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This is the reading instruction show on your host as always, Dr.

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Andy Johnson.

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Topic of today's podcast is RTI response to intervention.

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And we are looking at standardized tests, screening devices,

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dysgraphia, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

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But RTI stands for response to intervention.

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As the name indicates,

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the goal is to see how students respond to an intervention and reading,

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math or writing.

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Students response to the intervention determines whether they get additional

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help. Now, to begin with, at the start of it all,

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there's a basic screening of some sort.

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If problems are identified by the basic screening,

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students start in tier one.

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If they don't respond here, they move into tier two.

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But if they do respond, they quit the intervention.

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In other words, if the intervention is successful,

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students should not need the intervention.

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But if they don't respond to tier two, they move into tier three.

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Keep in mind that interventions of any kind are designed to become obsolete.

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Interventions are not meant to be forever kinds of things.

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If your RTI is successful and students have responded to your intervention,

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you should not need the intervention.

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All the RTI stuff should fade away in a perfect world.

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But we know that's not going to happen.

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RTI was not meant to be a set of permanent ability groups

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occurring outside the classroom.

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However, the question is, if students respond to tier two,

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do they go back to tier one, or are they forever fixed?

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And do they leave RTI completely?

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If they respond to tier three, do they go back to tier two,

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or are they forever fixed?

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Well, let's take a look at percentile rankings and screenings.

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In reviewing some schools, RTI plans a standard RTI.

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The RTI plans a standardized reading achievement test is used as a screening

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device for reading.

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Here, students are put in tiers one, two, or three reading intervention groups

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based on their percentile rankings on these standardized tests.

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For example, if you're in the 10th percentile or below, you go to tier three.

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If you're in the 11th to 40th percentile, you go to tier two.

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And if you're in the 41st to 60th percentile, you go to tier one.

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What could be simpler than that?

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But when you live in the world of standardized tests and percentile

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rankings, there is this thing called a normal distribution of scores

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that is beautifully displayed in the bell-shaped curve.

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Here, half the population is reading below average.

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That's called normal, a normal population or a normal distribution of scores.

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But if everyone was reading above average, eventually average would become below average

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and above average would become average and below average would become really below average.

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You get the idea.

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In a normal distribution of scores, half the students in a school should score below average.

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That's called normal.

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Now, that doesn't mean that we don't give each and every student the help they need

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so that they are reading, writing and doing math at their very best.

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And yes, we want all students to read at grade level.

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That's an excellent goal.

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But at the same time, it's an unrealistic goal.

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In a normal distribution of scores, there's always going to be a 10th percentile

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and a 40th percentile and a 60th percentile.

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But the real problem is this.

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If percentile rankings are used to determine tiers, you essentially set up perpetual

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ability groups, some of which must leave the classroom to get extra help.

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And the problem with pull-out services when they're pulled out from the classroom

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is what do you pull them out of?

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What is so unimportant that students can miss three to five times a week?

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And if it's so unimportant, why are you doing it to the rest of the students in the first place?

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All right, let's take a look at some screening devices.

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RTI calls for some sort of screening device to determine if students are responding

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to instruction in a general education classroom.

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Another problem with using standardized tests for a screening device is that they do not

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match classroom instruction, hopefully.

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In other words, good reading instruction in a general education classroom looks very

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much different from the content on a standardized test.

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Also, RTI calls for benchmarks measured three or four times a year to determine if students

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are making adequate progress.

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Benchmarks are the goals teachers set for where they think students should be in terms

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of progress and performance.

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The screening device used for initial assessment is the screening device for

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the screening device used for initial assessment should be somewhat related to the benchmarks

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or goals.

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Now, are you going to give standardized tests three or four times a year?

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Is that what you're saying?

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That's the problem with using standardized tests for screening devices.

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Finally, the screening device should have some semblance to the progress monitoring measures.

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Progress monitoring are the quick, simple assessments measures given every two to four

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weeks to see how well students are responding to the intervention.

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And of course, since progress monitoring measures measure the response to instruction

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taking place, they should be directly related to the instruction taking place.

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Now, even those with an imperfect ability to think would tell you that it makes no sense

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to teach one thing and measure another.

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And I know what you're thinking.

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Okay, Mr. SmartyPants, what would you use for a screening device?

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What would I suggest for a screening device?

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Well, for reading a simple maze page or paragraph.

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Remember, it's a screening device, not a diagnostic.

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Maze can be quickly given in large group.

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You could have two or three maze pages or paragraphs over successive days.

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You could have varying levels.

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The maze is great for word recognition because readers have to use letter clues as well as

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semantic and syntactic clues.

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And readers are also using the context of the page or paragraph to create meaning or to

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comprehend.

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The maze is more like real reading and it's a screening device, not a diagnostic, not

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an achievement test.

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All right.

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What about for writing?

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For writing, RTI, remember, focuses on reading, writing and math.

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For writing, you really can't give a standardized test, can you?

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Although some people have tried really, really hard to do so.

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Yes, I guess you can measure spelling and grammar and punctuation in artificial

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context on a standardized test, but these are not writing.

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There are also computer scored writing assessments where students are given a

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writing prompt and given a time limit to write.

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The set structure and grammar of their written products are then analyzed and scored.

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As well, there are writing tests where students are given a writing prompt and a

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time limit and their writing samples are sent off someplace to be scored by human

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scores using rubrics who score them on structure sentences as well as mechanics.

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But these are all surface level measures to an artificial writing situation.

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So how would you determine if students had trouble writing?

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How would you determine who was and was not a struggling writer by their writing?

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Yes, you would collect writing samples.

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These would be two or three samples of authentic student writing products based

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on their ideas and written using the process that real writers use.

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Pre-write draft, revise, edit, get feedback over time, not in a cram

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20 or 30 minute time limit.

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Real writers, I don't get a time limit when I write.

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Then you'd use some sort of holistic scoring measure like a rating checklist to

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rate students' authentic written products based on a set of criteria.

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But the bigger question here is why?

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Most writing disabilities are really teaching disabilities.

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Everybody can learn to write and everybody can achieve their full writing

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potential if they are taught correctly within a general and setting.

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This means teaching the process of writing, pre-write draft, revision, edit,

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share, repeat as necessary.

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And this usually means less teaching and more writing and responding.

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But this does not mean that there are not places for small,

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temporary, flexible groups to work on specific things.

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But here's one, two, and three for writing.

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I don't think so.

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I don't think so.

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All right.

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Now, let's look at dysgraphia.

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I'm sure you're asking, well, maybe struggling writers have dysgraphia.

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How do you cure dysgraphia?

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For goodness sakes, you give it a fancy name and it becomes a thing.

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You call it a brain disorder and it becomes more of a thing.

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You get for-profit entities selling products and doing workshops and it really becomes a thing.

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But that thing really is a silly thing.

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So let's look at some of the stuff you find on the web.

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Dysgraphia is a learning disability that affects right now.

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Dysgraphia is a learning disability that affects writing abilities.

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It can manifest itself in difficulties such as spelling, poor handwriting,

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and trouble putting thoughts on paper.

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Dysgraphia is a neurological disorder of written expression.

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It impairs right ability in fine motor skills.

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And here's a news alert, by the way.

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Spelling, legibility, word spacing and sizing, and expression are not part of the five-step

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writing process.

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What about the National Center for Learning Disabilities?

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It's a national center.

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They must be experts, right?

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Well, they include symptoms of dysgraphia, including the following.

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Trouble forming letter shapes, tight, awkward, or painful grip on a pencil.

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Difficulty following a line or stain within the margins.

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Trouble with sentence structure or following rules of grammar when writing, but not when speaking.

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Difficulty organizing or articulating thoughts on paper.

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To which I would say to all of this, pish posh.

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Forming letters, holding a pencil, stain within margin, even rules of grammar.

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Well, here's the thing.

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These can all be magically cured by a computer.

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And by the way, difficulty organizing or articulating thoughts on paper.

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That's called a first draft.

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If you would have seen the first draft of this podcast, I would have been diagnosed with dysgraphia.

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Some groups even break dysgraphia into subsections.

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You got your motor dysgraphia and your spatial dysgraphia and your linguistic dysgraphia.

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And the educational systems can say, well, it's not that we don't know how to teach writing.

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They have a brain disorder.

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You see, they got themselves a case of dysgraphia.

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It's their fault.

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It's a medical thing.

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I see a lot of imperfect thinking going on here.

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Is there such a thing as clown dysgraphia?

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What about dyscalcula?

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Well, I'm a literacy guy.

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I swim in my own lane.

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But again, giving something a name does not make that something a name.

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Something more of a something.

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So let's look at RTI emotions and behaviors.

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Once upon a time, RTI was designed to get students who are struggling with reading,

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writing, and math, the immediate help they needed without them being formally identified

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by the special education system.

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The whole point of RTI was to avoid special education services.

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It was never meant to be an extension of special education services.

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As stated in an earlier podcast, RTI was also used as a method to identify students

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for special education services in the area of learning disabilities,

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not EBD, emotional behavioral disorders.

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It was only after students failed to respond to tier three interventions for reading,

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math, or writing that they would be considered for assessment for special education for learning

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disabilities in the areas of reading, math, or writing.

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Learning disabilities, reading, math, or writing, learning, not emotional behavioral

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disorders.

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And again, idea defines a learning disability as an imperfect ability to listen,

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think, speak, read, write, spell, or do mathematical calculations.

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Not included in this list of imperfect abilities is an imperfect ability to

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behave or an imperfect ability to emote.

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A learning disability is not a behaving disability.

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A learning disability is not an emoting disability.

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It's an imperfect ability to learn things.

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In regard to our RTI, it's an imperfect ability to learn to read, write, and do mathematical

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calculations.

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Now, some will say that behaviors get in the way of learning.

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Behaviors are the cause of learning difficulties, they say.

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If those darned students would just behave correctly, then they would learn.

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The problem is with the student.

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The student is defective.

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Therefore, the student must be modified or changed.

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So, we begin to see behaviors or behavioral interventions creeping insidiously into RTI.

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But don't be fooled.

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Once behaviors are included in RTI, it is no longer RTI.

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It's something completely different like multi-tiered systems of support.

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And we'll get to that in the next podcast.

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Now, some RTI plans include PBIS, positive behavioral interventions and supports.

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And some even ABA applied behavioral analysis.

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To be clear, RTI is concerned with reading, writing,

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writing, and math.

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Yes, behaviors sometimes get in the way of learning, but behaviors are a result of multiple causes.

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Behaviors are an effect of something else.

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To try to duct tape over the effect, the behavior, without addressing the cause,

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demonstrates an imperfect ability to think. RTI was designed for learning disabilities,

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not disorders of emotions or behaviors.

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Why are behaviors getting mixed up in the whole RTI thing?

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RTI, well, not perfect, is pretty good.

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But then along came MTSS, multi-tiered systems of support.

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The behaviors just couldn't leave well enough alone, could they?

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But the question is why?