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This is the reading instruction show. I'm her host as always Dr. Andy Johnson. This is a

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re-recording of a podcast I did yesterday. It's kind of a softening of a podcast

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But it's all related to an article written by Jessica Winter

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published in the New Yorker magazine on September 1st called The Rise and Fall of Vibes based literacy.

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Now Jessica Winter is an editor at the New Yorker, but she also writes about family and education.

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And I was sent a copy of her article The Rise and Fall of Vibes based literacy and asked to respond.

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And as I started reading I realized that she had no idea of what she was talking about.

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And the article represented it was a perfect representation and analogy of some of the stuff

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we've seen in the larger science of movement over the past couple years, the science of reading

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movement over the past couple years. Jessica Winter's knowledge base related to literacy

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instruction was shallow and disjointed at best like many of the advocates in the science of reading movement.

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Yet Jessica Winter used her platform with the New Yorker to accuse teachers of using

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vibes based literacy and that's not a flattering term.

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Jessica Winter has 13 pages in the New Yorker. The New Yorker has a circulation of over a million

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readers. She can smear and demean on a very large platform to our hearts content.

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Me, I've got 20 minutes on a podcast with a few thousand listeners on a good day.

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So how is my voice going to get through? How's the voice of some of the others meaning based literacy experts?

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Now in some of my podcasts I get a bit pointed. Yes. And some have said that I rant.

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Sadly this is the way I kind of talk in my real life. And I admit I use terms like clowns and

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penguins and number monkeys and leeches and bloodsuckers to call attention to the argument.

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They also become a visual metaphor. Use the whole of the idea. So should I not use these terms?

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I don't know. Do I cross over the line sometimes? Absolutely. Should I restrain myself a bit?

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Most indubitably. Should I be less sarcastic? I'm not sure. I'm going to think about it.

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But sometimes sarcasm goes where reason and research can't. Should I be more polite, full

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and respectful in my podcast? And I sincerely wish I could on an individual letter you a level

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you will always find me to be polite and respectful. But the question is, should I be more gentle with

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my podcast? Well, here's the thing. I and others have tried to use reason and research to no avail.

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Our methods continues to be ignored and demeaned by the people who are in the process of being

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our methods continues to be ignored and demeaned by those in power. Do you realize how many polite,

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reasonable, research-based arguments, YouTube's, podcasts, books, articles, blogs that I and others

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have produced? Yet we keep getting smeared, misquoted and silenced by those with larger

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platforms. Those in our movement, our literacy experts have had to endure attacks and smears for

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years. You should have heard what they said about us at the state legislator, Slater, here in Minnesota.

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The self-righteous smears that these state legislators said. And I had to sit back and say

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nothing because I had not a platform. We in the literacy community feel like we've had to take it

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as people like Emily Hanford and Jessica Winter smear us with their mischaracterizations.

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They mischaracterize, cartoonize what we do. They've abused and misused their platforms.

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We've had to endure very personal attacks, name-calling and the self-righteous indignation

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of people who know nothing of literacy instruction. So what should we say? Thank you. Please insult

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me some more. I really love it. Should we continue to sit back and say nothing? Now, I'm sure the

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intentions of Jessica and Winter, Jessica Winter and Emily Hanford are good, but intention does

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not negate impact. Neither does it absolve one from taking the responsibility of garnering a bit

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of knowledge, taking responsibility from the impact of what you're doing. Intention is not a free ride

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to ignorance and unknowing. What Emily Hanford and Jessica Winter are doing is severely hurting

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real students, real teachers and real schools. What the International Dyslexia Association

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letters and the educational industrial complex is doing is damaging to public education and

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ultimately our society. This is not an abstraction. Now, there are plenty of people out there pushing

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back in a very nice, polite way and they should continue to do that. But I will do anything I

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can to stop the flood of misinformation and the abuse of teachers and children that's perpetuated

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by articles like the one that Jessica Winter wrote and like all the stuff that Emily Hanford does.

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As a paid public employee and I work at a public university, it's my obligation to speak out for

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the public good. Now, do you think people would be more apt to listen to my podcasts if I were just

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nice and polite? I don't know. But if you think so, I'm happy to change the tone. But in this

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podcast and the ones that follow, I'm going to go line by line to point out all of Jessica Winter's

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heirs and myths, mistruths. And I'll do it in a way that calls attention to it. But with this one,

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it's kind of a redo of what I did yesterday. I'm going to be a little bit more polite.

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So, Jessica Winter opens up her article, Vibes-Based Literacy Instruction, by describing an incident

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that occurred at her home during COVID as part of reading instruction. Now, keep in mind that during

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COVID, teachers were all learning on the fly how to adapt what they do in the classroom with online

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home instruction. Now, Jessica Winter was working with her daughter who was in kindergarten and she

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read reading workshop on her child's schedule. And based on what she perceived as her child's

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failure is during this artificial time of teaching and she wasn't accurate in her perceptions. But

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she came to a conclusion based on a sample size of one that she understood what reading workshop was

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and that it was a failure for her daughter. And she concluded that it must be a failure

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for everybody. Now, could you imagine any researcher coming to conclusions based on a

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sample size of one? You can't generalize to larger numbers based on a sample size of one.

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Yes, I understand personal experiences make connections and are often used as an impetus

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to investigate more deeply. Sadly, I wish Jessica Winter would have done this, but she didn't.

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And it's obvious she calls it vibes based literacy. It's obvious Jessica Winter knows nothing about

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reading workshop. She demeans it by calling it vibes based literacy. So let's talk about what

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reading workshop is. The first thing to know is that Jessica Winter's portrayal of it is cartoonish

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in inaccurate. Reading workshop is not a method with step by step procedures that must be followed

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with fidelity like a recipe. Instead, it's an approach to reading instruction based on research

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and research based theory related to how humans best learn and how humans learn literacy.

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Reading workshop is not standardized. In a reading workshop, what you would see would be based on the

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teacher, the students, the age, the level and what works with one class doesn't always work with

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another. Thus, in each teacher's classroom, you might see different things. Now, later in her

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article, Jessica Winter went on to mischaracterize balanced literacy and other things. But reading

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workshop is structured. It's planned. There's very direct and explicit instruction based on

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individual students needs. And it has a strong research base using real reading science based

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on human beings based on how they best learn. And in reading workshop, during a 40 to 90 minute

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session, you might see some or all of the following. You would see independent reading.

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Absolutely. That's the heart of reading workshop, but it is not reading workshop.

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Here, students are selecting books. This is an important part, but only one part.

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And if you want to get better at any skill, playing piano, playing shortstop, dancing,

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you need to practice that skill. This means that classrooms need lots of books in them,

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lots and lots of good books. So at different levels. So students can find books at their

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independent level or below to read and enjoy. The second thing you might find is a literacy log

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or a journal of some kind. This is where students respond to some aspect of what they've read.

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Usually the teacher puts a prompt on the board before reading so that students can think about

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their prompt as they're reading. The prompt could be something like describe an interesting character,

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tell us where the story took place, identify two interesting or important events, record an

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interesting or important word, tell us what you think it means, find and record words with a long

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A sound. Those are the kinds of prompts to think about what you've read or to reinforce a skill

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of some sort. The third thing is whole class mini lessons. Mini lessons are lessons that are short.

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Anywhere from two to 15 minutes, they use very direct and very explicit instruction to teach

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phonics, letter sounds, among other things. And it's recommended by the national reading panel

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a variety of types of phonics instruction are included here. Synthetic phonics, analytic phonics,

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embedded phonics, large unit phonics, phonics by spelling. The national reading panel says

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all of these have equal effect. You should use all of them. There'd also be mini lessons related

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to comprehension skills, word identification skills, vocabulary, maybe even grammar.

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These skills would be based on a could be based on a suggested scope and sequence that you might

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find in a basal or a set of standards. But they would also be based in part on what the teacher

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sees, what he or she sees the students as needed. The fourth thing there would be targeted mini

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lessons. Yes, there are whole class, but targeted mini lessons would be small, flexible group mini

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lessons. As the teacher sees students struggling with the skill, they might be called up to the

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front table to work on targeted skills related to letter sounds or patterns, vocabulary,

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fluency, comprehension. In the same way, more advanced readers who need more advanced skills

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might also be called up for small flexible groupings. These are flexible, meaning that the

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students and number of students change according to what skills they need. There would be one,

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two, three, four, the fifth thing, conferences. There are several kinds of conferences, but this

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is where the teacher talks to the reader, listens to the reader, sees what they're reading, listens

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to them read, sets goals for the types of books to read. And as the teacher listens to the child

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read, notes are taken to see how they're doing, what skills they need. There are different types

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of conferences. There's also small group conferences, drive by conferences, student, student conferences,

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individual small group conferences. And as these are taking place, the teacher is noting

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recording what they see and hear. And also the last one, there is students talking. Structured

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conversations are important for language development, vocabulary, read, fluency, comprehension.

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Structured conversations around books. These take place in the whole class, small groups, or in pairs.

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These. So, Jessica, did you see all these things? Or did you see a cartoonist version? You realize

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that this doesn't transfer well in an online environment. But if you think reading is just

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sounding out words and reading class should be just a bunch of sounding out word instruction,

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you're not going to understand what you see going on in reading workshop. And just because you don't

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understand the thing doesn't mean the thing is not effective. But here is the thing. During COVID,

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all teachers were adapting on the fly. They were trying to make their classes relevant

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in this new medium. However, it would be very hard for anyone to transfer the essence of reading

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workshop to an online environment. So, if you're going to write and speak and create radio documentaries

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about reading instruction, I would hope at the very least you would know and understand about the

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10 pillars of reading instruction. 10 essential elements that a comprehensive reading program

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or literacy program should have. And reading workshop contains these 10 pillars. And I'm going

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to go through each one. Phonemic awareness. Manipulating sounds within words and putting sounds

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together to create words. That's usually found at the pre-K and early grade one. Phonemic

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awareness activities discontinued when students are reading comfortably at the first grade level.

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Second, phonics instruction and word work. Yes, instruction related to letter sounds and patterns.

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Three, activities and instruction to develop all three neurocognitive systems used for word

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recognition. I'll talk about this more in just a minute, but we use more than letters to recognize

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words. As we read, because letters are found within words, words are found within sentences,

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sentences are found within context, we need to use more than letters. Number four, activities and

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instruction for word identification strategies. If you don't immediately recognize a word when

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you're reading, you need to consciously employ some strategy to figure it out. And there are four

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strategies, phonics, context, morphemic analysis and analogy. The fifth part of a comprehensive

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reading program is daily reading practice. Students need to be, skills need to be practiced in

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authentic reading context if they are to transfer. We teach skills in reading, not so they can be

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good in reading class, but so they can use these skills in authentic reading and writing context.

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The sixth one, social interaction and conversation around good books. As stated earlier, oral language

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enhances the development of language skills, vocabulary and comprehension. It keeps students

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engaged and makes them more motivated to want to read and talk about what they're reading.

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Authentic writing experiences number seven, these are activities in which students describe their

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ideas and their experiences. It reinforces letter sound patterns, but also writing is the best way

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to develop the syntactic acuying system. Number eight, comprehension instruction. Instruction

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related to the cognitive operations associated with comprehension, like inferring, predicting,

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summarizing, story grammar. Comprehension also involves study skill strategies related to reading

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information or expository text. Number nine, vocabulary activities to develop word knowledge.

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Now, we don't teach words as much as we develop the conditions that enable students to increase

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and enhance their vocabulary. Students learn between three and five thousand words a year,

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depending on the study. And teachers need to create activities to add depth and dimension to words,

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as well as to get new words into students vocabulary. And number 10, attention to affect.

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That would be motivation and emotions, which is at the heart of everything we do. We read and

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emote with the same brain. So when we need to attend to the emotional element involved in reading,

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as well as desire and motivation, a teacher's number one job is to help students fall in love

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with books. The number two job is not to frustrate or humiliate students. Now, the last thing I want

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to say today, Jessica Winter in her article, and I just got through the first two pages,

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says some very inaccurate things. Now, in my first podcast, which was a little bit insensitive,

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yes, yes, I call them clown things or clowny things. And that maybe was a little much. So I'm

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going to soften that a bit and instead call them ignorant things. Ignorant means without knowledge,

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because that is in truth what they are. What else can I say? How else can I soften that term?

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They are ignorant things. So here's ignorant thing at number one that Jessica Winter wrote in her

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article. She says, I quote, they figure out words based on a queuing strategy. The reader asks herself

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if the word looks right, sounds right, and makes sense in context. That's what she said. Now,

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in my first podcast, I use kind of a sarcastic voice. I said, they figure out words based on a,

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and maybe I shouldn't do that. I admit that was probably a little much, but it's kind of fun for

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me. I like doing that. But that is an ignorant thing to say, Jessica. I'm sorry. I don't know

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what else to say. The queuing system is not a strategy, Jessica. It's not a skill. It's a

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recognition that our brain uses three interacting systems to recognize words during the act of

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reading. Yes, we use phonetic information, but also semantic information and syntactic information

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to recognize words and create meaning. And good readers are not sounding out words. They are

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creating meaning. And when we are creating meaning, instead of barking at print, we see letters in the

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context of words. We see words in the context of sentences. And we see sentences in the context of

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some context. And we use context or semantic information, as well as syntax or grammar and word

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order, along with letter clues to recognize words. Recognizing words and reading means you perceive

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it and you automatically know what it is. You recognize it. Ah, I recognize you. And part of

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this, the last part of it, she says, to see if the word looks right, sounds right, and makes sense.

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And this isn't quite accurate, but the idea to see if it makes sense. And she somehow demeans

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that if that's a bad thing. No matter what approach we're using, we want students to do this. It's

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called metacognition. We want students to pause to see if what they're reading makes sense, Jessica.

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Jessica, you should understand that. All right. Ignorant three thing number two. And again, I'm

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sorry, Jessica, but you should know better. And if you don't matter, know better, you should contact

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a real literacy expert. But she says, my daughter was taught to use picture power, guess words

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based on accompanying illustrations. And her daughter is in kindergarten. But yes, Jessica, this is

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developmentally appropriate for kindergarten students to do this sort of thing. Reading literacy

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is a developing skill. This helps develop what's called again, metacognition, thinking about,

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thinking, pausing to see if you understand what you're reading. If what you're reading makes

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sense within the context of the sentence, young readers should consider the picture as well.

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But to guess at words, that term guess is a buzzword pulled out of context. Asking if it makes sense

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is not guessing. Okay, here's ignorant thing a thing number three. She says, quote, she memorized

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high frequencies, sight words, using a stack of laminated flashcards, and the who, etc. And again,

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yes, they're called sight words. There are Xeno sight words, dull sight words, fry most

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frequent words, sight words, these are the most frequent words that students encounter, like in

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the of or we want students to be able to recognize these words automatically

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to reduce the need for processing here for sounding to, you know, our short term memory

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can hold only about seven things for about 15 seconds. We don't want them to have to process

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the individual letters. So to reduce the processing, there are about anywhere from 100 to Xeno has

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to 20 sight words that students shouldn't recognize by sight, you shouldn't have to sound them out.

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And you don't memorize them per se, you learn to recognize them and flashcards are very appropriate,

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just like you use for your number facts in first and second grade. And leaving kindergarten,

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you should know anywhere from 25 to 50 sight words again, depending on the study. This is not the

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same as the look say approach of the sixties. And I don't know of anyone who advocates the look say

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approach today. I don't know you're using these buzz terms pulled out of context.

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So in our next podcast, a little preview, Jessica Winter seems also not to know the difference between

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units of study, balanced literacy and reading workshop. I hope to disambiguate these. I hope to

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to point out the differences between these things. This has been the Reading Instruction Show. I'm

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your host, Dr. Andy Johnson.