12th program or something a little bit in
that we're just trying to make amends before and and accepting.
Yeah, that movie is extremely dark as with the whale and everything and I think there
is this shining light of humanity as well.
I think a lot of it is showing the darkness for sure.
The difference with this movie, I'll say, I think there is a lot of familial drama between
people in his movies.
The one with the I think the difference with this one, I think that is successful for me
is the romantic relationship between Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss and that goes a long way
for me in terms of maybe what you're talking about of not having enough for this obsessive
quality of trying to stop his his wife from dying and it is maybe a little convenient
that he is working on this exact thing in the science lab and but a lot of it plays
like a like a fable or like a fairy tale or something for me because those kind of convenient
melodramatic things of him like I got to get back to the lab and work on a cure sort of
thing is so cut and dry and straightforward that it does kind of lend itself to their
performances and their chemistry and them having one on one time together, which I just find
this movie shines in those moments so much and that's when I feel emotional and I care
about the characters the most in those moments but it is very much like you always work too
much and you need to embrace the moments and that to me like while he has a hard time with
that and overall you know beat some self up over and over there is like an optimism in
this movie of or at least the driving home part of it is like embracing those moments
and trying and not try to rally against what's inevitable and what is going to happen whether
you like it or not.
It comes to a head and I know I like that we're kind of just going kind of broad with
this movie because yeah this movie still works like almost 100% of the time for me I think
it comes to a head with me where it almost is there's a little bit of friction for me
and like much later watches is the funeral where he very bluntly says like there is a
cure for death and like we're and I got to find it just like anything death is a disease
that's a little that was like in more recent watchings that's where that gets a little
bit too much for me as great as I think Hugh Jackman delivers all of his lines even even
one like that.
100%
That's where it's like there's that's where it starts to veer on the like oh I can't I
can't meet you halfway on that idea but in order for the you know the futuristic side
of the bubble and the tree and all that to exist that's almost like where his mind would
have to be and for it to like in like whatever 26th century like and that's what he's you
know and like that that that is so far out it is almost like a fairy tale and to actually
think of that as a I like to think of it like straight as a reality if he did defeat death
and he is in this bubble with her tree form and going to Shibuoba like it's such a such
such a weird romantic surrealistic thing there and then like the connection with the the
book and the conquistador I think a lot of people maybe would have issues with that those
three things all like all over the place because I get a lot more out of it each time I try
I see those connections between those three three facets of the story and if it was just
the reality of what's actually happening in the modern age of just his wife dying from
cancer him not able to accept it and trying to find a cure that would be such a dark depressing
movie that I couldn't find myself wanting to watch as much as I have had watched the
reason it does work for me is like as I've been saying is like it's creating a myth out
of their life like she is writing this this book and and creating a myth and and and romanticizing
their relationship and their life in this like yeah and the old Spanish inquisition
which is a funny interesting and it's and having that and then having him finish the
story and the metatextual elements of that within the movie not not outside and our
own you know breaking the fourth wall sort of thing but breaking a wall within the movie of
the way the story ends is how he makes it and you know like I just I love all that kind of
play with within it and it does come across as like high level art student a lot of this stuff
where he's not concerned with connecting those dots so tightly but he wants to create a visual
tapestry for you to kind of sink your teeth into along with the fantastic music but all of that
stuff goes so far for me I imagine a lot of the people that are polarized positively towards this
but I could also see that people being just like this is why are we jumping so much in between
all this and what does this other other stuff mean and uh any of you who do know what it means
like why do I care sort of thing but were you frustrated at all with jumping between all those
yes yeah yeah I was I was frustrated because especially with the what is it it's in what year
the future version we'll just call him the space I think in that little synopsis on round tomatoes
are right at the beginning it said like 26th century or something like that gotcha that stuff
ended up bugging me quite a bit um I could see that bugging a lot of people yeah because
especially the way that it ends it really isn't necessary in in my mind if I could just
just kind of do a little rewrite if I if I were to approach this if I this is what would have made
it better for me is the fact that he ends up completing the story love that motif of him
reconciling with this loss by him finishing her story love love love that idea but you also get
quite a bit of resolution and I'm really kind of okay with how the conquistador side ends
in communicating the broader thesis and all of the space travel stuff is way too heady and makes
it very confusing at times where because it wasn't clear at all that he's a the same person as his
present the present version of them and be that it's a spaceship that's traveling like none of that
really is clear so the fact that the conquistador timeline resolves in the same
like point I just honestly I could say do without the future version of him and just keep it present
and conquistador because again as a big swamp thing fan of the comic series it deals so much in
this idea that I really love and take to heart and view the world a little bit in this way is
I think because I'm an atheist as well this idea of the afterlife is you going back into like you
going back into the end of the cycle you be like the way that the movie communicates the end of his
of the conquistador timeline is that actually the fountain of you this you returning to the earth
which then is you living forever because the earth continues to live on after you and that idea is
really great but all of the more Buddhist leaning future stuff is really I don't yeah it just I didn't
love it I I really didn't I think you could have achieved the same effect by just having the present
and the and the conquistador story because also to how strongly those are linked and the future
version has so little connection like actual connection you know because like what I mean is
the conquistador story is written by Rachel wise in a story so that has a clear connection to the
present the future version doesn't it is all just self-serving of this self-actualization message
that the movie is trafficking in because what it's okay I'm gonna just pause at what I think
she talks about Shubhoba she does which yes she does you know but yeah um I don't know if she
was thinking that bubble man is gonna travel with tree spaceship tubes you know it's that's yeah um
um anyways yeah I love how that comes to fruition and it is like heady is a great way to put it
and it is like and it is asking a lot I think of of the audience but the visual payoff and the and
the cut cuts to that are I don't know it is a for a come to fruition of if you succeed yeah if you
succeed in defeating death and this is this is what you're left with is such a far out concept in
Aronofsky's head and the visual way that he's going to sell it uh is weird and is weird I'm sure
for a lot of people and when it and when it escalates at the end of him you know going into his
pose and opening his third eye and blasting off into Shubhoba is probably where a lot of people are
like what is I just saw a man I just saw a man drinking tree sap and turned into bushes and now
I'm seeing a man like launched into the into a dying star but I just think it's uh yeah just a
strangely obscurely beautiful in in a in a way that I can understand is is pretentious as as well
like as with a lot of his things and and and knowing what you sign up for for one of his movies
but I just find it yeah I find it so beautiful when the they talk about death being the road to
awe and love that and like the end of that and him seeing you know the hairs on the tree and
then understanding like he's gonna die now going to the going to Shubhoba with the with her and
everything is like it doesn't it doesn't meet you halfway in that sense either where it's like
helping you a lot with understanding maybe what's happening or why this is important or
already even how it connects uh to the modern Hugh Jackman that all that stuff is is extremely
visual because the way this movie begins as well is like already you're you're going into it as
it's already happening especially the conquistador is like a key part is kind of the climax of the
movie is where you're starting and the conquistador storyline is like them actually finding it for
the first time approaching him seeing the the sort of flaming sword but that whole transition with
him being bald in the office and then having hair and that constant mirroring of that scene
tells you a little clue at least of of something and then the pen you know and tattooing and
and all that stuff and planning planning the tree and him everyone like constantly looking up at
at Shubhoba but uh the the payoff for that I can completely understand not being for everybody
I completely get it the book the book thing is like almost like a classic like that's just a
like that could be in a romantic drama as well just that storyline of called you know of her
dying writing a story and leaving the husband like you could have Nicholas Sparks write that and
get in a completely different fucking way but this is what this is what makes it high art Brandon
this is what makes it high art and that but that's what I'm in conflict with because
is while I was watching the movie I was constantly like high fart the it's high farting it's the plot
of this is getting so it's getting so uh the plot doesn't matter it's moving so far away from a
linear plot and it's getting so into just concepts that I really ended up being frustrated with it
because of again it is it is so clearly idea over any semblance of trying to make this functional
you know yes it very much has like a blank check feeling to it where these are ideas that I'm
wrestling with I don't really give a damn whether or not this makes sense from a plotting standpoint
I just want to present these very strong visuals which I'll agree that the future version of
Hugh Jackman all of that stuff visually is very very cool looks so cool looks very cool but it's
served so little of the plotting to me that I constantly was like I don't know if I love this
I I get what it's doing but I don't know if I love this because of the fact that it's so it's so
about the idea and has very little regard for this character or the characters in the story as a whole
you know moving from point A to point B it's weird to say because typically yeah I feel like
when this movie came out it probably would have hit me harder because I was more of the mindset
as a younger person that I'm presented with very heady concepts and respecting that more so than
the alternative which is so linear so formulaic and and and really despising that to a degree because
I'm like this is such a trider so uh you know uh yeah it's such a stereotypical story but I wasn't
crazy about the tree thing like the him turning into bushes the first time I saw it I was like oh
this white tree sap oh he's turning a bit whoa I was just so caught off guard I wasn't sure I wasn't
sure how to feel about it I should say I wasn't sure if I didn't like I was just like whoa I did
not expect that then that whole ending like last 15 minutes it's just kind of like whoa and this is
kind of the Clint Mansell music I really got to bring up again is something that drives the movie in
a lot of the like the ways that Requiem for a Dream that his famous motif kind of Requiem song
and that movie is built so much in that third act and that final climactic moment of Requiem that
this in a way echoes that that same arc of of the of the score in the in the movie I feel like there
were ways that he would use different sonic qualities depending on if he was in the future world
or if he was in Conquistorland maybe a little bit I felt like a little bit more strings and a little
bit more synth and the future stuff but I don't know it was tough to say I just that that final
you know sweet whatever you would call in that in the in the song when everything is is really
transcending and ascending and coalescing and and and flowering and all that stuff is is something
that blinds me maybe from worrying about some of those things where I'm just I'm so emotionally
caught up in the visual aspect of it and really enjoy it just as as a visual sort of thing to
live in I feel like I live in this movie when I when I'm in it and somehow it's a strange thing
we're like it's an hour and a half long and in a and in a way that I don't think is bad it feels
longer and I like that it's it feels very densely packed to me it feels like every everything kind
of matters in the movie to me I feel like there isn't any sort of space that like I feel like
everything is important to me in the movie and I mean that's just someone who's seen it enough that
it's like oh this scene oh I love this you know as the movie's going on it's and the visual parallels
that he's able to do with the camera is something that regardless of whatever movie he's making is
just he's such he's so good with the fucking camera and I love the practical effects of the
snow on the when he looks at the the ceiling and having that be shebola having that be them
thing that they look into the microscope of that's how it looks in the microscope from oh give me
that sample from South America oh yeah Central America oh yeah that's where it's a little it's
you know it's a little hooky yeah I get it there's a lot of that I would love to now take this time
now that you presented it to oh finish your point I'm sorry oh that's it yeah like that those that's
all just like the visual the visual parallels are so cool such interesting fun creative ways of
doing the movie I think I think the lighting is is is really great I love the one just a few of the
shots I mean the when he's walking into the apartment it it so close it closes in on a
picture that's in a frame on the wall and it's playing on this background jungle noise and
you think it's going into conquistador land but then it zooms out and it's the apartment
that they live in or the house and he walks in and yeah like that that kind of stuff is
kind of stuff is it's so satisfying to me it's very satisfying I mean I love as well but yeah I had
a feeling that this is how this conversation would go to is that I had that you were going to
with history of it be able to accept a lot of the
themes of it over the logistics of it yeah and it's one of those for and yeah and for me I had a hard time
not thinking about the logistics of it you get the plot location so on and so forth because
yeah this movie is so sparse and I and the reason of it is reading about it is so
originally this was going to be a much bigger movie it was going to have like more like
conquistador battles way more blank check way more blank check you're going to get the
Benjamin Button cast you're going to get Brad Pitt and Kate Brunchett and Brunchett oh man
what a man Brad Pitt was like no spank you I do not agree with this Aaron Aske fellow yeah
I've yeah I've heard he's kind of a kind of a pill but so like the logistics of it for me
was a little confusing and took me out of it where the way the movie is edited and the way it
moves through itself is he is in this underground lab then there's also a hospital that she goes to
then there's a house that they're at and then when there's the funeral you see that maybe those two
places are next not the hospital but the lab and his place are next to each other out in the middle
of nowhere and I didn't get that that was Ellen Bursine's farm oh is it okay yeah so she was like
telling him okay I like in the hospital like oh I want to like she said I can be buried at her
farm and he gets all mad oh I'm I guess I missed that because I yeah I was just trying to see
this movie many times I apologize but the logistics of it where yeah and also too this movie is so
incredibly dark to the point where there's a lot of like conquistador stuff for sure light
coming from outside so bright that you can't see outside so be somebody entering into a place
and you can't even see what's out there because it's so bright and then the movie is so dark
so fucking dark every scene like even in the lab it's like so many shadows and everybody's
just kind of operating in this I like that lighting I don't know yeah I like all of the orange hue and
a lot of gold yeah which is cool I love this thematic element of that the blinds are kind of
drawn and then yeah you open the the door and it's like harsh white kind of light outside in
so he's and he's and this is something that's overplayed a lot as much as I love it but yeah
he's darkness and she's light you know oh that's such a guy and she's all snowy and she's wearing
white he's wearing dark he's in this little shadowy place yeah again that's you I and I love this
I give it so much credit I understand yeah a lot of people they're like you give it so much
good into the theme of it and I understand I do like I totally do yeah it's because to me it just
yeah there's no real establishing shots of anything everybody just exists in these caves
and or hospitals and yeah it just it's true yeah there's it's just the driving like the upside
down to the horse riding or the upside down to the car driving or the upside down to the bubble
going is really the only yeah like shot of like outside and even when he's driving in that road
there's like no one on the on the road or anything but and that makes me think this movie was story
boarded heavily there's a lot about it that Aaron off yeah I feel like had in his brain of how he
exactly wanted to look at least like the visual parallels of all that stuff I can picture him
storyboarding that very specifically oh sure and yeah and there's so many parts about this
movie that are very storyboarded because it is so concise in things it's like
transitions transitions it's like okay here's this thing here's that thing and it just it
yeah again hour 30 love that it doesn't overstay it's welcome for me but yeah again I just end up
you know very little about all the other players outside of them there's also two and you'd mention
this and something that I think too at this age that I'm watching it I had a hard time with this
this idea that a scientist would be so in like have the perspective that solving death is his
is like a motive of his yeah because I feel like any scientist you would talk to would talk to
would be like so matter of fact about how death is a part of life and you're when you're trying to
approach solving a problem in a scientific sense you're not trying to yeah like the idea is to make
people last longer like I would assume that actually a lot of scientists would be detrimental to
society yeah like that's not the goal the goal would be you know yes we like if anything we want
to eliminate suffering in later in in the back half of all of our lives that I could understand
being a pursuit but being so like hell bent on no we need to solve this death problem just seems
not very scientific at all and is so again about the themes of it sure but when you think about
these being real people or like because again I just I guess I got pretty heavily wrapped up in
how ungrounded the plotting and the people the characters in this movie end up being they just
are all serving and not even all of them most of them are so shallow like all of the external
characters all those other scientists and stuff like that really don't have there's not any time
spent with them so you really don't understand what their kind of involvement or their motives are
that would apply to a conflict or apply a different perspective to like how somebody else would view
this situation there's none of that it is so it's so laser for burn scene at least
yeah but even then I feel like all the lines that she's given is you're tired like you need to calm
down you know that kind of thing and it's not there's never a moment where Ellen Bernstein is
talking to somebody else other than Hugh Jackman about Hugh Jackman for example or what this means
if we were to find a cure for death which then goes into my issue with the future version of him
where there's nothing really to give you this there's not yeah there's so so so little to
explain or to at least provide a level of understanding as to why
why now he is able to live forever and then what that means for the rest of society it's just so
insular it's like if the movie presents itself as being like only he figured out the how to prevent
death but then again it's only about him you know which again I can under like it serves a bigger
theme but the plotting and the logistics of this movie yeah that's where like yeah what you described
I wouldn't really enjoy that movie it sounds like the stuff that you're describing that you want in
the movie isn't something that I want or need and actually I find would make those other things mean
less in a way that like it it I I actively don't want some of those answers and having the ability
to think about it myself and for my own opinion on what happened there amazing yeah in between
those things and why he's in this position and how it got here is like his dream like for me it like
it puts it puts me in a place of like think of creatively hashing it out in my own brain of what
I possibly think might have happened and getting into the logistics of that in this movie doesn't
sound like something that this movie even itself wants or needs in my mind yeah and I can see how
somebody would want that movie and would want that experience and going into this is more answers and
more a lot of questions as to why as that's why these things are happening and how we got here
and and all of that and like having a lot of exterior characters having outside scenes
apart from Hugh Jacken Rachel Weiss the insular nature of of the movie and having it be so
so much it really is he's in every scene there isn't a scene without him or her or both.
Cater's in my mind to the fairy tale nature the fable nature like the way that the conquistador
feels like it is written in a create like a like it's a it's a story that you'd read in a book
it ends up making the modern story if you like that as well as the futuristic story and it comes
across as myth to me rather than a hard sci-fi it's like it's more it's more fantasy and
the romantic nature of it probably
like I can I vouch for that and that probably like that vouches for maybe a lot of the
things that don't make sense or don't have any sort of logical basis or sort of explanation to it
the thing that does frustrate me the in more like the later watchings of this movie is some
of the stuff with the modern Hugh Jackman and and his whole rage against Seth as we mentioned a
couple times I do like the idea like his whole like vibe and his whole like energy like his energy
towards everybody and towards his work and towards her explains it as well in a lot of ways of just
how he comes off to people and how closed off everyone is like kind of explains enough of
like what's going on and it's something that is going to be a very subjective thing in a
movie like this that doesn't give you a lot in those departments that you that you just mentioned I
think and while it isn't something as like surreal as like a David Lynch movie or something
those kind of aspects of the futuristic stuff like makes me feel like I'm in that sort of space
where like this guy is a great artist and he had this idea of a visual thing that he thought was
important enough and strong enough of a visual idea that people would accept it in their own way of
of a storytelling tactic within this world but it is a bold swing it's a big fucking swing
and he must have known that it was not going to work for work for everybody at least Brad Pitt
so I yeah I give in definitely to this being a movie that not everyone wanted to see this
version of it and how it played out because it the structurally is an orthodox in terms of like a big
in terms of like a big a big movie like it's an unorthodox way of making a movie of like
essentially three vignettes that the way that they are tied together I think is a lot of issues
are derived from there as well but for me that last 15 minutes how it kind of all comes together
there yeah it makes me satisfied but yeah hey no I mean that's a great explanation as to why you
like this movie and it also just paints a light of like how it is successful on another in what
it's doing like it really reached you where it was because what I hear from what you just said is that
that you don't need to like you enjoy the idea of what this movie is communicating and trafficking
in enough where you don't need the specifics you're just so enthralled by what it's making you think
about and the fact that the movie understands that and doesn't need it doesn't feel the need to be
more grounded or have what I what I would say too though is there's just very little
challenge like not having other characters talk about things or providing more color and plotting
it creates less friction and allows the idea to just be the idea it's a huge act man really yes
he's getting challenged a little bit by Ellen Bernstein but that's not really like she's pretty
much kind of on board with a lot of what's going on she'll be like oh it's pissed off at I mean the
whole like because of the whole conflict there whatever is like the the tumor and it's not going
down and then it's the monkey's like essentially de-aging and going back to a younger younger
self and in its brain but he's not happy because the tumor is not not going down as the but there's
yeah there's only a couple scenes that really show that show that conflict and everyone's so stoked on
that but he's stifling the real progress because he wants to just work on this one thing and then
then he finds out that the tumor actually goes the tumor actually goes down and it's too late
it's so sad to me it's a very sad it's a very fucking sad it's a very sad like the the thrust
of the main story is is fucking sad but also yeah and and we've we've casually mentioned it but
the thing that goes a long way for me yeah I mean Hugh Jackman Rachel Weiss I think they're at like
their prime here yeah like they're performance wise and uh looks wise for both of them I mean come on
they look so good though I mean and the wardrobe of like the conquistador scene of him walking in
with all the candles and her behind that like leafy cage door as she's like talking to him and then
they're talking about going on this quest like is is one of my favorite scenes and that kind of stuff
it just looks like a cool fucking like music video or just like perfume
Chanel perfume ad yeah totally she just looks so fucking beautiful and like the and when like
the light comes in and it's just like bright white on her and then yeah and the candles look like
stars there's all the in all this visual imagery in the the bathtub scene I think is just devastatingly
uh so sad and and their performance of that is something in a movie that has such a big high
concept ideas going at it there's a scene of them in a bathtub just very human dramatic sad scene of
of uh of something that is that is base level just I think a really good dramatic scene whatever
movie you put it in and to have that that thrust of a of a modern sad sort of thing and then
and flavor it with the this this stuff I think is is a is the move that this movie went and it's
it's interesting it's not what you would expect from a movie about the fountains of youth
no and yeah just to my only point to the to that is I I totally agree with you and I it just shows
Rachel wise is really my the star of this movie for me because I think she is able to because
like I've communicated having a problem with this not being grounded enough is she grounds the movie
in every which way she really provides a lot of like this is like bringing us back this is the
problem that is happening this is the conflict that is happening and she is incredible uh she
really understands the assignment and she brings so much of like this hurt this pain this understanding
this coming to terms with her own death so yeah it's just so well I mean love her she's the best
there's like a multitude of emotions that she portrays and like the whole like asking him to
come take a walk is like she's in such a state of zen of acceptance and he's quite the opposite of
denial denial denial and seeing those those two interact uh I yeah I give a lot of credit to
to both of them but she comes across so effortless so effortless Hugh Jackman I think is this era you
know of him and doing like things like prisoners and um 38 in this movie the prestige is is around
this time and these are just some of yeah some of my favorite movies performances and uh he brings
he brings a brings a weight to it when he has to you know have those those breakdowns and
and yeah in the cost like the wardrobe man like him there's a little conch he's a little conch
he's doing with his little hat oh it's so great his facial hair and stuff there her dress and that
scene of course as I mentioned and uh yeah and the constant black and black and white symbology of
all that stuff is very obvious but I do I do love uh a lot as as well so I don't know I think we're
barreling to the end here let's take a look at my notes here and see if there's um much before we
before we get into notes can we take a quick little break yeah uh I can I can make this quick
and then we can do that before oh no no I don't want to rush it yeah I just yeah I wanted to take a
little review let's let's walk our ppk it up we'll be right back okay we're back welcome back everybody
you are your host James and we got some news we're gonna talk about some reviews
what if this is my voice the whole time oh my goodness can you imagine uh can you imagine a
dagger map that was cool with the the fire and the yeah I don't like I don't like you know what
it made me think of is that uh no was it the rise of Skywalker yeah I was like wow it's so convenient
rise of Skywalker is so much worse but it is a dagger map situation I understand they're both
dagger map situations but then it is so much worse I like I just love the I don't know the there's
always threes there's a lot of threes of things and the three and then there's in the middle and
then they look up at the stars when they're there and like oh Shabala's in the middle of out there
too I love how much you love this movie it's the best I feel like a beryk by soul it's rough
out here folks but if there's any for found lovers make sure you give us some love out there or give
me some love for my birthday it's my birthday pick it's your birthday yeah there's a breaking
bad actor he's cool I like his voice a lot even though he doesn't really speak and breaking bad and
you know better call so you know better call so um yeah the candles as the stars the ring holder
that she has in the my con in like the Spanish Inquisition scene that she gives him she unhooks
the little ring is I just love that little details is so great and then he's got you mentioned I think
before we recorded the little pouch that he carries it smells her hair and stuff like that too and
then I just love when he smells it there's just like that bright white vision of her each time he
he gets that scent um death as an act of creation yeah there's just those those big
moments of dialogue that I that I like that are very heady and how they speak of things but
yeah I'm all here for it um the silent walking shot after he goes to the hospital to visit her
I think is something that is yeah is is artsy and cool in a way that you get his his mood you
know you remember that where he's walking out the ambulance is going by it's all silent you just
hear his footsteps and then you see and you see like the sparks from people doing construction and
you just don't hear any of it and you just and you just walk over it gets run over I don't know
just like that something so gnarly has happened to you or something's traumatic has happened to you
and everything just kind of washes out I like uh sound design choice and even when he's yeah and
then he's in like the elevator I think to the hospital the other time and he's like just looking
at the pattern of the elevator elevator stuff like yeah it's just artsy stuff that's able to hold on
things that's not this is a crazy comparison but stuff like I don't know like Michael Bay or
shit like that or it's just like we gotta cut because that means it's better if we have more
cuts that means it's a better thing and it's the it's some some courage to it's me and yeah and
show these uh yeah kind of obscure things that are just there to kind of be a flavor
um the x-ray shot where like he's they show him the x-rays like because they're still a tumor and
then goes through the x-ray and it shows his face kind of change of scenes still seeing the the tumor
there there's a really quick creative things like that that are they're so fun death is the road to
ah yeah and then the third eye at the end yeah it's I like the first half of this movie at least
I was just sitting there and just taking it all and I was like oh I should probably write some stuff
down because as it was happening it was just like yeah I know I know this so well it just is like a
part of me now and so this is uh this has been that conversation of just like hard to rip look at it
as a fucking movie even you know it's it's just a it's a part of you right no and I mean yeah
absolutely I mean first and foremost that absolutely we all have those movies and then also too I mean
you made salient points about why you enjoy the what this movie is about that's great
yeah I and I think we both understand each other side this is I think there's been
a good convo I think we should hear from some of these critics and audiences that we've that
have brought us here today from the rotten tomatoes it's a 53 percent from the critics say 53 rotten
sneaky doop doopey doodoo and a 74 percent from the audience uh freshy fresh for and you know
yeah artsy kind of movie it was artsy fartsy uh sort of movie and the audiences are coming out for it
but let's hear some critics we'll start with Roger Ebert two and a half out of four I will concede
the film is not a great success too many scenes of blinding lights too many transitions for their
own sake abrupt changes of tone for Roger Ebert just a little blurred from there
Michael Atkinson from sight and sound it's difficult to recall another American film that
in pursuing a passionate and personal vision goes so maddingly uproariously wrong
Peter Bradshaw guardian there's a strange deadness in the film together with a callow
self-importance and self pity which become more stultifying with every minute that passes
there's a part of me that agrees with that yeah
Matthew Layland BBC.com first the good news the found is only 97 minutes long now the bad that's
97 minutes of rampant metaphysical cod swallow I'm gonna look up cod swallow it's not true
we're getting a cod swallow look up here and then we're also gonna get a pronunciation
brandini if you're curious I'm gonna I'm gonna see how you pronounce it make sure I got it right
cod swallow where's the definition 1920s and old sense overly talkative woman gossip probably
an alteration of cod walloper person who deals in or handles fish also foolish person the current
sense was popularized and possibly coined by British writers Alan Simpson and Ray Galton in
the comedy series Hancock's half hour in the late 1950s you can see the use over time for quad
cod swallow started in the fifth 1950 and had a big big rise in 2019 wow huge rise wow okay wow
I think that's a right load of old cod swallow as an example let's hear him say it cod swallow
up cod swallow cod swallow cod swallow cod swallow say nana die the doda chode doda jody all right
well now we got there let's do maybe one or two more of these critics Keith Phipps AV club
oh wait no no no let's not do that one uh but uh uh Anthony Lane New Yorker the movie may have
significant truths to impart although I have my doubts but it feels too inexperienced too
unworldly to have earned the right to them and we finish off with Joe Morgan Cern from Wall Street
Journal a tagline has been affixed to the campaign what if you could live forever and it has a
certain rent at residence especially after seeing the film which makes 96 minutes seem like an eternity
me I'm Joe Morgan Stern I'm Joe Morgan and I'm gonna be premiering my years stand up at
the comedy store just weekend if you want to come by I'm just Morgan Stern on Morgan Stern
can you imagine if there was a street called Morgan Stern that'd be great oh my gosh let's
hear some positive audience reviews my people see what they have to say from Merriam Tahirpour
five stars absolute beauty this movie resonates with me in an unexplainable way and over and over
I come back to it to experience once more and every time it teaches me something new in fact
it helped me accept my mortality in a way that hundreds of books or therapy sessions could never
do it's a must-watch but in the right time of your life if you're looking for a straightforward
movie or a popcorn movie it's definitely not the right choice for you at least I have to say
Clint Mansell did an unbelievable job composing soundtracks of this movie really really breathtaking
holy shit from Vivimus Aeternum five stars masterpiece this is the only film I would call
perfect in every way soundtrack absolutely beautiful acting powerful real emotionally gripping no
movie has hit me as hard as this spiritual biblical life changing and a true testament to the never
ending force of love that transcends time and space this movie healed something inside of me wow
I've watched this over 10 times and every time I learn something new or see a new perspective
some people won't get this film it took me a few times to understand it fully but sadly some people
are also NPCs dear and air and off he is a genius wow calling out people as NPCs yeah wow Jesus
let's go to Carlton McGee another five star found it's dope the movie depicts human life
beginning as stars the movie is multi-layered but in my opinion the two important takeaways are in
order for one to experience life one has to learn to accept death and reincarnation these characters
live through many incarnations it wasn't until the sacrifice occurred that Crio understood that
life doesn't exist without death once you're incarnated time begins your fate is sealed Crio
spent his life trying to change what is inevitable rather than accepting the reality we will never
return to the ben ben or the garden of Eden it has been said that Adam tried to get back to Ben
Ben in hopes the most high would grant him mercy but upon his death was buried with three seeds
placed under his tongue from the tree of life peace how is it how is it spelled just Ben Ben
to Ben Ben or the garden of Eden oh Ben Ben is a creation myth ancient ancient religions
there you go Ben Ben was the mound that arose from the primordial primordial waters new upon
which the creator deity attuned settled the ben ben stone is the topstone of the pyramid it is also
related to the obelisk god Ben Ben cod swallowp we're on a roll today this is something Carlton
McGee I just the fountain is dope I love that great way to start uh let's do yeah like me one or two
more here yeah from yeah keep it going I mean yeah this is I will tell you now if you go I'm the
google reviews were a little more tame because if you go on letterbox I will say you hit that five star
review button there are legit essays from people that go on for like pages about you just like whole
treatments of of the philosophy of this movie you know it's something that I cannot get into here but
if you are curious it's there's some real love from people for this for this movie uh from Demos
Lara's five stars this is a movie that has ideals about life about death about contemplation of meaning
about happiness and sadness about winning and about loss about the struggle to find answers
is hard to digest and follow and it needs empathy compassion understanding and in some cases the right
age to understand it cinematography is top notch everything just fits is a piece of art
uh maybe one more let's let's try one of these uh maybe a shorter letterbox and if there is one
uh take a look um yeah here we go from aid five stars dang it's one of those most visually
and thematically stunning movies I've seen truly in underappreciated gem there are no words to describe
this movie it can't even be compared to any movie in history it's in its own category hey piece of art
I'm in awe y'all help I don't know man but I think this is the movie that convinced Hugh Jackman really
is a great actor Logan is quaking it's definitely 10 out of 10 wow these are the letterbox counter
there's a different this different flavor flavor when you get into letterbox and I kind of I kind
of love it um I think we got a a taste for the the fervent you know people are fervent if you will
they're fervent they're blurring they're blurring they're swerving they're they're Durgan they're
they're everything everything you could possibly put on this movie is out there in this audience
section uh and that I think makes like strengthens strengthens the idea that this was a good uh
movie for this podcast and uh I think it definitely fits fits the bill and it's interesting to see
a movie that in my mind is yeah as I even said as someone who likes it is pretentious
and in a lot of ways like the audience coming out for it and those I those kind of ideas even
they say like oh interesting these are pretty lofty ideas but uh usually I don't know you're
gonna hear that more from critics a little bit but this one uh it's it's an interesting
movie this this one and people's reactions to it and uh yeah I think I'd like to hear
what you have to say any final thoughts brandini and uh and it's cool yeah it's a
it's interesting to me about the idea from that all the audience members again just the fact that
the audience members are the ones standing for it is amazing yeah because this is definitely a
situation where you would for sure think it's the other way because critics are all about like
introducing heady concepts that challenge people to think differently to look at the world differently
whatever because those you know those are the movies that critics will always champion and be
behind where this is transcends just an entertainment this has a voice this makes you think um but
but again what's interesting to me is the idea that the audience posits where if you don't like
this movie you just don't get it and let me just let me just say I get this movie yeah I understand
this movie oh yeah I understand the idea especially how clear it is in communicating those ideas and so
it's just a little bizarre where I'm like everybody's like has to preface their reviews like if you
don't get it then you you know it's like you're an idiot I'm like I get what's going on here and I
appreciate a fair amount of what it is making me think about this idea of very very in particular
if I were to think about a scene that really got to me is unfortunately it doesn't spend a lot of
time on it but anyways uh is Hugh Jackman realizing that it's almost like he in the present knows she's
like going to die and that happens on in the back half of the movie and the realization that
him working on the cure is robbing him of the time with her and how that is where you should
put your focus is not in trying to solve a problem but to enjoy the life that you're given and the
movie does well to also communicate that in other parts where it's like in a very heady way with
him drinking the circle of life or not the circle of life the tree of life you you're like almost
prepped to believe oh he's going to drink this and almost become like superhuman or he's going to
transform to this immortal being but instead the immortal being is just being part of the earth
and that's really interesting I love love love that idea because again my religious believes
presently is like that's that's the god the god is that concept is that we're all connected
and everything is a part of this thing and part of this living and breathing thing and
I love that I clear visual communication that you think it's going to be this physical body that's
going to exist past this but no it's actually you coming to home and coming back to what this living
thing that is going to outlive all of us and I love these ideas I really do but
this is an interesting case for me where it is weirdly too heady and I had a hard time with
getting on board with some of the pros of the movie because I felt like they only just presented them
to me and didn't provide me with enough point of view from where why that's important or why
that's in this movie and that really frustrated me because time and time again I'm like I'm wanting
something more out of you know maybe I know that I presented earlier in the conversation about
knowing what other people are doing but I would actually now say is I would like to have seen
more of their relationship beyond just him trying to solve the the cure and him just trying to solve
her illness and having way more situations of them in slice of life stuff of like
understanding better her perspective or coloring more or providing more context to her perspective
and to his perspective because it is this movie to my opinion's detriment is it is so
narrow in like we're going to focus on just this death and overcoming death portion as opposed to
also presenting life happening outside of this issue and I really found myself being like
well I like the visuals of it I like the music of it but something about the story I'm having a
hard time with and it's not again because I don't understand that the metaphys like the you know
the meta commentary or the bigger ideas that it's communicating I would actually like to see more of
reality grounding how you overcome this inability to see what the truth of life is you know and
yeah I just ended up having certain issues with that especially the like future version of himself
where it is so clearly symbolism and has so little to do with like in my mind what would make this
movie better is some type of connective situation maybe or some type of connective tissue between
him in the present solving I guess the like the dying thing and then what that leads him to
shaving his head and being on a bubble by himself like all of that stuff I wanted more of that kind
of character depth so yeah what I'm gonna do for this is I it's not like I hated this movie at all
there are so many good things about this movie and that's why it was so fun for this conversation
to hear more about somebody loving the themes of it because that is obviously what this movie is about
is really thematic very symbolism heavy and doesn't care too much about how that would relate to you
as a person you have to mean it there which is cool which is interesting like it's forcing you to
think and I would say by and large I would rather default to a movie treating its audience not like
it's an idiot and like it's really worth sharing an idea and assuming that it might not work for
some people but if you want to put in the effort to make it work for your understanding or how
pulling it into how you view life I have to commend it for it um I'm what I'm gonna do is I'm
gonna split the difference between the critics and the audience and I'm gonna go with a 64 percent for me
right on right on uh yeah all all great points uh yeah I mean what it what it comes down to if I had
any not really like any response to that it just yeah it seems like uh different wanting of different
things and in the movie and um this is one that I do have a as I mentioned a deep history with
and I don't have to rehash everything that I that I loved about it but I I do think that
yeah you mentioned I do like the themes so I can go there like the themes of death and and how it
does handle those things while it can be criticized as as at times schmaltz and melodramatic the basic
thrust of it of of not cherishing the times that you have with the person that you love
love and living in the present and and stop trying to fix things and and try to logically uh
in your own mind try to make it make sense or or have a have a solution to it the energy of
Rachel Weiss which you said is I mean her performance really really drives what I think is is the
positive message of of this movie is her whole character and the grace at which she has the
ability to to die with dignity and uh and in the way that I I see as her choosing exactly how
and even the the inability for Hugh Jackman to be there for her in all of the times that matter
most you can tell him kind of letting her down in some ways it doesn't dampen her spirit as well
and that sort of way of living I think is inspiring to me I see myself uh as aspiring to be like her
but then I see myself in a lot of ways being like a Hugh Jackman and and getting bogged down with
the details of things and uh getting upset about uh why things have to be a certain way instead of
uh living in that moment and and deciding what you do have control over which is that moment
that moment with the person I'm taking a walk or uh you know hearing you know hearing about her book
instead of you know taking a call or whatever that is and those things I I agree they that there
isn't a lot of uh extra extraneous sort of things that are color of life sort of things it really
is meeting these people in the in a very dark moment of of end of her life and in the relationship
and in that way it still is there is redemption there and and how she handles it and then the
lessons that he learns I think all come to fruition in that final moment of how the Conquistador's
story ends exemplifies his arc of understanding death and the effect that she had on him and how
he looks at it now and how he believes she would have wanted it to end in a certain way uh and then
having that come to fruition in that way and then the the modern tale as well of him just planting
a tree in the symbology there uh I get why you why you say that is enough for you and you don't need
much more than that the extra you know bubble and the tree thing is something that adds to this movie
uh a flavor of the unexplainable and a flavor of the obscure and yeah super art housey sort of
style of it but the themes in themselves and you know a lot of credit I give it a lot of credit I know
uh is about the unexplainable in a certain way so it's like I don't know just having
having him on this other futuristic journey could have been done in a in a fucking spaceship with
a crew with like a little fucking capsule with a tree that he you know brought from and it just
would have been so like I don't know boring in my mind and and straightforward or it could have
it could have explained explained that in a way that would have taken away the magic of it and
uh the ability for the audience to meet at halfway or whatever I think is why so many people champion
it and why so many people get defensive about it there's a lot of movies that we do people get very
defensive either it is maybe more of the audience side either way but because the critics are you
know sometimes they're just like oh the peons or whatever don't don't fucking get how you know
esteemed this is or something but for it to come from the audience I think it hits a nerve with
those themes of life and death and uh it hit me and it will continue to be one that'll I'll revisit
throughout my life and uh it washes over me in an emotional way in a in a way that uh yeah I don't
immediately think think of the a lot of things that Brandon mentioned uh in his review when I
watch it because it is so much I'm the familiarity with it is so much but I really super duper cannot
express this enough appreciate this conversation being able to talk about it with somebody that is
able to kind of navigate those things that don't work for you because uh I think we both met in
the middle in a lot of ways because uh I feel like I understand exactly a lot of the the problems here
that people have with it and to make a point that you make as well more credit given to it but I do
think those limitations helped it out a little bit too where like I don't want to see a big fucking
conquistador battle or whatever like maybe I want it to just be a little bit more simple and have him
have air nobsky kind of work with what he's got rather than have him just a bunch of money and do
whatever the hell he wants with Brad Pitt and click Cape Lynch yet uh but who knows for what this is
it works for me a lot uh and I'm gonna give it a wholehearted do 98 do 98
I fucking love this movie this is gonna this is like uh one of my favorite movies it really is
straight up and uh the things about Hugh Jackman being like death a disease a disease and there's
a cure is a big moment a big line and that's probably the 2% is probably gonna go down a
little bit from I think just for for a little bit of just that that veering on a little bit
friction of too close of what's happening I like that there's a there's a there's a gap between
what's going on but he just says it straight on where it's like like you're saying that that seems
like a little a little much to take in but at the same time he delivers it very well and it is kind
of like his whole thing as a as a character at then then in the bare essence it's just hard to hear
him say it out loud I think just say I feel like this is one of your best reviews I just I feel like
so filled up with Joey filled up with emotion by hearing this um because at a regardless of our
our opinions just hearing you talk it I'm giving it 100 continue
you holy shit fuck it wow oh my god who cares death is a disease we need to cure it Brandon
I'm on board now the death is the sorry I interrupted continue um no no no I yeah I
I said my piece is like it just yeah again it was wonderful to just hear your explanation of why you
love this movie because it's not in no way did I ever feel like I needed to defend anything I just
was like so it felt so good to just accept somebody talking lovingly about something and um I just I
want to say that I appreciated that to be a part of this discussion same dude absolutely yeah this
is I mean I think that's the beauty of art and I would hope Aronofsky would agree I don't think
he's making movies to to have everyone be on board with what's happening and uh it's good to see it
in practice uh yeah not being on the same page about about something but this is that's what this
podcast is for and I think yeah us being polarized makes it makes it pretty pretty fun uh and I hope
it's been for for you as well because all of these movies are freaking polarizing and uh I hadn't
really like investigated too much further and and uh I was worried that looking at some of
you in the critics reviews I'm like gonna be like uh oh this is a bad movie oh no I was worried a
little bit like going through this process of like not only where's I gonna find out that other people
didn't like it maybe maybe like yourself as well which you didn't hate it but you didn't love love
a sort of thing but I was worried that that was gonna yeah that was gonna affect me but I still
yeah I still find the enjoyment and I think that yeah it speaks to the the strength of of whatever
whatever it's done to me and uh whatever movies that you folks have out there I'm sure you can
you can relate where you feel like you you hold on to it but I try not to get too defensive I
yeah that whole sort of like well you just don't fucking get it like that just no and you never
did that at all I mean yeah doesn't do anything for anybody poop who to those people that feel the
compelled to include in there because that's again uh such a wonderful part of your review why I yeah
I just really I feel like it's one of your best is this not defensive about it you're just focusing
on the fact that this movie speaks to you on a level that it just makes sense and that you're
like accepted and you welcome it of like oh here's me thinking about this movie is getting me thinking
about these things that I want maybe not like some sort of aversion to thinking about but being
presented with them and and being almost forced to think about them you end up really enjoying
that process and then yeah it's wonderful oh yeah I appreciate it brother I think I appreciate the
the discussion and it's I think one of yeah one of our best as well um you know and I I'm glad
that there was someone to check me from getting to my own ass about this movie too of like I don't
know I feel like it was two people that just like yeah and then remember when when this happened oh it's
so great oh you know it's it's nice to have a have a different opinion it's not it's kind of boring
when we're just constantly agreeing I'm sure sometimes but there's there's those episodes
out there too I think they can be fun to I think they're pretty great too I mean I added the thing
is is that and we've kind of joked about this on some episodes is like even though this whole thing
that we're doing is called polarized more often than not we're not polarized in our opinions about
said particular movie and what's even more wonderful about this movie is even though we were
had different opinions about it neither one of us and and to your point of thinking about how you
like you know are scared almost of like am I am I gonna be you know told how this movie is uh
pooby-dooby snoopy like that's not the at the end of the day that is something that rings true
about this podcast is that's not the point both of our vibes is that we necessarily because I and
now I would almost want to revisit like things to do in Denver when you're dead is like when you
were really polarizing of like needing to needing that sense of like needing to defend it and how
much that is present because I feel like more often than not we don't default to that like I have to
uh that's true be heard and I have to make my point of like you know whatever I never really
like you're wrong right if yeah if anything yeah again it'd be interesting to hear that what to do
in Denver when you're dead because we're fat man I know we were polarized on but I just think about
like with those movies though is like I know they suck so I don't feel that sense of needing to defend
it like it's either just we very interesting like this movie I know this is artsy fartsy
bullshit I get it you're just like this movie is speaking my language and whatever that language
is and I don't need to defend it and I as the your you know your friend don't ever feel like
I have to necessarily be like hear what I'm saying I'm saying the right thing oh you know it's like
no you don't get it or like the like the audience reviewers that need to just be like
if you don't get it then you're it's a failing on your part yeah or like that's the thing that
you have to preface or make a point of is like it's like the strong thing right you're just
bringing something to tear down 100 saying like there's yeah it's it's like setting up an argument
in such a terrible way where you're like this movie is great and if you don't like it then you're the
problem just talk about what you want yeah there's someone else down for their opinion yeah you can
just and I think more and more as yeah as we've gotten growing older it's just about
sincerity and earnestly feeling one way or the other yeah if you earnestly feel like something
is shit then you can have absolutely have that opinion and have that on your own has nothing
to do with any anybody else and I catch myself sometimes too of wanting to have my own opinion
so much that I try to I try to keep it out of my head as much as again until I partake with the
piece of art myself so I can feel like I have some sort of opinion myself but then there's other
things too where it's like I kind of would like to hear some people's takes on this because I don't
I'm having a hard time even parsing out my own feelings and hearing some takes it does it does
help as well so I don't know yeah if this has made you change your mind about it any anybody out
there listening then that would be that would be interesting I know I know when I listen to podcasts
about movies and stuff it it really helps me digest my own opinions and even if I disagree
with the people talking about it it's like oh wow that is a take that I completely disagree with
but it helps me understand my own opinion about like I think this other way 100% and we've and
we've talked about certain podcasts that have done that usually by and large well but
but there we've made a point to have conversations about podcasts that do this where
you're like what I'm saying and like this idea of you're not trying to hear or you're like there's
this agenda there you're you're it's a take there's a hot take you got that you just got to get out
there yeah right like I'm gonna say this just I know again like the audience reviews is like
I know people aren't gonna like this and you know what those people are dumb for not liking this like
no compensate and and that's literally the worst also here in podcasts and we've talked about certain
episodes and of certain podcasts where when they do that it's the it sucks because yeah it's
this content for the last Jedi episode you'll fuck you yeah I'm sure you guys would probably hate me
that whole time you maybe me I don't know yeah one of us another polarized episode but to leave
this I yeah like almost speaking to the to our listeners is like I hope a thing that you take
away from this podcast and why we do this is because we care about each other's opinions
because we love each other and we can have different opinions and that doesn't mean that
we're being attacked or our whole self-worth is wrapped up in it it is so much that it's so much
more enjoyable to be in a friendship and to care about somebody to be like like what you said and
I've told you this of like one of my kind of like I don't know things that I value so much in life is
have a different opinion it's just about being passionate about it if anything like
you yeah you shouldn't get wrapped up in the opinion is different if anything just like
yeah encouraging people to feel comfortable and to feel safe to express how interested they are
about something and to hear that and to accept it that's what matters it's not about needing to
change somebody's mind it's about what a wonderful gift that somebody provides you is a different
perspective on a thing and again you don't have to accept that opinion but to hear it I feel like
just provides so much value in itself and it doesn't need to be a hot take every time it doesn't
need to be something that you know it can be a nuanced measured sort of opinion that I feel like
we we hope to strive for we're like yeah a lot of our ratings and our feelings are yeah more I
feel like measured in terms of like trying to understand the movie itself hearing out both
sides and and coming out with their own opinion of is is the formula essentially of this of our
podcast and and what we try I don't know I feel like we try to employ here is just like we we
talk about the stuff we hear from other other people and then you know we get our own opinion
because I feel like that's almost the process of watching a movie is that you'll watch it and then
maybe you'll go on look at some reviews and then you'll talk about it with your friends later and
there's certain takes that you hear from people that maybe you'll adapt into your own
version of as as well and I think that sort of discussion is is what makes art in general so
so fun and if you are so clandestine like set on one take of it and everyone else is wrong
sounds like a boring way to live and sounds lame to you know not be able to change your opinion on
something I mean it makes me think like promes I have such a hard like hard history with that
movie or just like I feel different about every time like is this movie great is this movie bad I
just don't know I just sometimes I watch him like god this movie's awesome other times I'm like god
this is so stupid it's like what's happening but it it can be both things at the same time it's
like and I think it's it's worth it gives space for that if anything I we would encourage just
like a thing can be stupid at the same time as providing joy and interest in things like it
doesn't have to be one note that's not what we strive for here and I would just in in my mind a
perfect like situation for this podcast finding somebody is for what you're saying is somebody
who's like I just watched a movie and I have a feeling about it and I want to hear other people's
opinion of it but it isn't so much to validate it's just to hear air it out and to air it out and
just go like because if anything disagree with us on all of this shit and if that helps you work
through your love and understanding of something then I feel like we won yeah and I'm sure there's
like plenty of especially in this movie that either people love or hate it would like you miss this
you miss that and every discussion is different and you could have a whole podcast just on air
and air and ask you can have a whole podcast on just the fountain I mean there's people who wrote
whole essays and you could read those too but I think this has been an awesome example of what
this podcast is about the discussion in this movie itself and he himself I think is polarizing
that that damn air nofsky but you mentioned this guy earlier one of the guys I think
our guys around this this time and another one of those guys is pta so we thought we jump into
pta town little paul thomas anderson with one of his polarizing movies it's rare to have a
polarizing pta but here it is folks it's inherent vice inherent vice story in walking phoenix is
a critically favored movie at 74 percent by the critics it is an audience panned movie at 53 percent
poopy doopie snoopy we're jumping into one would say maybe another artsy fartsy sort of situation
we shall see and I'm very excited yes this has been a joy very looking forward to next time very
much so is there anything else that we miss before we wrap up here no I mean definitely
raid and review please like it it means yeah apple podcast rate review subscribe on there write a
little blurb or something and give us a give us your feelings and give us some notes yeah we would
love it uh polarize the pod at gmail.com you can send anything else you would like there we're
streaming live twitch.tv slash polarize pod uh if you want to see our beautiful faces uh yeah we
got a youtube channel as well polarize pod uh you can stream the podcast from there however you like
it but uh we hope you guys have enjoyed yourselves I do every time brandini the great brandini my
conquistador it's been a true pledge my friend true pledge and uh I'll see you next time for
in here advice goodbye