Welcome everybody to the Polarize podcast.
This is that podcast about polarizing movies.
I am your host, Brandon Stables.
This podcast is about polarizing movies in the sense of rotten tomato scores.
Today, we're talking about infinity pool.
This is a movie that has a certified fresh critic score of 87% and an audience score
of a Poopy Doopie Snoopy 52%.
Again, podcast about polarizing movies.
Sometimes critics love it.
This is hated.
That's the case for this.
But we also do vice versa.
That's the premise here.
Before I get into it, I would like to introduce my co-host, also referred to as the forever
guest, Mr. James Lindsay.
How's it going?
Yes.
Hello.
I'm back.
I'm infinitely the infinite guest, if you will.
Let's add that to the repertoire.
Infinity guest.
The infinity guest.
Yes.
I love that.
Always here, ever, ever present.
You know, and it might not be this, and it might not be the same original true form of
the James as I sometimes refer to myself.
He does.
Yeah.
Might be a copy.
It might be a James, perhaps not the James, but it might be a James.
Yeah.
I mean, you're just speaking of copies.
I am a James.
There's also a James in this movie.
Yeah.
There is.
Yeah, you're just really flying in the face of the recommendation from Justin Timberlake
in the social network.
Instead of dropping the.
Oh, no.
Keeping it.
Add it.
You know what?
Fuck, JT.
Add the.
Yeah.
The budget.
You know what's cool?
Ava.
That's what's cool.
A billion does.
Oh, my God.
That you're so right.
It's like the more does you have the more profitable your company will be.
Yeah, that's my company is called one billion.
Those.
Cool.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm still figuring out what we're going to do, but that's what we're calling it.
You know what?
And the name represents that too.
I mean, yeah, I don't know what that company does.
You not knowing what it does makes sense.
So you know what?
That works out.
It's a fitting name.
Yes.
And you are the you are the Brandon, the the polarized, the polarized, polarized, polarized
kingdom, king, king of polarized kingdom.
Also known as the great brandini brandonius brandonius maximus.
Yep.
That bar down.
What else?
There's another one.
Be stable.
Landon Jables.
Landon Jables, of course, saved the best for last.
Before we get into this movie, let's do I just want to check in before we talk about
this movie that we've watched.
I want to know what other movies you're watching.
What are we watching over here?
What are you watching over there?
You what are you watching?
Can I watch it too?
That's what I say to people on the street.
Come on in.
Hey, you, what are you watching?
Can I watch it too?
Oh, and then I figure out if my streaming service has whatever that they they mentioned
or they just run away in fright because a man is approaching them asking for streaming
suggestions.
Excuse me, miss.
Can you give me a suggestion?
A suggestion?
What are you watching?
It's a survey.
I'm taking a survey.
I finally finished Hunter Hunter.
I finally did it.
It's like 150 episodes or so anime that I sat sat in and it's it was there's plenty
of times it was like background stuff.
Portions where I was a little like, should I continue on with this or should I, you know,
and then they would finish really strong certain portions of it.
And I felt like it had a very strong ending and it was very epic leading up to that point
as well.
But I'm surprised I did it.
And now I'm trying to catch up on some other anime that's been done by the wayside because
I never finished.
We got never I know I never caught up with the demon slayer.
And now that I'm going to once I finish that I'm going to do jujitsu guys in all all good
stuff.
But yeah, and then we've talked about the Finch Finch man and been watching his stuff
like a gone girl, which even watching that in close proximity to this movie was something
that I even found occasional similarities, you know, at least.
Yeah.
Oh, interesting.
And just the rich father that and he's trying to be a writer and all that stuff like that
was something.
You're right.
Interesting and him being like all spiteful towards her about the money and all this stuff.
Yeah, it's that was that was the main similar beyond that not much.
But yeah, that's an interesting comparison because like relationship dynamic a little
bit.
You know, a big part of both of those movies is.
Obsensively white privilege and how really kind of shitty people navigate that and take
advantage of it.
And I wouldn't have made that connection until you brought that up.
But yeah, I could definitely see see the similarities in both of those.
I love gone girl.
I think it is really almost a perfect movie, especially because it is so that and zodiac
or so and also girl with the dragon tattoo.
I just I love a thriller.
I you know, and I can also really get down on true crime and both of those are all three
of those operate in that true, crimey space that is really quite enjoyable to watch people
walk you through, you know, how things happen and how people are trying to solve a problem.
And it's just, yeah, we've talked about movies.
Just chug along at such a nice, nice pace and being sick recently and having that to
kind of watch that was that was really nice.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
And I did Kong skull Island recently too, because I'm a recently watching God's of the
King of monsters.
I was like, I'll do another one of these monster movies.
I know that show is coming out soon.
I might I might check it out.
But yeah, Kong skull Island.
Very, very fun movie.
It's my favorite of the bunch for sure.
I think by like far and away because I can't remember what score we gave King of monsters.
I know we were pretty middling on it.
70s or something.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because I mean, it wasn't a terrible movie.
But yeah, I just remember being like, you know, some parts I liked there was fair amount
of boring stuff, maybe I want to say.
But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, there's just it's the Vera Farmiga twist that was
that after watching the second time, it's really going to stick with me now.
I'm like, oh, that was really not handled the best.
It was pretty hokey.
But you know, you expect some hokey stuff and that it's just it's uneven in some of
the other ones in Kong skull Island.
It's all like, I don't know, they've they handle the camp well, because it's incredibly
well silly and fun.
And they don't they don't take themselves too seriously, but they're also playing it
very straight, which is nice.
All the characters playing it very straight, including like Samuel Jackson is kind of like
a villain in a way.
And they're all yeah, and it's a period piece.
I love that part of it.
And the humor from John C. Riley, I think is handled well as well.
And I think the humor is very difficult to to do in movies like that, too.
But I remember Godzilla vs. Kong being pretty fun for like the battles.
But I don't know, Kong skull Island feels so far removed as well.
It's like the prequel.
And so it's, I don't know, it's maybe setting up a little bit, but it's also kind of a closed
loop.
Like with all those characters and like one sort of way where they could just close the
loop and in a way where they can introduce and take characters away very like no one's
safe.
I love that.
No one's safe.
There is a lot of people that just get taken out in that in Kong skull Island.
And that makes it the threat more real and interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, I totally agree with you in its strengths that you mentioned, especially in comparison
to the other Godzilla, King Kong movies is the stuff on the ground in the one that we
watched and the other ones is really gets so bogged down and like this like corporation
being in the background and controlling that ends up being really uninteresting or just
overall not handled very well because it just is one of those, you know, shadow organizations
that's always been around that now is just such a consistent trope in these big budget
movies because it's typically used as the connective tissue to create a universe which
so many movies feel compelled to do because of Marvel, the Marvel effect of things.
And that is just I could not be more over that.
That's right.
By and large.
And so yeah, all of that stuff doesn't really work for me.
But no, I agree with you that the humor, the John C. Reilly stuff is fantastic.
Yeah.
And also Tom Hiddleston.
What is it?
Brie Larson.
Great.
Great action stars.
I think I could be wrong, but I think what's happening in the new show is that it takes
place at there's different time periods at points and I could be wrong.
But I think the young Russell boy is playing like an earlier version of Kurt Russell and
Kurt Russell is playing like modern day Kurt Russell, but it sounds like playing him as
a young man.
Sure.
That's a that's a cool move.
I like that.
And there's going to be they'd be like no de-aging and stuff.
Get Dennis that Dennis Quaid and Jack Quaid doing some stuff together.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
I mean, that is cool.
But my understanding, too, of the show is that it's all the stuff that you're just
saying.
Yeah, it's exactly all honing in on on that bullshit.
But just love seeing Kurt Russell.
He's he's he's a man.
He's the fucking shit.
And it sounds a great actor, too.
Wyatt, right?
Is his name?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah, I like him in stuff, too.
What else are you watching, Brandon?
What am I watching?
So there's a couple of things that I've seen recently that I would love to just briefly
talk about.
One of them is the creator.
It is a movie sci-fi movie that is made by the guy who did Rogue One, which you have
just recently mentioned.
It stars another son of a famous actor again.
Wow.
Really hitting all of the same spots.
But yeah, the creator watched that and it's mid.
It's mid.
But there is enough there that is enjoyable for me to recommend it.
I would put it like if we were to have done this and maybe we will.
I can't remember.
I feel like it's probably might be polarizing because it's got a lot of like.
How do I describe this?
It's got a lot of like race and class stuff in it that I think keyboard warriors would
just go after it for all the wrong reason.
No, it's not polarizing.
Oh, and audiences like it by and large.
Oh, that's interesting.
But yeah, it has a lot of similarities in a lot of different ways to Elysium.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's.
If you like Elysium, you'll definitely like the creator.
And yeah, like if I would recommend it, it's one thing I just want to talk about briefly
with you about this movie is going into it.
There was so much.
Written in the trades about this movie in regards to its.
The cost of the movie and what it is.
This is a medium budget.
40 million or what it's not 40 million.
It's like a medium budget movie.
I'll pull it up while I'm talking about it, but a epic sci-fi epic that is.
That doesn't cost.
I don't know.
200 million dollars to make, which is nice because that flies in the face of all of the
major epics and CGI heavy, if you will, like sci-fi movies that do get put out, which end
up being by and large Marvel movies or Star Wars movies.
And all of those movies are like insanely expensive.
So it kind of, you know.
This movie proves the point that you the movie doesn't need to cost necessarily a Disney
level budget in order to visually be a have spaceships, have lasers, have, you know,
all of that stuff.
And then also a lot of robots and shit like that.
And that creates a lot of world building.
I mean, it really does create a lot of new IP, if you will, that is exciting.
And so so much of this movie was taught, you know, it was like, Oh, it's so great that
Garth Edwards was able to create a brand new IP sci-fi at this budget.
And there is something wonderful to be 80 million dollars so much.
Which I've talked about, and I'm sure you would agree is we would as movie fans, by
and large, if you really love movies, you want to see more movies get made and it not
just be like our income inequality situation in the world where there's only, you know,
200 million dollar movies that are at the level of sci-fi spaceships, or else you have
to be like really relatively small.
And it's like almost an indie movie that would just focus on like, you know, the relationship
of like be very small and at scale, right?
Because the scale of the creator is quite large.
There's, you know, a lot of going to a lot of different places, a lot of like cities
that are just look cool, a lot of spaceships, a lot of different types of like robots and
clothing and weapons and all of that stuff.
And yeah, so.
It also reminds me of, yeah, I mentioned it maybe last week or week before this show
on Apple TV called Silo that, you know, is maybe kind of claustrophobic in the way because
you are in the Silo for the entire run of the season.
But it's a sci-fi concept and it's like this world that you don't understand and the characters
in it are trying to figure out what's going on as well, like at the very root of what's
up with, really like what's up with this Silo?
What's going on here?
Sure.
Yeah.
And, but the ideas that are being presented are interesting and the characterization between
everybody is strong enough that it builds out those ideas and in the world that makes
you curious as well.
And sometimes it doesn't work completely, but like we watch no one will save you that
one and sometimes it doesn't work completely for everybody.
And that's why we're here doing this podcast, but having that ability to try and fail is
also kind of nice too because no one will save you.
You took some big swings with how they wanted to do that movie.
And I, you know, and we gave that, you know, props for attempting to do some of that stuff,
but overall it didn't completely work on us, but rather have that rather than, you know,
going through the same well over and over again and even something like Zach Snyder's
new like trilogy Star Wars like, sci-fi, you know, space opera trilogy that he's doing.
Not sure how that's going to work and I'm not fully sure what budget that is, but you
know, I'll check it out and see what's up.
I mean, that's, that's a name that doesn't really fit, you know, like I, like I can do
whatever he wants, it seems like with whatever kind of budget and people keep letting them,
letting them do it.
And he's doing it for Netflix at this point.
But another, another example, I mean, is the movie that we're about to talk about today
is just there's a lot of big fucking original ideas that are presented in this movie that
are not done with CG.
I'm like a lot of money, it seems like it's done really well and the sets themselves,
I'm sure don't cost nothing and I'm sure take a lot of time to set up and come such conceptualize
and all that good stuff and great performers and everything, but that I it's all rooted
in these fantastic original ideas that are worth seeing it play out in a way in a story.
And that's why sci-fi is, you know, one of my favorite genres for sure.
This one fits in multiple genres arguably, but the creator seems like it's a straight
sci-fi thing and that's definitely what I'm going to, I've been meaning to check out and
I just like to keep up with whatever, yeah, big, you know, fun sci-fi space adventure
sort of movies.
I'm down to give it a shot.
So yeah, I'll take a look at it.
Yeah, please do.
Because again, I would recommend it, especially the case you just made for being a big sci-fi
fan because yeah, I don't know to be it doesn't gross you in a world that it has made up and
gives you a lot of information about that world that you can sink your teeth into and
get excited about like all the possibilities that that world has to offer.
Yeah, just the problem with it is the core story of it is just a little thin and lacking,
but not to say that the performances are necessarily bad.
So hopefully check it out.
Elysium or whatever.
That's kind of how I felt about that one.
But I mean, yeah, it was worth checking out.
And you know, that was when Blomkamp was still hot shit.
I'm not sure what he's doing now, but Gareth Edwards, I like the look of Rogue One a lot
and as a director, he seems like he's got a good eye.
And I agree.
Check it out.
Yeah.
I mean, he has so much potential and I'm excited about the things that Gareth Edwards
does, maybe just not be so involved in the screenplay is would be my suggestion.
Maybe find, you know, a screenwriter or find a screenplay that is a sci-fi ask or whatever.
Because yeah, I mean, he has the potential to be a beloved sci-fi director, like a villain
who if he just continues to, you know, be able to make projects like this, hopefully
because of its lackluster box office success, he doesn't get to like to in jail and as a
given another opportunity.
Because yeah, I mean, visually, it's quite a stunning movie.
So yeah, everybody should go check out the creator.
But yeah, speaking of sci-fi, God, this movie checks off a lot of of my like you just said,
a lot of my favorite genres.
We got sci-fi, we got thriller and now horrors.
I'm becoming such a horror dude.
Yeah, which one going into it?
Like before before you go on to it, what did you think it was going to be an after?
What did you think it mostly was?
So going into it, I thought it was going to be a horror movie and then coming out of it,
it was more of a thriller.
Yeah.
I'm like surreal.
Yeah.
Thriller, I have thriller drama.
The sci-fi element obviously is like, and before we really get into it, I want to do
my due diligence of explaining what the synopsis is, a quick synopsis for anybody who hasn't
seen it.
But yeah, I would say horror going into it and then.
Yeah, definitely like going into it with knowing the least about it, I'd say possible.
Yeah.
I mean, it's almost like we should put a spoiler warning.
You're listening to the episode, I would assume that, you know, by this point that we're going
to talk about the movie.
But if you haven't seen it, yeah, already going to say, yeah, just go check it out.
It's, uh, yeah, don't want to spoil completely our feelings about it, but I'd say it's best
to go unblind.
So I put it, I completely agree because I had, I knew nothing about this movie and I loved
how the trailer was pretty good about it by and large.
Pretty good about it.
Yeah.
And I remember seeing that trailer, but also kind of a lot of that stuff in the latter half
of the trailer went over my head.
It still does the trailer thing where it, it does let you in on a little bit of what's
happening, but there's so much going on and being thrown at you in the trailer that you're
like, oh, whatever.
And then all I remember is that they just get in a car accident on a vacation.
Is all that from the trailer and then it just, wow, that's only the beginning, only the
beginning, only the beginning.
Okay.
So the plot of this movie, this nonsense is while staying at an isolated island resort,
James played by Alexander Skarsgard and M played by Cleopatra.
The infinite guest are enjoying a perfect vacation of pristine beaches, exceptional staff and
soaking up the sun, but guided by the seductive and mysterious Gabby played by Mia goth.
They venture outside the resort grounds and find themselves in a culture filled with violence,
hedonism and untold horror.
A tragic accident leaves them facing a zero tolerance policy for crime.
Either you'll be executed or if you're rich enough to afford it, you can watch yourself
die instead.
Infinity.
Yeah, even that is just like, it doesn't, doesn't give you the whole story there either,
but it does, does hint at it and I love how it, the flower unfurls of this movie's plot.
I already saying just right now, like the, and I'm not sure if I could compare like if
the first half is better than the second half or anything because it just escalates continuously
throughout in such a way that I find a natural form of like writing a screenplay as having
it escalate and have these characters, you know, get into issues and then, but then also
have this, our main character and some of my favorite movies, I don't know why, but
is just fucking people just falling apart.
Uh huh, sure.
And unraveling or just some of my favorite movies to watch sometimes like in Leonardo
DiCaprio does it, you know, some of the, some of the best movies he's done.
Yeah, like, and yeah, like Wolf of Wall Street or Revenant or there's just, there's so many.
I mean, catch me if you can.
There's in some sense, you know, there's a whole list, I'm sure.
And I'd love to make a list of my favorites of his, but just watching someone go down
this path or like Nightcrawler or something.
Wow, yeah, yeah.
Some Jillian Hall, but Cheddar Island is a great pick.
And this movie, him peering into this deep dark side and gradually giving in and being
tantalized, but then, and then by the time he wants to get out, it being too late is,
is horrific in its own way, but the way the movie plods along, I think is more apt to
call it a thriller.
Yeah.
More so than anything.
Yeah, I would say so too.
There's a lot of these surreal elements that I love though too.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
But no, I totally agree with that.
There is always this, you know, kind of lingering uncertainty about the information you're given,
where the main character is like sitting kind of psychologically, like where they're at.
And there's just so much like breaking that person transformation.
And then all of it is being orchestrated by like bad actors, essentially, and people that
have their own agenda, which just is such a thriller, you know, vibe to me where, you
know, when I think of thrillers, I think of oftentimes like somebody who is like this,
like almost beat by beat is like a normal person thrust into a crazy situation where
they have to figure out how to get themselves out of, you know, that being, yeah, the basis,
my definition of a thriller and then is this movie, but it is so much more stylized.
And one thing that I love about this movie is that it, it hints at things in a really
great way where you can think that you can think other stuff might be happening or exist
in the world.
But the movie doesn't care about that because it's so focused on just this story.
So it will like things will exist or people will say stuff or things will happen.
And for a second, you'll be like, Oh, I wonder what that means.
But then the movie is so steadfast and getting through its plot.
It just sucks you back in.
Like, don't think too much about this.
Get back on track here.
And the movie is such a great taskmaster because it just is pumping along.
Yeah.
I mean, one of my bad shit ideas that they're able to just move through and and naturally
take one thing up a notch each time with with their ideas and also just the natural progression
of the characters and to have it be him such a singular, like first person narrative almost
of his journey through through through all of this is a tough thing to push along because
you are relying a lot on the performance of the actor who doesn't say a lot with words,
but through his body language and looks on his faces and it is a good symphony of all
those things working really well together.
Absolutely.
It's so interesting to that great description you've given and how similar or how that could
be applied to other Cronenberg movies, even though this is his son and just a big crony
crony.
Okay.
Can we just say how like bold and interesting it is?
Your dad is a incredibly famous director who just came out with a great idea.
Not with an amazing movie recently.
Like I mean, many, many great movies.
And sure, like the pop, like the general movie going population might not know David Cronenberg
by name, but anybody who has a monocle of interest in film knows exactly who that guy
is and what his movies are like and how unique those movies are.
All these moments within them because for me, it was always just like, oh yeah, that
part in scanners where the dudes had exploded.
You just know that moment from just talking about it on the playground or whatever.
Oh, and like, wow.
James, when did you see scanners as a kid or something?
Yeah, just like, you know, like, oh man, I didn't see it or something.
But like, oh, like, oh, my older brother saw this movie as dudes like had explodes called
scanners or mass craze.
Like those kind of like movies are like you.
There's one kid that did see the R rated movie and then they just go through and explain
the whole plot to you.
So you're like, well, that's crazy.
I remember getting the full plot of like deep blue sea and Lake Placid like back to back
because this one kid had seen both of them.
They came out like around the same time.
I was at the big shark.
Oh, no, it's a big.
It's a big alligator crocodile.
Oh, no, it's a cow.
It's a cow.
I'm just imagining you like, oh, sorry.
Let me take a smoke and cigarettes and drink.
No, man.
I was Pacific cooler.
Take another sip of my Pacific cooler.
I missed it.
Mr. Strat.
Shit.
I mean, shoot.
I said, shoot.
God, what's your favorite Capri sun Pacific cooler?
Oh, Pacific cooler.
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.
So Cronenberg and OK, so back to the asker point that I was making is this like, I find
it really interesting and so bold that you are the son of a very, very well known director
and you go become a director yourself and you make movies very similar to your dad.
Like you lean into it.
I mean, most most people would be like at a bare minimum, I need to differentiate myself.
You think you're maybe a little bit of a rebel and become a pastor or something.
Right.
Or like, I don't know.
You know, he's the creative director of Bluey or like some kids show.
I don't know.
He's like really gone through a lot of like therapy and all this stuff because all the
weird shit that he had to go through having such a way.
He's like, no, he just sucked it all in and now he's producing amazing singular content
as well.
God, I wish I was not like it's not a cheap rip off and it does.
But it also is very much inspired visually and like the ideas are so fresh still and
to have those fresh and the ability to like take chances on things and not in clearly
not playing it safe.
When you have everything to fall back on as, you know, an arguable NEPO baby or some shit.
Oh, for sure.
NEPO baby.
Yeah, 100%.
But you have every safety net to fall back on if you fuck up and he just pushes it and
makes it even more interesting and different and weird and is able to work with, you know,
Alexander Skarsgard is he's still got that Northman body.
I mean, come on.
I mean, I'm not sure if it's in the top game.
I know.
And me and goth is I don't know.
I don't understand how she hasn't been.
She wasn't nominated for fucking Pearl because that performance and in X as well.
But her performance in Pearl and there's a few moments in that movie if you've been
always seen that there.
But I've seen it.
Yeah, there's there's a couple moments in that where I'm just like she she is in a war
or something for this.
And this one and this movie on, you know, now that we're talking about her and maybe
we can touch on her performances, which I really love.
There was a moment.
Oh, my God.
There was a moment.
I was questioning her accent a bit.
And I think that it because in a way that was that was critical of like is, you know,
I don't know about this British accent.
What's what's going on or whatever.
And then it came together so well at the end because I think it completely it was completely
gone at the airport at the very end.
And I think she had like a normal acts like not a.
Yeah, you Brits are weird.
No, Jesus.
Or like, you know, get a normal accent.
From the states, you know, you know, us just talking like so Calc down.
Dude, that's what we say.
Yeah, it's all about the.
This is what normal sounds like.
Weird.
Yeah, you are.
Oh, man, you're so right.
In my mind and maybe I'm just reading too much into it was that the accent was part of
everything that she was putting on that whole, you know, she's just a great actress.
So she was creating the story that she was from a different place because at the end,
it seemed like her accent had dropped.
At least the British one in it.
And you know, got that dude, old classic California accent.
But maybe I'm reading too much into it either way, her performance and everything that went
along with it was amazing and it doesn't really matter because it was just so.
I don't I don't necessarily think you're reading too much into it because I think there is
plenty of examples throughout the entire movie where she puts on a facade and then there
is a change in her body language or the way that she talks.
Maybe not the accent I picked up on as much, but like the way that she talked to James
or Alexander Skarsgaard changes as the movie goes on.
And yeah, it's a testament to her being such a good actor where she is giving so much into
this performance at all of these different levels in order to effectively convey that
this person uses this time at this resort to do all of these hedonistic things.
It's like.
Right, like all of them as extensively have been except for James Alexander Skarsgaard.
I'm going to just say Alexander Skarsgaard James.
Hey, James.
All the other people have been there multiple times, right?
So this is now kind of their like.
Yeah, they seem to be essentially in like a cult.
Sure.
At this point is what it's growing into.
It started out as like fun and games and orgies and shit.
And then it just got.
More and more crazy each year that they came back.
Sort of kind of because I mean the title of this movie, Infinity Pool is also used in
the explanation to how Mia Gothner husband first got introduced to the idea and the conceit
of the movie that if you commit a murder or heinous crime in this country, then you either
you're going to get executed, but you can pay to watch.
He also literally designs them and installs them.
And then it what happened?
It was he he designed an Infinity Pool that had like you could go underneath it and she
explains it and like broke or like fucked up and killed like one of the workers.
Yeah.
And so the first.
And that was the first so he had to go through this process and then they got it right.
Just like everybody seemingly who has the money to do so gets addicted to the power
that you have that you can do.
Get away with anything and just throw money.
Yeah, you can get away with anything and just throw money at the problem.
And God, that can see to the movie, man.
Like I know we're kind of getting a little ahead.
I like how we're getting into it.
I don't know because it's hard to it's hard to talk about this without getting into, you
know, the overall big, big idea of it.
You know, we can go through a little bit more of like the beginning has some really fucking
cool do a bear do it.
Fox do a barrel roll do a barrel roll and does some barrel rolls.
And it is like a shine like the shining level sort of opening because it's already like
telling you like, yeah, menace and tops, you're not sure what's going on.
It is not like a fun vacation.
I think things are things are already off.
The tension between them.
Yeah.
I audibly was when that twisting happened.
I was like, whoa.
Because it's because there and there are a plethora of visuals in this movie that it
really excited me.
Oh, yeah.
Like I was I was thinking about just when it comes to the if I were to boil down the
very, very core tenants of a movie that I am considering by and large had how well the
movie succeeds at like at these things at these characteristics and that being why I like
it, you know, like if this if it does this well, then check and if it does this well,
check and if it does all of these things really well, then I really love this movie.
And those three things to me was visually what the camera is doing, what the plot and
dialogue of the movie is and then what is the like theme and conceit of the movie.
And so if those three things are like, you know, doing well, then that is to me like
almost like a rubric like this.
I really enjoyed this movie.
And so the visuals of this movie.
Dazzle the shit out of me, man.
There was so much in this movie that I have not really seen done almost at all where I
can go through a list, but before I do, I kind of aside from the twisting and turning, is
there like a visual like a direction in the movie that stands out to you?
Overall, the I don't know if you'd call it the color correction or the saturation and
the contrast of all the colors was like muted in a way that was just different and really
interesting and almost kind of washed out at times.
That was just different than a lot of ways of shooting that I've seen before that made
it overall enticing to look at because it was still telling me something visually constantly,
even in the overall like color.
Like it didn't feel like a happy, fun vacation.
It felt like the muted like color had kind of been sucked out of this guy's life and
in this weird, yeah, depressive, yeah, writer's block sort of state.
And that was something that I was sinking into.
And then as the movie went on, there was just a lot of surprising, fun ways to tell the
audience something without telling them and showing them.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I know what you mean by the washed out stuff, especially in the very beginning of
the movie is what comes to mind is when all positive things.
But yeah.
Yes.
I get that you don't mean that it's washed out or colorless in a negative way because
no, it adds to the movie where I in my mind like images of me because I've gone to places
like this and it just was so.
It was just such an immediate connection where you are outside and there's a lot of like
concrete and stone and the sun is up very high and everything is very washed out and
very like, yeah, just lit and, you know, a lot.
But yeah, it just it adds to that almost like a malaise that you can have in such a beautiful
place, which is really, really, really fascinating.
And this movie is just filled to the brim with so much of that kind of visual language
communicating how the characters are feeling and what that location kind of represents
or, you know, just overall like where the movie is telling you through its images, like
how to feel.
And it's.
I thought of the other shot that I really liked was when he first meets the crew.
And the shot is in the other room, looking over someone's back to him.
But it just is the slowest zoom into him.
I'm like almost almost a mid shot.
But in the it's really far away in a different room.
Super voyeuristic, which is something that the way they place the camera, these Cronenberg
ease, they like make you feel like a voyeur in like in the midst of everything.
Yeah.
And in the characters themselves to the sexual nature that is implicit in in kind of the
dealings of that slowly kind of unfurls and comes out as well as they show their true
colors and what they're really trying to get out of everything is something that.
Yeah, I don't know.
I like the weird sexual side of some of these some of their movies like that is comes into
play that I feel feel like is kind of missing in movies that are a little more censored
in different ways.
I don't want to say such a blanket term because there's movies out there and Mia goth is in
X and Pearl, which I think they do a great job of that as well as like sexual horror.
But the way that it's done in in the body, horror and everything that's kind of transmitted
through their their movies, I think is something that is just a part of it.
It's not the only part, but it's just another part of the of his color palette that he just
adds to this this piece of art that he's he's making.
And it takes a performer like Mia goth to get that across as well.
Because she's like the driving force behind that part of it.
I think in all the weird little crew members and all that stuff and, you know, all that
stuff of me, goth is definitely driving it.
And her husband's actor's name or the character's name, but he's pretty good too.
But she's just yeah.
Yeah.
Um, the two main leads fucking kill it.
And such an interesting detective guy.
He's awesome too.
Yes.
And such an interesting point that you just made because it I totally get what you mean
by the lack of sexuality in where you would like to see it in other movies and also Kronenberg
being so good at like the body is this organ sack.
And it's also a sexual organ at the same time.
And it's like it almost makes me think of their hope in and his like philosophy on movies
and sexuality and whatnot is like his movies are hyperviolent and hypersexual.
And he's like in his mind, I feel like I've heard in interviews is like.
They you know, he likes putting them next to each other because it's how did he describe
it, it's like it's so visceral.
Like all of us think about sex often and all of us think about, you know, more or less
our own deaths.
Like I don't think a lot of people think about killing other people, but like death and violence
is there as well.
And it kind of just really puts on display.
Like we do have this hedonistic and this.
I don't necessarily want to say dark, but for lack of a better term, like a dark side
to all of us that is there that are, you know, are.
Not our ego, but our subconscious, you know, it exists in there, but our conscious, you
know, make sure that that stays in check.
And there's also recognition, I'm sure that we all go through where it's like, even if
I want to say fuck everything, I know that I shouldn't.
And I know that I, and it's not good for me and all of that stuff, but it's, you know,
you can make these connections with the mood, with these movies like Kronenberg or Verhoeven,
where you're like, I am a sexual person and there is a part of me that in another world
or, you know, kind of displayed in this movie and what the main character goes through is
like.
Like entertaining that idea that how close am I to being this like sexual deviant or
being this person who is just like really into watching myself get murdered, you know,
that kind of stuff.
Yeah, you just the capabilities that you have with the amount of money that you, you have,
you've pushed it so far that yeah, everything you're making that you're bringing up does
make me think of like Q break and like Eyes Wide Shut or Clockwork Horns and exploring
ideas like that and characters like that or even his father in a movie that we discussed
very like earlier on in this podcast has been, we've been going long enough, I'll say earlier
on we did Cosmopolis, which was yeah, very much about classism and everything that goes
goes along with that and what that can get you in a future sci-fi kind of world and in
your body and now crimes of the future more, more recently.
But the that side, I agree, yeah, is present in all of us.
It's interesting how he portrays some of these people with a lot of wealth that are looking
to get either their kicks or they're trying to prolong life in a lot of ways or it's exhibitionism.
A lot of these characters in his movies as well and they're in these carnal desires that
they don't even understand about themselves either.
But having these characters be present, these, these wealthy people that seem to not maybe
not given to those sides except maybe on these trips and everything and then they just let
it all out.
But yeah, it almost reminds me like the rich people that, you know, just drop a bunch and
you know, go to Burning Man or whatever and take it over with.
100% such a good analogy.
But then it just kind of changes the nature of the place itself too.
And I, yeah, and speaking of that too, how I'm kind of rambling, I guess, but how the
culture and this this is this made up place that they that he introduces in this movie
I thought was well done to just like the little snippets of it really puts you in the place
of these characters because you don't feel like enough due time is given to the place
and all the shit that they're doing to it and taking from it.
And it's never really explained all all of their customs and everything.
They're just kind of like, yeah, you know, me and goth seems to know enough because they've
been coming back here, however often or whatever, but how they use the drug that all that when
they start bringing introducing that drug.
Oh my God.
But and and just all of all of the customs that they they take advantage of, you know,
it's it's kind of it's in your face very much like what the movies trying trying to say,
but the methods and ideas and strange sci-fi elements just push it to a side that make
it just yeah, thrilling to watch for it being a thriller.
I agree. Yeah, I love.
I love.
No, it's okay.
I love that it was a like made up or nondescript place because having talked to people in certain
classes that have done travels and, you know, imbibed in cultures and whatnot is this there
is unfortunately a gist you can get out of certain, you know, people who have done these
things, not this stuff in particular, but who have gone to, you know, ostensibly third
world countries to go vacation.
The attitude has a lot of similarities where everybody just casually talks about, well,
the people that live there are really impoverished.
It is a dangerous place for people with money and white people to go outside of.
And it just that's kind of a consistent description for a lot of people who have gone to South
America, maybe gone to what it is in like Southeast Asia.
It's closest to like a yeah, maybe a South American kind of.
But then there's like a.
But then and then that then there's a lot of like a communist Russia stuff.
But the thing was like it was whatever with the actual country that it was in the surrounding
area, whatever that pocket that they were in was like eco tourist like, you know, place
where they just have a little bit of everything for everybody because a lot of people come
from all over the world.
So they have the Chinese food restaurant that they go to and then they do the hard jump
cut to the Bollywood dancers in the Indian dancers because it just seems to be it's
like this place where a lot of tourists come from all over and they're just trying to please
everybody.
So in that pocket, it just it's almost makes it difficult purposely.
So from the movie's perspective, to make it difficult to discern exactly where it is because
it's trying to cater to the world at large and in a way, you know, and then reminds me
of like more.
Yeah, there we just went on a vacation.
A little sad and like the beach even was no old I don't know why I said the beach.
Well, actually, the beat I mean, I've been reading that book recently and there's definitely
no there's definitely an element of that too.
It's yeah, Alex.
It's been a good book.
But yeah, we went to Cancun recently.
I don't know.
Cancun is has elements of that too where it's doesn't necessarily represent, you know,
the country, the country at large, but it's it's represents the the touristy side of it.
And a lot of people from around the world go there to.
Oh, we got Blarge in the chat.
Let's see what he has to say.
Large pass guest.
Cancun is lit AF.
Oh, all right.
Well, I mean, it was but you know, the point we're making with Cancun is like we get off
their plane and then immediately it is people trying to sell you shit like aggressively
sell you shit, then you get on get into a car and then you drive and then on the same
freeway there are people with mounted machine guns on trucks, people with machine guns standing
in the middle of the road.
And then you're driving past these resorts that have these enormous stone walls with
gates on them and people just getting funneled into their private little resorts and with
the main road, there's just yeah, like the walls, like I know there's a chain link and
everything like in this movie, but it's not too far off where you just see like a fortress
and like some have like I saw a water feature look like a moat, you know, and then just
guards outside each each gate and wall and everything.
Absolutely.
And then and also to in our resort, there was a.
There was a Chinese restaurant and it was called Aegean or yeah, Oriental Asian taste.
Yeah, something like that, which you know, it's all a pan Asian.
It was a pan Asian restaurant, I believe.
All that to be said is like this is the perfect setting for you to hone in on the concept that
people with wealth are easily well.
How do I describe this is like.
They can't do this in their own lives, but will pay lots of money to be the burning man
version or the hedonistic version of themselves in these countries and just take advantage
of, you know, again, these resorts and how they're set up and just that whole vibe that
you operate in when you go to a third world country, go stay at a resort.
It just it puts you in a headspace that is conducive for the plot of this movie, which
is Alexander Skarsgard losing his like reality or his morals and his humanity by being surrounded
by these people that he ends up being with, but also the environment and being in this
resort town houses and all of that stuff.
And it just this movie is benefits so much from it being at a resort as opposed to like
even cosmopolous or whatever, when you're in America or in a city, it just presents
so many questions and then also to if it was specific to a region, then there would you
couldn't do this rule about the cloning and the execution stuff, you know, all of that.
Sure you could talk about people paying to get away with stuff and we've seen movies
that, you know, kind of tackle that.
But yeah, I just the setting for this is fantastic.
You know, absolutely.
Yeah, the language that they put up and like the name of the place is like Leetoka.
Something like that.
And the it just is fully realized.
You see the masks very early on.
You see the markings on everybody's faces.
Excellent detail.
Love that detail because it's just such a clear sign of local, you know, in a in a way
that's just again visual and never brought up or discussed by me and got like, yes, and
they have those things on their faces.
And let me tell you what it means.
I do like how like flippantly she does do some of these explanations just like, yes,
the locals, it's their most sit prize drug and they do it for very, you know, and then
they just like it's like such a half ass sort of explanation or whatever.
Like she like she doesn't even fucking carry, but she's just kind of like as she says, she's
almost just like throwing in it.
And I just great performance choice as well.
And all of yeah.
And the casting of all those people I love I love that they all I don't know.
They just look they look like real people.
They don't look like they've done a lot of acting not to be mean or it just it just looks
like they they fill in these rich kind of like their their age and everything.
All just works works really well and they're not all just like, I don't know, like model
like super attractive.
Like they just look like real people.
And I kind of like that.
They like looking for sure, but it's good looking as anybody, anybody who is really wealthy in
the States or in London or whatever would be fairly good looking because they have the
income to go to all of the spas and do all of the stuff.
Yeah, for the ages, they look great for sure.
I just it may just added like a real element to it, especially in the orgy scenes and shit
where it just like, yeah, these there's just some rich older types that are just getting
their kicks, you know, and but this movie just makes it scarier and more dis and more
disgusting.
Yeah, like I as wide shut sort of thing reminded me a little bit of that 100 percent great
analog because yeah, like the fact that these this group of people it's almost like acting
is the secondary thing, the more important thing is is I want people who look like the
type of people who would go to this place and do these things.
And the casting is fantastic.
It's a bunch of people who are like in their fifties ish, like forties to fifties.
And I was like triangle sadness.
The casting in that was it was really gay too.
And they're there.
Yeah, they're elements of of that that reminded me of this movie.
But the overall.
Like him the devolving into what actually happens, them going to the beach, Mia goth.
Before that, oh, yeah, there's the failing naturally.
I love that scene because that really hinges on how good her as an actress playing an actress
can pull that off of cutting the bun or like I need the bun cutter or bun or whatever.
It was just awesome.
It was like such a great like table setting.
Or the dynamic between the group.
And you know, you got to you got to feel for the splintering between him and James and
his wife of like how they felt about the other pair and like leaving the place the next day
and borrowing the car and how James he was just like, yeah, fuck it, let's do it because
he's just looking for any sort of excitement in his life because he's dead inside and he's
trying to look for inspiration.
So he's just in my mind, just, you know, reaching out for for anything.
And then we get to the yeah, the beach scene where he's before.
Yeah, before that.
Yeah.
I just I've unfortunately been a part of a dinner where this has happened.
But a bun cutter.
No, I wish that was fun.
I loved that, especially how excited her husband was about like, oh my God, let me move this
stuff away.
I loved I like, oh, yeah, show him this.
You're great at this.
Like, I love that because especially in comparison.
And this is the thing that I've unfortunately experienced is like going to a dinner with
a couple who maybe aren't totally at this point, but are at a point where they can talk
to talk to another couple about each other in this way.
Oh, it just is it gives me the chills because like her clearly saying like he is a charity
case.
Like he hasn't been the passive aggressive work.
All of that stuff to people you just met.
I'm kind of like.
So you're there airing out some dirty laundry a little bit.
He was being down on himself in front of everyone, but they were they were prying a bit.
Yeah, that was an uncomfortable moment for sure.
It's honestly, man, it's just something that I have such a hard time wrapping my mind around.
Maybe if I was in a relationship longer, I would get why would happen.
But even then it's like to experience a couple where one is like dogging on the other one
to in my case, I'm usually like the person they just recently met and we're like going
out to dinner or whatever.
Right.
And to dog on your husband so openly.
And then what is he going to do?
Oh, he's kind of delicate.
Whatever.
Like, oh, he married rich, which is like at first was like, and then what does she say
after?
So well, she also talks about it at the beach.
And they're kind of pushing it a bit and everything.
Yeah.
Because I mean, they're just having the typical conversation at dinner with people you just
met is like, what do you do for work?
And so, you know, she she what does she do for work regardless?
Like, and then they get her the M. I can't remember.
But then they get to him and he's, you know, I'm a writer, but I haven't written anything.
And then the me and Goss husband is like, Oh, so what do you I've been waiting for your
next book, James.
When is it when is it coming?
I don't know.
Oh, right.
And they just like keep on like, yes, that's how it goes.
Yeah.
And then he's like, yeah, I wish you would fucking right.
And then she clearly says like, no, he is not writing.
It's been a long time.
I'm getting really fed up with it.
I have to foot all of his bills and just like at the bread course, like it's like, I don't
know, man.
It's palpable.
It's and he's just it's so close my mind.
He doesn't make it any easier on himself.
And I agree that it's it's weird, but like he is so down on himself.
And yeah, it's clear that she's not willing even in that moment to like lighten him up
because that conversation has run dry between them so much that you can tell that she's
kind of fed up with it a bit.
So she's not even giving him encouragement necessarily.
It's more like Mia Gothen.
I need to find the character's name.
Her husband are like more being like, Oh, it's okay.
You'll figure it out.
And I think they do a good job of, uh, yeah, playing out the tension.
Well, yeah, because I mean, you have to diffuse it.
I mean, that's the thing, right?
Is like in that situation, when that happens, I'm always like, okay, then let's, you know,
let's talk about something else, obviously, because it's a sore subject about, you know,
you making an income or your contributions and whatnot.
But to your point is, is it's specifically the thing that really blows me away that somebody
in a relationship could put their partner down so clearly and so quickly into a conversation
with people that you don't know that well is insane.
And I don't understand why.
Why don't you with people that you don't know, even if you're fucking lying, why don't you
just build your partner up?
Like sure, go have that fucking argument.
You know, in your room, whatever strangers.
That's what I'm saying.
Like to hit it shows how I'm a stranger in that conversation.
And like if I was, you know, like if if you and your wife were to have that conversation,
it would be totally different because we've known each other for so long.
Sure, maybe doesn't need to happen at dinner.
But like if you need to have it, if you need guys need to have it out, then do it.
But like, they just met these people like, like this is how you start.
I just, I don't know.
It just shows her care.
It shows M's character clearly that she also, and then to find out once they get to, you
know, to for the plot, like if she goes off to the beach on her own earlier that morning
and everything, the, the what's going on between them is not, is not good.
And even when they, when they, I'm not sure, like it's near the end of their trip as it
is.
And they're kind of like, this doesn't seem like they got a lot out of it.
Yeah.
Which he got what he got, what he wanted out of it because they were going to alleviate
his writer's block and almost seem like in it, doesn't seem like he got what he needed.
And I think that's frustrating both of them and they're passively, passively aggressively
taking it out on each other.
And then they go to the beach.
They have a, oh, James, would you, you simply must have another sausage.
You must have another sausage, Brandon.
You must have another sausage.
If I have another sausage, James, I'm going to throw up.
And then you'd say, okay.
Then can you throw up now so you can eat another one of these?
Cause you're so good.
I was like, there's some other thing they like.
It's that, that weird kind of likes, I love how stilted some of that stuff comes across
sometimes.
And I, that's kind of where I'm referring to the, the crew a little bit more where the,
yeah, some of the stilted lines between them work really well for how weird things come
across and like a David Lynch, like a Lynchian sort of way.
And they just met each other too.
So that that's working for them as well.
They just met each other.
Yeah.
And then doing this little, little beach, beach cruise.
He goes off to relieve himself and that transition from what is falling on the ground is something
seems uncomfortable to go straight for impeding to that, but that's just speaking from, from
trying to imagine that as a man.
I mean, unless he circumcised, that would have been a very uncomfortable time because
he is, it's not like there is any lube and he's going piss in a fucking at a beach.
And then she just, yeah, so she starts jerking them off while he's going pee in a brush.
The look on scars, guards, face, and the words that you're so funny is kind of comical because
after he gets this drive by jerking, he almost starts like he becomes hunched over and just
becomes such a like a, I like, I don't know, like folded in and like defeated man where
he just, and it's only fun.
He's not drunk in that hill drive, but he looks like kind of wasted in a way.
He's like his hair is all like fucked up and his eyes are kind of just like squinty and
yeah, he's kind of like, I'll drive you no problem.
And then shit starts and then it turns into I know what you did last summer for a moment.
Yeah.
Um, so he, okay, so just a wine bag, just a tad.
We might have to go quicker at a certain point if we're going to go.
But I'm obsessed with this is like, okay, so first off this, what's happening or like
how this scene is shot is representative of a lot of shots in this movie that I love a
fuckload, which is when something, when somebody is talking that you need to focus on or there
is an action that is happening that you need to focus on it is close up.
Like there are scenes in this movie.
Like you know, the night before they get to the beach where he gets a drive by jerking,
there's like the camera will be completely zoomed in on the mouth.
You can see almost nothing other than their mouths and then it'll cut between the two
people talking.
And to your point about sexuality is that's that is visually conveyed in doing that.
There are so many very, very close up shots of people's body parts that implies this sexuality
to it.
And so in this drive by jerking, it is like super zoomed on piss hitting the ground and
then it comes back.
He comes in and another camera thing that I love that happens a little bit after this
is there are a couple of scenes where the person in the foreground is in focus, but
the person in the background who obscencially is what you should be focusing on because
they're doing the action.
The person in the foreground is like sitting there or standing there or whatever, and they
are blurred and it is them coming into focus to do like to engage with that subject that
is in focus in the camera or in the scene.
Love that.
It's so cool to like it's almost like you're visually in the person who's focused like
head.
Like I am that person and I'm almost like hearing and barely seeing the things in my periphery.
And then when that person gets into my periphery, that's when the camera focuses in on it.
So sick.
Like I haven't seen that.
I don't know if I've ever seen that.
But so that happens with the drive by jerking and it clearly shows him coming.
So I just I just want to make the point.
I know me making a point of come.
I get it.
It's old hat, whatever, but teeth goes through with that.
So there's something there that's like he is not a good person.
Like if there's a save the, you know, the whole save the cat thing.
If this is the reverse, this is blow the load.
Like this signifies he's not a good person and sets you up.
This is less than 20 minutes into the movie.
Oh, yeah.
He's devolving quick because he's such a blank fucking slate.
He's such a sad, amorphous blob of a slate to lay upon whatever fucking scammer ideas
that these these people are putting upon him because he's seeking out something that he
doesn't even know what it is.
And me got the praise upon that and manipulates him through sexuality, like almost first
and foremost, and he's such and he's just kind of dumb and he falls for it too.
He's like doesn't like logically think out some of these things and just is kind of like
going with the flow of everything and is showing that side very quickly.
Like you're like you're saying right off the bat and is already willing to trust these
people.
Just why?
Because they boost she boosted his ego for a bit.
That's why he's willing to go along with them a bit more is because she's giving him
sexual attention and like boosting his ego with saying that she loves his books, book
or whatever and all that shit.
And he hasn't gotten that from his wife in a while because he's he's such a, you know,
just not confident in himself.
And so what he's seeking out is just something to write about and something new and different
and they find themselves in a situation where he's just immediately put in a position to
have to run away like a coward as well and not stick up for himself at any point.
Could have stuck up for himself with me a golf given the drive by jerking.
No, could have stick up for himself and gone to the police immediately.
You know, would have gone maybe arguably the same way and fess up to it, you know, right
off the bat.
No, he's just going to be complicit and fucking run away and be a coward with that as well.
And then take the take the easy way out when it's presented to him constantly and not,
you know, and even with like all the password thing, he's just like, oh yeah, my bad.
My buddy can do this.
You just got to do this thing for me.
He's just constantly going along with other what other people tell him.
And for, you know, as a very flawed straight man in this in this performance, he just does
it so so well.
I've this one.
I know, like there's been numerous performances with him, which I've really liked.
Obviously the Northman, even like big little lies that's that's in the cool kids.
And then there's like, there in a very toxic relationship him and Nicole Kimmon, which
he does an amazing job with that as well.
But this one really just pushed me over the hill with him of like how much I really would
like to see movies with just knowing that he's going to give a performance in it beyond
just like him happening to be in good movies, which he's done quite a few lately.
I actually like want to see more of his performances because he kind of just blew my mind some
of the commitment that him and Mia got gave to little little baby Cronenberg here.
Yeah.
So they get back into the gate with the with the key cards and all that stuff.
They wake them up the next morning and we go into fucking crazy town from from here on
out in the movie.
And I feel like this is only yeah, like 20, like you're seeing 20 minutes or so into the
movie is when he's presented with very matter of factly by by this man, the detective or
whoever it is of I just love he's like, hey, would like a cigarette?
Okay.
Let me explain.
He's like, oh, so detective Irel Thresch Thresch.
He's like, you know, just her just perfectly delivering these lines in a way that you know
he's being manipulated by him as well played by Thomas Kresch Kreschman great performance.
And yeah, I just have to say you didn't rent the car.
So I ask you to say you didn't have the car.
And so he's like, OK, so you stole it.
So you're going to be, you know, it's death.
And so it's usually the first born.
Luckily, this guy has numerous son.
He's just rolling through this shit.
And these lines, which another movie in less lesser hands with these ideas would just like
and like emphasize these moments and be like, what's happening?
No.
Oh my God, him like freaking out and being really dramatic about it is just like roll
through real quick.
And I love that effect that it has on you as audience to and it further caters to that
first person narrative that he's placing upon you that that also caters to the voyeuristic
side of it as well, but also the side of like just being lost in the mix of what's going
on and that feeling.
Yeah, waiting a long time and having someone come in and just give you a half, you know,
sort of explanation about what's happening.
But then all he cares about is like, oh, OK, so I'll get to go.
OK, whatever.
I'll just sign it.
Like he again, another moment for him to follow up.
So like follow up a little bit.
He doesn't do any of that.
He's just so just like, OK, whatever.
He's just a lost little lamb and a dog, if you will.
But he gives he goes for it.
And what do you think of?
Yeah, you can stop me at any point, but I was going to talk about some of these sets.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, walking into the cloning room and also the execution room are great sets.
Oh, sure.
Yeah, I'll mention those two.
But I want to talk about detective three.
I looked at I looked at that.
What else is the end?
I don't know.
I looked at that last name because I was because I did want to try to get an idea of like, is
this by and large trying to be this one area?
And so it's like Thresh last name and it is a English name has been found in the US.
Now, nowhere was it like Eastern European or anything like that, which I found really
interesting because there's the aesthetic of the government building or whatever is so
interesting because it's like really run down, not very empty.
It seems it seems kind of like Russian.
Yeah.
Almost like communist architecture and it's all you see very few people working there
and all of them are military that you do see.
And a couple things about what you just said, though, specifically is I love the small detail
of again, because I love this about this movie is close zoom in of him dropping the
cigarette while he while detective Thresh is in the chair and stomping it with his heel.
And you can see that there's like 10 cigarettes there.
And and also to add to your point about it is his.
Like, Lausse fair, like not Lausse fair, his.
Clinical approach to this is also incredibly interesting where he has this attitude where
he's done this a bunch of times, then shows you the cigarettes that clearly show that
he's done this a bunch of times and he just walks through very like if you went to the
DMV like OK, so you know, explains to him like, OK, so all of these people said that
you killed this person.
So in this case, yeah, like in this country, you're going to get executed.
But if you pay this fee because of this rule that we have for tourists, you can clone yourself
and then it is so wild how like discombobulated Alexander Skarsgard is because to your point,
right, like he isn't asking any questions.
Literally the dialogue is the detective explaining all of all of this stuff and him just going
like, huh?
Yeah, what?
Where is she?
OK, and then just signs the paper and then he's off to the races.
And yeah, now this next part.
I love this approach to not needing to show exactly how this works.
Like that's not the fucking point of the movie because it's they clone you.
So you know what?
Whatever they do to do it, it works.
And sometimes I love the little explanation, whatever, like some half ass explanation later
were like, oh, yeah, like we kept on trying to figure out the scientific hour or whatever
it's all about.
What did they say?
The it was just some sort of like it was more holistic or some some not bullshit, but like
some shit like that through the way they were describing it.
Sound like bullshit.
It could be fully thought out and really interesting, but they don't give a fuck because they just
use it as a use it and take advantage of it as a way, you know, to funnel money out of
rich people who visit.
But I mean, the rich people use it.
Yeah.
And whatever its actual purpose is, you don't even really get to know that either because
it really is just what they use it for and whatever this drug as well and all that stuff.
Yeah, totally because this isn't as sci fi as it could be where people like that.
I don't know, there's easily another version of this movie where people at like the airport
or the resort, you know, you find out, oh, their clones to a stolen or some shit.
Yeah, I Ross.
It's like, no, it's just for if you commit a heinous crime, creating a clone to get executed.
I love how definitive and straightforward that is.
I also love the homage in the in the creation of the double to diamonds are forever.
I think that's so fun.
Is what like the little like thing he's in.
What is the homage?
It's getting cloned in like goo in the goo.
Yeah.
And which is in the beginning of diamonds are forever.
There's this whole like, yeah, potatoes or some shit.
It's like this brown goo that people get put in to get like not in them in diamonds
or forever.
It's not cloned, but it's like facial reconstruction or body like some transformation to get turned
into blow felt.
Yeah, it's like turning into a person that already exists into a into a blow felt.
Yes, but how similar is it in this movie that it's like, I'm going to create a clone in
goo.
I love it.
All of this stuff made it was just you.
We started this conversation.
You talked about sci-fi and not needing a lot of effects wise, and this is exactly the
point that I was I was bringing up with this whole cloning process.
And then they give you enough and they make it almost like you don't want to see it all
because it looks kind of gross and weird and and you kind of like want to look away, but
you keep you keep looking or whatever you're like.
And that's again, I keep saying it before you're a sick thing where you're just like,
oh, I don't know.
Do I want to see this?
And it's it's it's giving you like these glimpses and everything.
And then, yeah, seeing his face and the horror that they have and the connection between
this you and getting shuffled away gives you just enough of all those things.
It gives you a little bit of horror.
It gives you a little bit of the tantalizing sort of like nature of like getting of seeing
yourself cloned.
And then it turns violent, which says everything you need to know about the character moving
forward is his reaction to it.
In the cloning process, it gets very psychedelic and the music is so fucking sick.
Tim Hecker love him.
He's a he's a lot like ambient music that I listen to a lot.
Good for reading and everything.
But it's like in my mind how I think of it like when I listen to his music, it is kind
of like, oh, yeah.
You see here, here, a wall of sound you think of like, you know, more like the whatever a
lot of it, but this is more kind of just like ambient, but also just like just washed out
almost like shoe gazey, but electronic sort of sounds that kind of meditative and sometimes
have more of a beat, but other times really are just an atmosphere that it puts you in
experimental for sure.
But how do you say like Daniel Lopton only had tricks point nowhere like the uncut gems
and everything and and using these types of guys for like the Softie Brothers and Cronenberg
using these guys for their music and everything.
I fucking love it.
And I know we've talked about Fincher and everything as well.
And not to say that he's the first guy to do it or anything, but his use of the, you
know, nine inch nails guys and Resner and Atticus and like that adding to the soundscape
of everything is changes everything about the movie.
It blows your mind.
The audit auditory, the sound design of everything just can change change everything that you
experience throughout.
So definitely worth mentioning.
Another thing about that drugs, all that music for that part too, just amazing.
Oh yeah.
He sees a naked woman.
Do you think that's Mia got like why?
Why in that transformation and going through that process?
He sees a naked woman.
I was kind of confused by that.
I didn't understand like because it's obviously like he's kind of turned on or there's a sexuality
to it, but I just, I was kind of confused by why include a naked woman in that process.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
All of the weird stuff that they're doing to fuck with them makes me just want to start
theorizing about stuff and thinking that she somehow paid dude off to see the process or
fuck with him before he got executed because she was aware of everything because she was
kind of orchestrating things from the beginning.
And there could just be something that is a visual thing that's trying to express whatever
he's going on through his subconscious about him, imagining Mia got than having a sexual
fantasies about her.
It could be simple, something more simple just like that.
That's fair.
But yeah, because he got the drive by Jack and earlier.
So, you know, he's just he's in his thoughts, thought dreams.
And then his torso is is is splayed open by a young boy.
Typical Cronenberg shit.
Shit is upset.
One of the most upsetting, if not the most upsetting parts of the movie, I think, because
it's just so visceral and so repetitive.
And as that stabbing motion escalates, you do see a fair amount.
And I must say, I do like the color of the blood in this movie because it's like stupid
red, dumb red, like dumb red, like fun movie red, even though what has happened is fucked
up.
It just adds to like, like, I don't know the really red nature of it.
And although it's all frothy and everything, it just visually looks good.
So that's all that matters.
Yeah.
And I mean, if you were to just it really continues to blow me away.
If I were to just think about that scene and all the parts that comprise it is there is
a 14 year old boy stabbing a man who is a clone who is screaming out for his girlfriend
because it's been explained to us that he's going to have all of the memories.
Oh, yeah.
And it's a prestige situation, my friend.
And then to also
Threat me with the time and include them watching this.
I just I made the note to myself.
Explaining that scene to somebody.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
No.
And then having him be like smiling while it's happening.
It's just like that as a scene in itself, Kronenberg, me must be like, yeah, this is
yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is it.
Right.
But the question I had for you was in that situation for scars, scars sitting on the
bleachers and sitting there.
Who do you think that if you were to just pick, who do you think that's more difficult
for to watch?
Well he seemed to be tantalized by because he was smiling by the end.
So within that character's mind.
And that was a point of contention later between them was she was like, I don't know how you
could just stand there and be so, you know, just let my mind about that scene.
Okay, what's what's your thing?
Is that scene reminded me when they're in the bed talking about it of I think you should
leave that where everything reminds you.
I know, I know, but hear me out.
Hear me out that bit and I think you should leave where they go to the like comedian or
magician and then Tim goes up and they he like makes fun of his like dick or something
like that and then they then it cuts to them in bed together and then Cecil Strong, I can't
remember her how to pronounce her name, Cecilie Strong is the wife and then she so there,
you know, Tim gets into bed and his notices that she's kind of despondent just like them
in the movie and then she says nothing and then he kind of presses her is like, what's
going on and then she tells them like, I can't believe you let that comedian make fun of
in front of everybody.
And then she just goes on this whole tirade of like, do you have a baby dick?
Do you have a baby dick?
Because it's you know, I sounds like Jada Pinkett's.
I know, right?
Yeah.
And there's a part of it.
Yeah, it just it totally made me think of that.
I'm to keep my fucking name out of their fucking mouth.
So I'm sorry.
Yeah, I know a lot of things make me think of I think you should leave.
But that moment where she's like, I can't believe you just like sat there and watch
because again, it's like it's not like I had a fucking choice.
No, but I mean, she she must have glanced over and saw a smirk because it's a very he
was like he was not shine away, he was not like kind of like not wanting to look like
her or anything.
I'm sure she liked to look away and he was just eyes are just like wide open.
And he's like smiling of it.
And she's like, what?
And then he gets his little urn and he's just like, he, he, he, he.
And I also want to say that actor for the boy really good because when he comes back
up later, his face is terrifying for that dream sequence.
Oh my God.
That was so scary how they shot the camera was looking down at him.
So it just showed the shadows of his forehead and his nose and everything.
And his smile was like Grinch likes stretch on his face.
And so yeah, great performance by him.
But man, they made him look scary.
And when he came up to to stab him or whatever in that in that dream sequence.
So definitely like horrific elements, those and two of them involving that boy.
Oh, really scary.
But this is where, yeah, whatever sort of passive passive aggressive sort of things
between the two of them reach ahead as they try to leave.
He doesn't have his passport, which you find out later he hid.
Is that what that was?
Okay.
That's the implication.
Yeah.
And then he didn't know how much he transitioned already to that place when he saw it happen.
Like he came home obstensively and then hid the passport and then pretended to look for
it and then explained to his wife like, I don't know.
I don't know where it went.
I don't know.
I'm sorry.
If you want to if you want to leave without me, then go for it.
And he wants to stay and get weird with Mia goth and and see how how far you can take
it if you're loathing in Leetoka.
Yes.
I mean, this is where like I'm just like constantly they're doubling down and as am
I as the audience viewer in in what they're throwing at me and curious this early in the
movie too.
And I know this has already been a pretty long discussion just this far, but it's just
this kind of movie.
But I'm in and I'm curious how long they can withstand this steam.
And for me, as it goes along, I think it does. And I think the, you know, at this next portion,
I'd say is when he's getting along with the crew being hazed a little.
He's super hardcore.
He's later, which is the following is the falling out of it.
But coming into it, he's he's interested.
You find out later that is very purposeful that he's staying there.
And all the stuff about him doing this stuff for a passport as well.
You start to retroactively think about that.
And I love that the movie doesn't make you like, oh, yeah.
And you remember that one part we said that.
Well, also, he didn't even need to pass for it.
Like they just show the password in the bathroom.
But the guy tells him his buddy can get him a new password.
And they just want to go to, is it like the mayor of the town?
Yeah, or the owner of the room.
Or one of the two.
OK, and steal has like a ward that he got for a good public service or some shit.
Like a very heinous fucked up thing to do to somebody who is
a good community member for this place that you're visiting.
It's like the most fucked up thing that they're like just floating by him.
And they have they pull out a gun while he's in the bathroom as well.
And they're just in there and they is that's where they pull it up to him.
Is what they have the gun.
They kind of threaten them to do it as well.
Yeah. So things are getting weird quick.
Yeah, things are getting very weird.
And so, yeah, and they already have the conversation of like you could you could
be the clone like or you could be the real one.
They have a cool shop behind this when that happens. Yeah.
They do positive that idea.
I mean, just similarly to the extent of knowledge that they have about the place
that they're at in the surrounding area and also just there.
Their overall opinion about the people there and how much they're,
you know, better than them.
It really is.
Yeah, it's just a very clear plotting of this person is important to these people.
But we also know that the people here aren't taken care of very well.
So like.
Kind of fuck this guy or like let's fuck with him.
And then also, too, there's an implication when he gets there.
He's like having sex with some girl like maybe a prostitute.
I like I don't I don't quite know.
But like it does kind of like.
Suggest that this guy might be almost not like a corrupt politician.
Like a corrupt politician.
Yeah, but who knows.
And they're not the ones.
Yeah, that would know or judge or whatever.
I forget what their beef is with.
Do they do?
Do they have like any sort of specific issue with or is it just to fuck with them?
I feel like.
Or maybe they like he like sentence sentence them in the past
and they're trying to get back at him.
I was trying to remember exactly.
It's just so rushed.
They they threaten him with the gun while they're there.
It really just seems like they're there to get their kicks off
in like a funny game sort of way where they strip him down and tie him up.
Yeah.
And Mia got threat like is trying to egg Jamesy on to execute them.
And it's all just they're all just not giving a single fuck
and being and having a good time while doing all of this.
Then it turns into like an action scene for a second
because it gets stormed by by the cops.
Right. And like in a shot.
But Mia got this like screaming and she's so good.
She's so good.
It's like, oh, my.
Oh, just her face is amazing.
And her her dude gets shot, I think.
But they.
Yeah, they all the leg right.
Yeah. But they all get rounded up.
And this is the second cloning and where they all get executed together.
And I and I just strike.
This is this is again, prestige level element to this movie as well.
This movie kind of has everything because it's the whole.
Idea of you never know if you're going to be the one in the box or the one,
you know, and on the stage taking the bow.
And this is the one where they were the ones to be executed.
And then the final, you know, rush moment of looking up
and seeing them all clapping and and happy and everything
cinematically works really well.
Justifies, you know, the true like treachery of this crew
and shows that shows that side of things were like, oh, they're going to do it
a second time.
Like, oh, why are we doing a second time?
But there's reasons for this in the screenplay to ramp it up with the second.
Way of portraying it differently.
differently. And then through this process, you get the, yeah, true
splintering with him and his, his wife, where he comes back with a second,
she's gone. She's out of there, right? Is around when she leaves. And then
he really don't, he really like commits to the crew. And that's where they
kind of stab him in the back through, you know, really uncool hazing ritual.
Everything was cool up to that point. He is. He's totally down with everything.
And then he's, then he saw the news. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I'm not going to piss on myself, guys.
Do that enough already.
Is what he said. Yeah.
I mean, this movie is working up to the point of all of these other people
who are just corrupting or helping in the transformation of Alexander Skarsgar
to be like them. And we reach ahead, which is like the final test.
This is like, can you, can you kill yourself? You know, and it's so like
metaphorical, right? And you just reach ahead.
Reach a point in this movie where, yeah, it's this is it. This is the final test.
And yeah, he fails that, right?
I like how the rules aren't steadfast or ironclad or anything.
It's just like these weirdos that are just kind of like, yeah, this is how we
celebrate a vacation and like, oh, we all did this. You got to do it too.
Almost like a fraternity or something that's like slowly forming into a cult.
But and Mia got just being like some weird de facto leader of it all because
she's just an actress that can just speak the loudest. It really just seems as
far as it goes. Like she's she's good at public speaking, according to her.
She can get the loudest of them all.
But they're all just like using him as to get their kicks as well.
He still is outside of the crew.
They don't. And this is, yeah, like you're saying, the final sort of process
to get him in. You rejects it. This is where he tries to leave.
Third act, I'd say, is beginning here.
And when he's leaving the bus and there was another shot when you're talking
about the focus that I thought they did a really cool job of him rounding
the bend in the bus.
The focus switched from the scenery to the bus to just like the middle
ground of the bus to just really fluid motion, which was only like a three
second shot, whatever. And to just, you know, have that be a part of the tapestries
is something that just shows the other control of the subtlety of the director
and everything. And you feel that kind of breath of a moment, like,
you know, the tension of him leaving, but then like, am I actually going to get
away? And you know that, like, something's going to go wrong and it surely does.
And this is some of the best for Mia goth is where she's threatened him to come
out of the bus and Jamesy Jamesy.
Straying. Yeah.
Bring the trade of whatever, like.
Little snowy.
Take this whatever.
So all the weird shit she says, these are some weird stuff.
And.
Then the walk.
I just it's fun to kind of go through the motions of this movie a bit.
Sorry if it's a drag, but just him him walking back with the with the car
and everything running into the into the bush and getting shot.
All all really good and still ramping up in my mind.
I'm not checked out at any point of this.
And then being presented, you know, he he goes and escapes away
in this little little shack or whatever.
It has a fucking terrifying dream.
Yeah, it might be the scariest, the scariest moments for me as well.
And then, yeah, is presented once again, finally with.
You know, the test to kill himself.
I guess we didn't mention the drug scene earlier.
I just got to mention that was really fucking cool.
All the visuals of that and everything and how they take the drug and the root
and all that.
That is what he's been huffing this clone and they got him.
Just like a dog and he's a dog and he's on a leash chanting Tatum style.
And like, this is the end.
And.
What a fucking, yeah, final moment.
Showdown of the movie.
It's it's interesting to go through the motion again of explaining it
because it's such a weird, fresh idea of like, yeah, so his clone dog
form huffing the drug.
He's got a kid.
It's like such a weird.
Try to explain to somebody as like who had never seen this movie.
Just like, you know, like I'm saying in the playground, you're talking about
scanners. Oh, yeah.
Have you seen it?
Philip is pretty cool.
I mean, I've seen it.
I've seen it.
What is pretty cool?
But again, it's got to kill his dog clone self and they wrestle for a bit.
And I thought all of that, how they edit amazing editing for the stunt double
and him to have that the tussle just impeccable and.
Scars guard to commit to the part of being a dog.
It's just the commitment is adds to it so much.
And the implication doesn't.
And what do you what do you think of the ending in this movie?
Yeah, I was going to ask.
Yeah.
So he kills his dog version because his dog version is trying to kill him.
So out of.
So he finally makes kind of a decision.
Yeah, because he's been pushed to the point or whatever.
It's just the implications of the ending.
Man are so like payoff in such a like in a multitude of ways where.
He is initiated, but not in the way that they want him to.
He has beaten himself, which is a conflict that has been a part of this movie.
And there's just there's just a bunch of things that are implied by him
killing himself in that moment.
And that's really just a credit to the movie to be able to set up like.
With this action, all of these things now have closed or become true.
Whether that's the logic of that, the screenplay and the story of the movie
to end on that note works within the logic of this weird fucking group.
Is that being the final final act works for whatever reason
that you're not going to get fully explained, but she's like, this is the final
to OK, whatever it doesn't.
There's no rule book.
There's no like what it is.
Just this is what we do because this is what we do.
And it is so again, thrown away that the next day, driving back and everything,
they're just right back to normalcy and talking about their day to day.
There's a breastfeeding thing.
I forgot to mention that.
Forgot to mention that.
Yeah.
That's a big moment where I'm.
I'm already just at the edge of my seat.
And then that moment fucking happens because she rubs the blood.
The blood of the dead and he doesn't like resign to it.
He like gets into it.
And I'm like just like.
Oh, I think it was a nice.
Oh, yeah.
Just completely flabbergasted.
Acid, my own mind blown, which.
In a satisfying way, though, I don't know.
There's like another there's another movie which was a fine movie.
It was pretty good, but I'm not sure if I would see it again and went so far with
like the allegory and everything that it was just like being in my head
against the wall a little bit was men.
The movie, the movie Men.
Sure. And by the end of that movie, I was just like, like, OK, like this is
this is too much, but this is just does it in spurts.
It is meaningful.
What's happening in a way, like at least to the character that is doing it.
And the ideas all check out within.
The escalation of everything.
And by the time it relieves itself.
You I think the loops are pretty much closed.
Then again, logic of the movie, logic of the crew, like it's it's close for him.
The only thing is he has the kind of graduate, the graduate moment
writing back on the bus, you know, where he's just kind of like.
Oh, darkness, my friend.
Dude, I was really at the end of his mind is still, you know,
because he's sitting in the rain.
It's like in the rainy season, the rain, why they have the beautiful
the rain washes away the thing he killed.
He ended it with himself.
It's like everything's being absolved in this weird fucked up sort of sort of way.
Just like a vacation, but he's irrevocably changed.
And I was waiting for the hokey thing of like him at like a book signing.
Like some like Eli Roth would do or something.
I don't know why I'm not a lot of it.
But like he's like in his called infinity pool and he wrote the book about it or something.
And now everybody's everybody's vacationing there and making clones of themselves.
And it's not a secret anymore.
And it's all like highly reviewed on the old thing you can like.
And now it's going to be infinity pool to where there's going to be a bunch of clones
and bunch of people and it is it is a worldwide cult.
Yeah, that would also be like the ending of a M Night Shyamalan, right?
Is just really fucking up the ending by thinking that people need
that type of closure in this movie.
And it's it works so much better for you to go like, yeah, I don't know what's
going to happen to him, but he's going to forever be changed for this.
And that's for certain.
So yeah, Shyamalan, it's a little bit more like the artifice,
like the the construct of the movie that he's creating, like what the whole thing means,
like the whole world and all that.
What and this is just so good at putting you in the first person mind
of how it's affecting this one person that's going through the ringer of all these experiences.
And you get it get it enough just through his perspective
and you don't have to have some ulterior character at the end.
Like, OK, let me sit you down and tell you what just happened.
Right. You just get his face just like fuck.
And he's sitting in the rain.
He says, mine is still there's I don't know.
It's it's a. No, you're totally right.
I'm also thinking like.
Like an M Night Shyamalan ending would be is like then it pans to
the signage of the building that the cloning is in.
And it's like U.S.
Biotics or something like that, you know, they show like the
yeah, like the the bottom of like the lab or whatever and all like the backup clones are there.
And all the people working at the lab are like clones of of they all become like slaves.
And the island like runs on clone slave labor.
This movie smartly doesn't have any of that.
And that's why we are even though incredibly disturbed.
It sounds like you feel similarly to me.
I'm like, that was a pretty good fucking movie.
I had a great time.
It was fucking weird. And I loved it.
I kind of fucking loved it.
I kind of just like loved being thrown off and surprised
throughout the entire thing, just constantly surprised of what was going to happen next.
I feel like that doesn't happen too often.
And sometimes when it does, it's not for the best.
Like, you know, you and I threw on under the Silver Lake the other day.
And that's one where you're like, OK, this is kind of maybe this is going to be fun weird.
Oh, maybe this is going to be like so bad.
It's good and it kind of is and it kind of isn't.
And then by the end, it's just a fucking drag.
And there's and there's things that just fall flat in their face
when they're trying to get so up there, up there about about things like velvet buzz.
So I was almost thinking of that when you were watching under the Silver Lake,
where you definitely want to like it.
But this has for all the big ideas and weird shit that happens.
It's somehow subtle to and also like unique and in your face
and risky with its artistic choices, great performances,
artistic cinematography, amazing music and sound design.
How can I not? How could I not like it?
And so cool to know little
Baby Cronenberg is doing weird stuff, too.
I love it. Yeah, I agree.
It's a it's a good time.
I'm excited about his next movie.
Same, dude. And I want to go back and watch some more of his older stuff.
And then stuff I I've been wanting to watch possessor.
I've heard that was really good.
And the whole concept seems really interesting and weird body horror sort of stuff.
Yeah, antiviral broken tulips is a short.
That's a short.
Yeah, he's still still very new.
I possessor seems to be the the other one that's gotten gotten buzz as well.
And that's like, oh, yeah, body, body, switch and stuff.
All right. Well, this is the portion where we hear enough from us for now
and start to hear a little bit from those people that are deciding
what goes on our podcast, the audiences and the critics
and their disagreement of said movies.
We good.
You want to take a little break?
Yep. But before we get into that, let's take a quick break.
Break time.
We will return.
And welcome back, everybody.
Thank you so much for joining us on this very special infinity pool app.
But now we get to the the.
Point where we bring up those numbers once again to remind everybody
why we are here.
Mm hmm. People don't agree on this movie.
We may have said everything we feel about it,
but many people don't feel the same way.
The critics, for example, on Ron Tomatoes
have come to a consensus 87 percent certified fresh.
The audience and not so much.
They're feeling the the wintery cold.
Oh, 52. Oh, not not feeling it very much.
They're not into the infinity pool, but we're going to take a sampling
of those reviews. Let's check out some critics.
Words about this movie.
See what they have to say from Peter Bradshaw at the Guardian.
It's a movie straining for more than its achieving moment by moment.
But goth is toxic energy always holds the attention.
And praising the performance.
Hey, wait, wait a second.
I hear something like that chewing something and I don't like it.
Sorry, Luna, I'm going to get you.
OK, and I'm not editing editing this out, by the way.
Oh, please don't.
I just she's on my desk these days and I heard a chewing near the PC.
So now it's going to be a thing.
You just can't give her anything. Huh. Oh, Luna. OK.
You're in the podcast and are you happy? OK.
That was Peter Bradshaw.
What do we got from?
Christie Puchko, Mashable,
if any pool will make you squirm, but without the release of a climactic punch line.
Instead, the satire of wealth and privilege will leave you stranded in its putrid
buck, but perhaps smiling at the sheer gall of its horror.
Hmm. So critics are still providing a little bit of criticism
along with their praise from Peter Howell at the Toronto Star.
Oh, OK.
Just I like to get the whole sample and.
No, this is because these contribute to the scores.
So there is as viable as anybody.
Also to Cronenberg is Canadian.
That's right. And this is a Canadian Croatian.
Or some of the things at the beginning.
Brandon Cronenberg delivers the shivers and more than a few
WTF moments with a vacation inferno creeper that gnaws at the mind.
Three out of four.
Let's see what David Sims at the Atlantic has to say.
The premise of Infinity Pool was deliciously nasty enough
to keep me invested for most of its nearly two hour running time.
But at a certain point, every list, every last bit of allegory has been killed as well.
So it's.
There's some there's some there they're understanding that it's not for everybody.
Is I get what the critics are singing like.
I like it, but maybe not for everybody is kind of a little bit of tinge of some of these
from Jeanette Katzola's at New York Times.
Soaked in an atmosphere of unrelenting dread.
Infinity Pool works its canted camera angles in insistent drumbeat heavy score
to transfixing effect.
Hmm.
That's accurate.
Yeah, nice to highlight the score.
You don't see that too often.
From Michael Phillips, Chicago Tribune, three and a half out of four.
This will be the last one.
Kronenberg knows what he's doing, and this is his most assured act
of science fiction effrontery to date.
Oh, yeah. So he's getting better.
That's amazing.
I'll do one more.
This one seems Ed gives from time out.
This will be the last one.
It's one hell of a twisted ride with a troop of truly awful characters as our guide.
It's damn near unmissable and from a safe distance, addictive as all hell.
Wow, that guy seems like a good time.
Or is that was that a woman? I'm sorry.
It was Ed Gibbs from time out.
You dog. It's Ed. It's a little Ed.
Let's check out some audience reviews from the not so much feeling at range.
Let's see what they have to say from Chance Denault gave it a one star.
It seems like the horror movie genre is not aimed at being legitimate, terrifying anymore.
I've seen so many things that the general public rave about and say the best scary
movie I've ever seen, not aimed at this movie to be sure.
But I think starting with one of my favorite scary movies, hereditary.
Hereditary had a good mix between being a bit confusing at times
and being actually scary.
Infinity Pool has abandoned all tracks of what makes a good scary movie by throwing a random
chain of events at you.
Adding a bit of gore and paying someone to label it as a horror film.
I stayed throughout the movie because I figured there has to be some sort of connection at the end,
some grand reveal and there was.
Everyone involved in this movie had no idea where it was going either.
Whoever presented this storyboard is lazy.
And whoever approved it is insane.
At least I'll be able to tell other people not to waste their time.
People people are totally going to have an issue with this being so classified as a horror movie.
That yes, for sure.
But also the way that it ends as well, right?
Because there isn't such a clean ending.
It's just it's pretty ambiguous.
They want to get to the bottom and they probably want their protagonist to be like,
I'm going to stick up for myself and I'm going to go to the clone factory and take him out and
fuck up this crew and get my wife back.
From Kimberly Richards, one star out of five.
I have never been more upset in my entire life.
Here we go.
This is what I was waiting for.
This upset her more than anything in her entirely.
This movie accomplished was making me feel extremely uncomfortable and confused.
Absolutely no plot, just violence and unnecessary nudity with disturbing,
perverse visuals of body bodily secretions.
Not to mention, I know what's she's talking about.
Not to mention the fact that my partner and I had to choose to watch this movie or
outdoor movie night where we take the TV out on our balcony that faces the street
and put them together on our outdoor couch.
Oh, balcony movie.
That's a was it been from blank check.
Oh, yeah.
I was like a porch movie.
Yeah.
How am I now?
I am absolutely horrified that a neighbor could have seen one the many of one the many
obscene and grotesque scenes in this movie.
And now they think that they live next to a couple of mentally disturbed freaks.
We were too busy trying to shield our own eyes from the horror.
We didn't even have time to find the remote to fast forward or throw a blanket over the TV.
I was horrified.
I wish I could give this movie negative stars because it truly made me feel disgusted and
had absolutely no plot.
It was nothing like the description and I will never not be upset about the fact that
I wasted two hours of my life and six dollars on my money on this.
Just don't watch this movie in a public place.
Just a quick record.
It's just a quick record to that person is if the movies rated are maybe consider a different
movie for your your lawn outdoor movie.
You know, if it's rated are pass it, you know, man, I really wanted to watch when we were
like taking a flight when we did our cancun flight.
I want to like, oh, I kind of want to watch a Finchy Finchy movie.
Oh, sure.
But I was like, some of these that I'm on, like, I'm not sure it'd be appropriate.
And you just got to find the appropriate time to to watch a movie.
That's not going to hit a situation like that on my flight as well, where I watched
Booksmart and that has that's a good movie.
It's a good movie, but it's got a couple of scenes where I'm like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
yeah.
That was a Godfather meet for me recently.
It was a long, pretty long flight.
I'm like, I don't fucking sit down for sitting for Godfather and there's a topless moment
that I've completely forgotten about.
I was like, oh, I guess I'll pass or whatever.
But that's a good one to just.
I think my next flight I'm going to I'm going to watch Killers of the Flower.
Just sit in.
Let's do some more reviews here from the audience.
Just a few more from Galactic Cat one star.
I'd give zero stars if I could.
I've never had a movie that made me so physically unable to watch it.
The suspenseful music at the beginning goes on forever so you don't feel shocked when
the first killing takes place.
The orgy scene like most of the scenes doesn't need to be drawn out as long as it did.
Worst movie ever.
From Dakota Davis, a one star.
I honestly had to force myself to keep watching this drivel because I thought Alexander Skarsgard
would not make such a disaster of a movie.
But he did.
It's soft morick predictable and mature and just because it's made by a Cronenberg doesn't
mean it's going to be good.
Apparently.
I want the time I want this movie back.
Plot was predictable.
Sex scenes were laughable and over the top.
In general, it's best to just let this one pass on by.
Next time I see Alexander Skarsgard in a movie, I'll know that it doesn't mean it's good.
Same with Brandon Cronenberg.
If I could drop this rating to a zero, I would.
A lot of people not happy with that.
They only have the one star.
I'm sure you can't do negative or zero.
Or they want their time back, which is such a bizarre concept to me that how like 20 minutes
into this movie, you don't just make the decision like, I know, okay, let's not do this.
You know, right?
Like it presents its answer, right?
They want this fucking twist thing to come somehow come together.
Yeah, like a Shyamalan my ding dong twist.
Yeah, I just I don't get it, man.
I'll do one more JVAA one star.
Ah, is there a sadomasochism genre?
Sadomasochism is the pathological enjoyment from acts of inflicting and receiving pain and humiliation.
Thanks, buddy.
I did not watch the entire movie.
By the way, this movie is not a movie for empaths.
It was disappointing and annoying.
I have serious concerns.
I don't know what I have serious concerns about those who enjoy the movie.
I think they are reading too much into it.
They may be reading too much into it because they are brighter than the filmmaker who they declare as a genius.
Is this projection?
This will never be a classic film in any genre unless there is a I want to be science fiction junk genre.
Oh, it was a real psychoanalyzing going on there.
I was I was just brought up.
Sadomasochism gave a like a Google's definition and then said it wasn't for empaths.
I don't know if you can make that judgment.
No, I don't think so.
The movie seems, if anything, pretty empathic.
Like empathetic in the way that the the movie like is looking at its, you know, kind of piece of shit protagonist,
but also giving him the time and space to like make, I don't know, make or not make those decisions, which is also a decision rather than, I don't know, like we were saying earlier.
It's just like there's a lot of other movies that will look at the whole thing, do an ensemble piece like old or something like that and make it about a lot of characters,
or just try to get more into the twist, more into the horror.
This movie gets into the the psychological dread of one character going through this process of being introduced to these science fiction ideas.
But then it's a sci-fi movie, but then it's done on such like a grounded level of like group think and like the pressure there and then all of course all the classism and and tourism and and taking advantage of the of
the of the culture, all the stuff we talked about, I'm not going to get back into again. But it's able to just jump between all those ideas really well in my mind.
And I think for these people, it's it's the people that don't enjoy it.
It's a lot to shift between all of those different in their minds genres because they're trying to like put it in this pigeonhole into this sort of thing they want it to be.
And I'm guilty, like guilty of that of plenty of movies where I'm like, I want to be this way and other people want it exactly how it is and they enjoy it for what it is.
I would like to say that you the least guilty of that.
I'm being empathetic Brandon, and that's speaking to an empath who fucking enjoyed this movie.
So yeah, God, I wanted to stop you because you are selling yourself short by you go into things with such an open mind often.
And that is crazy to think about you being like having an internal struggle like I wanted this to be a thriller but it's a horror movie.
I could never really imagine you having that issue like if anything,
I just threw our discussions on that.
And I feel like I do. We do try to catch ourselves are like, yeah, it's it's we get to that point where like, oh, maybe if they did it more this way or more that way and then we usually catch ourselves where it's just kind of like,
but that one that might present another problem in this way or or or create something else that's missing over over here.
So in my mind, I throughout this podcast as well, it's like I'd almost rather have a polarizing movie than like a middling magnetized movie.
I'd rather have it like create an effect and create the discussion that we're having today and everything and this already by the trailer.
I'm like, yeah, that doesn't that's not going to appeal to everybody and even Papa Cronenberg movies for sure don't appeal to everybody and I'm glad he's taking his his his daddy's footsteps and that way.
But it more as we've said before too, it's just oh, just more for me cool, whatever.
I love it.
Almost love it that much more because in and we see that too and people have to especially more audience side where they feel like they have to defend it.
In this case, they're attacking and they're offended that they had to waste their time.
But even stuff that we like, do we ever express that really like I want my time back?
I don't know.
Never.
Well, because of foundation going through the process of this is fun enough that I never feel like to say.
Yeah.
I mean, at a bare minimum, even with the worst movies, which we just had one of the worst movies we've watched recently like.
To talk about it really just kind of supersedes talking about supplies.
Yeah, I'm 100%.
Oh my God.
But that supersedes how shitty of a movie that is that I get to talk about my friend.
Like, I don't know.
So yeah, I mean, this is a unique situation because not everybody is, you know, talking about an in depth with their friend.
You know, they're just watching it and having all these feelings about it.
And again, I understand too why people wouldn't like this.
It is just fascinating, the explanations that people gave that you just said, because clearly in my mind, I was like, well, people aren't going to like the fact that it's got a lot of fucking violence and a lot of sex in it, like super.
And it doesn't have a nice wrapped up ending.
Like those three things alone, I would not recommend this to certain people because of those.
Doesn't fit the the Blumhouse mold.
I don't know.
It doesn't have that.
I feel like in the third act, a lot of those it's it's like a fight.
Back or getting out and getting out of you.
Nailed it.
This has a tries to get out and then he has to succumb to it and I don't know.
It's psychological.
It's more internal.
I think in my mind, I've been I feel like glowing about everything on this.
So I almost want to try to think of a criticism I can I can lay on it or something like that.
And it's kind of hard for me to come up with because it's just like it kind of checks all the boxes for me.
And then it also surprises me.
I wouldn't I wouldn't really want to change much about it.
I think it if I were to read it as a book or something to I think the ideas would just be really cool.
I was like a little sci-fi short story and it's yeah, it's like two hours flat.
I don't and I don't feel it like it drags at any point by 20 minutes in.
You are in it and you know a lot about what's going on already.
And then the shift with the whole crew of people.
Yeah, what would I criticize about?
I think there was a moment where I'm like, yeah, why are they just attacking this random politician that was a little.
But just like, yeah, let's just go fucking do it.
But and I was confused as to why and why he was so you know, he had a gun pointed to him.
And all of that just ends up working where you I really feel like I'm in scars guards visit in James's position.
And it is effective in putting you in the position of feeling confused. And yeah, that's probably some audience members rejected that feeling as like the writers don't know what they're doing and they're not giving me enough.
But I felt like they were bread crumbing it out in a way that escalated the action started to reveal more and more about what our main character was capable of and what he was going to be driven to.
And what he was going to be driven to by these these people and the tripping out drug scene or G's, you know, taking off the mask and it's him all beat up and all that stuff.
Like, I can. We just charted the course this whole podcast. This movie like made an effect on me where I feel like it's just like, in the same way at Cronenberg and we talked about crimes of the future and many other you know whatever
movies were like, this is going to be one of those movies where I'm gonna be fucking thinking about it for a while. There's going to be elements about it where I'm going to be thinking about it.
And how pleasantly surprised I was like walking in pretty blind about what was going to happen and seeing it play out in such a satisfying way where I feel like a lot of my answers were like my questions were answered like what I and like pretty
clearly as it was paced throughout and.
Whenever people wanted to know more. I was rooting for him to, you know, rooting for him but just like pushing it wanting to push one to push him to be like, yeah, dude get the fuck out of there like get get out like what's going on here you eventually find out about the
problem with but makes that decision conscious decision decision to get out and at that moment I'm so terrified in that and that way bringing him back in and it turns into a different movie yet again it like kind of constantly repositions and very effectively great music
performances looking forward to this like young newer director this is like his it's a more effort.
Let me give you the definition of bad as a good.
How could I not be more excited and I already watching Pearl I was just like I need to see whatever me got this kind of in to because she's just fascinating to watch and she was perfectly cast in this so
I mean I won't give it a perfect score I guess because yeah it's not a movie I guess that I'm going to rewatch a bunch and it goes down and like complete like classic territory.
But it definitely has like the excitement of a young director coming up with new ideas with with young with.
Younger performers that are doing some of their best work and it's going to be will be 94.
It's definitely in the 90s it's definitely like it's like a 90 90 something like I was going to say if you gave it lower than a 90 for how you're describing your feelings about this movie I would have been shocked of that.
Yeah I knew you weren't going to give it a perfect score but I was curious where in the 90s it was going to fall and if it fell out of the 90s I was going to be like wow I mean God.
No I really enjoyed it all the way through and I was in it all the way through for two hours and it checked all of all of the boxes and exceeded any expectations that I did have which I was really excited to see it already.
Fuck yeah dude.
Hell yeah.
I mean.
I kind of said it man and we've talked about it plenty on this and people will know that I'm it's not like I'm going to come out of here with a score that's going to really surprise anybody because there are so many things working for this movie like I said.
I mean I don't know if my three things on whether or not I really like a movie it visually throughout all of it was so interesting the twists focuses blurs all like colors everything just thrilling made relatively.
I would say that it was.
That's small but you know what I mean is like it's pretty intimate all things considered so that can be an issue for a lesser director because how do you make people talking.
It's really exciting or interesting and fuck man he did it like you said that I that stuck with me still of the idea of shooting a conversation with people but you're like almost in the kitchen looking down the hallway of people talking.
I'm just so smart and I really love the visuals of it and then my other three things I think I am a huge advocate for a uncomplicated plot that is driven with confidence.
I don't need to know every fucking thing how this person got this thing how this thing got created whatever you clear just confidently and clearly say like this movie did.
We clone people so that people like you can use those clones to get out of.
You know getting executed or getting in trouble you know and that's all you fucking need to know and need to hear and I love that so much for and it's confidence to just stick to what the stories about not get bogged down in the minutia just.
You know chug along in a way that is for two hour movie man this flew by absolutely.
Yeah even like one recently no one will save you or something I was saying would be better as like a shorter Twilight Zone episode.
And if this one didn't like really drive home the latter half half of the movie.
I could be arguing the same thing but somehow you fucking did it you just like the story elements continue to ratchet up.
Continue sorry.
No no no I agree and the third thing is like what is the pros or what is the thesis of this movie and how well how interesting is it and how well does it execute it and that's the third thing so just all in all like what is the voice of this movie or what is it
trying to say and how effective is the movie at saying what it wants to say.
And it doesn't get in.
Again I feel like a broken record but I just love how sparse and how focused and how confident it is that it is going to present.
Classism and the ills of it in a way that I really haven't seen before but makes sense and makes me think about how.
Another way that money and power corrupts people and provides me with an example of how that would manifest in.
In anybody if given the ability to just pay their way out of stuff and it doesn't get into the society of the place that they're at or get into, you know the wealth or the power that they have outside of the resort.
It just clearly shows people that have money that is at their core change them and has created a mentality and a monster out of these people and they take advantage of it because they can because no one is going to stop them because they have money and I.
That's like that yeah you just described the monster in this movie it sounds like.
Absolutely and.
Mission accomplished so.
I think what you said is perfect is like this isn't necessarily a movie that I want to watch often so that it doesn't reach that like.
100% perfect movie where I'm like.
You know.
God I just want to get back into it.
You know yeah I don't want to watch my home drive all the time either but it is really good yeah there's like other.
Not to complete David Lynch but there's there's some elements of it that remind me.
I feel like David Lynch is maybe a little less violent overall but you know.
Not always.
I'm going to give this movie a 95%.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Right there right there with you and this is one that regardless of it is polarizing nature which I think was inevitable just of it's what it's about subject matter and everything.
It's just worth talking about this is a fun one to go through the motions and kind of have a sounding board to go off because yeah I watched it alone and to be able to.
Get you know it's it's kind of decompressing my my brain a little bit from feeling like I had weird dreams last night.
Totally.
I don't remember what they were but I feel like I feel like they were pretty fucking weird.
So that it's it has the that lasting effect which whatever sort of category you got a brilliant horror or whatever it is it's just a fascinating much recommended watch from both of us.
And moving on we want to appreciate say we appreciate you so much for taking these journey on the infinity pool express.
We will now be announcing our next film to be discussing which will be a comedy action from 2016.
About a little kitty cat named Keanu.
Is a certified fresh critically reviewed film sitting at a 78% from these critics.
Not so fresh audience score of a 55.
Very favored comedy movie.
I know so surprising.
Many of those I feel like key and peel.
We'll be talking about it next time.
We hope you have enjoyed your time here on polarized pod.
I know I fucking have.
I fucking love that.
Great time. And if you want to see us do this live on twitch.tv slash polarized part twitch.tv slash polarized part you can see us there when we record them and shoot the shit before and sometimes after you know if you want to hang out and chat and whatnot.
You can send us a line at polarized the pod at gmail.com.
X.com slash polarized part.
Oh, I'm on YouTube if you want to check that out as well polarized pod.
And we appreciate you so much. We have had such a fun, fun time with this podcast. We hope you guys have felt the same way. Is there anything else you'd like to add Brandy.
We'll wrap this little delicious burrito of a podcast up and send it on.
I just I'm going to get into that potato goop from diamonds are forever now.
I'm going to go blow fell myself.
No, everybody listening out there. I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
Yeah.
Hope you enjoyed this up.
Thank you so much and we'll see you next time.
Bye bye.