Welcome to the podcast, the polarized podcast, the podcast for polarizing movies, the kinds
of movies that audiences and critics disagree on on rotten tomatoes.
Sometimes the audiences love it and the critics hate it or vice versa.
I'm your host James.
Welcome to the show.
This week on the program, we will be discussing a 2001 mystery and thriller slash drama, according
to Ron Tomatoes, vanilla sky.
It's a vanilla sky episode.
The sky is vanilla.
Not chocolate, not strawberry.
It's vanilla is a 43% critically reviewed movie on rat tomatoes and audiences actually
like this one over the critics, which on first glance, you would think that this would be
maybe like the, the critic favored movie.
This I feel like this is a pretty artsy fartsy movie you might, you might say, but those
audience members are coming out in 72%.
So let's get into it.
It's a pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much for just jumping right into the Polarize gig.
I would like to introduce a certain special someone.
You know, there may be in this movie, the saddest girl with a martini, but I'm the happiest
guy with a brandy.
Let's go.
I love that.
Thank you.
James Teenie.
That's right.
Happy.
I'm happy to be here.
I have the most notes I think I've ever taken on a good for the first time you can help
me out a little.
Actually, this movie does a boy overly explain it at the end, but maybe you can.
Maybe you can help me through this movie.
Yeah, I think discussing it.
I just want to just so boldly say I think this movie could go to jail.
Maybe.
Who is it?
Is this a?
We need to share the letterbox go to jail movies that need to go to jail list somehow
to the to the people because Brandini's putting it together.
I'm putting it together movies that should go to jail and I'm excited to get to this
discussion because I think this movie could potentially be a great candidate to jail.
And yeah, so I'm doing good though, man.
Excited to talk about this movie.
Yeah, we had another movie that went straight to jail recently, which was Things to Do in
Denver when you're dead.
I know a lot of and that's a movie that you might even enjoy, but it's like also like,
you know, you should you should lock you up for the better, betterment of society, most
likely.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I, you know, some movies they just what they stand for might need to just go to jail.
And yeah, that's that's part of what we get to the bottom of on this.
I want that like epilogue at the end.
That's like a cuts to black and then it's like this movie went to jail on.
Yeah, like in 2024.
According to it's a new leaf.
And it's like some vault that you got a year out of get into to watch it again.
It's the brandini.
I hope that vault is guarded by Michael Shannon.
He's yeah, those shoulders are broad and you wouldn't have a hard time getting past.
And he's absolutely cuts a striking tall figure.
He does.
He really just towers over people in them and such a commanding menacing.
Do you think he was born with a scowl?
Could you imagine the conversations his parents were having about just worrying how scowly
their son looks?
He looks like he's 42 instantly.
He's birth to a 42 year old man.
He's five going on 45.
He's saying very grown up things to me.
Okay, but this is before we go any further.
Yeah, let's get.
Yeah, we're already getting into it.
Let's before we fully get into it.
This is an episode that has a guest on it.
We are excited to have this guest.
This is a person that I bonded with over movies and thought it would be so great to have on
me and James talked about this idea of if we're going to have them on it.
It should maybe be for a weird movie.
And I think mission accomplished because this movie is cuckoo bananas with a capital C capital
B.
But this episode is.
I would like to now introduce our guest Weston.
Hey, how's it going, bud?
Hey guys, happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, welcome to the show.
Really, man.
Yeah, welcome to the show.
Welcome.
We're just a couple of schools that like to talk about movies and this one happens to
be like particularly disagreed upon movies.
And I don't know if that concept hits for everybody who may who may be here of the podcast, but
I'm glad you're here to get into it.
Is there any movie that like you have that maybe it's hard to think of right on the spot,
but is there a movie that you have that you feel like might be polarizing that you like
that other people maybe or like a lot of people don't like that you feel like you have to
kind of stick stick up for a bit?
Yeah, there's there's a few.
I mean, just recently I listened to your hook podcast with Corey.
Yes.
I'm a big hook kid.
And that movie just I love that movie.
And I find myself defending that one.
Nice.
But it happens a lot.
I mean, I have tons of films like that.
I can't really think off the top of my head, but I'll get to it.
No, it's a great choice.
You're a big baseball pirate guy just like past guest, large aka Corey.
Exactly.
That movie has grown on me a lot.
I don't know.
I wish I'd watched it more growing up because now coming to it as you know, as an adult
man that's I've watched a few actually another time since then and I liked it even a lot
more.
And I can't I can't believe some of the dramatic moments near the end of that movie just hit
me cut me like a knife.
Yeah, one roof.
You get cut like a knife.
Yeah.
But what is it?
Run home run home Jack.
Is is that?
Is that?
Is that baseball games and then every all the pirates are there and they're just cheering
jack yeah and you had a big issue with those daytime baseball games.
They had the biggest issue with the daytime.
They time they time during the big wonder.
He's not making it to you know, I mean, if your son's baseball game is on a Wednesday
at like 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
I mean that's tough.
I'm sorry.
But I'm adults work a nine to five job.
You know what?
And then can you step back a little bit in the can?
I think you might have a self.
Is that a cell phone holster?
Just like Robin Williams had in the movie.
Yeah, it is.
You've changed.
Yeah, well, you know, that nine to five job, I tell you,
will turn you into a missing baseball dad.
Well, let me ask Wesson, like in particular, this movie,
do you have any history with it?
I have.
As I was talking with Brandon before we started recording,
I have been seeing this movie poster since I can remember.
Obviously, since the film.
I was, yeah, I was in 30 when this movie came out.
So every video store I went to, every blockbuster,
always had a vanilla sky poster and it was everywhere.
And I never saw it.
My dad would talk about it.
And he would frankly say how bad of a film it was.
Like he's kind of a snob, I guess.
I don't know.
Well, I mean, well, I mean, I think there's some truth
to that and we'll get there.
But, you know, yeah, I'd say the people making the movie
are snabs.
Yeah, you could say that.
I would.
Yeah.
Something about it turned me off.
And I just, I never visited this film until three nights ago.
So yeah.
Wow.
Was that ever like a bucket list thing of like, oh, I should
get around to doing that.
Just to see as it adds a curiosity or you're just,
it was really just from this podcast that you're like,
I guess I'll have to do this shit.
It'd been on the list mentally for some time.
And I have a friend that this is his favorite film.
Oh, wow.
You shout him out.
I should tell him to write in.
Don't, don't talk something.
Leave a voicemail or something.
He's going to jail.
For sure.
He's going to jail.
Oh, with this movie.
Yeah.
Co-conspirator.
Yeah.
Favorite movie.
Wow.
Yeah, this was, I agree.
The same sort of thing where like, I feel like I saw
this advertised a part of me, I feel like maybe conflated it
with eyes wide shut because it was close enough.
And I just saw Tom, it was like that era of Tom Cruise.
And I just saw like trippy things happening.
And but yeah, I vaguely remember, you know, the,
the trailer of him, you know, being near the edge of the
building and car stuff.
But no real idea of what this movie was about, just that it
was weird and trippy and like sexual, which that's essentially
like eyes wide shut with Tom, Tom Cruise.
But that is such an experience of like walking through the
video aisle and seeing covers of this.
And this one was just, you know, yeah, his, his face on the
front, which is a huge plot point in this movie, that face.
Yeah.
This movie is essentially about Tom Cruise's face.
Right.
Yeah.
A lot of different versions of his face, you know, and each
one has a very distinct, I don't know, kind of a
genus a quab.
This is kind of the MI2 era too.
I'm a, I feel like that's the movies I'll occasionally defend.
I'll be like, I kind of like that a mission possible to you.
It's my kind of stupid.
I understand it's stupid, but it's like my kind of my brand.
Like it's a, what is it a John Woo and there's Doves and
motorcycle, that motorcycle duel.
Motorcycle.
Very cool.
Yeah.
It's got the rock.
How are you guys with Cruise in general?
Like what's your relationship?
Yeah, it's a good thing to bring up.
Oh, I mean, for me, I am favorable on him when he's doing
a lot of, I'd say more so like the action movies, but every
now and then, you know, he'll, he'll stray and do something
interesting, at least earlier in his career.
And I think before the podcast, we were trying to figure out
this was before or after Magnolia and that Magnolia
performance, I think is something special.
I love the mission impossible movies, but then there's stuff
like this movie where it's like, you really start to see what's
what's shining through is like the try hardness and like the,
I don't know, the, the, he's not very, he can't be subtle.
There's like no, he has to go full fledged into every moment
and give a hundred, a hundred percent to everything, which is
great.
Yeah.
I think like an action movie or something like that or
something that requires a little more subtletie doesn't hit as
well.
The, the eyes wide shut, I think is interesting because he's
confused on how he's supposed to act in that movie.
And I think Hubert purposefully did that to him, which makes
for like an interesting performance with this one.
He seems to like be able to do whatever the fuck he wants.
And that is, I think a little bit to the detriment of this
movie in particular, but I'm not like a Tom Cruise hater.
I think he definitely can be used well on those new mission
possible movies I've had a blast with, but how do you guys feel?
Yeah.
I mean, for me, I'm, I can be pretty hit or miss on Tom Cruise.
That's a good way to put it.
Some of the action movies that he is the lead of, I don't care for.
Yeah.
I would say that Tom Cruise is really great when the director
uses him well.
And to your point about him having a lot of seemingly freedom
to be and do whatever he wants as to his detriment, because I
think Tom Cruise, at least my opinion of him is he's an incredibly
weird guy and him, he just to me doesn't seem like a guy that
understands like normal human emotion very well.
It's always like, which can work in movies.
And honestly, it kind of gives a, it's like being a stage actor
almost where it is a caricature of emotions.
He's able to do a wide range of these characters, but none of
them are really seemingly real or grounded or like a normal person
would react this way.
And to his a lot of implying and it's a lot.
Yes.
It's a lot of like, so in this movie and in Eyes Wide Shut,
which are two movies that are really great to compare each other with.
First, I'll just say, because you had brought it up earlier, James,
about how Kubrick knows how to use Tom Cruise.
So that is more of Tom Cruise fitting into a Kubrick mold.
And he really excels in that because he is getting he is
getting directed very well in a movie like this, not so much,
but also to, yeah, like.
Where am I going with this?
Like, yeah, with like Magnolia, he's essentially like he's
a fuckboy in that movie, which works for him as a real person.
Just kind of like in that movie, a lot of it is him in an interview,
like chewing up the scenery, which is essentially very close to the
Oprah interview.
I want to hear Wesson's thoughts on on cruise.
You have any favorite worst performances or any feelings in general?
Ever since I was a kid, I've kind of been for pro Tom Cruise, I guess.
I would say that for myself too.
Superstar, like he's just, he delivers on that level.
He's a great action star.
Then you discover, you discover Magnolia and you're like, okay,
he can get weird.
And then, you know, I saw Eyes Wide Shut.
I think after I saw Magnolia, but that was really fascinating.
And I recently watched the firm.
Have you guys seen that?
Oh yeah, big firm fan over here.
That's his best performance.
That movie, big firm.
Yeah, that soundtrack is so good.
Yeah, excellent.
Excellent. That's like favorite film to his, but.
That's totally understandable.
That's a great performance.
And that's another performance of him being this yuppie character.
Like him in this movie, he is very good as being a yuppie.
And a lot of it has to do with how just like the fun fact of Patrick Bateman
or the performance of Patrick Bateman in American Psycho is based on Tom Cruise.
Like it's just he is such a weird guy where he comes off as being so.
Inhuman or disconnected from certain assemblances of a normal reality.
And it just obviously carries over in just who he is to as a person.
So that is like, even though his performances can be so alien,
it seems also in real life, he's kind of an alien and people look at him like that at times.
And yeah, like the most extroverted person that somehow there's this big wall
between him and the rest of the universe in the world.
And like no one's ever going to penetrate it.
It seems and a few people who have like the women that he he's married of.
It's been interesting seeing him go through that.
I like not that I pay super close attention to you,
but I just think of that Nicole Kidman picture of I don't know if you guys
seen that picture of her when she's walking away from signing the divorce papers.
And she's just like, I haven't seen her hand.
She's just like looks like she's like singing.
Oh, my God.
Pretty intense, but that's that could be projecting under just a picture that I'm seeing.
But I, all the Scientology stuff, he's a he's a weird dude.
And he's also someone. Yeah, that's it's a dying breed of Hollywood.
It's interesting to see the moves that he makes this stage in his career.
And all things like this were like a big fucking deal.
This is a big fucking deal.
This movie because like, absolutely.
Us as kids like heard about it and like knew vaguely like there was something
like this out there, even though it was definitely very, very much for adults.
That it wasn't for us, but it was being talked about.
And I had no real idea what people thought about it until I kind of looked
at some of these Rotten Tomato reviews and going through and watching it.
This is my second time.
And I for some reason blocked it out of memory.
Memory of what happened in this movie, but I believe that.
Yeah, it seemed like a fever dream.
Oh, no shit.
Yeah.
Mostly like this is very purposeful.
You know, it was very purposeful.
So it's 10 out of 10.
Yeah.
I mean, if you want to go through like maybe some broad strokes of it.
Before we get into the end of the film, I, you know, I want to talk
about Cameron Crowe a little bit, just like you've given Tom Cruise a little bit
of the yeah.
So where's this at in his career?
So this after his career is after almost famous.
Wow.
This is the follow up.
This is this you might say this is the blank check.
Yeah.
This is the blank check.
It's because really anything goes on this piece.
Yeah.
Anything.
Yeah.
It has very big anything goes energy.
I was trying to think about whether or not Jerry McGuire is actually the more
like now you get a blank check or almost famous is what was after Jerry McGuire
was it almost famous?
Uh-huh.
It goes Jerry McGuire, almost famous vanilla sky.
I feel like vanilla sky for him because also this movie to take even like one step
backwards, you say, oh, you're whether or almost.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're right.
I was just going to take even one step backwards too is that this movie was already a movie
in 1997.
It was was it?
Yeah.
A motorbar.
What's his name?
He directed the others.
He's a Spanish director.
Oh, okay.
Oh, yeah.
And it's what does it say?
I said, I'm going to this.
Oh, something like open your eyes.
And it has Penelope cruise in it as well.
And it was made in 97.
So what Cameron Crowe did was just like, oh, if I could do anything, I'm just going
to make this same movie again.
And that's like, I don't know, that's the most blank check.
It works to me.
I assume so.
I haven't seen the original, but I would, I would assume so.
I watched the trailer of it and it seems like, yeah, all the characters are there.
There's a lot of similar imagery of him tying her up at the end and stuff like that
and confusing it to you.
Yeah.
And it just looks like so much more.
Yeah.
A little bit more like straightforward and a little bit less moolock went to it
because this one is yeah, a lot of money and some interesting places like,
Hey, here you go Beach Boys.
Hey, here you go Rolling Stones.
And I mean, but we're getting a little bit far from Cameron Crowe before I, yeah,
because we should talk about the music too.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, Cameron Crowe speaking of almost famous as a big music guy, right?
He also was.
Yeah.
He was like, I don't say anything.
Also as Cameron Crowe movie and that's really big on the music and the music in this movie
is pretty cool.
There's some cool songs in it.
Great songs.
Just how they're utilized, not always works.
And sometimes it's like a strange, there's one moment, the strange cacophony of like,
what if God was one of us?
And then like, and then records scratching into a different song as he was like losing
it for the fiftieth time.
But yeah, a lot of good music.
I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to pull my leg is how does this movie start
is with the opening track of kid A baby.
Yeah.
Arguably the best use of the music in the movie.
It's a great opener to us to sign.
Yeah.
Great opener to like him waking up from a dream or whatever.
What?
Yes.
I was already thinking about like, what was it a dream?
Yeah, which part?
No, no, you're right.
Well, he does that multiple walk out like of any touches that TV, the TV or whatever
that he has that goes into the floor.
And then he, yeah, I don't know.
We can't we can't chart the course for this movie entirely, but this the introduction
of the introduction of him as a character is this opening of like who he is.
Like he's with Cameron Diaz at the beginning.
He's inherited this.
He's like a journalism magnate.
I don't know.
He's his dad's given.
Absolutely.
He's a he's a low media mogul.
He's a Roy.
He runs a few magazines.
So runs the public.
Yeah, essentially the conglomerate that owns all of those magazine companies.
So yeah, media 51% stake and 49% goes to the seven doors.
There's lines in this movie that just taken out of context.
We like there's plenty of stuff taken out of context in this movie.
That would be strange, but there's a lot of stuff.
We're like, the seven dwarfs are trying to fuck me over, man.
And I'm walking like, what are you watching?
What are you talking?
Yeah, what are you watching?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm watching.
What is so crazy?
Yeah.
And that's so the movie starts with a dream and then goes into a potential.
He's driving two different black nice cars.
That was interesting.
Very similar, but not the same.
So you know, subtle differences to cue you in that the first time you've seen
him was in a dream.
Now you're not.
But the dialogue still throughout this entire movie is so dreamlike where
everybody just kind of talks in this way that just has this tinge of like,
this isn't how normal people have conversations, right?
Like.
I'm glad you're bringing that up because that was throwing me off the whole
time and I was trying to decipher if it was Cameron Crow kind of schmaltzy
speak, you know, like from.
Yeah, cool guy speak, right?
Yeah.
And just kind of.
Pretentious.
A little bit like that.
I don't know.
It was like overwritten as well, but like they were in like completely
different rooms or completely different movies.
And but there were some goofy ass lines in this movie.
Oh my God, it's fucking chopped full of them.
I mean, the saddest girl with a martini is fucking said multiple times.
That's a stupid fucking line.
I'm sorry.
But it said multiple times.
It's like, oh, that's a good one.
I'm going to say it again.
Like, come on.
What's like everyone's happy with a martini martini is a sad man's
drink as well.
Drink.
Absolutely.
It depends on the situation.
But I mean, see, I think she, it didn't feel like everything we
had except for that line about saddest girl to ever hold a
martini or see when another life when we're both cat.
That's legendary know that the cat line was just like a huge
what the fuck between?
Except she had.
I just like said and which is.
Already.
Oh, sorry.
Good.
Cut you off.
But the fact that he like stop and he's like, wait, what did you say?
And repeats it like 10 times and this is if camera gets closer on his face
and he's till he starts like meowing at the straight down the barrel of the lens with this with his face that I
Don't know what you're trying to do with the stylistic choices because there's a lot of stylistic choices
That are to what end
Yeah, it's the dialogue. That's a great place to start as well. Yeah
It's so of its own but about everything because it's trying to be very artistic by the dialogue is representative of this dream
State and narrative that is prevailing throughout the entire movie
You know just questioning whether or not this is reality or not
And it's definitely makes it difficult to know which reality is the real one because everybody in this movie is talking like
They're an insane person or they're at a bare minimum. It's like
They're not in the same room with the other person
It just seems so disjointed where it'll be like focus on a person
They'll say crazy shit and then yeah, it just is like to what end and to who and
not like a fun sometimes it gets fun and can't be like
Even like what it's trying to be which is David Lynch like Twin Peaks like Mulholland Drive kind of shit like it's trying
it's trying to
Eat his lunch and do the surreal thing but also be like pop surreal
This thing I it's like oh for sure a great point
It's trying to be it's it's trying to be palatable still and still trying to like clue you into everything like oh
This has a purpose and there's a there's a meaning to all this
It's like you don't you don't need to
overly explain or have dialogue that is is
Bringing this up in
Vocal ways you can have it just be visually
Yeah
Besides just having bad dialogue to justify what's happening on screen. I felt like there were weird things that would happen that
They wouldn't have to address and and it was unnecessary if you actually wanted it to be
mysterious and interesting
Yeah, they made it. They made it literal like they wanted to be like they tried to make the
absurd of the
Yes, you know, you know I'm saying I do yeah, it's like yeah
They tried to
That's literal like they they try to give you too many answers
It seemed like I've heard that there's a difference with the original
Spanish film is that they kind of leave it open-ended and they kind of leave it up to the the viewer but they
This film vanilla sky really tries to wrap a bow on it and it just comes off
We will definitely get to that and that that is for sure what I'm alluding to as well as that that elevator seen at the end is the most like
Yeah, Deus Ex Machina kind of tie a bow around it sort of bullshit and
Yeah, that would
Yeah, like I would imagine a European art artsy film would
Be a little bit more just like let's place interesting ideas in the audience's mind and have them work it out a bit
Yeah
So
You had kind of mentioned and I think this is really to me crucial to enjoyment of this movie is
Tom Cruise's character comes off as very unlikable very quickly
And you are not on board with him as your main protagonist at all
Because of the situation of how he treats Cameron Diaz
But then more specifically to the point of the dialogue being so direct is him and Jason Lee are
Talking and having I just the way that those guys interactive this rata tat tat to the
played tennis
Is so lame like they just have this whole
It's such simple machismo where both of them are just immediately talking about chicks and fucking chicks
And then Tom Cruise goes on to say like he has this whole
Johnny oh
One of my first yeah, it's like Julie Gianni is a lame name
I hate that name so much because it's just it doesn't fit Cameron Diaz as much either
But I don't know doesn't fit Cameron Diaz first and foremost
And right whatever
It sounds too much like Rudy Giuliani to me
I know that's what it is
It's like that's the heart of it
It's like the same name and I don't like it
I
Also already don't really care for Cameron Diaz. I've been on this pod saying as much but like
I'm with you there another hitter miss
She just annoys me. I don't know. I'm sorry, you know, I don't mean to be so
Luckily, she's supposed to be annoying in this movie. But yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, does she doesn't always work for me
And in this movie that she is so annoying, right? Like it wouldn't it be more interesting if she wasn't annoying
And it wasn't so easy for her to be diss like just cast away and disregarded and so, you know
There's actually some I don't know a little bit more emotion to
It would have provided a little bit more value to than what comes where he tries to protect her from doing something stupid
You just I don't know they could have they could have played with the tensions so much more because this movie doesn't
Doesn't do that
It just waffles around in like some of the romantic parts of it
Which is very much the Cameron crow side of it is like the Penelope cruise and him like falling in love is and their relationship
Is a big portion of it, but if you're are trying to make more of like a surrealistic sort of
Thriller sexual thriller sort of movie, I don't know
I there's a there's a version not to just pluck and change certain things that'll make it better
But I think there is something interesting about a stalker and like that voyeuristic side of that in a movie like this and
Having that be more of a slow burn about
Somebody's following me and she's like out to get me and said it's like status
Right when he wakes up after Penelope cruise
She is there and then the accident like happens immediately and then this portion of the movie with him going through
those those dark moments
It drags in such strange ways when everything is so truncated in the end to justify the the means it's like
you could have
Place a lot more foreshadowing you could have a lot more like threads throughout and said it just seems like
This it's not as purposeful as it as it could be if it's trying to do that. Otherwise, it's not as
surrealistic and weird and and stylish in a way that
Is
I don't know like a morass steer and not as so direct because camera camera crew
I just think as much as he has me good movies has a little bit harder time with that and there's some of like
Yeah, the romantic moments and the music drops that he knows how to do that stuff for the most part
Yeah, I absolutely agree and it this movie does feel like him pushing himself to go in a different place
To try to solidify him as a director is being able to make a artsy movie and a thinker rather than just to feel good
straightforward movie, you know
be it romantic comedy or drama and he handles drama very well in
His movies in the past like the drama even though he didn't direct but the drama written in
Fast Times of Ridgemont High is fantastic. It's pretty dark and a little heady
You know about the concepts that characters are dealing with and then also to what Jerry
Handled while in that movie too like
Absolutely, so he has some strengths and it's understandable
you know why he might gravitate towards this because at the core and maybe
at the core it's about
Happiness and love
But none of that is done
I don't know death and
And and like you're like so summing up your life in a in a way and that's that tells me
And maybe somebody going through some sort of midlife thing
Possibly and the death of their their parents maybe or their their father
Possibly because that's such like such a big part of the beginning and end of this movie
Surprisingly like it brings that back up when you're like, oh wow. Yeah
I well like the whole Kurt Russell character and everything which I'd love to talk about
Yeah
Because this is where it started it does starts this you know stream and
What time period is this and why is he wearing this mask and what's going on here?
But love that he's in the movie, you know, I Kurt Russell can't can't really do any wrong as far as I'm concerned
Kind of the best and to know that he
The retroactive thing that I had I would have the most fun with with this movie when it's trying to say all these dream things
It's like okay, whatever
But the fact that I want to know if he really was trying to do like a slight little
Gregory Peck thing and I was I would like to go back
I'm not going to but maybe like just trying to think I'm like, oh, is he doing any peck peck mannerism
I completely agree because it was so undeserved
But that the revelations that happened in the last ten minutes of this movie with and the associations like really heady concepts that you know sure
Like quotes or trivia about this movie that I saw was you know
Cameron Crowe being like this movie is designed in a way that is like so deep that you can like I don't
like
If you want to go deeper you can I guess is the way that he described it and there are
things in this that
Makes sense why he would say that but I just I don't think to great success, right?
He places his own tinge on it. I'm sure and I think that's one of them
That seems to be a Cameron Croweism of like placing that in and that little montage of the end of all the images of like
Oh, look the cover for the river by Bruce Springsteen was like one of the like the
The summing up like little pieces of art at the end is just like that. There's things like that that are very
Cameron
Free will
Oh, that was that was see that was a satisfying thing as well
of like
Speaking of like redoing something like him redoing this movie for him to reenact like an album cover. I thought that was
That was pretty cool. And like that was like a weird subconscious thing for me when I first saw it
I was like, why does that look like a fucking blast to that scene? Yeah?
Oh, he must have gone to the same same spot and everything
I would assume you probably had fun by and large because in his mind
I think to what we've brought up already like the point of I
I this does really seem like such a passion project of Cameron Crowe
I think there's a good amount of really screen in this like and him being able to
To mess around like yeah, like when they're just hanging out in the bed
And like there's those little still images of like it'll it'll it'll it'll pause and then it'll jump cut like pause and then jump cut
And then the whole mole conversation everything to this just like that that kind of thing is what he's trying to instill like this sort of natural
Quality to the sort of thing but then you have Tom cruiser where it just comes across as
Just kind of contrived and he's a creepy man. He's just kind of creepy in some of those creep in those moments. We're just intense
He's very intense
It's like a guy I feel like you can hang out with him for hours upon hours and you wouldn't know anything about him after like
Nothing and he would talk a lot. Yeah his you know persona. I guess he's very he just comes off like weirdly cold and
Yeah, which is dead in the
Like a doll's eyes
Yeah, did you guys like Penelope Cruz in this? I loved her in it. She's my favorite part of the movie
Yeah, easily
Easily any scene she's in I'm like here's somebody that's tuned into this fucking movie that gets the
Understands the assignment and like is bringing so much emotion
Which is like Tom Cruise is creating a vacuum of void of emotion
That's like that's where I need I need something like love and tenderness filling this fucking void
Were you having?
Where you say like the people like need to talk like they're dreaming like that's not necessarily true because she finds a way to
Be a person in this
Right
Even like the dividing line when it does as they say become a dream at the end and she picks him up from the street
It felt so unnatural that she just like
It already felt like like such a weird scene with the lighting of the sunset and you slept on the street and she was like
All of a sudden like oh, I'm let's turn this around
My life is gonna change forever. Isn't it like that had that that kind of line happened at that moment, which is like what?
Like my life is gonna change forever from starting from this moment and
What like it was and then you find out that is a dream
But then she has just so much sincerity to her
Performance and I'm sure it helps that she's playing it for the the second time
Are you did you like some of like the Kurt Russell and like the Penelope Cruise performances Weston or?
Yeah, I thought Penelope Cruise was just natural and like
Obviously like beautiful and just kind of fit in there really nicely. I thought but
I mean Kurt Russell was
Funny to me like when he popped up, okay?
I don't know how he got in this but it's it's definitely fun seeing him not in a very Kurt Russell movie like this was
Interesting to see him play like this
Just kind of downplayed
Psychiatrists psychiatrist, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, like father figure. I guess the first time food is
I like he did get pretty goofy Kurt Russell at the end, which I really liked
Yeah, yeah, where he's like so if I just wanted him to come back now. He just runs out the door. He's like, hey, you gotta get out of here
When he finds out he's a fucking
Machination for it. He's like my mortality is entertainment. What do you mean?
He's like this whole like breakdown on top of a building. I was like, what the fuck am I watching right now?
Like what is going on like I'm this guy is I'm feeling for the emotions of this made-up thing and
Tom it's like an inception more than Tom Cruise in that moment person like getting sad or something
Right or like an NPC. Yeah, fine. He's an NPC. He's an NPC. Yeah, like an NPC in a video game
You know having it that a life outside of you playing them where it's just them being like nothing this, you know
They're only there to serve you and it's so interesting. But man, yeah, just I would like to hear his opinions on outback steakhouse
If you're like, oh, so you got outback. So what do you order?
He's like I get the flamin yarn with the side potato and the squab rat. Okay. Okay
What are your daughter's names? I
Love the Wednesday night outback in-house move. I think that's so funny
I'll back in-house move. I think that's such a fun family move
It was black
Yes, that was such a silly line silly s-line. Yeah, I like
These black Angus night black Angus night with the daughters. Oh, I have two daughters as you know
I would love the god to be a fly in the wall for a
Black Angus night with Kurt Russell. Oh come on. I mean come on
I want that movie over this movie
I was sad when he was I was actually yeah, like kind of sad when he said he was leaving
I'm glad that he stuck around a bit longer
But like he's like this is where I go like I'm not gonna be at the trial and I was like Kurt Russell don't leave the movie
You were like a nice little like presents the whole time now. I'm stuck with Tom Cruise and his mask
so
after the introduction of Kurt Russell, there's the party that happens and
It's
introduces us to
Penelope Cruz also John likey
Galakies in the city. Galakies there. Yeah, and Timothy Spal
Love that spals here. I
We just did a spall. It feels like a dream a good one
Yeah, really just such an interesting face that guy is such a interesting look. This is the same party that has the
scenes
Timberholda martini
Meet cute with Penelope Cruz. Karen Diaz goes to his room take takes off all her clothes and then like a costume when he walks in
Yeah, absolutely and
No one knew she was up for party. Did they did the other?
Yeah, you know that he was there. Yeah, how did he how did she get to that point if she wasn't invited?
She was just there never left the bedroom. She never left the bedroom
Right, maybe that's what it is as they hit the party is the same night and she just
Could be it but it has a lot of Jason Lee
The combo stuff which man I just drunk Jason Lee drunk which man his cuz he says he's drunk like five fucking times
That's how you know so drunk. I drank so much this evening. Look at how drunk I am
I'm Jason Lee
I'm Jason Lee. What are you doing? Oh, I'm a cuck. Oh, I'm constantly getting cucked in this whole movie. I'm Jason Lee
You can have my girl
Oh
Man he drove me nuts
Character kind of took me out of it. I don't know. I mean
He was just thrown in there as like the cool. I mean obviously the bro, you know, but dude. Yeah, it's a classic
Lee I just I don't know. Yeah, I just I they have such little chemistry. They seem like
Bros just by like guilt by association like exactly big time cuz he's just like what like
Publishing his book that he's writing. Oh, and it really does at first like feel like a
Business relationship which I guess works for the movie. But when that like no, we're best friend
But then they like try to push it at the end. I was like, oh, no, we're best friends and he did this three-day memorial
I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I didn't buy that best friend. Yeah
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're right to me
No, it's cuz yeah, cuz Tom Cruise doesn't have friends. What's that purposeful though? Like maybe in a little bit is yeah
Absolutely, cuz I think if I were just posited to you know
The at least the way that I interpret the like wavelength of this movie is that again, this is like a yuppie asshole
This is a guy who's been gifted everything in his life. Yeah, everybody everybody in his life is really just very like
Functionary like they're just here because he has the power and everybody's trying to use them which
That's the wavelength that this movie would like to operate in because then from that wavelength you build upon the anxiety of
his relationships with everybody and how
He gets kind of into conspiracies and he just can't trust anybody
All of that is built into this idea that again, it's just it's I
I understand to degree what this movie is trying to do
But then if you were to take a step back you're like, but this isn't a likable character at all. Why do I give a shit?
Right like why do I care about this fucking good-looking?
Millionaire that doesn't have any real relationships and treats women like shit like okay
He's falling in love with Penelope Cruz
But even the stuff he brings to the relationship is almost nothing just pure infatuation like aren't I like it's almost like aren't I great?
You should be falling in love with me. It's not like we ever see him do anything really that nice for
Penelope Cruz or really go out of his way. He just immediately goes into this whole of
You know the car accident stuff
Yeah, yeah, yeah
He almost takes on like Cameron Diaz's role to Penelope Cruz and he's kind of like
Following her around and making her his life and his way out of this situation
But I mean you're spot-on with all of that stuff and like leading up to the car accident
It was already just like I don't really care about this guy because he's he was with Cameron Diaz
He drops her goes for his friends date
Yeah, like that's a fucking dick move like he's just right when he sees her is just like already like and then
You know after all of that the things that do happen which are terrible like awful things happen to him
The awful thing being the car accident
It's hard for obviously you have pity for him and everything
But it's like this is a man that started with every like he has a beautiful face and now he doesn't have a beautiful face anymore
So has everything else he seems like he has headaches. Unfortunately. That's it's hard to me
But it's just hard to have full
You know
Empathy 100% with him when it's really just about like I don't look as good anymore
So on that point it's like it's it's fucked up because he is obviously like going yeah, he's going through a lot
That's right, but it's just it's what what's everything led up to him. It just like in
The mood in the shape of the movie, but maybe I sound like an asshole on them
No, no, no, I think you're right on which I would be remiss to not bring up especially with that point that you just made about it
the
vanilla sky featuring and Connie West song through the wire where he is talking about
Emotionally being devastated because his face isn't going to look as good anymore
And that makes it into the line and do a song through the wire which I would potentially argue is his best song
It's a great song and it's very sad and just because you're successful and just because you have everything like whatever
Doesn't mean like you deserve something bad happening to you, but within the context of the movie
It just doesn't really put you on his side and the way that he
holds on to Penelope Cruz after that is unfair to her and
Just because they had one wonderful night together
I'd word I guess they were together for for a bit
But if she's gonna go and live her own life and everything and how it changes from that moment
I guess is what where we're getting to is
I'm I'm kind of satisfied with discussing what we know from the end of the movie like spoilers sort of situation because
This is the point where it goes into dreamland of like when he's in the gutter and he wakes up
And that was another upsetting thing of me of like when you do find out when it turns into dreamland and cryo
I
Assumed it was the whole fucking movie and why not make it the whole man the dude is a fuck like has everything
It seems like he's like on top of the world like he's you know, he's he's handsome. He's
He's he's with attractive women and he's like the boss of like, you know, whatever journalism sort of company and all this stuff and
Like that and the fact that they're like no all of that stuff before is still there all of that stuff is real
But it's past that and it's past
The point when he was in the gutter and when he should have a redemption arc and this is getting into my whole beef with a movie
But he should have a redemption arc at this moment at this moment
He should be redeeming himself in which he kind of does you kind of see him heading there
And then they fucking take it away at the end and they tell you know, he didn't redeem himself at the end
Spoiler alert he
Unalived himself at that moment, which is the most depressing fucking thing to ever like I don't know to put in this movie is so fucking depressing
Rather than like oh like he each he made it, you know, all that is true
And he made a redemption sort of thing and said no it's like it just got worse from there and that just is so grim
It's so grim in this movie and it's it's strange that when the dream logic is upsetting when they make you think about it so much
Yeah, that's a tape. Yeah, that tastes in my mouth from from all and the logic fuck fucks with me
Yeah, I mean I agree with you because
It just yeah cuz so up until this point in the conversation even we've talked about how there is a lot of dream
like things that have been a part of the movie and
Yeah, to then know that the dream actually starts kind of halfway through it is so
But then why did they start you off with a steam?
Where like the first scene is him going in a Times Square and there's nobody there. Yeah, wasn't that was was that already in the
Because the already in cry wrote cry cry wrote cryo chamber at no because it's at the it's at the point when he's in the gutters
When that begins because he goes to them after that moment and then takes all those all those pills and everything
But that's where this movie is fucking annoying
Because it just throw a shit ton of red herrings at you leading up to that moment
They're throwing red herring after red herring to make you think like oh, what's a dream? What's not a dream?
Whoa Cameron Crowe you're making you're putting my mind in a flurry
But it's just trying to fuck with you and not purposely not unlike a I don't know in a way that's satisfying and in my mind
the switching of the faces with like Penelope cruising and Cameradillas was
somewhat
Interesting but also like in like a vertigo sort of way almost I like I like that kind of stuff
But it's just it's hammy a lot of this is is hammy through thriller stuff
Yeah
But what do you guys think of the second half lead like when he
After the accident like what do you guys do is there a half that you prefer is what do you think of the?
This this portion of him with these scars
Trying to make his way in life as as a as a disfigured man. Yeah, I
It's a pretty upset it's upsetting shit, but there was a moment though in it where I was on
Like giving like I was noticing the
acting prowess of Tom Cruise where he is able to
put all of these situations on top of his character and that
Come out physically and the and also the way that he delivers his dialogue
It does have all of the past experiences attached to it, you know where it's so
Yeah, I don't know it was very good to a degree
I mean ultimately what he ends up doing and what he says at times still was tough
But like I don't know his physicality after the accident. I thought was genuinely pretty good club
Seen stuck out to me. Yeah, I just say that scene. Yeah
That was interesting it was especially for the fact I
Notice where a very terrible job by the bartender that if somebody is
If you're giving somebody just line up of shots
So first off somebody asks you for shots and then you just give them six in a row so that they say it to my face bitch
Say it to my face bitch. Do you have patron?
Um
God I love how yeah, he kind of the bartender met him at that point, but
In the idea that a bartender is why is it free because I said so
Continue I'm so
Yeah, it's just like you would get in so much trouble
This is what I was kidding. Yeah, like you would get in so much trouble as a bartender
If you just kept serving somebody drinks to the point. They're they're so drunk that they just yell
Oh my god, that was just screaming the name of a liquor that they're drinking could you imagine you're like, okay?
It's like chill. All right, dude. I do like the look of having a mask
What do you call it the guy? Oh, yeah, Harry Potter
Yeah, like
Quirrell professor quarrel style just having a face on your on the back of your head
It's like he's got two faces man or malignant malignant style brandy
It's so malignant style. Have you seen that one Weston? Have you seen? Oh, I need to
Check out malignant. It's awesome. That's pretty great. The scale got broken
Container review
Yeah, then the classic
Oh
What how does it go like I will talk about this and then another life when we're both here another life when we're both cats
Yeah, and then it yeah, just gets it gets very dark
There's this moment where like he is talking to both Penelope Cruz and Jason Lee and like upsetting both of them
First Penelope Cruz is like, okay, I gotta go and then she just runs away
She just starts running she doesn't walk. She's like, okay, I'll see you guys later
Like I'm done with this and then she starts running and the Jason Jason Lee is like, man
You got to pull yourself together and they have like a brief conversation. He's like, yeah, whatever fuck you man
He's like, all right fine. Bye. And then he just starts running
Is he that like Tom Cruise is that just like
Get away. I mean I could understand it
Because if he was so drunk that he just fell asleep on the sidewalk. Yeah, man talk about being drunk
He's in a dark level. Yeah, dude. He was yeah, he was going through stuff
Then I guess you get the fake redemption arc and then you get the
Facial reconstruction thing and all of this is just played so it's just so hokey how it's played you find out later
It is dream logic, but in the moment you don't and there's nothing. I don't know
There's there's there's a lot of things that fuck with you where like once he gets his face reconstructed from that point on
Almost every scene there's like is it though? Is it reconciled is it back to normal?
I don't know like almost every scene. There's there's a moment and like he's laying on the pillow
It's like on half of his face, yeah
We're gonna say what oh
The that the moment in the film where he won't take his mask off because he's afraid. Um, yeah
Brandon go into that hole. Yeah. Yeah
um
because that's
Such a huge misdirect because at this point in the movie so Tom Cruise is in jail
But we don't really know why it has to do with
Yeah, we don't I don't I don't think we fully know but then there's so there's a lot of cutting back and forth in this
Middle latter half of the movie where it is Kurt Russell trying to get out of him
You know almost a confession
so it leans into this idea that everybody is out to get Tom Cruise because that has been kind of like
An undercurrent as well in the movie where
potentially what's going on is the seven dwarves are trying to take over the business so they are
They're responsible for Cameron Diaz
And then also too now Tom Cruise is feeling like most people he's interacted with are actually hired by the seven dwarves to
derail him or consider or get him to a point where people can easily consider him incompetent and
so that he can't run his company anymore and
All of that is really to no avail
You know like there isn't some I don't know a scene where they actually do take over the company
But we spend a lot of time with this idea that I mean right before the twist is revealed it essentially
like Timothy Spall comes back and is like
These are the pictures
The board and I have it all figured out and or is he does he get away with it because they they say she's not pressing charges
That's before he talks to Timothy Spall about stuff
Spall is like saying like him him and the board have it figured out
I don't know another big British actor who plays another Harry Potter person
No, we got Noah Taylor we got a we got Charlie Bucket's father and yeah, we got Timothy Spall Peter pedigree
Oh, yeah, is there another Harry Potter? No, no, no, that's it. Sorry. Yeah, yeah
I do like that we got double dipings of Noah Taylor though because he's pretty great. Yes the no Taylor
I've been confusing him with
I wouldn't be surprised
Potter I
Don't think so, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was I was like, I'm right. I'm sure he's looking background somewhere
No Taylor was in
We did a Charlie and the chocolate factory. He was a when he was father pop a bucket. Oh
Okay, yeah
So now now we're in like the which who's who Sophia and Julia
Julie
And do I have a face or not and and this whole portion is
Like I the thing with this movie is I want to like it and there's multiple portions
Where I feel like it's like starting up again into a new interesting direction
And this is one of those directions are like, oh, like you're not really sure if it's fully and
Like right off the right off the beginning of it. I'm like, okay
Let's see where this goes and it just rapidly declines into a point where I just I declined to care
Movie and the stylistic elements don't push me over the edge
In fact, they kind of hold me back and upsetting way when it's like I do like this song
But I don't know how it applies to this or I don't know if it's being used in the best way
Or I don't know if we need to be record dropping here
Yeah, I agree especially the let's be friends by Todd Rungren in the scene where suffocates
I was like right after it slowly it slowly builds up into the bridge of the song where it does that
I don't know what that that that that that that that that that that
Hmm
Great some great teams they got the like heaven by stones that song is like a great poll. I like that
You like that one Western?
Heaven by rolling stones, that's a good one. I'm trying to remember which scene that was because I I'm thinking of the
Cigar Ross song was big for me that in the end, you know, the Cigarosa or C. Ross, yeah
And it was a chemical brother song in the near the end there, too
I was looking at the the soundtrack I can I can list off if I mean, yeah, they had a couple of radiohead songs
I had everything in its right place and I
Might be wrong from amnesiac or I remember but it was there. Yeah, there was the Beach Boys good vibrations
Which I just I just thought that was just like a little forced as well. Yeah a lot of it kind of felt very music video
to me it was hard for me to kind of I
Guess take that part of the movie seriously, but maybe that's the point, too
Maybe it's supposed to come off sterile and commercialized and just you know a little bit. Yeah
The problem is just yeah, it's like the whole movie feels like that so it's in the yeah
And then yeah when it becomes a dream is a silly silly thing in my mind
And I think it was like you just make the whole thing about a dream, you know
Because then the whole thing you can justify it being a fucking weird and everything but now it's like oh no just this part
It's like so how do you explain?
Because all that shit was fucking weird, too
Exactly
But like the the the cryo thing is a running running plot line
That is the one thing that is foreshadowed constantly in the movie. Well, the bennie bennie the dog situation and it's like this applies
Like somehow I guess but it's also
I thought it was just referring to him going through a coma, you know life something what is it called after life or new life or something
Yeah, it's like life planning life just something like that, but
That shit
Was an interesting addition to the movie until it wasn't like it's it's something that like in better hands could have been handled in a
cooler way like a Charlie Kaufman like a spike Jones like a
Michelle Gondry or some shit, you know like there's there's a cool interesting
bananas weird way to do this and and it's a little commercial like you're saying like this movie is a little commercially
realistic and
this is the point where it all is is
Is coming together being climbed the climactic moment and I'm kind of just more frustrated and then I don't know
I think we're pretty much at this Noah Taylor
Elevator scene right where it all yeah, I would just say to them so go is like my forgetting, you know all of the
Pop culture-ness of this movie is supposed to be attributed to that is what Tom Cruise would base his life on
Mm-hmm, and so all of it has a meta commentary that
Somebody would have these songs playing in the background of their life because that's the songs that they grew up with and they would have
You know to speak to the note Noah Taylor stuff that the monologue he goes on
About how you've made up all of these things and they're based on pop culture references that have influenced your life
Mm-hmm, but again, that's that sounds cool. How you describe it sounds cool, right?
Yeah, it just doesn't pay off in like a super satisfying way like no not at all if that's that's a big one for me that I
kind of wish was kind of
Just this the way that Benny the dog was kind of sprinkled throughout the movie
The dog I would have liked his pop culture
side of him kind of sprinkled in a better way throughout because I don't know you see him reaching for music
Oh, you want to listen radio head? I don't know and then he gets almost gets into the first accident
but
You see some posters on his wall, you know, you and to know that and then I've never I've actually never seen jewels in Jim
So I should watch that movie
But I would like to see if I do I would like to see if Penelope Cruise pulled anything from that for this performance for Penelope
sky if she was trying to because that's what it was kind of saying is that she was kind of
His jewels and Jim sort of reference and
All of this said you find out at the end of this movie that
Yeah, it's not all of it is a dream, but up to this point is it is a dream
and when he describes that and as I said earlier that like
bummed me out so much it is so depressing
How he his character goes out in like reality
And then you find out that he has he's done that in reality
And then what is his solution to get back into reality?
To kill himself kill himself again, but like that's I don't know
I kind of is it weird that I have like an issue with that like they're kind of idealizing suicide in a way
Like and as a way to crossing over and all that shit like I don't know that that shit
And it's like all of a sudden he's afraid of heights which was just
Broaden in the very last second as well all these things that have no payoff because they're introduced so late
But the fact that he has to do that twice at the end of the movie is such a fucking bummer
Yeah, it is a bummer because
It's trying to say something about
A person like Tom Cruise's reality and it is also commentary on existence from the director and the writer
And it is a grim reality where all of these influences
Are
Part of this imagination that you create for yourself
But
Does does he yeah like
Sorry, no, no, no you go go go or just I'm thinking like okay
So even like the little ellipsis that's put into the character
ellipsis that's put on the end of this movie
Do you think in his dream life in crypto for the past 150 years that he's mentally worked on himself enough to be ready for life in the fucking future?
No, right like why like the movie is like wow
He's he's and his eyes wake up and now he's ready for life and he's gonna it's like no he's not equipped for that
What's gonna happen?
Changer of of moral character like for the better in his and his character are
At least to me like there doesn't seem yeah, I know I agree. Yeah
Any moral progression or anything he conquers his his completely random fear fights
They mentioned what once in the movie about
Because he talks about his dad's
He was talking about his dad's book to Kurt Russell and
Like referencing like almost like his dad is the type of person who would jump out of a plane
Oh, right he rescinded him for having a fear of heights. All right. That's also representative of
His fervor for life or like his existence and it's this yeah, it's just a weird commentary on
You know how that generation and this generation are different and you could
Get to a place with this movie where you're like what it's saying is that
This new reality is
I don't know like not
Yeah, no, it's not that it's not worth it
But I don't know I guess now I'm just thinking about the question that is reiterated in this movie a couple times which is like
What makes you happy is it
Right like multiple characters say like what makes you happy
And does the movie answer that question because if it doesn't I don't think the movie then accomplished its mission
Yeah, I don't think
I don't I think this movie is convoluted to say the least and then it tries to justify that
state of affairs throughout the script and then it tries to justify that
state of affairs throughout the script and whatnot with a
You know a quick little
expository wrap up
Through the like tallest, you know building in the longest elevator, which is a dream so whatever it can go as long as it wants but
It's
That does not make it a good movie and there's and unfortunately
it's not necessarily because of
Those reasons that Noah Taylor describes of that twist
I think there is a maybe a version of this movie where that works and there literally is
Maybe not with all the others. I don't know if the cryo how much of the cryo stuff is involved in the original
But there is an original movie that is able to exist and was popular enough to create a
Remake of it. So within four years of that one existing
So I think there's like something there to this movie, but yeah, whatever he put on top of it was like
I don't know. Oh, look at this delicious steak that it was well prepared and I could eat it
I could eat it again the same exact way. Well, what if I put like a fucking peanut butter and
jelly sandwich
You know like the steak in between the two so it's like a peanut butter jelly steak sandwich
My name is Cameron Crowe and here's your new movie. It's just unnecessary, you know, it's like it's
Because Cameron Crowe really likes peanut butter jelly sandwiches like that's cool man
You're working through some stuff and this is the stuff you like
It just doesn't really work as well in this situation. Maybe an almost famous one
It's about music and it's about pop culture and everything but
Yeah, that movie that movie has a simple message though about
Growing up in a way that makes coming a page is a big thing for him. Yeah, and I think I just got a romance
Yeah, they try to have a Jerry McGuire moment. I feel like in this movie of like, you know
You don't drag me down. I drag me down. There's there is that moment with him at Penelope Cruz, but just sucks
Put him in a body bag I
There's a yeah, I mean, I don't know I just I don't fully yeah, it's not that I disagree with you at all about what you just said
It's a harsh. I'm sorry. Maybe I was just and that's coming from a place
You know not to not as a cop out but again, like I wanted to walk wanted to like this movie
What did you do?
The movie starts with Radiohead and has like a bunch and REM multiple times and like all this great music and
You know, it's revisiting it for a second time. I just I don't know it
Was frustrating when it didn't reach whatever potential I had in my mind. I guess maybe that's on me, but also like it's a
It's a frustrating
pace to go through
To say the least
But I don't know I can go through like look through my notes real quick before we go into some reviews
Tom Cruise running you gotta have Tom Cruise running. He's wearing a silly bucket hat through the office
Super silly that cost. Yeah, the costumes are very of the time Michael Shannon
I mean great Michael Shannon for what what he's doing. He's just
Just kind of grimacing
Spielberg right showed up at the party. Oh Spielberg, right?
Well, and he's I love how like he's wearing his bomber jacket and it's like Steve. It's a party. Come on, man
We're like relax. We're something you're not directing a movie here
What if like sit on like a director's chair and be like hey, thanks for having me you can't turn it off
I just can't know he can't and then they have a cold train hologram there at the party
They're the tech in this movie
That was that uh, but that's like a nice thing where they don't draw too much attention to it. They're just like hey
There's cold train. Oh
Yeah, where does that TV go?
All the way into the ground and then a part of the ground opens up and then that
Enormous bar it no it just goes like right out of frame and then it doesn't exist anymore
And they're we're like pets it. He's like good TV. Good TV. Yeah, it's good
You look you love that you love to see it when you just pet your robots and you're like you did a good job
You know you did what you came here to do
Citizen dildo. Yes, this is Nick name
Would you guys I don't know having a wall-sized mural of your your dead father in your apartment is is quite the decision
Yeah, it's also art. Yeah, it's also very close. It's not a
I don't know it's not a
It's like artistic
It's like a war haul it's bizarre you're like staring down on a
He is a pleasure delayer you like sedging
That's all you that's that's what he said he's a pleasure delayer. He likes to delay pleasure. He likes edging
Big edger big. I'm an edgillard energy. Um, what was it? There was a line I had about
Not letting anybody in unless they get a full bow. You don't let happiness in without a full body search
That kind of shit dude that line is the same
I'm like a book that I maybe like I'll read the novelization. It's just too much too well-written. I
Love to have good of a drawer
Just a perfect character
It was done by a professional. Yeah, he's got like cars and women and money
And then his is like some artful thing. It's like come on. We're doing caricatures get over yourself
Life the sequel I guess that's how they advertise that cryo thing
I can tell by the way you were walking you didn't sleep with her is what Cameron Diaz says to him after he walks away from Penelope
Oh my god, she also said in in this movie that she let him where is it?
It's like let in let him come in her four times that means something that means something
I swallowed your cup
You came four times and I swallowed your gum and then I just put dot dot dot geez
And she's playing music for him and he and he says it's vivid it's vivid
She has her own music
Conan there's the Conan bit. Yeah, you're you're an OJ land
Yeah, Conan's always good
You had a nightmare everything's a nightmare
Till the Swinton man, we got a young till this one. Oh my god. She's so I love her
Rips and there's a goofy table that just sees a video for you. I love that
This is like the kind of the spike Jones kind of moment where it's like you're yeah, this kind of hokey shit
Yeah, what do you think when they took you into the facility and you you see the you know the corporation behind this?
Right. It's a reason like the the stone. I like yeah, I like to the design
Oh and till this one was a perfect like the casting the cast in this movie is like not bad
Like say what you will about hit or miss Tom Tom Cruise Cameron Diaz. Maybe like switch
But still it's like it's not a bad bad cast and there's there's a movie to be had here and I don't know there's yeah
It's interesting
Madonna had that song borderline. Hello the song
I
Was like some background conversation some guy was having I think at the place or at the hospital
Oh, no, is that the hospital when they were working on his face? I think
Yeah, they were working on his face and then it was like the doctors were saying and they're so what do you want to go eat later?
Oh, yeah, Madonna had that song borderline. The hell was on
He sings into that operating room, too. That's what I was upsetting. He's got a hell of a voice
Got a hell of a voice. Oh
What did she say I have no idea
Weird can't the weird camera thing Jason Lee has the restaurant that was goofy
This is a revolution of the mind
You have revealed yourself to me you have revealed yourself to me
Or a camera or is it camera DS? I don't know which at that point for these like you have revealed yourself to me
He yells a lot of great stuff in this movie
There's a lot of that where you can do a part of a supercut's got to be some of this movie because him meowing
Yeah, he brought up he yells a bunch and can I say the next rupee face? Oh, yeah, it's just a lot of like
Yeah, the meowing with the face was rough and then the thing he yells at the end of the movie a bunch is
He goes up the elevator and that's that's the movie and then you get the little montage of like images and
And pop culture and stuff that have influenced his life
You learn that he's got daddy issues and you wanted Kurt Russell to be his Gregory pack
Oh, I mean obviously he's got daddy issues
Oh, I wanted to say it was really fun that it said the line was like
greatest movies or like your favorite movies and then it was
dr. No
Yes
The man go yeah, nurse a lot him and Ursula on the beach classic. I mean come on
Yeah, great movie
Excellent excellent film and it would probably run in through the final moments of my life as I'm shuffling off as well
No, that was great
Oh, yeah, and then you also tell like they tell him that he has like no resources when he wakes back up like he has no money
I'm like
You didn't gain any interest or he did that's anything like before you like you know a bunch of money
I don't know. You don't have any money anywhere. Well, yeah, who would do this then?
You've only been doing this for a year
These offer it was 150 years. Oh
It was I think is what they said and you don't see whatever future land looks like but John Taylor's like quite a lot has changed
seven right
Let's hear from you know what he actually says is
Forgive me. I'm blowing your mind. Oh, yeah, fuck that
Because that's what the movie is trying to tell you to is like isn't this blowing your mind right now
Huh, sorry, I'm blowing your mind right now. Wow
I'm gonna do some
Reviews here you guys want to take any breaks or anything. We're good to roll on through. Oh
We're good. Hell yeah, so good Weston. Thank you again for for joining us on on this shit up wild ride
You it's a great way to break up the week. I love a Wednesday night hang so yeah
Chance I can get to talk movies is just a great time. So this is
Yeah, this will not be the last time then you're on this podcast
And maybe we'll resurrect prod pod for if you ever want to talk music producers
I was our other podcast where we had with with a blanche there for a second Corey
But that would be fun if we were to resurrect that one you were more than welcome to join us on that one too
Anyways, let's love it vanilla sky
43% from the critics they did not care for it. Let's hear from some of the top critics on rotten tomatoes
David Anson Newsweek the real mystery here is
Why a filmmaker as talented and unique as crow would want to devote several years of his life to recreating someone else's movie?
That's a good point from Steven day Steven deGran
Good dayness decent films gave it a D
That's his rating system a riddle wrapped in a mystery and signed an enigma
The problem is the mystery and the enigma are in one movie and the riddles in an entirely different movie
That's a fun way to say it
Oh and gleamer man entertainment weekly if crows eyes are open he seems to have directed most of an Ellis guy with his mind wide shut oh
Put them in the buddy bag as brandy
Let's maybe do
Steven Hunter Washington Post a case of the vein leading the bland point five out of five
They're really coming out with the zingers for this one
From Mike Clark USA today what works in a quirky foreign film can look silly with expansive Hollywood treatment
totally I bet man I bet
That's got a good feeling for that for the critics. Let's check out some audience favored reviews 72%
From Parker five stars. I'll review this movie in another life when all of letterboxed as cats from letterbox
That's fun. That's so fucking fun from Dave of five stars
Some loved it most hated it. I'm firmly in camp love
I really admire this remake of the brilliant near perfect Spanish thriller open your eyes Tom Cruise bears his soul and his best performance
Since his days from born on the Fourth of July and Rain Man
Cameron Crowe spin on the story which involves the fusion of music hot culture images
Alternate realities and true romance is a Hollywood remake done well
Even if it does slightly pale in comparison with Alejandro. I'm in a bars vision
Which is darker ambiguous and much sexier Penelope in her own tongue is how Penelope should be
You know what I mean?
Vanilla sky certainly stands on its own merits as an invigorating piece of work. It's a real piece of work
From Jada five stars knew this was gonna be fire when it opened with the radio. It's uh, I
Wish I could agree
You didn't write that review I
Wish I wish man. I'm like, okay. Maybe this is the best movie ever. It's starting with kid a oh
It's gonna be as good as kid a then
This is from a fun little emote that the person put as their name that looks like a pig
I found this DVD at a thrift shop and thought it was about a pilot injured in an air battle or something
But wow the women are beautiful
Tom Cruise completely bodies his role and Vanilla sky touches on four movies worth of themes and ask some nice questions
The film is easy to follow at first then completely changes the style up. There was something weird in the middle of the movie
Where it felt like it could have ended at any time
Beautiful ending that could have been more implicit, but if it were dumb ass me probably wouldn't understand what happened
What an ethereal experience? I like how this person is like. I'm glad they explained it for me
I'm so glad I got an explanation
I needed it
Do one you guys catch the Ebert roper review no
They're pretty jazz I wish I it's like a one-minute clip on YouTube, but it's like they're
At the movies it's it's a pretty good excerpt they actually were fond of it. It's interesting to hear. Oh, yeah, I bet I love
Ebert and Robert
Yeah, let me see if I can find it here. I think I think this is a
Little three-minute one we can you can take a look at you
See what they have to say
Especially at this time like and and
Whenever I would get lucky enough to to catch him I was always so happy helps you like learn how to watch movies these guys
Yeah
Manhattan traffic is a nightmare, but absolutely no traffic is more of a nightmare for Tom Cruise in vanilla sky
It's one of six big holiday movies will review this week. I'm Richard roper and I'm Roger Ebert
But Ella sky is one of those mind game thrillers where neither the audience nor the characters can be quite sure what constitutes reality
The movie sensational opening shot in a deserted Times Square is only a dream
But what else is not what it is an amazing shot on cruise stars as a wiskett public
You know CG they just having an affair with Cameron Diaz when he falls in love at first sight with Penelope cruise
She's with his best friend
What are friends as he was his intercut with a deep in a little talk about their opinion calls into question cruise
Cameron crow based on the Alejandro a minnow bar Spanish film named open your eyes and also start Penelope cruise
And let me just ask one question
Is there something about the first three words of an Ella sky that calls into question?
Every single other thing that happens in the entire film listen carefully and decide for yourself
Yeah, you're right. You have to start paying attention really from the start and there are some other clues throughout this movie images on television screens
And it all it all comes together beautifully. This is spectacular film
I saw the original and that's sort of like the acoustic version and this is the full orchestrated version
But Cameron crow does a wonderful job
Very lacing this all together and you're so right about how the characters stay true to the moments they're in so we're not really
Sure, what's going on all the way through I found it to be fascinating
It's kind of a footnote for Tom Cruise to I'd shut the Stanley Kubrick picture and it involves a mask
It involves infidelities and involves mystery about exactly what reality consists of but it's it's more in the tradition
I think of movies like
Mahal and Drive where you really have to
Think back after you figure out what happened a lot of the best movies we've seen this year play around with dreams
And what's real and what's not mentioned waking life is another one obviously
Obviously
The biggest movie star in the world you got to give him
Like Magnolia and eyes wide shot not just the mission impossible which he does as well and makes the big money
But to do you know to put his power behind a movie like this to get people to see early in his career
He knew that there was a danger
He would just be a matinee idol and so he started right away doing pictures like born on the 4th of July and he continues
To look for these challenges to get nominated here and several other people should as well
Wow
Damn best movie ever well
Well
Let's get into
On par with Mahal and Drive
Yeah, not at all you can absolutely tell like it's I know there's plenty of times and like this is what it's wants to be is
Is that for sure? It's the most yeah, it's oh, let's you let's get into this gentleman. Okay, we
Will give it a yeah our guest the first go
But if you would like to go at any order feel free to let us know
What you're doing is you're giving a summation on how you feel about the movie and then you're assigning it
One out of a hundred like rotten tomatoes typically anything
What is it's above like 62 or 63% as fresh 60% is fresh on Ron tomatoes if you want to go by that metric
But you can yeah, it's a 60 and how they how they they have this weird like certified fresh thing
I still don't understand how low the bar is for that because I feel like we found like a 70 something percent that was
I certified fresh so I don't know
We're supposed to be experts, but
But yeah, if you want to go first feel free
I'll go first. I mean, I don't have a whole lot to say other than it's close to fresh for me
Like if I'm gonna go 58% isn't that that's probably where it floats around 57. I'll say 57
but I
think the movie
Sparks more conversation than it actually like it. I don't know what the movie tells you isn't much but
Discussing it brings up a lot. I think it's just an interesting time
especially for 2001
Why 2k era I'm always fascinated by films that come out during that time like go and other movies like that but
Yeah, I just didn't resonate with me personally
I'm yeah, I'll let you guys pick it up
Go for Brandon
Nice orange beanie by the way, I just noticed that we got similar orange beanies today. Oh
This movie, okay
This movie thinks it's smarter than it is it's
Ends of not being that enjoyable of it an experience overall because of certain make a plot points
But also the dialogue is really grading
There are at times interesting
Concepts and ideas in this movie, but I don't think they're executed very well and that's because mainly yeah
I mean, I don't know the movie tells us about certain things of this world that don't make sense
So I don't know I can't really get on board
With it to buy and large
So yeah, how do I feel about this movie? I would say that this movie is okay
I did like some of the performances a bit. I really think Penelope Cruz is really fantastic. I was excited by
Kurt Russell
Yeah, I don't know till the Swinton
Yeah, anyways, there's some good performances in this
And yeah to Weston to your point of like I think Tom Cruise in particular in his performances really warrant conversations
because I think he
Almost by accident is an
Accident because he's so purposeful and his career and that's what he's all about
We've talked in Ignosium about this idea that he is just such a like how do I be the biggest movie star on the planet?
And it really that narcissism or that ego
I
Don't know rears its head. Anyways warrants discussion. I'm gonna go
40% I'm gonna go solid 40
Well put yeah, I
Thought this movie was overall frustrating
Part of the reason too was because I was looking into it as a as a possible
I really do like this movie and I
I'm excited to watch it again because I don't remember a lot of it and I now I see why I don't remember a lot of it
There's nothing really to latch on to for me
the main character is unlikeable and someone that I'm not really rooting for a lot of times and
What happens with the twist ends up
Making me question the whole movie in a bad way not in the way that they think is gonna be like
Oh, you're gonna rethink it and like it's gonna be satisfying to see this twist
It just made me more frustrated that it wasn't cons the plot wasn't structured in a way to allow that twist to
Develop in a satisfying way. It was more just like they pulled the world rug out from under you and explain everything real quick
And then kick you out the door
but the implications for him were not good for for me and
Yeah, that I don't know I was thinking about when that dream started thing and like
All that logic kind of was thrown me for a loop and I know I shouldn't get so nitpicky about something that's
Because the reason I do that is because it tried so hard to explain itself at the end
If it didn't do that and if it did want to be more surrealistic and not try to explain itself
Then I would give it benefit of the doubt
But it's forcing me to try to think through its logic which is convoluted and reverse engineered and
not a fun way
Well cast and performances are good even you know even from like Tom Cruise and Camindillas
I'm trying to go on this new like as I said turn a new leaf with Camindillas and there was part of her performances like that I enjoyed as
You know being an intensely
like her her love is intense and her
Happiness is intense sort of thing which I kind of is
Almost kind of how I feel about her is like she's a lot and that comes across as like kind of phony and for that
the movies die like language and almost kind of
supports that but
Overall frustrating experience. I would not
Recommend and I would probably not watch again. I'm gonna go and but yeah, okay, so a couple positives
I guess yeah, like good, you know, yeah the good music. There's like stylistic elements that
Occasionally get me excited and performances and
There's the structure and and the bones of the plot is weird
Which makes it like campy enough in a way where you can kind of like laugh at it as opposed to with it
But then it ends up to go back to the negative just ends up getting too fucking dark and depressing at the end
It just is a bummer
So I'll do 42. I think is that's kind of where where I was at
Um for brandy and you started so I'm kind of right there with with him, but say I'd say 40s because there's enough
Artistry there and you can tell this is a director
That's just kind of like doing whatever the fuck they want and same with Tom Cruise and what ends up happening
Some of it sticks to the wall and a lot of it doesn't but some of it
Some of it
At this point I came up with a new game if you guys care to play a little
Fun movie game. I hope it's fun games
This one. I don't know what the name of it is. It's a guess that rank guess that rank
Guess that rank on okay?
Ranker this movie vanilla sky is represented in one two three four five six seven eight different lists
On ranker in terms of movies
So I'm gonna give you a category of one of these lists and it's up to you to guess what
Rank is on that list and I will tell you how many is on the range so
Weston do you want to go first or second?
I'll go second and I'm gonna do prices right rules as well. So you cannot go over
So best movies of 2001 that's the first category out of
113 Brandon what does vanilla sky rank on the best movies of 2001 list?
Uh 37 37
Weston what do you say?
46
46 you are closer. It is a 59 out of 113 of the movies of 2001
So you get one point for Weston
So you're gonna be going first on this next one the next category of list is out of 69 movies
What does this one rank as the most confusing movies ever made is the category out of 69?
Which does this rank one being the most confusing 69 being the least?
I'm gonna go
12 12
I'm gonna go 21
21 it is 14 so Brandon you went over
Over Weston you are very close with that you are too off from the 14 of the most confusing movies ever made
So you get another point that a win that's a win for Weston to
And to zero Brandon and then we go back to Brandon here for the next category
out of 130 movies
Which is the ranking for this movie on the 100 plus best movies for date night?
Which is a terrible idea do not put this movie on for date night, but out of 130 movies. What is this one rank?
75 75 okay
Weston to you
Out of how many a hundred and 130 date night movies
60 60
Brandon's gonna take this one is 124 out of 130
It's the bottom of the barrel for that list
Oh good
So I'm surprised it's even on there. Let's let's move it along. I believe Weston you're starting on this one, right?
This list is
The most utterly depressing movies ever made and they are the most confusing movies ever made
And there's 133 of them
What does this movie rank on the most utterly depressing movies ever made this I can get on board with and I love how they're both right next to each other
date night and
You could kill yourself twice to it
Ever made ever made out of 133
There's a picture of I think the road on the front of it
Oh, yeah, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna say 30. Let's go 30
All right
I'm gonna go 25 25
It is 108 so Weston you are a bit closer there is near the
Closer near the bottom there
Let's see here. So we got three Weston one to Brandon
You guys want to go a little bit a little bit further here
I'm down
Let's do it
We got a couple more categories to Brandon correct. We're at your next yep. All right 200 plus best film scores of all time out of 228
What is this one rank 228 this is gonna rank
123
What do you say Weston out of the 228 best film scores of all time? Where does this rank?
I can I don't even remember an original score. I just remember the song
Yeah, it's just a sound yeah
200
200 you are closer it is 225
You're running away with it
So it is it is four to one. We'll just play this out just to get these other lists categories out there just so we know
Let's go with the worst movie remakes ever
This goes to you Weston out of one right Weston or Brandon yep. Yeah
Out of 151. What is this rank as on the worst movie remakes ever?
There's a picture of fantastic
This is the
11th worst movie remake ever 11th worst movie remake ever. Okay Brandon. What do you what say you?
20 20 Brandon takes it
It is 97
So we're at four to two
I think
Brandon you could tie it which would just be a nice little fun thing. Otherwise Weston might be running away with that on these last two categories
Okay, what is it ranked on the 20 bad sci-fi movies that are actually good
Whoa, uh-oh
20 bad sci-fi movies
That are actually good. Where does vanilla sky come in that?
So picture a trauma legacy on there
Believe it's 20 bad side movies that are actually good
Yes
19
Fuck all right Brandon
I'm gonna go 20 20 fuck you guys
Are so close but West Weston you hit it directly on 18. It was 19. Oh
You got exactly exactly right. So I mean you're you won it's over
But just for the hell of it. We'll do this last category
40 best Tom Cruise movies ranked by fans out of 44
Where does this one come in?
Oh, this is the one okay
This comes in add
36 36
To you Weston out of 44
Let's go
Shit 40 40 it is 37 Brandon you got that last one congratulations and you're very close with it
So I believe it was a five to three, but I would probably give you two points for that get it nail in the head. So
Wow sick so good game. I hope it was fun
Maybe maybe we'll make it make another appearance later
I'm trying to work on game crafting and it's it's been I love it fun
The subject and I think let's get Weston here's
Yeah, movie nerd like us. So it makes it makes it nice when you're so knowledgeable wasn't even a wonderful guy
We appreciate it so much when we can get another opinion here and this movie if anything fostered a
An interesting discussion and one that was that was worthwhile and yeah, I can't wait to have you back man
Is there anything else that you that you feel like you didn't get a chance to say?
Just really grateful that you guys had me on it was a lot of fun. I love your guys's banter
I'm a fan of your pod now listen a couple episodes of the show
Thanks, man. Appreciate that. That's great, man. Thanks for having me out and I'd love to be back on
Absolutely sure who you guys take turns like every week
You guys hand off the the picks like who chose this one was it Brandon? It's pretty organic. This one we were trying to think of
A movie for you and it was this one or what was the other one which is actually the same one that we had
A movie for you and it was this one or what was the other one which is actually this will be a nice time for the reveal for next week because we had another one
What was it? It was um
Doors did you say the doors? That's right. It was the doors or this and you're very knowledgeable of music as well
So we thought that might be interesting but one would have been easier for me. I feel like for this I
It was hard for me to just add to and actually have something to say about this film but
Not at all. I had a lot of fun though so
That's all that matters and yeah it's weird not I don't know I'm a dummy and what I what I say doesn't mean anything like this is just
An excuse to hang out and shoot the shit with about movies and really your presence was a welcome addition and
Any other different type of movie that you would want to watch in the future we can we can definitely do the doors for you next and then me and Brandon can
Work on deciding a different movie for next week that we can reveal at a different time. Yeah, Brandon or do we have one that we want to do?
We do the doors. Yeah, we can do the doors. I was just wondering if we should save it for Weston but we can we just do the doors
We can do the doors. We can find another good one for Weston. We're doing the doors next week folks
Can you believe that you're right in the process you're you're over stone man. Yeah
You guys are you guys JFT fans?
Born on the 4th of July was brought up earlier. I actually haven't seen JFT okay I need to see it. Oh man do yourselves a favor. Is that a big one?
Yeah. That was one movie that I just what why the hell would I ever want to watch that. That's a huge discovery for me of like I think last year
Took me by complete surprise super engrossing film really good great editing. Yeah, it's it's really really well okay
That was that's one that's been a myra. I think that might that might actually fall under your guys's criteria of being a polarizing film.
Maybe you guys can do that on for the doors it's a 56% critics is 79% audience by the way let's take a look at JFK here. That is overall positive and 84% critics and an 88% audience seems like people like it
but for a three hour nine minute historical drama Oliver Stone. It's yeah that's that's one that's been on my list and I and I definitely got to check it out. Maybe I can fit that in as well leading up to the doors and I have actually never seen the doors either so this will be interesting.
That's another one that I don't know how I've never never seen it but fan of the doors and fan of the all camera and fan of Oliver Stone so let's see a Kyle McLaughlin fan. Absolutely. Oh is he in this movie. All right, get ready.
He's in this movie. Hell yeah. Yeah, he plays he plays Raymond Zarek. Oh my God. Cool. Okay. Wow. Kevin Dylan, Meg Ryan, Frank Whaley, Michael Madsen.
What a what a time. What a place.
Chris McGlover plays Andy Warhol. Billy Idol is in it. We will be here discussing it next time we hope you guys join us for that. You can join us live on twitch.tv slash polarized pod.
You can send us a line at gmail.com slash polarized the pod rate review subscribe on definitely do that Apple podcast pretty please.
We appreciate the love we and we love you all back Brandon is there anything else. No love everybody out there. Love you guys. That was great.
Hell yeah. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
Hi y'all.
And please make sure you listen to no where land Weston and Corey's amazing band. Check them out on Spotify and we love you all and we'll see you next time.
We got a show in San Diego. If you're around at the Ken Club March 14 next Thursday it's five bucks.
Anyone wants to come by it's going to be rad. Great job. So here's over it.
Please do check them out. They are a fucking amazing live act and they continue to get better and better and Western on the drums is something to see.
He is a master. I will see you guys next time. Bye.
Bye.