1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,480 This is the Reading Instruction Show. I'm your host as always, Dr. Andy Johnson. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:17,800 The topic of today's podcast or the title is this. Is MTSS merely a PBIS and ABA 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:27,480 delivery system? Now MTSS stands for Multi-Tiered Systems of Support. The claim 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:34,320 is made that this is based on scientific research and uses only evidence-based 5 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:45,680 practices. Now MTSS originated in the world of special education. PBIS stands 6 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:52,560 for Positive Behavioral Intervention and Support. ABA stands for Applied 7 00:00:52,560 --> 00:01:00,320 Behavioral Analysis. The claim that's made is that these are evidence-based and 8 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:11,600 they are used in MTSS. All well and good. So let's take a look at PBIS. We'll look 9 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:19,640 at that first and then ABA. Now there's a center on PBIS. I'm not kidding. They've 10 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:28,520 got a whole center. The center on PBIS describes it as quote an evidence-based 11 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:35,760 three-tiered framework to improve and integrate all of the data systems and 12 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:43,360 practices affecting student outcomes every day. PBIS creates schools where all 13 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:53,640 students succeed. An evidence-based three-tiered framework. My goodness. Who 14 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:59,320 could disagree with that? Who wouldn't want to improve and integrate all of the 15 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,880 data systems and practices? Who wouldn't want to improve student outcomes every 16 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,800 day and who wouldn't want to create a school where all students succeed? I know 17 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:18,240 that I would. Of course, one must always ask succeed at what? What does that look 18 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:24,840 like? What kind of outcomes? Who decided these were the right outcomes? What data 19 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:32,400 and systems? And who makes the choices related to practices? Let's be clear. 20 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:39,360 Student outcomes in special ed world means behaviors. They want to focus on 21 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:49,200 behaviors. PBIS by definition focuses on behaviors. Certain behavior must 22 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:56,320 disappear. Behaviors that interfere, impair, or are said to be maladaptive 23 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:03,880 must be eliminated. When one manifests such behaviors, they are given a label. 24 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:12,040 One is said to have a behavior disorder. The behavior they displayed must be 25 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:19,640 vanished. Never mind the cause or conditions of that behavior. The behavior 26 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:27,720 like a cockroach must be eradicated. Like a bit of cancer, it must be cut out. We 27 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:33,480 have to administer treatment in order to cure the infected subject of that 28 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:41,840 disorder. Now, other behaviors must appear. Those that focus on silence, 29 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:49,280 compliance, and conformity. Now, when I was a child and somebody asked if I was a 30 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:55,960 good boy in church, what they meant was, was I silent, compliant, and did I 31 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:03,280 conform to the church system of expected behaviors? As I got older and grew into 32 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,360 young adulthood, if someone asked if I was a good boy from a church point of 33 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,400 view, they meant was I silent. Nobody wanted to hear what I thought about 34 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,320 things. Just shut up and sing the liturgy. Was I compliant? Did I adopt the 35 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,280 belief system that was given unto me without question? And did my behavior 36 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:29,960 conform to the spoken and unspoken expectations? In church world, this meant 37 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:36,520 no drinking, no squaring, and definitely no sex, quasi-sex, or sex-related 38 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:43,040 activities. In essence, goodness in church world was determined by what I 39 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:50,480 refrained from doing. Now, how is that goodness different from goodness in 40 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:58,080 special ed world? PBIS is all about this goodness. It's designed to make sure 41 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,800 that all the good boys and girls are silent, compliant, and they conform to 42 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:11,880 the system, that the bad behaviors disappear and the good behaviors reappear. 43 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:20,520 Now, in special ed world, that wacky zany place, anxiety, depression, and other 44 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:28,480 mental health conditions are called internalized behavior disorders. These 45 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:38,280 are said to be maladaptive emotions and cognitions. Now, imagine that. I have been 46 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:44,400 dealing with a depressive order for 30 years and all this time it was an 47 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:51,400 internalized behavior disorder. Oh my goodness, instead of the professional 48 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:57,800 help I got, psychotropic medication, and therapy, I should have gone to a local 49 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:04,280 special ed teacher for a little PBIS. What was I thinking? I could have been all 50 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:13,040 fixed up. In special ed world, behaviors are the root cause of all behaviors. Now, 51 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:19,280 can you see the problem with that? It's like saying, hemorrhoids are the cause of 52 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:26,600 all hemorrhoid problems. Eliminate the behaviors or hemorrhoid and eliminate the 53 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:34,920 problem. Hemorrhoids. The emotional behavioral disorder, EBD, label is 54 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:43,080 attached to some kid. Now, here's the thing. EBD, they aren't concerned with the 55 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:51,080 E at all emotions, just the B, the behaviors. Since emotion can't be 56 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:59,120 measured directly, these don't exist. And since environmental conditions can't be 57 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:06,560 controlled, they don't exist either. And since past experiences cannot be 58 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,880 observed directly or measured with a standardized test, we're going to 59 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:18,800 discount these as well. Even though emotions, environmental context, and past 60 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:26,080 experiences might be a significant part of current behaviors, we're just gonna 61 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:34,360 set those inside and use a little PBIS to make all those pesky behaviors go away. 62 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,320 Instead of dealing with the cause of a behavior, we're just gonna put a lot of 63 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,960 duct tape over the effect and collect data showing that the effect has gone 64 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:53,040 away. Evidence-based. There you go. Our data systems and practices are all 65 00:07:53,040 --> 00:08:00,000 integrated and all the unwanted behaviors have gone away. God bless America. 66 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:06,480 But in the meantime, teachers are just trying to help the kid learn to read and 67 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,720 kids are trying to manage their situation with the limited tools that they 68 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:17,920 have. Kids don't want their data and systems to be integrated. They're just 69 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:26,440 trying to be happy to cope to exist. Now to be fair, and I am fair, there are 70 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:34,360 limited places and instances where PBIS is appropriate and effective. It can be 71 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:40,640 helpful in getting students to focus on certain behaviors, but it discounts the 72 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:50,400 fact that all behaviors are the effect of some cause. PBIS should be one of many 73 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:57,040 tools used by a school psychologist or special educator. Now Abraham Maslow 74 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:04,040 once said, if the only tool you have is a hammer, all the world becomes a nail. I 75 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:11,880 once said that if the only tool you have is PBIS, all the world becomes a 76 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:20,480 behavioral objective. Now let's look at ABA or applied behavior analysis. This is 77 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:29,080 another tool that can be effective if used selectively, not exclusively. It is 78 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:36,120 appropriate in some limited instances. ABA is based on the principles of 79 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:42,760 behavior modification. Behavior modification originates with the work of 80 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:49,600 B.F. Skinnerd who studied rats in a Skinner box. In essence, the research 81 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:56,560 used on one species, rats, is applied to another species, humans, and called 82 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:03,960 evidence-based. So let's see what's said about ABA in special ed world. 83 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:10,360 Applied behavior analysis is the practice of applying the psychological 84 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:16,880 principles of a learning theory in a systematic way to modify behavior. This 85 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:22,840 practice is used most extensively in special education and the treatment of 86 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:31,160 autism spectrum disorder. Treatment, interesting word. ABA is widely recognized 87 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:38,280 as the only scientifically valid therapy available for treating behavioral 88 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:45,120 issues associated with AST. By the way, the funny voice was mine. And I say, oh 89 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:51,960 really? Perhaps we should ask adults who are neurodiverse or neural atypical or 90 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:59,280 autistic if they appreciated having their behaviors treated. Let's collect that 91 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:07,280 evidence. Let's see if they appreciated or wanted people trying to fix them so 92 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:14,440 their behaviors were quote normal, unquote. Let's ask them if their treatment was 93 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:21,520 successful. Were they cured of ASD? Did their neurodiversity go away? Let's 94 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:27,320 collect that evidence, shall we? Now the Centers for Disease Control and 95 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:33,480 Prevention, interesting enough, they weigh in on ABA. That should be our first 96 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:40,240 clue when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are weighing in on ABA. 97 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:47,600 According to them, ABA is a method of studying and managing behavior to bring 98 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:53,680 about change. ABA therapists develop research-based, of course it's research 99 00:11:53,680 --> 00:12:01,040 based, behavioral intervention plans to reduce problem behaviors in children. That 100 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:08,240 term research-based gets bandied about as if that justifies everything they do. 101 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:14,960 All right, let me continue. ABA is also known as behavior modification and 102 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:23,400 learning theory. Behavior modification, BF Skinner, Thorndike. Hello. As children 103 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:29,200 with learning disabilities may also have behavior problems or disorders such as 104 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:35,120 attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, which can cause them to be 105 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:40,000 disruptive at school, at home, or in their interactions with friends and 106 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:47,040 peers. All right, you've got a learning disability and they want to address 107 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:55,400 behavior problems. What? And of course, if you're failing all day, if instruction 108 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:02,560 has been ineffective, if you are made to feel like a failure in school, of course 109 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:09,200 you're going to act out. Sometimes negative behaviors are a positive 110 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:15,360 response to a negative situation and kids made to be feel like their failures 111 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:21,400 sent off someplace to special ed world, of course they're going to react. That is 112 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:29,600 a positive reaction to a negative situation. Now the idea behind ABA is 113 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:36,920 that reinforcing certain behaviors will lead kids to repeat those behaviors and 114 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:43,040 diminish other behaviors. Now this certainly makes sense. If I were 115 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:52,040 training a dog, I'm certainly that I would be all over ABA. And there are 116 00:13:52,040 --> 00:14:00,000 places in education where ABA ideas might be useful. I used forms of ABA 117 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:06,560 with one or two students each year in a very limited way on a limited basis 118 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:13,680 when I was teaching second grade way back in 1983. It was effective in helping 119 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:20,120 students focus on behaviors but these techniques were always applied in the 120 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,880 context of a relationship with this student. I understood the student. I was 121 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,320 able to interact with the student on a daily basis and I was able to focus on 122 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:38,760 teaching that student the desired behavior. Teaching not reinforcing. I 123 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:46,400 understood the whole student and the environmental situations in which the 124 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:54,040 behavior arose. And in each case when I used ABA in the classroom I was able to 125 00:14:54,040 --> 00:15:01,880 discontinue using it after two or three weeks. Now with ABA punishment or a 126 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,000 versive conditioners are said not to be used although they sometimes are 127 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,840 especially in institutional settings. Instead positive reinforcement or 128 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:19,880 rewarding and teaching replacement behaviors is said to bring about a more 129 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:28,560 long-lasting change. But here's the thing. B.F. Skinner and Edward Lee 130 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:35,000 Thorndike found out long ago when the reward or threat of punishment disappears 131 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:43,520 the behavior gradually reappears. Now let's take a look at MTSS 132 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:51,080 multi-tiered systems of supports. Why have I spent so much time blabbering on 133 00:15:51,080 --> 00:16:02,480 about PBIS and ABA when the focus is on MTSS? This is why. Look at any MTSS plan 134 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:12,320 and you will see it is infested with PBIS and ABA. MTSS is said to focus on 135 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:20,400 academic support for reading, writing, and math. But you will see that each of 136 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:28,320 these is woefully inadequate. Again there are places where it may be 137 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:35,680 appropriate to use PBIS and ABA. In other words I'm sure there's evidence to 138 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:41,280 indicate that in certain situations for certain students these may be effective 139 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:47,680 for certain things. But this certainly does not mean that they are evidence 140 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:53,600 based for everything. And this does not mean that they should be the main tool. 141 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:59,720 And that's what's happening in special ed world and leaking into the real world 142 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:08,040 with MTSS. This is what I see occurring in MTSS, the multi-tiered system of 143 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:18,560 supports. PBIS and ABA are used to fix problem behaviors. It's like a dystopian 144 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:24,960 society, the one described by George Orwell in his book 1984. It's being 145 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:32,360 brought into the school systems. Big Brother is watching. Happy talk. There 146 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:39,840 are limited places where PBIS and ABA might be an effective tool. But if they 147 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:46,000 are the only tools in your educational toolbox, you're like a carpenter with 148 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:53,160 just a hammer and a nail. Again if the only tool you have is a hammer, all the 149 00:17:53,160 --> 00:18:00,440 world becomes a nail. If the only tool you have is PBIS and ABA, all the world 150 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:07,280 becomes a behavioral objective. Now let's take a look at MTSS and SEL. Oh gosh, I 151 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:13,480 love these letters. SEL stands for social emotional learning and this is said 152 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:20,120 to be a part of MTSS. Teaching social skills is a good thing. Everyone agrees 153 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:26,720 with that. And what about learning about one's emotions? That's a good thing. I 154 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:33,720 strongly encourage both of these. Another term for this would be interpersonal 155 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:41,600 and intrapersonal intelligence. Absolutely, we need to teach and develop 156 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:48,400 these. Both of these can help students become better human beings, happier 157 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,360 human beings, and more successful in all social and interpersonal situations. Both 158 00:18:55,360 --> 00:19:01,960 of these enable humans to function better in relationships and in society. 159 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:08,760 I'm absolutely all for social and emotional learning if it's put in the 160 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:15,840 context of being a better human being. But this is not the focus of social 161 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:23,720 emotional learning in MTSS. The focus here is on specific skills or behaviors 162 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:32,280 that support attendance, behavior, and course performance. In other words, 163 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:39,440 behaviors that enable you to perform or the student to perform school-related 164 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:47,760 circus tricks. And this is the insidious nature of MTSS and special ed world. 165 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:55,680 When you get behind the mirage of words, all you see is a giant skinner box with 166 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:06,880 flashing lights, pellets, and electrical grid. Now, let's take a look at MTSS and 167 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:14,720 the mirage of words. It's really hard to get into the specifics of MTSS because 168 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:22,480 it's all words. The descriptors of MTSS are littered with words. The websites, 169 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:29,760 books, and articles spew forth an excess of wonderful, glorious words such as 170 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:36,880 equity, evidence-based, whole-child, community engagement, integrated 171 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,040 educational focus, transformational process, specialized support, inclusion, 172 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:51,840 paradigm shift, setting higher expectations, redesign of integrated 173 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:59,120 services, CCSS aligned instruction, addressing the needs of all students, 174 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:07,200 problems solving, processes, collaborative and team-based decision-making, data 175 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:15,120 evaluation, building relationships, capacity building infrastructure, 176 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:21,960 universal design for learning, professional development, active 177 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:28,160 involvement, integrated continuum of research-based practice. Oh, what 178 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:36,800 wonderful words. These are all delightful, inspirational, aspirational words. Who 179 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:43,360 wouldn't want a redesign of integrated services? Who wouldn't want their paradigm 180 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:51,560 shifted? And who wouldn't want their processes to be transformational? But 181 00:21:51,560 --> 00:22:01,640 these are all words designed to messy up the water. Words. When you try to look 182 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:12,280 beyond the words, MTSS seems to be little more than an ABA and PBIS delivery 183 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:18,080 device. This has been the Reading Instruction Show. I'm your host, Dr. Andy 184 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:24,200 Johnson.