1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,200 the computer. Okay, I should be recording. This is the Reading 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,200 Instruction Show. I'm your host, Dr. Andy Johnson, and we have a 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:15,000 very special guest with us again, Anna Hammett. Anna, who are 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,560 you? What is your background? 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:23,200 Well, my background, this is kind of a tough one. I don't have a 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,880 traditional teacher background, I would say I'm not someone that 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,800 came out of undergraduate started teaching right away and 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,000 have been teaching for the last 30 years. So I did I went to 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,400 St. Cloud State, graduated in 98. Did not at all care for my 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,360 student teaching experience. It did not feel like a good fit at 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,960 all. And moved around a little bit after that I was they did 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,320 encourage me to apply for a position there. And I didn't 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,320 even apply for it because I thought I am not cut out for 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,080 this. So I ended up moving to Iowa, not long after that I did 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,520 do some subbing and some long term subbing and the subbing 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,120 actually I enjoyed quite a bit but I thought it was just the 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,240 temporary nature of the thing and I felt a little freer as a sub. 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,800 And it didn't realize it was my student teaching experience not 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,000 teaching itself that had kind of soured me on the whole thing. 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,720 But I ended up, go ahead. 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,840 What's your current situation? Where are you currently? 22 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,360 Oh, my current situation. So I live in Northern Minnesota. I 23 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,640 ended up going back and being a high I was a high school English 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,560 teacher. And and right now I'm an MTSS academic and curriculum 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,160 specialist in Northern Minnesota. And this is my second year 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,880 will be my second year of doing that position. 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,760 You mentioned there was a shortage in teaching a high 28 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,760 turnover. What do you think was the cause of that? 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,840 I think it's several things. I think that we were headed, we 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,040 were headed this way before COVID. And I think COVID sort of 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,880 accelerated a lot of things teaching during COVID was very 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,200 difficult. Things changed very quickly in education. Normally 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,920 things do not change that quickly. And then all of a 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,080 sudden we went from, you know, teaching all in person to 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,880 teaching some in person, some that were home every other week 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,200 and some that were at home all the time. And then trying to 37 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,120 figure out how to make all of that work. And then for our area 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,120 to try to figure out how to make all of that work went about 30% 39 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,400 of our students do not have internet access, reliable 40 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,240 internet access, or devices to get online. But yet they're 41 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,560 expected to be learning online. And so that was all very 42 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:37,960 difficult. And then coming out of COVID. Our students, I think 43 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,160 they just what I'm noticing is a little bit of immaturity. 44 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,800 Definitely. So we talk about the learning loss all the time. And 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,280 I was like, you know, gearing up for when we came out of 46 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,160 COVID that I was going to have students that were academically 47 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,720 two years behind. And really academically, my high school 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,120 students, they were okay, you know, they weren't academically 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,840 two years behind, but I would say they were socially emotionally 50 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,600 two years behind. And they had lost a lot of their ability to 51 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,320 self regulate, and to deal with conflict. And so that was, you 52 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,400 know, I needed to shift gears pretty quickly to fit, you know, 53 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,720 okay, we need to like, spend some time figuring out how we're 54 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,920 going to work together as a community of learners. And then I 55 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:27,800 think too, there was a lot of conflict in society, and somehow 56 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,040 education got kind of plunked in the middle of this culture war, 57 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,560 having to do with masking and vaccines and everything else. And 58 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,000 that has continued. And so then I think that has also sort of 59 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,560 exacerbated the teacher shortage, because it's difficult. It's a 60 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,280 difficult job. I mean, it's a wonderful job, I love it. But 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,560 it's a difficult job to start with. And then when you add, you 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,920 know, that kind of conflict and scrutiny and, you know, misinformation. 63 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,160 It's difficult. 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,360 People don't realize how hard work teaching is what hard work 65 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,760 is. In your observation, why are some of our good teachers 66 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:08,960 leaving the classroom? 67 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:16,440 Stress, I think it's largely stress and a lack of support. Things 68 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,160 get added to our plates constantly, you know, like just, 69 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,440 you know, every time there's a mandate, there's paperwork that 70 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,400 goes along with a mandate, right? So we have more things to do 71 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,520 there. We have more students added to our classrooms all the 72 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,920 time. So when I first started teaching, you know, it typically 73 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,760 have a class size of 25. My class size is now when I was still 74 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,320 in the classroom would be 38, sometimes 40 seniors in a room. 75 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:45,080 Oh, my goodness. 76 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,960 Yeah, yeah. And it was not uncommon to have quite a few of 77 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,320 them. That as I call them, we're fragile learners that needed a 78 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,720 little bit more of my time, focus, energy and help. So I just 79 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,600 remember one, one class of ninth graders I had, I had 38 80 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,920 students in there. Two of them were needed one on one pairs. 81 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,320 That's what was in their IEP. So I had two pairs in there. And 82 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:19,080 I had an additional 11 students that were on IEPs for a variety 83 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,000 of reasons. I tended to have a lot of students that needed 84 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,200 support with the you know, emotional behavior kinds of 85 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440 things. And that's that that's my jam. That's fine. You know, I 86 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,160 love those kids, you know what I mean? But that was that was a 87 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,200 lot, especially with ninth grade, because they're really 88 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,080 still figuring things out. And the solution was that to put 89 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,560 another adult in my room. So my little classroom, you know, I 90 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,000 had 38 students and four adults, I just really felt like the 91 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,600 ringmaster of a circus at that point, you know, and I, we had 92 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,960 to have a severe weather drill. And for my classroom, we had to 93 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,920 go next door into the resource room. Like we're not even going 94 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,680 to sit in here for a severe weather drill. So it's that kind 95 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,800 of stuff where I think, because I'm older, I've been at this for 96 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,440 a little while, it's a little bit easier to take it in stride. 97 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,600 But I think it's a lot tougher for those teachers that are in 98 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,280 their first three to five years. If that was my introduction to 99 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:18,960 teaching, I don't know that I would have stuck with it, you 100 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:19,360 know, 101 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,720 38 kids and four adults in a classroom. 102 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,280 Yes. It was a lot, like I said, it felt like the ringmaster of a 103 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:30,560 circus for sure. Oh my goodness. Well, what is your 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,440 experience you enjoy in teaching? 105 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Oh, the students and families, you know, I always, yeah, I just 106 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,560 I feel like, because I left teaching for a while, and then 107 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,360 kind of how I got back into it, I was coaching speech team. 108 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,800 Okay, I realized that I, I had something I could help these 109 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,720 students, you know, that I had something to offer. And so my 110 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,640 first year, I still wasn't sure that I was going to be a teacher. 111 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:03,880 Yep. And I thought, well, if I can say that at least one kid in 112 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,800 here had a something good happened, because I was the 113 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,600 teacher in this classroom, I'll stick with it. And I had that. 114 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,840 And so every year, I kind of think, do I, is it still me being 115 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,320 in this classroom that is helping these students, you 116 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,960 know? And I think I have a different perspective than a 117 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,480 lot of other teachers. And so I think that that helps as well. 118 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,760 But I do, I enjoy my students, they're goofy, and they're 119 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,080 fun. I just, yeah, I enjoy teaching, you know, if I if all 120 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,680 I had to do was just teach students, you know, all day, that 121 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,760 it would just be a dream job, really. 122 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Isn't that amazing? Teach and be left alone? What's up? 123 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,200 What is it that gets in your way then of teaching? What gets in 124 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,320 the way of your being able to do what you want to do, like teach 125 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:54,040 students? 126 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Well, you know, there's a lot of different state mandates, you 127 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:05,800 know, things like that, that it gets to be a challenge. There's 128 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,240 time that gets spent on learning about this, that or the other 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,920 thing that we need to be doing. There's different admin, and I've 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,040 had great admin, so I don't want to criticize administrators, 131 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,600 but, you know, they'll have an issue with a group of students. 132 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,520 And so they think, well, we need to crack down on all students. 133 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,160 And I don't need my students crack down on. And I, you know, you 134 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:35,200 know, that kind of thing, I need to be able to, if I have a 135 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,360 student that's going to the bathroom every day, it's not 136 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,920 necessarily because they're being naughty in the bathroom, 137 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,880 sometimes they need a break, right? Sometimes they just need 138 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,480 to get away from the 37 other students in the classroom for a 139 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,200 few minutes, you know, like that kind of thing. So that gets in 140 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,080 the way a little bit. And like, so just the time, you know, every 141 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,080 time we have something else that we have to do. So now we have 142 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,680 like the read act, we have that education bill, which is, you 143 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,920 know, more money is great for education, because obviously I 144 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,920 wouldn't have 38 students in my classroom if there is more money 145 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,080 for teachers. But unfortunately, you know, if there's not more 146 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,520 money for teachers, then it's just more money collecting 147 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,160 information about our students is sometimes what it boils down to. 148 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,120 And how do they collect information about our students? Well, 149 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,560 that's information that I provide. You know, when do I have 150 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:28,080 time to provide that information and plan my lessons and, you 151 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,440 know, meet with my students that need extra help, you know, and 152 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,200 contact families to talk about what's going on, you know, what 153 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,240 goals and needs do they have for their students that are in my 154 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,280 classroom, like that kind of thing. So there's only so many 155 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,160 hours in the day. 156 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,560 If cracking down on students worked, we'd have classes called 157 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:48,120 cracking down on students. 158 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,480 I know it's and that's where and I think we still struggle with 159 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,240 this a little bit, but I know it was absolutely an issue. Well, 160 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,200 I consider it an issue this belief that classroom discipline 161 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,000 is a system of control when it is absolutely that did not work 162 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,120 for me. I can't be that person. It's ridiculous. There's no way I 163 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,080 can control the behaviors, or the attention or the focus of all 164 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,640 the students my classroom sense. Sometimes they can't even 165 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,080 control their own behaviors because the coping skills that 166 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,160 they've learned or the coping mechanisms they've learned 167 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:21,280 aren't serving them. 168 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,000 And so, yeah, the system of control to me is ridiculous. And 169 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,000 so that that belief or that you know, you have to crack down on 170 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000 them or and I still hear that, you know, when I have when I've 171 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,720 had student teachers or practicum students in my classroom, I 172 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,360 like, well, I know I have to start out strict, so but I can 173 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,920 lighten up later on. And that's just no, and I know they're 174 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,120 still getting that message. And that's not what it's about. 175 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,360 Because you're not rolling your students. 176 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:51,840 There's chaos on one end of a continuum and control the other. 177 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,320 And there's a structure in between. Yeah, that structure 178 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,080 goes back and forth depending on the students. But management, 179 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,760 as you have said, a big part of this helping them manage their 180 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:02,680 own behavior. 181 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:05,680 Yeah, it's their emotions. 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,640 Yes. And that's what they need. They need help finding coping 183 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,360 mechanisms that work. Your kid that has his head down and says 184 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,480 hoodie pulled up, telling you to f off in the back of the 185 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,200 classroom, that's a coping mechanism that he has learned 186 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,640 that has served him or he wouldn't still be doing it. And so 187 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,760 it's your job. It's not your job to control that student. 188 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,840 No, it's your job to help that student learn different 189 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,360 different coping mechanisms that is going to help him in his 190 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,800 life. And so that student is that going to accomplish? 191 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:42,200 Yeah. No, and excluding that student from my classroom also 192 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:47,440 is not going to help me teach that student, you know, and 193 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,360 demanding compliance from that student is not going to help me. 194 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,040 Demanding compliance from any student is not going to help me 195 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,680 teach that student. And so that was and that was a hard one. I 196 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:59,800 didn't feel like I had a lot of models of how that could work. 197 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,000 Like what what does that look like if you're not trying to 198 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,280 control your students? And so yeah, so I try to you know, when I 199 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,240 do have practicum students or student teachers, you know, what 200 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,680 you're in your, your it's not what you're in control of, it's 201 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,360 what your responsibility is. And it's your responsibility to 202 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,360 provide a safe learning environment. It's your 203 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,800 responsibility to create a learning community in your 204 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,640 classroom. And it's your responsibility to be aware of 205 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,560 the energy that you bring to that room and the energy your 206 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:30,840 students are bringing to that room, and then facilitate that 207 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,080 so that it's healthy for everybody. That's really what 208 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,520 it boils down to. But I didn't have a model for that when I was 209 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,920 starting out. Well, that is great. Get us good. Let's go for 210 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,920 that. My undergraduate students often ask me their number one 211 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,520 concern is how do I manage a group of students? So the age is 212 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,200 yours, Anna. What would you say to my pre service undergraduate 213 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,400 students? 214 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,640 Don't worry about like this idea that you have to control them, 215 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000 you know, get that out of your head. That's not what it's 216 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:07,000 about. A lot of them, you know, the issue with, because the 217 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,080 students can be, you know, little poops to new people coming 218 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,440 in, like, I'm not going to deny that they will test 219 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,640 boundaries. So you do have to have boundaries, but you have 220 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:18,840 minimum boundaries. And 221 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,480 ding, your students need to respect themselves and others 222 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,240 and they need to treat themselves and others with 223 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,000 kindness. And that includes you as the teacher. So yeah, you 224 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,040 don't want to be afraid of them. You don't want to be up there 225 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,080 afraid, but you want to be honest with them. And you focus on 226 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,680 control that you have, which is control of your own energy. So 227 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,360 you don't want to be giving off anxious energy, right? You want 228 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,440 to be giving off confident energy. And if you're if you do 229 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,520 that, if you're in control of your own energy and your own 230 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,120 self, so take a breath when you need it. You're going to be fine. 231 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,640 You don't need to worry about controlling them. You want to get 232 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,440 to know them when you get to know them, and you have that sort 233 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,920 of relational piece going on, it's going to be fine. 234 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,640 Oh, this is good stuff. 235 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,880 Also greet them at the door and learn their names quickly. 236 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,120 That's the best advice I can give. And then there's a term for 237 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,960 it pre corrective statements, which I don't love. But once you 238 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,160 get to know me, you know, the ones that are going to struggle a 239 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,920 little bit to transition into your classroom, you can like the 240 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,280 kid that never has a pencil or never has there anything with 241 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,360 them, remind them as they're coming in, you greet them by 242 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,280 name, cheerfully with a smile on your face because smiling is 243 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,920 reciprocal, they'll smile back, and remind them where the pencil 244 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,480 is that they can get, you know, that kind of thing. And then 245 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,760 that kind of sets the stage for the fact that it's your 246 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,880 classroom, you know, and that you have expectations for them 247 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,040 when they enter your classroom. But it's also their 248 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,080 classroom too. So yeah, 249 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,280 I love the smile idea. Oh, yeah, your nervous smile. 250 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,240 Well, it's reciprocal, you know, so when you smile and it's hard 251 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,440 for people to try to, you know, be out for out for you when 252 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,200 they're smiling at you, you know. So yeah, because you are going 253 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,120 to have challenging students. And again, I don't like to even 254 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,000 think of them as challenging students, but fragile, they're 255 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,560 fragile. Okay, whatever reason they're coming to your 256 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,480 classroom as a fragile learner. And you kind of try to figure out 257 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,320 why that is. 258 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,160 And I want to kind of transition to science of reading, but this 259 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,400 idea that you just need to get tough on students, 260 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:31,440 that never ever works. Only in the movies does that work? 261 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,600 I don't know. I really, it's hard. And then it's hard too. And 262 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,600 I think it's just this self perpetuating thing that happens. 263 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,280 Because you have, you know, you have new teachers, they need to 264 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,920 be observed, you know, by administrators, you know, three 265 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,880 times until they are, you know, on continuing contract three 266 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,680 times a year. And one of the things that administrators look 267 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,720 for is is or or the belief is not all administrators are 268 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,680 looking for this. But the belief is, and honestly, some do, 269 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,800 that every child in your classroom is quiet and paying 270 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,800 attention. Yeah, you know, and that how they pay attention 271 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,480 looks the same as what's expected, you know, that there's 272 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,520 this sort of dominant culture view of how of what paying 273 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,200 attention looks like in its eyes front. And do you know what I 274 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,880 mean, and sitting calmly and not fidgeting and you know, all 275 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,760 these other things, that's just nonsense. And so there's this 276 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,320 belief that if I am going to be seen as a good teacher, that 277 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,120 means all of my kids are quiet. And all of my kids are 278 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,000 facing forward and all of my kids are listening to everything I 279 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,360 say and following every direction and give them. And 280 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,400 it's just not realistic, because if you go into an adult 281 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,080 professional development session, the adults in the room are 282 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,680 not all quiet and you know, facing forward and following 283 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,320 every direction they're given. So why do we expect kids to do 284 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,840 that? Some of us are even looking at their cell phones, 285 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,600 imagine that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I have yet to see, you 286 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,200 know, even our administrators come to meetings without their 287 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,280 cell phones out and I know that they have to respond to 288 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,840 emergencies. But you have to understand the students think 289 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,480 they're responding to emergencies too. You know, it's 290 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,520 just kind of the nature of the beast, you know, and yeah. So I 291 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,040 don't know, you know, I honestly, I don't know where it 292 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,360 comes from, but it is I think a self perpetuating thing that 293 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:24,280 control this is what control looks like. And this is what a 294 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,840 good classroom looks like. It's based on I think isms and it's 295 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,280 based on this white Eurocentric idea that control and 296 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,720 subservience. And I'm going to learn you. It's not something 297 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,040 students do. It's something you do to students. And that is just 298 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,440 so against how children learn. Yeah. And you don't want chaos 299 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,960 either. I have seen, you know, classrooms that are just free 300 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,640 for all and that's not safe for anybody either. You know, it's 301 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,640 not. Yeah, I have expectations. I have expectations. I have 302 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,680 expectations like high expectations for every single 303 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,680 student in my classroom. So it's not that but I they're going to 304 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,760 the high expectations require active learning, you know, and 305 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,160 active learning is not quiet. So classrooms that I love going 306 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,520 in and spending time in our classrooms where students are 307 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,400 talking with each other. Yeah, that's the interesting stuff, 308 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,680 where the teacher creates the structure where they can stand 309 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,560 back and observe and interact. Those are the fun classrooms. 310 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,000 Yeah. And they learn more because you learn more. Yeah, 311 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,440 because your focus you can't focus silently focus even the 312 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:42,320 most, you know, highly adapted, brilliant student is not going 313 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,840 to focus on a lecture for 60 minutes. It's just impossible. So 314 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,280 they're not taking in there. They're phasing out and phasing 315 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,880 in and phasing out and phasing in and you're just not noticing 316 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,640 it, you know, Eric Jensen, the brain research guy said, you 317 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,720 know, young students can focus for about two to five minutes 318 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,720 for about 12 to 15 minutes at most. Yep. So that doesn't mean 319 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,400 our lessons need to be that long. It just means we need to say 320 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,040 a little bit and have them interact to somehow. Yeah, and 321 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,360 I would tell you know, and I was always honest with my students 322 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,560 about that, like this is, you know, the most that I can expect 323 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,320 you to focus is probably about 10 minutes on me talking and get 324 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,280 anything out of it. But sometimes I talk too much. Yeah, 325 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,840 that's reality because I'm the one up here and I like to talk. 326 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,440 And I love to talk about books, right, and writing and 327 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,520 communication. So I tell them keep an eye on the clock and 328 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,360 tell me when I've hit 10 minutes and then I'm done. And they 329 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,920 were really good about that, you know, and then it was a 330 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,160 concrete thing they knew, right, that she's going to talk and 331 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,120 this is important because we're going to have to do something 332 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,200 with this later. But they have control over how long I'm going 333 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,520 to talk up there to, you know, and it's sort of an agreement 334 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,280 now that we have between us, they got to focus for 10 minutes, 335 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,560 but then after 10 minutes, we're going to do something else 336 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,360 with it. So that works. 337 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,520 Tell me about the science of reading stuff. What is your 338 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,200 what's happened there? 339 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:10,560 Well, I'm still learning about it, as you know. It seems to me 340 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,920 really reductive. And it disregarding a lot of things 341 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,160 that we know about our brains and how we learn and process and 342 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,160 information. And I think it disregards a lot of neuro 343 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,240 divergence, right? It's looking at this is the way a neuro 344 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:33,760 typical brain operates. Yeah, so I just think it's missing a lot 345 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,440 of pieces that would actually help our students. But as I said, 346 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,840 I'm still learning about the science of reading. I definitely, 347 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,040 you know, my experience is largely although I'm K12 right 348 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,720 now, my experience is largely with, you know, upper 349 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,640 adolescence. And when I have a 15 year old that's reading at a, 350 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,240 let's say third grade level, although I hate putting labels 351 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,440 on it, because it's only a third grade level, because we've 352 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 decided it's a third grade level. But let's say I have a 15 353 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,400 year old that's like, that student needs more than what 354 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,080 the science of reading would have to offer me, you know, and 355 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,080 then I have students that can decode words at the appropriate 356 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,480 grade level. But they don't have the stamina to read the amount 357 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,320 of text that we would expect them to read by the time they're 358 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,440 done with high school. And they don't maybe have the ability to 359 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,640 focus or their working memory is such that they're not able to 360 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,480 hang on to the information long enough to do anything with it. 361 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,520 The science of reading does also not help me teach that 362 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:41,640 student, you know, ways to reach their goals in life. So that's 363 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,880 my concern with it. Other than sounding outward instruction, 364 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,080 what exactly is the science of reading? What do they promote? 365 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,400 Where they try? What do they want more of and less of? 366 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,160 Well, I think that's what they want more of is 367 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,560 instruction. Yep, sounding out words. I think they want more of 368 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:07,240 districts purchasing the curriculum from them, you know, 369 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,480 and purchasing professional development from them. Yeah, 370 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,440 that's what I don't know exactly what the end goal is, but 371 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,880 that's what it feels like to me. There's a lot of, oh, different. 372 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,120 I don't know what the bandwagon, that's not the word I'm 373 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,000 looking for, but different trends. All of a sudden, every 374 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,800 teacher in your district needs this amazing professional 375 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,360 development. And all of your concerns as a superintendent 376 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,400 or a principal or whatever will be elated because your teachers 377 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,400 will all of a sudden become master teachers after this, you 378 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,080 know, 100 hours of professional development or whatever it is. 379 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,800 And this feels like another one of those. But maybe there's more 380 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,720 to it. I don't know. 381 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,280 You know, going way back with Madeline Hunter and major and 382 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,800 some of these guys wanted to scientificize teaching, you know, 383 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:04,960 you prove it. If you just follow the algorithm, learning is, is 384 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,000 guaranteed. And in the end, it was back to the basics. And then 385 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,280 it was no child left behind with the reading first initiative. 386 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,640 And that was a billion dollar boondog. Well, this this read act 387 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,080 and science of reading, this is another wave of that. Let's 388 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:27,240 learn teachers and follow a teaching recipe. Sorry, not about 389 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:27,480 me. 390 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,520 Well, that assumes again, that that all of the, you know, the 391 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,040 algorithm is a math equation, and you're plugging in different 392 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,280 sets of numbers all the time. So I talked about having 38 393 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,200 students in my classroom, that's 38 different numbers, it's not 394 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,600 the same number. Right? So you're not gonna, you know, if if 395 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,680 the curriculum is two, and every kid is a different number, 396 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,640 you're not going to get four all the time at the other end of it, 397 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,520 you know, I mean, that's just an impossibility. And it's, it's 398 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,080 illogical to think that that's the way that's going to work. Every 399 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,760 single student has a unique set of needs, challenges and gifts, 400 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:12,200 you know. And so that's kind of silly. I think to think that 401 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,720 that's the way it's going to work. And it's, it's not to say 402 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,560 that sounding out words is not 100%. That's important, a student 403 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,840 has to be able to decode words. But they also need the schema to 404 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,560 understand the words to not addressing that they need the 405 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,880 vocabulary and the context and and that kind of thing. So 406 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,560 and if you know, if that worked, if sounding out words was the 407 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,680 answer, my class would be sounding out words 101. Yeah. And 408 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,840 my next book would be sounding out words. That's what I call it. 409 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:46,800 How to get words. Yeah, more complex than that. Oh, it is. I 410 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,720 teach a while I taught a technical writing class. I've 411 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,960 taught it at the college level, because I was a grant writer 412 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,120 for quite a while. So I've taught at the college level. And I've 413 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,560 taught it at the high school level with seniors, you know, and 414 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,240 so some of the things we would do like the plain language, that 415 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,400 government plain language requirement that they don't 416 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,240 seem to follow themselves, right. And so sometimes for fun, we 417 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,720 would rewrite like a, oh, like Facebook's privacy policy or 418 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,840 Google's privacy policy, like what if we rewrote this in 419 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,880 plain language. And the fact is that, you know, I can sound out 420 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,080 every word in Google's privacy policy, most of my students can 421 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,720 sound out every word in Google's privacy policy, it does not 422 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,480 mean that any of us understands it, right. And so if it was just 423 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,680 sounding out words, then we would be able to I would be able to 424 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,160 read every legal brief, the medical journal, scientific 425 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,040 journals, and I would be able to understand the articles that are 426 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,000 in there. And that's just not the case, because I don't have the 427 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,680 background knowledge that's required. You know, so it ignores 428 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,400 all of that. 429 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,480 Well, what would you like parents to know about teaching and or 430 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:00,400 about teaching reading? 431 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,440 Well, I guess one thing I think about what do I want my parents 432 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,960 to know, or families in general, because a lot of my students 433 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,080 aren't necessarily living with their their parents or even 434 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,360 legal guardians sometimes. But I want them to know that teachers 435 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,440 have the best interests of their students at heart. Nobody gets 436 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,480 into teaching thinking, Well, I'm going to brainwash all these 437 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,600 children, or I'm going to destroy these children's lives, I 438 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,760 want to ruin them, or you know, that is not what it is. And so 439 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,920 what we have, we have teachers, you know, with great 440 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,480 intentions, and we have families with great intentions, and we 441 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,160 have communities with great intentions, but we all seem to 442 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,160 be speaking at cross purposes sometimes. And so I guess what I 443 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,120 would want parents to know is that teaching is difficult. And 444 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,840 we have a lot of demands on our time, but we have the best 445 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,160 intentions for their their student. And that if we could 446 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,160 all come to a conversation with that understanding and assume 447 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,000 good intentions that I think will make a lot more progress. And 448 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,840 as far as teaching reading, I think that for parents, what I 449 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,960 want, if they're concerned, so I'll start at the high school 450 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,400 level, if they're concerned about what their student is 451 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,320 reading, they should have conversations with their student 452 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,600 about that, maybe read the same things that their student is 453 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,200 reading and to also understand that whatever their student 454 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,880 might be reading, they were exposed to a lot more online and 455 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,560 to just kind of pay attention to that kind of thing and to just 456 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,680 get involved with what they're reading, what they're 457 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,720 interested in. And to understand their student needs 458 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,640 mirrors and windows, so to understand other people as well 459 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,880 and other perspectives is important to being to growing up 460 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,840 to be a good human being, because we're raising adults, we're 461 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,480 not raising children. And so that's we kind of need to just 462 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,920 pay attention to that. And then for younger students that are 463 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,160 just learning how to read, I think, as a parent, you just 464 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,960 need to make reading fun for your student. So sitting down and 465 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,240 doing the sounding out words or forcing them to do something 466 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,120 that's painful and aggravating for everyone is not is not 467 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,960 necessarily the best for the family. So just have fun reading 468 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,040 with your learning with your emerging reader, I guess. Does 469 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,720 that make sense? Does. Ears and windows, you are a gold mine. 470 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,240 Let me tell you. Yeah, well, I've been at this for a little 471 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,320 while. So, what do you want to say to state legislatures? 472 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:46,040 State legislators. Come to my classroom, go to any classroom. 473 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,760 Talk to teachers, talk to students, spend a day either, 474 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,960 you know, job shadowing a teacher or just following a 475 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,040 student around. Spend a couple days at an elementary school, 476 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,040 middle school and a high school and then different 477 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,960 neighborhoods too, you know, not all in the same sort of 478 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,480 socioeconomic because our schools are segregated, whether we 479 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,000 say they are not they are. So spend some time in some 480 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,880 different neighborhood schools and see what's really 481 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,240 happening and what the actual intentions are. I would also 482 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,560 state state legislators this job is hard enough without you 483 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,080 using us to prove a political point or to gain political 484 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,080 points or to raise money for your political campaign. So it'd 485 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,400 be nice if they didn't do that. That would be lovely. Please 486 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,200 stop doing that. Yes. What do you want to say to 487 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,120 administrators? Oh, that's a tough one. Administrators have a 488 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,800 very, very difficult job. I've worked with some really great 489 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,200 administrators. I've worked with some not so great 490 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,280 administrators, but they've all had a very difficult job. So I 491 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,160 think I would say to them the same thing that I would say to 492 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,760 parents just assume good intentions. So if you hear 493 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,320 something about me as a teacher, assume good intentions 494 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,160 until you learn otherwise. Assume when you come into my 495 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,160 classroom that I know what I'm doing. You know, and ask me if 496 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,840 you're I had an administrator once come in to do and after 497 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,280 I'd been teaching and it was his first he was our new building 498 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,760 principal. It's not his first administrative job, but he was 499 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,880 it was the first time as a principal in our building and 500 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,840 he during his observation of me took pictures of my students 501 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,080 and he's like, well, this one was coloring with smelly markers 502 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,760 the whole time you were talking. I'm like, yeah, you know, 503 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,520 she has some sensory needs that help her focus, right? And he's 504 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,440 like, well, none of the other kids seem bothered by it. I'm 505 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,920 like, no, because it's that's the routine, right? So just assume 506 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,320 that I know what I'm doing. Assume that your teachers know 507 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,760 what they're doing and then ask them what support they need. 508 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,640 Don't you know, don't assume that you know what support they 509 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,160 need because the teacher next door to them has a need doesn't 510 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,000 mean that everybody has that need. Does that make sense? 511 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,280 Assume good intention. There's another gold mine of quotes 512 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,360 here. Okay, the last thing, what would you like to say to 513 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,000 Emily Hanford? 514 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:15,680 Yeah, we're not, I don't know. So I will admit, you know, I'm 515 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,640 I'm kind of doing what I don't want community members to do, 516 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,760 which is assume the contents of a book when they haven't read it. 517 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,520 And I have not listened to her whole thing. So I don't know 518 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,360 that I should really speak to that so much. But my 519 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,800 understanding is she assumes that we were all brainwashed into 520 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080 doing like just whole language and we never did phonics and is 521 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,760 that about right? 522 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,760 I'm not going to say one word the other, but what a lot of 523 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,280 people think brainwashed. 524 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,720 Liberal professors like me have this agenda to make the world 525 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,600 a social social to to do socialism. That's our 526 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,280 agenda. And to somehow ruin America by teaching whole 527 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:06,880 language or something. I have no idea. So I, you know, I 528 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,360 haven't listened to it. I heard a synopsis of it on public 529 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,320 radio and kind of rolled my eyes, you know, I think that what I 530 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,440 would tell her is that again, same thing as I would tell 531 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,480 legislators, meet a lot of different teachers, do some 532 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,520 job shadowing, go to different neighborhoods. I think that 533 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,240 she needs to understand we are all doing the best we can with 534 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,560 the information that we have and when we have better 535 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,560 information, we do different and we do better. And brain 536 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,880 research is constantly evolving. And don't assume that we 537 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,560 won our brainwash because we're not idiots. And don't assume 538 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,960 too that we can or would brainwash the children in our 539 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,880 classroom. If I could do that, all of my students would have 540 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,600 A's and they would all bring their materials to class and 541 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,640 turn everything in on time. But you know, that doesn't 542 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,160 happen because we're all individuals with agency. 543 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,440 Well, I want to go ahead. I want to end with what I would 544 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200 say to Emily Hanford. It is this, people within the 545 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,680 literacy community think you are a joke. And what you are 546 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,960 doing to our children, we're going to feel the impact 547 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,920 five years from now. You're making a career for yourself, 548 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,920 Emily, wonderful for you. You're famous. You're making 549 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,200 lots of money. That is wonderful. Are you going to be 550 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,000 there in five years when these kids still don't know what to 551 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,840 do, still don't know what to read? Emily Hanford, you are a 552 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,840 joke. Sorry about that. I had to get that in. No, that's 553 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,840 okay. I just like I said, I always if because I have had 554 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,280 reading materials that I have given children challenged, 555 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,560 you know, and I always, I read it before you challenge it 556 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,640 and I have not listened to her whole thing, just synopsis 557 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,560 of it. And so I don't, you know, I don't know exactly what 558 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,280 she's saying, except this is my assumption of what she's 559 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:07,600 saying. And yeah, if you don't know, then don't speak on it. 560 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,160 You know what I mean? So and I don't feel she knows because 561 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,320 what she was saying is not what I've been doing in my 562 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,600 classroom. And it's not what anyone I know has been doing 563 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,880 in their classroom. She's not a literacy, she's a radio 564 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,160 journalist, never taught a class. I doubt she's even read a 565 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:28,000 research article, let alone talk to a wide variety of 566 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,200 literacy experts. She talks to who will support her 567 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,320 preconceived ideas. Yeah, but anyway, a lot. No, I'm just 568 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,840 people assume a lot about what happens in classrooms. Yes. 569 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:45,040 And for a year, an entire school year, people had a front row 570 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,120 seat to what I was doing in my classroom, right? And did not 571 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,840 have any complaints or I do you know what I mean? I did not 572 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,800 have families freaking out or you know, so I think people 573 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,200 just need to spend time in classrooms with teachers, not 574 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,800 just assuming that they know what's going on in classrooms. 575 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,200 So the Redacted Minnesota $100 million boom doggle. In five 576 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,560 years, I'm gonna say I told you so. So all our reading 577 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,000 problems should be solved now. Science of reading people here 578 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,280 in Minnesota, you've got the dyslexia stuff jammed down our 579 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,960 throats and you've got science of reading. So we expect now 580 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,560 that all reading problems will be solved. But in five years 581 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,400 when they're not, who are you gonna blame them? What shiny 582 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,960 new product should we buy them? I'm sorry, this is about you. 583 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,600 Well, they'll blame teachers. I were a betting person, that's 584 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,720 what I would bet the blame teachers. We gave you all this 585 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,440 money. You didn't do what we told you to do. We trained you, 586 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,800 but you didn't take that training to the classroom. You 587 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,480 know, that that's what I that was what I would put money on. 588 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,080 Yes, and you're the reason why the economy goes down and why 589 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,080 yes, why yeah. All right, Anna, this has been incredible. 590 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,800 You have so much to give. I hope you spend another 30 years 591 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,960 of classroom. Yeah, I do intend to go back like this. This 592 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,800 job I have now, although I do really, really enjoy supporting 593 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,000 teachers like 100%. I love it and I still get to go in 594 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,760 classrooms. But at some point I do see myself back just 595 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,480 solely teaching in a high school English classroom because it's 596 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,720 just too much fun. What brings me joy is a college instructor 597 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,240 to my graduate classes. When I see students online and I 598 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:35,200 interact with Flipgrid to see the joy in their eyes, they're 599 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,520 still inspired to go. They love their jobs. That just keeps 600 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,360 me going. So thank you for that, Anna and my other grad 601 00:36:43,360 --> 00:37:06,320 students as well. All right, thank you.